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Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #300 on: December 08, 2022, 05:59:11 AM »
Quote from: Slime on December 07, 2022, 07:22:46 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 07, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Quote from: Slime on December 07, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

---that all goodness is defined with reference to God.

Classic definition.
God is to be the epitome of both good and evil. unless you wish to put a name above his.

That would mean the killing is better than curing.

Do you see that killing instead of curing, as the better moral path?

Regards
DL
Epitome of both good and evil is always going to be dubious. The argument typically goes that God cannot have contradictory traits - there's no square circle, or married bachelor etc. If you want to get into the grounds of logical contradictions being allowable, it's fine if we're talking a God that transcends logic, but then necessarily we're in territory where we can't talk about anything.

So, if God has an opinion on, say, killing unprovoked in some specific context, then that opinion will be either good or bad. It can't be both simultaneously - that gets us to logical contradiction.
So, with respect to this argument, goodness being defined with reference to God's nature, gives as evil defined by the negation/going against, with no need to define a higher being. (Honestly, more than anything this ends up exposing issues with non-axiomatic moral systems and leaving the moral argument in tatters, but I'm fine if you want to go that way)

But God can have complementary traits.



The Two teams Ching mentions Heaven & Earth (that is, God) does not take sides. It also mentions that the way of heaven is to help and not harm. That is, these ppl who focus on that God kills and thinks that this is the point, there is something wrong with you, not with God. All things, including what we call evil are done for balance and overall good.

Sun is very good for the growth of plants, and rain is unpleasant. But a Christian pastor himself told me that you can't have sin all the time or you have a desert. If God didn't have our physical bodies die of age, not only would there be no afterlife but we'd be stuck in misery on this Earth.
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Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #301 on: December 08, 2022, 08:21:53 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 08, 2022, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 07, 2022, 01:20:48 PM
Quote from: Slime on December 07, 2022, 01:11:23 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 07, 2022, 12:54:14 PM
First. It is an assumption based on belief in the supernatural that has never been shown to exist.

Entities suffer. Not imaginary ones.

" good would be that which is contained in that deity's nature, and evil that which is not -"

??

You do not believe in the duality of God or reality then.

You ignore both the bible and the First Commandment.

We all beat the crap out of God as we can reproduce while he cannot, but I did not know a human could be more evil than your God.

Who do you name above Yahweh for evil?

Regards
DL
Ah, okay, we've been talking at cross-purposes for a bit. I'm certainly not Christian, just interested in the philosophy of this issue - hence the 'Can God suffer?' question being a fun conundrum. If you want my personal beliefs, you're going to get criticism of grounding morality in a God and inherent concerns with transcendental entities for starters - but, from the more mainstream perspective, God is treated as the grounding of morality, hence using it for the illustration.

I will say, I disagree with the characterisation of 'If God does not contain evil, then an evil entity is above God.' The continuation of that would be, if we suppose such an evil entity, "This evil entity does not contain good traits, so something must be above it," and you end up in an infinitely long ladder of successive deities.
"God cannot do evil," is rarely taken to be a critique of omnipotence - it's the same as "God cannot create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift," "God cannot create a square circle," an all-good being cannot do bad else we could suppose a more good being. God does not need to be able to do the logically contradictory - though, even if we allow for that, definitionally nothing God does can be a contradiction as we lose the ability to apply logic.
Arguing for something to be 'above God' in terms of evil, is the same as arguing something can be 'above God' in terms of weakness. If God is taken to be omni- then definitionally, everything is more evil, more weak, more stupid than said God.

Apologies for my kneejerk reaction, and yes, I was giving thoughts to Christian perspective.

Grounding morality in a God is the last thing I would recommend as well.

We called Yahweh a vile demiurge way back when.

I am trying to convert Christians who have yet to develop a moral sense.

Easy that, except when they ignore the scriptures. The majority.

Regards
DL

If you want to talk about scripture I'd be happy to teach you.

Thanks.

