The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 01:55:10 PM

Title: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 01:55:10 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/mass-shooting-reported-at-texas-sutherland-springs-church.html

You know the drill. 

It's too soon to talk about gun control.

Let's blame it on violent video games.

inb4 D1 claims it's a false flag.

Thoughts and prayers from all of our politicians.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 05, 2017, 02:06:09 PM
I like how the people commenting on the article are already assuming the political inclination of the perpetrator based on nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 05, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
I'm glad they got the shooter. I've been trying to find new information, but I guess it's just not out there yet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 02:36:44 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 05, 2017, 02:45:32 PM
Shit, the internet is already pointing the finger at the wrong person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 03:25:23 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 05, 2017, 03:53:47 PM
inb4 D1 claims it's a false flag.
Maybe this is the anonymous action that d1 was telling us to expect.  :-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 04:46:31 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

My complaint is that conservative politicians often use the excuse of "it's insensitive to the victims to talk about this" as a tactic to deflect from even having the conversation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 07:57:01 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

My complaint is that conservative politicians often use the excuse of "it's insensitive to the victims to talk about this" as a tactic to deflect from even having the conversation.

There's no need for us to deflect. The facts are on our side. We just think standing on the yet to be cold bodies  to promote your (not you specifically but in the general sense) political agenda is a bit insensitive.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 05, 2017, 08:21:06 PM
It would be right to say it is insensitive to talk about gun control soon after the events. Also policy should never be driven by people who are emotional charged. Instead it should be by cool level headed people who can look at everything objectively

I guess the issue is, we know they will NEVER look into it with any seriousness. I guess people aren't calling out for gun control just because of this event. They are calling for it still since the 'Sandy Hook massacre' and even prior.

But these mass shootings are pretty small scale

Today, 100odd people will die by a gun in the US (self inflicted or not). Yesterday was no different and tomorrow will be the same story. That's 100 different families grieving every day for someone's loss before their time. Nothing enlightened about that
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 08:44:00 PM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 08:48:50 PM
Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Edit. Ignore the obvious shill in the first reply.
(https://s1.postimg.org/41bsa3c64v/1509672080329.png)
There is no debate. I believe he was actually stopped by a citizen returning fire.

Don't mess with Texas.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 08:57:33 PM
Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Edit. Ignore the obvious shill in the first reply.
(https://s1.postimg.org/41bsa3c64v/1509672080329.png)
There is no debate. I believe he was actually stopped by a citizen returning fire.

Don't mess with Texas.

I see that my country has over twenty times the amount of fire arms related homicides than yours does. If it were up to you would you like to see the same level of access to guns in your country as I have in mine?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 09:02:48 PM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 09:16:11 PM

Freedom > Security.


Very true. But it isn't absolute. You wouldn't want a citizen to have his own icbm program and you wouldn't want to declare butter knives illegal. So where is it reasonable to draw the line?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
I think the post from nipponanon above sums it up nicely. Pardon the profanity.
(https://s1.postimg.org/6sarl0av7z/20171106_132235.png)

Citizens don't need their own icbms, no.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 06, 2017, 03:07:43 AM
Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 04:45:21 AM
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1820163660
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 06, 2017, 04:55:23 AM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.
You are never truly "free". Not in any society that has ever functioned. In every society compromises have to be made to keep its people safe and to aid progress. Frankly the US situation is silly. It's pretty obvious that very few people would give a shit were it not for the gun companies that would lose their greatest market.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 06, 2017, 05:00:19 AM
So,  where are the claims of false flag?   Breathless claims of Soros planning to be selling metal detectors to churches? 

Forget the victims,  it's time to push some stupid right wing looney political agenda.  FFS.

Americans have lost the plot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 05:03:42 AM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.
You are never truly "free". Not in any society that has ever functioned. In every society compromises have to be made to keep its people safe and to aid progress. Frankly the US situation is silly. It's pretty obvious that very few people would give a shit were it not for the gun companies that would lose their greatest market.
I agree.
Also, the 'muricans are not free in the sense of them getting hardcore propaganda and influence from the gun companies, so most of the 'muricans are not willing to accept stricter gun control, although most of them would only profit from it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: deadsirius on November 06, 2017, 05:34:29 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.


Which countries are you talking about?

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.  All our Constitution does is recognize this right and explicitly prohibit its infringement.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 06, 2017, 06:01:57 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.


Which countries are you talking about?

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.  All our Constitution does is recognize this right and explicitly prohibit its infringement.
Gun ownership is not a fundamental human right.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 06, 2017, 06:05:28 AM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 06, 2017, 06:38:42 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.


Which countries are you talking about?
Australia and the UK.  In fact pick any country other than the USA.

Quote
We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.
Presumably the "we" you are referring to is the USA?  You might not have noticed, but people from other countries also post on the interwebs, and they might have different ideas to you about what rights people possess.

Either way, human rights are just rights that groups of humans have agreed amongst themselves and then enshrined in law.  Nobody is born with the right to posses a particular weapon.

Do you think you are born with the right to posses (and use) a Abrams tank, a cruise missile system or a thermonuclear weapon?  If you don't (and you'd be a lunatic if you did) then we both agree that a civilisation should restrict which weapons it's citizenry should use, we just disagree on which weapons.  Nothing to do with fundamental rights.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 06, 2017, 08:19:57 AM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 09:41:33 AM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 06, 2017, 09:46:06 AM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 06, 2017, 11:01:10 AM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.
Replace cnn with MSM and Facebook and you probably are close. Something to the effect of "there is so much Christian bashing on aethiest, MSM, and Facebook sites that it led him to this." That's obviously wring as it was an inside job in order to sow discord in peoples' faith organizations and make them question whether they should attend church or not.  Or it was an inside job to drum up evangelical support by uniting Christians behind the boogeyman of atheism.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 12:25:37 PM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.

Trump is only saying that the guy was a deranged person and the whole thing does not have anything to do with gun control.
on the other hand he was last time very quick of yelling to close the border for Islamic person and emigrants.
why does he not yell to imprison all mentally instable persons.

I think there should be a stricter gun control of who is allowed to get a weapon.
it would even be good to implement a constant control if a person is still able to be allowed to have a gun.
like a checkup every 2 years if a person is still physical and mental able to handle a weapon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2017, 12:31:20 PM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.
You don't have very many people that you really care about, do you?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 12:37:11 PM

Trump is only saying that the guy was a deranged person and the whole thing does not have anything to do with gun control.
on the other hand he was last time very quick of yelling to close the border for Islamic person and emigrants.
why does he not yell to imprison all mentally instable persons.

I think there should be a stricter gun control of who is allowed to get a weapon.
it would even be good to implement a constant control if a person is still able to be allowed to have a gun.
like a checkup every 2 years if a person is still physical and mental able to handle a weapon.

No, no, they need the facts first!

https://www.theonion.com/nation-to-wait-for-more-facts-on-texas-shooting-before-1820186609
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2017, 12:42:35 PM
If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

He wasn't.
Quote
Following his prison sentence, Kelley was reduced in rank and released from the military with a bad conduct discharge in 2014.

A BCD doesn't necessarily have all of the same penalties as a dishonorable discharge.
https://military-law.lawyers.com/veterans-benefits/discharges-and-their-effect-on-veteran-benefits.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 06, 2017, 12:42:59 PM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.
What about the freedom of living? Should the freedom of owning a gun be prioritised over the freedom of living?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 06, 2017, 12:47:11 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 06, 2017, 12:58:46 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

The point I was trying to make was that domestic violence is a very good predictor of someone whose likely to kill people.  A number of states actually have laws preventing people from getting firearms that have convictions of domestic violence.  Texas is among them.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

I don't have the article handy but I read that when this guy got his guns there was a form that asked him if he was legally allowed to own a firearm.  He checked 'yes'.  Awesome system we have there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 01:25:54 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.

I would feel more safe if I have a gun and there is a good gun control and I know that other person with guns are also gone thru the good gun control and can be trusted with a gun and they know how to handle it.

with an intruder you never know if that person has a gun or not, does anybody really think that a person that breaks in into private homes to steal stuff with the change that people are in it, care about gun law. they can have guns even if they are total illegal. that would not stop them for having a gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 06, 2017, 01:39:12 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.

I would feel more safe if I have a gun and there is a good gun control and I know that other person with guns are also gone thru the good gun control and can be trusted with a gun and they know how to handle it.

That a pretty massive IF even for a fantasy land.

Also, I might be fine today and able to pass any check with flying colours. Tomorrow my life could turn upside down, lose everything, spiral into a deep depression and drink/drug away all my problems. No one is going to say I have to return those guns even if I would massively fail the checks with my new situation

The best a background checks does is basically say, this person at some point in their life passed a background check. There is no requirement after that to conduct yourself in a manner that would continue to see you pass background checks.

Also, with guns so prevalent, who is to say someone who didn't pass the check just didn't go out and steal one?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 01:43:16 PM
Guns don't kill people.
People kill people.
Ban people, problem fixed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 06, 2017, 01:58:13 PM
I have no interest in going one on one with an intruder in the middle of the night.
I assume she didn't enter my home because she was concerned about my safety.

I would not shoot at a shadow, but, anything less than her running out the door is going to be very bad for her.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 01:58:59 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.

I would feel more safe if I have a gun and there is a good gun control and I know that other person with guns are also gone thru the good gun control and can be trusted with a gun and they know how to handle it.

That a pretty massive IF even for a fantasy land.

Also, I might be fine today and able to pass any check with flying colours. Tomorrow my life could turn upside down, lose everything, spiral into a deep depression and drink/drug away all my problems. No one is going to say I have to return those guns even if I would massively fail the checks with my new situation

The best a background checks does is basically say, this person at some point in their life passed a background check. There is no requirement after that to conduct yourself in a manner that would continue to see you pass background checks.

Also, with guns so prevalent, who is to say someone who didn't pass the check just didn't go out and steal one?

therefore the repeated check if someone is able to have a gun.

easier to control than a total ban of guns.
what about hunter or security personal or sports?
if you want to ban fire arms what about bow and cross bow?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 06, 2017, 02:13:17 PM
if you want to ban fire arms what about bow and cross bow?
Seriously?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 06, 2017, 02:19:36 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 06, 2017, 02:34:25 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

How about second story windows?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 06, 2017, 07:16:03 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

The point I was trying to make was that domestic violence is a very good predictor of someone whose likely to kill people.  A number of states actually have laws preventing people from getting firearms that have convictions of domestic violence.  Texas is among them.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

I don't have the article handy but I read that when this guy got his guns there was a form that asked him if he was legally allowed to own a firearm.  He checked 'yes'.  Awesome system we have there.

Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 06, 2017, 07:18:42 PM
You are never free.

Thanks for your opinion, I disagree.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 06, 2017, 07:20:16 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2017, 07:26:37 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 06, 2017, 08:10:43 PM
A fire arm is an effective uni-tasker.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 07, 2017, 04:03:09 AM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?

what about guns for hunter or sport.

as I said, I think the better thing to do would be to have a stricter gun control not a gun ban.
a gun ban would not help anything,
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 07, 2017, 04:33:55 AM
All this nonsense about gun control is idiotic.   Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA,  the problem isn't guns,  it's the American Psyche, it seems that it isn't mature enough to handle guns. 

How many people who own guns, think they are some kind of vigilante rambo?   Enough to be a problem it seems.

America has lost the plot.   Too many internet conspiracy nutters and lack of self control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 04:44:08 AM
All this nonsense about gun control is idiotic.   Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA,  the problem isn't guns,  it's the American Psyche, it seems that it isn't mature enough to handle guns. 
That's actually bullshit pro gun propaganda, at least for switzerland I'm rather sure that most of the people there do have guns only, without ammunition. Pretty sure it's the same for finland.

How many people who own guns, think they are some kind of vigilante rambo?   Enough to be a problem it seems.

America has lost the plot.   Too many internet conspiracy nutters and lack of self control.
'muricans are not among the smartest, it is known.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 04:55:28 AM
the problem isn't guns,  it's the American Psyche, it seems that it isn't mature enough to handle guns. 

 ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
You are never free.

Thanks for your opinion, I disagree.

Ok. Give me one example of a society where you THINK are truly free and I will tell you why you aren't. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 04:58:36 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 05:02:30 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
Uhmm, sauce?

This is what I found: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf)

Your statement seems to be completely false. And other surveys show roughly the same trend.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 05:16:36 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
Uhmm, sauce?

This is what I found: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf)

Your statement seems to be completely false. And other surveys show roughly the same trend.
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 05:25:36 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
Uhmm, sauce?

This is what I found: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf)

Your statement seems to be completely false. And other surveys show roughly the same trend.
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.

Huh?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 06:41:55 AM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?

what about guns for hunter or sport.
Where I live, most hunting is done with shotguns, bows and muzzle loaders.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 07:01:13 AM
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.
Huh? We are talking about civilian ownership of weapons, right? How is a survey, studying the civilian ownership of weapons, not saying anything about civilian ownership of weapons?

Edit: And I don't know what you mean by "citizens have military firearms at home.". Either you're implying that most people in these countries are in illegal possession of arms, or you're forgetting that each country has different views on which weapons are to be available to civilians or not.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 07, 2017, 07:06:44 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
This isn't even remotely true.  Finland and Switzerland don't even top the guns per head for Europe and the rate is 4 times less than the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 07:14:29 AM
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.
Huh? We are talking about civilian ownership of weapons, right? How is a survey, studying the civilian ownership of weapons, not saying anything about civilian ownership of weapons?
Initial statement was
"Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA"
The study only took into account civilian fire arms.
I mentioned that the statistic is useless, because in switzerland (and I think finland, too) people are required to go into military and then keep their weapon at home, meaning that the amount of weapons per household in switzerland(/finland) is way higher than what your survey states.


Edit: And I don't know what you mean by "citizens have military firearms at home.". Either you're implying that most people in these countries are in illegal possession of arms, or you're forgetting that each country has different views on which weapons are to be available to civilians or not.
If you get a gun in the military, get to take it home, then you legally have a military gun at home. Your survey doesn't count those guns so it's not representative about how many guns there are per citizen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 07:29:21 AM
Initial statement was
"Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA"
The study only took into account civilian fire arms.
I mentioned that the statistic is useless, because in switzerland (and I think finland, too) people are required to go into military and then keep their weapon at home, meaning that the amount of weapons per household in switzerland(/finland) is way higher than what your survey states.
Civilian ownership doesn't mean that it was bought in a store necessarily. They mean ANY gun that is in civilian possession. So no, the survey IS representative of the amount of guns owned by civilians.


If you get a gun in the military, get to take it home, then you legally have a military gun at home. Your survey doesn't count those guns so it's not representative about how many guns there are per citizen.
If you're allowed to bring it home it's not military, it's civilian. You're misunderstanding the meaning of civilian guns in the context. The survey is speaking about civilian ownership of weapons, not commercial weapons targeted towards and sold to civilians. If a civilian is trained and then handed a gun by the military, that they then bring home, they will be a civilian in possession of a gun, and that gun will be counted as a civilian firearm by the survey.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 07:51:01 AM
Quote from: Master_Evar
If you're allowed to bring it home it's not military, it's civilian. You're misunderstanding the meaning of civilian guns in the context. The survey is speaking about civilian ownership of weapons, not commercial weapons targeted towards and sold to civilians. If a civilian is trained and then handed a gun by the military, that they then bring home, they will be a civilian in possession of a gun, and that gun will be counted as a civilian firearm by the survey.
Hmm, sounds reasonable, could be true.
Where can I find the definition used in the survey?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 07:52:39 AM
If you get a gun in the military, get to take it home, then you legally have a military gun at home. Your survey doesn't count those guns so it's not representative about how many guns there are per citizen.
If you're allowed to bring it home it's not military, it's civilian.
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 07:59:13 AM
Hmm, sounds reasonable, could be true.
Where can I find the definition used in the survey?
They don't really define it, but here is how they word it in the survey papers:
"Published estimates of Yemeni civilian firearm ownership (millions)"
"The 30 largest civilian firearm holdings (in descending order)"
"Estimates of German civilian firearm ownership (millions)"

Here's their take on the swiss ownership of weapons:
Quote
Box 2.5 Switzerland: public uncertainty and expert biases
Despite their cultural importance, the number of privately held Swiss firearms is extremely elusive. A recent survey found
that 26 per cent (1.95 million) of Swiss own at least one firearm (Gasser, 2006; also see Becker, 2001, p. 14). Published estimates
of total firearm ownership vary extraordinarily, ranging from 1.2 million to 12 million (see Table 2.6).
There is less room for disagreement over the nature of Swiss gun problems. This was poignantly demonstrated by the
Zug massacre of 2001, and in 2006 by the murder of former Swiss ski champion Corinne Rey-Bellet (Foulkes, 2006). Firearm
murders are only somewhat more common in Switzerland than most other European countries, but firearm suicide is significantly
more prevalent (Ajdacic-Gross et al., 2006). Recent research concluded that greater availability of firearms has increased
suicides by roughly 25 per cent in the last 20 years. Army-issued weapons are a major element in Switzerland’s suicides.
Although 60 per cent of Swiss firearm murderers use privately acquired weapons, 68 per cent of successful suicides use armyissued
guns (Ajdacic-Gross et al., 2006). As a proxy variable for firearm accessibility, Swiss suicide data supports higher estimates
of civilian ownership (Killias, 1993; Killias, Kesteren, and Rindlisbacher, 2001).
Traditionally, Swiss army reservists store their service weapons and sealed ammunition at home. The weapons can be
kept after their service obligation ends, an option chosen by 57–75 per cent of former soldiers, after paying a fee (Papacella,
2004; Vonarburg, 2006). This process accelerated in 2004, when the army began reducing its ranks by over 300,000 reservists,
a measure expected to release several hundred thousand additional high-powered rifles and pistols (Papacella, 2004).
One major area of disagreement is the number of modern military rifles in the hands of former reservists, their heirs, and
clients. According to Peter Hug, roughly 100,000 Sturmgewehr 57 and Sturmgewehr 90 automatic and semi-automatic rifles
have been released this way (Hug, 2006). Contrasting reports suggest that many more were released in 2004–06 alone (Mutter,
2006; Papacella, 2004). Even greater uncertainty surrounds privately purchased firearms. Hug (2006) estimates this category
at some 450,000. Other estimates can be explained only by assuming that there are between one and three million privately
acquired guns.
The lowest total estimates of 1.2–1.3 million private Swiss guns (Bachmann, 2002; SwissInfo, 2005) overlook major categories.
The highest estimates of 5–12 million are hard to justify without a clear breakdown. The Small Arms Survey presents Swiss
ownership at 2.3–4.5 million firearms, or 31–60 for every 100 residents.
The broad range of Swiss firearm estimates illuminates common biases of expert estimates. The perceptions of gun policy
experts anywhere, regardless of their convictions, are vulnerable to classic problems of cognitive screening and selective
attention, leading them to see what they expect to see (Bruner, 1957; Egeth, 1967). Higher numbers typically—but not always—
come from gun owners and police; lower numbers usually are from gun control advocates. Whether they devote more time to
shooting sports or responding to gun pathologies, owners tend to see more guns than non-owners. Because of their greater
proximity to firearms, the estimates of law enforcement officials and gun advocates must be taken seriously. The perspectives
of more distant observers can be equally valuable. Without comprehensive records or careful public polling, neither
perspective is sufficient. Whenever possible, both methods must be applied together.
So it definitely seems that they are taking into account weapons issued by the military to civilians.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 08:01:41 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 08:12:17 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:33:50 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

Awesome.  Let's abolish all laws since they're apparently completely powerless to prevent anything ever. 

Anarchy FTW!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:37:57 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:41:18 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/politics/trump-extreme-vetting-guns/index.html

"Extreme vetting for guns".

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 08:42:30 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
I'd have to research it, but I think they are reserve military but they don't have to give the weapon back. Not sure tho.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 08:52:19 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

Awesome.  Let's abolish all laws since they're apparently completely powerless to prevent anything ever. 

Anarchy FTW!

You are the only one in this thread who mentioned abolishing laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:54:37 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

Awesome.  Let's abolish all laws since they're apparently completely powerless to prevent anything ever. 

Anarchy FTW!

You are the only one in this thread who mentioned abolishing laws.

I'm highlighting your hyperbole with hyperbole.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:57:34 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
I'd have to research it, but I think they are reserve military but they don't have to give the weapon back. Not sure tho.
If they are reserve military, then it's most likely that they are responsible for the weapons that were issued but don't actually own them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 09:01:27 AM
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
When they're not at work they are technically civilians. And if I'm interpreting this (and the rest of what the survey says about switzerland) right:
"Recent research concluded that greater availability of firearms has increased
suicides by roughly 25 per cent in the last 20 years. Army-issued weapons are a major element in Switzerland’s suicides.
Although 60 per cent of Swiss firearm murderers use privately acquired weapons, 68 per cent of successful suicides use armyissued
guns (Ajdacic-Gross et al., 2006). As a proxy variable for firearm accessibility, Swiss suicide data supports higher estimates
of civilian ownership (Killias, 1993; Killias, Kesteren, and Rindlisbacher, 2001)."
Then at least reservists are counted as civilians. They are saying that "the greater availability of firearms" increased suicides, and that the majority of sucessful suicides are using military issued weapons. So they are counting military-issued weapons as part of the "greater availability of firearms", which doesn't make sense if you're talking about military access to firearms (of course the military has access to weapons) but it makes more sense if you're talking about civilian access to firearms. And most military-issued weapons belong to reservists.

And if it doesn't take into account active duty personnel it doesn't really matter, these people should have decent training and regular check-up. You can't really compare that to civilians who buys guns in stores. If they did take into account these people the survey would be less useful, because then we would be comparing people that have very different amounts of experience and training in small-arms.

And anyways, IF anyone thinks that these statistics are bogus then I expect them to have some statistics (with a source) of their own.

EDIT: Or in any other way demonstrate, not just by voicing their own opinion, that the statistics are false.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 09:21:23 AM
EDIT: Or in any other way demonstrate, not just by voicing their own opinion, that the statistics are false.
You quoted it yourself
Quote
Published estimates of total firearm ownership vary extraordinarily, ranging from 1.2 million to 12 million

What an accurate survey, only a range of factor 10 (1000%).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
What an accurate survey, only a range of factor 10 (1000%).
Context, ever learned that word? They are talking about other surveys, not their own:
Quote
Table 2.6 Estimates of civilian firearms ownership in Switzerland
Estimate Source
1.2 SwissInfo (2005)
1.3 Bachmann (2002)
l.0–3.0 Pescia (2006)
2.36 Hug (2006)
2.83–4.56 ProTell (2004)
5.0 Munday (1996, p. 12)
3.0–l2.0 Hess (1995)
2.3–4.5 2007 Small Arms Survey estimate

And use a little common sense. "Published surveys". At the time of them writing this survey, their own survey couldn't had been published, otherwise they wouldn't be writing still. So it obviously has to be talking about other surveys.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
What an accurate survey, only a range of factor 10 (1000%).
Context, ever learned that word? They are talking about other surveys, not their own:
Quote
Table 2.6 Estimates of civilian firearms ownership in Switzerland
Estimate Source
1.2 SwissInfo (2005)
1.3 Bachmann (2002)
l.0–3.0 Pescia (2006)
2.36 Hug (2006)
2.83–4.56 ProTell (2004)
5.0 Munday (1996, p. 12)
3.0–l2.0 Hess (1995)
2.3–4.5 2007 Small Arms Survey estimate

And use a little common sense. "Published surveys". At the time of them writing this survey, their own survey couldn't had been published, otherwise they wouldn't be writing still. So it obviously has to be talking about other surveys.
Bro, they didn't even make their own research, they just used already published papers to estimate the gun-per-citizen rate.

Basically a meta study. But the available data sucked.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 09:35:15 AM
Bro, they didn't even make their own research, they just used already published papers to estimate the gun-per-citizen rate.

Basically a meta study. But the available data sucked.
Is that a problem? Comparing the results of multiple different studies and arriving at a new estimate should be quite accurate. Does it in any way make the estimation wrong, and do you have any sources that would contradict this survey?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 09:37:18 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 09:41:11 AM
Well I couldn't find any data that said that either Finland or Switzerland have more guns per capita than the USA anywhere, so we might just drop this argument. The most generous estimate for Switzerland I could find was 4.5 million guns, both private and military, which puts it at a bit more than 0.55 guns per capita, which is about half that of the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 10:03:24 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps we should actually try it.

Quote
The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/amp/


You can get 5 years iirc for perjury.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 10:09:50 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps we should actually try it.

Quote
The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/amp/


You can get 5 years iirc for perjury.

Ooooh, so there were only 254 false statements that they found out were false. I wonder how many false statements weren't found out. Like this case we're talking about here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 10:24:33 AM
Ooooh, so there were only 254 false statements that they found out were false.
No.  Only 254 false statements were considered for prosecution.  There were over half a million gun purchase denials (presumably for some sort of false statement).

I wonder how many false statements weren't found out. Like this case we're talking about here.
Impossible to know, but obviously too many.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 10:34:45 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps we should actually try it.

Quote
The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/amp/


You can get 5 years iirc for perjury.

Ooooh, so there were only 254 false statements that they found out were false. I wonder how many false statements weren't found out. Like this case we're talking about here.

Noooo, maybe you should read the article again.

Quote
only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution,

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 10:36:21 AM
Noooo, maybe you should read the article again.
Ain't nobody got time for that. If you have read it, just quote to important part.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 10:43:08 AM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 10:57:13 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 10:57:59 AM
Noooo, maybe you should read the article again.
Ain't nobody got time for that. If you have read it, just quote to important part.

I did. Twice
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 11:01:19 AM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 11:08:16 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 11:18:38 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.

That's way too heavy handed. But why did it not work in this case exactly?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 11:45:20 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.

That's way too heavy handed. But why did it not work in this case exactly?

That will be an interesting  investigation.
It seems that the US government didn't tell the US government something the US government is required to do by the US government.
 :)

The military didn't report him to the atf as required.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
That will be an interesting  investigation.
It seems that the US government didn't tell the US government something the US government is required to do by the US government.
 :)

Oh this is just great. Way to go.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 11:55:08 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.
It was the Air Force that screwed up by not entering his conviction into the national database like they were supposed to.  If they had, then the background check that was performed would have flagged him and he wouldn't have been able to buy the guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 11:58:20 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.
It was the Air Force that screwed up by not entering his conviction into the national database like they were supposed to.  If they had, then the background check that was performed would have flagged him and he wouldn't have been able to buy the guns.

Well after this I hope they start taking things more seriously.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 12:02:40 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 12:06:55 PM
That will be an interesting  investigation.
It seems that the US government didn't tell the US government something the US government is required to do by the US government.
 :)

Oh this is just great. Way to go.

Why me?   ;)

There may be some middle men, but basically that's the reason.

I wouldn't be surprised if more examples turn up that should have been reported by other agencies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 12:55:56 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.
Actually, it's more like the NRA membership supports common sense gun regulations and background checks.  It's the NRA leadership that's opposed to any sort of gun regulation.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/17/is-the-gun-lobby-invincible/nra-members-vs-nra-leaders
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 01:12:31 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.

Example?


One more gun seems to have been the answer in this case no?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 01:13:13 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.

Example?


One more gun seems to have been the answer in this case no?

Or one less.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 01:24:04 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?

Example where Trump seems to think more guns are the answer?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 01:30:07 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?

One that entirely bans this class of guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 01:31:30 PM
Example where Trump seems to think more guns are the answer?

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-hundreds-more-may-have-died-in-1510051281-htmlstory.html

And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?


http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

The law already exists.  They've just done a shit job at enforcing it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 04:13:30 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?

One that entirely bans this class of guns?

And make millions of law abiding citizens criminals overnight and deny them their right to bear arms.

And when some nut uses a bolt action rifle to murder kneeling ducks in a church?  Ban them too?
You don't have to answer that it's pretty clear.

Example where Trump seems to think more guns are the answer?

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-hundreds-more-may-have-died-in-1510051281-htmlstory.html

So trump being happy that there was an armed citizen across the street means he thinks more guns are the answer?
TDS rears its ugly head.

Quote
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?


http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

The law already exists.  They've just done a shit job at enforcing it.

I rest my case.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 07, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?

Actually it wasn't an assault rifle for one. Secondly, true assualt rifles were designed to sustain youself against an attack. Thirdly, the same type of rifle that was used in the shooting was used against the shooter himself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 07, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

The Air Force failed in adding the criminal conduct to his background. So it's not a matter of more gun laws but rather the lack of enfircement of current laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?
In this case, the law already exists (domestic abuse conviction).  It was just a matter of the conviction not being properly reported to the appropriate database.  Again, the conviction should have shown up in the background check and stopped the sale.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 05:07:53 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?
In this case, the law already exists (domestic abuse conviction).  It was just a matter of the conviction not being properly reported to the appropriate database.  Again, the conviction should have shown up in the background check and stopped the sale.
My point exactly.
I think DNO may have been under the impression that background checks simply rely on the questions asked.

They don't and heads should roll for the failure to have this nut in the database.
He was breaking the law for simply entering a place he knew had guns if I'm not mistaken. I don't think he was supposed to be around guns much less own one.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 06:22:47 PM
They don't and heads should roll for the failure to have this nut in the database.

Oh, they know and they're already working on it although the MSM will likely move on long before they formally announce the results.
Quote from: http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/11/06/texas-shooter-should-have-been-banned-from-buying-guns-heres-who-screwed-up/
What did the Air Force say about this?

“This was mishandled by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, where Kelley was serving when he was arrested,” Bowman reported.

“An investigation is now underway, and the Air Force is taking it very seriously, said the source.”
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:15:56 PM
Too many internet conspiracy nutters.

(https://s1.postimg.org/7ndatdler3/85gnc6.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:17:09 PM
I'd love someone to talk about the percentage of these shooters on SSRIs.

It's nearly like big pharma is run for profit and not for the health of the people.

Wait....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:18:26 PM
Such a clever boy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:26:06 PM
Do you think it's a problem? Or are you just here to derail discussion about Big Pharma and Big oil?
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.

I think we should reevaluate the treatment of mental health conditions. SSRIs should be an absolute last resort when family community exercise good food and love don't work.

Typo.
Phoneposting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:30:37 PM
Do you think it's a problem? Or are you just here to derail discussion about Big Pharma and Big oil?
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.

I think we should reevaluate the treatment of mental health conditions. SSRIs should be an absolute last resort when family community exercise good food and love don't work.

Typo.

Your second statement I agree with. Your first not so much.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
In d1's world, everything is either black or white. There are no grey areas. Because that would be confusing as fuck.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:40:42 PM
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
Citation from a credible source please.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:44:45 PM
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
Citation from one of the media outlets owned by the federal reserve please.

You win again.
The TV is the true measure of the truth. I'll chase up some statistical data later

Busy now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:46:22 PM
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
Citation from one of the media outlets owned by the federal reserve please.

You win again.
The TV is the true measure of the truth. I'll chase up some statistical data later

Busy now.
Okay, so you admit that you have no credible sources.  Good to know.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 07, 2017, 08:48:12 PM
There is a chicken or the egg conversation to be had about mass shooters being on medications.  You'll claim it's the medicine causing them to do this because evil of this sort is not in human nature because love. I don't think the answer is so cut and dry.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:48:25 PM
Why ask me when you can turn on your TV and watch news owned by big pharma about big pharma?

They would report honestly about themselves. It's not like they want to make money.

Wait....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:50:35 PM
D1, all simple answers, all the time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:52:47 PM
No simple answers here.

I think we should re-evaluate giving SSRI's to people who just feel blue.

The side effects can be quite extreme.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:54:28 PM
Why ask me when you can turn on your TV and watch news owned by big pharma about big pharma?

They would report honestly about themselves. It's not like they want to make money.

Wait....
Who do you think would report honestly about anti-depressants and mass shootings?  I'm not kidding.  Who do you trust to tell the truth and why do you trust them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:54:36 PM
Yeah, no. Indeed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 09:02:09 PM
Why ask me when you can turn on your TV and watch news owned by big pharma about big pharma?

They would report honestly about themselves. It's not like they want to make money.

Wait....
Who do you think would report honestly about anti-depressants and mass shootings?  I'm not kidding.  Who do you trust to tell the truth and why do you trust them?

People who have no vested interest in what they are doing. I would accept police statistics.

I wouldn't trust google to tell me about their privacy policy for instance.

The people I trust most don't take credit or seek a reward for telling the truth.

We are everywhere.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 07, 2017, 09:03:54 PM
No simple answers here.

I think we should re-evaluate giving SSRI's to people who just feel blue.

The side effects can be quite extreme.

Walked into a doctors office one day. Feeling a bit run down from the many hours doing 2 jobs. Walked out with a prescription for an SSRI anti depressant (maybe Zoloft) and Valium.

Read the side effects for the SSRI was weight gain and suicidal ideation amongst other crap. Figured 'F#&k this shit!' And never bothered with it. The medication is also designed in such a way that once you take it, you MUST keep taking it otherwise it can really screw you if you decide you've had enough.

I get the feeling that doctors get bonuses or commissions if they meet quotas for prescribing 'x' amount of medication. It makes it difficult to trust they are doing what's best for me if they have a personal stake in the advice or prescriptions they give.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 09:13:34 PM
I get the feeling that doctors get bonuses or commissions if they meet quotas for prescribing 'x' amount of medication. It makes it difficult to trust they are doing what's best for me if they have a personal stake in the advice or prescriptions they give.

This.

PM me anytime if you fancy a chat.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 10:24:59 PM
I think we should re-evaluate giving SSRI's to people who just feel blue.
Docs that are giving ssri's to people that don't really need them are bad docs. Simple as that.
(also: people are lazy. They rather take the "wonder pill" that makes them feel good, instead of doing sports, eating healthy, quit smoking etc.)

Walked into a doctors office one day. Feeling a bit run down from the many hours doing 2 jobs. Walked out with a prescription for an SSRI anti depressant (maybe Zoloft) and Valium.
Pretty sure that's not enough indication for prescribing you an antidepressant. Just a lazy doc.

I get the feeling that doctors get bonuses or commissions if they meet quotas for prescribing 'x' amount of medication.
Where I live, they don't, and that's good.

There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
The link probably is, that depressed people have a higher tendency to go for a mass shooting, and depressed people have a higher chance of using/having used an antidepressant. But who knows, perhaps some antidepressants have the side effects of lowering your inhibition threshold.
Anyway, source still needed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 04:27:12 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

The Air Force failed in adding the criminal conduct to his background. So it's not a matter of more gun laws but rather the lack of enfircement of current laws.

How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 08, 2017, 05:05:01 AM

It's nearly like big pharma is run for profit and not for the health of the people.
All companies are run for profits.  Its called capitalism.  They are run for the benefits of shareholders - they have no other reason to exist.

What do you suggest as the solution?  Nationalisation is one option.  Deep and heavily enforced regulation is another.

Neither of which has any chance in the USA right now.  Nationalisation is socialism, and socialism is bad m'kay.  And the current regime is tearing up regulations all over the place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: hoppy on November 08, 2017, 05:14:25 AM
They really need to ban mass shooting hoaxes and cut back on medications,both would reallyhelp a lot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 08, 2017, 05:57:54 AM
They are run for the benefits of shareholders - they have no other reason to exist.
I disagree. Not everyone is driven by purely capitalistic reasons.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2017, 06:10:30 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 06:45:10 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 08, 2017, 07:27:13 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The security of a free State.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 09:03:53 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The security of a free State.

I thought you had an oversized and overfunded army for that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 08, 2017, 10:07:01 AM
They are run for the benefits of shareholders - they have no other reason to exist.
I disagree. Not everyone is driven by purely capitalistic reasons.
I never said they were - that would be silly.

However publicly traded companies, such as pharmaceutical firms, only exist to provide benefit to their shareholders.  In fact they are legally obliged to maximise the return on investment to their investors.  Everyone else can get fucked.  That's the system.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2017, 11:32:38 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
The imminent zombie apocalypse.  Or all out nuclear war with North Korea.  Whichever comes first.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 08, 2017, 12:14:43 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
The imminent zombie apocalypse.  Or all out nuclear war with North Korea.  Whichever comes first.

The zombie apocalypse I understand, but why would a war with North Korea require an average hick in some small American town need a semi automatic for?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 08, 2017, 12:21:31 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
The imminent zombie apocalypse.  Or all out nuclear war with North Korea.  Whichever comes first.

The zombie apocalypse I understand, but why would a war with North Korea require an average hick in some small American town need a semi automatic for?

Don't underestimate them, they gonna shoot the missile down themselfes!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 08, 2017, 12:31:09 PM
Well they did defeat those hurricanes eventually. Good thing you guys had those guns you could shoot at the storm. I see your point
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 12:55:15 PM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

The Air Force failed in adding the criminal conduct to his background. So it's not a matter of more gun laws but rather the lack of enfircement of current laws.

How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?

So you want to ban pistols and double action revolvers that emulate semi automatic fire?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 12:57:54 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

The VTech shooter used ten round magazines and pistols and he committed the largest mass shooting until Orlando.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2017, 12:59:00 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 12:59:39 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 01:01:10 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2017, 01:04:05 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Pistols seem to be used in quite a few cases of homicide and also gang related violence. Pistols can be easily concealed while it'd be more difficult to conceal a long arm. Thus, if gangsters can't hide their weapon, they may be less likely to openly carry one reducing homicides in the process.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 01:05:30 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 08, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Pistols seem to be used in quite a few cases of homicide and also gang related violence. Pistols can be easily concealed while it'd be more difficult to conceal a long arm. Thus, if gangsters can't hide their weapon, they may be less likely to openly carry one reducing homicides in the process.

Yeah, I've been wondering about this also. The Swiss were mentioned a while back. I wonder if the those military firearms are all rifles.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 04:47:24 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Pistols seem to be used in quite a few cases of homicide and also gang related violence. Pistols can be easily concealed while it'd be more difficult to conceal a long arm. Thus, if gangsters can't hide their weapon, they may be less likely to openly carry one reducing homicides in the process.

Has any country had their homicide rate go down because they banned handguns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 04:50:17 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2017, 06:07:23 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
So 60% of mass shootings are carried out by pistols, yet banning pistols wouldn't reduce homocides? That sounds fishy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 07:07:07 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
So 60% of mass shootings are carried out by pistols, yet banning pistols wouldn't reduce homocides? That sounds fishy.

Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list. In fact guns sales have gone up while violent crime (including murder) has gone down. I'm not saying it's because we have so many guns but I am saying that this goes against the myth of more guns equal more crime.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2017, 07:32:35 PM
Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list.
To which top ten list are you referring?  Mass shootings?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 08, 2017, 10:18:20 PM
Here we can see the average american citizen [3:56]:

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 04:26:08 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
So 60% of mass shootings are carried out by pistols, yet banning pistols wouldn't reduce homocides? That sounds fishy.

Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list. In fact guns sales have gone up while violent crime (including murder) has gone down. I'm not saying it's because we have so many guns but I am saying that this goes against the myth of more guns equal more crime.

This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 04:28:52 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.

Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 09, 2017, 04:53:20 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 05:26:45 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:33:23 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Don't forget muzzle loaders. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:34:13 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 05:35:53 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 05:37:12 AM
Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list.
To which top ten list are you referring?  Mass shootings?
DD asked for murder rates in general. However, statistically speaking, we don't even make the top ten in mass shootings either.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1s&v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:40:47 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!

I don't think you or I should belittle the worst mass shooting in American history.  If you want to discuss this important subject without standing on people's graves, I would be more than happy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 05:42:32 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 05:43:43 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!

I don't think you or I should belittle the worst mass shooting in American history.  If you want to discuss this important subject without standing on people's graves, I would be more than happy.
Yeah you're right, let's respect all the people hurt at the vegas shooting by buying semi-automatic guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 05:44:41 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?

How common are wild west shootouts in modern America?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 05:46:06 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:52:03 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!

I don't think you or I should belittle the worst mass shooting in American history.  If you want to discuss this important subject without standing on people's graves, I would be more than happy.
Yeah you're right, let's respect all the people hurt at the vegas shooting by buying semi-automatic guns.

Perhaps you should find some childrens graves to preach off of, while you are at it?  I thought that was the favorite place for bleeding heart liberals to push their political adgendas.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 05:55:31 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:56:45 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?

How common are wild west shootouts in modern America?

Cowboys are not known for their semi-autos, now are they?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 06:00:09 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.

At least I don't try to soap-box by pointing at dead childred, you sick f*ck.  Are you sure your name is not Piers Morgan?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 06:01:09 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.

Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.

Pistols are a sub-catagory of handguns. There are single and double action revolvers and flintlock pistols. Most modern handguns are either semi auto or double action which elumate semi auto fire.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 06:03:12 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.

At least I don't try to soap-box by pointing at dead childred, you sick f*ck.  Are you sure your name is not Piers Morgan?
As I said.
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 06:04:29 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 06:05:12 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.

At least I don't try to soap-box by pointing at dead childred, you sick f*ck.  Are you sure your name is not Piers Morgan?
As I said.
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.


So, your name is Piers Morgan?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 06:06:33 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...

Please provide your "proof" and there is no benefit to cigarettes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 06:08:31 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 08:44:41 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi.

But they're still allowed in the US, right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 08:52:55 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

I don't want them banned from the police! In the vast majority of self defense situations, a couple of shots at most are enough. Actually shots aren't even required in most of them, just the threat of the weapon is enough. Even in cases where there are many attackers, I can't think of many scenarios where they wouldn't just stop after someone is shot or even at the threat of a gun, unless they also have guns and you have a fucking western shootout. How many of these situations happen every year and how many people die in mass shootings?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 08:56:50 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...

Please provide your "proof" and there is no benefit to cigarettes.

Cigarettes have the same benefit as hunting. Also I don't see what the benefit of the cigarettes has to do with my argument.

The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 09:34:10 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi.

But they're still allowed in the US, right?

I am allowed to buy a semi, but not a full auto AK.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 10:35:49 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi.

But they're still allowed in the US, right?

I am allowed to buy a semi, but not a full auto AK.

Well there you go.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 09, 2017, 05:38:38 PM
I don't want them banned from the police!

Jeez DNO just go to parliament, pull your pants down bend over and spread your cheeks. ""Please daddy""

It's too dangerous fot private citizens to have internet access too because of the conspiracy theories online.

Only police should have access to the interent.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 09, 2017, 05:57:14 PM
Every time there's a shooting we have the gun debate. I wish, instead of the how, we could figure out the why.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 09, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
Every time there's a shooting we have the gun debate.
It just a shame that the gun debate isn't happening in DC.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 09, 2017, 06:27:51 PM
I don't think it would do any good for them to debate it. They can't do it without throwing in a bunch of bullshit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 09, 2017, 07:23:34 PM
At least it would be better than the perpetual "it's too soon" BS they keep using.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 09, 2017, 07:31:40 PM
Well is it still too soon to talk about what happened at Sandy Hook and the lessons we could learn from it? Or the plenty of other school rampages in the past? Or do we just get mass shootings scheduled every so often so that the 'It's too soon' can always be churned out and the conversation never happens  :( :-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 10:20:31 PM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

I don't want them banned from the police! In the vast majority of self defense situations, a couple of shots at most are enough. Actually shots aren't even required in most of them, just the threat of the weapon is enough. Even in cases where there are many attackers, I can't think of many scenarios where they wouldn't just stop after someone is shot or even at the threat of a gun, unless they also have guns and you have a fucking western shootout. How many of these situations happen every year and how many people die in mass shootings?

People defend themselves with firearms at the least 100,00 times per year. At the same time less people die from rifles as a whole than by hands and feet. And while many times, the mere presence of a gun deters an attack, I'm not depending on that to defend myself. Plus, police face the same threats as you and I. they just face it more often. And with the recent shooting, the guy who stopped the shooter with his AR nearly ran out of rounds by the end of it all.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 10:21:53 PM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...

Please provide your "proof" and there is no benefit to cigarettes.

Cigarettes have the same benefit as hunting. Also I don't see what the benefit of the cigarettes has to do with my argument.
The second amendment isn't about hunting.
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2017, 12:20:10 AM
The problem is not the tool of choice, it's the the insane person behind the tool.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 10, 2017, 02:23:55 AM
Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.
Almost impossible to compare - how violent crime is defined and recorded varies wildly from country to country.

However the USA does have an intentional homicide rate 5 times higher than the UK.

Quote
People defend themselves with firearms at the least 100,00 times per year
Got any more made up stats?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 10, 2017, 02:30:13 AM
Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.
Almost impossible to compare - how violent crime is defined and recorded varies wildly from country to country.

However the USA does have an intentional homicide rate 5 times higher than the UK.

Quote
People defend themselves with firearms at the least 100,00 times per year
Got any more made up stats?

If you're subscribed to Bloomberg (anti gun site)then you can read this.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense

And if you're not subscribed to Bloomberg you can read this.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/myth-3-25-million-defensive-gun-uses-each-year-cant-be-accurate
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 10, 2017, 04:54:48 AM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2017, 05:21:44 AM

How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun?



Depends on the vulnerability of the chosen victims.
With a big sharp knife one could probably ace 100 kids in 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 10, 2017, 05:37:40 AM
I'd recommend a chainsaw for that kind of job.  You could end up with repetitive strain injury, or something equally horrific, otherwise.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 10, 2017, 07:48:34 AM
I'd recommend a chainsaw for that kind of job.  You could end up with repetitive strain injury, or something equally horrific, otherwise.

XD
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2017, 11:46:42 AM
Why not shorten the season and impose a two person bag limit?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 10, 2017, 08:32:12 PM
The problem is not the tool of choice, it's the the insane person behind the tool.

In spite of sounding obvious, this is actually closer to the the mark that anything else anyone has said on the topic so far.

A proportion of the United States population is not just gun crazy,  they are literally crazy.   Add the two together. What's the result?

Not that the USA has a monopoly on crazy,  far from it, every country has it's looney fringes,  Australia has people like dipstick and shifty,  god help us if they ever got their hands on automatic weapons. 


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 10, 2017, 09:16:01 PM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html

And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 10, 2017, 11:45:34 PM
Good post Luke.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 10, 2017, 11:48:35 PM
Australia has people like dipstick and shifty,  god help us if they ever got their hands on a computer with internet access.

I'm afraid it's far too late for that.

Your agenda here has been completely exposed. Why are you still allowed to post here with that account? You only supporters are Crutonius, Bullwinkle, Symptom, jroa and SCG.

Your operation has been exposed. I thought we were past this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 11, 2017, 01:01:02 AM
Australia has people like dipstick and shifty,  god help us if they ever got their hands on a computer with internet access.

I'm afraid it's far too late for that.

Your agenda here has been completely exposed. Why are you still allowed to post here with that account? You only supporters are Crutonius, Bullwinkle, Symptom, jroa and SCG.

Your operation has been exposed. I thought we were past this.

Meh,  I see that your trolling has deteriorated to falsifying quotations.  Pretty much confirms all I ever thought about your personal honesty and integrity. 

You fail even the most basic test of integrity.   Lying scum that you have proven yourself to be.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:07:58 AM
It's funny how no one can quote me lying tho hey.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 11, 2017, 01:15:55 AM
It's funny how no one can quote me lying tho hey.

I just did.  Are you really that dishonest?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:27:40 AM
I'll let you in on a little secret. The post quotation is actually a url also and you can click on it. It takes you back to the original post made.

You made some ridiculous ad hominem against myself and shifter and I responded in turn. I'm actually a very good shot with a rifle and better than average with a handgun.

However my weapon of choice is a computer and the battlefield has always been teh internets. You and your handlers and more scared of free speech than guns. You're not even shilling to take away all guns, just from "crazy people" which today could be substituted for someone who disagrees with the MSM news.

Lying would be insisting you said something you didn't. Like crutonius did concerning MaNaeSWolf. Click the post to see your original, it's still there and it really does work.

Look at what I did to your entire team here mainly with a smartphone and mobile data.
You and I both know which weapon you'd prefer us having.

Quote from: Kevin Shipp CIA whistleblower
They know we have the internet and they are scared, trust me.

You are right to be afraid.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 11, 2017, 01:40:32 AM
I'll let you in on a little secret. The post quotation is actually a url also and you can click on it. It takes you back to the original post made.

You made some ridiculous ad hominem against myself and shifter and I responded in turn. I'm actually a very good shot with a rifle and better than average with a handgun.

However my weapon on choice is a computer and the battlefield has always been teh internets. You and your handlers and more scared of free speech than guns. You're not even shilling to take away all guns, just from "crazy people" which today could be substituted for someone who disagrees with the MSM news.

Lying would be insisting you said something you didn't. Like crutonius did concerning MaNaeSWolf. Click the post to see your original, it's still there and it really does work.

Look at what I did to your entire team here mainly with a smartphone and mobile data.
You and I both know which weapon you'd prefer us having.

Quote from: Kevin Shipp CIA whistleblower
They know we have the internet and they are scared, trust me.

You are right to be afraid.

When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.  Shifty is the anti gun proponent. 

Half the crap you post makes no sense, the other half involves delusions that there is a conspiracy against you personally, and you are some kind of 4chan anon keyboard warrior,  you seriously need to get help, you are only one step away from madness.

But keep posting, I get a chuckle every so often from your ignorance.

BTW,  Just so you know, for future reference, mass murderers are by definition crazy insane.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sceptimatic on November 11, 2017, 01:43:44 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:46:19 AM
Jeez scepti.
Totalitarian much?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:48:55 AM
You're not even shilling to take away all guns,
When have I advocated for gun control?

Wait, what?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sceptimatic on November 11, 2017, 01:51:47 AM
Jeez scepti.
Totalitarian much?
Nope, just a modern day man trying to live the life I have with as little fuss as possible in terms of physical fights that gain no traction and become pointless energy wasting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 02:35:17 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sceptimatic on November 11, 2017, 02:39:50 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
No need for that.
Imagine the drop in crime if people were not able to get away with using tools designed to kill en-masse.
Just take away the tit for tat potential of that and the make punishments fit the crimes from those that flout the laws.
No need to cut off arms and legs.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 11, 2017, 02:54:17 AM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html
You do realize that was a gang, not just one person, right?

Quote
And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
Good, compare that to Sandy Hook.

Quote
Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Neither show up. Meanwhile I found this which contains many sources: https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com

Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 11, 2017, 02:57:38 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

Yeah, because the two are totally comparable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 11, 2017, 07:00:29 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 11, 2017, 11:17:10 AM
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 11, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?

Apparently not in the minds of quite a few. I feel that the nra has done a masterful job in convincing people that any regulations on firearms are always a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to confiscating everyone's guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 11, 2017, 12:00:24 PM
If you talk with NRA members, you will often find that the leadership does not properly represent the members attitudes towards things like universal background checks and common sense regulations.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 11, 2017, 01:07:29 PM
The people should stop giving the NRA their money. I hang up on those mofos every time they call.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 11, 2017, 04:37:44 PM
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?

Context is everything.  The statement I made was to correct disputes assertion that I was "shilling to take peoples guns". 

When you grow up in a rural environment,  you realize guns are just a useful tool, nothing more nothing less.  If I see a wild dog pack attacking lambs,  I'm going to be reaching for a rifle.

That has nothing to do with people going crazy with semi automatic weapons and murdering innocents. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 05:41:34 AM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html
You do realize that was a gang, not just one person, right?

At ten people, that equals to about 3 people per person. Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder. Someone with a truck killed over 80 people in France.

Quote
And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
Good, compare that to Sandy Hook.[/quote]

Or Nice, France?
Quote
Quote
Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Neither show up. Meanwhile I found this which contains many sources: https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com

Ok, I'll give you that for now. But that isn't proof that guns are the reason for our crime rate.
Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 12, 2017, 08:52:38 AM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?
[/quote]

Well when gun advocates make that claim, they usually reference a couple of exceptions, for instance Chicago, or Maryland, but if you look at the total, it paints a different picture. First of all you have to consider the fact that some states have passed very strict gun laws specifically because of the issues they were facing with crime, while others haven't felt the need to do so because of the low violent crime rates. "Strict" gun laws is something that is hard to gauge, so what I did was compile the number of provisions every state had to regulate firearms and find the mean, split them into two groups (strict laws, loose laws) and use this board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
to determine the average murder rate in these states. Now I did fuck something up because I ended up with a couple more states in the "strict" category, but that shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's not a perfect way to gauge how strict the laws are, but it was the easiest way without making things too complex.

Here are the states of the "loose" category:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming.

Here are the "strict" states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusets, Michigan, Minnessota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, Iowa.

The average murder rate for the loose states was 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJ4ZFWc.png)

The average murder rate for the strict states was 5 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/9dFBqcV.png)

So on first inspection, it seems like they do indeed have a very slightly higher murder rate (it's actually pretty close, but there is a difference). However, notice how there's a very extreme spike in the value chart of the strict states. That's DC. No idea why it has that high a murder rate, but it doesn't really fit very well with the rest of the chart. Dropping it gives a murder rate of 4.2 for the "strict" states, which is lower than the "loose" states. Now you may or may not accept that, but these results show that at best they're about equal, they definitely don't contribute to the higher crime rates. And if you look at the states with a murder rate above 8 per 100,000 inhabitants it's just 2 (Maryland and DC) which pass the mark for the "strict" states, compared to 5 (South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alaska) for the looser ones.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 09:37:56 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 09:57:47 AM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?

Well when gun advocates make that claim, they usually reference a couple of exceptions, for instance Chicago, or Maryland, but if you look at the total, it paints a different picture. First of all you have to consider the fact that some states have passed very strict gun laws specifically because of the issues they were facing with crime, while others haven't felt the need to do so because of the low violent crime rates. "Strict" gun laws is something that is hard to gauge, so what I did was compile the number of provisions every state had to regulate firearms and find the mean, split them into two groups (strict laws, loose laws) and use this board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
to determine the average murder rate in these states. Now I did fuck something up because I ended up with a couple more states in the "strict" category, but that shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's not a perfect way to gauge how strict the laws are, but it was the easiest way without making things too complex.

Here are the states of the "loose" category:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming.

Here are the "strict" states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusets, Michigan, Minnessota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, Iowa.

The average murder rate for the loose states was 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJ4ZFWc.png)

The average murder rate for the strict states was 5 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/9dFBqcV.png)

So on first inspection, it seems like they do indeed have a very slightly higher murder rate (it's actually pretty close, but there is a difference). However, notice how there's a very extreme spike in the value chart of the strict states. That's DC. No idea why it has that high a murder rate, but it doesn't really fit very well with the rest of the chart. Dropping it gives a murder rate of 4.2 for the "strict" states, which is lower than the "loose" states. Now you may or may not accept that, but these results show that at best they're about equal, they definitely don't contribute to the higher crime rates. And if you look at the states with a murder rate above 8 per 100,000 inhabitants it's just 2 (Maryland and DC) which pass the mark for the "strict" states, compared to 5 (South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alaska) for the looser ones.

For one I did said violent crime. For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning. And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California. Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Badxtoss on November 12, 2017, 10:36:35 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
No need for that.
Imagine the drop in crime if people were not able to get away with using tools designed to kill en-masse.
Just take away the tit for tat potential of that and the make punishments fit the crimes from those that flout the laws.
No need to cut off arms and legs.
While that sounds like a good idea, it would not work in the states for a few reasons.  One being we are already flooded with guns, you simply can't round them up.
Another is our constitution.  Now you could make lots of legit arguments about how what we have now is not what was intended etc but the fact remains it is in the constitution and would require a new amendment to change that.
And that's just first ones that popped into my head.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Badxtoss on November 12, 2017, 10:38:16 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
That struck me as pretty funny as well!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 10:56:43 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
That struck me as pretty funny as well!

It's worse than saying cops are racist while at the same time saying only cops should have guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 12, 2017, 12:08:53 PM
I am surprised scepti...very surprised you would advocate security over freedom.

As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 12, 2017, 12:33:41 PM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.
It's not particularly easy, finding the materials can be a challenge and it's quite possible that you'll be tracked.

Quote
For one I did said violent crime.

Yes, that's violent crime right there.

Quote
For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning.

I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, you claimed that states with stricter gun laws tend to have more violent crimes, and I showed it's not true, that's all there is to this.

Quote
And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California.

Yeah, so? What does that prove? The smaller population also means that these are far less likely. And there are plenty of small states that are in the strict category. Besides, you say this next:

Quote
Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

First of all that completely defeats your previous point. Second isn't that sort of expected, given that California is way, way larger than most other states?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 12, 2017, 05:58:01 PM
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense.  There's also a saying that your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 13, 2017, 09:44:58 AM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.
It's not particularly easy, finding the materials can be a challenge and it's quite possible that you'll be tracked.

All you need is gunpowder, a metal pipe, and a fuse of some kind. Gun powder is readily available, you get pipes from Home Depot, and find some means to get a fuse to ignite it.

Quote
Quote
For one I did said violent crime.

Yes, that's violent crime right there.

It's a type of violent crime. It doesn't include rape or robbery.

Quote
Quote
For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning.

I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, you claimed that states with stricter gun laws tend to have more violent crimes, and I showed it's not true, that's all there is to this.

You only showed states with murder rates, not violent crime in general.

Quote
Quote
And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California.

Yeah, so? What does that prove? The smaller population also means that these are far less likely. And there are plenty of small states that are in the strict category. Besides, you say this next:

If I'm not mistaken mkst of the murders within those states happens in the few large cities the states have.

Quote

Quote
Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

First of all that completely defeats your previous point. Second isn't that sort of expected, given that California is way, way larger than most other states?

For one I'm not saying it's because they have struct gun laws is the reason. However I am saying that it does go against the narrative of states with looser gun laws have more mass shootings. And in fact, states with looser gun laws have a slightly lesser gun homicide rate than those with stricter gun laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 13, 2017, 10:08:58 AM
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense.  There's also a saying that your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

How does this not make sense? The founding fathers knew how baby steps lead to a police state, oppression and tyranny. Baby steps will eventually lead you over a cliff no matter how slow you walk. So...don't take any steps and you will never start the slow motion suicide.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 13, 2017, 10:20:42 AM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 13, 2017, 10:42:32 AM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 13, 2017, 11:40:22 AM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

No. What SCG mentioned is the most blatant and obvious examples, but you can find more. For instance, most drugs are not allowed. Speeding or driving under the influence is not allowed. I can thing of hundreds of examples of things and activities that don't infringe anyone's rights directly, but are banned because of the danger they pose compared to their merit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 13, 2017, 11:54:38 AM
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I've never heard that saying before.  It sounds like nonsense, to be honest.

To live as a part of a society we give up all sorts of freedoms - otherwise you don't have a civilisation, you have anarchy.  The Rule of Law is an agreement to give up certain freedoms for the greater good.

Do you think that people have the right to posses a tank or a predator drone or a stealth bomber or a thermonuclear missile?  I'm guessing not, at least on the nuclear missile front.  In which case you and scepti and myself all agree that the state should restrict citizens access to weapons - what we disagree on is which weapons.

So this is an argument about the degree by which the state should restrict access to weapons, not some absolute position.  Just because someone might want stricter laws around gun ownership, does not mean they want (or deserve) to live in a totalitarian dictatorship.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 13, 2017, 12:40:02 PM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 13, 2017, 12:50:06 PM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners.
Good point.  Even during the constitutional convention in 1787, slaves were only considered 3/5 of a person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 13, 2017, 12:58:18 PM
I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners.

I cannot disagree with that. It did cross my mind when typing that, however didn't know if I wanted to go there or not.

Though even slaves had rights, however, unfortunately was not observed or enforced often.

Slavery is a shit piece of history for human beings. All races and genders have been enslaved at one point or the other. Still is happening in certain parts.

Also, remember here, some of the first slave owners were black themselves. Not that it really matters, just shows it is a human condition and not a race one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 13, 2017, 10:01:01 PM
I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners.

I cannot disagree with that. It did cross my mind when typing that, however didn't know if I wanted to go there or not.

Though even slaves had rights, however, unfortunately was not observed or enforced often.

Slavery is a shit piece of history for human beings. All races and genders have been enslaved at one point or the other. Still is happening in certain parts.

Also, remember here, some of the first slave owners were black themselves. Not that it really matters, just shows it is a human condition and not a race one.

Slavery and Master have just evolved to different words but mean much the same

Master = Employer
Slave = Employee

While some of us have the luxury of choice, in many parts of the world, you are a slave from your own kind. One example are the 'sweat shops' in Asia

Go back in history and you will find mankinds greatest achievements and monuments were due to slaves. The Pyramids, the Great Wall etc. We all marvel at these accomplishments today but hell, it is said more than a million people died building the Great Wall which is nearly double that of those that died in the American Civil War!

Slavery is not just an American thing of white masters and black slaves. Every nation, including many today are guilty of enslaving others to the contempt of human rights. To only allow the label of slavery in the context of America centuries ago does a grave disservice to the genuine suffering of people who are still be every true definition of the word, slaves today. I know, its not 'politically correct' to label a non white male as a slave master but its true.

I walk past Chinese massage parlours here and I feel so sorry for the 'employees' slaves. Paid an illegal pittance well below minimum wage laws, some of them are forced to offer 'happy endings' to make additional $$$ for their slave masters (who shock horror is not a white male but a fellow Chinese/Asian)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 14, 2017, 03:40:08 AM
I walk past Chinese massage parlours here and I feel so sorry for the 'employees' slaves. Paid an illegal pittance well below minimum wage laws, some of them are forced to offer 'happy endings' to make additional $$$ for their slave masters (who shock horror is not a white male but a fellow Chinese/Asian)

Well to be fair you'll find out that most of the companies that produce their stuff there are owned by white dudes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 14, 2017, 04:10:16 AM
If you go high enough up the corporate ladder, sure. But does the owner of a factory in China give a damn he drives some of his workers to suicide while only paying them a few dollars a day while he lives a life of luxury from their literal blood, sweat and tears?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 14, 2017, 04:16:43 AM
If you go high enough up the corporate ladder, sure. But does the owner of a factory in China give a damn he drives some of his workers to suicide while only paying them a few dollars a day while he lives a life of luxury from their literal blood, sweat and tears?

Doesn't seem like they care.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 14, 2017, 06:25:43 AM
Slavery and Master have just evolved to different words but mean much the same

Master = Employer
Slave = Employee
Employee to boss: You can't fire me.  Slaves have to be sold.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 14, 2018, 12:47:39 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-presence-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/

What the hell is going on with our high schools?  This seems to happen a lot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 14, 2018, 12:51:22 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-presence-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/

What the hell is going on with our high schools?  This seems to happen a lot.
It sure has nothing to do with guns and gun control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 14, 2018, 01:43:04 PM
It's that liberal brainwashing the schools are doing nowadays.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 14, 2018, 02:10:00 PM
It's that liberal brainwashing the schools are doing nowadays.

If you tell everyone they are a victim, it's only natural that some will believe it and want to take action/revenge
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 14, 2018, 02:26:06 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-presence-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/

What the hell is going on with our high schools?  This seems to happen a lot.
It sure has nothing to do with guns and gun control.
The shooting has many things to it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 14, 2018, 03:14:03 PM
There's lots of anger in the world right now. It's more than guns. I mean, the guns aren't helping, but they're not the cause of all this anger and hatred.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 14, 2018, 04:01:25 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 14, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
So we are only halfway through February and apparently this is already the 18th school shooting. 17 dead at the moment.

WTF is wrong with people? Not sure why there are so many angry people that want to indiscriminately take lives. Forget gun control. This is a cultural problem now. A generation of psychopathic narcissists walk among you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 14, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
Does anybody know how many of these psycho shooters were affected in some way by social media,  either being bullied,  or radicalized in some way.

Maybe jroa is right, ( got to be a first time for everything :) ) maybe there is a generation of snowflakes who get bullied and socially isolated.  Then one day they snap.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 14, 2018, 05:04:50 PM
When I look at people talking about almost any topic on the internet it's filled with hate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 14, 2018, 05:10:53 PM
I have often believed that social media has actually disconnected people from each other. The 'connection' we get from social media is faux.

It has devalued life to nothing more than a screen. On the inside, we still crave that real connection with people. It is who we are, but we have isolated ourselves without realising it. When you go out for dinner, to fill the time while waiting for your meal, you used to talk to the person you were with, laugh, make jokes, hold their hand etc. We don't do that anymore. We are glued to our screens in silence. We are social creatures but that is anything but social. It's living a life in solitary. We know how that mindfucks people up. This social media and screen time probably does a similar job on peoples psychiatric wellbeing
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 14, 2018, 05:22:27 PM
I have often believed that social media has actually disconnected people from each other. The 'connection' we get from social media is faux.

It has devalued life to nothing more than a screen. On the inside, we still crave that real connection with people. It is who we are, but we have isolated ourselves without realising it. When you go out for dinner, to fill the time while waiting for your meal, you used to talk to the person you were with, laugh, make jokes, hold their hand etc. We don't do that anymore. We are glued to our screens in silence. We are social creatures but that is anything but social. It's living a life in solitary. We know how that mindfucks people up. This social media and screen time probably does a similar job on peoples psychiatric wellbeing

Well said.  I wonder if anyone has done research on the connection between todays crop of mass shootings and social media?
   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 02:33:56 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 02:52:02 AM
It's that liberal brainwashing the schools are doing nowadays.

If you tell everyone they are a victim, it's only natural that some will believe it and want to take action/revenge
You people really don't understand the newer generations. Very few people actually think they're victims or behave like snowflakes, or at least very little people compared to what's normal for teens. It's not a prevalent mentality, actually it's the opposite. They're more likely to feel ashamed, angry or unimportant. Do you know how common depression and high levels of stress are now? It's almost the default. Because the world is much more indifferent to individuals than it used to be, for many reasons, and it's so easy to get completely isolated. I guess the internet plays a role in this too. People get shut out of social contact, then they find other angry people anonymously expressing their anger on the internet, and it's so easy for things to get out of control. Then there's also how polite society now is and how it represses that anger. Things build up and get really dangerous over time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 15, 2018, 03:01:18 AM
Great post DNO.
I'd like to say that we're too busy trying to treat the symptom and not the cause. We tend to prescribe drugs that are a band-aid instead of getting to the root of the younger generations depression and anxiety.

Social media, the mainstream media and advertisements (don't get me started on advertisements) are absolutely damaging our children that's why I am always on about how evil it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 15, 2018, 03:02:37 AM
I guess the internet plays a role in this too. People get shut out of social contact, then they find other angry people anonymously expressing their anger on the internet, and it's so easy for things to get out of control. Then there's also how polite society now is and how it represses that anger. Things build up and get really dangerous over time.

I will say these two points contradict each other, shitposting is pretty therapeutic. Better than the social competition that facebook has become.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 03:58:14 AM
I guess the internet plays a role in this too. People get shut out of social contact, then they find other angry people anonymously expressing their anger on the internet, and it's so easy for things to get out of control. Then there's also how polite society now is and how it represses that anger. Things build up and get really dangerous over time.

I will say these two points contradict each other, shitposting is pretty therapeutic. Better than the social competition that facebook has become.

I don't know, maybe shitposting is therapeutic for some people, but other people get stuck in circle jerks that fuel their anger.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 15, 2018, 04:20:42 AM
I kind of feel like the social media/smartphone thing is sometimes perceived as a bigger problem than it actually is. I always see the older generation complain the younger ones are on their phone 24/7. My own experience is, that if you are going out with friends, noone uses their phone (except for maybe showing a funny pic or checking what time it is). And this is the case for basically all people I know.
Of course, there sure are some that are all the time on their phone, even when with friends (especially the so called 'influencers'; but at least they make money with it). But I'd say those are a small percentage, and they are probably addicted, meaning they'd need help. And some addicts and weird people have always existed and will always exist, I doubt that the percentage is any higher than let's say, 50 years ago.

I kind of agree with DNO. I feel like expressing your anger about anything has become very hard to do in the real world - you never know whether someone films you, and the stuff might getting uploaded to the internet, which could destroy your later career. Also, the pc stuff has gotten kind of over-the-top sometimes. And if there is no outlet for anger, it might add up until all the anger bursts out at once (doesn't have to be as bad as a school shooting, but worse than if someone could express their anger in a normal way).

Also, I doubt that shitposting works therapeutic in the long run, I'd say at best it would work short term.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 04:37:31 AM
I kind of feel like the social media/smartphone thing is sometimes perceived as a bigger problem than it actually is. I always see the older generation complain the younger ones are on their phone 24/7. My own experience is, that if you are going out with friends, noone uses their phone (except for maybe showing a funny pic or checking what time it is). And this is the case for basically all people I know.

I also agree with that. Young people don't use them to replace social contact as much as to fill in the gaps in between. One thing that does happen though is how posting on social media becomes such an important part of some people's lives that it starts detracting from various experiences.

Quote
I kind of agree with DNO. I feel like expressing your anger about anything has become very hard to do in the real world - you never know whether someone films you, and the stuff might getting uploaded to the internet, which could destroy your later career. Also, the pc stuff has gotten kind of over-the-top sometimes. And if there is no outlet for anger, it might add up until all the anger bursts out at once (doesn't have to be as bad as a school shooting, but worse than if someone could express their anger in a normal way).
The repression of anger isn't the main issue though. The issue is that the anger and the anxiety and the isolation exist and it's kind of complicated why that is. It's hard to pinpoint it on just one thing.

Quote
Also, I doubt that shitposting works therapeutic in the long run, I'd say at best it would work short term.
Yeah I don't think it's really therapeutic for most people either...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 15, 2018, 06:57:04 AM
There are so many places on the net that circle jerk beyond social media. The internet as a whole is a powerful tool, but is very easy for someone to misuse and help fuel their isolation and bitterness.

The reason people go after the bandaid fix is it's largely 1 size fits all. It may not be enough in 10% of cases, but it is in 90%. If you don't do the bandaid, it takes for effort to address the 90% that the bandaid helps. However, more help needs to be given to the 10% so that they have healthy ways to cope with their issues.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 08:23:07 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly). You get oppression points if you self diagnose with depression, or autism, or whatever. The angry ones who shoot up schools and shit find communities of other angry people and instead of dealing with their issues they wallow in them.

Having mental problems is now an excuse for shooting up a school. Everyone's talking about the guns, hardly anyone is talking about the underlying problems with our society. My Twitter timeline is filled with NRA outrage, and as usual the lines are being drawn and we will get nowhere and this will happen again in a few days.

Social media allows for fast widespread behavioral contagion. Used to be that this type of thing was contained in a small area, but now it travels to everyone instantly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 10:47:27 AM


Well I'm relieved.  For a minute there I thought they were going to do fucking nothing.  But we did get the thoughts and prayers.  So, problem solved.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 15, 2018, 10:50:47 AM
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - The onion

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 11:23:18 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 12:20:28 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html

And he's one of Trump's "very fine people on both sides".  Fucking great.  We can just about expect a presidential pardon for him.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 15, 2018, 12:36:48 PM
Here is the thing with social media though

It gives unrealistic expectations of 'real life'

You 'follow' someone on social media - you see only what they want to share with the world. It's not just images that get filtered, but their life. Young people cant discern the difference. As such, they grow up having unrealistic expectations and naturally, when real life doesn't play out the way they think, they get stuck, depressed, angry etc

Social media also doesn't teach people how to be rejected. No one can handle it these days. Also I remember in school, if you wanted to talk to people or your friends, you actually had to make an effort. And you talked to them much more often and had much more things to talk about.

People are actually 'friending' people they have never even met before. 'Back in my day' you wanted to make a friend, you actually approached a real human being (no, not arealhumanbeing lol). From early on rejection was wired into your brain.

Personally, I believe if you are out in a real social situation, the phone should not be used for anything other than taking a call. You see it everywhere you walk now, (well I do), people using their phones for the 'social media' while out with the friends. The internet has become 'another life' which appears to be taking precedence over the real life

In a nod to PC fans everywhere, there was someone in a workplace that made the news how 'unfriending' a colleague constituted 'workplace bullying'

Social media can be a good tool, but it can also be disastrous

Before social media, you had a real circle of friends. You only had to compete for the attention of only a few dozen people. Since social media opened everyone in the world to everyone else, you are now competing for the attention across hundreds of millions of people. Some people may use social media as an acknowledgement of how successful and important they are.

There is no single answer. People lash out for many different reasons. I do believe the internet age, while leaping our knowledge orders of magnitude faster than ever before, has come with some unique problems.

Personally, I find the Angry Ranting on this board to be highly therapeutic. Not because I'm angry, but because it's so damn funny and in a world being strangled by political correctness, it's awesome there is a place to chill out and be a dick
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 15, 2018, 12:41:47 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html

And he's one of Trump's "very fine people on both sides".  Fucking great.  We can just about expect a presidential pardon for him.

I think that would be political suicide. Trump has thrown many friends under the bus in the past to save himself, I doubt he will pardon this prick. But you could be right.... Trump is unpredictable right. Perhaps he will not only be pardoned but be given a job in the White House?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 12:55:27 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html

And he's one of Trump's "very fine people on both sides".  Fucking great.  We can just about expect a presidential pardon for him.

I think that would be political suicide. Trump has thrown many friends under the bus in the past to save himself, I doubt he will pardon this prick. But you could be right.... Trump is unpredictable right. Perhaps he will not only be pardoned but be given a job in the White House?

I'm half joking and mostly just venting rage. I can't handle it when politicians offer thoughts and prayers when they're the only people that can do anything about this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 15, 2018, 02:27:23 PM
They're more likely to feel ashamed, angry or unimportant. Do you know how common depression and high levels of stress are now?

I have often believed that social media has actually disconnected people from each other. The 'connection' we get from social media is faux.

It has devalued life to nothing more than a screen.

I would say these two are very much intertwined..

Though there are tons of people that view themselves as victims etc. Some people may not even want that, but fall for it because the media is shoving up their ass 24/7 (I can only speak for the states on this)..

Though the biggest issue is the fact humanity is being removed and social media is one of the biggest contributors to that.

Seriously, I don't care if they are kids or adults....if you remove their humanity to a person, killing them would be no different that killing someone in a video game.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 02:59:27 PM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

According to the internet there are between 30 and 50 million users of Tumblr, but you are missing the point. How many users do you think Reddit has? That is snowflake headquarters for angry men (who do almost all of the mass shootings in the US).  I'm not sure why you are so defensive about social media. This website is social media. We're all glued to the internet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 15, 2018, 04:20:02 PM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

According to the internet there are between 30 and 50 million users of Tumblr, but you are missing the point. How many users do you think Reddit has? That is snowflake headquarters for angry men (who do almost all of the mass shootings in the US).  I'm not sure why you are so defensive about social media. This website is social media. We're all glued to the internet.

You make valid points about the polarization and alienation that social media can cause,  but what makes the USA different when it comes to school shootings? 
We have our fair share of alienated angry white males in Australia,  we also have our share of Jihadi extremists,  but we don't have the mass shootings that you guys in the US have. 

While I'm generally pro gun,  the main point of difference seems to be the ready availability of guns in the USA.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:23:49 PM
In other countries that don't have mass shootings, they kill lots of people in schools or subways with knives or machetes.  In some countries, they just run over people with trucks, or explode bombs.  Don't act like it is only the US that mass kills people. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 15, 2018, 04:26:09 PM
In other countries that don't have mass shootings, they kill lots of people in schools or subways with knives or machetes.  In some countries, they just run over people with trucks, or explode bombs.  Don't act like it is only the US that mass kills people.

True,  but the USA seems to have more than it's fair share.   I'm asking why?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
In other countries that don't have mass shootings, they kill lots of people in schools or subways with knives or machetes.  In some countries, they just run over people with trucks, or explode bombs.  Don't act like it is only the US that mass kills people.

True,  but the USA seems to have more than it's fair share.   I'm asking why?

I'd like to know also but we don't have a lot of research on it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/02/gun-violence-public-health/553430/

Thanks NRA!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 04:32:36 PM
Maybe all the poisonous wildlife you have takes care of the would be mass murderers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 15, 2018, 04:52:13 PM
Maybe all the poisonous wildlife you have takes care of the would be mass murderers.

LOL,  for some reason, it's mostly German tourists that get attacked by crocodiles?   No idea why that is?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 04:59:02 PM
All the nature programs about Australia show the stuff that will kill you. Like some fucking spider that sits at the bottom of a swimming pool in a little bubble of air waiting for you to step on it and then DIE within minutes? Also, a lovely little octopus that will kill you. A poisonously cute duck billed beaver thing? WTF? lol

I wonder if you have the super divisive news media over there, like we do here? Also, how much money is in politics there, not the exact amount but do you have wealthy industries manipulating your politics the same way we do?  They like us to be angry at each other so we're too busy shooting each other to pay attention to what they're doing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 15, 2018, 05:04:32 PM
All the nature programs about Australia show the stuff that will kill you. Like some fucking spider that sits at the bottom of a swimming pool in a little bubble of air waiting for you to step on it and then DIE within minutes? Also, a lovely little octopus that will kill you. A poisonously cute duck billed beaver thing? WTF? lol

I wonder if you have the super divisive news media over there, like we do here? Also, how much money is in politics there, not the exact amount but do you have wealthy industries manipulating your politics the same way we do?  They like us to be angry at each other so we're too busy shooting each other to pay attention to what they're doing.

Most of those wildlife shows are just beat-ups.  We like to scare the tourists with them,  but I imagine you guys tell the same stories about grizzly bears, rattle snakes and alligators.

News media is much the same,  we have the Murdoch controlled tabloid stuff, and sensationalist tv current affair shows,  that treat news as entertainment.   We have a pretty good public broadcaster in the ABC.   

There is always money in politics, and we are no different,  I don't think it's as "in your face"  like it is with the super-pacs, and attack ads you have.

I think a lot of people get their news from facebook and twitter these days, rather than the traditional  6:00 tv news.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 06:06:18 PM
I wonder how it is that you guys turned out so differently on guns. I guess you never had them enshrined in a constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 15, 2018, 06:12:34 PM
All the nature programs about Australia show the stuff that will kill you. Like some fucking spider that sits at the bottom of a swimming pool in a little bubble of air waiting for you to step on it and then DIE within minutes? Also, a lovely little octopus that will kill you. A poisonously cute duck billed beaver thing? WTF? lol

I wonder if you have the super divisive news media over there, like we do here? Also, how much money is in politics there, not the exact amount but do you have wealthy industries manipulating your politics the same way we do?  They like us to be angry at each other so we're too busy shooting each other to pay attention to what they're doing.

Apart from one person dying from a redback spider recently (only the females are dangerous and rarely ever leave their web) No one had died from a spider bite in over 40 years.

Only a few dozen people spanning decades have been killed by a snake

Only twerps swim in crocodile infested waters

Those nature shows are beat ups indeed
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 10:00:40 PM
Australia is the most dangerous place in the world.  If you go there, you will die a horrible death.  I saw it on TV. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: rabinoz on February 15, 2018, 10:54:52 PM
Australia is the most dangerous place in the world.  If you go there, you will die a horrible death.  I saw it on TV.
:( ;) :( Sure, and I guess that you're so thankful that you have so many of those M15's over there - we're told that they are such safe weapons :( ;) :(.

But, sure come over and have a swim and see our beautiful sea-creatures like:
The last two are such pretty creatures too.

Don't believe what you read in that sensationalist media, The world's 10 deadliest animals - and they're all Aussies (https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/our-10-deadliest-animals/2648358/)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 15, 2018, 11:02:21 PM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

Just checked that tumblr thing, first time on there in my life (probably). First few posts I see:

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/0d4ed76499cbcbc0eca2bfaeb82602e7/tumblr_p4538lKDyT1tzkxwxo1_1280.jpg)
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/c8887e0435d20e5280587e92a89d7f8a/tumblr_p3zxd5kGwQ1u3u3h0o1_1280.jpg)
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/e96cfe03583a91c7a5b6cfa98fc47e16/tumblr_p4474xDmx41s0iypjo2_1280.png)

Holy crap, that's about as close to virtual cancer as you can get.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 16, 2018, 01:05:07 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

Just checked that tumblr thing, first time on there in my life (probably). First few posts I see:
<snip>
Holy crap, that's about as close to virtual cancer as you can get.

In the words of Douglass Adams,  "Mostly Harmless"

In other unrelated news,  the Australian Prime Minister announced a "Bonk Ban"  apparently it's no longer ok for politicians to have sex with their office staff. 

Yes, he is serious.  Everyone else is sort of gob smacked that it needed to be said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-15/turnbull-slams-joyce-affair-changes-to-ministerial-standards/9451792

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 16, 2018, 02:05:40 AM
You 'follow' someone on social media - you see only what they want to share with the world. It's not just images that get filtered, but their life. Young people cant discern the difference. As such, they grow up having unrealistic expectations and naturally, when real life doesn't play out the way they think, they get stuck, depressed, angry etc

Social media also doesn't teach people how to be rejected. No one can handle it these days. Also I remember in school, if you wanted to talk to people or your friends, you actually had to make an effort. And you talked to them much more often and had much more things to talk about.

People are actually 'friending' people they have never even met before. 'Back in my day' you wanted to make a friend, you actually approached a real human being (no, not arealhumanbeing lol). From early on rejection was wired into your brain.
See this is why I say you don't understand the most recent generations. None of these things are really true. About your first point: while it's true that the life of people they follow can work as a role model for their life, as it always used to be the case with celebrities, unless you are really really young or really really dumb you don't think it's actually how life is supposed to be. It's no different than how it's always been with celebrities.

Also what you don't understand and I've said it again is that they don't use social media as a substitute for personal contact. You still have to make an effort to talk to people and no one thinks people they don't know but friended on facebook are their friends. Not many people actually meet someone through social media without having met them in real life. And I don't understand why you think you can't be rejected through social media.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 16, 2018, 04:08:44 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 16, 2018, 04:41:13 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

The vast majority of us are pro gun.  The vast majority of us also are for reasonable restrictions on who gets what guns.  These two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/637/words-you-cant-say/act-two-3

The problem is we have a gun club that holds an obscene amount of power over our political process who refuses to ever give an inch on the subject.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 05:02:38 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

So you think the SSA should be able to, without due process, strip citizens of their constitutional rights because someone can't balance their checkbook?


Quote
Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms

  What next?  Give the IRS power over free speech?  Oh wait, obama already tried that.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Let's ignore the 5th and 14th amendments so we can deny people's 2nd amendment rights, for political reasons.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 16, 2018, 05:09:17 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

So you think the SSA should be able to, without due process, strip citizens of their constitutional rights because someone can't balance their checkbook?


Quote
Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms

  What next?  Give the IRS power over free speech?  Oh wait, obama already tried that.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Let's ignore the 5th and 14th amendments so we can deny people's 2nd amendment rights, for political reasons.

And right on cue, a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 05:20:53 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

So you think the SSA should be able to, without due process, strip citizens of their constitutional rights because someone can't balance their checkbook?


Quote
Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms

  What next?  Give the IRS power over free speech?  Oh wait, obama already tried that.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Let's ignore the 5th and 14th amendments so we can deny people's 2nd amendment rights, for political reasons.

And right on cue, a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

So yes?

The SSA should have the power to deny constitutional rights of US citizens without due process.

What other rights do want abolish besides the 2nd, 5th, and 14th amendment?

And also if this is such a good idea, why did obama wait 8 years to do it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 16, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Oh no... Not the NAZI tard again...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 05:37:33 AM
Oh no... Not the NAZI tard again...

Oh no.... not a Eurotard talking about freedom again...

Pearls cast before swine.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 06:12:58 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 06:26:25 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.

I agree.
But that decision is made by the court system, not the SSA.

It's called due process
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 07:42:37 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

Just checked that tumblr thing, first time on there in my life (probably). First few posts I see:
<snip>
Holy crap, that's about as close to virtual cancer as you can get.

In the words of Douglass Adams,  "Mostly Harmless"

In other unrelated news,  the Australian Prime Minister announced a "Bonk Ban"  apparently it's no longer ok for politicians to have sex with their office staff. 

Yes, he is serious.  Everyone else is sort of gob smacked that it needed to be said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-15/turnbull-slams-joyce-affair-changes-to-ministerial-standards/9451792

Y'all didn't even scratch the surface of Tumblr. Look up ddlg and maps (minor attracted persons, yep they're pedos). DDLG stands for daddy dom and little girl, there are grown ass men grooming young girls. Not to mention the porn bots that spam the site with violent porn images.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 07:50:22 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.

I agree.
But that decision is made by the court system, not the SSA.

It's called due process
Last I checked, lawyers and judges don't have medical degrees to accurately diagnose someone with a disease.

Let the due process be handled on the back end. Allow them a process to clear their background check. But stop them from purchasing in the mean time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 08:18:49 AM
If you can't get a gun RIGHT THIS SECOND your rights are being violated.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 08:27:41 AM
This is an interesting article (a couple years old) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 08:31:36 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.

I agree.
But that decision is made by the court system, not the SSA.

It's called due process
Last I checked, lawyers and judges don't have medical degrees to accurately diagnose someone with a disease.

Let the due process be handled on the back end. Allow them a process to clear their background check. But stop them from purchasing in the mean time.

Last I checked doctors give court testimony about the mental health of patients all the time.

What part of nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law is unclear?

Last I checked the constitution does not give employees of the SSA the authority to deny someone's 5th amendment rights.

If you can't get a gun RIGHT THIS SECOND your rights are being violated.

No, courts have ruled that reasonable waiting periods don't violate your rights.

How about this:

Should a employee of the SSA have the power to say that Jane Doe shouldn't be able to have an abortion because she doesn't have the mentally to handle finances?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
Simple solution, have the SSA give notice of the intent to list their name on the background check to prevent gun purchases. Give them a 15 day notice and allow them to petition the court to block that action if they wish to contest it.  Boom, purchases blocked and due process rights given.

Instead of just automatically saying "nope, can't do that, can't possibly do anything like that." How about you look at it with common sense and say " you know, if a person can't mentally handle their money, maybe they shouldn't own a deadly weapon." I personally don't want someone with dementia or schizophrenia to own a weapon, I've seen dementia first hand, a person could kill someone and literally not have a recollection of it 30 seconds later.

Be part of the solution, not the roadblock that stops any sort of discussion to help find solutions.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
If you can't get a gun RIGHT THIS SECOND your rights are being violated.
This generation and their instant gratification amirite?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 16, 2018, 09:06:17 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 09:06:27 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWK57WpXkAAS3QD.jpg)

15 year old kid (identity being protected because of his age) has been arrested for posting this. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/south-carolina-hs-student-who-allegedly-posted-florida-round-2-tells-cops-it-was-joke.html He's just joking, though!

They really need to figure out how to tone down the coverage after one of these events. I think all the weeping and wailing and the endless stories about the perpetrators and the victims influences some copycats. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 09:15:01 AM
But without coverage, then it's completely swept under the rug and #coverup crops up. It's almost a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.  And who's to say no or little coverage won't encourage someone to go bigger and badder next time to see if they can get more coverage?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 09:17:41 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
I like that measure. I'm assuming he hasn't gotten into any sort of legal trouble over that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 16, 2018, 09:27:02 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
I like that measure. I'm assuming he hasn't gotten into any sort of legal trouble over that?

No legal issues, it is his right legally and as a business. Plus in my opinion helps cover his ass business wise.

Some customers but alot of people who don't even go to his business are making a fuss. Kinda dumb, I see no problem with it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 16, 2018, 09:29:02 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
I like that measure. I'm assuming he hasn't gotten into any sort of legal trouble over that?

Yeah I'm a little curious about that.  It definitely seems like a good thing but if he's not legally required to then it sounds like he's opening himself up to legal action.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 16, 2018, 09:32:43 AM
I bet behind every schoolshooting there's also a very sad story of a lonely guy being bullied for years.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 16, 2018, 09:43:16 AM
I bet behind every schoolshooting there's also a very sad story of a lonely guy being bullied for years.

You should read the article SCG posted.  It's interesting.  It would be a mistake to apply a single stereotype to school shooters.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 16, 2018, 09:49:33 AM
Yeah I'm a little curious about that.  It definitely seems like a good thing but if he's not legally required to then it sounds like he's opening himself up to legal action.

He is legally in the clear. It is ran as a new sale, which under the loophole he found it is completely legal. Even though they brought it in originally, once they retrieve, it's considered a new sale.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 10:10:45 AM
But without coverage, then it's completely swept under the rug and #coverup crops up. It's almost a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.  And who's to say no or little coverage won't encourage someone to go bigger and badder next time to see if they can get more coverage?

Well, I don't mean there shouldn't be any coverage, but the way these things are covered needs to be looked at. I live in Florida, so of course the coverage was non stop and over the top. This was local news, I have no idea how the cable news covered it, but I imagine it was just as breathless. They tend to make stars out of the shooters, describing their families and their lives. They get immortalized in a way they could only dream of. They need to find a way to report these things that makes being the shooter unappealing. I don't know, maybe a psychologist could figure something out. They know how to use psychology to sell us all the shit we buy, they could use it to do something beneficial.


http://thehill.com/policy/defense/373396-us-military-added-4000-to-gun-ban-list-after-texas-church-massacre-report

It's about damn time.

I don't know where to find the documents Wes Lowrey has posted images of on Twitter, but you can look at them in his tweets https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery/status/964553803931570178  I searched for Devin Kelley but nothing from today came up. The Hill article is from a few days ago.

It seems like lots of these mass killers have some history of domestic abuse.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 11:02:10 AM
Looks like the FBI dropped the ball http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/alleged-florida-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz-was-reported-to-fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
Simple solution, have the SSA give notice of the intent to list their name on the background check to prevent gun purchases. Give them a 15 day notice and allow them to petition the court to block that action if they wish to contest it.  Boom, purchases blocked and due process rights given.



Ok, let's replace 2nd amendment w/ the 1st.

If Jane can't manage her finances she might not realize that yelling "fire" in a theater,  should she have to petition the court to go out in public unmuzzled?
 In the USA  government petitions the court to deny rights, not the other way around.  It is the foundation of this country.
Quote

Instead of just automatically saying "nope, can't do that, can't possibly do anything like that." How about you look at it with common sense and say " you know, if a person can't mentally handle their money, maybe they shouldn't own a deadly weapon." I personally don't want someone with dementia or schizophrenia to own a weapon, I've seen dementia first hand, a person could kill someone and literally not have a recollection of it 30 seconds later.

Then change the constitution because that is exactly what it says. 
Hell you couldn't even get a drivers license revoked with such reasons, but it's ok to deny someone due process?

Quote

Be part of the solution, not the roadblock that stops any sort of discussion to help find solutions.

That is what laws are for and I would be happy to discuss what laws could work without denying innocent people of their rights by one person at the SSA.

This was strictly a political move by Obama on his way out the door.
It was done so the hard left could scream that repeblicans want crazy people to have guns.  See rayzors post above.

Also read the article he linked to!  There is NO reason for this rule in the first place, other than to fuel the left's TDS.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 01:02:07 PM
How about this law:

If a kid goes on the rampage charge the parents with at least negligent homicide .
Let Mommy and Daddy realize they they could go to jail and perhaps they'll pay attention.

If congress passes the NAZA Law I would support it.

If Trump did the same with executive order to justice dept I would condemn it and  praise the president that got rid of it. 

Obama issued an executive order allowing government employees to deny citizen's 5th and 2nd amendment rights.  Not to save lives, but  strictly for political reasons and the left praises him for doing it.

Deranged.








Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 16, 2018, 01:07:56 PM
How about this law:

If a kid goes on the rampage charge the parents with at least negligent homicide .
Let Mommy and Daddy realize they they could go to jail and perhaps they'll pay attention.
Congratulations!
That's the dumbest thing I've read so in 2018.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 16, 2018, 01:28:40 PM
Looks like the FBI dropped the ball http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/alleged-florida-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz-was-reported-to-fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html

Here is more info to go along with that.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-statement-on-the-shooting-in-parkland-florida

FL Governor might be asking for the FBI director to resign. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 17, 2018, 09:53:07 AM
Oh no... Not the NAZI tard again...

Oh no.... not a Eurotard talking about freedom again...

Pearls cast before swine.

You don't know shit about freedom (or anything you talk about really). All you know about it is probably stuff you've been told by people trying to convince you they're not taking advantage of you, or to make you feel you have a bigger dick than those who you think don't have it, even though you don't understand what it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 17, 2018, 10:31:44 AM
Turns out the FBI had been warned twice about this guy and they didn't do anything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 10:39:23 AM
That's because they're too busy with all the Muslim terrorists and black lives matter terrorists to watch the white nationalist terrorists.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 17, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 10:43:11 AM
The FBI: controlling and recording everything and spying on everyone, but can't see what's in front of their noses.


Quote
Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?
No I don't.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 10:45:42 AM
I think that is actually the problem. They collect too much data to be able to process it all in any helpful way. What good is it to have all that data if it can't be used in time to stop something bad?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 17, 2018, 11:19:55 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?

I'm pretty sure he's joking.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 11:31:55 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?

I'm pretty sure he's joking.
Shh, don't tell'em. You spoil the fun :(

Although, in terms of privacy, I'd probably be not too far off.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 11:34:52 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

I know this is a silly question as I already know the answer...

Is it remotely possible for you to say something that is either not ignorant, stupid or a lie?

It must be a sad day to wake up and look on the mirror huh? That is if you can sum up the courage to even gaze in said mirror.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 11:41:36 AM
Is it remotely possible for you to say something that is either not ignorant, stupid or a lie?
There isn't.
Saying that was kind of ignorant, right?
So I guess I'm at least pretty good at it  ;)

It must be a sad day to wake up and look on the mirror huh? That is if you can sum up the courage to even gaze in said mirror.
I removed all mirrors, it makes it easier.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 12:30:28 PM
There isn't.
Saying that was kind of ignorant, right?
So I guess I'm at least pretty good at it  ;)


I suppose you are good at something... congrats

Quote
I removed all mirrors, it makes it easier.

An honest answer
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 17, 2018, 03:15:42 PM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?

I'm pretty sure he's joking.
Shh, don't tell'em. You spoil the fun :(

Although, in terms of privacy, I'd probably be not too far off.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/738/028/121.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 04:05:28 PM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/738/028/121.png)

Holy crap that is funny.

On a real note, I have no issue with retarded people...I have a heart for them.

However, a retard that thinks they are better than everyone else and more intelligent (user)...I do have a problem with that
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 17, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
It must be a sad day to wake up and look on the mirror huh? That is if you can sum up the courage to even gaze in said mirror.
I removed all mirrors, it makes it easier.

LOL,  what is it with BHS and mirrors?   He's always asking people "How do you look at yourself in a mirror"  I would have thought it was pretty obvious. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 05:12:24 PM

LOL,  what is it with BHS and mirrors?   He's always asking people "How do you look at yourself in a mirror"  I would have thought it was pretty obvious.

I imagine you do not.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 17, 2018, 05:17:26 PM

LOL,  what is it with BHS and mirrors?   He's always asking people "How do you look at yourself in a mirror"  I would have thought it was pretty obvious.

I imagine you do not.

I'm pretty sure I know how to use a mirror.   Do you do something weird when standing front of a mirror?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 06:04:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4uMS1P.gif)

Is this what you do in the mirror?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 17, 2018, 06:08:32 PM
BHS is workin' dat mirror! You go with yo fine self, guuuurl!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 06:41:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4uMS1P.gif)

Is this what you do in the mirror?

If only I was that hot and cool (there is zero sarcasm here)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 07:02:13 PM
You just need some pants with tassels! Oh and a super cool headband.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 17, 2018, 07:46:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4uMS1P.gif)

Is this what you do in the mirror?

If only I was that hot and cool (there is zero sarcasm here)

Now I understand your comments about being unable to look at yourself in the mirror,  my sincere condolences on the death of your love life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 11:45:34 PM
I bet he hates mirrors because he's ugly af, and now he is - once again - projecting...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 18, 2018, 12:39:40 AM
He totally saw a vagina once, though. That's what happens when you're the ALPHA.

Like ya. So jelly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 03:51:01 AM
I bet he hates mirrors because he's ugly af, and now he is - once again - projecting...

I am not the one that was scared to post a picture up.

More stupidity from the dunning-kruger poster child.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 05:46:35 AM
I bet he hates mirrors because he's ugly af, and now he is - once again - projecting...

I am not the one that was scared to post a picture up.

More stupidity from the dunning-kruger poster child.
I'm not sure how posting a picture makes you better looking. But whatever.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 08:10:56 AM
I'm not sure how posting a picture makes you better looking. But whatever.

Women don't run from me if I approach them..no matter how many times your mother tells you it is normal they flee the scene when you approach, it is not.

Though in reality, you make fun of what people look like yet you are too much of a chicken shit to post a picture...as our Jewish friend said "We know he looks like a foot"...

Including all your other failures on this site (and life), you are literally a walking epic fail. Is there anything you win at? Surely you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 08:17:27 AM
Women don't run from me if I approach them..no matter how many times your mother tells you it is normal they flee the scene when you approach, it is not.

Though in reality, you make fun of what people look like yet you are too much of a chicken shit to post a picture...as our Jewish friend said "We know he looks like a foot"...

Including all your other failures on this site (and life), you are literally a walking epic fail. Is there anything you win at? Surely you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede.
Well, I won at the evolution debate (you know, the thread where you chickened out), that's kind of satisfying  8)

Also, you're cute when angry  ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 08:52:40 AM

Well, I won at the evolution debate (you know, the thread where you chickened out), that's kind of satisfying  8)

Also, you're cute when angry  ;)

Getting disgusted with the thread is different than losing. Even evolution proponents were fed up with your copy pasta.. especially when it was obvious you had no idea what any of it meant. You would find something that sounded complex copy and paste it.

You can restart it if you wish to use your own words this time. Though you tried to the beginning of the thread before you went to copy pasta since you were getting kicked around so badly (or could barely complete a few sentences)..

I hope you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede...there are plenty of jokes out there about y'all, but this is getting ridiculous
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 09:02:44 AM

Well, I won at the evolution debate (you know, the thread where you chickened out), that's kind of satisfying  8)

Also, you're cute when angry  ;)

Getting disgusted with the thread is different than losing. Even evolution proponents were fed up with your copy pasta.. especially when it was obvious you had no idea what any of it meant. You would find something that sounded complex copy and paste it.

You can restart it if you wish to use your own words this time. Though you tried to the beginning of the thread before you went to copy pasta since you were getting kicked around so badly (or could barely complete a few sentences)..

I hope you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede...there are plenty of jokes out there about y'all, but this is getting ridiculous
Why'd I restart a discussion with someone that just accuses his opponent of 'copy pasta' once he sees himself losing? I have better things to do; you're not on my niveau and thus not worth the time, sorry.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 09:25:46 AM
Why'd I restart a discussion with someone that just accuses his opponent of 'copy pasta' once he sees himself losing? I have better things to do; you're not on my niveau and thus not worth the time, sorry.

It wasn't just myself that caught it...even proponents for evolution caught it and made it known, explained how you were not making any sense. It's not like these people even like me, so it wasn't for my benefit...it was for the fact you were sounded that stupid/ignorant (nothing out of the ordinary)..

Though I had no doubt you would back out of an actual conversation...you can actually use copy pasta if you wish, just try and make it relevant this time, or at least make sense.

As for not being on your level, yeah I don't deny that... honestly I don't think anyone is on your level here...it is hard to look down that far, perhaps maybe a brain dead rodent could relate to you.. however, even that might be an insult to the rodent.

You should be counting your blessings that you live in a nanny state...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 09:29:57 AM
It wasn't just myself that caught it...even proponents for evolution caught it and made it known, explained how you were not making any sense. It's not like these people even like me, so it wasn't for my benefit...it was for the fact you were sounded that stupid/ignorant (nothing out of the ordinary)..
I don't think you have actually read the thread.

Though I had no doubt you would back out of an actual conversation...you can actually use copy pasta if you wish, just try and make it relevant this time, or at least make sense.
There are questions still left open in the evolution thread. You can try to answer them any time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Papa Legba on February 18, 2018, 09:44:13 AM
This mass shooting was teh wurst:



It never had a proper inquest either, just like the fake shit all you shill bots are clacking about...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Zaphod on February 18, 2018, 09:59:10 AM
How many kids need to get killed before America will wake up and do something about it?

Maybe this has been posted before so apologies if it has, but Australian comedian Jim Jefferies sums it up well....

part 1

(http://)

part 2

(http://)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Papa Legba on February 18, 2018, 10:33:27 AM
How many kids need to get killed before America will wake up and do something about it?

Well, the inquests on these alleged crimes should give us that number...

But they never have proper inquests on them, so I guess the number is Zero.

Besides, the mods and admins of this forum are more interested in having sex with children than saving them, so why ask in the first place?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74370.msg2027400#new

Sick place, eh?

Gotta wonder what its real purpose is...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 18, 2018, 03:49:50 PM
I see Infowars are up to their usual journalistic standards.   https://www.infowars.com/report-florida-shooter-inspired-by-isis-allahu-akbar/

Twitter response to infowars.  https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

Meanwhile, the troll farm, and fake news sites are having a field day... https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 18, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Propaganda disinfo.

https://twitter.com/altGS_rocks/status/964498434769215488

Kinda obvious, automated disinfo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 08:01:37 AM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 19, 2018, 09:26:03 AM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).

In Texas it is the same for both
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 09:35:13 AM
Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 19, 2018, 10:07:15 AM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).

Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

Do they have to be registered or can you purchase guns from trade shows (or in the parking lot of one) legally?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 19, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

I'd be surprised if it didn't. A lot of bad decisions are done by people with poor impulse control. When you force then to take some time to think about it they'll usually do something less stupid.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 10:25:44 AM
I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that you can buy a gun from an unlicensed seller without a background check in Florida. This means any person who is not in the business of selling guns. So, yeah, you could buy a gun in the parking lot of a gun show or Walmart legally as long as neither the buyer or seller is already banned from owning guns. I get the point of that, if you have a gun and you want to sell it to your friend then it shouldn't be a big deal, but it's hard to make reasonable laws that include reasonable exceptions. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 12:00:48 PM
What magical law would prevent something like this? The problem is we're not enforcing the myriad laws we already have on the books.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 19, 2018, 12:12:56 PM
What magical law would prevent something like this?
Why do you think requiring a license to purchase or own firearms and a limited number of rounds unless you have a different special license is a "magical" law? Also if people aren't allowed to drink under 21 in your country I think it makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed to own guns either. I agree that it's more important to look at the real cause that leads people to commit these shootings, but that's not something you can just solve at the flip of a switch. You also have to take more immediate action.

Also I'm beginning to think Rayzor is right about these bots. I was reading something about Black Mirror from two months ago and I looked at the comment section of the article and there were a bunch of completely off topic comments, sometimes replies to actual on topic comments that were in no way related to them, promoting Trump and/or various alt right ideologies, and they all had a curiously high amount of likes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 12:26:20 PM
What magical law would prevent something like this?
Why do you think requiring a license to purchase or own firearms and a limited number of rounds unless you have a different special license is a "magical" law? Also if people aren't allowed to drink under 21 in your country I think it makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed to own guns either. I agree that it's more important to look at the real cause that leads people to commit these shootings, but that's not something you can just solve at the flip of a switch. You also have to take more immediate action.

Also I'm beginning to think Rayzor is right about these bots. I was reading something about Black Mirror from two months ago and I looked at the comment section of the article and there were a bunch of completely off topic comments, sometimes replies to actual on topic comments that were in no way related to them, promoting Trump and/or various alt right ideologies, and they all had a curiously high amount of likes.

And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 12:30:49 PM
We were told by Sarah Sanders after the shooting at the music festival "Now is not the right time to talk about gun control"

I am wondering if it's time yet?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
Which existing gun laws are not being enforced?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:32:35 PM
We were told by Sarah Sanders after the shooting at the music festival "Now is not the right time to talk about gun control"

I am wondering if it's time yet?

The right wing nuts say that after every shooting. One of my sisters says it all the time. I asked how many days do we have to wait, and do we have to wait extra days if it happens again while we're waiting for the first time limit to expire.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 12:33:57 PM
Which existing gun laws are not being enforced?

Take the Vegas shooter. The navy or whatever failed to report his record so he was able to purchase those guns when by law he shouldn't have been able to.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:36:46 PM
Which existing gun laws are not being enforced?

Take the Vegas shooter. The navy or whatever failed to report his record so he was able to purchase those guns when by law he shouldn't have been able to.

I thought it was the Texas shooter who should have been on the list.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 19, 2018, 12:40:48 PM
I think that it's so easy to get guns and ammunition in the USA is part of the problem, yes., but the underlying cause seems to be the american gun-obsession. I mean other countries, for example switzerland, have a lot of guns, too, but they are not obsessed with them (although I'm pretty sure they have still way less weapons per adult citizen than the us).

Als I wonder whether going berserk is a bigger problem in the usa than in other countries, or whether it's just that the americans tend to use a gun when going nuts whereas people in other areas do different things (e.g. fist fight to let their anger out, which tends to be less deadly).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:44:24 PM
There is a weird thing going on with people in the US. People are angry about everything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 19, 2018, 12:47:27 PM
There is a weird thing going on with people in the US. People are angry about everything.
When looking at BHS, that certainly is true. Although I'm not sure if he's representative.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 12:48:20 PM
There is a weird thing going on with people in the US. People are angry about everything.

What if the problem in Flint with lead leeching into the water supply is actually far more widespread. Obviously it is political suicide to happen under a politicians watch so if they knew about it what lengths do you think a pollie would go to cover it up?

We know lead can make people violent and aggressive
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/#2f5f615012c4

As they say 'must be something in the water'
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:55:43 PM
If we were all on the same water that would be a thing to look at!

They did look at lead before because removing it from gasoline correlated with a decrease in crime, but I don't know whatever came of that. The crime rates have been on the decline for a long time now. Mass shootings are on the increase, but violent crime over all is down.

The mass shooters all make me think of people who commit murder suicide. Like they want to die and take as many people with them as possible.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 19, 2018, 02:03:26 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:12:58 PM
Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

I'd be surprised if it didn't. A lot of bad decisions are done by people with poor impulse control. When you force then to take some time to think about it they'll usually do something less stupid.

I would like to see a study that shows that people impulse buy legal guns with the intent of commiting a crime.  In the 1990s, we were subject to the Brady bill in which there was a mandatory 2 week wait time to buy a firearm, and studies from the 2000s showed that during that time, gun crimes did not go down at all.  A wait time is just an inconvenience for the buyer.  Criminals can buy illegal firearms and have no wait time at all.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 19, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 02:21:25 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 02:29:54 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?


Motivation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 02:30:11 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:31:49 PM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).

Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

Do they have to be registered or can you purchase guns from trade shows (or in the parking lot of one) legally?

Gun Shows run you through the federal background check just like a gun store.  You can avoid this only through a private transaction, but no, there is no registration unless you chose to register with the manufacturer for warrantee reasons, and the government is not suppose to be saving records of background checks.  I personally have no problem with a registration, except that that is what Australia did, and then when it came time to round up guns, they knew exactly who had what.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 02:36:46 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)

It's already illegal for a convicted felon to possess a firearm. That doesn't seem to stop them though. And I know that at least in some states if you are deemed mentally unstable you can't own a firearm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 19, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:39:30 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)



AR 15s are not high powered assault rifles.  They fire intermediate cartridges (5.56 mm or .223 cal. or both.)

After the most recent shooting, all of the news retards kept saying he used a high caliber or high poser rifle and had lots of clips.  5.56 is not high caliber, and I could imagine him loading a magazine over and over with stripper clips, lol. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.


A stolen gun costs $50
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 19, 2018, 02:43:07 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.

That's awesome you have a 3D printer!

The first gun ever made didn't work that well either. As 3D printing becomes more common and sophisticated, better and better guns will start being produced.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.

It is already legal to machine your own gun parts, including the part that would normally be used to track firearms or even the entire firearm if you chose.   Not exactly plastic, but I think I remember someone printing a plastic lower receiver (the only component that has a serial number on an AR).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 02:52:57 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)



AR 15s are not high powered assault rifles.  They fire intermediate cartridges (5.56 mm or .223 cal. or both.)

After the most recent shooting, all of the news retards kept saying he used a high caliber or high poser rifle and had lots of clips.  5.56 is not high caliber, and I could imagine him loading a magazine over and over with stripper clips, lol.

I am not talking about the weapon used in this instance specifically, but the firepower available to almost anyone without question because of this 2nd amendment is unbelievably ridiculous.

You have people blowing each other away in traffic because someone may have accidently cut someone else off. We are abhorred at the fact 17 people died in the school that day. More than double that is murdered by a gun every single day. It is out of control

Thank God, Australia came to its senses before we crossed a point of no return. It's too late for America now. All you can do is manage the problem with more token background checks. I'm not sure how you fix your culture. Maybe not giving these losers notoriety for a start.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 03:01:29 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)



AR 15s are not high powered assault rifles.  They fire intermediate cartridges (5.56 mm or .223 cal. or both.)

After the most recent shooting, all of the news retards kept saying he used a high caliber or high poser rifle and had lots of clips.  5.56 is not high caliber, and I could imagine him loading a magazine over and over with stripper clips, lol.

I am not talking about the weapon used in this instance specifically, but the firepower available to almost anyone without question because of this 2nd amendment is unbelievably ridiculous.

You have people blowing each other away in traffic because someone may have accidently cut someone else off. We are abhorred at the fact 17 people died in the school that day. More than double that is murdered by a gun every single day. It is out of control

Thank God, Australia came to its senses before we crossed a point of no return. It's too late for America now. All you can do is manage the problem with more token background checks. I'm not sure how you fix your culture. Maybe not giving these losers notoriety for a start.

Cities like Chicago, Baltimore, and Detroit all have some of the strictest gun laws in the country and their murder rate is the highest in the country.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:08:53 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-assault-weapons-ban-gun-violence-experts-say/?utm_term=.4928145d16e5

Also, the murder rate isn't the same as the mass shooting rate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
All the previous assault weapons bans did was make it harder to buy a weapon with a bayonet stud or pistol grip.  It did nothing to reduce gun violence and crimes.  Why bring it back? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:20:57 PM
Well they could make it as hard to buy an AR-15 as it is to buy a handgun, at least. An AR-15 is a luxury weapon, you don't need it to hunt, it's just for showing off or killing a bunch of people. Why not make people wait 3 days and have a real background check? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:23:20 PM
Which mass shooting would have been prevented if the shooter had to wait 3 days? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
Which mass shooting would have been prevented if the shooter had to wait 3 days?

It's one of those things we can never get concrete information or statistics on. I guess its designed to stop buying and acting on impulse.

Its one of those things. the fraction of a percent of people ruin it for the 99+% that wouldn't do anything wrong with it
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:33:10 PM
Which mass shooting had the shooter impulse buy the firearm within 3 days of the shooting? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:33:32 PM
How can we find out if it helps if we're not willing to try?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:35:00 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
We tried back in the 90s with the Brady Bill and it did not work.  Why try the same thing twice?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 03:39:39 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.

Then he would have used his pistols and other guns to do it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:40:00 PM
Why would it have to be exactly the same as the Brady Bill? Are you sure there's nothing we can do to try to stop this? How about not allowing sales of guns to people on the terrorist watch list? Is that out of bounds, too?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
Which mass shooting had the shooter impulse buy the firearm within 3 days of the shooting?

Is that 3 day wait designed only for mass shooters or any improper use of a gun?

Imagine a husband coming home to find Heiwa banging his wife.... Now that alone could put you over the edge. If you didn't already have a gun, you might decide to drive to the nearest gun store, purchase the biggest, baddest weapon and come home and blow them both away (and then yourself because you cant live with the fact you cant unsee Heiwa's nakedness). Now if you had to wait 3 days, maybe you might have calmed down to be more rational.

Of course, if you already owned a gun like most Americans anyway, you wouldn't need to go to a store - you'd go and do the deed right there on the spot.

Of course these gestures are tokenistic, but there needs to be some level of control over it that extends beyond the buyer
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:41:17 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.

Then he would have used his pistols and other guns to do it.

How many pistols and other guns did he have?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:44:18 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.

Then he would have used his pistols and other guns to do it.

How many pistols and other guns did he have?

I think he was joking about reducing the restrictions on pistols to the level of ARs. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Well, apparently he had 7 other rifles, but the articles I've found doesn't say what kind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:53:05 PM
Why would it have to be exactly the same as the Brady Bill? Are you sure there's nothing we can do to try to stop this? How about not allowing sales of guns to people on the terrorist watch list? Is that out of bounds, too?

The Brady  Bill was the only national restrictions on "assault rifles."  Your article called for bringing back restrictions on "assault rifles." 

As far as terrorist watchlists go, my concern is that you would not know your are on the list untill your try to fly or by a firearm, and once you are on there, getting off could take years and a lot of money to lawyers.  Lots of normal people ended up on the lists and it ruined their lives.  Relatively few actual terrorists get on the list, and it is unknown if the list has actually stopped any terroristic crimes from happening.  People on the list not be allowed to drive or buy kitchen knives because they might commit terror with those items?  If the FBI suspects someone of being a terrorist, they should arrest them and prosecute them, not put them on a list.   

If I remember right, there was even a legislator or two who ended up on the list.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 04:02:41 PM
I wonder if the FBI could put us all on a watch list of sorts for some of the shit we post in the AR boards lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:04:44 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.

The problem is that there is no due process for being put on that list.  You are not suspected of commiting a crime and you are not suspected of planning to commit a crime.  You are only a suspected of being a suspicious person.  We can't take rights away from people on hunches. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:06:06 PM
I wonder if the FBI could put us all on a watch list of sorts for some of the shit we post in the AR boards lol

I don't think that "NO U!" qualifies to be put on the watchlist.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 19, 2018, 04:07:43 PM
Headline article on the Conservative Tribune
(https://s9.postimg.org/kp8m9bqfj/Conservative_Tribune.png)

Ok,  so what was she lying about.  Ah.. it's a tweet about gun statistics.   Here is the Tweet

Quote from: Hillary Clinton Tweet
Hillary Clinton
@HillaryClinton
This week we lost 17 Americans in Parkland - the deadliest school shooting since Sandy Hook in 2012. Since then, 438 people have been shot and 138 killed in over 230 school shootings. That’s 5 school shootings every month, 16 of which classify as “mass shootings.”

So,  what's wrong with that?  I hear you ask.

Quote from: https://conservativetribune.com/hillary-clinton-school-shootings/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=conservative-brief&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content=conservative-tribune
“Since then, 438 people have been shot and 138 killed in over 230 school shootings. That’s 5 school shootings every month, 16 of which classify as ‘mass shootings.’”
Note that last sentence, which may seem a bit ambiguous or confusing to you.


As The Washington Post notes, that statistic is from Everytown for Gun Safety, a heavily astroturfed, left-wing, gun control group. And its statistics on school shootings were so misleading that even the WaPo — hardly a den of covert NRA activity — wrote an article about the group’s statistics bluntly titled, “No, there haven’t been 18 school shootings in 2018. That number is flat wrong.”
“The figure originated with Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit group, co-founded by Michael Bloomberg, that works to prevent gun violence and is most famous for its running tally of school shootings,” the newspaper reported.

Umm... she never said there have been 18 school shootings in 2018?

Once again the right wing nutters,  shoot themselves in the foot,  by illustrating that they are deliberately lying knowing that the average reader just skims the headlines.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.

The problem is that there is no due process for being put on that list.  You are not suspected of commiting a crime and you are not suspected of planning to commit a crime.  You are only a suspected of being a suspicious person.  We can't take rights away from people on hunches.

I agree the watch list is bad right now, but even if we weren't talking about guns that watch list thing is worth fixing. We need to fix things and not give up on them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 04:11:28 PM
Well, apparently he had 7 other rifles, but the articles I've found doesn't say what kind.


Ones with much less scary names.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:14:58 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.

The problem is that there is no due process for being put on that list.  You are not suspected of commiting a crime and you are not suspected of planning to commit a crime.  You are only a suspected of being a suspicious person.  We can't take rights away from people on hunches.

I agree the watch list is bad right now, but even if we weren't talking about guns that watch list thing is worth fixing. We need to fix things and not give up on them.

The watch list has been around for nearly 2 decades.  It was broken from the start and has barely gotten better with time.  Like I said, if you suspect someone of being a terrorist, just arrest and prosecute them.  Then, you won't have to worry about them buying a gun or flying. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:15:38 PM
Why can't we get our fearless leaders to do anything worthwhile.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 04:21:09 PM
Why can't we get our fearless leaders to do anything worthwhile.

At least with Trump, you knew where he stands and that nothing of substance on the matter will get done

With Obama, he simply filled the room with hot air, empty promises and a disingenuous caring about the problem. It's easy to look like a good guy when your talking about a mass murderer. Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:21:49 PM
THANKS OBAMA!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:23:16 PM
This rifle shoots the exact same bullet as the AR 15.  If is not black and scarry looking with a collapsible stock and pistol grips, but it has a comparable rate of fire and magazines with the same number of rounds.  Where do we stop with the restrictions? 

(http://images.extrabullet.com/img/guns/83013.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:29:12 PM
My brother has an AR that is camouflage, you can't see him when he carries it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 04:30:12 PM
This rifle shoots the exact same bullet as the AR 15.  If is not black and scarry looking with a collapsible stock and pistol grips, but it has a comparable rate of fire and magazines with the same number of rounds.  Where do we stop with the restrictions? 

(http://images.extrabullet.com/img/guns/83013.jpg)

Simply bump up the age to 25. This is the age when the brain (especially in males) has finished developing especially in the area which deals with reason and consequences

If you want to play with guns before then, join the military (might bump up your conscription rates too)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:30:26 PM
By the way, that rifle is a mini 14 and is used quite often to stop coyotes from eating your live stock or drug smugglers from trafficing across your property. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 19, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.

(https://s9.postimg.org/c893yne3j/sandyhook.png)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 04:34:02 PM
Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.

(https://s9.postimg.org/c893yne3j/sandyhook.png)

Meets Sandy Hook victims for hours - does nothing anyway

Sat alone in the classroom - with the addition of a photographer

Attends a party
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 04:35:48 PM
Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.

(https://s9.postimg.org/c893yne3j/sandyhook.png)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html)


Obama was not alone in the classroom.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:37:50 PM
Sat alone in a classroom with a photographer to document his tears. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 19, 2018, 04:39:06 PM
Sat alone in a classroom with a photographer to document his tears.

After talking to the parents for hours. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 04:40:42 PM
Sat alone in a classroom with a photographer to document his tears.

After talking to the parents for hours. 


That's about as token of a gesture as Trump skipping golf
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 19, 2018, 04:41:47 PM
Imagine a husband coming home to find Heiwa banging his wife....

I offer €1M to anyone who can prove that this is even remotely possible. Only twerps believe Heiwa can even get it up anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Maybe he has a penis pump.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 05:16:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWbZB00X4AY1QR6.jpg)

I know we ain't supposed to talk about Fight Club, but maybe these mass shootings are what happens when people get very very pissed off and feel there's nothing they can do about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 19, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWbZB00X4AY1QR6.jpg)

I know we ain't supposed to talk about Fight Club, but maybe these mass shootings are what happens when people get very very pissed off and feel there's nothing they can do about it.

We tell this generation that they are special and they can do and be whatever they want to be. Then reality bites them and they realise they are but a pleb among billions and that they cant be whatever they want and there are no prizes for simply turning up.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 09:51:13 PM
Over the past 50 years the number of fire arms restrictions has increased.
Over the past 50 years the number of mass murder events has increased.

Mass murderers do not appear to care about laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 02:35:34 AM
Just watched fox news Bullwinkle? I nearly thought you had an original idea.

I do agree with the talking point however. Your problems are so much deeper than access to guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 03:37:47 AM
Just gonna post this video again, we can all laugh it off and pretend like nothing is wrong but deep down we know something is fundamentally wrong with the world. We just can't quite put our finger on it.



The people that actually try and address real issues instead of this stale bread and circus which has become our daily lives are ridiculed and called conspiracy nutters or worse by people who really, truly don't care about any of us as humans and never ever will.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 20, 2018, 03:48:54 AM
Just gonna post this video again, we can all laugh it off and pretend like nothing is wrong but deep down we know something is fundamentally wrong with the world. We just can't quite put our finger on it.



The people that actually try and address real issues instead of this stale bread and circus which has become our daily lives are ridiculed and called conspiracy nutters or worse by people who really, truly don't care about any of us as humans and never ever will.
Lol, 25mins of robo-voice. My ass.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 04:29:21 AM
Exactly, laugh it off.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 20, 2018, 05:31:24 AM
Just gonna post this video again
Here's a thought: why don't you try expressing your own ideas in words, rather than linking some embarrassing video?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 20, 2018, 05:41:39 AM
Yep, if the vid has something important in it, then write it down here. But don't expect anyone to waste 25min on mr robovoice.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 05:56:42 AM
Because I get tired of trying. Plus most of this website is bots.

Stop watching T.V.
Think for yourself.
Treat others how you want to be treated.

I don't care if you don't watch it. If I raised any points I would just be ridiculed by bots, and that gets boring for me.

You guys don't like discussion of real issues here, we broke your playground a little. Feelsgoodman.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 20, 2018, 06:06:35 AM
Plus most of this website is bots.
Right.  Of course.  Yet here you are.

