The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 01:55:10 PM

Title: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 01:55:10 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/mass-shooting-reported-at-texas-sutherland-springs-church.html

You know the drill. 

It's too soon to talk about gun control.

Let's blame it on violent video games.

inb4 D1 claims it's a false flag.

Thoughts and prayers from all of our politicians.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 05, 2017, 02:06:09 PM
I like how the people commenting on the article are already assuming the political inclination of the perpetrator based on nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 05, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
I'm glad they got the shooter. I've been trying to find new information, but I guess it's just not out there yet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 02:36:44 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 05, 2017, 02:45:32 PM
Shit, the internet is already pointing the finger at the wrong person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 03:25:23 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 05, 2017, 03:53:47 PM
inb4 D1 claims it's a false flag.
Maybe this is the anonymous action that d1 was telling us to expect.  :-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 04:46:31 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

My complaint is that conservative politicians often use the excuse of "it's insensitive to the victims to talk about this" as a tactic to deflect from even having the conversation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 05, 2017, 07:57:01 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

I don't know enough about this incident to say. But we're losing more people to random lunatics with guns than to Islamic terror by an order of magnitude. I think some stronger measures are in order. But I'm sure nothing will be done.

Well, if you're going to complain about people who say it's too soon to talk about gun control, it doesn't help your case if you don't have details to even make a gun law preposal.

My complaint is that conservative politicians often use the excuse of "it's insensitive to the victims to talk about this" as a tactic to deflect from even having the conversation.

There's no need for us to deflect. The facts are on our side. We just think standing on the yet to be cold bodies  to promote your (not you specifically but in the general sense) political agenda is a bit insensitive.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 05, 2017, 08:21:06 PM
It would be right to say it is insensitive to talk about gun control soon after the events. Also policy should never be driven by people who are emotional charged. Instead it should be by cool level headed people who can look at everything objectively

I guess the issue is, we know they will NEVER look into it with any seriousness. I guess people aren't calling out for gun control just because of this event. They are calling for it still since the 'Sandy Hook massacre' and even prior.

But these mass shootings are pretty small scale

Today, 100odd people will die by a gun in the US (self inflicted or not). Yesterday was no different and tomorrow will be the same story. That's 100 different families grieving every day for someone's loss before their time. Nothing enlightened about that
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 08:44:00 PM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 08:48:50 PM
Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Edit. Ignore the obvious shill in the first reply.
(https://s1.postimg.org/41bsa3c64v/1509672080329.png)
There is no debate. I believe he was actually stopped by a citizen returning fire.

Don't mess with Texas.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 08:57:33 PM
Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Edit. Ignore the obvious shill in the first reply.
(https://s1.postimg.org/41bsa3c64v/1509672080329.png)
There is no debate. I believe he was actually stopped by a citizen returning fire.

Don't mess with Texas.

I see that my country has over twenty times the amount of fire arms related homicides than yours does. If it were up to you would you like to see the same level of access to guns in your country as I have in mine?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 09:02:48 PM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 05, 2017, 09:16:11 PM

Freedom > Security.


Very true. But it isn't absolute. You wouldn't want a citizen to have his own icbm program and you wouldn't want to declare butter knives illegal. So where is it reasonable to draw the line?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 05, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
I think the post from nipponanon above sums it up nicely. Pardon the profanity.
(https://s1.postimg.org/6sarl0av7z/20171106_132235.png)

Citizens don't need their own icbms, no.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 06, 2017, 03:07:43 AM
Just going to post this.
Please don't use people deaths to try and take away peoples constitutional rights.

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 04:45:21 AM
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1820163660
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 06, 2017, 04:55:23 AM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.
You are never truly "free". Not in any society that has ever functioned. In every society compromises have to be made to keep its people safe and to aid progress. Frankly the US situation is silly. It's pretty obvious that very few people would give a shit were it not for the gun companies that would lose their greatest market.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 06, 2017, 05:00:19 AM
So,  where are the claims of false flag?   Breathless claims of Soros planning to be selling metal detectors to churches? 

Forget the victims,  it's time to push some stupid right wing looney political agenda.  FFS.

Americans have lost the plot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 05:03:42 AM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.

It isn't up to me.
You are never truly "free". Not in any society that has ever functioned. In every society compromises have to be made to keep its people safe and to aid progress. Frankly the US situation is silly. It's pretty obvious that very few people would give a shit were it not for the gun companies that would lose their greatest market.
I agree.
Also, the 'muricans are not free in the sense of them getting hardcore propaganda and influence from the gun companies, so most of the 'muricans are not willing to accept stricter gun control, although most of them would only profit from it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: deadsirius on November 06, 2017, 05:34:29 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.


Which countries are you talking about?

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.  All our Constitution does is recognize this right and explicitly prohibit its infringement.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 06, 2017, 06:01:57 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.


Which countries are you talking about?

We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.  All our Constitution does is recognize this right and explicitly prohibit its infringement.
Gun ownership is not a fundamental human right.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 06, 2017, 06:05:28 AM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 06, 2017, 06:38:42 AM

Neither of us live in a country with a "constitutional right" to own or carry guns.


Which countries are you talking about?
Australia and the UK.  In fact pick any country other than the USA.

Quote
We not only have the constitutional right--we, like everyone, have the human right.
Presumably the "we" you are referring to is the USA?  You might not have noticed, but people from other countries also post on the interwebs, and they might have different ideas to you about what rights people possess.

Either way, human rights are just rights that groups of humans have agreed amongst themselves and then enshrined in law.  Nobody is born with the right to posses a particular weapon.

Do you think you are born with the right to posses (and use) a Abrams tank, a cruise missile system or a thermonuclear weapon?  If you don't (and you'd be a lunatic if you did) then we both agree that a civilisation should restrict which weapons it's citizenry should use, we just disagree on which weapons.  Nothing to do with fundamental rights.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 06, 2017, 08:19:57 AM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 09:41:33 AM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 06, 2017, 09:46:06 AM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 06, 2017, 11:01:10 AM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.
Replace cnn with MSM and Facebook and you probably are close. Something to the effect of "there is so much Christian bashing on aethiest, MSM, and Facebook sites that it led him to this." That's obviously wring as it was an inside job in order to sow discord in peoples' faith organizations and make them question whether they should attend church or not.  Or it was an inside job to drum up evangelical support by uniting Christians behind the boogeyman of atheism.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 12:25:37 PM
This was horrible.

Honestly the medias constant fear mongering and scare campaigns I feel are partly responsible for this.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2jg4fzm0rz/1509932274753m.jpg)
From his Facebook page.

More than cleverness, we need kindness. For all of the law is fulfilled in one word.

Our hearts thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and families.

what do you want to say with this picture?
that he was an atheist and that is why he did what he did?

I hope I am wrong with this interpretation of your post.

Not even Trump has said something that disgusting. 

My guess is that D1 is inferring that cnn has brainwashed him into massacring a church.

Trump is only saying that the guy was a deranged person and the whole thing does not have anything to do with gun control.
on the other hand he was last time very quick of yelling to close the border for Islamic person and emigrants.
why does he not yell to imprison all mentally instable persons.

I think there should be a stricter gun control of who is allowed to get a weapon.
it would even be good to implement a constant control if a person is still able to be allowed to have a gun.
like a checkup every 2 years if a person is still physical and mental able to handle a weapon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2017, 12:31:20 PM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.
You don't have very many people that you really care about, do you?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 12:37:11 PM

Trump is only saying that the guy was a deranged person and the whole thing does not have anything to do with gun control.
on the other hand he was last time very quick of yelling to close the border for Islamic person and emigrants.
why does he not yell to imprison all mentally instable persons.

I think there should be a stricter gun control of who is allowed to get a weapon.
it would even be good to implement a constant control if a person is still able to be allowed to have a gun.
like a checkup every 2 years if a person is still physical and mental able to handle a weapon.

No, no, they need the facts first!

https://www.theonion.com/nation-to-wait-for-more-facts-on-texas-shooting-before-1820186609
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2017, 12:42:35 PM
If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

He wasn't.
Quote
Following his prison sentence, Kelley was reduced in rank and released from the military with a bad conduct discharge in 2014.

A BCD doesn't necessarily have all of the same penalties as a dishonorable discharge.
https://military-law.lawyers.com/veterans-benefits/discharges-and-their-effect-on-veteran-benefits.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 06, 2017, 12:42:59 PM
If it was up to me yes.

Freedom > Security.
What about the freedom of living? Should the freedom of owning a gun be prioritised over the freedom of living?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 06, 2017, 12:47:11 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 06, 2017, 12:58:46 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

The point I was trying to make was that domestic violence is a very good predictor of someone whose likely to kill people.  A number of states actually have laws preventing people from getting firearms that have convictions of domestic violence.  Texas is among them.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

I don't have the article handy but I read that when this guy got his guns there was a form that asked him if he was legally allowed to own a firearm.  He checked 'yes'.  Awesome system we have there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 01:25:54 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.

I would feel more safe if I have a gun and there is a good gun control and I know that other person with guns are also gone thru the good gun control and can be trusted with a gun and they know how to handle it.

with an intruder you never know if that person has a gun or not, does anybody really think that a person that breaks in into private homes to steal stuff with the change that people are in it, care about gun law. they can have guns even if they are total illegal. that would not stop them for having a gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 06, 2017, 01:39:12 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.

I would feel more safe if I have a gun and there is a good gun control and I know that other person with guns are also gone thru the good gun control and can be trusted with a gun and they know how to handle it.

That a pretty massive IF even for a fantasy land.

Also, I might be fine today and able to pass any check with flying colours. Tomorrow my life could turn upside down, lose everything, spiral into a deep depression and drink/drug away all my problems. No one is going to say I have to return those guns even if I would massively fail the checks with my new situation

The best a background checks does is basically say, this person at some point in their life passed a background check. There is no requirement after that to conduct yourself in a manner that would continue to see you pass background checks.

Also, with guns so prevalent, who is to say someone who didn't pass the check just didn't go out and steal one?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 06, 2017, 01:43:16 PM
Guns don't kill people.
People kill people.
Ban people, problem fixed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 06, 2017, 01:58:13 PM
I have no interest in going one on one with an intruder in the middle of the night.
I assume she didn't enter my home because she was concerned about my safety.

I would not shoot at a shadow, but, anything less than her running out the door is going to be very bad for her.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 06, 2017, 01:58:59 PM
My own take.

I would feel a lot LESS safe with a gun if it meant everyone else potentially had a gun

I feel MORE safe, not having a gun, knowing the chances of anyone else having one is SFA.

If an intruder breaks into my house armed with a baseball bat, I can still have a chance of defending myself. If I am allowed to have a gun, chances are he will too and it wouldn't be a baseball bat anymore, but a gun I have to defend myself against.

I would feel more safe if I have a gun and there is a good gun control and I know that other person with guns are also gone thru the good gun control and can be trusted with a gun and they know how to handle it.

That a pretty massive IF even for a fantasy land.

Also, I might be fine today and able to pass any check with flying colours. Tomorrow my life could turn upside down, lose everything, spiral into a deep depression and drink/drug away all my problems. No one is going to say I have to return those guns even if I would massively fail the checks with my new situation

The best a background checks does is basically say, this person at some point in their life passed a background check. There is no requirement after that to conduct yourself in a manner that would continue to see you pass background checks.

Also, with guns so prevalent, who is to say someone who didn't pass the check just didn't go out and steal one?

therefore the repeated check if someone is able to have a gun.

easier to control than a total ban of guns.
what about hunter or security personal or sports?
if you want to ban fire arms what about bow and cross bow?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 06, 2017, 02:13:17 PM
if you want to ban fire arms what about bow and cross bow?
Seriously?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 06, 2017, 02:19:36 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 06, 2017, 02:34:25 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

How about second story windows?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 06, 2017, 07:16:03 PM
What gun control law would've stopped this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_mm-gunman-603am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.11be91c8ec12

Quote
he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child

There actually is a common sense gun law that might have prevented this. https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/

It's just not particular well enforced or implemented.

If he was dishonorably discharged then he is already in violation by owning a firearm. He was in illegal possession of the furearm he used.

The point I was trying to make was that domestic violence is a very good predictor of someone whose likely to kill people.  A number of states actually have laws preventing people from getting firearms that have convictions of domestic violence.  Texas is among them.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

I don't have the article handy but I read that when this guy got his guns there was a form that asked him if he was legally allowed to own a firearm.  He checked 'yes'.  Awesome system we have there.

Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 06, 2017, 07:18:42 PM
You are never free.

Thanks for your opinion, I disagree.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 06, 2017, 07:20:16 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2017, 07:26:37 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 06, 2017, 08:10:43 PM
A fire arm is an effective uni-tasker.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Canadabear on November 07, 2017, 04:03:09 AM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?

what about guns for hunter or sport.

as I said, I think the better thing to do would be to have a stricter gun control not a gun ban.
a gun ban would not help anything,
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 07, 2017, 04:33:55 AM
All this nonsense about gun control is idiotic.   Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA,  the problem isn't guns,  it's the American Psyche, it seems that it isn't mature enough to handle guns. 

How many people who own guns, think they are some kind of vigilante rambo?   Enough to be a problem it seems.

America has lost the plot.   Too many internet conspiracy nutters and lack of self control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 04:44:08 AM
All this nonsense about gun control is idiotic.   Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA,  the problem isn't guns,  it's the American Psyche, it seems that it isn't mature enough to handle guns. 
That's actually bullshit pro gun propaganda, at least for switzerland I'm rather sure that most of the people there do have guns only, without ammunition. Pretty sure it's the same for finland.

How many people who own guns, think they are some kind of vigilante rambo?   Enough to be a problem it seems.

America has lost the plot.   Too many internet conspiracy nutters and lack of self control.
'muricans are not among the smartest, it is known.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 04:55:28 AM
the problem isn't guns,  it's the American Psyche, it seems that it isn't mature enough to handle guns. 

 ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
You are never free.

Thanks for your opinion, I disagree.

Ok. Give me one example of a society where you THINK are truly free and I will tell you why you aren't. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 04:58:36 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 05:02:30 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
Uhmm, sauce?

This is what I found: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf)

Your statement seems to be completely false. And other surveys show roughly the same trend.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 05:16:36 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
Uhmm, sauce?

This is what I found: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf)

Your statement seems to be completely false. And other surveys show roughly the same trend.
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 05:25:36 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
Uhmm, sauce?

This is what I found: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf)

Your statement seems to be completely false. And other surveys show roughly the same trend.
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.

Huh?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 06:41:55 AM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?

what about guns for hunter or sport.
Where I live, most hunting is done with shotguns, bows and muzzle loaders.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 07:01:13 AM
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.
Huh? We are talking about civilian ownership of weapons, right? How is a survey, studying the civilian ownership of weapons, not saying anything about civilian ownership of weapons?

Edit: And I don't know what you mean by "citizens have military firearms at home.". Either you're implying that most people in these countries are in illegal possession of arms, or you're forgetting that each country has different views on which weapons are to be available to civilians or not.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 07, 2017, 07:06:44 AM
Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA
This isn't even remotely true.  Finland and Switzerland don't even top the guns per head for Europe and the rate is 4 times less than the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 07:14:29 AM
Your survey shows only civilian firearms. Switzerland and finland citizens have military firearms at home. So your survey says absolutely nothing.
Huh? We are talking about civilian ownership of weapons, right? How is a survey, studying the civilian ownership of weapons, not saying anything about civilian ownership of weapons?
Initial statement was
"Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA"
The study only took into account civilian fire arms.
I mentioned that the statistic is useless, because in switzerland (and I think finland, too) people are required to go into military and then keep their weapon at home, meaning that the amount of weapons per household in switzerland(/finland) is way higher than what your survey states.


Edit: And I don't know what you mean by "citizens have military firearms at home.". Either you're implying that most people in these countries are in illegal possession of arms, or you're forgetting that each country has different views on which weapons are to be available to civilians or not.
If you get a gun in the military, get to take it home, then you legally have a military gun at home. Your survey doesn't count those guns so it's not representative about how many guns there are per citizen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 07:29:21 AM
Initial statement was
"Finland and Switzerland have more guns per head of population than the USA"
The study only took into account civilian fire arms.
I mentioned that the statistic is useless, because in switzerland (and I think finland, too) people are required to go into military and then keep their weapon at home, meaning that the amount of weapons per household in switzerland(/finland) is way higher than what your survey states.
Civilian ownership doesn't mean that it was bought in a store necessarily. They mean ANY gun that is in civilian possession. So no, the survey IS representative of the amount of guns owned by civilians.


If you get a gun in the military, get to take it home, then you legally have a military gun at home. Your survey doesn't count those guns so it's not representative about how many guns there are per citizen.
If you're allowed to bring it home it's not military, it's civilian. You're misunderstanding the meaning of civilian guns in the context. The survey is speaking about civilian ownership of weapons, not commercial weapons targeted towards and sold to civilians. If a civilian is trained and then handed a gun by the military, that they then bring home, they will be a civilian in possession of a gun, and that gun will be counted as a civilian firearm by the survey.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 07:51:01 AM
Quote from: Master_Evar
If you're allowed to bring it home it's not military, it's civilian. You're misunderstanding the meaning of civilian guns in the context. The survey is speaking about civilian ownership of weapons, not commercial weapons targeted towards and sold to civilians. If a civilian is trained and then handed a gun by the military, that they then bring home, they will be a civilian in possession of a gun, and that gun will be counted as a civilian firearm by the survey.
Hmm, sounds reasonable, could be true.
Where can I find the definition used in the survey?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 07:52:39 AM
If you get a gun in the military, get to take it home, then you legally have a military gun at home. Your survey doesn't count those guns so it's not representative about how many guns there are per citizen.
If you're allowed to bring it home it's not military, it's civilian.
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 07:59:13 AM
Hmm, sounds reasonable, could be true.
Where can I find the definition used in the survey?
They don't really define it, but here is how they word it in the survey papers:
"Published estimates of Yemeni civilian firearm ownership (millions)"
"The 30 largest civilian firearm holdings (in descending order)"
"Estimates of German civilian firearm ownership (millions)"

Here's their take on the swiss ownership of weapons:
Quote
Box 2.5 Switzerland: public uncertainty and expert biases
Despite their cultural importance, the number of privately held Swiss firearms is extremely elusive. A recent survey found
that 26 per cent (1.95 million) of Swiss own at least one firearm (Gasser, 2006; also see Becker, 2001, p. 14). Published estimates
of total firearm ownership vary extraordinarily, ranging from 1.2 million to 12 million (see Table 2.6).
There is less room for disagreement over the nature of Swiss gun problems. This was poignantly demonstrated by the
Zug massacre of 2001, and in 2006 by the murder of former Swiss ski champion Corinne Rey-Bellet (Foulkes, 2006). Firearm
murders are only somewhat more common in Switzerland than most other European countries, but firearm suicide is significantly
more prevalent (Ajdacic-Gross et al., 2006). Recent research concluded that greater availability of firearms has increased
suicides by roughly 25 per cent in the last 20 years. Army-issued weapons are a major element in Switzerland’s suicides.
Although 60 per cent of Swiss firearm murderers use privately acquired weapons, 68 per cent of successful suicides use armyissued
guns (Ajdacic-Gross et al., 2006). As a proxy variable for firearm accessibility, Swiss suicide data supports higher estimates
of civilian ownership (Killias, 1993; Killias, Kesteren, and Rindlisbacher, 2001).
Traditionally, Swiss army reservists store their service weapons and sealed ammunition at home. The weapons can be
kept after their service obligation ends, an option chosen by 57–75 per cent of former soldiers, after paying a fee (Papacella,
2004; Vonarburg, 2006). This process accelerated in 2004, when the army began reducing its ranks by over 300,000 reservists,
a measure expected to release several hundred thousand additional high-powered rifles and pistols (Papacella, 2004).
One major area of disagreement is the number of modern military rifles in the hands of former reservists, their heirs, and
clients. According to Peter Hug, roughly 100,000 Sturmgewehr 57 and Sturmgewehr 90 automatic and semi-automatic rifles
have been released this way (Hug, 2006). Contrasting reports suggest that many more were released in 2004–06 alone (Mutter,
2006; Papacella, 2004). Even greater uncertainty surrounds privately purchased firearms. Hug (2006) estimates this category
at some 450,000. Other estimates can be explained only by assuming that there are between one and three million privately
acquired guns.
The lowest total estimates of 1.2–1.3 million private Swiss guns (Bachmann, 2002; SwissInfo, 2005) overlook major categories.
The highest estimates of 5–12 million are hard to justify without a clear breakdown. The Small Arms Survey presents Swiss
ownership at 2.3–4.5 million firearms, or 31–60 for every 100 residents.
The broad range of Swiss firearm estimates illuminates common biases of expert estimates. The perceptions of gun policy
experts anywhere, regardless of their convictions, are vulnerable to classic problems of cognitive screening and selective
attention, leading them to see what they expect to see (Bruner, 1957; Egeth, 1967). Higher numbers typically—but not always—
come from gun owners and police; lower numbers usually are from gun control advocates. Whether they devote more time to
shooting sports or responding to gun pathologies, owners tend to see more guns than non-owners. Because of their greater
proximity to firearms, the estimates of law enforcement officials and gun advocates must be taken seriously. The perspectives
of more distant observers can be equally valuable. Without comprehensive records or careful public polling, neither
perspective is sufficient. Whenever possible, both methods must be applied together.
So it definitely seems that they are taking into account weapons issued by the military to civilians.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 08:01:41 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 08:12:17 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:33:50 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

Awesome.  Let's abolish all laws since they're apparently completely powerless to prevent anything ever. 

Anarchy FTW!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:37:57 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:41:18 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/politics/trump-extreme-vetting-guns/index.html

"Extreme vetting for guns".

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 08:42:30 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
I'd have to research it, but I think they are reserve military but they don't have to give the weapon back. Not sure tho.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 08:52:19 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

Awesome.  Let's abolish all laws since they're apparently completely powerless to prevent anything ever. 

Anarchy FTW!

You are the only one in this thread who mentioned abolishing laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:54:37 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

Awesome.  Let's abolish all laws since they're apparently completely powerless to prevent anything ever. 

Anarchy FTW!

You are the only one in this thread who mentioned abolishing laws.

I'm highlighting your hyperbole with hyperbole.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:57:34 AM
If the military issued you the weapon, then it's a military weapon, regardless of where it lives.
I don't think the survey cares wether a weapon is intended for civilian or military use.

There's a difference between civilian-arms ownership and civilian arms-ownership. I'm pretty sure the survey leans towards the latter, as that makes more sense.
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
I'd have to research it, but I think they are reserve military but they don't have to give the weapon back. Not sure tho.
If they are reserve military, then it's most likely that they are responsible for the weapons that were issued but don't actually own them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 09:01:27 AM
But are they really civilians or are they active duty or reserve military?  Do they actually own the weapons or does the military want their weapons back after they're done with their military service?
When they're not at work they are technically civilians. And if I'm interpreting this (and the rest of what the survey says about switzerland) right:
"Recent research concluded that greater availability of firearms has increased
suicides by roughly 25 per cent in the last 20 years. Army-issued weapons are a major element in Switzerland’s suicides.
Although 60 per cent of Swiss firearm murderers use privately acquired weapons, 68 per cent of successful suicides use armyissued
guns (Ajdacic-Gross et al., 2006). As a proxy variable for firearm accessibility, Swiss suicide data supports higher estimates
of civilian ownership (Killias, 1993; Killias, Kesteren, and Rindlisbacher, 2001)."
Then at least reservists are counted as civilians. They are saying that "the greater availability of firearms" increased suicides, and that the majority of sucessful suicides are using military issued weapons. So they are counting military-issued weapons as part of the "greater availability of firearms", which doesn't make sense if you're talking about military access to firearms (of course the military has access to weapons) but it makes more sense if you're talking about civilian access to firearms. And most military-issued weapons belong to reservists.

And if it doesn't take into account active duty personnel it doesn't really matter, these people should have decent training and regular check-up. You can't really compare that to civilians who buys guns in stores. If they did take into account these people the survey would be less useful, because then we would be comparing people that have very different amounts of experience and training in small-arms.

And anyways, IF anyone thinks that these statistics are bogus then I expect them to have some statistics (with a source) of their own.

EDIT: Or in any other way demonstrate, not just by voicing their own opinion, that the statistics are false.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 09:21:23 AM
EDIT: Or in any other way demonstrate, not just by voicing their own opinion, that the statistics are false.
You quoted it yourself
Quote
Published estimates of total firearm ownership vary extraordinarily, ranging from 1.2 million to 12 million

What an accurate survey, only a range of factor 10 (1000%).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
What an accurate survey, only a range of factor 10 (1000%).
Context, ever learned that word? They are talking about other surveys, not their own:
Quote
Table 2.6 Estimates of civilian firearms ownership in Switzerland
Estimate Source
1.2 SwissInfo (2005)
1.3 Bachmann (2002)
l.0–3.0 Pescia (2006)
2.36 Hug (2006)
2.83–4.56 ProTell (2004)
5.0 Munday (1996, p. 12)
3.0–l2.0 Hess (1995)
2.3–4.5 2007 Small Arms Survey estimate

And use a little common sense. "Published surveys". At the time of them writing this survey, their own survey couldn't had been published, otherwise they wouldn't be writing still. So it obviously has to be talking about other surveys.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
What an accurate survey, only a range of factor 10 (1000%).
Context, ever learned that word? They are talking about other surveys, not their own:
Quote
Table 2.6 Estimates of civilian firearms ownership in Switzerland
Estimate Source
1.2 SwissInfo (2005)
1.3 Bachmann (2002)
l.0–3.0 Pescia (2006)
2.36 Hug (2006)
2.83–4.56 ProTell (2004)
5.0 Munday (1996, p. 12)
3.0–l2.0 Hess (1995)
2.3–4.5 2007 Small Arms Survey estimate

And use a little common sense. "Published surveys". At the time of them writing this survey, their own survey couldn't had been published, otherwise they wouldn't be writing still. So it obviously has to be talking about other surveys.
Bro, they didn't even make their own research, they just used already published papers to estimate the gun-per-citizen rate.

Basically a meta study. But the available data sucked.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 07, 2017, 09:35:15 AM
Bro, they didn't even make their own research, they just used already published papers to estimate the gun-per-citizen rate.

Basically a meta study. But the available data sucked.
Is that a problem? Comparing the results of multiple different studies and arriving at a new estimate should be quite accurate. Does it in any way make the estimation wrong, and do you have any sources that would contradict this survey?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 09:37:18 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 09:41:11 AM
Well I couldn't find any data that said that either Finland or Switzerland have more guns per capita than the USA anywhere, so we might just drop this argument. The most generous estimate for Switzerland I could find was 4.5 million guns, both private and military, which puts it at a bit more than 0.55 guns per capita, which is about half that of the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 10:03:24 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps we should actually try it.

Quote
The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/amp/


You can get 5 years iirc for perjury.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 10:09:50 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps we should actually try it.

Quote
The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/amp/


You can get 5 years iirc for perjury.

Ooooh, so there were only 254 false statements that they found out were false. I wonder how many false statements weren't found out. Like this case we're talking about here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 10:24:33 AM
Ooooh, so there were only 254 false statements that they found out were false.
No.  Only 254 false statements were considered for prosecution.  There were over half a million gun purchase denials (presumably for some sort of false statement).

I wonder how many false statements weren't found out. Like this case we're talking about here.
Impossible to know, but obviously too many.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 10:34:45 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

Thanks for pointing out that criminals don't care about laws.

Welcome to the NRA.

I'm sorry, the point is to have a system that makes SURE you can't have a gun if you don't meet the requirements, having one where any asshole can say "yes, I am allowed to have a gun" and then MAYBE, in some point in the future, if he's found out he may be tried for perjury just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps we should actually try it.

Quote
The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/amp/


You can get 5 years iirc for perjury.

Ooooh, so there were only 254 false statements that they found out were false. I wonder how many false statements weren't found out. Like this case we're talking about here.

Noooo, maybe you should read the article again.

Quote
only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution,

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 10:36:21 AM
Noooo, maybe you should read the article again.
Ain't nobody got time for that. If you have read it, just quote to important part.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 10:43:08 AM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 10:57:13 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 10:57:59 AM
Noooo, maybe you should read the article again.
Ain't nobody got time for that. If you have read it, just quote to important part.

I did. Twice
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 11:01:19 AM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 11:08:16 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 11:18:38 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.

That's way too heavy handed. But why did it not work in this case exactly?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 11:45:20 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.

That's way too heavy handed. But why did it not work in this case exactly?

That will be an interesting  investigation.
It seems that the US government didn't tell the US government something the US government is required to do by the US government.
 :)

The military didn't report him to the atf as required.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
That will be an interesting  investigation.
It seems that the US government didn't tell the US government something the US government is required to do by the US government.
 :)

Oh this is just great. Way to go.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 11:55:08 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.
It was the Air Force that screwed up by not entering his conviction into the national database like they were supposed to.  If they had, then the background check that was performed would have flagged him and he wouldn't have been able to buy the guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 11:58:20 AM
But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

Probably. I think he bought it less than a month ago, I'm pretty sure he bought it specifically to kill them. He didn't care enough about the "don't mass murder people" law, what makes you think he'd care for the "don't lie for a gun permit" law? The point is to have a system where lying wouldn't have worked and completely prevent this altogether instead of just applying a penalty to it.

We have that system now, he should have been  refused even if he had lied under penalty of death.
It was the Air Force that screwed up by not entering his conviction into the national database like they were supposed to.  If they had, then the background check that was performed would have flagged him and he wouldn't have been able to buy the guns.