Can you tell  me what Jesus meant when he taught the following, as it relates to how immoral Christians are who would not step up to their own responsibilities?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Regards
DL
 
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Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #302 on: December 08, 2022, 08:30:54 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 08, 2022, 05:59:11 AM
Quote from: Slime on December 07, 2022, 07:22:46 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 07, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Quote from: Slime on December 07, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

---that all goodness is defined with reference to God.

Classic definition.
God is to be the epitome of both good and evil. unless you wish to put a name above his.

That would mean the killing is better than curing.

Do you see that killing instead of curing, as the better moral path?

Regards
DL
Epitome of both good and evil is always going to be dubious. The argument typically goes that God cannot have contradictory traits - there's no square circle, or married bachelor etc. If you want to get into the grounds of logical contradictions being allowable, it's fine if we're talking a God that transcends logic, but then necessarily we're in territory where we can't talk about anything.

So, if God has an opinion on, say, killing unprovoked in some specific context, then that opinion will be either good or bad. It can't be both simultaneously - that gets us to logical contradiction.
So, with respect to this argument, goodness being defined with reference to God's nature, gives as evil defined by the negation/going against, with no need to define a higher being. (Honestly, more than anything this ends up exposing issues with non-axiomatic moral systems and leaving the moral argument in tatters, but I'm fine if you want to go that way)

But God can have complementary traits.



The Two teams Ching mentions Heaven & Earth (that is, God) does not take sides. It also mentions that the way of heaven is to help and not harm. That is, these ppl who focus on that God kills and thinks that this is the point, there is something wrong with you, not with God. All things, including what we call evil are done for balance and overall good.

Sun is very good for the growth of plants, and rain is unpleasant. But a Christian pastor himself told me that you can't have sin all the time or you have a desert. If God didn't have our physical bodies die of age, not only would there be no afterlife but we'd be stuck in misery on this Earth.

Do you see that killing instead of curing, as the better moral path?

As to sin, we are both happy of our ability to sin, if I read you right and I infer that you would love to see our children do it as well.

As Christians sing, sin is a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

Why they then complain of Adam's sinning is never discussed.

Regards
DL
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #303 on: December 08, 2022, 10:15:58 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 08, 2022, 05:59:11 AM
If God didn't have our physical bodies die of age, not only would there be no afterlife but we'd be stuck in misery on this Earth.

He seemed to let a few go on long after their expiration dates.

Oldest people in the Bible:

10. Enoch – 365
9. Lamech – 777 
8. Mahalalel – 895
7. Enos – 905
6. Kenan – 910
5. Seth – 912
4. Adam – 930
3. Noah – 950
2. Jared – 962
1. Methuselah – 969
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #304 on: December 09, 2022, 10:10:48 PM »
They pleased God, and they seemed to enjoy their lives. If the wages of sin are death, these guys didn't earn much.
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #305 on: December 09, 2022, 11:29:29 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 09, 2022, 10:10:48 PM
They pleased God, and they seemed to enjoy their lives. If the wages of sin are death, these guys didn't earn much.

In all of humanity, no one since these guys have been worthy enough to get God's ok to live longer than 100 and change years, let alone 300+? And why did God grant Noah more than Adam but less than Methuselah?
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #306 on: December 09, 2022, 11:41:43 PM »
Noah had to live through a flood, I suspect. How long do you think you would need to round up two of every species on Earth, plus build a ship to hold them?

And I didn't say they were without sin.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 11:43:32 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #307 on: December 10, 2022, 12:12:57 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 09, 2022, 11:41:43 PM
Noah had to live through a flood, I suspect. How long do you think you would need to round up two of every species on Earth, plus build a ship to hold them?

And I didn't say they were without sin.

In all of humanity, no one since these guys have been worthy enough to get God's ok to live longer than 100 and change years, let alone 300+?
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Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #308 on: December 10, 2022, 08:46:21 AM »
Quote from: Stash on December 09, 2022, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 09, 2022, 10:10:48 PM
They pleased God,

So why did God punish them so harshly, and in fact, murdered A & E by neglect and locking away what would have kept them alive, the Tree of Life?