Quote
Stop watching T.V.  youtube
Think for yourself.
fixed

Quote
I don't care if you don't watch it.
Well, don't link it and tell people to watch it then.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 06:24:41 AM
t. Bot
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 20, 2018, 07:56:01 AM
I don't care if you don't watch it. If I raised any points I would just be ridiculed by bots, and that gets boring for me.

You guys don't like discussion of real issues here, we broke your playground a little. Feelsgoodman.
If you don't have the balls you can pm it to me. Then no bot will ridicule you (except if you think that I'm a bot, but we both know I'm not, because no bot could ever be that smart).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 20, 2018, 09:30:35 AM
t. Bot
That it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Papa Legba on February 20, 2018, 10:43:41 AM
I see Infowars are up to their usual journalistic standards.   https://www.infowars.com/report-florida-shooter-inspired-by-isis-allahu-akbar/

Twitter response to infowars.  https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

Meanwhile, the troll farm, and fake news sites are having a field day... https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/

Rayzor is an expert on every conspiracy theory and conspiracy forum on the entire internet, bar none, ever.

This does not make it look like an AI algorithm designed to patrol these places, spamming disinfo and wasting peoples time on as many as possible, oh no it does not!

kek
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 20, 2018, 06:44:01 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/20/trump-urges-ban-on-bump-stocks-other-gun-modifiers.html

There it is. President libtard has decided to go down the slippery slope that will definitely end with him taking away everyone's butter knives and giving back the country to the British.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 20, 2018, 06:59:19 PM
This post is adding nothing to the conversation.
I just think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is an awesome combo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 20, 2018, 07:03:28 PM
This post is adding nothing to the conversation.
I just think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is an awesome combo.

It is like a Saturday night in Alabama!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 20, 2018, 07:09:03 PM
Trump is supposed to be taking silencers off the NFA, not asking for more regulations.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 20, 2018, 11:20:37 PM
This post is adding nothing to the conversation.
I just think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is an awesome combo.

That would be quite a FEAT or FATE

Cue the sesame street song,  which of these things go together.   Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 21, 2018, 12:26:17 AM
I see Infowars are up to their usual journalistic standards.   https://www.infowars.com/report-florida-shooter-inspired-by-isis-allahu-akbar/

Twitter response to infowars.  https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

Meanwhile, the troll farm, and fake news sites are having a field day... https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/

Rayzor is an expert on every conspiracy theory and conspiracy forum on the entire internet, bar none, ever.

This does not make it look like an AI algorithm designed to patrol these places, spamming disinfo and wasting peoples time on as many as possible, oh no it does not!

kek

Topkek.

Those damn Russians defending the US constitution. What monsters they are for defending the US constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 21, 2018, 11:30:38 PM


I've gotta say no matter how much I detest Marco Rubio he has nuts of solid iron for facing those kids tonight.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:36:09 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 05:41:44 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

It's got all the hallmarks of a grass roots movement,  doesn't look to me like anyone is coaching them,  I think the NRA has lost already. 

Any politician who takes NRA money is going to be an easy target. 





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:46:55 AM
You just want their guns. It's been about that for so long now. These kids are scared and vulnerable currently and the American media is manipulating them into pushing the Intelligence agencies agenda. There's no other word for that except evil.

There's a quote I like from a movie it's something like this.

"What usually happens when people without guns stand up to people with guns?"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:52:54 AM
Lol I love how you try to add suspense under the post confirming you are invested in the Intelligence agencies agenda to pin this on Trump. It was the shooters fault and perhaps even more his parents fault, the schools fault for not trying to help the guy when he showed signs of sociopathy.

Trump inherited America's culture of mass shootings.

Your lack of concern for anything other than saving your on ass is palpable on this issue.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 05:56:20 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 05:58:43 AM
You just want their guns. It's been about that for so long now. These kids are scared and vulnerable currently and the American media is manipulating them into pushing the Intelligence agencies agenda. There's no other word for that except evil.

There's a quote I like from a movie it's something like this.

"What usually happens when people without guns stand up to people with guns?"

Yes, that's a simplistic solution, if you want to stop mass shootings take their guns away.  The chances of that happening are zero.

Do you seriously think Americans would support a nationwide AR15 buyback?  The political landscape in the USA currently, is that Republicans hold all the cards,  and  nothing is going to change until that changes.

BTW Take your dumb conspiracies elsewhere.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:59:26 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 06:04:06 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 06:04:35 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

Or, have I just red pilled you on the fake plight of the "Boers"?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:06:40 AM
You are both disgusting human beings, you really are.

Why were you both so quick to say "conspiracy" I didn't say anything except these kids are being used to push a political agenda which is also disgusting.

Now I get why you're both giddy.
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:07:50 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 06:08:37 AM
You are both disgusting human beings, you really are.

Why were you both so quick to say "conspiracy" I didn't say anything except these kids are being used to push a political agenda which is also disgusting.

Now I get why you're both giddy.
Nevermind.

I understand.  You're still processing the possibility that the "Boers" are completely made up to control you.  Give it some time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:09:33 AM
This thread is about the people that were shot and what can be done to fix your culture of mass shootings.

You really are disgusting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
You are both disgusting human beings, you really are.

Why were you both so quick to say "conspiracy" I didn't say anything except these kids are being used to push a political agenda which is also disgusting.

Now I get why you're both giddy.
Nevermind.

Um, it was you put forward the conspiracy theory that they were being coached by the media, and pushing the intelligence agencies agenda. 






Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 06:10:45 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?

You know you are so dumb sometimes it's almost painful.   But I'll get over it.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 06:11:55 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."
So there is no way these teens have been seeing years of school shootings and years of nothing being done afterward, and are simply tired of "thoughts and prayers" but little else?  You're completely dismissing them as nothing more than puppets incapable of free thought. THAT'S a pretty abhorrent stance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:13:29 AM
They're being paraded around the country with the Media giving them all their coverage. I don't think it's a conspiracy at this point.

The FBI is willing to do anything it can to discredit Trump before the truth of the Russian issue comes out and this is an example.

I think using survivors to push an agenda days after the event is disgusting but I care more about the people than "winning."

In that regard we will always be at a disadvantage to you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 22, 2018, 06:16:37 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."
I don't think they really require any coaching. A lot of them were probably already of that opinion, after what happened to them they wouldn't need much more convincing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:16:48 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?

You know you are so dumb sometimes it's almost painful.   But I'll get over it.

You know you go from calling me smart to dumb depending on what you are trying to achieve?

Pick a stance and stick to it. Crutonius made a strawman argument and I pointed it out, you then claimed that my argument was the same as Crutonius'. Anyone can see this is incorrect. You're all in on a ten high card mate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: FalseProphet on February 22, 2018, 06:21:05 AM
They're being paraded around the country with the Media giving them all their coverage. I don't think it's a conspiracy at this point.

The FBI is willing to do anything it can to discredit Trump before the truth of the Russian issue comes out and this is an example.

I think using survivors to push an agenda days after the event is disgusting but I care more about the people than "winning."

In that regard we will always be at a disadvantage to you.

Who is "using them to push an agenda"? George Soros?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 06:21:52 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?

You know you are so dumb sometimes it's almost painful.   But I'll get over it.

You know you go from calling me smart to dumb depending on what you are trying to achieve?

Pick a stance and stick to it. Crutonius made a strawman argument and I pointed it out, you then claimed that my argument was the same as Crutonius'. Anyone can see this is incorrect. You're all in on a ten high card mate.

I'm pretty sure I've always thought of you as dumb.   




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 06:40:45 AM
They're being paraded around the country with the Media giving them all their coverage. I don't think it's a conspiracy at this point.

The FBI is willing to do anything it can to discredit Trump before the truth of the Russian issue comes out and this is an example.

I think using survivors to push an agenda days after the event is disgusting but I care more about the people than "winning."

In that regard we will always be at a disadvantage to you.
The media are giving them a platform. I'll give you the fact that CNN and the likes are the ones providing that platform because their views align, but that's a far stretch to say they are being manipulated and used as propaganda.

This problem they are facing goes beyond Trump. It's frustration with all elected officials who refuse to do anything to try to address this issue. It just so happens isn't mostly GOP politicians who refuse to do anything and Trump is their figurehead currently.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:42:08 AM
What do you think will help duck?

It's fine to be upset, the shooting upset me. I'm not sure how this rally agaisnt Trump will save kids lives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 06:59:00 AM
From what I've read, these marches aren't against Trump per se, but against legislators. The same legislators that's consistently say "thoughts and prayers" "now is not the right time" and then a few weeks after the tragedy has passed, they forget it ever happened and do nothing to try to find any sort of solutions.

As to what could prevent this, there are a few things that might curb some of the violence. Increase the age for semiautomatics to match the age for handguns, increase school funding specifically to put in security devices such as metal detectors and devices for class rooms to prevent the doors from opening, run live drills for active shooters at least twice in a school year with one being no less than a month into the start of the year. This is not an exhaustive list, there are so many other ways this issue could potentially be addressed, yet both state and federal legislators seem content to just give thoughts and prayers each time this happens.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 07:33:49 AM
What do you think will help duck?

It's fine to be upset, the shooting upset me. I'm not sure how this rally agaisnt Trump will save kids lives.

Oh we're off the conspiracy theories and back to policy now?

Option 1, do whatever you guys did to stop your problem with school shootings.

Option 2, follow the same path we used to sharply reduce the number of DUI related deaths.

Option 3(what we're doing now), do nothing and try to get used to hearing about children being massacred several times a year.



Edit;  Nevermind all that  .We'll just give guns to the teachers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/02/22/attacks-would-end-trump-expresses-support-for-raising-assault-rifle-age-to-21-presses-cases-for-arming-some-teachers/?utm_term=.b78fa11985eb

This is the problem with having a senile president.  He doesn't understand that this is teacher arming idea is just a distraction technique from the NRA and isn't meant to be seriously considered.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 22, 2018, 08:27:54 AM
On the other hand, raising the age you can own an assault riffle at 21 is a plus. Raising it to 210 would be even better but eh.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 22, 2018, 08:48:01 AM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 09:11:21 AM
I don't think there's any single law that's going to do the job.  I think it's something that's going to take a lot of work experimenting with different laws, studying the results and readjusting the approach.  All of the different factors such as mental health and society need to be considered as well.  It's a long boring slog to improve things.  This is all well within the government's ability.  They do this all the time with trying to find the balance between safety and freedom in most things.  The problem is this process can't be carried out when every time any legislation comes up with any gun restriction the NRA starts screaming "they're comin' to take away yer guns!".

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 22, 2018, 09:24:18 AM
I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 09:45:53 AM
I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

Welcome to the American government
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 22, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 22, 2018, 01:09:59 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it
I agree. Laws are for shit. Like seriously, every criminal ever disobeyed the law... that's 100% proof that laws are useless. We should abandon all laws. That'd even drop the crime rate by 100% - awesome!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 01:21:50 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it
In this latest instance, it might have helped. The shooter was 19 and purchased the weapons himself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 22, 2018, 01:34:59 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it
In this latest instance, it might have helped. The shooter was 19 and purchased the weapons himself.

I agree in principle to increase the age limit. Actually my principles (growing up in a society where no one really has a gun and no one gives a shit about them) is to get rid of the damn things. I don't believe any society could have enlightenment when you allow everyone within it to have enough firepower to take out a small army.

America is waaaay past the point of no return. The guns are there to stay. I would say ban any 'assault' weapon until they are 25. That's when you can have relative assurance the brain is finished developing its reason and consequences bit. It also means most people (at that age) are well and truly done with their education

Why the hell does a teenager need the style of bullets that do so much damage? Let them have rubber ones. If someone pulled a gun on you, rubber or lead, you'd still run like hell away. Your self defence ability is not taken away from you but your killing ability is reduced

I think background checks should also be 'foreground' checks. If you are convicted of a violent crime, bye bye guns. Given how some people value their guns more than they value anything else, maybe they think twice before committing the crime? So you get your background check at 18 years old. Clean record. Grab whatever you like. Yet you an cause all sorts of mayhem that would ordinarily prevent you from owning the guns you bought and still get to keep them? Correct me if that is not the case but if that is the case that's pretty dumb

Obviously I come from a different mindset and different culture. I try to see both sides but am still dominated by my own feelings on it. The students calling for change wont get what they want because what they demand is too overreaching. Need to find a middle ground.

Also, had the FBI done their jobs this shit may never have happened. There is a system in place that could have prevented this from happening but for whatever reason it's broken.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
The problem is, no one wants to address the root of the issue and that is a deranged mentality that seems unique to certain people in the U.S.

Let's take everyone's​ guns...fine, then the nuts will kill people with vehicles...take all vehicles away, then they will kill people with fire, gas, explosives etc etc.

If you want the issue fixed, gotta figure out how to fix these people or spot them early. Yes, the majority in the US is deranged to an extent and it is fairly easy to spot how that happens, but we need to figure out why certain people take it to level 10.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 02:12:10 PM
I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

Conspiracy nutter. No politician is bought and they never ever lie. (Except GRUYMPTHF.)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 22, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
Part of Shifter's Post

"I think background checks should also be 'foreground' checks. If you are convicted of a violent crime, bye bye guns. Given how some people value their guns more than they value anything else, maybe they think twice before committing the crime? So you get your background check at 18 years old. Clean record. Grab whatever you like. Yet you an cause all sorts of mayhem that would ordinarily prevent you from owning the guns you bought and still get to keep them? Correct me if that is not the case but if that is the case that's pretty dumb"

It is already illegal for a convicted felon to possessa firearm, and they can't even buy a gun. That still desn't stop plenty of felons from obtaining guns from other means.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 03:36:07 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 22, 2018, 03:42:47 PM
What a chicken shit. Defensive position??? More like a cowards position.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 04:19:01 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

I refuse to pay that shit media organization to read the link.

No idea what it says
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 22, 2018, 04:24:04 PM
Hmm, I was able to access it. Guess they don't care about overseas people reading in?

Quote
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The armed school resource officer assigned to protect students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School took a defensive position outside the school and did not enter the building while the shooter was killing students and teachers inside with an AR-15 assault-style rifle, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Thursday.

Israel said he suspended School Resource Deputy Scot Peterson on Thursday after seeing a video from the Parkland, Fla., school that showed Peterson outside the school building where the shooter was inside and attacking.

“What I saw was a deputy arrive at the west side of Building 12, take up a position, and never went in,” Israel said.


He said Peterson was armed, and was in uniform, and should have gone into the building during the 6-minute event, which left 17 people, most of them teenagers, dead. When asked what the deputy should have done, Israel said: “Went in and addressed the killer. Killed the killer.”

[ What police are trained to do during active shooter incidents: Find the threat ]

Peterson, 54, a resource officer at the school since 2009, resigned after Israel suspended him. Israel said two other officers have been placed on a restricted assignment pending an internal investigation relating the school shooting.


“They could have done more, they should have done more,” Israel said. “It’s a fluid investigation. They are on restrictive duty.”

Attempts to reach Peterson on Thursday were unsuccessful.

Israel said that Peterson was in an office dealing with a school-related issue when the first shots were fired on Feb. 14 and that he got on his radio and then moved toward the outside of the building where the shooting was taking place. When asked what he is seen doing on the video, Israel replied: “Nothing.”

“I think he took up a position where it looked like he could see the western-most entry into the building and stayed where he was,” Israel said. “Never went in.”

[ The FBI said it failed to act on a tip about the suspected Florida school shooter’s potential for violence ]

Israel said he “clearly” knew there was a shooter inside, something that made him “sick to my stomach.”

“There are no words,” Israel said. “These families lost their children. We lost coaches. I’ve been to the funerals. I’ve been to the homes where they’re sitting shiva. I’ve been to the vigils. It’s just, there are no words.”


The revelation about the deputy comes as law enforcement officials and authorities have faced intense criticism for whether they missed previous chances to prevent the massacre. The FBI was warned last month about the shooter’s potential for violence at a school, but failed to investigate that tip, while school officials, social services investigators and the sheriff’s office had multiple encounters or troubling warnings about him over the years.

Israel’s description of Peterson as an armed, trained officer who was present for a mass killing but did not confront the shooter also comes as President Trump, in response to the Parkland massacre, has suggested arming teachers as a way to deter possible threats, while the National Rifle Association has also pushed for more armed guards in schools.

Trump has frequently suggested in response to mass shootings that more law-abiding people with firearms could help stop a shooter and the head of the NRA has repeatedly suggested the same. However, Israel’s announcement Thursday suggested that even if a person is armed, trained and available to help, that may not stop a mass killing that unfolds in a matter of minutes.


[ The lives lost in the Parkland shooting ]

The deputy’s decision to remain outside breaks with police tactics for responding to active-shooting incidents. Ever since the 1999 attack at Colorado’s Columbine High School, authorities have emphasized the importance of pursuing the attacker or attackers quickly in an effort to eliminate the threat and prevent additional deaths.

“Columbine resulted in new approaches in which patrol officers are being trained to respond to active shooters as quickly as possible,” the Police Executive Research Forum, a think tank backed by major-cities chiefs, wrote in a 2014 report.

Of course, this approach brings with it inherent issues, the report continued, because “a faster response is more dangerous to responding officers. Patrol officers who quickly move to confront an active shooter face a high likelihood of being shot themselves.”

Officers involved in responding to these shootings have later described the terror they felt. A report released by the Justice Department after the San Bernardino, Calif., terror attack quoted an officer who described checking room after room in the conference center where the shooting occurred, expecting to find the shooters behind the final doors.


“I don’t want to say I made peace, but I was ready to go,” the officer said. “We got into one room, and it was empty. We had a quick breath, and in we went to the last room. I was never so excited to not see anybody.”

Reviews like that Justice Department study are regularly conducted after mass shootings, allowing officials to study how officers responded in order to determine what others can improve upon. Following the shooting rampages at the Washington Navy Yard, a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., and the Virginia Tech campus, authorities reviewed what they did and sought ways to improve future responses.

Peterson is mentioned as part of a 2016 social services agency investigation into Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old identified by police as the gunman. According to a Florida Department of Children and Families report detailing that investigation, Peterson was approached by investigators and “refused to share any information … regarding [an] incident that took place with” the teenager.

Berman reported from Washington. This story has been updated.


Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 04:31:42 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

I refuse to pay that shit media organization to read the link.

No idea what it says

Here Bhs this gives them no money. It's a good website just copy the url into the box provided and press archive.

http://archive.is/5mT7O
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 04:34:26 PM
Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 04:45:47 PM

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign



What a police officer is legally required to do is an interesting legal question.

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Yeah I don't know what to think of that.  Maybe he's really there as a deterrent. But it kind of makes me think about the idea of having armed security there.  I mean if they can choose not to get into a gun fight then I don't know how useful they are in a situation like this.

My bad about linking to wapo.  I like them but the paywalls and the length of the link is cumbersome.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 22, 2018, 04:55:28 PM

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign



What a police officer is legally required to do is an interesting legal question.

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Yeah I don't know what to think of that.  Maybe he's really there as a deterrent. But it kind of makes me think about the idea of having armed security there.  I mean if they can choose not to get into a gun fight then I don't know how useful they are in a situation like this.

My bad about linking to wapo.  I like them but the paywalls and the length of the link is cumbersome.

The dilemma is you have a rent a cop guy who isn't properly trained to deal with situations like this. As school shootings is a real and sadly common occurrence, it is something he should be prepared for every day he goes to work. It's not enough to assume that you can stand there and look intimidating (their main role) and on the small chance shit hits the fan, not do your job because you gambled it would never happen.

Also I don't now what the security guards payment is like over there but if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys.

There is a system in place but seems largely broken and vulnerable. Also the root cause of why people are driven to do these horrible atrocities needs to be figured out and stopped. If you have a cancer, you cut out the cancer. Not treat the symptoms.
 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 05:23:50 PM
Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

For once,  I agree,  you can't know in advance who will run, who will fight and who will freeze.   Intensive training can help,  so that it becomes a reflex action to fight.

That guy will live with this for the rest of his life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:23:05 PM
That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 22, 2018, 06:33:17 PM
That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

Unless you train for a specific situation and can respond without thinking,  you can't tell in advance who is going to flee,fight or freeze.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 22, 2018, 06:47:58 PM
That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

Unless you train for a specific situation and can respond without thinking,  you can't tell in advance who is going to flee,fight or freeze.

You had teachers in the school throwing themselves in between the bullets and the kids. You have a guy paid and armed to protect the kids except he waited it out probably hoping the killer would kill himself.

Defensive position my arse. He uses that language in a pathetic attempt to pretend he was doing his job.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 08:06:13 PM
Bravery isn't a lack of fear, bravery is doing what's right regardless of fear.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 12:32:04 AM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

I would argue no guns at all until 21. It's different here you're a full adult at 18. Personally I do think 18 is a little young to be classed as an adult but that's what we've done and it works.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 23, 2018, 02:06:36 AM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

I would argue no guns at all until 21. It's different here you're a full adult at 18. Personally I do think 18 is a little young to be classed as an adult but that's what we've done and it works.

Total nationwide AR15 buy back for the win.

I predict that d1 would be a flee, rather than a fight.   He doesn't have that inner strength to be a fighter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:54:36 AM
Lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:56:38 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 04:25:31 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.


That's not really surprising. That's how TV works. Seriously, it happens with everything, on every channel and for any interview or debate. I know it's a bit ridiculous but it's not new.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 04:33:40 AM
I know man.

It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 05:43:21 AM
Sigh... and we're back to conspiracy theories now.  That's too bad.  I was enjoying the policy discussion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:47:03 AM
See DNO?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:49:12 AM
Listen to the man Crutonius he isn't wrong.

Your media circus is falling apart btw.


That's not really surprising. That's how TV works. Seriously, it happens with everything, on every channel and for any interview or debate. I know it's a bit ridiculous but it's not new.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 05:49:27 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:51:30 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 06:26:54 AM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 06:59:24 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
I know what an aneurysm is, but I didn't quite catch the connection/why you mention an aneurysm here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 07:14:13 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
I know what an aneurysm is, but I didn't quite catch the connection/why you mention an aneurysm here.

D1 wildly overestimates his ability to troll people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 07:18:08 AM
Considering the response of the security guard, I question whether armed teachers would be effective overall.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 23, 2018, 07:34:10 AM
Like any other group of people there would be some who could handle it, but probably most couldn't. They'd need extensive training. This would cost many millions of dollars, imo. Our govt doesn't want to fund public schools properly for education, but I could see the politicians in the NRA's pocket being willing to spend money on this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 07:48:14 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
I know what an aneurysm is, but I didn't quite catch the connection/why you mention an aneurysm here.

D1 wildly overestimates his ability to troll people.
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 09:54:24 AM
I have no idea why people are even considering arming teachers as a solution. That's just fucked up. If you're willing to go to such extremes, it's better to just stipulate checks for everyone before they enter the school.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 09:56:34 AM
I have no idea why people are even considering arming teachers as a solution. That's just fucked up. If you're willing to go to such extremes, it's better to just stipulate checks for everyone before they enter the school.
Well what if a teacher goes mad and starts shooting at his students?
My solution would be to arm the students too. I bet dispute trump and bhs would agree.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 10:15:36 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 10:30:02 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Before we ban them, we need to implement some sort of rating system for games and movies so that children won't be subjected to the violence in rated R movies or rated M games.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 23, 2018, 10:31:16 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.

I agree. I have been playing violent video games and watching violent movies my whole life and I have no inclination to commit a violent act.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 10:45:35 AM
I don't play video games and rarely watch movies, but there is something so satisfying about kicking puppies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 11:14:54 AM
I don't play video games and rarely watch movies, but there is something so satisfying about kicking puppies.
Lol

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Well everyone in the entire world plays videogames and watches violent movies, but it's mostly americans who shoot up schools. Not sure why they think the link makes sense.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 11:16:38 AM
I don't play video games and rarely watch movies, but there is something so satisfying about kicking puppies.
Lol

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Well everyone in the entire world plays videogames and watches violent movies, but it's mostly americans who shoot up schools. Not sure why they think the link makes sense.
For the same reason why they are shooting up schools:
Lot's of retards there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 23, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
The media is really excited about this kid's invention http://kfor.com/2018/02/20/students-invention-to-keep-intruders-out-of-classrooms-is-so-brilliant-that-his-district-has-ordered-one-for-every-room/  Kinda makes me wonder how easy it would be used to trap students inside a classroom, tho. I guess nothing is perfect.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 11:29:43 AM
The media is really excited about this kid's invention http://kfor.com/2018/02/20/students-invention-to-keep-intruders-out-of-classrooms-is-so-brilliant-that-his-district-has-ordered-one-for-every-room/  Kinda makes me wonder how easy it would be used to trap students inside a classroom, tho. I guess nothing is perfect.
BRILLIANT!!! It's... a glorified latch... That's costlier and harder to put on than a normal latch... And it looks like you can't use it for every door... Huh...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 23, 2018, 11:37:17 AM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.

I told him you were a sniveling cowardly little weasel...he will realize it on his own soon enough.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: totallackey on February 23, 2018, 01:24:52 PM
A country where police do not perform regular walking beats and virtually eliminated the national funding for mental health and substance abuse treatment should not be surprised at these types of mass violence incidents.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 02:33:49 PM
Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.
And you know why?
Because unlike you he is capable of understanding when I'm sarcastic/not serious.
Perhaps after your next date he could give you a lesson about it (instead of the d).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 02:56:16 PM
Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.


TBH, sometimes you are difficult to filter.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 02:58:54 PM

TBH, sometimes you are difficult to filter.   ;)

This.

Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.

But I am curious though since I have not seen one of these studies of which you speak.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 03:02:57 PM
Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.
It's not like dulling is a new or unknown phenomen. But of course dulling is not absolute.

Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 23, 2018, 03:04:59 PM
Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.
Because bullying won't make people feel like victims eh? Good riddance with bullying, it's what makes a lot of kids outcasts in their own school to begin with. And the bully is always in the wrong, so long as it really is bullying. The problem is that the kids don't think they can get help from anyone but themselves. And is important to change your situation on your own, but the ugly reality is that sometimes it's just not possible to do it completely alone.

But yeah, it's stupid to say that it's the fault of the rest of society or the whole school. And if you're in a position to do so, try to support them or encourage them to seek support.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:10:07 PM
A little bit of Bullying is good for kids. As I said I never had a male role model and copping shit on construction sites genuinely helped me. Really nasty bullying is wrong however. The kids should be taught to stand up for themselves instead of relying on the state.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 03:11:54 PM
Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.

You are trying to bully me.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 03:13:23 PM
Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.

You are trying to bully me.   ;)
No, I'm just telling you how it is.

If you feel bullied, leave this website and you are done with it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 03:14:24 PM
Let's compromise.  Bullying, no.  Gaslighting, yes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 23, 2018, 03:18:10 PM
You could at least roast a weenie on a gaslight.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:20:12 PM
Let's compromise.  Bullying, no.  Gaslighting, yes.

Mental health is the common denominator in all these shootings. Yet you want to take away citizens right to defend themselves instead of treating the sociopathy issue of your population.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 23, 2018, 03:23:10 PM
A little bit of Bullying is good for kids.
Nope. Hardships, sure. Bullying is completely unnecessary.

As I said I never had a male role model and copping shit on construction sites genuinely helped me. Really nasty bullying is wrong however. The kids should be taught to stand up for themselves instead of relying on the state.
I'll say it once again: Sometimes it's impossible to do anything about it completely alone. Or well, it's not, there's an easy solution to all this: Shoot up your bullies. Can't believe I didn't think about that ;). And no kid is being told to rely on the state, they are told to rely on teachers and grown ups, people who are mature and should be able to help. But I'd wager that too many adults either give the same advice you do: "Just do something about it yourself", don't want to intervene, or won't know what to do. In these cases, the only way to stand up for oneself is to seek support in others.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 03:23:16 PM
Let's compromise.  Bullying, no.  Gaslighting, yes.

Mental health is the common denominator in all these shootings. Yet you want to take away citizens right to defend themselves instead of treating the sociopathy issue of your population.

And you want to take away our gaslights.  How are we supposed to roast weenies?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 03:24:15 PM
Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.

You are trying to bully me.   ;)
No, I'm just telling you how it is.

If you feel bullied, leave this website and you are done with it.


Sounds like more bullying to me.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.
I'm pretty sure what you just described will do much more harm than good.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 04:44:17 PM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.
I'm pretty sure what you just described will do much more harm than good.


Which part. I was kind of all over the place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:56:51 PM
Boys should all be taught boxing / Muay Thai. It's good for them and a healthy way to channel aggression and masculinity.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 23, 2018, 06:11:36 PM
Because getting oiled up and rubbing your bits on on other males is a clear sign of heterophilia.

Let's wrassle!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 23, 2018, 06:16:57 PM
Boys should all be taught boxing / Muay Thai. It's good for them and a healthy way to channel aggression and masculinity.
Different people deal with aggression in different ways. And I don’t think it’s about learning a certain style of martial arts, but more about doing some general activity that is intensive and involves determination as well as explosive releases of energy.

I don’t know what you mean by ”channeling masculinity”.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 23, 2018, 06:19:45 PM


I don’t know what you mean by ”channeling masculinity”.

It's code for "I'm deep in the closet, but I'm still gonna get my rocks off".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 06:29:58 PM
I mean that men are more aggressive than women in general and on average.

Boxing helps men channel their aggression in healthy ways.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/B599KdZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 06:42:43 PM
You gotta watch that I did BJJ for years. The trick is wearing ear protection.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 11:10:33 PM
So because you think it helped with your aggression and masculinity problems, everyone should do it.
Hmm...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 24, 2018, 01:03:10 AM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.
I'm pretty sure what you just described will do much more harm than good.


Which part. I was kind of all over the place.

The bullying part.
Boys should all be taught boxing / Muay Thai. It's good for them and a healthy way to channel aggression and masculinity.
Because video games and violent movies make kids violent, but there is no way violent sports can do that for some kids.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 24, 2018, 02:07:57 AM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.

I told him you were a sniveling cowardly little weasel...he will realize it on his own soon enough.

Actually,  you are the only person that attacks him relentlessly,  you are so blinkered that you never even realize when he's trolling you. 

The rest of us,  think it's pretty hilarious.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 24, 2018, 02:16:12 AM
I mean that men are more aggressive than women in general and on average.

Boxing helps men channel their aggression in healthy ways.

While that might be true in general, it still varies from person to person. There are plenty of girls that are more aggressive than a large portion of boys. I also think that you might be mistaking aggression for frustration, and there are a ton of ways other than agressive sports to deal with frustration. Few people have to deal with aggression specifically.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 24, 2018, 02:17:58 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 24, 2018, 05:06:23 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Well this isn't really a refutation, this is just CNN saying "we didn't do it". Of course we can't really know for sure what happened unless the rest of the participants say something about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 24, 2018, 05:15:28 PM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Well this isn't really a refutation, this is just CNN saying "we didn't do it". Of course we can't really know for sure what happened unless the rest of the participants say something about it.

CNN published the email chain,  and it looks like it was Colton's father who wanted his son to make a long speech about school defence.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/02/23/scripted-controversy-cnn-releases-emails-of-correspondence-with-florida-student/?utm_term=.f98696d1001a

Here's a data point for those following the debate as it evolves.  Emma Gonzales now has more twitter followers than the NRA.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 25, 2018, 03:45:56 AM
LOL   Seen on twitter. 

(https://s9.postimg.org/kk3xwyaz3/lol_russian_idiot.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 25, 2018, 03:50:19 AM
Lol, the retard forgot to enable his vpn.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 25, 2018, 01:59:55 PM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.

I told him you were a sniveling cowardly little weasel...he will realize it on his own soon enough.

Actually,  you are the only person that attacks him relentlessly,  you are so blinkered that you never even realize when he's trolling you. 

The rest of us,  think it's pretty hilarious.

Rayzor lies. I also attack the Swede no end.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 25, 2018, 02:14:50 PM
Rayzor lies. I also attack the Swede no end.
Nah don't worry, I don't consider your occasional mental pukes as attacks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 26, 2018, 09:26:16 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 26, 2018, 11:02:52 AM
So he'd do what, act as a human shield?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 26, 2018, 11:22:40 AM
Might have something to do with having 30 Secret Service agents clearing his path.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 26, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

What a stand up gentlemen. Of course we know he would not be harmed for he is....

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/BJ7A0/super-trump/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 26, 2018, 12:36:27 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

As just Donald Trump, I highly doubt it, but I guess you never know.

As president, definitely not...he would have been wisked away in a heartbeat by the secret service and put to a secure location the instant the first shot was heard.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 26, 2018, 12:40:01 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

As just Donald Trump, I highly doubt it, but I guess you never know.

As president, definitely not...he would have been wisked away in a heartbeat by the secret service and put to a secure location the instant the first shot was heard.

Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 26, 2018, 12:43:09 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

I'm sure he'd love to. But you know, those bone spurs...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 26, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 26, 2018, 12:54:20 PM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 26, 2018, 12:57:08 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.
I'm just picturing an armored vehicle crashing into the school, running over the shooter, a Navy Seal getting out, opening the back door, Trump stepping out, facing the children and telling them "Ok, ok, no need to thank me, I just did my duty".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 26, 2018, 12:59:20 PM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)

No, we don't need to. He already is a hero. He stopped that bitch Killary from taking the mantle of the Oval office. America owes him a debt of gratitude
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 26, 2018, 01:07:07 PM
yeah totally.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 26, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.
I'm just picturing an armored vehicle crashing into the school, running over the shooter, a Navy Seal getting out, opening the back door, Trump stepping out, facing the children and telling them "Ok, ok, no need to thank me, I just did my duty".

These are all amazing ideas.  We just need Steve Bannon to make a movie out of it.  Trump can be played by Alec Baldwin.  His catch phrase would be "yippee ky-yay evil losers!".  The shooter would of course be played by Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 26, 2018, 01:12:27 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.


Headline:  187 Dead in School Shooting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 26, 2018, 01:18:52 PM
Headline:  187 Dead in School Shooting

Lol, but the actual shooter somehow got away
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 26, 2018, 04:49:10 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 26, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?

Friendly fire is Americas specialty. It's what they do!  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 26, 2018, 08:59:32 PM


Holy Hell.  When CNN is wrecking your shit and you're a Democrat...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 26, 2018, 09:39:47 PM


Holy Hell.  When CNN is wrecking your shit and you're a Democrat...

Armchair quarterback! I bet the reporter would have been the first to run and hide if he had been on scene.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 12:00:16 AM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?
Well, they could shoot towards the outside though.

But I think shooting towards the middle would be the better option.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 12:07:16 AM
Lol, the retard forgot to enable his vpn.

Or maybe using a vpn?
Maximum lulz would be had using a Russian vpn. It's not proof it came from Russia, I'm posting from Israel now, for maximum lulz.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 12:13:17 AM
Lol, the retard forgot to enable his vpn.

Or maybe using a vpn?
Maximum lulz would be had using a Russian vpn. It's not proof it came from Russia, I'm posting from Israel now, for maximum lulz.
Yeah I considered that too, but then again, if you use russian location you can't even enter pornhub, so noone would do that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 12:24:58 AM
You know I've never tried.
You can post on tfes from Russia it seems.

I am become Russian hacker, destroyer of democracies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 12:39:36 AM
Lol, you're such a bad boy, you got yourself a russian ip! #respect
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 27, 2018, 01:43:46 AM

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?

Another example of your 1 dimensional thinking...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 27, 2018, 01:47:20 AM

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?

Another example of your 1 dimensional thinking...

Or is it an example of your inability to express yourself in a coherent manner?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:13:25 AM
Lol, you're such a bad boy, you got yourself a russian ip! #respect

I've got a few newf*g.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/now-i-am-become-death-the-destroyer-of-worlds
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:15:42 AM
Who thought you how to use a vpn? Isn't that too complicated for you?
Are you the hackerboy?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:34:10 AM
I'm not a haxxor. You're trolling at about a 4 going to need to bring it up to a 7 or 8 before I bite mate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:40:22 AM
I'm not a haxxor. You're trolling at about a 4 going to need to bring it up to a 7 or 8 before I bite mate.
The 'Isn't that too complicated for you?' was a honest question tho.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:46:07 AM
Can you install and run a vpn on linux? That's an honest question. You should at least try to keep your trolling on topic. I know it's new for you and you're having fun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 27, 2018, 02:50:00 AM
Can you install and run a vpn on linux? That's an honest question. You should at least try to keep your trolling on topic. I know it's new for you and you're having fun.

https://openvpn.net/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:51:36 AM
Can you install and run a vpn on linux? That's an honest question. You should at least try to keep your trolling on topic. I know it's new for you and you're having fun.
Yeah tried it once. Very easy, you find tons of tutorials online.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:57:03 AM
Yeah it is easy, I prefer it to windows, on windows you double click your vpn icon then click connect. You know this so I didn't take your question as honest.

@ Rayzor.
(https://s18.postimg.org/4ywbskrt5/1519675145398.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:58:34 AM
You know this so I didn't take your question as honest.
Perhaps that was exactely why my question was honest.  ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 27, 2018, 03:02:45 AM
Yeah it is easy, I prefer it to windows, on windows you double click your vpn icon then click connect. You know this so I didn't take your question as honest.


OpenBSD
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Badxtoss on February 27, 2018, 10:20:29 AM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)

No, we don't need to. He already is a hero. He stopped that bitch Killary from taking the mantle of the Oval office. America owes him a debt of gratitude
He's a disgrace, and the laughingstock of the world. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 27, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)

No, we don't need to. He already is a hero. He stopped that bitch Killary from taking the mantle of the Oval office. America owes him a debt of gratitude
He's a disgrace, and the laughingstock of the world. 

George W Bush was also the laughing stock of the world. He was a fool and a dimwit. And in my view Obama was a disgrace on many accounts. He was a disingenuous shit and was good at wordplay which of course the liberals love. He idolised the terrorist Nelson Mandela as if that racist murderer was some kind of hero and he did nothing to end the wars in the Middle East, rather he further inflamed them by facilitating the creation if ISIS which in turned sparked 'lone wolf' attacks which became problems across the world. Edward Snowden also busted his arse with the spying on the allies scandal which he would of course been fully versed and complicit in. You think Trump is a disgrace? Well so are all of your previous Presidents in modern memory. Need I remind of that rapist Bill Clinton as well as his affair with that Monica intern.

Honestly there is less scandal and drama watching your shit soapies like Bold and the Beautiful or Days of our Lives.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 27, 2018, 08:13:44 PM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Well this isn't really a refutation, this is just CNN saying "we didn't do it". Of course we can't really know for sure what happened unless the rest of the participants say something about it.

CNN published the email chain,  and it looks like it was Colton's father who wanted his son to make a long speech about school defence.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/02/23/scripted-controversy-cnn-releases-emails-of-correspondence-with-florida-student/?utm_term=.f98696d1001a

Here's a data point for those following the debate as it evolves.  Emma Gonzales now has more twitter followers than the NRA.

Colton's Father now had admitted to altering the email,  so Fox news once again,  got it wrong.

https://apnews.com/d986a439fb1549b4b38a301b19ef4d4d/Shooting-survivor's-father-admits-email-changes-in-CNN-spat
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:24:17 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:34:03 PM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 27, 2018, 08:54:25 PM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse

As an actual officer, what do you think should happen to them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 10:24:22 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Sources please.
Also mass shootings =/= school shootings.
Also you should consider that not all europe countries are involved in big anti terrorism stuff (which makes them a terrorism target), so some countries, e.g. denmark, norway, switzerland,... are quite safe, where as others like french are not as safe.

About the officer there: As far as I know, he thought that the shooter was outside (he said that in a phone call I think). So getting behind his car and wait for reinforcement was - from what I heared - what the protocol says to do in such a situation. I might be wrong here, also I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 11:58:31 PM
Facts, heh, statistics heh, A Jedi craves not these things.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 12:39:08 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 28, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
If you include the "terrorist" shootings I think he might be right. I'm not digging around for statistics atm but there's been a fair few shootings in the EU, it's just not as publicised as American shootings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 01:02:00 AM
If you include the "terrorist" shootings I think he might be right. I'm not digging around for statistics atm but there's been a fair few shootings in the EU, it's just not as publicised as American shootings.
No, I can confirm that there are just less shootings regardless of publicization. I think even if you count the terrorist shootings he's probably still wrong. Terrorists don't use guns that frequently anyways.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 28, 2018, 01:05:56 AM
Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 11:21:21 AM
Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.
It's based on experience mostly because it's hard to find a statistic for Europe as a whole. I'd have to compile all the data from different countries and I don't have the time right now. However referring to school shootings in particular (which was what I was initially referring to) it more than confirms my suspicion. The entire EU hasn't had nearly as many incidents as the US had.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 28, 2018, 12:07:34 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Statistically speaking, I'd like to see these statistics.  Can you link them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 28, 2018, 12:50:23 PM
He just came out of police academy so possibly they had the stats in class?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 12:55:50 PM
He just came out of police academy so possibly they had the stats in class?
That sounds pretty darn unlikely.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 28, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
I had some class where they told us gun injury is way more common in the us than in europe.
(of course that doesn't mean mass shootings only)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 28, 2018, 01:01:20 PM
How were the stats measured?

Per 100,000 people for example or all of the US, vs all of Europe (which would have more than twice the population of the US)

Interesting to know comparing how many were indiscriminate killings or criminals vs criminals.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 28, 2018, 01:05:50 PM

Vice magazine tracked all mass shootings across the US and Europe (including Russia, a total population twice that of the USA) for 2016.   The total death count for Europe was 53.   The total for the US was 392.  It's just one year, so it might not be representative, though I suspect it is.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xdwpwk/mass-shootings-in-the-united-states-and-europe-in-2016 (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xdwpwk/mass-shootings-in-the-united-states-and-europe-in-2016)
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016 (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016)

In terms of school shootings, the USA is a statistical outlier, without doubt.

Quote
A couple of years ago, the Academy for Critical Incident Analysis collected data on school violence around the world. They took a broad look at incidents where someone was killed, or a murder was attempted, and charted every one that had two or more victims. (Researchers left out "single homicides, off-campus homicides, killings caused by government actions, militaries, terrorists or militants." So, incidents like this one, where a U.S. airstrike in Syria accidentally hit a school and market and killed 30, are not included.)

Between 2000 and 2010, the recorded 57 incidents in 36 countries.

Half of those incidents — 28 — occurred in the United States.

That's all the more shocking when you consider that in 2010, the United States had about 309 million residents. The population of the other countries totaled 3.8 billion. It's worth noting, too, that 13 of those countries had never suffered a school massacre.

Violence in U.S. schools is much more likely be carried out by a gun, too. As Quartz explained about the study:

"In the vast majority of US killings, perpetrators used guns. By comparison, China — with the second-greatest number of incidents — saw 10 mass killings, but none involving firearms. Germany saw three mass shootings; Finland saw two. Thirteen other countries each saw one incident with at least one person being wounded or killed; in the rest nobody was reported as hurt."

There's evidence, too, that school violence is declining in other places. As my colleague explained this morning, "in Europe, there hasn't been a major high-casualty gun attack on a campus in almost a decade."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-america-school-shootings-20180215-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-america-school-shootings-20180215-story.html)

From 2010, but it's not like its suddenly improved in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 01:27:55 PM
Is there any statistics describing the ratio of sane to insane people perpetrating these crimes? I would guess it tilts toward insane.

This is not about how to keep firearms out of the hands of insane people,
it's about how to keep insane people away from society.
 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 28, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
This is not about how to keep firearms out of the hands of insane people,
it's about how to keep insane people away from society.
Give em guns and put them on a island?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 02:02:49 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 28, 2018, 02:04:56 PM
I think it's mentally lazy to just lump all mass shooters into the mental illness category.  Obviously there is something wrong with them to allow them to commit such atrocities. However, these people account for a small percentage of people dealing with mental illness, even the same illnesses in a lot of cases.  There must be some sort of differentiator which causes one person to do what hundreds others don't.

That argument also stops any other discussions dead in the tracks, as if it's possible to actually fix the mental illness issue. But the focus is put so much onto the mental illness issue that any other solutions are seen as bandaids and will ultimately be ineffective.

Tl;dr stop placing the onus on mental health.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 28, 2018, 02:09:53 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.
My only worry with Pence's plan is that court systems are already bogged down. I'm afraid these types of preventative cases would be disregarded or thrown out as frivolous. I like the idea of being able to legally confiscate from potentially dangerous people, but it's a fine line to walk in determining what constitutes potentially dangerous, legitimately dangerous, or just really terrible internet trolling.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 02:14:51 PM
Yeah, it's a huge job and needs careful consideration.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 03:13:56 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second)
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

That's how the creative process works. I've thrown in some pretty off the wall solutions in meetings over the years knowing they would never actually solve a problem. It gives other people the freedom to think out loud.

If you start out with limitations you will never get the best solution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 28, 2018, 03:17:35 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second)
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

That's how the creative process works. I've thrown in some pretty off the wall solutions in meetings over the years knowing they would never actually solve a problem. It gives other people the freedom to think out loud.

If you start out with limitations you will never get the best solution.

I can't really fault Trump for blurting something like that out.  They stuck a news crew where the sausage gets made.  A lot of ideas that need some more baking comes out there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 03:23:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXJ3udYX0AINzF0.jpg)

They need to stop doing this shit. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse

As an actual officer, what do you think should happen to them?

They should be fired for their cowardace and the sheriff should resign. 1 coward is one thing. You can have someone slip through the cracks, however when four deputies fail to enter, something is wrong with command.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:40:14 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Sources please.

Sure.

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q

Quote
Also mass shootings =/= school shootings.
Also you should consider that not all europe countries are involved in big anti terrorism stuff (which makes them a terrorism target), so some countries, e.g. denmark, norway, switzerland,... are quite safe, where as others like french are not as safe.

About the officer there: As far as I know, he thought that the shooter was outside (he said that in a phone call I think). So getting behind his car and wait for reinforcement was - from what I heared - what the protocol says to do in such a situation. I might be wrong here, also I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.
Even if he thought the shooting was outside, he should've gone towards the gun fire. Ever since Columbine, officers in most states including Florida teach that if backup is not immediately on scene, you should go in and neutralize the threat.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:41:12 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:43:20 PM
Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.

Technically I'm not a police officer. I'm with the auxiliary unit with my department. I don't have the same powers as a police officer as of now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 06:21:02 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 28, 2018, 06:22:29 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 28, 2018, 06:31:20 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1HMAAOSwLsBZQ8C-/s-l225.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 28, 2018, 06:33:55 PM
The more important question is:

(http://www.motivelab.com/wp-content/postimages/who-would-jesus-shoot.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 28, 2018, 06:35:07 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

What's with the crowns?   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on February 28, 2018, 06:41:11 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

What's with the crowns?

That looks both demented and sick
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 07:04:51 PM
I wonder if they are Moonies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 28, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1HMAAOSwLsBZQ8C-/s-l225.jpg)
Don't worry, I got it.
For the others, it's a nail gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 28, 2018, 07:12:05 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1HMAAOSwLsBZQ8C-/s-l225.jpg)
Don't worry, I got it.
For the others, it's a nail gun.

We can't let this technology get into the hands of the Romans. They'll crucify every messiah in a single afternoon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 07:42:56 PM
Limit them to staple guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on February 28, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 10:13:08 PM
Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?


Next thing will be you can't tie damsels-in-despair to rail road tracks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: TotesReptilian on February 28, 2018, 10:46:44 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ
I wonder if they are Moonies.

Found them, and yes, definitely Moonies. http://sanctuary-pa.org/

Quote
Welcome to the website of the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, also known as the Sanctuary Church of Newfoundland, PA!

Our pastor, Rev. Hyung Jin Moon, and his wife Rev. Yeon Ah Lee Moon, are the appointed heir/successor couple carrying on the providential work of his father, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, whose encounter with Jesus at age 15 led to his six decade worldwide ministry to fulfill Christ's mission, based on his Biblically based teachings, the Divine Principle.

...

Method to Multiply Holy Salt

1. Obtain the seed Holy Salt.

2. New salt needs to be purchased. Take a few grains of the seed Holy Salt and sprinkle on the newly purchased salt package or carton as soon as possible upon purchase.

3. Clean the environment to be used to multiply the Holy Salt. It is suggested to use a sheet of paper on a table or on the floor on which one mixes the salt piles.

4. Make one pile with the seed Holy Salt and make seven identical size piles of the new salt. All the piles should be of equal amounts.

5. Offer a prayer along these lines:
“I pray that this salt is sanctified and turned into Holy Salt. This I report in the name of the (family name) Blessed Central Family.”

Note: If the person praying has not received the Blessing ceremony, it is suggested he/she would then pray in the name of the Three Kingships.

6. Sprinkle the seed Holy Salt on each of the seven piles of new salt using your right hand.

7. Mix the seed Holy Salt into each of the seven piles.

8. Mix all the piles together.

9. Final prayer (optional).

Note: If only a small quantity of the original seed Holy Salt is available, perform the above multiplication procedure more than once, thus making a greater quantity from the original seed Holy Salt.

:-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 12:22:52 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXJ3udYX0AINzF0.jpg)

They need to stop doing this shit.

This is why some people think Trump has you on strings. If he called for banning semi auto rifles the entire media would immediately say we need more semi auto rifles. Sometimes I don't believe this timeline is real.

I support the US constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?

Yeah for the love of god don't follow our example.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 01, 2018, 12:26:46 AM

Method to Multiply Holy Salt

1. Obtain the seed Holy Salt.

2. New salt needs to be purchased. Take a few grains of the seed Holy Salt and sprinkle on the newly purchased salt package or carton as soon as possible upon purchase.

3. Clean the environment to be used to multiply the Holy Salt. It is suggested to use a sheet of paper on a table or on the floor on which one mixes the salt piles.

4. Make one pile with the seed Holy Salt and make seven identical size piles of the new salt. All the piles should be of equal amounts.

5. Offer a prayer along these lines:
“I pray that this salt is sanctified and turned into Holy Salt. This I report in the name of the (family name) Blessed Central Family.”

Note: If the person praying has not received the Blessing ceremony, it is suggested he/she would then pray in the name of the Three Kingships.

6. Sprinkle the seed Holy Salt on each of the seven piles of new salt using your right hand.

7. Mix the seed Holy Salt into each of the seven piles.

8. Mix all the piles together.

9. Final prayer (optional).

Note: If only a small quantity of the original seed Holy Salt is available, perform the above multiplication procedure more than once, thus making a greater quantity from the original seed Holy Salt.



Is this the BitCoin Manifesto?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 01:02:21 AM
That's pretty memeable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 01, 2018, 01:11:17 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right? If 1 shooting happens there it will glide up to the top of the chart in no time, with many countries not even having a single shooting in recent history. That doesn't say anything about Europe in general. Norway had 1 shooting and that's it. But it was extremely deadly and the population is low. Even if no shootings happen there for the next 10 years and the rate of shootings increases in the US it will still be way up there. I don't find it very surprising in France, because of the terrorist attacks, which is a different issue altogether, and countries like Albania and Macedonia are not ones I would call "advanced". If you really want a statistic that says anything, you'd have to compile data from all European countries and add them together, treating the whole of Europe as a single country. You can't compare countries 100 times smaller than the US with it for something as uncommon as mass shootings. It's like comparing individual states.

Btw Switzerland, Norway, Serbia and Belgium are some of the most armed countries in Europe. Belgium actually has similar gun laws to the US. Food for thought.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 01:12:24 AM
Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 01, 2018, 04:19:02 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right?

That's not even the issue.  This site is run by John Lott:

Quote
He has authored books such as More Guns, Less Crime, The Bias Against Guns, and Freedomnomics. He is best known as an advocate[1][2][3] in the gun rights debate, particularly his arguments against restrictions on owning and carrying guns. Newsweek referred to Lott as "The Gun Crowd's Guru."[4]
He's been caught lots of times, not just manipulating data but just plain making shit up.


Quote
Lott often claims that there is no difference between the frequency of public shootings in Europe and the United States. This is unabashedly false — but he continues to spread the falsehood anyway.

In February, he made the claim before the Tennessee Senate. “Most people may not realize this, but the rate of mass public shootings in Europe is actually fairly similar to the rate in the United States,” he said. “There is no statistically significant difference there, either in terms of the rate or fatalities.”

A couple of months earlier, he said something similar to the Washington Post, which quickly highlighted that his analysis was quite different from that of other experts in the field. As the Post noted, while Lott said the per capita rates of mass shootings in Europe and the United States were approximately the same, another researcher found the U.S. rate to be five times higher. The Post explained that the gulf between the results was due to Lott and the other researcher using different definitions.

But there is an even simpler explanation for the differing conclusions: Lott wasn’t being honest about his own findings.

While Lott claims the per capita rate in the United States and Europe are approximately the same, his own data tables tell a different story. Accepting his data at face value, between 2009 and 2015, the United States had 25 mass shootings versus 19 in the E.U. and 24 in Europe as a whole. This comes out as a rate of .078 shootings per million individuals in the United States, .038 for the E.U., and .032 for Europe as a whole. The United States has more than double the mass shooting rate of the E.U. and Europe, directly contradicting Lott’s statements about his own data.

Further, Lott’s carefully crafted criteria to include an incident as a mass shooting is highly suspect. Lott goes to great lengths to exclude mass shootings that are the result of burglaries and gang violence, but he includes terrorist attacks. This choice means that while the Texas biker gang gunfight last summer is excluded in his statistics, the November Paris attacks, which accounted for more than one-third of Europe’s mass shooting fatalities, are included.

However, when scholars study these mass shootings, they frequently exclude terrorist attacks from the analysis, for much the same reason Lott excludes burglaries and gang violence: the motivations are different. When researchers use a more appropriate set of criteria, the chasm between the rate of mass shootings in Europe and the United States widens even further. Researchers can also include all incidents of mass shootings (regardless of motivation) or use complex statistical analysis to determine whether the mass shooting difference between the United States and Europe is significant. The result remains the same — the United States fares far worse.

All of these methods point to the same conclusion: even if Lott wasn’t lying about his own results, his analysis would still be deeply flawed.

It also doesn't have anything to do with school shootings, which is the topic of discussion.  The USA is off the charts for that compared to other countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 01, 2018, 04:40:34 AM
Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?
How is that related to my post?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 01, 2018, 10:21:15 AM
Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?
Sure that it's not the guns doing the killing? I mean, do you find bullets in dead people or do you find 'other people' in them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 01, 2018, 10:25:20 AM
Are you kinkshaming?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 01, 2018, 10:35:29 AM
Oh wow, spacecow... really?
You trying to ant hill me?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 01, 2018, 01:35:42 PM
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 09:30:50 PM
The guns, dahnald.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 01, 2018, 10:16:52 PM
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

This could easily become my favorite retort.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on March 02, 2018, 02:28:09 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right? If 1 shooting happens there it will glide up to the top of the chart in no time, with many countries not even having a single shooting in recent history. That doesn't say anything about Europe in general. Norway had 1 shooting and that's it. But it was extremely deadly and the population is low. Even if no shootings happen there for the next 10 years and the rate of shootings increases in the US it will still be way up there. I don't find it very surprising in France, because of the terrorist attacks, which is a different issue altogether, and countries like Albania and Macedonia are not ones I would call "advanced". If you really want a statistic that says anything, you'd have to compile data from all European countries and add them together, treating the whole of Europe as a single country. You can't compare countries 100 times smaller than the US with it for something as uncommon as mass shootings. It's like comparing individual states.

Btw Switzerland, Norway, Serbia and Belgium are some of the most armed countries in Europe. Belgium actually has similar gun laws to the US. Food for thought.

That's why I said "statistically" and if I'm nkt mistaken one of the links did in fact compared the EU as a whole to the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 03, 2018, 12:44:30 AM
That's why I said "statistically"

But that's not what it showed, statistically.

Quote
if I'm nkt mistaken one of the links did in fact compared the EU as a whole to the US.

Yes, and while it says the EU had 27% more casualties per capita, his chart says the EU had 0.42 fatalities per million and the US had 0.65, but he just ignores that. And it includes terrorist attacks that weren't executed solely with guns. I can't look more deeply into this right now but this site seems pretty biased.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 03, 2018, 02:43:09 AM
And it includes terrorist attacks that weren't executed solely with guns. I can't look more deeply into this right now but this site seems pretty biased.
The guy who runs it has been done multiple times for just making shit up - and he plays lots of games with the presentation on that site.  Academic studies have shown mass shootings at a level 5 times higher in the US and the EU - and that guys own figures (if you look into them properly) show a significantly higher rate in the US.  He just lies about them.

It's also nothing to do with school shootings, which is what the thread is about, something where the USA is an off the chart outlier.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 03, 2018, 04:15:48 AM
That site is worse than a joke.
Example:
(https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2016-04-05-at-Tuesday-April-5-1.05-AM.png)

Rank 7 - Switzerland
--> Taking a look at the data he provided further down:
"Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament."

Wait what? The graph claims to use data from 2009-2015...
that site is all fake news and propaganda. Fuckig pathetic to use that site to make a point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 03, 2018, 06:09:42 AM
That site is worse than a joke.
Example:
(https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2016-04-05-at-Tuesday-April-5-1.05-AM.png)

Rank 7 - Switzerland
--> Taking a look at the data he provided further down:
"Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament."

Wait what? The graph claims to use data from 2009-2015...
that site is all fake news and propaganda. Fuckig pathetic to use that site to make a point.
No that data is used to make a different point. On the other hand I'm suspicious that he's used different definitions of "mass shooting", in that he's only kept indiscriminate shootings in his US stats, but he's used any shooting with 4 or more fatalities for Europe.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 03, 2018, 07:34:12 AM
He pretty much uses weird sources for most of his opinions. I mean, he gets his information about evolution from Answers in Genesis.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 03, 2018, 03:19:16 PM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/all-talk-no-bolt-action-gun-injuries-drop-during-nra-conventions/ lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on March 03, 2018, 08:12:10 PM
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

This could easily become my favorite retort.   

Yeah, I'm totally stealing that. This is why she is our MOM.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 04, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
A closer look at a wannabe mass shooter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/inside-a-teen-school-shooters-mind-a-plot-to-kill-50-or-60-if-i-get-lucky-maybe-150/2018/03/03/68cc673c-1b27-11e8-ae5a-16e60e4605f3_story.html?utm_term=.326467046ff9

His rampage ended in two people dead.  It probably didn't show up on anyone's radar because 2 dead in a school shooting apparently isn't big news now.  The reason it was only two was because he could only get his dad's handgun which jammed.  His father also had a semi automatic rifle which he had the good sense to lock up.  Well not that day actually.  Funny story.  That rifle was out of the gun safe.  The kid just didn't notice it.

I would be dishonest if I didn't point out how disturbingly similar his thoughts on the subject are to how I look at a game of Halo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 05, 2018, 06:04:26 AM
A closer look at a wannabe mass shooter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/inside-a-teen-school-shooters-mind-a-plot-to-kill-50-or-60-if-i-get-lucky-maybe-150/2018/03/03/68cc673c-1b27-11e8-ae5a-16e60e4605f3_story.html?utm_term=.326467046ff9

His rampage ended in two people dead.  It probably didn't show up on anyone's radar because 2 dead in a school shooting apparently isn't big news now.  The reason it was only two was because he could only get his dad's handgun which jammed.  His father also had a semi automatic rifle which he had the good sense to lock up.  Well not that day actually.  Funny story.  That rifle was out of the gun safe.  The kid just didn't notice it.

I would be dishonest if I didn't point out how disturbingly similar his thoughts on the subject are to how I look at a game of Halo.
Woah this kid is seriously fucked up. It's really disturbing how more recent school shooters almost make the Columbine shooters moral in comparison.

About the videogame thing, I definitely think people with these tendencies are attracted to them and often incorporate elements from them in their plans. However I don't buy for a moment that they generate these tendencies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 05, 2018, 06:14:43 AM

About the videogame thing, I definitely think people with these tendencies are attracted to them and often incorporate elements from them in their plans. However I don't buy for a moment that they generate these tendencies.

I don't either.  I believe there's actually been studies done that don't show a link.  That and the less murdery developed worlds also play video games at least as much as we do.  It's just another piece in the puzzle of understanding mass shooters.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 06:22:53 AM
Even if there was a small correlation, I don't think that would justify banning videogames.
I mean the correlation between driving a car and lowered life expectation is probably vastly higher than between videogames and lowered life expectation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 05, 2018, 08:02:06 AM
Hypothetically,

I wouldn't suggest something that ham-fisted in the event that there was correlation.

What I would suggest is studying it and figuring out why.

If a creative medium can incite bad behaviour then maybe if we understood why then it could be used to thwart bad behaviour.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 05, 2018, 10:30:51 AM
I don't think anyone thinks video games in general incite violence. But some people make the case for violent ones.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
Yeah when I said video games I of course meant violent ones. I thought that was obvious  ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 05, 2018, 10:42:10 AM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 10:46:12 AM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 05, 2018, 11:51:20 AM
I've played Hello Kitty Online all my life and I am a murderous psychopath.    Where does that leave us?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 05, 2018, 11:55:53 AM
I've killed countless zombies in the Resident Evil series, hordes of Covenant and Flood in Halo, legions of Geth and Reaper troops in Mass Effect, assloads of hookers in GTA, and look how I turned out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 05, 2018, 11:59:16 AM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.

How comprehensive!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 05, 2018, 12:21:40 PM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.

I've played Hello Kitty Online all my life and I am a murderous psychopath.    Where does that leave us?


RAP BATTLE !
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 05, 2018, 12:27:50 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 05, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
I've killed countless zombies in the Resident Evil series, hordes of Covenant and Flood in Halo, legions of Geth and Reaper troops in Mass Effect, assloads of hookers in GTA, and look how I turned out.

Good point. These games should be banned  ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 05, 2018, 01:48:15 PM
And I've literally slaughtered thousands of Chinese people in Dynasty Warriors 4 for PS2 so....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 05, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
My Grandpa smoked all his life and he's 90 years old and going strong.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 01:56:17 PM
My Grandpa smoked all his life and he's 90 years old and going strong.
Smoking decreases life expectation by quite a bit.
Exceptions are always existing. To base anything on those exceptions proves ignorance and pure stupidity.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 05, 2018, 02:21:38 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 05, 2018, 03:24:03 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.

I played Tetris once,  I got angry when I lost.  All video games should be banned.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 05, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.

I played Tetris once,  I got angry when I lost.  All video games should be banned.

Sore loser. Video games are awesome. I didn't know how gory the Witcher 3 combat was and my 4 year old was in the room. After killing someone in it for the first time my 4 year old said 'HIS HEAD FELL OFF!' lol. Whoops

Think I'll stick to that Disney 'Rush' game or the 'Cars 3' game he likes when he's around in future. I would have thought Tetris would be okay for him but looking how you turned out after losing a game I think I'll pass on that
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 05, 2018, 06:02:08 PM


Tremble before Satan's cupcakes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 05, 2018, 06:13:47 PM
Me thinks one of his writers is a crypto flat earther. They seem to think pancakes are very important.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 05, 2018, 06:23:01 PM
Pancakes are life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 05, 2018, 06:54:02 PM
My Grandpa smoked all his life and he's 90 years old and going strong.
Smoking decreases life expectation by quite a bit.
Exceptions are always existing. To base anything on those exceptions proves ignorance and pure stupidity.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/992/397/9c9.gif)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 06, 2018, 04:27:12 AM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.
There has to be something more than that. This didn't happen a few decades ago, and it still doesn't happen in other countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 06, 2018, 05:50:30 AM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.
There has to be something more than that. This didn't happen a few decades ago, and it still doesn't happen in other countries.

Another piece of the puzzle.  In the article that I linked to and that scg posted a few pages ago there's an interesting commonality, online mass shooter admiration communities.

There's a weird side effect of the internet bringing everyone together.  People have the option to hide from reality by finding like the only 10 other people on the planet that believe that same insane thing they do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 06, 2018, 06:27:42 AM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.
There has to be something more than that. This didn't happen a few decades ago, and it still doesn't happen in other countries.

Another piece of the puzzle.  In the article that I linked to and that scg posted a few pages ago there's an interesting commonality, online mass shooter admiration communities.

There's a weird side effect of the internet bringing everyone together.  People have the option to hide from reality by finding like the only 10 other people on the planet that believe that same insane thing they do.
Yeah I thought about that too... Seems that nutter discussed his plans in a community of nutters.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 06, 2018, 11:10:52 AM
I didn't know how gory the Witcher 3 combat was and my 4 year old was in the room.
Ha, my mate had the same thing with the Witcher 3 and his kid - except it was the fairly brutal swearing he picked up on as it blasted round his living room.  "Daddy, what's that man saying?"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 06, 2018, 02:04:07 PM
I didn't know how gory the Witcher 3 combat was and my 4 year old was in the room.
Ha, my mate had the same thing with the Witcher 3 and his kid - except it was the fairly brutal swearing he picked up on as it blasted round his living room.  "Daddy, what's that man saying?"

lol, I was playing Life is Strange and after a scene with lots of swearing my son says 'Fuck?' I said 'No no, DUCK. They were talking about ducks!' His innocence is getting ruined  :'(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 07, 2018, 02:18:45 AM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 07, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 08, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Yeah, but it's pretty lame.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 08, 2018, 12:16:20 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Yeah, but it's pretty lame.

Man, I downloaded the whole thing for like $6 on a sale. Not fussed. You wouldn't know if it was lame unless you looked into it yourself! How much did you lose on it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 08, 2018, 12:17:44 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Yeah, but it's pretty lame.

Man, I downloaded the whole thing for like $6 on a sale. Not fussed. You wouldn't know if it was lame unless you looked into it yourself! How much did you lose on it?
I didn't, but a friend did.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 12:17:52 PM
Gaming is for losers only.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:06:51 PM
Wesker is no loser.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
Wesker is no loser.

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.359928673.4089/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:27:07 PM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 08, 2018, 01:27:38 PM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)

No.  No he can't.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 01:28:23 PM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.359928673.4089/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
Wesker is not impressed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 01:44:04 PM
Wesker is not impressed.

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.359928673.4089/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:50:58 PM
Wesker thinks User likes DT45 more than Wesker does.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 09, 2018, 03:46:31 AM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
What has given you that idea?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 09, 2018, 03:52:12 AM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
What has given you that idea?
If I had to take a guess I'd say my general intellectual superiority paired with my astoundingly charismatic appearance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 09, 2018, 04:21:47 AM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
What has given you that idea?
If I had to take a guess I'd say my general intellectual superiority paired with my astoundingly charismatic appearance.
Could be that.

I think we'll leave it to future historians to judge.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 09, 2018, 04:43:49 AM
If I had to take a guess I'd say my general intellectual superiority paired with my astoundingly charismatic appearance.

I would think your self-deprecating modesty is your strongest feature.  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 14, 2018, 04:36:32 PM
http://www.ksbw.com/article/seaside-high-teacher-accidentally-fires-gun-in-class/19426017

A teacher who also serves as a reserve police officer accidentally fired a gun inside a Seaside High School classroom Tuesday, police said, and three students were injured.

Dennis Alexander was teaching a course about gun safety for his Administration of Justice class when his gun went off at 11 a.m.

Alexander was pointing his gun at the ceiling when it fired. Pieces of the ceiling fell to the ground.

A news release from the Seaside Police Department said no one suffered "serious injuries." One 17-year-old boy suffered moderate injuries when fragments from the bullet ricocheted off the ceiling and lodged into his neck, the student's father, Fermin Gonzales, told KSBW.

The teacher had just told the class that he wanted to make sure his gun wasn't loaded, when the gun fired, according to Gonzales.

"It's the craziest thing. It could have been very bad," Gonzales said.

The teacher was about to use the gun for a demonstration about how to disarm someone, according to Gonzales.

Everyone in the classroom was stunned, and the teacher, who is a reserve officer for the Sand City Police Department, apologized.

But no one at the school checked to make sure that all of the students were uninjured, Gonzales said. The school day resumed as normal.

The 17-year-old boy's parents were shocked when he returned home with blood on his shirt and bullet fragments in his neck. The student's parents rushed him to a hospital for X-rays.

"He's shaken up, but he's going to be OK," Gonzales told KSBW. "I'm just pretty upset that no one told us anything and we had to call the police ourselves to report it."

Alexander was placed on administrative leave from his teaching position at Seaside High School, and he was also placed on administrative leave at the Sand City Police Department.

Sand City Police Chief Brian Ferrante told KSBW, "I have concerns about why he was displaying a loaded firearm in a classroom. We will be looking into that."



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 05:10:33 PM

The teacher had just told the class that he wanted to make sure his gun wasn't loaded, when the gun fired, according to Gonzales.


Bernard "Barney" P. Milton Oliver Fife?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 14, 2018, 05:30:11 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 14, 2018, 05:48:56 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 05:51:43 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.


"See, kids? Rule #1 - always treat a gun as if it is loaded."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 05:53:59 PM
(2m:50s)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 06:10:50 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 14, 2018, 06:18:33 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 06:45:37 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.


It is effortless to point out potential problems with someone else's plan.
That's why so many people do it.

Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 08:24:38 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 14, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them

The student protests are the game changer this time around.  It will be interesting to see how that plays out over the next few years.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 08:52:02 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them


There is a reason why children don't get to make the rules.

So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

Does calling 000 or 112 in Australia guarantee a victims survival or just alert the police to the whereabouts of the crime scene.


BTW, you didn't offer a solution.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 14, 2018, 09:19:26 PM
So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

It's called self defence, and it is a right that everyone has.
Quote
With that said, each state has their own amendments when it comes to what constitutes as self defence. For example, under section 418(2) of the NSW Crimes Act 1900, a person is not guilty of an offence if they were:

(a) to defend himself or herself or another person, or (b) to prevent or terminate the unlawful deprivation of his or her liberty or the liberty of another person, or (c) to protect property from unlawful taking, destruction, damage or interference, or (d) to prevent criminal trespass to any land or premises or to remove a person committing any such criminal trespass, and the conduct is a reasonable response in the circumstances as he or she perceives them.


It doesn't automatically confer the right to kill an intruder,  that could be construed as excessive force.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 14, 2018, 09:40:14 PM
The answer to fixing the opiate addiction crisis is undoubtedly NOT to introduce more opiates to combat the bad opiates. You reduce access to opiates and look for alternatives. (I'm not suggesting new laws, I'm just saying you don't give a heroin addict oxycontin and say you did them a favor)

Same goes for alcoholism. The answer isn't getting more people to drink more alcohol.

Frequent absenteeism at work. You don't encourage more people to be late more often.

Why, with guns, do we say more people should have more guns to fix the problem? I'm ok with guns. My family hunts deer and moose (stahp it Moose, not you). I have been raised around them. But I don't think the NRAtv propaganda spots are useful. And I don't think Obama and Hillary are coming for my guns just because people want kids to stop dying at school. And I don't think it's wrong to have a system in place that asks a 19 year old to answer very carefully why he really feels he needs an assault style rifle, and maybe says no sometimes to the crazy aggressive guns that are always in the news. Ever tried asking a doctor for Percocets? They usually don't say "sure, there are other drugs that might work, but since you asked, let's just go ahead and make it happen."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 09:41:11 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them


There is a reason why children don't get to make the rules.

So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

Does calling 000 or 112 in Australia guarantee a victims survival or just alert the police to the whereabouts of the crime scene.


BTW, you didn't offer a solution.

Not my country, not my place to offer a solution. All I can 'offer' is direction. Not that it matters because I am not from your culture. I could very well think a lot differently had I been brought up in America. But I wasn't so my words are ignorant

I am not forbidden from protecting my life against an attack. And having a gun in the family is more likely to get you in trouble than not having one

http://www.newsweek.com/florida-gun-boy-shoots-mother-435175
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 09:41:48 PM
So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

It's called self defence, and it is a right that everyone has.
Quote
With that said, each state has their own amendments when it comes to what constitutes as self defence. For example, under section 418(2) of the NSW Crimes Act 1900, a person is not guilty of an offence if they were:

(a) to defend himself or herself or another person, or (b) to prevent or terminate the unlawful deprivation of his or her liberty or the liberty of another person, or (c) to protect property from unlawful taking, destruction, damage or interference, or (d) to prevent criminal trespass to any land or premises or to remove a person committing any such criminal trespass, and the conduct is a reasonable response in the circumstances as he or she perceives them.


It doesn't automatically confer the right to kill an intruder,  that could be construed as excessive force.

So you can have a weapon for no other reason than you feel like owning one?


If you find a drunk teenager crashed out on your couch you point your weapon and call 911.
If you find a masked intruder with a pillowcase full of your treasure you point the weapon at them and order them to their knees. If they run you follow them to the door. If they face you and disobey your commands you put two bullets in their chest.

You have no obligation to negotiate. If your intruder is not afraid of your defense, are you obligated to beg? Fuck that. They made a choice.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 09:49:48 PM
If you find a drunk teenager crashed out on your couch you point your weapon and call 911.

or you can do what this guy did

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38450038/intruder-tourist-sleeps-on-nz-fishermans-couch-in-mangawhai/

Quote
Gordon Pryor, 60, woke just before sunrise on Saturday to the sound of someone entering his unlocked rural home in Mangawhai.

He watched the young man settle down on the couch, pulling a bean bag over himself for warmth.


A New Zealand man left an intruder to sleep on his couch while posting pictures on Facebook to find out who he was. Source: Facebook

Rather than interrupt him, the homeowner let the young man sleep despite his eldest son, a policeman, informing him the visitor had broken the law.

He said it would have been easier to let the man stay rather than wake him and possibly face an argument.

The fisherman boiled a kettle and had a coffee and a piece of toast while he watched over the man.


Mr Pryor also took a few pictures to share to a couple local Facebook pages to see if anyone recognised him.

"Found this guy sleeping on my couch this am lol does anyone know him?" he wrote.

While nobody identified the sleeping man, the post received hundreds of positive comments from locals praising Mr Pryor for his kindness, while many parents checked their kids' rooms to see if they were missing anyone.


 
The intruder was laster identified as engineering student Louis Coetze who was visiting the region. Source: Facebook

“I’ve travelled the world a bit and you know a few things and you know your capabilities if you have to deal with somebody and if you need assistance.

"I wasn’t unduly concerned,” Mr Pryor told the New Zealand Herald.

The intruder turned out to be an engineering student visiting the region who had to walk to his destination after being dropped off by a shuttle bus.

Mr Pryor later updated the post to say: "Well guys we now know who he is. A good kid... just got a little lost lol."

The young man's mother has since thanked Mr Pryor for his kindness, the newspaper reported.

"Only in Mangawhai!" one person posted
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 10:04:36 PM
If you find a drunk teenager crashed out on your couch you point your weapon and call 911.

or you can do what this guy did

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38450038/intruder-tourist-sleeps-on-nz-fishermans-couch-in-mangawhai/

Quote
Gordon Pryor, 60, woke just before sunrise on Saturday to the sound of someone entering his unlocked rural home in Mangawhai.

He watched the young man settle down on the couch, pulling a bean bag over himself for warmth.


A New Zealand man left an intruder to sleep on his couch while posting pictures on Facebook to find out who he was. Source: Facebook

Rather than interrupt him, the homeowner let the young man sleep despite his eldest son, a policeman, informing him the visitor had broken the law.

He said it would have been easier to let the man stay rather than wake him and possibly face an argument.

The fisherman boiled a kettle and had a coffee and a piece of toast while he watched over the man.


Mr Pryor also took a few pictures to share to a couple local Facebook pages to see if anyone recognised him.

"Found this guy sleeping on my couch this am lol does anyone know him?" he wrote.

While nobody identified the sleeping man, the post received hundreds of positive comments from locals praising Mr Pryor for his kindness, while many parents checked their kids' rooms to see if they were missing anyone.


 
The intruder was laster identified as engineering student Louis Coetze who was visiting the region. Source: Facebook

“I’ve travelled the world a bit and you know a few things and you know your capabilities if you have to deal with somebody and if you need assistance.

"I wasn’t unduly concerned,” Mr Pryor told the New Zealand Herald.

The intruder turned out to be an engineering student visiting the region who had to walk to his destination after being dropped off by a shuttle bus.

Mr Pryor later updated the post to say: "Well guys we now know who he is. A good kid... just got a little lost lol."

The young man's mother has since thanked Mr Pryor for his kindness, the newspaper reported.

"Only in Mangawhai!" one person posted


Fishermen are reasonable people.  ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2018, 10:12:00 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 10:19:06 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you?

Quote
Concealed carry or carrying a concealed weapon, is the practice of carrying a weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in close proximity

Bottom line - Guns will be in school
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2018, 10:41:47 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you?

Quote
Concealed carry or carrying a concealed weapon, is the practice of carrying a weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in close proximity

Bottom line - Guns will be in school

How does one wrestle a concealed weapon away from an unsuspecting teacher if nobody knows who has a firearm and who does not?  Does the kid with a death wish just stomp the shit out of every teacher until he finds one with a pistol strapped to his leg?  In the area where I live, a high percentage of people often legally carry a concealed weapon and guess what, people are not attack by kids with a death wish trying to take their guns away from them, nor are children's fragile psyches damage by knowing that any grownup around them might be carrying a firearm, nor are properly concealed weapons attacking children randomly.  You make the worst arguments against arming teachers. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you?

Quote
Concealed carry or carrying a concealed weapon, is the practice of carrying a weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in close proximity

Bottom line - Guns will be in school

How does one wrestle a concealed weapon away from an unsuspecting teacher if nobody knows who has a firearm and who does not?  Does the kid with a death wish just stomp the shit out of every teacher until he finds one with a pistol strapped to his leg?  In the area where I live, a high percentage of people often legally carry a concealed weapon and guess what, people are not attack by kids with a death wish trying to take their guns away from them, nor are children's fragile psyches damage by knowing that any grownup around them might be carrying a firearm, nor are properly concealed weapons attacking children randomly.  You make the worst arguments against arming teachers.

I'm pretty sure the question of which teachers have a gun wont be the worlds best kept secret

And are schools prisons now? Are your teachers wardens? Who the fuck wants to go to school where your teachers have a gun? You call yourselves 'land of the free'. What a joke. You're slowly becoming a prison state

You guys brag about being the best country on Earth no end, but there are very few enviable reasons for anyone to want to go there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2018, 10:55:47 PM
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 14, 2018, 11:11:36 PM
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...

Whatever you say man. I'm happy that my country I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either. Happy that I can send my kids to school and not even consider them being slaughtered and taking their bullet ridden body home in a box. That makes me really happy. God has blessed Australia  ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 12:03:00 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how? 


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 15, 2018, 12:16:15 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 12:46:23 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.

I am disabled. I can't fight or run away.
I guess if a stern disapproving look doesn't work I'm fucked?

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 15, 2018, 01:10:53 AM
I am disabled.
Mentally?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 01:30:59 AM
I am disabled.
Mentally?

20/90  mental/physical
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 15, 2018, 01:39:57 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.


Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 15, 2018, 01:45:29 AM
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...

Thank you for that post. It perfectly represents what's wrong with the american mentality.

Pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 15, 2018, 01:47:36 AM
Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?

No, they are very clear on not being able to defend yourself or your property here.

Only the all powerful state may defend people and property.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 15, 2018, 01:53:06 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.


Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

Would you agree allowing almost anyone to purchase semi automatic military grade weapons in the first place is part of the problem?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 02:02:24 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 15, 2018, 02:32:50 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 02:51:35 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   


You could 'alter his thought process' if you're a really good shot.   :o
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 15, 2018, 03:01:58 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   


You could 'alter his thought process' if you're a really good shot.   :o

I shot a 9mm Glock a few weeks back,  piece of crap, I couldn't hit a door at 25 yards,   A S&W 357 Magnum revolver, I could hit the door knob.   But if it comes to intruders,  a cricket bat works well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: deadsirius on March 15, 2018, 06:30:37 AM

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


So hard to understand why so many people don't get this.

I saw it phrased somewhere earlier pretty well:  this is probably the only time we've had youth marching in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away.  It's scary.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 15, 2018, 07:40:42 AM
I think the right to be shot at school is overrated.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 15, 2018, 07:50:39 AM
It's an inalienable right. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on March 15, 2018, 08:15:15 AM
Since Parkland we have had one teacher leave a pistol where students could get to it, I believe a student actually found it in the empty classroom and turned it in, another lock himself in his class and threaten harm with a gun if anyone tried to come in, and now a teacher discharging a gun accidentally while in class.

Those are the reasons I don't like the idea of arming teachers.  I'd rather see a ban on civilian versions of military rifles, raising the buying age to 21, stricter background checks, universal background checks, and law enforcement ability to open competency investigations on those who are suspected of causing harm in the future (through reporting, self proclamation, etc.)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 15, 2018, 08:19:48 AM

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


So hard to understand why so many people don't get this.

I saw it phrased somewhere earlier pretty well:  this is probably the only time we've had youth marching in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away.  It's scary.
Do you know how many "rights" you've given up in order to live inside a society? People decide some rights are worth giving up to protect others and thus laws are made. No one wants to interfere with your right to defend yourself. The issue is with guns. The only explanation I have for the American fixation on guns is the NRA brainwashing you people. What's scary is that people think the right to own guns is so important you can put it above the right to life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 15, 2018, 09:29:46 AM
Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?

Some ideas. 

The easy one, copy whatever every developed nation is doing where they get much better results than we do.  That might be untenable since our Constitution guarantees it as a right and not a privilege.

The more difficult ones;
Universal background checks.
In addition to domestic violence there's a number of other crimes that are strong predictors of violent behavior, like excessive cruelty to animals.  Make those convicted of these crimes ineligible to buy a firearm.
Raise the age to buy any firearm to 21.
Ban assault style weapons like the AR-15(I don't know if that would help).
3 day waiting periods for any gun(I also don't know how much that helps).
Fund the CDC to study gun violence.
These school shooters tend to visit websites where they idolize other school shooters.  Get the FBI to monitor those sites.
Make it mandatory to secure your guns with a lock(this might already be a law).
Put a tax on guns and use it to fund ad campaigns for basic gun safety.
Modify future designs of schools in such a way that makes mass shootings more difficult.

I really don't think arming teachers is a good ideas just because teaching is its own profession and being a SWAT officer is its own profession and there's so little overlap between the two that I don't there'd be enough of them to do any good.  It's a policy that's more likely to increase the incidents of careless idiots leaving guns in their desks.
 A lot of the talk I'm hearing out of the powers that be seem to be focusing on just school shootings.  It's like they forgot about the Vegas massacre and that Texas church massacre.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 15, 2018, 09:42:07 AM
Get Americans to lose their " shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more, and then when everybody's dead start asking questions" mentality.

Seriously, things don't have to escalate to a gunfight right away.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: TotesReptilian on March 15, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?

Some ideas. 

...

I remember a previous discussion where several people mentioned being Hardcore History (Dan Carlin) fans, so I'm going to draw from something he said in one of his episodes on the Mongols. An obvious goal of medieval warfare was to surround your enemy. Sometimes this results in surrender, but sometimes this results in the enemy digging in and fighting to the last man. Not fun. A common tactic that the Mongols liked to use was to intentionally create a small opening for the enemy to escape through. This resulted in a disjointed retreat that was easier to deal with than a dug-in enemy. They essentially created a pressure release valve.

It strikes me that these shooters often see themselves as the enemy of society. Surrounded by a society that they hate and that hates them. The pressure builds up and up and up until there is an explosive pressure release in the form of a mass shooting. Most solutions given tend to revolve around plugging that specific release vector. This is obviously important, but the pressure will still be there, and will find a different outlet eventually.

I think the ultimate solution involves building an easier-to-handle pressure release into society that triggers before something drastic happens. Or finding ways to prevent the build up completely. This requires actual research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996)

I know this was super vague and mostly useless. This isn't really an area of knowledge/interest for me. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 15, 2018, 12:08:23 PM
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 15, 2018, 12:29:38 PM
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Seriously, I don't understand how some people cannot see this. It's so obvious; people tick out every once in a while. And if they have a gun at hand ... umm could end badly!
The husband of an aunt of mine had a severe depression/burnout. After treatement, he said that if he had a gun with ammo at home, he would have shot himself when he was at his worst mental state (obviously not the same as shooting others, but you get the point).

Anyway, if I have kids one day, I 100% certainly will not let them attend a school with armed teachers and armed personnel.


About the 'but I'ma need a gun for protheectinn mah hoome!':
I bet the risk that you shoot someone you actually know (or an unarmed person in general) unintentionally is way higher than you actually stopping a armed robber in your home... Also, you having a gun in your hand makes the risk of you getting shot waaay higher if the robber spots you first.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 15, 2018, 01:21:01 PM
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Seriously, I don't understand how some people cannot see this. It's so obvious; people tick out every once in a while. And if they have a gun at hand ... umm could end badly!
The husband of an aunt of mine had a severe depression/burnout. After treatement, he said that if he had a gun with ammo at home, he would have shot himself when he was at his worst mental state (obviously not the same as shooting others, but you get the point).

Anyway, if I have kids one they, I 100% certainly will not let them attend a school with armed teachers and armed personel.


About the 'but I'ma need a gun for protheectinn mah hoome!':
I bet the risk that you shoot someone you actually know (or an unarmed person in general) unintentionally is way higher than you actually stopping a armed robber in your home... Also, you having a gun in your hand makes the risk of you getting shot waaay higher if the robber spots you first.

Agree with da Swede. :o How many times has someone ended up shooting their own partner when they come home in the middle of the night because they were 'spooked' while in a half awake/asleep state. Or how many times has a kid found it and played with it resulting in killing them selves or their siblings

The idea of defending yourself at home but the law requires you to have you gun locked in a safe is kind of ridiculous. No one is going to do that. So a robber comes in and you have to say 'hold up! I just need to get my gun out of the safe!'. Not going to happen. Probably have it fully loaded on a bedside table.

I'm not sure how you can say on one hand you are the land of the free, but on the other hand have to sleep with a loaded gun each night for protection.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 15, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
I'm not sure how you can say on one hand you are the land of the free, but on the other hand have to sleep with a loaded gun each night for protection.

Good one! lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: deadsirius on March 15, 2018, 01:48:58 PM
One great thing about America is everyone is also free to not have guns.

Personally I'd shoot anyone who tried to force me to have a gun
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 15, 2018, 06:34:30 PM
One great thing about America is everyone is also free to not have guns.

Personally I'd shoot anyone who tried to force me to have a gun

LOL. 

The inverse question is the more important,  what happens when a law is passed requiring everyone to hand in their assault rifles?

Do they start shooting?   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 16, 2018, 12:13:23 AM
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 16, 2018, 04:11:56 AM
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
So you'd start shooting people because your grandpa liked guns? Um, I'm not sure I follow...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 16, 2018, 11:15:23 AM
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
So you'd start shooting people because your grandpa liked guns? Um, I'm not sure I follow...
It's 4chan logic.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 16, 2018, 09:56:51 PM
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 17, 2018, 05:13:56 AM
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Do you shoot people every time a law you don't like is passed? And I get wanting to defend your family and yourself etc., but your guns? You'd shoot someone because he wants to take your gun? Would you shoot someone for trying to get your fridge or something? Oh wait, bad example, fridges are much more useful and vital than assault rifles.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 05:24:08 AM
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Do you shoot people every time a law you don't like is passed? And I get wanting to defend your family and yourself etc., but your guns? You'd shoot someone because he wants to take your gun? Would you shoot someone for trying to get your fridge or something? Oh wait, bad example, fridges are much more useful and vital than assault rifles.
The joke is, he'd shoot the officer trying to enforce the law, that had absolutely nothing to do with passing the law and is just trying to enforce the law. And that officer probably has a family at home...

Anyway, I'm sure he wouldn't actually shoot anyone in real life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 06:00:05 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 17, 2018, 06:03:18 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 17, 2018, 06:36:31 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.

To change the American constitution it would take 2/3 of ths states to be on board with it. I doubt that will happen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 06:36:55 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.

I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Ours has a special set of clauses that specifically limit government's power over the population. Government is specifically forbidden to pass specific laws.

We may be holding on to antiquated idealism, beats the fuck out of Iran's government.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 06:40:40 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.

To change the American constitution it would take 2/3 of ths states to be on board with it. I doubt that will happen.

The world and many Americans don't understand the USofA is a collection of 50 semi-independent countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 07:10:32 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 07:36:43 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 08:08:49 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 09:07:14 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf (http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf)

Better not be more than three pages.  ;D


I'll read it and get back to you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 09:23:03 AM
Aw, fuck, it's more than three pages.   ;D

I'll finish reading the document. Like any important document, it can't be digested all at once.
At least I can't consume it in one chunk. Give me a day and a half or three. I think that is fair.

Is there a part that I should pay special attention to?

Also, can you give me a link to your national anthem?
Ours is average, the Marseillaise is awesome.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 09:27:55 AM
Aw, fuck, it's more than three pages.   ;D

I'll finish reading the document. Like any important document, it can't be digested all at once.
At least I can't consume it in one chunk. Give me a day and a half or three. I think that is fair.

Is there a part that I should pay special attention to?

Also, can you give me a link to your national anthem?
Ours is average, the Marseillaise is awesome.
You got 24h.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 09:37:09 AM
Aw, fuck, it's more than three pages.   ;D

I'll finish reading the document. Like any important document, it can't be digested all at once.
At least I can't consume it in one chunk. Give me a day and a half or three. I think that is fair.

Is there a part that I should pay special attention to?

Also, can you give me a link to your national anthem?
Ours is average, the Marseillaise is awesome.
You got 24h.




If i was standing next to you I would feel your pride.
And the pride of others standing nearby.

Why is your anthem in a foreign language?   ;D     



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 17, 2018, 02:04:24 PM
Marseillaise is awesome.

If you like blood, guts & gore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 17, 2018, 02:05:49 PM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf

70 goddamn pages! Are you people even allowed to urinate?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 02:07:07 PM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf

70 goddamn pages! Are you people even allowed to urinate?
Not everyone is an illiterate american.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 17, 2018, 06:35:02 PM
70 pages required for dumbing down and explaining everything like you would a baby 5-6 times. I guess Sweden trying to be inclusive of everyone also made sure the constitution of every other poor country is in there do as to avoid looking mean and discriminatory
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 18, 2018, 12:04:37 AM
70 pages required for dumbing down and explaining everything like you would a baby 5-6 times. I guess Sweden trying to be inclusive of everyone also made sure the constitution of every other poor country is in there do as to avoid looking mean and discriminatory
You've read it?
Or is it just some more shittler mental vomit?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 18, 2018, 02:38:19 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Ours has a special set of clauses that specifically limit government's power over the population. Government is specifically forbidden to pass specific laws.
Yes, that's just like most countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 18, 2018, 02:49:18 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Ours has a special set of clauses that specifically limit government's power over the population. Government is specifically forbidden to pass specific laws.
Yes, that's just like most countries.


Yet, there are first world countries where it is illegal to say things that hurt other peoples feelings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 18, 2018, 03:53:42 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf

70 goddamn pages! Are you people even allowed to urinate?

Ours is twice that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 18, 2018, 04:01:16 AM
Actually they're about the same, maybe ours is actually smaller, it's just that it has really short pages...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on March 18, 2018, 05:01:49 AM
Just to save you some time, nothing in Sweden's constitution prohibits the government's ability to pass gun or weapon laws, in any way.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 18, 2018, 02:59:50 PM
70 pages required for dumbing down and explaining everything like you would a baby 5-6 times. I guess Sweden trying to be inclusive of everyone also made sure the constitution of every other poor country is in there do as to avoid looking mean and discriminatory
You've read it?
Or is it just some more shittler mental vomit?

The 2nd one
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 19, 2018, 01:17:05 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

At this point I am not sure if they are trolling or serious when they ask us what we are doing awake at this time.

It wouldn't be funny otherwise.

Never change greatest ally.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jaoheah on March 25, 2018, 06:35:44 AM
The next president should change the constitution and make guns illegal even for cops. The USA is the only country with School shootings. Want to know why? Guns are legal. Simple right? The founding fathers did not expect us to have an AK-47 or an AR-15. Back then there where only musket guns. If they knew there would be AK-47's or AR-15's they would have prolly not put that into the constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 25, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZF1R3dX0AMpX-9.jpg)

Utah.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on March 25, 2018, 05:25:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZF1R3dX0AMpX-9.jpg)

Utah.

LOL  Deer season open already?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 25, 2018, 05:51:12 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZF1R3dX0AMpX-9.jpg)

Utah.

LOL  Deer season open already?

I don't care what side of the fence people are on but using children in propaganda shit like this is just sick.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 01, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
The next president should change the constitution and make guns illegal even for cops. The USA is the only country with School shootings. Want to know why? Guns are legal. Simple right? The founding fathers did not expect us to have an AK-47 or an AR-15. Back then there where only musket guns. If they knew there would be AK-47's or AR-15's they would have prolly not put that into the constitution.

First off, try confiscating over 400 million guns out of the hands of those that say "come and take it." Second, multi shot firearms existed prior to the constitution. And finally, they had cannons back then.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 01, 2018, 09:20:49 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZF1R3dX0AMpX-9.jpg)

Utah.

I want that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 01, 2018, 11:43:30 AM
You could probably find some hick town police force down here with one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 01, 2018, 11:48:48 AM
The next president should change the constitution and make guns illegal even for cops. The USA is the only country with School shootings. Want to know why? Guns are legal. Simple right? The founding fathers did not expect us to have an AK-47 or an AR-15. Back then there where only musket guns. If they knew there would be AK-47's or AR-15's they would have prolly not put that into the constitution.

 Second, multi shot firearms existed prior to the constitution. And finally, they had cannons back then.

Technically. But none of those were very portable. The puckle gun was meant to be mounted to a ship.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 01, 2018, 12:44:02 PM
The next president should change the constitution and make guns illegal even for cops. The USA is the only country with School shootings. Want to know why? Guns are legal. Simple right? The founding fathers did not expect us to have an AK-47 or an AR-15. Back then there where only musket guns. If they knew there would be AK-47's or AR-15's they would have prolly not put that into the constitution.

 Second, multi shot firearms existed prior to the constitution. And finally, they had cannons back then.

Technically. But none of those were very portable. The puckle gun was meant to be mounted to a ship.

There was the pepperbox flinlock. Even if that didn't exist, It's not that big of a mental jump to think that something like the Puckle gun could one day fit in a man's hand.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 22, 2018, 11:58:04 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/22/us/waffle-house-shooting-what-we-know/index.html

Another one.  A lot less destruction than usually but still has a few interesting things about it.

First, the shooter was one of those crazy people that tried to jump the gate in the White House.  They actually seized his guns but then gave them back because, you know, second amendment.  Oh and the shooter was naked.

Second, at some point his gun was having malfunctions and some guy though to himself, "hey, he's going to try to kill me anyways.   I'm going to rush this mother fucker."  And that's exactly what he did.

I really hope that in a crisis situation I would have done the same thing.  I hope I'm not like most people who would have bolted out the door or stayed there and patiently waited for him to kill me.  With any luck I won't have to find out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 23, 2018, 12:46:19 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/22/us/waffle-house-shooting-what-we-know/index.html

Another one.  A lot less destruction than usually but still has a few interesting things about it.

First, the shooter was one of those crazy people that tried to jump the gate in the White House.  They actually seized his guns but then gave them back because, you know, second amendment.  Oh and the shooter was naked.

Second, at some point his gun was having malfunctions and some guy though to himself, "hey, he's going to try to kill me anyways.   I'm going to rush this mother fucker."  And that's exactly what he did.

I really hope that in a crisis situation I would have done the same thing.  I hope I'm not like most people who would have bolted out the door or stayed there and patiently waited for him to kill me.  With any luck I won't have to find out.

You live in America. Luck is most definitely needed. Good luck!  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on April 23, 2018, 03:30:47 AM
"In May 2016, Reinking experienced a delusional episode in his hometown of Morton, according to a police report. He told first responders that he believed pop star Taylor Swift was stalking him."

Wait, he thought Taylor Swift was stalking HIM? Uh... what?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on April 23, 2018, 04:50:59 AM
Wait, he thought Taylor Swift was stalking HIM? Uh... what?
This did actually happen to me, so I sympathise.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 23, 2018, 07:14:17 AM
I think maybe this is one of those gun control issues both sides could find something to agree upon. If this guy isn't mentally deranged enough to have his gun rights removed, then who is? I realize that if he's captured alive he will be a felon and will lose them, but I mean before. He clearly had a long history of mental illness.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 23, 2018, 07:59:28 AM
I don't know.  I think some of the blame must be shared by Taylor Swift.  She is suspiciously silent about this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 23, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
Taylor Swift will save us all.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 23, 2018, 11:21:14 AM
Actual CBS headline: "Nashville Waffle House Shooting: Police say Travis Reinking shows signs of 'significant instability'"

Well NO SHIT, ya don't say? The half naked man that shot up a waffle house might have had a couple of screws loose??

Sigh. Looks like they caught him, at least.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on April 23, 2018, 01:30:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZF1R3dX0AMpX-9.jpg)

Utah.

I want that.
An American flag harpoon launcher.  Take that you damned commie bastards.  >:(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on April 23, 2018, 02:23:19 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZF1R3dX0AMpX-9.jpg)

Utah.

I want that.
An American flag harpoon launcher.  Take that you damned commie bastards.  >:(

To be honest, criminals do love gun control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on April 23, 2018, 02:24:08 PM
I blame guns.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/toronto-fire-says-numerous-casualties-vehicle-hits-crowd-182502742.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 24, 2018, 01:33:57 AM
I think maybe this is one of those gun control issues both sides could find something to agree upon. If this guy isn't mentally deranged enough to have his gun rights removed, then who is? I realize that if he's captured alive he will be a felon and will lose them, but I mean before. He clearly had a long history of mental illness.

He already had his firearms removed when he jumped the fence at the White House. SS gave the guns to his father who then gave it back to the shooter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on April 24, 2018, 04:23:38 AM
I think maybe this is one of those gun control issues both sides could find something to agree upon. If this guy isn't mentally deranged enough to have his gun rights removed, then who is? I realize that if he's captured alive he will be a felon and will lose them, but I mean before. He clearly had a long history of mental illness.

He already had his firearms removed when he jumped the fence at the White House. SS gave the guns to his father who then gave it back to the shooter.
That makes it even dumber.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 24, 2018, 09:11:36 AM
They took his guns, but did he lose his right to have them, or was that just temporary? If he'd lost his right to have them, then his father should be in some trouble.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on April 24, 2018, 09:28:10 AM
his father should be in some trouble.
This is most likely correct. I don't know if he is in trouble or not, but he probably should be. He was allowed to keep the guns because he qualified as a responsible gun owner. Giving them back to his son or letting his son have access to them was not the actions of a qualified gun owner. The only way he shouldn't be in trouble is if he was storing them in accordance with the law and his son stole them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 25, 2018, 10:40:12 PM
They took his guns, but did he lose his right to have them, or was that just temporary? If he'd lost his right to have them, then his father should be in some trouble.

I imagine if the SS takes your guns when they aren't related to the crime committed, I doubt it's just a time out or something.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 26, 2018, 08:10:16 AM
They took his guns, but did he lose his right to have them, or was that just temporary? If he'd lost his right to have them, then his father should be in some trouble.

I imagine if the SS takes your guns when they aren't related to the crime committed, I doubt it's just a time out or something.

It doesn't matter who takes the guns away from him at the time, if he wasn't charged with a felony for trying to climb the fence at the WH then he couldn't have lost his right to keep and bear arms.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on April 26, 2018, 12:46:35 PM
They took his guns, but did he lose his right to have them, or was that just temporary? If he'd lost his right to have them, then his father should be in some trouble.

I imagine if the SS takes your guns when they aren't related to the crime committed, I doubt it's just a time out or something.

It doesn't matter who takes the guns away from him at the time, if he wasn't charged with a felony for trying to climb the fence at the WH then he couldn't have lost his right to keep and bear arms.

Unless that was part of an agreement not to prosecute? I don't know, just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on April 27, 2018, 03:52:58 AM
For the record, the second amendment is a single sentence: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The founders' repeatedly expressed their intent was to create one more check/balance to potentially allow states to overthrow a tyrannical federal government. This is consistent with the first 10 amendments to the Constitution all placing limits on the powers of the new federal government.

Pretty early on, the Supreme Court was forced to settle whether or not the right to bear arms included civilians. Since its earliest ruling, the Supreme Court held that American citizens had no inherent right to bear arms under the Second Ammendment. They officially interpreted the second amendment to extend gun ownership rights to people only under the context of contributing to the common defense against tyranny. Civilians had a civic duty to overthrow a corrupt government. For over 200 years the U.S. Supreme Court consistently ruled that the Second Amendment did not grant individual gun ownership outside the context of a militia. Four distinct occasions mark these rulings:

(Selective v. Total Incorporation - Ongoing series),
(United States vs. Cruikshank 1875),
(Presser v. Illinois 1886),
(United States v. Miller 1939)

This understanding that guns were for only the "common defense" was only overturned recently during the District of Columbia v. Heller case in 2008. It's just this last decade of NRA lobbying that the supreme court started saying that the second amendment grants gun rights for "personal defense".


Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.
[...]
Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
Depends. Essentially any laws can be passed as long as the judiciary branch doesn't intervene to interpret the laws as unconstitutional during Judicial Review (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_States). I suspect any legislation over gun control would get plenty of attention, but the notion of "gun control" has been constantly reaffirmed as constitutional.

For example, AR-15s and AK-47s were banned from 1994-2004 without any amendments being passed.

Still, we can entertain the hypothetical scenario in which a gun control law was passed that you considered unconstitutional. In that case, then you (as a civilian) could sue the government.*

If the court ruled the legislation was unconstitutional, only then the law would be revoked. Alternatively, if the supreme court didn't conclude the law was unconstitutional, then technically no constitutional amendment was needed. As the first part of my post covers, interpretive constitutional protections of "self defense tools" is extremely new, and is a product of flipping court interpretations-- no amendments needed.

To summarize, whether or not an amendment is needed depends entirely on the specifics of the proposed law and the whims of the judicial interpretation.

*State sovereign immunity (aka the inability to sue the government) does not extend (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States#State_actions_in_violation_of_the_US_or_state_Constitution) to cases in which the government is accused of violating the constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 27, 2018, 04:14:44 AM
For the record, the second amendment is a single sentence: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The founders' repeatedly expressed their intent was to create one more check/balance to potentially allow states to overthrow a tyrannical federal government. This is consistent with the first 10 amendments to the Constitution all placing limits on the powers of the new federal government.

Pretty early on, the Supreme Court was forced to settle whether or not the right to bear arms included civilians. Since its earliest ruling, the Supreme Court held that American citizens had no inherent right to bear arms under the Second Ammendment. They officially interpreted the second amendment to extend gun ownership rights to people only under the context of contributing to the common defense against tyranny. Civilians had a civic duty to overthrow a corrupt government. For over 200 years the U.S. Supreme Court consistently ruled that the Second Amendment did not grant individual gun ownership outside the context of a militia. Four distinct occasions mark these rulings:

(Selective v. Total Incorporation - Ongoing series),
(United States vs. Cruikshank 1875),
(Presser v. Illinois 1886),
(United States v. Miller 1939)

The first ruling, to me, reads that private citizens can bar you from being armed on their private property. The second ruling only mentions that assembling as a militia can be subject to state legislation. It didn't say that citizens don't have individual rights to keep and bear arms.
Quote
This understanding that guns were for only the "common defense" was only overturned recently during the District of Columbia v. Heller case in 2008. It's just this last decade of NRA lobbying that the supreme court started saying that the second amendment grants gun rights for "personal defense".

Evidence?

Quote
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.
[...]
Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
Depends. Essentially any laws can be passed as long as the judiciary branch doesn't intervene to interpret the laws as unconstitutional during Judicial Review (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_States). I suspect any legislation over gun control would get plenty of attention, but the notion of "gun control" has been constantly reaffirmed as constitutional.

For example, AR-15s and AK-47s were banned from 1994-2004 without any amendments being passed.

Still, we can entertain the hypothetical scenario in which a gun control law was passed that you considered unconstitutional. In that case, then you (as a civilian) could sue the government.*

If the court ruled the legislation was unconstitutional, only then the law would be revoked. Alternatively, if the supreme court didn't conclude the law was unconstitutional, then technically no constitutional amendment was needed. As the first part of my post covers, interpretive constitutional protections of "self defense tools" is extremely new, and is a product of flipping court interpretations-- no amendments needed.

To summarize, whether or not an amendment is needed depends entirely on the specifics of the proposed law and the whims of the judicial interpretation.

*State sovereign immunity (aka the inability to sue the government) does not extend (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States#State_actions_in_violation_of_the_US_or_state_Constitution) to cases in which the government is accused of violating the constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on April 27, 2018, 05:42:31 AM
(Selective v. Total Incorporation - Expansive Series),
The first ruling, to me, reads that private citizens can bar you from being armed on their private property.
The first entry is referencing a series of cases about whether or not the Bill of Rights was selectively applied at the state and local levels of government. In the century after the Bill of rights was ratified, the vast majority of regulation was done by states, and the first case law on weapons regulation dealt with state interpretations of the Second Amendment. 44 states have chosen to explicitly embody a right to bear arms into their state constitutions.

1. As rights of the states interpretations argued, civilians DID NOT have constitutional gun rights and only people on duty in official state militias were granted guns rights.
2. The standard model argued civilians DID have a right to own guns, but only the type of arms that are useful for militia service. 19th-century state supreme court cases frequently referenced the "civilized warfare" test. This is the model that won out.

Examples of those many rulings are here (http://www.davekopel.org/2A/Mags/The-Second-Amendment-Before-the-Supreme-Court.htm).

(United States vs. Cruikshank 1875),
The second ruling only mentions that assembling as a militia can be subject to state legislation. It didn't say that citizens don't have individual rights to keep and bear arms.
Perhaps I should have gone into more detail. I shouldn't expect other people to dig through court notes, but I was just worried that too many citations and explanations would bloat an already long post. The Court Opinion clearly stated the "Second Amendment has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/92/542.html)" again deferring to the context of the state militias.

Evidence?
Here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9a710a84d23)'s a John Paul Stevens excerpt (Associate Justice of the SCOTUS 1975-2010) hosted under the Washington Post.

For good measure, here (https://ammo.com/articles/second-amendment-supreme-court-cases-guide)'s a gun advocate site that sells ammunition. It has this history page, which closely echos my list and condemns the long history of rulings for the same reasons I listed. We are both are pointing to the recent changes in rulings, but this site's motivation is to point out what it deems as "progress".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on April 28, 2018, 07:49:03 AM
(Selective v. Total Incorporation - Expansive Series),
The first ruling, to me, reads that private citizens can bar you from being armed on their private property.
The first entry is referencing a series of cases about whether or not the Bill of Rights was selectively applied at the state and local levels of government. In the century after the Bill of rights was ratified, the vast majority of regulation was done by states, and the first case law on weapons regulation dealt with state interpretations of the Second Amendment. 44 states have chosen to explicitly embody a right to bear arms into their state constitutions.

Actually I was speaking of the ruling under that as when I googled this ruling, all I found was unrelated articles dealing with mathematical theories or something of that nature.
Quote
1. As rights of the states interpretations argued, civilians DID NOT have constitutional gun rights and only people on duty in official state militias were granted guns rights.
2. The standard model argued civilians DID have a right to own guns, but only the type of arms that are useful for militia service. 19th-century state supreme court cases frequently referenced the "civilized warfare" test. This is the model that won out.

Examples of those many rulings are here (http://www.davekopel.org/2A/Mags/The-Second-Amendment-Before-the-Supreme-Court.htm).

(United States vs. Cruikshank 1875),
The second ruling only mentions that assembling as a militia can be subject to state legislation. It didn't say that citizens don't have individual rights to keep and bear arms.
Perhaps I should have gone into more detail. I shouldn't expect other people to dig through court notes, but I was just worried that too many citations and explanations would bloat an already long post. The Court Opinion clearly stated the "Second Amendment has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/92/542.html)" again deferring to the context of the state militias.

If this is in reference to US v Cruickshank, to which I concede that it didn't protect individual rights to keep and bear arms, that ruling have been characterized as one of the worst ruling in the US as it failed miserably to protect freed slaves.
https://constitutionallawreporter.com/2016/12/13/historical-united-states-v-cruikshank/

So to use this ruling as evidence the only reason Heller won was because of the NRA spewing propaganda is faulty at best.
Quote
Evidence?
Here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9a710a84d23)'s a John Paul Stevens excerpt (Associate Justice of the SCOTUS 1975-2010) hosted under the Washington Post.

For good measure, here (https://ammo.com/articles/second-amendment-supreme-court-cases-guide)'s a gun advocate site that sells ammunition. It has this history page, which closely echos my list and condemns the long history of rulings for the same reasons I listed. We are both are pointing to the recent changes in rulings, but this site's motivation is to point out what it deems as "progress".

Ok, I'll concede to this point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on April 28, 2018, 05:11:47 PM
To use this ruling as evidence the only reason Heller won was because of the NRA spewing propaganda is faulty at best.
Don't worry, I wasn't.  :)

Every case I listed was intended only to establish a running precedent for every time the second amendment was interpreted. Each instance (prior to Heller), it was interpreted consistently under one of two models: "States' Rights" versus "Incorporation".

The Cruikshank case was only mentioned because it was an instance of when the Supreme Court happened to reaffirm the existing interpretations of the second amendment. Case specifics were merely incidental. ...I was not endorsing their final decision.

As for my comment mentioning the NRA, I was primarily referring to the NRA's direct influence on the Heller trial.

Justice Scalia was notorious (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/us/politics/scalia-led-court-in-taking-trips-funded-by-private-sponsors.html) for accepting gifts from parties and business interests whose cases appeared before him. In the Heller case, Scalia's majority opinion (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf) won out 5 to 4. Accusation of NRA influence on his ruling strike me as highly plausible, but I currently am unaware of substantive proof. However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into their attempts to control the outcome of that case.
 
I would agree with notions that NRA propaganda exists and may have played a role, but I also should disclaim that I don't consider the NRA's roles to be the only contributing factors. For example, I'd also wager 44 states who granted gun rights contributed heavily to public perception on what the second amendment actually meant prior to 2008.

Anecdotally, I knew very few people who didn't already think there was a federal right to own a gun for individual purposes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on April 28, 2018, 05:21:56 PM
However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into controlling the outcome of that case.

It's quite a leap going from paying lawyer fees to controlling the outcome of a case.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on April 28, 2018, 05:33:44 PM
However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into controlling the outcome of that case.

It's quite a leap going from paying lawyer fees to controlling the outcome of a case.

Ah I meant to say "attempting to control". My mistake.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on April 28, 2018, 05:51:08 PM
However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into controlling the outcome of that case.

It's quite a leap going from paying lawyer fees to controlling the outcome of a case.

Ah I meant to say "attempting to control". My mistake.

Lawyers on both sides got paid. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on April 28, 2018, 08:30:05 PM
However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into controlling the outcome of that case.

It's quite a leap going from paying lawyer fees to controlling the outcome of a case.

Ah I meant to say "attempting to control". My mistake.

Lawyers on both sides got paid.

I wasn't objecting to them getting paid. I was calling attention to the concerted efforts of a vested interest.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on April 28, 2018, 10:37:56 PM
However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into controlling the outcome of that case.

It's quite a leap going from paying lawyer fees to controlling the outcome of a case.

Ah I meant to say "attempting to control". My mistake.

Lawyers on both sides got paid.

I wasn't objecting to them getting paid. I was calling attention to the concerted efforts of a vested interest.

Which side does not have an interest in the outcome?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on April 29, 2018, 02:50:28 AM
However, it has been established that the NRA directly backed the lawyers arguing for individual gun rights. NRA lobbying and financial backing certainly went into controlling the outcome of that case.

It's quite a leap going from paying lawyer fees to controlling the outcome of a case.

Ah I meant to say "attempting to control". My mistake.

Lawyers on both sides got paid.

I wasn't objecting to them getting paid. I was calling attention to the concerted efforts of a vested interest.

Which side does not have an interest in the outcome?

lol, I wasn't objecting to the NRA as being invested in the outcome either.

If you are digging for my reasons for my own personal condemnation of the NRA, let me help you out:
Looking at just the Heller case (and not the plethora of shady business practices and propaganda), then I personally condemn them for injecting themselves and ~3.5 million dollars worth of legal interference into the court proceedings of an existing two party civil suit between Heller and the State in which the NRA had no legal standing to bring a suit themselves.

I personally define "government corruption" as the undue influence of a third party interfering in normal government operations in order to appease government figures or shape government policies for personal gain/profit.

Ex. Bribing a police officer to overlook your crimes would be corruption.
Ex. Big Oil giving gifts to senators to pass their laws would be corruption.

The normal government operations would have been between 1. the people who are interested in trying to adhere to the historical precedents and preserve the founder's intent for guns and enforce the existing laws, and 2. the security guard who was was suing the government because he was denied a gun permit under the current laws.

The NRA was a third party who had no role as either plaintiff nor defendant. They were just a wealthy organization who stood to profit off the rampant proliferation of guns. I consider any gifts that may have been bestowed to any judges, and any legal teams inserted into those court proceedings to be inappropriate and immoral influences. Summarily, I consider them a literal source of corruption.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 18, 2018, 09:37:11 AM
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php

Get your thoughts and prayers ready people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on May 18, 2018, 10:17:51 AM
I'd like say I didn't expect another shooting in 'murica, but it would be a lie.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 18, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
Dammit, this is really fucked up.

I'm sure in a few days there will be hilarious man on the street interviews where they make fun of people for not knowing what the AR in AR-15 stands for.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on May 18, 2018, 11:17:31 AM
I'm sure in a few days there will be hilarious man on the street interviews where they make fun of people for not knowing what the AR in AR-15 stands for.
To be fair, I wouldn't really expect too many people to know that the "AR" stands for ArmaLite rifle (for the company that designed it).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 18, 2018, 11:23:27 AM
Exactly, but after the last school shooting the gun nuts were doing that. Just like a few years ago they were making a big deal out of people not knowing the difference between a magazine and a clip.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 18, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
I've got to say these people brandishing AR-15's are looking pretty sick to me.  I can't look at that particular gun without thinking of all of the children its been used to massacre.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 18, 2018, 11:59:03 AM
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php

Get your thoughts and prayers ready people.
Turns out the suspected shooter is Greek  :-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on May 18, 2018, 12:08:54 PM
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php

Get your thoughts and prayers ready people.
Turns out the suspected shooter is Greek  :-\
Well that is surprising.

But then again, the greeks are s.o.w - ask botd if you don't believe me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 18, 2018, 06:21:45 PM
I've got to say these people brandishing AR-15's are looking pretty sick to me.  I can't look at that particular gun without thinking of all of the children its been used to massacre.

Well, thankfully for you, he used a shotgun and a revolver, thus disproving the myth that only rifles similar to the AR can be used to cause this much damage.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 18, 2018, 06:37:42 PM
I've got to say these people brandishing AR-15's are looking pretty sick to me.  I can't look at that particular gun without thinking of all of the children its been used to massacre.

Well, thankfully for you, he used a shotgun and a revolver, thus disproving the myth that only rifles similar to the AR can be used to cause this much damage.

My mistake.  I saw a very early report that an AR-15 had been used.  Apparently that report was wrong.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 18, 2018, 06:54:46 PM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.   

EDIT:  For those interested,  the Victorian Firearms storage laws.  http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=36210
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 18, 2018, 07:09:19 PM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.

A buyback may work when theres at most 2 million guns in a culture that doesn't view firearms as a fundamental right, but you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech. Buybacks have tried and failed miserably over here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 18, 2018, 07:18:33 PM
Ways I can think of that would have stopped this.

Bullet proof vests for all students.

Ban all Greeks and put the Helenic Republic on the terrorist watch list.

Put pressure on gun owners to properly secure their firearms.

Some of these methods might be more effective than others.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 18, 2018, 07:25:28 PM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.

A buyback may work when theres at most 2 million guns in a culture that doesn't view firearms as a fundamental right, but you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech. Buybacks have tried and failed miserably over here.

You need a politician with the guts to take on the gun lobby.   Maybe start with a referendum on the second amendment.   

There were 10,204 civillans killed in Syria in 2017,  http://www.iamsyria.org/syrian-conflict-in-2017.html

Care to guess how many gun deaths in the USA for the same period.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 18, 2018, 07:41:49 PM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.

A buyback may work when theres at most 2 million guns in a culture that doesn't view firearms as a fundamental right, but you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech. Buybacks have tried and failed miserably over here.

You need a politician with the guts to take on the gun lobby.   Maybe start with a referendum on the second amendment.   

There were 10,204 civillans killed in Syria in 2017,  http://www.iamsyria.org/syrian-conflict-in-2017.html

Care to guess how many gun deaths in the USA for the same period.

The gun lobby is millions of law abiding citizens. And there were around 30,000 gun deaths in the US however, 60% of those deaths were suicides (completely avoidable), and most of the homicides were in states and cities with strict gun laws. Plus the US is a whole lot bigger than Syria.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 18, 2018, 08:02:57 PM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.

A buyback may work when theres at most 2 million guns in a culture that doesn't view firearms as a fundamental right, but you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech. Buybacks have tried and failed miserably over here.

You need a politician with the guts to take on the gun lobby.   Maybe start with a referendum on the second amendment.   

There were 10,204 civillans killed in Syria in 2017,  http://www.iamsyria.org/syrian-conflict-in-2017.html

Care to guess how many gun deaths in the USA for the same period.

The gun lobby is millions of law abiding citizens. And there were around 30,000 gun deaths in the US however, 60% of those deaths were suicides (completely avoidable), and most of the homicides were in states and cities with strict gun laws. Plus the US is a whole lot bigger than Syria.

That's true America is bigger than Syria.  But,  to take your first point,  I think gun owners are the in the minority in the US.  I think I saw a figure like 3%.

What side would be likely to win in a referendum on the 2nd amendment?    Given that a fair number of the 97% who don't own a gun, would still support the right for others to own a gun,  I'd think it's still likely the gun lobby would lose.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 18, 2018, 08:08:53 PM


Them there's yer problem. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 18, 2018, 08:10:38 PM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.

A buyback may work when theres at most 2 million guns in a culture that doesn't view firearms as a fundamental right, but you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech. Buybacks have tried and failed miserably over here.

You need a politician with the guts to take on the gun lobby.   Maybe start with a referendum on the second amendment.   

There were 10,204 civillans killed in Syria in 2017,  http://www.iamsyria.org/syrian-conflict-in-2017.html

Care to guess how many gun deaths in the USA for the same period.

The gun lobby is millions of law abiding citizens. And there were around 30,000 gun deaths in the US however, 60% of those deaths were suicides (completely avoidable), and most of the homicides were in states and cities with strict gun laws. Plus the US is a whole lot bigger than Syria.

That's true America is bigger than Syria.  But,  to take your first point,  I think gun owners are the in the minority in the US.  I think I saw a figure like 3%.

What side would be likely to win in a referendum on the 2nd amendment?    Given that a fair number of the 97% who don't own a gun, would still support the right for others to own a gun,  I'd think it's still likely the gun lobby would lose.

That's an interesting question. I think most people would prefer guns as a privilege like driving as opposed to a right like speech. However the pro gun people look at it as a way of life so they have the edge in any referendum. Whereas the gun control people are only motivated when there's a problem. The nra knows this so they've gotten very good at derailing the conversation until the heat blows over.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on May 18, 2018, 08:49:28 PM
The gun lobby is millions of law abiding citizens.
Actually, the gun lobby is mostly gun manufacturers.  Most of the millions of law abiding gun owners favor common sense gun regulations that terrify the gun lobby.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: nickrulercreator on May 18, 2018, 10:41:27 PM
I've found a solution:

Ban schools.

No schools, no school shootings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on May 18, 2018, 10:55:03 PM
The problem is the shoot first, shoot later shoot some more mentality. These rednecks need to calm down and find better solutions to their problems.

Gun laws may be a good thing. But they won't fix a gun happy, 2nd amendment right fixated culture.

I would say that that mentality was useful in earlier times, when heaving that tea overboard and fighting them bloody British and winning independence and all that.. But seriously, chill out already. No one's going to try to take over the country by military force, and if they do, they won't even be in range of your rifle when they do it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 19, 2018, 01:42:24 AM
you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech.
Which is why you can't have nice things.

Ban all Greeks and put the Helenic Republic on the terrorist watch list.
Heiwa was one step ahead of everyone when he called me a terrorist. He is vindicated now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 19, 2018, 02:05:15 AM
When will America realise that these things happen only in America? Guns have to go.

Or we'll get to "Hey, I have the right to own my personal Tank."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on May 19, 2018, 02:22:33 AM
You can own your own personal tank in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 03:27:14 AM
You can own your own personal tank in the US.

Wow, you must live in a rough neighborhood?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 19, 2018, 04:16:08 AM
You can own your own personal tank in the US.
Well, yeah, but at least people haven't gotten to the point they feel it's necessary to save up for them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 19, 2018, 04:17:40 AM
You can own your own personal tank in the US.