Well after this I hope they start taking things more seriously.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 12:02:40 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 12:06:55 PM
That will be an interesting  investigation.
It seems that the US government didn't tell the US government something the US government is required to do by the US government.
 :)

Oh this is just great. Way to go.

Why me?   ;)

There may be some middle men, but basically that's the reason.

I wouldn't be surprised if more examples turn up that should have been reported by other agencies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 12:55:56 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.
Actually, it's more like the NRA membership supports common sense gun regulations and background checks.  It's the NRA leadership that's opposed to any sort of gun regulation.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/17/is-the-gun-lobby-invincible/nra-members-vs-nra-leaders
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 01:12:31 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.

Example?


One more gun seems to have been the answer in this case no?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 01:13:13 PM

Again, perhaps we should  try enforcing laws designed to stop people who by due process have had their right restricted.

In this particular case lying should not have worked because his crimes were not reported as the law requires.

But, a good question to ask is if this nut actually knew someone who did time for lying on the form would he have even tried?

It doesn't matter what the penalty is if they know it's not enforced.
Kind of like going a few mph faster than the speed limit. You know it's against the law but you do it because you also know the police don't bother.

Well yes.  But therein lies the rub.  The issue is so politicized that if you're a Republican then you must deflect at all costs or you'll get lynched by the NRA.
You do know that the NRA supports background checks and has called for more prosecution of those who are denied right?

I was not aware of that.  Maybe someone should inform Trump of that.  He seems to think more guns are the answer.

Example?


One more gun seems to have been the answer in this case no?

Or one less.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 01:24:04 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?

Example where Trump seems to think more guns are the answer?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 07, 2017, 01:30:07 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?

One that entirely bans this class of guns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 01:31:30 PM
Example where Trump seems to think more guns are the answer?

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-hundreds-more-may-have-died-in-1510051281-htmlstory.html

And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?


http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

The law already exists.  They've just done a shit job at enforcing it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 04:13:30 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?

One that entirely bans this class of guns?

And make millions of law abiding citizens criminals overnight and deny them their right to bear arms.

And when some nut uses a bolt action rifle to murder kneeling ducks in a church?  Ban them too?
You don't have to answer that it's pretty clear.

Example where Trump seems to think more guns are the answer?

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-hundreds-more-may-have-died-in-1510051281-htmlstory.html

So trump being happy that there was an armed citizen across the street means he thinks more guns are the answer?
TDS rears its ugly head.

Quote
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?


http://lawcenter.giffords.org/domestic-violence-and-firearms-in-texas/

The law already exists.  They've just done a shit job at enforcing it.

I rest my case.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 07, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
Ban rocks and sticks too. They can do a lot of damage or even kill.

Ban assault trucks, high capacity gas tanks and fully automatic transmissions!!

Common sense assault truck laws now!!!!
Trucks have many uses other than killing people.  What uses do assault rifles have other than killing people?

Actually it wasn't an assault rifle for one. Secondly, true assualt rifles were designed to sustain youself against an attack. Thirdly, the same type of rifle that was used in the shooting was used against the shooter himself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 07, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

The Air Force failed in adding the criminal conduct to his background. So it's not a matter of more gun laws but rather the lack of enfircement of current laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?
In this case, the law already exists (domestic abuse conviction).  It was just a matter of the conviction not being properly reported to the appropriate database.  Again, the conviction should have shown up in the background check and stopped the sale.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 07, 2017, 05:07:53 PM
And what law would you suggest that would have made it one less?
In this case, the law already exists (domestic abuse conviction).  It was just a matter of the conviction not being properly reported to the appropriate database.  Again, the conviction should have shown up in the background check and stopped the sale.
My point exactly.
I think DNO may have been under the impression that background checks simply rely on the questions asked.

They don't and heads should roll for the failure to have this nut in the database.
He was breaking the law for simply entering a place he knew had guns if I'm not mistaken. I don't think he was supposed to be around guns much less own one.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 06:22:47 PM
They don't and heads should roll for the failure to have this nut in the database.

Oh, they know and they're already working on it although the MSM will likely move on long before they formally announce the results.
Quote from: http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/11/06/texas-shooter-should-have-been-banned-from-buying-guns-heres-who-screwed-up/
What did the Air Force say about this?

“This was mishandled by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, where Kelley was serving when he was arrested,” Bowman reported.

“An investigation is now underway, and the Air Force is taking it very seriously, said the source.”
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:15:56 PM
Too many internet conspiracy nutters.

(https://s1.postimg.org/7ndatdler3/85gnc6.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:17:09 PM
I'd love someone to talk about the percentage of these shooters on SSRIs.

It's nearly like big pharma is run for profit and not for the health of the people.

Wait....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:18:26 PM
Such a clever boy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:26:06 PM
Do you think it's a problem? Or are you just here to derail discussion about Big Pharma and Big oil?
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.

I think we should reevaluate the treatment of mental health conditions. SSRIs should be an absolute last resort when family community exercise good food and love don't work.

Typo.
Phoneposting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 07, 2017, 08:30:37 PM
Do you think it's a problem? Or are you just here to derail discussion about Big Pharma and Big oil?
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.

I think we should reevaluate the treatment of mental health conditions. SSRIs should be an absolute last resort when family community exercise good food and love don't work.

Typo.

Your second statement I agree with. Your first not so much.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
In d1's world, everything is either black or white. There are no grey areas. Because that would be confusing as fuck.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:40:42 PM
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
Citation from a credible source please.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:44:45 PM
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
Citation from one of the media outlets owned by the federal reserve please.

You win again.
The TV is the true measure of the truth. I'll chase up some statistical data later

Busy now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:46:22 PM
There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
Citation from one of the media outlets owned by the federal reserve please.

You win again.
The TV is the true measure of the truth. I'll chase up some statistical data later

Busy now.
Okay, so you admit that you have no credible sources.  Good to know.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 07, 2017, 08:48:12 PM
There is a chicken or the egg conversation to be had about mass shooters being on medications.  You'll claim it's the medicine causing them to do this because evil of this sort is not in human nature because love. I don't think the answer is so cut and dry.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:48:25 PM
Why ask me when you can turn on your TV and watch news owned by big pharma about big pharma?

They would report honestly about themselves. It's not like they want to make money.

Wait....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:50:35 PM
D1, all simple answers, all the time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 08:52:47 PM
No simple answers here.

I think we should re-evaluate giving SSRI's to people who just feel blue.

The side effects can be quite extreme.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 07, 2017, 08:54:28 PM
Why ask me when you can turn on your TV and watch news owned by big pharma about big pharma?

They would report honestly about themselves. It's not like they want to make money.

Wait....
Who do you think would report honestly about anti-depressants and mass shootings?  I'm not kidding.  Who do you trust to tell the truth and why do you trust them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on November 07, 2017, 08:54:36 PM
Yeah, no. Indeed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 09:02:09 PM
Why ask me when you can turn on your TV and watch news owned by big pharma about big pharma?

They would report honestly about themselves. It's not like they want to make money.

Wait....
Who do you think would report honestly about anti-depressants and mass shootings?  I'm not kidding.  Who do you trust to tell the truth and why do you trust them?

People who have no vested interest in what they are doing. I would accept police statistics.

I wouldn't trust google to tell me about their privacy policy for instance.

The people I trust most don't take credit or seek a reward for telling the truth.

We are everywhere.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 07, 2017, 09:03:54 PM
No simple answers here.

I think we should re-evaluate giving SSRI's to people who just feel blue.

The side effects can be quite extreme.

Walked into a doctors office one day. Feeling a bit run down from the many hours doing 2 jobs. Walked out with a prescription for an SSRI anti depressant (maybe Zoloft) and Valium.

Read the side effects for the SSRI was weight gain and suicidal ideation amongst other crap. Figured 'F#&k this shit!' And never bothered with it. The medication is also designed in such a way that once you take it, you MUST keep taking it otherwise it can really screw you if you decide you've had enough.

I get the feeling that doctors get bonuses or commissions if they meet quotas for prescribing 'x' amount of medication. It makes it difficult to trust they are doing what's best for me if they have a personal stake in the advice or prescriptions they give.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 07, 2017, 09:13:34 PM
I get the feeling that doctors get bonuses or commissions if they meet quotas for prescribing 'x' amount of medication. It makes it difficult to trust they are doing what's best for me if they have a personal stake in the advice or prescriptions they give.

This.

PM me anytime if you fancy a chat.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 07, 2017, 10:24:59 PM
I think we should re-evaluate giving SSRI's to people who just feel blue.
Docs that are giving ssri's to people that don't really need them are bad docs. Simple as that.
(also: people are lazy. They rather take the "wonder pill" that makes them feel good, instead of doing sports, eating healthy, quit smoking etc.)

Walked into a doctors office one day. Feeling a bit run down from the many hours doing 2 jobs. Walked out with a prescription for an SSRI anti depressant (maybe Zoloft) and Valium.
Pretty sure that's not enough indication for prescribing you an antidepressant. Just a lazy doc.

I get the feeling that doctors get bonuses or commissions if they meet quotas for prescribing 'x' amount of medication.
Where I live, they don't, and that's good.

There's a clear link between anti-depressants and mass shootings.
The link probably is, that depressed people have a higher tendency to go for a mass shooting, and depressed people have a higher chance of using/having used an antidepressant. But who knows, perhaps some antidepressants have the side effects of lowering your inhibition threshold.
Anyway, source still needed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 04:27:12 AM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

The Air Force failed in adding the criminal conduct to his background. So it's not a matter of more gun laws but rather the lack of enfircement of current laws.

How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 08, 2017, 05:05:01 AM

It's nearly like big pharma is run for profit and not for the health of the people.
All companies are run for profits.  Its called capitalism.  They are run for the benefits of shareholders - they have no other reason to exist.

What do you suggest as the solution?  Nationalisation is one option.  Deep and heavily enforced regulation is another.

Neither of which has any chance in the USA right now.  Nationalisation is socialism, and socialism is bad m'kay.  And the current regime is tearing up regulations all over the place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: hoppy on November 08, 2017, 05:14:25 AM
They really need to ban mass shooting hoaxes and cut back on medications,both would reallyhelp a lot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 08, 2017, 05:57:54 AM
They are run for the benefits of shareholders - they have no other reason to exist.
I disagree. Not everyone is driven by purely capitalistic reasons.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2017, 06:10:30 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 06:45:10 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on November 08, 2017, 07:27:13 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The security of a free State.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 09:03:53 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The security of a free State.

I thought you had an oversized and overfunded army for that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 08, 2017, 10:07:01 AM
They are run for the benefits of shareholders - they have no other reason to exist.
I disagree. Not everyone is driven by purely capitalistic reasons.
I never said they were - that would be silly.

However publicly traded companies, such as pharmaceutical firms, only exist to provide benefit to their shareholders.  In fact they are legally obliged to maximise the return on investment to their investors.  Everyone else can get fucked.  That's the system.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2017, 11:32:38 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
The imminent zombie apocalypse.  Or all out nuclear war with North Korea.  Whichever comes first.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 08, 2017, 12:14:43 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
The imminent zombie apocalypse.  Or all out nuclear war with North Korea.  Whichever comes first.

The zombie apocalypse I understand, but why would a war with North Korea require an average hick in some small American town need a semi automatic for?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 08, 2017, 12:21:31 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?
The imminent zombie apocalypse.  Or all out nuclear war with North Korea.  Whichever comes first.

The zombie apocalypse I understand, but why would a war with North Korea require an average hick in some small American town need a semi automatic for?

Don't underestimate them, they gonna shoot the missile down themselfes!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 08, 2017, 12:31:09 PM
Well they did defeat those hurricanes eventually. Good thing you guys had those guns you could shoot at the storm. I see your point
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 12:55:15 PM
Once he fills out the form, they run it through NCIS. Any information that doesn't line up to his answers can delay or outright deny him. Depending on what he answered, he could be charged with perjury.

OOOH, THAT WILL PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE NOW!

The Air Force failed in adding the criminal conduct to his background. So it's not a matter of more gun laws but rather the lack of enfircement of current laws.

How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?

So you want to ban pistols and double action revolvers that emulate semi automatic fire?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 12:57:54 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

The VTech shooter used ten round magazines and pistols and he committed the largest mass shooting until Orlando.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2017, 12:59:00 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 12:59:39 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 01:01:10 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2017, 01:04:05 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Pistols seem to be used in quite a few cases of homicide and also gang related violence. Pistols can be easily concealed while it'd be more difficult to conceal a long arm. Thus, if gangsters can't hide their weapon, they may be less likely to openly carry one reducing homicides in the process.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 08, 2017, 01:05:30 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 08, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Pistols seem to be used in quite a few cases of homicide and also gang related violence. Pistols can be easily concealed while it'd be more difficult to conceal a long arm. Thus, if gangsters can't hide their weapon, they may be less likely to openly carry one reducing homicides in the process.

Yeah, I've been wondering about this also. The Swiss were mentioned a while back. I wonder if the those military firearms are all rifles.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 04:47:24 PM
Banning pistols might actually go a long way toward reducing homicides.

I would like to see evidence.
Pistols seem to be used in quite a few cases of homicide and also gang related violence. Pistols can be easily concealed while it'd be more difficult to conceal a long arm. Thus, if gangsters can't hide their weapon, they may be less likely to openly carry one reducing homicides in the process.

Has any country had their homicide rate go down because they banned handguns?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 04:50:17 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on November 08, 2017, 06:07:23 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
So 60% of mass shootings are carried out by pistols, yet banning pistols wouldn't reduce homocides? That sounds fishy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 08, 2017, 07:07:07 PM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
So 60% of mass shootings are carried out by pistols, yet banning pistols wouldn't reduce homocides? That sounds fishy.

Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list. In fact guns sales have gone up while violent crime (including murder) has gone down. I'm not saying it's because we have so many guns but I am saying that this goes against the myth of more guns equal more crime.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2017, 07:32:35 PM
Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list.
To which top ten list are you referring?  Mass shootings?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 08, 2017, 10:18:20 PM
Here we can see the average american citizen [3:56]:

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 04:26:08 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.
So 60% of mass shootings are carried out by pistols, yet banning pistols wouldn't reduce homocides? That sounds fishy.

Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list. In fact guns sales have gone up while violent crime (including murder) has gone down. I'm not saying it's because we have so many guns but I am saying that this goes against the myth of more guns equal more crime.

This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 04:28:52 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.

Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on November 09, 2017, 04:53:20 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 05:26:45 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:33:23 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Don't forget muzzle loaders. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:34:13 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 05:35:53 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 05:37:12 AM
Because it has never been observed in other countries. We have the highest number of guns in the world yet we don't even make the top ten list.
To which top ten list are you referring?  Mass shootings?
DD asked for murder rates in general. However, statistically speaking, we don't even make the top ten in mass shootings either.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1s&v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:40:47 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!

I don't think you or I should belittle the worst mass shooting in American history.  If you want to discuss this important subject without standing on people's graves, I would be more than happy.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 05:42:32 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 05:43:43 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!

I don't think you or I should belittle the worst mass shooting in American history.  If you want to discuss this important subject without standing on people's graves, I would be more than happy.
Yeah you're right, let's respect all the people hurt at the vegas shooting by buying semi-automatic guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 05:44:41 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?

How common are wild west shootouts in modern America?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 05:46:06 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:52:03 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?
Yeah, exactely, for example against a few thousands angry, bad people at a country concert?!

I don't think you or I should belittle the worst mass shooting in American history.  If you want to discuss this important subject without standing on people's graves, I would be more than happy.
Yeah you're right, let's respect all the people hurt at the vegas shooting by buying semi-automatic guns.

Perhaps you should find some childrens graves to preach off of, while you are at it?  I thought that was the favorite place for bleeding heart liberals to push their political adgendas.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 05:55:31 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 05:56:45 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier. 

What if you have to defend yourself against a lot of badguys all at once?

How common are wild west shootouts in modern America?

Cowboys are not known for their semi-autos, now are they?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 06:00:09 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.

At least I don't try to soap-box by pointing at dead childred, you sick f*ck.  Are you sure your name is not Piers Morgan?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 06:01:09 AM
How about enforcing current laws PLUS new laws, such as prohibiting sale of semi automatics?
I'm all for common sense gun laws, but I don't think that semiautomatics should be banned outright.  However, I can see a case for limiting/banning high capacity magazines.

What's a use for semiautomatics that makes up for the risk?

The allowence of quick follow up shots in case the furst round didn't stopped the threats or in the case of multiple threats.

How many people can a gunner kill with a pistol or a shotgun and how many can he kill with a semi automatic rifle before he is neutralized/out of ammo?

Pistols ARE semi automatic and in fact, the third largest mass shooting was done with ten round magazines and pistols, 60% of all mass shootings are done with pistols, the Navy yard shooter used a shotgun.

Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.

Pistols are a sub-catagory of handguns. There are single and double action revolvers and flintlock pistols. Most modern handguns are either semi auto or double action which elumate semi auto fire.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 09, 2017, 06:03:12 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.

At least I don't try to soap-box by pointing at dead childred, you sick f*ck.  Are you sure your name is not Piers Morgan?
As I said.
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 06:04:29 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 06:05:12 AM
...
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.

At least I don't try to soap-box by pointing at dead childred, you sick f*ck.  Are you sure your name is not Piers Morgan?
As I said.
Your answers only proof your cognitive dissonance.


So, your name is Piers Morgan?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 06:06:33 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...

Please provide your "proof" and there is no benefit to cigarettes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 06:08:31 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 08:44:41 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi.

But they're still allowed in the US, right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 08:52:55 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

I don't want them banned from the police! In the vast majority of self defense situations, a couple of shots at most are enough. Actually shots aren't even required in most of them, just the threat of the weapon is enough. Even in cases where there are many attackers, I can't think of many scenarios where they wouldn't just stop after someone is shot or even at the threat of a gun, unless they also have guns and you have a fucking western shootout. How many of these situations happen every year and how many people die in mass shootings?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 08:56:50 AM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...

Please provide your "proof" and there is no benefit to cigarettes.

Cigarettes have the same benefit as hunting. Also I don't see what the benefit of the cigarettes has to do with my argument.

The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 09, 2017, 09:34:10 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi.

But they're still allowed in the US, right?

I am allowed to buy a semi, but not a full auto AK.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 09, 2017, 10:35:49 AM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

Not to mention that, for the most part in most of the world,  AK 47s are full auto, not semi.

But they're still allowed in the US, right?

I am allowed to buy a semi, but not a full auto AK.

Well there you go.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 09, 2017, 05:38:38 PM
I don't want them banned from the police!

Jeez DNO just go to parliament, pull your pants down bend over and spread your cheeks. ""Please daddy""

It's too dangerous fot private citizens to have internet access too because of the conspiracy theories online.

Only police should have access to the interent.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 09, 2017, 05:57:14 PM
Every time there's a shooting we have the gun debate. I wish, instead of the how, we could figure out the why.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 09, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
Every time there's a shooting we have the gun debate.
It just a shame that the gun debate isn't happening in DC.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 09, 2017, 06:27:51 PM
I don't think it would do any good for them to debate it. They can't do it without throwing in a bunch of bullshit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 09, 2017, 07:23:34 PM
At least it would be better than the perpetual "it's too soon" BS they keep using.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 09, 2017, 07:31:40 PM
Well is it still too soon to talk about what happened at Sandy Hook and the lessons we could learn from it? Or the plenty of other school rampages in the past? Or do we just get mass shootings scheduled every so often so that the 'It's too soon' can always be churned out and the conversation never happens  :( :-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 10:20:31 PM
Wait, what do you call the non-semi automatic handguns? My English is failing me.
I think that's only single-action revolvers. All other handguns use the recoil to chamber a new bullet (and double-action revolvers chamber the bullet with the press of the trigger, before firing).

Yeah, that's the one. Revolvers. Semi automatics and high capacity magazines aren't very useful for self defense and you can hunt just fine without them. Like seriously, who hunts with an AK-47? On the other hand, they make killing a lot of people much easier.

What are you talking about? Pistols are perfect for self defense. Ifthe badguy wasn't stopped by the first round or you have multiple attackers then you have the ammo to sustain yourself in the fight. It's the same reason why police have the very same pistols ypu want to ban.

I don't want them banned from the police! In the vast majority of self defense situations, a couple of shots at most are enough. Actually shots aren't even required in most of them, just the threat of the weapon is enough. Even in cases where there are many attackers, I can't think of many scenarios where they wouldn't just stop after someone is shot or even at the threat of a gun, unless they also have guns and you have a fucking western shootout. How many of these situations happen every year and how many people die in mass shootings?

People defend themselves with firearms at the least 100,00 times per year. At the same time less people die from rifles as a whole than by hands and feet. And while many times, the mere presence of a gun deters an attack, I'm not depending on that to defend myself. Plus, police face the same threats as you and I. they just face it more often. And with the recent shooting, the guy who stopped the shooter with his AR nearly ran out of rounds by the end of it all.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 09, 2017, 10:21:53 PM


This is like saying "We smoke more cigarretes than [insert third world country] but we live longer" and then, after someone discovers a cure to all heart diseases you say "cigarette sales have gone up, but life expectancy has also increased" and use that as an argument for how smoking doesn't reduce life expectancy.

That would only be true if guns have been proven to be a direct link to crime rates and have no beneficial purpose to it. Neither of which is true.

But they are proven to have a direct link to crime rates... And cigarettes still have a "beneficial purpose" to them...

Please provide your "proof" and there is no benefit to cigarettes.

Cigarettes have the same benefit as hunting. Also I don't see what the benefit of the cigarettes has to do with my argument.
The second amendment isn't about hunting.
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2017, 12:20:10 AM
The problem is not the tool of choice, it's the the insane person behind the tool.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 10, 2017, 02:23:55 AM
Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.
Almost impossible to compare - how violent crime is defined and recorded varies wildly from country to country.

However the USA does have an intentional homicide rate 5 times higher than the UK.

Quote
People defend themselves with firearms at the least 100,00 times per year
Got any more made up stats?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 10, 2017, 02:30:13 AM
Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.
Almost impossible to compare - how violent crime is defined and recorded varies wildly from country to country.

However the USA does have an intentional homicide rate 5 times higher than the UK.

Quote
People defend themselves with firearms at the least 100,00 times per year
Got any more made up stats?

If you're subscribed to Bloomberg (anti gun site)then you can read this.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense

And if you're not subscribed to Bloomberg you can read this.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/myth-3-25-million-defensive-gun-uses-each-year-cant-be-accurate
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 10, 2017, 04:54:48 AM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2017, 05:21:44 AM

How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun?



Depends on the vulnerability of the chosen victims.
With a big sharp knife one could probably ace 100 kids in 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 10, 2017, 05:37:40 AM
I'd recommend a chainsaw for that kind of job.  You could end up with repetitive strain injury, or something equally horrific, otherwise.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 10, 2017, 07:48:34 AM
I'd recommend a chainsaw for that kind of job.  You could end up with repetitive strain injury, or something equally horrific, otherwise.

XD
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2017, 11:46:42 AM
Why not shorten the season and impose a two person bag limit?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 10, 2017, 08:32:12 PM
The problem is not the tool of choice, it's the the insane person behind the tool.

In spite of sounding obvious, this is actually closer to the the mark that anything else anyone has said on the topic so far.

A proportion of the United States population is not just gun crazy,  they are literally crazy.   Add the two together. What's the result?

Not that the USA has a monopoly on crazy,  far from it, every country has it's looney fringes,  Australia has people like dipstick and shifty,  god help us if they ever got their hands on automatic weapons. 


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 10, 2017, 09:16:01 PM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html

And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 10, 2017, 11:45:34 PM
Good post Luke.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 10, 2017, 11:48:35 PM
Australia has people like dipstick and shifty,  god help us if they ever got their hands on a computer with internet access.

I'm afraid it's far too late for that.

Your agenda here has been completely exposed. Why are you still allowed to post here with that account? You only supporters are Crutonius, Bullwinkle, Symptom, jroa and SCG.

Your operation has been exposed. I thought we were past this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 11, 2017, 01:01:02 AM
Australia has people like dipstick and shifty,  god help us if they ever got their hands on a computer with internet access.

I'm afraid it's far too late for that.

Your agenda here has been completely exposed. Why are you still allowed to post here with that account? You only supporters are Crutonius, Bullwinkle, Symptom, jroa and SCG.

Your operation has been exposed. I thought we were past this.

Meh,  I see that your trolling has deteriorated to falsifying quotations.  Pretty much confirms all I ever thought about your personal honesty and integrity. 

You fail even the most basic test of integrity.   Lying scum that you have proven yourself to be.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:07:58 AM
It's funny how no one can quote me lying tho hey.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 11, 2017, 01:15:55 AM
It's funny how no one can quote me lying tho hey.

I just did.  Are you really that dishonest?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:27:40 AM
I'll let you in on a little secret. The post quotation is actually a url also and you can click on it. It takes you back to the original post made.

You made some ridiculous ad hominem against myself and shifter and I responded in turn. I'm actually a very good shot with a rifle and better than average with a handgun.

However my weapon of choice is a computer and the battlefield has always been teh internets. You and your handlers and more scared of free speech than guns. You're not even shilling to take away all guns, just from "crazy people" which today could be substituted for someone who disagrees with the MSM news.

Lying would be insisting you said something you didn't. Like crutonius did concerning MaNaeSWolf. Click the post to see your original, it's still there and it really does work.

Look at what I did to your entire team here mainly with a smartphone and mobile data.
You and I both know which weapon you'd prefer us having.

Quote from: Kevin Shipp CIA whistleblower
They know we have the internet and they are scared, trust me.

You are right to be afraid.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 11, 2017, 01:40:32 AM
I'll let you in on a little secret. The post quotation is actually a url also and you can click on it. It takes you back to the original post made.

You made some ridiculous ad hominem against myself and shifter and I responded in turn. I'm actually a very good shot with a rifle and better than average with a handgun.

However my weapon on choice is a computer and the battlefield has always been teh internets. You and your handlers and more scared of free speech than guns. You're not even shilling to take away all guns, just from "crazy people" which today could be substituted for someone who disagrees with the MSM news.

Lying would be insisting you said something you didn't. Like crutonius did concerning MaNaeSWolf. Click the post to see your original, it's still there and it really does work.

Look at what I did to your entire team here mainly with a smartphone and mobile data.
You and I both know which weapon you'd prefer us having.

Quote from: Kevin Shipp CIA whistleblower
They know we have the internet and they are scared, trust me.

You are right to be afraid.

When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.  Shifty is the anti gun proponent. 

Half the crap you post makes no sense, the other half involves delusions that there is a conspiracy against you personally, and you are some kind of 4chan anon keyboard warrior,  you seriously need to get help, you are only one step away from madness.

But keep posting, I get a chuckle every so often from your ignorance.

BTW,  Just so you know, for future reference, mass murderers are by definition crazy insane.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sceptimatic on November 11, 2017, 01:43:44 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:46:19 AM
Jeez scepti.
Totalitarian much?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 01:48:55 AM
You're not even shilling to take away all guns,
When have I advocated for gun control?

Wait, what?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sceptimatic on November 11, 2017, 01:51:47 AM
Jeez scepti.
Totalitarian much?
Nope, just a modern day man trying to live the life I have with as little fuss as possible in terms of physical fights that gain no traction and become pointless energy wasting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on November 11, 2017, 02:35:17 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sceptimatic on November 11, 2017, 02:39:50 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
No need for that.
Imagine the drop in crime if people were not able to get away with using tools designed to kill en-masse.
Just take away the tit for tat potential of that and the make punishments fit the crimes from those that flout the laws.
No need to cut off arms and legs.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 11, 2017, 02:54:17 AM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html
You do realize that was a gang, not just one person, right?

Quote
And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
Good, compare that to Sandy Hook.

Quote
Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Neither show up. Meanwhile I found this which contains many sources: https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com

Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 11, 2017, 02:57:38 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

Yeah, because the two are totally comparable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on November 11, 2017, 07:00:29 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.

lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 11, 2017, 11:17:10 AM
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on November 11, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?

Apparently not in the minds of quite a few. I feel that the nra has done a masterful job in convincing people that any regulations on firearms are always a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to confiscating everyone's guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 11, 2017, 12:00:24 PM
If you talk with NRA members, you will often find that the leadership does not properly represent the members attitudes towards things like universal background checks and common sense regulations.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 11, 2017, 01:07:29 PM
The people should stop giving the NRA their money. I hang up on those mofos every time they call.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on November 11, 2017, 04:37:44 PM
When have I advocated for gun control?   I am actually pro gun ownership.
Interesting.  I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.  Or is responsible gun ownership not a thing?

Context is everything.  The statement I made was to correct disputes assertion that I was "shilling to take peoples guns". 

When you grow up in a rural environment,  you realize guns are just a useful tool, nothing more nothing less.  If I see a wild dog pack attacking lambs,  I'm going to be reaching for a rifle.

That has nothing to do with people going crazy with semi automatic weapons and murdering innocents. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 05:41:34 AM
Quote
The proof is that many crimes would be extremely hard to commit without guns, plus they facilitate "spontaneous" crimes that happen because someone was pissed or drunk or high.

Evidence? England has higher violent crime rate than we do.

1) It should be logically obvious how these crimes would be facilitated. How many people can a rampaging person kill with a knife vs with a gun? How easy is to "spontaneously" kill someone unarmed vs with a gun?