Regards
DL
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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #309 on: December 10, 2022, 08:48:25 AM »
Quote from: Stash on December 10, 2022, 12:12:57 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 09, 2022, 11:41:43 PM
Noah had to live through a flood, I suspect. How long do you think you would need to round up two of every species on Earth, plus build a ship to hold them?

And I didn't say they were without sin.

In all of humanity, no one since these guys have been worthy enough to get God's ok to live longer than 100 and change years, let alone 300+?

Indicating that the bible lies.

The intelligent have always known that.

Regards
DL
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #310 on: December 10, 2022, 12:51:08 PM »
At one point after Noah, it was planned that life would reduce to 120 years. But there was a grace period before this happened, where some people were still born who lived long lives.

Snake Snake Snaaaaaake, kindly explain how whatever model of morality and understanding of the world you have is infinitely better.

Are you really as intelligent as you think?
“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,”  (Romans 1:22)

The difference between a myth and a falsehood is that a myth is a fiction written to convey ancient truths, while a falsehood is often presented as though it were the truth but nothing decent results from it.

The Bible is a myth. It gets stuff wrong. But what the Bible teaches to us is worth learning.
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #311 on: December 10, 2022, 01:53:22 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 10, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
At one point after Noah, it was planned that life would reduce to 120 years.

At the start of Chapter 6 the Lord is explaining why He will bring a Flood upon the earth. Specifically, demonic forces have been interacting with human women in an effort to pollute the human race, which threatened the seed promise to bring a Messiah through a woman (see Gen 3)

In the first half of v.3 the Lord declares He cannot allow these dire circumstances (i.e., demons mating with women) to exist indefinitely, saying His Spirit will not strive with men forever. God would eventually act to correct this problem or else mankind itself would be threatened by the demons' actions. So in the second half of v.3, the Lord sets a limit on His patience. He declares mankind's existence on earth (under these circumstances) will be limited to 120 years. God was not speaking of a single person's lifespan but of the time until the flood would come. In 120 years, a flood would come and erase all life from the earth.

Notice in v.3 the Lord said that man's days "were numbered," referring to a coming judgment. Even today, we use a similar phrase to say that someone's end approaching (i.e., we say "his days are numbered."). This is what God meant in verse 3. Mankind's days on earth were numbered to 120 years, then the flood would come.
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #312 on: December 10, 2022, 03:58:51 PM »
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 10, 2022, 08:48:25 AM
The intelligent have always known that.

The universe runs like clockwork and we struggle with everything we do and fall far short of perfection.

Tell us, oh wise one, how much smarter you are than he who made the trees to bear good fruit and seeds?
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #313 on: December 10, 2022, 04:28:30 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 10, 2022, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 10, 2022, 08:48:25 AM
The intelligent have always known that.

The universe runs like clockwork and we struggle with everything we do and fall far short of perfection.

Tell us, oh wise one, how much smarter you are than he who made the trees to bear good fruit and seeds?

It seems that I have more faith in the quality of God's works than you do.

You even reject your bible that says that from the initial and eternal perfection of God, only perfection can come.

I will work harder to answer with you, but you would have to be able to argue against the Gnostic Christian view, and you cannot, unless you ignore science.

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL


 
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #314 on: December 10, 2022, 04:39:37 PM »
Do you think you can better understand God through logic rather than with Faith?

You're not quoting scripture.

This is not the best possible world for us. It is corrupt and fallen, despite our corruption you cannot deny the works of His perfect hands.

When I look around now I stand in awe of His glory, His beauty and His perfect plan. He has a perfect plan for you, if you'll let Him work on you. I promise, let go of your pride.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 04:42:04 PM by disputeone »
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #315 on: December 10, 2022, 05:02:29 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 10, 2022, 04:39:37 PM
Do you think you can better understand God through logic rather than with Faith?