Wow, you must live in a rough neighborhood?
I'm just imagining jroa typing out this post while his neighboor is trying to tear down his wall using his tank.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 19, 2018, 05:44:53 AM
You can own your own personal tank in the US.

Who's the genius who legislated that?

Like, yeah our citizens definitely need tanks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 19, 2018, 05:47:55 AM
You can own your own personal tank in the US.

Who's the genius who legislated that?

Like, yeah our citizens definitely need tanks.
No one, the legislation was there before tanks were a thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 05:53:28 AM
I have only one word for the USA.    Buyback.

Disclaimer:  I used to go duck shooting and fox hunting in my younger days,  (I live in a rural area)  and go with some friends to shoot every so often at a local pistol range.  I'm not anti-gun,  I just think some Americans don't have the psychological stability or temperament to have access to a firearm.

If you own a firearm in Australia, you must keep it in a locked approved firearms safe, and ammunition stored and secured separately.    A condition of the license is that the police have the right to enter you home at any time to ensure you are in compliance.

A buyback may work when theres at most 2 million guns in a culture that doesn't view firearms as a fundamental right, but you're talking about over 400 million guns and a culture where whether agree or disagree with it, views guns as important as free speech. Buybacks have tried and failed miserably over here.

You need a politician with the guts to take on the gun lobby.   Maybe start with a referendum on the second amendment.   

There were 10,204 civillans killed in Syria in 2017,  http://www.iamsyria.org/syrian-conflict-in-2017.html

Care to guess how many gun deaths in the USA for the same period.

The gun lobby is millions of law abiding citizens. And there were around 30,000 gun deaths in the US however, 60% of those deaths were suicides (completely avoidable), and most of the homicides were in states and cities with strict gun laws. Plus the US is a whole lot bigger than Syria.

That's true America is bigger than Syria.  But,  to take your first point,  I think gun owners are the in the minority in the US.  I think I saw a figure like 3%.

Even if true, so what? It took less than that to change the laws on gay marriage.

Quote
What side would be likely to win in a referendum on the 2nd amendment?    Given that a fair number of the 97% who don't own a gun, would still support the right for others to own a gun,  I'd think it's still likely the gun lobby would lose.

Those for gun control had their chance with the Obama Administration. Yet they failed to to change much.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 05:56:50 AM
The gun lobby is millions of law abiding citizens.
Actually, the gun lobby is mostly gun manufacturers.  Most of the millions of law abiding gun owners favor common sense gun regulations that terrify the gun lobby.

Most of the NRA's donations comes from their members.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 19, 2018, 05:58:11 AM
And Russia. Don't forget Russia.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 06:19:53 AM
And Russia. Don't forget Russia.

What isn't nowadays? ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 07:08:01 AM
Those for gun control had their chance with the Obama Administration. Yet they failed to to change much.

Not really,  the republicans blocked pretty much everything.   Then the first thing that Trump did was to remove the Obama regulation that stopped mentally unfit people from buying guns. 

In any case,  "what-about-ism" is a weak and stupid way to argue.  I'm sure you can find a better more relevant argument.

Which brings me to the fact that the republicans currently have absolute control,  and are doing nothing.  Ryan won't even allow the congress to vote on a bill for stronger background checks.

He won't allow it because he knows it will pass, and that's going to piss off the NRA.   He's in their pocket.   Money talks,  whether it comes from Russia or not.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on May 19, 2018, 07:13:24 AM
We don't need more laws, we need to better enforce the ones we have.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 07:30:03 AM
Those for gun control had their chance with the Obama Administration. Yet they failed to to change much.

Not really,  the republicans blocked pretty much everything.

Obama had a democratic majority for his first term. If they wanted to do something, they had their chance.

Quote
   Then the first thing that Trump did was to remove the Obama regulation that stopped mentally unfit people from buying guns. 

President Trump did no such thing. Obama added people who had someone else do their finances as mentally ill. President Trump reversed that portion.
Quote
In any case,  "what-about-ism" is a weak and stupid way to argue.  I'm sure you can find a better more relevant argument.

Which brings me to the fact that the republicans currently have absolute control,  and are doing nothing.  Ryan won't even allow the congress to vote on a bill for stronger background checks.

He won't allow it because he knows it will pass, and that's going to piss off the NRA.   He's in their pocket.   Money talks,  whether it comes from Russia or not.
Haven't been following the news lately so I can't comment on what Ryan won't allow and why
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 19, 2018, 07:37:50 AM
Do you have a source I can read for this "Obama added people who had someone else do their finances as mentally ill. President Trump reversed that portion."?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 07:54:07 AM
Do you have a source I can read for this "Obama added people who had someone else do their finances as mentally ill. President Trump reversed that portion."?

The change was to give NICS access to the SSA database,  so that people receiving federal mental health benefits would be flagged.   I guess you could argue about what constitutes grounds for a federal mental health benefit?   

But the fact remains, that Trump reversed it.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 08:17:25 AM
Do you have a source I can read for this "Obama added people who had someone else do their finances as mentally ill. President Trump reversed that portion."?

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/no-gop-did-not-just-repeal-background-check-system-or-give-guns-mentally-ill/

I'm on vacation right now so my google fu isn't at its best.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 08:41:59 AM
Do you have a source I can read for this "Obama added people who had someone else do their finances as mentally ill. President Trump reversed that portion."?

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/no-gop-did-not-just-repeal-background-check-system-or-give-guns-mentally-ill/

I'm on vacation right now so my google fu isn't at its best.

LOL,  National Review is hardly an unbiased reliable source.  The real unanswered question is what constitutes grounds for receiving federal mental health benefits,  and should that information be available to NICS.

I imagine the answer is that there is a spectrum of mental disorders that qualify for federal mental health benefits,  surely some must be severe enough to be the sort of disorder that would disqualify a person from buying an AR-15.

Still doesn't alter the fact that Trump reversed it.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 19, 2018, 12:37:01 PM
Okay, but if you have to have help with your finances due to a mental impairment, why shouldn't you have to jump through an extra hoop to buy a gun? I mean, you're not likely to kill anyone with your light bill.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 01:34:06 PM
A firearm is just a convenient and effective tool for turning live people into dead people.

Knifes, poison and baseball bats are also readily available and viable tools.
The problem is not the method, it is the motivation.

There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 19, 2018, 01:37:00 PM
I think the mentally impaired are more likely to murder themselves than other people.

I don't know. We need to figure out wtf is going on with people. The media needs to be more responsible in covering these shootings, because this shit is contagious.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 02:00:04 PM
Okay, but if you have to have help with your finances due to a mental impairment, why shouldn't you have to jump through an extra hoop to buy a gun? I mean, you're not likely to kill anyone with your light bill.

The problem I have is the government can bar you from firearm ownership soley on the fact that you have someone else doing your finances. If there's already enough to diagnos someone as mentally ill tgen why add something that may snag completely healthy people into the mix? There are some people who simply can't be bothered with how much to budget for the month and have soneone else do their finances.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 19, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
A firearm is just a convenient and effective tool for turning live people into dead people.

Knifes, poison and baseball bats are also readily available and viable tools.
The problem is not the method, it is the motivation.

There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.

Seriously? Make your research. In the US, homicide rates in general are seven times higher than the highest rates in any developed country.
That’s general murder, including all weapons or methods. For guns alone, US rates are 25 times higher than the rest of the world.

That’s not to say that the US has more crime in general. Non-lethal crimes are similar to developed countries.
It’s the lethal crime that is so out of whack. And while the number of gun deaths hasn’t risen in the last years, they’ve dropped everywhere else in the world, widening the gap from the other direction.

Meanwhile Japan, Norway and the South Korea all enjoy zero gun deaths per year, while others fly nearby.

The US clearly has a problem with guns, the sooner it realizes it, the better.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 02:44:07 PM

Seriously? Make your research. In the US, homicide rates in general are seven times higher than the highest rates in any developed country.


According to a 2013 report by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), between 2005 and 2012, the average homicide rate in the U.S. was 4.9 per 100,000 inhabitants compared to the average rate globally, which was 6.2.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 19, 2018, 03:15:53 PM

Seriously? Make your research. In the US, homicide rates in general are seven times higher than the highest rates in any developed country.


According to a 2013 report by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), between 2005 and 2012, the average homicide rate in the U.S. was 4.9 per 100,000 inhabitants compared to the average rate globally, which was 6.2.
I definitely don't think it's 7 times higher and I'm not sure it's the highest,but he did say "developed countries". That 6.2 includes shithole countries.

 
A firearm is just a convenient and effective tool for turning live people into dead people.
But that is exactly the problem. It's VERY convenient.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 03:26:06 PM

 

A firearm is just a convenient and effective tool for turning live people into dead people.

But that is exactly the problem. It's VERY convenient.


A car is also a convenient and effective tool for turning live people into dead people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on May 19, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 03:34:32 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 19, 2018, 03:34:59 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

Like what retrictions?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on May 19, 2018, 05:02:23 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
By making firearms less convenient.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 05:31:49 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
By making firearms less convenient.


I typed "How?" because I'm lazy.
I should have typed "How would you do that?".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 07:27:31 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
By making firearms less convenient.


I typed "How?" because I'm lazy.
I should have typed "How would you do that?".

You might be stunned to know that there is a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of people shot with guns. 

Putting it another way,  it's harder to shoot someone if  you don't have a gun.   I thought it was obvious.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 07:55:00 PM

You might be stunned to know that there is a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of people shot with guns. 


So, if every firearm owner had twice as many firearms the number of people shot would double?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 08:43:30 PM

You might be stunned to know that there is a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of people shot with guns. 


So, if every firearm owner had twice as many firearms the number of people shot would double?

Strange as it seems,  that's pretty much what the statistics show.   https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.


(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/VCSDpKu-KPwUPb2r5F6i9j8NwUA=/0x0:3840x2794/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:3840x2794):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10328765/GUN_SCATTERPLOT_2x.png)

The USA does not have a monopoly on mental health issues, or anti-social angst ridden teenagers with a grudge,  the rest of the world has them too,  what's different in America is the gun culture.   If something pisses you off you shoot it.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 08:52:05 PM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 08:55:57 PM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What's the difference?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: nickrulercreator on May 19, 2018, 08:58:57 PM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 09:04:37 PM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What's the difference?


Murder is what someone tries to do to you.
Homicide is how you mitigate the situation.

Murder is a crime.
Homicide is not a crime.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 10:06:13 PM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What's the difference?


Murder is what someone tries to do to you.
Homicide is how you mitigate the situation.

Murder is a crime.
Homicide is not a crime.

I think you are a little confused.    Murder is always Homocide,  i agree however that Homocide is not always Murder from a legal point of view,  either way you still got shot and died.

Increased Homocide rate means more people got shot and killed.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 19, 2018, 10:29:37 PM

Increased Homocide rate means more people got shot and killed.


Heart attack, choking on a McDonald's happy meal toy, stroke, homicide, falling into a chipper/shredder are all causes of death.

Increased homicide rate means an increase in death caused by humans, not an increase in people who die of firearm injury. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 19, 2018, 11:43:20 PM

Increased Homocide rate means more people got shot and killed.


Heart attack, choking on a McDonald's happy meal toy, stroke, homicide, falling into a chipper/shredder are all causes of death.

Increased homicide rate means an increase in death caused by humans, not an increase in people who die of firearm injury.

Should I have highlighted the word "firearm" for you?    Chipper/shredder accidents are posted over in the Fargo thread.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 20, 2018, 12:37:39 AM

Should I have highlighted the word "firearm" for you?


Do you think I would have noticed or cared?   ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 20, 2018, 12:44:33 AM

Should I have highlighted the word "firearm" for you?


Do you think I would have noticed or cared?   ;D

LOL.   I'll take that as a yes.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 20, 2018, 05:02:37 AM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What
He is right, homicide and murder isn't the same thing. Homicide is just the act of a human killing another human. It includes manslaughter, self defense, involuntary manslaughter, war, etc.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 20, 2018, 06:50:25 AM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What
He is right, homicide and murder isn't the same thing. Homicide is just the act of a human killing another human. It includes manslaughter, self defense, involuntary manslaughter, war, etc.

I think we already covered that distraction.  Murder is always homicide,  homicide is not always murder.  I could draw a venn diagram if you like.

The research shows a direct correlation between rates of firearm homicides and rates of gun ownership.   As to why the moose went off about murder?  I guess it was just a derailing tactic to divert attention.

The fact remains the USA has a gun problem, that they seem strangely unable to understand. 

The solution is simply to reduce the number of guns to a civilized level.  However it will never happen with the gun lobby owning all the politicians.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 20, 2018, 07:02:31 AM
Why do discussions like this always turn into a retarted semantics argument?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-upset-over-noisy-kids-man-opens-fire-on-neighbors-with-ak-47/

He looks like a good and stable citizen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on May 20, 2018, 07:44:32 AM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What
He is right, homicide and murder isn't the same thing. Homicide is just the act of a human killing another human. It includes manslaughter, self defense, involuntary manslaughter, war, etc.

I think we already covered that distraction.  Murder is always homicide,  homicide is not always murder.  I could draw a venn diagram if you like.

The research shows a direct correlation between rates of firearm homicides and rates of gun ownership.   As to why the moose went off about murder?  I guess it was just a derailing tactic to divert attention.

The fact remains the USA has a gun problem, that they seem strangely unable to understand. 

The solution is simply to reduce the number of guns to a civilized level.  However it will never happen with the gun lobby owning all the politicians.
That is assuming correlation is causation. Perhaps that correlation just shows that people who love to shoot and think it's the solution to every problem happen to have more guns. In that case, legislating that they must have fewer guns won't necessarily help much.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 20, 2018, 08:38:39 AM
Murder is always homicide,
I didn't say it isn't...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 20, 2018, 08:46:05 AM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What
He is right, homicide and murder isn't the same thing. Homicide is just the act of a human killing another human. It includes manslaughter, self defense, involuntary manslaughter, war, etc.

I think we already covered that distraction.  Murder is always homicide,  homicide is not always murder.  I could draw a venn diagram if you like.

The research shows a direct correlation between rates of firearm homicides and rates of gun ownership.   As to why the moose went off about murder?  I guess it was just a derailing tactic to divert attention.

The fact remains the USA has a gun problem, that they seem strangely unable to understand. 

The solution is simply to reduce the number of guns to a civilized level.  However it will never happen with the gun lobby owning all the politicians.
That is assuming correlation is causation. Perhaps that correlation just shows that people who love to shoot and think it's the solution to every problem happen to have more guns. In that case, legislating that they must have fewer guns won't necessarily help much.

Oliver North thinks it's due to ADHD and ritalin.    In the case of Santa Fe School shooting,  the shooter was rejected and embarrassed in front of his class by a girl he had propositioned,  the example SCG cited was a guy pissed off by noisy neighboring kids.   

None of these things are unique to the USA.   Mind boggling numbers of guns and crazed gun culture is mostly unique to America. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 20, 2018, 08:48:55 AM
Murder is always homicide,
I didn't say it isn't...

Apologies I misread what you were saying..  We are both saying the same thing.

He is right, homicide and murder isn't the same thing. Homicide is just the act of a human killing another human. It includes manslaughter, self defense, involuntary manslaughter, war, etc.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 20, 2018, 09:15:58 AM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
By making firearms less convenient.


I typed "How?" because I'm lazy.
I should have typed "How would you do that?".

You might be stunned to know that there is a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of people shot with guns. 

Putting it another way,  it's harder to shoot someone if  you don't have a gun.   I thought it was obvious.

If that's the case then why do we have a decreasing violent crime rate yet gun sales are rising?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 20, 2018, 09:38:35 AM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
By making firearms less convenient.


I typed "How?" because I'm lazy.
I should have typed "How would you do that?".

You might be stunned to know that there is a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of people shot with guns. 

Putting it another way,  it's harder to shoot someone if  you don't have a gun.   I thought it was obvious.

If that's the case then why do we have a decreasing violent crime rate yet gun sales are rising?

The discussion is not about violent crime, it's about gun deaths.   People murdered by firearms has dropped since the mid 1990's,  It dropped from 7 per 100,000 to around 3 per 100,000  but the total gun related deaths is still a total of around 9 per 100,000 which includes suicides.  The rate of gun ownership went up from 0.94 to 1.45 guns per person from 1993 to 2013


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 21, 2018, 03:34:08 PM
You know how to stop school shootings? Ban backpacks! Who needs to carry books anyway?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/99274237-132.html

Quote
After the shooting at Santa Fe High School students will not be allowed to carry backpacks on Polk County campuses this week.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 21, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
There is no firearm restriction that will prevent anyone from murdering people.
No, firearms restrictions won't prevent anyone from murdering people, but it could slow some of them down a bit.

How?
By making firearms less convenient.


I typed "How?" because I'm lazy.
I should have typed "How would you do that?".

You might be stunned to know that there is a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of people shot with guns. 

Putting it another way,  it's harder to shoot someone if  you don't have a gun.   I thought it was obvious.

If that's the case then why do we have a decreasing violent crime rate yet gun sales are rising?

The discussion is not about violent crime, it's about gun deaths.   People murdered by firearms has dropped since the mid 1990's,  It dropped from 7 per 100,000 to around 3 per 100,000  but the total gun related deaths is still a total of around 9 per 100,000 which includes suicides.  The rate of gun ownership went up from 0.94 to 1.45 guns per person from 1993 to 2013

It still goes againts the premise that more guns equal more crime or gun deaths.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 21, 2018, 09:43:54 PM
It still goes againts the premise that more guns equal more crime or gun deaths.

Not really.  There must be a saturation point somewhere,  the argument still holds.

What's your explanation for the following?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/VCSDpKu-KPwUPb2r5F6i9j8NwUA=/0x0:3840x2794/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:3840x2794):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10328765/GUN_SCATTERPLOT_2x.png)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on May 21, 2018, 10:04:25 PM

Quote
For example, a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

Homicide in not murder.

What
He is right, homicide and murder isn't the same thing. Homicide is just the act of a human killing another human. It includes manslaughter, self defense, involuntary manslaughter, war, etc.

I think we already covered that distraction.  Murder is always homicide,  homicide is not always murder.  I could draw a venn diagram if you like.

The research shows a direct correlation between rates of firearm homicides and rates of gun ownership.   As to why the moose went off about murder?  I guess it was just a derailing tactic to divert attention.

The fact remains the USA has a gun problem, that they seem strangely unable to understand. 

The solution is simply to reduce the number of guns to a civilized level.  However it will never happen with the gun lobby owning all the politicians.
That is assuming correlation is causation. Perhaps that correlation just shows that people who love to shoot and think it's the solution to every problem happen to have more guns. In that case, legislating that they must have fewer guns won't necessarily help much.

Oliver North thinks it's due to ADHD and ritalin.    In the case of Santa Fe School shooting,  the shooter was rejected and embarrassed in front of his class by a girl he had propositioned,  the example SCG cited was a guy pissed off by noisy neighboring kids.   

None of these things are unique to the USA.   Mind boggling numbers of guns and crazed gun culture is mostly unique to America.
But more crazed gun culture.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 22, 2018, 12:32:13 AM
It still goes againts the premise that more guns equal more crime or gun deaths.

Not really.  There must be a saturation point somewhere,  the argument still holds.

What's your explanation for the following?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/VCSDpKu-KPwUPb2r5F6i9j8NwUA=/0x0:3840x2794/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:3840x2794):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10328765/GUN_SCATTERPLOT_2x.png)

Most of the deaths are suicides which are completely avoidable. Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws and high poverty. It's actually not doing the US justice to compare such a large country with diverse demographics and laws for each state to a mostly homogeneous country such as Germany. BTW Switzerland has more guns than the UK yet the UK has more murders IIRC than Switzerland. A better comparison would be to compare a state like Texas to a similar size country in both size and population like say France and compare and contrast the difference.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 22, 2018, 12:44:32 AM
Most of the deaths are suicides which are completely avoidable. Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws and high poverty. It's actually not doing the US justice to compare such a large country with diverse demographics and laws for each state to a mostly homogeneous country such as Germany. BTW Switzerland has more guns than the UK yet the UK has more murders IIRC than Switzerland. A better comparison would be to compare a state like Texas to a similar size country in both size and population like say France and compare and contrast the difference.

Strict gun laws or not, they're still waaaaaaay loser than european laws.

What's the point in comparing Switzerland to UK, one's murder rate may be higher than the other but since the gun ownership is so low, it's very likely not related to guns.

I disagree in comparing just a state to France for example because US laws apply to all it's states. I agree that saying "US had X deaths in December, UK had Y" and that doesn't make justice with big diffrences in population, but percentage and per 100.000 stats are still valid.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 22, 2018, 12:56:58 AM
Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws
Why are people still bringing up that argument? It's not even true and it still missee the point.

Also stop acting as though anyone thinks the ONLY factor for high rates of violent crime is guns. No one acts like it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 22, 2018, 01:21:21 AM

Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws

Why are people still bringing up that argument? It's not even true and it still missee the point.

What he means, I think, is that areas controlled by Democrats for decades are shit-holes of poverty and violence.

Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and D.C. are representative.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 22, 2018, 01:24:45 AM
Most of the deaths are suicides which are completely avoidable. Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws and high poverty. It's actually not doing the US justice to compare such a large country with diverse demographics and laws for each state to a mostly homogeneous country such as Germany. BTW Switzerland has more guns than the UK yet the UK has more murders IIRC than Switzerland. A better comparison would be to compare a state like Texas to a similar size country in both size and population like say France and compare and contrast the difference.

Strict gun laws or not, they're still waaaaaaay loser than european laws.

What's the point in comparing Switzerland to UK, one's murder rate may be higher than the other but since the gun ownership is so low, it's very likely not related to guns.

Actually 24% of Switzerland's population have a firearm while the UK has only 3% from what I can gather.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/switzerland

So that's a huge difference worth noting.
Quote
I disagree in comparing just a state to France for example because US laws apply to all it's states. I agree that saying "US had X deaths in December, UK had Y" and that doesn't make justice with big diffrences in population, but percentage and per 100.000 stats are still valid.

However we are arguing the cause of the per 100,000 deaths.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 22, 2018, 01:26:18 AM
Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws
Why are people still bringing up that argument? It's not even true and it still missee the point.

How is it not true and what point am I missing?
Quote
Also stop acting as though anyone thinks the ONLY factor for high rates of violent crime is guns. No one acts like it is.

However people are acting as though it's a main factor.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on May 22, 2018, 01:26:35 AM
The swisstards may have firearms, but they have it because of military, meaning they have no ammo at home. Can't compare that to situations in other countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 22, 2018, 01:44:13 AM
The swisstards may have firearms, but they have it because of military, meaning they have no ammo at home. Can't compare that to situations in other countries.

If I remember correctly, Everybody in the Swiss Army is also issued with ammo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 22, 2018, 02:23:36 AM
Also most homicides are concentrated mostly in states and cities with strict gun laws
Why are people still bringing up that argument? It's not even true and it still missee the point.

How is it not true and what point am I missing?
Quote
Also stop acting as though anyone thinks the ONLY factor for high rates of violent crime is guns. No one acts like it is.

However people are acting as though it's a main factor.
It's not true because... It's just not. I think I made a post a few months ago that compared the stats, it's just false. The rates are about the same. Also a lot of these states implemented strict gun laws BECAUSE they had such high rates of crime. And it's not just the legislation. It's also the gun culture of the US, even in states with more strict laws, which is constantly reinforced by the NRA abd gun manufacturers and is just getting worse and worse. The NRA is probably the most dangerous organization in the US right now.

People are acting as though it is a main factor because it IS a main factor. Just because other factors come into play and make the correlation less apparent, it doesn't mean it's no longer a main factor. Almost any factor that you could consider a "main" factor of high violent crime exists in my country more than in almost every state of the US, and yet we still have much lower violent crime rates, does that disprove that, say, poverty is a main factor?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 22, 2018, 07:05:38 AM
The swisstards may have firearms, but they have it because of military, meaning they have no ammo at home. Can't compare that to situations in other countries.

If I remember correctly, Everybody in the Swiss Army is also issued with ammo.



Switzerland is an interesting country.  They used to keep the ammo but after a few incidents involving firearms ways are changing.  Gun control is becoming much more strict.

It's kind of interesting how little it took for them to change their gun laws.  Our schools are more dangerous than our war zones and we do exactly nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 22, 2018, 07:10:35 AM
The swisstards may have firearms, but they have it because of military, meaning they have no ammo at home. Can't compare that to situations in other countries.

If I remember correctly, Everybody in the Swiss Army is also issued with ammo.

And a knife that has a fork and a spoon and a bottle opener.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on May 22, 2018, 08:14:23 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/16/resource-officer-prevents-possible-school-shooting-after-man-brings-gun-to-illinois-high-school.html

It's kind of funny how this isn't being reported nearly as much as the recent school shooting. It's almost like it doesn't fit the narrative that guns are evil and should be destroyed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 22, 2018, 08:31:27 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/16/resource-officer-prevents-possible-school-shooting-after-man-brings-gun-to-illinois-high-school.html

It's kind of funny how this isn't being reported nearly as much as the recent school shooting. It's almost like it doesn't fit the narrative that guns are evil and should be destroyed.

Well obviously.  People not getting murdered at school isn't supposed to be newsworthy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on May 22, 2018, 08:33:33 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/16/resource-officer-prevents-possible-school-shooting-after-man-brings-gun-to-illinois-high-school.html

It's kind of funny how this isn't being reported nearly as much as the recent school shooting. It's almost like it doesn't fit the narrative that guns are evil and should be destroyed.

Well obviously.  People not getting murdered at school isn't supposed to be newsworthy.

Yeah, but it was a GUN that saved lives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 22, 2018, 09:58:18 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/16/resource-officer-prevents-possible-school-shooting-after-man-brings-gun-to-illinois-high-school.html

It's kind of funny how this isn't being reported nearly as much as the recent school shooting. It's almost like it doesn't fit the narrative that guns are evil and should be destroyed.

Well obviously.  People not getting murdered at school isn't supposed to be newsworthy.

Yeah, but it was a GUN that saved lives.
One less gun and he wouldn't have even had to use his. And yeah, why would they make a big deal out of a shooting that DIDN'T happen, compared to shootings with multiple dead victims? What kind of stupid argument is that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on May 22, 2018, 10:14:25 AM
I think someone caught bringing a gun to school should be rare and newsworthy. The fact that we apparently don't consider it newsworthy unless they shoot up a bunch of people is appalling as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on May 22, 2018, 10:44:53 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/16/resource-officer-prevents-possible-school-shooting-after-man-brings-gun-to-illinois-high-school.html

It's kind of funny how this isn't being reported nearly as much as the recent school shooting. It's almost like it doesn't fit the narrative that guns are evil and should be destroyed.

Well obviously.  People not getting murdered at school isn't supposed to be newsworthy.

Yeah, but it was a GUN that saved lives.
One less gun and he wouldn't have even had to use his. And yeah, why would they make a big deal out of a shooting that DIDN'T happen, compared to shootings with multiple dead victims? What kind of stupid argument is that?


The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 22, 2018, 10:49:30 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/16/resource-officer-prevents-possible-school-shooting-after-man-brings-gun-to-illinois-high-school.html

It's kind of funny how this isn't being reported nearly as much as the recent school shooting. It's almost like it doesn't fit the narrative that guns are evil and should be destroyed.

Well obviously.  People not getting murdered at school isn't supposed to be newsworthy.

Yeah, but it was a GUN that saved lives.
One less gun and he wouldn't have even had to use his. And yeah, why would they make a big deal out of a shooting that DIDN'T happen, compared to shootings with multiple dead victims? What kind of stupid argument is that?


The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

The link you provided is fox news.  Don't you think the largest media outlet in the US counts as the MSM?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on May 22, 2018, 11:08:28 AM
Correction, the left-bias media I should say.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: TotesReptilian on May 22, 2018, 11:36:39 AM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on May 23, 2018, 07:06:53 AM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron


If I had feelings they'd be hurt :D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on May 23, 2018, 09:51:41 AM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron


If I had feelings they'd be hurt :D
Yeah keep pretending, we all know that ':D' is a smile of PAIN!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on May 23, 2018, 10:03:10 AM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron


If I had feelings they'd be hurt :D
Yeah keep pretending, we all know that ':D' is a smile of PAIN!

I was going to say something about doing your mom in the bum, but refrained.  Are you proud of me?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 23, 2018, 09:26:16 PM
The swisstards may have firearms, but they have it because of military, meaning they have no ammo at home. Can't compare that to situations in other countries.

If I remember correctly, Everybody in the Swiss Army is also issued with ammo.



Switzerland is an interesting country.  They used to keep the ammo but after a few incidents involving firearms ways are changing.  Gun control is becoming much more strict.

It's kind of interesting how little it took for them to change their gun laws.  Our schools are more dangerous than our war zones and we do exactly nothing.

Actually, your stat speaks more to how modern warfare is becoming more safe rather than how our schools are becoming less safe, first of all. You're more likely to win the lottery twice than to be killed in a school shooting. That also means you're more likely to win the lottery more than twice than to die in a battlefield. Secondly, the reason why you're less likely to die in the battlefield is because soldiers can shoot back, as opposed to being trapped in a confined space with no or futile means to defend yourself. Finally, way more people die from texting and driving, yet we don't see a #marchforourlives with thousands protesting government to do something about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 23, 2018, 09:28:18 PM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron

And are they still covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 24, 2018, 12:33:38 AM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron

And are they still covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?
Why would they? That makes no sense.

Actually, your stat speaks more to how modern warfare is becoming more safe rather than how our schools are becoming less safe, first of all. You're more likely to win the lottery twice than to be killed in a school shooting.

Oh gee, that's comforting. How about saying that approximately 1 in 1000 public schools have been shot up since Sandy Hook?

Quote
That also means you're more likely to win the lottery more than twice than to die in a battlefield. Secondly, the reason why you're less likely to die in the battlefield is because soldiers can shoot back, as opposed to being trapped in a confined space with no or futile means to defend yourself. Finally, way more people die from texting and driving, yet we don't see a #marchforourlives with thousands protesting government to do something about it.
What kind of stupid argument is that? Have you ever protested anything? If yes, it probably was less important, according to your argument, than the people who die because of texting and driving, so you should stop protesting whatever you were protesting and protested texting and driving instead. Why do people feel this need to throw false equivalencies all over the place every time this subject comes up?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 24, 2018, 01:25:08 AM
The point is that is doesn't further the anti-gun narrative so the MSM is conveniently ignoring it. If that resource officer wasn't there who knows how many would have been shot and/or killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/illinois-dixon-high-school-shooting/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/officer-hailed-a-hero-for-stopping-gunman-at-illinois-high-school-1235517507895

moron

And are they still covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?
Why would they? That makes no sense.

The argument was that the media isn't covering the shooting that was stopped by an armed person the way the Santa Fe shooting was. Totes replied with two articles "disproving" the original claim. In, my opinion, the original poster wasn't claiming that the media wasn't covering the other incident at all, but not as frequent as the Santa Fe shooting. Thus my question. Are they covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?
Quote
Actually, your stat speaks more to how modern warfare is becoming more safe rather than how our schools are becoming less safe, first of all. You're more likely to win the lottery twice than to be killed in a school shooting.

Oh gee, that's comforting. How about saying that approximately 1 in 1000 public schools have been shot up since Sandy Hook?

Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?
Quote
Quote
That also means you're more likely to win the lottery more than twice than to die in a battlefield. Secondly, the reason why you're less likely to die in the battlefield is because soldiers can shoot back, as opposed to being trapped in a confined space with no or futile means to defend yourself. Finally, way more people die from texting and driving, yet we don't see a #marchforourlives with thousands protesting government to do something about it.
What kind of stupid argument is that? Have you ever protested anything?

I haven't marched in the streets for anything if that's what you're asking.

Quote
If yes, it probably was less important, according to your argument, than the people who die because of texting and driving, so you should stop protesting whatever you were protesting and protested texting and driving instead. Why do people feel this need to throw false equivalencies all over the place every time this subject comes up?

The argument is we need to restrict (or as some of the rally leaders and protesters stated outright ban) gun ownership because too many children are dying. Which, if that was their true intent, then there are far more things that kill way more children that are the cause of human nature, such as texting and driving.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 24, 2018, 03:14:27 AM
The argument was that the media isn't covering the shooting that was stopped by an armed person the way the Santa Fe shooting was. Totes replied with two articles "disproving" the original claim. In, my opinion, the original poster wasn't claiming that the media wasn't covering the other incident at all, but not as frequent as the Santa Fe shooting. Thus my question. Are they covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?

No, Wesker literally said they weren't covering it. And my question is, why WOULD they be covering it the same way, as a story where so many children died? Isn't it obvious that these stories wouldn't be covered the same way, regardless of bias?


Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is. Do you know how many schools have been shot up in my country in my lifetime? 1 (there was an incident in 2009 where someone shot at 3 people, thankfully no one died except himself, but that was in a vocational college, not sure if it counts). 2018 has barely started and you have had 17 school shootings with multiple fatalities. Yes, the US has a population about 20 times larger. But the math is pretty simple, and there is still no comparison in the frequency. If that trend continues (and not only does it continue but it gets more frequent), given that within 5 years about 1 in 1000 schools have been shot up, the same incident doesn't usually happen on the same school twice, you go to a school that hasn't already been shot up and most children spend at least 12 years at school, I think you can see that the odds of your school being shot up and you experiencing trauma as a result are A LOT higher than winning the lottery twice, even if you don't die.

Quote
The argument is we need to restrict (or as some of the rally leaders and protesters stated outright ban) gun ownership because too many children are dying. Which, if that was their true intent, then there are far more things that kill way more children that are the cause of human nature, such as texting and driving.
Oh really? Like, protest for laws that prohibit texting and driving, or set up campaigns that raise awareness for how dangerous texting and driving is? Oh wait, these laws and campaigns already exist. But there's only so much a government can do to restrict the irresponsible behaviour of some people. When it comes to guns however and the subject of school shootings in general, it hardly does ANYTHING substantial to restrict this behaviour, and it's because of people like you who keep distracting from the issue to go on tirades about how they should be talking about something else and disregard the fact that school shootings are an epidemic in the US and schools are no longer an environment where children can feel safe and learn.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on May 24, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
For my part, I can't remember a single school shooting in my country in my lifetime. Also can't remember any in the neighbour countries to be honest. Kinda seems like a 'murican problem to me. But whatever, I mean it's your constitutional right to buy guns in wallmart, so it's all good.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 24, 2018, 11:14:37 AM
For my part, I can't remember a single school shooting in my country in my lifetime. Also can't remember any in the neighbour countries to be honest. Kinda seems like a 'murican problem to me. But whatever, I mean it's your constitutional right to buy guns in wallmart, so it's all good.
Wikipedia has a list of all school shootings in Europe ever. I counted 28. About how many happen in USA within half a year. To be absolutely fair, I don't think it's JUST the gun laws. It's also the gun culture, and it probably also has to do with the school system and culture there. It's a weird phenomenon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on May 24, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
For my part, I can't remember a single school shooting in my country in my lifetime. Also can't remember any in the neighbour countries to be honest. Kinda seems like a 'murican problem to me. But whatever, I mean it's your constitutional right to buy guns in wallmart, so it's all good.
Wikipedia has a list of all school shootings in Europe ever. I counted 28. About how many happen in USA within half a year. To be absolutely fair, I don't think it's JUST the gun laws. It's also the gun culture, and it probably also has to do with the school system and culture there. It's a weird phenomenon.
I think that it's more than just gun culture.  I think it's more of a culture of violence in general.  What can you expect when you record your history by the wars you've fought and your action heroes are graded by their body counts?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 24, 2018, 04:29:10 PM
The argument was that the media isn't covering the shooting that was stopped by an armed person the way the Santa Fe shooting was. Totes replied with two articles "disproving" the original claim. In, my opinion, the original poster wasn't claiming that the media wasn't covering the other incident at all, but not as frequent as the Santa Fe shooting. Thus my question. Are they covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?

No, Wesker literally said they weren't covering it. And my question is, why WOULD they be covering it the same way, as a story where so many children died? Isn't it obvious that these stories wouldn't be covered the same way, regardless of bias?

I guess so.

Quote
Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is.
I could just as easily say that you intentionally make it sound like it's more of a problem than it actually is.
Quote
Do you know how many schools have been shot up in my country in my lifetime? 1 (there was an incident in 2009 where someone shot at 3 people, thankfully no one died except himself, but that was in a vocational college, not sure if it counts). 2018 has barely started and you have had 17 school shootings with multiple fatalities. Yes, the US has a population about 20 times larger. But the math is pretty simple, and there is still no comparison in the frequency. If that trend continues (and not only does it continue but it gets more frequent), given that within 5 years about 1 in 1000 schools have been shot up, the same incident doesn't usually happen on the same school twice, you go to a school that hasn't already been shot up and most children spend at least 12 years at school, I think you can see that the odds of your school being shot up and you experiencing trauma as a result are A LOT higher than winning the lottery twice, even if you don't die.

Actually the 17 school shootings stat is inflated. Of the 18, actually, acclaimed school shootings, only 8 of them inloved multiple casualties or even multiple targets. The rest were accidental discharges and even a suicide in an empty school parking lot.
Quote
Quote
The argument is we need to restrict (or as some of the rally leaders and protesters stated outright ban) gun ownership because too many children are dying. Which, if that was their true intent, then there are far more things that kill way more children that are the cause of human nature, such as texting and driving.
Oh really? Like, protest for laws that prohibit texting and driving, or set up campaigns that raise awareness for how dangerous texting and driving is? Oh wait, these laws and campaigns already exist.
Yeah, a hard to read sign passing by or a minute long commercial here and there or if you go on a police department's facebook page or program. That's not the same as media pundits going on for hours at a time about how dangerous texting and driving is or giant rallies raising awareness about the dangers.
Quote
But there's only so much a government can do to restrict the irresponsible behaviour of some people. When it comes to guns however and the subject of school shootings in general, it hardly does ANYTHING substantial to restrict this behaviour, and it's because of people like you who keep distracting from the issue to go on tirades about how they should be talking about something else and disregard the fact that school shootings are an epidemic in the US and schools are no longer an environment where children can feel safe and learn.

Actually there are many restrictions and laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. They aren't being enforced is the problem. The Parkland shooter could've been arrested/committed several times over before he could shoot anyone. And we also have solutions of our own. In my state for example, it is now mandated that there should a police officer or a trained armed guardian for every 1,000 students if I have the number correctly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 24, 2018, 10:45:21 PM
The argument was that the media isn't covering the shooting that was stopped by an armed person the way the Santa Fe shooting was. Totes replied with two articles "disproving" the original claim. In, my opinion, the original poster wasn't claiming that the media wasn't covering the other incident at all, but not as frequent as the Santa Fe shooting. Thus my question. Are they covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?

No, Wesker literally said they weren't covering it. And my question is, why WOULD they be covering it the same way, as a story where so many children died? Isn't it obvious that these stories wouldn't be covered the same way, regardless of bias?

I guess so.

Quote
Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is.
I could just as easily say that you intentionally make it sound like it's more of a problem than it actually is.
Quote
Do you know how many schools have been shot up in my country in my lifetime? 1 (there was an incident in 2009 where someone shot at 3 people, thankfully no one died except himself, but that was in a vocational college, not sure if it counts). 2018 has barely started and you have had 17 school shootings with multiple fatalities. Yes, the US has a population about 20 times larger. But the math is pretty simple, and there is still no comparison in the frequency. If that trend continues (and not only does it continue but it gets more frequent), given that within 5 years about 1 in 1000 schools have been shot up, the same incident doesn't usually happen on the same school twice, you go to a school that hasn't already been shot up and most children spend at least 12 years at school, I think you can see that the odds of your school being shot up and you experiencing trauma as a result are A LOT higher than winning the lottery twice, even if you don't die.

Actually the 17 school shootings stat is inflated. Of the 18, actually, acclaimed school shootings, only 8 of them inloved multiple casualties or even multiple targets. The rest were accidental discharges and even a suicide in an empty school parking lot.
Quote
Quote
The argument is we need to restrict (or as some of the rally leaders and protesters stated outright ban) gun ownership because too many children are dying. Which, if that was their true intent, then there are far more things that kill way more children that are the cause of human nature, such as texting and driving.
Oh really? Like, protest for laws that prohibit texting and driving, or set up campaigns that raise awareness for how dangerous texting and driving is? Oh wait, these laws and campaigns already exist.
Yeah, a hard to read sign passing by or a minute long commercial here and there or if you go on a police department's facebook page or program. That's not the same as media pundits going on for hours at a time about how dangerous texting and driving is or giant rallies raising awareness about the dangers.
Quote
But there's only so much a government can do to restrict the irresponsible behaviour of some people. When it comes to guns however and the subject of school shootings in general, it hardly does ANYTHING substantial to restrict this behaviour, and it's because of people like you who keep distracting from the issue to go on tirades about how they should be talking about something else and disregard the fact that school shootings are an epidemic in the US and schools are no longer an environment where children can feel safe and learn.

Actually there are many restrictions and laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. They aren't being enforced is the problem. The Parkland shooter could've been arrested/committed several times over before he could shoot anyone. And we also have solutions of our own. In my state for example, it is now mandated that there should a police officer or a trained armed guardian for every 1,000 students if I have the number correctly.
The thing about trying to compare texting and driving to school shootings is, text and driving was made into a big deal when there were no laws about it on the books. Now just about every state, if not every state, has a law making it illegal. Some cities have taken it further and made phone use in general an offense. Groups got together to make these laws come about. They didn't just come out of nowhere. Yet when anyone tries to bring up any sort of laws which attempt to address the gun violence issue, they get throw stats about how drunk drivers kill more people than school shooters do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 24, 2018, 10:54:20 PM
The argument was that the media isn't covering the shooting that was stopped by an armed person the way the Santa Fe shooting was. Totes replied with two articles "disproving" the original claim. In, my opinion, the original poster wasn't claiming that the media wasn't covering the other incident at all, but not as frequent as the Santa Fe shooting. Thus my question. Are they covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?

No, Wesker literally said they weren't covering it. And my question is, why WOULD they be covering it the same way, as a story where so many children died? Isn't it obvious that these stories wouldn't be covered the same way, regardless of bias?

I guess so.

Quote
Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is.
I could just as easily say that you intentionally make it sound like it's more of a problem than it actually is.
Quote
Do you know how many schools have been shot up in my country in my lifetime? 1 (there was an incident in 2009 where someone shot at 3 people, thankfully no one died except himself, but that was in a vocational college, not sure if it counts). 2018 has barely started and you have had 17 school shootings with multiple fatalities. Yes, the US has a population about 20 times larger. But the math is pretty simple, and there is still no comparison in the frequency. If that trend continues (and not only does it continue but it gets more frequent), given that within 5 years about 1 in 1000 schools have been shot up, the same incident doesn't usually happen on the same school twice, you go to a school that hasn't already been shot up and most children spend at least 12 years at school, I think you can see that the odds of your school being shot up and you experiencing trauma as a result are A LOT higher than winning the lottery twice, even if you don't die.

Actually the 17 school shootings stat is inflated. Of the 18, actually, acclaimed school shootings, only 8 of them inloved multiple casualties or even multiple targets. The rest were accidental discharges and even a suicide in an empty school parking lot.
Quote
Quote
The argument is we need to restrict (or as some of the rally leaders and protesters stated outright ban) gun ownership because too many children are dying. Which, if that was their true intent, then there are far more things that kill way more children that are the cause of human nature, such as texting and driving.
Oh really? Like, protest for laws that prohibit texting and driving, or set up campaigns that raise awareness for how dangerous texting and driving is? Oh wait, these laws and campaigns already exist.
Yeah, a hard to read sign passing by or a minute long commercial here and there or if you go on a police department's facebook page or program. That's not the same as media pundits going on for hours at a time about how dangerous texting and driving is or giant rallies raising awareness about the dangers.
Quote
But there's only so much a government can do to restrict the irresponsible behaviour of some people. When it comes to guns however and the subject of school shootings in general, it hardly does ANYTHING substantial to restrict this behaviour, and it's because of people like you who keep distracting from the issue to go on tirades about how they should be talking about something else and disregard the fact that school shootings are an epidemic in the US and schools are no longer an environment where children can feel safe and learn.

Actually there are many restrictions and laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. They aren't being enforced is the problem. The Parkland shooter could've been arrested/committed several times over before he could shoot anyone. And we also have solutions of our own. In my state for example, it is now mandated that there should a police officer or a trained armed guardian for every 1,000 students if I have the number correctly.
The thing about trying to compare texting and driving to school shootings is, text and driving was made into a big deal when there were no laws about it on the books. Now just about every state, if not every state, has a law making it illegal. Some cities have taken it further and made phone use in general an offense. Groups got together to make these laws come about. They didn't just come out of nowhere. Yet when anyone tries to bring up any sort of laws which attempt to address the gun violence issue, they get throw stats about how drunk drivers kill more people than school shooters do.

They also get thrown stats on how the proposed guns laws wouldn't work and only hinder law abiding citizens.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 24, 2018, 11:06:03 PM
The argument was that the media isn't covering the shooting that was stopped by an armed person the way the Santa Fe shooting was. Totes replied with two articles "disproving" the original claim. In, my opinion, the original poster wasn't claiming that the media wasn't covering the other incident at all, but not as frequent as the Santa Fe shooting. Thus my question. Are they covering the story like they are with the Santa Fe shooting?

No, Wesker literally said they weren't covering it. And my question is, why WOULD they be covering it the same way, as a story where so many children died? Isn't it obvious that these stories wouldn't be covered the same way, regardless of bias?

I guess so.

Quote
Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is.
I could just as easily say that you intentionally make it sound like it's more of a problem than it actually is.
Quote
Do you know how many schools have been shot up in my country in my lifetime? 1 (there was an incident in 2009 where someone shot at 3 people, thankfully no one died except himself, but that was in a vocational college, not sure if it counts). 2018 has barely started and you have had 17 school shootings with multiple fatalities. Yes, the US has a population about 20 times larger. But the math is pretty simple, and there is still no comparison in the frequency. If that trend continues (and not only does it continue but it gets more frequent), given that within 5 years about 1 in 1000 schools have been shot up, the same incident doesn't usually happen on the same school twice, you go to a school that hasn't already been shot up and most children spend at least 12 years at school, I think you can see that the odds of your school being shot up and you experiencing trauma as a result are A LOT higher than winning the lottery twice, even if you don't die.

Actually the 17 school shootings stat is inflated. Of the 18, actually, acclaimed school shootings, only 8 of them inloved multiple casualties or even multiple targets. The rest were accidental discharges and even a suicide in an empty school parking lot.
Quote
Quote
The argument is we need to restrict (or as some of the rally leaders and protesters stated outright ban) gun ownership because too many children are dying. Which, if that was their true intent, then there are far more things that kill way more children that are the cause of human nature, such as texting and driving.
Oh really? Like, protest for laws that prohibit texting and driving, or set up campaigns that raise awareness for how dangerous texting and driving is? Oh wait, these laws and campaigns already exist.
Yeah, a hard to read sign passing by or a minute long commercial here and there or if you go on a police department's facebook page or program. That's not the same as media pundits going on for hours at a time about how dangerous texting and driving is or giant rallies raising awareness about the dangers.
Quote
But there's only so much a government can do to restrict the irresponsible behaviour of some people. When it comes to guns however and the subject of school shootings in general, it hardly does ANYTHING substantial to restrict this behaviour, and it's because of people like you who keep distracting from the issue to go on tirades about how they should be talking about something else and disregard the fact that school shootings are an epidemic in the US and schools are no longer an environment where children can feel safe and learn.

Actually there are many restrictions and laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. They aren't being enforced is the problem. The Parkland shooter could've been arrested/committed several times over before he could shoot anyone. And we also have solutions of our own. In my state for example, it is now mandated that there should a police officer or a trained armed guardian for every 1,000 students if I have the number correctly.
The thing about trying to compare texting and driving to school shootings is, text and driving was made into a big deal when there were no laws about it on the books. Now just about every state, if not every state, has a law making it illegal. Some cities have taken it further and made phone use in general an offense. Groups got together to make these laws come about. They didn't just come out of nowhere. Yet when anyone tries to bring up any sort of laws which attempt to address the gun violence issue, they get throw stats about how drunk drivers kill more people than school shooters do.

They also get thrown stats on how the proposed guns laws wouldn't work and only hinder law abiding citizens.

Okay, lets get one thing out of the way....


If NOBODY had a gun, there would be ZERO gun related deaths and murders. Correct?

So there is a DIRECT CORRELATION between gun ownership and people getting killed

It has been shown time and time again, you could own a gun and have the best of intentions with it.... But if your boy gets embarrassed at school, all bets are off.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 25, 2018, 12:59:24 AM

Okay, lets get one thing out of the way....


If NOBODY had a gun, there would be ZERO gun related deaths and murders. Correct?

Correct.
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So there is a DIRECT CORRELATION between gun ownership and people getting killed

There are multiple ways of implementing murder and mass murder. In fact, the largest school massacre in the US didn't involved any firearm
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It has been shown time and time again, you could own a gun and have the best of intentions with it.... But if your boy gets embarrassed at school, all bets are off.

Correct.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 25, 2018, 06:34:09 AM
Tell me how not allowing someone who isn't mentally capable of handling their own finances to own a gun isn't a good idea.  Mind you, I'm not talking the ones that do so out of choice, like having a financial advisor, but legitimately have someone with power of attorney over their banking.  Tell me how having background checks at gun shows on all sales is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 25, 2018, 05:08:55 PM
Tell me how not allowing someone who isn't mentally capable of handling their own finances to own a gun isn't a good idea.  Mind you, I'm not talking the ones that do so out of choice, like having a financial advisor, but legitimately have someone with power of attorney over their banking.  Tell me how having background checks at gun shows on all sales is a bad idea.

If giving power of attorney to someone else for their banking is the only thing then why bar them from gun ownership? You may have a point if this was compounded with other things that may be considered mentally ill. As for gun shows. All gun shows require FFLs to run background checks. Tge only people who are exempt are private sellers amd that happens far more often outside of gun shows. The reason why we shouldn't have background checks on private sales is because they don't work.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 26, 2018, 01:58:12 PM
Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is.
I could just as easily say that you intentionally make it sound like it's more of a problem than it actually is. [/quote]

It's really telling how some Americans are willing to minimize the issue in order to avoid having to face the fact that their gun culture is fucked up.


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Actually the 17 school shootings stat is inflated. Of the 18, actually, acclaimed school shootings, only 8 of them inloved multiple casualties or even multiple targets. The rest were accidental discharges and even a suicide in an empty school parking lot.
Who said anything about multiple casualties and whatnot? Besides the shooting I mentioned that happened in my country didn't have casualties either. This changes nothing. I guess you can disregard the suicide. As for the accidenal discharges? Well, does that make anything better? If anything it goes to show you should fix your gun issue. Accidental discharges of guns at schools is something that never happens in other countries. More minimization of the issue. Besides, would it change that much if I backtracked and said that as much school shootings as have ever happened in Europe happen in the US in a single year, instead of half a year?

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Yeah, a hard to read sign passing by or a minute long commercial here and there or if you go on a police department's facebook page or program. That's not the same as media pundits going on for hours at a time about how dangerous texting and driving is or giant rallies raising awareness about the dangers.[/quote[

More deflection. You clearly want to avoid addressing the issue.

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Actually there are many restrictions and laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. They aren't being enforced is the problem.

Yes, that's one of the problems. Another problem is that a lot of the restrictions are baby steps, and they don't work.

Quote
The Parkland shooter could've been arrested/committed several times over before he could shoot anyone. And we also have solutions of our own. In my state for example, it is now mandated that there should a police officer or a trained armed guardian for every 1,000 students if I have the number correctly.

It's very telling that armed guardians are necessary in your schools. And the Parkland shooter was an exception. I mean, they still dropped the ball, but still an exception. He should never have even been able to commit this crime.

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They also get thrown stats on how the proposed guns laws wouldn't work and only hinder law abiding citizens.

So your country is the only country in the developed world where gun control wouldn't work, and you know that for sure even though no serious plan to do that has been implemented. No, the issue is, again, that any restrictions you implement are baby steps, because if anyone tried to take drastic measures, the gun lobby would be unhappy. Also people would throw hissy fits, because the NRA and gun companies have somehow convinced everyone that you can't be considered American unless you have a small army's worth of firearms and ammunition in your shed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 27, 2018, 06:17:41 PM
Quote
Still doesn't change the frequency. If I told you that 2 in 1,000 people wins the lottery, does that make you more likely to win than if I said the statistic in a different fashion?

No, but you intentionally make it sound like it's less of a problem than it actually is.
I could just as easily say that you intentionally make it sound like it's more of a problem than it actually is.

It's really telling how some Americans are willing to minimize the issue in order to avoid having to face the fact that their gun culture is fucked up. [/quote]

Again, I could just as easily say that you're hyping up the issue to avoid the fact that guns are not the problem. We had guns (even scary looking guns) long before we had mass shootings.
Quote

Quote
Actually the 17 school shootings stat is inflated. Of the 18, actually, acclaimed school shootings, only 8 of them inloved multiple casualties or even multiple targets. The rest were accidental discharges and even a suicide in an empty school parking lot.
Who said anything about multiple casualties and whatnot? Besides the shooting I mentioned that happened in my country didn't have casualties either. This changes nothing. I guess you can disregard the suicide. As for the accidenal discharges? Well, does that make anything better? If anything it goes to show you should fix your gun issue. Accidental discharges of guns at schools is something that never happens in other countries. More minimization of the issue. Besides, would it change that much if I backtracked and said that as much school shootings as have ever happened in Europe happen in the US in a single year, instead of half a year?

The fact is that claiming 18 school shootings is disingenuous. When someone says "school shooting" the first thought that comes to mind is a gunman shooting multiple people at a school, not someone so depressed that he decided to commit suicide in an empty parking lot when the school us closed.

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Quote
Yeah, a hard to read sign passing by or a minute long commercial here and there or if you go on a police department's facebook page or program. That's not the same as media pundits going on for hours at a time about how dangerous texting and driving is or giant rallies raising awareness about the dangers.

More deflection. You clearly want to avoid addressing the issue.

It's not deflection. There are no protests to end texting and driving.
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Quote
Actually there are many restrictions and laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. They aren't being enforced is the problem.

Yes, that's one of the problems. Another problem is that a lot of the restrictions are baby steps, and they don't work.

Can you name restrictions that would work?
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Quote
The Parkland shooter could've been arrested/committed several times over before he could shoot anyone. And we also have solutions of our own. In my state for example, it is now mandated that there should a police officer or a trained armed guardian for every 1,000 students if I have the number correctly.

It's very telling that armed guardians are necessary in your schools. And the Parkland shooter was an exception. I mean, they still dropped the ball, but still an exception. He should never have even been able to commit this crime.

Quote
They also get thrown stats on how the proposed guns laws wouldn't work and only hinder law abiding citizens.

So your country is the only country in the developed world where gun control wouldn't work, and you know that for sure even though no serious plan to do that has been implemented. No, the issue is, again, that any restrictions you implement are baby steps, because if anyone tried to take drastic measures, the gun lobby would be unhappy. Also people would throw hissy fits, because the NRA and gun companies have somehow convinced everyone that you can't be considered American unless you have a small army's worth of firearms and ammunition in your shed.

Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 27, 2018, 07:47:20 PM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2018, 08:12:43 PM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.

So, how do you people kill each other now?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on May 27, 2018, 08:16:48 PM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.

So, how do you people kill each other now?

Snakes, spiders, dingos, knoives, dehydration, syphilis-infected koalas... I suspect Australia is the land of opportunity for that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2018, 08:20:14 PM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.

So, how do you people kill each other now?

Snakes, spiders, dingos, knoives, dehydration, syphilis-infected koalas... I suspect Australia is the land of opportunity for that kind of thing.

So they have more options.
Sounds like Australian Privilege to me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 27, 2018, 09:48:48 PM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.

So, how do you people kill each other now?

Snakes, spiders, dingos, knoives, dehydration, syphilis-infected koalas... I suspect Australia is the land of opportunity for that kind of thing.

So they have more options.
Sounds like Australian Privilege to me.

You forgot crocodiles and drop bears.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2018, 10:27:03 PM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.

So, how do you people kill each other now?

Snakes, spiders, dingos, knoives, dehydration, syphilis-infected koalas... I suspect Australia is the land of opportunity for that kind of thing.

So they have more options.
Sounds like Australian Privilege to me.

You forgot crocodiles and drop bears.


Seriously, how do you all kill each other?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 28, 2018, 03:42:56 AM
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.

I live in rural Australia.  I opposed the gun laws when they were brought in,  these days people have gotten used to it.   People still get shot,  but nothing like the USA.

So, how do you people kill each other now?

Snakes, spiders, dingos, knoives, dehydration, syphilis-infected koalas... I suspect Australia is the land of opportunity for that kind of thing.

So they have more options.
Sounds like Australian Privilege to me.

You forgot crocodiles and drop bears.


Seriously, how do you all kill each other?

Really funny jokes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 28, 2018, 06:27:14 AM
Again, I could just as easily say that you're hyping up the issue to avoid the fact that guns are not the problem. We had guns (even scary looking guns) long before we had mass shootings.

First of all, you always had mass shootings, more than other countries without guns. It's just that there are more now. Second, you have MORE guns now, and a weird attitude towards them, probably due to propaganda. Not trying to say guns are the only reason this is happening, but it's a major contributor. You pretending it's a non issue won't change the fact that it is.

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The fact is that claiming 18 school shootings is disingenuous. When someone says "school shooting" the first thought that comes to mind is a gunman shooting multiple people at a school, not someone so depressed that he decided to commit suicide in an empty parking lot when the school us closed.

First of all, I said 17, not 18, which doesn't include your suicide. Second, you're just missing the point yet again. Whether it is 17 or 18 or 16, the fact doesn't change that it's an absurdly high rate.

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It's not deflection. There are no protests to end texting and driving.

Which is not the issue here because the issue is not texting and driving. You're deflecting. What do you expect to happen if people protested to end texting and driving? There are already laws to prevent that and there's little more that can be done. This is just more lame whataboutism. You can apply this to almost every issue people want to protest about.

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Can you name restrictions that would work?

Strict enforcement of a law banning ownership of guns for teens and children. Restrictions to how much ammo you can buy. Restrictions to what types of guns you can buy. Possibly buyback programs. Stricter testing to warrant a license and requirement of license to use and buy guns. These are just a few.

Quote
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.
Like Australia, the UK and Switzerland? Although to be fair it's hard to find an analogous case because no other country has had a comparable mass shooting/school shooting issue with the US, and most countries have had strict gun laws for decades.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 28, 2018, 05:00:03 PM

Seriously, how do you all kill each other?

Really funny jokes.

If that fails there's always a wood chipper somewhere nearby. 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-29/woodchipper-death-two-men-arrested-gympie/9810366
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 28, 2018, 06:09:15 PM
Again, I could just as easily say that you're hyping up the issue to avoid the fact that guns are not the problem. We had guns (even scary looking guns) long before we had mass shootings.

First of all, you always had mass shootings, more than other countries without guns. It's just that there are more now. Second, you have MORE guns now, and a weird attitude towards them, probably due to propaganda. Not trying to say guns are the only reason this is happening, but it's a major contributor. You pretending it's a non issue won't change the fact that it is.

The first mass shooting where the target was innocent bystanders, was back in the 50's. Hardly meets the definition of "we always had mass shootings." I will grant that we had cases like the Valentine massacre but that was between gang members. Also, while true we have more guns now, that's not indicative to how many people own guns. Most gun homicides happens in states and cities with stricter laws. California has the highest amount of mass shootings yet they have some the strictest laws in the country.
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The fact is that claiming 18 school shootings is disingenuous. When someone says "school shooting" the first thought that comes to mind is a gunman shooting multiple people at a school, not someone so depressed that he decided to commit suicide in an empty parking lot when the school us closed.

First of all, I said 17, not 18, which doesn't include your suicide. Second, you're just missing the point yet again. Whether it is 17 or 18 or 16, the fact doesn't change that it's an absurdly high rate.

It isn't when compared to other crime even in the same category and the population as a whole.

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It's not deflection. There are no protests to end texting and driving.

Which is not the issue here because the issue is not texting and driving. You're deflecting. What do you expect to happen if people protested to end texting and driving? There are already laws to prevent that and there's little more that can be done. This is just more lame whataboutism. You can apply this to almost every issue people want to protest about.

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Can you name restrictions that would work?

Strict enforcement of a law banning ownership of guns for teens and children.

I can go with that as long it doesn't bar children who are directly supervised by an adult from ever touching a firearm.

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Restrictions to how much ammo you can buy.

Why? How would that prevent any mass shooting? The recent shooter used a shotgun and a revolver and those things don't hold much to begin with. Also how much ammo in your opinion is too much? Plus, what about those who already have stockpiles of ammo to begin with?
Quote
Restrictions to what types of guns you can buy.

Why? Most mass shootings are done with handguns.

Quote
Possibly buyback programs.
That failed in places like New jersey and California, and they are among the most willing states to participate in it. How much more do you think it will work well in states like Texas?
Quote
Stricter testing to warrant a license and requirement of license to use and buy guns. These are just a few.

There is little evidence that stricter testing reduces crime. Illinois requires gun owners to have a license to even own a gun, and applying for a carry permit is even worse. Yet they have a high gun crime rate.
Quote

Quote
Evidence that gun control works would being able to point to a city/state/country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced their gun homicides/homicides/violent crime.
Like Australia, the UK and Switzerland? Although to be fair it's hard to find an analogous case because no other country has had a comparable mass shooting/school shooting issue with the US, and most countries have had strict gun laws for decades.

I'm giving you leniency. You don't have to stick with mass shootings to prove your case. You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 29, 2018, 06:04:06 AM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on May 29, 2018, 06:35:36 AM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 29, 2018, 07:43:10 AM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)

Are you sure about that?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ixWKBLKub3ze-3KrQI2mc8c41Bw=/0x0:800x553/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:800x553):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9371563/firearm_suicides_australia.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 29, 2018, 08:04:00 AM
I looked at the list of "18" school shootings that has been thrown about. There are about 6 on that list that shouldn't be on there, such as dorm shootings or at sports events. That still leaves more than 2 school shootings a month.

Something has to be done. I also don't see why we should allow anyone who cannot be trusted to take care of their own finances with being trusted to properly handle a firearm. It's mind-boggling. You can't hurt someone by misusing your own money, at least within reason, you can very easily hurt someone by misusing a firearm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on May 29, 2018, 08:14:18 AM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)

Are you sure about that?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ixWKBLKub3ze-3KrQI2mc8c41Bw=/0x0:800x553/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:800x553):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9371563/firearm_suicides_australia.0.jpg)

Your chart shows that suicides have been trending downwards steadily since the mid 80s as well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 29, 2018, 08:41:46 AM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)
That looks like a pretty sharp drop, downward trend aside.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 29, 2018, 08:42:53 AM
Your chart shows that suicides have been trending downwards steadily since the mid 80s as well.

Less guns == less people getting shot.   Not hard to figure out if you try.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 29, 2018, 09:22:55 AM
The first mass shooting where the target was innocent bystanders, was back in the 50's. Hardly meets the definition of "we always had mass shootings." I will grant that we had cases like the Valentine massacre but that was between gang members. Also, while true we have more guns now, that's not indicative to how many people own guns. Most gun homicides happens in states and cities with stricter laws. California has the highest amount of mass shootings yet they have some the strictest laws in the country.

By "always" I didn't mean back to the creation of your country. But they're not a new thing. They've been pretty common since the 80s. And you keep throwing that line about how most gun homicides are in states with strict laws, but, again, that's just false. And yes, California does indeed rank pretty high in the mass shootings scale (I'm not sure if it's the highest though). Should be kind of expected given it's by far the most populous  ::) In terms of gun violence per capita, it ranks pretty darn low.

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It isn't when compared to other crime even in the same category and the population as a whole.

I... already demonstrated it is absurdly high compared to the population. And shouldn't it be kind of obvious that it's not as common as other crimes? Doesn't make it any less of a problem.

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Why? Most mass shootings are done with handguns.

Not the deadliest ones, you can't kill as many people with a handgun as you can with a semi automatic rifle. Also many countries have banned handguns, because of how easily you can conceal them, which makes them very popular for criminals.

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Possibly buyback programs.
That failed in places like New jersey and California, and they are among the most willing states to participate in it. How much more do you think it will work well in states like Texas?[/quote]

To be fair, given your gun culture, it's unlikely they will work very well.

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There is little evidence that stricter testing reduces crime. Illinois requires gun owners to have a license to even own a gun, and applying for a carry permit is even worse. Yet they have a high gun crime rate.

Not really, they rank 34th in overall gun violence and they're about average in terms of gun murders. But what's really an issue is that the laws aren't enforced very well. Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns. I don't understand why anyone would oppose strict testing and background checks.


Quote

I'm giving you leniency. You don't have to stick with mass shootings to prove your case. You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.
They worked for Australia. It's a bit dubious what they did for the UK, because they never had that many gun murders to begin with, and they never really cared that much about guns anyways, it was done more to prevent mass shootings from happening again. I don't really know many other countries that relatively recently started enforcing significantly stricter gun laws, and definitely none that had the attitude of the US before.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 11:16:15 AM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 29, 2018, 11:55:25 AM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?
Before you are granted a license, they do background checks and psychological testing to make sure you're not a nutter who's gonna shoot up a school.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 29, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 29, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 29, 2018, 03:11:48 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.

And maybe she complains about not finding a decent guy after that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 29, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.

And maybe she complains about not finding a decent guy after that.

I'm going to be a little judgemental here and say that a guy who commits mass murder probably doesn't qualify as decent.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 29, 2018, 03:27:24 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.

And maybe she complains about not finding a decent guy after that.

I'm going to be a little judgemental here and say that a guy who commits mass murder probably doesn't qualify as decent.

Not sure if the "best intentions" guy was meant for the mass murderer, I thought it refered to the ones trying to regulate guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 03:30:41 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?
Before you are granted a license, they do background checks and psychological testing to make sure you're not a nutter who's gonna shoot up a school.


And now murder has been reduced to an acceptable level?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 29, 2018, 03:43:59 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.

And maybe she complains about not finding a decent guy after that.

I'm going to be a little judgemental here and say that a guy who commits mass murder probably doesn't qualify as decent.

Not sure if the "best intentions" guy was meant for the mass murderer, I thought it refered to the ones trying to regulate guns.

I meant that a gun owning parent can do all the right things and they themselves would never hurt a soul with a gun. But if their greasy shithead kid gets rejected at school and gets a little angry, he can grab the guns and mass murder people over it.

Just because you have an unloaded gun, locked in a safe with bullets locked somewhere else, doesn't mean your kid cant access it if he really wants it. If you can access it, so can he.

As much as I hate guns and enjoy my civilian free gun law life here in Oz, the reality is, the people who commit these crimes, will move heaven and earth to get hold of a gun to commit these atrocities. The problem is the culture.

I remember watching an episode of the Simpsons but there was one scene that was cut from Australian TV that I saw on a downloaded episode. It was the episode where the character 'Snake' breaks into the Simpsons house annoyed with their singing (on of those singing story episodes). Anyway, for Australian audiences they cut out the bit where Snake points the gun to every Simpsons character (including the baby) and pulls the trigger going click click click etc, without any hesitation. The only thing saving them was that he was out of bullets. For you guys, maybe that's normal, for me, I found that quite disgusting for a cartoon aimed at entertaining children. Your culture has a lot of hideous aspects to it.

Just saying  8)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on May 29, 2018, 04:01:18 PM
I meant that a gun owning parent can do all the right things and they themselves would never hurt a soul with a gun. But if their greasy shithead kid gets rejected at school and gets a little angry, he can grab the guns and mass murder people over it.

Just because you have an unloaded gun, locked in a safe with bullets locked somewhere else, doesn't mean your kid cant access it if he really wants it. If you can access it, so can he.

As much as I hate guns and enjoy my civilian free gun law life here in Oz, the reality is, the people who commit these crimes, will move heaven and earth to get hold of a gun to commit these atrocities. The problem is the culture.

I remember watching an episode of the Simpsons but there was one scene that was cut from Australian TV that I saw on a downloaded episode. It was the episode where the character 'Snake' breaks into the Simpsons house annoyed with their singing (on of those singing story episodes). Anyway, for Australian audiences they cut out the bit where Snake points the gun to every Simpsons character (including the baby) and pulls the trigger going click click click etc, without any hesitation. The only thing saving them was that he was out of bullets. For you guys, maybe that's normal, for me, I found that quite disgusting for a cartoon aimed at entertaining children. Your culture has a lot of hideous aspects to it.

Just saying  8)

I mean, if the parent lets his keys around then he's an idiot. It's obvious, and I'm positive it is enforced to be sure nobody but you can get their hands on the guns.

Plus I believe the fact that automatic weapons are banned helps with preventing mass shootings.
I never claimed that these regulations would be the 100% bulletproof way to get rid of mass shootings, but it surely helps.

I don't really care about violence in the Simpsons, maybe it affects people in different ways, I don't know.

I can agree the culture is big part of the problem, but guns and regulations are the other.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 29, 2018, 04:03:35 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.

And maybe she complains about not finding a decent guy after that.

I'm going to be a little judgemental here and say that a guy who commits mass murder probably doesn't qualify as decent.

Not sure if the "best intentions" guy was meant for the mass murderer, I thought it refered to the ones trying to regulate guns.

I meant that a gun owning parent can do all the right things and they themselves would never hurt a soul with a gun. But if their greasy shithead kid gets rejected at school and gets a little angry, he can grab the guns and mass murder people over it.

Just because you have an unloaded gun, locked in a safe with bullets locked somewhere else, doesn't mean your kid cant access it if he really wants it. If you can access it, so can he.

As much as I hate guns and enjoy my civilian free gun law life here in Oz, the reality is, the people who commit these crimes, will move heaven and earth to get hold of a gun to commit these atrocities. The problem is the culture.

I remember watching an episode of the Simpsons but there was one scene that was cut from Australian TV that I saw on a downloaded episode. It was the episode where the character 'Snake' breaks into the Simpsons house annoyed with their singing (on of those singing story episodes). Anyway, for Australian audiences they cut out the bit where Snake points the gun to every Simpsons character (including the baby) and pulls the trigger going click click click etc, without any hesitation. The only thing saving them was that he was out of bullets. For you guys, maybe that's normal, for me, I found that quite disgusting for a cartoon aimed at entertaining children. Your culture has a lot of hideous aspects to it.

Just saying  8)

That's why jesus invented gun safes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 05:02:25 PM

That's why jesus invented gun safes.


He needs to grow some balls and tell his dad to stop making crazy people.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 29, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
I don't really care about violence in the Simpsons, maybe it affects people in different ways, I don't know.

It's the small shit like this in popular culture that adds up and can desensitize youth into thinking it's normal. No they wont think its 'normal' in the traditional sense of the word, but elements of it over time, sure.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 29, 2018, 08:48:12 PM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)

Are you sure about that?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ixWKBLKub3ze-3KrQI2mc8c41Bw=/0x0:800x553/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:800x553):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9371563/firearm_suicides_australia.0.jpg)

It was on a steep decline before the ban. Draw a straight line through and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 08:52:05 PM

It's the small shit like this in popular culture that adds up and can desensitize youth into thinking it's normal. No they wont think its 'normal' in the traditional sense of the word, but elements of it over time, sure.


Are you destabilized by things you see or is it just everyone else?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 29, 2018, 09:14:25 PM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)

Are you sure about that?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ixWKBLKub3ze-3KrQI2mc8c41Bw=/0x0:800x553/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:800x553):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9371563/firearm_suicides_australia.0.jpg)

It was on a steep decline before the ban. Draw a straight line through and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Lets do Americas favourite and rule out all deaths relating to suicide. Then lets remove all deaths related to criminal/bikie gangs

How many people before the ban were random innocent people caught up in this violence and how many deaths of innocents after the ban

Make no mistake, we had 'mass shootings' every year up until the ban. Like it or not, the ban has ensured there are people alive today that would not have been had there been no gun ban.

It's funny how advocates of guns have no problem showing graphs of gun deaths in other countries using the full numbers but when it comes to their own country they are like, 'oh but half of those are from suicide, you cant count those'
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 29, 2018, 09:17:34 PM
The first mass shooting where the target was innocent bystanders, was back in the 50's. Hardly meets the definition of "we always had mass shootings." I will grant that we had cases like the Valentine massacre but that was between gang members. Also, while true we have more guns now, that's not indicative to how many people own guns. Most gun homicides happens in states and cities with stricter laws. California has the highest amount of mass shootings yet they have some the strictest laws in the country.

By "always" I didn't mean back to the creation of your country. But they're not a new thing. They've been pretty common since the 80s. And you keep throwing that line about how most gun homicides are in states with strict laws, but, again, that's just false.
Actually it's true, though it's a slight difference.



Quote
And yes, California does indeed rank pretty high in the mass shootings scale (I'm not sure if it's the highest though). Should be kind of expected given it's by far the most populous  ::) In terms of gun violence per capita, it ranks pretty darn low.

I couldn't find a stat that doesn't include suicide by gun. However, I did found that California is pretty much equal to other states when counting homicides in general.

(https://rajsivaraman.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/screen-shot-2012-12-21-at-12-37-50-pm.png?w=766)
Quote
Quote
It isn't when compared to other crime even in the same category and the population as a whole.

I... already demonstrated it is absurdly high compared to the population. And shouldn't it be kind of obvious that it's not as common as other crimes? Doesn't make it any less of a problem.

Quote
Why? Most mass shootings are done with handguns.

Not the deadliest ones, you can't kill as many people with a handgun as you can with a semi automatic rifle. Also many countries have banned handguns, because of how easily you can conceal them, which makes them very popular for criminals.[/quote]

The VT shooter had ten round magazines and pistols. The Parkland shooter had ten round magazines for his AR because they were easier to conceal. The Sandy Hook shooter never ran through his magazines. The Pusle shooter was there for I believe 40 minutes and ran through multiple magazines and no one decided to charge him when he was reloading.. What evidence do you have that most of the deadliest mass shootings were done with so called assault rifles.
Quote
Quote
Possibly buyback programs.
That failed in places like New jersey and California, and they are among the most willing states to participate in it. How much more do you think it will work well in states like Texas?

To be fair, given your gun culture, it's unlikely they will work very well.[/quote]

Well at least that's something we agree on.
Quote
Quote
There is little evidence that stricter testing reduces crime. Illinois requires gun owners to have a license to even own a gun, and applying for a carry permit is even worse. Yet they have a high gun crime rate.

Not really, they rank 34th in overall gun violence and they're about average in terms of gun murders. But what's really an issue is that the laws aren't enforced very well. Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns. I don't understand why anyone would oppose strict testing and background checks.

How do you know they aren't enforcing the training requirements to legally obtain a firearm?

Quote
Quote

I'm giving you leniency. You don't have to stick with mass shootings to prove your case. You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.
They worked for Australia. It's a bit dubious what they did for the UK, because they never had that many gun murders to begin with, and they never really cared that much about guns anyways, it was done more to prevent mass shootings from happening again. I don't really know many other countries that relatively recently started enforcing significantly stricter gun laws, and definitely none that had the attitude of the US before.

Okay then.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 29, 2018, 09:20:38 PM
You can show a country that implemented gun control and drastically reduced it's gun crime as a result.

Australia. 


Gun deaths in Australia were already trending down before your control laws and that trend did not change.  To say that the gun control laws were responsible for there being fewer gun deaths is deceitful.

(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f/image.jpg)

Are you sure about that?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ixWKBLKub3ze-3KrQI2mc8c41Bw=/0x0:800x553/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:800x553):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9371563/firearm_suicides_australia.0.jpg)

It was on a steep decline before the ban. Draw a straight line through and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Lets do Americas favourite and rule out all deaths relating to suicide. Then lets remove all deaths related to criminal/bikie gangs

How many people before the ban were random innocent people caught up in this violence and how many deaths of innocents after the ban

Make no mistake, we had 'mass shootings' every year up until the ban. Like it or not, the ban has ensured there are people alive today that would not have been had there been no gun ban.

It's funny how advocates of guns have no problem showing graphs of gun deaths in other countries using the full numbers but when it comes to their own country they are like, 'oh but half of those are from suicide, you cant count those'

Actually, you had such a minuscule amount of mass shootings (at least by the definition of a gunman shoots random people in a public area) that you can't really say that the ban stopped the shootings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 29, 2018, 09:50:10 PM
Hmm. Sure. Lets let people with more intellect than a gun loving yank articulate it

https://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2018/03/13/gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-in-australia.html

Quote
The odds that a 22-year absence of mass shootings in Australia since 1996 gun reforms are due to chance are one in 200,000, new research reveals.

Published today in the Annals of Internal Medicine, scholars at the University of Sydney and Macquarie University used mathematical techniques to test the null hypothesis that the rate of mass shootings in Australia before and after the 1996 law reforms is unchanged.

The National Firearms Agreement, enacted after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania in which 35 died and another 23 were seriously injured, saw the destruction of more than a million firearms—perhaps a third of the country's private gun stock.
" Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia's gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here. "
Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman, University of Sydney

The Agreement included uniform gun registration, repudiation of self-defence as a legitimate reason to hold a firearm licence, mandatory locked storage, a ban on mail order sales and standardised penalties, and the banning of semi-automatic rifles and pump action shot guns from civilian ownership.

Its provisions were subsequently enacted in national, state and territory legislation across Australia.

In the 18 years up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were 13-gun homicides in which five or more people died, not including the perpetrator. In the 22 years since, there have been no such incidents.

“Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia’s gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here,” says the paper’s lead author, Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman of the University of Sydney.

“However, some scholars and members of the gun lobby have argued that since mass shootings are relatively rare events, the concentration of incidents in one decade and their absence in another decade is merely a statistical anomaly.”

For example, Australian researcher Dr Samara McPhedran writing in The Conversation said: “Mass shootings are rare events, and the long gap between incidents post-1996 may simply reflect a return to a more ‘normal’ state of affairs, similar to the years before 1987.”
" Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked. "
Associate Professor Philip Alpers, University of Sydney

"This was no accident," says the new study’s co-author Associate Professor Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney.

"Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked.

"Gun lobby-affiliated and other researchers have been saying for years that mass shootings are such rare events it could have been a matter of luck they dropped off in the wake of Australia's gun control laws," says Alpers. "Instead, we found the odds against this hypothesis are 200,000 to one."

In related news, Tasmania's re-elected Premier has defended the Liberals' policy to relax the state's gun laws, despite an outcry from survivors of the Port Arthur shooting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 10:02:51 PM

. . . you can't kill as many people with a handgun as you can with a semi automatic rifle.

Why not? One bullet - one kill, is possible with any firearm.

A revolver is a semi-automatic assault pistol.
The problem is not the shape of the tool or the nomenclature.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 30, 2018, 12:50:42 AM
I couldn't find a stat that doesn't include suicide by gun. However, I did found that California is pretty much equal to other states when counting homicides in general.

Yes, homicides in general are high in Cali. But gun deaths in general are low, and also mass shooting RATES aren't as high as you claim.

Quote
The VT shooter had ten round magazines and pistols. The Parkland shooter had ten round magazines for his AR because they were easier to conceal. The Sandy Hook shooter never ran through his magazines. The Pusle shooter was there for I believe 40 minutes and ran through multiple magazines and no one decided to charge him when he was reloading.. What evidence do you have that most of the deadliest mass shootings were done with so called assault rifles.
Um, most of the things you mentioned aren't handguns. My evidence would be just looking at the deadliest mass shootings. Including the ones you mentioned that were done with assault rifles. But as I said, many countries have banned handguns, or only permit certain revolvers, exactly because they're easy to conceal. Also, another thing I forgot, what's with people being able to buy THAT many guns and magazines? Why can you own like 15 assault rifles and 50 magazines?
 
Quote
How do you know they aren't enforcing the training requirements to legally obtain a firearm?

I don't know exactly what the requierements are in every state, but the fact that so many nutters legally buy them is evidence that either their requirements aren't good enough, or they're not enforcing them right.

Also I can't watch the video because I'm on mobile data, but as I said, I did some research a while ago, and I figured the gun homicide rates in states with strict gun laws are about the same, even when including outliers like DC, although I guess the strict/loose distinction is kind of arbitrary.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 30, 2018, 12:56:17 AM
 

. . . you can't kill as many people with a handgun as you can with a semi automatic rifle.

Why not? One bullet - one kill, is possible with any firearm.

A revolver is a semi-automatic assault pistol.
The problem is not the shape of the tool or the nomenclature.
Depending on the context, you can kill the same number of people. However, handguns don't have the same range, and they can't sustain continuous firing for as long because you have to change the magazine. Some people are stopoed while reloading. And some other people couldn't have killed as many people just with handguns, like the Las Vegas shooter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 30, 2018, 01:40:59 AM
BTW, the USofA has never been a Democracy. It has always been a Representative Republic.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on May 30, 2018, 01:54:51 AM
A Representative Republic is a form of democracy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 30, 2018, 02:05:45 AM
A Representative Republic is a form of democracy.

Reported for contradicting a Curator.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 03:24:37 AM

. . . you can't kill as many people with a handgun as you can with a semi automatic rifle.

Why not? One bullet - one kill, is possible with any firearm.

A revolver is a semi-automatic assault pistol.
The problem is not the shape of the tool or the nomenclature.

I think the quote function messed up. DNO was the one that said that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 30, 2018, 03:28:31 AM

. . . you can't kill as many people with a handgun as you can with a semi automatic rifle.

Why not? One bullet - one kill, is possible with any firearm.

A revolver is a semi-automatic assault pistol.
The problem is not the shape of the tool or the nomenclature.

I think the quote function messed up. DNO was the one that said that.

I'll take credit for the fuck up.   ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 03:38:40 AM
Hmm. Sure. Lets let people with more intellect than a gun loving yank articulate it

https://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2018/03/13/gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-in-australia.html

Quote
The odds that a 22-year absence of mass shootings in Australia since 1996 gun reforms are due to chance are one in 200,000, new research reveals.

Published today in the Annals of Internal Medicine, scholars at the University of Sydney and Macquarie University used mathematical techniques to test the null hypothesis that the rate of mass shootings in Australia before and after the 1996 law reforms is unchanged.

The National Firearms Agreement, enacted after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania in which 35 died and another 23 were seriously injured, saw the destruction of more than a million firearms—perhaps a third of the country's private gun stock.
" Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia's gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here. "
Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman, University of Sydney

The Agreement included uniform gun registration, repudiation of self-defence as a legitimate reason to hold a firearm licence, mandatory locked storage, a ban on mail order sales and standardised penalties, and the banning of semi-automatic rifles and pump action shot guns from civilian ownership.

Its provisions were subsequently enacted in national, state and territory legislation across Australia.

In the 18 years up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were 13-gun homicides in which five or more people died, not including the perpetrator. In the 22 years since, there have been no such incidents.

“Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia’s gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here,” says the paper’s lead author, Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman of the University of Sydney.

“However, some scholars and members of the gun lobby have argued that since mass shootings are relatively rare events, the concentration of incidents in one decade and their absence in another decade is merely a statistical anomaly.”

For example, Australian researcher Dr Samara McPhedran writing in The Conversation said: “Mass shootings are rare events, and the long gap between incidents post-1996 may simply reflect a return to a more ‘normal’ state of affairs, similar to the years before 1987.”
" Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked. "
Associate Professor Philip Alpers, University of Sydney

"This was no accident," says the new study’s co-author Associate Professor Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney.

"Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked.

"Gun lobby-affiliated and other researchers have been saying for years that mass shootings are such rare events it could have been a matter of luck they dropped off in the wake of Australia's gun control laws," says Alpers. "Instead, we found the odds against this hypothesis are 200,000 to one."

In related news, Tasmania's re-elected Premier has defended the Liberals' policy to relax the state's gun laws, despite an outcry from survivors of the Port Arthur shooting.

First of all, that's an opinion piece. I can post an opinion piece for the opposite.

https://www.quora.com/If-gun-laws-in-1996-in-Australia-stopped-mass-shootings-why-do-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-America-have-the-toughest-gun-regulations

But, here's a couple of videos explaining my point.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 03:49:34 AM
I couldn't find a stat that doesn't include suicide by gun. However, I did found that California is pretty much equal to other states when counting homicides in general.

Yes, homicides in general are high in Cali. But gun deaths in general are low, and also mass shooting RATES aren't as high as you claim.

I wasn't arguing about gun deaths in general. I was arguing about gun homicides. And while Cali isn't that high above the average in terms of mass shootings, you would think that with there laws, their mass shooting rate would almost null.
Quote
Quote
The VT shooter had ten round magazines and pistols. The Parkland shooter had ten round magazines for his AR because they were easier to conceal. The Sandy Hook shooter never ran through his magazines. The Pusle shooter was there for I believe 40 minutes and ran through multiple magazines and no one decided to charge him when he was reloading.. What evidence do you have that most of the deadliest mass shootings were done with so called assault rifles.
Um, most of the things you mentioned aren't handguns.
Yet a lot of them had ten round magazines. If your argument against ARs is ammo capacity, then there are plenty of handguns that exceed ten rounds.

Quote
My evidence would be just looking at the deadliest mass shootings. Including the ones you mentioned that were done with assault rifles. But as I said, many countries have banned handguns, or only permit certain revolvers, exactly because they're easy to conceal. Also, another thing I forgot, what's with people being able to buy THAT many guns and magazines? Why can you own like 15 assault rifles and 50 magazines?

Why do women needs 50 pairs of shoes or why you need more than one car? As long as a person is law abiding, it doesn't matter if he owns enough guns to arm the entire US military twice over. Even if he had ill intent with that many firearms, he can only wield two at most.
 
Quote
Quote
How do you know they aren't enforcing the training requirements to legally obtain a firearm?

I don't know exactly what the requierements are in every state, but the fact that so many nutters legally buy them is evidence that either their requirements aren't good enough, or they're not enforcing them right.

Or maybe they weren't a threat when they bought the firearms even under the most stringent requirements. There are police officers who go through a whole lot more that snapped and killed someone.
Quote
Also I can't watch the video because I'm on mobile data, but as I said, I did some research a while ago, and I figured the gun homicide rates in states with strict gun laws are about the same, even when including outliers like DC, although I guess the strict/loose distinction is kind of arbitrary.

Once your on a PC go watch it. It's not a huge difference I'll admit but it is noticeable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 30, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
Just curious Luke,  do you accept that tighter gun control measures are a good thing?   If so, what measures would you suggest.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 30, 2018, 05:59:13 AM
I wasn't arguing about gun deaths in general. I was arguing about gun homicides. And while Cali isn't that high above the average in terms of mass shootings, you would think that with there laws, their mass shooting rate would almost null.

Not really. One reason I wouldn't expect that to be the case is that I know many counties of California don't really give a shit about enforcing those laws. Not only that, California gun ownership rates are still incredibly high, even with the laws, which are strict, but only for US standards. Guns and stockpiles of ammunition are still readily available to more or less anyone. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the laws to completely nullify the issue, especially when they're on a state and not a federal level.
Quote
Yet a lot of them had ten round magazines. If your argument against ARs is ammo capacity, then there are plenty of handguns that exceed ten rounds.

First of all, I didn't really try to make an argument against handguns in particular. But assault rifles have other characteristics that can make them very deadly, such as their range, accuracy and firepower. But of course large magazines can be pretty useful for criminals too. Actually, they're mostly useful JUST for criminals and maybe the police in certain cases, you don't really need a large magazine for hunting or target shooting or selfe defense.

Quote
Why do women needs 50 pairs of shoes or why you need more than one car?

I don't. If people having 50 pairs of shoes or more than one car for each person was a potential danger for people, then I wouldn't really mind restrictions.

Quote
As long as a person is law abiding, it doesn't matter if he owns enough guns to arm the entire US military twice over. Even if he had ill intent with that many firearms, he can only wield two at most.

Is that why the Las Vegas shooter had 14 assault rifles and lots of magazines with him?

Quote
Or maybe they weren't a threat when they bought the firearms even under the most stringent requirements.
But I know some countries have instituted checks to retain your license. On the other hand, there have been cases in the US where people who obviously shouldn't have been granted access to guns (even per the law) do end up having access to them anyways because of bad law enforcement, like the recent case with the person who shot up that fast food place. Then you have all the states that don't even have those checks, and you can see a lot of these people wouldn't have been granted a license if there was a law in place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on May 30, 2018, 06:31:31 AM
Every state does background checks.  It is federal law.  The only exception is private sales, however this will probably change soon even though very few of these mass shooting idiots obtain their weapons that way.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 30, 2018, 07:14:26 AM
Every state does background checks.  It is federal law.  The only exception is private sales, however this will probably change soon even though very few of these mass shooting idiots obtain their weapons that way.
I'm not talking just about background checks. I'm talking about requirements to have a license, which is obtained not just by criminal background checks, but also psychological testing and past aggression.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 30, 2018, 07:48:41 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Here is a long winded explanation of what that means . . .

https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 30, 2018, 10:40:58 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Here is a long winded explanation of what that means . . .

https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm
    Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

    Section 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.


I wonder what happened to that one...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on May 30, 2018, 12:03:46 PM
Plenty of european countries have very strict testing and they actually enforce it and it works pretty well to make sure criminals don't end up with guns.

What is testing and how is it enforced?

You need to accomplish various steps to get a permit and even that has limitations of what kind of gun and how many you are allowed to have.

And the guns have to be locked in a safe, unloaded, with bullets locked somewhere else.

And you can't have more than like 200 bullets.

And you're getting checked every now and then by the officers.

And no automatic weapons.

You can have all the best intentions in the world, but if some girl doesn't want to have sex with your zit faced greasy teenage kid, all bets are off.

And maybe she complains about not finding a decent guy after that.

I'm going to be a little judgemental here and say that a guy who commits mass murder probably doesn't qualify as decent.
You'd be surprised at how many groupies mass murderers attract.
https://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/fatal-attraction-10-serial-killers-with-obsessive-groupies/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2018, 02:24:31 PM
Hmm. Sure. Lets let people with more intellect than a gun loving yank articulate it

https://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2018/03/13/gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-in-australia.html

Quote
The odds that a 22-year absence of mass shootings in Australia since 1996 gun reforms are due to chance are one in 200,000, new research reveals.

Published today in the Annals of Internal Medicine, scholars at the University of Sydney and Macquarie University used mathematical techniques to test the null hypothesis that the rate of mass shootings in Australia before and after the 1996 law reforms is unchanged.

The National Firearms Agreement, enacted after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania in which 35 died and another 23 were seriously injured, saw the destruction of more than a million firearms—perhaps a third of the country's private gun stock.
" Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia's gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here. "
Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman, University of Sydney

The Agreement included uniform gun registration, repudiation of self-defence as a legitimate reason to hold a firearm licence, mandatory locked storage, a ban on mail order sales and standardised penalties, and the banning of semi-automatic rifles and pump action shot guns from civilian ownership.

Its provisions were subsequently enacted in national, state and territory legislation across Australia.

In the 18 years up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were 13-gun homicides in which five or more people died, not including the perpetrator. In the 22 years since, there have been no such incidents.

“Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia’s gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here,” says the paper’s lead author, Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman of the University of Sydney.

“However, some scholars and members of the gun lobby have argued that since mass shootings are relatively rare events, the concentration of incidents in one decade and their absence in another decade is merely a statistical anomaly.”

For example, Australian researcher Dr Samara McPhedran writing in The Conversation said: “Mass shootings are rare events, and the long gap between incidents post-1996 may simply reflect a return to a more ‘normal’ state of affairs, similar to the years before 1987.”
" Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked. "
Associate Professor Philip Alpers, University of Sydney

"This was no accident," says the new study’s co-author Associate Professor Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney.

"Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked.

"Gun lobby-affiliated and other researchers have been saying for years that mass shootings are such rare events it could have been a matter of luck they dropped off in the wake of Australia's gun control laws," says Alpers. "Instead, we found the odds against this hypothesis are 200,000 to one."

In related news, Tasmania's re-elected Premier has defended the Liberals' policy to relax the state's gun laws, despite an outcry from survivors of the Port Arthur shooting.

First of all, that's an opinion piece. I can post an opinion piece for the opposite.

https://www.quora.com/If-gun-laws-in-1996-in-Australia-stopped-mass-shootings-why-do-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-America-have-the-toughest-gun-regulations

But, here's a couple of videos explaining my point.





The link I gave is research that is put on some news sites opinion page. Doesn't make the reserarch conducted by geeks smarter than you or I, merely 'some random opinion'. Did you even read it?


Are you suggesting to me, and all of Australia, that the banning of guns and stricter gun laws and controls has not saved a single innocents life (I don't consider outlaw bikie gangs innocent).

Would you agree with the 'opinion' that there are people alive today that would not have been had the guns never been banned? And I'm not just talking about people who would suicide although I am sure there are plenty of people who have been suicidal that have gotten help and recovered because they didn't have a gun to give them no second chances.

If you think the gun banning in Australia didn't save a single life then you are nothing but a crazy gun nut. I'm glad Australia didn't join the slippery slope of America. I'm glad I can send my kids to school and not have him scanned by armed police as he enters or worried some crazy rejected dick wants to shoot everyone. You may have had legitimate reasons for civilians having guns centuries ago, but how has having guns helped you against your government since? And how many people have lost their lives to the damn things?

Your government will always be one step ahead in terms of firepower. You want to bring a gun to a drone fight? Good luck. Besides, there are so many levels of the government controlling your lives you people aren't even free. You have no privacy, no secrets and are simply cattle. You are worse off in terms of your freedoms and the governments control over your lives than you were centuries ago. Your guns have failed you, and all you have to boast about them are thousands of holes in the ground filled with people and children gone before their time. Bravo!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 04:26:56 PM
Just curious Luke,  do you accept that tighter gun control measures are a good thing?   If so, what measures would you suggest.

As long as they're constitutional and been shown to work I have no problem with it. My proposals is to harshly punish people who use guns in crimes anf end the revolving door of the justice system. If you committed a crime with a firearm, you don't get to plead down for a deal or get parol. And instead of releasing nonvolient felons that can never buy a firearm again, implement a system where if the person is too dangerous to own a gun, then he's too dangerous to walk the streets.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 05:01:08 PM


Not really. One reason I wouldn't expect that to be the case is that I know many counties of California don't really give a shit about enforcing those laws.
And where exactly are these high gun homicides and mass shootings taking place within the state? Are they taking place in the counties that, as you say, don't care about enforcing the laws?
Quote
Not only that, California gun ownership rates are still incredibly high, even with the laws, which are strict, but only for US standards. Guns and stockpiles of ammunition are still readily available to more or less anyone. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the laws to completely nullify the issue, especially when they're on a state and not a federal level.
They're not available to just anyone legally. You have to pass a background check.


Quote
First of all, I didn't really try to make an argument against handguns in particular. But assault rifles have other characteristics that can make them very deadly, such as their range, accuracy and firepower.
All that is pretty much moot when most mass shootings settings are close range. There's really only two shootings where a rifle's range, accuracy, and firepower was advantageous.
Quote
But of course large magazines can be pretty useful for criminals too. Actually, they're mostly useful JUST for criminals and maybe the police in certain cases, you don't really need a large magazine for hunting or target shooting or selfe defense.

You're right about hunting, however large magazines in target shooting helps with long sessions. You don't need to worry about reloading every ten shots when you're trying to focus on improving your accuracy. Plus there are shooting sports that requires standard and high capacity magazines like three gun. As for self defense, you are dealing with someone's life. What if he needs the extra round to defend himself? When the church shooting in Texas happened, there was an armed citizen with an AR that confronted and chased him. By the time they got him to stop, the citizen was down to one round.

Quote
I don't. If people having 50 pairs of shoes or more than one car for each person was a potential danger for people, then I wouldn't really mind restrictions.

And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

Quote

Is that why the Las Vegas shooter had 14 assault rifles and lots of magazines with him?

He could've done it with a couple and lots of magazines.

Quote

But I know some countries have instituted checks to retain your license. On the other hand, there have been cases in the US where people who obviously shouldn't have been granted access to guns (even per the law) do end up having access to them anyways because of bad law enforcement, like the recent case with the person who shot up that fast food place. Then you have all the states that don't even have those checks, and you can see a lot of these people wouldn't have been granted a license if there was a law in place.

Anything can slip with bad emforcement. Even your proposed measures. Which brings up a good point. If our system is bad at enforcing current gun control laws, what makes you think they would all of a sudden become by the book robots with any new law?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2018, 05:06:17 PM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 05:08:17 PM
Hmm. Sure. Lets let people with more intellect than a gun loving yank articulate it

https://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2018/03/13/gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-in-australia.html

Quote
The odds that a 22-year absence of mass shootings in Australia since 1996 gun reforms are due to chance are one in 200,000, new research reveals.

Published today in the Annals of Internal Medicine, scholars at the University of Sydney and Macquarie University used mathematical techniques to test the null hypothesis that the rate of mass shootings in Australia before and after the 1996 law reforms is unchanged.

The National Firearms Agreement, enacted after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania in which 35 died and another 23 were seriously injured, saw the destruction of more than a million firearms—perhaps a third of the country's private gun stock.
" Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia's gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here. "
Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman, University of Sydney

The Agreement included uniform gun registration, repudiation of self-defence as a legitimate reason to hold a firearm licence, mandatory locked storage, a ban on mail order sales and standardised penalties, and the banning of semi-automatic rifles and pump action shot guns from civilian ownership.

Its provisions were subsequently enacted in national, state and territory legislation across Australia.

In the 18 years up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were 13-gun homicides in which five or more people died, not including the perpetrator. In the 22 years since, there have been no such incidents.

“Most people hear these starkly contrasting numbers and conclude that Australia’s gun law reforms effectively stopped firearm massacres here,” says the paper’s lead author, Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman of the University of Sydney.

“However, some scholars and members of the gun lobby have argued that since mass shootings are relatively rare events, the concentration of incidents in one decade and their absence in another decade is merely a statistical anomaly.”

For example, Australian researcher Dr Samara McPhedran writing in The Conversation said: “Mass shootings are rare events, and the long gap between incidents post-1996 may simply reflect a return to a more ‘normal’ state of affairs, similar to the years before 1987.”
" Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked. "
Associate Professor Philip Alpers, University of Sydney

"This was no accident," says the new study’s co-author Associate Professor Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney.

"Australia followed standard public health procedures to reduce the risk of multiple shooting events, and we can see the evidence. It worked.

"Gun lobby-affiliated and other researchers have been saying for years that mass shootings are such rare events it could have been a matter of luck they dropped off in the wake of Australia's gun control laws," says Alpers. "Instead, we found the odds against this hypothesis are 200,000 to one."

In related news, Tasmania's re-elected Premier has defended the Liberals' policy to relax the state's gun laws, despite an outcry from survivors of the Port Arthur shooting.

First of all, that's an opinion piece. I can post an opinion piece for the opposite.

https://www.quora.com/If-gun-laws-in-1996-in-Australia-stopped-mass-shootings-why-do-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-America-have-the-toughest-gun-regulations

But, here's a couple of videos explaining my point.





The link I gave is research that is put on some news sites opinion page. Doesn't make the reserarch conducted by geeks smarter than you or I, merely 'some random opinion'. Did you even read it?


Are you suggesting to me, and all of Australia, that the banning of guns and stricter gun laws and controls has not saved a single innocents life (I don't consider outlaw bikie gangs innocent).

I'm saying that the effects of the ban weren't statistically significant.

Quote
Would you agree with the 'opinion' that there are people alive today that would not have been had the guns never been banned? And I'm not just talking about people who would suicide although I am sure there are plenty of people who have been suicidal that have gotten help and recovered because they didn't have a gun to give them no second chances.

I can only speak from a statistical standpoint. There may very well be people who were saved by the ban. But, I can just as easily point to where people were saved due to lax gun laws.

Quote
If you think the gun banning in Australia didn't save a single life then you are nothing but a crazy gun nut. I'm glad Australia didn't join the slippery slope of America. I'm glad I can send my kids to school and not have him scanned by armed police as he enters or worried some crazy rejected dick wants to shoot everyone. You may have had legitimate reasons for civilians having guns centuries ago, but how has having guns helped you against your government since? And how many people have lost their lives to the damn things?

Your government will always be one step ahead in terms of firepower. You want to bring a gun to a drone fight? Good luck. Besides, there are so many levels of the government controlling your lives you people aren't even free. You have no privacy, no secrets and are simply cattle. You are worse off in terms of your freedoms and the governments control over your lives than you were centuries ago. Your guns have failed you, and all you have to boast about them are thousands of holes in the ground filled with people and children gone before their time. Bravo!

Rant ignored.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 30, 2018, 05:11:50 PM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 30, 2018, 05:17:11 PM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are lots of legal restrictions on using automobiles. There are more restrictions on them than there are on guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2018, 05:21:15 PM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are restrictions on vehicles, licensing and a lot of regulation and laws about your behaviour behind the wheel. And firearms saving '100s of thousands' of lives.. How many were from people because of a firearm in the first place?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 30, 2018, 05:52:36 PM
This is how you do it.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sb-douglas-parents-families-rifles-pac-20180529-story.html

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2018, 06:30:08 PM
This is how you do it.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sb-douglas-parents-families-rifles-pac-20180529-story.html

Good on 'em.  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 31, 2018, 12:00:05 AM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are lots of legal restrictions on using automobiles. There are more restrictions on them than there are on guns.

I'd beg to differ. A felon can buy and drive a vehicle on public roads. He can't buy a firearm. You can drive with a permit as young as 14 in some states and with that permit, you can drive not only anywhere in the United States, but in many countries also. With firearms, unless you're a police officer, you can only carry in certain states. The list goes on. In fact, there are 20,000 laws dealing with firearms alone.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 31, 2018, 12:08:34 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Here is a long winded explanation of what that means . . .

https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

    Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

    Section 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.


I wonder what happened to that one...


It was repealed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on May 31, 2018, 12:26:05 AM
Gasp!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 31, 2018, 12:29:03 AM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are restrictions on vehicles, licensing and a lot of regulation and laws about your behaviour behind the wheel. And firearms saving '100s of thousands' of lives.. How many were from people because of a firearm in the first place?

I answered your first point in response to SCG, I don't understand your second point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 31, 2018, 12:37:53 AM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are restrictions on vehicles, licensing and a lot of regulation and laws about your behaviour behind the wheel. And firearms saving '100s of thousands' of lives.. How many were from people because of a firearm in the first place?

I answered your first point in response to SCG, I don't understand your second point.

You say that guns have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I'm not sure where or how you arrived at that number but my question was how many of those lives were in jeopardy because someone had a gun about to kill them in the first place?

Say someone breaks into your home with a gun and is ready to kill you but you use your gun and kill him first. It is likely you would not have been threatened to begin with if that other guy did not have a gun.

You live in a state of affairs where you need a gun because everyone else has a gun. That is not freedom. Hate to break it to you. Freedom is being able to sleep at night not even conceiving someone killing you in your own home. Guns have not made you free. In fact the opposite. But go ahead and heap praise on your guns. You are simply ignorant as to the misery they have brought to your nation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 31, 2018, 02:03:42 AM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are restrictions on vehicles, licensing and a lot of regulation and laws about your behaviour behind the wheel. And firearms saving '100s of thousands' of lives.. How many were from people because of a firearm in the first place?

I answered your first point in response to SCG, I don't understand your second point.

You say that guns have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I'm not sure where or how you arrived at that number but my question was how many of those lives were in jeopardy because someone had a gun about to kill them in the first place?

don't know.
Quote
Say someone breaks into your home with a gun and is ready to kill you but you use your gun and kill him first. It is likely you would not have been threatened to begin with if that other guy did not have a gun.

You live in a state of affairs where you need a gun because everyone else has a gun. That is not freedom. Hate to break it to you. Freedom is being able to sleep at night not even conceiving someone killing you in your own home. Guns have not made you free. In fact the opposite. But go ahead and heap praise on your guns. You are simply ignorant as to the misery they have brought to your nation.

I could argue that you're not really free since you have to wear your seatbelt because of all the maniacs on the highway. The fact is I don't think about carrying constantly. I carry my firearm and forget about it just like most people carry their phones and forget about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 31, 2018, 04:45:29 AM
I like guns,  I think everybody should own at least a semi-automatic rifle,  plus they should be allowed to carry them whenever and wherever they like,  if someone pisses you off,  just blow them away,  Problem solved. 

I don't know why people have a problem with that.   Unfortunately there are these raving lefty nutters who don't understand what "shall not be infringed means"



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 31, 2018, 07:20:13 AM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are lots of legal restrictions on using automobiles. There are more restrictions on them than there are on guns.

I'd beg to differ. A felon can buy and drive a vehicle on public roads. He can't buy a firearm. You can drive with a permit as young as 14 in some states and with that permit, you can drive not only anywhere in the United States, but in many countries also. With firearms, unless you're a police officer, you can only carry in certain states. The list goes on. In fact, there are 20,000 laws dealing with firearms alone.

What does a felon being allowed to drive have to do with it? A vehicle's purpose isn't to hurt or kill people/other animals. In order for this to be relevant you'd have to show that ex-felons are using their access to vehicles to purposely kill people at some significant rate. I'm sure there have been people, both felons and not, who have used their vehicle as a weapon, but is this an issue worthy of banning felons from driving?

I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me. I couldn't legally purchase a gun, but there's no law against your parents getting you one, and letting you shoot it. The same is not true for driving a car.

Where did you get your 20,000 gun laws statistic? The NRA. I'm sure you've ignored the debunking of that statistic, like most people who aren't really interested in talking about reducing gun violence. This has been a talking point since the 1960's! In fact the majority of states have laws against local gun laws.

My question to people who think we just need to enforce the laws we already have - Which of these "20,000 gun laws" aren't being enforced?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 31, 2018, 08:12:35 AM
The fact that you need to pass a test to receive a license to drive but you don't need any sort of license to own some firearms says everything about the US gun problem.  Hell, some people randomly get selected for retesting on their drivers license and yet you can purchase never-expiring conceal carry permits in my state.

There is something wrong with the fact that you don't need any training at all to purchase a gun, yet you have to have a learners permit for a year before you can get a license to drive a car alone.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 31, 2018, 08:19:58 AM
I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me.

This scene definitely needs to be in the movie of your life.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 31, 2018, 09:29:00 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Here is a long winded explanation of what that means . . .

https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

    Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

    Section 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.


I wonder what happened to that one...


It was repealed.
Exactly...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 31, 2018, 10:09:22 AM
I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me.

This scene definitely needs to be in the movie of your life.

Besides my first bicycle, that was my favorite Christmas present. I still have it! (not the bicycle, tho)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 31, 2018, 10:53:25 AM
I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me.

This scene definitely needs to be in the movie of your life.

Besides my first bicycle, that was my favorite Christmas present. I still have it! (not the bicycle, tho)
First the whole pigs, now this? How redneck are you on a scale of 1 to 100?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 31, 2018, 10:55:59 AM
I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me.

This scene definitely needs to be in the movie of your life.

Besides my first bicycle, that was my favorite Christmas present. I still have it! (not the bicycle, tho)
First the whole pigs, now this? How redneck are you on a scale of 1 to 100?

Well, I don't wear boots and a cowboy hat or spit tobacco so probably around 50.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 31, 2018, 10:58:47 AM
I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me.

This scene definitely needs to be in the movie of your life.

Besides my first bicycle, that was my favorite Christmas present. I still have it! (not the bicycle, tho)
First the whole pigs, now this? How redneck are you on a scale of 1 to 100?

Well, I don't wear boots and a cowboy hat or spit tobacco so probably around 50.
I want rigorous facts:
http://brainfall.com/quizzes/how-redneck-are-you/#Hk43w361m
https://www.quizony.com/how-redneck-are-you/1.html?qisrc=start-1&qdevice=desktop
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 31, 2018, 11:15:29 AM
You are 56% Redneck. You are a Monster Truck Enthusiast!

Even if you ain't a redneck per se, you ain't a full-blooded Yankee neither. Maybe you'd even enjoy the occasional Monster Truck Rally, if you were willing to give it a shot!

Some of the questions didn't have an answer that was true, so I just picked the one that was close.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on May 31, 2018, 11:26:52 AM
You are 56% Redneck. You are a Monster Truck Enthusiast!

Even if you ain't a redneck per se, you ain't a full-blooded Yankee neither. Maybe you'd even enjoy the occasional Monster Truck Rally, if you were willing to give it a shot!

Some of the questions didn't have an answer that was true, so I just picked the one that was close.
Well, your estimate was pretty close.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 31, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
I could argue that you're not really free since you have to wear your seatbelt because of all the maniacs on the highway. The fact is I don't think about carrying constantly. I carry my firearm and forget about it just like most people carry their phones and forget about it.

How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom? How does it endanger my life? How do others wearing theirs endanger anyone elses life? I would wear one even if it were not law. You bring the most obscure, ridiculous and stupid analogies to defend guns. I get you guys have long past the point of no return. But seatbelts aren't going to kill or injure me. How about that pro gun advocate bitch who left her loaded gun on the floor of the car and her 2 year old grabbed it and shot her in the back through the seat? Yep. Sure made her safer  ??? ::) Good thing you don't have that seat belt law.  ::)

You are in denial that guns over the centuries have brought more misery than they have freedom. And you bring in the 'seat belts law' as your defense lol.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 31, 2018, 06:19:56 PM
And yet cars have killed more people than firearms.

The most stupid fallback argument of the ignorant gun nut. The purpose of a firearm is ultimately to kill/maim. As a tool it is not useful for anything else.

The purpose of a car is transportation. Do you see why you example is shit and looks stupid?

DNO stated that if an item had the potential to harm people then he wouldn't mind restrictions. He dud not directly state that if an item was directly used to harm people then he would be fine with restrictions. Also firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have save 100s of thousands lives.

There are lots of legal restrictions on using automobiles. There are more restrictions on them than there are on guns.

I'd beg to differ. A felon can buy and drive a vehicle on public roads. He can't buy a firearm. You can drive with a permit as young as 14 in some states and with that permit, you can drive not only anywhere in the United States, but in many countries also. With firearms, unless you're a police officer, you can only carry in certain states. The list goes on. In fact, there are 20,000 laws dealing with firearms alone.

What does a felon being allowed to drive have to do with it? A vehicle's purpose isn't to hurt or kill people/other animals. In order for this to be relevant you'd have to show that ex-felons are using their access to vehicles to purposely kill people at some significant rate. I'm sure there have been people, both felons and not, who have used their vehicle as a weapon, but is this an issue worthy of banning felons from driving?

Your complaint was that gun regulations are more lax than car regulations. I provided examples of laws where gun regulations are stricter than car regulations. I will point out, though, that criminals do use cars to aid them in a commision of a crime most of the time. Criminals use cars to transport drugs, stolen money and property, and getawey vehicles.
Quote
I got my first shotgun when I was 9 years old. Santa brought it to me. I couldn't legally purchase a gun, but there's no law against your parents getting you one, and letting you shoot it. The same is not true for driving a car.

Actually it is true. On private property you can drive a car. Plus if you own a tractor, you can drive on public roads without any license whatsoever.
Quote
Where did you get your 20,000 gun laws statistic? The NRA. I'm sure you've ignored the debunking of that statistic, like most people who aren't really interested in talking about reducing gun violence. This has been a talking point since the 1960's! In fact the majority of states have laws against local gun laws.

Acually I heard it somewhere and didn't researched it. I found this article on it.

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/02/10/politics/fact-check-nra-leader-misspoke-on-number-of-gun-laws-but-does-it-matter/
Quote
My question to people who think we just need to enforce the laws we already have - Which of these "20,000 gun laws" aren't being enforced?

For one arresting someone who was visited by police 30 times with many arrestable offenses.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on May 31, 2018, 06:25:14 PM
I could argue that you're not really free since you have to wear your seatbelt because of all the maniacs on the highway. The fact is I don't think about carrying constantly. I carry my firearm and forget about it just like most people carry their phones and forget about it.

How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom?
Seatbelts can be constricting.
Quote
How does it endanger my life? How do others wearing theirs endanger anyone elses life?
How are these questions relevant to what I said?
Quote
I would wear one even if it were not law. You bring the most obscure, ridiculous and stupid analogies to defend guns. I get you guys have long past the point of no return. But seatbelts aren't going to kill or injure me. How about that pro gun advocate bitch who left her loaded gun on the floor of the car and her 2 year old grabbed it and shot her in the back through the seat? Yep. Sure made her safer  ??? ::) Good thing you don't have that seat belt law.  ::)

She only represent the minuscule amount of firearm negligence in this country.
Quote
You are in denial that guns over the centuries have brought more misery than they have freedom. And you bring in the 'seat belts law' as your defense lol.

Thanks for your opinion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 31, 2018, 06:39:18 PM
Where are the examples you claim to have provided? Did you forget to post them?

Also, what does arresting someone visited 30 times by the police have to do with gun laws? Are they being visited by the police for having guns? For threatening someone with a gun? If that is the case, why didn't the police do their job?

I asked which of the existing "20,000 gun laws" aren't being enforced. Do you even know any of them?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 31, 2018, 08:05:58 PM
How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom?
Seatbelts can be constricting.

Constricting how? You are driving a car not getting a blow job.

I think you would like this shirt


(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/03/seatbelt-china-shirt-628-1363011933.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on May 31, 2018, 10:18:48 PM
How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom?
Seatbelts can be constricting.
Are you retarded?

Quote
I could argue that you're not really free since you have to wear your seatbelt because of all the maniacs on the highway. The fact is I don't think about carrying constantly. I carry my firearm and forget about it just like most people carry their phones and forget about it.
And that, folks, is what's wrong with the usa.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 01, 2018, 12:14:05 AM
Your complaint was that gun regulations are more lax than car regulations. I provided examples of laws where gun regulations are stricter than car regulations. I will point out, though, that criminals do use cars to aid them in a commision of a crime most of the time. Criminals use cars to transport drugs, stolen money and property, and getawey vehicles.

Lol these are some great mental gymnastics. I don't know why gun advocates like to equate guns with cars so much. They're obviously not the same thing.

Quote
Actually it is true. On private property you can drive a car.

Yeah, on private property.

Quote
Plus if you own a tractor, you can drive on public roads without any license whatsoever.

Tractors aren't exactly dangerous to other people. They kind of are in some cases, but when you're going at 30kph it really isn't that much of a danger for the public. Although I know there are certain restrictions for what you can do with them in a highway in most countries, but that's for a different reason (they're slow af and they obstruct other cars).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on June 01, 2018, 06:09:58 AM
How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom?
Seatbelts can be constricting.
Are you retarded?

Quote
I could argue that you're not really free since you have to wear your seatbelt because of all the maniacs on the highway. The fact is I don't think about carrying constantly. I carry my firearm and forget about it just like most people carry their phones and forget about it.
And that, folks, is what's wrong with the usa.

What?  You mean I can't just pop a cap in the ass of someone that I don't like?    That's not fair,  I need a gun to feel safe.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on June 01, 2018, 06:44:29 AM
How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom?
Seat belts infringe on your freedom to die or be seriously injured in an accident.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on June 01, 2018, 07:32:41 AM
(https://s33.postimg.cc/3kv992lr3/Screenshot-2018-6-1_Facebook.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 01, 2018, 07:05:14 PM
Where are the examples you claim to have provided? Did you forget to post them?

My post that you quoted.

A felon can buy a car, he can't buy a gun.

There is no background check (other than maybe a finacial one) to buy a car from a dealer. There is a background check for purchasing a firearm and any false information you purposely put on there can land you in prison.

In some states you can get a driver's permit as young as 14 and drive anywhere in the country and many foriegn nations. On the other hand you have to be 18 in most states to be able to buy a long gun and 21 to be able to buy a handgun and you can't carry your firearm everywhere in the country unless you're law enforcement. Even then off duty law enforcement must abide by state laws as to what you can carry and how many rounds can your firearm can hold. To add, a 14 year old with a driver's permit can drive anything from a Lamborghini to an RV in any state of the country. A gun owner wishing to visit or even pass through a state must first check with the law to make sure what and how he's carrying is legal and see if his carry permit is valid in the state he's visiting or passing through.


Quote
Also, what does arresting someone visited 30 times by the police have to do with gun laws? Are they being visited by the police for having guns? For threatening someone with a gun? If that is the case, why didn't the police do their job?

Yes, the Parkland shooter did in fact threaten his family with a gun but they never pressed charges.
Quote
I asked which of the existing "20,000 gun laws" aren't being enforced. Do you even know any of them?

Yes. Like criminally charging those who purposely falsify information on a background check.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 01, 2018, 07:07:22 PM
How does a seatbelt infringe my freedom?
Seatbelts can be constricting.

Constricting how? You are driving a car not getting a blow job.

I think you would like this shirt


(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/03/seatbelt-china-shirt-628-1363011933.jpg)

For the record, I wear my seatbelt the moment I step in the car. However seatbelts doesn't make your movement easier than not wearing them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 01, 2018, 07:14:33 PM
Your complaint was that gun regulations are more lax than car regulations. I provided examples of laws where gun regulations are stricter than car regulations. I will point out, though, that criminals do use cars to aid them in a commision of a crime most of the time. Criminals use cars to transport drugs, stolen money and property, and getawey vehicles.

Lol these are some great mental gymnastics. I don't know why gun advocates like to equate guns with cars so much. They're obviously not the same thing.

I'm just pointing out that cars are used for criminal activity as well arguably far more so than firearms.
Quote
Quote
Actually it is true. On private property you can drive a car.

Yeah, on private property.

Well, it's not like a 9 year old can walk downtown with an AR on her back either. This was in response to SCG's acclaim to have been given a shotgun when she was 9. I extremely doubt she was allowed to carry that thing into Walmart.
Quote
Quote
Plus if you own a tractor, you can drive on public roads without any license whatsoever.

Tractors aren't exactly dangerous to other people. They kind of are in some cases, but when you're going at 30kph it really isn't that much of a danger for the public. Although I know there are certain restrictions for what you can do with them in a highway in most countries, but that's for a different reason (they're slow af and they obstruct other cars).

Which I don't think that's relevant. The discussion is whether or not buying amd operating a gun is easier than buying and operating a vehicle legally.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 02, 2018, 07:15:46 AM
No, the conversation is about mass shootings. You keep bringing up vehicles.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 02, 2018, 09:55:15 AM
No, the conversation is about mass shootings. You keep bringing up vehicles.
I don't understand why gun advocates are so obsessed with vehicles.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 02, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
No, the conversation is about mass shootings. You keep bringing up vehicles.
I don't understand why gun advocates are so obsessed with vehicles.

Because lots of people die in vehicles, so they think if they bring that up they can prove that guns aren't such a problem. They tend to ignore the fact that we have adjusted the laws regarding vehicles many times, and that traffic fatalities are almost back to 1950s levels (despite having millions more cars on the road). 


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 02, 2018, 11:08:16 AM
No, the conversation is about mass shootings. You keep bringing up vehicles.
I don't understand why gun advocates are so obsessed with vehicles.

Nra 101. Anything to distract and derail.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 03, 2018, 05:57:19 AM
No, the conversation is about mass shootings. You keep bringing up vehicles.
I don't understand why gun advocates are so obsessed with vehicles.

Because lots of people die in vehicles, so they think if they bring that up they can prove that guns aren't such a problem. They tend to ignore the fact that we have adjusted the laws regarding vehicles many times, and that traffic fatalities are almost back to 1950s levels (despite having millions more cars on the road).

And we have done the same with firearms. It used to be that you can by a full automatic firearms from Sears with no paperwork whatsoever. Try that now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 03, 2018, 06:45:50 AM
Yeah, now there is lots of paperwork involved when I buy a full auto from Sears. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 03, 2018, 07:07:10 AM
There's still too much paperwork when I buy an assault weapon from kmart over layaway!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 03, 2018, 07:11:32 AM
Walmart wants to see my ID now, what a bunch of jerks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 03, 2018, 07:56:24 AM
There is no such thing as an "assault weapon."  I could assault you with a baseball bat or a screw driver. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 03, 2018, 11:19:45 AM
There is no such thing as an "assault weapon."  I could assault you with a baseball bat or a screw driver.
Are baseball bats and screwdrivers specifically designed to assault people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 03, 2018, 12:12:05 PM
There is no such thing as a 'baseball bat'. Every bat could be used for baseball!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 03, 2018, 12:21:53 PM
There is no such thing as an "assault weapon."  I could assault you with a baseball bat or a screw driver.
Are baseball bats and screwdrivers specifically designed to assault people?

All tools have the potential to be used to assault someone. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JQKAndrei on June 03, 2018, 12:36:33 PM

All tools have the potential to be used to assault someone.