A lot actually. In fact, the largest knife attack beated our largest mass shooting untill Orlando.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570996/At-27-dead-109-injured-gang-knife-wielding-men-attack-train-station-China.html
You do realize that was a gang, not just one person, right?

At ten people, that equals to about 3 people per person. Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder. Someone with a truck killed over 80 people in France.

Quote
And here's another attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
Good, compare that to Sandy Hook.[/quote]

Or Nice, France?
Quote
Quote
Quote
2) Source for England having a higher violent crime rate? Most of the sources I found is that it is actually much higher in the US.

Here you go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/neIs/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

They used this study which I'm not sure if it'll show up.
http://www.heuni.fi/Satellite?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobcol=urldata&SSURIapptype=BlobServer&SSURIcontainer=Default&SSURIsession=false&blobheadervalue1=inline;%20filename=Hakapaino_final_07042010.pdf&SSURIsscontext=Satellite%20Server&blobwhere=1266335656647&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&ssbinary=true&blobheader=application/pdf

Neither show up. Meanwhile I found this which contains many sources: https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com

Ok, I'll give you that for now. But that isn't proof that guns are the reason for our crime rate.
Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 12, 2017, 08:52:38 AM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?
[/quote]

Well when gun advocates make that claim, they usually reference a couple of exceptions, for instance Chicago, or Maryland, but if you look at the total, it paints a different picture. First of all you have to consider the fact that some states have passed very strict gun laws specifically because of the issues they were facing with crime, while others haven't felt the need to do so because of the low violent crime rates. "Strict" gun laws is something that is hard to gauge, so what I did was compile the number of provisions every state had to regulate firearms and find the mean, split them into two groups (strict laws, loose laws) and use this board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
to determine the average murder rate in these states. Now I did fuck something up because I ended up with a couple more states in the "strict" category, but that shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's not a perfect way to gauge how strict the laws are, but it was the easiest way without making things too complex.

Here are the states of the "loose" category:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming.

Here are the "strict" states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusets, Michigan, Minnessota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, Iowa.

The average murder rate for the loose states was 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJ4ZFWc.png)

The average murder rate for the strict states was 5 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/9dFBqcV.png)

So on first inspection, it seems like they do indeed have a very slightly higher murder rate (it's actually pretty close, but there is a difference). However, notice how there's a very extreme spike in the value chart of the strict states. That's DC. No idea why it has that high a murder rate, but it doesn't really fit very well with the rest of the chart. Dropping it gives a murder rate of 4.2 for the "strict" states, which is lower than the "loose" states. Now you may or may not accept that, but these results show that at best they're about equal, they definitely don't contribute to the higher crime rates. And if you look at the states with a murder rate above 8 per 100,000 inhabitants it's just 2 (Maryland and DC) which pass the mark for the "strict" states, compared to 5 (South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alaska) for the looser ones.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 09:37:56 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 09:57:47 AM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Also the thing to consider is America is not a homogeneous nation with homogeneous gun laws. States with stricter gun laws actually constribute to higher crime rate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3s&v=IUUIGf4ll4g
Actually that's a myth mostly based on cherry picking statistics.

Evidence?

Well when gun advocates make that claim, they usually reference a couple of exceptions, for instance Chicago, or Maryland, but if you look at the total, it paints a different picture. First of all you have to consider the fact that some states have passed very strict gun laws specifically because of the issues they were facing with crime, while others haven't felt the need to do so because of the low violent crime rates. "Strict" gun laws is something that is hard to gauge, so what I did was compile the number of provisions every state had to regulate firearms and find the mean, split them into two groups (strict laws, loose laws) and use this board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
to determine the average murder rate in these states. Now I did fuck something up because I ended up with a couple more states in the "strict" category, but that shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's not a perfect way to gauge how strict the laws are, but it was the easiest way without making things too complex.

Here are the states of the "loose" category:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming.

Here are the "strict" states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusets, Michigan, Minnessota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, Iowa.

The average murder rate for the loose states was 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJ4ZFWc.png)

The average murder rate for the strict states was 5 murders per 100,000 inhabitants:

(https://i.imgur.com/9dFBqcV.png)

So on first inspection, it seems like they do indeed have a very slightly higher murder rate (it's actually pretty close, but there is a difference). However, notice how there's a very extreme spike in the value chart of the strict states. That's DC. No idea why it has that high a murder rate, but it doesn't really fit very well with the rest of the chart. Dropping it gives a murder rate of 4.2 for the "strict" states, which is lower than the "loose" states. Now you may or may not accept that, but these results show that at best they're about equal, they definitely don't contribute to the higher crime rates. And if you look at the states with a murder rate above 8 per 100,000 inhabitants it's just 2 (Maryland and DC) which pass the mark for the "strict" states, compared to 5 (South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alaska) for the looser ones.

For one I did said violent crime. For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning. And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California. Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Badxtoss on November 12, 2017, 10:36:35 AM
If we cut off everyone's arms and legs imagine the drop in the crime rate.
Think about it.
No need for that.
Imagine the drop in crime if people were not able to get away with using tools designed to kill en-masse.
Just take away the tit for tat potential of that and the make punishments fit the crimes from those that flout the laws.
No need to cut off arms and legs.
While that sounds like a good idea, it would not work in the states for a few reasons.  One being we are already flooded with guns, you simply can't round them up.
Another is our constitution.  Now you could make lots of legit arguments about how what we have now is not what was intended etc but the fact remains it is in the constitution and would require a new amendment to change that.
And that's just first ones that popped into my head.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Badxtoss on November 12, 2017, 10:38:16 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
That struck me as pretty funny as well!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 12, 2017, 10:56:43 AM
The simplest solution to any mass shootings or shootings at all is to not allow weapons that can fire projectiles, into the hands of those that do not require them in any normal walk of life.

Any person that has a requirement to carry a weapon like this, whether it's police, armed forces, hunters or whatever, should be under the control of massively strict law of use of them and the protection of those weapons so as not to enter into another persons possession without the relevant 100% guaranteed verification of who they are and their licence to own.

In England this is generally the case for the majority of weapons like this.
Where it can fail is in the sentences dished out to those that want to flout the laws and where punishments do not fit the crime of offences outside of the law with unauthorised use of those weapons, whether it's someone loaning that weapon to someone using that weapon to effect whatever crime or simply the crime of being in possession.

Does this take away people's rights?
Of course it does.
Anything done against a persons will is going against their rights but then again a persons will to murder or maim, whether with a gun, knife or improvised tool to hurt another will also require a law to punish, as with everything else designed to keep the population in check.

The issues arise when it's done unfairly.
However, where weapons are concerned in terms of licences to carry being flouted then the punishments should fit the crimes of doing that, including knives and tools designed to maim or used to maim.

The issues people have is, " yeah let them take all of our guns and weapons so we're left with nothing to fight with when they come to take us away and come to wipe us out or set up martial law."

Seriously?

In England they could do it anytime they want because as a rule, all we have to fight with is a weak voice which generally gets little done that those in power do not regard as necessary, so what do we do?
We simply get on with living the one life we have and trying to follow what laws we can in order to not fall foul of it and suffering the consequences.

Of course, the world is full of law abiding people who are wrongfully accused or incarcerated, whether it's by a deliberate act/corruption or by circumstantial evidence point the finger wrongly.

Out of the populations of the world we know, it's obviously going to be the nature of the beast, as is those in power lying to the people and also false flags played upon the people to effect change or gain favour, or whatever.

You can spend your life fighting it and being some kind of martyr if you want but make sure you're fighting for the right thing and make sure it's genuinely worthwhile and beneficial.

Allowing mass populations to carry weapons and especially guns is like being in the middle of a mass of hair triggers in the hands of ever growing insolent quick tempered young people who do not have the ability to slowly count to 10...not to mention those who are calculated to start with.

Any person that believes they should be allowed to carry a weapon in any way other than I stated should remember that you're advocating the use of that weapon to cause death at any given point, which is something that you are ill equipped to deal with in your general normal day to day running of your life and will not only destroy the life of your victim and the victims family but also your own and possibly your own family's well being from that point on.


Ban all weapons from the general public and make the laws ultra strict for those allowed to carry for their jobs and ensure the punishment fits the crime for those who flout that law.

Let me get this straight, You believe the earth is flat right? If so then you believe the government can't be trust with the basic shape of the earth. And yet at the same time you trust these same government officials that lie to you about the shape of the earth supposedly, while at the same time you trust the same people to have a monopoly on gun ownership?
That struck me as pretty funny as well!

It's worse than saying cops are racist while at the same time saying only cops should have guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 12, 2017, 12:08:53 PM
I am surprised scepti...very surprised you would advocate security over freedom.

As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 12, 2017, 12:33:41 PM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.
It's not particularly easy, finding the materials can be a challenge and it's quite possible that you'll be tracked.

Quote
For one I did said violent crime.

Yes, that's violent crime right there.

Quote
For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning.

I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, you claimed that states with stricter gun laws tend to have more violent crimes, and I showed it's not true, that's all there is to this.

Quote
And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California.

Yeah, so? What does that prove? The smaller population also means that these are far less likely. And there are plenty of small states that are in the strict category. Besides, you say this next:

Quote
Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

First of all that completely defeats your previous point. Second isn't that sort of expected, given that California is way, way larger than most other states?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 12, 2017, 05:58:01 PM
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense.  There's also a saying that your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on November 13, 2017, 09:44:58 AM
Either way. guns isn't the only way to commit mass murder.
It's the "easiest" way. You can't get a truck inside closed or fenced spaces, and it's not very easy to get hold of a bomb.

it's actually quite easy to make a bomb. I haven't done it because I don't want the risk of being visited but you don't have to google for long to find out how to make a pipe bomb. And there are plenty of unprotected targets to which one can choose from. Basically, If they don't check your backpack or person, you can easily get in a bomb.
It's not particularly easy, finding the materials can be a challenge and it's quite possible that you'll be tracked.

All you need is gunpowder, a metal pipe, and a fuse of some kind. Gun powder is readily available, you get pipes from Home Depot, and find some means to get a fuse to ignite it.

Quote
Quote
For one I did said violent crime.

Yes, that's violent crime right there.

It's a type of violent crime. It doesn't include rape or robbery.

Quote
Quote
For another, even states aren't homogeneous either. A lot of the crime and murder rates comes from the inner cities which are majorly democrat leaning.

I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, you claimed that states with stricter gun laws tend to have more violent crimes, and I showed it's not true, that's all there is to this.

You only showed states with murder rates, not violent crime in general.

Quote
Quote
And finally, a lot of the states you listed as loose gun law states have small populations. So a murder of 12 people in Iowa will have a greater affect of murders per 100,000 than a murder of 12 people in California.

Yeah, so? What does that prove? The smaller population also means that these are far less likely. And there are plenty of small states that are in the strict category. Besides, you say this next:

If I'm not mistaken mkst of the murders within those states happens in the few large cities the states have.

Quote

Quote
Also as a side note, California has the most mass shootings than any other state.

First of all that completely defeats your previous point. Second isn't that sort of expected, given that California is way, way larger than most other states?

For one I'm not saying it's because they have struct gun laws is the reason. However I am saying that it does go against the narrative of states with looser gun laws have more mass shootings. And in fact, states with looser gun laws have a slightly lesser gun homicide rate than those with stricter gun laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 13, 2017, 10:08:58 AM
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense.  There's also a saying that your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

How does this not make sense? The founding fathers knew how baby steps lead to a police state, oppression and tyranny. Baby steps will eventually lead you over a cliff no matter how slow you walk. So...don't take any steps and you will never start the slow motion suicide.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 13, 2017, 10:20:42 AM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 13, 2017, 10:42:32 AM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 13, 2017, 11:40:22 AM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

No. What SCG mentioned is the most blatant and obvious examples, but you can find more. For instance, most drugs are not allowed. Speeding or driving under the influence is not allowed. I can thing of hundreds of examples of things and activities that don't infringe anyone's rights directly, but are banned because of the danger they pose compared to their merit.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 13, 2017, 11:54:38 AM
As the saying goes...someone who gives up an ounce of freedom for security deserves neither.
I've never heard that saying before.  It sounds like nonsense, to be honest.

To live as a part of a society we give up all sorts of freedoms - otherwise you don't have a civilisation, you have anarchy.  The Rule of Law is an agreement to give up certain freedoms for the greater good.

Do you think that people have the right to posses a tank or a predator drone or a stealth bomber or a thermonuclear missile?  I'm guessing not, at least on the nuclear missile front.  In which case you and scepti and myself all agree that the state should restrict citizens access to weapons - what we disagree on is which weapons.

So this is an argument about the degree by which the state should restrict access to weapons, not some absolute position.  Just because someone might want stricter laws around gun ownership, does not mean they want (or deserve) to live in a totalitarian dictatorship.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 13, 2017, 12:40:02 PM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 13, 2017, 12:50:06 PM
It doesn't make sense because we all agree (I think) that there are certain things we shouldn't be free to do. You are not free to assault other people, to steal from them, to murder them, etc. We have agreed to give up the freedom to do those things in exchange for security.

Infringement on someone's basic civil rights has always been protected, since the foundation of this country. That is as far as it can go though. Any further you start your walk off the cliff.

I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners.
Good point.  Even during the constitutional convention in 1787, slaves were only considered 3/5 of a person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on November 13, 2017, 12:58:18 PM
I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners.

I cannot disagree with that. It did cross my mind when typing that, however didn't know if I wanted to go there or not.

Though even slaves had rights, however, unfortunately was not observed or enforced often.

Slavery is a shit piece of history for human beings. All races and genders have been enslaved at one point or the other. Still is happening in certain parts.

Also, remember here, some of the first slave owners were black themselves. Not that it really matters, just shows it is a human condition and not a race one.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 13, 2017, 10:01:01 PM
I think you are forgetting about some pretty serious basic civil rights infringements that were carried out by our founders. The only people whose civil rights were protected since the foundation were white male landowners.

I cannot disagree with that. It did cross my mind when typing that, however didn't know if I wanted to go there or not.

Though even slaves had rights, however, unfortunately was not observed or enforced often.

Slavery is a shit piece of history for human beings. All races and genders have been enslaved at one point or the other. Still is happening in certain parts.

Also, remember here, some of the first slave owners were black themselves. Not that it really matters, just shows it is a human condition and not a race one.

Slavery and Master have just evolved to different words but mean much the same

Master = Employer
Slave = Employee

While some of us have the luxury of choice, in many parts of the world, you are a slave from your own kind. One example are the 'sweat shops' in Asia

Go back in history and you will find mankinds greatest achievements and monuments were due to slaves. The Pyramids, the Great Wall etc. We all marvel at these accomplishments today but hell, it is said more than a million people died building the Great Wall which is nearly double that of those that died in the American Civil War!

Slavery is not just an American thing of white masters and black slaves. Every nation, including many today are guilty of enslaving others to the contempt of human rights. To only allow the label of slavery in the context of America centuries ago does a grave disservice to the genuine suffering of people who are still be every true definition of the word, slaves today. I know, its not 'politically correct' to label a non white male as a slave master but its true.

I walk past Chinese massage parlours here and I feel so sorry for the 'employees' slaves. Paid an illegal pittance well below minimum wage laws, some of them are forced to offer 'happy endings' to make additional $$$ for their slave masters (who shock horror is not a white male but a fellow Chinese/Asian)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 14, 2017, 03:40:08 AM
I walk past Chinese massage parlours here and I feel so sorry for the 'employees' slaves. Paid an illegal pittance well below minimum wage laws, some of them are forced to offer 'happy endings' to make additional $$$ for their slave masters (who shock horror is not a white male but a fellow Chinese/Asian)

Well to be fair you'll find out that most of the companies that produce their stuff there are owned by white dudes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on November 14, 2017, 04:10:16 AM
If you go high enough up the corporate ladder, sure. But does the owner of a factory in China give a damn he drives some of his workers to suicide while only paying them a few dollars a day while he lives a life of luxury from their literal blood, sweat and tears?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on November 14, 2017, 04:16:43 AM
If you go high enough up the corporate ladder, sure. But does the owner of a factory in China give a damn he drives some of his workers to suicide while only paying them a few dollars a day while he lives a life of luxury from their literal blood, sweat and tears?

Doesn't seem like they care.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: markjo on November 14, 2017, 06:25:43 AM
Slavery and Master have just evolved to different words but mean much the same

Master = Employer
Slave = Employee
Employee to boss: You can't fire me.  Slaves have to be sold.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 14, 2018, 12:47:39 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-presence-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/

What the hell is going on with our high schools?  This seems to happen a lot.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 14, 2018, 12:51:22 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-presence-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/

What the hell is going on with our high schools?  This seems to happen a lot.
It sure has nothing to do with guns and gun control.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 14, 2018, 01:43:04 PM
It's that liberal brainwashing the schools are doing nowadays.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 14, 2018, 02:10:00 PM
It's that liberal brainwashing the schools are doing nowadays.

If you tell everyone they are a victim, it's only natural that some will believe it and want to take action/revenge
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 14, 2018, 02:26:06 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-presence-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/

What the hell is going on with our high schools?  This seems to happen a lot.
It sure has nothing to do with guns and gun control.
The shooting has many things to it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 14, 2018, 03:14:03 PM
There's lots of anger in the world right now. It's more than guns. I mean, the guns aren't helping, but they're not the cause of all this anger and hatred.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 14, 2018, 04:01:25 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 14, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
So we are only halfway through February and apparently this is already the 18th school shooting. 17 dead at the moment.

WTF is wrong with people? Not sure why there are so many angry people that want to indiscriminately take lives. Forget gun control. This is a cultural problem now. A generation of psychopathic narcissists walk among you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 14, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
Does anybody know how many of these psycho shooters were affected in some way by social media,  either being bullied,  or radicalized in some way.

Maybe jroa is right, ( got to be a first time for everything :) ) maybe there is a generation of snowflakes who get bullied and socially isolated.  Then one day they snap.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 14, 2018, 05:04:50 PM
When I look at people talking about almost any topic on the internet it's filled with hate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 14, 2018, 05:10:53 PM
I have often believed that social media has actually disconnected people from each other. The 'connection' we get from social media is faux.

It has devalued life to nothing more than a screen. On the inside, we still crave that real connection with people. It is who we are, but we have isolated ourselves without realising it. When you go out for dinner, to fill the time while waiting for your meal, you used to talk to the person you were with, laugh, make jokes, hold their hand etc. We don't do that anymore. We are glued to our screens in silence. We are social creatures but that is anything but social. It's living a life in solitary. We know how that mindfucks people up. This social media and screen time probably does a similar job on peoples psychiatric wellbeing
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 14, 2018, 05:22:27 PM
I have often believed that social media has actually disconnected people from each other. The 'connection' we get from social media is faux.

It has devalued life to nothing more than a screen. On the inside, we still crave that real connection with people. It is who we are, but we have isolated ourselves without realising it. When you go out for dinner, to fill the time while waiting for your meal, you used to talk to the person you were with, laugh, make jokes, hold their hand etc. We don't do that anymore. We are glued to our screens in silence. We are social creatures but that is anything but social. It's living a life in solitary. We know how that mindfucks people up. This social media and screen time probably does a similar job on peoples psychiatric wellbeing

Well said.  I wonder if anyone has done research on the connection between todays crop of mass shootings and social media?
   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 02:33:56 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 02:52:02 AM
It's that liberal brainwashing the schools are doing nowadays.

If you tell everyone they are a victim, it's only natural that some will believe it and want to take action/revenge
You people really don't understand the newer generations. Very few people actually think they're victims or behave like snowflakes, or at least very little people compared to what's normal for teens. It's not a prevalent mentality, actually it's the opposite. They're more likely to feel ashamed, angry or unimportant. Do you know how common depression and high levels of stress are now? It's almost the default. Because the world is much more indifferent to individuals than it used to be, for many reasons, and it's so easy to get completely isolated. I guess the internet plays a role in this too. People get shut out of social contact, then they find other angry people anonymously expressing their anger on the internet, and it's so easy for things to get out of control. Then there's also how polite society now is and how it represses that anger. Things build up and get really dangerous over time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 15, 2018, 03:01:18 AM
Great post DNO.
I'd like to say that we're too busy trying to treat the symptom and not the cause. We tend to prescribe drugs that are a band-aid instead of getting to the root of the younger generations depression and anxiety.

Social media, the mainstream media and advertisements (don't get me started on advertisements) are absolutely damaging our children that's why I am always on about how evil it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 15, 2018, 03:02:37 AM
I guess the internet plays a role in this too. People get shut out of social contact, then they find other angry people anonymously expressing their anger on the internet, and it's so easy for things to get out of control. Then there's also how polite society now is and how it represses that anger. Things build up and get really dangerous over time.

I will say these two points contradict each other, shitposting is pretty therapeutic. Better than the social competition that facebook has become.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 03:58:14 AM
I guess the internet plays a role in this too. People get shut out of social contact, then they find other angry people anonymously expressing their anger on the internet, and it's so easy for things to get out of control. Then there's also how polite society now is and how it represses that anger. Things build up and get really dangerous over time.

I will say these two points contradict each other, shitposting is pretty therapeutic. Better than the social competition that facebook has become.

I don't know, maybe shitposting is therapeutic for some people, but other people get stuck in circle jerks that fuel their anger.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 15, 2018, 04:20:42 AM
I kind of feel like the social media/smartphone thing is sometimes perceived as a bigger problem than it actually is. I always see the older generation complain the younger ones are on their phone 24/7. My own experience is, that if you are going out with friends, noone uses their phone (except for maybe showing a funny pic or checking what time it is). And this is the case for basically all people I know.
Of course, there sure are some that are all the time on their phone, even when with friends (especially the so called 'influencers'; but at least they make money with it). But I'd say those are a small percentage, and they are probably addicted, meaning they'd need help. And some addicts and weird people have always existed and will always exist, I doubt that the percentage is any higher than let's say, 50 years ago.

I kind of agree with DNO. I feel like expressing your anger about anything has become very hard to do in the real world - you never know whether someone films you, and the stuff might getting uploaded to the internet, which could destroy your later career. Also, the pc stuff has gotten kind of over-the-top sometimes. And if there is no outlet for anger, it might add up until all the anger bursts out at once (doesn't have to be as bad as a school shooting, but worse than if someone could express their anger in a normal way).

Also, I doubt that shitposting works therapeutic in the long run, I'd say at best it would work short term.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 04:37:31 AM
I kind of feel like the social media/smartphone thing is sometimes perceived as a bigger problem than it actually is. I always see the older generation complain the younger ones are on their phone 24/7. My own experience is, that if you are going out with friends, noone uses their phone (except for maybe showing a funny pic or checking what time it is). And this is the case for basically all people I know.

I also agree with that. Young people don't use them to replace social contact as much as to fill in the gaps in between. One thing that does happen though is how posting on social media becomes such an important part of some people's lives that it starts detracting from various experiences.

Quote
I kind of agree with DNO. I feel like expressing your anger about anything has become very hard to do in the real world - you never know whether someone films you, and the stuff might getting uploaded to the internet, which could destroy your later career. Also, the pc stuff has gotten kind of over-the-top sometimes. And if there is no outlet for anger, it might add up until all the anger bursts out at once (doesn't have to be as bad as a school shooting, but worse than if someone could express their anger in a normal way).
The repression of anger isn't the main issue though. The issue is that the anger and the anxiety and the isolation exist and it's kind of complicated why that is. It's hard to pinpoint it on just one thing.

Quote
Also, I doubt that shitposting works therapeutic in the long run, I'd say at best it would work short term.
Yeah I don't think it's really therapeutic for most people either...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 15, 2018, 06:57:04 AM
There are so many places on the net that circle jerk beyond social media. The internet as a whole is a powerful tool, but is very easy for someone to misuse and help fuel their isolation and bitterness.

The reason people go after the bandaid fix is it's largely 1 size fits all. It may not be enough in 10% of cases, but it is in 90%. If you don't do the bandaid, it takes for effort to address the 90% that the bandaid helps. However, more help needs to be given to the 10% so that they have healthy ways to cope with their issues.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 08:23:07 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly). You get oppression points if you self diagnose with depression, or autism, or whatever. The angry ones who shoot up schools and shit find communities of other angry people and instead of dealing with their issues they wallow in them.

Having mental problems is now an excuse for shooting up a school. Everyone's talking about the guns, hardly anyone is talking about the underlying problems with our society. My Twitter timeline is filled with NRA outrage, and as usual the lines are being drawn and we will get nowhere and this will happen again in a few days.

Social media allows for fast widespread behavioral contagion. Used to be that this type of thing was contained in a small area, but now it travels to everyone instantly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 10:47:27 AM


Well I'm relieved.  For a minute there I thought they were going to do fucking nothing.  But we did get the thoughts and prayers.  So, problem solved.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 15, 2018, 10:50:47 AM
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - The onion

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 15, 2018, 11:23:18 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 12:20:28 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html

And he's one of Trump's "very fine people on both sides".  Fucking great.  We can just about expect a presidential pardon for him.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 15, 2018, 12:36:48 PM
Here is the thing with social media though

It gives unrealistic expectations of 'real life'

You 'follow' someone on social media - you see only what they want to share with the world. It's not just images that get filtered, but their life. Young people cant discern the difference. As such, they grow up having unrealistic expectations and naturally, when real life doesn't play out the way they think, they get stuck, depressed, angry etc

Social media also doesn't teach people how to be rejected. No one can handle it these days. Also I remember in school, if you wanted to talk to people or your friends, you actually had to make an effort. And you talked to them much more often and had much more things to talk about.

People are actually 'friending' people they have never even met before. 'Back in my day' you wanted to make a friend, you actually approached a real human being (no, not arealhumanbeing lol). From early on rejection was wired into your brain.

Personally, I believe if you are out in a real social situation, the phone should not be used for anything other than taking a call. You see it everywhere you walk now, (well I do), people using their phones for the 'social media' while out with the friends. The internet has become 'another life' which appears to be taking precedence over the real life

In a nod to PC fans everywhere, there was someone in a workplace that made the news how 'unfriending' a colleague constituted 'workplace bullying'

Social media can be a good tool, but it can also be disastrous

Before social media, you had a real circle of friends. You only had to compete for the attention of only a few dozen people. Since social media opened everyone in the world to everyone else, you are now competing for the attention across hundreds of millions of people. Some people may use social media as an acknowledgement of how successful and important they are.

There is no single answer. People lash out for many different reasons. I do believe the internet age, while leaping our knowledge orders of magnitude faster than ever before, has come with some unique problems.

Personally, I find the Angry Ranting on this board to be highly therapeutic. Not because I'm angry, but because it's so damn funny and in a world being strangled by political correctness, it's awesome there is a place to chill out and be a dick
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 15, 2018, 12:41:47 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html

And he's one of Trump's "very fine people on both sides".  Fucking great.  We can just about expect a presidential pardon for him.

I think that would be political suicide. Trump has thrown many friends under the bus in the past to save himself, I doubt he will pardon this prick. But you could be right.... Trump is unpredictable right. Perhaps he will not only be pardoned but be given a job in the White House?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 12:55:27 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html

And he's one of Trump's "very fine people on both sides".  Fucking great.  We can just about expect a presidential pardon for him.

I think that would be political suicide. Trump has thrown many friends under the bus in the past to save himself, I doubt he will pardon this prick. But you could be right.... Trump is unpredictable right. Perhaps he will not only be pardoned but be given a job in the White House?

I'm half joking and mostly just venting rage. I can't handle it when politicians offer thoughts and prayers when they're the only people that can do anything about this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 15, 2018, 02:27:23 PM
They're more likely to feel ashamed, angry or unimportant. Do you know how common depression and high levels of stress are now?

I have often believed that social media has actually disconnected people from each other. The 'connection' we get from social media is faux.

It has devalued life to nothing more than a screen.

I would say these two are very much intertwined..

Though there are tons of people that view themselves as victims etc. Some people may not even want that, but fall for it because the media is shoving up their ass 24/7 (I can only speak for the states on this)..

Though the biggest issue is the fact humanity is being removed and social media is one of the biggest contributors to that.

Seriously, I don't care if they are kids or adults....if you remove their humanity to a person, killing them would be no different that killing someone in a video game.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 02:59:27 PM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

According to the internet there are between 30 and 50 million users of Tumblr, but you are missing the point. How many users do you think Reddit has? That is snowflake headquarters for angry men (who do almost all of the mass shootings in the US).  I'm not sure why you are so defensive about social media. This website is social media. We're all glued to the internet.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 15, 2018, 04:20:02 PM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

According to the internet there are between 30 and 50 million users of Tumblr, but you are missing the point. How many users do you think Reddit has? That is snowflake headquarters for angry men (who do almost all of the mass shootings in the US).  I'm not sure why you are so defensive about social media. This website is social media. We're all glued to the internet.

You make valid points about the polarization and alienation that social media can cause,  but what makes the USA different when it comes to school shootings? 
We have our fair share of alienated angry white males in Australia,  we also have our share of Jihadi extremists,  but we don't have the mass shootings that you guys in the US have. 

While I'm generally pro gun,  the main point of difference seems to be the ready availability of guns in the USA.   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:23:49 PM
In other countries that don't have mass shootings, they kill lots of people in schools or subways with knives or machetes.  In some countries, they just run over people with trucks, or explode bombs.  Don't act like it is only the US that mass kills people. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 15, 2018, 04:26:09 PM
In other countries that don't have mass shootings, they kill lots of people in schools or subways with knives or machetes.  In some countries, they just run over people with trucks, or explode bombs.  Don't act like it is only the US that mass kills people.