You're not quoting scripture.
If you're theistically inclined, then it seems to me scripture is at best secondhand. You can argue divine inspiration, but it still needed a mere human to put quill to paper, and countless more to copy it down. It seems more reasonable to me to look for the firsthand creation - the universe, your soul and all the abilities it possesses. Those seem to have a more immediate connection to a God than any scripture could possibly have, without any need to worry over how much was inspired and how much was added later.
So, yeah. I'd say if there is a God, logic is a far better tool to use. It's what we were given to understand the universe with, why would it be made to fail as soon as it mattered most? It and the universe ought be the truest scripture of all. Otherwise God would be deciding to lock understanding away behind literacy and accessibility.

I'm not going to claim to be a Gnostic Christian, nor to have much familiarity with the modern iteration, but there's value in alternate approaches.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #316 on: December 10, 2022, 05:10:01 PM »
You see value in alternative approaches because that is your personality type. We had a good talk about this in the 1+1=2 thread.

The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture.

The beauty of everything gives testament to His perfect hands but we were also given His words through His prophets and His only begotten Son Jesus.
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #317 on: December 11, 2022, 07:56:57 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 10, 2022, 04:39:37 PM
Do you think you can better understand God through logic rather than with Faith?

You're not quoting scripture.

This is not the best possible world for us. It is corrupt and fallen, despite our corruption you cannot deny the works of His perfect hands.

When I look around now I stand in awe of His glory, His beauty and His perfect plan. He has a perfect plan for you, if you'll let Him work on you. I promise, let go of your pride.


Do you think you can better understand God through faith, the belief in nothing, rather than with logic and reason?

If you understand God, explain his killing us instead of curing us.

If your God's plan is so perfect, why are you discriminating against the souls he created so perfectly?

Regards
DL
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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #318 on: December 11, 2022, 07:59:08 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 10, 2022, 05:10:01 PM
You see value in alternative approaches because that is your personality type. We had a good talk about this in the 1+1=2 thread.

The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture.

The beauty of everything gives testament to His perfect hands but we were also given His words through His prophets and His only begotten Son Jesus.
Your God is less than a person as we can reproduce true and do not need settle for a half breed chimera half God.

Regards
DL
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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #319 on: December 11, 2022, 08:02:49 AM »
Quote from: Slime on December 10, 2022, 05:02:29 PM


I'm not going to claim to be a Gnostic Christian, nor to have much familiarity with the modern iteration, but there's value in alternate approaches.

I wish the inquisitors and jihadists would start thinking in your better way.

Regards
DL
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #320 on: December 11, 2022, 05:01:50 PM »
Quote from: Stash on December 10, 2022, 12:12:57 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 09, 2022, 11:41:43 PM
Noah had to live through a flood, I suspect. How long do you think you would need to round up two of every species on Earth, plus build a ship to hold them?

And I didn't say they were without sin.

In all of humanity, no one since these guys have been worthy enough to get God's ok to live longer than 100 and change years, let alone 300+?

For what purpose?
God most likely allowed Moses to live for so long because Moses was a representative of Gods Authority on Earth.

There is no need for that now, as Christ is the eternal King.

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on December 11, 2022, 07:56:57 AM
Quote from: disputeone on December 10, 2022, 04:39:37 PM
Do you think you can better understand God through logic rather than with Faith?

You're not quoting scripture.

This is not the best possible world for us. It is corrupt and fallen, despite our corruption you cannot deny the works of His perfect hands.

When I look around now I stand in awe of His glory, His beauty and His perfect plan. He has a perfect plan for you, if you'll let Him work on you. I promise, let go of your pride.


Do you think you can better understand God through faith, the belief in nothing, rather than with logic and reason?

Yes.

God cured me.
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #321 on: December 11, 2022, 05:52:35 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 11, 2022, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Stash on December 10, 2022, 12:12:57 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 09, 2022, 11:41:43 PM
Noah had to live through a flood, I suspect. How long do you think you would need to round up two of every species on Earth, plus build a ship to hold them?