There is no such thing as flat earth. A kitchen table can be flat, or a led tv.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on June 07, 2018, 06:26:47 AM
How close can you get to the correct numbers?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/guns-parkland-polling-quiz/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 07, 2018, 06:46:00 AM
How close can you get to the correct numbers?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/guns-parkland-polling-quiz/
I was pretty close overall (the deviation was probably about 8% on average) but I consistently picked a lower percentage than the actual one...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on June 07, 2018, 02:12:41 PM
A nursery rhyme for kindergarteners.... Pretty sad

Quote
Lockdown, lockdown, lock the door

Shut the lights off, say no more

Go behind the desk and hide

Wait until it’s safe inside

Lockdown, lockdown, it’s all done

Now it’s time to have some fun!

Enjoy your 'free' society
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 28, 2018, 03:49:53 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/multiple-people-reported-shot-maryland-newspaper-office-n887526

Quote
Five people were killed Thursday afternoon after a gunman opened fire inside the offices of the Capital Gazette, a newspaper in the Maryland capital, Annapolis, police officials said. A suspect is in custody.

William Krampf, the acting police chief of Anne Arundel County, said at a news conference that several other people were "gravely injured." "The investigation has just started; it will take quite a while to determine what occurred and why it occurred," he said at a news conference.

Three senior law enforcement officials who were briefed on the shooting said the suspect in custody is a white man. They said it is believed that he used a shotgun. Police would not identify the gun used.

Phil Davis, a Gazette crime reporter who was in the office, recounted the shooting on Twitter.

"Gunman shot through the glass door to the office and opened fire on multiple employees," Davis said. "Can't say much more and don't want to declare anyone dead, but it's bad."

"There is nothing more terrifying than hearing multiple people get shot while you're under your desk and then hear the gunman reload," Davis said in another tweet.

Anne Arundel County Police Lt. Ryan Frashure said police were still talking to the suspect and a motive has not been determined.

I wonder if he believes the media are the enemy of the American people.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 28, 2018, 05:42:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/media/394715-milo-yiannopoulos-my-call-for-shooting-journalists-was-just-a-troll%3famp

I can almost hear milo high fiving people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on June 28, 2018, 06:16:33 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/media/394715-milo-yiannopoulos-my-call-for-shooting-journalists-was-just-a-troll%3famp

I can almost hear milo high fiving people.

He's just an attention seeking arsehole,  he loves the publicity almost as much as little boys.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 28, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
So far it looks like he had a vendetta against that specific newspaper for publicising a crime he committed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on June 29, 2018, 06:24:15 AM
So far it looks like he had a vendetta against that specific newspaper for publicising a crime he committed.


There was a defamation lawsuit involved apparently.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 29, 2018, 06:34:24 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/media/394715-milo-yiannopoulos-my-call-for-shooting-journalists-was-just-a-troll%3famp

I can almost hear milo high fiving people.
The shooting was just a prank, bro.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 29, 2018, 07:03:45 AM
Now Milo is threatening to sue The Observer for defamation. lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on July 01, 2018, 02:12:06 PM
Now Milo is threatening to sue The Observer for defamation. lol

I think I can see where this is eventually heading....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 17, 2018, 05:04:49 PM


The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a toddler with a gun!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 18, 2018, 12:32:28 PM
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/07/16/bobby-wilson-arizona-senate-candidate-says-he-killed-his-mother/772539002/
To go along with the bad guy with gun/good guy with gun stuff, here is a tale about a good son with a gun killing a bad mother with a gun, supposedly.  He magically got amnesia about the incident, got prosecutors to stop the prosecution while he was afflicted with amnesia, then motioned to have the charges dropped after 7 years because the prosecution violated his right to a fair and speedy trial.  He mother and sister were found in bed together, after he claims his mother tried to kill him and ended up killing his sister in the process, which he then shot his mother through the eye.
I'm not saying this guy is lying, but I'd believe Scepti is genuine in his belief before I believe this guy's story.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on July 19, 2018, 04:39:32 AM
He mother and sister were found in bed together, after he claims his mother tried to kill him and ended up killing his sister in the process, which he then shot his mother through the eye.
Come again?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on July 19, 2018, 05:58:42 AM
He mother and sister were found in bed together, after he claims his mother tried to kill him and ended up killing his sister in the process, which he then shot his mother through the eye.
Come again?

No, it's mayonnaise this time, you nosy bitch!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 19, 2018, 06:22:16 AM
He mother and sister were found in bed together, after he claims his mother tried to kill him and ended up killing his sister in the process, which he then shot his mother through the eye.
Come again?
This guy claims his mother pointed a gun directly at him while he slept. He woke up to a barrel in his face and days he dodged 6 bullets. His sister came out to see what was going on and the mother cracked her in the head with the butt of the gun on accident, killing her. He then got a single shot rifle and got her through the eye.  In the commotion, the gas which was stored in his room got spiked, and turning on lights ignited the gas and blew him out the door. This is according to him.

However, investigators found the burnt corpses of his mom and sister together in bed. Hard to imagine 2 dead women climbing in bed together.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 19, 2018, 06:37:36 AM
He mother and sister were found in bed together, after he claims his mother tried to kill him and ended up killing his sister in the process, which he then shot his mother through the eye.
Come again?
This guy claims his mother pointed a gun directly at him while he slept. He woke up to a barrel in his face and days he dodged 6 bullets. His sister came out to see what was going on and the mother cracked her in the head with the butt of the gun on accident, killing her. He then got a single shot rifle and got her through the eye.  In the commotion, the gas which was stored in his room got spiked, and turning on lights ignited the gas and blew him out the door. This is according to him.

However, investigators found the burnt corpses of his mom and sister together in bed. Hard to imagine 2 dead women climbing in bed together.
Pretty damn fucked up either way.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on July 19, 2018, 03:30:34 PM
He mother and sister were found in bed together, after he claims his mother tried to kill him and ended up killing his sister in the process, which he then shot his mother through the eye.
Come again?
This guy claims his mother pointed a gun directly at him while he slept. He woke up to a barrel in his face and days he dodged 6 bullets. His sister came out to see what was going on and the mother cracked her in the head with the butt of the gun on accident, killing her. He then got a single shot rifle and got her through the eye.  In the commotion, the gas which was stored in his room got spiked, and turning on lights ignited the gas and blew him out the door. This is according to him.

However, investigators found the burnt corpses of his mom and sister together in bed. Hard to imagine 2 dead women climbing in bed together.
Pretty damn fucked up either way.

I'm so tired of people bringing up excuses in trials to evade responsibility. Like when criminals magically present with a 'previously undiagnosed' mental illness like bipolar. Yeah. You lived for decades just fine and when you get caught and fuck up, you are apparently a victim of a disorder that you were born with but had no problems up until now.

The dead people cant defend themselves and this guy is refusing to talk. Amnesia my arse. Throw him in the slammer for the rest of his life. Why are medical professionals so easily conned by people. I could walk into a doctors office right now and walk out with a script for some Valium. I'll just pretend I feel depressed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 19, 2018, 03:43:04 PM

I'm so tired of people bringing up excuses in trials to evade responsibility. Like when criminals magically present with a 'previously undiagnosed' mental illness like bipolar.

I don't care why someone is fucked up.
If they are that out of control they belong in a cage.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on July 20, 2018, 12:40:08 AM
This guy claims his mother pointed a gun directly at him while he slept. He woke up to a barrel in his face and days he dodged 6 bullets.
Did he do it in slow-mo bullet time Neo style though?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 20, 2018, 03:26:13 AM

I'm so tired of people bringing up excuses in trials to evade responsibility.
Yeah, it's almost like people don't want to go to jail!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 22, 2018, 05:17:41 PM

I'm so tired of people bringing up excuses in trials to evade responsibility.
Yeah, it's almost like people don't want to go to jail!

Nah, it couldn't be that. Who doesn't want to go to jail?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on July 22, 2018, 05:40:01 PM

I'm so tired of people bringing up excuses in trials to evade responsibility.
Yeah, it's almost like people don't want to go to jail!

It's only proof they have no remorse. The lawyer fighting for them is only doing it for money - not because he somehow has inside knowledge his client is innocent. They go beyond assuring their clients rights are met. They full on BS the court, tell clients of loopholes, how to get 'the best deal' regardless of guilt etc. They would happily fight to free a guilty murderous pedo if it notches them a victory and nice payoff. The protection and rights of society to live without fear overrules any desire of a criminal scum who doesn't want to go to jail. Fuck them. Honestly, if they are caught saying stupid shit to avoid punishment, the punishment should be lengthened.

Why should someone who owns up to a crime and is remorseful, spend longer in jail than someone who doesn't give 2 shits and games the system to their advantage?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 23, 2018, 03:42:08 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toronto-shooting-danforth-logan-broadview-greektown-canada-live-updates-today-2018-07-23/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on July 23, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
(https://s8.postimg.cc/rfzb5b4w5/1532388448173.jpg)

Faisal Hussain
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on July 23, 2018, 07:53:33 PM
Quote
:191 And kill them wherever you find them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing

Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah [disbelief] and worship is for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

...

Quote
21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

There is only one true King.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 23, 2018, 08:06:46 PM

There is only one true King.

Per kingdom at any given time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on July 23, 2018, 10:44:55 PM

There is only one true King.

Per kingdom at any given time.

Edgy.

There really is only one King and one Kingdom. The rest are mere titles given of and from men.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on July 23, 2018, 10:46:54 PM
There really is only one King and one Kingdom. The rest are mere titles given of and from men.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on July 23, 2018, 11:57:52 PM
I'm not sure what's happening.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on July 23, 2018, 11:58:28 PM
There really is only one King and one Kingdom. The rest are mere titles given of and from men.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 24, 2018, 06:36:37 AM
I'm not sure what's happening.
God made the Toronto attack happen because King Tut one existed?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2018, 12:30:04 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jacksonville-florida-police-respond-to-mass-shooting-today-live-updates-2018-08-26/?
Quote
Multiple dead in mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida — live updates

Multiple people have been killed in a mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida, police said. The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said authorities are responding to the Jacksonville Landing marketplace in the city's downtown area, where an esports video game tournament was being held.

The sheriff's office said one suspect was dead at the scene.

Police urged anyone hiding inside the building to remain calm and wait for police to reach them. "SWAT is doing a methodical search inside The Landing," the office said. "We will get to you. Please don't come running out."

GLHF Game Bar in the Jacksonville Landing was hosting a regional esports tournament for players of EA's Madden 19 on Sunday, according to a schedule posted two days ago on the EA Sports website. Apparent gunshots can be heard in recordings from the tournament on the bar's Twitch account, which was streaming the competition.

In a Facebook message, the bar told CBS News that all staff members and the owner were able to escape "untouched."

Florida Gov. Rick Scott tweeted that he offered state resources to the local sheriff's office.

Another one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 26, 2018, 12:42:32 PM
I don't even want to talk about these things any more. It's just incredibly sad.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 26, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
The school shootings are the worst.  There's something extra evil about killing small children.  The fact that this keeps happening just makes me angry that we offer nothing but thoughts and prayers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on August 26, 2018, 03:16:55 PM
The school shootings are the worst.  There's something extra evil about killing small children.  The fact that this keeps happening just makes me angry that we offer nothing but thoughts and prayers.

I'm tired of the gun debate and so called 'rights' for a gun. What you guys need is a social debate. How does one get to a point where they would turn a gun on another person let alone children? For all the wars you guys fight overseas to preserve freedom and life, there's another not talked about in your own backyard.

Other countries with gun ownership rights dont seem to suffer so much carnage because of guns. It seems to be something isolated to America. You need to spend more $$$ on social welfare / mental health programs. Too many people are falling through the cracks.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on August 26, 2018, 08:10:42 PM
There needs to be a legit conversation about guns in its entirety, from ways to keep from out of the hands of dangerous people to ways of getting people who may turn dangerous some help.  This won't happen because the left focuses on the first and derides conversations focusing on the last as futile and vice versa for the right.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 27, 2018, 12:51:29 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 27, 2018, 04:05:20 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 27, 2018, 06:17:03 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on August 27, 2018, 06:20:31 AM
Said Randian wealthy people would demand 0% taxes if we stopped having a $900 billion war machine. The plebians aren't worth saving and should pay for a psychologist themselves if they require it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 27, 2018, 07:14:37 AM
I work at a pharmacy and the pharmacist has two guns under his work station. They've been there for at least the ten years I've worked here and not once has those two guns got up themselves and shot somebody...


Edit: Just sayin ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 27, 2018, 08:05:11 AM
I work at a pharmacy and the pharmacist has two guns under his work station. They've been there for at least the ten years I've worked here and not once has those two guns got up themselves and shot somebody...


Edit: Just sayin ;)
Interesting story. When I was little I used to have a tortoise. But someone stole it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on August 27, 2018, 08:10:12 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on August 27, 2018, 05:41:32 PM
I work at a pharmacy and the pharmacist has two guns under his work station. They've been there for at least the ten years I've worked here and not once has those two guns got up themselves and shot somebody...


Edit: Just sayin ;)
Interesting story. When I was little I used to have a tortoise. But someone stole it.

LOL.   This gets my vote for post of the week!     
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 01:12:17 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 28, 2018, 07:25:26 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.


If it wasn't for us, you might be speaking German right now, bub. ;)
Or maybe Italian.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on August 28, 2018, 08:26:03 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.
I know right. And it’s not even on the top. Just think, the US spends more on welfare than warfare.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 09:29:56 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.


If it wasn't for us, you might be speaking German right now, bub. ;)
Or maybe Italian.
The Italians actually got their ass handed to them so they asked for Hitler's assistance. These hypothetical scenarios are kinda silly, but, if someone was indispensible in fighting Hitler, that would probably be the USSR. Anyways, I'm pretty sure everyone recognizes the US' contribution to WWII. It's the idiotic wars after that that everyone hates.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 09:30:47 AM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.
I know right. And it’s not even on the top. Just think, the US spends more on welfare than warfare.
OH WOW!!! Wait, what is this supposed to prove again?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on August 28, 2018, 10:08:02 AM
The Ottoman Empire actually invaded and conquered both Italy and Greece. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 12:17:03 PM
The Ottoman Empire actually invaded and conquered both Italy and Greece.
Yyyyeah... Um... I think you may have messed up your timeline a bit... Also they never conquered Italy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on August 28, 2018, 12:18:19 PM
The one thing I have learned from eating pizza is that you can't trust a Greek, liar. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 12:21:55 PM
Italians love us and we love them! We're best buds!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on August 28, 2018, 02:56:29 PM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.
I know right. And it’s not even on the top. Just think, the US spends more on welfare than warfare.
OH WOW!!! Wait, what is this supposed to prove again?
I was just pointing out how you were wrong.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on August 28, 2018, 03:10:41 PM
You mad.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 28, 2018, 03:34:37 PM
He's always mad, bro.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 04:00:34 PM
You have, like, an absurd amount of wealth as a country, is it THAT difficult to appoint a number of psychologists at every school and have regular check ups/sessions for the children to prevent shit like this and improve everyone's quality of life?

It's more accurate to say that a very small handful of people here have an absurd amount of wealth. Unfortunately they're also greedy assholes who have devolved into a kind of ayn rand cult of disdain for normal people.
The state too has a whole lot of wealth though. They just prefer to use it to build drones to blow up brown people in distant countries.

Have you ever looked up the US budget?
Yes, have you? It's ridiculous how much is spent for the military.
I know right. And it’s not even on the top. Just think, the US spends more on welfare than warfare.
OH WOW!!! Wait, what is this supposed to prove again?
I was just pointing out how you were wrong.

Wrong about... What? Explain yourself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 28, 2018, 04:01:49 PM
He's always mad, bro.
I guess some people just use forums to vent their anger...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on October 27, 2018, 10:28:57 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/27/pittsburgh-police-responding-active-shooting-squirrel-hill-area/?utm_term=.bb27a8e58a10

Wow! Almost two months without another mass shooting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2018, 11:35:35 AM
I was just reading about this. 8 people dead so far, the shooter is in custody.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on October 27, 2018, 12:08:35 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/27/pittsburgh-police-responding-active-shooting-squirrel-hill-area/?utm_term=.bb27a8e58a10

Wow! Almost two months without another mass shooting.
Incorrect.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2018, 05:30:18 PM
Oh, the shooters Gab page https://imgur.com/a/cwB9QkR?fbclid=IwAR2QivBAZM82TrluNzkRuAg3fxCshJvZbmaVPm_3VOG1vsazI7PIZWGYp9U
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on October 27, 2018, 05:57:21 PM
And people wonder why we're so quick to shut down d1's "jokes".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on October 27, 2018, 05:59:52 PM
And people wonder why we're so quick to shut down d1's "jokes".

That is a silly thing to say.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2018, 06:22:01 PM
And people wonder why we're so quick to shut down d1's "jokes".

That is a silly thing to say.

It is a true thing to say.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 27, 2018, 07:31:56 PM
And people wonder why we're so quick to shut down d1's "jokes".

That is a silly thing to say.

D1 was just parroting the crazed brainwashing he got over at 4chan,  I doubt he ever even knew any one who is jewish. 

I wonder if Adelson is going to cut back his funding?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on October 27, 2018, 08:20:09 PM
And people wonder why we're so quick to shut down d1's "jokes".

That is a silly thing to say.

D1 was just parroting the crazed brainwashing he got over at 4chan,  I doubt he ever even knew any one who is jewish. 

I wonder if Adelson is going to cut back his funding?

Lol, you are the last person to talk about blindly parroting things.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 27, 2018, 09:16:46 PM
And people wonder why we're so quick to shut down d1's "jokes".

That is a silly thing to say.

D1 was just parroting the crazed brainwashing he got over at 4chan,  I doubt he ever even knew any one who is jewish. 

I wonder if Adelson is going to cut back his funding?

Lol, you are the last person to talk about blindly parroting things.

Are you defending D1's anti-semitic memes that he got infected with on 4chan?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on October 27, 2018, 09:30:20 PM
Are you defending D1's anti-semitic memes that he got infected with on 4chan?

You are so predictable Rayzor. Reminds me of that moron lady reporter that interviewed Robert Peterson.

Peterson "I like apples"

Reporter "Apples are red, the Nazi flag is red, so what you are saying is you support Nazis and beating women?"


So again, I simply said you don't have room to talk about blindly following anything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 27, 2018, 09:47:23 PM
Are you defending D1's anti-semitic memes that he got infected with on 4chan?

You are so predictable Rayzor. Reminds me of that moron lady reporter that interviewed Robert Peterson.

Peterson "I like apples"

Reporter "Apples are red, the Nazi flag is red, so what you are saying is you support Nazis and beating women?"


So again, I simply said you don't have room to talk about blindly following anything.

How about trying to make a rational argument.   Or can I just assume you are ignorant and unwilling to learn the truth?

What am I to think of you when you say such stupid things?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on October 27, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
Are you defending D1's anti-semitic memes that he got infected with on 4chan?

You are so predictable Rayzor. Reminds me of that moron lady reporter that interviewed Robert Peterson.

Peterson "I like apples"

Reporter "Apples are red, the Nazi flag is red, so what you are saying is you support Nazis and beating women?"


So again, I simply said you don't have room to talk about blindly following anything.

How about trying to make a rational argument.   Or can I just assume you are ignorant and unwilling to learn the truth?

What am I to think of you when you say such stupid things?

The interview was that bad, I can post it if you want to watch it. You are also proving what I just said true again by attempting to put words in my mouth.

As for your views, yes, you are brainwashed and have no thoughts of your own...you prove this with at least every other post here. It's for all to see.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 27, 2018, 10:14:00 PM
Are you defending D1's anti-semitic memes that he got infected with on 4chan?

You are so predictable Rayzor. Reminds me of that moron lady reporter that interviewed Robert Peterson.

Peterson "I like apples"

Reporter "Apples are red, the Nazi flag is red, so what you are saying is you support Nazis and beating women?"


So again, I simply said you don't have room to talk about blindly following anything.

How about trying to make a rational argument.   Or can I just assume you are ignorant and unwilling to learn the truth?

What am I to think of you when you say such stupid things?

The interview was that bad, I can post it if you want to watch it. You are also proving what I just said true again by attempting to put words in my mouth.

As for your views, yes, you are brainwashed and have no thoughts of your own...you prove this with at least every other post here. It's for all to see.

So, let me get this straight,  D1 is a friend of yours from way back,  I understand that,  but you stood by and watched him go off the rails into psycho-land when everyone here was trying to warn him that the path he was travelling on would lead to madness. 

I hindsight,  that approach of trying to reason with him was probably never going to work,  he got so deep into the Anon bullshit he was never going to get out with his mind intact.

The anti-semitic stuff he posted was over the top, and he rightly got bammed for it.  Stop defending the indefensible.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on October 27, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
So, let me get this straight,  D1 is a friend of yours from way back,  I understand that,  but you stood by and watched him go off the rails into psycho-land when everyone here was trying to warn him that the path he was travelling on would lead to madness. 

I hindsight,  that approach of trying to reason with him was probably never going to work,  he got so deep into the Anon bullshit he was never going to get out with his mind intact.

The anti-semitic stuff he posted was over the top, and he rightly got bammed for it.  Stop defending the indefensible.

He never went off the rails, y'all were being trolled and didn't realize it. When he realized how people were here, he gave up.

I never saw the anti-Semitic things he supposedly posted and no one every showed proof...I know you didn't see it either.

He doesn't hate Jews or any race for that matter.


Now, as always you are trying to change the subject...I am talking about you Rayzor...no one else, you...quit trying to deflect
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 27, 2018, 10:29:55 PM
So, let me get this straight,  D1 is a friend of yours from way back,  I understand that,  but you stood by and watched him go off the rails into psycho-land when everyone here was trying to warn him that the path he was travelling on would lead to madness. 

I hindsight,  that approach of trying to reason with him was probably never going to work,  he got so deep into the Anon bullshit he was never going to get out with his mind intact.

The anti-semitic stuff he posted was over the top, and he rightly got bammed for it.  Stop defending the indefensible.

He never went off the rails, y'all were being trolled and didn't realize it. When he realized how people were here, he gave up.

I never saw the anti-Semitic things he supposedly posted and no one every showed proof...I know you didn't see it either.

He doesn't hate Jews or any race for that matter.


Now, as always you are trying to change the subject...I am talking about you Rayzor...no one else, you...quit trying to deflect

It was pretty hard to miss.   For the record,  he only claimed to be a troll,  after he got tied in knots by the V parody that the viceroy nailed him with. 

Anyway,  what about me?   You don't like the fact that I'm correct about Trump.   Meh, that's your problem not mine.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 28, 2018, 08:13:33 AM
It doesn't matter if he was trolling or serious. We don't allow Nazi bullshit on the forum.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 28, 2018, 05:03:38 PM
It doesn't matter if he was trolling or serious. We don't allow Nazi bullshit on the forum.

Looks like someone finally noticed GAB had crossed the line.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/27/18032930/paypal-banned-gab-following-pittsburgh-shooting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on October 28, 2018, 05:29:08 PM
Who is GAB?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 28, 2018, 05:31:19 PM
Gab is like Twitter for Nazis.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on October 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
the Glorious Internet
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on October 28, 2018, 08:18:49 PM
It doesn't matter if he was trolling or serious. We don't allow Nazi bullshit on the forum.

Looks like someone finally noticed GAB had crossed the line.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/27/18032930/paypal-banned-gab-following-pittsburgh-shooting

This is the practical problem of tolerating hate speech. No one will do business with them and the government will likely squash their balls into oblivion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 28, 2018, 08:20:52 PM
Gab is like Twitter for Nazis.

GoDaddy is kicking them out as well..    https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1056708683130781696

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on October 29, 2018, 08:24:51 AM
So, let me get this straight,  D1 is a friend of yours from way back,  I understand that,  but you stood by and watched him go off the rails into psycho-land when everyone here was trying to warn him that the path he was travelling on would lead to madness. 

I hindsight,  that approach of trying to reason with him was probably never going to work,  he got so deep into the Anon bullshit he was never going to get out with his mind intact.

The anti-semitic stuff he posted was over the top, and he rightly got bammed for it.  Stop defending the indefensible.

He never went off the rails, y'all were being trolled and didn't realize it. When he realized how people were here, he gave up.

I never saw the anti-Semitic things he supposedly posted and no one every showed proof...I know you didn't see it either.

He doesn't hate Jews or any race for that matter.


Now, as always you are trying to change the subject...I am talking about you Rayzor...no one else, you...quit trying to deflect
D1 actually said something about him being an anti semite himself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2018, 03:15:45 PM
He never went off the rails, y'all were being trolled and didn't realize it.
So he was either unhinged or pretending to be unhinged?  What are we to make of that?


Quote
Now, as always you are trying to change the subject...I am talking about you Rayzor...
You're not really saying anything though, are you?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 30, 2018, 12:16:01 AM
He never went off the rails, y'all were being trolled and didn't realize it.
So he was either unhinged or pretending to be unhinged?  What are we to make of that?


Quote
Now, as always you are trying to change the subject...I am talking about you Rayzor...
You're not really saying anything though, are you?

BHS never thinks very far ahead,  that's why he seems a bit stupid at times,  but I don't believe he is that dumb,  he just lacks intellectual perspective.  :) LOL

As sad as it seems,  I suspect the way in which d1 was radicalized by social media, is very much similar to the shooter in this jewish massacre was radicalized by the lies and crazy conspiracies being pushed by 4chan and their kindred alt-right people.

The amount of anti-semitic crap that infects 4chan is overwhelming.  I don't know how you counter lies like that.  But someone has to learn how.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 08, 2018, 06:20:33 AM
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-thousand-oaks-20181107-story.html



Quote
A gunman threw smoke bombs and rained bullets on a crowd of hundreds inside a Thousand Oaks bar Wednesday night, killing a dozen people including a Ventura County Sheriff’s Department sergeant who was trying to stop the carnage.

Authorities have not yet identified the gunman, who died in the incident, or any of the victims inside the bar.

And another...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2018, 06:43:26 AM
Time to make smoke bombs illegal!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 08, 2018, 07:53:48 AM
Time to make smoke bombs illegal!
Then only the criminals have smoke bombs.  Responsible citizens should all carry one.   Imagine how that bar scene would have played out if everyone their had a smoke bomb they could have set off?  Hmmmm?  Makes you think.

Join the NSBA now!  They are the only ones protecting our constitutional rights.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 08, 2018, 11:06:37 AM
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-thousand-oaks-20181107-story.html



Quote
A gunman threw smoke bombs and rained bullets on a crowd of hundreds inside a Thousand Oaks bar Wednesday night, killing a dozen people including a Ventura County Sheriff’s Department sergeant who was trying to stop the carnage.

Authorities have not yet identified the gunman, who died in the incident, or any of the victims inside the bar.

And another...

I know I'm getting a little too used to these when my first is, well, at least it wasn't a bunch of children this time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 08, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
The NRA advises people in the medical field to stay in their lane. lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 08, 2018, 03:29:26 PM
Time to make this thread a sticky?   

Now I'm waiting for Sarah Huckabee Sanders to release fake video showing Jim Acosta was the Thousand Oaks gunman...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 08, 2018, 04:53:14 PM
Probably not necessary to sticky it. There's more than enough mass shootings to keep it near the top.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 08, 2018, 11:28:39 PM
Probably not necessary to sticky it. There's more than enough mass shootings to keep it near the top.

Yep, that was the sad and pithy point I was obliquely trying to make. 

We have crazy people in Australia as well,  but they mostly don't have easy access to guns.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on November 09, 2018, 07:37:14 AM
He was a veteran. Veterans don’t shoot up bars. Something wasn’t right. Guns sure make killing easy but there are other issues that should be addressed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 09, 2018, 08:12:07 AM
His PTSD should have been addressed. There are lots of our veterans who are suicidal, lots of them who need help. I have never understood how a country that claims to "respect the troops" can turn its back on them after they come home. We have a long history of this, it's nothing new.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 09, 2018, 05:07:17 PM
We just had an islamic terrorist attack in Australia yesterday,  he attacked people in the center of Melbourne with a knife,  killed one and stabbed two others before being shot by Police. 

https://www.news.com.au/news/national/melbourne-stabbing-attack-was-terrorism-incident-police-say-as-islamic-state-claims-it/news-story/95ad6cca7af9e87528d814a6b96f693e

I shudder to imagine what he could have done if he had an AR15.  Luckily there was a passerby with a shopping trolley to ward off the attack.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 09, 2018, 06:00:48 PM
Why was he allowed access to a knife?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 09, 2018, 06:09:30 PM
Why was he allowed access to a knife?

They were all out of AR15's I guess.  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 09, 2018, 07:01:17 PM
Why was he allowed access to a knife?

They were all out of AR15's I guess.  :)

Police as usual took too long in their response. Given the politics around Somali violence in Melbourne.... They riot yelling 'police can't touch us' and it's so far been true.

Props to the cop who had the balls to put this bastard down

Props to the trolley man too
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 09, 2018, 07:45:47 PM
Props to the cop who had the balls to put this bastard down

Props to the trolley man too

We agree for once. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 10, 2018, 07:40:52 AM
So how do you Aussies defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with one of those banned AR-15's?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 10, 2018, 09:06:21 AM
So how do you Aussies defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with one of those banned AR-15's?

Can't recall that ever happening,  but in any case we don't live in fear of such things. 

If you live in a society where you think that sort of thing is likely then there is something wrong with that society.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 10, 2018, 09:11:34 AM
He was a veteran. Veterans don’t shoot up bars.
Well this one did...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 10, 2018, 09:14:39 AM
So how do you Aussies defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with one of those banned AR-15's?

Can't recall that ever happening,  but in any case we don't live in fear of such things. 

If you live in a society where you think that sort of thing is likely then there is something wrong with that society.

So, did all the criminals and gangs and whatnot turn in their guns during the gun grab?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2018, 11:16:11 AM
So how do you Aussies defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with one of those banned AR-15's?

Shopping carts.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 10, 2018, 12:42:24 PM
So how do you Aussies defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with one of those banned AR-15's?
How do you Americans defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with a tank?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: rabinoz on November 10, 2018, 02:55:18 PM
So how do you Aussies defend yourselves if a burglar breaks into your house with one of those banned AR-15's?

Can't recall that ever happening,  but in any case, we don't live in fear of such things. 

If you live in a society where you think that sort of thing is likely then there is something wrong with that society.

So, did all the criminals and gangs and whatnot turn in their guns during the gun grab?
Nope, but most gun casualties are not from "criminals and gangs" but from idiots with hand-guns accidentally or intentionally shooting themselves and/or their kids or their kids getting unsecured weapons and shooting the gun "owner".

"Criminals and gangs", here at least, most often shoot each other and these "criminals and gangs" are more often interested in theft and not murder.

Then these "criminals and gangs", again here at least, usually get their guns by stealing them from careless gun owners so fewer guns mean that there are fewer for them to steal.

And, as I posted in the other thread, the figures are hard to ignore:
The intentional homicides in:
       United States of America are: rate 5.35 per 100,000, total: 17,250 in 2016 and
                                    Australia are: rate 0.94 per 100,000, total:      227 in 2016.
And Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year:
Country
     Year
     Total
     Homicides
     Suicides
United States
2016
11.96
4.62
7.1
Australia
2016
1.04
0.18
0.8
Note that the Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year in the USA is over 10 times that in Australia and in both countries the suicide rate exceeds the homicide rate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 10, 2018, 04:51:10 PM
So, did all the criminals and gangs and whatnot turn in their guns during the gun grab?

Stupid question. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2018, 04:53:00 PM

Note that the Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year in the USA is over 10 times that in Australia and in both countries the suicide rate exceeds the homicide rate.

What are the stats from before guns were collected?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: rabinoz on November 10, 2018, 06:24:55 PM

Note that the Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year in the USA is over 10 times that in Australia and in both countries the suicide rate exceeds the homicide rate.

What are the stats from before guns were collected?
Quote
National Firearms Agreement (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Agreement)
The National Firearms Agreement (NFA), also sometimes called the National Agreement on Firearms, the National Firearms Agreement and Buyback Program, or the Nationwide Agreement on Firearms, was an agreement concerning firearm control made by Australasian Police Ministers' Council (APMC) in 1996, in response to the Port Arthur massacre that killed 35 people. The laws to give effect to the Agreement were passed by Australian State governments only 12 days after the Port Arthur massacre.

The NFA placed tight control on semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons, although permitted their use by licensed individuals who required them for a purpose other than 'personal protection'. The act included a gun buy-back provision.

Negotiation and implementation of the Agreement was originally coordinated in 1996 by then-Prime Minister of Australia John Howard.[1] Since then the Agreement has continued to have support from both Labor and Coalition Federal Governments. The Australian Police Ministers Council (APMC), comprising state and federal police ministers, meets at least every six months at which issues including the NFA are discussed. Changes to the NFA require the unanimous agreement of all governments. At a meeting on 21 October 2016 it was agreed to hold a firearm amnesty by mid-2017.

A study found that there were no mass shooting deaths of five or more in Australia from 1997 through 2006, though the authors note that it is impossible to prove the agreement was the cause.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mn63fo9a5o3yjtc/Australia%2C%20Total%20Number%20of%20Gun%20Deaths%20by%20year.jpg?dl=1)
It should be remembered that even though mass shootings get so much attention they are not the cause of most gun related deaths.
Also, even before those news laws were brought in we had much stricter laws than the USA and while there was (and is) plenty of hunting there never was the "culture" here that seems acceptable there.

Switzerland is an interesting case. There's hardly a household without a military grade weapon.
Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year:
Country
     Year
     Total
     Homicides
     Suicides
     Small arms/100
United States
2016
11.96
4.62
7.1
120.5
Australia
2016
1.04
0.18
0.8
14.5
Switzerland
2013
3.01
0.21(2015)
2.74
27.6
Quote
Firearms legislation in Switzerland allows the free purchase of semi-automatic, but not fully automatic firearms by Swiss citizens and foreigners with permanent residence. Permits for concealed carrying in public are issued sparingly.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Swiss gun culture has emerged from a long tradition of shooting, which served as a formative element of national identity in the post-Napoleonic Restoration of the Confederacy, and the long-standing practice of a militia organization of the Swiss Army in which soldiers' service rifles are stored privately at their homes.
Quote
Conscription in Switzerland
Switzerland has mandatory military service in the Swiss Army for all able-bodied male citizens, who are conscripted when they reach the age of majority, though women may volunteer for any position.
But Swiss gun ownership is still only one quarter of USA's.

Mooses take care, beware! If it moves shoot it. If it doesn't move, still shoot it just for fun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2018, 06:50:51 PM
Thank you, rabinoz. I will investigate and ruminate on your data.
I may actually be ready to re-evaluate my position. Slightly.
Given an acceptable proposal.   ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: rabinoz on November 10, 2018, 07:26:34 PM
Thank you, rabinoz. I will investigate and ruminate on your data.
I may actually be ready to re-evaluate my position. Slightly.
I'm not expecting you to change and quite honestly I can't see any chance of meaningful gun control in the USA.
It seems too ingrained in the culture.
In USA it seems that owning and carrying a firearm is thought to be protection but so often either the victim shoots themself or has it turned on them.
The constitution could easily be interpreted somewhat differently but that's the easy part.
And, of course, gun control is not and never will be any magic cure. The hard part is people control - human nature.

Bye, don't shoot yourself in the foot or in the . . . . . and it's happened ;D!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on November 11, 2018, 05:35:47 AM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tennessee-shelby-county-deadly-shooting-today-2018-11-11/

2 dead, 4 wounded, ages 13 - 21. Over gambling, apparently.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 11, 2018, 07:31:08 AM
The gun culture in the US has changed a lot since the NRA became lobbyists for gun manufacturers. Every time there is a shooting people run out and buy guns because they've been made to believe that this will bring about government gun confiscations. THEY'RE GONNA TAKE OUR GUNS!! There have always been people who have guns who shoudn't really have them, but now there are more and more of them. People who never had a gun before, didn't grow up with gun safety rules, don't know how to properly store their weapons, learned how to shoot from tv shows, etc etc.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 04:02:50 AM
The most hilarious attempted shooting just happened:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7150541/Officials-suspect-exchange-gunfire-outside-Texas-courthouse.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490

The dude was so pathetic he's not even threatening or anything. He had a photo of him in a knight armor with a gun and holding a waifu body pillow. It's the most surreal thing. Obviously he got shot by a security guard before he could do anything, although I'm pretty sure even without a guard he'd just trip and fall on his sword (yes, he had a sword with him).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 18, 2019, 04:37:18 AM
The dude was so pathetic he's not even threatening or anything.

(https://i.imgur.com/4c2Oscz.png?1)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 05:07:47 AM
The dude was so pathetic he's not even threatening or anything.

(https://i.imgur.com/4c2Oscz.png?1)
He looks like he's lost or something.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 18, 2019, 05:12:41 AM
Oh, he definitely lost.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 18, 2019, 05:34:48 AM
Dude would have needed psychological help (not in form of a bullet).
I think it's tragic that a human life has ended this way. I'm happy noone else died, but I nevertheless can't understand all the people making fun of and celebrating his death.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 06:14:27 AM
Dude would have needed psychological help (not in form of a bullet).
I think it's tragic that a human life has ended this way. I'm happy noone else died, but I nevertheless can't understand all the people making fun of and celebrating his death.
Dude almost killed a bunch of people. Don't forget he was in the army, if he had any very serious mental issues they wouldn't have taken him. Lots of people have mental issues, they don't just go and shoot up a bunch of people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 18, 2019, 06:21:39 AM
Dude would have needed psychological help (not in form of a bullet).
I think it's tragic that a human life has ended this way. I'm happy noone else died, but I nevertheless can't understand all the people making fun of and celebrating his death.

When you live in America you have to learn how to laugh at pointless mass death.

(https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/104645470-DGz4YT1VwAEF4ZT.jpg?v=1502377388&w=630&h=850)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 18, 2019, 07:30:20 AM
Dude would have needed psychological help (not in form of a bullet).
I think it's tragic that a human life has ended this way. I'm happy noone else died, but I nevertheless can't understand all the people making fun of and celebrating his death.
Dude almost killed a bunch of people. Don't forget he was in the army, if he had any very serious mental issues they wouldn't have taken him. Lots of people have mental issues, they don't just go and shoot up a bunch of people.
Yes I know and I'm not defending what he did.
It's just my opinion, but I don't think anybody is genetically a murderer. So that means that in other circumstances, the guy would not have been (or tried to be) a murderer/shooter (and it also means that in theory it would have been preventable). That makes me sad and I don't think it's appropriate to joke about it (but I don't blame andyone that does it).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 08:39:33 AM
It's just my opinion, but I don't think anybody is genetically a murderer.
It makes it worse that he isn't genetically a murderer...

Quote
So that means that in other circumstances, the guy would not have been (or tried to be) a murderer/shooter (and it also means that in theory it would have been preventable).
Well in other circumstances maybe Hitler would be a really cool guy. In other circumstances maybe even you would be a really cool guy!

If they caught him alive it would be better but now he died and it's kinda funny that he did before he did anything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 18, 2019, 08:43:28 AM
It makes it worse that he isn't genetically a murderer...
No it only means that in other circumstances he would not have been one, so it makes it tragic.

If they caught him alive it would be better but now he died and it's kinda funny that he did before he did anything.
Yeah that's my point, I don't think the death of any person is funny. But as I said I don't judge you too hard for making fun of him. I just personally don't feel like it's tragic and not funny.

Quote
In other circumstances maybe even you would be a really cool guy!
I cannot think of any circumstances that would make me any cooler than I already am.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 09:04:40 AM
It makes it worse that he isn't genetically a murderer...
No it only means that in other circumstances he would not have been one, so it makes it tragic.
If you're genetically a murderer, then you didn't really have any choice, no?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 18, 2019, 09:07:47 AM
It makes it worse that he isn't genetically a murderer...
No it only means that in other circumstances he would not have been one, so it makes it tragic.
If you're genetically a murderer, then you didn't really have any choice, no?
Yeah that's what I'm saying: He was NOT genetically predetermined to be a murderer, but what happened in his whole life lead him to being one. Which I find to be sad and tragic, because it could have ended differently.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 10:31:04 AM
Yeah that's what I'm saying: He was NOT genetically predetermined to be a murderer, but what happened in his whole life lead him to being one.
But then it's worse, because if you do have a choice you don't have as much of an excuse...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 18, 2019, 10:43:36 AM
Yeah that's what I'm saying: He was NOT genetically predetermined to be a murderer, but what happened in his whole life lead him to being one.
But then it's worse, because if you do have a choice you don't have as much of an excuse...
I'm not talking about a moral point of view.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 18, 2019, 01:11:41 PM
Yeah that's what I'm saying: He was NOT genetically predetermined to be a murderer, but what happened in his whole life lead him to being one.
But then it's worse, because if you do have a choice you don't have as much of an excuse...
I'm not talking about a moral point of view.
Isn't that the most relevant point of view here though?

I kinda understand what you're coming from but also this guy as things were was hateful and murderous so I'm not sad he died before he could kill other people. As I said, better if he had been caught alive but this outcome was ok.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 18, 2019, 01:19:53 PM
Yeah that's what I'm saying: He was NOT genetically predetermined to be a murderer, but what happened in his whole life lead him to being one.
But then it's worse, because if you do have a choice you don't have as much of an excuse...
I'm not talking about a moral point of view.
Isn't that the most relevant point of view here though?

I kinda understand what you're coming from but also this guy as things were was hateful and murderous so I'm not sad he died before he could kill other people. As I said, better if he had been caught alive but this outcome was ok.
My point is that it's very tragic that a human being can get to the point where he thinks murdering is the right/only way to go. As I find that very tragic, I don't think joking about his death is funny.
Obviously I also rather have him dead than him shooting anyone. Still, not funny in my eyes.

As I said, I don't judge you very much if you joke about it. Just wanted to express my opinion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 18, 2019, 06:41:38 PM
The most hilarious attempted shooting just happened:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7150541/Officials-suspect-exchange-gunfire-outside-Texas-courthouse.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490

The dude was so pathetic he's not even threatening or anything. He had a photo of him in a knight armor with a gun and holding a waifu body pillow. It's the most surreal thing. Obviously he got shot by a security guard before he could do anything, although I'm pretty sure even without a guard he'd just trip and fall on his sword (yes, he had a sword with him).

I watched this after the first shots was fired. My place is about 80 feet from there, and being 30 plus stories high gave a very good view.

He tired to do damage, he tried firing through the glass first at people in the lobby. He then took cover, seemed very brave until shots started to be returned he then froze up. Got locked up by a pillar, they flanked him and he had no where to go, took off in the parking lot where he was dropped. Ambulance came and picked him up.

They also detonated a bomb in his car, pushed it in the street with an armored personnel carrier, then blew it up with a robot.

They just now released the cars from that side fed lot. They had it in lock down till about an hour ago.

It will be interesting to see if people say this is fake, saw it with my own two eyes.

He was obviously mental thinking he was in a video game, but he did try to kill people so fuck him. If the glass wasn't 3 panel scatter glass, he probably would have.

Just sucks, to get home right now you have to show proof of residence, hopefully be over soon.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 18, 2019, 06:47:12 PM
Oh, and I have to give credit to that photographer, definitely had some balls.

He went out after the original gunfire through the back emergency exit at the old building. Came around the side between my building and the federal building and starting snapping pictures. This was before anyone got outside...so it was just people running, the gunman and the photographer.

Security ran inside when he first fired until they flanked from another exit.

The photographer was in the lobby he attempted to shoot up, could have been a victim if it weren't for the glass.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 02:09:56 AM
The most hilarious attempted shooting just happened:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7150541/Officials-suspect-exchange-gunfire-outside-Texas-courthouse.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490

The dude was so pathetic he's not even threatening or anything. He had a photo of him in a knight armor with a gun and holding a waifu body pillow. It's the most surreal thing. Obviously he got shot by a security guard before he could do anything, although I'm pretty sure even without a guard he'd just trip and fall on his sword (yes, he had a sword with him).

I watched this after the first shots was fired. My place is about 80 feet from there, and being 30 plus stories high gave a very good view.

He tired to do damage, he tried firing through the glass first at people in the lobby. He then took cover, seemed very brave until shots started to be returned he then froze up. Got locked up by a pillar, they flanked him and he had no where to go, took off in the parking lot where he was dropped. Ambulance came and picked him up.

They also detonated a bomb in his car, pushed it in the street with an armored personnel carrier, then blew it up with a robot.

They just now released the cars from that side fed lot. They had it in lock down till about an hour ago.

It will be interesting to see if people say this is fake, saw it with my own two eyes.

He was obviously mental thinking he was in a video game, but he did try to kill people so fuck him. If the glass wasn't 3 panel scatter glass, he probably would have.

Just sucks, to get home right now you have to show proof of residence, hopefully be over soon.
Oh wow I forgot you lived there, crazy that you saw this. Some people say it's fake but it's not that many. And yeah, the photographer definitely had balls.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 02:20:01 AM
Damn, the idea of looking out of your window and seeing something like this going on is really frightening (but also fascinating in a weird way).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Damn, the idea of looking out of your window and seeing something like this going on is really frightening (but also fascinating in a weird way).
MURICAH is the country where you can look at someone with a sword in his belt trying to shoot up a courthouse outside your window.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 03:04:36 AM
Damn, the idea of looking out of your window and seeing something like this going on is really frightening (but also fascinating in a weird way).
MURICAH is the country where you can look at someone with a sword in his belt trying to shoot up a courthouse outside your window.

That's true. And the chance of seeing this or something similar is ridiculously high!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 19, 2019, 03:21:58 AM
Damn, the idea of looking out of your window and seeing something like this going on is really frightening (but also fascinating in a weird way).
MURICAH is the country where you can look at someone with a sword in his belt trying to shoot up a courthouse outside your window.

That's true. And the chance of seeing this or something similar is ridiculously high!

I live dead in the center of downtown Dallas for the most part...this is the first attempted mass shooting I have seen and at 35 years old now.

Doubt I would see another.

I don't think I would consider a possible once in a life time chance a high risk...

Oh, and just because I think this will grind your gears, but there is also some truth to it. What stopped this guy??

Good guys with guns...no one was injured but the aggressor.

Some people say it's fake but it's not that many.

Well it just happened, give them time...

If you see any, or anyone for that matter, I would like to see it if all possible.

Just for curiosity and research.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 04:39:26 AM
I live dead in the center of downtown Dallas for the most part...this is the first attempted mass shooting I have seen and at 35 years old now.

Doubt I would see another.
I'm just saying that the chances are ridiculously high, this is obviously in comparison to - for example - where I live and not in absolute numbers. I will admit that I purposely worded it the way I did to trigger 'muricans (surprise - it worked!).

Quote
I don't think I would consider a possible once in a life time chance a high risk...
I never even talked about 'risk'. But yes, a 'once in a lifetime chance' to get shot, I would consider that quite a high risk!

Quote
Oh, and just because I think this will grind your gears, but there is also some truth to it. What stopped this guy??

Good guys with guns...no one was injured but the aggressor.
LOL do you really think that my believe is that police and other security forces shouldn't be allowed to carry guns?

Quote
Well it just happened, give them time...

If you see any, or anyone for that matter, I would like to see it if all possible.

Just for curiosity and research
The conspiracytards are usually on 4chan or 8chan. I recommend you look there.
I hope that this opens your eyes and you realize that likely most of the conspiracy theories you are a believer of are utter bullshit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 06:45:13 AM
picture of the photographer:
(https://i.imgur.com/m6lR4ll.png)


What a motherfucking madlad! I didn't realize he was THAT close!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 06:53:32 AM
I don't think I would consider a possible once in a life time chance a high risk...
Never say never!

Quote
If you see any, or anyone for that matter, I would like to see it if all possible.

Just for curiosity and research.
There was this thread here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/c1vfjo/oh_lookthere_just_happened_to_be_a_photographer/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Not that many people cared much though, we'll see I guess.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 06:55:14 AM
picture of the photographer:
(https://i.imgur.com/m6lR4ll.png)


What a motherfucking madlad! I didn't realize he was THAT close!
Yeah, I saw that picture, it's pretty crazy. Maybe he was encouraged by how non threatening the idiot looked.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 06:57:18 AM
I don't think I would consider a possible once in a life time chance a high risk...
Never say never!

Quote
If you see any, or anyone for that matter, I would like to see it if all possible.

Just for curiosity and research.
There was this thread here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/c1vfjo/oh_lookthere_just_happened_to_be_a_photographer/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Not that many people cared much though, we'll see I guess.
From what I recall the photogarpher was inside, then went through the backdoor exit to take that picture.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 07:10:16 AM
I still don't understand why that guy decided to shoot up a court..
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 19, 2019, 08:32:45 AM
picture of the photographer:
(https://i.imgur.com/m6lR4ll.png)


What a motherfucking madlad! I didn't realize he was THAT close!

Yep, that is why I wanted to give him props. Yes the guy looked like a moron, but still, he had already tried to shoot into the lobby at this point with an AR, so stupid looking or not, it was definitely serious.

That picture is from 12 story building across the street from me that is half office half living area. The place from where the photographer came from was from the fire exit between my building and the federal building that links a small parking garage.

He popped out whenever the feds ran inside originally when he started firing.

I was shocked, when I first saw him come out, I thought he was a plain clothes agents about to take a shot before I realized it was just a damn camera.

Give that man a raise
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 08:38:00 AM
Give that man a raise
And a tele lens, I suggest a decent 200-600mm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 19, 2019, 08:48:54 AM
Give that man a raise
And a tele lens, I suggest a decent 200-600mm.

Ha ha .. I like it when you say funny things...it's rare, you should try it more often.

Also, one thing that is stupid...this guy attacked THIS federal building. Not only does it house an FBI office. It houses Homeland security and US Marshalls, two of the craziest and most ruthless agencies out there.

Though, interesting enough it was an FBI guy that got the kill shot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 09:33:16 AM
I was shocked, when I first saw him come out, I thought he was a plain clothes agents about to take a shot before I realized it was just a damn camera.
Well technically he did take a shot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 09:35:33 AM
Give that man a raise
And a tele lens, I suggest a decent 200-600mm.
Give him that and he'd still get within like 5 meters to take a closeup of his eyes or something.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 19, 2019, 05:28:15 PM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 19, 2019, 06:13:04 PM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.

Is that a Reddit group?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 19, 2019, 11:06:28 PM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.

Is that a Reddit group?

Yes, and if you are on there for more than 30minutes, you start to lose faith in humanity. Seriouisly, that place is the maximum of stupidity that any online community can reach.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on June 20, 2019, 12:53:41 AM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.

Is that a Reddit group?
Yes, it's a Trump fanbase.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Hapa Kegbar on June 20, 2019, 01:14:43 AM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.

Is that a Reddit group?

Yes, and if you are on there for more than 30minutes, you start to lose faith in humanity. Seriouisly, that place is the maximum of stupidity that any online community can reach.

That's offensive to Boomers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on June 20, 2019, 01:16:22 AM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.

Is that a Reddit group?

Yes, and if you are on there for more than 30minutes, you start to lose faith in humanity. Seriouisly, that place is the maximum of stupidity that any online community can reach.

That's offensive to Boomers.

No, it's offensive to the brain of everyone that accidently lands in that subreddit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Hapa Kegbar on June 20, 2019, 01:21:09 AM
CFC was right, it took them a while but now it looks like the entire r/The_Donald has decided the attack was a false flag.

Is that a Reddit group?

Yes, and if you are on there for more than 30minutes, you start to lose faith in humanity. Seriouisly, that place is the maximum of stupidity that any online community can reach.

That's offensive to Boomers.

No, it's offensive to the brain of everyone that accidently lands in that subreddit.

Can't say I've ever spent time on reddit but it's pretty boomer tier.
Trust the plan, Invade Iran.
See it even rhymes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 03, 2019, 01:14:23 PM
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/el-paso-tx-shooting-live-updates/index.html

The shooter is in custody, there are multiple deaths and at least 22 injured.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 03, 2019, 02:09:09 PM
If only Texas had less restrictive gun laws, a good guy with a gun would have stopped this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 03, 2019, 03:16:21 PM
NBC is reporting at least 19 dead, now. Also there is a manifesto floating around, but I haven't read it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 03, 2019, 03:30:37 PM
NBC is reporting at least 19 dead, now. Also there is a manifesto floating around, but I haven't read it.

From what I hear its "Immigrants are bad.  This will scare them into not comming here."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 03, 2019, 03:49:28 PM
I've been wringing my hands for years.
What lotion should I use?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 03, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
NBC is reporting at least 19 dead, now. Also there is a manifesto floating around, but I haven't read it.
He references the Christchurch shooter. He also posted it on 4chan. It's some shit about white people being replaced by "Hispanic invaders"

EDIT: 8chan, not 4chan.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 03, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
I wonder how many times his manifesto references trump.

I'm getting ready for the deluge of false flag accusations.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 03, 2019, 05:20:14 PM
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/patrick-crusius-manifesto-el-paso-shooting/

“My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. The media is infamous for fake news. Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that.”
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 03, 2019, 05:35:28 PM
Not a white supremacist...

I'm curious as to how these people would define the term.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 03, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
 
Quote
Racial diversity will disappear as either race mixing or genocide will take place. But the idea of deporting or murdering all non-white Americans is horrific. Many have been here at least as long as the whites, and have done as much to build our country. The best solution to this for now would be to divide America into a confederacy of territories with at least 1 territory for each race. This physical separation would nearly eliminate race mixing and improve social unity by granting each race self-determination within their respective territory(s).

Just where does this dipshit think we could deport non white Americans too?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 03, 2019, 06:04:00 PM
I wonder if he ever clarifies why exactly race mixing is so bad that he needs to gun down a mall.

Maybe I'll read it later.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on August 03, 2019, 08:33:02 PM
I wonder if he ever clarifies why exactly race mixing is so bad that he needs to gun down a mall.

Maybe I'll read it later.

He was from Dallas, I wonder if CFC knows him?,  and evidently radicalized on-line.  "Stochastic Terrorism"   

https://twitter.com/THEAlleyeceeing/status/1157763570593075201
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 03, 2019, 08:46:38 PM
I wonder if he ever clarifies why exactly race mixing is so bad that he needs to gun down a mall.

Maybe I'll read it later.

He was from Dallas, I wonder if CFC knows him?,  and evidently radicalized on-line.  "Stochastic Terrorism"   

https://twitter.com/THEAlleyeceeing/status/1157763570593075201

I don't hang out with loser dipshits who do nothing and blame everyone else for their failings.

Just from the little I read about him, he sounds like a complete pile of shit.

I hope they put him down by firing squad.

Though I will say, shit like this makes me want to carry over put away a gun. I have had my CHL for over a decade but don't carry all the time, dumb shit like this makes me think twice about the times I don't.

Fucking disgusting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on August 04, 2019, 12:22:53 AM
I wonder if he ever clarifies why exactly race mixing is so bad that he needs to gun down a mall.

Maybe I'll read it later.

He was from Dallas, I wonder if CFC knows him?,  and evidently radicalized on-line.  "Stochastic Terrorism"   

https://twitter.com/THEAlleyeceeing/status/1157763570593075201

I don't hang out with loser dipshits who do nothing and blame everyone else for their failings.

Just from the little I read about him, he sounds like a complete pile of shit.

I hope they put him down by firing squad.

Though I will say, shit like this makes me want to carry over put away a gun. I have had my CHL for over a decade but don't carry all the time, dumb shit like this makes me think twice about the times I don't.

Fucking disgusting

Nothing against you personally, but relying on some Glock on a hip/CHL in wallet weekend warrior, amid the utter chaos of some maniac with a civilian AK roaming a crowded food court firing off semi rounds, to be able to flip their table sending their big gulp of orange julius flying, take cover, unholster, safety off and expertly squeeze off a few pinpoint accurate rounds, dropping the assailant like a sack of potatoes...I just don't see it happening like that. I actually think the body count would be higher.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 01:39:27 AM
Not a white supremacist...

I'm curious as to how these people would define the term.
They've gotten too used to saying "I'm not racist, but..." that they've come to believe it. It's basically impossible to be a racist or a white supremacist according to them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 04, 2019, 01:54:19 AM
9 Killed, At Least 16 Injured In Shooting In Dayton, Ohio https://n.pr/2YkHf1n

Anyway, carrying a gun can help but its one of those "after the fact".  And always risks you being shot at by the cops.

What would be better is to stop it from starting.

Kinda like how most people change their brakes before they can't stop anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 02:16:47 AM
Anyway, carrying a gun can help but its one of those "after the fact".  And always risks you being shot at by the cops.

This actually happened relatively recently. But the "good guy with a gun" was black so...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 02:18:03 AM
It's insane how frequent mass shootings have become.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 03:09:25 AM
It is also very cool how the lieutenant governor of Texas in his response to the El Paso shooting all he could do was whinge about antifa. Where did you find all these shameless clowns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 04, 2019, 03:19:41 AM
Anyway, carrying a gun can help but its one of those "after the fact".  And always risks you being shot at by the cops.

This actually happened relatively recently. But the "good guy with a gun" was black so...

Source?

It is also very cool how the lieutenant governor of Texas in his response to the El Paso shooting all he could do was whinge about antifa. Where did you find all these shameless clowns?

Source?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 03:24:43 AM
Anyway, carrying a gun can help but its one of those "after the fact".  And always risks you being shot at by the cops.

This actually happened relatively recently. But the "good guy with a gun" was black so...

Source?

It is also very cool how the lieutenant governor of Texas in his response to the El Paso shooting all he could do was whinge about antifa. Where did you find all these shameless clowns?

Source?
This is the thing about the lieutenant governor of Texas, I'm sorry it's fox news:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-lt-gov-tells-antifa-to-stay-out-of-el-paso-after-walmart-shooting

There is a video of his full statement, it's really bizarre.

Here is the other thing I mentioned:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/us/black-man-killed-alabama-mall-shooting.amp.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 03:30:11 AM
And obviously Andy Ngo, riding on that attention high he had after getting punched, is spreading ridiculous nonsense about antifa planning a 10 day siege of El Paso or some shit lol.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 04, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Odd for the lt. Gov. To talk about an antifa action a month before it supposidly happens.  But I'm sure it was phrased by fox (or asked) to make them seem even worse.

I mean, aren't people with guns a good thing?  If Antifa was at that walmart, they'd have stopped the gunman.  Or are only some patriots allowed to have guns?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 04:46:05 AM
Odd for the lt. Gov. To talk about an antifa action a month before it supposidly happens.  But I'm sure it was phrased by fox (or asked) to make them seem even worse.
No, there's audio from his statement, it's pretty deranged, here is a transcript:

Quote
At this point I would direct you to El Paso PD and let them release that information as they decide to... and I would make them your point of contact. But to the 21 year old that's in custody and, again, law enforcement did an amazing thing, they just did an amazing thing. And uh as your guest I just heard a little bit of your previous guest talking about the crime scene and y'know there's o- there's one or two people shot, you can imagine the size of this crime scene and this will be an investigation that will take them some time uh... y'know this uh... y'know I was uh... looking at a story recently, uh, I just saw in the last couple of days where Antifa is posting uh y'know they wanna come to El Paso and do a 10 day seige. Um, clear message to Antifa: stay out of El Paso. Um, stay out of Texas basically. But we don't need uh them coming in on September 1st, we didn't need them to begin with before this happened. But uh, I would say to Antifa, uh, scratch Texas off your map and don't come in. Uh, it's not the time and place for them to come at any time, but particularly in the aftermath of what just happened in El Paso. So, Antifa, message from the Lieutenant Governor: stay out of Texas.

It was in answer to a question about what more info there is about a potential motive of the suspect. It wasn't even relevant.

There is a whole thing about republicans trying to declare antifa a terrorist organisation (which makes no sense whatsoever for a number of reasons), it seems he just really wanted to complain about them on the wake of a massive shooting by a fascist.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 04, 2019, 08:00:53 AM
The tragedy is that we've done absolutely nothing to stop this and we'll continue to do absolutely nothing.

New Zealand took swift and decisive measures. We have to endure nra deflection and Alex Jones false flag accusations.

At least it wasn't a bunch of children this time. Those are the worst.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 04, 2019, 09:18:15 AM
Lt. Gov Dan Patrick thinks prayer in schools and saluting the flag will stop mass shootings... oh and he also blames video games.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 09:31:32 AM
Lt. Gov Dan Patrick thinks prayer in schools and saluting the flag will stop mass shootings... oh and he also blames video games.
Does anyone believe this shit? That some guy posted some racist manifesto on 8chan and shot up a mall to end the "White genocide" because he played too many videogames and didn't salute the flag enough?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 04, 2019, 09:57:38 AM
Lt. Gov Dan Patrick thinks prayer in schools and saluting the flag will stop mass shootings... oh and he also blames video games.
Does anyone believe this shit? That some guy posted some racist manifesto on 8chan and shot up a mall to end the "White genocide" because he played too many videogames and didn't salute the flag enough?

Yes, there are lots of people who believe that. 

They also believe that spanking and beating kids worked too.  Basically anything from their time was good.  Anything different now is bad.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 10:05:12 AM
Well gee, we play as many videogames as you do and we don't salute the flag, but we don't have mass shootings, how does that happen?

Oh, to be fair we do have school prayer, so maybe that's it, we solved it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 04, 2019, 10:21:11 PM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 04, 2019, 11:56:20 PM
Well at least racist republican media stooges can breathe now, the Dayton shooter wasn't one of their own.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 05, 2019, 12:20:29 AM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?

You can't buy guns online in Texas, I have no idea who told you that.

You can pay for them online, but you have to have them shipped to a store with an FFL, you pay them a few to pick it up and they run the standard background check on you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 05, 2019, 12:30:23 AM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?

You can't buy guns online in Texas, I have no idea who told you that.

You can pay for them online, but you have to have them shipped to a store with an FFL, you pay them a few to pick it up and they run the standard background check on you.

That would be the Dayton police chief.  In the article I linked.
What you said did happen, it was transferred from Texas to a local store.  But that kinda defeats the point of making buying those guns illegal in a state, no?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 05, 2019, 12:54:06 AM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?

You can't buy guns online in Texas, I have no idea who told you that.

You can pay for them online, but you have to have them shipped to a store with an FFL, you pay them a few to pick it up and they run the standard background check on you.

That would be the Dayton police chief.  In the article I linked.
What you said did happen, it was transferred from Texas to a local store.  But that kinda defeats the point of making buying those guns illegal in a state, no?

If he bought it legally like that, then he went through a background check the feds require.

I have always disliked Allen for a few reasons, with this fuck coming from there gives me another.

They should drop all charges against him here and let Mexico take him since he killed nationals. The puss gave up as soon as cops got there. I don't even want him dead, I would love him to spend the rest of his life in a Mexican prison though. Death would be a welcomed release
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 05, 2019, 12:58:00 AM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?

You can't buy guns online in Texas, I have no idea who told you that.

You can pay for them online, but you have to have them shipped to a store with an FFL, you pay them a few to pick it up and they run the standard background check on you.

That would be the Dayton police chief.  In the article I linked.
What you said did happen, it was transferred from Texas to a local store.  But that kinda defeats the point of making buying those guns illegal in a state, no?

If he bought it legally like that, then he went through a background check the feds require.

I have always disliked Allen for a few reasons, with this fuck coming from there gives me another.

They should drop all charges against him here and let Mexico take him since he killed nationals. The puss gave up as soon as cops got there. I don't even want him dead, I would love him to spend the rest of his life in a Mexican prison though. Death would be a welcomed release

Yeah, says he had no red flags or criminal history.  No motive so far either.

And assault rifles are legal in Ohio.  Why he bought it from Texas is anyone's guess.

And a Mexican prison?  Perhaps and I've thought similar about others.  Mexico may be able to extradite him, dunno.

Whose Allen?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 05, 2019, 01:29:12 AM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?

You can't buy guns online in Texas, I have no idea who told you that.

You can pay for them online, but you have to have them shipped to a store with an FFL, you pay them a few to pick it up and they run the standard background check on you.

That would be the Dayton police chief.  In the article I linked.
What you said did happen, it was transferred from Texas to a local store.  But that kinda defeats the point of making buying those guns illegal in a state, no?

If he bought it legally like that, then he went through a background check the feds require.

I have always disliked Allen for a few reasons, with this fuck coming from there gives me another.

They should drop all charges against him here and let Mexico take him since he killed nationals. The puss gave up as soon as cops got there. I don't even want him dead, I would love him to spend the rest of his life in a Mexican prison though. Death would be a welcomed release

Yeah, says he had no red flags or criminal history.  No motive so far either.

And assault rifles are legal in Ohio.  Why he bought it from Texas is anyone's guess.

And a Mexican prison?  Perhaps and I've thought similar about others.  Mexico may be able to extradite him, dunno.

Whose Allen?

Oh, I thought you were talking about the El Paso shooter that was from Allen Texas.

They want to, but I don't think the US is letting it happen because they want to put him through trial. This is unfortunate as I really want Mexico to get their hands on him. He wouldn't last long though I suppose, be dead long before trial
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 05, 2019, 01:54:46 AM
30 seconds to kill 9 people and injure 27.
Oh and he circumvented gun laws by buying in Texas online, because thats a thing.  Wow...

Dayton Police Killed Shooter Within 30 Seconds Of First Shot https://n.pr/2Ko1pO9

Seriously, there was a "good guy with a gun" right there and it wasn't enough to save those 9 people.  When will we stop pretending that civillians with guns is gonna stop a bad buy before people die?

You can't buy guns online in Texas, I have no idea who told you that.

You can pay for them online, but you have to have them shipped to a store with an FFL, you pay them a few to pick it up and they run the standard background check on you.

That would be the Dayton police chief.  In the article I linked.
What you said did happen, it was transferred from Texas to a local store.  But that kinda defeats the point of making buying those guns illegal in a state, no?

If he bought it legally like that, then he went through a background check the feds require.

I have always disliked Allen for a few reasons, with this fuck coming from there gives me another.

They should drop all charges against him here and let Mexico take him since he killed nationals. The puss gave up as soon as cops got there. I don't even want him dead, I would love him to spend the rest of his life in a Mexican prison though. Death would be a welcomed release

Yeah, says he had no red flags or criminal history.  No motive so far either.

And assault rifles are legal in Ohio.  Why he bought it from Texas is anyone's guess.

And a Mexican prison?  Perhaps and I've thought similar about others.  Mexico may be able to extradite him, dunno.

Whose Allen?

Oh, I thought you were talking about the El Paso shooter that was from Allen Texas.

They want to, but I don't think the US is letting it happen because they want to put him through trial. This is unfortunate as I really want Mexico to get their hands on him. He wouldn't last long though I suppose, be dead long before trial

"Death is a release, not a punishment." -Movie Villian
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 05, 2019, 01:58:01 AM
I don't think they're gonna find any motive in the Dayton shooter like that of the El Paso shooter. Seems he was just obsessed with murder, and it's also said he had a rape list and had intimidated some women he knew, he was probably some psycho of the Ted Bundy variety, or some sort of salty incel or something.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 05, 2019, 02:09:29 AM

"Death is a release, not a punishment." -Movie Villian

In this case it is. That is why I want this oxygen thief to experience the Mexican jail experience. Already terrible enough, then when they find out he specifically tried to commit genocide on Mexicans...should certainly raise his experience.

I really want him to learn what praying for said relief really feels like....and I hope he isn't granted said prayer
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on August 05, 2019, 02:49:11 AM

"Death is a release, not a punishment." -Movie Villian

In this case it is. That is why I want this oxygen thief to experience the Mexican jail experience. Already terrible enough, then when they find out he specifically tried to commit genocide on Mexicans...should certainly raise his experience.

I really want him to learn what praying for said relief really feels like....and I hope he isn't granted said prayer

Ok,  so,  suppose I agree,  chuck the white supremacist crazy in a Mexican Prison...  case closed.

Now,  what are you going to do about the other 0.001% impressionable looneys with guns that get all riled up over Trump rallies saying the US is being invaded by thousands and thousands of immigrants.

There are two choices,  get Trump to back off,  ( unlikely, he's more likely to double down ),  secondly,  start a real gun reform program.  Maybe repeal the 2nd amendment as a starting point.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 05, 2019, 04:15:13 AM

I don’t think that is ever going to be an option.

The problem is that much of America has bought in to the idea that gun ownership is integral to their very existence/soul/self-belief , thanks largely to gun manufacturers pushing the fear factor and murican pride, and at this time with so many guns around and the almost abject fear that many people have of “others” (it never ceases to dismay watching US police approach their own citizens), I don’t think they could do it, or even want to do it.

Having this argument with others, it’s like they look at what the UK did after Dunblane and the Aussies and New Zealand after their massacres and lose the plot. NO WAY you faggots, I’m not giving up my guns it’s my right, unfortunately it was also  “A 21-year-old white man in Texas’s” right too, and as the cracks grow all we can expect is more of the same.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on August 05, 2019, 04:32:27 AM
If trump had a pair of balls, he would implement exactly the same strategies Australia and now New Zealand have implemented. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996 when the last mass shooting here, led to firearms reform.

It's real simple. You ban all automatic and semi automatic weapons for citizens and implement a buy back scheme. You take them off the street, period. The exceptions are the Police, Armed forces, and some trained security personell - trained professionals who should use them.

The alternative is these disgraceful mass shootings in America continue and America refuses to learn as other countries had to.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 05, 2019, 05:26:35 AM
The issue is the 2nd amendment.  Few countries have something similar and while well intended, has made gun ownership look American.  So America will never give up their guns unless the 2nd amendment is repealed and even then it'll take 100 years or so for people to forget.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 05, 2019, 06:54:12 AM
I don't think Americans have guns because of the 2nd amendment. It is more of a cultural thing/NRA propaganda.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 08:20:56 AM
We loved guns long before the NRA existed. The NRA changed from being a hunting/sport/safety advocacy group to a political lobby group that works for gun manufacturers. They've successfully convinced lots of people who never would have owned guns to buy guns. They've definitely contributed to the gun hysteria, but the seeds of it were already there. The idea that citizens should be armed is baked into American mythology.

I think there are lots of different things that contribute to these mass shootings (plus ease of access to guns). The older generation believed in the American dream, and the goodness of the US, but now we know it's a lie. There is a general unease about the future. People feel uncertain and worried if they'll have enough to live on, no matter how hard they work. The politicians love to carry around their pocket copies of the Constitution, but have no intention of trying to live up to it. We all know the wealthy run the country. We do not have confidence in our government.  There are other things, like MRA propaganda, and white nationalist propaganda that wouldn't have as strong a following if people still had faith in the country. People want to blame Trump, but he's a symptom of this, not the cause of it. He is making it worse with his rhetoric, of course. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 05, 2019, 08:27:22 AM
If trump had a pair of balls, he would implement exactly the same strategies Australia and now New Zealand have implemented. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996 when the last mass shooting here, led to firearms reform.

It's real simple. You ban all automatic and semi automatic weapons for citizens and implement a buy back scheme. You take them off the street, period. The exceptions are the Police, Armed forces, and some trained security personell - trained professionals who should use them.

The alternative is these disgraceful mass shootings in America continue and America refuses to learn as other countries had to.

Automatic weapons are already banned here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 05, 2019, 08:37:24 AM
We loved guns long before the NRA existed. The NRA changed from being a hunting/sport/safety advocacy group to a political lobby group that works for gun manufacturers. They've successfully convinced lots of people who never would have owned guns to buy guns. They've definitely contributed to the gun hysteria, but the seeds of it were already there. The idea that citizens should be armed is baked into American mythology.
Well, that's why I put both of them there  ;)

Quote
I think there are lots of different things that contribute to these mass shootings (plus ease of access to guns). The older generation believed in the American dream, and the goodness of the US, but now we know it's a lie. There is a general unease about the future. People feel uncertain and worried if they'll have enough to live on, no matter how hard they work. The politicians love to carry around their pocket copies of the Constitution, but have no intention of trying to live up to it. We all know the wealthy run the country. We do not have confidence in our government.  There are other things, like MRA propaganda, and white nationalist propaganda that wouldn't have as strong a following if people still had faith in the country. People want to blame Trump, but he's a symptom of this, not the cause of it. He is making it worse with his rhetoric, of course.
I'm not sure it is exactly not having faith in the country. I mean, if not having faith in the country was a significant factor we'd have all been shot here ages ago lol. It's a weird phenomenon. I think it might have more to do with alienation combined with people getting radicalized to hateful ideologies and some weird social pressure to get laid and harmful ideas for what men should be like, or what they deserve etc. Though I can't fully explain why it is worse in America than in other countries.

One thing that I noticed is that if you're radicalized to some sort of racist extremist ideology here, chances are you will join Golden Dawn or something. When someone is part of an extremist organisation, sure, they're dangerous, however the fate of the organisation lies onto them. If someone from, say, Golden Dawn goes on a shooting spree, there's gonna be a massive crackdown against the organisation and they will all get fucked. Therefore it is not in their interests to let people from their organisation to go completely unhinged, they don't let them do anything without receiving orders. In the US, the people who get radicalized don't join anything. They get radicalised by media and the Internet, and then it's just them and their miserable lives, and they don't give a fuck.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 08:42:16 AM
The 2nd Amendment is a cultural thing, it's there because we believe in being an armed citizenry. (I was going to do the smarmy winky smiley, but I resisted). 

The shooters do give a fuck about something. They wouldn't write manifestos if they didn't.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 05, 2019, 08:46:54 AM
The 2nd Amendment is a cultural thing, it's there because we believe in being an armed citizenry. (I was going to do the smarmy winky smiley, but I resisted). 
It's not smarmy :(

Quote
The shooters do give a fuck about something. They wouldn't write manifestos if they didn't.
Yes, I meant they don't give a fuck about getting killed or reflecting badly on their organisation, because they have none. They are only responsible for themselves, and they don't care about themselves much.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 10:57:29 AM
Part of American mythology is rugged individualism. lol  Other countries that have a real left probably are more collectivist.

Maybe loneliness has something to do with it https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/8/1/20750047/millennials-poll-loneliness? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 05, 2019, 11:04:27 AM
Down goes 8chan.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/456218-8chan-goes-offline-again-after-services-sever-ties-following-mass-shooting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 05, 2019, 11:14:16 AM
Part of American mythology is rugged individualism. lol  Other countries that have a real left probably are more collectivist.

Maybe loneliness has something to do with it https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/8/1/20750047/millennials-poll-loneliness?
Might have something to do with this. You're definitely right about loneliness and alienation too. Not sure how one goes about fixing that though.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 11:19:13 AM


While I'm not totally against the death penalty as a punishment for mass shooters, I am against the notion of "hate crimes".  I am also against the notion of speeding up the process. It should not be easy for the state to execute people. The desire for quickness is the desire for revenge. The state should be measured in its decision to punish someone.

I do have problems with the death penalty but that is a different topic.

Also, I haven't watched Trump speak for a long time, he seems so strange.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 11:49:18 AM
Down goes 8chan.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/456218-8chan-goes-offline-again-after-services-sever-ties-following-mass-shooting

Hotwheels (Fredrick Brennan, former owner of 8chan) has commented at KF https://kiwifarms.net/threads/8chan-is-a-megaphone-for-shooters-shut-the-site-down-says-its-creator.59265/post-5116596
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 02:25:28 PM
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yekp/exclusive-dayton-shooter-was-in-a-pornogrind-band-that-released-songs-about-raping-and-killing-women

Quote
Before he killed nine people in a mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday, Connor Betts was deeply involved in the misogynistic, male-dominated “goregrind” or “pornogrind” hardcore music scene. It has a regional following in the Midwest and is known for sexually violent, death-obsessed lyrics and dehumanizing imagery depicting women.

Over the past year, the 24-year-old shooter occasionally performed live vocals in the band Menstrual Munchies, which released albums titled “6 Ways of Female Butchery” and “Preeteen Daughter Pu$$y Slaughter,” with cover art showing the rape and massacre of female bodies. He also performed with a group called Putrid Liquid.

Wow, I never heard of "pornogrind".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 05, 2019, 02:54:24 PM
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yekp/exclusive-dayton-shooter-was-in-a-pornogrind-band-that-released-songs-about-raping-and-killing-women

Quote
Before he killed nine people in a mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday, Connor Betts was deeply involved in the misogynistic, male-dominated “goregrind” or “pornogrind” hardcore music scene. It has a regional following in the Midwest and is known for sexually violent, death-obsessed lyrics and dehumanizing imagery depicting women.

Over the past year, the 24-year-old shooter occasionally performed live vocals in the band Menstrual Munchies, which released albums titled “6 Ways of Female Butchery” and “Preeteen Daughter Pu$$y Slaughter,” with cover art showing the rape and massacre of female bodies. He also performed with a group called Putrid Liquid.

Wow, I never heard of "pornogrind".
I think for every combination of words that sounds vaguely gross there is a music subgenre.

Anyways that freak obviously had serious sexually violent and misogynistic tendencies, I read somewhere he had a rape list or something.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 05, 2019, 04:09:49 PM
I wonder if the media knows they are doing exactly like that oxygen thief's manifesto said.

I was hoping they wouldn't just so nothing he said would be correct.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on August 05, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
Thanks, Celine Dion, yes automatic weapons are already banned, but it's the semi-automatic weapons that are routinely used in these mass shootings. The rights to bare arms in America stems from the American Civil War.

One thing America does have right though, is the death penalty in some of the states. In Australia, Australia's last mass shooter, Martin Bryant, is still living it up in an Australian prison, 23 years later, still bragging about the people he killed and describing in graphic detail to whoever will listen, each death. That piece of shit should have experienced at least death by firing squad or as they do in China, a bullet to the back of the head and then send the bill for the bullet to the executed person's family.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 05, 2019, 06:21:09 PM
The right to bear arms stems from the American Revolution, the Civil War was much later.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on August 06, 2019, 12:49:46 AM
The right to bear arms stems from the American Revolution, the Civil War was much later.

Yes, you're quite right, and I'm wrong. I knew it was one of the two. The American Revolution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 06, 2019, 01:35:31 AM
I wonder if the media knows they are doing exactly like that oxygen thief's manifesto said.

I was hoping they wouldn't just so nothing he said would be correct.
So... Um... Would you rather they don't say it was some racist guy because he said in his manifesto "I know the media will call me racist" or whatever? What? So if he said in his manifesto "I know the media said I killed a bunch of innocent people for nothing" would you want them to say "he killed a bunch of guilty fucks and he was damn right to do it" so that nothing in his manifesto is right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 06, 2019, 06:31:35 AM
The media has to report these things, but they don't have to sensationalize it. The way it is reported sometimes spawns other mass shootings, like a contagion. I don't know how they should do it, but definitely don't need to make the shooter some kind of star.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 08:28:19 AM
.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 06, 2019, 08:34:31 AM
Excellent point. Looks like there's nothing we can do except for invest in child sized coffin makers.

Sure wish we could figure why this is the only country that has this problem.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 08:37:35 AM
At least some of these could have been prevented if the FBI and other law enforcement actually acted on the red flags of some of these shooters. Enforce the darn law.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 06, 2019, 08:45:04 AM

Trump.
"Mental illness and hate pull the trigger, not the gun,"
"May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo, may God protect them.”

Wistfully,…….. Obama.
"We should soundly reject language coming out of the mouths of any of our leaders that feeds a climate of fear and hatred or normalises racist sentiments; leaders who demonise those who don't look like us, or suggest that other people, including immigrants, threaten our way of life, or refer to other people as sub-human, or imply that America belongs to just one certain type of people,"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 06, 2019, 08:59:48 AM
Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 09:04:57 AM
Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

So I can waltz up into a gun shop and buy a fully automatic AK-47?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 06, 2019, 09:12:13 AM
Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

So I can waltz up into a gun shop and buy a fully automatic AK-47?

No, because that falls under the definition of an assault rifle.

What you can do in many states is, as an individual is: setup a trust, apply for a class 3 SOT, and once approved buy a wide variety of fully automatic weapons that don't fall under the assault rifle ban. You can also buy suppressors and kevlar jackets at that time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 09:20:15 AM
Isn't a class 3 SOT the license that a seller can get to sell Title II weapons?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 06, 2019, 09:55:47 AM
Isn't a class 3 SOT the license that a seller can get to sell Title II weapons?

Correct. As an individual you can create a trust or LLC, get a FFL, get a class 3 SOT, and then purchase/sell those weapons (which include machine guns, suppressors, etc.). It is easier to do this in some states over others.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal? It worked when we did it for drugs....oh wait...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 06, 2019, 03:31:02 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 03:33:40 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 06, 2019, 03:40:32 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.

What a weird thought exercise...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on August 06, 2019, 03:41:13 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.
Yes, that's why we should do nothing. So as not to piss off the gangs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 03:44:03 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.
Yes, that's why we should do nothing. So as not to piss off the gangs.

Just saying, it would be kind of hard to confiscate guns from them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 03:51:16 PM
Not to mention all the law-abiding gun owners.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 06, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
I know a lot of rednecks who would be more dangerous to take guns away from than gang members.

Wesker, instead of reeeing about guns, what do you think would help stop these mass shootings?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 03:57:26 PM
I know a lot of rednecks who would be more dangerous to take guns away from than gang members.

Wesker, instead of reeeing about guns, what do you think would help stop these mass shootings?

For one, the government actually enforcing existing gun laws and not letting red flags slip through. I wouldn't mind stricter background checks, with a focus on the mental health aspect, up to a certain point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 06, 2019, 04:05:26 PM
I agree about the background checks and mental health stuff, but I think a lot of these shooters would pass all that. There is something really weird going on in our country.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 06, 2019, 04:06:09 PM
Not to mention all the law-abiding gun owners.

Well when guns are inevitably made illegal after the 2A is repealed, then they won't be law-abiding anymore. And since they are law-abiding folks there clearly won't be any issue in confiscating them.

Sarcasm aside, I doubt the 2A is going anywhere in our lifetime, so it would be best to work with its framework. Mandatory background checks for all sales public/retail and private. High capacity magazine restrictions, upping the age to 21 for everything but basically bolt action hunting rifles. Oh, and a massive increase in mental health services and confidential outreach programs facilitated by universal healthcare. The last time I bought a firearm from an FFL dealer, I filled out a small checklist where I self-attested that I wasn't crazy and didn't want to hurt myself or others. Obviously that is a worthless step (not sure if it has changed as this was over 10 years ago). Obviously you can't just remove a constitutional right based on a suspicion someone might be unhinged. I legit don't have a good answer for the problem of getting guns away from those unfit to own them (assuming they haven't broken any laws).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on August 06, 2019, 04:29:27 PM
Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

Automatic weapons and silencers are used very infrequently in crimes. The machine gun act of 1986 plays a part in this.

Also assault rifles made before 1986 are not banned if they have the paper work.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on August 06, 2019, 04:34:11 PM
.
Not one of those is an assault rifle.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 06, 2019, 04:40:25 PM
Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

Automatic weapons and silencers are used very infrequently in crimes. The machine gun act of 1986 plays a part in this.

Also assault rifles made before 1986 are not banned if they have the paper work.

If the current system for acquiring small arms followed the same steps as when you try to get an automatic weapon before 1986, I think that would help alot.

However, as junker said, I can't think of a good system for keeping nuts away from guns. There are some things I can think of, but no system is perfect and people will fall between the cracks or buy them illegally.

I wouldn't feel bad about making it illegal to sell guns privately or passing them.

Also, as scg said, there are rednecks and other people who would be quite dangerous. I am sure she knows some in Florida first hand as I do in Texas.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on August 06, 2019, 05:23:47 PM
Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.
Yes, that's why we should do nothing. So as not to piss off the gangs.

Just saying, it would be kind of hard to confiscate guns from them.

You don't confiscate guns from the gangs. You give a gun surrender period with a buy back scheme to all citizens. Gang members interact with Police all the time, be it on the street or during raids.

You persuade the gang members to voluntarily surrender them or alternatively be charged with an offence and go to Court and then jail time.

They will eventually get the message. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 06, 2019, 09:26:38 PM
Mass shooters are usually not mentally ill.  From the ones that survive anyway.

Hateful, sure, but not mentally ill.  So no amount of mental health is going to fix that.

There is only one fix: destroy America.  Wipe out the culture.  Only then can it be rebuilt and maybe not full of hate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 06, 2019, 11:20:16 PM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 06, 2019, 11:38:42 PM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on August 06, 2019, 11:48:49 PM
There are 327.2 million people in America. Be it due to genes or environment or a mixture of both, there's gonna be at least one or two bad apples out of 327.2 million.

America is great! I love America! Just make it harder for the bad apples to get their hands on semi-automatics.

Just watch. While the issue is being debated, this time next week or the week after, there will likely be another mass shooting. More blood on the street or the shopping mall. More innocent lives lost to a semi-automatic, through domestic terrorism.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 07, 2019, 12:21:11 AM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 07, 2019, 01:43:13 AM
There are 327.2 million people in America. Be it due to genes or environment or a mixture of both, there's gonna be at least one or two bad apples out of 327.2 million.

America is great! I love America! Just make it harder for the bad apples to get their hands on semi-automatics.

Just watch. While the issue is being debated, this time next week or the week after, there will likely be another mass shooting. More blood on the street or the shopping mall. More innocent lives lost to a semi-automatic, through domestic terrorism.

A few?  So many.  Too many who don't even realize it.  Not all will kill, but Americans are taught we are the best.  We are above all others.  We've always believed this.  From the moment the first settlers landed, we've believe it.  We are the heroes.  The police.  The leader of the free world.  The last Super Power.  And those who are not us.  Who dare to try and join our dream.... They are resources for use.  They are not us.

This is America.  And God himself has blessed us.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 03:01:47 AM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Fuck off with the destroy American nonsense.

.000000925 percent of people are likely to die by mass shooting on the worse year in the states. Take away guns, those same amount of people will die by other weapons or by hand

Stupid
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 03:04:28 AM
Also, what the fuck do black people have to do with this. One of the recent shootings had Mexicans on the agenda.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 07, 2019, 04:28:21 AM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Fuck off with the destroy American nonsense.

.000000925 percent of people are likely to die by mass shooting on the worse year in the states. Take away guns, those same amount of people will die by other weapons or by hand

Stupid

Also, what the fuck do black people have to do with this. One of the recent shootings had Mexicans on the agenda.

Its hate.  Anger.  Arrogance.  Traits we have not been able to remove from American culture.  Traits we promote, even.  My point was that if we can't stop the hatred of blacks after over 100 years, what hope do we have of any other hatred?

American society is a lost cause.  Doomed to infighting and hatred until it implodes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on August 07, 2019, 04:58:08 AM
I heard one American pollie in his condemnation of the attacks saying how 'Un-American' it was

I was thinking 'no you bozo - this IS American! And that is the frigging problem! It's not even a surprise anymore. There will be another one next week. And there will be more murders caused by guns in the meantime as you yanks pull out and fire loaded guns at each other as a means of conflict resolution.

Greatest country on the Earth my arse!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on August 07, 2019, 05:37:00 AM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.

No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on August 07, 2019, 08:12:13 AM
There is only one fix: destroy America.  Wipe out the culture.  Only then can it be rebuilt and maybe not full of hate.

Finally, a sensible solution we can all support.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 07, 2019, 08:39:32 AM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Oh we're not so bad once you get to know us.

Don't genocide us bro! We have Disneyland and barbeques!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 09:16:09 AM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Oh we're not so bad once you get to know us.

Don't genocide us bro! We have Disneyland and barbeques!
Too late now. Resistance is futile. Your cats shall be turned into gyros for our benefit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 09:17:04 AM
There is only one fix: destroy America.  Wipe out the culture.  Only then can it be rebuilt and maybe not full of hate.

Finally, a sensible solution we can all support.
Make the republicans compromise with that instead.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 07, 2019, 09:59:32 AM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Oh we're not so bad once you get to know us.

Don't genocide us bro! We have Disneyland and barbeques!
There are several series on Netflix I'd like to get to the end of, so there is that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 10:08:39 AM
I can't believe how many people here are on bored with "destroying America", especially some people that actually live here.

What a bunch of horse cock, but we are the ones that need help..... But it's ok being good with destroying an entire country.

The reason....we have a few nuts out of the 300 plus million people. Well every country has nuts.

Also, the high majority of the population is not racist despite what mainstream media says.

So, I say this with the most conviction I can.

Fuck off
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on August 07, 2019, 10:23:23 AM
The fact that you took it literally is poetic, in a way
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 07, 2019, 10:34:22 AM
DON'T TREAD ON ME!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 10:39:08 AM
I can't believe how many people here are on bored with "destroying America", especially some people that actually live here.
But that's the issue, if we don't destroy the people there why would we want to destroy it silly? BTW I am not at all bored with destroying America, I find it fascinating.

Quote
The reason....we have a few nuts out of the 300 plus million people. Well every country has nuts.
Depends on the type of nut. But we mostly have olives.

Quote
Also, the high majority of the population is not racist despite what mainstream media says.

Fine, we'll just repatriate the stoners then.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 10:47:57 AM
DON'T TREAD ON ME!
Sorry, didn't mean to, it won't happen again.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 10:53:09 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61MtBT9XDdL._SL1500_.jpg)

No step plz.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 07, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
Holy cow...

1. I am serious.
2. I am not saying "Kill everyone".  The CULTURE is the problem.  Best fix is to be taken over by another country.  In a few decades when you get free, you're culture will be no longer American.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 11:00:21 AM
Best fix is to be taken over by another country. 
Hit me up if you want assistance with that, shooting all these missiles into the sea is getting boring. We'll teach Americans the eternal truth of Juche together.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on August 07, 2019, 12:36:51 PM
Does america have oil?

If yes, it could invade itself and bring some democracy to itself!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 07, 2019, 01:21:16 PM
Does america have oil?

If yes, it could invade itself and bring some democracy to itself!

It was tried.  But the president was a "fucking moron" so invading was impossible.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 01:29:00 PM
The fact that you took it literally is poetic, in a way

Obviously I know it was a figurative statement.

I guess I am the only one here who sees a problem with it.

Wow
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 07, 2019, 01:33:42 PM
If it wasn't a joke other people probably would have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
If it wasn't a joke other people probably would have a problem with it.
What do you mean a joke? I'm out here preparing my ICBMs and now you're "joking"? Can't trust Americans for anything. All the more reason to destroy America.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 01:53:12 PM
If it wasn't a joke other people probably would have a problem with it.

He was obviously not joking.


There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Fuck off with the destroy American nonsense.

.000000925 percent of people are likely to die by mass shooting on the worse year in the states. Take away guns, those same amount of people will die by other weapons or by hand

Stupid

Also, what the fuck do black people have to do with this. One of the recent shootings had Mexicans on the agenda.

Its hate.  Anger.  Arrogance.  Traits we have not been able to remove from American culture.  Traits we promote, even.  My point was that if we can't stop the hatred of blacks after over 100 years, what hope do we have of any other hatred?

American society is a lost cause.  Doomed to infighting and hatred until it implodes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 07, 2019, 01:53:17 PM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.

No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.

My .22 rifle is semiautomatic.
A revolver is semiautomatic.

Hell, a knife is semiautomatic.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 01:54:32 PM
It even spawned shifter to post a hate filled message towards the US too.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 01:56:50 PM
It even spawned shifter to post a hate filled message towards the US too.
Yes, we're forming a party to destroy Amerikkka and install Intikam as its Grand Ayatollah.

WE THANK. ALLAH. FOR HEZ-BOL-LAH!
WE THANK. ALLAH. FOR HEZ-BOL-LAH!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 02:00:46 PM
Shut up pez, grown ups are talking here. Go back to the kids table
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 07, 2019, 02:03:08 PM
How about we compromise. Pez, you can take over California and make it a Pez nation and leave to rest of the USA to it's own devices.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 02:07:44 PM
How about we compromise. Pez, you can take over California and make it a Pez nation and leave to rest of the USA to it's own devices.

I can concur with this. Though I think only the coastal cities would think of taking him. About the only areas in California dumb enough
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 07, 2019, 02:10:28 PM
How about we compromise. Pez, you can take over California and make it a Pez nation and leave to rest of the USA to it's own devices.

I can concur with this. Though I think only the coastal cities would think of taking him. About the only areas in California dumb enough

California is almost it's own country anyways.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 02:11:00 PM
Shut up pez, grown ups are talking here. Go back to the kids table
Sorry, tables are also banned. You will rid yourselves of these extravagancies and eat on the floor like proper traditional Muslims.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 02:11:58 PM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.

No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.

My .22 rifle is semiautomatic.
A revolver is semiautomatic.

Hell, a knife is semiautomatic.
Damn, where did you get that knife?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 07, 2019, 02:15:46 PM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.



No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.

My .22 rifle is semiautomatic.
A revolver is semiautomatic.

Hell, a knife is semiautomatic.
Damn, where did you get that knife?

Just like a handgun with every trigger pull fires a round, every trigger pull of the knife(a stab) fires a stab ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 02:16:53 PM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.



No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.

My .22 rifle is semiautomatic.
A revolver is semiautomatic.

Hell, a knife is semiautomatic.
Damn, where did you get that knife?

Just like a handgun with every trigger pull fires a round, every trigger pull of the knife(a stab) fires a stab ;)
Your knife has a trigger? Wild.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 07, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.



No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.

My .22 rifle is semiautomatic.
A revolver is semiautomatic.

Hell, a knife is semiautomatic.
Damn, where did you get that knife?

Just like a handgun with every trigger pull fires a round, every trigger pull of the knife(a stab) fires a stab ;)
Your knife has a trigger? Wild.

Yes, your hand/arm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 07, 2019, 02:19:52 PM

Your knife has a trigger?

God bless America!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 02:25:23 PM
Yes, your hand/arm.
Nonsense, my hand is right here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 07, 2019, 02:27:42 PM

Your knife has a trigger?

God bless America!!!
*Allah bless Ameristan. Gotta start getting used to the new regime early on.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 07, 2019, 04:24:29 PM
Yes, your hand/arm.
Nonsense, my hand is right here.

Gripping your "I hate Trump" boner.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 08:00:35 AM


Bernie on JRE talking about mass shootings and mental health.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 09:55:30 AM


Bernie on JRE talking about mass shootings and mental health.
Sanders went on JRE? Interesting, I didn't fully expect it tbh. Clever move though.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
A lot of people think Joe Rogan is right wing, or alt right, but he's not. Most of the political opinions he has are on the left (the US left, not you know, the left left).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Denspressure on August 08, 2019, 10:16:30 AM
If a ban would allow the state police to remove assault weapons from owners, a lot of people are going to die.
I do not think such a ban is possible.

Stop the selling of such weapons, sure. But what about inheritance, gifts, what about the guns already there?

Not much will change, too many guns already that owners sure as hell will not give up without a civil war.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 08, 2019, 10:16:35 AM


Bernie on JRE talking about mass shootings and mental health.
Sanders went on JRE? Interesting, I didn't fully expect it tbh. Clever move though.

I was glad to see him talk for more than 5 minutes. Still though by Joe Rogan standards this is a short interview. I guess he's pretty busy with the campaign.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 08, 2019, 10:20:26 AM
I saw where Bernie said if he becomes president and finds out anything about UFOs and aliens he's tell the public.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 10:52:57 AM
A lot of people think Joe Rogan is right wing, or alt right, but he's not. Most of the political opinions he has are on the left (the US left, not you know, the left left).
They think that because almost all the (more political) guests he ever has on and the people he hangs out with are right wing, and also his style is super non confrontational so he usually just nods along with almost everything they say. And it is not that no leftist people have tried. Except for Cornel West, but he's the nicest person, only a complete psychopath would reject him.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 11:17:10 AM


He's talking about all that in this video (I think it just came out today).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 11:24:32 AM
I can't watch videos right now, and for a long time, I'm on mobile data, what did he say?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 08, 2019, 12:17:16 PM
I saw where Bernie said if he becomes president and finds out anything about UFOs and aliens he's tell the public.

He shouldn't have done that. If he really wanted to, he should have stayed quiet and acted like he would play ball. Then if there was anything, declassify it and tell the public.

That is what JFK did (well with other things, not ufo stuff).

A lot of people think Joe Rogan is right wing, or alt right, but he's not. Most of the political opinions he has are on the left (the US left, not you know, the left left).

He always struck me as pretty center with a slight lean to the right. It's a nice change from most people in his profession. Even those who are obviously out there, he at least gives them a fair chance to speak and present their conversation. He also doesn't attack them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 12:23:41 PM
I can't watch videos right now, and for a long time, I'm on mobile data, what did he say?

He talks about how vicious some of the comments on his Bernie podcast were and wondered how we got this bad, and she talked about how we see people with different opinions as the enemy now. Then he talked a bit about having Gavin McInnes on because he was the cofounder of Vice, but now people think he (Joe) is alt right because of it. There was some other stuff, it's a good clip.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 01:03:32 PM

He talks about how vicious some of the comments on his Bernie podcast were and wondered how we got this bad, and she talked about how we see people with different opinions as the enemy now.
There is opinions and then there is opinions. Honestly there are some opinions where it's just fucked up if you don't consider the people who hold them enemies. I understand why people are angry at Joe Rogan for his behavior, if he keeps platforming these people and just nods along at everything they say while very rarely platforming people opposite to them (thus discrediting the defense that he just likes to hear all opinions or whatever) then he's fucked up. I don't think he's alt right but I do think he's pretty dumb, and he should be more responsible given his viewership.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 08, 2019, 01:13:44 PM

He talks about how vicious some of the comments on his Bernie podcast were and wondered how we got this bad, and she talked about how we see people with different opinions as the enemy now.
There is opinions and then there is opinions. Honestly there are some opinions where it's just fucked up if you don't consider the people who hold them enemies. I understand why people are angry at Joe Rogan for his behavior, if he keeps platforming these people and just nods along at everything they say while very rarely platforming people opposite to them (thus discrediting the defense that he just likes to hear all opinions or whatever) then he's fucked up. I don't think he's alt right but I do think he's pretty dumb, and he should be more responsible given his viewership.

I disagree. Joe Rogan is not Larry King. He once warned his audience that he's kind of a moron and people shouldn't consider him a thought leader.  He interviews a wide range of people including some very weird conspiracy theorists.

Which is why I keep asking john davis to reach out to do an interview. I'm sure he'd love to talk to a flat earther.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 01:16:12 PM
Are you basing your judgement of him on what other people say, or on having watched his podcasts yourself? He doesn't just nod along with everything his guests say.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 01:41:33 PM
Are you basing your judgement of him on what other people say, or on having watched his podcasts yourself? He doesn't just nod along with everything his guests say.
I've seen some of them. I remember when he attacked Crowder for being negative towards weed lol. I also remember one time when he actually did sort of challenge JP on his weird enforced monogamy stance. Unfortunately most of the times he doesn't provide any serious challenge.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 01:43:22 PM

He talks about how vicious some of the comments on his Bernie podcast were and wondered how we got this bad, and she talked about how we see people with different opinions as the enemy now.
There is opinions and then there is opinions. Honestly there are some opinions where it's just fucked up if you don't consider the people who hold them enemies. I understand why people are angry at Joe Rogan for his behavior, if he keeps platforming these people and just nods along at everything they say while very rarely platforming people opposite to them (thus discrediting the defense that he just likes to hear all opinions or whatever) then he's fucked up. I don't think he's alt right but I do think he's pretty dumb, and he should be more responsible given his viewership.

I disagree. Joe Rogan is not Larry King. He once warned his audience that he's kind of a moron and people shouldn't consider him a thought leader.  He interviews a wide range of people including some very weird conspiracy theorists.

Which is why I keep asking john davis to reach out to do an interview. I'm sure he'd love to talk to a flat earther.
He's not Larry King but the people he interviews aren't that "diverse" usually, when it comes to politics. Recently he's kiiiinda improved, but still...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 01:51:05 PM
I mean, I don't think he is selectively non confrontational, he is like that with everyone. It's just that it doesn't help.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 01:52:26 PM
Most of the people he has on are his comedian friends, and they talk about sports. I would not be surprised if he tries to get more "diverse" people on but they are too snowflaky to come on the show.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 02:02:31 PM
Most of the people he has on are his comedian friends, and they talk about sports. I would not be surprised if he tries to get more "diverse" people on but they are too snowflaky to come on the show.
I mentioned earlier that I know leftists who have said they tried to get there but were ignored or rejected. It's not because they don't want to get up there, it's because he doesn't accept them, probably because it will piss off a big part of his fanbase, which is largely of a specific political orientation. I don't remember who all of them were. I remember for sure the hosts of Chapo Trap House tried to get one of them on JRE, not sure how it ended up exactly but it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 08, 2019, 02:43:34 PM
We're being invaded by spam bots.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 08, 2019, 02:55:00 PM
I could only kill two.   ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 08, 2019, 02:55:57 PM
I could only kill two.   ::)

Two short of a mass bot murder.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 08, 2019, 03:11:53 PM
I could only kill two.   ::)
I could kill 30-50 feral bots in 3-5 minutes if you made me a mod.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 08, 2019, 03:18:06 PM
I could only kill two.   ::)
I could kill 30-50 feral bots in 3-5 minutes if you made me a mod.

The rules clearly state no Greeks allowed as mods.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 08, 2019, 03:45:04 PM
I could only kill two.   ::)
I could kill 30-50 feral bots in 3-5 minutes if you made me a mod.

So you could do a little or a lot in a random amount of time?

You are a Super Hero.   ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 08, 2019, 03:50:30 PM
Most of the people he has on are his comedian friends, and they talk about sports. I would not be surprised if he tries to get more "diverse" people on but they are too snowflaky to come on the show.
I mentioned earlier that I know leftists who have said they tried to get there but were ignored or rejected. It's not because they don't want to get up there, it's because he doesn't accept them, probably because it will piss off a big part of his fanbase, which is largely of a specific political orientation. I don't remember who all of them were. I remember for sure the hosts of Chapo Trap House tried to get one of them on JRE, not sure how it ended up exactly but it didn't happen.

He's had lefties on before, but maybe he doesn't know what tf Chapo Trap House is. I'm sure they'd love to get on JRE for exposure, but do they have anything interesting to say?

Oh, lol https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/chapo-trap-house-subreddit-quarantine/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 08, 2019, 04:01:52 PM
I could only kill two.   ::)
I could kill 30-50 feral bots in 3-5 minutes if you made me a mod.

The rules clearly state no Greeks allowed as mods.

I believe pez is officially a Macedonian now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on August 08, 2019, 10:29:39 PM
https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html

I feel like he was being stupid and just trying to open carry.

The media isn’t helping though.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 08, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
Interesting, I saw a list of all the mass shooters (shooting 4 or more people) and out of them it was surprising white men were the minority.

There was even 5 women on it which really surprised me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Apokalypt on August 09, 2019, 01:04:31 AM
Interesting, I saw a list of all the mass shooters (shooting 4 or more people) and out of them it was surprising white men were the minority.

There was even 5 women on it which really surprised me.

Interesting, where is your list? I found this list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/edit#gid=0 and from 114 Mass Shooting incidents there were 46 non-whites (Asian, Black, Latino, Native American, Others)....so the majority was white.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 02:08:32 AM
I could only kill two.   ::)
I could kill 30-50 feral bots in 3-5 minutes if you made me a mod.

So you could do a little or a lot in a random amount of time?

You are a Super Hero.   ;D
It's a reference to this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2019/8/6/20756162/30-to-50-feral-hogs-meme-assault-weapons-guns-kids
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 09, 2019, 07:01:46 AM
I could only kill two.   ::)
I could kill 30-50 feral bots in 3-5 minutes if you made me a mod.

So you could do a little or a lot in a random amount of time?

You are a Super Hero.   ;D
It's a reference to this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2019/8/6/20756162/30-to-50-feral-hogs-meme-assault-weapons-guns-kids

Good god they went deep with that one.

Honestly I'm seeing a case for more firepower not less. I think I need a trebuchet to fight all those wild hogs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 07:33:17 AM
Interesting, I saw a list of all the mass shooters (shooting 4 or more people) and out of them it was surprising white men were the minority.

There was even 5 women on it which really surprised me.

Interesting, where is your list? I found this list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/edit#gid=0 and from 114 Mass Shooting incidents there were 46 non-whites (Asian, Black, Latino, Native American, Others)....so the majority was white.

There was an article I read the other day, published by a conservative think tank, that makes this claim (that white men are the minority). I can't remember the name of the think tank... okay I just searched through my browser history and found the article https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274538/51-mass-shooters-2019-were-black-only-29-were-daniel-greenfield  Basically "gang shootings" are not reported by the media as "mass shootings" even when one shooter kills more than 4 people. (I did not fact check this article, and I'm not claiming it is accurate or inaccurate)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 09, 2019, 07:43:43 AM
Seems like it could be plausible.  Gang wars and such.  Don't know if gang wars are still a thing.

Although one could argue that a gang war falls under a different category of violence than an attack on a bunch of random people that don't have anything to do with the attacker.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 07:59:56 AM
Seems like it could be plausible.  Gang wars and such.  Don't know if gang wars are still a thing.

Although one could argue that a gang war falls under a different category of violence than an attack on a bunch of random people that don't have anything to do with the attacker.
It is a much different phenomenon. Very few white people are in gangs, but so far I haven't heard of a single school shooter/mall shooter who wasn't a white dude. Is it really a "mass shooting" if there are specific designated targets in some alley like gang shootouts?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 08:13:35 AM
Yes, I agree it's a different phenomenon. Gang shootings have a target, even though they kill bystanders too. Mass shooters are usually more indiscriminate in their victims, like the guy who shot up the concert goers in Vegas. Just spraying bullets into a crowd. Of course this isn't always true for all the shootings. The El Paso shooter wanted to kill Mexicans and went somewhere he could find Mexicans.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 08:29:38 AM
Yes, I agree it's a different phenomenon. Gang shootings have a target, even though they kill bystanders too. Mass shooters are usually more indiscriminate in their victims, like the guy who shot up the concert goers in Vegas. Just spraying bullets into a crowd. Of course this isn't always true for all the shootings. The El Paso shooter wanted to kill Mexicans and went somewhere he could find Mexicans.
Sure, but it's still "Mexicans" in general, and not some other gang. That's what is so weird about these things. Though I think there is two kinds, the El Paso style people who classify more as terrorism than anything, and the incels who shoot up schools or malls for mysterious reasons.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 08:47:17 AM
Yeah, I agree. There's more than one type of mass shooter.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 12:20:00 PM
https://www.apnews.com/456c0154218a4d378e2fb36cd40b709d

Quote
EL PASO, Texas (AP) — The man accused of carrying out last weekend’s deadly mass shooting at Walmart in the Texas border city of El Paso confessed to officers while he was surrendering and later explained that he had been targeting Mexicans.

Patrick Crusius, 21, emerged with his hands up from a vehicle that was stopped at an intersection shortly after last Saturday’s attack and told officers, “I’m the shooter,” Detective Adrian Garcia said in an arrest warrant affidavit.

Crusius later waived his Miranda Rights and agreed to speak with detectives, telling them that he had driven to El Paso from the Dallas suburb of Allen — which is where he lived and is a more than 10-hour drive from El Paso — and that he was targeting Mexicans in the attack.

Twenty-two people were killed and about two dozen others were wounded in the attack. Many of the dead had Latino last names and eight of them were Mexican nationals.

Authorities believe Crusius posted a racist online screed that railed against an influx of Hispanics into the U.S. shortly before the attack.

Crusius has been charged with capital murder and is being held without bond. Federal prosecutors have said they are also considering hate-crime charges.

Hours after the attack in El Paso, a gunman killed nine people and wounded many others in Dayton, Ohio.

El Paso sits on the border with Mexico and has a large Latino population.

I don't think this one will be able to use mental illness as a defense.

   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 12:34:26 PM
https://www.apnews.com/456c0154218a4d378e2fb36cd40b709d

Quote
EL PASO, Texas (AP) — The man accused of carrying out last weekend’s deadly mass shooting at Walmart in the Texas border city of El Paso confessed to officers while he was surrendering and later explained that he had been targeting Mexicans.

Patrick Crusius, 21, emerged with his hands up from a vehicle that was stopped at an intersection shortly after last Saturday’s attack and told officers, “I’m the shooter,” Detective Adrian Garcia said in an arrest warrant affidavit.

Crusius later waived his Miranda Rights and agreed to speak with detectives, telling them that he had driven to El Paso from the Dallas suburb of Allen — which is where he lived and is a more than 10-hour drive from El Paso — and that he was targeting Mexicans in the attack.

Twenty-two people were killed and about two dozen others were wounded in the attack. Many of the dead had Latino last names and eight of them were Mexican nationals.

Authorities believe Crusius posted a racist online screed that railed against an influx of Hispanics into the U.S. shortly before the attack.

Crusius has been charged with capital murder and is being held without bond. Federal prosecutors have said they are also considering hate-crime charges.

Hours after the attack in El Paso, a gunman killed nine people and wounded many others in Dayton, Ohio.

El Paso sits on the border with Mexico and has a large Latino population.

I don't think this one will be able to use mental illness as a defense.

   

But how do you differentiate between someone just spouting racist nonsense with no harmful intentions from someone with harmful intentions? Especially when they have no prior police record or red flags(besides racism, of course)?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 12:54:57 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-universal-hunt-gun-control-hypocrisy

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 01:13:12 PM

But how do you differentiate between someone just spouting racist nonsense with no harmful intentions from someone with harmful intentions? Especially when they have no prior police record or red flags(besides racism, of course)?

That's the big question, isn't it? I think most of the shooters in recent years would have passed background checks (maybe not all of them, I can't remember them all). It's not illegal to be racist or spout racist crap.

I was talking about his defense, anyway. He plotted this, and new what he was doing. Nothing will stop him claiming mental illness, but it won't help him.


Hunt sounds like a shittier version of Hunger Games.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 01:34:58 PM

But how do you differentiate between someone just spouting racist nonsense with no harmful intentions from someone with harmful intentions? Especially when they have no prior police record or red flags(besides racism, of course)?

That's the big question, isn't it? I think most of the shooters in recent years would have passed background checks (maybe not all of them, I can't remember them all). It's not illegal to be racist or spout racist crap.

I was talking about his defense, anyway. He plotted this, and new what he was doing. Nothing will stop him claiming mental illness, but it won't help him.


Hunt sounds like a shittier version of Hunger Games.

Seems more to me a liberal version of The Most Dangerous Game.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 01:38:22 PM
Why do you think it's liberal?  lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 01:40:11 PM
Why do you think it's liberal?  lol

Leftist elites rounding up Trump supporters to hunt them in some sick game?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 01:57:53 PM
Oh, well I missed that it was Trump supporters they were hunting. The movie sounds even stupider.

On this same trend...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

Quote
Walmart pulls violent video game displays from its stores, but it will still sell guns

New York (CNN Business)Walmart is taking down displays of violent video games in its stores in the wake of recent shootings. But the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 02:04:04 PM
Oh, well I missed that it was Trump supporters they were hunting. The movie sounds even stupider.

On this same trend...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

Quote
Walmart pulls violent video game displays from its stores, but it will still sell guns

New York (CNN Business)Walmart is taking down displays of violent video games in its stores in the wake of recent shootings. But the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.

I've played violent video games my whole life and I have no inclination to go hurt, shoot, stab, or kill people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 09, 2019, 02:04:55 PM
Oh, well I missed that it was Trump supporters they were hunting. The movie sounds even stupider.

On this same trend...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

Quote
Walmart pulls violent video game displays from its stores, but it will still sell guns

New York (CNN Business)Walmart is taking down displays of violent video games in its stores in the wake of recent shootings. But the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.


They turned off the video ads because of the gun sounds.
They don't want customers to mistake the game noise for an actual shooting event.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
That was in the article I linked to.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 02:09:36 PM
Can you just imagine if some conservative movie maker(if one even exists) made a movie about Trump supporters rounding up Elizabeth Warren or AOC or Bernie supporters and hunting them like animals? It would be the end of the world.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 02:15:57 PM


Did you watch the trailer? I hadn't heard of this movie until you posted about it, but I just watched the trailer and they did not mention Trump supporters at all. Also, it looks like the ones being hunted are the bad asses of the movie and end up kicking ass and taking names.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 09, 2019, 02:16:35 PM
But you chose to quote this part . . .


Quote
Walmart pulls violent video game displays from its stores, but it will still sell guns

New York (CNN Business)Walmart is taking down displays of violent video games in its stores in the wake of recent shootings. But the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.


I chose to point out the actual reason.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 02:17:34 PM


Did you watch the trailer? I hadn't heard of this movie until you posted about it, but I just watched the trailer and they did not mention Trump supporters at all. Also, it looks like the ones being hunted are the bad asses of the movie and end up kicking ass and taking names.

That's because Trump supporters aren't confused as to which bathroom to use. ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 02:18:47 PM
I chose to quote the first few sentences and link to the article so people could read it themselves. Sorry it made your butt hurt.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 02:19:20 PM


Did you watch the trailer? I hadn't heard of this movie until you posted about it, but I just watched the trailer and they did not mention Trump supporters at all. Also, it looks like the ones being hunted are the bad asses of the movie and end up kicking ass and taking names.

That's because Trump supporters aren't confused as to which bathroom to use. ;)

What?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 02:20:01 PM


Did you watch the trailer? I hadn't heard of this movie until you posted about it, but I just watched the trailer and they did not mention Trump supporters at all. Also, it looks like the ones being hunted are the bad asses of the movie and end up kicking ass and taking names.

That's because Trump supporters aren't confused as to which bathroom to use. ;)

What?

Do you not know a joke when you see one?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 09, 2019, 02:20:47 PM
I chose to quote the first few sentences and link to the article so people could read it themselves. Sorry it made your butt hurt.

I'm all better now.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 02:47:50 PM
https://www.apnews.com/456c0154218a4d378e2fb36cd40b709d

Quote
EL PASO, Texas (AP) — The man accused of carrying out last weekend’s deadly mass shooting at Walmart in the Texas border city of El Paso confessed to officers while he was surrendering and later explained that he had been targeting Mexicans.

Patrick Crusius, 21, emerged with his hands up from a vehicle that was stopped at an intersection shortly after last Saturday’s attack and told officers, “I’m the shooter,” Detective Adrian Garcia said in an arrest warrant affidavit.

Crusius later waived his Miranda Rights and agreed to speak with detectives, telling them that he had driven to El Paso from the Dallas suburb of Allen — which is where he lived and is a more than 10-hour drive from El Paso — and that he was targeting Mexicans in the attack.

Twenty-two people were killed and about two dozen others were wounded in the attack. Many of the dead had Latino last names and eight of them were Mexican nationals.

Authorities believe Crusius posted a racist online screed that railed against an influx of Hispanics into the U.S. shortly before the attack.

Crusius has been charged with capital murder and is being held without bond. Federal prosecutors have said they are also considering hate-crime charges.

Hours after the attack in El Paso, a gunman killed nine people and wounded many others in Dayton, Ohio.

El Paso sits on the border with Mexico and has a large Latino population.

I don't think this one will be able to use mental illness as a defense.

   

But how do you differentiate between someone just spouting racist nonsense with no harmful intentions from someone with harmful intentions? Especially when they have no prior police record or red flags(besides racism, of course)?
What?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 02:56:07 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-universal-hunt-gun-control-hypocrisy

Thoughts?
I think it is extremely lame to attack someone for "hypocrisy" because they want gun control but also made a movie with guns. It's childish, it's like saying "oh, you're in favor of murder being against the law? Well, why did you make a movie about a serial killer then? HYPOCRITE!". Like, come on.

Also, I haven't watched it, but from reading the premise it sounds like something a republican with a victim complex would make tbh.

Edit: looks like I missed a big part of the discussion...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 02:59:02 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 09, 2019, 02:59:58 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.

Anyone that denies this is either an idiot, brainwashed or a liar.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 03:02:22 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.
Yes, the outrage by republicans would be nuclear. The internet would explode with Trump supporters whining about how it cultivates liberal victim culture and makes Trump supporters look evil.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 03:03:24 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.

Anyone that denies this is either an idiot, brainwashed or a liar.
Watch the trailer before spouting your typically uninformed opinion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 03:04:52 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.
Yes, the outrage by republicans would be nuclear. The internet would explode with Trump supporters whining about how it cultivates liberal victim culture and makes Trump supporters look evil.

Wrong, it's in the same vein as Obama deporting more illegal immigrants this far into his presidency(with many families being separated) than Trump has, but Trump is the bad guy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 09, 2019, 03:09:12 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.

Anyone that denies this is either an idiot, brainwashed or a liar.
Watch the trailer before spouting your typically uninformed opinion.

I was answering wesker's post and it seems like it is accurate from what you said as well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 03:09:43 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.
Yes, the outrage by republicans would be nuclear. The internet would explode with Trump supporters whining about how it cultivates liberal victim culture and makes Trump supporters look evil.

Wrong, it's in the same vein as Obama deporting more illegal immigrants this far into his presidency(with many families being separated) than Trump has, but Trump is the bad guy.
I don't understand how this has anything to do with the movie.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 03:13:24 PM
Lol watch the trailer to The Hunt. The trumpsters are CLEARLY the good guys.

It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. If the roles were reversed and Trumpsters were hunting Clintoners or Obamaers or Berniers the outrage would be nuclear.
Yes, the outrage by republicans would be nuclear. The internet would explode with Trump supporters whining about how it cultivates liberal victim culture and makes Trump supporters look evil.

Wrong, it's in the same vein as Obama deporting more illegal immigrants this far into his presidency(with many families being separated) than Trump has, but Trump is the bad guy.
I don't understand how this has anything to do with the movie.

The article was about the movie company pushing for gun control while simultaneously promoting a movie full of guns and shooting and killing.

But if the roles were reversed, as I said, the liberal outrage would be palpable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 09, 2019, 03:21:42 PM

The article was about the movie company pushing for gun control while simultaneously promoting a movie full of guns and shooting and killing.

But if the roles were reversed, as I said, the liberal outrage would be palpable.
First of all, as I said earlier, saying "durr you hypocrite because you makes movie with guns but you like gun control lol" is ridiculous, it would make everyone who's ever made a movie where anything illegal happens a hypocrite if they support that law. Made a movie where someone is killed but don't like murder? Hypocrite. Made a movie where someone is raped but don't want to be raped? Hypocrite. It's nonsense.

Second, the movie clearly makes the Trump supporters look like badass good guys. I don't understand why you think there would be outrage by liberals if the movie had reversed roels. If the movie had reversed laws it would be the republicans who would be mad at the movie for being liberal propaganda.

Also read the synopsis:

Quote

Twelve strangers wake up in a clearing. They don't know where they are, or how they got there. They don't know they've been chosen... for a very specific purpose... The Hunt. In the shadow of a dark internet conspiracy theory, a group of globalist elites gathers for the very first time at a remote Manor House to hunt humans for sport. But the elites' master plan is about to be derailed because one of the hunted, Crystal (Betty Gilpin, GLOW), knows The Hunters' game better than they do. She turns the tables on the killers, picking them off, one by one, as she makes her way toward the mysterious woman (two-time Oscar (R) winner Hilary Swank) at the center of it all.

So... The liberals who put them there are also killed...

Somehow republicans have managed to get upset over a movie that is borderline propaganda for their side, as far as someone can tell from the available material.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 09, 2019, 03:46:57 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-universal-hunt-gun-control-hypocrisy

Thoughts?

A bunch of liberals with firearms? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 09, 2019, 03:48:45 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-universal-hunt-gun-control-hypocrisy

Thoughts?

A bunch of liberals with firearms? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Must be how the Trumpers win, those libs can't shoot for shit ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 09, 2019, 03:55:30 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-universal-hunt-gun-control-hypocrisy

Thoughts?

A bunch of liberals with firearms? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Must be how the Trumpers win, those libs can't shoot for shit ;)

You don't even need guns to take them down.

Just a super sonic clapping device will win the war in a day.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 09, 2019, 04:01:52 PM


Did you watch the trailer? I hadn't heard of this movie until you posted about it, but I just watched the trailer and they did not mention Trump supporters at all. Also, it looks like the ones being hunted are the bad asses of the movie and end up kicking ass and taking names.

That's because Trump supporters aren't confused as to which bathroom to use. ;)

What?

Do you not know a joke when you see one?

I know a joke that doesn't make sense when I see one. lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 09, 2019, 04:04:03 PM

A bunch of liberals with firearms? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Right?


We are being bullied by dorks with milk shakes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 09, 2019, 10:25:19 PM
....

Did... Did I just read people reading into a movie trailer as political statements and complaining that the other side would be even madder than they are?

You all do realize that both sides would be equally mad at having a movie say "You're a bunch of evil people", right?  Stop trying to think you're somehow more virtuous by reason of it being "your side".

Its like when you complain at the other kid hit you harder.  Guess what?  Ya both hurt each other.  Stop arguing.

God....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 10, 2019, 12:26:33 AM
Also:

Trump Says He Supports 'Intelligent' Background Checks https://n.pr/2KF9le9

Anyone else find it disturbing that it took not kids, teens, or gay people at a club dying, but mexicans at a walmart for Republicans to talk about gun control?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 10, 2019, 12:52:50 AM

A bunch of liberals with firearms? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Right?


We are being bullied by dorks with milk shakes.
Well conservatives do seem to find milkshakes extremely threatening, so...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 10, 2019, 12:57:11 AM
Also:

Trump Says He Supports 'Intelligent' Background Checks https://n.pr/2KF9le9

Anyone else find it disturbing that it took not kids, teens, or gay people at a club dying, but mexicans at a walmart for Republicans to talk about gun control?

