Another mass shooting...

From what I've read, these marches aren't against Trump per se, but against legislators. The same legislators that's consistently say "thoughts and prayers" "now is not the right time" and then a few weeks after the tragedy has passed, they forget it ever happened and do nothing to try to find any sort of solutions.

As to what could prevent this, there are a few things that might curb some of the violence. Increase the age for semiautomatics to match the age for handguns, increase school funding specifically to put in security devices such as metal detectors and devices for class rooms to prevent the doors from opening, run live drills for active shooters at least twice in a school year with one being no less than a month into the start of the year. This is not an exhaustive list, there are so many other ways this issue could potentially be addressed, yet both state and federal legislators seem content to just give thoughts and prayers each time this happens.

What do you think will help duck?

It's fine to be upset, the shooting upset me. I'm not sure how this rally agaisnt Trump will save kids lives.

Oh we're off the conspiracy theories and back to policy now?

Option 1, do whatever you guys did to stop your problem with school shootings.

Option 2, follow the same path we used to sharply reduce the number of DUI related deaths.

Option 3(what we're doing now), do nothing and try to get used to hearing about children being massacred several times a year.



Edit;  Nevermind all that  .We'll just give guns to the teachers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/02/22/attacks-would-end-trump-expresses-support-for-raising-assault-rifle-age-to-21-presses-cases-for-arming-some-teachers/?utm_term=.b78fa11985eb

This is the problem with having a senile president.  He doesn't understand that this is teacher arming idea is just a distraction technique from the NRA and isn't meant to be seriously considered.

On the other hand, raising the age you can own an assault riffle at 21 is a plus. Raising it to 210 would be even better but eh.

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing. 

I don't think there's any single law that's going to do the job.  I think it's something that's going to take a lot of work experimenting with different laws, studying the results and readjusting the approach.  All of the different factors such as mental health and society need to be considered as well.  It's a long boring slog to improve things.  This is all well within the government's ability.  They do this all the time with trying to find the balance between safety and freedom in most things.  The problem is this process can't be carried out when every time any legislation comes up with any gun restriction the NRA starts screaming "they're comin' to take away yer guns!".

I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

Welcome to the American government

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it

Quote from: jroa on February 22, 2018, 08:48:01 AM

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it

I agree. Laws are for shit. Like seriously, every criminal ever disobeyed the law... that's 100% proof that laws are useless. We should abandon all laws. That'd even drop the crime rate by 100% - awesome!

Quote from: jroa on February 22, 2018, 08:48:01 AM

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it

In this latest instance, it might have helped. The shooter was 19 and purchased the weapons himself.

Quote from: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 01:04:18 PM

Quote from: jroa on February 22, 2018, 08:48:01 AM

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it

In this latest instance, it might have helped. The shooter was 19 and purchased the weapons himself.

I agree in principle to increase the age limit. Actually my principles (growing up in a society where no one really has a gun and no one gives a shit about them) is to get rid of the damn things. I don't believe any society could have enlightenment when you allow everyone within it to have enough firepower to take out a small army.

America is waaaay past the point of no return. The guns are there to stay. I would say ban any 'assault' weapon until they are 25. That's when you can have relative assurance the brain is finished developing its reason and consequences bit. It also means most people (at that age) are well and truly done with their education

Why the hell does a teenager need the style of bullets that do so much damage? Let them have rubber ones. If someone pulled a gun on you, rubber or lead, you'd still run like hell away. Your self defence ability is not taken away from you but your killing ability is reduced

I think background checks should also be 'foreground' checks. If you are convicted of a violent crime, bye bye guns. Given how some people value their guns more than they value anything else, maybe they think twice before committing the crime? So you get your background check at 18 years old. Clean record. Grab whatever you like. Yet you an cause all sorts of mayhem that would ordinarily prevent you from owning the guns you bought and still get to keep them? Correct me if that is not the case but if that is the case that's pretty dumb

Obviously I come from a different mindset and different culture. I try to see both sides but am still dominated by my own feelings on it. The students calling for change wont get what they want because what they demand is too overreaching. Need to find a middle ground.

Also, had the FBI done their jobs this shit may never have happened. There is a system in place that could have prevented this from happening but for whatever reason it's broken.

The problem is, no one wants to address the root of the issue and that is a deranged mentality that seems unique to certain people in the U.S.