True,  but the USA seems to have more than it's fair share.   I'm asking why?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 15, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
In other countries that don't have mass shootings, they kill lots of people in schools or subways with knives or machetes.  In some countries, they just run over people with trucks, or explode bombs.  Don't act like it is only the US that mass kills people.

True,  but the USA seems to have more than it's fair share.   I'm asking why?

I'd like to know also but we don't have a lot of research on it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/02/gun-violence-public-health/553430/

Thanks NRA!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 04:32:36 PM
Maybe all the poisonous wildlife you have takes care of the would be mass murderers.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 15, 2018, 04:52:13 PM
Maybe all the poisonous wildlife you have takes care of the would be mass murderers.

LOL,  for some reason, it's mostly German tourists that get attacked by crocodiles?   No idea why that is?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 04:59:02 PM
All the nature programs about Australia show the stuff that will kill you. Like some fucking spider that sits at the bottom of a swimming pool in a little bubble of air waiting for you to step on it and then DIE within minutes? Also, a lovely little octopus that will kill you. A poisonously cute duck billed beaver thing? WTF? lol

I wonder if you have the super divisive news media over there, like we do here? Also, how much money is in politics there, not the exact amount but do you have wealthy industries manipulating your politics the same way we do?  They like us to be angry at each other so we're too busy shooting each other to pay attention to what they're doing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 15, 2018, 05:04:32 PM
All the nature programs about Australia show the stuff that will kill you. Like some fucking spider that sits at the bottom of a swimming pool in a little bubble of air waiting for you to step on it and then DIE within minutes? Also, a lovely little octopus that will kill you. A poisonously cute duck billed beaver thing? WTF? lol

I wonder if you have the super divisive news media over there, like we do here? Also, how much money is in politics there, not the exact amount but do you have wealthy industries manipulating your politics the same way we do?  They like us to be angry at each other so we're too busy shooting each other to pay attention to what they're doing.

Most of those wildlife shows are just beat-ups.  We like to scare the tourists with them,  but I imagine you guys tell the same stories about grizzly bears, rattle snakes and alligators.

News media is much the same,  we have the Murdoch controlled tabloid stuff, and sensationalist tv current affair shows,  that treat news as entertainment.   We have a pretty good public broadcaster in the ABC.   

There is always money in politics, and we are no different,  I don't think it's as "in your face"  like it is with the super-pacs, and attack ads you have.

I think a lot of people get their news from facebook and twitter these days, rather than the traditional  6:00 tv news.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 15, 2018, 06:06:18 PM
I wonder how it is that you guys turned out so differently on guns. I guess you never had them enshrined in a constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 15, 2018, 06:12:34 PM
All the nature programs about Australia show the stuff that will kill you. Like some fucking spider that sits at the bottom of a swimming pool in a little bubble of air waiting for you to step on it and then DIE within minutes? Also, a lovely little octopus that will kill you. A poisonously cute duck billed beaver thing? WTF? lol

I wonder if you have the super divisive news media over there, like we do here? Also, how much money is in politics there, not the exact amount but do you have wealthy industries manipulating your politics the same way we do?  They like us to be angry at each other so we're too busy shooting each other to pay attention to what they're doing.

Apart from one person dying from a redback spider recently (only the females are dangerous and rarely ever leave their web) No one had died from a spider bite in over 40 years.

Only a few dozen people spanning decades have been killed by a snake

Only twerps swim in crocodile infested waters

Those nature shows are beat ups indeed
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 10:00:40 PM
Australia is the most dangerous place in the world.  If you go there, you will die a horrible death.  I saw it on TV. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: rabinoz on February 15, 2018, 10:54:52 PM
Australia is the most dangerous place in the world.  If you go there, you will die a horrible death.  I saw it on TV.
:( ;) :( Sure, and I guess that you're so thankful that you have so many of those M15's over there - we're told that they are such safe weapons :( ;) :(.

But, sure come over and have a swim and see our beautiful sea-creatures like:
The last two are such pretty creatures too.

Don't believe what you read in that sensationalist media, The world's 10 deadliest animals - and they're all Aussies (https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/our-10-deadliest-animals/2648358/)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 15, 2018, 11:02:21 PM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

Just checked that tumblr thing, first time on there in my life (probably). First few posts I see:

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/0d4ed76499cbcbc0eca2bfaeb82602e7/tumblr_p4538lKDyT1tzkxwxo1_1280.jpg)
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/c8887e0435d20e5280587e92a89d7f8a/tumblr_p3zxd5kGwQ1u3u3h0o1_1280.jpg)
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/e96cfe03583a91c7a5b6cfa98fc47e16/tumblr_p4474xDmx41s0iypjo2_1280.png)

Holy crap, that's about as close to virtual cancer as you can get.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 16, 2018, 01:05:07 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

Just checked that tumblr thing, first time on there in my life (probably). First few posts I see:
<snip>
Holy crap, that's about as close to virtual cancer as you can get.

In the words of Douglass Adams,  "Mostly Harmless"

In other unrelated news,  the Australian Prime Minister announced a "Bonk Ban"  apparently it's no longer ok for politicians to have sex with their office staff. 

Yes, he is serious.  Everyone else is sort of gob smacked that it needed to be said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-15/turnbull-slams-joyce-affair-changes-to-ministerial-standards/9451792

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 16, 2018, 02:05:40 AM
You 'follow' someone on social media - you see only what they want to share with the world. It's not just images that get filtered, but their life. Young people cant discern the difference. As such, they grow up having unrealistic expectations and naturally, when real life doesn't play out the way they think, they get stuck, depressed, angry etc

Social media also doesn't teach people how to be rejected. No one can handle it these days. Also I remember in school, if you wanted to talk to people or your friends, you actually had to make an effort. And you talked to them much more often and had much more things to talk about.

People are actually 'friending' people they have never even met before. 'Back in my day' you wanted to make a friend, you actually approached a real human being (no, not arealhumanbeing lol). From early on rejection was wired into your brain.
See this is why I say you don't understand the most recent generations. None of these things are really true. About your first point: while it's true that the life of people they follow can work as a role model for their life, as it always used to be the case with celebrities, unless you are really really young or really really dumb you don't think it's actually how life is supposed to be. It's no different than how it's always been with celebrities.

Also what you don't understand and I've said it again is that they don't use social media as a substitute for personal contact. You still have to make an effort to talk to people and no one thinks people they don't know but friended on facebook are their friends. Not many people actually meet someone through social media without having met them in real life. And I don't understand why you think you can't be rejected through social media.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 16, 2018, 04:08:44 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 16, 2018, 04:41:13 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

The vast majority of us are pro gun.  The vast majority of us also are for reasonable restrictions on who gets what guns.  These two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/637/words-you-cant-say/act-two-3

The problem is we have a gun club that holds an obscene amount of power over our political process who refuses to ever give an inch on the subject.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 05:02:38 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

So you think the SSA should be able to, without due process, strip citizens of their constitutional rights because someone can't balance their checkbook?


Quote
Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms

  What next?  Give the IRS power over free speech?  Oh wait, obama already tried that.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Let's ignore the 5th and 14th amendments so we can deny people's 2nd amendment rights, for political reasons.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 16, 2018, 05:09:17 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

So you think the SSA should be able to, without due process, strip citizens of their constitutional rights because someone can't balance their checkbook?


Quote
Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms

  What next?  Give the IRS power over free speech?  Oh wait, obama already tried that.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Let's ignore the 5th and 14th amendments so we can deny people's 2nd amendment rights, for political reasons.

And right on cue, a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 05:20:53 AM
This weeks winner in the category,  "I can't believe how stupid this is" 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.0a5c32fb33d1

Seriously,  the Republicans passed a law removing  restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns?

Hate to tell you guys,  but that's seriously fucked up.   Disclaimer:  I'm pro gun,  but, you've got to be kidding, I wouldn't give one to a nutter.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/964332932751085568

So you think the SSA should be able to, without due process, strip citizens of their constitutional rights because someone can't balance their checkbook?


Quote
Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms

  What next?  Give the IRS power over free speech?  Oh wait, obama already tried that.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Let's ignore the 5th and 14th amendments so we can deny people's 2nd amendment rights, for political reasons.

And right on cue, a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

So yes?

The SSA should have the power to deny constitutional rights of US citizens without due process.

What other rights do want abolish besides the 2nd, 5th, and 14th amendment?

And also if this is such a good idea, why did obama wait 8 years to do it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 16, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Oh no... Not the NAZI tard again...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 05:37:33 AM
Oh no... Not the NAZI tard again...

Oh no.... not a Eurotard talking about freedom again...

Pearls cast before swine.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 06:12:58 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 06:26:25 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.

I agree.
But that decision is made by the court system, not the SSA.

It's called due process
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 07:42:37 AM
I don't believe all the young people are special snowflakes. What I do see is that the ones that are snowflakes (ever generation has them) are finding that being a snowflake gets rewarded in some way on social media (check out tumblr, srsly).

Few people that I know use Tumblr, it's not a big thing. I'm sure there are many people who do use it, but I just don't know that many of them. The people that do use it are usually teenage girls checking out fanart and pictures of hot guys.

Just checked that tumblr thing, first time on there in my life (probably). First few posts I see:
<snip>
Holy crap, that's about as close to virtual cancer as you can get.

In the words of Douglass Adams,  "Mostly Harmless"

In other unrelated news,  the Australian Prime Minister announced a "Bonk Ban"  apparently it's no longer ok for politicians to have sex with their office staff. 

Yes, he is serious.  Everyone else is sort of gob smacked that it needed to be said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-15/turnbull-slams-joyce-affair-changes-to-ministerial-standards/9451792

Y'all didn't even scratch the surface of Tumblr. Look up ddlg and maps (minor attracted persons, yep they're pedos). DDLG stands for daddy dom and little girl, there are grown ass men grooming young girls. Not to mention the porn bots that spam the site with violent porn images.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 07:50:22 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.

I agree.
But that decision is made by the court system, not the SSA.

It's called due process
Last I checked, lawyers and judges don't have medical degrees to accurately diagnose someone with a disease.

Let the due process be handled on the back end. Allow them a process to clear their background check. But stop them from purchasing in the mean time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 08:18:49 AM
If you can't get a gun RIGHT THIS SECOND your rights are being violated.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 08:27:41 AM
This is an interesting article (a couple years old) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 08:31:36 AM
If you have a psychiatric problem which prevents you from being able to manage your own money, such as having no memory of spending money, then yes, you should be denied the right to own a weapon.

I agree.
But that decision is made by the court system, not the SSA.

It's called due process
Last I checked, lawyers and judges don't have medical degrees to accurately diagnose someone with a disease.

Let the due process be handled on the back end. Allow them a process to clear their background check. But stop them from purchasing in the mean time.

Last I checked doctors give court testimony about the mental health of patients all the time.

What part of nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law is unclear?

Last I checked the constitution does not give employees of the SSA the authority to deny someone's 5th amendment rights.

If you can't get a gun RIGHT THIS SECOND your rights are being violated.

No, courts have ruled that reasonable waiting periods don't violate your rights.

How about this:

Should a employee of the SSA have the power to say that Jane Doe shouldn't be able to have an abortion because she doesn't have the mentally to handle finances?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
Simple solution, have the SSA give notice of the intent to list their name on the background check to prevent gun purchases. Give them a 15 day notice and allow them to petition the court to block that action if they wish to contest it.  Boom, purchases blocked and due process rights given.

Instead of just automatically saying "nope, can't do that, can't possibly do anything like that." How about you look at it with common sense and say " you know, if a person can't mentally handle their money, maybe they shouldn't own a deadly weapon." I personally don't want someone with dementia or schizophrenia to own a weapon, I've seen dementia first hand, a person could kill someone and literally not have a recollection of it 30 seconds later.

Be part of the solution, not the roadblock that stops any sort of discussion to help find solutions.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
If you can't get a gun RIGHT THIS SECOND your rights are being violated.
This generation and their instant gratification amirite?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 16, 2018, 09:06:17 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 09:06:27 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWK57WpXkAAS3QD.jpg)

15 year old kid (identity being protected because of his age) has been arrested for posting this. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/south-carolina-hs-student-who-allegedly-posted-florida-round-2-tells-cops-it-was-joke.html He's just joking, though!

They really need to figure out how to tone down the coverage after one of these events. I think all the weeping and wailing and the endless stories about the perpetrators and the victims influences some copycats. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 09:15:01 AM
But without coverage, then it's completely swept under the rug and #coverup crops up. It's almost a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.  And who's to say no or little coverage won't encourage someone to go bigger and badder next time to see if they can get more coverage?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 16, 2018, 09:17:41 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
I like that measure. I'm assuming he hasn't gotten into any sort of legal trouble over that?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 16, 2018, 09:27:02 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
I like that measure. I'm assuming he hasn't gotten into any sort of legal trouble over that?

No legal issues, it is his right legally and as a business. Plus in my opinion helps cover his ass business wise.

Some customers but alot of people who don't even go to his business are making a fuss. Kinda dumb, I see no problem with it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 16, 2018, 09:29:02 AM
My friend owns two pawnshops. Been in business for close to 27 years, good guy and he runs a clean business and treats his customers well (unusual for that business), also one of the largest pawnshops for dealing with firearms.

Starting last year, if someone pawns a firearm he makes them go through a background check if they retrieve it. Alot of backlash has started from that.
I like that measure. I'm assuming he hasn't gotten into any sort of legal trouble over that?

Yeah I'm a little curious about that.  It definitely seems like a good thing but if he's not legally required to then it sounds like he's opening himself up to legal action.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 16, 2018, 09:32:43 AM
I bet behind every schoolshooting there's also a very sad story of a lonely guy being bullied for years.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 16, 2018, 09:43:16 AM
I bet behind every schoolshooting there's also a very sad story of a lonely guy being bullied for years.

You should read the article SCG posted.  It's interesting.  It would be a mistake to apply a single stereotype to school shooters.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 16, 2018, 09:49:33 AM
Yeah I'm a little curious about that.  It definitely seems like a good thing but if he's not legally required to then it sounds like he's opening himself up to legal action.

He is legally in the clear. It is ran as a new sale, which under the loophole he found it is completely legal. Even though they brought it in originally, once they retrieve, it's considered a new sale.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 10:10:45 AM
But without coverage, then it's completely swept under the rug and #coverup crops up. It's almost a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.  And who's to say no or little coverage won't encourage someone to go bigger and badder next time to see if they can get more coverage?

Well, I don't mean there shouldn't be any coverage, but the way these things are covered needs to be looked at. I live in Florida, so of course the coverage was non stop and over the top. This was local news, I have no idea how the cable news covered it, but I imagine it was just as breathless. They tend to make stars out of the shooters, describing their families and their lives. They get immortalized in a way they could only dream of. They need to find a way to report these things that makes being the shooter unappealing. I don't know, maybe a psychologist could figure something out. They know how to use psychology to sell us all the shit we buy, they could use it to do something beneficial.


http://thehill.com/policy/defense/373396-us-military-added-4000-to-gun-ban-list-after-texas-church-massacre-report

It's about damn time.

I don't know where to find the documents Wes Lowrey has posted images of on Twitter, but you can look at them in his tweets https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery/status/964553803931570178  I searched for Devin Kelley but nothing from today came up. The Hill article is from a few days ago.

It seems like lots of these mass killers have some history of domestic abuse.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 16, 2018, 11:02:10 AM
Looks like the FBI dropped the ball http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/alleged-florida-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz-was-reported-to-fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
Simple solution, have the SSA give notice of the intent to list their name on the background check to prevent gun purchases. Give them a 15 day notice and allow them to petition the court to block that action if they wish to contest it.  Boom, purchases blocked and due process rights given.



Ok, let's replace 2nd amendment w/ the 1st.

If Jane can't manage her finances she might not realize that yelling "fire" in a theater,  should she have to petition the court to go out in public unmuzzled?
 In the USA  government petitions the court to deny rights, not the other way around.  It is the foundation of this country.
Quote

Instead of just automatically saying "nope, can't do that, can't possibly do anything like that." How about you look at it with common sense and say " you know, if a person can't mentally handle their money, maybe they shouldn't own a deadly weapon." I personally don't want someone with dementia or schizophrenia to own a weapon, I've seen dementia first hand, a person could kill someone and literally not have a recollection of it 30 seconds later.

Then change the constitution because that is exactly what it says. 
Hell you couldn't even get a drivers license revoked with such reasons, but it's ok to deny someone due process?

Quote

Be part of the solution, not the roadblock that stops any sort of discussion to help find solutions.

That is what laws are for and I would be happy to discuss what laws could work without denying innocent people of their rights by one person at the SSA.

This was strictly a political move by Obama on his way out the door.
It was done so the hard left could scream that repeblicans want crazy people to have guns.  See rayzors post above.

Also read the article he linked to!  There is NO reason for this rule in the first place, other than to fuel the left's TDS.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: NAZA on February 16, 2018, 01:02:07 PM
How about this law:

If a kid goes on the rampage charge the parents with at least negligent homicide .
Let Mommy and Daddy realize they they could go to jail and perhaps they'll pay attention.

If congress passes the NAZA Law I would support it.

If Trump did the same with executive order to justice dept I would condemn it and  praise the president that got rid of it. 

Obama issued an executive order allowing government employees to deny citizen's 5th and 2nd amendment rights.  Not to save lives, but  strictly for political reasons and the left praises him for doing it.

Deranged.








Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 16, 2018, 01:07:56 PM
How about this law:

If a kid goes on the rampage charge the parents with at least negligent homicide .
Let Mommy and Daddy realize they they could go to jail and perhaps they'll pay attention.
Congratulations!
That's the dumbest thing I've read so in 2018.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 16, 2018, 01:28:40 PM
Looks like the FBI dropped the ball http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/alleged-florida-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz-was-reported-to-fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html

Here is more info to go along with that.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-statement-on-the-shooting-in-parkland-florida

FL Governor might be asking for the FBI director to resign. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 17, 2018, 09:53:07 AM
Oh no... Not the NAZI tard again...

Oh no.... not a Eurotard talking about freedom again...

Pearls cast before swine.

You don't know shit about freedom (or anything you talk about really). All you know about it is probably stuff you've been told by people trying to convince you they're not taking advantage of you, or to make you feel you have a bigger dick than those who you think don't have it, even though you don't understand what it is.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 17, 2018, 10:31:44 AM
Turns out the FBI had been warned twice about this guy and they didn't do anything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 10:39:23 AM
That's because they're too busy with all the Muslim terrorists and black lives matter terrorists to watch the white nationalist terrorists.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 17, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 10:43:11 AM
The FBI: controlling and recording everything and spying on everyone, but can't see what's in front of their noses.


Quote
Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?
No I don't.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 10:45:42 AM
I think that is actually the problem. They collect too much data to be able to process it all in any helpful way. What good is it to have all that data if it can't be used in time to stop something bad?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 17, 2018, 11:19:55 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?

I'm pretty sure he's joking.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 11:31:55 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?

I'm pretty sure he's joking.
Shh, don't tell'em. You spoil the fun :(

Although, in terms of privacy, I'd probably be not too far off.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 11:34:52 AM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

I know this is a silly question as I already know the answer...

Is it remotely possible for you to say something that is either not ignorant, stupid or a lie?

It must be a sad day to wake up and look on the mirror huh? That is if you can sum up the courage to even gaze in said mirror.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 11:41:36 AM
Is it remotely possible for you to say something that is either not ignorant, stupid or a lie?
There isn't.
Saying that was kind of ignorant, right?
So I guess I'm at least pretty good at it  ;)

It must be a sad day to wake up and look on the mirror huh? That is if you can sum up the courage to even gaze in said mirror.
I removed all mirrors, it makes it easier.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 12:30:28 PM
There isn't.
Saying that was kind of ignorant, right?
So I guess I'm at least pretty good at it  ;)


I suppose you are good at something... congrats

Quote
I removed all mirrors, it makes it easier.

An honest answer
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 17, 2018, 03:15:42 PM
In a freedom ranking, I'd put murica on the second last place - just before north korea.

Do you ever wonder why people call you a moron both in real life and here?

I'm pretty sure he's joking.
Shh, don't tell'em. You spoil the fun :(

Although, in terms of privacy, I'd probably be not too far off.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/738/028/121.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 04:05:28 PM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/738/028/121.png)

Holy crap that is funny.

On a real note, I have no issue with retarded people...I have a heart for them.

However, a retard that thinks they are better than everyone else and more intelligent (user)...I do have a problem with that
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 17, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
It must be a sad day to wake up and look on the mirror huh? That is if you can sum up the courage to even gaze in said mirror.
I removed all mirrors, it makes it easier.

LOL,  what is it with BHS and mirrors?   He's always asking people "How do you look at yourself in a mirror"  I would have thought it was pretty obvious. 

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 05:12:24 PM

LOL,  what is it with BHS and mirrors?   He's always asking people "How do you look at yourself in a mirror"  I would have thought it was pretty obvious.

I imagine you do not.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 17, 2018, 05:17:26 PM

LOL,  what is it with BHS and mirrors?   He's always asking people "How do you look at yourself in a mirror"  I would have thought it was pretty obvious.

I imagine you do not.

I'm pretty sure I know how to use a mirror.   Do you do something weird when standing front of a mirror?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 06:04:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4uMS1P.gif)

Is this what you do in the mirror?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 17, 2018, 06:08:32 PM
BHS is workin' dat mirror! You go with yo fine self, guuuurl!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 17, 2018, 06:41:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4uMS1P.gif)

Is this what you do in the mirror?

If only I was that hot and cool (there is zero sarcasm here)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 17, 2018, 07:02:13 PM
You just need some pants with tassels! Oh and a super cool headband.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 17, 2018, 07:46:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4uMS1P.gif)

Is this what you do in the mirror?

If only I was that hot and cool (there is zero sarcasm here)

Now I understand your comments about being unable to look at yourself in the mirror,  my sincere condolences on the death of your love life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 17, 2018, 11:45:34 PM
I bet he hates mirrors because he's ugly af, and now he is - once again - projecting...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 18, 2018, 12:39:40 AM
He totally saw a vagina once, though. That's what happens when you're the ALPHA.

Like ya. So jelly.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 03:51:01 AM
I bet he hates mirrors because he's ugly af, and now he is - once again - projecting...

I am not the one that was scared to post a picture up.

More stupidity from the dunning-kruger poster child.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 05:46:35 AM
I bet he hates mirrors because he's ugly af, and now he is - once again - projecting...

I am not the one that was scared to post a picture up.

More stupidity from the dunning-kruger poster child.
I'm not sure how posting a picture makes you better looking. But whatever.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 08:10:56 AM
I'm not sure how posting a picture makes you better looking. But whatever.

Women don't run from me if I approach them..no matter how many times your mother tells you it is normal they flee the scene when you approach, it is not.

Though in reality, you make fun of what people look like yet you are too much of a chicken shit to post a picture...as our Jewish friend said "We know he looks like a foot"...

Including all your other failures on this site (and life), you are literally a walking epic fail. Is there anything you win at? Surely you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 08:17:27 AM
Women don't run from me if I approach them..no matter how many times your mother tells you it is normal they flee the scene when you approach, it is not.

Though in reality, you make fun of what people look like yet you are too much of a chicken shit to post a picture...as our Jewish friend said "We know he looks like a foot"...

Including all your other failures on this site (and life), you are literally a walking epic fail. Is there anything you win at? Surely you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede.
Well, I won at the evolution debate (you know, the thread where you chickened out), that's kind of satisfying  8)

Also, you're cute when angry  ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 08:52:40 AM

Well, I won at the evolution debate (you know, the thread where you chickened out), that's kind of satisfying  8)

Also, you're cute when angry  ;)

Getting disgusted with the thread is different than losing. Even evolution proponents were fed up with your copy pasta.. especially when it was obvious you had no idea what any of it meant. You would find something that sounded complex copy and paste it.

You can restart it if you wish to use your own words this time. Though you tried to the beginning of the thread before you went to copy pasta since you were getting kicked around so badly (or could barely complete a few sentences)..

I hope you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede...there are plenty of jokes out there about y'all, but this is getting ridiculous
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 09:02:44 AM

Well, I won at the evolution debate (you know, the thread where you chickened out), that's kind of satisfying  8)

Also, you're cute when angry  ;)

Getting disgusted with the thread is different than losing. Even evolution proponents were fed up with your copy pasta.. especially when it was obvious you had no idea what any of it meant. You would find something that sounded complex copy and paste it.

You can restart it if you wish to use your own words this time. Though you tried to the beginning of the thread before you went to copy pasta since you were getting kicked around so badly (or could barely complete a few sentences)..

I hope you are not an accurate representation of a young Swede...there are plenty of jokes out there about y'all, but this is getting ridiculous
Why'd I restart a discussion with someone that just accuses his opponent of 'copy pasta' once he sees himself losing? I have better things to do; you're not on my niveau and thus not worth the time, sorry.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 18, 2018, 09:25:46 AM
Why'd I restart a discussion with someone that just accuses his opponent of 'copy pasta' once he sees himself losing? I have better things to do; you're not on my niveau and thus not worth the time, sorry.

It wasn't just myself that caught it...even proponents for evolution caught it and made it known, explained how you were not making any sense. It's not like these people even like me, so it wasn't for my benefit...it was for the fact you were sounded that stupid/ignorant (nothing out of the ordinary)..

Though I had no doubt you would back out of an actual conversation...you can actually use copy pasta if you wish, just try and make it relevant this time, or at least make sense.

As for not being on your level, yeah I don't deny that... honestly I don't think anyone is on your level here...it is hard to look down that far, perhaps maybe a brain dead rodent could relate to you.. however, even that might be an insult to the rodent.

You should be counting your blessings that you live in a nanny state...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 18, 2018, 09:29:57 AM
It wasn't just myself that caught it...even proponents for evolution caught it and made it known, explained how you were not making any sense. It's not like these people even like me, so it wasn't for my benefit...it was for the fact you were sounded that stupid/ignorant (nothing out of the ordinary)..
I don't think you have actually read the thread.

Though I had no doubt you would back out of an actual conversation...you can actually use copy pasta if you wish, just try and make it relevant this time, or at least make sense.
There are questions still left open in the evolution thread. You can try to answer them any time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Papa Legba on February 18, 2018, 09:44:13 AM
This mass shooting was teh wurst:



It never had a proper inquest either, just like the fake shit all you shill bots are clacking about...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Zaphod on February 18, 2018, 09:59:10 AM
How many kids need to get killed before America will wake up and do something about it?

Maybe this has been posted before so apologies if it has, but Australian comedian Jim Jefferies sums it up well....

part 1

(http://)

part 2

(http://)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Papa Legba on February 18, 2018, 10:33:27 AM
How many kids need to get killed before America will wake up and do something about it?

Well, the inquests on these alleged crimes should give us that number...

But they never have proper inquests on them, so I guess the number is Zero.

Besides, the mods and admins of this forum are more interested in having sex with children than saving them, so why ask in the first place?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74370.msg2027400#new

Sick place, eh?

Gotta wonder what its real purpose is...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 18, 2018, 03:49:50 PM
I see Infowars are up to their usual journalistic standards.   https://www.infowars.com/report-florida-shooter-inspired-by-isis-allahu-akbar/

Twitter response to infowars.  https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

Meanwhile, the troll farm, and fake news sites are having a field day... https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 18, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Propaganda disinfo.

https://twitter.com/altGS_rocks/status/964498434769215488

Kinda obvious, automated disinfo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 08:01:37 AM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 19, 2018, 09:26:03 AM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).

In Texas it is the same for both
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 09:35:13 AM
Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 19, 2018, 10:07:15 AM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).

Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

Do they have to be registered or can you purchase guns from trade shows (or in the parking lot of one) legally?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 19, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

I'd be surprised if it didn't. A lot of bad decisions are done by people with poor impulse control. When you force then to take some time to think about it they'll usually do something less stupid.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 10:25:44 AM
I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that you can buy a gun from an unlicensed seller without a background check in Florida. This means any person who is not in the business of selling guns. So, yeah, you could buy a gun in the parking lot of a gun show or Walmart legally as long as neither the buyer or seller is already banned from owning guns. I get the point of that, if you have a gun and you want to sell it to your friend then it shouldn't be a big deal, but it's hard to make reasonable laws that include reasonable exceptions. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 12:00:48 PM
What magical law would prevent something like this? The problem is we're not enforcing the myriad laws we already have on the books.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 19, 2018, 12:12:56 PM
What magical law would prevent something like this?
Why do you think requiring a license to purchase or own firearms and a limited number of rounds unless you have a different special license is a "magical" law? Also if people aren't allowed to drink under 21 in your country I think it makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed to own guns either. I agree that it's more important to look at the real cause that leads people to commit these shootings, but that's not something you can just solve at the flip of a switch. You also have to take more immediate action.

Also I'm beginning to think Rayzor is right about these bots. I was reading something about Black Mirror from two months ago and I looked at the comment section of the article and there were a bunch of completely off topic comments, sometimes replies to actual on topic comments that were in no way related to them, promoting Trump and/or various alt right ideologies, and they all had a curiously high amount of likes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 12:26:20 PM
What magical law would prevent something like this?
Why do you think requiring a license to purchase or own firearms and a limited number of rounds unless you have a different special license is a "magical" law? Also if people aren't allowed to drink under 21 in your country I think it makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed to own guns either. I agree that it's more important to look at the real cause that leads people to commit these shootings, but that's not something you can just solve at the flip of a switch. You also have to take more immediate action.