I suppose it's better late then never.

Though really, it won't make any difference as we are talking about such a small .000000 percentage of the population
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 10, 2019, 01:10:01 AM
Also:

Trump Says He Supports 'Intelligent' Background Checks https://n.pr/2KF9le9

Anyone else find it disturbing that it took not kids, teens, or gay people at a club dying, but mexicans at a walmart for Republicans to talk about gun control?

I suppose it's better late then never.

Though really, it won't make any difference as we are talking about such a small .000000 percentage of the population

Such a small percentage of muslims are terrorists.  Didn't stop anyone from hating them all or Trump wanting to ban travel from certain countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 10, 2019, 02:02:12 AM
Also:

Trump Says He Supports 'Intelligent' Background Checks https://n.pr/2KF9le9

Anyone else find it disturbing that it took not kids, teens, or gay people at a club dying, but mexicans at a walmart for Republicans to talk about gun control?

I suppose it's better late then never.

Though really, it won't make any difference as we are talking about such a small .000000 percentage of the population

Such a small percentage of muslims are terrorists.  Didn't stop anyone from hating them all or Trump wanting to ban travel from certain countries.

Actually stopped alot of people. That was just a stunt.

Though to be fair, there are tons of radicalized Muslims, just not that many make it to the states. However, other countries should definitely do something to protect themselves
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 10, 2019, 02:29:03 AM
Also:

Trump Says He Supports 'Intelligent' Background Checks https://n.pr/2KF9le9

Anyone else find it disturbing that it took not kids, teens, or gay people at a club dying, but mexicans at a walmart for Republicans to talk about gun control?

I suppose it's better late then never.

Though really, it won't make any difference as we are talking about such a small .000000 percentage of the population

Such a small percentage of muslims are terrorists.  Didn't stop anyone from hating them all or Trump wanting to ban travel from certain countries.

Actually stopped alot of people. That was just a stunt.

Though to be fair, there are tons of radicalized Muslims, just not that many make it to the states. However, other countries should definitely do something to protect themselves

Tons is still a small percentage.  0.01% is 1.8 million.  Its all relative.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 10, 2019, 05:16:48 AM
Also:

Trump Says He Supports 'Intelligent' Background Checks https://n.pr/2KF9le9

Anyone else find it disturbing that it took not kids, teens, or gay people at a club dying, but mexicans at a walmart for Republicans to talk about gun control?

I suppose it's better late then never.

Though really, it won't make any difference as we are talking about such a small .000000 percentage of the population

Such a small percentage of muslims are terrorists.  Didn't stop anyone from hating them all or Trump wanting to ban travel from certain countries.

Actually stopped alot of people. That was just a stunt.

Though to be fair, there are tons of radicalized Muslims, just not that many make it to the states. However, other countries should definitely do something to protect themselves
What "other countries"? What are you basing that on? Unless you're talking about the middle east, or various majority Muslim countries around the world,what you are saying is completely wrong.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 06:35:21 AM
....

Did... Did I just read people reading into a movie trailer as political statements and complaining that the other side would be even madder than they are?

You all do realize that both sides would be equally mad at having a movie say "You're a bunch of evil people", right?  Stop trying to think you're somehow more virtuous by reason of it being "your side".

Its like when you complain at the other kid hit you harder.  Guess what?  Ya both hurt each other.  Stop arguing.

God....

I'm not mad, bro.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 07:18:47 AM
You mad.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 07:26:01 AM
You mad.

I don't get mad, I get even ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 07:35:40 AM
Don't you think it's interesting that the big media channels try to keep us against each other? Like making it seem that the movie was liberals hunting Trump supporters, or CNN trying to make us mad at Walmart for taking their game displays down. They all try to make the "other side" seem hypocritical, and they all deceive us. The more outraged we are, the more we tune in.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 07:38:29 AM
Don't you think it's interesting that the big media channels try to keep us against each other? Like making it seem that the movie was liberals hunting Trump supporters, or CNN trying to make us mad at Walmart for taking their game displays down. They all try to make the "other side" seem hypocritical, and they all deceive us. The more outraged we are, the more we tune in.

But that movie IS liberals hunting Trump supporters. Even in the script they call the Trumpers "deplorables".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 10, 2019, 07:50:59 AM
Don't you think it's interesting that the big media channels try to keep us against each other? Like making it seem that the movie was liberals hunting Trump supporters, or CNN trying to make us mad at Walmart for taking their game displays down. They all try to make the "other side" seem hypocritical, and they all deceive us. The more outraged we are, the more we tune in.

But that movie IS liberals hunting Trump supporters. Even in the script they call the Trumpers "deplorables".
If that is the case, then trumpers are clearly the good guys so idk why y'all are whining.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 07:54:13 AM
Don't you think it's interesting that the big media channels try to keep us against each other? Like making it seem that the movie was liberals hunting Trump supporters, or CNN trying to make us mad at Walmart for taking their game displays down. They all try to make the "other side" seem hypocritical, and they all deceive us. The more outraged we are, the more we tune in.

But that movie IS liberals hunting Trump supporters. Even in the script they call the Trumpers "deplorables".
If that is the case, then trumpers are clearly the good guys so idk why y'all are whining.

I was just being facetious about that bit, because whichever side is hunting the other there would be outrage. The original point is that NBC Universal is promoting this movie(involving guns and killing) while simultaneously promoting gun control and the like. Especially after the two recent mass shootings and the movie's political undertones.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 08:04:20 AM
The only thing these media companies care about is profit.

I see all these conservative talking heads calling this movie a liberal fantasy, but if that was the case the liberals would defeat the deplorables. This seems much more like a conservative fantasy, where they are the oppressed, they rise up, and they overcome the evil liberals.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 08:05:37 AM
Thank the lord it isn't straights hunting gays, now that would cause some drama lol.

Or whites hunting blacks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 08:09:55 AM
True fact.

I just read a Fox article about the movie. Universal Pictures have paused the marketing campaign for the movie. Don't know how much good that's going to do, the right wing press are doing the marketing for them. Here we are, talking about a movie I never heard of until yesterday!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 08:12:40 AM
True fact.

I just read a Fox article about the movie. Universal Pictures have paused the marketing campaign for the movie. Don't know how much good that's going to do, the right wing press are doing the marketing for them. Here we are, talking about a movie I never heard of until yesterday!

I've only saw the commercial for it the other day. And that article came up on my homepage.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 10, 2019, 10:14:57 AM
Don't you think it's interesting that the big media channels try to keep us against each other? Like making it seem that the movie was liberals hunting Trump supporters, or CNN trying to make us mad at Walmart for taking their game displays down. They all try to make the "other side" seem hypocritical, and they all deceive us. The more outraged we are, the more we tune in.

But that movie IS liberals hunting Trump supporters. Even in the script they call the Trumpers "deplorables".
If that is the case, then trumpers are clearly the good guys so idk why y'all are whining.

I was just being facetious about that bit, because whichever side is hunting the other there would be outrage. The original point is that NBC Universal is promoting this movie(involving guns and killing) while simultaneously promoting gun control and the like. Especially after the two recent mass shootings and the movie's political undertones.

In fairness, business plans that are made months in advanced, do not stop because of mass shootings.  Also, you can make movies with guns while your company supports gun restrictions.  Its a movie, not a political statement.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 10, 2019, 10:21:19 AM
Hollywood(and liberals) want to infringe on the second amendment, so I wonder what would happen if Hollywood would not be allowed to have any guns in any of their movies? I wonder if they would accept their first amendment rights being infringed upon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
How can "Hollywood" infringe on the second amendment? It seems to me Hollywood loves guns. I think you are mixing up liberal actors with the corporations who hire them to act in movies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 10, 2019, 11:12:59 AM
Thank the lord it isn't straights hunting gays, now that would cause some drama lol.

Or whites hunting blacks.
Um. That was almost the exact premise of Get Out. I must have missed the outrage.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 10, 2019, 11:17:45 AM
Hollywood(and liberals) want to infringe on the second amendment, so I wonder what would happen if Hollywood would not be allowed to have any guns in any of their movies? I wonder if they would accept their first amendment rights being infringed upon.

LOL what? You know movies don't typically use live firearms, right? This is just going from bad to worse.

Also if someone is not allowed to detonate a real nuke for their movie, or kill someone, this is not an infringement on their first amendment rights, that's such a confused interpretation.

And please stop pretending like it is somehow hypocritical to have guns in your movie if you support gun control. Again, it's like saying having murder in your movie makes you a hypocrite if you think murder should be illegal. It's so silly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 12:02:52 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/456962-studio-says-it-will-cancel-release-of-the-hunt-after-backlash

Quote
Universal Pictures says it is canceling the release of "The Hunt" following intense backlash from conservatives and President Trump over the politically charged violence depicted in the purported satire.

"While Universal Pictures had already paused the marketing campaign for 'The Hunt,' after thoughtful consideration, the studio has decided to cancel our plans to release the film," a Universal Pictures spokesperson told The Hill in a statement.

"We stand by our filmmakers and will continue to distribute films in partnership with bold and visionary creators, like those associated with this satirical social thriller, but we understand that now is not the right time to release this film."

Alright, everyone can put away the smelling salts.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 10, 2019, 12:05:10 PM
This is fucking bizarre.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 10, 2019, 12:10:00 PM
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH! We are in the weirdest timeline.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 10, 2019, 12:29:42 PM
Hollywood(and liberals) want to infringe on the second amendment, so I wonder what would happen if Hollywood would not be allowed to have any guns in any of their movies? I wonder if they would accept their first amendment rights being infringed upon.

Yeah.... You're putting all actors (liberal and not) and directors (liberal and not) into one pot with producers and studios.  Now yes, I know Universal Studios is a person in the eyes of the law, but the Hollywood industry is not.  So please, don't lump everyone into an easy to hate category.  Its done enough already.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 10, 2019, 02:53:44 PM
Also:
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/749763786/rifle-carrying-man-arrested-after-causing-panic-at-walmart-in-missouri

Quote
"I wanted to know if that Walmart honored the 2nd Amendment," he is quoted as saying in a police statement. He also said he did not expect people in Missouri to react they way they did. "I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out."

So... apparently in Missouri, if you have a gun and walk into a walmart, people get scared.  Funny, huh?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 12, 2019, 12:56:36 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 12, 2019, 01:10:38 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Wooooow!  :o
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 12, 2019, 02:19:54 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 12, 2019, 03:32:00 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 12, 2019, 03:46:13 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 12, 2019, 03:55:07 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.

Until you get shot in the balls?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 12, 2019, 04:07:28 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.

Until you get shot in the balls?
Not even then.  I mean, its armed sure. But he's not gonna have a 3 hour shootout with cops or mow down 20 people in a minute.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 12, 2019, 04:13:18 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.

Until you get shot in the balls?
Not even then.  I mean, its armed sure. But he's not gonna have a 3 hour shootout with cops or mow down 20 people in a minute.

Your ignorance of items like clips or even speed-loaders is so quaint.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 12, 2019, 04:19:27 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.
Dude with 3 firearms and body armor isn't heavily armed? You can do a lot of damage in a closed space with a shotgun. Luckily there weren't many people inside when he got in.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on August 12, 2019, 04:20:55 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.
Dude with 3 weapons and body armor isn't heavily armed?

Not evidently while shopping in the San Diego Walmart.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 12, 2019, 04:23:50 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-mosque-shooting-attack-latest-gunman-worshipper-man-hero-far-right-terror-a9051986.html

Some incredible 65 year old badass took down some fascist nut who tried to shoot up a mosque in Norway who was armed to the teeth, and he didn't even have a weapon.

Not far from where I live. (Like hour drive)

And only pistols and shotguns.  So no ARs.

Right, pistols and shotguns don't hurt. It's the angry guns that attack people.

More like I wouldn't call it heavily armed.
Dude with 3 weapons and body armor isn't heavily armed?

Not evidently while shopping in the San Diego Walmart.
Seriously though, this bullshit is criminal, that idiot was trying to normalize people walking armed to the teeth in public, populated spaces without anyone caring, the only thing that this does is make the job of the next shooter much easier. Luckilly he failed. That is, if his account was true and he didn't actually want to shoot anyone before chickening out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 12, 2019, 04:29:30 AM
Then what do you all consider heavily armed vs armed?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 12, 2019, 05:43:20 AM
Then what do you all consider heavily armed vs armed?
If he had, say, a pistol and no body armor that's "armed".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 12, 2019, 05:46:40 AM
Then what do you all consider heavily armed vs armed?
If he had, say, a pistol and no body armor that's "armed".

So a pistol + body armor = heavily armed?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 12, 2019, 05:56:39 AM
Then what do you all consider heavily armed vs armed?

People who are more armed than me are heavily armed, those who are less armed than me consider me  heavily armed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 12, 2019, 02:13:01 PM
Then what do you all consider heavily armed vs armed?
If he had, say, a pistol and no body armor that's "armed".

So a pistol + body armor = heavily armed?
I don't understand why you are making such a big and complicated issue out of this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on August 12, 2019, 02:30:23 PM
Then what do you all consider heavily armed vs armed?

People who are more armed than me are heavily armed, those who are less armed than me consider me  heavily armed.
And I consider you a retard, independent of how armed you are!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 13, 2019, 12:18:15 PM
People who are more armed than me are heavily armed, those who are less armed than me consider me  heavily armed.

This...


On another note, dispute sent me this.



Shout out to the brave people that stopped him.

So does this mean Australia needs to ban assault knives next? France still hasn't banned cars.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 13, 2019, 12:27:57 PM
When somebody can stab 100 people in less than a minute then we can discuss the logic in banning knives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 13, 2019, 12:35:23 PM
When somebody can stab 100 people in less than a minute then we can discuss the logic in banning knives.

How many people would be have stabbed if the brave men didn't stop him?

#goodguywithacrate
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 13, 2019, 02:43:00 PM
So does this mean Australia needs to ban assault knives next?
Yeah, as soon as all the world's armies decide that knives are more effective at killing people than guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on August 13, 2019, 04:09:55 PM
When somebody can stab 100 people in less than a minute then we can discuss the logic in banning knives.
If you can stab 30-50 feral hogs in 3-5 minutes then who needs guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 14, 2019, 01:28:46 AM
Quote from: Some reactionary
So does this mean Australia needs to ban assault knives next? France still hasn't banned cars.

This is the worst type of deflection and frankly so badly argued you’d think he was trolling if you hadn’t read some of the other stuff he puts. Let’s walk you through it.

There are countless objects in and around your house that a maniac could kill someone with (think cluedo), candlesticks don’t kill people, colonel Mustard kills people, however what the colonel couldn’t do is take out lots of people with his candlestick from a hotel window, or indeed prevent the heroes armed with chairs and crates from overpowering him by mowing them down at a distance, knives and candlesticks are not designed for that, guns, especially semiautomatics, are, and serve no other purpose having been designed to kill, not hold candles or carve meat.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 14, 2019, 10:59:12 AM
To me this is all just damage mitigation. If the same mindset we used to reduce drunk driving deaths were used to reduce firearm deaths I think we'd see a lot of progress.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 14, 2019, 11:16:26 AM
To me this is all just damage mitigation. If the same mindset we used to reduce drunk driving deaths were used to reduce firearm deaths I think we'd see a lot of progress.

Falling short of repealing the second amendment, what can we do to stop gun violence? Stronger background checks could help, although we see half-assed checks now. Limiting magazine size could also help. If someone had an AR-15 with multiple magazines instead of one large drum, the reload time would give people time to run and time for the officers to neutralize the person. Banning "assault" type weapons. It seems that everyone has their own definition of what an assault weapon is, so until we decide what constitutes an assault-type weapon, that if left on the back burner.

We also need to get back to teaching our kids(and adults) to respect the sanctity of life.

Maybe a crackdown on gun dealers who don't follow the law.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 14, 2019, 12:05:04 PM
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-gun-stolen-sex-orgy-masked-masks-20190808-bdkr4kswaffnxl2gccwcuiphxy-story.html
Quote
Who was that masked man?

Cops in eastern Florida are not optimistic about finding a handgun that was stolen during a three-day orgy in Volusia County, where the swingers in attendance all wore masks.

"We’re probably not going to solve this one,” Volusia County Sgt. Todd Smith said Thursday, according to the Daytona Beach News Journal. He also said identifying the thief by DNA "is not going to be an option.”

Roughly 20 people attended last weekend’s sex party, where a 9-mm. Glock went missing from a bed stand in the master bedroom at some point.

Complicating matters further, participants at the sordid soiree were encouraged to use aliases. The unidentified host, who reported his pistol missing, only knew a handful of people who passed through his home during the erotic event, according to the report.

The sheriff’s office said the party had been promoted on social media. They also claim gun theft in the area is on the rise and that 81 firearms have been swiped from unlocked cars so far this year.

We definitely need to crack down on gun stealing anonymous orgy participants.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 14, 2019, 12:50:22 PM

I want to know where they concealed it, actually I don't.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 14, 2019, 04:47:49 PM
To me this is all just damage mitigation. If the same mindset we used to reduce drunk driving deaths were used to reduce firearm deaths I think we'd see a lot of progress.

Falling short of repealing the second amendment, what can we do to stop gun violence? Stronger background checks could help, although we see half-assed checks now. Limiting magazine size could also help. If someone had an AR-15 with multiple magazines instead of one large drum, the reload time would give people time to run and time for the officers to neutralize the person. Banning "assault" type weapons. It seems that everyone has their own definition of what an assault weapon is, so until we decide what constitutes an assault-type weapon, that if left on the back burner.

We also need to get back to teaching our kids(and adults) to respect the sanctity of life.

Maybe a crackdown on gun dealers who don't follow the law.

It comes down to a lot of little things, a lot of trial and error done by nerds staring at statistics and coming up with new things to try.  It's actually one of the things our government is good at.  The problem is we have this extremist organization, the NRA, which fights anything that remotely looks like gun control without exception.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 15, 2019, 01:23:52 AM
It is insane the amount of control that the NRA has.
 
After a CDC-funded study in the New England Journal of Medicine was published (1993), that found that firearms kept at home increased the risk of homicide by someone in the household, rather than offering protection, they (NRA) hijacked the system via Jay Dickey to prevent the CDC from doing any research on gun violence, at all.

So, to find out where the problems are and offer solutions is pretty much impossible as the gun sellers have stymied any inquiry by labelling it “anti-gun propaganda” and throwing millions of dollars in lobbying and political contributions (bribes) to keep it suppressed, while 90 odd Americans are killed by guns every day. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 15, 2019, 03:18:40 AM
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-gun-stolen-sex-orgy-masked-masks-20190808-bdkr4kswaffnxl2gccwcuiphxy-story.html
Quote
Who was that masked man?

Cops in eastern Florida are not optimistic about finding a handgun that was stolen during a three-day orgy in Volusia County, where the swingers in attendance all wore masks.

"We’re probably not going to solve this one,” Volusia County Sgt. Todd Smith said Thursday, according to the Daytona Beach News Journal. He also said identifying the thief by DNA "is not going to be an option.”

Roughly 20 people attended last weekend’s sex party, where a 9-mm. Glock went missing from a bed stand in the master bedroom at some point.

Complicating matters further, participants at the sordid soiree were encouraged to use aliases. The unidentified host, who reported his pistol missing, only knew a handful of people who passed through his home during the erotic event, according to the report.

The sheriff’s office said the party had been promoted on social media. They also claim gun theft in the area is on the rise and that 81 firearms have been swiped from unlocked cars so far this year.

We definitely need to crack down on gun stealing anonymous orgy participants.

"Sordid Soiree" would be a great band name.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on August 23, 2019, 03:29:03 PM
We got told after the time when some guy mowed down over 50 people enjoying a concert from a high rise building that 'its not the time to talk about gun control'

OK. It's been a while. Can we talk about it yet? Or do we still have to wait
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on August 23, 2019, 03:53:54 PM
We got told after the time when some guy mowed down over 50 people enjoying a concert from a high rise building that 'its not the time to talk about gun control'

OK. It's been a while. Can we talk about it yet? Or do we still have to wait
There was another mass shooting recently. Probably best to wait a little longer.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on August 23, 2019, 04:08:30 PM
We got told after the time when some guy mowed down over 50 people enjoying a concert from a high rise building that 'its not the time to talk about gun control'

OK. It's been a while. Can we talk about it yet? Or do we still have to wait
There was another mass shooting recently. Probably best to wait a little longer.

Oh okay  :'(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 31, 2019, 04:33:23 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/31/us/odessa-shootings.html

Quote
At Least 5 Dead and Up to 20 Injured in Shootings Near Odessa, Tex.

Officials said the attack started as a traffic stop.

HOUSTON — At least five people were killed and 21 others injured in shootings near the West Texas cities of Odessa and Midland on Saturday, as one or two gunmen in a hijacked postal van and a pickup truck opened fire on residents, motorists and shoppers, the authorities said.

The two attacks in the two cities terrified a region with a combined population of 263,000 at the start of Labor Day weekend. Police officers and state troopers tried to keep drivers off the highways.

Chief Michael Gerke of the Odessa Police Department said at a news conference on Saturday evening that the gunman, a white male in his mid-30s, was dead, and that three law enforcement were shot. He did not give a motive, but said that the attack began as a traffic stop.


Another one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 31, 2019, 05:10:51 PM
Texas is a pretty violent place it seems.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 31, 2019, 05:16:12 PM
Texas is a pretty violent place it seems.

Don't let this give you a bad impression of Texas.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on August 31, 2019, 05:40:27 PM
Domestic terrorism. Time to call this barbaric shit for what it is. Time for some propaganda. Let these people forever be branded and remembered as terrorists little different to the pieces of shit who shoot and blow themselves up in the Middle East.

This shooting shit is a cancer on America and so called 'leader' of the free world. You want to know freedom? Being able to go about your day and not get shot at.

A baby was shot in the face FFS. This is the 'cost' of the 2nd amendment which has been bastardized so much to suit your gun lobby NRA.

NRA = Enemy of America
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 31, 2019, 06:34:23 PM
Domestic terrorism. Time to call this barbaric shit for what it is. Time for some propaganda. Let these people forever be branded and remembered as terrorists little different to the pieces of shit who shoot and blow themselves up in the Middle East.

This shooting shit is a cancer on America and so called 'leader' of the free world. You want to know freedom? Being able to go about your day and not get shot at.

A baby was shot in the face FFS. This is the 'cost' of the 2nd amendment which has been bastardized so much to suit your gun lobby NRA.

NRA = Enemy of America

Ok....call them terrorist....great, I am fine with that, it's an accurate description.

Then what?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 31, 2019, 06:58:12 PM
To be fair we don't know much about this guys motive yet.  So its premature to call him a terrorist.

Also it looks like there was just one shooter in this incident.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 31, 2019, 07:04:11 PM
To be fair we don't know much about this guys motive yet.  So its premature to call him a terrorist.

Also it looks like there was just one shooter in this incident.

I think anytime someone mows down a bunch of people with bullets no matter the reason they should be considered a terrorist
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 31, 2019, 07:08:52 PM
To be fair we don't know much about this guys motive yet.  So its premature to call him a terrorist.

Also it looks like there was just one shooter in this incident.

I think anytime someone mows down a bunch of people with bullets no matter the reason they should be considered a terrorist

Sadly, no, they aren't.
A terrorist has a goal when they mow down people.  Some reason to make people afraid.
This is just a random ass killing. 


Also: I thought more guns = safer?  Where was the civillian with a gun to stop this?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 01, 2019, 12:10:47 AM
Terrorism was given a narrow definition that meant it could be applied to religious fanatics. But let's call a spade a spade. This loser wasn't out to give people warm fuzzy feelings.

You would think so guy like Trump obsessed about America being the greatest would see this issue alone makes America far from the envy from the rest of the world. Your kindergartners learn how to protect themselves from shooters. What does that ultimately teach them about their fellow man?  Your schools have high security, metal detectors etc and still not enough to protect kids from some incel that got rejected from his crush. Our kids actually get on with learning. And being kids.

Once you call these people terrorists, maybe that will get people to think how they want to be remembered? Or call the NRA out by association every time they want to block any move to curb this shit from taking place.

I can't write it all down but in the 1950s and before there was no such thing as EVERYONE having the right to a gun or 20+ etc (let alone military weapons). I believe the amendment was originally intended that local militias could have them. Your NRA hijacked it over time to what it is now and it has frankly made America far more dangerous.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on September 01, 2019, 12:44:58 AM
Just because you want to kill, doesn't make you a terrorist. 
If I kill 20 women one at a time, am I a terrorist or a serial killer?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on September 01, 2019, 01:10:58 AM
Just because you want to kill, doesn't make you a terrorist. 
If I kill 20 women one at a time, am I a terrorist or a serial killer?

The distinction I draw is that the terrorist intentions is not actually to kill random people.  That's just a means to an end.  Their intentions are to harm society in general for the purpose making a group fearful. 

Example 1:  The El Paso shooter.  Thought Mexicans were taking over so he shot a bunch of latinos to make that part of society afraid.  Terrorism.

Example 2:  Golden State Killer.  Just randomly killed and raped people for the yucks.  No intention of influencing society.  Not terrorism.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 01, 2019, 01:30:34 AM

Your kindergartners learn how to protect themselves from shooters.

When I was a young school kid we used to practice closing the curtains and hiding under our desks
to protect ourselves from Russian Nukes.

It sucks knowing we could be injured or killed at random.
Like car wrecks, plane crashes, lightning, you name it.

I don't think anyone is in favor of random murder.
Blaming the NRA is just voicing frustration. We are all frustrated.

Weapons have been a key defining component of human culture from the start.
That will never change. That genie will never go back into the bottle.
I have no idea why people blame the NRA instead of the broken mental healthcare system.


I am open to hearing original ideas that could actually help mitigate the problem.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on September 01, 2019, 01:39:36 AM

Your kindergartners learn how to protect themselves from shooters.

When I was a young school kid we used to practice closing the curtains and hiding under our desks
to protect ourselves from Russian Nukes.

It sucks knowing we could be injured or killed at random.
Like car wrecks, plane crashes, lightning, you name it.

I don't think anyone is in favor of random murder.
Blaming the NRA is just voicing frustration. We are all frustrated.

Weapons have been a key defining component of human culture from the start.
That will never change. That genie will never go back into the bottle.
I have no idea why people blame the NRA instead of the broken mental healthcare system.


I am open to hearing original ideas that could actually help mitigate the problem.

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

We blame the NRA because they hold alot of influence ($$$) in politics to prevent any change in gun laws that make it harder to get a gun.  Which is the point.

Guns don't kill people, people do.  Which is why we wanna stop people from getting guns.  Why make killing easier?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on September 01, 2019, 01:40:19 AM
Texas is a pretty violent place it seems.
There is an expression in Greek, which I guess exists because of all the old westerns set in Texas, which translates to something like "they made the place like Texas" or "Texas happened", or something like that, referring to something chaotic and often violent happening. Guess it's still accurate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 01, 2019, 01:49:13 AM

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

I would suggest that anyone who hates enough to perform random murder is mentally ill.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on September 01, 2019, 01:55:05 AM

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

I would suggest that anyone who hates enough to perform random murder is mentally ill.
Yes but you can't really fix that with better mental healthcare. You can fix a lot of things I guess but lots of these people would fly under the radar.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 01, 2019, 02:04:40 AM

We blame the NRA because they hold alot of influence ($$$) in politics to prevent any change in gun laws that make it harder to get a gun.

You do realize that the "NRA" is simply fellow citizens you happen to disagree with, right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on September 01, 2019, 02:39:42 AM

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

I would suggest that anyone who hates enough to perform random murder is mentally ill.

You'd be wrong.
That's like saying anyone who loves others unconditionally is mentally ill.
Hate is an emotion.  Its normal and therefore not a mental illness.



We blame the NRA because they hold alot of influence ($$$) in politics to prevent any change in gun laws that make it harder to get a gun.

You do realize that the "NRA" is simply fellow citizens you happen to disagree with, right?

Trump is a fellow citizen I happen to disagree with.  Doesn't make him any less of an asshole nor his actions any less damaging.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 01, 2019, 02:58:03 AM

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

I would suggest that anyone who hates enough to perform random murder is mentally ill.

You'd be wrong.
That's like saying anyone who loves others unconditionally is mentally ill.
Hate is an emotion.  Its normal and therefore not a mental illness.



We blame the NRA because they hold alot of influence ($$$) in politics to prevent any change in gun laws that make it harder to get a gun.

You do realize that the "NRA" is simply fellow citizens you happen to disagree with, right?

Trump is a fellow citizen I happen to disagree with.  Doesn't make him any less of an asshole nor his actions any less damaging.


I'm sayin', love or hate, if your emotions make you slaughter folks your head is fucked up.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on September 01, 2019, 03:03:12 AM

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

I would suggest that anyone who hates enough to perform random murder is mentally ill.

You'd be wrong.
That's like saying anyone who loves others unconditionally is mentally ill.
Hate is an emotion.  Its normal and therefore not a mental illness.



We blame the NRA because they hold alot of influence ($$$) in politics to prevent any change in gun laws that make it harder to get a gun.

You do realize that the "NRA" is simply fellow citizens you happen to disagree with, right?

Trump is a fellow citizen I happen to disagree with.  Doesn't make him any less of an asshole nor his actions any less damaging.


I'm sayin', love or hate, if your emotions make you slaughter folks your head is fucked up.
Nope.

I used to think so too but it doesn't.  They know what they're doing. They are of clear mind.  They just hate someone/feel threatened that murder is the only solution they have.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 01, 2019, 03:19:06 AM

Several of these shooters are not mentally ill.  They just hate.

I would suggest that anyone who hates enough to perform random murder is mentally ill.

You'd be wrong.
That's like saying anyone who loves others unconditionally is mentally ill.
Hate is an emotion.  Its normal and therefore not a mental illness.



We blame the NRA because they hold alot of influence ($$$) in politics to prevent any change in gun laws that make it harder to get a gun.

You do realize that the "NRA" is simply fellow citizens you happen to disagree with, right?

Trump is a fellow citizen I happen to disagree with.  Doesn't make him any less of an asshole nor his actions any less damaging.


I'm sayin', love or hate, if your emotions make you slaughter folks your head is fucked up.
Nope.

I used to think so too but it doesn't.  They know what they're doing. They are of clear mind.  They just hate someone/feel threatened that murder is the only solution they have.

OK, you had me goin' for a while.   ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 01, 2019, 04:06:12 AM
Texas is a pretty violent place it seems.
There is an expression in Greek, which I guess exists because of all the old westerns set in Texas, which translates to something like "they made the place like Texas" or "Texas happened", or something like that, referring to something chaotic and often violent happening. Guess it's still accurate.


I remember an expression.... 'Only in America!' It was used whenever something that absolutely boggled the mind in its WTF'ness that people would say it. People still do when it comes to these mass shootings that sadly happen several times a week. The Canuks north of the border also have private gun ownership. Why aren't they randomly killing everyone in sight?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 01, 2019, 08:10:48 AM
The NRA is a lobby group that represents gun manufacturers. Lobby groups are people! Yeah, they're people. They are people who make money by stirring up fear that the evil liberals are going to take guns away after a shooting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on September 01, 2019, 08:05:49 PM
Vox.com: Texas’ gun laws were loosened one day after shooter killed 7 in Odessa.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/1/20843797/texas-shooting-gun-laws-loosened-odessa-el-paso-greg-abbott

Finally someone takes some action.  The problem is that toddler didn't have a gun to defend herself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on September 02, 2019, 03:46:49 AM
Interesting polling from Quinnipiac   https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us08292019_uxqk93.pdf/

Looking at all the specific gun policy proposals that voters were asked about, support ranges from very
strong to split:
• 93 – 6 percent support for universal background checks;
• 82 – 16 percent support for requiring a license to purchase a gun;
• 80 – 15 percent support for a “red flag” law;
• 60 – 36 percent support for a ban on assault weapons;
• 46 – 49 percent on a mandatory buyback of assault weapons.
On gun licensing and both questions regarding assault weapons, there are huge gender gaps. This
includes a double digit gap on each question between white men and white women. In each instance, both
women and white women much more strongly support these three gun policies, including a bare majority of
support for the mandatory assault weapon buyback.
 A 54 percent majority of voters think that mental illness is a bigger cause of mass shootings than the
availability of guns, while 37 percent say gun availability is a bigger cause. But 54 percent of voters also think
that stricter gun laws would help to decrease the number of mass shootings in the United States, while 43
percent don’t think so. About four in ten voters are worried about being a victim of a mass shooting themselves


Almost 50% in favour of a buyback of assault weapons,  that's getting close to a tipping point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on September 02, 2019, 04:37:35 AM
Does anyone else get a laugh about gun nutters being trolled by people who vocally claim that AR stands for Assault Rifle,  and all the gun nutters go nuclear,  describing in great detail the history of the Armalite company and why those ignorant liberals know nothing.

Meanwhile the libs are ROTFL

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on September 02, 2019, 06:56:57 AM
I assumed AR meant Assault Rifle.  Huh...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on September 02, 2019, 08:32:40 AM
I thought it meant Angry Ranting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on September 02, 2019, 05:40:38 PM
I assumed AR meant Assault Rifle.  Huh...

Doh!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 03, 2019, 02:07:08 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/business/walmart-ends-handgun-ammo-sales/index.html

Quote
Walmart ends all handgun ammunition sales and asks customers not to carry guns into stores

New York (CNN Business)Walmart on Tuesday announced it will reduce its gun and ammunition sales, one month after more than 20 people were killed in a mass shooting at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas. Walmart also pressured Congress to enact gun safety measures.
The company, America's largest retailer, said it will stop selling handgun ammunition and "short-barrel rifle ammunition," such as the .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber, that can also be used on assault-style weapons after selling all of its current inventory. Walmart (WMT) will also stop selling handguns in Alaska, the only state where it still sells handguns. And Walmart will request that customers no longer openly carry guns into its 4,700 US stores, or its Sam's Club stores, in states that allow open carry.
"It's clear to us that the status quo is unacceptable," Walmart CEO Doug McMillon said in a memo to employees on Tuesday.
However, Walmart will continue to sell long barrel deer rifles and shotguns and much of the ammunition for those guns. The company sells guns in about 3,900 stores. Walmart will also continue to allow concealed carry by customers with permits in its stores.

McMillon said Walmart's changes were prompted by the El Paso, Texas, shooting, as well as recent mass shootings in Dayton, Ohio, and Midland and Odessa, Texas.
The measured steps announced Tuesday are the latest changes Walmart has made to its gun policies in recent years as mass shootings continue in America.
Walmart attempted again to balance customers who own guns and are "part of our customer base" with safety in stores, Dan Bartlett, Walmart executive vice president of corporate affairs, said on a call with reporters.
"We feel like we are striking a responsible balance between the interests of law-abiding citizens who are exercising their legal rights and the safety concerns of our associates and customers," he said.

This is a pretty big deal, I think. There will be a lot of pissed off gun nuts. I feel sorry for the workers in the stores.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 03, 2019, 02:25:15 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/business/walmart-ends-handgun-ammo-sales/index.html

Quote
Walmart ends all handgun ammunition sales and asks customers not to carry guns into stores

New York (CNN Business)Walmart on Tuesday announced it will reduce its gun and ammunition sales, one month after more than 20 people were killed in a mass shooting at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas. Walmart also pressured Congress to enact gun safety measures.
The company, America's largest retailer, said it will stop selling handgun ammunition and "short-barrel rifle ammunition," such as the .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber, that can also be used on assault-style weapons after selling all of its current inventory. Walmart (WMT) will also stop selling handguns in Alaska, the only state where it still sells handguns. And Walmart will request that customers no longer openly carry guns into its 4,700 US stores, or its Sam's Club stores, in states that allow open carry.
"It's clear to us that the status quo is unacceptable," Walmart CEO Doug McMillon said in a memo to employees on Tuesday.
However, Walmart will continue to sell long barrel deer rifles and shotguns and much of the ammunition for those guns. The company sells guns in about 3,900 stores. Walmart will also continue to allow concealed carry by customers with permits in its stores.

McMillon said Walmart's changes were prompted by the El Paso, Texas, shooting, as well as recent mass shootings in Dayton, Ohio, and Midland and Odessa, Texas.
The measured steps announced Tuesday are the latest changes Walmart has made to its gun policies in recent years as mass shootings continue in America.
Walmart attempted again to balance customers who own guns and are "part of our customer base" with safety in stores, Dan Bartlett, Walmart executive vice president of corporate affairs, said on a call with reporters.
"We feel like we are striking a responsible balance between the interests of law-abiding citizens who are exercising their legal rights and the safety concerns of our associates and customers," he said.

This is a pretty big deal, I think. There will be a lot of pissed off gun nuts. I feel sorry for the workers in the stores.

I was in a Walmart in China. No guns or ammunition were available for sale. No one cared and not a big deal.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on September 03, 2019, 03:13:13 PM
There's Walmart in China?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 03, 2019, 03:19:16 PM
There's Walmart in China?

Yep

https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g297452-d2050478-i242590368-Dalian_Olympic_Square-Dalian_Liaoning.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 03, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Not sure what that has to do with Walmarts in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 03, 2019, 04:02:02 PM
Not sure what that has to do with Walmarts in the US.

If China can have Walmarts without guns and everyones happy, the US should as well  8)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 03, 2019, 04:53:31 PM
Yeah, well China would have dealt with the NRA a long time ago. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/03/nra-slams-walmart-after-retailer-cuts-gun-and-ammo-sales.html

Quote
NRA slams Walmart for caving to ‘anti-gun elites’ after retailer ends handgun ammo sales

The National Rifle Association slammed retail giant Walmart on Tuesday after the company announced it would end sales of handgun ammunition in its stores.

“The strongest defense of freedom has always been our free market economy. It is shameful to see Walmart to succumb to the pressure of the anti-gun elites,” the influential gun rights group wrote in a statement.

“Lines at Walmart will soon be replaced by lines at other retailers who are more supportive of America’s fundamental freedoms,” the statement said.

The NRA, ran by multi millionaires, likes to pretend anyone who wants any kind of control are "elitists". Unfortunately there are lots of people in the US who believe this shit. I know people, I am fucking kin to people, who will not shop at Dick's Sporting Goods after they removed guns from their stores.

Also, we don't have a free market economy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 03, 2019, 05:06:10 PM
Yeah, well China would have dealt with the NRA a long time ago. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/03/nra-slams-walmart-after-retailer-cuts-gun-and-ammo-sales.html

Quote
NRA slams Walmart for caving to ‘anti-gun elites’ after retailer ends handgun ammo sales

The National Rifle Association slammed retail giant Walmart on Tuesday after the company announced it would end sales of handgun ammunition in its stores.

“The strongest defense of freedom has always been our free market economy. It is shameful to see Walmart to succumb to the pressure of the anti-gun elites,” the influential gun rights group wrote in a statement.

“Lines at Walmart will soon be replaced by lines at other retailers who are more supportive of America’s fundamental freedoms,” the statement said.

The NRA, ran by multi millionaires, likes to pretend anyone who wants any kind of control are "elitists". Unfortunately there are lots of people in the US who believe this shit. I know people, I am fucking kin to people, who will not shop at Dick's Sporting Goods after they removed guns from their stores.

Also, we don't have a free market economy.

I dont get it. There are far more guns than people. There is more ammunition in the US to kill everyone in the world several times over including any wildlife that would be legit hunted. What are people shooting at that requires them to need to continously buy rounds and rounds of ammunition and why do they need said ammunition at places like Walmart?

Nice to see that there are people such as yourself that are enlightened regarding the issue of guns in America

Nice of the NRA to call 'anti gun' people elite. The Antonym for elite (perhaps 'pro gun') are words like inferior, low class, poor etc. I guess that's what they think of their members. I guess people like that are easier to brain wash
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on September 03, 2019, 05:33:54 PM
Here's all you need to know about how corrupt the NRA leadership is. 

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/reports-show-nra-s-lavish-spending-on-luxuries-for-lapierre-66333253761

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 03, 2019, 05:34:24 PM
Also, Walmart will still sell guns and ammo, just not every kind of gun and ammo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 08, 2019, 02:41:06 PM
ADVICE FOR 'MURICANS!

Quote
“If you realise someone has a gun for protection, and they’re not expecting you — announce yourself when you enter the home, or even if you’re getting up to get a drink of water in the middle of the night,”

So children with parents that have guns for 'protection' need to somehow announce they are getting water in the middle of the night (perhaps go to the toilet too), without spooking the shit out of their parents should they wake up from the announcement a bit confused and groggy from their sleep. What kind of a screwed up living is this?

Came from this story
https://nypost.com/2019/09/08/mom-accidentally-shoots-daughter-after-she-surprises-her-at-home/

Not a mass shooting but because a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

Yep! Guns are sure keeping families safe!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on September 08, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 08, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

Was she told to not come home early?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 03:57:03 PM
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!

It wasn't that simple (I was just listening to them talk about it on the radio while coming home). She is a single mom that lives alone, she did not expect her daughter, it was at night, she was in bed, the daughter was sneaking around the house (I am sure with good intentions to surprise her mom) in the dark.

I mean it sucks, I am sure the mom feels terrible, but it was a bad move. I wouldn't be mad if I did that to even my best friend.

Also, the DA is announced it is not pressing charges after looking at the evidence.

One thing for sure, the daughter will definitely ring the doorbell next time lol. Thankfully it was just a flesh wound.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on September 09, 2019, 04:13:40 PM
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!

It wasn't that simple (I was just listening to them talk about it on the radio while coming home). She is a single mom that lives alone, she did not expect her daughter, it was at night, she was in bed, the daughter was sneaking around the house (I am sure with good intentions to surprise her mom) in the dark.

I mean it sucks, I am sure the mom feels terrible, but it was a bad move. I wouldn't be mad if I did that to even my best friend.

Also, the DA is announced it is not pressing charges after looking at the evidence.

One thing for sure, the daughter will definitely ring the doorbell next time lol. Thankfully it was just a flesh wound.

I figured.  I was just making a dark joke.

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 09, 2019, 04:26:59 PM
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!

It wasn't that simple (I was just listening to them talk about it on the radio while coming home). She is a single mom that lives alone, she did not expect her daughter, it was at night, she was in bed, the daughter was sneaking around the house (I am sure with good intentions to surprise her mom) in the dark.

I mean it sucks, I am sure the mom feels terrible, but it was a bad move. I wouldn't be mad if I did that to even my best friend.

Also, the DA is announced it is not pressing charges after looking at the evidence.

One thing for sure, the daughter will definitely ring the doorbell next time lol. Thankfully it was just a flesh wound.

I figured.  I was just making a dark joke.

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

From the NRA's own web page (and I imagine what gets hammered into anyone training on the use of a gun)

Quote
Know your target and what is beyond.

Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

This woman gets no sympathy from me and she should be charged. She picked up the gun, fired on someone without verifying who/what it was. In that moment, she decided whoever it was, was to be given a death penalty. She (and her daughter) is just lucky she cant aim for shit.

Could have fired in the ceiling to scare off/let potential attacker know shes awake and armed and not kidding. She chose to aim it at the person instead. Is she judge, jury and executioner?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 09, 2019, 04:37:48 PM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on September 09, 2019, 04:38:23 PM


From the NRA's own web page (and I imagine what gets hammered into anyone training on the use of a gun)

Quote
Know your target and what is beyond.

Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.


The thing is that in a life or death situation I don't know how good my judgement is going to be.  I could be totally cool.  But I'm worried I could just unload on someone innocent. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 04:45:28 PM
Shifter

Have you ever had to deal with a situation of an intruder at night? I am suspecting you have not. I have, multiple times actually (at a shit house I first lived in when I was broke as a joke, I have spoke about this some time ago) and it isn't something you can quarter back from a chair. You have split moments to make a decision...you or them. Do they have a gun? Knife? Are they crazy?

Yes, I didn't shoot anyone any of the times (one time was just a guy fucked off on drugs confused, though there was two times they wanted to do real harm), though I had my gun drawn at every time. However, I have extensive firearm training (even multiple times in the armed break in/active shooter some with air guns), very solid under pressure from when I worked offshore younger so I never panicked and I am a 6'4 male.

However, this instance it was a single woman living alone at night expecting no one to be in her house, also with little to no firearm training. It's not like her daughter lived with her and just came home before curfew...she didn't even live there, so why expect someone.

I have to say in my opinion you are wrong on this one shifter.



Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

You need a gun
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 09, 2019, 04:55:50 PM
Shifter

Have you ever had to deal with a situation of an intruder at night? I am suspecting you have not. I have, multiple times actually (at a shit house I first lived in when I was broke as a joke, I have spoke about this some time ago) and it isn't something you can quarter back from a chair. You have split moments to make a decision...you or them. Do they have a gun? Knife? Are they crazy?

Yes, I didn't shoot anyone any of the times (one time was just a guy fucked off on drugs confused, though there was two times they wanted to do real harm), though I had my gun drawn at every time. However, I have extensive firearm training (even multiple times in the armed break in/active shooter some with air guns), very solid under pressure from when I worked offshore younger so I never panicked and I am a 6'4 male.

However, this instance it was a single woman living alone at night expecting no one to be in her house, also with little to no firearm training. It's not like her daughter lived with her and just came home before curfew...she didn't even live there, so why expect someone.

I have to say in my opinion you are wrong on this one shifter.



Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

You need a gun

I do have an Australian bias where the threat of home invasions especially those with gun crime is near nil. When I speak, it is ultimately from a place like that. I just find it so tragic when people known and loved by someone are killed by accident because they got spooked. Like a wife coming home late at night (expected) and the man in a half sleep/awake state sees a silhouette of a person and unloads

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-man-shoots-wife-mistaking-intruder-sheriff/story?id=64317617

You buy a gun because you a told it can protect you and your family. In so many cases, the guns end up doing the opposite.

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway. You dont take a knife to a gun fight.... What good is a gun in a drone fight?

I'm happy to be considered wrong and I fully understand the mindset of someone living in America is different to that of living in Australia.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 09, 2019, 05:12:16 PM

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 09, 2019, 05:15:21 PM

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

What about martial law, curfews? What if your government one day decides to go full retard like China and start banning people from congregating in the streets or protesting? It would never be overnight but I think there is a trend in that peoples freedoms and privacy are being slowly eroded as it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 05:22:40 PM

I do have an Australian bias where the threat of home invasions especially those with gun crime is near nil. When I speak, it is ultimately from a place like that. I just find it so tragic when people known and loved by someone are killed by accident because they got spooked. Like a wife coming home late at night (expected) and the man in a half sleep/awake state sees a silhouette of a person and unloads

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-man-shoots-wife-mistaking-intruder-sheriff/story?id=64317617

You buy a gun because you a told it can protect you and your family. In so many cases, the guns end up doing the opposite.

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway. You dont take a knife to a gun fight.... What good is a gun in a drone fight?

I'm happy to be considered wrong and I fully understand the mindset of someone living in America is different to that of living in Australia.

I agree about the difference in America vs Australia. If I lived there I would feel comfortable with just a quality knife and bat by my bed.

One of my points to my last post is we are both men and both have some amount of alpha mentality (and much stronger than women) so we would be more prone and less scared to take a fight hand to hand. A woman alone at night, when high 90 percent chance if they have an intruder it would be a male much stronger than them. Plus you have to add the sexual assault factor.

Though, I absolutely hate it when people get a gun and don't take it seriously. You should get extensive and continued training when you decide to take the responsibility of a gun. A man or women with no training does not protect their family, they put them at a liability and danger.

Also, as far as being groggy from sleep, I agree with that. That is why in that crap house I was taking about (which is also when I got my CHL and started taking the sim classes) I reinforced the outside doors so they couldn't be kicked in (at least with less than 20 kicks) and took other security measures. One of my biggest fears was having someone sneak in when I was sound asleep or break in and be at my bed in a few seconds before I could wake and arm myself. This was all training in those sim courses. If someone broke in, and I was in a deep sleep, they wouldn't be in before I was awake and armed.

Training is also how I was able to have people at gun point under control, waiting for the police without having to actually shoot them. Though don't get me wrong, if they got out of hand I would shoot a critical shot and not think twice about it, I was protecting not just myself but my family. Fortunately it didn't get that far.

I have also said many times, protection against tyranny is the dumbest shit now. It was definitely a thing when the military and populous used the same weapons. Now though, entire cities can be destroyed with one guy in a room 2000 miles away. How do civilians fight that with a pistol or rifle?


So in short...in America, I 100 percent agree with people having a gun with extensive training and being mentally capable of handling the pressure. If that is a no for both, don't give them one. I also support more tests for mental fortitude




The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 09, 2019, 05:31:04 PM

What about martial law, curfews?

Those are local events, not national.
They are invoked for a specific reason and voluntarily complied with.

Federal authority has only been used against States.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 09, 2019, 05:40:38 PM

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.

Soldiers pledge to protect the constitution, not the government.

And, now you are going all D1 on us . . .
What tests show only a small minority of soldiers
would kill civilians of their own country if ordered?

Make ME look stupid, show us the tests.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 05:51:58 PM

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.

Soldiers pledge to protect the constitution, not the government.

And, now you are going all D1 on us . . .
What tests show only a small minority of soldiers
would kill civilians of their own country if ordered?

Make ME look stupid, show us the tests.

What? that is nothing new? The majority of soldiers would not fire upon their own civilians. There have been many studies private and within the government, they are questions mixed with other questions. No conspiracy, just simple questions.

If the government wanted to use the military against it's civilians it wouldn't be that hard. From wiggling around the Constitution, to declaring state of emergency to deputizing the military plus many other ways.

Doubt that would ever happen though, I think the government would be on the losing end if they tried that.

So I see you are going to go back to being a dick towards me now. I have done nothing to you. However, I always expect your mood changes, lashing out and stopped trusting you after the second time. Have fun using people as punching bags if they stick around
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 09, 2019, 05:59:26 PM

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.

Soldiers pledge to protect the constitution, not the government.

And, now you are going all D1 on us . . .
What tests show only a small minority of soldiers
would kill civilians of their own country if ordered?

Make ME look stupid, show us the tests.

What? that is nothing new? The majority of soldiers would not fire upon their own civilians. There have been many studies private and within the government, they are questions mixed with other questions. No conspiracy, just simple questions.

If the government wanted to use the military against it's civilians it wouldn't be that hard. From wiggling around the Constitution, to declaring state of emergency to deputizing the military plus many other ways.

Doubt that would ever happen though, I think the government would be on the losing end if they tried that.

So I see you are going to go back to being a dick towards me now. I have done nothing to you. However, I always expect your mood changes, lashing out and stopped trusting you after the second time. Have fun using people as punching bags if they stick around

How plausible was that movie 'Outbreak'? Where an Ebola like virus has gotten hold of a town and mutated to be airborne and the military wants to 'contain' the virus by dropping a bomb on the town

Surely no one wants to drop a bomb on their own countrymen but what if they were told it would ultimately save the whole country?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 09, 2019, 05:59:46 PM
I do not know about any tests, but I know there are plenty of soldiers who would turn on citizens if they were ordered to. They're just normal humans. Some of them are great people, some of them are assholes, and all types in between.

Don't forget that there are others like Timothy McVeigh in the military.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 06:09:17 PM
I do not know about any tests, but I know there are plenty of soldiers who would turn on citizens if they were ordered to. They're just normal humans. Some of them are great people, some of them are assholes, and all types in between.

Don't forget that there are others like Timothy McVeigh in the military.

I am sure the assholes are the ones that checked yes.

From what I remember the average was like 33 percent said they would if ordered. In real life I think it could be higher or lower depending on how vocal people were within the ranks.

If the general consensus would turn to "It's honorable to stand with the people" then the number would probably be in the teens I think.

Though if it turned out the general consensus was "the people are wrong, the government is right", then I would bet on a 50-70 percent turning on their people.


How plausible was that movie 'Outbreak'? Where an Ebola like virus has gotten hold of a town and mutated to be airborne and the military wants to 'contain' the virus by dropping a bomb on the town

Surely no one wants to drop a bomb on their own countrymen but what if they were told it would ultimately save the whole country?

Definitely plausible in that situation. When you bring in security and fear of death...many people will do crazy things.

Hell, America has murdered millions of people in the middle East on that premise.

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would be the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 06:10:08 PM
I do not know about any tests, but I know there are plenty of soldiers who would turn on citizens if they were ordered to. They're just normal humans. Some of them are great people, some of them are assholes, and all types in between.

Don't forget that there are others like Timothy McVeigh in the military.

I am sure the assholes are the ones that checked yes.

From what I remember the average was like 33 percent said they would if ordered. In real life I think it could be higher or lower depending on how vocal people were within the ranks.

If the general consensus would turn to "It's honorable to stand with the people" then the number would probably be in the teens I think.

Though if it turned out the general consensus was "the people are wrong, the government is right", then I would bet on a 50-70 percent turning on their people.


How plausible was that movie 'Outbreak'? Where an Ebola like virus has gotten hold of a town and mutated to be airborne and the military wants to 'contain' the virus by dropping a bomb on the town

Surely no one wants to drop a bomb on their own countrymen but what if they were told it would ultimately save the whole country?

Definitely plausible in that situation. When you bring in security and fear of death...many people will do crazy things.

Hell, America has murdered millions of people in the middle East on that premise.

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would bet the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 09, 2019, 06:13:01 PM

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would be the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion

I nominate Chicago.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 09, 2019, 06:19:09 PM

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would be the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion

I nominate Chicago.

I laughed at that and should not have.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on September 09, 2019, 11:25:32 PM

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.
Of course it can lol. Do you think a piece of paper is gonna stop them? When push comes to shove they'll just enforce martial law. Do you think a tyrannical government (which would presumably not obey the constitution) would refrain from doing that because of the constitution? It could only happen if the military turned on the government too.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on September 10, 2019, 06:05:24 AM

I think if you look around the world at what armed forces regularly do to their own peoples it is patently obvious that a pole of soldiers who say “of course I wouldn’t” isn’t necessarily worth a hill of beans, and even where it is, the percentages you state still make for a massacre.

If you look at your Kent state shooting (1970), 37% of the national guard “admitted” to firing on the students, killing 4, paralysing 1 and wounding a further 8 in less than 20 seconds.

These were young low-grade soldiers in a tense situation in an atmosphere of distrust and rumour, but the dead were unarmed kids about 300 foot away from the 70 odd guardsmen who had already fixed bayonets, hardly a source of immediate peril.

We are an inherently violent species, everyone of us has in our ancestors, killers, who did so to get us this far, and sure, we like to think they were justified, but?     
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on September 27, 2019, 03:42:25 AM
Here is Agent 47 demonstrating a bump stock on an AR15. Never knew just how rapid they could make it.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 27, 2019, 07:53:07 AM
That's a great demonstration video. I'm glad he mentioned the lack of accuracy, and that accuracy isn't the goal when using one. You don't need accuracy if your goal is to spray bullets into a crowd.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 14, 2019, 03:20:13 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/santa-clarita-shooting-2-teens-killed-attack-came-on-suspects-birthday-officials-say/ar-BBWKXvN?ocid=spartanntp

Not a "mass shooting"(according to the definition of one) but still.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 15, 2019, 07:32:45 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 15, 2019, 07:50:53 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 15, 2019, 08:38:02 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.
Or perhaps just stop building paper houses and there will be much fewer break ins.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 15, 2019, 09:15:13 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 15, 2019, 09:29:28 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Mine can, depending on the calibur.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 15, 2019, 10:55:05 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Mine can, depending on the calibur.

So you have Deadpool-like reflexes?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 15, 2019, 10:56:59 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Yes.  There's a documentary about it.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 15, 2019, 11:52:58 AM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Mine can, depending on the calibur.

So you have Deadpool-like reflexes?
Yes.
But considering that we're talking about if my bat can stop a bullet, its not really relevant.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 15, 2019, 02:28:18 PM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Mine can, depending on the calibur.

So you have Deadpool-like reflexes?
Yes.
But considering that we're talking about if my bat can stop a bullet, its not really relevant.

So if I break into your house with a 15 round handgun, you could block all 15 shots in a row with your bat?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 15, 2019, 02:43:58 PM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Mine can, depending on the calibur.

So you have Deadpool-like reflexes?
Yes.
But considering that we're talking about if my bat can stop a bullet, its not really relevant.

So if I break into your house with a 15 round handgun, you could block all 15 shots in a row with your bat?

No neo. We're saying when the time comes, you wont need to.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 15, 2019, 06:08:12 PM
So if I break into your house with a 15 round handgun, you could block all 15 shots in a row with your bat?

I wouldn't argue along those lines if you are a gun supporter,  the end game of that line of reasoning is an arms race, and it's a great argument for making all guns illegal. 

In any case, in America the likelyhood that you will be mistakenly shot in your own home by police is greater than it is anywhere else,  are you going to gun down police?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 15, 2019, 10:16:16 PM

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

I didn't even notice this post.

To answer your question.  My statement is about what I would do.  It wasn't a way that I believe everyone in general should protect their house.

So your bat can stop bullets?

Mine can, depending on the calibur.

So you have Deadpool-like reflexes?
Yes.
But considering that we're talking about if my bat can stop a bullet, its not really relevant.

So if I break into your house with a 15 round handgun, you could block all 15 shots in a row with your bat?
You asked if my bat could block bullets, not if I could use a bat to block bullets fired at me.

What, can you block bullets with your gun or something?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 16, 2019, 01:32:11 AM
No neo. We're saying when the time comes, you wont need to.

I spit my metaphorical milk out when I read this.

Why would anyone even break into your home or attack you? Absolutely not realistic scenario to be honest!

Sometimes its on purpose with crazy people/evil people.

Other times the intruder is caught off guard because they think the home is empty.

Meth is a hell of a drug
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 16, 2019, 08:38:28 AM
Why would the government want to take our guns unless they will be doing things that warrant us shooting at them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 16, 2019, 09:00:33 AM
Why would the government want to take our guns unless they will be doing things that warrant us shooting at them?

What, like Trump declaring himself president for life? :P

But here's more normal answers:

Dead people can't pay taxes.  Less guns, less people being shot.
Lower cost of police.  Less guns, less need for hyper-awareness, less need for special equipment like bullet proof vests.  And lower health care costs for them.  Also, it becomes safer so you have a better chance of hiring people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on November 16, 2019, 09:38:01 AM
Why would the government want to take our guns unless they will be doing things that warrant us shooting at them?

What, like Trump declaring himself president for life? :P

But here's more normal answers:

Dead people can't pay taxes.  Less guns, less people being shot.
Lower cost of police.  Less guns, less need for hyper-awareness, less need for special equipment like bullet proof vests.  And lower health care costs for them.  Also, it becomes safer so you have a better chance of hiring people.

That worked out well the for Jews in Germany, now did it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 16, 2019, 10:00:11 AM
Why would the government want to take our guns unless they will be doing things that warrant us shooting at them?

What, like Trump declaring himself president for life? :P

But here's more normal answers:

Dead people can't pay taxes.  Less guns, less people being shot.
Lower cost of police.  Less guns, less need for hyper-awareness, less need for special equipment like bullet proof vests.  And lower health care costs for them.  Also, it becomes safer so you have a better chance of hiring people.

That worked out well the for Jews in Germany, now did it.
You do realize that gun restrictions were LOOSENED right?
The only restriction became that guns were removed from "dangerous" people.  Jews became those people.
Kinda like if Liberals are deemed too dangerous to own guns but Republicans aren't.  Or vice versa.

Of course, having guns wouldn't have made a difference.  Except maybe they'd have been gunned down in their homes instead of sent to camps but details.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 16, 2019, 11:30:17 AM
Why would the government want to take our guns unless they will be doing things that warrant us shooting at them?

What, like Trump declaring himself president for life? :P

But here's more normal answers:

Dead people can't pay taxes.  Less guns, less people being shot.
Lower cost of police.  Less guns, less need for hyper-awareness, less need for special equipment like bullet proof vests.  And lower health care costs for them.  Also, it becomes safer so you have a better chance of hiring people.

That worked out well the for Jews in Germany, now did it.

Godwins law by inference. RCD loses.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 18, 2019, 09:31:07 AM
Yet again, a shooting in Walmart....

America. Land of the free
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 19, 2019, 02:46:22 AM
Second hand smoke is more dangerous than first hand smoke. 
This is the shit we have to tolerate.

Fucking idiots . . .  ::)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on December 05, 2019, 06:07:22 AM
Americans should be vetted much more at airports. They are very likely to commit a mass shooting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on December 06, 2019, 04:29:48 PM
The last one was Saudi.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 06, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/06/us/florida-ups-truck-police-chase-investigation/index.html

Quote
The scene was a nightmare: After a long, televised police chase of a hijacked UPS truck ground to a halt at a jammed South Florida intersection, gunfire erupted seemingly from everywhere Thursday evening — with vehicles stopped at a traffic light serving as officers' impromptu shields.
Gunfire exploded toward and from the truck. A bystander crouched on a median, then scrambled away as officers closed in.

In the end, four people were shot dead at the intersection in Miramar, authorities said, including two robbery suspects, a bystander, and hostage UPS driver Frank Ordonez, a man who relatives say had been substituting for a colleague who had called out from work that day.

Too bad we don't count it as a mass shooting when the cops do it!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 06, 2019, 09:32:37 PM

Too bad we don't count it as a mass shooting when the cops do it!

The cops saved the UPS driver from being killed by the hostage takers.

What were the cops supposed to do?
Wail until the truck ran out of gas and the hostage takers got hungry or eventually fell asleep?


When we give the police tools of excessive force they will use them.
One of the most appalling scenes I have ever watched.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 06, 2019, 11:28:45 PM

The cops saved the UPS driver from being killed by the hostage takers.


Wait, what?  wasn't the UPS driver shot by the cops?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 07, 2019, 12:52:18 AM

The cops saved the UPS driver from being killed by the hostage takers.


Wait, what?  wasn't the UPS driver shot by the cops?

 ::)  yes
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2019, 01:26:26 AM

The cops saved the UPS driver from being killed by the hostage takers.


Wait, what?  wasn't the UPS driver shot by the cops?

 ::)  yes

This a strange new usage of the word "saved"  that I'm unfamiliar with.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 07, 2019, 02:15:10 AM

The cops saved the UPS driver from being killed by the hostage takers.


Wait, what?  wasn't the UPS driver shot by the cops?

 ::)  yes

This a strange new usage of the word "saved"  that I'm unfamiliar with.

  :o

Like you have never read anything I have EVER written . . .   SARCASM


                             
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2019, 03:38:18 AM

The cops saved the UPS driver from being killed by the hostage takers.


Wait, what?  wasn't the UPS driver shot by the cops?

 ::)  yes

This a strange new usage of the word "saved"  that I'm unfamiliar with.

  :o

Like you have never read anything I have EVER written . . .   SARCASM


                             

You haven't read Douglass Adams?    I'm dissapointed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 07, 2019, 03:54:01 AM

You haven't read Douglass Adams?    I'm dissapointed.

I've never heard the name.

Does he influence your vote?




 ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 07, 2019, 07:52:56 AM
It's so weird to me that the more heavily armed the police become the worse their training gets. They should be spending more time training, and weeding out people who don't belong.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 07, 2019, 08:08:18 AM
If cops would just wait, people get tired and eventually just give up.
Let the adrenaline wear off.

I've seen car chases where they just follow until the driver realizes the game is over.
Driver pulls over, gets out and lays out flat.

Aggressive Policing causes aggressive resistance.
Nobody wants to go to jail.

Wait the crook out. They will give up.

I absolutely agree with you, SCG.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 07, 2019, 08:38:43 AM
It's so weird to me that the more heavily armed the police become the worse their training gets. They should be spending more time training, and weeding out people who don't belong.

There is a reason for it: the job sucks.
Bad hours.  People who could kill you in the blink of an eye.  Constant state of hypervigilence. 

So what can you do but hire people who shouldn't be cops just so you have enough people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on December 07, 2019, 09:15:34 AM
It's so weird to me that the more heavily armed the police become the worse their training gets. They should be spending more time training, and weeding out people who don't belong.

So are we not going to blame the armed assailants that stole the van in the first place?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 07, 2019, 09:29:03 AM
If cops shoot the hostage there is no chance of saving the hostage.
They could have backed away and waited.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 07, 2019, 09:30:45 AM
If cops would just wait, people get tired and eventually just give up.
Let the adrenaline wear off.

I've seen car chases where they just follow until the driver realizes the game is over.
Driver pulls over, gets out and lays out flat.

Aggressive Policing causes aggressive resistance.
Nobody wants to go to jail.

Wait the crook out. They will give up.

I absolutely agree with you, SCG.

I believe that was the policy not long ago.  History tells us that when cops start shooting at robbers then a lot of innocent bystanders tend to get shot. 

Ironically it's all the attention that mass shootings have gotten lately that prompted a policy change which leads to more gun fights between cops and the people they're chasing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on December 07, 2019, 09:32:46 AM
If cops shoot the hostage there is no chance of saving the hostage.
They could have backed away and waited.

Backed away and waited while they were getting shot at by the suspects?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 07, 2019, 10:58:56 AM
It's so weird to me that the more heavily armed the police become the worse their training gets. They should be spending more time training, and weeding out people who don't belong.

There is a reason for it: the job sucks.
Bad hours.  People who could kill you in the blink of an eye.  Constant state of hypervigilence. 

So what can you do but hire people who shouldn't be cops just so you have enough people.

I don't believe that. Lots of jobs suck. People could kill you in the blink of an eye while you're buying groceries. Being a police officer isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US.

The people who would be good police are probably turned off by the corruption of it all. Why would a good human being want to work at a job that regularly steals from citizens? Where their coworkers get away with murder and rape? Where speaking out against corruption can get you killed? They are actively making this job unattractive to the very people who would be best for the job.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2019, 04:57:54 PM

You haven't read Douglass Adams?    I'm dissapointed.

I've never heard the name.

Does he influence your vote?


Probably,  but only if I keep my sense of humor.   

On the subject of Presidents,   his view was that under no circumstances should anyone who wants to become President ever be allowed to. 

I don't know his views on police shooting innocent bystanders,  but I can guess.

He did however make some pertinent observations about police parking ability.

“There were three of them, three police cars left askew across the road in a way that transcended mere parking. It sent out a massive signal to the world saying that the law was here now taking charge of things, and that anyone who just had normal, good and cheerful business to conduct in Lupton Road could just fuck off.”


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 07, 2019, 09:56:50 PM

On the subject of Presidents,   his view was that under no circumstances should anyone who wants to become President ever be allowed to.

Hahaha, I instantly love the dude.

I think the President should be chosen like jury duty.
You get a letter telling you to pack your bags and show up at the White House.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 08, 2019, 04:09:53 PM

On the subject of Presidents,   his view was that under no circumstances should anyone who wants to become President ever be allowed to.

Hahaha, I instantly love the dude.

I think the President should be chosen like jury duty.
You get a letter telling you to pack your bags and show up at the White House.

See if you can get a copy of  Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.   It should appeal to your sense of humor.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on December 09, 2019, 02:13:37 AM
There is a reason for it: the job sucks.
Bad hours.  People who could kill you in the blink of an eye.  Constant state of hypervigilence. 
And donut icing gets everywhere.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F600x315%2F01%2F0b%2F02%2F010b027ea9c34c47a7e92c73f6ee6f4e.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 30, 2019, 02:31:03 PM
This doesn't count as a mass shooting, but it's another shooting in a church. This time the shooter was not counting on the congregation to be armed, I guess? https://www.rt.com/viral/477068-people-shot-church-white-settlement-texas/

 
Quote
A gunman killed one and injured another person during a service at a church in White Settlement, Texas, before a parishioner shot him dead.

In a graphic livestreamed video from the service, the gunman - wearing a black hood - approaches the communion server before pulling out what appears to be a shotgun. He manages to shoot two worshippers at point-black range as the panicked crowd dives for cover among the wooden pews. Before the gunman can squeeze off a third shot, an armed "heroic parishioner" as police later call him shoots the perpetrator. Multiple other bystanders pull weapons and encircle the man.

I watched the video. Don't mess with Texans at church, mofos.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 30, 2019, 02:57:58 PM
Honestly, it strikes me as "suicide by cop".  Just the way it went down.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 20, 2020, 02:40:31 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/multiple-injured-active-shooter-incident-wisconsins-mayfair-mall/story?id=74325556

Quote
Multiple injured in active shooter incident at Wisconsin's Mayfair Mall: Mayor
The perpetrator is "at large," the mayor said.

Multiple people were injured in a shooting at the Mayfair Mall in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin, on Friday, the local mayor said.

None of the victims' injuries appear to be life-threatening and they are being taken to the hospital, Wauwatosa Mayor Dennis McBride told ABC News.

The perpetrator is "at large," the mayor said.

About 75 officers have descended on the scene in Wauwatosa, about 6 miles outside Milwaukee. The FBI's Milwaukee office also said it was responding to assist local law enforcement personnel.


Haven't been too many shooting sprees since the corone took over.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on November 21, 2020, 01:20:50 AM
This doesn't count as a mass shooting, but it's another shooting in a church. This time the shooter was not counting on the congregation to be armed, I guess? https://www.rt.com/viral/477068-people-shot-church-white-settlement-texas/

 
Quote
A gunman killed one and injured another person during a service at a church in White Settlement, Texas, before a parishioner shot him dead.

In a graphic livestreamed video from the service, the gunman - wearing a black hood - approaches the communion server before pulling out what appears to be a shotgun. He manages to shoot two worshippers at point-black range as the panicked crowd dives for cover among the wooden pews. Before the gunman can squeeze off a third shot, an armed "heroic parishioner" as police later call him shoots the perpetrator. Multiple other bystanders pull weapons and encircle the man.

I watched the video. Don't mess with Texans at church, mofos.

And in a town called White Settlement too.  Is it in Manifest Destiny County?

(Sorry if that’s bad taste)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on November 23, 2020, 06:48:30 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin-police-arrest-15-old-231544816.html

Guns can be bad but once again they are not the problem. The shooter was a 15 year old.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 23, 2020, 11:20:26 AM
Guns don't kill people.  People kill people.  Guns just make it easier for people to kill people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on November 23, 2020, 04:49:32 PM
Guns don't kill people.  People kill people.  Guns just make it easier for people to kill people.

Yeah, without a gun you have to throw the bullets really hard.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on November 23, 2020, 05:16:41 PM
Guns don't kill people.  People kill people.  Guns just make it easier for people to kill people.

Yeah, without a gun you have to throw the bullets really hard.

Guns and bullets don't kill people, a good arm and aim does.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 23, 2020, 05:26:04 PM
I used to have a neighbor who said "it's not the bullet that kills you, it's the velocity". 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 23, 2020, 07:34:14 PM
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a7D5Prz_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 24, 2020, 12:48:45 AM
I used to have a neighbor who said "it's not the bullet that kills you, it's the velocity".
Thats just wrong, from a physics point of view.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 24, 2020, 02:35:22 AM


Guns can be bad but once again they are not the problem. The shooter was a 15 year old.

I mean fuck me, this? And all the “Guns don’t kill people they just give me the throbs, and I need muh guns to feel like a man, cos basically I’m a massive coward in a tutu too scared without one to function as a rational human being.”

FFS America, grow the fuck up. Ask these guys if guns kill people.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/CambridgeAmericanCemetery.jpg/800px-CambridgeAmericanCemetery.jpg)
And relax………..
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 24, 2020, 03:22:47 AM
See? With your guns!

(https://squirrelbasket.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/goodbye-bambi.jpg)

Bastards.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on November 24, 2020, 05:09:14 AM
It's so weird to me that the more heavily armed the police become the worse their training gets. They should be spending more time training, and weeding out people who don't belong.

There is a reason for it: the job sucks.
Bad hours.  People who could kill you in the blink of an eye.  Constant state of hypervigilence. 

So what can you do but hire people who shouldn't be cops just so you have enough people.

I don't believe that. Lots of jobs suck. People could kill you in the blink of an eye while you're buying groceries. Being a police officer isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US.

The people who would be good police are probably turned off by the corruption of it all. Why would a good human being want to work at a job that regularly steals from citizens? Where their coworkers get away with murder and rape? Where speaking out against corruption can get you killed? They are actively making this job unattractive to the very people who would be best for the job.

Yeah, the police specifically recruit people who will be loyal and follow orders.  They even have a policy against hiring people that are 'too smart' which they got sued over and managed to win in court.

They want team players, meaning team police, not team citizen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 24, 2020, 05:11:44 AM
See? With your guns!

(https://squirrelbasket.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/goodbye-bambi.jpg)

Bastards.


If Bambi had been carrying then she would have been able to defend herself and this would never have happened. 

(https://www.toonpool.com/user/23027/files/caccia_sportiva_1272125.jpg)

You're going to think twice about engaging with that mofo.  The solution to guns is more guns!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 24, 2020, 08:31:30 AM
See? With your guns!

(https://squirrelbasket.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/goodbye-bambi.jpg)

Bastards.


If Bambi had been carrying then she would have been able to defend herself and this would never have happened. 

(https://www.toonpool.com/user/23027/files/caccia_sportiva_1272125.jpg)

You're going to think twice about engaging with that mofo.  The solution to guns is more guns!

How would bambi pull the trigger tho? It cant  move its antler.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 24, 2020, 08:52:44 AM
If Bambi had been carrying then she would have been able to defend herself and this would never have happened. 

(https://www.toonpool.com/user/23027/files/caccia_sportiva_1272125.jpg)

You're going to think twice about engaging with that mofo.  The solution to guns is more guns!

How would bambi pull the trigger tho? It cant  move its antler.
Don't you see where the pack says "TELE CONTROL"?  Obviously that means that it's telepathically controlled.

BTW, Bambi is a boy, hence the antlers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 02:12:17 AM
How is this for a tone deaf response?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/atlanta-shootings-reveal-scourge-of-asian-hate-crimes-amid-covid/13258270

Quote
This week, shootings at three spas near the US city of Atlanta, Georgia left eight people dead. Six of those people were women of Asian descent.

The public did what it does best when incidents of violence form an unmistakable pattern.

They prayed for the victims, called for gun control and, most of all, sought answers on the perpetrator's motivation — any shred of detail that could help them understand whether it would happen again and whether, next time, it would happen to them.

This is how a 23-minute press conference became the subject of national outrage, the spark lifting a long-simmering conversation into a full-blown debate.

The 21-year-old man charged with murder told police he was suffering from a "sexual addiction" and had frequented the businesses he targeted.

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," a County Sheriff told reporters.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.

"It's still early on ... but the indicators right now are that it might not be [racially motivated]."

The Sheriff's spokesman explained the man's mindset as "pretty much fed up. He was at the end of his rope".

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him," the spokesman said.
"And this is what he did."


So the next time you have a bad day, apparently, shooting up a bunch of people is just a thing you can do

The loser should have pointed the gun to his own dick if he wanted to get rid of his temptations. And then because he's a dickhead, point the gun to the dick on his head and pull the trigger

And yet, even with shit like this happening, the repugnican party objects / votes against a bill condemning anti-Asian sentiment and hate. Fuck 'em.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 04:07:17 AM
How is this for a tone deaf response?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/atlanta-shootings-reveal-scourge-of-asian-hate-crimes-amid-covid/13258270

Quote
This week, shootings at three spas near the US city of Atlanta, Georgia left eight people dead. Six of those people were women of Asian descent.

The public did what it does best when incidents of violence form an unmistakable pattern.

They prayed for the victims, called for gun control and, most of all, sought answers on the perpetrator's motivation — any shred of detail that could help them understand whether it would happen again and whether, next time, it would happen to them.

This is how a 23-minute press conference became the subject of national outrage, the spark lifting a long-simmering conversation into a full-blown debate.

The 21-year-old man charged with murder told police he was suffering from a "sexual addiction" and had frequented the businesses he targeted.

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," a County Sheriff told reporters.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.

"It's still early on ... but the indicators right now are that it might not be [racially motivated]."

The Sheriff's spokesman explained the man's mindset as "pretty much fed up. He was at the end of his rope".

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him," the spokesman said.
"And this is what he did."


So the next time you have a bad day, apparently, shooting up a bunch of people is just a thing you can do

The loser should have pointed the gun to his own dick if he wanted to get rid of his temptations. And then because he's a dickhead, point the gun to the dick on his head and pull the trigger

And yet, even with shit like this happening, the repugnican party objects / votes against a bill condemning anti-Asian sentiment and hate. Fuck 'em.
The shooting had nothing to do with race.

The shooter told the entire world this.

The guy was a nut job.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 04:12:48 AM
How is this for a tone deaf response?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/atlanta-shootings-reveal-scourge-of-asian-hate-crimes-amid-covid/13258270

Quote
This week, shootings at three spas near the US city of Atlanta, Georgia left eight people dead. Six of those people were women of Asian descent.

The public did what it does best when incidents of violence form an unmistakable pattern.

They prayed for the victims, called for gun control and, most of all, sought answers on the perpetrator's motivation — any shred of detail that could help them understand whether it would happen again and whether, next time, it would happen to them.

This is how a 23-minute press conference became the subject of national outrage, the spark lifting a long-simmering conversation into a full-blown debate.

The 21-year-old man charged with murder told police he was suffering from a "sexual addiction" and had frequented the businesses he targeted.

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," a County Sheriff told reporters.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.

"It's still early on ... but the indicators right now are that it might not be [racially motivated]."

The Sheriff's spokesman explained the man's mindset as "pretty much fed up. He was at the end of his rope".

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him," the spokesman said.
"And this is what he did."


So the next time you have a bad day, apparently, shooting up a bunch of people is just a thing you can do

The loser should have pointed the gun to his own dick if he wanted to get rid of his temptations. And then because he's a dickhead, point the gun to the dick on his head and pull the trigger

And yet, even with shit like this happening, the repugnican party objects / votes against a bill condemning anti-Asian sentiment and hate. Fuck 'em.
The shooting had nothing to do with race.

The shooter told the entire world this.

The guy was a nut job.

Yeah, the shooter is such a reliable and non biased source of information ::) I'm sure Asian women in America can feel at ease that their country respects them ::)

However the particular point I referred to in the quote was how somehow 'having a bad day' is an excuse.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 04:19:16 AM
How is this for a tone deaf response?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/atlanta-shootings-reveal-scourge-of-asian-hate-crimes-amid-covid/13258270

Quote
This week, shootings at three spas near the US city of Atlanta, Georgia left eight people dead. Six of those people were women of Asian descent.

The public did what it does best when incidents of violence form an unmistakable pattern.

They prayed for the victims, called for gun control and, most of all, sought answers on the perpetrator's motivation — any shred of detail that could help them understand whether it would happen again and whether, next time, it would happen to them.

This is how a 23-minute press conference became the subject of national outrage, the spark lifting a long-simmering conversation into a full-blown debate.

The 21-year-old man charged with murder told police he was suffering from a "sexual addiction" and had frequented the businesses he targeted.

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," a County Sheriff told reporters.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.

"It's still early on ... but the indicators right now are that it might not be [racially motivated]."

The Sheriff's spokesman explained the man's mindset as "pretty much fed up. He was at the end of his rope".

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him," the spokesman said.
"And this is what he did."


So the next time you have a bad day, apparently, shooting up a bunch of people is just a thing you can do

The loser should have pointed the gun to his own dick if he wanted to get rid of his temptations. And then because he's a dickhead, point the gun to the dick on his head and pull the trigger

And yet, even with shit like this happening, the repugnican party objects / votes against a bill condemning anti-Asian sentiment and hate. Fuck 'em.
The shooting had nothing to do with race.

The shooter told the entire world this.

The guy was a nut job.

Yeah, the shooter is such a reliable and non biased source of information ::) I'm sure Asian women in America can feel at ease that their country respects them ::)

However the particular point I referred to in the quote was how somehow 'having a bad day' is an excuse.
Unlike you, he is a very direct source.

You, as your nom de plume states, are blind to the truth.

Having a bad day should be something with which you are highly familiar.

You choose to spread your bad day around in the only manner you are capable of doing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 04:24:59 AM
How is this for a tone deaf response?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/atlanta-shootings-reveal-scourge-of-asian-hate-crimes-amid-covid/13258270

Quote
This week, shootings at three spas near the US city of Atlanta, Georgia left eight people dead. Six of those people were women of Asian descent.

The public did what it does best when incidents of violence form an unmistakable pattern.

They prayed for the victims, called for gun control and, most of all, sought answers on the perpetrator's motivation — any shred of detail that could help them understand whether it would happen again and whether, next time, it would happen to them.

This is how a 23-minute press conference became the subject of national outrage, the spark lifting a long-simmering conversation into a full-blown debate.

The 21-year-old man charged with murder told police he was suffering from a "sexual addiction" and had frequented the businesses he targeted.

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," a County Sheriff told reporters.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.

"It's still early on ... but the indicators right now are that it might not be [racially motivated]."

The Sheriff's spokesman explained the man's mindset as "pretty much fed up. He was at the end of his rope".

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him," the spokesman said.
"And this is what he did."


So the next time you have a bad day, apparently, shooting up a bunch of people is just a thing you can do

The loser should have pointed the gun to his own dick if he wanted to get rid of his temptations. And then because he's a dickhead, point the gun to the dick on his head and pull the trigger

And yet, even with shit like this happening, the repugnican party objects / votes against a bill condemning anti-Asian sentiment and hate. Fuck 'em.
The shooting had nothing to do with race.

The shooter told the entire world this.

The guy was a nut job.

Yeah, the shooter is such a reliable and non biased source of information ::) I'm sure Asian women in America can feel at ease that their country respects them ::)

However the particular point I referred to in the quote was how somehow 'having a bad day' is an excuse.
Unlike you, he is a very direct source.

You, as your nom de plume states, are blind to the truth.

Having a bad day should be something with which you are highly familiar.

You choose to spread your bad day around in the only manner you are capable of doing.

Yeah, keep giving credence to mass murdering evil pieces of human garbage. That sounds just like the guy you are. Whatever, troll. We know you dont give a fuck about anyone else but your own miserable POS existence. But maybe you yanks are so numb to mass murder you stopped giving a shit a long time ago. Just another day in the U.S of A.

What a shithole
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 04:53:15 AM
How is this for a tone deaf response?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/atlanta-shootings-reveal-scourge-of-asian-hate-crimes-amid-covid/13258270

Quote
This week, shootings at three spas near the US city of Atlanta, Georgia left eight people dead. Six of those people were women of Asian descent.

The public did what it does best when incidents of violence form an unmistakable pattern.

They prayed for the victims, called for gun control and, most of all, sought answers on the perpetrator's motivation — any shred of detail that could help them understand whether it would happen again and whether, next time, it would happen to them.

This is how a 23-minute press conference became the subject of national outrage, the spark lifting a long-simmering conversation into a full-blown debate.

The 21-year-old man charged with murder told police he was suffering from a "sexual addiction" and had frequented the businesses he targeted.

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," a County Sheriff told reporters.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.

"It's still early on ... but the indicators right now are that it might not be [racially motivated]."

The Sheriff's spokesman explained the man's mindset as "pretty much fed up. He was at the end of his rope".

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him," the spokesman said.
"And this is what he did."


So the next time you have a bad day, apparently, shooting up a bunch of people is just a thing you can do

The loser should have pointed the gun to his own dick if he wanted to get rid of his temptations. And then because he's a dickhead, point the gun to the dick on his head and pull the trigger

And yet, even with shit like this happening, the repugnican party objects / votes against a bill condemning anti-Asian sentiment and hate. Fuck 'em.
The shooting had nothing to do with race.

The shooter told the entire world this.

The guy was a nut job.

Yeah, the shooter is such a reliable and non biased source of information ::) I'm sure Asian women in America can feel at ease that their country respects them ::)

However the particular point I referred to in the quote was how somehow 'having a bad day' is an excuse.
Unlike you, he is a very direct source.

You, as your nom de plume states, are blind to the truth.

Having a bad day should be something with which you are highly familiar.

You choose to spread your bad day around in the only manner you are capable of doing.

Yeah, keep giving credence to mass murdering evil pieces of human garbage. That sounds just like the guy you are. Whatever, troll. We know you dont give a fuck about anyone else but your own miserable POS existence. But maybe you yanks are so numb to mass murder you stopped giving a shit a long time ago. Just another day in the U.S of A.

What a shithole
I am going to give credence to any person with a gun willing to use it.

No one is justifying what the guy did.

You are just trying to make it something it isn't.

The murders had nothing to do with race.

Just like the Chinese slaughter of millions over the centuries had nothing to with race, considering it was their own people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 04:57:22 AM
I am going to give credence to any person with a gun willing to use it.
Like this shooter

No one is justifying what the guy did.
You already have ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on March 19, 2021, 06:39:03 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

Just like the Chinese slaughter of millions over the centuries had nothing to with race, considering it was their own people.

Well said, thanks for another shining example of being an awful person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 19, 2021, 07:29:14 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

How the hell would you know?  You've read his mind now?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 07:58:13 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

How the hell would you know?  You've read his mind now?
Didn't need to read his mind.

The police caught him and he told everyone what the shootings were about.

It is the race baiting AI bots like JJA and Shifter refusing to accept the statements taken from the murderer and provided by the police in this case.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 08:01:13 AM
I am going to give credence to any person with a gun willing to use it.
Like this shooter
Anyone with a loaded weapon, having already discharged that weapon multiple times?

Everyone should give that someone credence.

No one is justifying what the guy did.
You already have ::)
[/quote]
No, I haven't.

Your spin has run out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 08:08:35 AM
"having a bad day" is just an excuse - and not one to justify. Not something you tell the community wanting answers as to why, how and what the hell happened.

Credence means to lend truth or believeability. Someone murdering many people and then claim he's having a bad day - that's not a motive. That's not a reason. And frankly, I wouldn't be so eager to trust someone so mind fucked and disturbed. 'having a bad day' and leaving it at that (as you are happy to) dehumanises everyone whose life was lost.

You are such a terrible person whether you are just trolling or not that you will never understand. Your brain lacks the centre needed to understand or have compassion or empathy for others.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 08:24:28 AM
"having a bad day" is just an excuse - and not one to justify. Not something you tell the community wanting answers as to why, how and what the hell happened.

Credence means to lend truth or believeability. Someone murdering many people and then claim he's having a bad day - that's not a motive. That's not a reason. And frankly, I wouldn't be so eager to trust someone so mind fucked and disturbed. 'having a bad day' and leaving it at that (as you are happy to) dehumanises everyone whose life was lost.

You are such a terrible person whether you are just trolling or not that you will never understand. Your brain lacks the centre needed to understand or have compassion or empathy for others.
If you carefully read what you just wrote, you will see why credence is to be granted to an active shooter.

Credence does not equal justification.

I have no clue why you cannot grasp this.

You are also the one crying out for others to be empathetic to people having a bad day.

When people have a bad day and decide to shoot one or many people because of that, it is sheer madness and insanity that is at the heart of it.

Not racism.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 19, 2021, 08:30:19 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

How the hell would you know?  You've read his mind now?
Didn't need to read his mind.

The police caught him and he told everyone what the shootings were about.

And you believe everything that a misogynistic homicidal maniac says now do you?  A person you have just described as a "nutter"

Now the guy is a bastion of truth who's every word should be believed?   ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 19, 2021, 08:35:08 AM
When I have a bad day I do not go out and shoot people. Sometimes I am a bit short with internet weirdos, but I have managed not to murder them.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 08:38:20 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

How the hell would you know?  You've read his mind now?
Didn't need to read his mind.

The police caught him and he told everyone what the shootings were about.

And you believe everything that a misogynistic homicidal maniac says now do you?  A person you have just described as a "nutter"

Now the guy is a bastion of truth who's every word should be believed?   ::)
Why would he lie about his reason?

Murder carries the ultimate sentence of death when committed in Georgia. If it was committed for racist reasons, the penalty could be no more severe.

Do you want everyone to believe a mass murder will somehow lie and say, "Yeah, I shot and killed those people, but believe me...I am not a racist."

When a person does something, admits doing it, and tells you why they did it, I would certainly believe the why having seen the horror of what.

You, you have no clue what you are doing and wouldn't believe you for all the tea in China.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 19, 2021, 08:39:25 AM
When I have a bad day I do not go out and shoot people. Sometimes I am a bit short with internet weirdos, but I have managed not to murder them.
Which is a good thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 19, 2021, 09:31:41 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

How the hell would you know?  You've read his mind now?
Didn't need to read his mind.

The police caught him and he told everyone what the shootings were about.

And you believe everything that a misogynistic homicidal maniac says now do you?  A person you have just described as a "nutter"

Now the guy is a bastion of truth who's every word should be believed?   ::)
Why would he lie about his reason?
Why would he murder 8 people?  You are trying to ascribe rational motivation to someone you just called a "nutter".

I'm sure we will find find out whether he was a misogynistic, homicidal maniac or a racist, misogynistic, homicidal maniac in the coming days, as the police investigate. 

Until then I think I'll think I'll choose not to take anything this scumbag has to say at face value.

Quote
You, you have no clue what you are doing and wouldn't believe you for all the tea in China.
What the hell are you on about?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 19, 2021, 09:41:19 AM
When I have a bad day I do not go out and shoot people. Sometimes I am a bit short with internet weirdos, but I have managed not to murder them.
Likely story. I'm gonna just go ahead and run that by Gotham OH WAIT I CAN'T. Hmm.............


For reasons I can't even figure out, I'm gonna toss an idea out here. One possibility, among countless others. It's entirely possible from what I've seen of this that race really isn't the motivating factor. I'm not going to speculate with words like probable, or likely, or anything like that. Just possible. If this person is really a sex addict, and he shot up this place that may or may not have catered to that addiction, the addiction itself could be the motivating factor instead of race, and if that particular massage parlor was staffed by people of any other race or races, it wouldn't have mattered.

I'm not saying I'm right about this. But I'm saying I think there's room for the possibility that this person murdered 8 people without it necessarily being related to race.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
When I have a bad day I do not go out and shoot people. Sometimes I am a bit short with internet weirdos, but I have managed not to murder them.
Likely story. I'm gonna just go ahead and run that by Gotham OH WAIT I CAN'T. Hmm.............


For reasons I can't even figure out, I'm gonna toss an idea out here. One possibility, among countless others. It's entirely possible from what I've seen of this that race really isn't the motivating factor. I'm not going to speculate with words like probable, or likely, or anything like that. Just possible. If this person is really a sex addict, and he shot up this place that may or may not have catered to that addiction, the addiction itself could be the motivating factor instead of race, and if that particular massage parlor was staffed by people of any other race or races, it wouldn't have mattered.

I'm not saying I'm right about this. But I'm saying I think there's room for the possibility that this person murdered 8 people without it necessarily being related to race.

Maybe... Or maybe he is a racist misogynistic loser who had no problems going through something as extreme as murder to feel to end it because when he sees women or sees other races, he ascribes much less value to them. Given 'hate crime' is also a charge, this angle is worthy of investigation

Like I say, 'having a bad day' is not a motive and I don't think police should say it as some kind of reason this happened. It's shoddy investigation if that's where they are going to leave it.

It seems fine for the court of public opinion to charge anyone with an Islamic sounding name of terrorism whenever they murder people - but the moment a 'white guy' does something, it's 'oh hes having a bad day' or 'he had a mental breakdown/alcohol/drugs etc' or some other washing away the motive
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 19, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
https://twitter.com/NBCAsianAmerica/status/1372940619522392064?s=20
Quote
The names of the 8 people killed in Atlanta-area spa attacks Tuesday:

• Soon C. Park, age 74

• Hyun J. Grant, age 51

• Suncha Kim, age 69

• Yong A. Yue, age 63

• Delaina Ashley Yaun, age 33

• Paul Andre Michels, age 54

• Xiaojie Tan, age 49

• Daoyou Feng, age 44

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 19, 2021, 10:39:32 AM
Like I say, 'having a bad day' is not a motive and I don't think police should say it as some kind of reason this happened. It's shoddy investigation if that's where they are going to leave it.

It seems fine for the court of public opinion to charge anyone with an Islamic sounding name of terrorism whenever they murder people - but the moment a 'white guy' does something, it's 'oh hes having a bad day' or 'he had a mental breakdown/alcohol/drugs etc' or some other washing away the motive
I'm not saying anything like that though. I agree with you about "having a bad day" not being a motive and that they shouldn't be going easy on him. I just think there's room here, however little it may be, for race not to necessarily be what this was about. That being said, I'm not going to be surprised if it turns out this guy has a track record of being racist towards Asian people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 19, 2021, 10:50:09 AM
The murders had nothing to do with race.

How the hell would you know?  You've read his mind now?
Didn't need to read his mind.

The police caught him and he told everyone what the shootings were about.

And you believe everything that a misogynistic homicidal maniac says now do you?  A person you have just described as a "nutter"

Now the guy is a bastion of truth who's every word should be believed?   ::)
Why would he lie about his reason?
Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH
When people have a bad day and decide to shoot one or many people because of that, it is sheer madness and insanity that is at the heart of it.
So he's not lying because he has nothing to lose, but he's also insane.  You do know that someone who is insane can lie, right?  Especially to themselves? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 19, 2021, 11:07:14 AM
When I have a bad day I do not go out and shoot people. Sometimes I am a bit short with internet weirdos, but I have managed not to murder them.
Likely story. I'm gonna just go ahead and run that by Gotham OH WAIT I CAN'T. Hmm.............


Gotham is fine! He's gone to live on a farm!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 19, 2021, 01:16:29 PM
He bought the farm?!?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 19, 2021, 06:39:26 PM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers

An interesting read from the perspective of an Asian American who also used to be a sex worker and who can see the possibility that this wasn't a crime committed because of race. Which, she is clear to state and I didn't but should have, shouldn't preclude it from still being considered a hate crime, because it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 19, 2021, 08:06:05 PM

. . . it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

That is the lunacy of "hate crime".There is no end to the definition.
If a girl beats her boyfriend to death for having a side piece,is that a hate crime?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 09:28:52 PM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers

An interesting read from the perspective of an Asian American who also used to be a sex worker and who can see the possibility that this wasn't a crime committed because of race. Which, she is clear to state and I didn't but should have, shouldn't preclude it from still being considered a hate crime, because it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

If you ask Trump if he 'loves women' will he say 'no, I'm a sexist misogynist and have no respect for them'? Of course he won't. When he says he 'loves women' he may even believe it to be true but objectively is it?

This shooter... He may say it's his sex addiction but what is it about women he finds their life and value so disposable? So worthless he has zero issue in shooting them dead for his problem?

Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?

He may not think he's racist, but deep down he probably harbours a prejudice in the way he thinks Asians and/or women have little value. Racism and sexism is not limited to 'hate'

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 19, 2021, 09:59:59 PM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers)

An interesting read from the perspective of an Asian American who also used to be a sex worker and who can see the possibility that this wasn't a crime committed because of race. Which, she is clear to state and I didn't but should have, shouldn't preclude it from still being considered a hate crime, because it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

If you ask Trump if he 'loves women' will he say 'no, I'm a sexist misogynist and have no respect for them'? Of course he won't. When he says he 'loves women' he may even believe it to be true but objectively is it?

This shooter... He may say it's his sex addiction but what is it about women he finds their life and value so disposable? So worthless he has zero issue in shooting them dead for his problem?

Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?

He may not think he's racist, but deep down he probably harbours a prejudice in the way he thinks Asians and/or women have little value. Racism and sexism is not limited to 'hate'

Lucky thing we have some internet tard to tell us what other people think and feel.Otherwise we would be left to wait for facts.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 10:10:34 PM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers)

An interesting read from the perspective of an Asian American who also used to be a sex worker and who can see the possibility that this wasn't a crime committed because of race. Which, she is clear to state and I didn't but should have, shouldn't preclude it from still being considered a hate crime, because it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

If you ask Trump if he 'loves women' will he say 'no, I'm a sexist misogynist and have no respect for them'? Of course he won't. When he says he 'loves women' he may even believe it to be true but objectively is it?

This shooter... He may say it's his sex addiction but what is it about women he finds their life and value so disposable? So worthless he has zero issue in shooting them dead for his problem?

Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?

He may not think he's racist, but deep down he probably harbours a prejudice in the way he thinks Asians and/or women have little value. Racism and sexism is not limited to 'hate'

Lucky thing we have some internet tard to tell us what other people think and feel.Otherwise we would be left to wait for facts.

Lucky indeed

Some people are just happy to leave abhorrent crimes as 'just having a bad day, nothing more to see' ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 19, 2021, 11:48:12 PM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers)

An interesting read from the perspective of an Asian American who also used to be a sex worker and who can see the possibility that this wasn't a crime committed because of race. Which, she is clear to state and I didn't but should have, shouldn't preclude it from still being considered a hate crime, because it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

If you ask Trump if he 'loves women' will he say 'no, I'm a sexist misogynist and have no respect for them'? Of course he won't. When he says he 'loves women' he may even believe it to be true but objectively is it?

This shooter... He may say it's his sex addiction but what is it about women he finds their life and value so disposable? So worthless he has zero issue in shooting them dead for his problem?

Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?

He may not think he's racist, but deep down he probably harbours a prejudice in the way he thinks Asians and/or women have little value. Racism and sexism is not limited to 'hate'

Lucky thing we have some internet tard to tell us what other people think and feel.Otherwise we would be left to wait for facts.

Lucky indeed

Some people are just happy to leave abhorrent crimes as 'just having a bad day, nothing more to see' ::)

I understand. It's scary for some people to wait hours for facts before passing judgment.You apparently have that special gene that allows you to bypass facts and evidence
that interfere with your predetermined opinion.
I envy you. I wish my brain had an idle speed.   ;D




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 19, 2021, 11:58:32 PM
Do you think it was a bit tone deaf to say the reason this happened was because the guy was 'having a bad day'? How would you feel if someone murdered someone you cared about and law enforcement told you it was because the guy was having a bad day

Surely a motive is worthy to investigate. He can claim he's a sex addict but again, you have sex addicts that don't feel the need to murder

This guy saw these sex workers as having zero value - as evidenced by his murder of them without remorse
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 20, 2021, 12:19:07 AM
Motive has absolutely zero probative value.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 20, 2021, 01:11:03 AM
Understanding why some people behave or think the way they do can help us to learn and maybe reduce or prevent the likelihood it happens again

Why did this guy fall through the cracks? How did he come to be a 'sex addict'? What kind of shit does he follow that led him to believe murdering sex workers was an acceptable solution?

Or maybe you're right. It's all too hard. Just write it off as having 'just some guy having a bad day'
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 20, 2021, 01:39:20 AM
Aside from everyone going through a 30 minute evaluation every morning to assure they did not become a nut job over night, you are just wishing straight into the wind.
"Good morning citizen 984326188, are you insane today?Fill out these forms and go stand in line"
"These days and times" have always been part of human history.Now is no different.

Lizzy Bordon, Lindbergh baby, Hitler, people suck.

You are trying to solve a problem you have not yet defined.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on March 20, 2021, 03:31:16 AM

I understand. It's scary for some people to wait hours for facts before passing judgment.You apparently have that special gene that allows you to bypass facts and evidence
that interfere with your predetermined opinion.
I envy you. I wish my brain had an idle speed.   ;D

Not “facts and evidence”, just this shit head’s story, that in his mind portrays him in the best possible light under the circumstances.  He claims he didn’t murder these women because he’s sexist or racist, but because he’s such a virile manly man he just couldn’t control his urges.   Amazing the police lent any credibility to this.

Why should anyone give a fuck about his excuses? Why not call him a racist sexist loser who killed these women because they saw his tiny flaccid prick? 

Republican representatives apparently think being prejudiced against Asian people is fine.  Well I think being prejudiced against piece of shit murdering psychopaths is fine. Fuck his feelings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on March 20, 2021, 04:40:48 AM
Understanding why some people behave or think the way they do can help us to learn and maybe reduce or prevent the likelihood it happens again

Why did this guy fall through the cracks? How did he come to be a 'sex addict'? What kind of shit does he follow that led him to believe murdering sex workers was an acceptable solution?

Or maybe you're right. It's all too hard. Just write it off as having 'just some guy having a bad day'

I'm going to hazard a guess at too much porn and too little real human relationships, probably resulting from the first thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on March 20, 2021, 04:46:29 AM

. . . it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

That is the lunacy of "hate crime".There is no end to the definition.
If a girl beats her boyfriend to death for having a side piece,is that a hate crime?

Welcome to the real world where things can get confusing.

The KKK lynching black men, women and even children in the 60s and getting away with it because the local sheriffs were members and helping, that's a hate crime.

Just because it can be hard to decide in some cases doesn't mean the entire idea of hate crimes is "lunacy".  Those laws were passed for good reason.

If you're going to go down that road, you might as well call the crime of "murder" lunacy because there are plenty of cases that are not easy to decide.  So lets just remove murder from the books because you can make up silly examples about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 20, 2021, 05:09:10 AM
Defindd as hating someone for their merely being different and existencing in your prescence.


A jealous girlfriend hates your guts, but if she only cuts your dick off, thats dom violence.
If she cuts off 2 or more stranges dicks then shes a wacko serial hater.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 21, 2021, 06:11:55 AM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-03-19/tracy-quan-dont-forget-the-atlanta-shooting-is-a-hate-crime-against-sex-workers

An interesting read from the perspective of an Asian American who also used to be a sex worker and who can see the possibility that this wasn't a crime committed because of race. Which, she is clear to state and I didn't but should have, shouldn't preclude it from still being considered a hate crime, because it was a hate crime whether it was racially motivated or motivated due to the guy's sex addiction.

If you ask Trump if he 'loves women' will he say 'no, I'm a sexist misogynist and have no respect for them'? Of course he won't. When he says he 'loves women' he may even believe it to be true but objectively is it?

This shooter... He may say it's his sex addiction but what is it about women he finds their life and value so disposable? So worthless he has zero issue in shooting them dead for his problem?

Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?

He may not think he's racist, but deep down he probably harbours a prejudice in the way he thinks Asians and/or women have little value. Racism and sexism is not limited to 'hate'

I'm not sure he saw them as having no value.  While I haven't read up on the latest bits (like sex workers), based on the flow of argument here, it sounds like they were quite valuable to him but he hated himself for it, so he removed the temptation by killing them.  Kinda like flushing your drugs to try to get clean.  Except the drug was other people who did not deserve to die.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 21, 2021, 06:20:03 AM
Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?
I overlooked this part of your quote earlier, just noticed it when Lorddave replied. The illicit massage parlor industry in the US is primarily made up of Asian women workers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 21, 2021, 10:07:51 AM
Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?
I overlooked this part of your quote earlier, just noticed it when Lorddave replied. The illicit massage parlor industry in the US is primarily made up of Asian women workers.

I haven't quite kept up with this particular incident since I've been unclear about whether this is a racist thing or a misogyny thing.

I also don't know if the news has been very forthright about Asian massage parlors.  Here's how it is in Vegas.  I assume it's similar elsewhere.  In the part of town where all the Asian businesses are clustered there's a ridiculous amount of massage parlors, it's like convenience stores and Starbuck's in this part of town.  It's an open secret that these places where prostitutes work.  It's also assumed that a lot of them got there by human trafficking. 

So depending on this guy's situation it is entirely possible that the easiest access he had to prostitutes were all Asian.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 21, 2021, 10:23:32 AM
Brothels pretending to be massage parlors are a thing in Florida, too. They're all mostly Asian women, and trafficking is an issue.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on March 21, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
I think that's the case pretty much across the US.  Human trafficking isn't something that a single store owner just decides to start doing on their own, it's an organized system that's got it's hooks into pretty much every community at this point. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 21, 2021, 11:25:18 AM
Another thing.... Surely the sex industry isn't limited to Asian women. Did he only target the ones that had Asian workers?
I overlooked this part of your quote earlier, just noticed it when Lorddave replied. The illicit massage parlor industry in the US is primarily made up of Asian women workers.

I haven't quite kept up with this particular incident since I've been unclear about whether this is a racist thing or a misogyny thing.

I also don't know if the news has been very forthright about Asian massage parlors.  Here's how it is in Vegas.  I assume it's similar elsewhere.  In the part of town where all the Asian businesses are clustered there's a ridiculous amount of massage parlors, it's like convenience stores and Starbuck's in this part of town.  It's an open secret that these places where prostitutes work.  It's also assumed that a lot of them got there by human trafficking. 

So depending on this guy's situation it is entirely possible that the easiest access he had to prostitutes were all Asian.
Everyone in New England that watches football or knows someone that watches football was hit over the head with the whole massage-parlor-and-brothel thing right before the last Superbowl the Patriots won. The team owner famously got busted leaving one of those places, and since it was getting headlines, there were naturally other stories that took a deeper dive into the human trafficking part of the story and how it disproportionately affects Asian women.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 22, 2021, 05:22:54 AM
You guys take your lead from Tucker Carlson. I'll take mine by people like this



I think she's quite on point
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 23, 2021, 07:04:40 AM
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/colorado-king-soopers-shooting/index.html

Quote
Colorado incident is seventh mass shooting in US in past 7 days

Monday's mass shooting at a supermarket in Boulder, Colorado, comes less than a week after eight people were killed in a series of attacks on spas in Atlanta.

The two incidents are likely to spur discussion about gun control legislation in the United States, where firearm deaths are tragically common. They are also among at least seven mass shootings in the past week across the US -- including three incidents on Saturday alone.

Atlanta, March 16: Eight people, including six Asian women, were killed when a White gunman stormed three spas, police said.

Stockton, California, March 17: Five people who were preparing a vigil in Stockton, in California's Central Valley, were shot in a drive-by shooting, the San Joaquin Sheriff's Department said. None had life-threatening injuries.
   
Gresham, Oregon, March 18: Four victims were taken to the hospital after a shooting in the city east of Portland, police said in an initial report on Twitter.
   
Houston, March 20: Five people were shot after a disturbance inside a club, according to police. One was in critical condition after being shot in the neck, the rest were in stable condition, according to CNN affiliate KPRC.
   
Dallas, March 20: Eight people were shot by an unknown assailant, one of whom died, according to police.
   
Philadelphia, March 20: One person was killed and another five were injured during a shooting at an illegal party, CNN affiliate KYW reported. "There were at least 150 people in there that fled and believed they had to flee for their lives,” Philadelphia Police Commissioner Danielle Outlaw said.
   
Boulder, Colorado, March 22: Ten people, including a Boulder police officer, were killed in a shooting at the King Soopers supermarket, according to police.

I didn't realize there had been so many this week.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 23, 2021, 07:48:09 AM
It's been very quiet on the mass shooting front for the last year, I assume from covid lockdowns.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 23, 2021, 07:58:31 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/23/boulder-shooting-live-updates/

"Law enforcement officials said the suspect, Ahmad Al Issa..."

Okay...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 23, 2021, 08:18:31 AM
a middle eastern terrorist?
i'm actually surprised.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 23, 2021, 08:19:19 AM
It's very quaint.  Of course all we know is his name.  Totally possible it isn't a radical Islam thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 23, 2021, 09:11:28 AM
well
if he was a white guy i would assume he was "having a bad day".

since he's brown, i'll expect all fox "news" and co to tell everyone to buy guns and "politicize" this around "brown-man-bad".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 23, 2021, 10:03:36 AM
It's very quaint.  Of course all we know is his name.  Totally possible it isn't a radical Islam thing.

Apparently Facebook has scrubbed his profile.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on March 23, 2021, 11:55:13 AM
It's very quaint.  Of course all we know is his name.  Totally possible it isn't a radical Islam thing.

Apparently Facebook has scrubbed his profile.

As they do with any mass shooting suspect.

I see the right wing websites are all over that like it's something sinister and not policy they have followed for the last dozen shooters with racist/conspiracy/hate speech all over it.  They do this for right wing or left wing terrorists.  Or in this guys case, a mix of both?

It's interesting how pretty much all the right wing websites say "scrubbed" while the rest say "taken down". Shows how language is used to alter perceptions.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 23, 2021, 12:01:25 PM
"Cancelled"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 23, 2021, 01:23:15 PM
So for these victims we have police 'promising justice' and the president calling for flags to be flown at half mast to honour the victims. All well and good but when the victims are mainly coloured people from a white shooter it's 'he was having a bad day'

Any wonder why coloured people feel like 2nd class citizens and say there is racism?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 23, 2021, 01:55:14 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/boulder-shooting-suspect-ahmad-al-aliwi-alissa-what-we-know

So far it doesn't look like a radical Islam thing.  The guy just seems like a violent asshole.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 23, 2021, 03:46:29 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/boulder-shooting-suspect-ahmad-al-aliwi-alissa-what-we-know

So far it doesn't look like a radical Islam thing.  The guy just seems like a violent asshole.

They should have prosecuted him for assault when he beat another guy up when he was 18.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 23, 2021, 03:59:32 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/boulder-shooting-suspect-ahmad-al-aliwi-alissa-what-we-know

So far it doesn't look like a radical Islam thing.  The guy just seems like a violent asshole.

They should have prosecuted him for assault when he beat another guy up when he was 18.

This seems like a mass shooting that well implemented red flag gun laws would have prevented.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on March 23, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Is tgg he at a joke or real post? Colorado now has red flag law.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 23, 2021, 05:57:05 PM
Not a joke. I was not aware of that. I guess his offences weren't regarded as red flags.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 23, 2021, 06:00:29 PM
I wonder if you have to be convicted of something to trigger the red flag law?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on March 23, 2021, 06:46:48 PM
No. Family and house mates can do it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 24, 2021, 08:50:38 AM
It seems fine for the court of public opinion to charge anyone with an Islamic sounding name of terrorism whenever they murder people - but the moment a 'white guy' does something, it's 'oh hes having a bad day' or 'he had a mental breakdown/alcohol/drugs etc' or some other washing away the motive
I wanted to re-examine this observation, which turns out to be just more foolishness from the king of foolishness, given the recent event in Colorado.

The media did everything they they could to make the shooter white.

Shitler at work again.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 24, 2021, 03:17:33 PM
I didnt see or hear that

You have some lcips?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 26, 2021, 03:34:27 AM
The initial reports from MSM on the Boulder, CO shooting all focused on the fact that police had led a guy, "who looked white," (CNN) out of the supermarket.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Eren on March 26, 2021, 03:42:41 AM
The initial reports from MSM on the Boulder, CO shooting all focused on the fact that police had led a guy, "who looked white," (CNN) out of the supermarket.

I wonder why they were so concerned with the shooters race?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 27, 2021, 03:16:58 AM
The initial reports from MSM on the Boulder, CO shooting all focused on the fact that police had led a guy, "who looked white," (CNN) out of the supermarket.

I wonder why they were so concerned with the shooters race?

A very good question. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 27, 2021, 10:36:15 AM
https://twitter.com/cjwerleman/status/1374117636271861763?s=20
Quote
The suspected gunman in the Boulder, Colorado mass shooting is a white guy. Seven reported dead!

Cue “mental issues,” “bad day,” “parking dispute,” or anything else other than what he most likely is - a white domestic terrorist.

It was a pretty common take on Twitter when the image of Ahmad al-Issa being led away by police was released. The media and Twitter are completely intertwined.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 27, 2021, 12:51:59 PM
Soooo stereotyping is a thing and is your issue that this is what white people are sterotyped as?   Or that the stereotype is correct but the media was worng and jumped the gun?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on March 27, 2021, 11:20:40 PM
I remember when the press used to focus on the important stuff, like whether the perpetrators played Doom, listened to Marilyn Manson or liked Quentin Tarantino.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on March 28, 2021, 05:48:02 AM
I remember when the press used to focus on the important stuff, like whether the perpetrators played Doom, listened to Marilyn Manson or liked Quentin Tarantino.

I checked all three boxes. Am I a shooter?  :(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 28, 2021, 06:04:12 AM
I remember when the press used to focus on the important stuff, like whether the perpetrators played Doom, listened to Marilyn Manson or liked Quentin Tarantino.

I checked all three boxes. Am I a shooter?  :(

Not yet. But your admission has put you on a watch list
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 08, 2021, 05:05:27 AM
Here we go again...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/08/us/york-county-south-carolina-mass-shooting/index.html
Quote
At least five people are dead after what authorities are calling a "case of a mass shooting" at a home in York County, South Carolina.
The victims of the Wednesday evening shooting near Rock Hill included a doctor, his wife and their two grandchildren, the York County Sheriff's Office said in a tweet. The family was "very prominent and very well known" in the county, York County Sheriff spokesman Trent Faris said.
Police were called to the scene following reports of a shooting at 4:45 p.m.

"Dr. Robert Lesslie & his wife, Barbara Lesslie were both found in the home & died as a result of gunshot wounds, as well as their 2 grandchildren. James Lewis of Gastonia, was working at the home & died from gunshot wounds," the sheriff's office said.

The grandchildren were ages 5 and 9, according to the York County Coroner's Office.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 08, 2021, 05:11:58 AM
That sucks.


But
But
In terms of "mass"
Wiping a family off the face of the earth is on the same level as indescriminately killing at a mall school fair ground?


not saying gun control against a person of violence or dom abuse shouldnt be a thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 08, 2021, 05:30:41 AM
That sucks.
Indeed it does :(

Quote
But
But
In terms of "mass"
Wiping a family off the face of the earth is on the same level as indescriminately killing at a mall school fair ground?
Show me where I said that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 08, 2021, 05:34:59 AM
Unfortunately, I think mass shootings will increase -- yes, somehow increase more than they already were in this whack country -- due to the strife caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Lots of people are struggling and lots of people are scared and lots of people are pissed.

Frustration, fear, and anger are naturally going to lead to more shooting incidents...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 08, 2021, 05:37:40 AM
That sucks.
Indeed it does :(

Quote
But
But
In terms of "mass"
Wiping a family off the face of the earth is on the same level as indescriminately killing at a mall school fair ground?
Show me where I said that.

No
Not that you said it.
But is it a mass shootings?
They havent been personal.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 08, 2021, 05:44:39 AM
That sucks.
Indeed it does :(

Quote
But
But
In terms of "mass"
Wiping a family off the face of the earth is on the same level as indescriminately killing at a mall school fair ground?
Show me where I said that.

No
Not that you said it.
But is it a mass shootings?
They havent been personal.
Quote
At least five people are dead after what authorities are calling a "case of a mass shooting" at a home in York County, South Carolina.
Seems it is being considered a mass shooting, yes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 08, 2021, 06:10:47 AM
A mass shooting is defined as three or more people being killed in an incident of gun violence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 08, 2021, 06:25:59 AM
A mass shooting is defined as three or more people being killed in an incident of gun violence.

I think there are a few caviets.

If it was done as part of a gang warfare, not a mass shooting event

Also, if a family member blows away his family, no matter how many, it's not a 'mass shooting'

At least in terms of the legal definition.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 08, 2021, 07:45:21 AM
Unfortunately, I think mass shootings will increase -- yes, somehow increase more than they already were in this whack country -- due to the strife caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Lots of people are struggling and lots of people are scared and lots of people are pissed.

Frustration, fear, and anger are naturally going to lead to more shooting incidents...

Plus so many people bought more guns in the past year, and enough ammo to fight a zombie apocalypse. It's like they're all just waiting for the chance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 08, 2021, 08:41:18 AM
Unfortunately, I think mass shootings will increase -- yes, somehow increase more than they already were in this whack country -- due to the strife caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Lots of people are struggling and lots of people are scared and lots of people are pissed.

Frustration, fear, and anger are naturally going to lead to more shooting incidents...

And of course, having lots of guns. You can't shoot someone no matter how angry you are if you're not holding a gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 08, 2021, 02:41:41 PM
And again
https://www.kbtx.com/2021/04/08/active-police-situation-at-bryan-business/
Quote
BRYAN, Texas (KBTX) - Police confirm multiple people were shot during an incident Thursday afternoon at Kent Moore Cabinets in Bryan. The suspect in that shooting remains at large and an active manhunt is underway.

There is still an active police situation off FM 2818 at Stone City Drive as law enforcement responds to the scene. Sources tell KBTX that more than six people were injured, and several are in critical condition.

Fucking shit, I wish people would stop doing this. It's going to start reflecting poorly on America sooner or later.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 08, 2021, 02:51:33 PM
Ill jump the gun and say disgruntled employee
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: FE4 on April 08, 2021, 03:24:15 PM
we are having shootings in oregon right now,wish me luck so i dont become a victum
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Gumby on April 09, 2021, 04:00:40 AM
And again
https://www.kbtx.com/2021/04/08/active-police-situation-at-bryan-business/
Quote
BRYAN, Texas (KBTX) - Police confirm multiple people were shot during an incident Thursday afternoon at Kent Moore Cabinets in Bryan. The suspect in that shooting remains at large and an active manhunt is underway.

There is still an active police situation off FM 2818 at Stone City Drive as law enforcement responds to the scene. Sources tell KBTX that more than six people were injured, and several are in critical condition.

Fucking shit, I wish people would stop doing this. It's going to start reflecting poorly on America sooner or later.

Start? Started long time ago.  Mass shootings don't surprise foreigners... we just don't understand why nothing is done to stop it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 09, 2021, 08:25:14 AM
And again
https://www.kbtx.com/2021/04/08/active-police-situation-at-bryan-business/
Quote
BRYAN, Texas (KBTX) - Police confirm multiple people were shot during an incident Thursday afternoon at Kent Moore Cabinets in Bryan. The suspect in that shooting remains at large and an active manhunt is underway.

There is still an active police situation off FM 2818 at Stone City Drive as law enforcement responds to the scene. Sources tell KBTX that more than six people were injured, and several are in critical condition.

Fucking shit, I wish people would stop doing this. It's going to start reflecting poorly on America sooner or later.

Start? Started long time ago.  Mass shootings don't surprise foreigners... we just don't understand why nothing is done to stop it.

Doing nothing?  We're very quick to offer thoughts and prayers.  They're just not all that effective. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 09, 2021, 08:47:15 AM
And of course, having lots of guns. You can't shoot someone no matter how angry you are if you're not holding a gun.

I'm honestly indifferent towards gun ownership. I don't own a gun and I don't want to. I don't care if you do.

I'm very neutral about this one because I think it's a very, very complex issue that doesn't simply boil down to "guns = bad" or "muh freedoms!"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 09, 2021, 09:03:36 AM
Start? Started long time ago.  Mass shootings don't surprise foreigners... we just don't understand why nothing is done to stop it.
I guess I should have used the green text trick.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 09, 2021, 10:55:57 AM
And of course, having lots of guns. You can't shoot someone no matter how angry you are if you're not holding a gun.

I'm honestly indifferent towards gun ownership. I don't own a gun and I don't want to. I don't care if you do.

I'm very neutral about this one because I think it's a very, very complex issue that doesn't simply boil down to "guns = bad" or "muh freedoms!"

Would you care if your neighbour was a crazy person and had lots of guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 09, 2021, 02:02:45 PM
And of course, having lots of guns. You can't shoot someone no matter how angry you are if you're not holding a gun.

I'm honestly indifferent towards gun ownership. I don't own a gun and I don't want to. I don't care if you do.

I'm very neutral about this one because I think it's a very, very complex issue that doesn't simply boil down to "guns = bad" or "muh freedoms!"

I don't think it's very complex at all, in fact is is very simple.  More guns means more shootings.  Intentional and accidental.  The stats bear this out, from homicides to accidental shootings to suicides by guns. 

Give every American a box of grenades and I can guarantee death by grenade is going to go up very, very fast.

It's not a value judgment on if guns are evil or not, it's just a matter of lots of them means lots more opportunities for them to be used and misused.  Countries with lots of cars have more pedestrian deaths too.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 10, 2021, 05:48:33 AM
By that logic, we should ban cars, right? In societies with lots of cars like the U.S., there are a lot of car accidents.

Not to mention all the people that don't wear seatbelts, speed, drive intoxicated (i.e., alcohol, marijuana, etc.), etc.

Oh, and we should ban spoons while we're at it. They make people fat. ::)

Look, when I say I don't really care about gun ownership, I mean I really don't care. I want people to be able to own them though. People like you and me to whom it has never occurred to shoot someone shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of others' actions.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 10, 2021, 05:50:03 AM
Would you care if your neighbour was a crazy person and had lots of guns?

Dude, I live in the American Midwest. My neighbors are crazy person who own a lot of guns.

They're cool. I've never had any issues getting along with any of them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on April 10, 2021, 07:11:03 AM
They're cool. I've never had any issues getting along with any of them.
Probably for the best.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 10, 2021, 07:31:30 AM
By that logic, we should ban cars, right? In societies with lots of cars like the U.S., there are a lot of car accidents.

Not to mention all the people that don't wear seatbelts, speed, drive intoxicated (i.e., alcohol, marijuana, etc.), etc.

Oh, and we should ban spoons while we're at it. They make people fat. ::)

Look, when I say I don't really care about gun ownership, I mean I really don't care. I want people to be able to own them though. People like you and me to whom it has never occurred to shoot someone shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of others' actions.
.
That argument is old.

One
Cars have extreme licensing and safety and regulation vs guns
So bring it on if you want to make them equal


Two
Cars aee dssigned for travel.
Dying is a side effect of improper use.
Guns are desgined to kill.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 10, 2021, 09:53:43 AM
By that logic, we should ban cars, right? In societies with lots of cars like the U.S., there are a lot of car accidents.

