Another mass shooting...

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Rayzor

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #210 on: November 11, 2017, 01:40:32 AM »
I'll let you in on a little secret. The post quotation is actually a url also and you can click on it. It takes you back to the original post made.

You made some ridiculous ad hominem against myself and shifter and I responded in turn. I'm actually a very good shot with a rifle and better than average with a handgun.

However my weapon on choice is a computer and the battlefield has always been teh internets. You and your handlers and more scared of free speech than guns. You're not even shilling to take away all guns, just from "crazy people" which today could be substituted for someone who disagrees with the MSM news.

Lying would be insisting you said something you didn't. Like crutonius did concerning MaNaeSWolf. Click the post to see your original, it's still there and it really does work.

Look at what I did to your entire team here mainly with a smartphone and mobile data.
You and I both know which weapon you'd prefer us having.

Quote from: Kevin Shipp CIA whistleblower
They know we have the internet and they are scared, trust me.

You are right to be afraid.

When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.  Shifty is the anti gun proponent. 

Half the crap you post makes no sense, the other half involves delusions that there is a conspiracy against you personally, and you are some kind of 4chan anon keyboard warrior,  you seriously need to get help, you are only one step away from madness.

But keep posting, I get a chuckle every so often from your ignorance.

BTW,  Just so you know, for future reference, mass murderers are by definition crazy insane.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #211 on: November 11, 2017, 01:43:44 AM »
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

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disputeone

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #212 on: November 11, 2017, 01:46:19 AM »
Jeez scepti.
Totalitarian much?

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disputeone

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #213 on: November 11, 2017, 01:48:55 AM »
You're not even shilling to take away all guns,
When have I advocated for gun control?

Wait, what?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #214 on: November 11, 2017, 01:51:47 AM »
Jeez scepti.
Totalitarian much?
Nope, just a modern day man trying to live the life I have with as little fuss as possible in terms of physical fights that gain no traction and become pointless energy wasting.

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disputeone

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #215 on: November 11, 2017, 02:35:17 AM »
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #216 on: November 11, 2017, 02:39:50 AM »
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
No need for that.
Imagine the drop in crime if people were not able to get away with using tools designed to kill en-masse.
Just take away the tit for tat potential of that and the make punishments fit the crimes from those that flout the laws.
No need to cut off arms and legs.


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Pezevenk

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #217 on: November 11, 2017, 02:54:17 AM »
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html
You do realize that was a gang, not just one person, right?

Quote
And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
Good, compare that to Sandy Hook.

Quote
Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Neither show up. Meanwhile I found this which contains many sources: https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com

Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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Pezevenk

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #218 on: November 11, 2017, 02:57:38 AM »
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

Yeah, because the two are totally comparable.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #219 on: November 11, 2017, 07:00:29 AM »
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

lol
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You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

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Sign up here.

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markjo

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #220 on: November 11, 2017, 11:17:10 AM »
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Crouton

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #221 on: November 11, 2017, 11:41:30 AM »
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?

Apparently not in the minds of quite a few. I feel that the nra has done a masterful job in convincing people that any regulations on firearms are always a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to confiscating everyone's guns.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
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markjo

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #222 on: November 11, 2017, 12:00:24 PM »
If you talk with NRA members, you will often find that the leadership does not properly represent the members attitudes towards things like universal background checks and common sense regulations.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #223 on: November 11, 2017, 01:07:29 PM »
The people should stop giving the NRA their money. I hang up on those mofos every time they call.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Rayzor

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #224 on: November 11, 2017, 04:37:44 PM »
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?

Context is everything.  The statement I made was to correct disputes assertion that I was "shilling to take peoples guns". 

When you grow up in a rural environment,  you realize guns are just a useful tool, nothing more nothing less.  If I see a wild dog pack attacking lambs,  I'm going to be reaching for a rifle.

That has nothing to do with people going crazy with semi automatic weapons and murdering innocents. 