Let's take everyone's​ guns...fine, then the nuts will kill people with vehicles...take all vehicles away, then they will kill people with fire, gas, explosives etc etc.

If you want the issue fixed, gotta figure out how to fix these people or spot them early. Yes, the majority in the US is deranged to an extent and it is fairly easy to spot how that happens, but we need to figure out why certain people take it to level 10.

I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

Conspiracy nutter. No politician is bought and they never ever lie. (Except GRUYMPTHF.)

Part of Shifter's Post

"I think background checks should also be 'foreground' checks. If you are convicted of a violent crime, bye bye guns. Given how some people value their guns more than they value anything else, maybe they think twice before committing the crime? So you get your background check at 18 years old. Clean record. Grab whatever you like. Yet you an cause all sorts of mayhem that would ordinarily prevent you from owning the guns you bought and still get to keep them? Correct me if that is not the case but if that is the case that's pretty dumb"

It is already illegal for a convicted felon to possessa firearm, and they can't even buy a gun. That still desn't stop plenty of felons from obtaining guns from other means.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

What a chicken shit. Defensive position??? More like a cowards position.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

I refuse to pay that shit media organization to read the link.

No idea what it says

Hmm, I was able to access it. Guess they don't care about overseas people reading in?

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The armed school resource officer assigned to protect students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School took a defensive position outside the school and did not enter the building while the shooter was killing students and teachers inside with an AR-15 assault-style rifle, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Thursday.

Israel said he suspended School Resource Deputy Scot Peterson on Thursday after seeing a video from the Parkland, Fla., school that showed Peterson outside the school building where the shooter was inside and attacking.

“What I saw was a deputy arrive at the west side of Building 12, take up a position, and never went in,” Israel said.


He said Peterson was armed, and was in uniform, and should have gone into the building during the 6-minute event, which left 17 people, most of them teenagers, dead. When asked what the deputy should have done, Israel said: “Went in and addressed the killer. Killed the killer.”

[ What police are trained to do during active shooter incidents: Find the threat ]

Peterson, 54, a resource officer at the school since 2009, resigned after Israel suspended him. Israel said two other officers have been placed on a restricted assignment pending an internal investigation relating the school shooting.


“They could have done more, they should have done more,” Israel said. “It’s a fluid investigation. They are on restrictive duty.”

Attempts to reach Peterson on Thursday were unsuccessful.

Israel said that Peterson was in an office dealing with a school-related issue when the first shots were fired on Feb. 14 and that he got on his radio and then moved toward the outside of the building where the shooting was taking place. When asked what he is seen doing on the video, Israel replied: “Nothing.”

“I think he took up a position where it looked like he could see the western-most entry into the building and stayed where he was,” Israel said. “Never went in.”

[ The FBI said it failed to act on a tip about the suspected Florida school shooter’s potential for violence ]

Israel said he “clearly” knew there was a shooter inside, something that made him “sick to my stomach.”

“There are no words,” Israel said. “These families lost their children. We lost coaches. I’ve been to the funerals. I’ve been to the homes where they’re sitting shiva. I’ve been to the vigils. It’s just, there are no words.”


The revelation about the deputy comes as law enforcement officials and authorities have faced intense criticism for whether they missed previous chances to prevent the massacre. The FBI was warned last month about the shooter’s potential for violence at a school, but failed to investigate that tip, while school officials, social services investigators and the sheriff’s office had multiple encounters or troubling warnings about him over the years.

Israel’s description of Peterson as an armed, trained officer who was present for a mass killing but did not confront the shooter also comes as President Trump, in response to the Parkland massacre, has suggested arming teachers as a way to deter possible threats, while the National Rifle Association has also pushed for more armed guards in schools.

Trump has frequently suggested in response to mass shootings that more law-abiding people with firearms could help stop a shooter and the head of the NRA has repeatedly suggested the same. However, Israel’s announcement Thursday suggested that even if a person is armed, trained and available to help, that may not stop a mass killing that unfolds in a matter of minutes.


[ The lives lost in the Parkland shooting ]

The deputy’s decision to remain outside breaks with police tactics for responding to active-shooting incidents. Ever since the 1999 attack at Colorado’s Columbine High School, authorities have emphasized the importance of pursuing the attacker or attackers quickly in an effort to eliminate the threat and prevent additional deaths.