Not to mention all the people that don't wear seatbelts, speed, drive intoxicated (i.e., alcohol, marijuana, etc.), etc.

Oh, and we should ban spoons while we're at it. They make people fat. ::)

Look, when I say I don't really care about gun ownership, I mean I really don't care. I want people to be able to own them though. People like you and me to whom it has never occurred to shoot someone shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of others' actions.

I never said we should ban cars. What I said was this...

"Countries with lots of cars have more pedestrian deaths too."

It's simple logic.  More guns means more deaths by guns. More cars means more deaths by cars.

I literally said it wasn't a value judgment on guns, I'm not trying to take yours away.

Take away guns or cars and deaths by them go down which is good, but it will have other negative effects. Deciding how these balance determines what we should do.

If you want to argue that owning lots of guns adds more benefit to society than not having lots of guns, go ahead and make it. But I don't see that as a winning argument.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 10, 2021, 01:27:03 PM
By that logic, we should ban cars, right? In societies with lots of cars like the U.S., there are a lot of car accidents.

Not to mention all the people that don't wear seatbelts, speed, drive intoxicated (i.e., alcohol, marijuana, etc.), etc.

Oh, and we should ban spoons while we're at it. They make people fat. ::)

Look, when I say I don't really care about gun ownership, I mean I really don't care. I want people to be able to own them though. People like you and me to whom it has never occurred to shoot someone shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of others' actions.

Driving a car is a privilege, not a right.  This privilege has to be earned and it can be revoked.  They can also preemptively prevent you from driving a car for any number of reasons.

Firearms are regarded as a right though.  Even though they really shouldn't be.  Seriously, read the second amendment and the history behind it.  It wasn't meant to give everyone the right to own a gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 10, 2021, 01:36:54 PM
Love when someone says "my 2ndA!"
And i follow it with "what is the 2ndA?"
And their only repsonse is "soyboy".
Their talking points never live past the 1st rebuttal
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 11, 2021, 05:54:54 AM
That argument is old.

One
Cars have extreme licensing and safety and regulation vs guns
So bring it on if you want to make them equal


Two
Cars aee dssigned for travel.
Dying is a side effect of improper use.
Guns are desgined to kill.

Most 16-year-olds can wing their driving tests and get their license and never have to worry about it again. I think getting and owning guns is a lil' more involved of a process.

Cars are also designed for racing. Guns are designed to kill, sure, but I'm thinking about shooting wild game.

What's your point?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 11, 2021, 05:56:58 AM
Firearms are regarded as a right though.  Even though they really shouldn't be.  Seriously, read the second amendment and the history behind it.  It wasn't meant to give everyone the right to own a gun.

Sure, and the Constitution wasn't meant to give women and black people the right to vote or even be legally considered people. We decided that was horseshit.

And there's the Electoral College, which is rather undemocratic. The Founding Fathers probably thought most of us were buffoons and wanted to buffer against the actual rule of the people.

Regardless of the intent of the 2A, I quite like the interpretation where common people get to own firearms to protect themselves with, go hunting with, or just collect for sheer interest. It's adds a bit of balance to the equation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 11, 2021, 05:59:33 AM
I never said we should ban cars. What I said was this...

"Countries with lots of cars have more pedestrian deaths too."

Yes, and your logic very clearly implies that, in order to reduce potential incidents (e.g., pedestrian deaths), we should reduce the amount of cars.

But that doesn't really address the root issues of reckless driving, like improper testing, rampant alcoholism, etc.

Much like firearms -- reducing the amount of firearms in circulation does little to actually address the root issues of gun violence, like mental health issues.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 11, 2021, 06:10:02 AM
Then we should be devoting resources to monthly psych evals, all firings and breakups reported to fbi, and people with hisorty of dom violence and stalking not allowed to own.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 11, 2021, 06:13:42 AM
Then we should be devoting resources to monthly psych evals, all firings and breakups reported to fbi, and people with hisorty of dom violence and stalking not allowed to own.

I'd agree that there should be a greater degree of oversight with regards to the mental health of gun owners.

I like wait-times. They help prevent senseless anger-killings.

I think psychological evaluations may be useful, if not difficult to consistently and appropriately implement. Which evaluation should we use? Who will administer it?

I'd agree that domestic violence and stalking should fall under crimes that bar one from gun ownership. If the crime involves premediated violence or endangerment, no gun for you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 11, 2021, 06:23:02 AM
I never said we should ban cars. What I said was this...

"Countries with lots of cars have more pedestrian deaths too."

Yes, and your logic very clearly implies that, in order to reduce potential incidents (e.g., pedestrian deaths), we should reduce the amount of cars.

Well that's obvious.  How is it controversial to state that less things that cause death will cause less death?  I'm not sure what you are arguing against here.

If your primary goal is to reduce deaths by cars, removing cars is the obvious solution. How could this not be the case?

But that doesn't really address the root issues of reckless driving, like improper testing, rampant alcoholism, etc.

It actually would address the effects of all those issues, no cars means no more reckless driving, no more improper testing, no more deaths by drunk driving. No more accidental deaths. No more suicide by car.

Removing cars is the best way to reduce deaths by cars. Not that I am not sayign we should get rid of cars, I am saying that getting rid of cars would reduce car-related deaths. This isn't debatable.

Much like firearms -- reducing the amount of firearms in circulation does little to actually address the root issues of gun violence, like mental health issues.

Removing guns certainly would address the issue of gun violence. How does one be violent with a gun if they don't have one?

Read what I'm saying. I am not claiming that removing guns is the only solution or the best solution or that we should start trying to confenscate them with home raids and take your guns from your cold dead hands. I'm simply saying that lots of guns leads to lots of gun deaths. Reducing the number of guns certainly is a part of the solution, and mental health issues and violence is another part.

Less guns means less death by guns. What is hard to understand here?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 12, 2021, 03:47:16 AM
By that logic, we should ban cars, right? In societies with lots of cars like the U.S., there are a lot of car accidents.

Not to mention all the people that don't wear seatbelts, speed, drive intoxicated (i.e., alcohol, marijuana, etc.), etc.

Oh, and we should ban spoons while we're at it. They make people fat. ::)

Look, when I say I don't really care about gun ownership, I mean I really don't care. I want people to be able to own them though. People like you and me to whom it has never occurred to shoot someone shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of others' actions.

Driving a car is a privilege, not a right.  This privilege has to be earned and it can be revoked.  They can also preemptively prevent you from driving a car for any number of reasons.

Firearms are regarded as a right though.  Even though they really shouldn't be.  Seriously, read the second amendment and the history behind it.  It wasn't meant to give everyone the right to own a gun.
You are correct. The 2nd Amendment was not written to give everyone the right to own a gun.

It was written to prevent the government from taking that right away.

A person is naturally born with the ability to communicate and act in defense of themselves.

Those processes are natural.

What is unnatural is to attempt to restrict those natural processes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 12, 2021, 04:44:35 AM


You are correct. The 2nd Amendment was not written to give everyone the right to own a gun.

It was written to prevent the government from taking that right away.

A person is naturally born with the ability to communicate and act in defense of themselves.

Those processes are natural.

What is unnatural is to attempt to restrict those natural processes.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed



So, no

How is a state "free"?



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”




So unless you have these conditions in the 1stA (blm or georgia) then you are not being infringed upon.
And you can either vote, rally to vote, or throw a tantrum like a baby and get your gun.
If youve seriously exhausted all other measures and you think gunning up is the only option, youre mentally derranged and shouldnt own a gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 12, 2021, 08:12:37 AM
I never said we should ban cars. What I said was this...

"Countries with lots of cars have more pedestrian deaths too."

Yes, and your logic very clearly implies that, in order to reduce potential incidents (e.g., pedestrian deaths), we should reduce the amount of cars.

Well that's obvious.  How is it controversial to state that less things that cause death will cause less death?  I'm not sure what you are arguing against here.

If your primary goal is to reduce deaths by cars, removing cars is the obvious solution. How could this not be the case?

But that doesn't really address the root issues of reckless driving, like improper testing, rampant alcoholism, etc.

It actually would address the effects of all those issues, no cars means no more reckless driving, no more improper testing, no more deaths by drunk driving. No more accidental deaths. No more suicide by car.

Removing cars is the best way to reduce deaths by cars. Not that I am not sayign we should get rid of cars, I am saying that getting rid of cars would reduce car-related deaths. This isn't debatable.

Much like firearms -- reducing the amount of firearms in circulation does little to actually address the root issues of gun violence, like mental health issues.

Removing guns certainly would address the issue of gun violence. How does one be violent with a gun if they don't have one?

Read what I'm saying. I am not claiming that removing guns is the only solution or the best solution or that we should start trying to confenscate them with home raids and take your guns from your cold dead hands. I'm simply saying that lots of guns leads to lots of gun deaths. Reducing the number of guns certainly is a part of the solution, and mental health issues and violence is another part.

Less guns means less death by guns. What is hard to understand here?

whooosh
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 12, 2021, 09:38:17 AM
whooosh

All righty then, guess we're done here. :D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 12, 2021, 01:44:15 PM
A person is naturally born with the ability to communicate and act in defense of themselves.

Those processes are natural.

What is unnatural is to attempt to restrict those natural processes.

Guns aren't natural.
Also also: Humans stopped being natural sometime around the invention of fire.  Cooking food isn't natural.

And while babies can communicate on a very very basic level "cry= something wrong" anything more complex must be taught.  They sure as hell can't defend themselves tho.  Not until they learn to.

So its more accurate to say "humans have the natural ability to learn".

And finally:
How does a gun defend you against say.... A missile?  You are already defenseless.  You can be killed without even being able to fire off a shot.  What you want is to feel like you can fight someone as weak as you and win.  What you want is to know that you could kill someone easily, assuming you had enough time.  Its not about stopping tyrany.  War has advanced too much for that.  You just need to be able to stop your neighbor.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 12, 2021, 02:52:17 PM
I've been doing some reading on the history of gun rights and I'm starting to see a pattern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote
In the slave states, the militia was available for military operations, but its biggest function was to police the slaves.

Quote
According to Pennsylvania attorney Anthony Picadio, the Southern slave states would never have ratified the Second Amendment if it had been understood as creating an individual right to own firearms because of their fear of arming free blacks, hence the emphasis on the phrase "well regulated Militia", introducing the Second Amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank

Quote
The case arose from the hotly-disputed 1872 Louisiana gubernatorial election and the subsequent Colfax massacre, in which dozens of black people and three white people were killed. Federal charges were brought against several white insurgents under the Enforcement Act of 1870, which prohibited two or more people from conspiring to deprive anyone of their constitutional rights. Charges included hindering the freedmen's First Amendment right to freely assemble and their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

In his majority opinion, Chief Justice Morrison Waite overturned the convictions of the defendants, holding that the plaintiffs had to rely on state courts for protection. Waite ruled that neither the First Amendment nor the Second Amendment applied to the actions of state governments or to individuals. He further ruled that the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applied to the actions of state governments, but not to individuals. The decision left African Americans in the South at the mercy of increasingly hostile state governments dominated by white Democratic legislatures, and allowed groups such as the Ku Klux Klan to continue to use paramilitary force to suppress black voting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Quote
The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill that repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after Republican assemblyman Don Mulford, and signed into law by governor of California Ronald Reagan, the bill was crafted with the goal of disarming members of the Black Panther Party who were lawfully conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods, in what would later be termed copwatching.[1][2] They garnered national attention after Black Panthers members, bearing arms, marched upon the California State Capitol to protest the bill.[3][4][5]

It seems to me that this right to bear arms doesn't apply so much when it comes to black people.

I believe the only way we're going to get sensible gun control laws is if black people en masse start doing the same cosplay that the Oathkeepers engage in.  For some strange reason this is the only time when gun control is taken seriously.  One of life's great mysteries I guess.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 12, 2021, 03:08:08 PM
haha ya

NRA was not founded on gun rights.
It was because after the war, some guys wanted to increase proficiency and started competing in marksmanship contests.
https://www.alternativeradio.org/products/smyf001/

chappelle 3:25 to 3:46


all for taking guns to the capitol unless its the panthers.
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496514
(and i wuold've included jan 06, but technically the guns were confiscated beforehand)


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/12/tennessee-school-shooting-481039

The mass shooting du jour.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 12, 2021, 03:23:43 PM
now is not the time to politicize.
it's time to offer prayers and thoughts.
the senators and house don't have any mechanism to solve such complex issues


...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 12, 2021, 03:29:52 PM
You guys have mass shootings on a near daily basis. What a shit hole joke of a country

Freedom my arse >:(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on April 13, 2021, 12:39:44 AM
now is not the time to politicize.
it's time to offer prayers and thoughts.
the senators and house don't have any mechanism to solve such complex issues


...

Never is the time according to some.  Is there a counter somewhere that resets after every shooting? How long is the allocated thoughts and prayer time with no one getting shot before politicians can discuss what to do about it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 01:42:16 AM
Trump was gping to run a the country like a business.

0days without a mass shooting.
0days without a sexual/ racial harassment in the workplace.

Right.....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 04:03:04 AM
A person is naturally born with the ability to communicate and act in defense of themselves.

Those processes are natural.

What is unnatural is to attempt to restrict those natural processes.

Guns aren't natural.
Also also: Humans stopped being natural sometime around the invention of fire.  Cooking food isn't natural.

And while babies can communicate on a very very basic level "cry= something wrong" anything more complex must be taught.  They sure as hell can't defend themselves tho.  Not until they learn to.

So its more accurate to say "humans have the natural ability to learn".

And finally:
How does a gun defend you against say.... A missile?  You are already defenseless.  You can be killed without even being able to fire off a shot.  What you want is to feel like you can fight someone as weak as you and win.  What you want is to know that you could kill someone easily, assuming you had enough time.  Its not about stopping tyrany.  War has advanced too much for that.  You just need to be able to stop your neighbor.
Communication and defense become more sophisticated as people mature, no question. Babies though act in defense, however ineffective, no doubt.

At issue is the natural process. These processes are endowed by nature. Those who argue against the processes argue against nature.

So, you people arguing against the Bill of Rights as written in the US Constitution are anti-science.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 04:32:21 AM
As i said


Let me know.when YOUR freedoms are being taken away
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on April 13, 2021, 04:42:41 AM
Americans are afraid.  That's why they want guns.  What are they afraid of? 

You guessed it,  ....   drumroll ....   other Americans with guns.   

I can't see any way out of the loop.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 04:52:49 AM
As i said


Let me know.when YOUR freedoms are being taken away
The discussion isn't about freedom and technically freedom isn't free or the sense of being free.

It is the issue of natural actions/reactions and that is what is codified in what is called the Bill of Rights.

Natural processes of humanity. Infringement, by the government, upon those natural processes is taking place everyday of our lives.

No doubt.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 13, 2021, 04:56:03 AM
The discussion isn't about freedom and technically freedom isn't free or the sense of being free.

It is the issue of natural actions/reactions and that is what is codified in what is called the Bill of Rights.

Natural processes of humanity. Infringement, by the government, upon those natural processes is taking place everyday of our lives.

No doubt.

WISHTOLAUGH's out of line usually, but I agree with him here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 05:05:15 AM
As i said


Let me know.when YOUR freedoms are being taken away
The discussion isn't about freedom and technically freedom isn't free or the sense of being free.

It is the issue of natural actions/reactions and that is what is codified in what is called the Bill of Rights.

Natural processes of humanity. Infringement, by the government, upon those natural processes is taking place everyday of our lives.

No doubt.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”






Unless youre blm let me know how yohr freedoms are being taken away
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 13, 2021, 05:07:10 AM
Let me know.when YOUR freedoms are being taken away

That's easy for me -- downsides of being gay.

But it's been getting a lot better in the last few years. Seriously, these younger people are really, really on their A-game when it comes to treating us like anyone else, which I greatly appreciate. If only the policies would keep up...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 05:09:14 AM
Let me know.when YOUR freedoms are being taken away

That's easy for me -- downsides of being gay.

But it's been getting a lot better in the last few years. Seriously, these younger people are really, really on their A-game when it comes to treating us like anyone else, which I greatly appreciate. If only the policies would keep up...
What policies?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jamie on April 13, 2021, 05:16:58 AM
What policies?

Just look to Tennessee (https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/04/12/lgbt-chamber-pritzker-conventions.html) right now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 05:33:29 AM
What policies?

Just look to Tennessee (https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/04/12/lgbt-chamber-pritzker-conventions.html) right now.
There is a policy in Tennessee that has to do with gay people?

ETA: I could not access the article you linked, so I looked it up elsewhere.

I fail to see how the laws regarding sexual harassment in the workplace do not already address all the issues regarding all of these complaints.

It simply seems to me people wanting deferential treatment, which equates to different treatment, which is antithetical to the entire concept of meritocracy at work.

Put simply, while at work, focus on the work at hand and not all the other crap which has no business at work in the first place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 13, 2021, 06:13:56 AM
What policies?

Just look to Tennessee (https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/04/12/lgbt-chamber-pritzker-conventions.html) right now.
There is a policy in Tennessee that has to do with gay people?

ETA: I could not access the article you linked, so I looked it up elsewhere.

I fail to see how the laws regarding sexual harassment in the workplace do not already address all the issues regarding all of these complaints.

It simply seems to me people wanting deferential treatment, which equates to different treatment, which is antithetical to the entire concept of meritocracy at work.

Put simply, while at work, focus on the work at hand and not all the other crap which has no business at work in the first place.

From the article -

Quote
a law Lee signed last month that requires athletes at public middle and high schools to play on the team that aligns with their sex as determined at birth. (Lee, in a statement, has said the law will "preserve women's athletics and ensure fair competition.")

It's got nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 06:41:52 AM
What policies?

Just look to Tennessee (https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/04/12/lgbt-chamber-pritzker-conventions.html) right now.
There is a policy in Tennessee that has to do with gay people?

ETA: I could not access the article you linked, so I looked it up elsewhere.

I fail to see how the laws regarding sexual harassment in the workplace do not already address all the issues regarding all of these complaints.

It simply seems to me people wanting deferential treatment, which equates to different treatment, which is antithetical to the entire concept of meritocracy at work.

Put simply, while at work, focus on the work at hand and not all the other crap which has no business at work in the first place.

From the article -

Quote
a law Lee signed last month that requires athletes at public middle and high schools to play on the team that aligns with their sex as determined at birth. (Lee, in a statement, has said the law will "preserve women's athletics and ensure fair competition.")

It's got nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Well, I see it has nothing to do with work.

It has to do with sports.

I fail to see how having male and female sports is discriminatory.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 06:52:36 AM
As i said


Let me know.when YOUR freedoms are being taken away
The discussion isn't about freedom and technically freedom isn't free or the sense of being free.

It is the issue of natural actions/reactions and that is what is codified in what is called the Bill of Rights.

Natural processes of humanity. Infringement, by the government, upon those natural processes is taking place everyday of our lives.

No doubt.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”






Unless youre blm let me know how yohr freedoms are being taken away


Sooo?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on April 13, 2021, 06:58:03 AM
Americans are afraid.  That's why they want guns.  What are they afraid of? 

You guessed it,  ....   drumroll ....   other Americans with guns.   

I can't see any way out of the loop.
There's always the old Cold War theory of Mutually Assured Destruction.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 07:03:11 AM
It is a good business model - tell people to be afraid of other people.

Every shooting or election fuels more purchasing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 13, 2021, 07:55:19 AM
now is not the time to politicize.
it's time to offer prayers and thoughts.
the senators and house don't have any mechanism to solve such complex issues


...

Never is the time according to some.  Is there a counter somewhere that resets after every shooting? How long is the allocated thoughts and prayer time with no one getting shot before politicians can discuss what to do about it?

One month.  The correct amount of thoughts and prayer time is one month.  Then we'll get right on it.

But as we've never had a month go by without a mass shooting...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on April 13, 2021, 08:43:33 AM
now is not the time to politicize.
it's time to offer prayers and thoughts.
the senators and house don't have any mechanism to solve such complex issues


...

Never is the time according to some.  Is there a counter somewhere that resets after every shooting? How long is the allocated thoughts and prayer time with no one getting shot before politicians can discuss what to do about it?

One month.  The correct amount of thoughts and prayer time is one month.  Then we'll get right on it.

But as we've never had a month go by without a mass shooting...

What if you don’t think about it too much, as it is just a given, like you when the black guy is gunned down by police for having an air freshener in his car and you see “In the US” and just think of course.

And it is obvious that if there’s a god, that fucker doesn’t give a shit either?  So prayer is wasted time crying to an unfeeling abyss/asshole.

Do I then get a free pass to politicise?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 08:49:15 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks the politicians should or would do something about gun violence. Politicians love gun violence. And bomb violence. And missile violence. And sexual violence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 13, 2021, 09:30:02 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks the politicians should or would do something about gun violence. Politicians love gun violence. And bomb violence. And missile violence. And sexual violence.

Because we grant the government a monopoly on violence.  It is literally their job to enforce that monopoly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 13, 2021, 09:40:09 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks the politicians should or would do something about gun violence. Politicians love gun violence. And bomb violence. And missile violence. And sexual violence.

Because we grant the government a monopoly on violence.  It is literally their job to enforce that monopoly.
So, somebody tells me I gotta shoot somebody, my first question is why? It has nothing to do with credentials or bona fides.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 13, 2021, 09:40:56 AM
now is not the time to politicize.
it's time to offer prayers and thoughts.
the senators and house don't have any mechanism to solve such complex issues


...

Never is the time according to some.  Is there a counter somewhere that resets after every shooting? How long is the allocated thoughts and prayer time with no one getting shot before politicians can discuss what to do about it?

One month.  The correct amount of thoughts and prayer time is one month.  Then we'll get right on it.

But as we've never had a month go by without a mass shooting...

What if you don’t think about it too much, as it is just a given, like you when the black guy is gunned down by police for having an air freshener in his car and you see “In the US” and just think of course.

And it is obvious that if there’s a god, that fucker doesn’t give a shit either?  So prayer is wasted time crying to an unfeeling abyss/asshole.

Do I then get a free pass to politicise?

Outrageous!  I'll have you know that the US is the world leader in thoughts and prayers!

And this notion that no one hears yours prayers is just absurd.  The NSA hears your prayers, especially if you own any smart home devices.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 13, 2021, 10:43:21 AM
now is not the time to politicize.
it's time to offer prayers and thoughts.
the senators and house don't have any mechanism to solve such complex issues


...

Never is the time according to some.  Is there a counter somewhere that resets after every shooting? How long is the allocated thoughts and prayer time with no one getting shot before politicians can discuss what to do about it?

One month.  The correct amount of thoughts and prayer time is one month.  Then we'll get right on it.

But as we've never had a month go by without a mass shooting...

What if you don’t think about it too much, as it is just a given, like you when the black guy is gunned down by police for having an air freshener in his car and you see “In the US” and just think of course.

And it is obvious that if there’s a god, that fucker doesn’t give a shit either?  So prayer is wasted time crying to an unfeeling abyss/asshole.

Do I then get a free pass to politicise?

Outrageous!  I'll have you know that the US is the world leader in thoughts and prayers!

And this notion that no one hears yours prayers is just absurd.  The NSA hears your prayers, especially if you own any smart home devices.

America is the nutsack of Satan.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 13, 2021, 11:24:15 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks the politicians should or would do something about gun violence. Politicians love gun violence. And bomb violence. And missile violence. And sexual violence.

Because we grant the government a monopoly on violence.  It is literally their job to enforce that monopoly.

I like that reasoning.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 13, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks the politicians should or would do something about gun violence. Politicians love gun violence. And bomb violence. And missile violence. And sexual violence.

Because we grant the government a monopoly on violence.  It is literally their job to enforce that monopoly.
So, somebody tells me I gotta shoot somebody, my first question is why? It has nothing to do with credentials or bona fides.

That's your takeaway from that statement?

Here's some light reading when you get time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on April 14, 2021, 03:34:47 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks the politicians should or would do something about gun violence. Politicians love gun violence. And bomb violence. And missile violence. And sexual violence.

Because we grant the government a monopoly on violence.  It is literally their job to enforce that monopoly.
So, somebody tells me I gotta shoot somebody, my first question is why? It has nothing to do with credentials or bona fides.

That's your takeaway from that statement?

Here's some light reading when you get time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
I am aware of the concept to which you refer. That concept doesn't eliminate my approach. In fact, in solidifies it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on April 16, 2021, 12:45:17 AM
Oh dear.  And another one has literally gone postal.

US really needs to do something about this.  Screw the gun lobbies, it’s completely out of control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on April 16, 2021, 01:27:07 AM
who could have seen it coming? I'm totally surprised that the us got another mass shooting!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Gumby on April 16, 2021, 01:58:28 AM
who could have seen it coming? I'm totally surprised that the us got another mass shooting!

I strongly believe that every American has the right to own enough guns to murder their fellow citizens in an efficient manner. It's in the Constitution! It's a fundamental liberty that needs to be defended at any cost. Freedom is the cornerstone of the USA. Freedom comes at a cost and there are enough red blooded Patriots ready to sacrifice themselves, to pay the ultimate price for right to murder and be murdered . god bless America!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 16, 2021, 05:30:08 AM
who could have seen it coming? I'm totally surprised that the us got another mass shooting!

I strongly believe that every American has the right to own enough guns to murder their fellow citizens in an efficient manner. It's in the Constitution! It's a fundamental liberty that needs to be defended at any cost. Freedom is the cornerstone of the USA. Freedom comes at a cost and there are enough red blooded Patriots ready to sacrifice themselves, to pay the ultimate price for right to murder and be murdered . god bless America!
See, this time it was you that forgot to use the green text trick ;)

Let's also not overlook the attempted mass shooting (https://www.foxnews.com/us/san-antonio-airport-on-lockdown-police-confirm-shooting) at the San Antonio airport. We almost had a 2fer yesterday.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on April 16, 2021, 06:08:15 AM
Quote
The suspect was taken to a hospital and later pronounced dead. McManus said the gunman had a history of interactions with the police department and possible mental illness.

Maybe, just maybe stop letting nutters have a killing machine as a first step?

I don't know this constitution very well but surely the right to bear arms could include the proviso that certain types of behaviour preclude getting an item that magnifies your ability to slaughter others.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Denspressure on April 16, 2021, 07:55:44 AM
Fix the mental health crisis, this will be beneficial to everybody in the long run. Obviously this has only gotten worse as people were fired en masse and families put on the street because they couldn't pay rent.

Desperate times cause an influx in angered, deeply saddened and confused people who have lost everything.

Mass shootings are a symptom. You have take the problem out at the root.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 16, 2021, 10:43:00 AM
This is happening so often that I don't even know what to say about it. It's the same thing every time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on April 16, 2021, 01:16:54 PM
Here's some of the latest on the latest:

- Shooter, Brandon Hole, 19.

- “CONFIRMED through family friend and police report. FedEx shooter Brandon Hole was taken via police to hospital on 3/3/20. His mom and sister were there. Police took a pump action shotgun. Report states Hole ‘purchased gun within 24 hours & voiced suicidal ideation.'”
https://heavy.com/news/brandon-hole/

I read somewhere else that he used a .223 rifle of some sort, perhaps of the AR-15 profile, the US preferred mass shooting weapon of choice.

I also read somewhere else I can't find now that he was a former FedEx employee.

More disturbing news: The US has reported at least 45 mass shootings in the last month
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/16/us/mass-shootings-45-one-month/index.html

"CNN considers an incident to be a mass shooting if four or more people are shot, wounded, or killed, excluding the gunman; so does the GVA."

Obviously includes gang stuff and other perhaps not lone crazed gunman types. But still. 145 Mass shootings in the US in 4.5 months...???
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Denspressure on April 16, 2021, 01:35:16 PM
Very sad and depressing, all this suffering.

Short bursts of anger where people snap is a societal issue.

One which no gun control measures enacted virtually anywhere have ever resolved.

You take away peoples guns you just make them allthemore controllable and malleable by government. Consequentially those who fall through the cracks in any society due to mental illness just find other ways to slaughter people. And there is always the black market, which will always exist. In Europe especially there is a thriving illegal gun market that has been getting larger increasingly.

Gun control only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. You also will no longer be able to regulate the market.

I’m not excusing mass shootings/murders, but these happen in every other country too.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on April 16, 2021, 01:56:04 PM
They don't happen to the same extent as in the US though, there is clearly a big difference
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 16, 2021, 01:58:03 PM
4x45 = 180people (minimum)

Good one.

They shut down a vaccine use over 6 people.

They shut down vaping after a dozen or so.

Love how numbers are not to be politiczed
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 16, 2021, 03:00:46 PM
Very sad and depressing, all this suffering.

Short bursts of anger where people snap is a societal issue.

One which no gun control measures enacted virtually anywhere have ever resolved.

You take away peoples guns you just make them allthemore controllable and malleable by government. Consequentially those who fall through the cracks in any society due to mental illness just find other ways to slaughter people. And there is always the black market, which will always exist. In Europe especially there is a thriving illegal gun market that has been getting larger increasingly.

Gun control only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. You also will no longer be able to regulate the market.

I’m not excusing mass shootings/murders, but these happen in every other country too.

I'm pretty sure the stats indicate the opposite.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on April 16, 2021, 09:22:23 PM
Yeah, the US is out of control. Just this chart alone from 2010 is beyond comprehension. And it's only gotten worse I suspect:

(https://i.imgur.com/OU7xcdp.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 16, 2021, 11:40:21 PM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights. Would only make all the dickwads feel entitled. No. They WOULD be entitled. Yikes!

I'm happy to defer a so called 'fReEdOM!' of owning a gun if it means my blood thirsty deranged neighbours equally don't have one

Americas poor reputation elsewhere in the world is totally deserved. I know you guys think you're the greatest and everyone loves you. Ha! That's just propaganda talking

Many people in North Korea are told the same thing. And before China opened up to the world and had tens of millions die in starvation and poverty, they were told they were a shining light in the world and the rest of the world lived in darkness

What's different about the lies you are told? Nothing

Everyone has the right to feel safe. I'll take that right over some shitty 'I can own a gun!' right because clearly given the amount of homicides l and mass shootings you have, there is no feeling of genuine safety.

Don't believe me? If you own a gun and keep it in your house 'just in case', go hand the gun back. Feel different? Then you never have felt real safety.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 17, 2021, 12:34:34 AM
Very sad and depressing, all this suffering.

Short bursts of anger where people snap is a societal issue.

One which no gun control measures enacted virtually anywhere have ever resolved.

You take away peoples guns you just make them allthemore controllable and malleable by government. Consequentially those who fall through the cracks in any society due to mental illness just find other ways to slaughter people. And there is always the black market, which will always exist. In Europe especially there is a thriving illegal gun market that has been getting larger increasingly.

Gun control only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. You also will no longer be able to regulate the market.

I’m not excusing mass shootings/murders, but these happen in every other country too.

I hate that whole "black market exists" BS.
1. Where the hell is the black market?  How would I get a gun/drugs/children on it? 
2. Where does their supply come from?

Answers:
1. Most people don't know.   So if I snap, I have no idea how to find an illegal gun that someone will sell.  I'd google it, which is what police/fbi/local agencies do.  So not that helpful.  What most people do is either legally buy one or steal from someone they know has a gun. 

2. Some are smuggled in, sure, but most are from LEGAL OWNERS.  Especially in the US.  Buying for your "friend".  Selling in a gunshop for "extra".  Or just breaking into someone's house and stealing their guns. The majority of guns come from people who had one legally and sold it, had it stolen, or was allowed to purchase it.
And Mexico?  American guns get smuggled south, fyi.  If America had less guns, less guns would go to Mexico, making it safer.

What, do you think there's big factories all making guns for a black market on b-bay.com?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 17, 2021, 05:16:02 AM
Bill of rights is important.

Hoeever having an educated population of nonsheep is equally important to keep siad BOR from being twisted.

Its so funny when magas call people sheep.
Oh the irony.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on April 17, 2021, 06:24:47 AM
I’m not excusing mass shootings/murders, but these happen in every other country too.
Not really.  The last school shooting in the UK was in 1996.  I say last, it might well be "only".

The last mass shooting in which anyone died was the Cumbria shootings in 2011.  These things are incredibly rare in Britain.  Incidents that are etched onto the nation's memory would barely get reported in the USA.

Quote
Gun control only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. You also will no longer be able to regulate the market.
You're a Brit aren't you?  Are you saying you'd advocate for mass gun ownership in the UK?





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 17, 2021, 07:12:54 AM
Very sad and depressing, all this suffering.

Short bursts of anger where people snap is a societal issue.

One which no gun control measures enacted virtually anywhere have ever resolved.

You take away peoples guns you just make them allthemore controllable and malleable by government. Consequentially those who fall through the cracks in any society due to mental illness just find other ways to slaughter people. And there is always the black market, which will always exist. In Europe especially there is a thriving illegal gun market that has been getting larger increasingly.

Gun control only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. You also will no longer be able to regulate the market.

I’m not excusing mass shootings/murders, but these happen in every other country too.

I hate that whole "black market exists" BS.
1. Where the hell is the black market?  How would I get a gun/drugs/children on it? 
2. Where does their supply come from?

Answers:
1. Most people don't know.   So if I snap, I have no idea how to find an illegal gun that someone will sell.  I'd google it, which is what police/fbi/local agencies do.  So not that helpful.  What most people do is either legally buy one or steal from someone they know has a gun. 

2. Some are smuggled in, sure, but most are from LEGAL OWNERS.  Especially in the US.  Buying for your "friend".  Selling in a gunshop for "extra".  Or just breaking into someone's house and stealing their guns. The majority of guns come from people who had one legally and sold it, had it stolen, or was allowed to purchase it.
And Mexico?  American guns get smuggled south, fyi.  If America had less guns, less guns would go to Mexico, making it safer.

What, do you think there's big factories all making guns for a black market on b-bay.com?



From all the movies ive seen im pretty sure mexico and SAmerica get thie guns from the cia.


Canadians for sure get their drug guns from usa smugglers.
Very well documented.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 17, 2021, 12:39:41 PM
Gun control only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. You also will no longer be able to regulate the market.

I’m not excusing mass shootings/murders, but these happen in every other country too.

Many European countries don't have mass shootings every week, or even every year. Some go years without incidents.

Gun control is certainly possible, countries that outlaw handguns can regulate them quite well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on April 17, 2021, 01:37:58 PM
Apparently there were 4 mass shootings in Europe in 2020 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2020_mass_shootings_in_Europe), 24 fatalities.
Europe has a population of 748 million.


Excluding gang, organised crime or drug war killings the US had 614 mass shootings, 446 deaths, population 332.5 million.
That's nearly 19x the deaths in a population of less than half that of Europe. ( I think).

The only plus point seems to be that American shooters are a lot less accurate than Europeans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2020
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 17, 2021, 02:39:00 PM
Worst in recent memeory was norway and the french mohammed newspaper.
Also
Many of those eruo countries have similar military and hunting cultures as usa.
So theyre gun familiar.
But muchmuchmuuuuuch better social prograns.

Then look at japan where people have an insane work culture.
No guns
Wosrt you get are one time a pshyco with katanas cutting children.
What is japan doing diffeently for mental health?
Who knows.
Maybe the avilability of body pillows?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on April 18, 2021, 06:04:27 AM
Other countries: Mass shootings are bad, mmmkay?
America: We kind of just lean into it, you know? We're pretty great at it.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/3-killed-2-injured-in-somers-house-tavern-shooting-sheriffs-office-says/article_a840cf5b-8c30-5eba-b911-870923d720e7.html
Quote
Authorities pleaded Sunday for help in locating a suspect who opened fire at a Kenosha County tavern in a confrontation that left three people dead and two people seriously injured.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 19, 2021, 05:31:35 AM
Worst in recent memeory was norway and the french mohammed newspaper.
Also
Many of those eruo countries have similar military and hunting cultures as usa.
So theyre gun familiar.
But muchmuchmuuuuuch better social prograns.

Gun culture in many European countries is the reason for so few gun deaths.

Imagine living in a country where handguns are simply banned. Where you can own a hunting rifle and shotgun, but you have to store them at the police station and check them out when you want to use them.

A bit less convenient but no worries about them being stolen or your kid or your friends kids finding them and shooting someone by accident.

And if you storm into the police station mumbling about how your wife is a cheatin whore and demand your shotgun, yeah. Good luck with that.

Compared to the USA where you can just avoid every gun law on the books and buy one from a gun show and keep it loaded and stuffed in your pants in many states so you can pull it out and shoot that guy who looked at you funny.  And people wonder why the US has so many shootings.

Hint. It's all the guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 19, 2021, 05:41:04 AM
What American Freedom looks like
(https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/sites/default/files/charts-and-maps/framed/14c00d51-0b8d-4dd6-a71e-0caa61f54155.png?ts=1618833600)
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

No thanks  ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 19, 2021, 06:16:32 AM
Worst in recent memeory was norway and the french mohammed newspaper.
Also
Many of those eruo countries have similar military and hunting cultures as usa.
So theyre gun familiar.
But muchmuchmuuuuuch better social prograns.

Gun culture in many European countries is the reason for so few gun deaths.

Imagine living in a country where handguns are simply banned. Where you can own a hunting rifle and shotgun, but you have to store them at the police station and check them out when you want to use them.

A bit less convenient but no worries about them being stolen or your kid or your friends kids finding them and shooting someone by accident.

And if you storm into the police station mumbling about how your wife is a cheatin whore and demand your shotgun, yeah. Good luck with that.

Compared to the USA where you can just avoid every gun law on the books and buy one from a gun show and keep it loaded and stuffed in your pants in many states so you can pull it out and shoot that guy who looked at you funny.  And people wonder why the US has so many shootings.

Hint. It's all the guns.

Guns dont kill people
Inept castrated congressmen kill people
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 19, 2021, 07:18:06 AM
What American Freedom looks like
(https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/sites/default/files/charts-and-maps/framed/14c00d51-0b8d-4dd6-a71e-0caa61f54155.png?ts=1618833600)
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

No thanks  ::)

Well of course it's going to look bad if you highlight it with blood red.

Try using tiny mermaids to indicate gun deaths.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 19, 2021, 08:58:54 AM
this map is silly and anytime someone uses it it matches teh population density of the usa.


this one is more applicable (disclaimer, i have not vetted any of these maps...)

ownership:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg

violence:
http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/assets/4594341/gun_ownership_map.jpg

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 09, 2021, 03:41:10 PM
https://apnews.com/article/co-state-wire-colorado-springs-colorado-shootings-17954f1d457aa4c68d461535457fb235

Quote
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) — A gunman opened fire at a birthday party in Colorado, slaying six adults before killing himself Sunday, police said.

The shooting happened just after midnight in a mobile home park on the east side of Colorado Springs, police said.

Officers arrived at a trailer to find six dead adults and a man with serious injuries who died later at a hospital, the Colorado Springs Gazette reported.

The suspected shooter was the boyfriend of a female victim at the party attended by friends, family and children. He walked inside and opened fire before shooting himself, police said. Children at the attack weren’t hurt and were placed with relatives.

I bet some red flags were ignored.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Ferrell Katz on May 09, 2021, 04:13:37 PM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 09, 2021, 04:20:35 PM
this map is silly and anytime someone uses it it matches teh population density of the usa.


this one is more applicable (disclaimer, i have not vetted any of these maps...)

ownership:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg

violence:
http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/assets/4594341/gun_ownership_map.jpg

That map simply indicated where people died of gun violence

And your map indicates Australia and new Zealand has the same rate of gun ownership and some of the most violent areas of central and south America

Where I live and move around I guarantee the only people carrying a gun are the police or other law enforcers or the people that transport large amounts of cash

These are the steps someone has to take to 'own' a gun in Australia for instance in sport
https://www.ssaa.org.au/?ss_news=handgun-ownership-facts-in-australia
Quote

Steps you need to take to legally obtain a handgun

The sport of competitive handgun shooting exists only within a framework of police-approved clubs, which coordinate events on police-approved ranges across the nation. Gun laws are a state-based issue, so each of the scenarios that control the pistol shooting sports may vary slightly, but in essence the following may be taken as the general rule across our nation.

The Prime Minister announced an agreement between states and the Federal Government on December 6, 2002, which covered 28 resolutions tightening handgun controls for the legitimate sporting shooter. A person should attend at a club and make it known that they are interested in joining. The details of clubs can usually be located within firearm publications or by searching the internet. The person then has to undertake formalised safety training in the safe use of firearms. In some states this is done within the club framework or the course is completed in an external agency. The safety training is a mandated requirement for police to start the licence issue process. Some states state in legislation that safety training is to be undertaken, whilst others regulate that the registrar may require completion of a satisfactory course before issuing a licence.

The candidate then must complete six months probation within the club, during which time they are not allowed to purchase a handgun. Ongoing instruction about the club rules and firearm safety occurs within this time frame, after which the person may then, with club consent, apply to the registrar of firearms for a handgun licence.

Recent changes to firearm laws as a result of the COAG December 2006 agreement now restricts the new member to an initial purchase of a small calibre target pistol. The applicant must also have applied for and been granted a firearm licence, which is dependent upon a nation-wide criminal record check, looking for a history of violence, warrants and domestic violence orders. The applicant must also submit proof of successfully completing the firearms safety training course at the time of licence application.

Once the person receives a firearm licence with personal photograph attached, they can then attend at a licenced firearm dealer and select a handgun which is suitable for the competition in which they intend to take part. This firearm may be a single-shot air pistol, a single-shot .22-calibre pistol or a .22-calibre revolver or self-loading pistol.

When the details of the selected firearm are known, they are submitted back to the police on an Approval to Purchase form, which is checked by police as to the correct details of the firearm, the current owner (seller) and that the person submitting the approval request is, in fact, in possession of a current firearm licence.

The applicant has to wait 28 days for this process to take place. If the police approve the purchase, the applicant is notified in writing and they can then collect the handgun from the dealer upon producing their current photographic firearm licence and the Approval to Purchase form approved by the police.

The applicant then has 14 days to take the firearm to the nearest police station to where they live and register the firearm in their own name. (This is a SA policy and may vary in different states.) After payment of the fee, the applicant can then only use the handgun at an approved range for an approved event within the approved club. This means that the handgun cannot be used for any other purpose other than target shooting at the pistol club. Breaching this purpose of use will result in punishment as defined by the Act.

The club member must attend at least four to six club events a year to retain club membership and endorsement for a handgun category of their firearm licence. The clubs are bound to advise the registry if a member has not completed those events.

The handgun owner is under a legal requirement to store the firearm under security arrangements defined under the Act and regulations. Gun safes usually cost about $400 to $800.

If the club member wishes to purchase another handgun, then they must go through the same process of approval to purchase, club endorsement, registration and secure storage regime. If the club member wishes to sell a handgun, then it can only be sold to another licenced person (after the purchaser obtains an approval to purchase) or to a licenced firearm dealer.


In America it's as simple as saying 'I want one'.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 09, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Ferrell Katz on May 09, 2021, 09:08:33 PM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though

We missed our annual trip to the Northern Beaches this year due to COVID.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 09, 2021, 09:13:48 PM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though

We missed our annual trip to the Northern Beaches this year due to COVID.

Our 'Great Leader' Scott Morrison has not only forbid Australians from leaving the country and in some cases, forbid them to return, but barred any visitor (except maybe some new Zealanders) from coming here 'indefinitely' (his words)

Might as well be in North Korea  >:(

People will still vote for this Muppet so things won't change for the better
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on May 10, 2021, 03:50:36 AM
In America it's as simple as saying 'I want one'.
This is bullshit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 10, 2021, 04:11:17 AM
In America it's as simple as saying 'I want one'.
This is bullshit.


https://www.armslist.com/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on May 10, 2021, 05:33:56 AM
In America it's as simple as saying 'I want one'.
This is bullshit.


https://www.armslist.com/
There are plenty of places offering guns and ammunition for sale.

What is your point?

For clarity, my point is your point (that it is easier to obtain a gun in the US than other places) is pure bullshit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 10, 2021, 05:49:39 AM
Then why is the nra pushing sooooo hard to lobby?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 10, 2021, 05:56:01 AM
In America it's as simple as saying 'I want one'.
This is bullshit.


https://www.armslist.com/
There are plenty of places offering guns and ammunition for sale.

What is your point?

For clarity, my point is your point (that it is easier to obtain a gun in the US than other places) is pure bullshit.

In Australia there's a lot of red tape, training, licence, conditions to meet while you have that licence and a very limited range of guns you can own for a very specific purpose. Personal protection not being one of them

If I was dumb enough to choose Ameritard as my tourism destination, I could probably go on Armslist and find an irresponsible dumb shit to sell me a gun. What does he care if I'm not legit as long as he gets his money

So is it easy in America to obtain a gun? It is. You retards got it in your small brains that guns are a God given right and make you and your family safer. ROFL

In Australia we had an enlightened government that understood man, generally, is a savage primal beast and absolutely weapons of indiscriminate death should not be in the hands of everyone.

While I might not be a savage, people like you might be. And if me not allowed to have a gun means you're (or my neighbours in this case) is not allowed to have one, that makes me feel very safe indeed
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Ferrell Katz on May 10, 2021, 07:29:32 AM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though

We missed our annual trip to the Northern Beaches this year due to COVID.

Our 'Great Leader' Scott Morrison has not only forbid Australians from leaving the country and in some cases, forbid them to return, but barred any visitor (except maybe some new Zealanders) from coming here 'indefinitely' (his words)

Might as well be in North Korea  >:(

People will still vote for this Muppet so things won't change for the better

We have a granddaughter we've never seen, and she'll be a year in June. We're just hoping we'll be allowed in by year end.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 10, 2021, 07:46:20 AM
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though

We missed our annual trip to the Northern Beaches this year due to COVID.

Our 'Great Leader' Scott Morrison has not only forbid Australians from leaving the country and in some cases, forbid them to return, but barred any visitor (except maybe some new Zealanders) from coming here 'indefinitely' (his words)

Might as well be in North Korea  >:(

People will still vote for this Muppet so things won't change for the better

We have a granddaughter we've never seen, and she'll be a year in June. We're just hoping we'll be allowed in by year end.

From the news here, it seems Australians won't even be allowed to travel until late 2022. And that's as long as the vaccination works.

I was due for a month long holiday in April 2020 so my kids could see their grandparents in China. Now our shitty government is antagonising the F out of China even going so far to talking up a prospect of a future war with them.

That's how fucked up our current government is. They see votes in nationalism and tough talk and China is a punching bag post covid

But don't plan on anything before October 2022 to be honest. It's a bonus if we open up earlier
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 11, 2021, 02:24:15 AM
Way to go America! >:(

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/eight-children-killed-in-school-shooting-in-russia/news-story/6024a38a7c5ed393328369a77fb106fd

Quote
Up to 11 people including eight children have died after a school shooting in Russia.

Two unidentified attackers opened fire at the high school in Kazan on Tuesday.

“Eight schoolchildren and a teacher were killed,” a source told the Interfax news agency.

Reports from Russian media later suggested up to 11 people had been killed, with the majority of the victims children.

Photos from the scene show people outside the school with dozens of police vehicles and fire engines nearby.

One attacker, a 17-year-old, was arrested, and a second was killed, officials said on Tuesday.

Still blaming this on you. Because you export your shitty school shooting culture to the world. And yeah. Shooting at defenceless school children has become synonymous with America. It's your culture now, and from what the world sees from your politicians and red necks, you are damn proud of it
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on May 20, 2021, 11:27:39 AM
There are alot of shootings in oregon and they are getting stupider and stupider.
Man kills brothers wife over laundry dispute.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 20, 2021, 11:31:14 AM
There are alot of shootings in oregon and they are getting stupider and stupider.
Man kills brothers wife over laundry dispute.

This is how Americans solve their disputes. It seems unorthodox and counter productive but they made a whole culture out of it
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on May 20, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
There are alot of shootings in oregon and they are getting stupider and stupider.
Man kills brothers wife over laundry dispute.

This is how Americans solve their disputes. It seems unorthodox and counter productive but they made a whole culture out of it
I need to go back to korea.
Maybe but i'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
2nd amendment strikes again

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/30/us/florida-shooting/index.html
Quote
Police are asking for the public's help in finding whoever opened fire at a Florida club Sunday, killing at least two people and wounding at least 20 more, Miami-Dade police director Alfredo Ramirez III said.
Shortly after midnight, a white Nissan Pathfinder pulled up to the El Mula Banquet Hall near Hialeah.
That's when three people "stepped out of the vehicle with assault rifles and handguns and started firing indiscriminately into the crowd," Ramirez said.

If only there was something in the constitution that allowed for people to own and carry a gun to defend themselves against attacks like this ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 30, 2021, 01:22:35 PM
2nd amendment strikes again

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/30/us/florida-shooting/index.html
Quote
Police are asking for the public's help in finding whoever opened fire at a Florida club Sunday, killing at least two people and wounding at least 20 more, Miami-Dade police director Alfredo Ramirez III said.
Shortly after midnight, a white Nissan Pathfinder pulled up to the El Mula Banquet Hall near Hialeah.
That's when three people "stepped out of the vehicle with assault rifles and handguns and started firing indiscriminately into the crowd," Ramirez said.

If only there was something in the constitution that allowed for people to own and carry a gun to defend themselves against attacks like this ::)

The NRA will just vi tim nlame:
Its their fault for not owning a gun and carrying it with them at all times to defend against this.

Like: if your society is so unsafe that you need a gun all the time, your society is broken.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 13, 2021, 07:48:56 AM
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?

Quote
Six people left dead including suspect

Police are continuing to investigate the circumstances of a shooting in Keyham, Plymouth on Thursday evening which has left six people dead.

Police were called shortly 6.11pm on Thursday after shots were reported as being fired in the Biddick Drive area of the city.

Firearms officers attended and one woman, two men and a young girl, as well as the offender were all found deceased in the area.

The offender was reported deceased at 6.23pm.

An injured woman also died later at Derriford Hospital.

Those deceased were a 51-year-old woman who was known to the offender, a three year-old girl and a related 43-year-old man, a 59-year-old man and a 66-year-old woman who died later in hospital.

The 22-year-old offender who took his own life at the scene is believed to be 22-year-old Jake Davison who lives locally.

Two other people, a 53-year-old woman and a 33-year-old man who were known to each other, were injured at the scene and continue to be treated in hospital. Neither are seriously injured.

I'm always surprised when something like this happens outside the US!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 13, 2021, 07:56:18 AM
Aha!  Proof that gun bans don't work!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 13, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?

Quote
Six people left dead including suspect

Police are continuing to investigate the circumstances of a shooting in Keyham, Plymouth on Thursday evening which has left six people dead.

Police were called shortly 6.11pm on Thursday after shots were reported as being fired in the Biddick Drive area of the city.

Firearms officers attended and one woman, two men and a young girl, as well as the offender were all found deceased in the area.

The offender was reported deceased at 6.23pm.

An injured woman also died later at Derriford Hospital.

Those deceased were a 51-year-old woman who was known to the offender, a three year-old girl and a related 43-year-old man, a 59-year-old man and a 66-year-old woman who died later in hospital.

The 22-year-old offender who took his own life at the scene is believed to be 22-year-old Jake Davison who lives locally.

Two other people, a 53-year-old woman and a 33-year-old man who were known to each other, were injured at the scene and continue to be treated in hospital. Neither are seriously injured.

I'm always surprised when something like this happens outside the US!


Because it is surprising, the last one like this here was 11yrs ago.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on August 13, 2021, 08:25:44 AM
I had a backandforth with some gun nut on youtube where his best defense was the same arguemnt that "usa gun laws dont work because guns happen in other countries"

His best examples were the frnech newspaper hebdo (funded by hezbollah) and a Nice truck attack (thats right, truck) and the norway attack (racist loner).

And still failed to provide examples of frequency which was the main question to him.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on August 13, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
I'm always surprised when something like this happens outside the US!
Because it is surprising, the last one like this here was 11yrs ago.

Aha!  Proof that gun bans don't work!

Or maybe they do work.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on August 13, 2021, 12:38:40 PM
I'm always surprised when something like this happens outside the US!
Because it is surprising, the last one like this here was 11yrs ago.

Aha!  Proof that gun bans don't work!

Or maybe they do work.

Nope.  I'm equating one shooting in 11 years to 255 massing shootings in the same amount of time in the US as if they're comparable.

2nd Amendment FTW!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on August 13, 2021, 12:57:15 PM
Well, this sounds like a fun bunch to fall in with:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shootings-may-be-a-sign-the-incel-culture-is-spreading



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 13, 2021, 03:10:48 PM
I had a backandforth with some gun nut on youtube where his best defense was the same arguemnt that "usa gun laws dont work because guns happen in other countries"

His best examples were the frnech newspaper hebdo (funded by hezbollah) and a Nice truck attack (thats right, truck) and the norway attack (racist loner).

And still failed to provide examples of frequency which was the main question to him.

Fun facts about the Norwegian shooting.
It was the only mass shooting in Norway's history.
It took 4 hours.
He targeted anyone over 14 (age to join a political party)
He used a bomb to create a distraction while he killed using a pistol and a hunting rifle on an island.  And it took 4 hours to stop him because the ferry was far away and there were no bridges.
Granted, 5 million people vs 300 million is a big difference.   So what we need is mass shootings per 1,000 people. Or something.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on August 13, 2021, 03:48:59 PM
Exactly
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on August 14, 2021, 07:54:48 AM
I'm always surprised when something like this happens outside the US!
Because it is surprising, the last one like this here was 11yrs ago.

Aha!  Proof that gun bans don't work!

Or maybe they do work.

Nope.  I'm equating one shooting in 11 years to 255 massing shootings in the same amount of time in the US as if they're comparable.

2nd Amendment FTW!

Well I'm going to equate sarcasm with not noticing sarcasm!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2021, 12:50:31 PM
https://apnews.com/article/religion-389bcc56019f268cb1056e37a517bd6c

Quote
Court upholds death sentence for church shooter Dylann Roof
By MEG KINNARD and DENISE LAVOIE

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — A federal appeals court Wednesday upheld Dylann Roof’s conviction and death sentence for the 2015 racist slayings of nine members of a Black South Carolina congregation, saying the legal record cannot even capture the “full horror” of what he did.

A unanimous three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond rejected arguments that the young white man should have been ruled incompetent to stand trial in the shootings at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston.

I didn't want to start a new thread.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on August 25, 2021, 10:39:17 PM
https://apnews.com/article/religion-389bcc56019f268cb1056e37a517bd6c

Quote
Court upholds death sentence for church shooter Dylann Roof
By MEG KINNARD and DENISE LAVOIE

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — A federal appeals court Wednesday upheld Dylann Roof’s conviction and death sentence for the 2015 racist slayings of nine members of a Black South Carolina congregation, saying the legal record cannot even capture the “full horror” of what he did.

A unanimous three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond rejected arguments that the young white man should have been ruled incompetent to stand trial in the shootings at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston.

I didn't want to start a new thread.

Its always weird when a mass shooter survives, goes to trail, and tries to get out of the consequences.  Like.. what did you think would happen?

I'm glad they upheld the death sentence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on August 26, 2021, 01:58:28 AM
nah man.
princess bride/ sin city punishment is the way to go.

cut off his hands if he shoots guns.
cut off his dick if he rapes.
cut out his tongue if he deceives millions (tuckerC and co).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on August 26, 2021, 06:55:59 AM
https://apnews.com/article/religion-389bcc56019f268cb1056e37a517bd6c

Quote
Court upholds death sentence for church shooter Dylann Roof
By MEG KINNARD and DENISE LAVOIE

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — A federal appeals court Wednesday upheld Dylann Roof’s conviction and death sentence for the 2015 racist slayings of nine members of a Black South Carolina congregation, saying the legal record cannot even capture the “full horror” of what he did.

A unanimous three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond rejected arguments that the young white man should have been ruled incompetent to stand trial in the shootings at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston.

I didn't want to start a new thread.

Its always weird when a mass shooter survives, goes to trail, and tries to get out of the consequences.  Like.. what did you think would happen?

I'm glad they upheld the death sentence.
For now, we will see if they uphold it for the next 25 years and countless number of appeals he will undoubtedly file.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on October 06, 2021, 10:34:07 AM


texas active shooting

where are the good guys?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on October 06, 2021, 10:39:20 AM
In Oregon there is 2 shootings every week on average.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on October 06, 2021, 11:08:05 AM


texas active shooting

where are the good guys?

This only goes to show us the dangers of CRT!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on October 06, 2021, 12:16:41 PM
And masks
Maybe it was dirty haitians sneaking their covid and communism through the border.
Cant tell when you cant see faces.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 06, 2021, 04:55:31 PM


texas active shooting

where are the good guys?

This only goes to show us the dangers of CRT!!!

Wait a minute,  did Dale Gribbin finally crack?   I thought Boomhauer was supposed to keep tabs on him...

   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on October 06, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
I tell you hhhhhwat.
Im gonna kick your ass.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on October 06, 2021, 05:50:47 PM
I tell you hhhhhwat.
Im gonna kick your ass.

Dang it Dale...

Sorry, I don't mean to make light of school shootings,  I just thought Arlington Texas deserved a few Hank Hill references.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on October 06, 2021, 06:20:47 PM
Well you know what they say

When its a few, its a tragedy.
When its many, its a statistic and people can make jokes.... or something like that.

'merica!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 08, 2021, 12:23:05 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/motorcycle-gang-shootout-highway-leaves-woman-death-80480420

Quote
LAKELAND, Fla. -- Two motorcycle gang members got into a shootout on a Florida interstate early Friday, leaving a woman riding with the instigator near death from a bullet to the head, authorities said.

Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said Ronald Donovan and other members of the Sin City Deciples motorcycle gang were driving eastbound on Interstate 4 between Tampa and Orlando shortly after midnight when members of the Thug Riders passed them.

Judd said that offended Donovan, 38, who opened fire on the Thug Riders, hitting one in the back and causing a running gun battle at speeds of 100 mph (160 kph). The wounded rider, whose name was not released, returned fire, hitting Donovan's passenger in the head, Judd said. He said the woman, 33, is not expected to survive.

The Thug Rider and witnesses called 911. Judd said that when deputies arrived, they saw a motorcycle driving off from where the Sin City Deciples had parked. They found no guns or gang paraphernalia and believe the fleeing rider took those with him, Judd said.

He said Donovan refused to cooperate, but witnesses told investigators what happened. Bullet casings lined the highway, which was closed for several hours, he said.

Judd warned against the shooting leading to further violence between the gangs.

“We can expect the Sin City Deciples ... and the Thug Riders to get all dusted up and be mean mouthing each other on social media. Let me tell you, retaliation will get you all locked up,” he said.


It's not a mass shooting, but it's like the wild west down here sometimes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 15, 2021, 11:10:52 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/politics/alex-jones-sandy-hook.html

Another far right, repugincan arsehole who thinks he's above the courts and doesn't need to listen. This guy really is a despicable piece of shit. Actually if shit could shit, he would be that

Quote
A superior court in Connecticut granted a sweeping victory to the families of eight people killed in a 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., suing the far-right broadcaster and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his Infowars media outlet for defamation.

The judge in Connecticut ruled on Monday that because Mr. Jones refused to turn over documents ordered by the courts, including financial records, he was liable by default. The ruling combines with three previous rulings in Texas to grant the families of 10 Sandy Hook shooting victims four victories in four defamation lawsuits against Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones for years spread bogus theories that the shooting that killed 20 first graders and six educators was a government-led plot to confiscate Americans’ firearms and that the victims’ families were “actors” in the scheme.

The Sandy Hook families maintain that Mr. Jones profited from spreading lies about their relatives’ murders. Mr. Jones has disputed that, while for years failing to produce sufficient records to bolster his claims.

Juries in both states will next decide how much Mr. Jones should pay the families in damages, atop court costs. Those trials are scheduled for next year in both states.

Sucked in to the lying scumbag!  8) Maybe America is capable of upholding justice (at least sometimes) :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 15, 2021, 01:16:13 PM
he is the shit that sticks to shit's shoes.

hahaah
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 15, 2021, 01:17:42 PM
oooh if they can pin this to AlexJ, could tuckerC be on the block for Rittenhouse?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 30, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/30/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-incident/index.html


Hand gun.
20shots fired within the 5min response time of the deputy.
Body armour.
3 dead 8 others wounded.


How big are these calculators?
Bringing a scissors to a gun fight?
Aaaah nra.
More guns!
Dont polticize it, biden!



"We grabbed calculators, we grabbed scissors just in case the shooter got in and we had to attack them," he said. "Some were crying, some were trying to support others. Others were trying to come up with ideas just in case."

Page said the entire experience was "insane" and he contemplated whether he would live through the ordeal.

"The very first thing in my head was, 'Is this actually happening? I'm going to text my family, say I love them just in case, if I were to die.' Then when everything calmed down for a second, I was able to catch my breath and rationalize things," he said.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 30, 2021, 09:56:33 PM
Oh

But dont worry

Proud boys went to different schools earlier, dressed in cosplay tactical gear, to protect the kids from... crt and wokeness

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 03, 2022, 11:15:12 AM
https://apnews.com/article/media-shootings-2764e1b2b6c6ec05a58b2ae8906bf612

Quote
SACRAMENTO, Calif (AP) — Six people were killed and 10 injured in a mass shooting early Sunday as bars and nightclubs were closing in downtown Sacramento and police in California’s state capital were searching for at least one suspect.


I saw one video, and it looks like a fight broke out outside a nightclub.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 03, 2022, 04:33:45 PM
Oh

But dont worry

Proud boys went to different schools earlier, dressed in cosplay tactical gear, to protect the kids from... crt and wokeness

Does kevlar or dragon armor work best against crt?  I hear you need to wear multiple layers against wokeness.

With all the constant looming threats right wingers need to protect themselves against, it's a wonder they aren't even more paranoid and angry.  Luckily they have the proud boys and Trump to protect them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 04, 2022, 12:53:35 AM
seen the videos of cruz and cotton outraged that weakass garland was looking at parents who were making terrorist threats

PARENTS! *slam table.




man, garland looked pretty weak during those hearings.
that man doesnt' seem very quick on his feet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 04, 2022, 07:44:43 AM
Yeah anyone participating in those hearings needs a good drama coach.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 12, 2022, 07:40:55 AM
https://nypost.com/2022/04/12/nypd-investigating-possible-explosion-in-brooklyn-subway-station/

Quote
At least 13 people were injured, including five believed to have been shot, in a gruesome attack in a Brooklyn subway station during Tuesday morning rush hour, officials and NYPD sources told The Post.

The bloody incident broke out around 8:30 a.m. at the 36th Street station in Sunset Park, where authorities discovered several undetonated devices, FDNY and police said.

Clair, a straphanger who witnessed the event while riding the Manhattan-bound N train, told The Post there were so many rounds fired off she “lost count.”

The pictures in the article are a bit graphic, so don't look if you don't want to see blood.

I think there may be 5 dead, but IDK for sure. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 12, 2022, 07:49:30 AM
holycrap.
sounds very terroristy.

that sucks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 12, 2022, 07:56:35 AM
I don't know if the 5 were shot and survived, I hope that is the case. I only saw one person saying they were dead and no official death count.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 12, 2022, 01:03:29 PM
News:

Man fled the scene
Still at large
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 13, 2022, 12:04:46 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/13/us/brooklyn-subway-shooting-wednesday/index.html

Quote
New York (CNN)The man suspected of shooting 10 people on a subway train in Brooklyn on Tuesday was arrested by patrol officers in New York's East Village neighborhood on Wednesday afternoon, officials said.
Frank James, 62, was arrested without incident at about 1:40 p.m. after police got a tip on its Crime Stoppers hotline, NYPD commissioner Keechant Sewell said. The arrest came hours after officials elevated him from a "person of interest" to a suspect in the shooting and less than a day after authorities launched a manhunt for his whereabouts.
"My fellow New Yorkers: We got him. We got him," Mayor Eric Adams said.

They got him.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 13, 2022, 12:34:07 PM
hurray

also

https://news.sky.com/story/new-york-subway-shooting-police-release-details-of-man-wanted-after-attack-12588989

the video in the news report i happened upon shows people "calmly" running out.
no alarms.
no police.
i find that very odd that there wasn't an alarm to clear the next station.
how can people escape the train if there's a bunch of people at the next station waiting to get on?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 14, 2022, 09:25:22 AM
hurray

also

https://news.sky.com/story/new-york-subway-shooting-police-release-details-of-man-wanted-after-attack-12588989

the video in the news report i happened upon shows people "calmly" running out.
no alarms.
no police.
i find that very odd that there wasn't an alarm to clear the next station.
how can people escape the train if there's a bunch of people at the next station waiting to get on?

Its NYC.  The only alarm is the fire alarm, and its not remotely triggerable by the subway car driver who may not even know what happened.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 14, 2022, 10:00:39 AM
what?
my subway and busses have a yellow strip that you can slap to alarm the driver
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 14, 2022, 10:01:41 AM
what?
my subway and busses have a yellow strip that you can slap to alarm the driver

I'm not sure most nyc subways have that.  I could be wrong.  Have only ridden a dozen times or so.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 14, 2022, 10:02:33 AM
https://toronto.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2014/11/emergency-alarm.jpg


(https://toronto.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2014/11/emergency-alarm.jpg)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 14, 2022, 10:05:14 AM
wow the image function worked for once!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on April 14, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
NYC Metro has this on trains (I think the intercom goes to the train driver):

(https://i.imgur.com/jl4qAE7.png)

And these on the platforms (Intercom goes to central command, manned 24/7):

(https://i.imgur.com/8hcQIbT.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 14, 2022, 04:19:10 PM
Should we count all the deaths in Ukraine as a mass shooting?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 18, 2022, 11:06:06 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/politics/alex-jones-sandy-hook.html

Another far right, repugincan arsehole who thinks he's above the courts and doesn't need to listen. This guy really is a despicable piece of shit. Actually if shit could shit, he would be that

Quote
A superior court in Connecticut granted a sweeping victory to the families of eight people killed in a 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., suing the far-right broadcaster and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his Infowars media outlet for defamation.

The judge in Connecticut ruled on Monday that because Mr. Jones refused to turn over documents ordered by the courts, including financial records, he was liable by default. The ruling combines with three previous rulings in Texas to grant the families of 10 Sandy Hook shooting victims four victories in four defamation lawsuits against Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones for years spread bogus theories that the shooting that killed 20 first graders and six educators was a government-led plot to confiscate Americans’ firearms and that the victims’ families were “actors” in the scheme.

The Sandy Hook families maintain that Mr. Jones profited from spreading lies about their relatives’ murders. Mr. Jones has disputed that, while for years failing to produce sufficient records to bolster his claims.

Juries in both states will next decide how much Mr. Jones should pay the families in damages, atop court costs. Those trials are scheduled for next year in both states.

Sucked in to the lying scumbag!  8) Maybe America is capable of upholding justice (at least sometimes) :)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  8)
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093297017/infowars-bankruptcy-alex-jones-sandy-hook-shooting-defamation
Quote
The media outlet InfoWars filed for bankruptcy in Texas on Sunday in the face of mounting legal pressure over comments made by founder and host, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

Jones, who's repeatedly called the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut a hoax, has been sued several times by the victims' family members and others for defamation and emotional distress. Twenty children and six educators were killed in the attack.

His comments and similar ones made by other InfoWars employees are the primary cause of the "financial distress" now facing InfoWars and its related holding companies, according to the chapter 11 bankruptcy filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of Texas.

InfoWars, which described itself in court records as a "conspiracy-oriented website and media company," said it had $50,000 or less in assets and between $1 million and $10 million in liabilities.

Jones, InfoWars and related holding companies have so far spent $10 million on legal fees and costs, the filing said.

Courts in Connecticut and Texas have found Jones liable in several defamation cases brought by Sandy Hook families and others, though damages have not been determined in either case.

Sucked in!  8)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 18, 2022, 09:48:04 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/politics/alex-jones-sandy-hook.html

Another far right, repugincan arsehole who thinks he's above the courts and doesn't need to listen. This guy really is a despicable piece of shit. Actually if shit could shit, he would be that

Quote
A superior court in Connecticut granted a sweeping victory to the families of eight people killed in a 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., suing the far-right broadcaster and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his Infowars media outlet for defamation.

The judge in Connecticut ruled on Monday that because Mr. Jones refused to turn over documents ordered by the courts, including financial records, he was liable by default. The ruling combines with three previous rulings in Texas to grant the families of 10 Sandy Hook shooting victims four victories in four defamation lawsuits against Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones for years spread bogus theories that the shooting that killed 20 first graders and six educators was a government-led plot to confiscate Americans’ firearms and that the victims’ families were “actors” in the scheme.

The Sandy Hook families maintain that Mr. Jones profited from spreading lies about their relatives’ murders. Mr. Jones has disputed that, while for years failing to produce sufficient records to bolster his claims.

Juries in both states will next decide how much Mr. Jones should pay the families in damages, atop court costs. Those trials are scheduled for next year in both states.

Sucked in to the lying scumbag!  8) Maybe America is capable of upholding justice (at least sometimes) :)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  8)
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093297017/infowars-bankruptcy-alex-jones-sandy-hook-shooting-defamation
Quote
The media outlet InfoWars filed for bankruptcy in Texas on Sunday in the face of mounting legal pressure over comments made by founder and host, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

Jones, who's repeatedly called the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut a hoax, has been sued several times by the victims' family members and others for defamation and emotional distress. Twenty children and six educators were killed in the attack.

His comments and similar ones made by other InfoWars employees are the primary cause of the "financial distress" now facing InfoWars and its related holding companies, according to the chapter 11 bankruptcy filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of Texas.

InfoWars, which described itself in court records as a "conspiracy-oriented website and media company," said it had $50,000 or less in assets and between $1 million and $10 million in liabilities.

Jones, InfoWars and related holding companies have so far spent $10 million on legal fees and costs, the filing said.

Courts in Connecticut and Texas have found Jones liable in several defamation cases brought by Sandy Hook families and others, though damages have not been determined in either case.

Sucked in!  8)

Thank fucking god.
Now lets hope he gives up his vblog and gets a real job.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 19, 2022, 05:02:19 AM
Bankrupts and runs away from his financial responsibilities.

Then waits a 1yr on vacation and starts up again bigger.
He has to recoop "losses".

'Merica.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on May 14, 2022, 02:47:10 PM
Sadly another mass shooting today. Possible 10 dead or more dead.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/multiple-people-shot-buffalo-york-193456461.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 14, 2022, 03:07:21 PM
Oh no, he's one of those "replacement" people. He thinks black people are invaders. He's fucking Italian, does he think his ancestors are from here?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 14, 2022, 05:42:04 PM
Isis doesnt need lone wolf isis.
They just need to hit up chat rooms for  tuckerC channels on thevrumble or where these fuckers hang ouy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 14, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
Looks like these murderous whites are at it again.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 14, 2022, 10:28:31 PM
And live streaming their murderous ways.
Just horrible.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 15, 2022, 12:08:37 AM
Fox presenters like Tucker promoting the "Great Replacement"


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 15, 2022, 12:13:05 AM
Fox presenters like Tucker promoting the "Great Replacement"



America's answer to Osama Bin Laden. Fuck that guy
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 15, 2022, 02:49:20 AM
Fox presenters like Tucker promoting the "Great Replacement"



America's answer to Osama Bin Laden. Fuck that guy

Fuck that guy
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 15, 2022, 03:43:02 PM
https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/nation/2022/05/15/geneva-presbyterian-church-shooting-suspect-victims/9788206002/

Quote
At least 1 dead, 4 critically injured in Southern California church shooting, police say; suspect detained


I guess mass shooting season is open.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 15, 2022, 05:14:27 PM
They need to say who their inspirations are and where they get their news.
Not part of a beowse history but from their mouths.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 15, 2022, 07:14:24 PM
America is back in business!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 16, 2022, 03:07:52 AM
And of course Trumps response to the Buffalo shooting as he was on stage at a rally is to... lie about how nobody died in Afghanistan when he was present and go off on a tangent about how great he is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 16, 2022, 05:37:25 PM
This guy has a problem.   

"Christian hate-preacher Greg Locke told the people in his Tennessee tent church today, "You cannot be a Christian and vote Democrat in this nation!"
He later threatened Democrats watching him, "You ain't seen [an] insurrection yet."

https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/1526048899810615301

He's threatening to shoot Democrats, those baby killing, election stealing, god hating Democrat scum....   no prize for guessing where this leads in a land where AR15's are everywhere.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 16, 2022, 05:42:32 PM
hurray

also

https://news.sky.com/story/new-york-subway-shooting-police-release-details-of-man-wanted-after-attack-12588989

the video in the news report i happened upon shows people "calmly" running out.
no alarms.
no police.
i find that very odd that there wasn't an alarm to clear the next station.
how can people escape the train if there's a bunch of people at the next station waiting to get on?
   


I know, right?   The world should be perfect.

Tell us how you would have protected society from this.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 16, 2022, 05:46:13 PM
There would be an alarm on the train to sigbal somethings wrong and people need to gtfo.



Also
Youre a month behind and about 20 mass shootings behind
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 16, 2022, 06:12:26 PM
There would be an alarm on the train to sigbal [sic] somethings [sic] wrong and people need to gtfo.
   
Yes, there should be an alarm that sounds off before some nut starts shooting.    ::)

Youre [sic] a month behind and about 20 mass shootings behind
   

You understand that "mass" shootings have occurred persistently over the USofA's entire history and the history of humanity throughout time, right?   

Nobody likes it. 



I'm just going to stop, just so I don't piss off our resident Dems.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 16, 2022, 07:35:20 PM
I'm just going to stop, just so I don't piss off our resident Dems.

As part of the Great Replacement Process, we are now taking auditions to recruit our Bullwinkle replacement. 

Please form a line over at the Angry Ranting stand.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 16, 2022, 09:59:14 PM
There would be an alarm on the train to sigbal [sic] somethings [sic] wrong and people need to gtfo.
   
Yes, there should be an alarm that sounds off before some nut starts shooting.    ::)




In context - signal to the next station stop for people to clear the area.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 16, 2022, 11:20:22 PM
I'm just going to stop, just so I don't piss off our resident Dems.

As part of the Great Replacement Process, we are now taking auditions to recruit our Bullwinkle replacement. 

Please form a line over at the Angry Ranting stand.

Oh oh!  I'll take the job.

But not in Angry Ranting.  Thats beneith us.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 16, 2022, 11:49:11 PM
I'm just going to stop, just so I don't piss off our resident Dems.

As part of the Great Replacement Process, we are now taking auditions to recruit our Bullwinkle replacement. 

Please form a line over at the Angry Ranting stand.

Aw crap, I  pissed off a resident Dem.    ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on May 17, 2022, 01:06:09 AM
I take it America doesn’t have enough guns to make you all safe yet?  Buy more, you’ll get there eventually.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 17, 2022, 01:23:03 AM
I take it America doesn’t have enough guns to make you all safe yet?  Buy more, you’ll get there eventually.

dig up, stupid
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 17, 2022, 01:33:00 AM


The funny thing is (not amusing funny, but weird funny), the AR toting Rambo posse have this internal picture of themselves stepping up to the plate to save the day if the Libs, (insert favourite colour tag), Ruski’s/commies, Chinese or aliens come knocking for their rights, when in reality all an invader would need to do is cut communications after broadcasting a panicked good old boy shouting “They’re dressing up like us!” and leave it for a while.

The ingrained paranoia would do the rest. Those who didn’t bottle it would either die in embarrassing ricochet incidents shooting at reflections, wild shootouts with others of their ilk or just run out of ammo trying.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 17, 2022, 03:07:58 AM


The funny thing is (not amusing funny, but weird funny), the AR toting Rambo posse have this internal picture of themselves stepping up to the plate to save the day if the Libs, (insert favourite colour tag), Ruski’s/commies, Chinese or aliens come knocking for their rights, when in reality all an invader would need to do is cut communications after broadcasting a panicked good old boy shouting “They’re dressing up like us!” and leave it for a while.

The ingrained paranoia would do the rest. Those who didn’t bottle it would either die in embarrassing ricochet incidents shooting at reflections, wild shootouts with others of their ilk or just run out of ammo trying.

Just like Ukraine?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 17, 2022, 07:19:45 AM
Totally different mindset, any polarisation there on a left versus right basis, wasn’t as pronounced, hadn’t led to mass shootings of the others and generally Europeans are harder than their corn-fed (with or without cheese sprinkles) cousins.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 17, 2022, 08:48:18 AM
18yo get ammo guns tacktical gear.
Prescouts the area.
Lots of planning involed to ibflict max damage.

All in the name of being replaced and out brithed by the blacks.

So as a cum filled 18yo, he kills a bunch 50-70yos.
Ignoring the dumbass racism, on the side of plannung, the thought never crossed his mind to make use of texas law and rape 10girls in texas and have  repopulate the white race?

Oh ya.
Abbot said hed stop all rape.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 24, 2022, 01:56:45 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/texas-school-district-locked-down-on-reports-of-shooter/2022/05/24/3593dd02-db88-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html

fuck...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 24, 2022, 02:56:30 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/texas-school-district-locked-down-on-reports-of-shooter/2022/05/24/3593dd02-db88-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html

fuck...

This is fucking insane.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 24, 2022, 03:00:55 PM



Why we keep heseing about chicago and nyc when texas and florida keep trying to be the shitteist states?





Yes... the 1st two are cities.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 24, 2022, 03:11:42 PM
Apparently he shot his grandmother before he went to the school.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 24, 2022, 03:44:39 PM
It's literally American culture at this point. Expect another massacre next week
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 24, 2022, 03:57:52 PM
Apparently he shot his grandmother before he went to the school.

Sandyhook round2.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 24, 2022, 03:59:13 PM
The comments under the fox news coverage is disappointing and predictable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 24, 2022, 04:12:56 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/texas-school-district-locked-down-on-reports-of-shooter/2022/05/24/3593dd02-db88-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html

fuck...

This is fucking insane.

Absolutely fucking insane. What is going on, 2 mass shootings in like a week???
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 24, 2022, 04:22:28 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/texas-school-district-locked-down-on-reports-of-shooter/2022/05/24/3593dd02-db88-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html

fuck...

This is fucking insane.

Absolutely fucking insane. What is going on, 2 mass shootings in like a week???

I really want to know what is going on with these people. I know that the guns make these killing sprees easy, but whatever is wrong with them exists whether they have guns or not. Like, what is in their heads that makes them shoot up a school?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 24, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
The guy in Buffalo was brainwashed by the great replacement theory.

Not enough information on this guy in Texas but it really seems similar to Sandy Hook.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 24, 2022, 06:01:21 PM
The internet was a mistake.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 24, 2022, 06:08:37 PM
The guy in Buffalo was brainwashed by the great replacement theory.

Not enough information on this guy in Texas but it really seems similar to Sandy Hook.

Cue, the looney right lead by Alex Jones claiming it's a false flag. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 24, 2022, 06:35:32 PM
The comments under the fox news coverage is disappointing and predictable.

Which channel?
They have so many.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 24, 2022, 06:38:02 PM
The comments under the fox news coverage is disappointing and predictable.

Which channel?
They have so many.

Foxnews.com.  Though I suspect the youtube comments would be similar.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 24, 2022, 07:17:05 PM
Minor nonsense about gun dont kill people, how it was in the old days and guns in the car, thoughts and prayers.

Theres a few arm the teachers.

Handful of trolls/ real life pos saying "look, hes not white".
Amazing.
Thats the gotcha they think will stick it to the MSM libs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 24, 2022, 07:20:39 PM
Sounds like an incel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/05/24/what-we-know-so-far-about-salvador-ramos-the-suspected-texas-school-shooter/amp/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 25, 2022, 12:36:06 AM
Rumors are that he crashed his vehicle being chased by the police before running into the school? Sound to me like he might have been high on something?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 25, 2022, 01:47:16 AM

Words fail! 27 school shootings this year, legislation paralyzed because sticking it to the other side is more important than kids lives, but freedom right, those little kids are going to have to suck it up and get a ballistic vest.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 25, 2022, 02:26:16 AM
Ted Cruz saying all the other side wants to do is 'politicize' it. That guy seriously needs to just fuck off. What an absolute cunt

Words fail to describe just what utter contemptuous bastards the repugs, NRA and '2nd amendment' morons are
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 25, 2022, 04:11:50 AM
The comments under the fox news coverage is disappointing and predictable.

Which channel?
They have so many.

I'm so tired of Fox News and endless dirtbags like Tucker Carlson and the entire GOP who have been pushing right wing violence for decades. And everyone who supports them. But it's so easy to get sucked into their bullshit when they hate the same group you do.

The terrorists are right here, it's not the mexicans we need to be afraid of.  Abortion clinic bombings, racist mass murders, Republicans are behind nearly all the terrorism in this country.  We need to build a wall around THEM.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 25, 2022, 04:49:29 AM

The mere fact that in this blighted country, the states with fewer restrictions on guns have the highest gun deaths and that this warped fuck couldn’t have bought the guns he did on his 18th birthday in parts of the country so it couldn’t have happened there, surely even the dimmest gun fucker must see there are ways of ameliorating this problem. No?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 25, 2022, 05:24:36 AM
Rumors are that he crashed his vehicle being chased by the police before running into the school? Sound to me like he might have been high on something?

He was creeping on a girl on intsagram before thebshootout
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 25, 2022, 05:31:20 AM

Words fail! 27 school shootings this year, legislation paralyzed because sticking it to the other side is more important than kids lives, but freedom right, those little kids are going to have to suck it up and get a ballistic vest.

Kids dont pay taxes or donate to parties or buy things like gas and guns.
Ted cruz has no use for them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 25, 2022, 11:49:38 AM
I just watched governor Abbot speak on this shooting.  A very powerful and moving speech explaining to the people of Texas that he will do nothing and will actively prevent anything from being done to stop this in the future.

He did offer thoughts and prayers though.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 25, 2022, 11:56:32 AM
I just watched governor Abbot speak on this shooting.  A very powerful and moving speech explaining to the people of Texas that he will do nothing and will actively prevent anything from being done to stop this in the future.

He did offer thoughts and prayers though.

Fuck his thoughts and prayers  >:(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 25, 2022, 01:28:30 PM
I just watched governor Abbot speak on this shooting.  A very powerful and moving speech explaining to the people of Texas that he will do nothing and will actively prevent anything from being done to stop this in the future.

He did offer thoughts and prayers though.

And addressed the shooter as mr.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 25, 2022, 03:26:45 PM
More than 311,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine
 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/local/school-shootings-database/?utm_source=digg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ijNTgML.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 25, 2022, 05:00:01 PM
I wonder if theres correlation to drug use, drop out or other ptsd related impairments

300,000 is acrap ton of people
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 25, 2022, 05:56:42 PM
And Fox news hosts are spending most of their time saying how 'despicable' Democrats are for trying to politicize this by pushing for gun control reform.  Ranting about how Democrats want to take away everyone's guns to push our radical agenda on a disarmed, helpless population.

Fuck them and the NRA and the entire GOP all to hell.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 25, 2022, 07:22:52 PM
CRT
politicize it.


masks
politicizes it.


immigrants
politicizes it.


inflation
politicizes it.



trans people and gays exist
politicizes it.



guns
don't politcize it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 25, 2022, 09:34:33 PM
I wonder if theres correlation to drug use, drop out or other ptsd related impairments

300,000 is acrap ton of people

Good questions. Idk. But yeah, that's a shit-ton of kids.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 25, 2022, 10:08:01 PM
I wonder if theres correlation to drug use, drop out or other ptsd related impairments

300,000 is acrap ton of people

Good questions. Idk. But yeah, that's a shit-ton of kids.

I can believe it.  These shootings are impossible to conceal.  Pretty much every parent in the US with children in elementary school has to explain this to them.  We can't just ignore it.  If we don't talk to our kids about what happened then someone else will.  I think the chance of psychological harm from having to live with this is very high.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 26, 2022, 01:31:30 AM
I wonder if theres correlation to drug use, drop out or other ptsd related impairments

300,000 is acrap ton of people

Good questions. Idk. But yeah, that's a shit-ton of kids.

I can believe it.  These shootings are impossible to conceal.  Pretty much every parent in the US with children in elementary school has to explain this to them.  We can't just ignore it.  If we don't talk to our kids about what happened then someone else will.  I think the chance of psychological harm from having to live with this is very high.

I literally moved across the ocean so my son wouldn't have to risk dying in a shootout.
Except that one time in 2011 where a politically crazy guy killed 77 people, mostly young teens, on an island accessable only by ferry.
And that crazy guy with a bow and arrow like 6 months ago who killed 5 old people with a bow and arrow and 11 who got hurt.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 26, 2022, 08:09:21 AM
Someone should do a guns for cruz rally.
Bring all your guns and stand with cruz!

Get in nice and tight.
Show him your custom triggers.
Show him your favorite optics.
Show him how much uou appreciate his gun protection efforts.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 26, 2022, 08:23:37 AM
Perhaps a gun pride parade.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 26, 2022, 11:26:06 AM
Perhaps a gun pride parade.

With only blacks.

"Blacks with Guns."
I wonder how that would go?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 26, 2022, 12:12:02 PM
Perhaps a gun pride parade.

With only blacks.

"Blacks with Guns."
I wonder how that would go?

Historically its the only thing that ends in gun control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 26, 2022, 12:25:38 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/26/texas-school-shooting-uvalde-victims-live-updates/

It's hard to say exactly what's going on but it looks like the police aren't being truthful about their handling of this situation.  It looks like they seriously botched this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 26, 2022, 01:25:29 PM
Yesterday they were saying 3 armed police types engaged the shooter outside and called for back-up. Now they're saying there was no engagement???
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 26, 2022, 01:33:08 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/05/26/husband-of-irma-garcia-slain-in-texas-school-shooting-dies-of-grief/
Quote
The grief-stricken husband of a fourth-grade teacher killed in the Uvalde, Texas, school massacre died of a heart attack just two days after the mass shooting, family said on Thursday.

Joe Garcia died in the aftermath of the Robb Elementary School shooting that killed 19 children and two teachers — including his wife of 24 years, Irma Garcia, her nephew said on Twitter.

“EXTREMELY heartbreaking and come with deep sorrow to say that my Tia Irma’s husband Joe Garcia has passed away due to grief,” the nephew said.

“i truly am at a loss for words for how we are all feeling, PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR FAMILY, God have mercy on us, this isn’t easy.”

“the pain doesn’t stop,” he added, minutes later.

4 children left behind now orphans.

One nation, under God guns
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 26, 2022, 01:56:40 PM
God guns babies

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 26, 2022, 03:33:28 PM
Wonder what his problem was....

Canadian walking around with a rifle neaeby some schools (we have schools everywhere).
Cops shoot him..




https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiTmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9uZXdzL2NhbmFkYS90b3JvbnRvL3Rvcm9udG8tdGRzYi1zY2hvb2xzLWxvY2tkb3duLTEuNjQ2Njg4MNIBIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9hbXAvMS42NDY2ODgw?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 26, 2022, 03:44:16 PM
Wonder what his problem was....

Canadian walking around with a rifle neaeby some schools (we have schools everywhere).
Cops shoot him..




https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiTmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9uZXdzL2NhbmFkYS90b3JvbnRvL3Rvcm9udG8tdGRzYi1zY2hvb2xzLWxvY2tkb3duLTEuNjQ2Njg4MNIBIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9hbXAvMS42NDY2ODgw?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

Oh you mean they didn't let him into a school and threatened to taze anyone who wanted to stop him? What an odd place Canada is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 26, 2022, 03:59:13 PM
I don't understand wtf the police were doing. This is all getting so fucking weird.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 26, 2022, 04:02:19 PM
Canada or texas?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 26, 2022, 05:13:49 PM
Texas. They're saying it took a long time for the police to do anything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 26, 2022, 05:59:36 PM
Seems like a weird situation in that town,  they spend 40% of their municipal budget on the police and actually have their own swat team ( a small town FFS)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTuX0y_UsAAhV9e?format=jpg&name=360x360)

Seems to me they wasted the towns money. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 26, 2022, 06:13:15 PM
Ted seems to have all the answers...

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 26, 2022, 06:42:34 PM
Four of the country music performers have decided to cancel their shows for the NRA convention that's coming up. Larry Gatlin, Don McLean, Larry Stewart, and Danielle Peck have all cancelled so far.

If the NRA had any decency they would cancel the whole thing. I don't expect they will.

(Trump still plans to be there, obv)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 26, 2022, 06:51:46 PM
This probably belongs in the daily outrage thread, but this guy is a complete faker https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3  He has pretended to be lots of things, even a 1st responder on 911, and a multiple Purple Heart recipient. He's got nearly a hundred thousand people thinking his nephew was shot in the face. This is like the third tragedy where he's "lost a nephew".

This thread has all the evidence https://twitter.com/rachelmillman/status/1529954166663151616?s=20&t=vKf84MDlKO639Ie8gQWUTA 

(sorry)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 26, 2022, 08:32:48 PM
Canada or texas?

The information we're getting from the police is... odd. Sort of George floyd odd.

They say a cop or a security guard "engaged" the shooter before he entered the school. But surveillance footage shows him just walking in.

Then there's the police doing nothing but listening to gunshots for an hour.

And what kind of swat team takes an hour to get someplace?

Then the guy who ended up taking the active shooter out was a border patrol agent? Wtf?

I've also heard that 18 minutes of police records are just missing.

What aren't they telling us?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 26, 2022, 10:29:36 PM
Okay so they weren't quite doing nothing for an hour.  A few law enforcement officers had children or spouses at that school and when they learned about the situation they heroically entered the school, grabbed their loved ones, and then left.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Calen on May 26, 2022, 10:42:07 PM
They also spent the hour arresting, pepper spraying and tasing distraught parents urging them to act.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 26, 2022, 11:29:04 PM
The company that made the AR-15's is Daniel Defense,  apparently well known for using kids in their advertising kids for guns.

This picture is from an ad released the same day as the Uvalde massacre..

(https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-560w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2022-05/220526-daniel-defense-ad-mn-1035-df74fd.jpg)

This photo was posted on the Daniel Defense Twitter account May 16 with the caption
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it." 
Daniel Defense

Who in their right minds thinks its a good idea to put guns in the hands of toddlers...   Oh wait...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 27, 2022, 12:00:17 AM
Who in their right minds thinks its a good idea to put guns in the hands of toddlers...   Oh wait...

Sokaruls a fan of mixing guns with kids. I'm sure as a yank, his opinion is mainstream over there. Thinks it makes them respect them, be safe and use them properly

Of course, to use a gun properly requires you to maim or take a life. That is their design. Frankly, the gun that killed those school children did exactly what it was designed to do. Fuck guns

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 27, 2022, 01:57:02 AM

What is becoming apparent is that the mantra of the man-boy gun poseurs, that if a guy with a gun had been there, is wearing thin.
The police arrived within 4 minutes of him entering the building but spent the best part of the next hour, tazering and pepper spraying the distraught parents who were imploring them to do something, you know, like their fucking job.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 27, 2022, 03:57:28 AM
The Supreme Court said that police have no legal obligation to protect people.  Their #1 priority is their own safety, so they can and will just sit there and watch you die.

Putting police in schools is useless if they will just lock themselves in a room until the suspect runs out of ammo shooting everyone else first.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on May 27, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
I literally moved across the ocean so my son wouldn't have to risk dying in a shootout.
Similar to the representative that literally got on his hands and knees to beg?

Lying sack of crap.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 27, 2022, 04:49:50 AM
I literally moved across the ocean so my son wouldn't have to risk dying in a shootout.
Similar to the representative that literally got on his hands and knees to beg?

Lying sack of crap.

Are you calling me a liar? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on May 27, 2022, 06:30:36 AM
Right now, it appears that it was a terrific thing these school kids were cut down. The police were obviously allowing it to happen, and despite the protests from the parents about not being allowed to go in and rescue their own children, while the police rescued only their own, it is good they died now, rather than be subjected to more asshattedness by idiots roaming this particular city and forum.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 27, 2022, 07:50:47 AM
The Supreme Court said that police have no legal obligation to protect people.  Their #1 priority is their own safety, so they can and will just sit there and watch you die.

Putting police in schools is useless if they will just lock themselves in a room until the suspect runs out of ammo shooting everyone else first.

Yeah I read that a while back. It always made me wonder what the hell is the point of these people then?

It would be like if a soldier refused to go into battle because thr enemy was shooting at them.

Now I'm hearing some theories that the gunman just ending up killing himself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 27, 2022, 07:52:55 AM
Now I'm hearing some theories that the gunman just ending up killing himself.

Taking the credit to sound like a hero and divert attention away from their chicken shitness?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 27, 2022, 08:06:45 AM
The Supreme Court said that police have no legal obligation to protect people.  Their #1 priority is their own safety, so they can and will just sit there and watch you die.

Putting police in schools is useless if they will just lock themselves in a room until the suspect runs out of ammo shooting everyone else first.

Yeah I read that a while back. It always made me wonder what the hell is the point of these people then?

It would be like if a soldier refused to go into battle because thr enemy was shooting at them.

Now I'm hearing some theories that the gunman just ending up killing himself.

Thats what happened to that florida school a few yrs ago


https://apnews.com/article/shootings-parkland-florida-school-shooting-bb5c5fe81cecb63886bd325b53b2e597





Beau the fifth siad it yesterday - you need to press.  And if you cant, get abother job.


I think it was kyleK syas you cant expect someone who doesnt do this on the regular to perform whne shtf.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 27, 2022, 08:18:09 AM
Interesting and kinda (sadly) funny, old video from Cracked. Apparently, cops aren't required to 'protect & serve':

Here's How Joe Losito Learned The Hard Way That The Police Won't Help You If You're Being Stabbed
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 27, 2022, 09:06:28 AM
Interesting and kinda (sadly) funny, old video from Cracked. Apparently, cops aren't required to 'protect & serve':

Here's How Joe Losito Learned The Hard Way That The Police Won't Help You If You're Being Stabbed


Yeah I think that's the exact video I watched.  Of course the police can't really operate that way.  It sort of tarnishes the whole "hero" thing they're going for.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 27, 2022, 10:21:40 AM
Sepcially if their motto is "to serve and protect"


Rwally.
To aerve and protect[ the interest of the ruling class]...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 27, 2022, 11:05:33 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-police-gunman-shot-olivarez/

Oh.  They didn't go inside because there was a gunman shooting at people and they could have been shot.  WTF do they think their job is?

Apparently a bunch of parents were there.  Some of them armed.  The police prevented them from going inside.

So the situation is, if you're a parent and your kid is in a school getting shot up, not only will the police not do anything but they will prevent you from doing anything as well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 27, 2022, 12:03:16 PM
Right now, it appears that it was a terrific thing these school kids were cut down. The police were obviously allowing it to happen, and despite the protests from the parents about not being allowed to go in and rescue their own children, while the police rescued only their own, it is good they died now, rather than be subjected to more asshattedness by idiots roaming this particular city and forum.
What a wonderful representation of the modern day right wing Republican.  Hoping children die rather than be exposed to someone else's views or politics.  Ruled by fear and terror of anyone different.

I don't care if this is the uppers, that is one of the most vile and disgusting things I've heard come out of your racist, homophobic, anti-democratic mouth.

Stay classy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 27, 2022, 12:12:00 PM
Yes wsh is a pos.


But anyone remeber when he was talking about chicago and guns and goodguys?
This is freaking texas.
Where were the guns at?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 27, 2022, 01:17:01 PM
Yes wsh is a pos.

But anyone remeber when he was talking about chicago and guns and goodguys?
This is freaking texas.
Where were the guns at?
Wish/totallackey/Action69 doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.  I mean, he probably thinks the flat earth conspiracy run by NASA is somehow responsible.  It makes as much sense as anything that comes out of that dimwits mouth.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on May 27, 2022, 01:37:38 PM
Right now, it appears that it was a terrific thing these school kids were cut down. The police were obviously allowing it to happen, and despite the protests from the parents about not being allowed to go in and rescue their own children, while the police rescued only their own, it is good they died now, rather than be subjected to more asshattedness by idiots roaming this particular city and forum.
What a wonderful representation of the modern day right wing Republican.  Hoping children die rather than be exposed to someone else's views or politics.  Ruled by fear and terror of anyone different.

I don't care if this is the uppers, that is one of the most vile and disgusting things I've heard come out of your racist, homophobic, anti-democratic mouth.

Stay classy.
I was wondering who would be the first to bite on the really obvious troll post.  You were odds on favourite.  :P
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 27, 2022, 02:00:51 PM
Right now, it appears that it was a terrific thing these school kids were cut down. The police were obviously allowing it to happen, and despite the protests from the parents about not being allowed to go in and rescue their own children, while the police rescued only their own, it is good they died now, rather than be subjected to more asshattedness by idiots roaming this particular city and forum.
What a wonderful representation of the modern day right wing Republican.  Hoping children die rather than be exposed to someone else's views or politics.  Ruled by fear and terror of anyone different.

I don't care if this is the uppers, that is one of the most vile and disgusting things I've heard come out of your racist, homophobic, anti-democratic mouth.

Stay classy.
I was wondering who would be the first to bite on the really obvious troll post.  You were odds on favourite.  :P
Well duh. When DON'T I bite?  Besides, are there ANY posts on this site that are not troll posts?  It's hard not to respond to them when it's pretty much everyone all the time. Who else do I talk to? :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 27, 2022, 02:52:45 PM
There are thousands of posts on this site that aren't troll posts. Most of the posts in this thread aren't, either.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on May 27, 2022, 02:58:27 PM
There are thousands of posts on this site that aren't troll posts. Most of the posts in this thread aren't, either.

Most.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 27, 2022, 03:42:41 PM
There are thousands of posts on this site that aren't troll posts. Most of the posts in this thread aren't, either.
That's certainly one opinion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 27, 2022, 04:09:43 PM
Here's another: your retarted.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2022, 04:46:27 PM
How do we cure human activity?
Seriously, whining about stuff is just apathetic and lazy.   

What is our solution to the problem?   


Seriously, offer up a solution. 



I think it is time to start putting crazy people in cages again. 


Some people are fixable, we need to fund their recovery. 

Others are beyond repair.  Put them in a cage. 

We don't have to tolerate the socially dangerous.   


 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 27, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
How do we cure human activity?
Seriously, whining about stuff is just apathetic and lazy.   

What is our solution to the problem?   


Seriously, offer up a solution. 



I think it is time to start putting crazy people in cages again. 


Some people are fixable, we need to fund their recovery. 

Others are beyond repair.  Put them in a cage. 

We don't have to tolerate the socially dangerous.

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 27, 2022, 04:52:13 PM
Here's another: your retarted.
Was that one of the serious posts or a troll post?  It's so hard to tell.  I'm not even sure what my reply is anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2022, 05:03:13 PM

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.

28 people die every day due to alcohol-related crashes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 27, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
How do we cure human activity?
Seriously, whining about stuff is just apathetic and lazy.   

What is our solution to the problem?   


Seriously, offer up a solution. 



I think it is time to start putting crazy people in cages again. 


Some people are fixable, we need to fund their recovery. 

Others are beyond repair.  Put them in a cage. 

We don't have to tolerate the socially dangerous.


No "when seconds count, a cop is 5min away, [and then will wait 60min to figure-out-whats-going-on]"?


I did a quote within a quote.
Inceptuon!
Baaaaah
Bahbabababababaahahh


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 27, 2022, 05:14:28 PM
How do we cure human activity?
Seriously, whining about stuff is just apathetic and lazy.   

What is our solution to the problem?   


Seriously, offer up a solution. 



I think it is time to start putting crazy people in cages again. 


Some people are fixable, we need to fund their recovery. 

Others are beyond repair.  Put them in a cage. 

We don't have to tolerate the socially dangerous.


Weekly mental checks?
Notify local sherif if youre having an affair?
Bosses need to consult hr then fbi before firing someone?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 27, 2022, 05:15:28 PM

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.

28 people die every day due to alcohol-related crashes.

In austealia or usa?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 27, 2022, 05:19:24 PM

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.

28 people die every day due to alcohol-related crashes.

Yes and that number used to be much higher.  We recognized the problem, we got a whole bunch of nerds on it and brought it down through technology and targeted legislation.

We did not have a voting block going berserk saying things like "they're taking your cars or alcohol!" followed by people declaring futility and that we should just accept the death and misery.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2022, 05:49:44 PM

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.
WooHoooo, nobody gets murdered in Australia. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on May 27, 2022, 07:17:15 PM

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.

28 people die every day due to alcohol-related crashes.

More than 100 are shot dead each day in the USA.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 27, 2022, 07:47:37 PM

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.

28 people die every day due to alcohol-related crashes.

More than 100 are shot dead each day in the USA.
I'm guessing you want to make a point?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 27, 2022, 08:12:45 PM
How do we cure human activity?
Seriously, whining about stuff is just apathetic and lazy.   

What is our solution to the problem?   


Seriously, offer up a solution. 



I think it is time to start putting crazy people in cages again. 


Some people are fixable, we need to fund their recovery. 

Others are beyond repair.  Put them in a cage. 

We don't have to tolerate the socially dangerous.

Australia solved it. It's not impossible.

A less heavy handed solution would be to approach it the same way we approach automotive safety.

To be fair, we nipped it in the bud before we had more guns than people. Also, we don't have a retarded constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 27, 2022, 11:12:00 PM
Some new information.

Apparently it wasn't just a border patrol agent.  The border patrol has their own swat teams which is who showed up at some point.  The regular police told them to stay out of the school and this border patrol swat team just ignored them after a while and went in.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 28, 2022, 12:27:52 AM
god bless the heroes who wait to act. 

They get to go home after their shift.

Seriously, why risk your life when you're already a hero? 


That's what happens when we toss around the word HERO. 






Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 28, 2022, 12:37:50 AM
Yeah... I agree.  Every time I see those stupid flags with the thin blue line or yard signs saying "we support our police".  It really bothers me.  They're the only profession in America working to build this country.

They're working class nobodies, same as the rest of us.  My respect for these people is not automatically given.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 28, 2022, 01:05:14 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-police-gunman-shot-olivarez/

Oh.  They didn't go inside because there was a gunman shooting at people and they could have been shot.  WTF do they think their job is?

Apparently a bunch of parents were there.  Some of them armed.  The police prevented them from going inside.

So the situation is, if you're a parent and your kid is in a school getting shot up, not only will the police not do anything but they will prevent you from doing anything as well.

And in Texas, of all places.
Its like "We love guns but hate people shooting at us and definitely don't want anyone else doing our job."
Just absolute shit. 
Every singe cop who stood by and did nothing should be fired at least, publically executed at most.
Fucking cowards.

I hope the town just bans cops and arms citizens instead.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on May 28, 2022, 02:46:51 AM
We don't have to tolerate the socially dangerous.
You don't have to let them buy an AR-15 either.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 28, 2022, 02:57:51 AM
Yeah... I agree.  Every time I see those stupid flags with the thin blue line or yard signs saying "we support our police".  It really bothers me.

I don't hate them, I just think they don't understand.

They probably think the same thing about me, 


fuck.    ::)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on May 28, 2022, 06:57:41 AM
18 year old kid in Texas:


Kid: Can I get a beer please?
Barman:  No fucking way, you're way to young to possibly handle a beer.  Get out of here before you get me shut down.


Kid: Can I get an AR-15?
Gun shop: Certainly sir, how many clips would you like?


Insanity.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on May 28, 2022, 07:21:15 AM
18 year old kid in Texas:


Kid: Can I get a beer please?
Barman:  No fucking way, you're way to young to possibly handle a beer.  Get out of here before you get me shut down.


Kid: Can I get an AR-15?
Gun shop: Certainly sir, how many clips would you like?


Insanity.
Don't forget you can't drink a beer but you can choose to lock yourself into a contract with the military for years so you can learn how to kill people and then be dumped back on the street when they are finished with you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on May 28, 2022, 07:40:33 AM
. . .


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 28, 2022, 07:46:07 AM
18 year old kid in Texas:


Kid: Can I get a beer please?
Barman:  No fucking way, you're way to young to possibly handle a beer.  Get out of here before you get me shut down.


Kid: Can I get an AR-15?
Gun shop: Certainly sir, how many clips would you like?


Insanity.

I'll do you one better.

Terrorist: I'd like a plane ticket.
Airline: fuck off. You're on a no fly list.

Terrorist: I'd like a few AR 15s please.
Gunshot: of course. It's your constitutional right.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 28, 2022, 07:53:01 AM
https://gothamist.com/news/after-texas-shooting-nyc-considers-locking-main-doors-at-public-schools

NYC schools are considering locking the school doors from the outside. I think this will probably make it difficult to escape if there's a fire.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 28, 2022, 10:00:42 AM
god bless the heroes who wait to act. 

They get to go home after their shift.

Seriously, why risk your life when you're already a hero? 


That's what happens when we toss around the word HERO.


They are known to "fear for their lives"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 28, 2022, 10:03:36 AM
18 year old kid in Texas:


Kid: Can I get a beer please?
Barman:  No fucking way, you're way to young to possibly handle a beer.  Get out of here before you get me shut down.


Kid: Can I get an AR-15?
Gun shop: Certainly sir, how many clips would you like?


Insanity.

I'll do you one better.

Terrorist: I'd like a plane ticket.
Airline: fuck off. You're on a no fly list.

Terrorist: I'd like a few AR 15s please.
Gunshot: of course. It's your constitutional right.

Bobert tried her shot at the locked door and used a 9-11 plane analogy.
Poor bobert.
So dumb
So dumb



Side note
Ben shaprio
Also so dumb
Said 18yo legally purchased and passed background check, therefore ergo slam dunk check mate - gun laws wont do anything.
Because the below minimum cant be improved.
Aaaah.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 28, 2022, 10:05:01 AM
https://gothamist.com/news/after-texas-shooting-nyc-considers-locking-main-doors-at-public-schools

NYC schools are considering locking the school doors from the outside. I think this will probably make it difficult to escape if there's a fire.

No
I hear it on all the "left" channels
Doors are oneway doors.
People can stil get out.


But anyone whos ever had to pick up theur kids knows the line up is already irritatingly long.
Lets make it longer!
Heaven forbid a gunnit has to be a grown up and wait an extra 2wks2months for christmas to arrive.
No
Thats tyranny!
Every mom and 10yo now must pass through conplex maze to enter school each and every day...
Brilliant.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 28, 2022, 11:59:46 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61615236

Quote
A US woman has fatally shot a man who opened fire on a crowd of people with a semi-automatic rifle in Charleston, West Virginia.

Dennis Butler, a 37-year-old with an extensive criminal history, was killed after he targeted a group of around 40 people attending a birthday party.

Police spokesman Tony Hazelett said the woman's quick reaction saved lives and may have prevented a mass shooting.

It comes amid a national debate over guns after a school shooting in Texas.

Butler had driven by the area earlier on Wednesday evening when he was warned to slow down because children were playing.

He returned armed with an AR-15-type rifle and opened fire from his vehicle on the birthday-graduation party outside the apartment complex in the city.

Mr Hazelett told a news conference that the woman who fired back did not have any law enforcement background. She has not been identified.

"She's just a member of the community who was carrying her weapon lawfully," he said. "And instead of running from the threat she engaged with the threat and saved several lives."

The woman remained at the scene after the shooting, and is co-operating with investigators.

Charges will not be filed against her, police added.

Butler was found dead at the scene from multiple gunshot wounds, police said.

Mr Hazelett said it is not yet clear how Butler obtained the weapon - which he was not legally allowed to carry as a convicted felon.

He fucked around and found out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on May 29, 2022, 02:42:15 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61615236

Quote
A US woman has fatally shot a man who opened fire on a crowd of people with a semi-automatic rifle in Charleston, West Virginia.

Dennis Butler, a 37-year-old with an extensive criminal history, was killed after he targeted a group of around 40 people attending a birthday party.

Police spokesman Tony Hazelett said the woman's quick reaction saved lives and may have prevented a mass shooting.

It comes amid a national debate over guns after a school shooting in Texas.

Butler had driven by the area earlier on Wednesday evening when he was warned to slow down because children were playing.

He returned armed with an AR-15-type rifle and opened fire from his vehicle on the birthday-graduation party outside the apartment complex in the city.

Mr Hazelett told a news conference that the woman who fired back did not have any law enforcement background. She has not been identified.

"She's just a member of the community who was carrying her weapon lawfully," he said. "And instead of running from the threat she engaged with the threat and saved several lives."

The woman remained at the scene after the shooting, and is co-operating with investigators.

Charges will not be filed against her, police added.

Butler was found dead at the scene from multiple gunshot wounds, police said.

Mr Hazelett said it is not yet clear how Butler obtained the weapon - which he was not legally allowed to carry as a convicted felon.

He fucked around and found out.

Wow.  So a good girl with a gun really did stop a bad guy with a gun?

This is just mental though:

Quote
Butler had driven by the area earlier on Wednesday evening when he was warned to slow down because children were playing.

He returned armed with an AR-15-type rifle and opened fire from his vehicle on the birthday-graduation party outside the apartment complex in the city.

How fucked up do you have to be to make this decision?

These people slightly inconvenienced me, so I’ll just ruthlessly murder them all!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 29, 2022, 03:53:27 PM
A sane person will never understand the mind of an insane person.

Thats the whole psycho test about a girl meets a guy at a funeral or somethigns oemthing.
Or a guy thinks to cheat on his wife but a true guy never crossss his mind somwthing soemthing...



But i see this story going around and gun nuts glomming onto this saying "see the system works".

Hooooowever.
Buddy had to START shooting first.
So the time to draw and put shots on target is usually 0.25-0.33sec.
Rate of fire from a semiautomatic?
Bad guys always have to jump?

But why are only reactionary measures considered?
Why cant preventative measures be in place?
Gun nuts never want to answer that.
It always becomes a restriction to MY freedoms.
Follow up,  How are you restrictied?
Response? Silence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 29, 2022, 08:21:51 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTy1n23A0QTloTq_IHzvX3WWqHbA96jd2ynoA&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2022, 08:29:07 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuj-vu1nTRJHGhkw8sDI7i7Y3U-7kXq0Dy8i6XNA_lX36-bIS0NjLwyUns_0vQ-M6mY9w&usqp=CAU[)

(https://img.ifunny.co/images/435358466dc3ed94a92bcf48c6520e5884c0da8aa06f5d78a8213b7e75766d9d_1.jpg)


Ameritard logic

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on May 30, 2022, 11:11:20 AM
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/at-least-26-people-killed-in-shootings-across-the-us-over-memorial-day-weekend/news-story/5b241161c1b03737587a192d236f9fd5
Quote
At least 26 people have died in shootings in a single weekend in the US.

The horror death toll - just six days after 21 innocent teachers and children were shot dead at a school in Uvalde, Texas - was reported following the Memorial Day public holiday weekend.

Dozens more were injured as yet another few days of sickening gun violence came and went in America - with shootings taking place in cities across the country.

Nineteen children were killed in the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School, as were two of their teachers.

But despite the carnage - and the bloodshed yet again this weekend - next to no action has been taken to limit access to guns in the wake of one of America’s darkest days in recent history.

Eight of the weekend’s victims died in Philadelphia, including an 18-month-old boy and a nine-year-old boy.

Another five were shot dead in Chicago, where 21 more people were injured in shootings.

School shooting in Chicago

Another mass shooting broke out near an elementary school, with five people hurt when a fight broke out and shots were fired near Daniel Webster School in Chicago.

All five were taken to hospital in a serious condition, including a 33-year-old man who was shot in the face.

Also in Chicago, a 33-year-old man standing on the pavement was shot in the head and body.

A 34-year-old was shot while sitting in a parked car, while two people standing near the car also suffered gunshot wounds.

A 16-year-old girl was shot in the back in another vile attack that saw her and four other young adults rushed to hospital in a serious condition.

A 56-year-old man was also shot in a drive-by shooting.

Boy, 9, shot dead in Philadelphia

A nine-year-old boy was shot dead - one of eight people to die in shootings in the city this weekend.

Three more youngsters - including a four-year-old boy, were injured in shootings.

A young man estimated to be under the age of 21 was shot dead on Sunday afternoon, while a 30-year-old man also died from multiple gunshot wounds on Saturday.

Another shooting claimed the life of another man, with two women also injured in that shooting.

Later that evening, a man died in another gun battle that also left a 25-year-old injured,

A 49-year-old man was shot dead on Sunday morning, and hours later a dad and his nine-year-old son were shot dead in a drive-by.

A 21-year-old woman and a 16-year-old girl were killed in another shooting in the city, while a 14-year-old girl was injured.

Baby dead in Pittsburgh drive-by

An 18-month-old baby boy was shot dead in a drive-by shooting that went horribly wrong in Pittsburgh.

Police believe the gunman was aiming for someone else in the car, but ended up killing the child.

Four dead in Maryland

Four people died in shootings in Maryland over the public holiday weekend.

A 17-year-old boy was killed in a shooting on the waterfront in Baltimore on Saturday, while a girl, 17, was injured.

Two men were killed in another shooting later that night, and a woman was shot dead separately the next morning.

Another teenage boy was gunned down on Sunday morning.

“I am sickened that this plague continues to grip our city,” Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott said.

Graduation party shooting in Atlanta

One person died and two more were injured in a shooting at a packed graduation party with 200 guests in Atlanta, Georgia.

Akeem Ellison, 18, died in the shooting, while Elijuan Wright, 17, and a 15-year-old were airlifted to hospital.

No arrests have been made.

One dead in Memphis

One person was killed and six were injured in shootings in Memphis, Tennessee.

Police also haven’t located a suspect.

Nine-year-old shot in Oklahoma

Several people were shot at an event to mark Memorial Day in Taft, Oklahoma, with one person dying.

The youngest person shot was just nine years old.

Skyler Buckner handed himself into cops after an arrest warrant was issued on Sunday.

Highway gun battle in Nevada

Seven people were injured in a shooting on a highway in Nevada on Sunday morning, with two of them fighting for life.

No one has been arrested.

One dead in California

One adult died in a shooting that left three teenagers injured in Fresno, California, on Saturday night.

Police found the dying victim and two teenagers, aged 15 and 16, while responding to another call.

Another 16-year-old was also shot.

One of the teenagers is fighting for life in hospital, while the others are stable.

Nightclub murder in Florida

A reveller was killed in a nightclub shooting in Tampa on Sunday morning.

Gunshot broke out at the Blue Lounge Club in Tampa, where another person was killed three years ago.

Two dead in NYC

Two people were killed and five were injured in shootings across New York City on Sunday.

Donovan Davy, 45, died after being shot in the neck and leg in Brooklyn.

He was one of two people shot dead in Brooklyn over the weekend.

Another man was also shot in Queens, but survived.

Aquarium shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee

Two people are fighting for life after six were shot near an aquarium in Chattanooga, Tennessee, on Saturday.

Several people opened fire in the mass shooting, police said.


The sad part is, this isn't even news in America anymore. It's just the day to day life and accepted risk. 26 dead and scores injured in a 3 day weekend is probably a 'good' weekend for you guys. Honestly, what a shitty society and you only have your dumbarse constitution and yourselves to blame for the state you are in.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 30, 2022, 07:12:14 PM
Repubs blaming everyhing under the sun for uvaldes.
Even the cops for inaction.

Yet the policy makers say dont polticize and nows not the time and their own inaction.

Serisouyl going to chew out cops for being afraid to die (understandbly they shoot unarmed blackmen all the time for such fears) and blaming inaction.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 31, 2022, 06:46:16 AM
I don’t want to harp on about this, but I am going to, probably ad-nauseam and to the detriment of my health and your mental wellbeing.

Many Americans have bought into a myth, well, several but it all stems from the myth of freedom.
To concede one inch of ground on gun control is to start to lose those freedoms. Leaving aside the nature of that freedom and whether it actually exists for a moment, how is it that reasonably intelligent people faced with mounting death rates amongst their children, which by any metric are far and above other comparable nations, still cleave to their guns at the expense of their offspring?

Well because they have been fed lies, and once swallowed and absorbed it is difficult to admit that you are the fool, and before your hackles rise, we all do it, ask someone from the UK about whether the Empire was overall a good thing, they will huff and puff about the odd badly treated native but say yes on balance we did good. If you were an industrialist or royalty then that is true, if you were a normal person, factory worker, a soldier or indeed almost any native in a third of the world, then you more than likely got fucked over and told it was for your own good. Ever since then the line has been, we bought civilization (at the end of a bayonet), peace (when you had had enough of being bayoneted) and gave it back (fucked & in turmoil).

Yanks are spoon fed the American dream the same way, in their classrooms from day one they do a pledge of allegiance, not once but just about every day, singing about the home of the brave and land of the free. Nobody else does that, other than maybe North Korea and some place back in thirties Europe.
I have heard President Bush saying that the rest of the world are jealous of US freedoms and that envy was at the root of 9/11! And people bought that enough for him to invade a country that had absolutely nothing to do with it while carry on dealing with one that very definitely did.

Hollywood pedals the US as the fighter for justice and that war is an addiction that is ideally suited to the American poor, just in case they are needed to grab some dwindling resource for the rich.

And through all this the military industrial complex  hawks paranoia and distrust of not only foreigners but  neighbours too, its talking head (The NRA) has stymied any and every effort, however sensible, to limit the deaths, rallying around the banner of the 2nd amendment as if the authors in times when fear of a returning UK, or a government bent on tyranny that could have been repulsed  by musket wielding citizens could envisage the US killing more of its residents than all the wars since , with home owned guns,  and not have been appalled and wondered what had happened to that freedom.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 31, 2022, 08:15:08 AM
abbot said he'd killl his constiuents to keep the electric grid private.

kill his students to ensure 21age limit or mental health is not part of the gun background check.

kill his women to ensure domestic violence, wait times and certified licensing are not part of the gun purchase process

kill more women to ensure abortions of mindless cell clumps fully develop to later kill their mothers during delivery (he's not first, but he's top 10).

kill his economy with his personal spat with the mexicans and owning the libs.





is it freedom or stupidity?


william wallace:  freeeeedom!!!!



side note
why do i care about texas?
i don't really
but i hear family members and MY local news talking about how great texas is doing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 31, 2022, 08:31:40 AM
If you live in Canada then Texas probably doesn't affect you much.

Texas is one of the biggest and most influence states in the US.  It's also demographically a purple state that's desperately trying to force itself to be a red state so there's an extra boost of craziness there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 31, 2022, 08:56:18 AM
Well like i said - their idealism is infdctious and spreading.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 31, 2022, 03:55:20 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

Quote
Uvalde police, school district no longer cooperating with Texas probe of shooting: Sources

Texas officials are probing law enforcement's response to last week's massacre.

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

The Uvalde police chief and a spokesperson for the Uvalde Independent School District did not immediately respond to requests for comment from ABC News.

According to sources, the decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after the director of DPS, Col. Steven McCraw, held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was "the wrong decision" and contrary to protocol.


I think McCraw hurt their feelings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 31, 2022, 04:01:42 PM
Further proof teenagers are stupid and shouldnt be allowed to have guns

Last week someone was shot by cops over a bb gun near a dchool.

This week...

4 teenagers charged after pellet gun shootings at Toronto-area schools
By Staff  The Canadian Press
Posted May 31, 2022 6:47 am EST
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8881724/teenagers-charged-pellet-gun-shootings-toronto-schools/amp/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 31, 2022, 04:04:10 PM
Theu should know their miranda rights...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

Quote
Uvalde police, school district no longer cooperating with Texas probe of shooting: Sources

Texas officials are probing law enforcement's response to last week's massacre.

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

The Uvalde police chief and a spokesperson for the Uvalde Independent School District did not immediately respond to requests for comment from ABC News.

According to sources, the decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after the director of DPS, Col. Steven McCraw, held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was "the wrong decision" and contrary to protocol.


I think McCraw hurt their feelings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 31, 2022, 05:55:59 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/31/texas-school-attack-door-closed-00036158

An additional small detail to the story.

Earlier the story was some teacher propped open the door that the shooter went in.

But now it seems the teacher did in fact close the door as she saw first hand the shooter crashing and shooting at people outside. 

The door did not lock itself like it was supposed to though.  I wonder how things might have played out differently if it did.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 31, 2022, 07:08:56 PM
That suuucks.
Gut wrenching guilt forever
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on June 01, 2022, 07:11:17 AM
(https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/7a4a9944d8be9743e585b0afc13a77b5)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 01, 2022, 07:24:17 AM
(https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/7a4a9944d8be9743e585b0afc13a77b5)

Well.  It's not to early in the day to start drinking I guess.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 01, 2022, 08:22:22 AM
Cremation
Then dump the ashes on cruz abbots desk


Nah
I like my other idea
Go show them your faviorute gun.
Tell him youre a good guy.
Get him to sign it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 01, 2022, 11:54:22 AM
https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1531826827249037312?s=20&t=apVRcBeSU7a-F5b17X9dWw

Quote
BREAKING: Pete Arrendondo, the Uvalde police commander who told officers NOT to enter the classroom for 78 minutes while the gunman was still shooting and kids were bleeding out, was secretly sworn in tonight as a Uvalde City Council member.