Also I'm beginning to think Rayzor is right about these bots. I was reading something about Black Mirror from two months ago and I looked at the comment section of the article and there were a bunch of completely off topic comments, sometimes replies to actual on topic comments that were in no way related to them, promoting Trump and/or various alt right ideologies, and they all had a curiously high amount of likes.

And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 12:30:49 PM
We were told by Sarah Sanders after the shooting at the music festival "Now is not the right time to talk about gun control"

I am wondering if it's time yet?


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
Which existing gun laws are not being enforced?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:32:35 PM
We were told by Sarah Sanders after the shooting at the music festival "Now is not the right time to talk about gun control"

I am wondering if it's time yet?

The right wing nuts say that after every shooting. One of my sisters says it all the time. I asked how many days do we have to wait, and do we have to wait extra days if it happens again while we're waiting for the first time limit to expire.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 12:33:57 PM
Which existing gun laws are not being enforced?

Take the Vegas shooter. The navy or whatever failed to report his record so he was able to purchase those guns when by law he shouldn't have been able to.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:36:46 PM
Which existing gun laws are not being enforced?

Take the Vegas shooter. The navy or whatever failed to report his record so he was able to purchase those guns when by law he shouldn't have been able to.

I thought it was the Texas shooter who should have been on the list.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 19, 2018, 12:40:48 PM
I think that it's so easy to get guns and ammunition in the USA is part of the problem, yes., but the underlying cause seems to be the american gun-obsession. I mean other countries, for example switzerland, have a lot of guns, too, but they are not obsessed with them (although I'm pretty sure they have still way less weapons per adult citizen than the us).

Als I wonder whether going berserk is a bigger problem in the usa than in other countries, or whether it's just that the americans tend to use a gun when going nuts whereas people in other areas do different things (e.g. fist fight to let their anger out, which tends to be less deadly).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:44:24 PM
There is a weird thing going on with people in the US. People are angry about everything.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 19, 2018, 12:47:27 PM
There is a weird thing going on with people in the US. People are angry about everything.
When looking at BHS, that certainly is true. Although I'm not sure if he's representative.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 12:48:20 PM
There is a weird thing going on with people in the US. People are angry about everything.

What if the problem in Flint with lead leeching into the water supply is actually far more widespread. Obviously it is political suicide to happen under a politicians watch so if they knew about it what lengths do you think a pollie would go to cover it up?

We know lead can make people violent and aggressive
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/#2f5f615012c4

As they say 'must be something in the water'
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 12:55:43 PM
If we were all on the same water that would be a thing to look at!

They did look at lead before because removing it from gasoline correlated with a decrease in crime, but I don't know whatever came of that. The crime rates have been on the decline for a long time now. Mass shootings are on the increase, but violent crime over all is down.

The mass shooters all make me think of people who commit murder suicide. Like they want to die and take as many people with them as possible.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 19, 2018, 02:03:26 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:12:58 PM
Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

I'd be surprised if it didn't. A lot of bad decisions are done by people with poor impulse control. When you force then to take some time to think about it they'll usually do something less stupid.

I would like to see a study that shows that people impulse buy legal guns with the intent of commiting a crime.  In the 1990s, we were subject to the Brady bill in which there was a mandatory 2 week wait time to buy a firearm, and studies from the 2000s showed that during that time, gun crimes did not go down at all.  A wait time is just an inconvenience for the buyer.  Criminals can buy illegal firearms and have no wait time at all.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 19, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 02:21:25 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 02:29:54 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?


Motivation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 02:30:11 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:31:49 PM
Should an AR-15 be easier to get than a handgun? Three day waiting period for a handgun, but instant background check for an AR-15 (in Florida, don't know about other states).

Here, you can walk out of a store with an AR within 20 minutes and all you need is an ID.  For a pistol, you must go to the sheriff's office to get a purchase permit first.  It may take a week for the permit to be accepted, might be a month, and it might never be accepted. 

By the way, I wonder if the waiting period has ever actual kept a crime from happening.

Do they have to be registered or can you purchase guns from trade shows (or in the parking lot of one) legally?

Gun Shows run you through the federal background check just like a gun store.  You can avoid this only through a private transaction, but no, there is no registration unless you chose to register with the manufacturer for warrantee reasons, and the government is not suppose to be saving records of background checks.  I personally have no problem with a registration, except that that is what Australia did, and then when it came time to round up guns, they knew exactly who had what.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 02:36:46 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)

It's already illegal for a convicted felon to possess a firearm. That doesn't seem to stop them though. And I know that at least in some states if you are deemed mentally unstable you can't own a firearm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 19, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:39:30 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)



AR 15s are not high powered assault rifles.  They fire intermediate cartridges (5.56 mm or .223 cal. or both.)

After the most recent shooting, all of the news retards kept saying he used a high caliber or high poser rifle and had lots of clips.  5.56 is not high caliber, and I could imagine him loading a magazine over and over with stripper clips, lol. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.


A stolen gun costs $50
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 19, 2018, 02:43:07 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.

That's awesome you have a 3D printer!

The first gun ever made didn't work that well either. As 3D printing becomes more common and sophisticated, better and better guns will start being produced.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
3D printing is going to render gun control obsolete. Anyone will download any gun they want and print it off. God help us!

I have a 3d printer.  I've taken a look at the plans but I've never tried printing it and using it.  I'm struggling to see the usefulness of this particular firearm.  It takes a few metal parts so it can't pass a metal detector.  Its single shot, as in one shot and the plastic will melt.  It has terrible accuracy.

I guess it would be good for terrorist who are really broke.

It is already legal to machine your own gun parts, including the part that would normally be used to track firearms or even the entire firearm if you chose.   Not exactly plastic, but I think I remember someone printing a plastic lower receiver (the only component that has a serial number on an AR).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 02:52:57 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)



AR 15s are not high powered assault rifles.  They fire intermediate cartridges (5.56 mm or .223 cal. or both.)

After the most recent shooting, all of the news retards kept saying he used a high caliber or high poser rifle and had lots of clips.  5.56 is not high caliber, and I could imagine him loading a magazine over and over with stripper clips, lol.

I am not talking about the weapon used in this instance specifically, but the firepower available to almost anyone without question because of this 2nd amendment is unbelievably ridiculous.

You have people blowing each other away in traffic because someone may have accidently cut someone else off. We are abhorred at the fact 17 people died in the school that day. More than double that is murdered by a gun every single day. It is out of control

Thank God, Australia came to its senses before we crossed a point of no return. It's too late for America now. All you can do is manage the problem with more token background checks. I'm not sure how you fix your culture. Maybe not giving these losers notoriety for a start.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 03:01:29 PM
And how would that prevent me from purchasing a gun legally and shooting up a school or something?
Because the licenses you need would ensure you're not the kind of person who shoots up schools. The person who did this wouldn't have been able to buy guns, or at least gain access to that much ammunition. Also I think these riffles should just be banned altogether.

I have no criminal record, no history of mental illness, no social media posts alluding to anything(besides this one), so what's to stop me from buying a handgun and 15 bullets and going into a school and shooting 15 people?

Your sanity and reason. Most people are normal. But lets say you had a schizophrenia, a violent criminal record and had social media posts saying you wanted to kill everyone - should you be able to walk in and buy a gun? Or would you say that violates the constitution?

Anyway, what if the author of that 2nd amendment didn't actually mean high powered assault rifles and actual bear arms instead? :)

(http://minglemediamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.jpeg)



AR 15s are not high powered assault rifles.  They fire intermediate cartridges (5.56 mm or .223 cal. or both.)

After the most recent shooting, all of the news retards kept saying he used a high caliber or high poser rifle and had lots of clips.  5.56 is not high caliber, and I could imagine him loading a magazine over and over with stripper clips, lol.

I am not talking about the weapon used in this instance specifically, but the firepower available to almost anyone without question because of this 2nd amendment is unbelievably ridiculous.

You have people blowing each other away in traffic because someone may have accidently cut someone else off. We are abhorred at the fact 17 people died in the school that day. More than double that is murdered by a gun every single day. It is out of control

Thank God, Australia came to its senses before we crossed a point of no return. It's too late for America now. All you can do is manage the problem with more token background checks. I'm not sure how you fix your culture. Maybe not giving these losers notoriety for a start.

Cities like Chicago, Baltimore, and Detroit all have some of the strictest gun laws in the country and their murder rate is the highest in the country.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:08:53 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-assault-weapons-ban-gun-violence-experts-say/?utm_term=.4928145d16e5

Also, the murder rate isn't the same as the mass shooting rate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
All the previous assault weapons bans did was make it harder to buy a weapon with a bayonet stud or pistol grip.  It did nothing to reduce gun violence and crimes.  Why bring it back? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:20:57 PM
Well they could make it as hard to buy an AR-15 as it is to buy a handgun, at least. An AR-15 is a luxury weapon, you don't need it to hunt, it's just for showing off or killing a bunch of people. Why not make people wait 3 days and have a real background check? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:23:20 PM
Which mass shooting would have been prevented if the shooter had to wait 3 days? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
Which mass shooting would have been prevented if the shooter had to wait 3 days?

It's one of those things we can never get concrete information or statistics on. I guess its designed to stop buying and acting on impulse.

Its one of those things. the fraction of a percent of people ruin it for the 99+% that wouldn't do anything wrong with it
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:33:10 PM
Which mass shooting had the shooter impulse buy the firearm within 3 days of the shooting? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:33:32 PM
How can we find out if it helps if we're not willing to try?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:35:00 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
We tried back in the 90s with the Brady Bill and it did not work.  Why try the same thing twice?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 19, 2018, 03:39:39 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.

Then he would have used his pistols and other guns to do it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:40:00 PM
Why would it have to be exactly the same as the Brady Bill? Are you sure there's nothing we can do to try to stop this? How about not allowing sales of guns to people on the terrorist watch list? Is that out of bounds, too?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
Which mass shooting had the shooter impulse buy the firearm within 3 days of the shooting?

Is that 3 day wait designed only for mass shooters or any improper use of a gun?

Imagine a husband coming home to find Heiwa banging his wife.... Now that alone could put you over the edge. If you didn't already have a gun, you might decide to drive to the nearest gun store, purchase the biggest, baddest weapon and come home and blow them both away (and then yourself because you cant live with the fact you cant unsee Heiwa's nakedness). Now if you had to wait 3 days, maybe you might have calmed down to be more rational.

Of course, if you already owned a gun like most Americans anyway, you wouldn't need to go to a store - you'd go and do the deed right there on the spot.

Of course these gestures are tokenistic, but there needs to be some level of control over it that extends beyond the buyer
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:41:17 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.

Then he would have used his pistols and other guns to do it.

How many pistols and other guns did he have?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:44:18 PM
Nikolas Cruz would have had to wait a couple years to buy an AR-15 if they were regulated the same as handguns.

Then he would have used his pistols and other guns to do it.

How many pistols and other guns did he have?

I think he was joking about reducing the restrictions on pistols to the level of ARs. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Well, apparently he had 7 other rifles, but the articles I've found doesn't say what kind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 03:53:05 PM
Why would it have to be exactly the same as the Brady Bill? Are you sure there's nothing we can do to try to stop this? How about not allowing sales of guns to people on the terrorist watch list? Is that out of bounds, too?

The Brady  Bill was the only national restrictions on "assault rifles."  Your article called for bringing back restrictions on "assault rifles." 

As far as terrorist watchlists go, my concern is that you would not know your are on the list untill your try to fly or by a firearm, and once you are on there, getting off could take years and a lot of money to lawyers.  Lots of normal people ended up on the lists and it ruined their lives.  Relatively few actual terrorists get on the list, and it is unknown if the list has actually stopped any terroristic crimes from happening.  People on the list not be allowed to drive or buy kitchen knives because they might commit terror with those items?  If the FBI suspects someone of being a terrorist, they should arrest them and prosecute them, not put them on a list.   

If I remember right, there was even a legislator or two who ended up on the list.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 04:02:41 PM
I wonder if the FBI could put us all on a watch list of sorts for some of the shit we post in the AR boards lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:04:44 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.

The problem is that there is no due process for being put on that list.  You are not suspected of commiting a crime and you are not suspected of planning to commit a crime.  You are only a suspected of being a suspicious person.  We can't take rights away from people on hunches. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:06:06 PM
I wonder if the FBI could put us all on a watch list of sorts for some of the shit we post in the AR boards lol

I don't think that "NO U!" qualifies to be put on the watchlist.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 19, 2018, 04:07:43 PM
Headline article on the Conservative Tribune
(https://s9.postimg.org/kp8m9bqfj/Conservative_Tribune.png)

Ok,  so what was she lying about.  Ah.. it's a tweet about gun statistics.   Here is the Tweet

Quote from: Hillary Clinton Tweet
Hillary Clinton
@HillaryClinton
This week we lost 17 Americans in Parkland - the deadliest school shooting since Sandy Hook in 2012. Since then, 438 people have been shot and 138 killed in over 230 school shootings. That’s 5 school shootings every month, 16 of which classify as “mass shootings.”

So,  what's wrong with that?  I hear you ask.

Quote from: https://conservativetribune.com/hillary-clinton-school-shootings/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=conservative-brief&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content=conservative-tribune
“Since then, 438 people have been shot and 138 killed in over 230 school shootings. That’s 5 school shootings every month, 16 of which classify as ‘mass shootings.’”
Note that last sentence, which may seem a bit ambiguous or confusing to you.


As The Washington Post notes, that statistic is from Everytown for Gun Safety, a heavily astroturfed, left-wing, gun control group. And its statistics on school shootings were so misleading that even the WaPo — hardly a den of covert NRA activity — wrote an article about the group’s statistics bluntly titled, “No, there haven’t been 18 school shootings in 2018. That number is flat wrong.”
“The figure originated with Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit group, co-founded by Michael Bloomberg, that works to prevent gun violence and is most famous for its running tally of school shootings,” the newspaper reported.

Umm... she never said there have been 18 school shootings in 2018?

Once again the right wing nutters,  shoot themselves in the foot,  by illustrating that they are deliberately lying knowing that the average reader just skims the headlines.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.

The problem is that there is no due process for being put on that list.  You are not suspected of commiting a crime and you are not suspected of planning to commit a crime.  You are only a suspected of being a suspicious person.  We can't take rights away from people on hunches.

I agree the watch list is bad right now, but even if we weren't talking about guns that watch list thing is worth fixing. We need to fix things and not give up on them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 04:11:28 PM
Well, apparently he had 7 other rifles, but the articles I've found doesn't say what kind.


Ones with much less scary names.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:14:58 PM
I agree that they should allow people to contest being on the watch list, but it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to figure out.

The problem is that there is no due process for being put on that list.  You are not suspected of commiting a crime and you are not suspected of planning to commit a crime.  You are only a suspected of being a suspicious person.  We can't take rights away from people on hunches.

I agree the watch list is bad right now, but even if we weren't talking about guns that watch list thing is worth fixing. We need to fix things and not give up on them.

The watch list has been around for nearly 2 decades.  It was broken from the start and has barely gotten better with time.  Like I said, if you suspect someone of being a terrorist, just arrest and prosecute them.  Then, you won't have to worry about them buying a gun or flying. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:15:38 PM
Why can't we get our fearless leaders to do anything worthwhile.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 04:21:09 PM
Why can't we get our fearless leaders to do anything worthwhile.

At least with Trump, you knew where he stands and that nothing of substance on the matter will get done

With Obama, he simply filled the room with hot air, empty promises and a disingenuous caring about the problem. It's easy to look like a good guy when your talking about a mass murderer. Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:21:49 PM
THANKS OBAMA!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:23:16 PM
This rifle shoots the exact same bullet as the AR 15.  If is not black and scarry looking with a collapsible stock and pistol grips, but it has a comparable rate of fire and magazines with the same number of rounds.  Where do we stop with the restrictions? 

(http://images.extrabullet.com/img/guns/83013.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 04:29:12 PM
My brother has an AR that is camouflage, you can't see him when he carries it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 04:30:12 PM
This rifle shoots the exact same bullet as the AR 15.  If is not black and scarry looking with a collapsible stock and pistol grips, but it has a comparable rate of fire and magazines with the same number of rounds.  Where do we stop with the restrictions? 

(http://images.extrabullet.com/img/guns/83013.jpg)

Simply bump up the age to 25. This is the age when the brain (especially in males) has finished developing especially in the area which deals with reason and consequences

If you want to play with guns before then, join the military (might bump up your conscription rates too)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:30:26 PM
By the way, that rifle is a mini 14 and is used quite often to stop coyotes from eating your live stock or drug smugglers from trafficing across your property. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 19, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.

(https://s9.postimg.org/c893yne3j/sandyhook.png)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 04:34:02 PM
Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.

(https://s9.postimg.org/c893yne3j/sandyhook.png)

Meets Sandy Hook victims for hours - does nothing anyway

Sat alone in the classroom - with the addition of a photographer

Attends a party
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 04:35:48 PM
Did Obama give a shit about the kids at Sandy Hook? Nope.

(https://s9.postimg.org/c893yne3j/sandyhook.png)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html)


Obama was not alone in the classroom.



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 04:37:50 PM
Sat alone in a classroom with a photographer to document his tears. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 19, 2018, 04:39:06 PM
Sat alone in a classroom with a photographer to document his tears.

After talking to the parents for hours. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 04:40:42 PM
Sat alone in a classroom with a photographer to document his tears.

After talking to the parents for hours. 


That's about as token of a gesture as Trump skipping golf
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 19, 2018, 04:41:47 PM
Imagine a husband coming home to find Heiwa banging his wife....

I offer €1M to anyone who can prove that this is even remotely possible. Only twerps believe Heiwa can even get it up anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 19, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Maybe he has a penis pump.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 19, 2018, 05:16:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWbZB00X4AY1QR6.jpg)

I know we ain't supposed to talk about Fight Club, but maybe these mass shootings are what happens when people get very very pissed off and feel there's nothing they can do about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 19, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWbZB00X4AY1QR6.jpg)

I know we ain't supposed to talk about Fight Club, but maybe these mass shootings are what happens when people get very very pissed off and feel there's nothing they can do about it.

We tell this generation that they are special and they can do and be whatever they want to be. Then reality bites them and they realise they are but a pleb among billions and that they cant be whatever they want and there are no prizes for simply turning up.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 19, 2018, 09:51:13 PM
Over the past 50 years the number of fire arms restrictions has increased.
Over the past 50 years the number of mass murder events has increased.

Mass murderers do not appear to care about laws.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 02:35:34 AM
Just watched fox news Bullwinkle? I nearly thought you had an original idea.

I do agree with the talking point however. Your problems are so much deeper than access to guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 03:37:47 AM
Just gonna post this video again, we can all laugh it off and pretend like nothing is wrong but deep down we know something is fundamentally wrong with the world. We just can't quite put our finger on it.



The people that actually try and address real issues instead of this stale bread and circus which has become our daily lives are ridiculed and called conspiracy nutters or worse by people who really, truly don't care about any of us as humans and never ever will.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 20, 2018, 03:48:54 AM
Just gonna post this video again, we can all laugh it off and pretend like nothing is wrong but deep down we know something is fundamentally wrong with the world. We just can't quite put our finger on it.



The people that actually try and address real issues instead of this stale bread and circus which has become our daily lives are ridiculed and called conspiracy nutters or worse by people who really, truly don't care about any of us as humans and never ever will.
Lol, 25mins of robo-voice. My ass.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 04:29:21 AM
Exactly, laugh it off.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 20, 2018, 05:31:24 AM
Just gonna post this video again
Here's a thought: why don't you try expressing your own ideas in words, rather than linking some embarrassing video?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 20, 2018, 05:41:39 AM
Yep, if the vid has something important in it, then write it down here. But don't expect anyone to waste 25min on mr robovoice.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 05:56:42 AM
Because I get tired of trying. Plus most of this website is bots.

Stop watching T.V.
Think for yourself.
Treat others how you want to be treated.

I don't care if you don't watch it. If I raised any points I would just be ridiculed by bots, and that gets boring for me.

You guys don't like discussion of real issues here, we broke your playground a little. Feelsgoodman.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 20, 2018, 06:06:35 AM
Plus most of this website is bots.
Right.  Of course.  Yet here you are.

Quote
Stop watching T.V.  youtube
Think for yourself.
fixed

Quote
I don't care if you don't watch it.
Well, don't link it and tell people to watch it then.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 20, 2018, 06:24:41 AM
t. Bot
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 20, 2018, 07:56:01 AM
I don't care if you don't watch it. If I raised any points I would just be ridiculed by bots, and that gets boring for me.

You guys don't like discussion of real issues here, we broke your playground a little. Feelsgoodman.
If you don't have the balls you can pm it to me. Then no bot will ridicule you (except if you think that I'm a bot, but we both know I'm not, because no bot could ever be that smart).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 20, 2018, 09:30:35 AM
t. Bot
That it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Papa Legba on February 20, 2018, 10:43:41 AM
I see Infowars are up to their usual journalistic standards.   https://www.infowars.com/report-florida-shooter-inspired-by-isis-allahu-akbar/

Twitter response to infowars.  https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

Meanwhile, the troll farm, and fake news sites are having a field day... https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/

Rayzor is an expert on every conspiracy theory and conspiracy forum on the entire internet, bar none, ever.

This does not make it look like an AI algorithm designed to patrol these places, spamming disinfo and wasting peoples time on as many as possible, oh no it does not!

kek
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 20, 2018, 06:44:01 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/20/trump-urges-ban-on-bump-stocks-other-gun-modifiers.html

There it is. President libtard has decided to go down the slippery slope that will definitely end with him taking away everyone's butter knives and giving back the country to the British.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 20, 2018, 06:59:19 PM
This post is adding nothing to the conversation.
I just think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is an awesome combo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 20, 2018, 07:03:28 PM
This post is adding nothing to the conversation.
I just think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is an awesome combo.

It is like a Saturday night in Alabama!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 20, 2018, 07:09:03 PM
Trump is supposed to be taking silencers off the NFA, not asking for more regulations.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 20, 2018, 11:20:37 PM
This post is adding nothing to the conversation.
I just think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is an awesome combo.

That would be quite a FEAT or FATE

Cue the sesame street song,  which of these things go together.   Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 21, 2018, 12:26:17 AM
I see Infowars are up to their usual journalistic standards.   https://www.infowars.com/report-florida-shooter-inspired-by-isis-allahu-akbar/

Twitter response to infowars.  https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

Meanwhile, the troll farm, and fake news sites are having a field day... https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/

Rayzor is an expert on every conspiracy theory and conspiracy forum on the entire internet, bar none, ever.

This does not make it look like an AI algorithm designed to patrol these places, spamming disinfo and wasting peoples time on as many as possible, oh no it does not!

kek

Topkek.

Those damn Russians defending the US constitution. What monsters they are for defending the US constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 21, 2018, 11:30:38 PM


I've gotta say no matter how much I detest Marco Rubio he has nuts of solid iron for facing those kids tonight.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:36:09 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 05:41:44 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

It's got all the hallmarks of a grass roots movement,  doesn't look to me like anyone is coaching them,  I think the NRA has lost already. 

Any politician who takes NRA money is going to be an easy target. 





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:46:55 AM
You just want their guns. It's been about that for so long now. These kids are scared and vulnerable currently and the American media is manipulating them into pushing the Intelligence agencies agenda. There's no other word for that except evil.

There's a quote I like from a movie it's something like this.

"What usually happens when people without guns stand up to people with guns?"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:52:54 AM
Lol I love how you try to add suspense under the post confirming you are invested in the Intelligence agencies agenda to pin this on Trump. It was the shooters fault and perhaps even more his parents fault, the schools fault for not trying to help the guy when he showed signs of sociopathy.

Trump inherited America's culture of mass shootings.

Your lack of concern for anything other than saving your on ass is palpable on this issue.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 05:56:20 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 05:58:43 AM
You just want their guns. It's been about that for so long now. These kids are scared and vulnerable currently and the American media is manipulating them into pushing the Intelligence agencies agenda. There's no other word for that except evil.

There's a quote I like from a movie it's something like this.

"What usually happens when people without guns stand up to people with guns?"

Yes, that's a simplistic solution, if you want to stop mass shootings take their guns away.  The chances of that happening are zero.

Do you seriously think Americans would support a nationwide AR15 buyback?  The political landscape in the USA currently, is that Republicans hold all the cards,  and  nothing is going to change until that changes.

BTW Take your dumb conspiracies elsewhere.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 05:59:26 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 06:04:06 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 06:04:35 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

Or, have I just red pilled you on the fake plight of the "Boers"?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:06:40 AM
You are both disgusting human beings, you really are.

Why were you both so quick to say "conspiracy" I didn't say anything except these kids are being used to push a political agenda which is also disgusting.

Now I get why you're both giddy.
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:07:50 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 06:08:37 AM
You are both disgusting human beings, you really are.

Why were you both so quick to say "conspiracy" I didn't say anything except these kids are being used to push a political agenda which is also disgusting.

Now I get why you're both giddy.
Nevermind.

I understand.  You're still processing the possibility that the "Boers" are completely made up to control you.  Give it some time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:09:33 AM
This thread is about the people that were shot and what can be done to fix your culture of mass shootings.

You really are disgusting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
You are both disgusting human beings, you really are.

Why were you both so quick to say "conspiracy" I didn't say anything except these kids are being used to push a political agenda which is also disgusting.

Now I get why you're both giddy.
Nevermind.

Um, it was you put forward the conspiracy theory that they were being coached by the media, and pushing the intelligence agencies agenda. 






Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 06:10:45 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?

You know you are so dumb sometimes it's almost painful.   But I'll get over it.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 06:11:55 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."
So there is no way these teens have been seeing years of school shootings and years of nothing being done afterward, and are simply tired of "thoughts and prayers" but little else?  You're completely dismissing them as nothing more than puppets incapable of free thought. THAT'S a pretty abhorrent stance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:13:29 AM
They're being paraded around the country with the Media giving them all their coverage. I don't think it's a conspiracy at this point.

The FBI is willing to do anything it can to discredit Trump before the truth of the Russian issue comes out and this is an example.

I think using survivors to push an agenda days after the event is disgusting but I care more about the people than "winning."

In that regard we will always be at a disadvantage to you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 22, 2018, 06:16:37 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."
I don't think they really require any coaching. A lot of them were probably already of that opinion, after what happened to them they wouldn't need much more convincing.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:16:48 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?

You know you are so dumb sometimes it's almost painful.   But I'll get over it.

You know you go from calling me smart to dumb depending on what you are trying to achieve?

Pick a stance and stick to it. Crutonius made a strawman argument and I pointed it out, you then claimed that my argument was the same as Crutonius'. Anyone can see this is incorrect. You're all in on a ten high card mate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: FalseProphet on February 22, 2018, 06:21:05 AM
They're being paraded around the country with the Media giving them all their coverage. I don't think it's a conspiracy at this point.

The FBI is willing to do anything it can to discredit Trump before the truth of the Russian issue comes out and this is an example.

I think using survivors to push an agenda days after the event is disgusting but I care more about the people than "winning."

In that regard we will always be at a disadvantage to you.

Who is "using them to push an agenda"? George Soros?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 06:21:52 AM
The way your media is coaching these kids is disgusting. It really is. Parading them around like animals.

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

I....

Hold on.  I think you might be onto something.  The gun control debate takes a lot of research and knowledge of the situation.  A lot of work to get a picture of what's really going on.

Or you could just save a ton of work and claim it's a conspiracy.

Wow!  Let me try;  The so called "farmer" in South Africa are just crisis actors hired to outrage "race realists" around the world to control them. 

Awesome.  That was so much easier than taking the time to study a country's history!  Thanks D1!.

Best
Strawman
Ever

LOL,  you just called your own argument a strawman,  classic d1

You know you don't actually make sense right?

You know you are so dumb sometimes it's almost painful.   But I'll get over it.

You know you go from calling me smart to dumb depending on what you are trying to achieve?

Pick a stance and stick to it. Crutonius made a strawman argument and I pointed it out, you then claimed that my argument was the same as Crutonius'. Anyone can see this is incorrect. You're all in on a ten high card mate.

I'm pretty sure I've always thought of you as dumb.   




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 06:40:45 AM
They're being paraded around the country with the Media giving them all their coverage. I don't think it's a conspiracy at this point.

The FBI is willing to do anything it can to discredit Trump before the truth of the Russian issue comes out and this is an example.

I think using survivors to push an agenda days after the event is disgusting but I care more about the people than "winning."

In that regard we will always be at a disadvantage to you.
The media are giving them a platform. I'll give you the fact that CNN and the likes are the ones providing that platform because their views align, but that's a far stretch to say they are being manipulated and used as propaganda.

This problem they are facing goes beyond Trump. It's frustration with all elected officials who refuse to do anything to try to address this issue. It just so happens isn't mostly GOP politicians who refuse to do anything and Trump is their figurehead currently.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:42:08 AM
What do you think will help duck?

It's fine to be upset, the shooting upset me. I'm not sure how this rally agaisnt Trump will save kids lives.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 06:59:00 AM
From what I've read, these marches aren't against Trump per se, but against legislators. The same legislators that's consistently say "thoughts and prayers" "now is not the right time" and then a few weeks after the tragedy has passed, they forget it ever happened and do nothing to try to find any sort of solutions.

As to what could prevent this, there are a few things that might curb some of the violence. Increase the age for semiautomatics to match the age for handguns, increase school funding specifically to put in security devices such as metal detectors and devices for class rooms to prevent the doors from opening, run live drills for active shooters at least twice in a school year with one being no less than a month into the start of the year. This is not an exhaustive list, there are so many other ways this issue could potentially be addressed, yet both state and federal legislators seem content to just give thoughts and prayers each time this happens.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 07:33:49 AM
What do you think will help duck?