And I didn't say they were without sin.

In all of humanity, no one since these guys have been worthy enough to get God's ok to live longer than 100 and change years, let alone 300+?

For what purpose?
God most likely allowed Moses to live for so long because Moses was a representative of Gods Authority on Earth.

There is no need for that now, as Christ is the eternal King.

Why is there no need for that now? And Moses wasn't the only multi-century dude. An alleged God had his son killed thousands of years ago. And that means nothing to me and 6 billion other people on the planet. 
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #322 on: December 11, 2022, 07:05:30 PM »
Six billion?
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #323 on: December 11, 2022, 07:20:53 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 11, 2022, 07:05:30 PM
Six billion?

6 billion non-christians in the world.

Edit: 5.7 billion non-christians in the world.



2.3 billion Christians
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 07:25:20 PM by Stash »
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #324 on: December 11, 2022, 07:27:27 PM »
What year is it Stash?

Muslims believe in Jesus.
Also, Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

So not quite six billion.

Do you know what year it is?
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #325 on: December 11, 2022, 07:35:32 PM »
If you don't want to answer that's fine.

It's the year two thousand and twenty two in the year of our Lord Christ Jesus, Anno Domini.

Tell us more about why Jesus means nothing to most people.
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #326 on: December 11, 2022, 08:19:39 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 11, 2022, 07:27:27 PM
What year is it Stash?

Muslims believe in Jesus.
Also, Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

So not quite six billion.

Do you know what year it is?

2022 CE

Sorry, The Quran rejects the Christian view of the divinity of Jesus as God incarnate, or the literal Son of God

Sorry, Jews believe Jesus did not fulfill messianic prophecies that establish the criteria for the coming of the messiah. Judaism does not accept Jesus as a divine being, an intermediary between humans and God, a messiah, or holy.

2.3 billion christians
6.7 billion non-christians
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #327 on: December 11, 2022, 08:23:03 PM »
It's just that he did.
Jesus did fulfil the messianic prophesy in the Torah, perfectly.

Go back and read the Torah, either it's Jesus, or God lied to you.

Muslims believe in Jesus.

Christ Era or C.E is a modern version of Alto Domini.

Two thousand and twenty two in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #328 on: December 11, 2022, 08:29:28 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on December 11, 2022, 08:23:03 PM
It's just that he did.
Jesus did fulfil the messianic prophesy in the Torah, perfectly.

Go back and read the Torah, either it's Jesus, or God lied to you.

Muslims believe in Jesus.

Christ Era or C.E is a modern version of Alto Domini.

Two thousand and twenty two in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry, The Quran rejects the Christian view of the divinity of Jesus as God incarnate, or the literal Son of God

Sorry, Jews believe Jesus did not fulfill messianic prophecies that establish the criteria for the coming of the messiah. Judaism does not accept Jesus as a divine being, an intermediary between humans and God, a messiah, or holy.

2.3 billion christians
6.7 billion non-christians

Whether they believe he existed is neither here nor there. Muslims and Jews do not believe that Jesus was the son of god, plain and simple.

Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet. But they do not bleieve, at least from the Quran perspective, he was Not the son of god. He was a creation of god just as Adam was a creation of god. Not "Sons".

Same for Jews - They do not believe he was the son of god.

Do you get it? NOT son of god.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 08:47:13 PM by Stash »
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disputeone

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #329 on: December 11, 2022, 08:32:36 PM »
You're a robot.

Muslims believe in Jesus, Stash.
Ask Wise or even Yasoo.

Either Jesus is the Jewish Messiah or God lied to Adam. Your decision to make.

Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.
There is no one else.

Muslims believe Jesus will return to defeat the anti-christ and unite all believers in the one true faith. So he's very important in Islam.
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Quote from: Crouton on July 15, 2024, 05:37:14 AM
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.
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