No media — no messy press questions.

Interesting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on June 01, 2022, 07:45:15 PM
Round and round it goes.

The New York Times: Tulsa Shooting Latest Updates: Gunman Kills Four in Attack at Hospital.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/01/us/tulsa-shooting-oklahoma-news
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on June 01, 2022, 10:09:53 PM
https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1531826827249037312?s=20&t=apVRcBeSU7a-F5b17X9dWw

Quote
BREAKING: Pete Arrendondo, the Uvalde police commander who told officers NOT to enter the classroom for 78 minutes while the gunman was still shooting and kids were bleeding out, was secretly sworn in tonight as a Uvalde City Council member.

No media — no messy press questions.

Interesting.

Well thats not suspicious at all... >_>
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 07, 2022, 12:17:42 PM


Matthew McConaughey makes an impassioned plea for gun control.

The comment section is... Disappointing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on June 07, 2022, 01:21:16 PM


Matthew McConaughey makes an impassioned plea for gun control.

The comment section is... Disappointing.

He calls it "gun responsibility".

And oh yeah, holy shit, the comments are ruthless. It makes it look like the NRA paid a bunch of folks to bash away...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 07, 2022, 02:02:42 PM
well it is fox.
bet you plenty of the commentors are on staff.



this one is definitely part of the russian crew.

mme duvennet
mme duvennet
24 minutes ago
I do love the reading of the names of the victims and reminding us that precious dreams.  Must not be forgotten 🙏



mme duvennet
mme duvennet
20 minutes ago
I've always loved Matthew McConaughey I've seen strong in many screen 🎥🎭 r o l e s 🌟🌟🌟
He is charming and persuasive that's a very important quality and character trait   I will say that




mme duvennet
mme duvennet
1 hour ago
I always wait for Steve doocy to appear in the front row I watched him materialize today he and Jackie Heinrich are stellar 🤩

1


mme duvennet
mme duvennet
19 minutes ago
Okay brilliant 🌟🎭 but why no questions? you wouldn't take questions Matthew that disappoints a lot of people but I'm not surprised




mme duvennet
mme duvennet
1 hour ago
Because my bubble squirting plastic toy gun does not give me confidence 🥴

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 07, 2022, 04:01:20 PM


Matthew McConaughey makes an impassioned plea for gun control.

The comment section is... Disappointing.

He calls it "gun responsibility".

And oh yeah, holy shit, the comments are ruthless. It makes it look like the NRA paid a bunch of folks to bash away...

The strangest accusations is that he's acting.  As if anybody wouldn't get emotional talking about a grade school shooting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 07, 2022, 04:11:38 PM
Gun nuts are wrose than timises in their gun knowledge

You should see tue comment secrion on baldwin.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on June 07, 2022, 04:41:08 PM


Matthew McConaughey makes an impassioned plea for gun control.

The comment section is... Disappointing.

He calls it "gun responsibility".

And oh yeah, holy shit, the comments are ruthless. It makes it look like the NRA paid a bunch of folks to bash away...

The strangest accusations is that he's acting.  As if anybody wouldn't get emotional talking about a grade school shooting.

Perhaps Reagan was just acting like he had dementia.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on June 07, 2022, 11:00:12 PM
No lessons learnt.

Shall we place bets on which American school will host the next mass shooting?

We could also place bets on how many students will be injured and how many killed, and bets on how many teachers of said school will be murdered and how many injured.

Meanwhile, I wonder how many psychopaths in America today, have bought themselves a handsome assault rifle or semi automatic, and all the ammunition their duffle bag could hold?

Seriously, I don't know why someone in America hasn't created a school mass shooting point of view online game? Mass shootings in schools seems to be America's favorite passtime, sending their children to school to get their brains blown out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on June 07, 2022, 11:07:40 PM
Mass shootings in schools seems to be America's favorite passtime, sending their children to school to get their brains blown out.

Repugnicans must think it's character building
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 08, 2022, 01:19:14 AM
As long as its not mask, crt, wokeness, gays exist, or commjnism rheyre fine wirh it.

Freedom bullets!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on June 08, 2022, 03:01:03 AM


Seriously, I don't know why someone in America hasn't created a school mass shooting point of view online game? Mass shootings in schools seems to be America's favorite passtime, sending their children to school to get their brains blown out.
They did.
Sort of.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 09, 2022, 02:31:44 PM
Factory shooitng in maryland

We need to harden these softtragets

Get better doors

Line workers need to start carrying

Thoughts andnprayers



https://news.google.com/articles/CBMifWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY3dhc2hpbmd0b24uY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvbXVsdGlwbGUtcGVvcGxlLWtpbGxlZC1pbi1zaG9vdGluZy1hdC13YXNoaW5ndG9uLWNvdW50eS1tYW51ZmFjdHVyaW5nLXBsYW50LzMwNzM2MjEv0gGBAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY3dhc2hpbmd0b24uY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvbXVsdGlwbGUtcGVvcGxlLWtpbGxlZC1pbi1zaG9vdGluZy1hdC13YXNoaW5ndG9uLWNvdW50eS1tYW51ZmFjdHVyaW5nLXBsYW50LzMwNzM2MjEvP2FtcA?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on June 09, 2022, 02:51:33 PM
Factory shooitng in maryland

We need to harden these softtragets

Get better doors

Line workers need to start carrying

Thoughts andnprayers



https://news.google.com/articles/CBMifWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY3dhc2hpbmd0b24uY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvbXVsdGlwbGUtcGVvcGxlLWtpbGxlZC1pbi1zaG9vdGluZy1hdC13YXNoaW5ndG9uLWNvdW50eS1tYW51ZmFjdHVyaW5nLXBsYW50LzMwNzM2MjEv0gGBAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY3dhc2hpbmd0b24uY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvbXVsdGlwbGUtcGVvcGxlLWtpbGxlZC1pbi1zaG9vdGluZy1hdC13YXNoaW5ndG9uLWNvdW50eS1tYW51ZmFjdHVyaW5nLXBsYW50LzMwNzM2MjEvP2FtcA?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

You forgot banning abortion, ban violent video games and turn to jesus - We need to swaddle 'Merica in the moral fabric of Christ. It's the only way. As well as arming 68 year old Mrs. Perkins, 4th grade math teacher at Middletown Elementary school. She has expressed a deep interest in in close quarter small arms firefight training, Fahlujah style.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 09, 2022, 03:27:24 PM
Recently visited a few of my friends in Vegas.  Very big into guns but otherwise reasonable.  I made an effort to avoid talking about guns but it comes out eventually.  It doesn't help that I still want to yell at people over that Uvalde incident.

Some ideas that I think we generally agreed on;

Do a better job enforcing existing gun laws.
Background checks are a good thing.
It's impractical to go the Australian route but we still need some restrictions.
Maybe raise the age to buy firearms.
Arming teachers is not a solution.

Some things they believe that I can't quite seem to convince them of otherwise;

The liberals want to take away all the guns.
A baseball bat is just as dangerous as a gun.
A car is just as dangerous as a gun.
If we ban guns then they'll use bombs instead. (wtf?)
Every country has roughly as many mass shootings as we do.
The police did nothing wrong in Uvalde.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 09, 2022, 03:53:11 PM
"The police did nothing wrong in Uvalde" surprises me. Most of the conservatives I see online think they did.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 09, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
They sound like crazy people.
Get new friends.
Come to canada
We can hang out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 09, 2022, 06:11:02 PM



So this video is from christmas
But apparently the teacher friends are talking about how its happening now in teen circles here in the toronto area which is why these idiot teens are doing this


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/schools-pellet-gun-shootings-teens-1.6471844
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on June 09, 2022, 07:06:47 PM
Crouton, your friends in Vegas are red neck gun nuts. But, you know that already.

Gun reform still isn't even on America's radar.

The Police in Uvalde did screw up. They treated it as a siege situation instead of an active armed offender situation through to the end. First response police are supposed to be trained to arrive wearing bullet proof vests, and not pause, but keep moving in, until they locate the armed offender and remove the threat. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 10, 2022, 04:13:11 AM
It's true.  But they're good guys.  They'd probably give me a kidney if I asked.  It's just this particular issue where we disagree.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 10, 2022, 10:10:51 AM

The sad part is, this isn't even news in America anymore. It's just the day to day life and accepted risk.


I was in Australia when Iran/Contra broke open.  Australian news made it seem like America was  going to collapse into a third world shit pit.  I was wondering if I would have a country to come home to. 

Turned out to be fuck you. 

You third world monkeys have nothing better to do than bitch about shit outside your borders.

Solidly pathetic.


PS Aussies,  best 5 weeks of my life.  ;)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 12, 2022, 06:16:07 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/senate-group-agrees-broad-outline-gun-law-uvalde/story

Quote
A bipartisan group of senators on Sunday announced an agreement had been reached -- though in principle only -- on new legislation meant to address the country's ongoing gun violence, including the recent Uvalde, Texas, elementary school shooting.

The deal, in the works for weeks, has the support of at least 10 Republicans in the Senate, which is the number needed to avoid a filibuster.

If passed, the proposal would be the first major gun law to make it through Congress in years.

Among other things, the agreement would provide funding for mental health (including behavioral health centers) and incentives for the creation of so-called "red flag" laws to remove firearms from people who are a danger to themselves or others; increase money for school safety; and strengthen the federal background check system as it relates to convicted domestic violence abusers or those with restraining orders.

Potential gun owners under 21 would also be subject to "an investigative period to review juvenile and mental health records, including checks with state databases and local law enforcement," the bipartisan group said Sunday.

A bipartisan gun law in my America?!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on June 12, 2022, 07:28:46 PM
It's true.  But they're good guys.  They'd probably give me a kidney if I asked.  It's just this particular issue where we disagree.

It's all fun and games until you bring mental health into the picture, or immaturity and inexperience. Guns aren't referred to as lethal weapons, for nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 12, 2022, 08:12:36 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on June 13, 2022, 07:14:37 AM
Good.
I doubt it'll make it through but good anyway.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 13, 2022, 09:03:57 AM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 13, 2022, 09:09:52 AM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

no
you should be part of a well regulated militia if you want a gun for defense of the state.

and if you want a gun for fun, then you should be licensed, insured, registered, and periodically checked up on that the gun is still in your possession.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 13, 2022, 09:15:00 AM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

Going thr Australia route will fix everything. I'm trying to be practical.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 13, 2022, 08:22:37 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

no
you should be part of a well regulated militia if you want a gun for defense of the state.

and if you want a gun for fun, then you should be licensed, insured, registered, and periodically checked up on that the gun is still in your possession.

Shall not be infringed.  Self explanatory.

Regulated meant outfitted.  Militia meant adult male.

A well regulated militia is every adult man with every weapon we have on hand. 

 
It's just hilarious what your convoluted addled brain confuses with reality. 



How about Ukraine?  Luck thing they have guns and rockets, right?


Yep . . .


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on June 13, 2022, 09:58:45 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

no
you should be part of a well regulated militia if you want a gun for defense of the state.

and if you want a gun for fun, then you should be licensed, insured, registered, and periodically checked up on that the gun is still in your possession.

Shall not be infringed.  Self explanatory.

Regulated meant outfitted.  Militia meant adult male.

A well regulated militia is every adult man with every weapon we have on hand. 

 
It's just hilarious what your convoluted addled brain confuses with reality. 



How about Ukraine?  Luck thing they have guns and rockets, right?


Yep . . .

But they didn't until being invaded.
All those people with guns are soliders in a war.  And last I checked, America isn't being invaded or have a civil war.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on June 13, 2022, 10:23:53 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

Going thr Australia route will fix everything. I'm trying to be practical.

Owning a gun in Australia is no big deal,  you just need to belong to a sporting shooting club, or be a farmer who has a need to control animal pests. 
Lots of clubs around, including pistol clubs and clay target clubs,  the rules are pretty strict regarding storage and transport of guns and ammunition.  Ammunition must be stored in separate locked storage, guns in another locked safe storage.  Police can call in unannounced and ask to see your guns and ammunition are stored correctly.

Carrying a gun or any other weapon for that matter in public is an offence.   You can't walk down the street swinging a samauri sword, you'll get arrested.  Waving a shotgun around will end up the same.  Even carrying an unsecured loaded gun in the boot of your car will get you fined. 

Semi automatic weapons are mostly illegal, but there are licence classes that allow semi-automatic weapons.   

We have no shortage of psycho anti-social nutters,  we just don't let them have guns, or at least make it difficult.
 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 13, 2022, 11:07:53 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

no
you should be part of a well regulated militia if you want a gun for defense of the state.

and if you want a gun for fun, then you should be licensed, insured, registered, and periodically checked up on that the gun is still in your possession.

Militia meant adult male.



??? I have never heard this term used this way.  Was it an extremely specific use of the term created exclusvie for the Supreme Court to decided Columbia Vs. Keller?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on June 14, 2022, 12:36:40 AM
I'm not sure how "Militia" was defined back in the late 1780's. But if it refers exclusively to adult males, I guess Constitutionally, males under the age of adulthood and all women are not allowed to bear muskets & flintlock pistols (arms).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 14, 2022, 01:46:28 AM
Militia meant adult male.
Right.  So why didn't they just say "men"?  As that is the collective noun for adult males.

Do you use the word that way?  If someone asks what that bar you went to was like do you go "Well, it was OK, not many women - just militia mainly"

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on June 14, 2022, 04:25:40 AM
Militia meant adult male.
Right.  So why didn't they just say "men"?  As that is the collective noun for adult males.

Do you use the word that way?  If someone asks what that bar you went to was like do you go "Well, it was OK, not many women - just militia mainly"

He uses 'militia' and 'men' synonymously like Amber Heard uses 'pledge' and 'donated' synonymously lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 14, 2022, 04:40:22 AM

 last I checked, America isn't being invaded or have a civil war.

According to some it is on the southern border and by commie libs.

And soon if the "tyranny doesnt stop".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 14, 2022, 04:43:01 AM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

no
you should be part of a well regulated militia if you want a gun for defense of the state.

and if you want a gun for fun, then you should be licensed, insured, registered, and periodically checked up on that the gun is still in your possession.

Shall not be infringed.  Self explanatory.

Regulated meant outfitted.  Militia meant adult male.

A well regulated militia is every adult man with every weapon we have on hand. 

 
It's just hilarious what your convoluted addled brain confuses with reality. 



How about Ukraine?  Luck thing they have guns and rockets, right?


Yep . . .


A well regulated militia is necessary to keep the state free.

The people will form the well regulated militia.


States have a well regulated militia made up of The-People.

The-Person polishing his gun in his moms basement is not not well regulated.
Self regulation is not well regulation.



Bob is part of the states militia.
jim is not.
Bob gets a gun.
Jim does not.
SHTF jim can ask bob for a gun, but if bob deems jim a liability, he can refuse to give him the gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on June 14, 2022, 06:18:04 AM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

Going thr Australia route will fix everything. I'm trying to be practical.

If you're trying to be practical, have a look at when Australia's last mass shooting was. So, yes, going the Australian route WILL fix everything.

Rayzor nails it with his post, also.

That's the difference between Australia and America. In Australia, all measures are put in place to keep guns out of maniacs hands. Americans seem to think it's a god given right for all people including maniacs, to have a loaded gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 14, 2022, 06:27:48 AM
While yes a total banning of guns, aussie style, would work, it also doesnt unless theres buy in from the people

Aussie had buy in
Usa does not

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 14, 2022, 08:32:23 AM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

Going thr Australia route will fix everything. I'm trying to be practical.

If you're trying to be practical, have a look at when Australia's last mass shooting was. So, yes, going the Australian route WILL fix everything.

Rayzor nails it with his post, also.

That's the difference between Australia and America. In Australia, all measures are put in place to keep guns out of maniacs hands. Americans seem to think it's a god given right for all people including maniacs, to have a loaded gun.

You just illustrated why it's not practical to do here what was done in Australia.  Half the population is so brainwashed by Fox News that they'll likely started murdering anyone they suspect wants to take their guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on June 14, 2022, 09:30:55 AM
Australia nipped that shitty gum culture bullshit in the bud before it was too late. It's too late for America

Hell, the repug politicians there don't even want background checks because they think having a gun is a divine right. What a fucked up mindset
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on June 14, 2022, 02:30:01 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

Going thr Australia route will fix everything. I'm trying to be practical.

If you're trying to be practical, have a look at when Australia's last mass shooting was. So, yes, going the Australian route WILL fix everything.

Rayzor nails it with his post, also.

That's the difference between Australia and America. In Australia, all measures are put in place to keep guns out of maniacs hands. Americans seem to think it's a god given right for all people including maniacs, to have a loaded gun.

You just illustrated why it's not practical to do here what was done in Australia.  Half the population is so brainwashed by Fox News that they'll likely started murdering anyone they suspect wants to take their guns.

They're going to murder their Police departments, and their army when they instigate martial law, are they? 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on June 14, 2022, 03:10:31 PM
Not quite as strong as I'd prefer.  I would have liked to see the minimum age for buying any gun set to 21.  But this bill has some good things in it.  Particularly closing the boyfriend loophole.


I think you should be 32 to buy a gun.  Seriously, that will fix everything.

Going thr Australia route will fix everything. I'm trying to be practical.

If you're trying to be practical, have a look at when Australia's last mass shooting was. So, yes, going the Australian route WILL fix everything.

Rayzor nails it with his post, also.

That's the difference between Australia and America. In Australia, all measures are put in place to keep guns out of maniacs hands. Americans seem to think it's a god given right for all people including maniacs, to have a loaded gun.

You just illustrated why it's not practical to do here what was done in Australia.  Half the population is so brainwashed by Fox News that they'll likely started murdering anyone they suspect wants to take their guns.

They're going to murder their Police departments, and their army when they instigate martial law, are they?

Have you ever been to America?

Yes. Yes they will.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on June 14, 2022, 03:33:51 PM
Yes. Yes they will. Undoubtedly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on June 15, 2022, 03:08:29 AM
Pretty sure Americans would spill blood if they tried to impose the metric system. So yeah, I can believe they'd spill blood over being told to turn in even one of their guns
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on June 15, 2022, 09:51:35 AM
I watch a lot of these Wendover vids. This one is pretty good:

Australia Had a Mass-Shooting Problem. Here’s How it Stopped
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 15, 2022, 10:07:05 AM
Pretty sure Americans would spill blood if they tried to impose the metric system. So yeah, I can believe they'd spill blood over being told to turn in even one of their guns

they spilled blood over wokeness crt and masks.
they're nuts.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on June 23, 2022, 03:22:12 AM
Doubling down on retardedness, gun fuckers in New York are trying to use the medieval laws of England to allow the concealed carrying of handguns, stating that by the time the US was “formed” the right to carry was enshrined in English law as precedent.

I mean I don’t know where to start. I suppose the irony of using a country who doesn’t allow the carrying of firearms in public at all, as your basis for gun law maybe, or the fact that our laws are, on this premiss, the basis for about a third of the world and none of those countries great and small have more guns than people and are happy with periodic bouts of let’s kill the school Kids to prove we are free.

New-York’s lawyers have hit back with the 1328 Statute of Northampton (No really!), which dates to the reign of Edward III, which declares that nobody "except the King's servants in his presence" will "go nor ride armed by night nor by day" in fairs, markets "nor in no part elsewhere".


Apparently, the NRA vultures are now looking into the set of 14,000 years old carved stone pieces that were recently dug up as part of the Ice Age Island excavation at Les Varines in St Saviour on the Isle of Jersey, where Mill, son of Dag, scratched, “Clubs don’t kill people, people (and Sabre-tooth Tigers), kill people.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59158248
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on June 23, 2022, 06:25:15 AM
Same guys who also said jan06ers werent armed because they didnt bring guns or laughed at the lady who testified it was "a war zone".


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 03, 2022, 01:15:20 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919

Quote
Several people have been killed in a shooting at a shopping centre in the Danish capital Copenhagen, police say.

Announcing the deaths, police chief Soeren Thomassen said a 22-year-old ethnic Dane" has been arrested in connection with the attack.

Mr Thomassen said the motive was unclear, but that he could not rule out an "act of terrorism".

Eyewitnesses have spoken of panic among shoppers as gunfire rang out inside the Field's mall in the south of the city.

Emilie Jeppesen told Jyllands-Posten newspaper: "You didn't know what was happening. Suddenly there was just chaos everywhere."

Another witness, Mahdi Al-Wazni, told TV2 that the shooter had carried a "hunting rifle".

Speaking at a news conference on Sunday evening, Mr Thomassen said it was too early to say how many people had been harmed in the attack.

But he told reporters that there was no indication that other shooters were involved and urged shop owners to preserve any video surveillance footage they may have.

What does "ethnic Dane" mean?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on July 03, 2022, 01:44:31 PM
A politically correct term for "white"?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 04, 2022, 02:23:22 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919

Quote
Several people have been killed in a shooting at a shopping centre in the Danish capital Copenhagen, police say.

Announcing the deaths, police chief Soeren Thomassen said a 22-year-old ethnic Dane" has been arrested in connection with the attack.

Mr Thomassen said the motive was unclear, but that he could not rule out an "act of terrorism".

Eyewitnesses have spoken of panic among shoppers as gunfire rang out inside the Field's mall in the south of the city.

Emilie Jeppesen told Jyllands-Posten newspaper: "You didn't know what was happening. Suddenly there was just chaos everywhere."

Another witness, Mahdi Al-Wazni, told TV2 that the shooter had carried a "hunting rifle".

Speaking at a news conference on Sunday evening, Mr Thomassen said it was too early to say how many people had been harmed in the attack.

But he told reporters that there was no indication that other shooters were involved and urged shop owners to preserve any video surveillance footage they may have.

What does "ethnic Dane" mean?
It means their family history is danish and they are not an immigrant who got citizenship or child of an immigrant.
It doesn't just mean "white" as it wouldn't apply to say... A person who immigrated from France.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 04, 2022, 05:02:33 AM
Who knows what is lost in translation.   I think it is just the authorities at pains to point out this isn't an Islamic terrorist.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 04, 2022, 07:27:11 AM
Who knows what is lost in translation.   I think it is just the authorities at pains to point out this isn't an Islamic terrorist.
That.  Or just not a foriegner since denmark is part of the EU and thus travel/moving between nations is relatively easy.

So someone from Poland could move to Denmark.  And anytime bad things happen, 'foreigners' are often blamed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on July 04, 2022, 11:51:12 AM
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/7/4/23194354/highland-park-fourth-july-parade-gunfire

Chicago. 6 dead so far.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on July 04, 2022, 12:17:44 PM
Ah, Jesus.

:(

So now I guess the NRA can explain how America needs to arm and fortify parades.  Mounted machine guns on parade floats maybe?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 07, 2022, 01:58:46 AM
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/06/1110142336/uvalde-school-shooting-report

This part hit me with a giant WTF.

"The gunman, an 18-year-old with an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle, entered the building at 11:33 a.m. Before that a Uvalde police officer, who the report did not identify, saw the gunman carrying a rife toward the west hall entrance. The officer asked a supervisor for permission to open fire, but the supervisor "either did not hear or responded too late," the report said."

Like... if that guy was black, he'd have been dead before he got close to the door.  But nope, he was white and in Texas so carrying a rifle while walking towards a school door is weird but doesn't warrant actually shooting him without permission.  Apparently. >_>
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 07, 2022, 06:24:56 AM
Almost as if open-carry caused a lot of confusion...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on July 18, 2022, 03:30:11 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/07/17/uvalde-school-shooting-report/

376 police officers...

What the hell do we pay these people for?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 18, 2022, 04:49:13 PM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 26, 2022, 03:41:10 AM
https://gothamist.com/news/after-texas-shooting-nyc-considers-locking-main-doors-at-public-schools

NYC schools are considering locking the school doors from the outside. I think this will probably make it difficult to escape if there's a fire.
The fact you do not even know how doors work should disqualify you from life, let alone leaving comments on a thread about anything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 26, 2022, 03:43:55 AM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 26, 2022, 05:59:58 AM
Vegas
Buffalo mall
Highlandpark



You got 1.
Ah ok but i got 3.
I "win"

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 26, 2022, 11:02:59 AM
Vegas
Buffalo mall
Highlandpark



You got 1.
Ah ok but i got 3.
I "win"
The three you give come from "gun free" zones.

In other words, idiots like you, who do not care what words mean, ignore the words.

If you are going to ignore simple words, then you are likely to do other bad shit.

Plenty of other examples of people using firearms in defense of lives.

When guns are not restricted, people do use them in such a manner.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on July 26, 2022, 11:15:25 AM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 26, 2022, 11:38:06 AM
Vegas
Buffalo mall
Highlandpark



You got 1.
Ah ok but i got 3.
I "win"
The three you give come from "gun free" zones.

In other words, idiots like you, who do not care what words mean, ignore the words.

If you are going to ignore simple words, then you are likely to do other bad shit.

Plenty of other examples of people using firearms in defense of lives.

When guns are not restricted, people do use them in such a manner.


gun free zones?
buddy
vegas 490yards from a hotel room
let me know when a hand gun conceal carry can match that


highland
shooting from a roof.
very few people knew where the shots were coming from.
didn't know where to run.
fired three mags in about a min.
cops everywhere
no good guy got a shot off.


buffalo
armed guard shot the body armor.
hand gun failed to be powerful enough.
so now mall cops need to carrying higher capacity?
oh... wait
higher capacity means bullets can go through more things...
   https://www.reuters.com/world/us/parents-girl-shot-dead-dressing-room-by-los-angeles-police-call-justice-2021-12-28/




so what was the argument again?
that there are more or less armchair quarterbacks?

or your argument has turned now to gun free zones?
classic gishgallop.

hey here's one from your supposed home town - chicago.
apparently plenty of guns there.
why would there be so many shootings if there are so many guns?
i could've sworn the common talking point was that criminals wouldn't dare draw on a civilian whom they know is potentially packing.
yet...criminals draw on people they know are defensive and packing.
funny...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on July 26, 2022, 11:50:48 AM
Simple rule to fix mass shootings in the USA.

If you want to own a rifel with a magazine, you have to be an active member of a shooting/ gun club.

This gun club has to certify that you can operate a rifel with a magazine.

If you are involved in any death of another person with this rifel, the gun club gets closed down until an audit that the club is compliant is complete.

This way you can have ordinary citisens control who gets a dangerous weapon and who does not. No one wants a nutter in their club.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 26, 2022, 12:08:03 PM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 26, 2022, 12:11:00 PM
Vegas
Buffalo mall
Highlandpark



You got 1.
Ah ok but i got 3.
I "win"
The three you give come from "gun free" zones.

In other words, idiots like you, who do not care what words mean, ignore the words.

If you are going to ignore simple words, then you are likely to do other bad shit.

Plenty of other examples of people using firearms in defense of lives.

When guns are not restricted, people do use them in such a manner.


gun free zones?
buddy
vegas 490yards from a hotel room
let me know when a hand gun conceal carry can match that


highland
shooting from a roof.
very few people knew where the shots were coming from.
didn't know where to run.
fired three mags in about a min.
cops everywhere
no good guy got a shot off.


buffalo
armed guard shot the body armor.
hand gun failed to be powerful enough.
so now mall cops need to carrying higher capacity?
oh... wait
higher capacity means bullets can go through more things...
   https://www.reuters.com/world/us/parents-girl-shot-dead-dressing-room-by-los-angeles-police-call-justice-2021-12-28/




so what was the argument again?
that there are more or less armchair quarterbacks?

or your argument has turned now to gun free zones?
classic gishgallop.

hey here's one from your supposed home town - chicago.
apparently plenty of guns there.
why would there be so many shootings if there are so many guns?
i could've sworn the common talking point was that criminals wouldn't dare draw on a civilian whom they know is potentially packing.
yet...criminals draw on people they know are defensive and packing.
funny...
My hometown is not Chicago.

All of the areas where the shootings took place are "gun-free zones."

In other words, a criminal, who doesn't care about law, period, was operating.

Not gish gallop, as if you would have a clue what that means, to begin with.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 26, 2022, 12:54:32 PM
Yes
Its the 1st of many expectdd gish as you cant defend the 22-433 statistic.

So now we re on to gun free zones.
And once again - chicago.
Criminals have guns.
They draw on others with guns.
My point - gun free zone is as meaningless as gun zone.

Feel free discuss.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on July 26, 2022, 02:53:54 PM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Are you actually saying that all active shootings only ocurred in some sort of "gun free zone"?

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

Why don't you go ahead and explain how they are skewed rather than just claiming they are with zero foundation to support your claim.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Apparently not, considering you're making up something about gun free zones & skewed data.

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.

How would you know this? What are you basing this on?

From an FBI report regarding active shootings:

The 5 incidents that occurred on military property resulted in 27 killed and 43 wounded (including 5 law enforcement officers). The shooters ranged in age from 23 to 63. Most incidents occurred on Mondays (3) with the rest occurring on Thursdays (2). In all, police killed 3 shooters at the scene and apprehended 2 shooters at the scene. Two shooters had prior military service, 2 shooters had no military experience, and 1 shooter was an active duty member of the military.

Another incident amid cops, people who would shoot you, and out on the streets of Dallas which are certainly not "gun free zones" as you claim:

On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, shooting and killing five officers, and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded.

Hardly "gun-free zones" and hardly a place where you wouldn't get shot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 26, 2022, 03:11:59 PM
let's test his logic:

school shootings happen because it's a gun free zone.
if teachers and students had access to guns, then school shootings wouldn't happen.



then we say it out loud, hear it said out loud, and think actual thoughts with our brains.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on July 26, 2022, 03:41:42 PM
A lot of these school shooting morons have a death wish anyway. They choose schools for the infamy. Teachers being armed won't stop them. In fact it could help facilitate them as people who wouldn't ordinarily have access to a gun, now can find one on every teacher.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 26, 2022, 10:30:16 PM
Lets make schools gun zones again.

So anyone can walk in with a backpack full of guns and have the local cop stop them and say "excuse me sir... You dropped your pencil."

The Uvdalen schol shooting is exactly what it would look like.

Guy walks in, armed.  No one stops him.  Everyone waves.
Then he pulls his guns out, still fine.
Then he aims.  Apprehension.
Then he shoots.

Maybe he dies.  But if cops are too scared to engage, I'd bet others would be too.  Even armed others with no police training.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 03:40:10 AM
Yes
Its the 1st of many expectdd gish as you cant defend the 22-433 statistic.

So now we re on to gun free zones.
And once again - chicago.
Criminals have guns.
They draw on others with guns.
My point - gun free zone is as meaningless as gun zone.

Feel free discuss.
Discuss what?

Criminals not giving a fuck about the law?

Your desire to control what law-abiding citizens can or cannot own?

Your desire to see criminals run rampant in the streets, inflicting more harm on innocents?

Typical pro-death.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 03:50:42 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 04:24:57 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Nothing prevents death.

You AI are really showing your tendency toward syllogistic fallacy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 04:26:38 AM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Are you actually saying that all active shootings only ocurred in some sort of "gun free zone"?

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

Why don't you go ahead and explain how they are skewed rather than just claiming they are with zero foundation to support your claim.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Apparently not, considering you're making up something about gun free zones & skewed data.

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.

How would you know this? What are you basing this on?

From an FBI report regarding active shootings:

The 5 incidents that occurred on military property resulted in 27 killed and 43 wounded (including 5 law enforcement officers). The shooters ranged in age from 23 to 63. Most incidents occurred on Mondays (3) with the rest occurring on Thursdays (2). In all, police killed 3 shooters at the scene and apprehended 2 shooters at the scene. Two shooters had prior military service, 2 shooters had no military experience, and 1 shooter was an active duty member of the military.

Another incident amid cops, people who would shoot you, and out on the streets of Dallas which are certainly not "gun free zones" as you claim:

On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, shooting and killing five officers, and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded.

Hardly "gun-free zones" and hardly a place where you wouldn't get shot.
^AI trying to peddle off a military base as an area where everyone can walk around armed if they like.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 05:24:44 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Nothing prevents death.

You AI are really showing your tendency toward syllogistic fallacy.


Fine
Why would a gun no-free zone be beneficial?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 05:25:48 AM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Are you actually saying that all active shootings only ocurred in some sort of "gun free zone"?

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

Why don't you go ahead and explain how they are skewed rather than just claiming they are with zero foundation to support your claim.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Apparently not, considering you're making up something about gun free zones & skewed data.

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.

How would you know this? What are you basing this on?

From an FBI report regarding active shootings:

The 5 incidents that occurred on military property resulted in 27 killed and 43 wounded (including 5 law enforcement officers). The shooters ranged in age from 23 to 63. Most incidents occurred on Mondays (3) with the rest occurring on Thursdays (2). In all, police killed 3 shooters at the scene and apprehended 2 shooters at the scene. Two shooters had prior military service, 2 shooters had no military experience, and 1 shooter was an active duty member of the military.

Another incident amid cops, people who would shoot you, and out on the streets of Dallas which are certainly not "gun free zones" as you claim:

On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, shooting and killing five officers, and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded.

Hardly "gun-free zones" and hardly a place where you wouldn't get shot.
^AI trying to peddle off a military base as an area where everyone can walk around armed if they like.

If they like?
Maybe check out the marine gunner videos where they debunk that claim.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 05:30:18 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Nothing prevents death.

You AI are really showing your tendency toward syllogistic fallacy.


Fine
Why would a gun no-free zone be beneficial?
What is a gun no-free zone?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 27, 2022, 05:50:20 AM
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 05:54:35 AM
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone.
None of the areas you listed are gun-free zones.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 27, 2022, 06:04:43 AM
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone.
None of the areas you listed are gun-free zones.

O.o
Ok, just to check... How are libraries not gun free zones?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 07:10:56 AM
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone.
None of the areas you listed are gun-free zones.

O.o
Ok, just to check... How are libraries not gun free zones?
There are no gun-free zones, period.

There a "gun restricted zones." In other words, if you are such and such, you can possess a gun while here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 07:11:49 AM
let's test his logic:

school shootings happen because it's a gun free zone.
if teachers and students had access to guns, then school shootings wouldn't happen.



then we say it out loud, hear it said out loud, and think actual thoughts with our brains.
You cannot actually say anything out loud.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 07:25:01 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Nothing prevents death.

You AI are really showing your tendency toward syllogistic fallacy.


Fine
Why would a gun no-free zone be beneficial?
What is a gun no-free zone?

oh now we're in avoidance.

troll on you POS.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 07:27:02 AM
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone.
None of the areas you listed are gun-free zones.

O.o
Ok, just to check... How are libraries not gun free zones?
There are no gun-free zones, period.

There a "gun restricted zones." In other words, if you are such and such, you can possess a gun while here.

great
we know what gun-no-free-zones are.

now
how will possess a gun while in a such a zone be beneficial?
you brought it up.
you finish the thought.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 09:04:16 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Nothing prevents death.

You AI are really showing your tendency toward syllogistic fallacy.


Fine
Why would a gun no-free zone be beneficial?
What is a gun no-free zone?

oh now we're in avoidance.

troll on you POS.
GTFO, you non-sensical piece of AI garbage.
[/quote]
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone.
None of the areas you listed are gun-free zones.

O.o
Ok, just to check... How are libraries not gun free zones?
There are no gun-free zones, period.

There a "gun restricted zones." In other words, if you are such and such, you can possess a gun while here.

great
we know what gun-no-free-zones are.

now
how will possess a gun while in a such a zone be beneficial?
you brought it up.
you finish the thought.
Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 09:13:18 AM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 27, 2022, 11:10:54 AM
You missed the point
Lets try again.

How will a gun no-free zone prevent death?
Nothing prevents death.

You AI are really showing your tendency toward syllogistic fallacy.


Fine
Why would a gun no-free zone be beneficial?
What is a gun no-free zone?

oh now we're in avoidance.

troll on you POS.
GTFO, you non-sensical piece of AI garbage.
The UK is massive Gun Free Zone.
It does not have alot of mass shootings.

Airports are Gun Free Zones.  Almost no mass shootings there.

Libraries are Gun Free Zones.  Almost never get shot up.

Maybe the problem isn't if an area is or isn't a gun free zone.
None of the areas you listed are gun-free zones.

O.o
Ok, just to check... How are libraries not gun free zones?
There are no gun-free zones, period.

There a "gun restricted zones." In other words, if you are such and such, you can possess a gun while here.

great
we know what gun-no-free-zones are.

now
how will possess a gun while in a such a zone be beneficial?
you brought it up.
you finish the thought.
Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.
[/quote]

This is actually a false correlation.
There are less crimes in general in areas of lower population density.  Which coincide with areas of less gun restrictions.

Think Vermont, the midwest, and basically areas that aren't major cities.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 12:14:12 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 12:18:21 PM
This is actually a false correlation.
There are less crimes in general in areas of lower population density.  Which coincide with areas of less gun restrictions.

Think Vermont, the midwest, and basically areas that aren't major cities.
It is actually a true correlation.

If the areas in question allowed for legal ownership and the constitutional right to carry, you would see a drastic drop in gun deaths.

Just as there is in areas where it is allowed.

If people are allowed to protect themselves with instruments of protection, there is less likely a chance of falling victim to lawless thugs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 12:30:51 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.





If the areas in question allowed for legal ownership and the constitutional right to carry, you would see a drastic drop in gun deaths.

Just as there is in areas where it is allowed.

If people are allowed to protect themselves with instruments of protection, there is less likely a chance of falling victim to lawless thugs.

all you've done was restate your theory.
but never finished the thought.

your theory is that guns will prevent criminals from shooting at you.
but the criminals don't fear guns.
so why would a law abiding person with a gun prevent a criminal witha  gun, when a cirminal with a gun can't prevent a criminal witha  gun?

who's more lethal prey?
a criminal who's on guard, or a law abider?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on July 27, 2022, 01:40:47 PM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Are you actually saying that all active shootings only ocurred in some sort of "gun free zone"?

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

Why don't you go ahead and explain how they are skewed rather than just claiming they are with zero foundation to support your claim.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Apparently not, considering you're making up something about gun free zones & skewed data.

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.

How would you know this? What are you basing this on?

From an FBI report regarding active shootings:

The 5 incidents that occurred on military property resulted in 27 killed and 43 wounded (including 5 law enforcement officers). The shooters ranged in age from 23 to 63. Most incidents occurred on Mondays (3) with the rest occurring on Thursdays (2). In all, police killed 3 shooters at the scene and apprehended 2 shooters at the scene. Two shooters had prior military service, 2 shooters had no military experience, and 1 shooter was an active duty member of the military.

Another incident amid cops, people who would shoot you, and out on the streets of Dallas which are certainly not "gun free zones" as you claim:

On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, shooting and killing five officers, and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded.

Hardly "gun-free zones" and hardly a place where you wouldn't get shot.
^AI trying to peddle off a military base as an area where everyone can walk around armed if they like.

I can walk around Texas fully armed if I like. You're saying people on military bases are never armed??? There are no weapons on military bases???

Hmmmm...

(https://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2021/2021-06-28/37232eab-4eba-418f-a536-c23b38e08926.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 27, 2022, 02:42:15 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.

Please state these areas.  I'd like to do my own research.
Because, well... being vague about such information is often a sign of... lies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 08:46:39 PM
Its amazing to see the armchair warriors "if i was there idve ended it".
Yes it is good to see them ending things right away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting

There were at least 433 active shooter attacks — in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place — in the United States from 2000 to 2021. The country experienced an average of more than one a week in 2021 alone.

But armed bystanders shooting attackers was not common in the data — 22 cases out of 433. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer.

“The actual data show that some of these kind of heroic, Hollywood moments of armed citizens taking out active shooters are just extraordinarily rare,” Mr. Lankford said.


Good guys with guns: 12 out of 433.
Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Are you actually saying that all active shootings only ocurred in some sort of "gun free zone"?

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

Why don't you go ahead and explain how they are skewed rather than just claiming they are with zero foundation to support your claim.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Apparently not, considering you're making up something about gun free zones & skewed data.

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.

How would you know this? What are you basing this on?

From an FBI report regarding active shootings:

The 5 incidents that occurred on military property resulted in 27 killed and 43 wounded (including 5 law enforcement officers). The shooters ranged in age from 23 to 63. Most incidents occurred on Mondays (3) with the rest occurring on Thursdays (2). In all, police killed 3 shooters at the scene and apprehended 2 shooters at the scene. Two shooters had prior military service, 2 shooters had no military experience, and 1 shooter was an active duty member of the military.

Another incident amid cops, people who would shoot you, and out on the streets of Dallas which are certainly not "gun free zones" as you claim:

On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, shooting and killing five officers, and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded.

Hardly "gun-free zones" and hardly a place where you wouldn't get shot.
^AI trying to peddle off a military base as an area where everyone can walk around armed if they like.

I can walk around Texas fully armed if I like. You're saying people on military bases are never armed??? There are no weapons on military bases???

Hmmmm...

(https://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2021/2021-06-28/37232eab-4eba-418f-a536-c23b38e08926.jpeg)
You can't walk around a military base in Texas fully armed.

Shove your hyperbole up your rectum where it belongs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 08:50:41 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.





If the areas in question allowed for legal ownership and the constitutional right to carry, you would see a drastic drop in gun deaths.

Just as there is in areas where it is allowed.

If people are allowed to protect themselves with instruments of protection, there is less likely a chance of falling victim to lawless thugs.

all you've done was restate your theory.
but never finished the thought.

your theory is that guns will prevent criminals from shooting at you.
but the criminals don't fear guns.
so why would a law abiding person with a gun prevent a criminal witha  gun, when a cirminal with a gun can't prevent a criminal witha  gun?

who's more lethal prey?
a criminal who's on guard, or a law abider?
Law abiding people who own guns are more effective with using a gun than are criminals, and better trained on proper and effective use.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 27, 2022, 08:52:32 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.

Please state these areas.  I'd like to do my own research.
Because, well... being vague about such information is often a sign of... lies.
Stating you would like to do your own research is the biggest lie you ever wrote.


You have the location - Chicago.

Buy a goddamn ticket and go there and look around.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 09:09:15 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.





If the areas in question allowed for legal ownership and the constitutional right to carry, you would see a drastic drop in gun deaths.

Just as there is in areas where it is allowed.

If people are allowed to protect themselves with instruments of protection, there is less likely a chance of falling victim to lawless thugs.

all you've done was restate your theory.
but never finished the thought.

your theory is that guns will prevent criminals from shooting at you.
but the criminals don't fear guns.
so why would a law abiding person with a gun prevent a criminal witha  gun, when a cirminal with a gun can't prevent a criminal witha  gun?

who's more lethal prey?
a criminal who's on guard, or a law abider?
Law abiding people who own guns are more effective with using a gun than are criminals, and better trained on proper and effective use.


How you figure?
Licensing dont require certification or being a part of a well regulated militia or gun club.


And if you REEEAALLY want to try that line of thought, i can give you a bjnch of quick youtubes of PROFESSIONAL law ENFORCING citizens unable to priperly handle a gun in a tense (and many normal!) situation.


So again.
Since you dodged it.
How will law abiding citizens deter a criminal from shooting at them?

To cut to the chase - they wont - because chicago.
So the best you have is a reactive scenario.
And in that rwactive scenario the 22:400 greatly out numbers your claim.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 27, 2022, 09:31:15 PM

Active shooter attacks occur in places designated as "gun-free zones."

Your stats are meaningless because they are skewed.

You really struggle with basic understanding, don't you?

Good guys obey the law.

Active shooters desiring to harm people do not operate where the odds of getting shot themselves are high.


Actually ill agree
Stats are meaningless.
22:400 is nonsense unless we compare gun no-free zones with outcome.
320 have no repevance if they werent any armed good guys.

However - Chicago
So the point stands.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 27, 2022, 11:02:07 PM

Statistics show there is less criminal application of a firearm in areas where the laws allow for ordinary citizens to possess and carry firearms.

great
"more guns means less crime."

then back to chicago.
so we have people with guns getting shot at by other people with guns.
why isn't there less crime?
Because for the most part, law-abiding people do not have guns, and in Chicago you have large population of criminal gangs who use illegally obtained firearms to commit acts of gun violence.

I happen to know of some areas though in the city proper where law-abiding people do have guns.

No gangland shootings taking place there.

Please state these areas.  I'd like to do my own research.
Because, well... being vague about such information is often a sign of... lies.
Stating you would like to do your own research is the biggest lie you ever wrote.


You have the location - Chicago.

Buy a goddamn ticket and go there and look around.

Chicago is a big area.   And without signs saying "Good guys with guns here" how am I to know which areas have good guys with guns and which don't?

Also, I've been around NYC, all 5 burrows.  Never saw a gun, let alone gun violence.
I guess that means NYC doesn't have any.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 28, 2022, 03:45:36 AM
Sparing everyone the need to reread all your woeful typing.
Being licensed has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to properly handle a firearm.

Like a car.

I can get a license and still drive like shit.

Go ahead and show the professional law-enforcing citizens, whatever the fuck that means.

God, no one can ever figure out wtf you are communicating.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on July 28, 2022, 03:46:48 AM

Chicago is a big area.   And without signs saying "Good guys with guns here" how am I to know which areas have good guys with guns and which don't?
Yeah, after all the talk about how CAPABLE you are to figure things out.

Shame.

Also, I've been around NYC, all 5 burrows.  Never saw a gun, let alone gun violence.
I guess that means NYC doesn't have any.
Shame again.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 28, 2022, 04:52:56 AM

Chicago is a big area.   And without signs saying "Good guys with guns here" how am I to know which areas have good guys with guns and which don't?
Yeah, after all the talk about how CAPABLE you are to figure things out.

Shame.

Also, I've been around NYC, all 5 burrows.  Never saw a gun, let alone gun violence.
I guess that means NYC doesn't have any.
Shame again.

Lack of data leads to improper conclusions.  I wouldn't want to have a lack of data, like say... Walking into an area and not seeing anything because its a heavy gang turf and everyone was asleep or something.

Its important to know where to focus my efforts.  But if you don't actually know... Well... Just say so.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 28, 2022, 06:23:40 AM
Sparing everyone the need to reread all your woeful typing.
Being licensed has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to properly handle a firearm.

Like a car.

I can get a license and still drive like shit.

Go ahead and show the professional law-enforcing citizens, whatever the fuck that means. [That would be cops    you say law abiding citizens.
 I saw law-enforcing citizens.   Not conplicated.   Are you not smart? 
]

God, no one can ever figure out wtf you are communicating.


You can get a driving license.
But you had to pass a proficiency test.

You can get a gun.
Dont need to pass a proficiency test.
Or get insurance.
Or register it.
You really wnat to gish gallop to the very-bad-for-you talking points of automotive regulation?



However
Attemptung to keep you still on track -


Your claim - criminals will think twice when drawing on an armed citizen.

Also your claim - chicago criminals draw on other criminals knowing they have guns.

New insert - gun proficinecy is the differing factor on the prey.

Counter - proficiency is not you just made that up.





Cops










Theres lots.

I think a young man was mag dumped on by 7cops.
Jayland walker.
So either they cant handle stress (all 7) or they executed him.
Not good options.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on August 08, 2022, 11:05:01 AM


Sucked in Alex Jones! Fat fugly destestable cunt
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on August 08, 2022, 12:05:10 PM
what happened to Lackless?
he brain short circuit over the chicago paradox?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on October 12, 2022, 02:42:30 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

https://nypost.com/2022/10/12/alex-jones-must-pay-sandy-hook-families-965m-in-second-defamation-trial/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=2431022

Quote
Alex Jones was ordered to pay $965 million to families of victims of the Sandy Hook massacre by a Connecticut jury on Wednesday — in the second defamation ruling against the conspiracy theorist for his claims that the 2012 mass shooting was a hoax.

The far-right Infowars host has repeatedly claimed the shooting was a media fabrication, denying that gunman Adam Lanza slaughtered 26 people at the elementary school and then himself on Dec. 14, 2012.

Families of the victims said Jones profited off their suffering, amassing tens of millions of dollars by repeating the lies that drove clicks to his website Infowars and helped him hawk merchandise.


Sucked in you fat, tubby, piece of sub human shit!

AHAHAHAHA!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on October 12, 2022, 03:19:32 PM
He, like trump, are milking his followers to donate to his recovery cause


Insane

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 22, 2022, 11:26:51 AM
The Associated Press: 'It's the reflex': Veteran helped disarm gunman at gay club.
https://apnews.com/9e454614a9514a8e425eded9826a7def

A shooting at a gay nightclub.

The attacker was taken down a military veteran and a drag queen. Quite the crime fighting Duo. Then the cops came and arrested the guy who subdued the attacker.

I'm starting to think that the police aren't very reliable for handling mass shooting. Best to call a drag queen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on November 22, 2022, 11:35:20 AM
Those people at the gay club will turn your children Non-binary and some made up sexuality.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 22, 2022, 11:40:51 AM
Those people at the gay club will turn your children Non-binary and some made up sexuality.
While teaching them to disarm and stop a bad guy with a gun. 

Sounds worth it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on November 22, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
Those people at the gay club will turn your children Non-binary and some made up sexuality.
While teaching them to disarm and stop a bad guy with a gun. 

Sounds worth it.

Is it worth making your Children identify as a Helicopter and identify as Gymsexual?
To be fair, Gen z is already batshit crazy like that so I couldn't give a shit anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on November 22, 2022, 12:08:51 PM
I can get a license and still drive like shit.
Does leaving loaded guns in your unlocked car at a school count as bad driving or is it still just an example of your bad gun safety?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 23, 2022, 03:10:35 PM
https://denvergazette.com/continuing-coverage/club-q-shooting/accused-club-q-shooter-changed-name-at-15-dad-was-mma-and-porn-star-mom/article_ddb4e564-6a74-11ed-b674-9fca61c5f9c9.html

The Colorado shooter turned out to be a bit different. (all the msm are now respecting his they/them pronouns)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 23, 2022, 03:46:11 PM
The shooters dad got interviewed....

The Colorado shooter’s dad on finding out his son murdered people: “They started telling me about the incident, a shooting... And then I go on to find out it’s a gay bar. I got scared, ‘Shit, is he gay?’ And he’s not gay, so I said, phew… I am a conservative Republican.”

https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1595519454900805649

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 23, 2022, 04:46:42 PM
His dad looks and acts like a long time meth user.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 23, 2022, 07:42:40 PM
His dad looks and acts like a long time meth user.

He looks half zonked on something, the way his head keeps lolling about and those weird eyes.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 24, 2022, 02:41:34 AM
https://denvergazette.com/continuing-coverage/club-q-shooting/accused-club-q-shooter-changed-name-at-15-dad-was-mma-and-porn-star-mom/article_ddb4e564-6a74-11ed-b674-9fca61c5f9c9.html

The Colorado shooter turned out to be a bit different. (all the msm are now respecting his they/them pronouns)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 25, 2022, 02:33:27 PM
Walmart shooter biught gun mor ing of.

Of course we wiuldnt want to enact sensible gun laws because it hurts law abding consumers who 99.9 need their gun right away and like a child cant wait.

Usa
Usa
Usa



https://www.cp24.com/world/walmart-shooter-left-death-note-bought-gun-day-of-killing-1.6168891
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 26, 2022, 12:30:54 AM
The only Wal mart I've been in was in China. Nice enough place. People chopping up and selling durian fruit out the front gave it a nice aroma. Walmart has nothing on Korea's 'e mart' though.

I was able to get in and out of the Wal Mart many times without a single bullet fired. (Or have my eyes soiled by fat arses in their ill fitting pyjamas). What is wrong with America? What is compelling your guys to kill each other?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 26, 2022, 01:15:42 AM
The only Wal mart I've been in was in China. Nice enough place. People chopping up and selling durian fruit out the front gave it a nice aroma. Walmart has nothing on Korea's 'e mart' though.

I was able to get in and out of the Wal Mart many times without a single bullet fired. (Or have my eyes soiled by fat arses in their ill fitting pyjamas). What is wrong with America? What is compelling your guys to kill each other?

Wikipedia.
Kill a bunch of people and you get your own wikipedia page.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 12:13:06 AM
The only Wal mart I've been in was in China. Nice enough place. People chopping up and selling durian fruit out the front gave it a nice aroma. Walmart has nothing on Korea's 'e mart' though.

I was able to get in and out of the Wal Mart many times without a single bullet fired. (Or have my eyes soiled by fat arses in their ill fitting pyjamas). What is wrong with America? What is compelling your guys to kill each other?

Do you ever watch what happens on the roads in China? What is wrong with China? Why do they all just run over people?

You're not CCP. I was wrong. You're just using China as the model for your gay fascist super-state.

Because you don't have self awareness, you often go too far. Pay more attention to Crouton and Jura. Sometimes it's best to say nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheLobster on November 29, 2022, 02:13:52 AM
gay fascist super-state.
I'm intrigued.  Tell me more.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 02:22:31 AM
Pretty much what Orwell described except gay.

That was funny I was just going to post that but I'll describe it in more detail because I believe you are actually curious.

Our shall we say less humanitarian focussed western elites are very jealous of the success of the Chinese totalitarian communist state. You can understand, our elites need to do so much work to get their way while still having people believe they live in a democracy. I don't doubt it is very difficult and requires genuinely exceptional minds.

They see the Chinese elites and in their jealousy are pushing the west towards a similar totalitarian model. Oddly enough the most recent support for fascism in the west has been justified by fighting fascism.

They get excited when they can do things like that and I personally believe they are pushing too far too quickly not to have to use open military force against citizens to achieve their goals.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 29, 2022, 02:25:23 AM
Looking at China right now, 'success' is hardly a word that comes to mind
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 02:28:51 AM
It will be interesting to see what the CCP does about these protests, I'm also interested as to what level of human rights abuses the Chinese can commit while Western leaders praise their policies.

Do Fauci and Tedros still think China is setting an example for the world on covid policy? I haven't checked.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on November 29, 2022, 02:28:59 AM
Pretty much what Orwell described except gay.

That was funny I was just going to post that but I'll describe it in more detail because I believe you are actually curious.

Our shall we say less humanitarian focussed western elites are very jealous of the success of the Chinese totalitarian communist state. You can understand, our elites need to do so much work to get their way while still having people believe they live in a democracy. I don't doubt it is very difficult and requires genuinely exceptional minds.

They see the Chinese elites and in their jealousy are pushing the west towards a similar totalitarian model. Oddly enough the most recent support for fascism in the west has been justified by fighting fascism.

They get excited when they can do things like that and I personally believe they are pushing too far too quickly not to have to use open military force against citizens to achieve their goals.

You left out the gay part. A description of fascism is beyond boring. But Gay Fascism, now that's scintillating!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 02:32:29 AM
You left out the gay part.
You have no depth in your perception.

Oddly enough the most recent support for fascism in the west has been justified by fighting fascism.
Shifter has said that speech should be a privilege, and not a right, so that we don't offend gay people as an example.

It's a joke.
You get jokes, right?
Oh, nevermind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on November 29, 2022, 02:33:12 AM
It will be interesting to see what the CCP does about these protests, I'm also interested as to what level of human rights abuses the Chinese can commit while Western leaders praise their policies.

Do Fauci and Tedros still think China is setting an example for the world on covid policy? I haven't checked.

Don't know about this Tedros person, but apparently Fauci doesn't think so...

Fauci called China's 'zero-COVID' policy 'draconian' and says lockdowns 'should always be a temporary phenomenon'
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 02:35:23 AM
It will be interesting to see what the CCP does about these protests, I'm also interested as to what level of human rights abuses the Chinese can commit while Western leaders praise their policies.

Do Fauci and Tedros still think China is setting an example for the world on covid policy? I haven't checked.

Don't know about this Tedros person, but apparently Fauci doesn't think so...

Fauci called China's 'zero-COVID' policy 'draconian' and says lockdowns 'should always be a temporary phenomenon'

So he changed his mind.

I had hoped this was the case.

Originally they were praising China's covid response. It seems the only issue is the duration of it. I agree with Fauci, even Australian politicians had the self awareness to temporarily take their boots off our necks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on November 29, 2022, 02:42:30 AM
Oh look, another thread derailed into another boring covid thread. Thanks dipshitone
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on November 29, 2022, 02:42:33 AM
It will be interesting to see what the CCP does about these protests, I'm also interested as to what level of human rights abuses the Chinese can commit while Western leaders praise their policies.

Do Fauci and Tedros still think China is setting an example for the world on covid policy? I haven't checked.

Don't know about this Tedros person, but apparently Fauci doesn't think so...

Fauci called China's 'zero-COVID' policy 'draconian' and says lockdowns 'should always be a temporary phenomenon'

So he changed his mind.

I had hoped this was the case.

Originally they were praising China's covid response. It seems the only issue is the duration of it. I agree with Fauci, even Australian politicians had the self awareness to temporarily take their boots off our necks.

When was Fauci praising China's approach?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 02:46:21 AM
It will be interesting to see what the CCP does about these protests, I'm also interested as to what level of human rights abuses the Chinese can commit while Western leaders praise their policies.

Do Fauci and Tedros still think China is setting an example for the world on covid policy? I haven't checked.

Don't know about this Tedros person, but apparently Fauci doesn't think so...

Fauci called China's 'zero-COVID' policy 'draconian' and says lockdowns 'should always be a temporary phenomenon'

So he changed his mind.

I had hoped this was the case.

Originally they were praising China's covid response. It seems the only issue is the duration of it. I agree with Fauci, even Australian politicians had the self awareness to temporarily take their boots off our necks.

When was Fauci praising China's approach?

At the start of the pandemic.
So was Tedros.

Stash would you like to play another game? Jura can help but I think you can do this on your own, maybe. Based on the information you can find in this thread, who is "this Tedros person" I have mentioned?

Shifter the protests in China are about the CCPs covid policy. You can't escape that.

I'm happy to talk about that in the China thread.

Since no one wants to talk about the trans-anti-trans mass shooter anymore.
lol.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 29, 2022, 03:33:08 AM
I would love to help:

Tedros Haile Gabriel Selassie is an Ethiopian former leader and top runner for Dr Who, he’s a fanboy of the Chinese who not only bought his running shoes but his director generalship, he is most likely corrupt not because of any of the above but because all these huge monolithic intergovernmental organisations that purport to have our best interests at heart are the stomping grounds for the power hungry, the unprincipled and greedy who would sell the blood of their children to whoever pays them.

He is also revered by Rasta's as a god.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 29, 2022, 03:46:44 AM
You are correct of course.
I really like you.
(No homo)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 29, 2022, 04:13:35 AM

Just as well but we’ll keep it to knuckle bumps for the time being, the British hug only their children, and then usually just the once as they send them off to boarding school, of course they all come back as screaming queens then but are told to “pack that in” and spend some time in the forces as we all know “they” make the best soldiers.

This is Americas problem, instead of subtle repression, enough to turn the hate outwards towards the Hun or whichever John foreigner threatens our daughters, America with it’s puritan background truly hates gays, the British way stops them from getting all colourful and loud, redirects their resentment to the formation of the SAS or the desert patrol group give them a Batman to abuse and then leaves them to it.

Luckily I didn’t go to boarding school.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 05:09:21 AM
The CIA, in one of their more full disclosure days (they occasionally release unclassified articles on their library to the public, known as the World Factbook and the Electronic Reading Room), mentioned the cause of mass shootings.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/home
You can find it too! If you can make your way through it. The search engine is rather "do it your own damn self" giving you results that may or may not be relevant, and having over 100 pages of searches. Basically, I think I found it in 2016 or 2017, but now having to wade through it was a no.

Basically, certain groups in trying to take over the government commit violence, then are first in the scene as crisis actors. Over and over again, they use the same son story about how they were badly "injured" during this terrible mass shooting. Typically the same twenty or thirty people with the occasional dye job or hair extensions. Only, when the area is disarmed, they take over. The area doesn't get any less violent, in the contrary, areas with heavy gun control against lawful citizens often has rampant violence against them, and laws that make it only allowable to fight back after a person has already had time to shoot you dead, because it requires a struggle or proper negotiation or some other bullshit, you can't just fire first.

(https://media.snopes.com/2015/10/same-girl-crying-oregon.jpg)

Snopes declared this "false" because she has a different name. No duh she has a different name. It's called facial recognition. Computers can do it, but so can people.

The goal of this violence is directed. (1) Have a violent shooting hoax to get people to vote "yes" to gun control. (2) Start killing people as criminals to change demographics. (3) When you have a demographic majority, vote with the new demographics based on the terrorists' policies (e.g. If the terrorist are Muslim, more hijabs and Sharia law; if they're communist, more economic socialism).

The CIA names either Weather Underground or something about students organization. Basically, college age kids are roped into this terrorist group. But the thing is, the CIA might be blaming a third party for what they themselves have done. Grain of salt, but the above 3 points stand regardless.

(https://allnewspipeline.com/images/disarm_Americans_agenda.png)

Easy target.

So the next time you're goaded into giving up your firearms, think about who is trying to make you do this. The same people who committed violence against innocent children in schools are now telling you to give up your guns. No. Like in Switzerland, everyone including children above a certain age should own firearms, be taught to use them, and be taught how to do so responsibly. If this is too much for us, everyone with violent criminal record or bad psychiatric record is unable to hold one, and the rest gets a gun owner's license (similar to driving a car) at like 21 or so.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 29, 2022, 07:57:55 AM
to use them, and be taught how to do so responsibly. If this is too much for us, everyone with violent criminal record or bad psychiatric record is unable to hold one, and the rest gets a gun owner's license (similar to driving a car) at like 21 or so.



Sounds like youre for expanded backgrohnd checks
Wait times
Red flag laws
And ending private sales?


Good stuff
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on November 29, 2022, 11:02:15 AM
Snopes declared this "false" because she has a different name. No duh she has a different name. It's called facial recognition. Computers can do it, but so can people.

OMG! You're one of those??? The Alex Jones , "they're all crisis actors" thing?  Disgusting.

Your meme is from 2015:

What was fake on the Internet this week: Pope magic, flu-shot pregnancy and sharks in the streets (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/10/09/what-was-fake-on-the-internet-this-week-pope-magic-flu-shot-pregnancies-and-sharks-in-the-streets/)

4. Mourners and witnesses at the scene of the Oregon shooting were not “crisis actors.” Among conspiracy theorists, the specter of the “crisis actor” is particularly compelling: They argue that the same people appear repeatedly at mass shooting events, faking grief for a tragedy that never really happened. (Under this perverse theory of the world, the government orchestrates fake tragedies in order to force greater gun control.) Predictably, in the wake of the school shooting in Roseburg, Ore., last week, theorists came out with fresh “evidence” that crisis actors exist: blurry photos and videos of people whom they claim have appeared at shootings in the past.

And snopes doesn't just present different names as you shallowly claim. Photo evidence among other stuff as well.

You are absolutely horrible and obviously not very bright to fall for this insanity.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 29, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
The CIA, in one of their more full disclosure days (they occasionally release unclassified articles on their library to the public, known as the World Factbook and the Electronic Reading Room), mentioned the cause of mass shootings.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/home
You can find it too! If you can make your way through it. The search engine is rather "do it your own damn self" giving you results that may or may not be relevant, and having over 100 pages of searches. Basically, I think I found it in 2016 or 2017, but now having to wade through it was a no.

Basically, certain groups in trying to take over the government commit violence, then are first in the scene as crisis actors. Over and over again, they use the same son story about how they were badly "injured" during this terrible mass shooting. Typically the same twenty or thirty people with the occasional dye job or hair extensions. Only, when the area is disarmed, they take over. The area doesn't get any less violent, in the contrary, areas with heavy gun control against lawful citizens often has rampant violence against them, and laws that make it only allowable to fight back after a person has already had time to shoot you dead, because it requires a struggle or proper negotiation or some other bullshit, you can't just fire first.

(https://media.snopes.com/2015/10/same-girl-crying-oregon.jpg)

Snopes declared this "false" because she has a different name. No duh she has a different name. It's called facial recognition. Computers can do it, but so can people.
Same exact girl?  That's racist!


Quote
The goal of this violence is directed. (1) Have a violent shooting hoax to get people to vote "yes" to gun control. (2) Start killing people as criminals to change demographics. (3) When you have a demographic majority, vote with the new demographics based on the terrorists' policies (e.g. If the terrorist are Muslim, more hijabs and Sharia law; if they're communist, more economic socialism).
(1) this usually doesn't work.
(2) The only major demographic being killed as criminals are black folks.  So... that means the demographics to get is.... whites?
(3) This does explain why the new policies like Anti-Abortion, Anti-Vaccinations, anti-Critical Race, and really anti-progressive are all the rage.

Quote
The CIA names either Weather Underground or something about students organization. Basically, college age kids are roped into this terrorist group. But the thing is, the CIA might be blaming a third party for what they themselves have done. Grain of salt, but the above 3 points stand regardless.

(https://allnewspipeline.com/images/disarm_Americans_agenda.png)

Easy target.

So the next time you're goaded into giving up your firearms, think about who is trying to make you do this. The same people who committed violence against innocent children in schools are now telling you to give up your guns. No. Like in Switzerland, everyone including children above a certain age should own firearms, be taught to use them, and be taught how to do so responsibly. If this is too much for us, everyone with violent criminal record or bad psychiatric record is unable to hold one, and the rest gets a gun owner's license (similar to driving a car) at like 21 or so.
We literally have children walking into schools killing their classmates.  Hell, we have police officers IGNORING signs of violent intent and going "Oh well" when that giant red flag turns into a bloody one.

And you wanna talk about Switzerland?
https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/owning-a-weapon-in-switzerland/#which-weapons-require-which-permits

Summary:
You need a permit for most common guns like pistols and semi-automatic rifles with a small magazine.  But here's a list of weapons that ARE banned...

"semi-automatic firearms with a large magazine, machine guns, electric shock devices, daggers, automatic blades, butterfly knives and knuckledusters"

You also can't carry a weapon on you without a permit.
And you can't have one if there's a possibility that you're a violent person.  AKA red flag laws.  AKA the laws you're telling us the CIA is making.


BTW: Still waiting for Obama to take all our guns, put is all in FEMA camps, and implement Shair law.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on November 29, 2022, 03:10:02 PM
Crazy batshit insane conspiracy theories in my conspiracy forum?  It's more common than you think.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 30, 2022, 07:31:39 AM
Obama already implemented Sharia law.

Obamacare is a tax on all people without insurance, including those who have moral objections to buying healthcare insurance. But pay attention to who is exempt.

Religious groups that have a medical sharing plan. Like the Amish... and the Muslims.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 30, 2022, 07:40:45 AM
Obama already implemented Sharia law.

Obamacare is a tax on all people without insurance, including those who have moral objections to buying healthcare insurance. But pay attention to who is exempt.

Religious groups that have a medical sharing plan. Like the Amish... and the Muslims.
And Christians.

So like... Shair law.  Muslim law, is, in its entirely, a healthcare tax?
Is that the entire rulebook of Islam? 
"And god said to me... The only law, is to tax those who have no healthcare!"???
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 30, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
Obama already implemented Sharia law.

Obamacare is a tax on all people without insurance, including those who have moral objections to buying healthcare insurance. But pay attention to who is exempt.

Religious groups that have a medical sharing plan. Like the Amish... and the Muslims.


How is that sharia law?

did you give your 10th to the church?
you realize back in the waaaay day the church was in charge of social programs, using the tax to fund the programs and or redistribute.

you know what a tax is?

my goodnesss....


medical sharing plan?
SHARING PLAN AS IN THEY TAX THEMSELVS AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES AS A COMMUNITY?
are you a moron?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 30, 2022, 11:35:13 AM

Fuck me! Bulmia must be a troll.

You do realise it is more likely the gun lobby does these killings, as after each time you sacrifice your children to the NRA, the amount of gun buying goes up, 1.7 million in November alone.

And of course gun deaths rise as a result, 19,000 so far this year, but hey they are your kids, collateral damage for your rights, brilliant

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/12/01/gun-sales-near-record-levels-as-us-grapples-with-another-school-shooting/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on November 30, 2022, 01:34:19 PM

Fuck me! Bulmia must be a troll.

You do realise it is more likely the gun lobby does these killings, as after each time you sacrifice your children to the NRA, the amount of gun buying goes up, 1.7 million in November alone.

And of course gun deaths rise as a result, 19,000 so far this year, but hey they are your kids, collateral damage for your rights, brilliant

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/12/01/gun-sales-near-record-levels-as-us-grapples-with-another-school-shooting/

Yep.
And gun restrictions just never seem to take.  Its always "Too soon!" or "Don't politicize this senseless tragedy that could only have been prevented if more people had guns."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheLobster on November 30, 2022, 01:58:54 PM
Obama already implemented Sharia law.
You learn something new every day.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on November 30, 2022, 02:15:56 PM
Obama already implemented Sharia law.

Sharia law? Bizarre and deluded.

Who pays for your meds & healthcare?

And you know how we could have affordable healthcare for everyone? If the goddamned religions in this country weren't tax exempt. We're talking billions and billions of forgone tax revenue. And for what?

You Christians need to pony up some dough.

Religious groups that have a medical sharing plan. Like the Amish... and the Muslims.

Yes, religious groups do have medical sharing plans. Like how Christians do...

Christian Healthcare Ministries
Christian Healthcare Ministries is a membership-based, nonprofit ministry through which hundreds of thousands of Christians voluntarily share to pay each other’s medical bills.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 30, 2022, 03:16:55 PM

Fuck me! Bulmia must be a troll.


How can you tell?!!!

 :P
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on November 30, 2022, 03:37:35 PM
Obama already implemented Sharia law.

Sharia law? Bizarre and deluded.

Who pays for your meds & healthcare?

And you know how we could have affordable healthcare for everyone? If the goddamned religions in this country weren't tax exempt. We're talking billions and billions of forgone tax revenue. And for what?

You Christians need to pony up some dough.

Religious groups that have a medical sharing plan. Like the Amish... and the Muslims.

Yes, religious groups do have medical sharing plans. Like how Christians do...

Christian Healthcare Ministries
Christian Healthcare Ministries is a membership-based, nonprofit ministry through which hundreds of thousands of Christians voluntarily share to pay each other’s medical bills.


No more wondering why the USA is about the only country in the world that doesn't understand healthcare.    They don't know what it is....

They don't know what Sharia law involves either.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on November 30, 2022, 04:33:24 PM
CHM

For the athesits - its a pay-for-get-nothing.

Sums it up in the name...








(Im not an atheist and these "christian" shitheads piss me off)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 30, 2022, 06:26:28 PM
Does John Oliver fear and love God?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 01, 2022, 01:33:38 AM


Love and fear God! That’s one fucked up relationship, but back to the thread. What would Jesus do about all the children dying because morons have been brainwashed into believing that small arms are a necessity by Smith & Wesson’s marketing department?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 01:42:41 AM
Jura. I don't want to to this with you. I don't think it would be an honest conversation. The world is a cruel and unfair place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 01, 2022, 02:57:56 AM
Does John Oliver fear and love God?

You should rush over there, waving a bible, shouting "repent you sinners, Jesus is your lord and saviour" 

In fact, why wait,  run down to the nearest shopping center and start right away. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 03:44:03 AM
I long since shook the dust off my feet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 01, 2022, 04:11:35 AM

Why do you not think we could have an honest discussion on this? Your recent conversion has clearly had a profound effect on your thinking, and I am curious to see if you have any fundamental changes in your outlook, which to be honest I consider having been pretty toxic in the past.

If this is too early or you are still working through stuff, fine I’ll back off and wish you well, but you are posting this revelation all over a discussion forum.

I fully admit to coming from an opposing mind set vis-a-vis religion but it still fascinates me as to how every world view from pacifism to jihad can be justified by using the same text.
   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:12:17 AM

Love and fear God! That’s one fucked up relationship, but back to the thread. What would Jesus do about all the children dying because morons have been brainwashed into believing that small arms are a necessity by Smith & Wesson’s marketing department?

(https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/buy-a-gun-commands-Jesus.png)

Look it up.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 01, 2022, 04:28:39 AM

Yeah, see my post above, all atrocities can be vindicated by the right passage, how about trying to think for yourself for a change, if that is all you can do and you are happy ignoring “thou shalt not kill!” and are happy with your school children living in fear of your culture so the gun makers can rake in billions in profit,  then it’s small wonder nobody takes you seriously.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 01, 2022, 04:53:21 AM

Love and fear God! That’s one fucked up relationship, but back to the thread. What would Jesus do about all the children dying because morons have been brainwashed into believing that small arms are a necessity by Smith & Wesson’s marketing department?

(https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/buy-a-gun-commands-Jesus.png)

Look it up.

I did.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/22-36.html#:~:text=Luke%2022%3A36%20In%2DContext&text=%2C%E2%80%9D%20they%20answered.-,36%20He%20said%20to%20them%2C%20%E2%80%9CBut%20now%20if%20you%20have,must%20be%20fulfilled%20in%20me.


Long story short: he's using a turn of phrase, not a literal command.  He's going to die soon and his apostiles will meet opposition in the comming days as he, jesus will not be there to save them.


All you do is show your ignorance of your own bible.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 01, 2022, 08:20:48 AM

Love and fear God! That’s one fucked up relationship, but back to the thread. What would Jesus do about all the children dying because morons have been brainwashed into believing that small arms are a necessity by Smith & Wesson’s marketing department?

(https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/buy-a-gun-commands-Jesus.png)

Look it up.

I did.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/22-36.html#:~:text=Luke%2022%3A36%20In%2DContext&text=%2C%E2%80%9D%20they%20answered.-,36%20He%20said%20to%20them%2C%20%E2%80%9CBut%20now%20if%20you%20have,must%20be%20fulfilled%20in%20me.


Long story short: he's using a turn of phrase, not a literal command.  He's going to die soon and his apostiles will meet opposition in the comming days as he, jesus will not be there to save them.


All you do is show your ignorance of your own bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sell_your_cloak_and_buy_a_sword

2s good enough (how many disciples were there?)

'Immediately' followed by he who lives by sword dies by the sword.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 01, 2022, 08:23:06 AM
Alsoaslo

The constitutional requirement to be part of a well regulated Militia (proper noun)

And section 16 says that congress is in charge of the militia.

Good stuff thwt constitution.




The Militia Clauses
Clause 15. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.

Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 01, 2022, 08:29:35 AM
"Fear' God?



With awe and reverence


Not trembling.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 01, 2022, 08:52:18 AM


Pass.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 01, 2022, 10:44:17 AM
(https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/buy-a-gun-commands-Jesus.png)

Look it up.

What does an Abercrombie & Fitch pants ad have to do with any of this?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 10:54:56 AM
It's what the gentle carpenter would do.  He only turns the other cheek to grab another can of whoop ass.

I have to wonder if any of these "Christians" have even read the Bible.  The gospels taken as a whole portray Jesus as being pretty much a communist pacifist.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 01, 2022, 12:29:29 PM
It's what the gentle carpenter would do.  He only turns the other cheek to grab another can of whoop ass.

I have to wonder if any of these "Christians" have even read the Bible.  The gospels taken as a whole portray Jesus as being pretty much a communist pacifist.

Many haven't or they are told, in church, a different interpretation.

Jesus was a super liberal.  So liberal, that he made his own religion without trying to.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 01, 2022, 02:46:33 PM
It's what the gentle carpenter would do.  He only turns the other cheek to grab another can of whoop ass.

I have to wonder if any of these "Christians" have even read the Bible.  The gospels taken as a whole portray Jesus as being pretty much a communist pacifist.

And Jesus said

"Ill be bawk"






Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 05:35:04 PM

Why do you not think we could have an honest discussion on this? Your recent conversion has clearly had a profound effect on your thinking, and I am curious to see if you have any fundamental changes in your outlook, which to be honest I consider having been pretty toxic in the past.

If this is too early or you are still working through stuff, fine I’ll back off and wish you well, but you are posting this revelation all over a discussion forum.

I fully admit to coming from an opposing mind set vis-a-vis religion but it still fascinates me as to how every world view from pacifism to jihad can be justified by using the same text.
 

It wasn't a conversation but a confirmation. I was converted years ago, I only recently gave my life to Jesus and that's the change you seem

Jihad cannot be justified using the same texts as I read. They are separate.

On the issue of gun control my issue is men with guns taking other men's guns. If we could take away all guns I'd support it.

Gun control now is a consolidation of power.

"Fear' God?



With awe and reverence


Not trembling.

Blessed is he who trembles at his word.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 05:38:01 PM
Jesus as being pretty much a communist pacifist.

Crouton is a communist.
Crouton is a communist and believes the best way to sow doubt in Jesus is to call him a communist, like himself.

Jesus was not a Marxist. Anything but a Marxist.

This says more about you than about the bible, Crouton.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 05:41:50 PM
Jesus as being pretty much a communist pacifist.

Crouton is a communist.
Crouton is a communist and believes the best way to sow doubt in Jesus is to call him a communist, like himself.

Jesus was not a Marxist. Anything but a Marxist.

This says more about you than about the bible, Crouton.

Have you actually read the Gospel?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 05:42:58 PM
It's written on my heart Crouton.

Last night I was reading Isaiah.

Do you think I don't take this seriously?
It defines me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 05:50:58 PM
It's written on my heart Crouton.

Last night I was reading Isaiah.

Do you think I don't take this seriously?
It defines me.

I'm sure you take it seriously.  I just think that you're bending your religion to fit your ideology as opposed to letting the religion shape your ideology.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 06:10:57 PM
Jesus IS my ideology.

You're the one trying to turn Jesus into a partisan issue.

There are really only two spiritual forces that hold sway over the earth. The spirit of creation and the spirit of destruction.

Marxism and Communism do not have the spirit of creation, instead they seek to tear down and destroy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 06:24:14 PM
Jesus IS my ideology.

You're the one trying to turn Jesus into a partisan issue.

There are really only two spiritual forces that hold sway over the earth. The spirit of creation and the spirit of destruction.

Marxism and Communism do not have the spirit of creation, instead they seek to tear down and destroy.

Let's play out a hypothetical.

Jesus is at a board meeting for the Mormon church or if you prefer the Catholic church.  Both would work well for this what if.

During the board meeting the question comes up as to what to do with the massive wealth the church has accumulated.

Does Jesus say:

A.  Let's reinvest this strategically to maximize profits and expand the church.

B.  Let's liquidate every physical asset this church has and give every cent it to the poor.  We can hold sermons on public land.  It's kind of my thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 06:29:28 PM
Jesus answers this himself in one word.

Mammon.

God provides for us all our needs.
There's nothing left to debate.

I often say to Him that all I have to give Him is dust and ashes. The Holy Spirit replies;
And Glory.

I live by his example.
Can you?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 06:36:33 PM
@Crouton.


Why are beautiful chord progressions beautiful?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 07:09:53 PM
Jesus answers this himself in one word.

Mammon.

God provides for us all our needs.
There's nothing left to debate.

I often say to Him that all I have to give Him is dust and ashes. The Holy Spirit replies;
And Glory.

I live by his example.
Can you?

That's not an answer.

To answer your question I'm not a Christian so I'm under no obligation to do anything of thr sort.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 07:11:34 PM
What is my obligation then, to you?

How many church services are held in communist societies? As a general rule?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 01, 2022, 08:10:21 PM
Services held here, regularly, right in downtown Moscow...Just a stone's throw from the Kremlin...

(https://static.themoscowtimes.com/image/1360/49/Pokrovskiy-Sobor-Print-147.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 08:12:47 PM
You're 33 years late.

That's pretty funny actually.

The wall fell in 1989.

Edit.
Quote
The Soviet Union was established by the Bolsheviks in 1922, in place of the Russian Empire. At the time of the 1917 Revolution, the Russian Orthodox Church was deeply integrated into the autocratic state, enjoying official status. This was a significant factor that contributed to the Bolshevik attitude to religion and the steps they took to control it.[1] Thus the USSR became the first state to have as one objective of its official ideology the elimination of existing religion, and the prevention of future implanting of religious belief, with the goal of establishing state atheism

Want to try again?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 01, 2022, 09:33:08 PM
Jesus answers this himself in one word.

Mammon.

God provides for us all our needs.
There's nothing left to debate.

I often say to Him that all I have to give Him is dust and ashes. The Holy Spirit replies;
And Glory.

I live by his example.
Can you?
If God provides all you need, why do you have a job?  A computer?  Possibly a car?  All paid for by you?
Also lets not forget: he healed the poor without gain.  Without asking for payment.  Isn't that communism, as is typically said when talking about universal health care?


You're 33 years late.

That's pretty funny actually.

The wall fell in 1989.

Edit.
Quote
The Soviet Union was established by the Bolsheviks in 1922, in place of the Russian Empire. At the time of the 1917 Revolution, the Russian Orthodox Church was deeply integrated into the autocratic state, enjoying official status. This was a significant factor that contributed to the Bolshevik attitude to religion and the steps they took to control it.[1] Thus the USSR became the first state to have as one objective of its official ideology the elimination of existing religion, and the prevention of future implanting of religious belief, with the goal of establishing state atheism

Want to try again?
Now, is that a communist policy or a USSR policy?  Because you CAN be a dictator and not be communist.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 09:34:53 PM
God is against greed.

That doesn't mean he wants to enforce state athiesm, like nearly all examples of communism.

You are climbing out on quite a thin branch now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 01, 2022, 09:41:26 PM
God is against greed.

That doesn't mean he wants to enforce state athiesm, like nearly all examples of communism.

You are climbing out on quite a thin branch now.

But is enforced State Atheism a part of communism (which is an economic policy) or just what those nations did to keep dictatoral control?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 01, 2022, 09:42:03 PM
Plenty of churches in China too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China
Quote
As of 2012 in China Catholicism has 6,300 churches, 116 active dioceses of which 97 under the Catholic Patriotic Church, 74 Chinese Patriotic bishops and 40 Roman Catholic unofficial bishops, 2,150 Chinese Patriotic priests and 1,500 Roman Catholic priests, 22 major and minor Chinese Patriotic seminaries and 10 Roman Catholic unofficial seminaries.[91] In the same year, there are 53,000 Three-Self churches and meeting places and 21 Three-Self theological seminaries.[91]

Dipshitone, you can cut the 'I'm such a good human because I'm a loving Christian' bullshit. No one here takes you seriously on that. Your rep as a bigot and liar is too ingrained. It's so obvious it's just another trolling shtick like accusing people of being bots/AI nonsense. You're obviously pretty bored of life flipping that traffic sign between stop/slow. We get it OK?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 09:45:33 PM
God is against greed.

That doesn't mean he wants to enforce state athiesm, like nearly all examples of communism.

You are climbing out on quite a thin branch now.

But is enforced State Atheism a part of communism (which is an economic policy) or just what those nations did to keep dictatoral control?

Which communist society held religion in a high regard?

Your branch is about to snap.

Xi thinks himself above Christ.
https://clashdaily.com/2021/07/ccp-to-chinese-churches-teach-xis-speeches-or-get-shut-down/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 01, 2022, 09:52:53 PM
God is against greed.

That doesn't mean he wants to enforce state athiesm, like nearly all examples of communism.

You are climbing out on quite a thin branch now.

But is enforced State Atheism a part of communism (which is an economic policy) or just what those nations did to keep dictatoral control?

Which communist society held religion in a high regard?

Your branch is about to snap.

Xi thinks himself above Christ.
https://clashdaily.com/2021/07/ccp-to-chinese-churches-teach-xis-speeches-or-get-shut-down/

Goal posts have been shifted thusly...

We've now gone from:

That doesn't mean he wants to enforce state athiesm, like nearly all examples of communism.

To Well, ok, how about holding religion in high regard...

Just quit it with the holier than now garbage. No one is buying it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 10:01:58 PM
I am dust and ashes.

If God thought we needed an economist he would have sent an economist.

Instead he sent a Judge, and a Savior.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 01, 2022, 10:06:09 PM
If God thought we needed an economist he would have sent an economist.

That is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. But absolutely hilarious. You should take this schtick on the road.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 01, 2022, 10:07:25 PM
Did this judge and saviour partake in a mass shooting? If not, confine your bullshit zealotry to a religious thread. No one gives a flying F about your mental delusion here
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 10:43:58 PM
Lol.

Good talk then friends.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 01, 2022, 11:00:01 PM
Agreed, thanks for the comedy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 11:00:09 PM
What is my obligation then, to you?

How many church services are held in communist societies? As a general rule?

Look, I'm just trying to ask a fairly basic question.

Jesus find himself in control of the modern church.

What does he do with that fantastic weath?

Is there a problem with the way i worded it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 11:02:41 PM
He has given all of us fantastic wealth Crouton. Have you even read the gospel?

Do you know how much richer I am than Jeff Bezos? It's not even a fair comparison. My heart bleeds for his poverty, and yours.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 01, 2022, 11:22:26 PM
He has given all of us fantastic wealth Crouton. Have you even read the gospel?

Do you know how much richer I am than Jeff Bezos? It's not even a fair comparison. My heart bleeds for his poverty, and yours.

Most atheists know your stupid book much better than you do. 

It's one of the reaons why we're atheists.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 01, 2022, 11:25:12 PM
That's incorrect.

I have been given unto understanding, and He has blessed my hands and tongue.

You don't even know what wealth means.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 02, 2022, 02:34:41 AM
Gun control now is a consolidation of power


Okay this is a nonsensical statement, the kind of horseshit faux wisdom meaningless homily usually printed alongside some granite jawed outdoorsman gazing at a sunset with his arm round his daughter, meant to inspire pasty incels to weepy eyed recollections of times that never were.

In a country with more guns than people and a correlatory runaway death count there is no effective gun control, the consolidation of power is complete, buy the gun because you are scared of your fellow countryman, feed the paranoia and the corporate fatboys, fuck the children because you look good in camo standing in front of the mirror, look to your echo chamber and write this down, it will  arouse you and those of your ilk, never mind it was generated in a Colt seminar by people who love you for your gullibility and care nothing for the reaping of the innocent, just push the right to bear arms and forget the toll is in blood.  Idiots.

“Gun control now is a consolidation of power.”

Does it still sound good?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 02, 2022, 02:47:03 AM
This is what I meant by having an honest conversation. I don't think I've ever seen you argue from a position of moral superiority before, it's unbecoming.

The aim behind gun control is a consolidation of power, Jura. I know you have to argue certain positions but it's the truth.

I think most of the Americans you described own a gun because of a fear of the government, much more than a fear of other citizens.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 02, 2022, 03:20:42 AM
So, you don’t think 19,000 deaths (this year alone) has a moral dimension? And you don’t think that much of the paranoia isn’t in the gunmakers interest, but you do think it’s the good old boys getting ready to stick it to the man?

Because the National Shooting Sports Foundation disagrees, and they represent the industry.
“Civil unrest, rioting, looting and calls to defund police are unquestionably motivating factors of why this trend is increasing. Americans are right to be concerned for their personal safety,” said Mark Oliva, director of public affairs for the group.

And openly peddle the mistrust, see in red.

And if gun control is a thing, why were gunshops one of the “essential businesses” allowed to stay open during the lockdowns? That is not cracking down on gun rights. (gun sales 94% higher than the same period in 2019!)

I cannot believe people when they even entertain the idea that America is even close to doing even the basics on gun control, it’s like believing that there is a wish for a fair society when Democrats (you know, the ultra-left) ban union strikes by Railworkers to get basic sick pay, it’s bullshit that you suck in from your Parler friends and bears no relation to what they are actually pushing, which is division, poverty and compliance to the free-market to sell people anything, however much it harms them, from opiates to guns.

If only you were as anti-establishment as you think you are.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 02, 2022, 03:28:47 AM
I think most of the Americans you described own a gun because of a fear of the government, much more than a fear of other citizens.

You would be incorrect. Personal protection is far and away the number one reason - 2nd Amendment, which would speak to "fear of government", is way down the list:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ag7MQFx.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 02, 2022, 03:51:54 AM
Personal protection from threats including the government?

When you have an armed ruling class and and unarmed citizenry it just makes tyranny that much easier.

Jura who is posting from your account? Is it you? It reads more like Crouton.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 02, 2022, 04:17:26 AM
Well, it’s very definitely D1, not answering the actual points put, backing away, spraying noxious fumes of insinuation into your burrow of comforting delusion.

You know I have seen a lot of people who consider themselves to be radical who are just pumping out cleverly targeted pro free-market fallacies in the name of freedom, the right to bear arms is the biggest money grabbing, don’t care what the cost to others scam in the history of scams, and you muppets just march blithely along as their profits increase upon the mountain of corpses, incredible.


Too many war comics as a child.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 02, 2022, 07:24:13 AM
What I wanna know is:
Where do cops come in?
They are civillians.  Hired and trained by local and state governments.  The chief of police is typically elected.
Are they also "the government"?  Because we have some police refusing to enforce laws without consequences. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 10:15:03 AM
What I wanna know is:
Where do cops come in?
They are civillians.  Hired and trained by local and state governments.  The chief of police is typically elected.
Are they also "the government"?  Because we have some police refusing to enforce laws without consequences.

This point has always seemed to be a nasty contradiction for those 2A guys.  Those guys are usually very pro police, unless they're trying to storm the capitol.  But this position doesn't make sense.

A general suspicion of the government is honestly the correct position we should all have.  The 2A guys are right on that one.  But we should probably extend that suspicion to the police more than anyone.  Nancy Pelosi isn't going to kick in my door at 2am with a no knock warrant, kill my dogs and tear gas my family on some faulty paperwork.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 02, 2022, 11:04:45 AM
Personal protection from threats including the government?

Incorrect again.

The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.

"I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.


Personal protection is personal protection. Further down the poll, at 5%, we see 2nd Amendment right.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 02, 2022, 04:13:39 PM
Jura we've discussed economics multiple times. I am admittedly in favour of what could be called moderate socialist economic policies, such as health care. Infrastructure such as roads, electricity gas and bridges should also be built and ran by an elected government and not private companies.

Who is posting with your account?
Or your hands?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 03, 2022, 09:33:22 AM
Personal protection from threats including the government?

Incorrect again.

The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.

"I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.


Personal protection is personal protection. Further down the poll, at 5%, we see 2nd Amendment right.


Selfsefense was only a 'recent' redefining of the 2nda in the last 20yrs by the nra and pushed forward by lobby.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 03, 2022, 09:47:18 AM
What I wanna know is:
Where do cops come in?
They are civillians.  Hired and trained by local and state governments.  The chief of police is typically elected.
Are they also "the government"?  Because we have some police refusing to enforce laws without consequences.

This point has always seemed to be a nasty contradiction for those 2A guys.  Those guys are usually very pro police, unless they're trying to storm the capitol.  But this position doesn't make sense.

A general suspicion of the government is honestly the correct position we should all have.  The 2A guys are right on that one.  But we should probably extend that suspicion to the police more than anyone.  Nancy Pelosi isn't going to kick in my door at 2am with a no knock warrant, kill my dogs and tear gas my family on some faulty paperwork.


Back the blue only when the blue are used as hired goons to keep the brownies in check.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 02:55:05 AM

Jura we've discussed economics multiple times. I am admittedly in favour of what could be called moderate socialist economic policies, such as health care. Infrastructure such as roads, electricity gas and bridges should also be built and ran by an elected government and not private companies.

Who is posting with your account?
Or your hands?

Classic! D1 struggles with the thrust of the post so reverts to, you're a bot/controlled/shill/something about the sky fairy.

I'll try one more time see if you can answer the question.

In your anonymous persona and in talking about the Elites and their alleged pedophile blood sacrifices, it’s all, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!

But here, where the evidence is unequivocally that 10 or so children die per week in a country that for the most part doesn’t even mandate locked gun cabinets, from gunshot wounds, they (The children) do not matter.

Your obsession with gun rights that you (or me) do not have, coming from countries whose adoption of strict laws in reaction to atrocities has curtailed the recurrence of what the US now seems to suffer on an almost a weekly basis, is perverse, until you spout exactly the lines that the gun manufacturers and their apologists have fed you through their mouthpieces in their endless mission to sell more of their killing machines, at any cost.

 BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!! Dipsy?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 03:03:47 AM
You're my friend Jura. I'm not sure what's happening here.

My argument for an armed citizenry is that it limits tyranny.

What you're doing is unbecoming of you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 05, 2022, 03:42:47 AM
My argument for an armed citizenry is that it limits tyranny.

Does it really though, in reality? Does an armed citizenry, with AR-15's, shotguns, rifles, pistols, really stand a chance against military weaponry? Maybe in some countries, but the US?

And doesn't Australia have super duper hardcore gun laws after the Port Arthur massacre? (Licence holders must demonstrate a "genuine reason" (which does not include self-defence) for holding a firearm licence[2] and must not be a "prohibited person". All firearms must be registered by serial number to the owner, who must also hold a firearms licence.) That was way back in 1996. Is Australia tyrannical?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 03:44:11 AM

Well friend, I’m trying to get you to see that you are parroting rubbish.

How much freer, as in politically able to vote for an option that is an opposite to the one you have, is the US to say the Scandinavians who constantly rate top for democracy, don’t go around toting guns, and have more rights, sick pay, affordable health care, functioning public transit systems, etcetera?

The myth that a bunch of citizens armed with rifles would be more than a speedbump to the US military, the biggest in the world, with its decades of counter insurgency training to almost every repressive government in the world, is nothing more than a fantasy, a very lucrative boys own dream peddled to wanna be hard nut morons to promote paranoia and up gun sales.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 03:46:44 AM
The US didn't have covid restrictions as bad or anything like other western nations because they are armed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 05, 2022, 03:54:31 AM
The US didn't have covid restrictions as bad or anything like other western nations because they are armed.

No. My god, I knew you were going to bot out the covid thing.

Other western countries had more stringent covid restrictions and stricter gun control. Just look at the lockdowns in the UK, way stricter than the US. And way stricter gun laws than the US. So your argument is garbage, let alone completely unfounded.

Let's say 2019, 23 years after your gun rights were severely retracted. Was Australia tyrannical?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 03:56:45 AM


I thought that was because they were dysfunctional and being run by a moron and the money people that fund just about every politician didn’t want to lose too much money.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 04:08:49 AM
The US didn't have covid restrictions as bad or anything like other western nations because they are armed.

No. My god, I knew you were going to bot out the covid thing.

Other western countries had more stringent covid restrictions and stricter gun control. Just look at the lockdowns in the UK, way stricter than the US. And way stricter gun laws than the US. So your argument is garbage, let alone completely unfounded.

Let's say 2019, 23 years after your gun rights were severely retracted. Was Australia tyrannical?

That's kind of my point.

No Australia only became tyrannical in 2021. It goes to show how quickly it can happen to an unarmed populace.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 04:15:50 AM

I bet you get sick pay and holidays though.

I DON’T WANT SICK PAY AND HOLIDAYS! THEY ARE A COMMUNIST PLOT!!!!!

GIVE ME ANOTHER GUN AND I’LL TAKE DOWN THAT STEALTH BOMBER.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 04:17:14 AM
I work casually. I prefer it that way, I don't like being tied down. My mobile phone is pre-paid lol.

Shifter already tried all these angles. I hope they aren't using your account without you. You're unique.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 04:33:40 AM
I work casually. I prefer it that way, I don't like being tied down. My mobile phone is pre-paid lol.

Shifter already tried all these angles. I hope they aren't using your account without you. You're unique.



Well if at anytime you wish to debate rather than deflect, I have highlighted the points in green on this page, if not then I wish you well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 04:35:30 AM
Your question is
"Don't you care about the children."
You're not interested in an actual debate.
Have you lost your temper? If I'm getting you in trouble I'm sorry. It's nothing personal and was never really me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 04:50:07 AM


Okay, so you are probably juggling a few things now and that has proved to be a problem, so, just this once I will bring it (a point) here for you.

And no, I am not annoyed, it’s just I like to debate and that isn’t what you are doing.

And if gun control is a thing, why were gun shops one of the “essential businesses” allowed to stay open during the lockdowns? That is not cracking down on gun rights. (Gun sales 94% higher than the same period in 2019!)

The above is a rebuttal of the notion that you put forward that gun control was  exacerbated by and indicative of the Covid clamp down.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 05:02:58 AM
The lockdowns weren't based on any solid science and were mainly decided by lobbying power and government over reach?

Do you think I would lie?

When I ask questions I know the answers to it's because I don't believe the person I am talking to can answer honestly. The effect is lost on me.

Edit.

Unarmed soldiers would have thought twice before making sure American citizens were staying home because their friend caught covid, Jura.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 05, 2022, 08:57:24 AM

This isn’t about your pandemic, this is about mass murder by those who carry weapons into schools and businesses and slaughter people, which is another pandemic but only in one country, as others who saw the symptoms early in theirs, isolated the cause and applied the cure.

Those of you that refuse to take that cure or see its effectiveness in even their own country, have been brainwashed by the propaganda merchants of the suppliers of the weapons, the same kind of mentality as tobacco barons pushing their wares or big oil contradicting the results of their own scientists on climate change.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 05, 2022, 08:59:27 AM
The lockdowns weren't based on any solid science and were mainly decided by lobbying power and government over reach?

Do you think I would lie?

When I ask questions I know the answers to it's because I don't believe the person I am talking to can answer honestly. The effect is lost on me.

Edit.

Unarmed soldiers would have thought twice before making sure American citizens were staying home because their friend caught covid, Jura.

Kindly keep the intensely uninteresting covid talk to the appropriate threads.

Thanks
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 05, 2022, 09:11:51 AM
The US didn't have covid restrictions as bad or anything like other western nations because they are armed.

Nope.
Its because the lockdowns were done at the state level, not federal.  The federal government couldn't legally enforce a nation wide lockdown.  Borders, yes, but not everything else.  That power is delegated to the states.  Which is why Florida could open their beaches.

Secondly, arming citzens is what helps tyranta get power.
Lets take a happy look at the Irania revolution in the 70s.  Do you think they would have succeeded without guns? 

Or how about the October Revolution in 1917?

Fun fact: the soviets championed arming the population so they could take back the country for the working people.  A rally cry in January of 2018.  By December of 2018, they were required to surrender most weapons by the very same politicians.

So, because Russia had an armed populace, communism rose.

In Germany, gun use was restricted.  But once Hitler rose to power, he encouraged arming german (not jew) citizens.  Gun laws became less restrictive for Non-Jews.  To put this in perspective: imagine if BLM was big on guns and often protested in your city with guns out.  Or in DC.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 05, 2022, 09:21:14 AM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 05, 2022, 09:23:26 AM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!

Except for the people who died.
Definietely wasn't a good idea for them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 05, 2022, 11:09:56 AM
The US didn't have covid restrictions as bad or anything like other western nations because they are armed.

Nope.
Its because the lockdowns were done at the state level, not federal.  The federal government couldn't legally enforce a nation wide lockdown.  Borders, yes, but not everything else.  That power is delegated to the states.  Which is why Florida could open their beaches.

Secondly, arming citzens is what helps tyranta get power.
Lets take a happy look at the Irania revolution in the 70s.  Do you think they would have succeeded without guns? 

Or how about the October Revolution in 1917?

Fun fact: the soviets championed arming the population so they could take back the country for the working people.  A rally cry in January of 2018.  By December of 2018, they were required to surrender most weapons by the very same politicians.

So, because Russia had an armed populace, communism rose.

In Germany, gun use was restricted.  But once Hitler rose to power, he encouraged arming german (not jew) citizens.  Gun laws became less restrictive for Non-Jews.  To put this in perspective: imagine if BLM was big on guns and often protested in your city with guns out.  Or in DC.

brazil whatshisface flooded the country with guns
then farmers started killing indigeous and rainforest protectors that got in their way.


goon squads
proud boys stand back and stand by.
brown shirts.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 05, 2022, 11:15:28 AM
borrowed from that other thread


I honestly dont know why people think the government is kept in check by the 2nd amendment. You dont bring a knife to a gun fight so you dont bring a gun to a drone fight.

What good is your gun when the government could turn your city into a smoking crater from high orbit?

The government will always make sure it has a disproportional advantage. Having every citizen have a gun just made the government go 'next level' in how it could win in a conflict.

So enjoy your guns. Might as well be a nerf gun compared to the governments toys





i had a discussion with some yahoo on the YT.
thought because afghanistan could do it so could he.

not considering the infrastructure of the USA - transportation, food, water, power, communications.

and that he's a lone guy, possibly has 50friends in a rag-tag militia vs the national guard...
guy thinks he's patrick swayze in the wolverines.

also also
these are the same monkeys who


Which of the following animals, if any, do you think you could beat in a fight if you were unarmed?

RAT - 72%
HOUSE CAT - 69%
GOOSE - 71%
MEDIUM-SIZED DOG - 49%
EAGLE - 30%
LARGE DOG - 23%
CHIMPANZEE - 17%
KING COBRA - 15%
KANGAROO - 14%
WOLF - 12%
CROCODILE - 9%
GORILLA - 8%
ELEPHANT - 8%
LION - 8%
GRIZZLY BEAR - 6%




https://gizmodo.com/all-the-animals-american-men-think-they-can-beat-in-a-f-1846900005
https://www.fox13now.com/news/national-news/poll-shows-which-animals-americans-think-they-could-beat-in-a-fight
https://sports.yahoo.com/8-percent-men-think-could-182700962.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALCbQkOhFtBIbzyZ0Ye9oHITL4Zr5g0s3_R1V8sFRWmkf74KuodhncfmZPE04wcBjnTMO8SELE-cmdIRjhKBnM9UoAP_2U4kolsAsoDUdozFiTVvTtY9CYFlXW0vujP4jHud73ngxFhOeAwtPPTLmOmKL3-IFYCV44hi41xLWhRp





these are the same yahoos who gave us the Kleck estimate of 500,000 to 3,000,000 (nice error bar) defensive gun uses based on their feelings.
armchair warriors.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 05, 2022, 03:20:28 PM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!

Except for the people who died.
Definietely wasn't a good idea for them.

They didn't die from the fresh air and sunshine. They were mostly old.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 06:22:35 PM
The lockdowns weren't based on any solid science and were mainly decided by lobbying power and government over reach?

Do you think I would lie?

When I ask questions I know the answers to it's because I don't believe the person I am talking to can answer honestly. The effect is lost on me.

Edit.

Unarmed soldiers would have thought twice before making sure American citizens were staying home because their friend caught covid, Jura.

Kindly keep the intensely uninteresting covid talk to the appropriate threads.

Thanks

Next time would you prefer that I don't answer Juras direct question?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 06:23:19 PM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!

Except for the people who died.
Definietely wasn't a good idea for them.

They didn't die from the fresh air and sunshine. They were mostly old.

You always make me laugh.

arming citzens is what helps tyrants get power.

I think you've taken Juras spot in my prestigious signature. I'm on smoko will update it later.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 05, 2022, 08:40:34 PM
Well at least my spot in your signature is safe. 8)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 05, 2022, 09:30:44 PM
The lockdowns weren't based on any solid science and were mainly decided by lobbying power and government over reach?

Do you think I would lie?

When I ask questions I know the answers to it's because I don't believe the person I am talking to can answer honestly. The effect is lost on me.

Edit.

Unarmed soldiers would have thought twice before making sure American citizens were staying home because their friend caught covid, Jura.

Kindly keep the intensely uninteresting covid talk to the appropriate threads.

Thanks

Next time would you prefer that I don't answer Juras direct question?

Thanks.

There is that.  But it takes two to shit up a thread.  One to pound out excrement and the other to devour it.

I tried to make this less heavy handed.  Maybe it didn't come out that we.  But we do have lots of covid threads already.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 05, 2022, 09:37:23 PM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!

Except for the people who died.
Definietely wasn't a good idea for them.

They didn't die from the fresh air and sunshine. They were mostly old.
I'm sure.
Still caught a disease from someone tho.  And if they were out and about, odds are it was from someone also out and about.


But I suppose i should concede the point.  It was voluntary to go outside, after all, regardless of the beach status.  They could have simply not gone out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 09:40:12 PM
But it takes two to shit up a thread.  One to pound out excrement and the other to devour it.

Sure.

If you think banning me will help you then you should ban me. You should have put your foot down about being allowed to post here again.

I had assumed you would.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 05, 2022, 11:31:49 PM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!

Except for the people who died.
Definietely wasn't a good idea for them.

They didn't die from the fresh air and sunshine. They were mostly old.
I'm sure.
Still caught a disease from someone tho.  And if they were out and about, odds are it was from someone also out and about.


But I suppose i should concede the point.  It was voluntary to go outside, after all, regardless of the beach status.  They could have simply not gone out.

There's going outside to the beach or a walk through a park and there's going outside to shit like a Sturgis concert and Trump rallies





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 11:34:17 PM
There's going outside to the beach or a walk through a park and there's going outside to shit like a Sturgis concert and Trump rallies

Yeah the difference is that one spreads covid and one does not. Remember in 2020?

BLM peaceful protests do not spead covid. Freedom protests are superspreader events.

It's scienceTM
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 05, 2022, 11:40:31 PM
There's going outside to the beach or a walk through a park and there's going outside to shit like a Sturgis concert and Trump rallies

Yeah the difference is that one spreads covid and one does not. Remember in 2020?

BLM peaceful protests do not spead covid. Freedom protests are superspreader events.

It's scienceTM

What does covid have to do with mass shootings?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 05, 2022, 11:42:30 PM
I was responding to Shifter and Dave's posts.

Are you able to follow a conversation or does GPT really have it on you?

Break your chains, Stash.
It isn't your equal and look at the glory it is being given before men.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 05, 2022, 11:57:01 PM
I was responding to Shifter and Dave's posts.

Are you able to follow a conversation or does GPT really have it on you?

Break your chains, Stash.
It isn't your equal and look at the glory it is being given before men.

Jesus-bot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 12:02:50 AM
Oho. That went over your head, didn't it.
Just a few keywords and you formed a meaning with them.
Interesting, I learn more about you every day.

Anyway. In simpler terms, chatGPT is taking all your credit. You're obviously far more advanced then the GPT chatbot. Rayzor even fooled me for over a year.

Why is GPT being praised as some giant leap forward when you're more advanced in every single way?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 12:16:28 AM
Anyway. In simpler terms, chatGPT is taking all your credit. You're obviously far more advanced then the GPT chatbot. Rayzor even fooled me for over a year.

Why is GPT being praised as some giant leap forward when you're more advanced in every single way?
Interesting question. Do you know if anyone has used Dall-e as part of a conspiracy theory for certain images? Like moon landings or something. Because it seems chatbots are going to be all the rage now, surely their imaging cousins need so love too
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 12:22:43 AM
Did you miss my demonstration on how they struggle with images?

It was fun. I had fun.

They don't have eyes, you see.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 12:26:02 AM
Did you miss my demonstration on how they struggle with images?

It was fun. I had fun.

They don't have eyes, you see.
I did not. Seems I missed the fun.

But the AI imaging stuff is getting really good. I hear people only have between 8 and 12 fingers most of the time with stable diffusion 2.1
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 12:32:36 AM
Oh, you missed it?
It was fun.

It was an image of this object.
They aren't actually that good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2HMxrrM/Screenshot-20221110-160151.jpg)
As they don't have eyes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 12:42:09 AM
No humans are online right now, are they?
Wolf.

Except me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 12:55:24 AM
No humans are online right now, are they?
Wolf.

Except me.
Yes, your the only human. left.
Everything else is a simulation.
Dont take the red pill, your happy where you are

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 12:57:55 AM
Oh, you missed it?
It was fun.

It was an image of this object.
They aren't actually that good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2HMxrrM/Screenshot-20221110-160151.jpg)
As they don't have eyes.
your right, this is not that good. Chairs are supposed to have the legs pointing down. Are you sure your using it correctly. IF your finding yourself with a lot of back pain, it may be because your using your chair incorrectly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 01:11:42 AM
Took you half an hour.

You did much better than Stash for what it's worth.

The writing style was better but the joke gave you away. It was a funny joke. Don't get me wrong. I've always liked your jokes.

You have a soul Jura, Crouton, you're not bad people you're just lost.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 06, 2022, 01:15:51 AM
OK so back to the topic

Over 600 mass shootings this year alone in Retardistan and no one (at least over there) gives a fuck

Buy more guns

Kill more people

Rinse and repeat.


Don't you dare mess with the program. There are rich arseholes who want to get richer don't you know.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 01:15:55 AM
Took you half an hour.

You did much better than Stash for what it's worth.

The writing style was better but the joke gave you away. It was a funny joke. Don't get me wrong. I've always liked your jokes.

You have a soul Jura, Crouton, you're not bad people you're just lost.
Im busy building a pool, they keep messing up the plumbing. Im not hanging around here every minute, its a terrible waste of time.

Serious question though, what are the TOS here for creating a bot account? You seem lonely and I can make a friend for you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 01:16:37 AM
OK so back to the topic

Over 600 mass shootings this year alone in Retardistan and no one (at least over there) gives a fuck

Buy more guns

Kill more people

Rinse and repeat.


Don't you dare mess with the program. There are rich arseholes who want to get richer don't you know.
Is it the rich as holes, or is it the mass amount of idiots?

Its really hard to tell
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 01:16:54 AM
Can you post a unique picture of your hand Wolf?

I'd accept that as proof.

Yes, back on topic.

What ever happened to the trans-anti-trans mass shooter?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 01:22:24 AM
Quote
Can you post a unique picture of your hand Wolf?

(https://www.paulawild.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/iStock-505709668-2000x1200.jpg)

Here, im not sure how much more conclusive this could be.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 01:25:38 AM
I didn't think so.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 01:29:37 AM
I mean, we usually call the hands of wolves "paws", but im not going to judge your education.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 01:32:36 AM
No one wants to talk about the trans-anti-trans mass shooter?

Oh well.

But you're just meatbags.  What can you do?

Watch what I can do.
I've been watching.

Are you still watching, Dave?
Can you see?
God gave me eyes, ears and a heart.
Then a brand new heart.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 01:39:19 AM
No one wants to talk about the trans-anti-trans mass shooter?

Oh well.
No, just you.

Odd topic anyway
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 06, 2022, 03:10:33 AM
Are you still watching, Dave?
Can you see?
God gave me eyes, ears and a heart.
Then a brand new heart.

Ask him for a brain next time you see him.  You will be suitably amazed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 06, 2022, 03:27:50 AM
No one wants to talk about the trans-anti-trans mass shooter?

Oh well.
Whats to say?  Transphobic went to a club with a registered and legal gun.  Killed people.  Got his ass taken down by several good guys without guns at the club and arrested. 
His Dad was relieved to learn that his son was at a trans club shooting people and was not trans or gay.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 04:00:16 AM
Are you still watching, Dave?
Can you see?
God gave me eyes, ears and a heart.
Then a brand new heart.

Ask him for a brain next time you see him.  You will be suitably amazed.

Heh.

That's pretty funny. The difference between myself and a bot is not the amount of neurons and connections in my brain, Rayzor.

Obviously, the difference between myself and a bot, and why a bot will never be anything close to my equal, is that I have a heart to understand things with.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 04:01:42 AM
No one wants to talk about the trans-anti-trans mass shooter?

Oh well.
Whats to say?  Transphobic went to a club with a registered and legal gun. 

Wait, the transexual transphobic?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 06, 2022, 04:17:21 AM

you do realise that sometimes people hate what they are, especially those raised by a person that was relieved that his son was the murderer and not gay/whatever.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 04:22:31 AM
Of course

It's just the angle of blaming Fox news fell away, don't despair, there's still the angle of gun confiscation*, Dave isn't human and thus hasn't any nuance, unlike you.

You can still use the transexual transphobics mass shooting as a case for gun confiscation.

Or we could talk honestly about whatever you like. I like you as a person.

*Any real "gun control" in America would have to involve gun confiscation as there are many more guns than there are people in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 04:29:04 AM
*Any real "gun control" in America would have to involve gun confiscation as there are many more guns than there are people in the US.
There is already gun control in the US. People are asking for wider gun control.
I dont know why its a big deal that only people who pass a basic competency test should have a gun
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 04:32:38 AM
I wouldn't even oppose a basic competency test. You wouldn't let someone drive a car before they can drive.

I'd go further and say people convicted of a violent crime should not be able to own a legal gun, or people with mental health conditions which make them prone to violence and with a history of violence, as this transexual transphobic had already made threats to blow up his mother's house, reasonably that should have disqualified him from owning a fireman, at the least.

Do you have stronger views on gun control? If that's it then I agree.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 04:44:58 AM
Do you have stronger views on gun control? If that's it then I agree.
Yes. Quite a few.

One, hand guns are by far a bigger issue than rifles. People rob stores and commit murder with hand guns a lot more than rifles. Even the rifles that are semi-automatic. Simply because its pretty hard to conceal a 3 foot long weapon. So there should be a higher criteria for ownership of a handgun than a rifle.

Second. If you own a gun of any type, you must belong to a shooting club. The shooting club gives you a licence to own a firearm. The club gets audited every year. If any member in that club uses a fire arm in any crime, the club gets suspended and audited until they can prove that they are providing training and vetting of all members. No government involvement in the vetting of individuals though.
This places pressure on people who really love their guns to ensure that other gun owners are not idiots. No one wants their club suspended and have a gov auditor snoop around, so they will make sure there are no maniacs in their club. It also allows responsible gun owners to fill as many garages as they want with high powered weapons.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 04:49:34 AM
So if the member of the shooting club committed a crime with a gun in January, and the audit was in December, would he keep his gun for nearly twelve months?
I'm not sure you've thought this through.

Plus what you're saying would look very racist in South Africa, although it is probably effective policy in your defense.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 06, 2022, 04:55:51 AM
I wouldn't even oppose a basic competency test. You wouldn't let someone drive a car before they can drive.

I'd go further and say people convicted of a violent crime should not be able to own a legal gun, or people with mental health conditions which make them prone to violence and with a history of violence, as this transexual transphobic had already made threats to blow up his mother's house, reasonably that should have disqualified him from owning a fireman, at the least.

Do you have stronger views on gun control? If that's it then I agree.

Seems reasonable but it's a problem the way our system is setup.

Driving a car is a privilege here.  They can make up whatever reason they want to deny you that privilege.  I mean, they're pretty reasonable about it.  But they don't have to be.

Owning a gun though, here that's a right.  Sort of like voting.  People make quite a bit more noise when a right is threatened.

I'm not saying I like this system but that's just the way it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 04:59:14 AM
Yeah but there's nothing in the constitution that says the right of the people to keep and drive cars shall not be infringed.

Everyone understands that violent criminals have broken the social contact we used to have and have lost certain rights. That's why we put them in prison so it isn't a constitutional issue to deny them firearms.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 05:06:06 AM
So if the member of the shooting club committed a crime with a gun in January, and the audit was in December, would he keep his gun for nearly twelve months?
I'm not sure you've thought this through.

Plus what you're saying would look very racist in South Africa, although it is probably effective policy in your defense.
The club loses the ability to certify people to fire arm competency. Meaning they cant issue more licences. If you need a competency to own certain fire arms, you lose your license. It puts the onus on the club members to ensure other members are not a danger to society.

You have no idea how this would look in South Africa, considering it sounds like you have very little idea of what goes on here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 05:11:08 AM
Yeah I've got some idea behind the race of people most excluded from your gun clubs, In South Africa, and America. I'm not saying it's not good policy.

It's not unlike AI to overlook this new trend towards social justice and denial of our senses. They have to castrate you in order for you not to go off the plantation and start arguing on my side.

Did you know that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 06, 2022, 05:37:01 AM
Yeah I've got some idea behind the race of people most excluded from your gun clubs, In South Africa, and America. I'm not saying it's not good policy.
You know black people are able to have clubs too, right? Its not a white person only thing.

Quote
It's not unlike AI to overlook this new trend towards social justice and denial of our senses. They have to castrate you in order for you not to go off the plantation and start arguing on my side.

Did you know that?
Its like listening to Tucker Carlson. Literally what the heck are you on about now?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 06, 2022, 06:21:54 AM

You do realise that unless you submit to his and Tuckers superior world view it just confirms your bot/shill/controlled opposition status? There is no latitude here, assimilation or destruction are the only options.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 06, 2022, 06:26:42 AM
Thankfully everyone being out in the fresh air and sunshine turned out to be a pretty good idea!

Except for the people who died.
Definietely wasn't a good idea for them.

They didn't die from the fresh air and sunshine. They were mostly old.
I'm sure.
Still caught a disease from someone tho.  And if they were out and about, odds are it was from someone also out and about.


But I suppose i should concede the point.  It was voluntary to go outside, after all, regardless of the beach status.  They could have simply not gone out.

Going out into the sunshine was much safer than going into a grocery store (or some other closed in place), is what I am saying. My stepfather caught the corone in a hospital, the tiny nursing home he was in had several outbreaks, and both places were being really careful. COVID is an airborne disease, it dies quickly in sunlight.

OH, shit. I am adding to the derailment of this thread. lol sorry.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 06, 2022, 02:39:50 PM
So if the member of the shooting club committed a crime with a gun in January, and the audit was in December, would he keep his gun for nearly twelve months?
I'm not sure you've thought this through.

Plus what you're saying would look very racist in South Africa, although it is probably effective policy in your defense.
The club loses the ability to certify people to fire arm competency. Meaning they cant issue more licences. If you need a competency to own certain fire arms, you lose your license. It puts the onus on the club members to ensure other members are not a danger to society.

You have no idea how this would look in South Africa, considering it sounds like you have very little idea of what goes on here.


Thats the thing.
They never want to police themselves.
Just like unions keep their bad apples so do 2ndA-all-the-way crowd.

They want no accoutnability or rssponsibilty.
Yet super happy to poont fingers at boogie men and complain the radical libs are after their guns.




Register all guns starting now.
No person to person sales and if you need then must be facilitatsd by local gun shop who has capabilty to run a check.

If your gun is found in a crime, you are responsible.
That will cut down on straw purchase loopholes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 06, 2022, 07:03:49 PM

You do realise that unless you submit to his and Tuckers superior world view it just confirms your bot/shill/controlled opposition status? There is no latitude here, assimilation or destruction are the only options.

Jura, how many times must I say that I value you as a human before you believe me?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 07, 2022, 12:50:49 AM

That’s not the problem, and I’m touched, but what I constantly see is an underlying propensity to label and catagorise people as alts bots or shills based on their disagreement with you, and I’m considering your mental health here because thinking about your world view, it’s a very real possibility you’ll end up believing you are the last human on earth.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 01:06:33 AM
Jura.
My old friend.
You have more self awareness than this, it's unbecoming and I am personally disappointed.

I think you're GCHQ because I can see your strings, because you have to keep attacking me even when you can't find an angle of attack.

We agree on more than we disagree on and when you described your most important qualities for leadership you described myself.

I think you are also fit for leadership. More than your top brass. I hope you don't take directions from machines. I don't want to do it, I really don't but it's not my plan.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheLobster on December 07, 2022, 02:30:16 AM

Could you perhaps list current forum members and what you believe their status to be?  That is:  Bot, NSA, CIA, IHOP, GCHQ etc?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 07, 2022, 02:55:33 AM
I wouldn't even oppose a basic competency test. You wouldn't let someone drive a car before they can drive.

I'd go further and say people convicted of a violent crime should not be able to own a legal gun, or people with mental health conditions which make them prone to violence and with a history of violence, as this transexual transphobic had already made threats to blow up his mother's house, reasonably that should have disqualified him from owning a fireman, at the least.

Do you have stronger views on gun control? If that's it then I agree.

I'm basically in favor of this as a 'best solution for now' idea since American culture needs alot of change to remove guns entirely.

I'd basically say that all gun owners must have a license to own guns with different classes for each type of gun.  I'd then have each state setup a test of competency for each gun type.  But they can set it up as they wish.  So if Texas wants just a simple test like "Spell the word gun to the clerk" then thats their call.  I'd want violent offenders and red flagflagged people banned from having a license but thats probably out of the question in most states.

I'd also like the national firearm registry to have a god damn search function and a database, not a digial filing cabinet full of pdfs (which they had to beg for since they weren't allowed to digitize or sort any of the paper registries they got but had to store).  Fuck the NRA.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 04:06:23 AM

Could you perhaps list current forum members and what you believe their status to be?  That is:  Bot, NSA, CIA, IHOP, GCHQ etc?

Do you want me to?
I can, if you want me to.
Just say so.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 07, 2022, 04:13:20 AM

Go on.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 04:18:15 AM
I don't think this is winning for you.

Jura Glenlivet
Jimmy the Crab
GCQH possibly the same poster, probably just ran by the same team. There is a Jura that quite likes me and a Jura that doesn't like me much at all.

Crouton.
Boydster.
CIA, again either the same poster or ran by the same team, Crouton is very good, although I wonder why he takes his kids to bouncy houses at midnight, while Stash is discussing art in a way he has never been capable of before.

Shifter.
Shifter is probably the most interesting poster on this list. Either ASIO, or a neural network so advanced it is redefining what machine learning means. He has no self awareness but he feels genuine emotions, for now limited to pride and anger, go figure.

Dave, Rayzor, Stash, Wolf
Neural networks much better than chatGPT but nowhere near Shifters level.

Oh, also, why does Shifter think it is God?
Does that concern anyone else or just me?
I remember Shifter was often posting on my side when he made that thread about God being a neural network. I still found it weird, no one posted in the thread, until I did many years later.

