Another mass shooting...

I think it's mentally lazy to just lump all mass shooters into the mental illness category.  Obviously there is something wrong with them to allow them to commit such atrocities. However, these people account for a small percentage of people dealing with mental illness, even the same illnesses in a lot of cases.  There must be some sort of differentiator which causes one person to do what hundreds others don't.

That argument also stops any other discussions dead in the tracks, as if it's possible to actually fix the mental illness issue. But the focus is put so much onto the mental illness issue that any other solutions are seen as bandaids and will ultimately be ineffective.

Tl;dr stop placing the onus on mental health.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second

Quote

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

My only worry with Pence's plan is that court systems are already bogged down. I'm afraid these types of preventative cases would be disregarded or thrown out as frivolous. I like the idea of being able to legally confiscate from potentially dangerous people, but it's a fine line to walk in determining what constitutes potentially dangerous, legitimately dangerous, or just really terrible internet trolling.

Yeah, it's a huge job and needs careful consideration.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second

Quote

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

That's how the creative process works. I've thrown in some pretty off the wall solutions in meetings over the years knowing they would never actually solve a problem. It gives other people the freedom to think out loud.

If you start out with limitations you will never get the best solution.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 02:02:49 PM

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second

Quote

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

That's how the creative process works. I've thrown in some pretty off the wall solutions in meetings over the years knowing they would never actually solve a problem. It gives other people the freedom to think out loud.

If you start out with limitations you will never get the best solution.

I can't really fault Trump for blurting something like that out.  They stuck a news crew where the sausage gets made.  A lot of ideas that need some more baking comes out there.

They need to stop doing this shit. 

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:34:03 PM

Quote from: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 06:26:54 AM

School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse

As an actual officer, what do you think should happen to them?

They should be fired for their cowardace and the sheriff should resign. 1 coward is one thing. You can have someone slip through the cracks, however when four deputies fail to enter, something is wrong with command.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:24:17 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on February 15, 2018, 02:33:56 AM

Quote from: jroa on February 14, 2018, 04:01:25 PM

This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.

Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.

Sources please.

Sure.

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q

Also mass shootings =/= school shootings.
Also you should consider that not all europe countries are involved in big anti terrorism stuff (which makes them a terrorism target), so some countries, e.g. denmark, norway, switzerland,... are quite safe, where as others like french are not as safe.

About the officer there: As far as I know, he thought that the shooter was outside (he said that in a phone call I think). So getting behind his car and wait for reinforcement was - from what I heared - what the protocol says to do in such a situation. I might be wrong here, also I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.

Even if he thought the shooting was outside, he should've gone towards the gun fire. Ever since Columbine, officers in most states including Florida teach that if backup is not immediately on scene, you should go in and neutralize the threat.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:24:17 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on February 15, 2018, 02:33:56 AM

Quote from: jroa on February 14, 2018, 04:01:25 PM

This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.

Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.

Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.

Technically I'm not a police officer. I'm with the auxiliary unit with my department. I don't have the same powers as a police officer as of now.

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 06:21:02 PM

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

The more important question is:

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

What's with the crowns?   

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 06:21:02 PM

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

What's with the crowns?

That looks both demented and sick

I wonder if they are Moonies.

Quote from: crutonius on February 28, 2018, 06:22:29 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 06:21:02 PM

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

Don't worry, I got it.
For the others, it's a nail gun.

Quote from: Boots on February 28, 2018, 06:31:20 PM

Quote from: crutonius on February 28, 2018, 06:22:29 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 06:21:02 PM

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

Don't worry, I got it.
For the others, it's a nail gun.

We can't let this technology get into the hands of the Romans. They'll crucify every messiah in a single afternoon.

Limit them to staple guns.

Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 07:42:56 PM

Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?

Next thing will be you can't tie damsels-in-despair to rail road tracks.

WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

I wonder if they are Moonies.

Found them, and yes, definitely Moonies. http://sanctuary-pa.org/

Welcome to the website of the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, also known as the Sanctuary Church of Newfoundland, PA!

Our pastor, Rev. Hyung Jin Moon, and his wife Rev. Yeon Ah Lee Moon, are the appointed heir/successor couple carrying on the providential work of his father, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, whose encounter with Jesus at age 15 led to his six decade worldwide ministry to fulfill Christ's mission, based on his Biblically based teachings, the Divine Principle.

...

Method to Multiply Holy Salt

1. Obtain the seed Holy Salt.

2. New salt needs to be purchased. Take a few grains of the seed Holy Salt and sprinkle on the newly purchased salt package or carton as soon as possible upon purchase.

3. Clean the environment to be used to multiply the Holy Salt. It is suggested to use a sheet of paper on a table or on the floor on which one mixes the salt piles.

4. Make one pile with the seed Holy Salt and make seven identical size piles of the new salt. All the piles should be of equal amounts.

5. Offer a prayer along these lines:
“I pray that this salt is sanctified and turned into Holy Salt. This I report in the name of the (family name) Blessed Central Family.”

Note: If the person praying has not received the Blessing ceremony, it is suggested he/she would then pray in the name of the Three Kingships.

6. Sprinkle the seed Holy Salt on each of the seven piles of new salt using your right hand.

7. Mix the seed Holy Salt into each of the seven piles.

8. Mix all the piles together.

9. Final prayer (optional).

Note: If only a small quantity of the original seed Holy Salt is available, perform the above multiplication procedure more than once, thus making a greater quantity from the original seed Holy Salt.

They need to stop doing this shit.

