Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #960 on: April 10, 2023, 05:48:58 AM »
I can believe a flood event happened in the area where the alleged Noah lived. I can believe an ark could be built and he took some animals on it. It clearly didn't happen everywhere though. Did Australia flood? Why is there evidence of Aboriginals living here for the past 60,000 years? Cave paintings made many thousands of years ago that should have been destroyed in a flood, still pristine? Animals like Emus, Kangaroos and others unique to Australia still around?

Many countries around the world have uninterrupted histories. They clearly didn't suffer an extinction level flood event


Also 2 of every animal is not enough to sustain a population. The human race also needs at least 100-150 individuals and very specific breeding to start with to ensure we can maintain a healthy genetic profile. The idea that the human race was reduced to Noah, his wife (no longer breeding), so just his 3 sons and their wives is ridiculous.

We have seen results of inbreeding and it always ends up in death of the family line. In a hideous fashion too. And with so few individuals - how far can they really travel as nomads with the technology they had at the time?

And where did all the coloured people appear from all of a sudden if they were all wiped out?


Can we just agree that the story of Noah as told in the bible is not a true account of history at least as far as the entire world is concerned?

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #961 on: April 10, 2023, 06:08:05 AM »
Flood myths from around the world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
Quote
Australia
  • Tiddalik: A water-holding frog awoke one morning with an extreme thirst, and began to drink until all the freshwater was consumed. Creatures and plant life everywhere began to die due to lack of moisture. Other animals devised a plan for him to release all of the water he had consumed by making him laugh. As Tiddalik laughed, the water rushed out of him to replenish the lakes, swamps and rivers.
  • Lizards vs Platypuses: The world became overpopulated with birds, reptiles, and other animals. Therefore, a meeting took place in the Blue Mountains to mitigate this. Tiger Snake planned that birds and animals who have good mobility should migrate to a new country. The lizards, who knew about rainmaking, decided to rid the world of the platypuses, whereby instructing all of their family to perform the rain ceremony. The lizards fled to mountain tops, before a deluge covered the land below, destroying most of the world. The flood eventually ended and there were no platypuses. After some time Carpet Snake observed the existence of platypus. The animals discovered that they were all related to the platypuses, who were then invited back and treated as ancient value. Eventually the head platypus married into the bandicoot family, although platypuses were never comfortable with other animals

It's nice every now and then, if you learn to research on your own.

And yes, some countries do have uninterrupted histories.

A worldwide event can mean one of two things.
1. The water level was high enough to cover every inch of land, and everywhere was flooded. This is not what I mean.
2. The water rose at every area of Earth, but only actually succeeded in permanently flooding certain lowlands. We have large body of scientists that already accept that the Bering Strait used to be connected to US Alaska through land (or at least ice).

Given that from South America to Australia to Europe to China, to Africa all say the same thing, yes some flooding did occur. But it didn't completely remove all land. It did however happen worldwide.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2023, 06:16:13 AM by bulmabriefs144 »



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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #962 on: April 10, 2023, 06:14:40 AM »
Flood myths from around the world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
Quote
Australia
  • Tiddalik: A water-holding frog awoke one morning with an extreme thirst, and began to drink until all the freshwater was consumed. Creatures and plant life everywhere began to die due to lack of moisture. Other animals devised a plan for him to release all of the water he had consumed by making him laugh. As Tiddalik laughed, the water rushed out of him to replenish the lakes, swamps and rivers.
  • Lizards vs Platypuses: The world became overpopulated with birds, reptiles, and other animals. Therefore, a meeting took place in the Blue Mountains to mitigate this. Tiger Snake planned that birds and animals who have good mobility should migrate to a new country. The lizards, who knew about rainmaking, decided to rid the world of the platypuses, whereby instructing all of their family to perform the rain ceremony. The lizards fled to mountain tops, before a deluge covered the land below, destroying most of the world. The flood eventually ended and there were no platypuses. After some time Carpet Snake observed the existence of platypus. The animals discovered that they were all related to the platypuses, who were then invited back and treated as ancient value. Eventually the head platypus married into the bandicoot family, although platypuses were never comfortable with other animals

It's nice every now and then, if you learn to research on your own.

Oh. Aboriginal fables that talk of some water LOL. And even if those fairy tales were true, it does not depict a flood that drowned the entire continent

You will clutch at any straw, no matter how ridiculous to justify your BS

Perhaps you could also find some fables for China, Japan, Africa and South American countries all supporting a flood that killed everyone off

Perhaps you could explain how the human race survived no problem after being reduced to just 3 breeding pairs a few thousand years ago?

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #963 on: April 10, 2023, 11:31:27 AM »
The implication of Noah was that humans were quickly becoming a lost gene pool.
But God turned a destructive event into a means of showing his promise not to do it again, and his covenant with humanity. Not just gays get the rainbow. Everyone does.

God drowned, 750 million people, men, women, children, babies, and every other creature on earth save for a handful of humans and the pairs of elephants and giraffes and mosquitos, etc.

And yes, he promised not to fuck up again and murder everything. In my world a genocidal murderer doesn't get to kill everyone and then say, "My bad in the first go. I promise, this time I won't murder you all again. Just trust me on that, OK? We cool? Great, now worship the shit out of me or go to hell..."

