Another mass shooting...

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 05, 2019, 08:27:22 AM

Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

So I can waltz up into a gun shop and buy a fully automatic AK-47?

Quote from: Junker on August 06, 2019, 08:59:48 AM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 05, 2019, 08:27:22 AM

Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

So I can waltz up into a gun shop and buy a fully automatic AK-47?

No, because that falls under the definition of an assault rifle.

What you can do in many states is, as an individual is: setup a trust, apply for a class 3 SOT, and once approved buy a wide variety of fully automatic weapons that don't fall under the assault rifle ban. You can also buy suppressors and kevlar jackets at that time.

Isn't a class 3 SOT the license that a seller can get to sell Title II weapons?

Isn't a class 3 SOT the license that a seller can get to sell Title II weapons?

Correct. As an individual you can create a trust or LLC, get a FFL, get a class 3 SOT, and then purchase/sell those weapons (which include machine guns, suppressors, etc.). It is easier to do this in some states over others.

Why don't we just make guns illegal? It worked when we did it for drugs....oh wait...

Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 02:23:40 PM

Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.

Quote from: Junker on August 06, 2019, 03:31:02 PM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 02:23:40 PM

Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.

What a weird thought exercise...

Quote from: Junker on August 06, 2019, 03:31:02 PM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 02:23:40 PM

Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.

Yes, that's why we should do nothing. So as not to piss off the gangs.

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 03:33:40 PM

Quote from: Junker on August 06, 2019, 03:31:02 PM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 02:23:40 PM

Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.

Yes, that's why we should do nothing. So as not to piss off the gangs.

Just saying, it would be kind of hard to confiscate guns from them.

Not to mention all the law-abiding gun owners.

I know a lot of rednecks who would be more dangerous to take guns away from than gang members.

Wesker, instead of reeeing about guns, what do you think would help stop these mass shootings?

I know a lot of rednecks who would be more dangerous to take guns away from than gang members.

Wesker, instead of reeeing about guns, what do you think would help stop these mass shootings?

For one, the government actually enforcing existing gun laws and not letting red flags slip through. I wouldn't mind stricter background checks, with a focus on the mental health aspect, up to a certain point.

I agree about the background checks and mental health stuff, but I think a lot of these shooters would pass all that. There is something really weird going on in our country.

Not to mention all the law-abiding gun owners.

Well when guns are inevitably made illegal after the 2A is repealed, then they won't be law-abiding anymore. And since they are law-abiding folks there clearly won't be any issue in confiscating them.

Sarcasm aside, I doubt the 2A is going anywhere in our lifetime, so it would be best to work with its framework. Mandatory background checks for all sales public/retail and private. High capacity magazine restrictions, upping the age to 21 for everything but basically bolt action hunting rifles. Oh, and a massive increase in mental health services and confidential outreach programs facilitated by universal healthcare. The last time I bought a firearm from an FFL dealer, I filled out a small checklist where I self-attested that I wasn't crazy and didn't want to hurt myself or others. Obviously that is a worthless step (not sure if it has changed as this was over 10 years ago). Obviously you can't just remove a constitutional right based on a suspicion someone might be unhinged. I legit don't have a good answer for the problem of getting guns away from those unfit to own them (assuming they haven't broken any laws).

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 05, 2019, 08:27:22 AM

Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

Automatic weapons and silencers are used very infrequently in crimes. The machine gun act of 1986 plays a part in this.

Also assault rifles made before 1986 are not banned if they have the paper work.

.

Not one of those is an assault rifle.

Quote from: Junker on August 06, 2019, 08:59:48 AM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 05, 2019, 08:27:22 AM

Automatic weapons are already banned here.

No, they are not. They should be, though. Assault rifles are banned, and that term has a very clear definition.

Automatic weapons and silencers are used very infrequently in crimes. The machine gun act of 1986 plays a part in this.

Also assault rifles made before 1986 are not banned if they have the paper work.

If the current system for acquiring small arms followed the same steps as when you try to get an automatic weapon before 1986, I think that would help alot.

However, as junker said, I can't think of a good system for keeping nuts away from guns. There are some things I can think of, but no system is perfect and people will fall between the cracks or buy them illegally.

I wouldn't feel bad about making it illegal to sell guns privately or passing them.

Also, as scg said, there are rednecks and other people who would be quite dangerous. I am sure she knows some in Florida first hand as I do in Texas.

Quote from: boydster on August 06, 2019, 03:41:13 PM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 03:33:40 PM

Quote from: Junker on August 06, 2019, 03:31:02 PM

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on August 06, 2019, 02:23:40 PM

Why don't we just make guns illegal?

this but unironically

Then you can be the guy that goes up to the L.A. Crips and Bloods gangs and ask them to turn in their guns. I'm sure that will go over real well.