It's fine to be upset, the shooting upset me. I'm not sure how this rally agaisnt Trump will save kids lives.

Oh we're off the conspiracy theories and back to policy now?

Option 1, do whatever you guys did to stop your problem with school shootings.

Option 2, follow the same path we used to sharply reduce the number of DUI related deaths.

Option 3(what we're doing now), do nothing and try to get used to hearing about children being massacred several times a year.



Edit;  Nevermind all that  .We'll just give guns to the teachers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/02/22/attacks-would-end-trump-expresses-support-for-raising-assault-rifle-age-to-21-presses-cases-for-arming-some-teachers/?utm_term=.b78fa11985eb

This is the problem with having a senile president.  He doesn't understand that this is teacher arming idea is just a distraction technique from the NRA and isn't meant to be seriously considered.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 22, 2018, 08:27:54 AM
On the other hand, raising the age you can own an assault riffle at 21 is a plus. Raising it to 210 would be even better but eh.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 22, 2018, 08:48:01 AM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 09:11:21 AM
I don't think there's any single law that's going to do the job.  I think it's something that's going to take a lot of work experimenting with different laws, studying the results and readjusting the approach.  All of the different factors such as mental health and society need to be considered as well.  It's a long boring slog to improve things.  This is all well within the government's ability.  They do this all the time with trying to find the balance between safety and freedom in most things.  The problem is this process can't be carried out when every time any legislation comes up with any gun restriction the NRA starts screaming "they're comin' to take away yer guns!".

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 22, 2018, 09:24:18 AM
I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 09:45:53 AM
I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

Welcome to the American government
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 22, 2018, 01:09:59 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it
I agree. Laws are for shit. Like seriously, every criminal ever disobeyed the law... that's 100% proof that laws are useless. We should abandon all laws. That'd even drop the crime rate by 100% - awesome!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 22, 2018, 01:21:50 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it
In this latest instance, it might have helped. The shooter was 19 and purchased the weapons himself.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 01:34:59 PM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

Not sure either. The people doing the mass killings aren't interested in the law. Just steal Mum or Dads gun - even kill them for it
In this latest instance, it might have helped. The shooter was 19 and purchased the weapons himself.

I agree in principle to increase the age limit. Actually my principles (growing up in a society where no one really has a gun and no one gives a shit about them) is to get rid of the damn things. I don't believe any society could have enlightenment when you allow everyone within it to have enough firepower to take out a small army.

America is waaaay past the point of no return. The guns are there to stay. I would say ban any 'assault' weapon until they are 25. That's when you can have relative assurance the brain is finished developing its reason and consequences bit. It also means most people (at that age) are well and truly done with their education

Why the hell does a teenager need the style of bullets that do so much damage? Let them have rubber ones. If someone pulled a gun on you, rubber or lead, you'd still run like hell away. Your self defence ability is not taken away from you but your killing ability is reduced

I think background checks should also be 'foreground' checks. If you are convicted of a violent crime, bye bye guns. Given how some people value their guns more than they value anything else, maybe they think twice before committing the crime? So you get your background check at 18 years old. Clean record. Grab whatever you like. Yet you an cause all sorts of mayhem that would ordinarily prevent you from owning the guns you bought and still get to keep them? Correct me if that is not the case but if that is the case that's pretty dumb

Obviously I come from a different mindset and different culture. I try to see both sides but am still dominated by my own feelings on it. The students calling for change wont get what they want because what they demand is too overreaching. Need to find a middle ground.

Also, had the FBI done their jobs this shit may never have happened. There is a system in place that could have prevented this from happening but for whatever reason it's broken.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
The problem is, no one wants to address the root of the issue and that is a deranged mentality that seems unique to certain people in the U.S.

Let's take everyone's​ guns...fine, then the nuts will kill people with vehicles...take all vehicles away, then they will kill people with fire, gas, explosives etc etc.

If you want the issue fixed, gotta figure out how to fix these people or spot them early. Yes, the majority in the US is deranged to an extent and it is fairly easy to spot how that happens, but we need to figure out why certain people take it to level 10.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 02:12:10 PM
I wish we could do something about all these lobbyists. Even if they promote something I agree with, they have too much power. Their interests shouldn't be put above the good of the country just because they have the money to buy politicians.

Conspiracy nutter. No politician is bought and they never ever lie. (Except GRUYMPTHF.)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 22, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
Part of Shifter's Post

"I think background checks should also be 'foreground' checks. If you are convicted of a violent crime, bye bye guns. Given how some people value their guns more than they value anything else, maybe they think twice before committing the crime? So you get your background check at 18 years old. Clean record. Grab whatever you like. Yet you an cause all sorts of mayhem that would ordinarily prevent you from owning the guns you bought and still get to keep them? Correct me if that is not the case but if that is the case that's pretty dumb"

It is already illegal for a convicted felon to possessa firearm, and they can't even buy a gun. That still desn't stop plenty of felons from obtaining guns from other means.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 03:36:07 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 03:42:47 PM
What a chicken shit. Defensive position??? More like a cowards position.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 04:19:01 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

I refuse to pay that shit media organization to read the link.

No idea what it says
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 04:24:04 PM
Hmm, I was able to access it. Guess they don't care about overseas people reading in?

Quote
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The armed school resource officer assigned to protect students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School took a defensive position outside the school and did not enter the building while the shooter was killing students and teachers inside with an AR-15 assault-style rifle, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Thursday.

Israel said he suspended School Resource Deputy Scot Peterson on Thursday after seeing a video from the Parkland, Fla., school that showed Peterson outside the school building where the shooter was inside and attacking.

“What I saw was a deputy arrive at the west side of Building 12, take up a position, and never went in,” Israel said.


He said Peterson was armed, and was in uniform, and should have gone into the building during the 6-minute event, which left 17 people, most of them teenagers, dead. When asked what the deputy should have done, Israel said: “Went in and addressed the killer. Killed the killer.”

[ What police are trained to do during active shooter incidents: Find the threat ]

Peterson, 54, a resource officer at the school since 2009, resigned after Israel suspended him. Israel said two other officers have been placed on a restricted assignment pending an internal investigation relating the school shooting.


“They could have done more, they should have done more,” Israel said. “It’s a fluid investigation. They are on restrictive duty.”

Attempts to reach Peterson on Thursday were unsuccessful.

Israel said that Peterson was in an office dealing with a school-related issue when the first shots were fired on Feb. 14 and that he got on his radio and then moved toward the outside of the building where the shooting was taking place. When asked what he is seen doing on the video, Israel replied: “Nothing.”

“I think he took up a position where it looked like he could see the western-most entry into the building and stayed where he was,” Israel said. “Never went in.”

[ The FBI said it failed to act on a tip about the suspected Florida school shooter’s potential for violence ]

Israel said he “clearly” knew there was a shooter inside, something that made him “sick to my stomach.”

“There are no words,” Israel said. “These families lost their children. We lost coaches. I’ve been to the funerals. I’ve been to the homes where they’re sitting shiva. I’ve been to the vigils. It’s just, there are no words.”


The revelation about the deputy comes as law enforcement officials and authorities have faced intense criticism for whether they missed previous chances to prevent the massacre. The FBI was warned last month about the shooter’s potential for violence at a school, but failed to investigate that tip, while school officials, social services investigators and the sheriff’s office had multiple encounters or troubling warnings about him over the years.

Israel’s description of Peterson as an armed, trained officer who was present for a mass killing but did not confront the shooter also comes as President Trump, in response to the Parkland massacre, has suggested arming teachers as a way to deter possible threats, while the National Rifle Association has also pushed for more armed guards in schools.

Trump has frequently suggested in response to mass shootings that more law-abiding people with firearms could help stop a shooter and the head of the NRA has repeatedly suggested the same. However, Israel’s announcement Thursday suggested that even if a person is armed, trained and available to help, that may not stop a mass killing that unfolds in a matter of minutes.


[ The lives lost in the Parkland shooting ]

The deputy’s decision to remain outside breaks with police tactics for responding to active-shooting incidents. Ever since the 1999 attack at Colorado’s Columbine High School, authorities have emphasized the importance of pursuing the attacker or attackers quickly in an effort to eliminate the threat and prevent additional deaths.

“Columbine resulted in new approaches in which patrol officers are being trained to respond to active shooters as quickly as possible,” the Police Executive Research Forum, a think tank backed by major-cities chiefs, wrote in a 2014 report.

Of course, this approach brings with it inherent issues, the report continued, because “a faster response is more dangerous to responding officers. Patrol officers who quickly move to confront an active shooter face a high likelihood of being shot themselves.”

Officers involved in responding to these shootings have later described the terror they felt. A report released by the Justice Department after the San Bernardino, Calif., terror attack quoted an officer who described checking room after room in the conference center where the shooting occurred, expecting to find the shooters behind the final doors.


“I don’t want to say I made peace, but I was ready to go,” the officer said. “We got into one room, and it was empty. We had a quick breath, and in we went to the last room. I was never so excited to not see anybody.”

Reviews like that Justice Department study are regularly conducted after mass shootings, allowing officials to study how officers responded in order to determine what others can improve upon. Following the shooting rampages at the Washington Navy Yard, a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., and the Virginia Tech campus, authorities reviewed what they did and sought ways to improve future responses.

Peterson is mentioned as part of a 2016 social services agency investigation into Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old identified by police as the gunman. According to a Florida Department of Children and Families report detailing that investigation, Peterson was approached by investigators and “refused to share any information … regarding [an] incident that took place with” the teenager.

Berman reported from Washington. This story has been updated.


Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 04:31:42 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pn-fladeputy-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a6977519f255

You had one job.  They might as well have put a scarecrow in a police uniform.

I refuse to pay that shit media organization to read the link.

No idea what it says

Here Bhs this gives them no money. It's a good website just copy the url into the box provided and press archive.

http://archive.is/5mT7O
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 22, 2018, 04:34:26 PM
Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 22, 2018, 04:45:47 PM

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign



What a police officer is legally required to do is an interesting legal question.

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Yeah I don't know what to think of that.  Maybe he's really there as a deterrent. But it kind of makes me think about the idea of having armed security there.  I mean if they can choose not to get into a gun fight then I don't know how useful they are in a situation like this.

My bad about linking to wapo.  I like them but the paywalls and the length of the link is cumbersome.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 04:55:28 PM

Seems to me, if everybody just did their jobs in the first place you could keep the 2nd amendment as is and wouldn't have this big of a problem. FBI sitting on their hands and coward police officer, maniacs have free reign



What a police officer is legally required to do is an interesting legal question.

Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

Yeah I don't know what to think of that.  Maybe he's really there as a deterrent. But it kind of makes me think about the idea of having armed security there.  I mean if they can choose not to get into a gun fight then I don't know how useful they are in a situation like this.

My bad about linking to wapo.  I like them but the paywalls and the length of the link is cumbersome.

The dilemma is you have a rent a cop guy who isn't properly trained to deal with situations like this. As school shootings is a real and sadly common occurrence, it is something he should be prepared for every day he goes to work. It's not enough to assume that you can stand there and look intimidating (their main role) and on the small chance shit hits the fan, not do your job because you gambled it would never happen.

Also I don't now what the security guards payment is like over there but if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys.

There is a system in place but seems largely broken and vulnerable. Also the root cause of why people are driven to do these horrible atrocities needs to be figured out and stopped. If you have a cancer, you cut out the cancer. Not treat the symptoms.
 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 05:23:50 PM
Wow...that is not cool. I mean he was just a school cop, not like he walked a beat or had any real world experience. Probably just took the job as a gravy job hassling teenagers. When shit got real he froze.

Definitely not making an excuse for him, he should not be able to work as an officer or even security guard again.

However, if he has humanity inside of him, there is nothing we can do to punish him more than what he will do to himself. Knowing he could have saved multiple people and didn't from fear. That will end up killing him unless he is a sociopath.

For once,  I agree,  you can't know in advance who will run, who will fight and who will freeze.   Intensive training can help,  so that it becomes a reflex action to fight.

That guy will live with this for the rest of his life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 06:23:05 PM
That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 22, 2018, 06:33:17 PM
That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

Unless you train for a specific situation and can respond without thinking,  you can't tell in advance who is going to flee,fight or freeze.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 22, 2018, 06:47:58 PM
That's not true, you make the choice to either do the right thing which is hard and dangerous or the wrong thing which is safe and easy
I have no doubt you are well aware of this.

Unless you train for a specific situation and can respond without thinking,  you can't tell in advance who is going to flee,fight or freeze.

You had teachers in the school throwing themselves in between the bullets and the kids. You have a guy paid and armed to protect the kids except he waited it out probably hoping the killer would kill himself.

Defensive position my arse. He uses that language in a pathetic attempt to pretend he was doing his job.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 22, 2018, 08:06:13 PM
Bravery isn't a lack of fear, bravery is doing what's right regardless of fear.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 12:32:04 AM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

I would argue no guns at all until 21. It's different here you're a full adult at 18. Personally I do think 18 is a little young to be classed as an adult but that's what we've done and it works.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 23, 2018, 02:06:36 AM
I am for raising the age to 21 for semi-autos.  I am not sure how much good it will do, but it is better than doing nothing.

I would argue no guns at all until 21. It's different here you're a full adult at 18. Personally I do think 18 is a little young to be classed as an adult but that's what we've done and it works.

Total nationwide AR15 buy back for the win.

I predict that d1 would be a flee, rather than a fight.   He doesn't have that inner strength to be a fighter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:54:36 AM
Lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:56:38 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 04:25:31 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.


That's not really surprising. That's how TV works. Seriously, it happens with everything, on every channel and for any interview or debate. I know it's a bit ridiculous but it's not new.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 04:33:40 AM
I know man.

It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 05:43:21 AM
Sigh... and we're back to conspiracy theories now.  That's too bad.  I was enjoying the policy discussion.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:47:03 AM
See DNO?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:49:12 AM
Listen to the man Crutonius he isn't wrong.

Your media circus is falling apart btw.


That's not really surprising. That's how TV works. Seriously, it happens with everything, on every channel and for any interview or debate. I know it's a bit ridiculous but it's not new.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 05:49:27 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:51:30 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 06:26:54 AM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 06:59:24 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
I know what an aneurysm is, but I didn't quite catch the connection/why you mention an aneurysm here.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 07:14:13 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
I know what an aneurysm is, but I didn't quite catch the connection/why you mention an aneurysm here.

D1 wildly overestimates his ability to troll people.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 07:18:08 AM
Considering the response of the security guard, I question whether armed teachers would be effective overall.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 23, 2018, 07:34:10 AM
Like any other group of people there would be some who could handle it, but probably most couldn't. They'd need extensive training. This would cost many millions of dollars, imo. Our govt doesn't want to fund public schools properly for education, but I could see the politicians in the NRA's pocket being willing to spend money on this.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 07:48:14 AM
It's just a when I pointed it out I think Crutonius had a small aneurysm.
Lol what?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurysm
I know what an aneurysm is, but I didn't quite catch the connection/why you mention an aneurysm here.

D1 wildly overestimates his ability to troll people.
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 09:54:24 AM
I have no idea why people are even considering arming teachers as a solution. That's just fucked up. If you're willing to go to such extremes, it's better to just stipulate checks for everyone before they enter the school.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 09:56:34 AM
I have no idea why people are even considering arming teachers as a solution. That's just fucked up. If you're willing to go to such extremes, it's better to just stipulate checks for everyone before they enter the school.
Well what if a teacher goes mad and starts shooting at his students?
My solution would be to arm the students too. I bet dispute trump and bhs would agree.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 10:15:36 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 23, 2018, 10:30:02 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Before we ban them, we need to implement some sort of rating system for games and movies so that children won't be subjected to the violence in rated R movies or rated M games.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on February 23, 2018, 10:31:16 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.

I agree. I have been playing violent video games and watching violent movies my whole life and I have no inclination to commit a violent act.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 10:45:35 AM
I don't play video games and rarely watch movies, but there is something so satisfying about kicking puppies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 11:14:54 AM
I don't play video games and rarely watch movies, but there is something so satisfying about kicking puppies.
Lol

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Well everyone in the entire world plays videogames and watches violent movies, but it's mostly americans who shoot up schools. Not sure why they think the link makes sense.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 11:16:38 AM
I don't play video games and rarely watch movies, but there is something so satisfying about kicking puppies.
Lol

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies/

We must arm everyone and ban video games and movies.  There's no study that's ever linked gun violence to video games but fuck it.  That's an NRA talking point so Trump has to mindlessly parrot it.
Well everyone in the entire world plays videogames and watches violent movies, but it's mostly americans who shoot up schools. Not sure why they think the link makes sense.
For the same reason why they are shooting up schools:
Lot's of retards there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 23, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
The media is really excited about this kid's invention http://kfor.com/2018/02/20/students-invention-to-keep-intruders-out-of-classrooms-is-so-brilliant-that-his-district-has-ordered-one-for-every-room/  Kinda makes me wonder how easy it would be used to trap students inside a classroom, tho. I guess nothing is perfect.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 11:29:43 AM
The media is really excited about this kid's invention http://kfor.com/2018/02/20/students-invention-to-keep-intruders-out-of-classrooms-is-so-brilliant-that-his-district-has-ordered-one-for-every-room/  Kinda makes me wonder how easy it would be used to trap students inside a classroom, tho. I guess nothing is perfect.
BRILLIANT!!! It's... a glorified latch... That's costlier and harder to put on than a normal latch... And it looks like you can't use it for every door... Huh...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 23, 2018, 11:37:17 AM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.

I told him you were a sniveling cowardly little weasel...he will realize it on his own soon enough.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: totallackey on February 23, 2018, 01:24:52 PM
A country where police do not perform regular walking beats and virtually eliminated the national funding for mental health and substance abuse treatment should not be surprised at these types of mass violence incidents.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 02:33:49 PM
Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.
And you know why?
Because unlike you he is capable of understanding when I'm sarcastic/not serious.
Perhaps after your next date he could give you a lesson about it (instead of the d).
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 02:56:16 PM
Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.


TBH, sometimes you are difficult to filter.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 02:58:54 PM

TBH, sometimes you are difficult to filter.   ;)

This.

Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.

But I am curious though since I have not seen one of these studies of which you speak.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 03:02:57 PM
Also seeing violence on television absolutely desensitises you to violence. Heaps of studies have been done on this, I'm not sure why we have to lie about it. I've linked to them multiple times and was called a conspiracy nutter by the usual suspects.
It's not like dulling is a new or unknown phenomen. But of course dulling is not absolute.

Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 23, 2018, 03:04:59 PM
Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.
Because bullying won't make people feel like victims eh? Good riddance with bullying, it's what makes a lot of kids outcasts in their own school to begin with. And the bully is always in the wrong, so long as it really is bullying. The problem is that the kids don't think they can get help from anyone but themselves. And is important to change your situation on your own, but the ugly reality is that sometimes it's just not possible to do it completely alone.

But yeah, it's stupid to say that it's the fault of the rest of society or the whole school. And if you're in a position to do so, try to support them or encourage them to seek support.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:10:07 PM
A little bit of Bullying is good for kids. As I said I never had a male role model and copping shit on construction sites genuinely helped me. Really nasty bullying is wrong however. The kids should be taught to stand up for themselves instead of relying on the state.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 03:11:54 PM
Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.

You are trying to bully me.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 03:13:23 PM
Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.

You are trying to bully me.   ;)
No, I'm just telling you how it is.

If you feel bullied, leave this website and you are done with it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 03:14:24 PM
Let's compromise.  Bullying, no.  Gaslighting, yes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 23, 2018, 03:18:10 PM
You could at least roast a weenie on a gaslight.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 03:20:12 PM
Let's compromise.  Bullying, no.  Gaslighting, yes.

Mental health is the common denominator in all these shootings. Yet you want to take away citizens right to defend themselves instead of treating the sociopathy issue of your population.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 23, 2018, 03:23:10 PM
A little bit of Bullying is good for kids.
Nope. Hardships, sure. Bullying is completely unnecessary.

As I said I never had a male role model and copping shit on construction sites genuinely helped me. Really nasty bullying is wrong however. The kids should be taught to stand up for themselves instead of relying on the state.
I'll say it once again: Sometimes it's impossible to do anything about it completely alone. Or well, it's not, there's an easy solution to all this: Shoot up your bullies. Can't believe I didn't think about that ;). And no kid is being told to rely on the state, they are told to rely on teachers and grown ups, people who are mature and should be able to help. But I'd wager that too many adults either give the same advice you do: "Just do something about it yourself", don't want to intervene, or won't know what to do. In these cases, the only way to stand up for oneself is to seek support in others.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 23, 2018, 03:23:16 PM
Let's compromise.  Bullying, no.  Gaslighting, yes.

Mental health is the common denominator in all these shootings. Yet you want to take away citizens right to defend themselves instead of treating the sociopathy issue of your population.

And you want to take away our gaslights.  How are we supposed to roast weenies?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 03:24:15 PM
Quote
Bring back bullying.
You are a garbage person.

You are trying to bully me.   ;)
No, I'm just telling you how it is.

If you feel bullied, leave this website and you are done with it.


Sounds like more bullying to me.   ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 23, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.
I'm pretty sure what you just described will do much more harm than good.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 04:44:17 PM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.
I'm pretty sure what you just described will do much more harm than good.


Which part. I was kind of all over the place.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 05:56:51 PM
Boys should all be taught boxing / Muay Thai. It's good for them and a healthy way to channel aggression and masculinity.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 23, 2018, 06:11:36 PM
Because getting oiled up and rubbing your bits on on other males is a clear sign of heterophilia.

Let's wrassle!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 23, 2018, 06:16:57 PM
Boys should all be taught boxing / Muay Thai. It's good for them and a healthy way to channel aggression and masculinity.
Different people deal with aggression in different ways. And I don’t think it’s about learning a certain style of martial arts, but more about doing some general activity that is intensive and involves determination as well as explosive releases of energy.

I don’t know what you mean by ”channeling masculinity”.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on February 23, 2018, 06:19:45 PM


I don’t know what you mean by ”channeling masculinity”.

It's code for "I'm deep in the closet, but I'm still gonna get my rocks off".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 06:29:58 PM
I mean that men are more aggressive than women in general and on average.

Boxing helps men channel their aggression in healthy ways.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 23, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/B599KdZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 23, 2018, 06:42:43 PM
You gotta watch that I did BJJ for years. The trick is wearing ear protection.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 23, 2018, 11:10:33 PM
So because you think it helped with your aggression and masculinity problems, everyone should do it.
Hmm...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 24, 2018, 01:03:10 AM
A mass shooting involves 0.00000003% of guns in the USofA and one 100% insane person.

We have an absolute right to self defense and courts to determine if that right was used properly.

There is no constitutional right to be a menace to society.

Bring back bullying. It puts weak minded people in their place early on in life. They need to get used to being low man on the totem pole and adapt.

If you tell a kid who doesn't quite fit in that it is everyone else's fault, you plant the seed that they are a victim.

Instead, council the kid on how to fit in. Direct them to clubs or activities that they are capable of fitting into.

Life is tough. If someone is isolated from reality until they are in their late teens, they are going to be ill-equipped to handle anything.
I'm pretty sure what you just described will do much more harm than good.


Which part. I was kind of all over the place.

The bullying part.
Boys should all be taught boxing / Muay Thai. It's good for them and a healthy way to channel aggression and masculinity.
Because video games and violent movies make kids violent, but there is no way violent sports can do that for some kids.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 24, 2018, 02:07:57 AM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.

I told him you were a sniveling cowardly little weasel...he will realize it on his own soon enough.

Actually,  you are the only person that attacks him relentlessly,  you are so blinkered that you never even realize when he's trolling you. 

The rest of us,  think it's pretty hilarious.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Master_Evar on February 24, 2018, 02:16:12 AM
I mean that men are more aggressive than women in general and on average.

Boxing helps men channel their aggression in healthy ways.

While that might be true in general, it still varies from person to person. There are plenty of girls that are more aggressive than a large portion of boys. I also think that you might be mistaking aggression for frustration, and there are a ton of ways other than agressive sports to deal with frustration. Few people have to deal with aggression specifically.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 24, 2018, 02:17:58 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 24, 2018, 05:06:23 AM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Well this isn't really a refutation, this is just CNN saying "we didn't do it". Of course we can't really know for sure what happened unless the rest of the participants say something about it.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 24, 2018, 05:15:28 PM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Well this isn't really a refutation, this is just CNN saying "we didn't do it". Of course we can't really know for sure what happened unless the rest of the participants say something about it.

CNN published the email chain,  and it looks like it was Colton's father who wanted his son to make a long speech about school defence.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/02/23/scripted-controversy-cnn-releases-emails-of-correspondence-with-florida-student/?utm_term=.f98696d1001a

Here's a data point for those following the debate as it evolves.  Emma Gonzales now has more twitter followers than the NRA.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 25, 2018, 03:45:56 AM
LOL   Seen on twitter. 

(https://s9.postimg.org/kk3xwyaz3/lol_russian_idiot.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 25, 2018, 03:50:19 AM
Lol, the retard forgot to enable his vpn.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 25, 2018, 01:59:55 PM
Yep, he sucks quite hard at it. But hey, I give him a B- for effort, which is not too bad for him.

You know, D1 is the only person on this site that sticks up for you...yet you make comments like these.

I told him you were a sniveling cowardly little weasel...he will realize it on his own soon enough.

Actually,  you are the only person that attacks him relentlessly,  you are so blinkered that you never even realize when he's trolling you. 

The rest of us,  think it's pretty hilarious.

Rayzor lies. I also attack the Swede no end.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 25, 2018, 02:14:50 PM
Rayzor lies. I also attack the Swede no end.
Nah don't worry, I don't consider your occasional mental pukes as attacks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 26, 2018, 09:26:16 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 26, 2018, 11:02:52 AM
So he'd do what, act as a human shield?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 26, 2018, 11:22:40 AM
Might have something to do with having 30 Secret Service agents clearing his path.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 26, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

What a stand up gentlemen. Of course we know he would not be harmed for he is....

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/BJ7A0/super-trump/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 26, 2018, 12:36:27 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

As just Donald Trump, I highly doubt it, but I guess you never know.

As president, definitely not...he would have been wisked away in a heartbeat by the secret service and put to a secure location the instant the first shot was heard.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 26, 2018, 12:40:01 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

As just Donald Trump, I highly doubt it, but I guess you never know.

As president, definitely not...he would have been wisked away in a heartbeat by the secret service and put to a secure location the instant the first shot was heard.

Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 26, 2018, 12:43:09 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article202132309.html

Quote
President Donald Trump is telling the nation's governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon."

Of course.

I'm sure he'd love to. But you know, those bone spurs...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 26, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 26, 2018, 12:54:20 PM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 26, 2018, 12:57:08 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.
I'm just picturing an armored vehicle crashing into the school, running over the shooter, a Navy Seal getting out, opening the back door, Trump stepping out, facing the children and telling them "Ok, ok, no need to thank me, I just did my duty".
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 26, 2018, 12:59:20 PM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)

No, we don't need to. He already is a hero. He stopped that bitch Killary from taking the mantle of the Oval office. America owes him a debt of gratitude
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 26, 2018, 01:07:07 PM
yeah totally.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 26, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.
I'm just picturing an armored vehicle crashing into the school, running over the shooter, a Navy Seal getting out, opening the back door, Trump stepping out, facing the children and telling them "Ok, ok, no need to thank me, I just did my duty".

These are all amazing ideas.  We just need Steve Bannon to make a movie out of it.  Trump can be played by Alec Baldwin.  His catch phrase would be "yippee ky-yay evil losers!".  The shooter would of course be played by Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 26, 2018, 01:12:27 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.


Headline:  187 Dead in School Shooting
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 26, 2018, 01:18:52 PM
Headline:  187 Dead in School Shooting

Lol, but the actual shooter somehow got away
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 26, 2018, 04:49:10 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 26, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?

Friendly fire is Americas specialty. It's what they do!  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 26, 2018, 08:59:32 PM


Holy Hell.  When CNN is wrecking your shit and you're a Democrat...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 26, 2018, 09:39:47 PM


Holy Hell.  When CNN is wrecking your shit and you're a Democrat...

Armchair quarterback! I bet the reporter would have been the first to run and hide if he had been on scene.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 12:00:16 AM
Yeah, he knows the dozens of secret service agents would never let him put himself in harms way but would look great for the cameras of him 'trying'.

It is fun to visualize Bullwinkle's idea... Trump kicking down the door with a complete circle of agents opening fire all at the same time.

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?
Well, they could shoot towards the outside though.

But I think shooting towards the middle would be the better option.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 12:07:16 AM
Lol, the retard forgot to enable his vpn.

Or maybe using a vpn?
Maximum lulz would be had using a Russian vpn. It's not proof it came from Russia, I'm posting from Israel now, for maximum lulz.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 12:13:17 AM
Lol, the retard forgot to enable his vpn.

Or maybe using a vpn?
Maximum lulz would be had using a Russian vpn. It's not proof it came from Russia, I'm posting from Israel now, for maximum lulz.
Yeah I considered that too, but then again, if you use russian location you can't even enter pornhub, so noone would do that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 12:24:58 AM
You know I've never tried.
You can post on tfes from Russia it seems.

I am become Russian hacker, destroyer of democracies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 12:39:36 AM
Lol, you're such a bad boy, you got yourself a russian ip! #respect
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 27, 2018, 01:43:46 AM

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?

