Another mass shooting...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/mass-shooting-reported-at-texas-sutherland-springs-church.html

You know the drill. 

It's too soon to talk about gun control.

Let's blame it on violent video games.

inb4 D1 claims it's a false flag.

Thoughts and prayers from all of our politicians.

I like how the people commenting on the article are already assuming the political inclination of the perpetrator based on nothing.

I'm glad they got the shooter. I've been trying to find new information, but I guess it's just not out there yet.

What gun control law would've stopped this?

What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Shit, the internet is already pointing the finger at the wrong person.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 02:36:44 PM

What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

inb4 D1 claims it's a false flag.

Maybe this is the anonymous action that d1 was telling us to expect. 

Quote from: crutonius on November 05, 2017, 02:40:33 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 02:36:44 PM

What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

My complaint is that conservative politicians often use the excuse of "it's insensitive to the victims to talk about this" as a tactic to deflect from even having the conversation.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 03:25:23 PM

Quote from: crutonius on November 05, 2017, 02:40:33 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 02:36:44 PM

What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

My complaint is that conservative politicians often use the excuse of "it's insensitive to the victims to talk about this" as a tactic to deflect from even having the conversation.

There's no need for us to deflect. The facts are on our side. We just think standing on the yet to be cold bodies  to promote your (not you specifically but in the general sense) political agenda is a bit insensitive.

It would be right to say it is insensitive to talk about gun control soon after the events. Also policy should never be driven by people who are emotional charged. Instead it should be by cool level headed people who can look at everything objectively

I guess the issue is, we know they will NEVER look into it with any seriousness. I guess people aren't calling out for gun control just because of this event. They are calling for it still since the 'Sandy Hook massacre' and even prior.

But these mass shootings are pretty small scale

Today, 100odd people will die by a gun in the US (self inflicted or not). Yesterday was no different and tomorrow will be the same story. That's 100 different families grieving every day for someone's loss before their time. Nothing enlightened about that

This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.


From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Edit. Ignore the obvious shill in the first reply.

There is no debate. I believe he was actually stopped by a citizen returning fire.

Don't mess with Texas.

Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Edit. Ignore the obvious shill in the first reply.

There is no debate. I believe he was actually stopped by a citizen returning fire.

Don't mess with Texas.

I see that my country has over twenty times the amount of fire arms related homicides than yours does. If it were up to you would you like to see the same level of access to guns in your country as I have in mine?

If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.

Freedom > Security.

Very true. But it isn't absolute. You wouldn't want a citizen to have his own icbm program and you wouldn't want to declare butter knives illegal. So where is it reasonable to draw the line?

I think the post from nipponanon above sums it up nicely. Pardon the profanity.


Citizens don't need their own icbms, no.

Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.

If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.

You are never truly "free". Not in any society that has ever functioned. In every society compromises have to be made to keep its people safe and to aid progress. Frankly the US situation is silly. It's pretty obvious that very few people would give a shit were it not for the gun companies that would lose their greatest market.

So,  where are the claims of false flag?   Breathless claims of Soros planning to be selling metal detectors to churches? 

Forget the victims,  it's time to push some stupid right wing looney political agenda.  FFS.

Americans have lost the plot.

Quote from: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 09:02:48 PM

If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.

You are never truly "free". Not in any society that has ever functioned. In every society compromises have to be made to keep its people safe and to aid progress. Frankly the US situation is silly. It's pretty obvious that very few people would give a shit were it not for the gun companies that would lose their greatest market.

I agree.
Also, the 'muricans are not free in the sense of them getting hardcore propaganda and influence from the gun companies, so most of the 'muricans are not willing to accept stricter gun control, although most of them would only profit from it.

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.

Which countries are you talking about?

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.  All our Constitution does is recognize this right and explicitly prohibit its infringement.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on November 06, 2017, 03:07:43 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.

Which countries are you talking about?

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.  All our Constitution does is recognize this right and explicitly prohibit its infringement.

Gun ownership is not a fundamental human right.

What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on November 06, 2017, 03:07:43 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.

Which countries are you talking about?

Australia and the UK.  In fact pick any country other than the USA.

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.

Presumably the "we" you are referring to is the USA?  You might not have noticed, but people from other countries also post on the interwebs, and they might have different ideas to you about what rights people possess.

Either way, human rights are just rights that groups of humans have agreed amongst themselves and then enshrined in law.  Nobody is born with the right to posses a particular weapon.

Do you think you are born with the right to posses (and use) a Abrams tank, a cruise missile system or a thermonuclear weapon?  If you don't (and you'd be a lunatic if you did) then we both agree that a civilisation should restrict which weapons it's citizenry should use, we just disagree on which weapons.  Nothing to do with fundamental rights.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 02:36:44 PM

What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote

he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.


From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Quote from: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 08:44:00 PM

This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.


From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.

Quote from: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 08:44:00 PM

This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.


From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.

Replace cnn with MSM and Facebook and you probably are close. Something to the effect of "there is so much Christian bashing on aethiest, MSM, and Facebook sites that it led him to this." That's obviously wring as it was an inside job in order to sow discord in peoples' faith organizations and make them question whether they should attend church or not.  Or it was an inside job to drum up evangelical support by uniting Christians behind the boogeyman of atheism.