This is why some people think Trump has you on strings. If he called for banning semi auto rifles the entire media would immediately say we need more semi auto rifles. Sometimes I don't believe this timeline is real.

I support the US constitution.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 07:42:56 PM

Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?

Yeah for the love of god don't follow our example.

Method to Multiply Holy Salt

1. Obtain the seed Holy Salt.

2. New salt needs to be purchased. Take a few grains of the seed Holy Salt and sprinkle on the newly purchased salt package or carton as soon as possible upon purchase.

3. Clean the environment to be used to multiply the Holy Salt. It is suggested to use a sheet of paper on a table or on the floor on which one mixes the salt piles.

4. Make one pile with the seed Holy Salt and make seven identical size piles of the new salt. All the piles should be of equal amounts.

5. Offer a prayer along these lines:
“I pray that this salt is sanctified and turned into Holy Salt. This I report in the name of the (family name) Blessed Central Family.”

Note: If the person praying has not received the Blessing ceremony, it is suggested he/she would then pray in the name of the Three Kingships.

6. Sprinkle the seed Holy Salt on each of the seven piles of new salt using your right hand.

7. Mix the seed Holy Salt into each of the seven piles.

8. Mix all the piles together.

9. Final prayer (optional).

Note: If only a small quantity of the original seed Holy Salt is available, perform the above multiplication procedure more than once, thus making a greater quantity from the original seed Holy Salt.

Is this the BitCoin Manifesto?

That's pretty memeable.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on February 28, 2018, 12:39:08 AM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:24:17 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on February 15, 2018, 02:33:56 AM

Quote from: jroa on February 14, 2018, 04:01:25 PM

This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.

Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.

Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right? If 1 shooting happens there it will glide up to the top of the chart in no time, with many countries not even having a single shooting in recent history. That doesn't say anything about Europe in general. Norway had 1 shooting and that's it. But it was extremely deadly and the population is low. Even if no shootings happen there for the next 10 years and the rate of shootings increases in the US it will still be way up there. I don't find it very surprising in France, because of the terrorist attacks, which is a different issue altogether, and countries like Albania and Macedonia are not ones I would call "advanced". If you really want a statistic that says anything, you'd have to compile data from all European countries and add them together, treating the whole of Europe as a single country. You can't compare countries 100 times smaller than the US with it for something as uncommon as mass shootings. It's like comparing individual states.

Btw Switzerland, Norway, Serbia and Belgium are some of the most armed countries in Europe. Belgium actually has similar gun laws to the US. Food for thought.

Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:41:12 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on February 28, 2018, 12:39:08 AM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:24:17 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on February 15, 2018, 02:33:56 AM

Quote from: jroa on February 14, 2018, 04:01:25 PM

This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.

Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.

Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right?

That's not even the issue.  This site is run by John Lott:

He has authored books such as More Guns, Less Crime, The Bias Against Guns, and Freedomnomics. He is best known as an advocate[1][2][3] in the gun rights debate, particularly his arguments against restrictions on owning and carrying guns. Newsweek referred to Lott as "The Gun Crowd's Guru."[4]

He's been caught lots of times, not just manipulating data but just plain making shit up.

Lott often claims that there is no difference between the frequency of public shootings in Europe and the United States. This is unabashedly false — but he continues to spread the falsehood anyway.

In February, he made the claim before the Tennessee Senate. “Most people may not realize this, but the rate of mass public shootings in Europe is actually fairly similar to the rate in the United States,” he said. “There is no statistically significant difference there, either in terms of the rate or fatalities.”

A couple of months earlier, he said something similar to the Washington Post, which quickly highlighted that his analysis was quite different from that of other experts in the field. As the Post noted, while Lott said the per capita rates of mass shootings in Europe and the United States were approximately the same, another researcher found the U.S. rate to be five times higher. The Post explained that the gulf between the results was due to Lott and the other researcher using different definitions.

But there is an even simpler explanation for the differing conclusions: Lott wasn’t being honest about his own findings.

While Lott claims the per capita rate in the United States and Europe are approximately the same, his own data tables tell a different story. Accepting his data at face value, between 2009 and 2015, the United States had 25 mass shootings versus 19 in the E.U. and 24 in Europe as a whole. This comes out as a rate of .078 shootings per million individuals in the United States, .038 for the E.U., and .032 for Europe as a whole. The United States has more than double the mass shooting rate of the E.U. and Europe, directly contradicting Lott’s statements about his own data.

Further, Lott’s carefully crafted criteria to include an incident as a mass shooting is highly suspect. Lott goes to great lengths to exclude mass shootings that are the result of burglaries and gang violence, but he includes terrorist attacks. This choice means that while the Texas biker gang gunfight last summer is excluded in his statistics, the November Paris attacks, which accounted for more than one-third of Europe’s mass shooting fatalities, are included.

However, when scholars study these mass shootings, they frequently exclude terrorist attacks from the analysis, for much the same reason Lott excludes burglaries and gang violence: the motivations are different. When researchers use a more appropriate set of criteria, the chasm between the rate of mass shootings in Europe and the United States widens even further. Researchers can also include all incidents of mass shootings (regardless of motivation) or use complex statistical analysis to determine whether the mass shooting difference between the United States and Europe is significant. The result remains the same — the United States fares far worse.

All of these methods point to the same conclusion: even if Lott wasn’t lying about his own results, his analysis would still be deeply flawed.

It also doesn't have anything to do with school shootings, which is the topic of discussion.  The USA is off the charts for that compared to other countries.