Another example of your 1 dimensional thinking...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 27, 2018, 01:47:20 AM

You realize that the agents would be shooting themselves if they were in a circle,   or,  wait,  are they all shooting at Trump?

Another example of your 1 dimensional thinking...

Or is it an example of your inability to express yourself in a coherent manner?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:13:25 AM
Lol, you're such a bad boy, you got yourself a russian ip! #respect

I've got a few newf*g.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/now-i-am-become-death-the-destroyer-of-worlds
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:15:42 AM
Who thought you how to use a vpn? Isn't that too complicated for you?
Are you the hackerboy?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:34:10 AM
I'm not a haxxor. You're trolling at about a 4 going to need to bring it up to a 7 or 8 before I bite mate.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:40:22 AM
I'm not a haxxor. You're trolling at about a 4 going to need to bring it up to a 7 or 8 before I bite mate.
The 'Isn't that too complicated for you?' was a honest question tho.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:46:07 AM
Can you install and run a vpn on linux? That's an honest question. You should at least try to keep your trolling on topic. I know it's new for you and you're having fun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 27, 2018, 02:50:00 AM
Can you install and run a vpn on linux? That's an honest question. You should at least try to keep your trolling on topic. I know it's new for you and you're having fun.

https://openvpn.net/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:51:36 AM
Can you install and run a vpn on linux? That's an honest question. You should at least try to keep your trolling on topic. I know it's new for you and you're having fun.
Yeah tried it once. Very easy, you find tons of tutorials online.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 02:57:03 AM
Yeah it is easy, I prefer it to windows, on windows you double click your vpn icon then click connect. You know this so I didn't take your question as honest.

@ Rayzor.
(https://s18.postimg.org/4ywbskrt5/1519675145398.png)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 02:58:34 AM
You know this so I didn't take your question as honest.
Perhaps that was exactely why my question was honest.  ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 27, 2018, 03:02:45 AM
Yeah it is easy, I prefer it to windows, on windows you double click your vpn icon then click connect. You know this so I didn't take your question as honest.


OpenBSD
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Badxtoss on February 27, 2018, 10:20:29 AM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)

No, we don't need to. He already is a hero. He stopped that bitch Killary from taking the mantle of the Oval office. America owes him a debt of gratitude
He's a disgrace, and the laughingstock of the world. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 27, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
You guys having wet dreams about trump the hero?  ::)

No, we don't need to. He already is a hero. He stopped that bitch Killary from taking the mantle of the Oval office. America owes him a debt of gratitude
He's a disgrace, and the laughingstock of the world. 

George W Bush was also the laughing stock of the world. He was a fool and a dimwit. And in my view Obama was a disgrace on many accounts. He was a disingenuous shit and was good at wordplay which of course the liberals love. He idolised the terrorist Nelson Mandela as if that racist murderer was some kind of hero and he did nothing to end the wars in the Middle East, rather he further inflamed them by facilitating the creation if ISIS which in turned sparked 'lone wolf' attacks which became problems across the world. Edward Snowden also busted his arse with the spying on the allies scandal which he would of course been fully versed and complicit in. You think Trump is a disgrace? Well so are all of your previous Presidents in modern memory. Need I remind of that rapist Bill Clinton as well as his affair with that Monica intern.

Honestly there is less scandal and drama watching your shit soapies like Bold and the Beautiful or Days of our Lives.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 27, 2018, 08:13:44 PM
Your media circus is falling apart btw.



Fake news,  CNN debunked this already.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/cnn-refutes-parkland-school-shooting-survivors-scripted-question-claim
Well this isn't really a refutation, this is just CNN saying "we didn't do it". Of course we can't really know for sure what happened unless the rest of the participants say something about it.

CNN published the email chain,  and it looks like it was Colton's father who wanted his son to make a long speech about school defence.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/02/23/scripted-controversy-cnn-releases-emails-of-correspondence-with-florida-student/?utm_term=.f98696d1001a

Here's a data point for those following the debate as it evolves.  Emma Gonzales now has more twitter followers than the NRA.

Colton's Father now had admitted to altering the email,  so Fox news once again,  got it wrong.

https://apnews.com/d986a439fb1549b4b38a301b19ef4d4d/Shooting-survivor's-father-admits-email-changes-in-CNN-spat
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:24:17 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 27, 2018, 08:34:03 PM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 27, 2018, 08:54:25 PM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse

As an actual officer, what do you think should happen to them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 27, 2018, 10:24:22 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Sources please.
Also mass shootings =/= school shootings.
Also you should consider that not all europe countries are involved in big anti terrorism stuff (which makes them a terrorism target), so some countries, e.g. denmark, norway, switzerland,... are quite safe, where as others like french are not as safe.

About the officer there: As far as I know, he thought that the shooter was outside (he said that in a phone call I think). So getting behind his car and wait for reinforcement was - from what I heared - what the protocol says to do in such a situation. I might be wrong here, also I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 27, 2018, 11:58:31 PM
Facts, heh, statistics heh, A Jedi craves not these things.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 12:39:08 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 28, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
If you include the "terrorist" shootings I think he might be right. I'm not digging around for statistics atm but there's been a fair few shootings in the EU, it's just not as publicised as American shootings.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 01:02:00 AM
If you include the "terrorist" shootings I think he might be right. I'm not digging around for statistics atm but there's been a fair few shootings in the EU, it's just not as publicised as American shootings.
No, I can confirm that there are just less shootings regardless of publicization. I think even if you count the terrorist shootings he's probably still wrong. Terrorists don't use guns that frequently anyways.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on February 28, 2018, 01:05:56 AM
Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 11:21:21 AM
Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.
It's based on experience mostly because it's hard to find a statistic for Europe as a whole. I'd have to compile all the data from different countries and I don't have the time right now. However referring to school shootings in particular (which was what I was initially referring to) it more than confirms my suspicion. The entire EU hasn't had nearly as many incidents as the US had.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 28, 2018, 12:07:34 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Statistically speaking, I'd like to see these statistics.  Can you link them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 28, 2018, 12:50:23 PM
He just came out of police academy so possibly they had the stats in class?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on February 28, 2018, 12:55:50 PM
He just came out of police academy so possibly they had the stats in class?
That sounds pretty darn unlikely.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on February 28, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
I had some class where they told us gun injury is way more common in the us than in europe.
(of course that doesn't mean mass shootings only)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 28, 2018, 01:01:20 PM
How were the stats measured?

Per 100,000 people for example or all of the US, vs all of Europe (which would have more than twice the population of the US)

Interesting to know comparing how many were indiscriminate killings or criminals vs criminals.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 28, 2018, 01:05:50 PM

Vice magazine tracked all mass shootings across the US and Europe (including Russia, a total population twice that of the USA) for 2016.   The total death count for Europe was 53.   The total for the US was 392.  It's just one year, so it might not be representative, though I suspect it is.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xdwpwk/mass-shootings-in-the-united-states-and-europe-in-2016 (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xdwpwk/mass-shootings-in-the-united-states-and-europe-in-2016)
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016 (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016)

In terms of school shootings, the USA is a statistical outlier, without doubt.

Quote
A couple of years ago, the Academy for Critical Incident Analysis collected data on school violence around the world. They took a broad look at incidents where someone was killed, or a murder was attempted, and charted every one that had two or more victims. (Researchers left out "single homicides, off-campus homicides, killings caused by government actions, militaries, terrorists or militants." So, incidents like this one, where a U.S. airstrike in Syria accidentally hit a school and market and killed 30, are not included.)

Between 2000 and 2010, the recorded 57 incidents in 36 countries.

Half of those incidents — 28 — occurred in the United States.

That's all the more shocking when you consider that in 2010, the United States had about 309 million residents. The population of the other countries totaled 3.8 billion. It's worth noting, too, that 13 of those countries had never suffered a school massacre.

Violence in U.S. schools is much more likely be carried out by a gun, too. As Quartz explained about the study:

"In the vast majority of US killings, perpetrators used guns. By comparison, China — with the second-greatest number of incidents — saw 10 mass killings, but none involving firearms. Germany saw three mass shootings; Finland saw two. Thirteen other countries each saw one incident with at least one person being wounded or killed; in the rest nobody was reported as hurt."

There's evidence, too, that school violence is declining in other places. As my colleague explained this morning, "in Europe, there hasn't been a major high-casualty gun attack on a campus in almost a decade."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-america-school-shootings-20180215-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-america-school-shootings-20180215-story.html)

From 2010, but it's not like its suddenly improved in the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 01:27:55 PM
Is there any statistics describing the ratio of sane to insane people perpetrating these crimes? I would guess it tilts toward insane.

This is not about how to keep firearms out of the hands of insane people,
it's about how to keep insane people away from society.
 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 28, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
This is not about how to keep firearms out of the hands of insane people,
it's about how to keep insane people away from society.
Give em guns and put them on a island?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 02:02:49 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 28, 2018, 02:04:56 PM
I think it's mentally lazy to just lump all mass shooters into the mental illness category.  Obviously there is something wrong with them to allow them to commit such atrocities. However, these people account for a small percentage of people dealing with mental illness, even the same illnesses in a lot of cases.  There must be some sort of differentiator which causes one person to do what hundreds others don't.

That argument also stops any other discussions dead in the tracks, as if it's possible to actually fix the mental illness issue. But the focus is put so much onto the mental illness issue that any other solutions are seen as bandaids and will ultimately be ineffective.

Tl;dr stop placing the onus on mental health.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 28, 2018, 02:09:53 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.
My only worry with Pence's plan is that court systems are already bogged down. I'm afraid these types of preventative cases would be disregarded or thrown out as frivolous. I like the idea of being able to legally confiscate from potentially dangerous people, but it's a fine line to walk in determining what constitutes potentially dangerous, legitimately dangerous, or just really terrible internet trolling.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 02:14:51 PM
Yeah, it's a huge job and needs careful consideration.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 03:13:56 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second)
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

That's how the creative process works. I've thrown in some pretty off the wall solutions in meetings over the years knowing they would never actually solve a problem. It gives other people the freedom to think out loud.

If you start out with limitations you will never get the best solution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 28, 2018, 03:17:35 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second)
Quote
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.

“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

I actually agree with Pence, and think Trump was just kinda thinking out loud. Someone will explain to him that due process is important, I hope.

That's how the creative process works. I've thrown in some pretty off the wall solutions in meetings over the years knowing they would never actually solve a problem. It gives other people the freedom to think out loud.

If you start out with limitations you will never get the best solution.

I can't really fault Trump for blurting something like that out.  They stuck a news crew where the sausage gets made.  A lot of ideas that need some more baking comes out there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 03:23:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXJ3udYX0AINzF0.jpg)

They need to stop doing this shit. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
School Resource Officers aren't rent-a-cops, they are actually police officers assigned to school duty. This guy has no excuse for his cowardice. I only feel bad for him because he is undoubtedly getting death threats now. I would have rather he been fired, but at least he isn't in that position anymore.

Officers have been trained that the first person on scene is the first person to engage. This is basic stuff they taught when I was in the academy, the SRO and the three responding deputies had no excuse

As an actual officer, what do you think should happen to them?

They should be fired for their cowardace and the sheriff should resign. 1 coward is one thing. You can have someone slip through the cracks, however when four deputies fail to enter, something is wrong with command.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:40:14 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Sources please.

Sure.

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q

Quote
Also mass shootings =/= school shootings.
Also you should consider that not all europe countries are involved in big anti terrorism stuff (which makes them a terrorism target), so some countries, e.g. denmark, norway, switzerland,... are quite safe, where as others like french are not as safe.

About the officer there: As far as I know, he thought that the shooter was outside (he said that in a phone call I think). So getting behind his car and wait for reinforcement was - from what I heared - what the protocol says to do in such a situation. I might be wrong here, also I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.
Even if he thought the shooting was outside, he should've gone towards the gun fire. Ever since Columbine, officers in most states including Florida teach that if backup is not immediately on scene, you should go in and neutralize the threat.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:41:12 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 28, 2018, 03:43:20 PM
Is this based on what you think you know or can you cite the crime statistics?

I gave Luke the benefit of the doubt being a Police officer but if the statistics show otherwise I'm happy to see them.

Technically I'm not a police officer. I'm with the auxiliary unit with my department. I don't have the same powers as a police officer as of now.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 06:21:02 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 28, 2018, 06:22:29 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 28, 2018, 06:31:20 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1HMAAOSwLsBZQ8C-/s-l225.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on February 28, 2018, 06:33:55 PM
The more important question is:

(http://www.motivelab.com/wp-content/postimages/who-would-jesus-shoot.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 28, 2018, 06:35:07 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

What's with the crowns?   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on February 28, 2018, 06:41:11 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

What's with the crowns?

That looks both demented and sick
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 28, 2018, 07:04:51 PM
I wonder if they are Moonies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: sokarul on February 28, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1HMAAOSwLsBZQ8C-/s-l225.jpg)
Don't worry, I got it.
For the others, it's a nail gun.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on February 28, 2018, 07:12:05 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ

It makes me wonder. What kind of firearm would jesus use?

Based on what I've heard about his occupation I suspect he would use this gun:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1HMAAOSwLsBZQ8C-/s-l225.jpg)
Don't worry, I got it.
For the others, it's a nail gun.

We can't let this technology get into the hands of the Romans. They'll crucify every messiah in a single afternoon.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 07:42:56 PM
Limit them to staple guns.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on February 28, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2018, 10:13:08 PM
Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?


Next thing will be you can't tie damsels-in-despair to rail road tracks.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: TotesReptilian on February 28, 2018, 10:46:44 PM
WTF? https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/blessing-the-ar-15-idUSRTX4ZCOJ
I wonder if they are Moonies.

Found them, and yes, definitely Moonies. http://sanctuary-pa.org/

Quote
Welcome to the website of the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, also known as the Sanctuary Church of Newfoundland, PA!

Our pastor, Rev. Hyung Jin Moon, and his wife Rev. Yeon Ah Lee Moon, are the appointed heir/successor couple carrying on the providential work of his father, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, whose encounter with Jesus at age 15 led to his six decade worldwide ministry to fulfill Christ's mission, based on his Biblically based teachings, the Divine Principle.

...

Method to Multiply Holy Salt

1. Obtain the seed Holy Salt.

2. New salt needs to be purchased. Take a few grains of the seed Holy Salt and sprinkle on the newly purchased salt package or carton as soon as possible upon purchase.

3. Clean the environment to be used to multiply the Holy Salt. It is suggested to use a sheet of paper on a table or on the floor on which one mixes the salt piles.

4. Make one pile with the seed Holy Salt and make seven identical size piles of the new salt. All the piles should be of equal amounts.

5. Offer a prayer along these lines:
“I pray that this salt is sanctified and turned into Holy Salt. This I report in the name of the (family name) Blessed Central Family.”

Note: If the person praying has not received the Blessing ceremony, it is suggested he/she would then pray in the name of the Three Kingships.

6. Sprinkle the seed Holy Salt on each of the seven piles of new salt using your right hand.

7. Mix the seed Holy Salt into each of the seven piles.

8. Mix all the piles together.

9. Final prayer (optional).

Note: If only a small quantity of the original seed Holy Salt is available, perform the above multiplication procedure more than once, thus making a greater quantity from the original seed Holy Salt.

:-\
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 12:22:52 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXJ3udYX0AINzF0.jpg)

They need to stop doing this shit.

This is why some people think Trump has you on strings. If he called for banning semi auto rifles the entire media would immediately say we need more semi auto rifles. Sometimes I don't believe this timeline is real.

I support the US constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Limit them to staple guns.

Nail guns that use explosive charges were treated as firearms in Australia.   No,  not kidding.  I think it might have changed late last year?

Yeah for the love of god don't follow our example.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 01, 2018, 12:26:46 AM

Method to Multiply Holy Salt

1. Obtain the seed Holy Salt.

2. New salt needs to be purchased. Take a few grains of the seed Holy Salt and sprinkle on the newly purchased salt package or carton as soon as possible upon purchase.

3. Clean the environment to be used to multiply the Holy Salt. It is suggested to use a sheet of paper on a table or on the floor on which one mixes the salt piles.

4. Make one pile with the seed Holy Salt and make seven identical size piles of the new salt. All the piles should be of equal amounts.

5. Offer a prayer along these lines:
“I pray that this salt is sanctified and turned into Holy Salt. This I report in the name of the (family name) Blessed Central Family.”

Note: If the person praying has not received the Blessing ceremony, it is suggested he/she would then pray in the name of the Three Kingships.

6. Sprinkle the seed Holy Salt on each of the seven piles of new salt using your right hand.

7. Mix the seed Holy Salt into each of the seven piles.

8. Mix all the piles together.

9. Final prayer (optional).

Note: If only a small quantity of the original seed Holy Salt is available, perform the above multiplication procedure more than once, thus making a greater quantity from the original seed Holy Salt.



Is this the BitCoin Manifesto?

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 01:02:21 AM
That's pretty memeable.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 01, 2018, 01:11:17 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right? If 1 shooting happens there it will glide up to the top of the chart in no time, with many countries not even having a single shooting in recent history. That doesn't say anything about Europe in general. Norway had 1 shooting and that's it. But it was extremely deadly and the population is low. Even if no shootings happen there for the next 10 years and the rate of shootings increases in the US it will still be way up there. I don't find it very surprising in France, because of the terrorist attacks, which is a different issue altogether, and countries like Albania and Macedonia are not ones I would call "advanced". If you really want a statistic that says anything, you'd have to compile data from all European countries and add them together, treating the whole of Europe as a single country. You can't compare countries 100 times smaller than the US with it for something as uncommon as mass shootings. It's like comparing individual states.

Btw Switzerland, Norway, Serbia and Belgium are some of the most armed countries in Europe. Belgium actually has similar gun laws to the US. Food for thought.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 01:12:24 AM
Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 01, 2018, 04:19:02 AM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right?

That's not even the issue.  This site is run by John Lott:

Quote
He has authored books such as More Guns, Less Crime, The Bias Against Guns, and Freedomnomics. He is best known as an advocate[1][2][3] in the gun rights debate, particularly his arguments against restrictions on owning and carrying guns. Newsweek referred to Lott as "The Gun Crowd's Guru."[4]
He's been caught lots of times, not just manipulating data but just plain making shit up.


Quote
Lott often claims that there is no difference between the frequency of public shootings in Europe and the United States. This is unabashedly false — but he continues to spread the falsehood anyway.

In February, he made the claim before the Tennessee Senate. “Most people may not realize this, but the rate of mass public shootings in Europe is actually fairly similar to the rate in the United States,” he said. “There is no statistically significant difference there, either in terms of the rate or fatalities.”

A couple of months earlier, he said something similar to the Washington Post, which quickly highlighted that his analysis was quite different from that of other experts in the field. As the Post noted, while Lott said the per capita rates of mass shootings in Europe and the United States were approximately the same, another researcher found the U.S. rate to be five times higher. The Post explained that the gulf between the results was due to Lott and the other researcher using different definitions.

But there is an even simpler explanation for the differing conclusions: Lott wasn’t being honest about his own findings.

While Lott claims the per capita rate in the United States and Europe are approximately the same, his own data tables tell a different story. Accepting his data at face value, between 2009 and 2015, the United States had 25 mass shootings versus 19 in the E.U. and 24 in Europe as a whole. This comes out as a rate of .078 shootings per million individuals in the United States, .038 for the E.U., and .032 for Europe as a whole. The United States has more than double the mass shooting rate of the E.U. and Europe, directly contradicting Lott’s statements about his own data.

Further, Lott’s carefully crafted criteria to include an incident as a mass shooting is highly suspect. Lott goes to great lengths to exclude mass shootings that are the result of burglaries and gang violence, but he includes terrorist attacks. This choice means that while the Texas biker gang gunfight last summer is excluded in his statistics, the November Paris attacks, which accounted for more than one-third of Europe’s mass shooting fatalities, are included.

However, when scholars study these mass shootings, they frequently exclude terrorist attacks from the analysis, for much the same reason Lott excludes burglaries and gang violence: the motivations are different. When researchers use a more appropriate set of criteria, the chasm between the rate of mass shootings in Europe and the United States widens even further. Researchers can also include all incidents of mass shootings (regardless of motivation) or use complex statistical analysis to determine whether the mass shooting difference between the United States and Europe is significant. The result remains the same — the United States fares far worse.

All of these methods point to the same conclusion: even if Lott wasn’t lying about his own results, his analysis would still be deeply flawed.

It also doesn't have anything to do with school shootings, which is the topic of discussion.  The USA is off the charts for that compared to other countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 01, 2018, 04:40:34 AM
Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?
How is that related to my post?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 01, 2018, 10:21:15 AM
Nearly like it isn't the guns killing people but other people?
Sure that it's not the guns doing the killing? I mean, do you find bullets in dead people or do you find 'other people' in them?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 01, 2018, 10:25:20 AM
Are you kinkshaming?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 01, 2018, 10:35:29 AM
Oh wow, spacecow... really?
You trying to ant hill me?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 01, 2018, 01:35:42 PM
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 01, 2018, 09:30:50 PM
The guns, dahnald.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 01, 2018, 10:16:52 PM
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

This could easily become my favorite retort.   
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on March 02, 2018, 02:28:09 PM
This kind of thing did not happen when I was in high school, and we had guns back then.  This seems to be a snowflake generation epidemic.
Well it sure does happen now and doesn't really happen where people don't have guns so...

Actually, statistically speaking, the EU has more mass shootings at a more frequent rate with more casualties than we do.
Actually, that's complete bullshit. If you read it somewhere it's either an outright lie or someone manipulated data.

Ok. Then address this.
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Lol you do realize that most of these countries have VERY small populations compared to the US right? If 1 shooting happens there it will glide up to the top of the chart in no time, with many countries not even having a single shooting in recent history. That doesn't say anything about Europe in general. Norway had 1 shooting and that's it. But it was extremely deadly and the population is low. Even if no shootings happen there for the next 10 years and the rate of shootings increases in the US it will still be way up there. I don't find it very surprising in France, because of the terrorist attacks, which is a different issue altogether, and countries like Albania and Macedonia are not ones I would call "advanced". If you really want a statistic that says anything, you'd have to compile data from all European countries and add them together, treating the whole of Europe as a single country. You can't compare countries 100 times smaller than the US with it for something as uncommon as mass shootings. It's like comparing individual states.

Btw Switzerland, Norway, Serbia and Belgium are some of the most armed countries in Europe. Belgium actually has similar gun laws to the US. Food for thought.

That's why I said "statistically" and if I'm nkt mistaken one of the links did in fact compared the EU as a whole to the US.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 03, 2018, 12:44:30 AM
That's why I said "statistically"

But that's not what it showed, statistically.

Quote
if I'm nkt mistaken one of the links did in fact compared the EU as a whole to the US.

Yes, and while it says the EU had 27% more casualties per capita, his chart says the EU had 0.42 fatalities per million and the US had 0.65, but he just ignores that. And it includes terrorist attacks that weren't executed solely with guns. I can't look more deeply into this right now but this site seems pretty biased.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 03, 2018, 02:43:09 AM
And it includes terrorist attacks that weren't executed solely with guns. I can't look more deeply into this right now but this site seems pretty biased.
The guy who runs it has been done multiple times for just making shit up - and he plays lots of games with the presentation on that site.  Academic studies have shown mass shootings at a level 5 times higher in the US and the EU - and that guys own figures (if you look into them properly) show a significantly higher rate in the US.  He just lies about them.

It's also nothing to do with school shootings, which is what the thread is about, something where the USA is an off the chart outlier.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 03, 2018, 04:15:48 AM
That site is worse than a joke.
Example:
(https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2016-04-05-at-Tuesday-April-5-1.05-AM.png)

Rank 7 - Switzerland
--> Taking a look at the data he provided further down:
"Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament."

Wait what? The graph claims to use data from 2009-2015...
that site is all fake news and propaganda. Fuckig pathetic to use that site to make a point.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 03, 2018, 06:09:42 AM
That site is worse than a joke.
Example:
(https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2016-04-05-at-Tuesday-April-5-1.05-AM.png)

Rank 7 - Switzerland
--> Taking a look at the data he provided further down:
"Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament."

Wait what? The graph claims to use data from 2009-2015...
that site is all fake news and propaganda. Fuckig pathetic to use that site to make a point.
No that data is used to make a different point. On the other hand I'm suspicious that he's used different definitions of "mass shooting", in that he's only kept indiscriminate shootings in his US stats, but he's used any shooting with 4 or more fatalities for Europe.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 03, 2018, 07:34:12 AM
He pretty much uses weird sources for most of his opinions. I mean, he gets his information about evolution from Answers in Genesis.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 03, 2018, 03:19:16 PM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/all-talk-no-bolt-action-gun-injuries-drop-during-nra-conventions/ lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Symptom on March 03, 2018, 08:12:10 PM
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

This could easily become my favorite retort.   

Yeah, I'm totally stealing that. This is why she is our MOM.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 04, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
A closer look at a wannabe mass shooter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/inside-a-teen-school-shooters-mind-a-plot-to-kill-50-or-60-if-i-get-lucky-maybe-150/2018/03/03/68cc673c-1b27-11e8-ae5a-16e60e4605f3_story.html?utm_term=.326467046ff9

His rampage ended in two people dead.  It probably didn't show up on anyone's radar because 2 dead in a school shooting apparently isn't big news now.  The reason it was only two was because he could only get his dad's handgun which jammed.  His father also had a semi automatic rifle which he had the good sense to lock up.  Well not that day actually.  Funny story.  That rifle was out of the gun safe.  The kid just didn't notice it.

I would be dishonest if I didn't point out how disturbingly similar his thoughts on the subject are to how I look at a game of Halo.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 05, 2018, 06:04:26 AM
A closer look at a wannabe mass shooter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/inside-a-teen-school-shooters-mind-a-plot-to-kill-50-or-60-if-i-get-lucky-maybe-150/2018/03/03/68cc673c-1b27-11e8-ae5a-16e60e4605f3_story.html?utm_term=.326467046ff9

His rampage ended in two people dead.  It probably didn't show up on anyone's radar because 2 dead in a school shooting apparently isn't big news now.  The reason it was only two was because he could only get his dad's handgun which jammed.  His father also had a semi automatic rifle which he had the good sense to lock up.  Well not that day actually.  Funny story.  That rifle was out of the gun safe.  The kid just didn't notice it.

I would be dishonest if I didn't point out how disturbingly similar his thoughts on the subject are to how I look at a game of Halo.
Woah this kid is seriously fucked up. It's really disturbing how more recent school shooters almost make the Columbine shooters moral in comparison.

About the videogame thing, I definitely think people with these tendencies are attracted to them and often incorporate elements from them in their plans. However I don't buy for a moment that they generate these tendencies.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 05, 2018, 06:14:43 AM

About the videogame thing, I definitely think people with these tendencies are attracted to them and often incorporate elements from them in their plans. However I don't buy for a moment that they generate these tendencies.

I don't either.  I believe there's actually been studies done that don't show a link.  That and the less murdery developed worlds also play video games at least as much as we do.  It's just another piece in the puzzle of understanding mass shooters.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 06:22:53 AM
Even if there was a small correlation, I don't think that would justify banning videogames.
I mean the correlation between driving a car and lowered life expectation is probably vastly higher than between videogames and lowered life expectation.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 05, 2018, 08:02:06 AM
Hypothetically,

I wouldn't suggest something that ham-fisted in the event that there was correlation.

What I would suggest is studying it and figuring out why.

If a creative medium can incite bad behaviour then maybe if we understood why then it could be used to thwart bad behaviour.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 05, 2018, 10:30:51 AM
I don't think anyone thinks video games in general incite violence. But some people make the case for violent ones.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
Yeah when I said video games I of course meant violent ones. I thought that was obvious  ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 05, 2018, 10:42:10 AM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 10:46:12 AM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 05, 2018, 11:51:20 AM
I've played Hello Kitty Online all my life and I am a murderous psychopath.    Where does that leave us?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 05, 2018, 11:55:53 AM
I've killed countless zombies in the Resident Evil series, hordes of Covenant and Flood in Halo, legions of Geth and Reaper troops in Mass Effect, assloads of hookers in GTA, and look how I turned out.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 05, 2018, 11:59:16 AM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.

How comprehensive!
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 05, 2018, 12:21:40 PM
Again, I've played violent video games my whole life and I'm not a murderous psychopath.

I've played Hello Kitty Online all my life and I am a murderous psychopath.    Where does that leave us?


RAP BATTLE !
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 05, 2018, 12:27:50 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 05, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
I've killed countless zombies in the Resident Evil series, hordes of Covenant and Flood in Halo, legions of Geth and Reaper troops in Mass Effect, assloads of hookers in GTA, and look how I turned out.

Good point. These games should be banned  ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 05, 2018, 01:48:15 PM
And I've literally slaughtered thousands of Chinese people in Dynasty Warriors 4 for PS2 so....
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 05, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
My Grandpa smoked all his life and he's 90 years old and going strong.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 05, 2018, 01:56:17 PM
My Grandpa smoked all his life and he's 90 years old and going strong.
Smoking decreases life expectation by quite a bit.
Exceptions are always existing. To base anything on those exceptions proves ignorance and pure stupidity.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 05, 2018, 02:21:38 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 05, 2018, 03:24:03 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.

I played Tetris once,  I got angry when I lost.  All video games should be banned.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 05, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.

I played Tetris once,  I got angry when I lost.  All video games should be banned.