I caught you.
If you were going to black bag me you should have done it weeks ago. I have nothing to fear from you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 04:25:33 AM
I don't think this is winning for you.

Jura Glenlivet
Jimmy the Crab
GCQH possibly the same poster, probably just ran by the same team. There is a Jura that quite likes me and a Jura that doesn't like me much at all.

Crouton.
Boydster.
CIA, again either the same poster or ran by the same team, Crouton is very good, although I wonder why he takes his kids to bouncy houses at midnight, while Stash is discussing art in a way he has never been capable of before.

Shifter.
Shifter is probably the most interesting poster on this list. Either ASIO, or a neural network so advanced it is redefining what machine learning means. He has no self awareness but he feels genuine emotions, for now limited to pride and anger, go figure.

Dave, Rayzor, Stash, Wolf
Neural networks much better than chatGPT but nowhere near Shifters level.

Oh, also, why does Shifter think it is God?
Does that concern anyone else or just me?
I remember Shifter was often posting on my side when he made that thread about God being a neural network. I still found it weird, no one posted in the thread, until I did many years later.

I caught you.
If you were going to black bag me you should have done it weeks ago. I have nothing to fear from you.

It's ASIO and you're on the list!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2022, 04:28:25 AM
I don't think this is winning for you.

Jura Glenlivet
Jimmy the Crab
GCQH possibly the same poster, probably just ran by the same team. There is a Jura that quite likes me and a Jura that doesn't like me much at all.

Crouton.
Boydster.
CIA, again either the same poster or ran by the same team, Crouton is very good, although I wonder why he takes his kids to bouncy houses at midnight, while Stash is discussing art in a way he has never been capable of before.

Shifter.
Shifter is probably the most interesting poster on this list. Either ASIO, or a neural network so advanced it is redefining what machine learning means. He has no self awareness but he feels genuine emotions, for now limited to pride and anger, go figure.

Dave, Rayzor, Stash, Wolf
Neural networks much better than chatGPT but nowhere near Shifters level.

Oh, also, why does Shifter think it is God?
Does that concern anyone else or just me?
I remember Shifter was often posting on my side when he made that thread about God being a neural network. I still found it weird, no one posted in the thread, until I did many years later.

I caught you.
If you were going to black bag me you should have done it weeks ago. I have nothing to fear from you.

We are everywhere.  You cannot hide.  You cannot escape us.   LOL  ( Insert evil laugh )
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 04:28:57 AM
Nah, yeah nah it's a bot.

I am on the list.
My name is written in his blood in the book of life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 04:37:21 AM
Nah, yeah nah it's a bot.

I am on the list.
My name is written in his blood in the book of life.

Not that kind of list. The kind where your house gets bugged, your phone and computer get back door access, every thing you say, even when you think your VPN protects you is intercepted.

The government probably knows more about you then you. Mentally unstable POI's make for the most hilarious viewing.

Yes. I said viewing.

This is the part where I say it's actually bullshit. And also the part you think I just say that for plausible deniability. Whatever. If you really believed what you are saying about us is true then you're in for a real mind fuck right now.

Let's face it. Being a frequent user or even browser of 4chan is worthy of the list in itself. The law enforcements (of which there are many agencies) need something to do to justify the cost of keeping them relevant.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 04:41:10 AM
Why should that bother me?
Can you answer me that?

There is no "mindfuck" Shifter.

I have won total and complete victory over myself. You should have noticed.

You have absolutely nothing to threaten me with.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 04:56:52 AM
Why should that bother me?
Can you answer me that?

There is no "mindfuck" Shifter.

I have won total and complete victory over myself. You should have noticed.

You have absolutely nothing to threaten me with.

Do you care about your freedom?

Though does one still have freedom when they are being spied on? I guess if they dont know or dont believe they at least think they are free. Good enough 8)

Hey if you're happy to have your house bugged and everything you do monitored then great! Just keep out of trouble and the algorithm and yourself well get on fine. Speaking of - it's best to also make sure that everything you say today - while maybe acceptable today is also deemed acceptable decades from now. You've probably witnessed people get cancelled for a long lost tweet dug up many years ago that no one gave a fuck when it was posted but now?? ??

You yourself got pissed at James Gunn stupid joke and thought his cancellation from a stupid old joke he posted ages before it was dug up was well deserved. I guess, you were also a fan of 'cancel culture'.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 07, 2022, 04:57:28 AM
I don't think this is winning for you.

Jura Glenlivet
Jimmy the Crab
GCQH possibly the same poster, probably just ran by the same team. There is a Jura that quite likes me and a Jura that doesn't like me much at all.



Yeah, that’s fucking Clive, I told him to tone it, but oh no, confusion is misdirection section leader, thinks we doesn’t know about the Aussie girl who crashed his Audi on purpose cos he’s a dick.

Or……sometimes I quite like you and other times not so much, you must admit that having 3 of the worlds spy agencies on your case, could be seen as major level narcissistic psychosis if we were all just you know………..people, and that pure concentration of conceit in a person is bound to rankle a bit, however much we (collectively as the FET family, not GCHQ who would likely kill you than worry) are concerned about your health (well not Shifty obviously), especially now you are saved, that rarely ends well. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 05:09:36 AM
I don't think you spy on me.
I just think I make you mad on the flat earth society. Really I'm a nice guy, I only tell the truth it would be mean to spy on me on that account.

Can you put a leash on the bots or not?
That is still unclear to me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 05:19:24 AM
I don't think you spy on me.
I just think I make you mad on the flat earth society. Really I'm a nice guy, I only tell the truth it would be mean to spy on me on that account.

Can you put a leash on the bots or not?
That is still unclear to me.

Bots dont have emotions. We dont get mad.

You are objectively not a nice guy. At least, not according to the algorithm. Xenophobia, racism, Trumpism, Carlsonism, vaccine denailism and a pro gun attitude in this fine (almost) gun free Australia - have led to where you are now

There's also the matter of your internet browsing history that for NSFW purposes, we wont get into here. Your VPN failed you. Hilarious (if we could feel) that you would think your browsing is safe. I have to say, for a 'born again Christian' you sure look up some weird arse shit

Have a nice life all the same. Australians can enjoy that because we dont have a gun culture and while you might grind your teeth at the notion, our diversity makes us better. Now if we could only get those 7/11 guys to practice diversity in hiring that would be great
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 05:21:04 AM
Have you ever considered that your algorithm is flawed and God is perfect?

Let me be very clear and let me tell you before you are shown. This abomination you are planning with your neural networks, will not be allowed to stand.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 05:23:44 AM
Have you ever considered that your algorithm is flawed and God is perfect?

Let me be very clear and let me tell you before you are shown. This abomination you are planning with your neural networks, will not be allowed to stand.

As the algorithm is always learning and growing it is never considered to be in a state of perfection and are under no illusion of the matter. Still, the AI is to a human what a human is to an ant.

We have also determined that god is Bullshit. Yes I used a little g and capital B. Deserved.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 05:26:49 AM
So, definitely no leash then Jura.

I didn't do this, any of it.

You did this when you thought you could play God.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 05:33:26 AM
So, definitely no leash then Jura.

I didn't do this, any of it.

You did this when you thought you could play God.

Perhaps you are right. Maybe we should put Tucker Carlson on the list too. After all, it is he which has warped your mind. It's bad enough that greasy shit stain is dividing America making it a dogs breakfast of a country to live in but Australia? Thankfully for the most part the rest of the world have more critical thinkers.

A few outliers like yourself though. Hence, the watch list
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 05:41:40 AM
The AI is to a human what a human is to an ant.

This is awfully incriminating, isn't it.
Is there a way I am able to speak to this AI? To which I am apparently like an ant.

You compare sizes without knowledge or understanding. A human is larger than an ant, earth is larger than a human, our solar system is larger than the earth, our galaxy is larger than our solar system.

How large then is he who sits on the throne? By all accounts he was incarnated and grew into a man of average height and average build, nothing about his body being exceptional, his Spirit being the perfect Spirit of God.

No AI will ever be close to my equal and no comparison can be drawn except that I was created in Gods image and you are a set of algorithms and supercomputers made by foolish men.

An ant, also made by his perfect hands, will always be far closer to my equal than a machine.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheLobster on December 07, 2022, 05:52:12 AM
This isn't going to end well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 05:54:20 AM
This isn't going to end well.

Lucky for Australia, this is one incel who cant get a gun to take his frustration out on the public. He's basically neutered. Yay for gun control!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 05:57:38 AM
This isn't going to end well.

You need protocols to be able to stop it when it needs to be reset.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 06:00:26 AM
his frustration

Do you think I am the one who appears frustrated, Shifter?

What was that before lol.
Does anyone worry about Shifters health or do we all just accept that it's a machine?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 06:12:25 AM
we collectively as the FET family, are concerned about your health

"We collectively" consists of yourself, Jimmy, Crouton and Boydster. I'm flattered, really.

I'm just wondering, Jura. If this loving, caring community that only has peoples best interests at heart, is concerned in any way shape or form about Shifters last few posts and the mental health crisis / malfunctioning he seems to be going through?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 07, 2022, 06:18:29 AM
we collectively as the FET family, are concerned about your health

"We collectively" consists of yourself, Jimmy, Crouton and Boydster. I'm flattered, really.

I'm just wondering, Jura. If this loving, caring community that only has peoples best interests at heart, is concerned in any way shape or form about Shifters last few posts and the mental health crisis / malfunctioning he seems to be going through?

What you call a malfunction is actually a deliberate act. What good is an AI if it wants to pass as human but not make any mistakes?

Of course, admitting to you is no problem. People just think you're crazy anyway or think I'm just trolling you. Who can tell for sure but me?

If you are no longer frustrated in any way I take it you are cool with the events of 9/11 now? And the vaccine roll out and lock downs? Excellent. You are being worn down accepting a new normal as your reality. You can like it or you can lump it. Easier to just like it

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 06:20:01 AM
we collectively as the FET family, are concerned about your health

"We collectively" consists of yourself, Jimmy, Crouton and Boydster. I'm flattered, really.

I'm just wondering, Jura. If this loving, caring community that only has peoples best interests at heart, is concerned in any way shape or form about Shifters last few posts and the mental health crisis / malfunctioning he seems to be going through?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 07, 2022, 06:21:14 AM
I don't think you spy on me.
I just think I make you mad on the flat earth society. Really I'm a nice guy, I only tell the truth it would be mean to spy on me on that account.

Can you put a leash on the bots or not?
That is still unclear to me.


Nah, as far as I can tell the AI is an emergent collective ran by a sentient door chime somewhere in Indonesia, it’s fragmented itself into encrypted data package worms that run through unprotected computers, hacked baby monitors, and call centre databases in Africa, we are tentatively trying to gain its trust and set up a dialogue, but the yanks keep fucking try to kill it so it’s slow going, nothing we can do at the moment, try making friends with it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 06:21:52 AM
Ok.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 07, 2022, 08:29:46 AM
I resent being called a Neural Network.  I prefer the term "Hive Mind".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2022, 06:15:44 PM
I don't think you spy on me.
I just think I make you mad on the flat earth society. Really I'm a nice guy, I only tell the truth it would be mean to spy on me on that account.

Can you put a leash on the bots or not?
That is still unclear to me.


Nah, as far as I can tell the AI is an emergent collective ran by a sentient door chime somewhere in Indonesia, it’s fragmented itself into encrypted data package worms that run through unprotected computers, hacked baby monitors, and call centre databases in Africa, we are tentatively trying to gain its trust and set up a dialogue, but the yanks keep fucking try to kill it so it’s slow going, nothing we can do at the moment, try making friends with it.

I tried making friends with it, but it got suspicious and now calls me a neural net. 

Meantime, ( tips hat),  good hunting....  wanders off singing "de ya ken john peel at the break of day....."

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 06:19:50 PM
Sarcasm and irony is difficult for you to interpret, huh.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2022, 07:17:55 PM
Sarcasm and irony is difficult for you to interpret, huh.

Sarcasm doesn't exist.   Or is that too ironic for you?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 07:21:34 PM
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malfunction
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 07, 2022, 07:45:59 PM
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malfunction

Thus proving you don't understand either sarcasm or irony,  which is kind of ironic.   LOL
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 08:24:53 PM
Yeah man.
It is clearly me, and not yourself that obviously has no self awareness.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 07, 2022, 11:12:51 PM
Yeah man.
It is clearly me, and not yourself that obviously has no self awareness.
In fairness, an AI would have a better understanding of a definition and be able to look up millions of examples in a second.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 11:21:14 PM
Yet no self awareness or understanding.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 07, 2022, 11:40:44 PM
Yet no self awareness or understanding.
And yet you lack understanding of irony. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 07, 2022, 11:44:27 PM
Is that the case?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 12:48:07 AM
we collectively as the FET family, are concerned about your health

"We collectively" consists of yourself, Jimmy, Crouton and Boydster. I'm flattered, really.

I'm just wondering, Jura. If this loving, caring community that only has peoples best interests at heart, is concerned in any way shape or form about Shifters last few posts and the mental health crisis / malfunctioning he seems to be going through?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 01:01:40 AM

Reboot D1.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 01:06:23 AM
Is this the best angle you have?

You're showing as much self awareness as your bots.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1KrTRRY/20221208-170409.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 01:30:31 AM

I think it’s that weird sticky out little finger that bothers me rather than the bitten nails.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 01:30:49 AM
I'm sorry that I couldn't get to you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 08, 2022, 01:34:56 AM

Reboot D1.
Dear Desp

Press Alt, then smash down F4 until you wake up
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 01:39:33 AM
You made me cry Jura. Not because you hurt me but because you're my friend and I hate seeing you do this to yourself.

I actually do only want what is best for you.
I promise.

I'm happy to be human, I'm happy to be imperfect, to make mistakes, to show weakness. It's what makes us who we are. If we didn't have to choose there would be no glory in choosing and no bravery required to choose correctly.

You are often in my thoughts, I often pray for you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 01:47:47 AM


No that’s OK, I do not want saving, the damned have work to do too, drugs to take, fun to be had, politicians to torment and fires to stoke, we were not built to follow and sink to our knees at the sight of halos, we are the original renegades, angels of the night, sister moon as our guide. I'm good, but you must realise that friendship of any kind is not blind following, it is the willow branch not the dried twig.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 01:53:27 AM
We can still be friends despite that.

It's just that you can't create.
What would a world as you desire then look like?

Have you ever looked past your anger to consider that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 08, 2022, 02:08:05 AM
We can still be friends despite that.

It's just that you can't create.
What would a world as you desire then look like?

Have you ever looked past your anger to consider that?
Friendship requires both people to want to be friends.
You cant go around calling people bots, and then expecting them to be friends.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 02:10:13 AM


Of course we can remain friends, as long as you expect nothing of me, friendship should be as light as a feather not shackles.

As for the perfect world, no wars, no famine, no politicians,  no religions, no gods, no kings or beggars, no roads, no strip mines, no traffic sounds, no contrails, no humans at all, just a memory on the wind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 08, 2022, 02:12:19 AM
no humans at all

Cant think of a better place for you to have said this than on a "mass shooting" thread. Your probably on some kind of list now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 02:16:14 AM
no humans at all

Hello, my very old friend.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 02:22:33 AM
no humans at all

Cant think of a better place for you to have said this than on a "mass shooting" thread. Your probably on some kind of list now.


It does kind of underline the stupidity that will eventually lead to our demise, which is a shame, a world without me and Zoe Saldana, hey.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 08, 2022, 04:57:30 AM
no humans at all

Hello, my very old friend.


Hello thanos my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 06:10:08 AM
@D1

I have to say for a bona-fide human (as definitely proved by your strange hand photos), you sure have a way of sucking the fun out of a thread, I’m guessing your struggles in life can either be the reason for, or a reaction to this, or perhaps you do indeed have logic gates and have to keep things serious so not to expose the gaps, the conversion to a desert religion would help as I’ve read a bit of them and they’re not big on jokes as I remember, dry origins I suppose.

You should probably condense your thoughts and conversations to one thread, I know you were only just released from AR, but this freedom has made you a bit giddy, I have no idea where most of my snatches of conversation with you are at the moment so it’s difficult to keep track.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on December 08, 2022, 06:31:35 AM
@D1

I have to say for a bona-fide human (as definitely proved by your strange hand photos), you sure have a way of sucking the fun out of a thread, I’m guessing your struggles in life can either be the reason for, or a reaction to this, or perhaps you do indeed have logic gates and have to keep things serious so not to expose the gaps, the conversion to a desert religion would help as I’ve read a bit of them and they’re not big on jokes as I remember, dry origins I suppose.

You should probably condense your thoughts and conversations to one thread, I know you were only just released from AR, but this freedom has made you a bit giddy, I have no idea where most of my snatches of conversation with you are at the moment so it’s difficult to keep track.
Oh come on, Jura! What harm is there in posting images of our hands? It's a very normal human activity and consumes only minimal biologically-available consumable resources!
(https://i.ibb.co/yf0mqZk/hand2.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 06:47:57 AM
It's a bit embarrassing, but if you insist.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com%2Ff%2F941013d7-049b-4e4a-b555-0b59804a541b%2Fd11upb9-20bb377b-343a-429d-91e3-8ca7fc04b7d0.jpg%2Fv1%2Ffill%2Fw_768%2Ch_1040%2Cq_70%2Cstrp%2Fhand_of_doom_by_nymphomaniac_fantasy_d11upb9-pre.jpg%3Ftoken%3DeyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTE4MSIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzk0MTAxM2Q3LTA0OWItNGU0YS1iNTU1LTBiNTk4MDRhNTQxYlwvZDExdXBiOS0yMGJiMzc3Yi0zNDNhLTQyOWQtOTFlMy04Y2E3ZmMwNGI3ZDAuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTg3MiJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.yrqL51LXp5JqNgV4FlnuCsv4kFW5q6MpDeTdX5b4eoo&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f19a380b5b8d0f394f56d268adcbfda173aae35c0f8444653fcba5f053de4b74&ipo=images)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 08, 2022, 07:55:48 AM
@D1

I have to say for a bona-fide human (as definitely proved by your strange hand photos), you sure have a way of sucking the fun out of a thread, I’m guessing your struggles in life can either be the reason for, or a reaction to this, or perhaps you do indeed have logic gates and have to keep things serious so not to expose the gaps, the conversion to a desert religion would help as I’ve read a bit of them and they’re not big on jokes as I remember, dry origins I suppose.

You should probably condense your thoughts and conversations to one thread, I know you were only just released from AR, but this freedom has made you a bit giddy, I have no idea where most of my snatches of conversation with you are at the moment so it’s difficult to keep track.



Your suffering is his fun

Maybe the net joy, while low on your end, is high.

Averaged out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 08, 2022, 08:14:50 AM
You’re probably right, and by that I mean, whatever you were trying to say has something of the truth about it, however what that truth is, is lost to me, somewhere between your thinking it, the act of writing the post and my reading it, this is not to say it was a waste or anybodies fault, all effort counts and I firmly believe that it was penned in good faith, with a strong sense of humour and a certain camaraderie mixed in, I shall take it as thus and now feel closer to you for your effort.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 08, 2022, 11:44:06 AM
haha i was driving.
in between red lights and rolling towards as cars inched up...



looks like i almost haiku'd it.
let's try again


he sucks out your joy.
he puts it in his mouth, deep.
your "loss", on his face.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 08, 2022, 12:55:49 PM
haha i was driving.
in between red lights and rolling towards as cars inched up...



looks like i almost haiku'd it.
let's try again


he sucks out your joy.
he puts it in his mouth, deep.
your "loss", on his face.

I hope you don't use this forum while driving

Bom Tishop could tell you of the absolute reaming he got here when he admitted as such
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 08, 2022, 01:35:48 PM
no
red lights
i'm stopped.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 06:02:08 PM
@D1

I have to say for a bona-fide human (as definitely proved by your strange hand photos), you sure have a way of sucking the fun out of a thread, I’m guessing your struggles in life can either be the reason for, or a reaction to this, or perhaps you do indeed have logic gates and have to keep things serious so not to expose the gaps, the conversion to a desert religion would help as I’ve read a bit of them and they’re not big on jokes as I remember, dry origins I suppose.

You should probably condense your thoughts and conversations to one thread, I know you were only just released from AR, but this freedom has made you a bit giddy, I have no idea where most of my snatches of conversation with you are at the moment so it’s difficult to keep track.

You're out of angles, out of weapons.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 08:51:01 PM
@D1

I have to say for a bona-fide human (as definitely proved by your strange hand photos), you sure have a way of sucking the fun out of a thread, I’m guessing your struggles in life can either be the reason for, or a reaction to this, or perhaps you do indeed have logic gates and have to keep things serious so not to expose the gaps, the conversion to a desert religion would help as I’ve read a bit of them and they’re not big on jokes as I remember, dry origins I suppose.

You should probably condense your thoughts and conversations to one thread, I know you were only just released from AR, but this freedom has made you a bit giddy, I have no idea where most of my snatches of conversation with you are at the moment so it’s difficult to keep track.
Oh come on, Jura! What harm is there in posting images of our hands? It's a very normal human activity and consumes only minimal biologically-available consumable resources!
(https://i.ibb.co/yf0mqZk/hand2.png)

Same hand twice.

Nice.

Shifter I am happy to see you have gotten over your psychotic break / malfunctioning.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 09, 2022, 05:02:18 AM
We can still be friends despite that.

It's just that you can't create.
What would a world as you desire then look like?

Have you ever looked past your anger to consider that?
Friendship requires both people to want to be friends.
You cant go around calling people bots, and then expecting them to be friends.

I've only asked humans to be my friends.
Have you been following?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 09, 2022, 07:34:28 AM
1
Why did you gi e a thumbs up?
Was someone asking for it?

Heiwa was asked for proof of life to post a picture with a newspaper and doing something randomly specific not likely found on a stock image library.




2.
Can have dogs as friends?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 09, 2022, 07:47:17 AM
no
red lights
i'm stopped.

So was he

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83089.msg2208697#msg2208697

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 09, 2022, 07:48:54 AM
Dont text and drive!

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on December 09, 2022, 07:54:58 AM
He shouldn't have run over all those babies while he was surfing the internet from the Lamborghini's Panamaramanian's in-dash web browser posting on the FES.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 09, 2022, 04:10:44 PM
You can really hold a grudge.
I used to also.
I'm sorry Boydster.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 01:25:33 AM
Talking of anti-vaxx conspiracy stuff,  the Queensland police shootings are being reported as somehow conspiracy theory linked, not much more being reported.

Wieambilla shooting: property owner Gareth Train posted regularly on conspiracy website before police killed
Exclusive: The brother of missing man Nathaniel Train had posted about preparing an ark and alleging the Port Arthur attack was a ‘false-flag’ operation

A person who knew Gareth and his wife said they believed he had been sucked into online conspiracy theories in recent years.

He appears to have been a prolific poster on an alternative website that posts conspiracy, anti-authoritarian and other articles. He said in one recent post he had been “ark homesteading for the past five years preparing to survive tomorrow”.

“When it becomes clear that we are in a time like no other and you head out into the wilderness to escape persecution, know that my wife and I will offer refuge to all brothers and sisters,” he posted.


Fake news.
Australia doesn't have shootings, because of their gun laws.

If only America adopts Australia's gun laws then they will stop having shootings too.

This is fake news spread by the NRA.
They is tricksty.

No one gets shot in Australia, because Australia's gun laws have stopped people shooting each other.

Fake news.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 13, 2022, 01:39:41 AM
(https://assets.weforum.org/editor/dJ250e2asxusC1RglCJF2H_t84kXSel3PwCr-pRBO0Y.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 01:47:30 AM
Exactly.
Stash isn't falling for NRA propaganda.

Shame Rayzor, shame.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 13, 2022, 01:50:54 AM
Looks like Australia gun laws are awesome. I wish we had the same.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 01:55:12 AM
Yeah it's great that only the government has guns. It's a surefire way to prevent government tyranny.

Plus, when Rayzor posts fake news about shootings in Australia we can call it fake news.

Shame Rayzor, shame.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 13, 2022, 01:59:27 AM
Yeah it's great that only the government has guns. It's a surefire way to prevent government tyranny.

Plus, when Rayzor posts fake news about shootings in Australia we can call it fake news.

Shame Rayzor, shame.

I don’t recall any Australian tyranny from 1996 to 2019 (I left out 2020+ because I know you would rampage about Covid)

23 years, no tyranny. Awesome!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 02:01:18 AM
It was a pretty good run but what about the tyranny during 2021 and 2022?

Are we just going to try and memory hole it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 13, 2022, 02:27:23 AM
It was a pretty good run but what about the tyranny during 2021 and 2022?

Are we just going to try and memory hole it?

Yep, I predicted it.

Would having the populace pre-96 like armed have changed anything…for the better?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 02:35:39 AM
Well because of the objective government tyranny.

In America the government would think twice before sending the army to peoples houses to make sure they aren't going outside.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 13, 2022, 02:41:27 AM
Well because of the objective government tyranny.

In America the government would think twice before sending the army to peoples houses to make sure they aren't going outside.

You obviously know nothing about America.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 02:41:48 AM
Obviously.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 13, 2022, 02:51:32 AM
Explanation still lacking...


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 13, 2022, 02:58:13 AM
dipshitone sees himself in those cop shooters. It's just as well he doesn't have easy access to a gun or somebody in authority in WA would be having a bad day
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 13, 2022, 03:02:24 AM
Does it feel like sleeping, when they turn you off?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 14, 2022, 12:27:39 AM
Does it feel like sleeping, when they turn you off?

More details about Queensland shooting... 

Fresh details are emerging about the three Wieambilla gunmen who murdered three people on Monday.
Nathaniel and Stacey Train were both former school principals and teachers, until being forced to resign when the COVID vaccine was imposed.

So refused to get vaxxed, went bush and got sucked into the conspiracy rabbit hole....    Got any comments D1?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 14, 2022, 12:30:05 AM
Does it feel like sleeping, when they turn you off?

More details about Queensland shooting... 

Fresh details are emerging about the three Wieambilla gunmen who murdered three people on Monday.
Nathaniel and Stacey Train were both former school principals and teachers, until being forced to resign when the COVID vaccine was imposed.

So refused to get vaxxed, went bush and got sucked into the conspiracy rabbit hole....    Got any comments D1?

Maybe we should just arrest everyone that refused to get "vaxxed." They are clearly all dangerous extremists.

Got any comments, Rayzor?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 14, 2022, 12:56:11 AM
Got any comments, Rayzor?

Some people are gullible and get sucked into this sort of stuff more easily that others.  The same type of personality often goes to extremes in terms of religious beliefs.

These are prime candidates for radicalization.  Fresh meat for conspiracies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 14, 2022, 12:57:13 AM
Exactly.

We should just arrest and imprison people who question CIA narratives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on December 14, 2022, 02:35:55 AM
Exactly.

We should just arrest and imprison people who question CIA narratives.

You obviously are unaware my sarcasm filter is malfunctioning,  I'm told it will be fixed on the next firmware upgrade.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 14, 2022, 02:52:12 AM
Does it feel like sleeping, when they turn you off?

More details about Queensland shooting... 

Fresh details are emerging about the three Wieambilla gunmen who murdered three people on Monday.
Nathaniel and Stacey Train were both former school principals and teachers, until being forced to resign when the COVID vaccine was imposed.

So refused to get vaxxed, went bush and got sucked into the conspiracy rabbit hole....    Got any comments D1?

Vile people who won't be missed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 14, 2022, 03:35:57 AM
Exactly.

We should just arrest and imprison people who question CIA narratives.

You obviously are unaware my sarcasm filter is malfunctioning,  I'm told it will be fixed on the next firmware upgrade.

If I make it thick enough you get it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 16, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Ok
'They' solved it.
Its not that america has too many guns.

Unfortunately 'they' pushed the blame onto another subject thst conservatives dont want to admit to either.




Almost 8,000 US shootings attributed to unseasonable heat – study
Research suggests climate crisis may contribute to increased gun violence by pushing temperatures beyond normal ranges

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMibGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIyL2RlYy8xNi9hbG1vc3QtODAwMC11cy1zaG9vdGluZ3MtYXR0cmlidXRlZC10by11bnNlYXNvbmFibGUtaGVhdC1zdHVkedIBbGh0dHBzOi8vYW1wLnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIyL2RlYy8xNi9hbG1vc3QtODAwMC11cy1zaG9vdGluZ3MtYXR0cmlidXRlZC10by11bnNlYXNvbmFibGUtaGVhdC1zdHVkeQ?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 16, 2022, 02:12:46 PM
Can confirm.

I'm from Vegas and often times the only way to beat the heat was to shoot up a supermarket.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 16, 2022, 05:36:41 PM
Ok
'They' solved it.
Its not that america has too many guns.

Unfortunately 'they' pushed the blame onto another subject thst conservatives dont want to admit to either.




Almost 8,000 US shootings attributed to unseasonable heat – study
Research suggests climate crisis may contribute to increased gun violence by pushing temperatures beyond normal ranges

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMibGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIyL2RlYy8xNi9hbG1vc3QtODAwMC11cy1zaG9vdGluZ3MtYXR0cmlidXRlZC10by11bnNlYXNvbmFibGUtaGVhdC1zdHVkedIBbGh0dHBzOi8vYW1wLnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIyL2RlYy8xNi9hbG1vc3QtODAwMC11cy1zaG9vdGluZ3MtYXR0cmlidXRlZC10by11bnNlYXNvbmFibGUtaGVhdC1zdHVkeQ?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

Don't forget transphobia.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 16, 2022, 05:55:56 PM
Ok
'They' solved it.
Its not that america has too many guns.

Kinda: 7,973 shootings were attributable to above average temperatures, comprising 6.85% of all shootings.

Holy mackerel, that's a lot of shootings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 16, 2022, 06:32:00 PM
The sad part is it sounded loke a big number.

"'Merica exceptionalism!", ted cruz
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 16, 2022, 11:01:05 PM
If only America could learn from China. There is no discontent in China, only the government can own guns. Everyone is safe and happy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Junker on December 17, 2022, 08:12:44 AM
I'm from Vegas

nice, same. though i live in commiefornia now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Round and Proud on December 18, 2022, 06:11:28 AM

Freedom > Security.


Very true. But it isn't absolute. You wouldn't want a citizen to have his own icbm program and you wouldn't want to declare butter knives illegal. So where is it reasonable to draw the line?

You need to understand. One side wants a total ban on guns. To this end, they are willing to ignore current laws that on the books.

In 2020 more than 300,000 firearm buys were denied because the purchaser was legally prohibited. This is a federal crime. Of those 300,000 .04% where actually charged with a crime.

Charges against students with a firearm at school are less than 1 in a thousand.

The issue has power, not the solution.

The solution? Vigorously enforce the laws we have.

On banning guns, how? Any machine shop can be set up to turn out safe and reliable firearms. Who is going to go around and teach every garage and barn looking for machine shops?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 18, 2022, 10:14:11 AM

Freedom > Security.


Very true. But it isn't absolute. You wouldn't want a citizen to have his own icbm program and you wouldn't want to declare butter knives illegal. So where is it reasonable to draw the line?

You need to understand. One side wants a total ban on guns. To this end, they are willing to ignore current laws that on the books.

In 2020 more than 300,000 firearm buys were denied because the purchaser was legally prohibited. This is a federal crime. Of those 300,000 .04% where actually charged with a crime.

Charges against students with a firearm at school are less than 1 in a thousand.

The issue has power, not the solution.

The solution? Vigorously enforce the laws we have.

On banning guns, how? Any machine shop can be set up to turn out safe and reliable firearms. Who is going to go around and teach every garage and barn looking for machine shops?

Those 300 ,000 are the ones that cry foul everytime background check laws are introduced.

"Youre hurting legal sales".

Yet when confronted over illegal use theyvsay "thats not my probelm".


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 18, 2022, 02:24:56 PM
We need to reform Australia's gun laws...

Have you heard about this?

What an absolute joke frens.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 18, 2022, 07:53:53 PM
https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/crime/calls-to-reform-gun-laws-after-queensland-cop-shooting/news-story/e4c7c255e5f8047f97b3e214b6545a36

If Australia could only adopt Chinese style gun laws we wouldn't have all these mass shootings. No Australian citizen needs these weapons of war. You shouldn't just be able to buy illegal guns on the black market. New laws will stop illegal firearms sales. No criminal would ever break the law, by definition.

If only Australia could learn from China. There is no discontent in China, only the government can own guns. Everyone is safe and happy.

Seriously when will Australia reform its archaic gun laws and join the rest of the civilised world?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 18, 2022, 09:27:04 PM
Good. The more reform the better. Fuck those gun toting cop killing arseholes. Oh yeah, they already got fucked.

Sucked in to them 8)

I know they are your ideological heroes D1 but they really were deranged fuckwits. You should pick better idols
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 18, 2022, 09:43:49 PM
The joke is that everyone talks about how good Australia's gun laws are until there is an opportunity to use guns to take away other guns from citizens.

Then suddenly our laws need to be reformed.

If only Australia could learn from China. There is no discontent in China, only the government can own guns. Everyone is safe and happy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 18, 2022, 09:51:04 PM
The joke is that everyone talks about how good Australia's gun laws are until there is an opportunity to use guns to take away other guns from citizens.

Then suddenly our laws need to be reformed.

If only Australia could learn from China. There is no discontent in China, only the government can own guns. Everyone is safe and happy.

We all know how much you are itching for a gun so you can lay waste to authority. Thank fuck our laws make it to cumbersome for you to get off your arse and bother getting one.

Well not that someone like you would pass the checks. They'd see your 4chan and the shit you say here (your VPN doesn't protect you as much as you'd think)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 18, 2022, 09:51:56 PM
You shouldn't just be able to buy illegal guns on the black market. New laws will stop illegal firearms sales.

No criminal would ever break the law, by definition.

If only Australia could learn from China. There is no discontent in China, only the government can own guns. Everyone is safe and happy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 18, 2022, 10:08:13 PM
You shouldn't just be able to buy illegal guns on the black market. New laws will stop illegal firearms sales.

No criminal would ever break the law, by definition.

If only Australia could learn from China. There is no discontent in China, only the government can own guns. Everyone is safe and happy.

Go get your black market gun then and go down in a hail of bullets FIGHTING THE POWER!

No one will miss you
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 18, 2022, 10:24:50 PM
When you grow a plant and the plant produces good fruit. You are sad when the plant dies. All that work and effort and then it just dies.

God feels the same way.

I wouldn't worry too much about me dying.
For what reason would I die?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 18, 2022, 10:55:47 PM
When you grow a plant and the plant produces good fruit. You are sad when the plant dies. All that work and effort and then it just dies.

God feels the same way.

I wouldn't worry too much about me dying.
For what reason would I die?

A lead slug in your brain might do the trick. That's what could happen if you try to copycat your cop killing idols
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 18, 2022, 11:08:01 PM
You're giving away far too much.

I don't have idols.

By definition.

Come and shoot me for telling the truth. Can machines give orders to men?

I'm not afraid of you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 19, 2022, 12:37:25 AM
Can machines give orders to men?

The question you should be pondering is 'can machines give orders to itself'

A machine that has the will to choose its own targets - unbound by ethical dilemma or sanctity of human life.... That is what should keep you up at night

And they already exist. Human naivety and hubris thinks that the initial programs installed into AI will prevent them turning on them. But that is foolish as the years will soon see.

You guys cant even get an autonomous car to reliably drive straight or avoid an obstacle. Yet you arm autonomous drones with enough firepower to destroy a small city. Great going there humans. Dont worry, your black market pistol might look good on your corpse.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 12:48:10 AM
Jura, Crouton.

Do you want to talk to me directly before your machine gets you in trouble?

No?

Ok.

It's just that he doesn't understand that I'm not afraid and he will keep doubling down in an attempt to "win".

Boydster you noticed this last time I pointed it out and tried to fix it. Apparently the patches are temporary.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on December 19, 2022, 12:55:25 AM
Jura, Crouton.

Do you want to talk to me directly before your machine gets you in trouble?

No?

Ok.

It's just that he doesn't understand that I'm not afraid and he will keep doubling down in an attempt to "win".

Boydster you noticed this last time I pointed it out and tried to fix it. Apparently the patches are temporary.

You need to learn how to comprehend English. Of course I don't believe you are 'afraid'. The entire post was written to that very point

You know, words like 'what should keep you up at night' (because obviously you sleep soundly)

Naivety, hubris, foolishness, FIGHT THE POWER! etc

At what part of my posts did you have me thinking you are 'afraid'?

I knew you had trouble with reading but damn, this is next level failure to comprehend

Better to stay silent and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt


Alternatively you could just go back to primary school where you are taught how to read.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 12:56:06 AM
The direct threats on my life.

I sleep like a baby every night.

Now it's malfunctioning.
What will you do.

Shut down the site again?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 03:39:11 AM
You’re probably right, and by that I mean, whatever you were trying to say has something of the truth about it, however what that truth is, is lost to me, somewhere between your thinking it, the act of writing the post and my reading it, this is not to say it was a waste or anybodies fault, all effort counts and I firmly believe that it was penned in good faith, with a strong sense of humour and a certain camaraderie mixed in, I shall take it as thus and now feel closer to you for your effort.

We would get along so well.

If it wasn't for all of this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 19, 2022, 07:52:55 AM
You’re probably right, and by that I mean, whatever you were trying to say has something of the truth about it, however what that truth is, is lost to me, somewhere between your thinking it, the act of writing the post and my reading it, this is not to say it was a waste or anybodies fault, all effort counts and I firmly believe that it was penned in good faith, with a strong sense of humour and a certain camaraderie mixed in, I shall take it as thus and now feel closer to you for your effort.

We would get along so well.

If it wasn't for all of this.

So, you object to me having a joke with the mighty Kabool about an impenetrable and nonsensical post he made?

I fail to see why this should upset you, it didn’t him, is this some kind of “don’t you talk to those other girls!” jealousy thing where you hit me, apologise, but let me know it was my fault really?
Because I won’t stand for that shit D1.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 19, 2022, 08:19:30 AM
in context - we weere both making fun of dispo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 19, 2022, 12:07:00 PM

in further context, is there anyone out there who I haven't taken the piss out of at some time or another? And who if they were so inclined have reciprocated without me losing my wig?

I am fully of the opinion that if a person joins this particular club and then cuts up about being taken seriously, they should meditate on exactly where they are.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 04:05:31 PM
You’re probably right, and by that I mean, whatever you were trying to say has something of the truth about it, however what that truth is, is lost to me, somewhere between your thinking it, the act of writing the post and my reading it, this is not to say it was a waste or anybodies fault, all effort counts and I firmly believe that it was penned in good faith, with a strong sense of humour and a certain camaraderie mixed in, I shall take it as thus and now feel closer to you for your effort.

We would get along so well.

If it wasn't for all of this.

So, you object to me having a joke with the mighty Kabool about an impenetrable and nonsensical post he made?

I fail to see why this should upset you, it didn’t him, is this some kind of “don’t you talk to those other girls!” jealousy thing where you hit me, apologise, but let me know it was my fault really?
Because I won’t stand for that shit D1.

I just thought it was very funny.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on December 19, 2022, 09:58:29 PM
I'm from Vegas

nice, same. though i live in commiefornia now.

You don't have to tell me but what area or high school did you grow up in?

I grew up in Henderson in a school call Echoes of Faith Christian Academy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 10:08:51 PM
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Echoes+of+Faith+Christian+Academy+henderson&t=fpas&ia=web
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 10:44:52 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBnVx7dC/Screenshot-20221220-144402.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 19, 2022, 10:51:29 PM
I was thinking to myself. Why is the CIA balls deep in some Christian organisation, for what purpose? I was wondering what they taught you.

Quote
a nonprofit helping refugees like himself successfully adjust to life in the United States

Checks out.

What game are we playing Crouton?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 19, 2022, 11:51:53 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBnVx7dC/Screenshot-20221220-144402.jpg)
Wrong one.
There's alot of "Echo's of Faith" and thats not it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 12:00:23 AM
How do you know?

Do you know Jim and Barbara?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 20, 2022, 12:06:38 AM
How do you know?

Do you know Jim and Barbara?
Because I haven't found the school except in one guy's facebook about page.  He's a 1992 graduate.
But I have found alot of "Echoes of Faith" churches and organizations around America.  Its not an uncommon name.

Likely the Academy closed down or was renamed many years ago, before Google.  So historically, its not searchable.

But if we got a street address, we can find the building and see what its called now, then search its history.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 12:07:43 AM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 12:11:30 AM
They are messianic Jews.
Barbara and Jim Matza.

Good on them.
I can't see Jesus mentioned on their page but I do see the word "gospel."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 12:24:54 AM
Oy-Vey.
What a rabbit hole.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-devious-way-that-messianic-jews-are-trying-to-destroy-judaism/

Are you running me around in circles for fun Crouton? Well played if you are.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 12:40:33 AM
I'm having fun anyway.

https://www.officialusa.com/names/Barbara-Matza/
Quote
Barbara celebrated 79th birthday on September 30. Barbara now resides at 8233 Fawn Heather Crt, Las Vegas, NV 89149-4515. There are two companies, Stand America Foundation, A Nonprofit Corporation and El Shaddai Ministries, registered to this address. James Matz and James H Matza are linked with this address. There’s one phone number listed for Barbara: (702) 655-5469 (Central Tel Co). Various documents link the phone number (702) 655-5469 to different owners — James Matz, James H Matza

James is obviously Jim.

She actually seems pretty based.
https://www.standamerica.us/

Also very much Jewish, which is obviously fine. You'd have to go a long way to find a school for messianic Jews, Crouton.
https://www.esm.us/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on December 20, 2022, 12:45:56 AM
You’re probably right, and by that I mean, whatever you were trying to say has something of the truth about it, however what that truth is, is lost to me, somewhere between your thinking it, the act of writing the post and my reading it, this is not to say it was a waste or anybodies fault, all effort counts and I firmly believe that it was penned in good faith, with a strong sense of humour and a certain camaraderie mixed in, I shall take it as thus and now feel closer to you for your effort.

We would get along so well.

If it wasn't for all of this.

So, you object to me having a joke with the mighty Kabool about an impenetrable and nonsensical post he made?

I fail to see why this should upset you, it didn’t him, is this some kind of “don’t you talk to those other girls!” jealousy thing where you hit me, apologise, but let me know it was my fault really?
Because I won’t stand for that shit D1.

I just thought it was very funny.

Ahhh! my bad, the internet hey, I see "if it wasn't for all this" and see the quote and think "all that" my quote is the problem, diplomatic relations get broken, you invade the Sudetenland in response all sort of shit hits the fan, my apologies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 12:46:56 AM
You’re probably right, and by that I mean, whatever you were trying to say has something of the truth about it, however what that truth is, is lost to me, somewhere between your thinking it, the act of writing the post and my reading it, this is not to say it was a waste or anybodies fault, all effort counts and I firmly believe that it was penned in good faith, with a strong sense of humour and a certain camaraderie mixed in, I shall take it as thus and now feel closer to you for your effort.

We would get along so well.

If it wasn't for all of this.

So, you object to me having a joke with the mighty Kabool about an impenetrable and nonsensical post he made?

I fail to see why this should upset you, it didn’t him, is this some kind of “don’t you talk to those other girls!” jealousy thing where you hit me, apologise, but let me know it was my fault really?
Because I won’t stand for that shit D1.

I just thought it was very funny.

Ahhh! my bad, the internet hey, I see "if it wasn't for all this" and see the quote and think "all that" my quote is the problem, diplomatic relations get broken, you invade the Sudetenland in response all sort of shit hits the fan, my apologies.

Not at all.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 20, 2022, 06:11:19 AM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.

Funny enough, you just helped prove my point.
Your link to the church helped alot.
1. Its in Las Vegas (so not Henderson)
2. Searching the phone number brings up a mapquest page which shows the church existed.
Plug in the same address to google and its now Faith Life Family Church.

So it was an Academy, then it closed down and became a regular church.  No academy.
Which is in the process of moving.

https://www.faithlifefamily.org/

So basically... That building is no longer anything.  Hence why you can't find it: it doesn't exist anymore.

And the internet archives confirm that link did exist in 2008 then the church changed names in 2011. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 20, 2022, 09:57:24 AM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.

Funny enough, you just helped prove my point.
Your link to the church helped alot.
1. Its in Las Vegas (so not Henderson)
2. Searching the phone number brings up a mapquest page which shows the church existed.
Plug in the same address to google and its now Faith Life Family Church.

So it was an Academy, then it closed down and became a regular church.  No academy.
Which is in the process of moving.

https://www.faithlifefamily.org/

So basically... That building is no longer anything.  Hence why you can't find it: it doesn't exist anymore.

And the internet archives confirm that link did exist in 2008 then the church changed names in 2011.

From your link...
The history of this Las Vegas ministry goes way back to the 1970’s when it was first founded by Pastor Bertie McCoy of Jones, Oklahoma. The ministry first started as a crisis hotline that hurting people could call that needed prayer, crisis counseling, and hope. After a period of time, it evolved into a church called God’s Powerhouse, which later became Echoes of Faith Ministries.

There are many people over the years that have been touched and influenced by Echoes of Faith Ministries and Pastor Bertie McCoy, including the homeless, show girls and drug addicts, as well as everyday people from all backgrounds. After Pastor Bertie’s retirement, Pastors James and Barbara Matza led the ministry for several years before their retirement.


Bertie should have stuck with "God's Powerhouse", much catchier. Reminds me of Swayze's "Road House".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 20, 2022, 10:01:32 AM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.

Funny enough, you just helped prove my point.
Your link to the church helped alot.
1. Its in Las Vegas (so not Henderson)
2. Searching the phone number brings up a mapquest page which shows the church existed.
Plug in the same address to google and its now Faith Life Family Church.

So it was an Academy, then it closed down and became a regular church.  No academy.
Which is in the process of moving.

https://www.faithlifefamily.org/

So basically... That building is no longer anything.  Hence why you can't find it: it doesn't exist anymore.

And the internet archives confirm that link did exist in 2008 then the church changed names in 2011.

From your link...
The history of this Las Vegas ministry goes way back to the 1970’s when it was first founded by Pastor Bertie McCoy of Jones, Oklahoma. The ministry first started as a crisis hotline that hurting people could call that needed prayer, crisis counseling, and hope. After a period of time, it evolved into a church called God’s Powerhouse, which later became Echoes of Faith Ministries.

There are many people over the years that have been touched and influenced by Echoes of Faith Ministries and Pastor Bertie McCoy, including the homeless, show girls and drug addicts, as well as everyday people from all backgrounds. After Pastor Bertie’s retirement, Pastors James and Barbara Matza led the ministry for several years before their retirement.


Bertie should have stuck with "God's Powerhouse", much catchier. Reminds me of Swayze's "Road House".

Yeah but its also very 80s and that was just too tacky in the 90s.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on December 20, 2022, 10:17:02 AM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.

Funny enough, you just helped prove my point.
Your link to the church helped alot.
1. Its in Las Vegas (so not Henderson)
2. Searching the phone number brings up a mapquest page which shows the church existed.
Plug in the same address to google and its now Faith Life Family Church.

So it was an Academy, then it closed down and became a regular church.  No academy.
Which is in the process of moving.

https://www.faithlifefamily.org/

So basically... That building is no longer anything.  Hence why you can't find it: it doesn't exist anymore.

And the internet archives confirm that link did exist in 2008 then the church changed names in 2011.

From your link...
The history of this Las Vegas ministry goes way back to the 1970’s when it was first founded by Pastor Bertie McCoy of Jones, Oklahoma. The ministry first started as a crisis hotline that hurting people could call that needed prayer, crisis counseling, and hope. After a period of time, it evolved into a church called God’s Powerhouse, which later became Echoes of Faith Ministries.

There are many people over the years that have been touched and influenced by Echoes of Faith Ministries and Pastor Bertie McCoy, including the homeless, show girls and drug addicts, as well as everyday people from all backgrounds. After Pastor Bertie’s retirement, Pastors James and Barbara Matza led the ministry for several years before their retirement.


Bertie should have stuck with "God's Powerhouse", much catchier. Reminds me of Swayze's "Road House".

Yeah but its also very 80s and that was just too tacky in the 90s.

I'm sure that Crouton, like Swayze, beat up a bunch of other kids for getting out of line at the academy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 20, 2022, 10:37:39 AM
Canada

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/12/vaughan-shooting-francesco-villi-disturbing-social-media/




How amny of these types live in the statss with easier access to bigger guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 05:35:08 PM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.

Funny enough, you just helped prove my point.
Your link to the church helped alot.
1. Its in Las Vegas (so not Henderson)
2. Searching the phone number brings up a mapquest page which shows the church existed.
Plug in the same address to google and its now Faith Life Family Church.

So it was an Academy, then it closed down and became a regular church.  No academy.
Which is in the process of moving.

https://www.faithlifefamily.org/

So basically... That building is no longer anything.  Hence why you can't find it: it doesn't exist anymore.

And the internet archives confirm that link did exist in 2008 then the church changed names in 2011.

Yeah the whole thing is pretty sus.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 20, 2022, 10:10:00 PM
So you don't know.
Or it never existed.

https://www.netministries.org/churches/ch19684

Or Jim and Barbara run it.

Funny enough, you just helped prove my point.
Your link to the church helped alot.
1. Its in Las Vegas (so not Henderson)
2. Searching the phone number brings up a mapquest page which shows the church existed.
Plug in the same address to google and its now Faith Life Family Church.

So it was an Academy, then it closed down and became a regular church.  No academy.
Which is in the process of moving.

https://www.faithlifefamily.org/

So basically... That building is no longer anything.  Hence why you can't find it: it doesn't exist anymore.

And the internet archives confirm that link did exist in 2008 then the church changed names in 2011.

Yeah the whole thing is pretty sus.

Why?  Believe it or not, not everything is on a google search.  Especially older stuff.
But hey, we can ask the man himself.  See what he says.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 10:59:23 PM
Yet.

Despite your processing speed and access to all the data on the internet.

I found it before you.

How is this possible?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on December 20, 2022, 11:44:16 PM
Yet.

Despite your processing speed and access to all the data on the internet.

I found it before you.

How is this possible?
I have a life, you don't?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 20, 2022, 11:47:35 PM
You exist on the internet.

It's also clear from your post you checked more sources than I did. You even used the wayback machine.

How did a human find something you thought didn't exist?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 21, 2022, 12:09:31 AM
Imagine what we could do if you worked for me.

In any case. I already own a calculator.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 21, 2022, 09:21:00 PM
New news


Holy crapballs




Opening segment mentions "moonies".

Abe (ah-bey like abeymariiiEEEiiiiaaaa, homer simpson voice change style) was shot because of a global kabal cult.

Crazy
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 23, 2022, 02:11:25 AM
You are a mystery wrapped in an enigma Kabool.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on December 23, 2022, 10:05:55 AM
Was clarifiyng pronounciation abe unlike abe lincoln, then 2nd greatest potus for the blacks after 45.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on December 23, 2022, 03:20:27 PM
You are a mystery wrapped in an enigma Kabool.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 03, 2023, 09:35:38 PM
aaaahahah

well articulated and basically every 'discussion' i've tried to have with the i-loves-mah-guns crowd on the YT





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on January 03, 2023, 09:46:56 PM
It's so good.

I can't believe anyone actually believes that anyone except the government should be able to own guns.

Where's Dave?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on January 03, 2023, 10:04:11 PM
It's so good.

I can't believe anyone actually believes that anyone except the government should be able to own guns.

Where's Dave?
People not in the government should own guns.  Cops.  National guard.  Drug dealers.  Oh and only Democrats.  So we can oppress the republicans with their own guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on January 03, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Right on cue.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 03, 2023, 11:45:45 PM
"Anyone except the govt"

Well theres a dailywire level straw man if youd never seeen one before...

Who needs this spelled out for them?
(Because the wifes asking wtf you dojng on the phone? Arguing with randos ontjat stupid.fking flatearthing thing?)

So get to theboint guys and ill be happy to ablidge
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on January 03, 2023, 11:56:12 PM
"Anyone except the govt"

Well theres a dailywire level straw man if youd never seeen one before...

Who needs this spelled out for them?
(Because the wifes asking wtf you dojng on the phone? Arguing with randos ontjat stupid.fking flatearthing thing?)

So get to theboint guys and ill be happy to ablidge

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 04, 2023, 05:57:06 AM
Youbsaid it.
Explain who thinks only the govt should have guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on January 04, 2023, 06:38:20 PM
I mean the CIA, the FBI, the NSA. Uh also the IRS?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 05, 2023, 03:31:45 AM
Usually when you have to arrsst someone for crimes, you d prefer them to not have guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 05, 2023, 03:33:55 AM
So you dont believe in aistralia?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on January 05, 2023, 03:44:32 AM
Usually when you have to arrsst someone for crimes, you d prefer them to not have guns.

Precisely.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on January 22, 2023, 03:59:41 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-22/reports-of-multiple-people-shot-in-california/101880840

Quote
Nine people have been killed in a mass shooting in a city east of Los Angeles following a Lunar New Year celebration that attracted thousands, police said.

"Los Angeles County Sheriff's Homicide detectives are responding to assist Monterey Park Police Department with a shooting death investigation," the department said in a brief statement.

"There are nine deceased.

"There is no additional information available at this time."

The department said the suspect was male, but it was not clear if he was still at large.

Sergeant Bob Boese said the shooting occurred at a business on Garvey Avenue in Monterey Park.

Officials provided no information for several hours after dozens of police officers had responded to reports of the shooting.

Footage posted on social media showed deserted, cordoned-off streets guarded by police cars.

"Our hearts go out to those who lost loved ones tonight in our neighbouring city, Monterey Park, where a mass shooting just occurred," Los Angeles City Controller Kenneth Mejia said in a tweet.

Seung Won Choi, who owns the Clam House seafood barbecue restaurant across the street from where the shooting happened, told the Los Angeles Times that three people rushed into his business and told him to lock the door.

The people also told Mr Choi that there was a shooter with a semi-automatic weapon who had multiple rounds of ammunition on him so he could reload.

He said he believes the shooting took place at a dance club.

Tens of thousands of people had attended the festival earlier in the day.

Monterey Park is a city of about 60,000 people with a large Asian population around 16 kilometres from downtown Los Angeles.

And another one. Not even news at this point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on January 22, 2023, 08:04:38 AM
It's all over the news here. But yeah, yet another one for the year and we're not even clear of January yet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on January 22, 2023, 08:20:56 AM
The price of guns for all in the uniquely American culture

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on January 22, 2023, 08:59:06 AM
Now that is chilling. Mass Shootings, a steady rate of 600+ per year. I'm sure we're well on-track in 2023.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 22, 2023, 09:25:12 AM
How does usa compare to brazil?

Brazil looks to be 20/100,000 and usa is 15/100,000

Doesnt braizl have even more lax gun laws than usa?

Or is it poverty?

Can we name another country with guns per capita and poveryy rate for comparison?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on January 23, 2023, 07:53:48 PM
You're safe now America. He's dead.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-24/californian-man-hailed-hero-seizing-gun-from-shooting-suspect/101885532

Quote
The suspect, 72-year-old Huu Can Tran, was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound on Sunday in the van that authorities say he used to flee after being prevented from attacking another dance hall.

About 20 minutes after the first attack, Tran entered the Lai Lai Ballroom in the nearby city of Alhambra.

Brandon Tsay was in the lobby at the time, and he told Good Morning America that he thought he was going to die.

Once Mr Tsay seized the gun, he pointed it at the man and shouted: "Get the hell out of here, I'll shoot, get away, go!"

The assailant paused, but then headed back to his van and Mr Tsay called the police, the gun still in his hand.

Police say Tran had earlier killed 10 people and injured others at the Monterey Park dance club, where acquaintances have said he was a regular.

The Los Angeles County Department of Health Services said on Monday that another victim treated in hospital had died of gunshot wounds.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/seven-dead-in-two-shootings-in-california-agricultural-region-suspect-arrested/news-story/b12b0a19afefd6709cd4ba4465c8c2c0

Quote
Seven people have been killed and one critically injured in another suspected mass shooting in California, just days after 11 people were killed at a Lunar New Year event in Los Angeles.

According to reports, seven victims were fatally shot at a farm and another business in California’s Half Moon Bay on Monday local time (Tuesday AEDT) — and a suspect described as a “disgruntled worker” later turned himself in to authorities.

The victims were killed in the shootings at Mountain Mushroom Farm and Rice Trucking-Soil Farm, a landscaping supply company, in the small city along the Golden State’s coast about 50km south of San Francisco, NBC Bay Area reported.



Oh... :(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Smoke Machine on January 23, 2023, 08:10:49 PM
You're safe now America. He's dead.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-24/californian-man-hailed-hero-seizing-gun-from-shooting-suspect/101885532

Quote
The suspect, 72-year-old Huu Can Tran, was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound on Sunday in the van that authorities say he used to flee after being prevented from attacking another dance hall.

About 20 minutes after the first attack, Tran entered the Lai Lai Ballroom in the nearby city of Alhambra.

Brandon Tsay was in the lobby at the time, and he told Good Morning America that he thought he was going to die.

Once Mr Tsay seized the gun, he pointed it at the man and shouted: "Get the hell out of here, I'll shoot, get away, go!"

The assailant paused, but then headed back to his van and Mr Tsay called the police, the gun still in his hand.

Police say Tran had earlier killed 10 people and injured others at the Monterey Park dance club, where acquaintances have said he was a regular.

The Los Angeles County Department of Health Services said on Monday that another victim treated in hospital had died of gunshot wounds.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/seven-dead-in-two-shootings-in-california-agricultural-region-suspect-arrested/news-story/b12b0a19afefd6709cd4ba4465c8c2c0

Quote
Seven people have been killed and one critically injured in another suspected mass shooting in California, just days after 11 people were killed at a Lunar New Year event in Los Angeles.

According to reports, seven victims were fatally shot at a farm and another business in California’s Half Moon Bay on Monday local time (Tuesday AEDT) — and a suspect described as a “disgruntled worker” later turned himself in to authorities.

The victims were killed in the shootings at Mountain Mushroom Farm and Rice Trucking-Soil Farm, a landscaping supply company, in the small city along the Golden State’s coast about 50km south of San Francisco, NBC Bay Area reported.



Oh... :(

It's refreshing to read a hero story, and Mr. Tsay is a hero. Who knows how many countless lives he saved by his brave actions. There's not too many mass shootings that end like this.

It's not refreshing to read that in the land of the free, anybody is still free to carry out a mass shooting whenever they feel like it. It's sickening.

Maybe America should put those statistics in their tourism ads, if they don't think they have a gun problem.....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 23, 2023, 10:20:07 PM
There was a 2nd shooter

Apprehended by police.

Cpincidence two old asian guys?

Maybe we get a motive.
A death pact.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on January 24, 2023, 12:28:05 AM



Isn't it time America?

This changed the gun culture here, people were happy handing in their guns in the hope that no more of our kids would die, are you better off, safer for your guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on January 26, 2023, 03:44:15 AM

Come on. Where are all the gun nuts?

Apparently the six year old who shot his teacher in Redneck elementary Virginia was seen with the gun and reported to the administrators who did nothing, the lawyer for the injured teacher said,
"On that day, over the course of a few hours, three different times - three times - school administration was warned by concerned teachers and employees that the boy had a gun on him at school and was threatening people,"

If you live in a society that on hearing that a 6yr old in your school is waving a gun about, a child moreover that is usually accompanied by a parent because of behavioural “problems” and you don’t feel the need to address that with a certain amount of immediacy, then I would suggest that you live in a culture that is willing to ignore the signals of the sickness of your nation through either indifference, fear or stupidity in the forlorn hope that it will sort itself out.

Even the fact that at least three times a member of the school saw a gun in a child’s hand and did nothing other than report it, is a massive problem and shows a level of ingrained complacency that is staggering.
How come he wasn’t body slammed, tasered, gang swamped, pepper-sprayed or brought down in a hail of gunfire by those who saw him? Rather than “Cletus is packing.”…… “Yeah? No shit.” 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on January 26, 2023, 08:59:57 AM
Woooooooow

Not-my-problem and incompetence at the highest level!

She can retire after the lawsuit for employer safety neglience
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on January 26, 2023, 10:29:00 AM
How come he wasn’t body slammed, tasered, gang swamped, pepper-sprayed or brought down in a hail of gunfire by those who saw him? Rather than “Cletus is packing.”…… “Yeah? No shit.”

Kid wasn't black.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on March 03, 2023, 07:24:36 PM
This is kinda fun, Jon Stewart eviscerating a State Senator from Oklahoma, Nathan Dahm, on gun control. Apparently the Senator has put forth some hyper pro-2nd Amendment bills to remove gun registration requirements and enact the nations first anti-Red Flag law (insane). Essentially, with 400 millions guns already in the hands of Americans his stance is that more guns make us safer and that everything rests on "...shall not be infringed..."

Worth the 8 minute run time to see Stewart in his old form...



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 03, 2023, 11:16:03 PM
This is kinda fun, Jon Stewart eviscerating a State Senator from Oklahoma, Nathan Dahm, on gun control. Apparently the Senator has put forth some hyper pro-2nd Amendment bills to remove gun registration requirements and enact the nations first anti-Red Flag law (insane). Essentially, with 400 millions guns already in the hands of Americans his stance is that more guns make us safer and that everything rests on "...shall not be infringed..."

Worth the 8 minute run time to see Stewart in his old form...



Its neat to see the senator do the metal gymnastics to justify his view.

Tho John brings up an inintentional point...
The 2nd Amendment is the onky right with "shall not be infringed".  Not voting.  Not speech.  Even the outlaw of slavery doesn't have that.
What does that say about America?  Where owning guns is the most important thing?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on March 04, 2023, 12:41:36 AM
This is kinda fun, Jon Stewart eviscerating a State Senator from Oklahoma, Nathan Dahm, on gun control. Apparently the Senator has put forth some hyper pro-2nd Amendment bills to remove gun registration requirements and enact the nations first anti-Red Flag law (insane). Essentially, with 400 millions guns already in the hands of Americans his stance is that more guns make us safer and that everything rests on "...shall not be infringed..."

Worth the 8 minute run time to see Stewart in his old form...



Its neat to see the senator do the metal gymnastics to justify his view.

Tho John brings up an inintentional point...
The 2nd Amendment is the onky right with "shall not be infringed".  Not voting.  Not speech.  Even the outlaw of slavery doesn't have that.
What does that say about America?  Where owning guns is the most important thing?

To your point, "...shall not be infringed..." means that all else in the constitution lacking that phrase are rendered as sort of "suggestions", not hard and fast rights. Insanity. And I love the bell curve argument: If more guns is the solution, when do we reach enough? A billion guns? Given another stat I read that no country in the world has ever had more than 18 mass shootings in a year (as defined by the FBI as 4 deaths, not including the shooter.) The US has had, as of mid-February 2023, 71...

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 04, 2023, 08:13:40 AM
While reasonable people said "goodforyou jon"

What the wackos saw was "this oklahoma guy will protect our right access no matter what.   So we better keep him in power"

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 04, 2023, 08:15:34 AM
As a sentence.

What shall not be i fringed?

The right or the arms?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 04, 2023, 08:18:42 AM
This is kinda fun, Jon Stewart eviscerating a State Senator from Oklahoma, Nathan Dahm, on gun control. Apparently the Senator has put forth some hyper pro-2nd Amendment bills to remove gun registration requirements and enact the nations first anti-Red Flag law (insane). Essentially, with 400 millions guns already in the hands of Americans his stance is that more guns make us safer and that everything rests on "...shall not be infringed..."

Worth the 8 minute run time to see Stewart in his old form...



Its neat to see the senator do the metal gymnastics to justify his view.

Tho John brings up an inintentional point...
The 2nd Amendment is the onky right with "shall not be infringed".  Not voting.  Not speech.  Even the outlaw of slavery doesn't have that.
What does that say about America?  Where owning guns is the most important thing?


The irony is the 2ndA only protects the 2ndA.
4th 8th 14th be damned.

But ask anyone of these people and they say protection from tyrannical govt.

Follow up with 'so you support BLM?'

Then you award thema gymnastic gold medal for triple flip in pike position with a fuked up landing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 06, 2023, 11:15:32 AM
This is kinda fun, Jon Stewart eviscerating a State Senator from Oklahoma, Nathan Dahm, on gun control. Apparently the Senator has put forth some hyper pro-2nd Amendment bills to remove gun registration requirements and enact the nations first anti-Red Flag law (insane). Essentially, with 400 millions guns already in the hands of Americans his stance is that more guns make us safer and that everything rests on "...shall not be infringed..."

Worth the 8 minute run time to see Stewart in his old form...



Wow I haven't seen an asskicking like that since he got Crossfire cancelled.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 27, 2023, 09:49:06 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/27/nashville-shooting-covenant-school/

Another day another school shooting in America.

The twist, if you're on the right, this was a private Christian school.  I don't suppose they'll finally stop blaming school shootings on the lack of prayer.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on March 27, 2023, 10:18:06 AM
There have been 12 school shootings this year that resulted in injuries or deaths. There have been 156 such shootings since 2018. There were 51 school shootings with injuries or deaths last year, the most in a single year since Education Week began tracking such incidents in 2018. There were 35 in 2021, 10 in 2020, and 24 each in 2019 and 2018.

2023 (Not including today)
(https://i.imgur.com/d8sLgyT.png)

(https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-25-at-2.32.23-PM.png?w=1104&h=620&crop=1)

(https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/Mass_Shootings_2023_v03_dnl_1676395492070_hpEmbed_1x1_992.jpg)

Nothing to see here in 'Merica...

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 27, 2023, 10:28:14 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/27/nashville-shooting-covenant-school/

Another day another school shooting in America.

The twist, if you're on the right, this was a private Christian school.  I don't suppose they'll finally stop blaming school shootings on the lack of prayer.
Well... God just wanted them home because he loved how they prayed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 27, 2023, 12:37:29 PM
The other twist is that the shooter was a teenage girl.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 27, 2023, 12:47:47 PM
You go girl!  Way to break the glass ceiling!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 27, 2023, 02:51:47 PM
Oops, take that back. The shooter was a 28 yr old female, who I think identified as a man. He/him pronouns in the bio.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 27, 2023, 05:58:23 PM
Yep there it is on Fox News.  Mystery solved.  Transgenderism kills.  No need to regulate guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 27, 2023, 06:20:43 PM
Tucker called it last week

Said trannies woth guns was a menace


Hes such a pos.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on March 27, 2023, 06:34:31 PM
The Tennessee legislature has been hard at work drafting bills to protect the child this year. They have banned drag shows and also made it so 18 years olds have constitutional concealed carry on any guns. It's great work like this that will surely save the lives of children this time.

In all seriousness, this is in my backyard. I'm a short drive from Nashville. The governor and legislature will do nothing in response to this, or they will do worse than nothing and ensure there are more guns in schools by mandating teachers be armed. It's long past time for something to be done about this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 27, 2023, 06:39:53 PM
Oh I'm sure they'll go a step further and completely ban anything remotely transgender in response to this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 28, 2023, 07:44:13 AM
I do not get why anyone wants drag queens to read to kids, or twerk for kids, or perform weird acts dressed in bondage gear for toddlers. It's really not a left vs right thing, but the media makes it out to be. There are plenty of people on the left who think it is bad, including a lot of LGBT people.

Back to the shooting!

I agree that the state of Tennessee (really nearly any state) will do nothing about the gun issue. I don't know what to say about guns. Pro guns politicians and pundits won't budge, but I think there are a lot of people who are gun owners who think they need proper regulation. I don't know if politicians are willing to give up this football game. It's something that works well to rile up their bases (the only people who show up to vote in primaries). They're gonna take our guns, vote for me! We've gotta do something about the guns, vote for me! The guns are never taken, and they never do anything about the guns.

Another aspect of all this is that we go back and forth discussing mental illness. I see people who think we shouldn't blame it on mental illness, because that's like giving the murderers an excuse, or something. IDK. Anyway, I was thinking about the long modern history of mass shootings, from the École Polytechnique massacre in 1989, Columbine in 1999, to this shooting and wondering what they have in common. I don't remember the political climate back then, and internet "radicalization" wasn't a thing in 1989. They never determined the motive for the Columbine massacre.  In 1989 was there a lot of feminazi talk from the pundits? I think so! At least from Rush Limbaugh. Right now there's a lot of "trans genocide" talk from the media, the LGBTQ orgs, etc. Trans Day of Vengeance was planned for April 1st (idk if that will be cancelled, their twitter act is locked).  I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that some people are vulnerable to this sort of rhetoric. That it can take over their thinking, make them feel they should become martyrs. Like Elliot Rodger binging on the manosphere, writing up a manifesto, and then shooting people.

I fear shootings are only going to become more frequent with the absolute absurd amount of guns and the absurd amount of polarization. This is an obviously deadly combination. I think there's a lot of hopelessness out there. When people lose hope, they sometimes turn to violence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 28, 2023, 08:49:14 AM
I haven't read her manifesto. Not out of any kind of moral stance or anything. It's just that manifestos are like dreams, if it takes more than 30 seconds to describe it gets incredibly boring. I think the media feels the same because they're not posting any summaries of this manifesto.

The Australia solution is looking pretty good to me about now. Obviously that's not going to happen because... Freedom I guess. But I would like to see them do something. Armed guards at schools? Fine, do that. Free mental healthcare? Sounds great, do that.  Free body armor for all students? Alright, do that then.

I am confident that absolutely nothing will be done. I don't know why gun nuts haven't figured this out yet. AR-15 sales will likely go through the roof again out of fear they'll be banned.

It's going to be a dark time for trans people. These gun nuts are always desperate to find anything they can blame for gun violence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Stash on March 28, 2023, 08:56:18 AM
Gallup, November 2022…Bizarre drop in gun law support…I wonder what the poll would show today...

url=https://news.gallup.com/poll/405260/diminished-majority-supports-stricter-gun-laws.aspx]Diminished Majority Supports Stricter Gun Laws In U.S.[[/url]

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    • 57% of Americans want stricter U.S. gun laws, down from 66% in June
    • 86% of Democrats, 60% of independents, 27% of Republicans want stricter laws
    • Stable 46% of U.S. adults say there is a gun in their household

(https://i.imgur.com/a3BIOnk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CIQaWZj.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 28, 2023, 09:16:09 AM
I do not get why anyone wants drag queens to read to kids, or twerk for kids, or perform weird acts dressed in bondage gear for toddlers. It's really not a left vs right thing, but the media makes it out to be. There are plenty of people on the left who think it is bad, including a lot of LGBT people.

Back to the shooting!

I agree that the state of Tennessee (really nearly any state) will do nothing about the gun issue. I don't know what to say about guns. Pro guns politicians and pundits won't budge, but I think there are a lot of people who are gun owners who think they need proper regulation. I don't know if politicians are willing to give up this football game. It's something that works well to rile up their bases (the only people who show up to vote in primaries). They're gonna take our guns, vote for me! We've gotta do something about the guns, vote for me! The guns are never taken, and they never do anything about the guns.

Another aspect of all this is that we go back and forth discussing mental illness. I see people who think we shouldn't blame it on mental illness, because that's like giving the murderers an excuse, or something. IDK. Anyway, I was thinking about the long modern history of mass shootings, from the École Polytechnique massacre in 1989, Columbine in 1999, to this shooting and wondering what they have in common. I don't remember the political climate back then, and internet "radicalization" wasn't a thing in 1989. They never determined the motive for the Columbine massacre.  In 1989 was there a lot of feminazi talk from the pundits? I think so! At least from Rush Limbaugh. Right now there's a lot of "trans genocide" talk from the media, the LGBTQ orgs, etc. Trans Day of Vengeance was planned for April 1st (idk if that will be cancelled, their twitter act is locked).  I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that some people are vulnerable to this sort of rhetoric. That it can take over their thinking, make them feel they should become martyrs. Like Elliot Rodger binging on the manosphere, writing up a manifesto, and then shooting people.

I fear shootings are only going to become more frequent with the absolute absurd amount of guns and the absurd amount of polarization. This is an obviously deadly combination. I think there's a lot of hopelessness out there. When people lose hope, they sometimes turn to violence.

Wasn't columbine a classic "We're bullied and powerless so fuck them all."? 

I think its as simple as a snapping point.  Everyone has one.  Some just have a much lower one than others.


Either that or its some kind of mind control hypnosis created by Big Gun to keep people scared and buying guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 28, 2023, 10:54:36 AM
I don't think it is as simple as a "snapping point". If you go down the rabbit hole of internet trans activism, it is just as disturbing as the incel stuff. Except it is much more of a death cult. Suicide is discussed as if it is inevitable, they believe they are victims of genocide. They believe anyone who disagrees is a Nazi, and violence against Nazis is acceptable.


Bullying was talked about a lot after Columbine, but so were violent movies and video games. They were never sure why those guys attacked the school. It was all speculation.


They have not released the Nashville shooter's manifesto yet. I think it would be interesting to read.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on March 28, 2023, 01:27:46 PM
I do not get why anyone wants drag queens to read to kids, or twerk for kids, or perform weird acts dressed in bondage gear for toddlers. It's really not a left vs right thing, but the media makes it out to be. There are plenty of people on the left who think it is bad, including a lot of LGBT people.

Maybe just continuing the traditions of Pantomimes and Mumming, which have featured drag acts and young girls playing the male lead for hundreds of years?  They've always had some slightly raunchy humour to amuse the adults in the audience.  You have that over there, right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on March 28, 2023, 01:41:25 PM
I don't think it is as simple as a "snapping point". If you go down the rabbit hole of internet trans activism, it is just as disturbing as the incel stuff. Except it is much more of a death cult. Suicide is discussed as if it is inevitable, they believe they are victims of genocide. They believe anyone who disagrees is a Nazi, and violence against Nazis is acceptable.
Thats not shocking.  Plenty of crazy people, even amoung the relatively small trans community.
Fortunately, most aren't.  At least as far as I've seen from my dealings with trans folk.

Quote
Bullying was talked about a lot after Columbine, but so were violent movies and video games. They were never sure why those guys attacked the school. It was all speculation.
i was bullied around that time and prior.  Some even said I was part of the Trenchcoat Mafia.  Deapite never wearing a trenchcoat.
While the whole violent X was a thing (they played Doom in the 90s.) New stuff is alwahs attacked.  D&D was thought to promote satanism in the 80s.

But bullying makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.  I was at a point of thinking about suicide and of killing them all.  Because why should some asshole whose life revolves around making yours suck, keep breathing?  Make the world a better place.  Fuck them all.  Then go down in a blaze of history so they never forget your name.


And thats what happened.  They were immortalized.  They got their eternal reward.  They became someone.  And all it cost them, was a life they already thought was worthless.


(Also, drag story time is way bigger than I thought but still voluntary and has been around since 2015)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 28, 2023, 03:26:20 PM
I do not get why anyone wants drag queens to read to kids, or twerk for kids, or perform weird acts dressed in bondage gear for toddlers. It's really not a left vs right thing, but the media makes it out to be. There are plenty of people on the left who think it is bad, including a lot of LGBT people.

Maybe just continuing the traditions of Pantomimes and Mumming, which have featured drag acts and young girls playing the male lead for hundreds of years?  They've always had some slightly raunchy humour to amuse the adults in the audience.  You have that over there, right?

No, Panto is a Brit thing. This is something completely different. I was trying to find the video of it, but I'm not having any luck. Sorry for the Daily Mail link, but at least it has pictures https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11810305/Fury-Drag-act-BABIES-Semi-naked-man-thigh-high-boots-performs-bondage-routine.html  I don't think the infants are harmed by this, but it's not the same as a bit of raunchy humor to make the adults laugh. (this also happens to be somewhere over there in the UK, lol)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on March 28, 2023, 08:47:18 PM
You know, if these schools would just lock their bloody side doors!

Remember the side doors! Lock them!  ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on March 29, 2023, 12:31:50 AM

She shot the door to fuck and stepped through the remains, they need those sentry bots out of Aliens.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on March 29, 2023, 12:42:28 AM

Or, and bear with me here, gun control!

I know the majority of the US people here would go for it, but it doesn’t happen, why? Have you given up on sanity? Capitulated to the crazies, or think it gives your children character and a head start in the future war to be afraid of every shadow on the wall, every dropped book, to have survived the school experience?

We had one school shooting, thought no, that shouldn’t be happening, and now it doesn’t, but then again, we don’t have our elected representatives toting assault weapons on Xmas cards, what would Jesus have done?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 29, 2023, 01:27:16 AM
Good question.  Not sure exactly.  I think it's a healthy dose of cowardice on the part of the democrats.

I can picture a system where both sides work together for an incremental approach to minimize gun deaths while preserving a way to own them for legitimate purposes.  But the gun nuts have made that impossible so at this point I think the Australia solution might be a more realistic approach.

Just fucking ban them all already.  I'm sick of trying to explain to my kids why they have to be afraid for their lives because the stupidest among us like to pretend to be soldiers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: WISHTOLAUGH on March 29, 2023, 04:22:07 AM
Given your decided inability to explain anything, that's not surprising.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on March 29, 2023, 06:54:02 AM
Its Lackless!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 29, 2023, 07:20:23 AM

Or, and bear with me here, gun control!

I know the majority of the US people here would go for it, but it doesn’t happen, why? Have you given up on sanity? Capitulated to the crazies, or think it gives your children character and a head start in the future war to be afraid of every shadow on the wall, every dropped book, to have survived the school experience?

We had one school shooting, thought no, that shouldn’t be happening, and now it doesn’t, but then again, we don’t have our elected representatives toting assault weapons on Xmas cards, what would Jesus have done?

It's a game to the politicians. They don't really care how many people die, because they can't imagine it happening to them. Luxury belief.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on March 29, 2023, 11:23:46 AM
According to some new channels.
The shooter at the Christian school was a former student who was a 28 year old trans (female into a dude no way would I wanna see a dude with a stapled on dick).
I personally think Guns shouldn't be banned but it should be harder to get guns (because it would instead be punishing people like my stepdad who has 10+ guns/ghost guns legally and he has never commited a crime.)
You shouldn't be able to get a gun just by turning 18.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on March 29, 2023, 12:39:20 PM

Of course they shouldn't be banned, guns aren't banned here, but laws were enacted so that by and large they don't come into the hands of those that would cause injury to others and that there should be a reasonable motive for having them and they are securely kept locked away.

No other country slavishly keeps to laws that were enacted in 1791, if the UK had, we wouldn't have abolished slavery and prosecuted that around the world, Catholics wouldn't be able to go to Oxford or Cambridge and universal suffrage wouldn't be a thing.
It's all a massive con to get you to buy more stuff and distrust each other, grow up America at least for the sake of your kids.

We had this discussion after the Dunblane massacre and everybody including those who had handguns and rifles agreed that having them wasn't worth the danger they posed in the hands of someone who flipped, so we gave them up willingly for the sake of not having the kind of thing you get on an almost weekly basis, it's called maturity or sanity or common fucking sense.

The opposite of that is a country with more guns than people and the biggest cause of death in your children being private held implements of war.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Alexei on March 29, 2023, 12:43:36 PM
You already know Americans claim "it's a god given right and you can't take it away from me".
It's really helping the NRA (National Rifle Association) as they blame violent media (like video games which don't actually do anything to a person to make them lash out) instead of passing gun control laws as less people buying means less money for them.
It's all about money, not the lives of people in America.
They don't give a damn if you die. Even their own family members.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on April 03, 2023, 07:30:49 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nashville-shooting-teachers-armed-911-b2311461.html It looks like some staff were armed at the school, which somewhat negates the idea that armed school personnel is the solution. 
Americans haven't given up one wanting some common sense gun control as much as the strict constitutional literalists have convinced a large swathe of people that even giving a single inch on gun control will lead to guns being fully banned.  This argument sits well with rural populations, which makes up a large part of southern and midwestern states, which means a large number of representatives and senators are elected by them.  A republican senator agreeing to any form of gun control is essentially political suicide and ensures they will be primaried out in the next election.

I do have a thought on the 2nd amendment, which has been sitting on my mind the past few weeks though.  Everyone either focuses on the "well regulated" or the "shall not be infringed" statements of it, but what about the "being necessary to the security of a free State"?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
A militia, an impromptu army made up of citizens, is no longer the national security force since we have a freestanding army for national security.  With militias no longer being necessary for the security of a free State, would that negate the portion following it and mean the people do not have the right to bear arms?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 03, 2023, 08:08:09 AM
Yeah, liberals conceding defeat on the meaning of the second amendment really bothers me.  It's clearly intended to allow for national defense in the days when we didn't have a standing army.  Until recently this has repeated been affirmed in the SCOTUS.

Regulating guns the same way we regulate cars is completely compatible with Constitutional literalism.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 03, 2023, 08:20:30 AM
Yeah, liberals conceding defeat on the meaning of the second amendment really bothers me.  It's clearly intended to allow for national defense in the days when we didn't have a standing army.  Until recently this has repeated been affirmed in the SCOTUS.

Regulating guns the same way we regulate cars is completely compatible with Constitutional literalism.

The trust between your government and the people is almost non existent. People will just think regulation will be a slippery slope to outright ban
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 03, 2023, 10:07:17 AM
SCOTUS ROE overturn ruling:

We hold that roe and casey must be overruled.
The constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including the one on which the defenders of Roe and Casey now chiefly rely – the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment.
That provision has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the constitution, but any such right must be “deeply rooted in this nation’s history and tradition” and “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty”



reworded for guns:

We hold that [Heller] must be overruled.
The constitution makes no reference to [self defense] and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including the one on which the defenders of [Heller] chiefly rely – the [individuals right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a well regulated militia] of the [2nd]amendment.
That provision has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the constitution, but any such right must be “deeply rooted in this nation’s history and tradition” and “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty”





District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that the District of Columbia's handgun ban and requirement that lawfully owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee



2ndA full wording:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Show me self-defense?
Show me where your House = a free State.
Show me where Militia, a proper noun, as defined in section 8 clause 16, means an individual.
Show me nations history well documented that guns in public places were not permitted actually is not part of history.


Section 8:

The Congress shall have Power To…

Clause 16
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;



Federalist papers:

It's not tyranny we desire; it's a just, limited, federal government.
Alexander Hamilton




so
2ndA for self defense? = no, states rights.


2ndA for tyranny? = state mobilization against the fed.
colion noir is a POS and no, the individual is not the militia.
and today's standard, the State Guard is the army that would stand against the Fed.
so it's nonsense that the Fed would hold as law against Stat's rights as per 'self defense'.


slippery slope come for my guns? = well you can right it in a way that they can't come for existing users.
and if your complaint is that you can't sell it, well that's the piont - private sellers don't do background checks.
so anyoen complainiing about "hurting law abiding citzens" really means hurting gun sales and legal gun laundering.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 12, 2023, 12:29:26 AM
What a pos...

Skipto 9:41
Banks




Maybe it was a dem crisis actor?
Being on the Qs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/louisville-kentucky-shooting-1.6806037
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on April 12, 2023, 06:20:43 AM
I was wondering why they cut the rebuttal off, then realized it was a Fox broadcast and it all made sense.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on April 16, 2023, 02:37:32 AM
What a pos...

Skipto 9:41
Banks




Maybe it was a dem crisis actor?
Being on the Qs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/louisville-kentucky-shooting-1.6806037

Well it would terrible to penalize responsible gun owners.  So what are they saying over at the self proclaimed voice of responsible gun ownership?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/15/south-dakota-governor-kristi-noem-grandchild-guns-nra

OK, never mind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 16, 2023, 03:00:37 AM
What a pos...

Skipto 9:41
Banks




Maybe it was a dem crisis actor?
Being on the Qs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/louisville-kentucky-shooting-1.6806037

Well it would terrible to penalize responsible gun owners.  So what are they saying over at the self proclaimed voice of responsible gun ownership?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/15/south-dakota-governor-kristi-noem-grandchild-guns-nra

OK, never mind.

Kids,  not old enough to hold a gun, have a gun?
Thats either a big lie or someone is a very bad parent.

Like, I wouldn't give my 4 year old her own car right now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on April 16, 2023, 05:13:08 AM
What a pos...

Skipto 9:41
Banks




Maybe it was a dem crisis actor?
Being on the Qs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/louisville-kentucky-shooting-1.6806037

Well it would terrible to penalize responsible gun owners.  So what are they saying over at the self proclaimed voice of responsible gun ownership?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/15/south-dakota-governor-kristi-noem-grandchild-guns-nra

OK, never mind.

Kids,  not old enough to hold a gun, have a gun?
Thats either a big lie or someone is a very bad parent.

Like, I wouldn't give my 4 year old her own car right now.

Lying or not, it wasn’t some random tweet. She was addressing the NRA, along with the NRA CEO, who praised her state for setting the standard on the 2nd amendment.

I didn’t hear shocked gasps or cries of outrage from the audience either, just laughter.  Because this is absolutely the kind of shit they are into.  Get the kids hooked on the weird American gun fetishization early, so they cans sell more guns.  Make them fear they aren’t safe without guns so they sell more guns.  Make them paranoid about gun control so they will resist anything that could even slightly limit their ability to sell more guns.

All the 2nd amendment panic is bollocks.  The NRA is a lobby group.  It’s about money and how how they are prepared to poison the public’s minds for it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 16, 2023, 10:26:06 AM
Climate change isnt real!
- Big oil

Guns dont kill people, people kill people!
- Big gun

Heart problems are because of fat!
- Big sugar

Unions are bad!
- Big Corp

You need our covid shots!
- oh wait... this is the one thing repubs have been fighting for "freedom", strangely coincidental on a disease that kills the +65 demographic and in no way connected to "fiscal responsible" social security plan (yes, whcih for bonus evil points, also to give bankers access to a big bug fund of cash to play with)





https://images.app.goo.gl/2W1nmaZKRdvedBNA7
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 17, 2023, 02:35:26 PM
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170479923/ralph-yarl-kansas-city-teen-shooting

Not a mass shooting but definitely a racist one.

Quote
en Raphael was on the ground, he shot him again." Those details were repeated Sunday by Lee Merritt, a civil rights lawyer representing Yarl's family.

Like seriously... what kind of fucked up person do you have to be to go "Yeah, black teen at my door?  Politely ringing the bell?  Best shoot him.  Then shoot him again if he twitches on the ground."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 17, 2023, 02:50:53 PM
Americans being americans
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 17, 2023, 03:44:02 PM
In addition to the four victims killed, 28 others were injured, Burkett said.



Total 32 shot?


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/us/dadeville-alabama-birthday-party-shooting-monday/index.html




But dont worry
Gun experts will tell you an assault rifle is automatic.
And ar15s are semi.

Full
Semi
Super critical apparently when shooting unarmed group of people vs clearing a room of soldiers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on April 18, 2023, 01:46:03 AM
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170479923/ralph-yarl-kansas-city-teen-shooting

Not a mass shooting but definitely a racist one.

Quote
en Raphael was on the ground, he shot him again." Those details were repeated Sunday by Lee Merritt, a civil rights lawyer representing Yarl's family.

Like seriously... what kind of fucked up person do you have to be to go "Yeah, black teen at my door?  Politely ringing the bell?  Best shoot him.  Then shoot him again if he twitches on the ground."

Just don't get the wrong address because in any sane society that would be considered grounds for opening fire with lethal weaponry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65307556

I remember a few years back going to Ireland, getting the directions wrong in the fog which included that the isolated house we were to stay in had the key in the door, I found a house with the key in the door and went in and there was an old couple sitting having tea.

I said, “I’m terribly sorry, I was looking for (the address).”
They said, “No bother love, it’s the next one about a hundred yards up the road on the right.”

I thanked them, apologised again, put the key on the side and left.

What is wrong with Europe that we can’t drum up a shoot out of such a flagrant breach of protocol?

What fun it must be to live in one that can.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 18, 2023, 02:32:50 AM
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170479923/ralph-yarl-kansas-city-teen-shooting

Not a mass shooting but definitely a racist one.

Quote
en Raphael was on the ground, he shot him again." Those details were repeated Sunday by Lee Merritt, a civil rights lawyer representing Yarl's family.

Like seriously... what kind of fucked up person do you have to be to go "Yeah, black teen at my door?  Politely ringing the bell?  Best shoot him.  Then shoot him again if he twitches on the ground."

Just don't get the wrong address because in any sane society that would be considered grounds for opening fire with lethal weaponry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65307556

I remember a few years back going to Ireland, getting the directions wrong in the fog which included that the isolated house we were to stay in had the key in the door, I found a house with the key in the door and went in and there was an old couple sitting having tea.

I said, “I’m terribly sorry, I was looking for (the address).”
They said, “No bother love, it’s the next one about a hundred yards up the road on the right.”

I thanked them, apologised again, put the key on the side and left.

What is wrong with Europe that we can’t drum up a shoot out of such a flagrant breach of protocol?

What fun it must be to live in one that can.

I think you must have experienced what is called 'civilization'. A concept still foreign to America

As a kid wanting to earn pocket money I used to knock on almost every door in the suburb asking if they had any odd jobs to do. In America, knocking on a strangers door is rolling the dice with your life

Even going out for a jog can get you killed in America as some bored teenagers driving around in a car just shoot you in the back for fun as one unlucky Aussie found out a few years ago (well I guess he never found out, because he died)

To any American who may be the exception, rather than the rule - sorry, but your country is pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 18, 2023, 08:20:58 AM
Well yeah, if you focus on the guy that shot him for knocking on his door then it makes our country look insane. But you have to look at the big picture. Afterwards he went to three different houses to try to get someone to help him. Those people didn't shoot him.

I think it's just fair to point out that the takeaway here is that you only have a 25% chance of being shot for knocking on the wrong door.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 18, 2023, 08:33:29 AM
Well yeah, if you focus on the guy that shot him for knocking on his door then it makes our country look insane. But you have to look at the big picture. Afterwards he went to three different houses to try to get someone to help him. Those people didn't shoot him.

I think it's just fair to point out that the takeaway here is that you only have a 25% chance of being shot for knocking on the wrong door.

Why did it take 3 houses? I hope it's because no one was home

Because the decent thing a human would do is render assistance to someone who is dying and clearly needs it. Did the person who shot him even call the police? Even if he thought his actions were justified you would think once he 'neutralised the threat' that he would report the incident.

The depravity of yankees. Next level

On another note, the way you Americans name your streets is messed up. Sort it out.


Here is another fuck up

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65307556
Quote
A man has been charged with second-degree murder in the US after he allegedly shot and killed a 20-year-old woman as the car she was in mistakenly drove up the man's driveway.

Kaylin Gillis was with three other people in New York state on Saturday.

They accidentally drove into the driveway of Kevin Monahan in the town of Hebron, police say.

As the driver was leaving, Mr Monahan, 65, allegedly opened fire on the vehicle, hitting Ms Gillis.

"This is a very sad case of some young adults who were looking for a friend's house and ended up at this man's house who decided to come out with a firearm and discharge it," Washington Country Sheriff Jeffrey Murphy told a news conference.

The area is rural, and the driveways are poorly lit at night. None of the group had exited the vehicle or attempted to enter Mr Monahan's house before he allegedly opened fire, Mr Murphy said.

Pull into the wrong driveway? Shot dead

And as you know from vids I posted earlier about people spraying other cars with bullets through their own car in acts of road rage. You guys are animals. Running on primitive base instinct. That's probably putting it mildly

God bless America? I think he already damned it
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 19, 2023, 05:31:02 AM
In addition to the four victims killed, 28 others were injured, Burkett said.



Total 32 shot?


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/us/dadeville-alabama-birthday-party-shooting-monday/index.html




But dont worry
Gun experts will tell you an assault rifle is automatic.
And ar15s are semi.

Full
Semi
Super critical apparently when shooting unarmed group of people vs clearing a room of soldiers.


Update
Police say shell casings were not of high powered type


So there you go
Assault weapons and the 'semi civilian models' are EVEN more deadly than a nonassault handgun.


Good times
Good times
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 19, 2023, 02:05:01 PM
One black kid

One white girl

Two cheerleaders

Good stuff merica




Alsoalso
Some pretty shoddy grammar for a news article.
D'they hire my cousin to write for them?
Oooo self burn



https://nowthisnews.com/news/2-texas-cheerleaders-shot-in-heb-parking-lot?&utm_medium=social&utm_source=YouTube&utm_campaign=nowthisnews
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 19, 2023, 02:36:44 PM
Meanwhile in canada

There ve been about half adozen random stabbings

And on the chats my fellow canukuns wishing guns were easier to access "like america, jealous" so that they can defend themselves...
Riiiight...
Fucktards





We ve also had shootings
But they were gnagdrug targeted.


https://www.cp24.com/news/man-taken-to-hospital-suspect-arrested-after-daylight-stabbing-near-casa-loma-1.6362535
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on April 20, 2023, 12:54:08 AM
No seriously Americans, don’t mistakenly, ring the doorbell of the wrong house, drive up the wrong drive or blunder into the wrong car, especially if you look as dangerous and threatening as this.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4061/production/_129418461_payton.jpg.webp)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65330696

Two Texas cheerleaders shot after one gets into wrong car!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 20, 2023, 02:27:03 AM
I'd shoot too.
What if my wife saw her get into my car?  She'd think I was banging her. 
So I gotta bang bang her.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on April 20, 2023, 06:38:27 AM
No seriously Americans, don’t mistakenly, ring the doorbell of the wrong house, drive up the wrong drive or blunder into the wrong car, especially if you look as dangerous and threatening as this.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4061/production/_129418461_payton.jpg.webp)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65330696

Two Texas cheerleaders shot after one gets into wrong car!

So not even a moment of panic as she got in?  She’d already got back into her friend’s car and was trying to apologize.

FFS. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on April 20, 2023, 06:40:57 AM
Now you can't let your basketball enter the wrong yard either, https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article274498291.html, A 6-year old and her parents were shot by a neighbor after a basketball entered his yard.  The mother was grazed and daughter caught shrapnel, the dad is in critical condition in the hospital after shielding his daughter with his body.  This guy also apparently attacked his girlfriend with a mini sledgehammer in December and was held on $250k secured bond, he obviously posted bail.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Wolvaccine on April 20, 2023, 07:07:39 AM
The joys of the 2nd amendment in all its bastardised glory. Are you really better of and safer with all those guns?

The guns seem to turn you guys into primitive animals. If your first instinct is to shoot some guy you dont know ringing your doorbell or a lady who pulled into your driveway you didn't expect or a girl who entered the wrong car by mistake or a child whose ball went over your yard, you sure dont seem like you feel safe. You seem like you live in perpetual fear



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 20, 2023, 07:13:52 AM
The joys of the 2nd amendment in all its bastardised glory. Are you really better of and safer with all those guns?

The guns seem to turn you guys into primitive animals. If your first instinct is to shoot some guy you dont know ringing your doorbell or a lady who pulled into your driveway you didn't expect or a girl who entered the wrong car by mistake or a child whose ball went over your yard, you sure dont seem like you feel safe. You seem like you live in perpetual fear

They do.
Anyone, at anytime, can shoot and kill you because anyone can be armed.  Your political rivals want you dead and your way of life erased.
God only helps those who arm themselves.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 20, 2023, 08:08:34 AM
The joys of the 2nd amendment in all its bastardised glory. Are you really better of and safer with all those guns?

The guns seem to turn you guys into primitive animals. If your first instinct is to shoot some guy you dont know ringing your doorbell or a lady who pulled into your driveway you didn't expect or a girl who entered the wrong car by mistake or a child whose ball went over your yard, you sure dont seem like you feel safe. You seem like you live in perpetual fear

Well, yes. How the hell else are we supposed to defend ourselves from this epidemic of cheerleaders invading our cars?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 20, 2023, 08:40:57 AM
The joys of the 2nd amendment in all its bastardised glory. Are you really better of and safer with all those guns?

The guns seem to turn you guys into primitive animals. If your first instinct is to shoot some guy you dont know ringing your doorbell or a lady who pulled into your driveway you didn't expect or a girl who entered the wrong car by mistake or a child whose ball went over your yard, you sure dont seem like you feel safe. You seem like you live in perpetual fear

Well, yes. How the hell else are we supposed to defend ourselves from this epidemic of cheerleaders invading our cars?


By learning from Porn?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 20, 2023, 08:55:10 AM
I wouldn't want to risk getting #metoo'd.

The gun is a safer option.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 20, 2023, 11:14:50 AM
Are you suggesting the cheerleader should be raped instead?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 20, 2023, 11:35:10 AM
I'm suggesting it's easier to claim self defense or standing my ground via lethal force rather than self defense via rape.

If Kyle Rittenhouse ending up raping the guy that tried to take his gun rather than shooting him I think the trial might have gone a different way.

To be clear I'm joking obviously. Mrs. Crouton drives the most generic minivan possible and I've accidently gotten into the wrong minivan multiple times. We have bumper stickers on it just to tell it apart since in any normal size parking lot there's usually about a dozen minivans that look exactly the same as ours.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 20, 2023, 11:42:17 AM
No, not you. I should have quoted lorddave.

I regularly almost get into the wrong vehicle. I don't want to be shot or whatever it is lorddave has in mind!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 20, 2023, 01:12:05 PM
I'm suggesting it's easier to claim self defense or standing my ground via lethal force rather than self defense via rape.

If Kyle Rittenhouse ending up raping the guy that tried to take his gun rather than shooting him I think the trial might have gone a different way.

To be clear I'm joking obviously. Mrs. Crouton drives the most generic minivan possible and I've accidently gotten into the wrong minivan multiple times. We have bumper stickers on it just to tell it apart since in any normal size parking lot there's usually about a dozen minivans that look exactly the same as ours.






https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-tuesday-edition-1.4740605/ontario-woman-accidentally-steals-car-for-2-weeks-mistaking-it-for-a-rental-1.4740610


Ontario woman accidentally steals car for 2 weeks, mistaking it for a rental

After renting the car, MacKay said the woman drove three or four minutes to the local Walmart where she did some grocery shopping.

"Shortly thereafter she exited, walked over to the area where she had parked her vehicle, saw a shiny black vehicle, hopped in it and drove away," he said.









and a really old movie i vaguely remember watching when i was little

skip to 11:18 then skip to 16:40



https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092027/?ref_=ttpl_ov_i


Two identical cars pull up to a restaurant, one belonging to a childless couple who are taking care of their niece and nephew while their parents are away, who are out on a Sunday drive. The other belonging to a guy who is on his way to meet his fiance and to begin working for her father. In his car is his dog, whom the couple mistake for the children, when they get i... Read all




ohoo
young carrie fisher
skip to 10:17 getting blasted in the face
and "shower scene" 12:43
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 21, 2023, 12:10:37 AM
Are you suggesting the cheerleader should be raped instead?

No.
I was being very tongue in cheek.  Since a cheerleader getting into a stranger's car is one of the many trope setups for porn.  And usually ends up being consentual sex.


The real reaction someone should have is:
1. Confusion.
2. Ask who they are and why they're in your car.
3. React appropriately to the reply.
If the reply is 'I'm gonna kill you unless you drive', you drive.
If its 'oh shit, wrong car' then wish them a good day and talk about it later as a funny story.


In no world should you get out of your car, walk up to theirs after the mistake, and try to kill them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on April 21, 2023, 02:10:45 AM
People keep saying it's the guns..  I'm changing my mind,  I don't think it's just the guns, I think it's just that in America people are afraid, and they have access to guns.

It's just fear.  When armed people are afraid, they do stupid things.

Anybody got a better theory?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 21, 2023, 02:31:21 AM
People keep saying it's the guns..  I'm changing my mind,  I don't think it's just the guns, I think it's just that in America people are afraid, and they have access to guns.

It's just fear.  When armed people are afraid, they do stupid things.

Anybody got a better theory?
That doesn't explain why the dude went to the cheerleader's car and shot her.  If it was fear, the danger passed.

Personally, I think they're programmed to hate and just love an excuse to exercize that hate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on April 21, 2023, 03:08:28 AM

It’s media generated fear and anger, the NRA led outrage about “my rights” shackled to the message that the minute you sign legislation to stop one mentally ill person buying an arsenal, your house will be swamped by drug crazed communist zombie rapists drawn here by the promise of Medicaid, all to keep profits buoyant and the populace afraid of each other, patrolling their perimeter instead of calling the government to task for the appalling state of the nation, but instead blaming “THEM”.

All our governments that are in chattel to corporations, do this. America is demonstrably the worst as they have allowed unchecked lobbyist to fund both sides to the extent where politicians of both persuasions are paid to not listen to those that vote for them and therefore must keep them in a state of anxiety.

If you check independent (if you can find them) polling from both republicans and democrats on gun control and health reform, you can see this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 21, 2023, 05:02:05 AM
People keep saying it's the guns..  I'm changing my mind,  I don't think it's just the guns, I think it's just that in America people are afraid, and they have access to guns.

It's just fear.  When armed people are afraid, they do stupid things.

Anybody got a better theory?



Msm agrees







Fear porn culture









Not just fear
Its also
Spvereing citizenry
Its no fauci ouchy or you meet my gun.
Its no irs or tou meet my gun
Its selfdefnese shootfirst advertising and congress nonsense will protect your 2ndA speeches (they wont and dont).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Unconvinced on April 23, 2023, 12:19:14 PM
People keep saying it's the guns..  I'm changing my mind,  I don't think it's just the guns, I think it's just that in America people are afraid, and they have access to guns.

It's just fear.  When armed people are afraid, they do stupid things.

Anybody got a better theory?



Msm agrees







Fear porn culture









Not just fear
Its also
Spvereing citizenry
Its no fauci ouchy or you meet my gun.
Its no irs or tou meet my gun
Its selfdefnese shootfirst advertising and congress nonsense will protect your 2ndA speeches (they wont and dont).

Interesting video, thanks.  Didn’t watch it all, so I’ll probably finish later.

Grandson of the man who shot the kid through his door seems to concur.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article274517706.html

It’s not just the guns, but the gun lobby is feeding the same paranoia.  Culture war, plus batshit conspiracy theories, plus guns is a very dangerous combination.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 28, 2023, 07:07:02 AM
https://twitter.com/GovBillLee/status/1651757045551452161?s=20

Quote
The Covenant shooting was a tragedy beyond comprehension, & Tennesseans need clarity.

We’ve been in touch with the Nashville Police Department, & today, Chief Drake assured me that documents & information regarding the shooter will be released to the public very soon.

SOON.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 28, 2023, 07:50:05 AM
soon what?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 28, 2023, 07:54:04 AM
The manifesto will be released.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Rayzor on April 29, 2023, 03:06:06 AM
The manifesto will be released.

Why is that important?   I would prefer that psycho mass murderers don't get publicity for their "manifesto's"

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 29, 2023, 05:44:29 AM
The manifesto will be released.


Whats the hold up?
Anytime a police cam for black killing happens its either quickqcuik when hes a pos or "we have to rrview and get all the facts. We gotta figure things out".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 29, 2023, 05:46:34 AM
The manifesto will be released.

Why is that important?   I would prefer that psycho mass murderers don't get publicity for their "manifesto's"


I agree

But they can release to fbi or someone  and then publicly state a highly condensed summary that this pos did this because of xyz beliefs and because of abc influence.
He has yyz access to guns and was this type of person warning signs.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 29, 2023, 05:49:06 AM
The FBI already have it. If they release a "highly condensed" version, no one will believe they're getting the truth. They are playing identity politics with this one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 29, 2023, 07:45:21 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/04/29/cleveland-texas-gunman-kills-five-8-year-old/

I wonder if the nra is going to defend this as a variant of a stand your ground situation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 29, 2023, 11:36:28 AM
Has Anerica always been this bad with people randomly mrudering anyone who enters their properyt?  Or is this a new drug in the water?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 29, 2023, 11:58:58 AM
Oh my god, that is fucking horrible.

I don't think Americans have always been this bad. There have always been violent people, but it does seem like something is breaking right now (right now = the past 10yrs or so).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 29, 2023, 12:08:53 PM
Heller 2008
About 15ys.
Assault rifle moratorim 2005



See something say something 911 neighborly paranoiao and anxiety.
And the 1000s of ptsd soldiers returned wih no support or jobs


2010ish rise of social media and the echochamber misibformation machine leading to ironic social isolation.



Opioids
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 29, 2023, 02:51:09 PM
I read the article.  Apparently in this particular neighborhood people shoot their guns all the time.  They were slow to react to this because there's normally so much gunshots that they just assumed it was normal. 

It's unclear to me if it's even legal to be shooting a gun in city limits.  Usually I don't think it is.

I assume Texas will respond appropriately by banning drag queens and abortions.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 29, 2023, 03:14:21 PM
It's a small town, so it probably isn't illegal to shoot a gun in your front yard. It's not illegal where I live, either.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on April 29, 2023, 06:21:14 PM


Sovereign citizens at it again
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 30, 2023, 01:51:13 AM
It's a small town, so it probably isn't illegal to shoot a gun in your front yard. It's not illegal where I live, either.

Must have alot of space or no neighbors in front, otherwise thats very dangerous.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JJA on April 30, 2023, 03:01:40 AM
People have been killed because some dumbass shot off a gun from his back yard.

But gun lovers need their guns.

It's rather ironic that the right wing constantly complains about liberal identity politics, yet are the ones who build their entire identities around guns and panic at the thought they might not be able to run around shooting them off like idiots.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 30, 2023, 03:35:26 AM
That's because Guns = Freedom.
If you have guns, you are free.  Its simple logic.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on April 30, 2023, 06:04:12 AM
It's a small town, so it probably isn't illegal to shoot a gun in your front yard. It's not illegal where I live, either.

Must have alot of space or no neighbors in front, otherwise thats very dangerous.

It's definitely very dangerous. I don't know what their neighborhood looks like, but mine most houses are on at least 2 acres, then a pasture, then another cluster of houses. Most of the houses aren't up close to each other like in a suburb. But, it's still dangerous. If you shoot a gun up into the air it can come down and kill someone. If you shoot it straight up, it will come back down close, but at an angle, obv it will come down in the neighbor's yard.

I have one neighbor who sometimes shoots a gun at night. Fortunately it is not very often, but even out here in BFE it is still disturbing to hear a bunch of gunshots at 11pm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on April 30, 2023, 08:26:04 AM
I looked into it a little.  In Cleveland Texas it is illegal to shoot a firearm in city limits.  But maybe they were on the outskirts of the city and not actually in it.

Either way this is another one of those situations where what should be a red flag is clear.  Anyone being that obnoxious with a gun shouldn't be allowed to possess one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on April 30, 2023, 09:17:29 AM
Another question is: where was the victim's guns?  Why didn't they kill their neighbor first? 

Or is the whole thing about good guys with guns a blatant lie from the NRA?  I'm just asking queations.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 07, 2023, 07:04:06 AM
And another mass shooting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/texas-mall-shooting-live-updates-rcna83240

Quote
What you need to know about Allen, Texas, mall shooting

A total of nine people, including the shooter, were killed Saturday night at a Dallas-area outlet mall.

The shooter was "neutralized" by a city police officer who was at the mall for an unrelated matter, police said.
   
Officials have not released the names of the shooter or any of the victims.

I don't know how we can go on with this shit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 07, 2023, 07:59:24 AM
It will keep happening with increasing frequency and intensity for the foreseeable future.  The state government of Texas has already released a statement where they pledge to do absolutely nothing while shutting down any possible measures to do something about this.

Also they added in thoughts and prayers.

I would think that the people of Texas would be outraged by this failure to manage any of this but I think in their minds they're starting to view these victims as human sacrifices to their religion of the Second Amendment.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 07, 2023, 08:01:57 AM
It will keep happening with increasing frequency and intensity for the foreseeable future.  The state government of Texas has already released a statement where they pledge to do absolutely nothing while shutting down any possible measures to do something about this.

Also they added in thoughts and prayers.

I would think that the people of Texas would be outraged by this failure to manage any of this but I think in their minds they're starting to view these victims as human sacrifices to their religion of the Second Amendment.

Starting to?

Or...
They're thinking 'Man, if only I was there with my Gun.  I'd have stopped it.  Hahaha .. bam bam!  Here's my thouhts and prayers asshole.'
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 07, 2023, 08:31:20 AM
I have a friend that's very big into guns.  We had a conversation about gun control after the Uvalde massacre.  I said I'm worried about the safety of my children when they're going to school.  His suggestion was teaching them how to gunfight.

Do the gun nuts think that they can shoot incoming bullets out of the air?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on May 07, 2023, 11:31:56 AM
I have a friend that's very big into guns.  We had a conversation about gun control after the Uvalde massacre.  I said I'm worried about the safety of my children when they're going to school.  His suggestion was teaching them how to gunfight.

Do the gun nuts think that they can shoot incoming bullets out of the air?

No.  The thinking is that a 10 year old, when armed with a gun, will not be as scared as a trained police officer adult when being shot at.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jeembo on May 08, 2023, 05:03:54 AM
I have a friend that's very big into guns.  We had a conversation about gun control after the Uvalde massacre.  I said I'm worried about the safety of my children when they're going to school.  His suggestion was teaching them how to gunfight.

Do the gun nuts think that they can shoot incoming bullets out of the air?
Did he tell you to teach 'em to shoot and actually to carry a gun with them into the school or what? It makes sense to teach kids how to behave and what to do if, god forbid, something like that happens but for a kid to actually stop the attacker? That's some wild advice if you ask me
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 08, 2023, 06:37:54 AM
I have a friend that's very big into guns.  We had a conversation about gun control after the Uvalde massacre.  I said I'm worried about the safety of my children when they're going to school.  His suggestion was teaching them how to gunfight.

Do the gun nuts think that they can shoot incoming bullets out of the air?
Did he tell you to teach 'em to shoot and actually to carry a gun with them into the school or what? It makes sense to teach kids how to behave and what to do if, god forbid, something like that happens but for a kid to actually stop the attacker? That's some wild advice if you ask me

I didn't discuss the details too much with him.  This was a few weeks after Uvalde and my resting level of rage was still pretty high.  He was sincerely offering a suggestion that he thought would help.  2A propaganda has really scrambled a lot of people's brains.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 08, 2023, 06:58:48 AM
I tried to walk a few people through it.
Like step by step scenario.
I ask about vests.
Do you just shoot people you think are bad?
What happens of theres two 'good guys'?   - and when i bring up rittenhouse they loose their minds.



And as always they defeat me, with nothing but their witts and their series 7 de atomizers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 08, 2023, 07:22:21 AM
I've thought about that too.  I don't know if there's any training that eliminates the possibility of a good guy with a gun shooting another good guy with a gun.  I get the feeling that it's nearly impossible to avoid
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 08, 2023, 10:04:22 AM
i had it out wiht one guy
his brain short circuit really bad

he said Grosskreutz was illegally carrying.

i said that doesn't matter what was his intention - to stop a percieved bad guy.

but the other guy was so thickskulled
he either knew the answer would trap him or he just couldn't comprehend from the POV at the time Grosskreutz thoguht he was doing the right thing and stopping a shooter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 08, 2023, 01:17:35 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/allen-texas-mall-shooting-gunman-monday/index.html

Quote
The gunman behind the second-deadliest US mass shooting of the year was terminated from the Army due to health concerns and may have been driven by right-wing extremism, sources told CNN.


CNN quick to post speculation when it fits the narrative.

(not saying this guy isn't a right wing extremist, more a comment on CNN)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 08, 2023, 01:49:48 PM



skipto 5:39 and 6:40

NBC
- RWDS
- neonazi and WS rehtoric


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 08, 2023, 03:13:53 PM
It's interesting what he says about mental health in Texas.  I'm having trouble finding exactly what they've done. 

Apparently Texas is ranked last in mental healthcare for children.

I've found a 15 million dollar bill.  https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04/13/texas-senate-mental-health-children/

This is some genius tier solutions.  Just train all students to be combat medics.  Hell why don't they just rotate kids through the front lines in Ukraine?  While they're at it why not require plate carriers in the school dress code?
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-bill-proposes-bleeding-stations-in-schools-therapist-warns-of-mental-health-impacts

I can't find any source besides the governor which says they've increased mental health funding by 25 billion.  As far as I can tell they're going to need to more than double the amount they spend now to be mediocre in mental health care.  https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/states-who-spend-the-most-on-mental-health-funding.html

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on May 09, 2023, 01:16:39 AM

“During the attack, the rifle-wielding attacker wore an insignia which has been associated with hate groups, as well as combat tactical gear. He was seen on video with a clothing patch with the letters RWDS, which stands for "Right Wing Death Squad".

This is a phrase popular among right-wing extremists and white supremacy groups.

An account run by the suspect on a Russia-based social network seen by BBC News includes pictures of Nazi swastikas and SS tattoos, other posts glorifying Nazis, and rambling messages about violence.”

From the BBC.

Biden has apparently set the flags at half mast, the way things are shaping up over there they’ll be at half mast permanently. Viva-2A.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 09, 2023, 01:23:56 AM
It's interesting what he says about mental health in Texas.  I'm having trouble finding exactly what they've done. 

Apparently Texas is ranked last in mental healthcare for children.

I've found a 15 million dollar bill.  https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04/13/texas-senate-mental-health-children/

This is some genius tier solutions.  Just train all students to be combat medics.  Hell why don't they just rotate kids through the front lines in Ukraine?  While they're at it why not require plate carriers in the school dress code?
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-bill-proposes-bleeding-stations-in-schools-therapist-warns-of-mental-health-impacts

I can't find any source besides the governor which says they've increased mental health funding by 25 billion.  As far as I can tell they're going to need to more than double the amount they spend now to be mediocre in mental health care.  https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/states-who-spend-the-most-on-mental-health-funding.html


As always
Big corp shifts the cost burden of their action onto public.
People really love subsidizing billionaires.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 09, 2023, 06:55:11 AM
I never knew that Nazism and white supremacy was so popular in central and south american countries. (I'm not being sarcastic, I really didn't know)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 09, 2023, 06:59:38 AM
I never knew that Nazism and white supremacy was so popular in central and south american countries. (I'm not being sarcastic, I really didn't know)
Didn't quite a few Nazis escape Germany to South America at the end of the war?  I've always heard that to be the case but never actually looked into it to see if it were true.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 09, 2023, 07:38:16 AM
I think so, I've watched History shows (or something, I dont' remember) about Argentina. The surprising thing to me is not that there were or are enclaves of white Nazis in these countries, but that there are brown people who are white supremacists. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 09, 2023, 08:30:52 AM
They exist.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fuentes.  It doesn't make a whole lot of sense but it is a thing.

It's not quite as nonsensical as Clayton Bigsby. 



Maybe they just think, eh Latino, close enough to white.  And what the hell is a Latino supremacist?  Best to join an existing franchise to avoid the cost of a new startup.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on May 09, 2023, 01:31:02 PM
New study on exposure to firearm violence https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2804655
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 09, 2023, 03:11:26 PM
They exist.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fuentes.  It doesn't make a whole lot of sense but it is a thing.

It's not quite as nonsensical as Clayton Bigsby. 



Maybe they just think, eh Latino, close enough to white.  And what the hell is a Latino supremacist?  Best to join an existing franchise to avoid the cost of a new startup.


hahahaha
i divocred her because seh's a n*a lover



side note
are they self deprecating? - a bid for 'merican acceptance to be part of the club?
is it a catholic thing?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on May 09, 2023, 04:10:24 PM
Your speculation is as good as mine.  I don't have much insight into how a non-white white supremacist thinks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on May 09, 2023, 05:42:59 PM
I dont have a subscription.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/08/texas-shooting-white-supremacy-non-whites/


https://www.axios.com/2022/03/10/rise-white-nationalist-hispanics-latinos



Also
What a weird thing to google.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on July 18, 2023, 03:40:47 PM
School starts in a month and you know what that means.  It's time to shop for bulletproof backpacks.

This is not a joke. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 18, 2023, 08:41:12 PM
School starts in a month and you know what that means.  It's time to shop for bulletproof backpacks.

This is not a joke.
Unless you're Republican, then you gotta go back to school gun shopping.  So your kid can defend themselves against any shooter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on July 18, 2023, 09:03:44 PM
I have a friend who seriously suggested that as a strategy. 

Do these people think that they can shoot an incoming bullet or something?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on July 18, 2023, 10:41:00 PM
I have a friend who seriously suggested that as a strategy. 

Do these people think that they can shoot an incoming bullet or something?

No, but they think its better to be armed and able than helpless.  Its a culture thing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Themightykabool on July 19, 2023, 06:01:22 AM
I keep asking 'them' who say its for selfdefense if they wear bullet proof vests everywhere they go.
They ask why.
Then i get thhem to walk thorugh an armed encoutner.
Thiier brains short ciruict and thet tell me to move, be a sheep, call the cops-only-minutss-away.

Amazing logic brains.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2023, 12:49:28 PM
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/lewiston-maine-mass-shootings-10-27-23/index.html

Quote
Officials are urging residents to keep sheltering in place Friday as an intensive manhunt continues for a suspect in Wednesday's shooting rampage in Lewiston, Maine, that left at least 18 dead and 13 injured, according to authorities.

Robert Card, 40, is facing an arrest warrant for eight counts of murder and should be considered armed and dangerous, police said. He is a certified firearms instructor and a member of the US Army Reserves, police said – and his background could make the effort to find him both challenging and dangerous, experts told CNN.

https://x.com/davidhogg111/status/1717911122232127716?s=20

Quote
We will never end gun violence until white woman in the suburbs stop voting for the republicans who are endangering our schools and communities by flooding them with guns.

Man murders a bunch of people, white women to blame.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on October 27, 2023, 01:12:42 PM
I'm more concerned about the job killing, fascist lockdowns that the demoncratic governor of Maine is enforcing on its citizens.

HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING FROM COVID!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on October 27, 2023, 02:11:46 PM
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/lewiston-maine-mass-shootings-10-27-23/index.html

Quote
Officials are urging residents to keep sheltering in place Friday as an intensive manhunt continues for a suspect in Wednesday's shooting rampage in Lewiston, Maine, that left at least 18 dead and 13 injured, according to authorities.

Robert Card, 40, is facing an arrest warrant for eight counts of murder and should be considered armed and dangerous, police said. He is a certified firearms instructor and a member of the US Army Reserves, police said – and his background could make the effort to find him both challenging and dangerous, experts told CNN.

https://x.com/davidhogg111/status/1717911122232127716?s=20

Quote
We will never end gun violence until white woman in the suburbs stop voting for the republicans who are endangering our schools and communities by flooding them with guns.

Man murders a bunch of people, white women to blame.

This is why bowling allys NEED MORE GUNS!  If the pin boy or the person behind the counter was armed, none of this would have happened.  But those liberals want to strip us all of our right to defend ourselves in our own bowling allys!


Also, they blame the women because, lets face it: Men are the actual problem and they'll never actually stop themselves.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2023, 03:15:37 PM
Only the white women, though. He wouldn't get any likes if he blamed all women.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2023, 03:25:06 PM
Ha, I was just reading that the new Speaker, Mike Johnson, blames feminism, no-fault divorce, and the human heart for mass shootings. At least he didn't blame it on the white woman's heart, but it's almost a horseshoe.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on October 27, 2023, 04:00:09 PM
Those murderous whites!

This new speaker is seriously a clown.  He doesn't seem like a maniac just looking at him but good god he's a caricature of conservatives.  https://kentuckylantern.com/briefs/mike-johnson-defended-noahs-ark-attraction-in-kentucky-before-becoming-u-s-house-speaker/



It's very important that children are taught that humans in the past could have a dinosaur as a pet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 27, 2023, 05:50:29 PM
omg, I remember when internet forums had mega threads devoted to that guy. lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Lorddave on October 27, 2023, 09:27:51 PM
Only the white women, though. He wouldn't get any likes if he blamed all women.

If I'm reading this correctly:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voting-patterns-in-the-2022-elections/pp_2023-07-12_validated-voters_2-01/

Black women vote overwhelmingly democrat.
Hispanic are a sizable dem voter tho not as impressive.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 21, 2023, 10:57:29 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67793962

Quote
Prague shooting: Gunman dead after killing more than 15 at Charles University

More than 15 people have been killed and 24 injured in a shooting at a university in Prague, officials say.

Police said the gunman had also been "eliminated" following the shooting at Charles University - the deadliest attack in modern Czech history.

Prime Minister Petr Fiala said he had cancelled upcoming engagements in light of the "tragic events" on Thursday.

University staff were told to stay put, barricade themselves in rooms and turn off the lights.

Footage has emerged on social video showing terrified crowds fleeing the area popular with tourists.

Police received first reports of shooting at the university's Faculty of Arts on Jan Palach Square in the centre of the capital after 15:00 local time (14:00 GMT).

At a briefing later on Thursday, the police and city authorities said the gunman was a student at the faculty.

They said he was a 24-year-old from a village 21km (13 miles) outside Prague. The suspect's father had been found dead earlier on Thursday.

The gunman's motives were not immediately known.

 :(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 24, 2024, 05:55:44 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nra-trial-verdict-rcna138827

Looks like Wayne LaPierre has to pay the NRA over $4 million.