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #225 on: November 12, 2017, 05:41:34 AM »
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html
You do realize that was a gang, not just one person, right?

At ten people, that equals to about 3 people per person. Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder. Someone with a truck killed over 80 people in France.

Quote
And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
Good, compare that to Sandy Hook.[/quote]

Or Nice, France?
Quote
Quote
Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Neither show up. Meanwhile I found this which contains many sources: https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com

Ok, I'll give you that for now. But that isn't proof that guns are the reason for our crime rate.
Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #226 on: November 12, 2017, 08:52:38 AM »
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?
[/quote]

Well when gun advocates make that claim, they usually reference a couple of exceptions, for instance Chicago, or Maryland, but if you look at the total, it paints a different picture. First of all you have to consider the fact that some states have passed very strict gun laws specifically because of the issues they were facing with crime, while others haven't felt the need to do so because of the low violent crime rates. "Strict" gun laws is something that is hard to gauge, so what I did was compile the number of provisions every state had to regulate firearms and find the mean, split them into two groups (strict laws, loose laws) and use this board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
to determine the average murder rate in these states. Now I did fuck something up because I ended up with a couple more states in the "strict" category, but that shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's not a perfect way to gauge how strict the laws are, but it was the easiest way without making things too complex.

Here are the states of the "loose" category:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming.

Here are the "strict" states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusets, Michigan, Minnessota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, Iowa.

The average murder rate for the loose states was 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:



The average murder rate for the strict states was 5 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:



So on first inspection, it seems like they do indeed have a very slightly higher murder rate (it's actually pretty close, but there is a difference). However, notice how there's a very extreme spike in the value chart of the strict states. That's DC. No idea why it has that high a murder rate, but it doesn't really fit very well with the rest of the chart. Dropping it gives a murder rate of 4.2 for the "strict" states, which is lower than the "loose" states. Now you may or may not accept that, but these results show that at best they're about equal, they definitely don't contribute to the higher crime rates. And if you look at the states with a murder rate above 8 per 100,000 inhabitants it's just 2 (Maryland and DC) which pass the mark for the "strict" states, compared to 5 (South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alaska) for the looser ones.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #227 on: November 12, 2017, 09:37:56 AM »
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

*

Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #228 on: November 12, 2017, 09:57:47 AM »
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?

Well when gun advocates make that claim, they usually reference a couple of exceptions, for instance Chicago, or Maryland, but if you look at the total, it paints a different picture. First of all you have to consider the fact that some states have passed very strict gun laws specifically because of the issues they were facing with crime, while others haven't felt the need to do so because of the low violent crime rates. "Strict" gun laws is something that is hard to gauge, so what I did was compile the number of provisions every state had to regulate firearms and find the mean, split them into two groups (strict laws, loose laws) and use this board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
to determine the average murder rate in these states. Now I did fuck something up because I ended up with a couple more states in the "strict" category, but that shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's not a perfect way to gauge how strict the laws are, but it was the easiest way without making things too complex.

Here are the states of the "loose" category:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming.

Here are the "strict" states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusets, Michigan, Minnessota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, Iowa.

The average murder rate for the loose states was 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:



The average murder rate for the strict states was 5 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:



So on first inspection, it seems like they do indeed have a very slightly higher murder rate (it's actually pretty close, but there is a difference). However, notice how there's a very extreme spike in the value chart of the strict states. That's DC. No idea why it has that high a murder rate, but it doesn't really fit very well with the rest of the chart. Dropping it gives a murder rate of 4.2 for the "strict" states, which is lower than the "loose" states. Now you may or may not accept that, but these results show that at best they're about equal, they definitely don't contribute to the higher crime rates. And if you look at the states with a murder rate above 8 per 100,000 inhabitants it's just 2 (Maryland and DC) which pass the mark for the "strict" states, compared to 5 (South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alaska) for the looser ones.