Yes, that's why we should do nothing. So as not to piss off the gangs.

Just saying, it would be kind of hard to confiscate guns from them.

You don't confiscate guns from the gangs. You give a gun surrender period with a buy back scheme to all citizens. Gang members interact with Police all the time, be it on the street or during raids.

You persuade the gang members to voluntarily surrender them or alternatively be charged with an offence and go to Court and then jail time.

They will eventually get the message. 

Mass shooters are usually not mentally ill.  From the ones that survive anyway.

Hateful, sure, but not mentally ill.  So no amount of mental health is going to fix that.

There is only one fix: destroy America.  Wipe out the culture.  Only then can it be rebuilt and maybe not full of hate.

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Quote from: Lorddave on August 06, 2019, 09:26:38 PM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

There are 327.2 million people in America. Be it due to genes or environment or a mixture of both, there's gonna be at least one or two bad apples out of 327.2 million.

America is great! I love America! Just make it harder for the bad apples to get their hands on semi-automatics.

Just watch. While the issue is being debated, this time next week or the week after, there will likely be another mass shooting. More blood on the street or the shopping mall. More innocent lives lost to a semi-automatic, through domestic terrorism.

All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.

There are 327.2 million people in America. Be it due to genes or environment or a mixture of both, there's gonna be at least one or two bad apples out of 327.2 million.

America is great! I love America! Just make it harder for the bad apples to get their hands on semi-automatics.

Just watch. While the issue is being debated, this time next week or the week after, there will likely be another mass shooting. More blood on the street or the shopping mall. More innocent lives lost to a semi-automatic, through domestic terrorism.

A few?  So many.  Too many who don't even realize it.  Not all will kill, but Americans are taught we are the best.  We are above all others.  We've always believed this.  From the moment the first settlers landed, we've believe it.  We are the heroes.  The police.  The leader of the free world.  The last Super Power.  And those who are not us.  Who dare to try and join our dream.... They are resources for use.  They are not us.

This is America.  And God himself has blessed us.

Quote from: Bom Tishop on August 06, 2019, 11:20:16 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on August 06, 2019, 09:26:38 PM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Fuck off with the destroy American nonsense.

.000000925 percent of people are likely to die by mass shooting on the worse year in the states. Take away guns, those same amount of people will die by other weapons or by hand

Stupid

Also, what the fuck do black people have to do with this. One of the recent shootings had Mexicans on the agenda.

Quote from: Lorddave on August 06, 2019, 11:38:42 PM

Quote from: Bom Tishop on August 06, 2019, 11:20:16 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on August 06, 2019, 09:26:38 PM

There is only one fix: destroy America. 

Are you fucking kidding me?

Give me a better solution then.  How do you prevent such hatred from killing?  How do you stop that hatred?  Its been over 100 years since blacks were freed but racism still exists.  What hope do we have of fixing anything else?  American culture is toxic and destructive.

Fuck off with the destroy American nonsense.

.000000925 percent of people are likely to die by mass shooting on the worse year in the states. Take away guns, those same amount of people will die by other weapons or by hand

Stupid

Also, what the fuck do black people have to do with this. One of the recent shootings had Mexicans on the agenda.

Its hate.  Anger.  Arrogance.  Traits we have not been able to remove from American culture.  Traits we promote, even.  My point was that if we can't stop the hatred of blacks after over 100 years, what hope do we have of any other hatred?

American society is a lost cause.  Doomed to infighting and hatred until it implodes.

I heard one American pollie in his condemnation of the attacks saying how 'Un-American' it was

I was thinking 'no you bozo - this IS American! And that is the frigging problem! It's not even a surprise anymore. There will be another one next week. And there will be more murders caused by guns in the meantime as you yanks pull out and fire loaded guns at each other as a means of conflict resolution.

Greatest country on the Earth my arse!

All firearms are semiautomatic, except a derringer or musket.

No they aren't, bulltwinkle. A semi automatic weapon is one where you depress the trigger to fire a round and another round automatically feeds into the chamber. To fire the next round, you press the trigger again. The speed of firing rounds is only limited by the speed of your trigger finger and the size of your magazine.

Shotguns and rifles are firearms where you have to eject the spent cartridge through an action like moving a bolt (bolt action), or cranking a lever, and then feed another round into the chamber, or place the round in yourself, to fire the next round. In the time it takes to reload with these weapons, the attacker can be more easily either stopped by being shot or disarmed by other means.