“Columbine resulted in new approaches in which patrol officers are being trained to respond to active shooters as quickly as possible,” the Police Executive Research Forum, a think tank backed by major-cities chiefs, wrote in a 2014 report.

Of course, this approach brings with it inherent issues, the report continued, because “a faster response is more dangerous to responding officers. Patrol officers who quickly move to confront an active shooter face a high likelihood of being shot themselves.”

Officers involved in responding to these shootings have later described the terror they felt. A report released by the Justice Department after the San Bernardino, Calif., terror attack quoted an officer who described checking room after room in the conference center where the shooting occurred, expecting to find the shooters behind the final doors.


“I don’t want to say I made peace, but I was ready to go,” the officer said. “We got into one room, and it was empty. We had a quick breath, and in we went to the last room. I was never so excited to not see anybody.”

Reviews like that Justice Department study are regularly conducted after mass shootings, allowing officials to study how officers responded in order to determine what others can improve upon. Following the shooting rampages at the Washington Navy Yard, a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., and the Virginia Tech campus, authorities reviewed what they did and sought ways to improve future responses.

Peterson is mentioned as part of a 2016 social services agency investigation into Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old identified by police as the gunman. According to a Florida Department of Children and Families report detailing that investigation, Peterson was approached by investigators and “refused to share any information … regarding [an] incident that took place with” the teenager.

Berman reported from Washington. This story has been updated.

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign

Quote from: crutonius on February 22, 2018, 03:36:07 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

I refuse to pay that shit media organization to read the link.

No idea what it says

Here Bhs this gives them no money. It's a good website just copy the url into the box provided and press archive.

http://archive.is/5mT7O

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign

What a police officer is legally required to do is an interesting legal question.

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Yeah I don't know what to think of that.  Maybe he's really there as a deterrent. But it kind of makes me think about the idea of having armed security there.  I mean if they can choose not to get into a gun fight then I don't know how useful they are in a situation like this.

My bad about linking to wapo.  I like them but the paywalls and the length of the link is cumbersome.

Quote from: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 04:24:04 PM

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign

What a police officer is legally required to do is an interesting legal question.

Quote from: Babyhighspeed on February 22, 2018, 04:34:26 PM

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Yeah I don't know what to think of that.  Maybe he's really there as a deterrent. But it kind of makes me think about the idea of having armed security there.  I mean if they can choose not to get into a gun fight then I don't know how useful they are in a situation like this.

My bad about linking to wapo.  I like them but the paywalls and the length of the link is cumbersome.

The dilemma is you have a rent a cop guy who isn't properly trained to deal with situations like this. As school shootings is a real and sadly common occurrence, it is something he should be prepared for every day he goes to work. It's not enough to assume that you can stand there and look intimidating (their main role) and on the small chance shit hits the fan, not do your job because you gambled it would never happen.

Also I don't now what the security guards payment is like over there but if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys.

There is a system in place but seems largely broken and vulnerable. Also the root cause of why people are driven to do these horrible atrocities needs to be figured out and stopped. If you have a cancer, you cut out the cancer. Not treat the symptoms.
 

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

For once,  I agree,  you can't know in advance who will run, who will fight and who will freeze.   Intensive training can help,  so that it becomes a reflex action to fight.

That guy will live with this for the rest of his life.

That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

Unless you train for a specific situation and can respond without thinking,  you can't tell in advance who is going to flee,fight or freeze.   

Quote from: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:23:05 PM

That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

Unless you train for a specific situation and can respond without thinking,  you can't tell in advance who is going to flee,fight or freeze.

You had teachers in the school throwing themselves in between the bullets and the kids. You have a guy paid and armed to protect the kids except he waited it out probably hoping the killer would kill himself.

Defensive position my arse. He uses that language in a pathetic attempt to pretend he was doing his job.

Bravery isn't a lack of fear, bravery is doing what's right regardless of fear.

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

I would argue no guns at all until 21. It's different here you're a full adult at 18. Personally I do think 18 is a little young to be classed as an adult but that's what we've done and it works.

Quote from: jroa on February 22, 2018, 08:48:01 AM

I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

I would argue no guns at all until 21. It's different here you're a full adult at 18. Personally I do think 18 is a little young to be classed as an adult but that's what we've done and it works.

Total nationwide AR15 buy back for the win.

I predict that d1 would be a flee, rather than a fight.   He doesn't have that inner strength to be a fighter.

Lol