For one I did said violent crime. For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning. And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California. Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

 
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #229 on: November 12, 2017, 10:36:35 AM »
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
No need for that.
Imagine the drop in crime if people were not able to get away with using tools designed to kill en-masse.
Just take away the tit for tat potential of that and the make punishments fit the crimes from those that flout the laws.
No need to cut off arms and legs.
While that sounds like a good idea, it would not work in the states for a few reasons.  One being we are already flooded with guns, you simply can't round them up.
Another is our constitution.  Now you could make lots of legit arguments about how what we have now is not what was intended etc but the fact remains it is in the constitution and would require a new amendment to change that.
And that's just first ones that popped into my head.

Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #230 on: November 12, 2017, 10:38:16 AM »
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
That struck me as pretty funny as well!

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #231 on: November 12, 2017, 10:56:43 AM »
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
That struck me as pretty funny as well!

It's worse than saying cops are racist while at the same time saying only cops should have guns.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #232 on: November 12, 2017, 12:08:53 PM »
I am surprised scepti...very surprised you would advocate security over freedom.

As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #233 on: November 12, 2017, 12:33:41 PM »
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.
It's not particularly easy, finding the materials can be a challenge and it's quite possible that you'll be tracked.

Quote
For one I did said violent crime.

Yes, that's violent crime right there.

Quote
For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning.

I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, you claimed that states with stricter gun laws tend to have more violent crimes, and I showed it's not true, that's all there is to this.

Quote
And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California.

Yeah, so? What does that prove? The smaller population also means that these are far less likely. And there are plenty of small states that are in the strict category. Besides, you say this next:

Quote
Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

First of all that completely defeats your previous point. Second isn't that sort of expected, given that California is way, way larger than most other states?
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markjo

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #234 on: November 12, 2017, 05:58:01 PM »
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense.  There's also a saying that your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.
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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #235 on: November 13, 2017, 09:44:58 AM »
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.
It's not particularly easy, finding the materials can be a challenge and it's quite possible that you'll be tracked.

All you need is gunpowder, a metal pipe, and a fuse of some kind. Gun powder is readily available, you get pipes from Home Depot, and find some means to get a fuse to ignite it.

Quote
Quote
For one I did said violent crime.

Yes, that's violent crime right there.

It's a type of violent crime. It doesn't include rape or robbery.

Quote
Quote
For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning.

I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, you claimed that states with stricter gun laws tend to have more violent crimes, and I showed it's not true, that's all there is to this.

You only showed states with murder rates, not violent crime in general.

Quote
Quote
And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California.

Yeah, so? What does that prove? The smaller population also means that these are far less likely. And there are plenty of small states that are in the strict category. Besides, you say this next:

If I'm not mistaken mkst of the murders within those states happens in the few large cities the states have.

Quote

Quote
Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

First of all that completely defeats your previous point. Second isn't that sort of expected, given that California is way, way larger than most other states?

For one I'm not saying it's because they have struct gun laws is the reason. However I am saying that it does go against the narrative of states with looser gun laws have more mass shootings. And in fact, states with looser gun laws have a slightly lesser gun homicide rate than those with stricter gun laws.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #236 on: November 13, 2017, 10:08:58 AM »
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense.  There's also a saying that your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

How does this not make sense? The founding fathers knew how baby steps lead to a police state, oppression and tyranny. Baby steps will eventually lead you over a cliff no matter how slow you walk. So...don't take any steps and you will never start the slow motion suicide.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #237 on: November 13, 2017, 10:20:42 AM »
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #238 on: November 13, 2017, 10:42:32 AM »
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.
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LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

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Pezevenk

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #239 on: November 13, 2017, 11:40:22 AM »
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

No. What SCG mentioned is the most blatant and obvious examples, but you can find more. For instance, most drugs are not allowed. Speeding or driving under the influence is not allowed. I can thing of hundreds of examples of things and activities that don't infringe anyone's rights directly, but are banned because of the danger they pose compared to their merit.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)