Sore loser. Video games are awesome. I didn't know how gory the Witcher 3 combat was and my 4 year old was in the room. After killing someone in it for the first time my 4 year old said 'HIS HEAD FELL OFF!' lol. Whoops

Think I'll stick to that Disney 'Rush' game or the 'Cars 3' game he likes when he's around in future. I would have thought Tetris would be okay for him but looking how you turned out after losing a game I think I'll pass on that
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 05, 2018, 06:02:08 PM


Tremble before Satan's cupcakes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 05, 2018, 06:13:47 PM
Me thinks one of his writers is a crypto flat earther. They seem to think pancakes are very important.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 05, 2018, 06:23:01 PM
Pancakes are life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 05, 2018, 06:54:02 PM
My Grandpa smoked all his life and he's 90 years old and going strong.
Smoking decreases life expectation by quite a bit.
Exceptions are always existing. To base anything on those exceptions proves ignorance and pure stupidity.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/992/397/9c9.gif)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 06, 2018, 04:27:12 AM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.
There has to be something more than that. This didn't happen a few decades ago, and it still doesn't happen in other countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 06, 2018, 05:50:30 AM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.
There has to be something more than that. This didn't happen a few decades ago, and it still doesn't happen in other countries.

Another piece of the puzzle.  In the article that I linked to and that scg posted a few pages ago there's an interesting commonality, online mass shooter admiration communities.

There's a weird side effect of the internet bringing everyone together.  People have the option to hide from reality by finding like the only 10 other people on the planet that believe that same insane thing they do.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 06, 2018, 06:27:42 AM
It might just be that murderous psychopaths like violent games, not that violent games make them murderous psychopaths.

It has to be society's fault.
There is no way murderous psychopaths just have fucked up brains.
There has to be something more than that. This didn't happen a few decades ago, and it still doesn't happen in other countries.

Another piece of the puzzle.  In the article that I linked to and that scg posted a few pages ago there's an interesting commonality, online mass shooter admiration communities.

There's a weird side effect of the internet bringing everyone together.  People have the option to hide from reality by finding like the only 10 other people on the planet that believe that same insane thing they do.
Yeah I thought about that too... Seems that nutter discussed his plans in a community of nutters.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 06, 2018, 11:10:52 AM
I didn't know how gory the Witcher 3 combat was and my 4 year old was in the room.
Ha, my mate had the same thing with the Witcher 3 and his kid - except it was the fairly brutal swearing he picked up on as it blasted round his living room.  "Daddy, what's that man saying?"
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 06, 2018, 02:04:07 PM
I didn't know how gory the Witcher 3 combat was and my 4 year old was in the room.
Ha, my mate had the same thing with the Witcher 3 and his kid - except it was the fairly brutal swearing he picked up on as it blasted round his living room.  "Daddy, what's that man saying?"

lol, I was playing Life is Strange and after a scene with lots of swearing my son says 'Fuck?' I said 'No no, DUCK. They were talking about ducks!' His innocence is getting ruined  :'(
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 07, 2018, 02:18:45 AM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 07, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 08, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Yeah, but it's pretty lame.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 08, 2018, 12:16:20 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Yeah, but it's pretty lame.

Man, I downloaded the whole thing for like $6 on a sale. Not fussed. You wouldn't know if it was lame unless you looked into it yourself! How much did you lose on it?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 08, 2018, 12:17:44 PM
lol, I was playing Life is Strange
But why?

Because sometimes, I like a linear storyline that doesn't require 50-100+hrs of gameplay to finish.
Yeah, but it's pretty lame.

Man, I downloaded the whole thing for like $6 on a sale. Not fussed. You wouldn't know if it was lame unless you looked into it yourself! How much did you lose on it?
I didn't, but a friend did.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 12:17:52 PM
Gaming is for losers only.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:06:51 PM
Wesker is no loser.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
Wesker is no loser.

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.359928673.4089/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:27:07 PM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 08, 2018, 01:27:38 PM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)

No.  No he can't.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 01:28:23 PM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)

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Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
Wesker is not impressed.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 08, 2018, 01:44:04 PM
Wesker is not impressed.

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Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 08, 2018, 01:50:58 PM
Wesker thinks User likes DT45 more than Wesker does.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 09, 2018, 03:46:31 AM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
What has given you that idea?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 09, 2018, 03:52:12 AM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
What has given you that idea?
If I had to take a guess I'd say my general intellectual superiority paired with my astoundingly charismatic appearance.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 09, 2018, 04:21:47 AM
Come on User, you do better than that ;)
What has given you that idea?
If I had to take a guess I'd say my general intellectual superiority paired with my astoundingly charismatic appearance.
Could be that.

I think we'll leave it to future historians to judge.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 09, 2018, 04:43:49 AM
If I had to take a guess I'd say my general intellectual superiority paired with my astoundingly charismatic appearance.

I would think your self-deprecating modesty is your strongest feature.  :)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 14, 2018, 04:36:32 PM
http://www.ksbw.com/article/seaside-high-teacher-accidentally-fires-gun-in-class/19426017

A teacher who also serves as a reserve police officer accidentally fired a gun inside a Seaside High School classroom Tuesday, police said, and three students were injured.

Dennis Alexander was teaching a course about gun safety for his Administration of Justice class when his gun went off at 11 a.m.

Alexander was pointing his gun at the ceiling when it fired. Pieces of the ceiling fell to the ground.

A news release from the Seaside Police Department said no one suffered "serious injuries." One 17-year-old boy suffered moderate injuries when fragments from the bullet ricocheted off the ceiling and lodged into his neck, the student's father, Fermin Gonzales, told KSBW.

The teacher had just told the class that he wanted to make sure his gun wasn't loaded, when the gun fired, according to Gonzales.

"It's the craziest thing. It could have been very bad," Gonzales said.

The teacher was about to use the gun for a demonstration about how to disarm someone, according to Gonzales.

Everyone in the classroom was stunned, and the teacher, who is a reserve officer for the Sand City Police Department, apologized.

But no one at the school checked to make sure that all of the students were uninjured, Gonzales said. The school day resumed as normal.

The 17-year-old boy's parents were shocked when he returned home with blood on his shirt and bullet fragments in his neck. The student's parents rushed him to a hospital for X-rays.

"He's shaken up, but he's going to be OK," Gonzales told KSBW. "I'm just pretty upset that no one told us anything and we had to call the police ourselves to report it."

Alexander was placed on administrative leave from his teaching position at Seaside High School, and he was also placed on administrative leave at the Sand City Police Department.

Sand City Police Chief Brian Ferrante told KSBW, "I have concerns about why he was displaying a loaded firearm in a classroom. We will be looking into that."



Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 05:10:33 PM

The teacher had just told the class that he wanted to make sure his gun wasn't loaded, when the gun fired, according to Gonzales.


Bernard "Barney" P. Milton Oliver Fife?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Space Cowgirl on March 14, 2018, 05:30:11 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 14, 2018, 05:48:56 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 05:51:43 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.


"See, kids? Rule #1 - always treat a gun as if it is loaded."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 05:53:59 PM
(2m:50s)

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 06:10:50 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 14, 2018, 06:18:33 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 06:45:37 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.


It is effortless to point out potential problems with someone else's plan.
That's why so many people do it.

Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?





Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 08:24:38 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 14, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them

The student protests are the game changer this time around.  It will be interesting to see how that plays out over the next few years.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 08:52:02 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them


There is a reason why children don't get to make the rules.

So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

Does calling 000 or 112 in Australia guarantee a victims survival or just alert the police to the whereabouts of the crime scene.


BTW, you didn't offer a solution.




Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 14, 2018, 09:19:26 PM
So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

It's called self defence, and it is a right that everyone has.
Quote
With that said, each state has their own amendments when it comes to what constitutes as self defence. For example, under section 418(2) of the NSW Crimes Act 1900, a person is not guilty of an offence if they were:

(a) to defend himself or herself or another person, or (b) to prevent or terminate the unlawful deprivation of his or her liberty or the liberty of another person, or (c) to protect property from unlawful taking, destruction, damage or interference, or (d) to prevent criminal trespass to any land or premises or to remove a person committing any such criminal trespass, and the conduct is a reasonable response in the circumstances as he or she perceives them.


It doesn't automatically confer the right to kill an intruder,  that could be construed as excessive force.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: boydster on March 14, 2018, 09:40:14 PM
The answer to fixing the opiate addiction crisis is undoubtedly NOT to introduce more opiates to combat the bad opiates. You reduce access to opiates and look for alternatives. (I'm not suggesting new laws, I'm just saying you don't give a heroin addict oxycontin and say you did them a favor)

Same goes for alcoholism. The answer isn't getting more people to drink more alcohol.

Frequent absenteeism at work. You don't encourage more people to be late more often.

Why, with guns, do we say more people should have more guns to fix the problem? I'm ok with guns. My family hunts deer and moose (stahp it Moose, not you). I have been raised around them. But I don't think the NRAtv propaganda spots are useful. And I don't think Obama and Hillary are coming for my guns just because people want kids to stop dying at school. And I don't think it's wrong to have a system in place that asks a 19 year old to answer very carefully why he really feels he needs an assault style rifle, and maybe says no sometimes to the crazy aggressive guns that are always in the news. Ever tried asking a doctor for Percocets? They usually don't say "sure, there are other drugs that might work, but since you asked, let's just go ahead and make it happen."
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 09:41:11 PM
Americas main problem is embedded in its culture. It's not an easy fix and cant be done overnight. I think bringing more guns inside schools is the wrong direction. I of course speak from a country that doesn't give 2 shits about guns. No one obsesses about them and no one (bar law enforcement and armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash) really has them.

America cant ever go to a utopia that is Australia. You're too far gone for that.  ;) But guns inside schools wont fix the problem of guns in schools. It also sets the mindset in children growing up with armed teachers that violence is not only a way of life, but a solution.

Judging by the protests going on it looks like the students don't want their teachers to be armed anyway. I cant say I blame them


There is a reason why children don't get to make the rules.

So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

Does calling 000 or 112 in Australia guarantee a victims survival or just alert the police to the whereabouts of the crime scene.


BTW, you didn't offer a solution.

Not my country, not my place to offer a solution. All I can 'offer' is direction. Not that it matters because I am not from your culture. I could very well think a lot differently had I been brought up in America. But I wasn't so my words are ignorant

I am not forbidden from protecting my life against an attack. And having a gun in the family is more likely to get you in trouble than not having one

http://www.newsweek.com/florida-gun-boy-shoots-mother-435175
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 09:41:48 PM
So, "armoured security guards transporting large amounts of cash" in Australia get to protect other people's stuff against aggressive attack, but, individuals are forbidden from protecting their life against attack?

It's called self defence, and it is a right that everyone has.
Quote
With that said, each state has their own amendments when it comes to what constitutes as self defence. For example, under section 418(2) of the NSW Crimes Act 1900, a person is not guilty of an offence if they were:

(a) to defend himself or herself or another person, or (b) to prevent or terminate the unlawful deprivation of his or her liberty or the liberty of another person, or (c) to protect property from unlawful taking, destruction, damage or interference, or (d) to prevent criminal trespass to any land or premises or to remove a person committing any such criminal trespass, and the conduct is a reasonable response in the circumstances as he or she perceives them.


It doesn't automatically confer the right to kill an intruder,  that could be construed as excessive force.

So you can have a weapon for no other reason than you feel like owning one?


If you find a drunk teenager crashed out on your couch you point your weapon and call 911.
If you find a masked intruder with a pillowcase full of your treasure you point the weapon at them and order them to their knees. If they run you follow them to the door. If they face you and disobey your commands you put two bullets in their chest.

You have no obligation to negotiate. If your intruder is not afraid of your defense, are you obligated to beg? Fuck that. They made a choice.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 09:49:48 PM
If you find a drunk teenager crashed out on your couch you point your weapon and call 911.

or you can do what this guy did

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38450038/intruder-tourist-sleeps-on-nz-fishermans-couch-in-mangawhai/

Quote
Gordon Pryor, 60, woke just before sunrise on Saturday to the sound of someone entering his unlocked rural home in Mangawhai.

He watched the young man settle down on the couch, pulling a bean bag over himself for warmth.


A New Zealand man left an intruder to sleep on his couch while posting pictures on Facebook to find out who he was. Source: Facebook

Rather than interrupt him, the homeowner let the young man sleep despite his eldest son, a policeman, informing him the visitor had broken the law.

He said it would have been easier to let the man stay rather than wake him and possibly face an argument.

The fisherman boiled a kettle and had a coffee and a piece of toast while he watched over the man.


Mr Pryor also took a few pictures to share to a couple local Facebook pages to see if anyone recognised him.

"Found this guy sleeping on my couch this am lol does anyone know him?" he wrote.

While nobody identified the sleeping man, the post received hundreds of positive comments from locals praising Mr Pryor for his kindness, while many parents checked their kids' rooms to see if they were missing anyone.


 
The intruder was laster identified as engineering student Louis Coetze who was visiting the region. Source: Facebook

“I’ve travelled the world a bit and you know a few things and you know your capabilities if you have to deal with somebody and if you need assistance.

"I wasn’t unduly concerned,” Mr Pryor told the New Zealand Herald.

The intruder turned out to be an engineering student visiting the region who had to walk to his destination after being dropped off by a shuttle bus.

Mr Pryor later updated the post to say: "Well guys we now know who he is. A good kid... just got a little lost lol."

The young man's mother has since thanked Mr Pryor for his kindness, the newspaper reported.

"Only in Mangawhai!" one person posted
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 14, 2018, 10:04:36 PM
If you find a drunk teenager crashed out on your couch you point your weapon and call 911.

or you can do what this guy did

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38450038/intruder-tourist-sleeps-on-nz-fishermans-couch-in-mangawhai/

Quote
Gordon Pryor, 60, woke just before sunrise on Saturday to the sound of someone entering his unlocked rural home in Mangawhai.

He watched the young man settle down on the couch, pulling a bean bag over himself for warmth.


A New Zealand man left an intruder to sleep on his couch while posting pictures on Facebook to find out who he was. Source: Facebook

Rather than interrupt him, the homeowner let the young man sleep despite his eldest son, a policeman, informing him the visitor had broken the law.

He said it would have been easier to let the man stay rather than wake him and possibly face an argument.

The fisherman boiled a kettle and had a coffee and a piece of toast while he watched over the man.


Mr Pryor also took a few pictures to share to a couple local Facebook pages to see if anyone recognised him.

"Found this guy sleeping on my couch this am lol does anyone know him?" he wrote.

While nobody identified the sleeping man, the post received hundreds of positive comments from locals praising Mr Pryor for his kindness, while many parents checked their kids' rooms to see if they were missing anyone.


 
The intruder was laster identified as engineering student Louis Coetze who was visiting the region. Source: Facebook

“I’ve travelled the world a bit and you know a few things and you know your capabilities if you have to deal with somebody and if you need assistance.

"I wasn’t unduly concerned,” Mr Pryor told the New Zealand Herald.

The intruder turned out to be an engineering student visiting the region who had to walk to his destination after being dropped off by a shuttle bus.

Mr Pryor later updated the post to say: "Well guys we now know who he is. A good kid... just got a little lost lol."

The young man's mother has since thanked Mr Pryor for his kindness, the newspaper reported.

"Only in Mangawhai!" one person posted


Fishermen are reasonable people.  ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2018, 10:12:00 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you? 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 10:19:06 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you?

Quote
Concealed carry or carrying a concealed weapon, is the practice of carrying a weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in close proximity

Bottom line - Guns will be in school
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2018, 10:41:47 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you?

Quote
Concealed carry or carrying a concealed weapon, is the practice of carrying a weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in close proximity

Bottom line - Guns will be in school

How does one wrestle a concealed weapon away from an unsuspecting teacher if nobody knows who has a firearm and who does not?  Does the kid with a death wish just stomp the shit out of every teacher until he finds one with a pistol strapped to his leg?  In the area where I live, a high percentage of people often legally carry a concealed weapon and guess what, people are not attack by kids with a death wish trying to take their guns away from them, nor are children's fragile psyches damage by knowing that any grownup around them might be carrying a firearm, nor are properly concealed weapons attacking children randomly.  You make the worst arguments against arming teachers. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
I kinda feel sorry for the guy, the false flag people will be threatening him.

Also, I hope anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea will just think about it. Even trained people who are used to handling guns make mistakes.

Many people are shot every year with unloaded guns.   Doesn't very often happen during a gun safety demonstration by a police officer.

On the whole I think it was a great demonstration of gun safety.  But I doubt many will see it that way.

You're callous. People were hurt and could have been killed. Would you still think it was a 'great demonstration' if that was your kid in hospital?

As far as gun safety goes it was a great demonstration,  none of those kids will ever forget it.   The rule is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. 

To imply that means I don't care about the kid who got a bullet fragment in the neck is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion,  it means no such thing.

Stop projecting.

I wasn't projecting. I am not even sure how that word can be applied in this context. I was being serious. Guns have no place in a school. Kids should not need to worry about being shot accidently or otherwise from their educators. Schools are not jails. Unless we are preparing our kids for a life in prison, the teachers do not need to have guns. Just fuck them off. Only a matter of time before some kid with a deathwish wrestles a gun off an unsuspecting teacher or some idiot teacher leaves a gun unlocked in a desk drawer.

You don't really understand how concealed carry works, do you?

Quote
Concealed carry or carrying a concealed weapon, is the practice of carrying a weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in close proximity

Bottom line - Guns will be in school

How does one wrestle a concealed weapon away from an unsuspecting teacher if nobody knows who has a firearm and who does not?  Does the kid with a death wish just stomp the shit out of every teacher until he finds one with a pistol strapped to his leg?  In the area where I live, a high percentage of people often legally carry a concealed weapon and guess what, people are not attack by kids with a death wish trying to take their guns away from them, nor are children's fragile psyches damage by knowing that any grownup around them might be carrying a firearm, nor are properly concealed weapons attacking children randomly.  You make the worst arguments against arming teachers.

I'm pretty sure the question of which teachers have a gun wont be the worlds best kept secret

And are schools prisons now? Are your teachers wardens? Who the fuck wants to go to school where your teachers have a gun? You call yourselves 'land of the free'. What a joke. You're slowly becoming a prison state

You guys brag about being the best country on Earth no end, but there are very few enviable reasons for anyone to want to go there.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2018, 10:55:47 PM
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 14, 2018, 11:11:36 PM
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...

Whatever you say man. I'm happy that my country I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either. Happy that I can send my kids to school and not even consider them being slaughtered and taking their bullet ridden body home in a box. That makes me really happy. God has blessed Australia  ;D
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 12:03:00 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how? 


Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 15, 2018, 12:16:15 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 12:46:23 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.

I am disabled. I can't fight or run away.
I guess if a stern disapproving look doesn't work I'm fucked?

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 15, 2018, 01:10:53 AM
I am disabled.
Mentally?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 01:30:59 AM
I am disabled.
Mentally?

20/90  mental/physical
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 15, 2018, 01:39:57 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.


Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 15, 2018, 01:45:29 AM
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...

Thank you for that post. It perfectly represents what's wrong with the american mentality.

Pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 15, 2018, 01:47:36 AM
Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?

No, they are very clear on not being able to defend yourself or your property here.

Only the all powerful state may defend people and property.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 15, 2018, 01:53:06 AM
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.


Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

Would you agree allowing almost anyone to purchase semi automatic military grade weapons in the first place is part of the problem?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 02:02:24 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 15, 2018, 02:32:50 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 15, 2018, 02:51:35 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   


You could 'alter his thought process' if you're a really good shot.   :o
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 15, 2018, 03:01:58 AM
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   


You could 'alter his thought process' if you're a really good shot.   :o

I shot a 9mm Glock a few weeks back,  piece of crap, I couldn't hit a door at 25 yards,   A S&W 357 Magnum revolver, I could hit the door knob.   But if it comes to intruders,  a cricket bat works well.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: deadsirius on March 15, 2018, 06:30:37 AM

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


So hard to understand why so many people don't get this.

I saw it phrased somewhere earlier pretty well:  this is probably the only time we've had youth marching in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away.  It's scary.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 15, 2018, 07:40:42 AM
I think the right to be shot at school is overrated.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 15, 2018, 07:50:39 AM
It's an inalienable right. 
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: DuckDodgers on March 15, 2018, 08:15:15 AM
Since Parkland we have had one teacher leave a pistol where students could get to it, I believe a student actually found it in the empty classroom and turned it in, another lock himself in his class and threaten harm with a gun if anyone tried to come in, and now a teacher discharging a gun accidentally while in class.

Those are the reasons I don't like the idea of arming teachers.  I'd rather see a ban on civilian versions of military rifles, raising the buying age to 21, stricter background checks, universal background checks, and law enforcement ability to open competency investigations on those who are suspected of causing harm in the future (through reporting, self proclamation, etc.)
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 15, 2018, 08:19:48 AM

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


So hard to understand why so many people don't get this.

I saw it phrased somewhere earlier pretty well:  this is probably the only time we've had youth marching in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away.  It's scary.
Do you know how many "rights" you've given up in order to live inside a society? People decide some rights are worth giving up to protect others and thus laws are made. No one wants to interfere with your right to defend yourself. The issue is with guns. The only explanation I have for the American fixation on guns is the NRA brainwashing you people. What's scary is that people think the right to own guns is so important you can put it above the right to life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Crouton on March 15, 2018, 09:29:46 AM
Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?

Some ideas. 

The easy one, copy whatever every developed nation is doing where they get much better results than we do.  That might be untenable since our Constitution guarantees it as a right and not a privilege.

The more difficult ones;
Universal background checks.
In addition to domestic violence there's a number of other crimes that are strong predictors of violent behavior, like excessive cruelty to animals.  Make those convicted of these crimes ineligible to buy a firearm.
Raise the age to buy any firearm to 21.
Ban assault style weapons like the AR-15(I don't know if that would help).
3 day waiting periods for any gun(I also don't know how much that helps).
Fund the CDC to study gun violence.
These school shooters tend to visit websites where they idolize other school shooters.  Get the FBI to monitor those sites.
Make it mandatory to secure your guns with a lock(this might already be a law).
Put a tax on guns and use it to fund ad campaigns for basic gun safety.
Modify future designs of schools in such a way that makes mass shootings more difficult.

I really don't think arming teachers is a good ideas just because teaching is its own profession and being a SWAT officer is its own profession and there's so little overlap between the two that I don't there'd be enough of them to do any good.  It's a policy that's more likely to increase the incidents of careless idiots leaving guns in their desks.
 A lot of the talk I'm hearing out of the powers that be seem to be focusing on just school shootings.  It's like they forgot about the Vegas massacre and that Texas church massacre.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 15, 2018, 09:42:07 AM
Get Americans to lose their " shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more, and then when everybody's dead start asking questions" mentality.

Seriously, things don't have to escalate to a gunfight right away.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: TotesReptilian on March 15, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?

Some ideas. 

...

I remember a previous discussion where several people mentioned being Hardcore History (Dan Carlin) fans, so I'm going to draw from something he said in one of his episodes on the Mongols. An obvious goal of medieval warfare was to surround your enemy. Sometimes this results in surrender, but sometimes this results in the enemy digging in and fighting to the last man. Not fun. A common tactic that the Mongols liked to use was to intentionally create a small opening for the enemy to escape through. This resulted in a disjointed retreat that was easier to deal with than a dug-in enemy. They essentially created a pressure release valve.

It strikes me that these shooters often see themselves as the enemy of society. Surrounded by a society that they hate and that hates them. The pressure builds up and up and up until there is an explosive pressure release in the form of a mass shooting. Most solutions given tend to revolve around plugging that specific release vector. This is obviously important, but the pressure will still be there, and will find a different outlet eventually.

I think the ultimate solution involves building an easier-to-handle pressure release into society that triggers before something drastic happens. Or finding ways to prevent the build up completely. This requires actual research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996)

I know this was super vague and mostly useless. This isn't really an area of knowledge/interest for me. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 15, 2018, 12:08:23 PM
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 15, 2018, 12:29:38 PM
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Seriously, I don't understand how some people cannot see this. It's so obvious; people tick out every once in a while. And if they have a gun at hand ... umm could end badly!
The husband of an aunt of mine had a severe depression/burnout. After treatement, he said that if he had a gun with ammo at home, he would have shot himself when he was at his worst mental state (obviously not the same as shooting others, but you get the point).

Anyway, if I have kids one day, I 100% certainly will not let them attend a school with armed teachers and armed personnel.


About the 'but I'ma need a gun for protheectinn mah hoome!':
I bet the risk that you shoot someone you actually know (or an unarmed person in general) unintentionally is way higher than you actually stopping a armed robber in your home... Also, you having a gun in your hand makes the risk of you getting shot waaay higher if the robber spots you first.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Shifter on March 15, 2018, 01:21:01 PM
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Seriously, I don't understand how some people cannot see this. It's so obvious; people tick out every once in a while. And if they have a gun at hand ... umm could end badly!
The husband of an aunt of mine had a severe depression/burnout. After treatement, he said that if he had a gun with ammo at home, he would have shot himself when he was at his worst mental state (obviously not the same as shooting others, but you get the point).

Anyway, if I have kids one they, I 100% certainly will not let them attend a school with armed teachers and armed personel.


About the 'but I'ma need a gun for protheectinn mah hoome!':
I bet the risk that you shoot someone you actually know (or an unarmed person in general) unintentionally is way higher than you actually stopping a armed robber in your home... Also, you having a gun in your hand makes the risk of you getting shot waaay higher if the robber spots you first.

Agree with da Swede. :o How many times has someone ended up shooting their own partner when they come home in the middle of the night because they were 'spooked' while in a half awake/asleep state. Or how many times has a kid found it and played with it resulting in killing them selves or their siblings

The idea of defending yourself at home but the law requires you to have you gun locked in a safe is kind of ridiculous. No one is going to do that. So a robber comes in and you have to say 'hold up! I just need to get my gun out of the safe!'. Not going to happen. Probably have it fully loaded on a bedside table.

I'm not sure how you can say on one hand you are the land of the free, but on the other hand have to sleep with a loaded gun each night for protection.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Twerp on March 15, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
I'm not sure how you can say on one hand you are the land of the free, but on the other hand have to sleep with a loaded gun each night for protection.

Good one! lol
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: deadsirius on March 15, 2018, 01:48:58 PM
One great thing about America is everyone is also free to not have guns.

Personally I'd shoot anyone who tried to force me to have a gun
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: JerkFace on March 15, 2018, 06:34:30 PM
One great thing about America is everyone is also free to not have guns.

Personally I'd shoot anyone who tried to force me to have a gun

LOL. 

The inverse question is the more important,  what happens when a law is passed requiring everyone to hand in their assault rifles?

Do they start shooting?   

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 16, 2018, 12:13:23 AM
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 16, 2018, 04:11:56 AM
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
So you'd start shooting people because your grandpa liked guns? Um, I'm not sure I follow...
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 16, 2018, 11:15:23 AM
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
So you'd start shooting people because your grandpa liked guns? Um, I'm not sure I follow...
It's 4chan logic.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: disputeone on March 16, 2018, 09:56:51 PM
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 17, 2018, 05:13:56 AM
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Do you shoot people every time a law you don't like is passed? And I get wanting to defend your family and yourself etc., but your guns? You'd shoot someone because he wants to take your gun? Would you shoot someone for trying to get your fridge or something? Oh wait, bad example, fridges are much more useful and vital than assault rifles.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 05:24:08 AM
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Do you shoot people every time a law you don't like is passed? And I get wanting to defend your family and yourself etc., but your guns? You'd shoot someone because he wants to take your gun? Would you shoot someone for trying to get your fridge or something? Oh wait, bad example, fridges are much more useful and vital than assault rifles.
The joke is, he'd shoot the officer trying to enforce the law, that had absolutely nothing to do with passing the law and is just trying to enforce the law. And that officer probably has a family at home...

Anyway, I'm sure he wouldn't actually shoot anyone in real life.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 06:00:05 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.

Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Pezevenk on March 17, 2018, 06:03:18 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on March 17, 2018, 06:36:31 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.

To change the American constitution it would take 2/3 of ths states to be on board with it. I doubt that will happen.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 06:36:55 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.

I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Ours has a special set of clauses that specifically limit government's power over the population. Government is specifically forbidden to pass specific laws.

We may be holding on to antiquated idealism, beats the fuck out of Iran's government.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 06:40:40 AM
Confiscating self defense tools is not as simple as passing a law.
It would require a constitutional amendment revoking the second amendment.

There is a prescribed process for that.

Foreigners and ignorant Americans think laws can just be made up on the fly to suit the mood du jour.
You're not the only country with a constitution. This is not a discussion on how feasible it is to pass a law like that and dispute is not american.

To change the American constitution it would take 2/3 of ths states to be on board with it. I doubt that will happen.

The world and many Americans don't understand the USofA is a collection of 50 semi-independent countries.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 07:10:32 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 07:36:43 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 17, 2018, 08:08:49 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 09:07:14 AM
I have not read the Constitutions of other nations. I am lazy. Plus I don't care.
Typical american attitude.

Give me a link to your country's Constitution.
http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf (http://www.parliament.am/library/sahmanadrutyunner/Sweden.pdf)

Better not be more than three pages.  ;D


I'll read it and get back to you.
Title: Re: Another mass shooting...
Post by: Bullwinkle on March 17, 2018, 09:23:03 AM
Aw, fuck, it's more than three pages.   ;D

I'll finish reading the document. Like any important document, it can't be digested all at once.
At least I can't consume it in one chunk. Give me a day and a half or three. I think that is fair.

Is there a part that I should pay special atten