Actually mosquitoes could fly, and like to breed on water sources, so there was no reason to take only two of them on an ark.

Only the female mosquitoes feed on blood. Male mosquitoes feed on plant nectar and juices. Where were every variety of plant stored on the ark? And mosquitos can fly for 40 days?

Where were every variety of insect stored on the ark?
How did Noah nab "every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark to keep them alive with you."?

Every creature; birds, mammals, reptiles, all flora, insects, everything, even all of those not indigenous to Mesopotamia. Every creature from around the world.

Either:
- Noah's ark is a lie and didn't happen
OR
- Noah's ark happened and God drowned 750 million people, men, women, children, babies, and every other creature on earth

Pick your poison.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #964 on: April 10, 2023, 02:30:11 PM »
Bottom line.

Supernatural thinking and beliefs are not the best way to think.

Some of the speculative nonsense of supernatural thinking can get us thinking out of a box, but it has to relate to the real physical world.

Facts should and will always trump supernatural thinking.

God was always meant to be defined as a mystery.

The intelligent and moral do so, as we reject the vile demiurges on offer.

Regards
DL
 

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #965 on: April 10, 2023, 03:25:07 PM »
None of you understand satire, or the idea of something being intentionally bad to make a point.

Because I'm Autistic, moron.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #966 on: April 11, 2023, 07:03:30 AM »
Bottom line.

Supernatural thinking and beliefs are not the best way to think.

Some of the speculative nonsense of supernatural thinking can get us thinking out of a box, but it has to relate to the real physical world.

Facts should and will always trump supernatural thinking.


Why?

Why should "facts" trump supernatural thinking? Why will they? You don't even know the simplest facts are true. So everything you know is based on possibly faulty assumptions from you, or secondhand knowledge from someone who seems smart. Nothing is actually a fact.

The sky is blue. That's a very simple fact, right. Well uhhh no. You see, unlike the other colors, blue isn't really a pigment. It has to do with specific way light is reflected.
https://bestlifeonline.com/blue-in-nature/
And in fact, ancient humans seem to have not been able to see blue skies. So we don't actually know the sky is blue.
https://www.grunge.com/285728/the-real-reason-ancient-people-didnt-see-the-color-blue/

Math problems? Even the simplest number equations like 2+2 rely on defined terms. Two is this and this (pointing). But if you have double vision due the drunkenness or an eye problem, you seeing four things not two. If you're on hallucinogenic substances, you're seeing anything but two things. And if it's binary...

Two doesn't exist (at least not with translating binary into values).

Facts aren't real. In the end supernatural truth is the only thing that matters, as when you're cold and in a cave, placating the bear with weird sacrifices means the difference between the bear eating you and the bear getting you honey.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_worship
The ancient cavemen knows their bear god is real, just as I know God is more real than a cave bear.

No amount of facts will save your life, if they aren't true facts. If the chips are down and you're in the southern hemisphere, and to get back to New Zealand after a plane crash in Peru, you decide to head south rather than east. If you're mistaken about the Earth being round, then you never get to New Zealand that way.

But if you're on the verge of starvation and having a positive attitude gets you to grow crops instead of saying "it's hopeless, there's nothing but seeds here" then yes supernatural thinking is of far greater worth than facts. Supernatural thinking allows us to embrace the world with a mindset. Having been in a few situations where I thought I was gonna die, having a mindset is very important to whether things fail or not.

This is the mindset of atheism.

You get sidetracked from the proper duty of a child (playing and having fun) to learn "facts". Foe years and years you sit in these classrooms, then it's done and you sit in an office, then it's done and you sit in a nursing home.

And none of those facts were true. They were factual, yes. But truth is something entirely different. in the end, your life is meaningless, and now that you're about to die, you ask is that all there is? Because if there's nothing beyond that, you've just wasted things in a sad and dreary way doing the same as everyone else. If there's no God and no afterlife, then the world is an incredibly dark and gray place made even worse by politicians.

Jesus didn't see things that way. Neither do most religions.




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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #967 on: April 11, 2023, 07:39:25 AM »


Facts aren't real.

Thanks for the insight, stupid.

Try using a dictionary.

Regards
DL

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #968 on: April 13, 2023, 05:11:28 AM »
That's the only resource you guys know how to use.

 "Dictionary definition says marriage is no longer between a man and a woman so..." If you don't understand the how and why of knowledge and facts, you shouldn't trust them.

 Dictionaries give meanings not based on objective truth but on most common meaning of a term. This means that words can be distorted and can even have the opposite meaning.

Literally
Quote from:  Dictionary.com
adv.
1.in the literal or strict sense

2. in a literal manner; word for word

3. actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy

4. in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually


Definition 4 is bending the truth. With the introduction of definition 4, you have people saying stuff like "I literally died of stage fright." You figuratively died of stage fright.

 In effect or virtually stretches to mean "not at all, but sorta."

The point being that a fact is worthless, if you can't understand where they come from or how to know they are true.

There used to be a section in libraries known as methodology. That is, how do we know what we know. But that got phased out I think. Now people are allowed to be cocksure of "facts." Facts don't exist.

 Here's a simple math problem.

PE
MD
AS

I aligned the math order of operations because some people confuse the hierarchy, and skip subtraction to add first. But the order of operations goes left to right, except when a higher hierarchy comes along.

So in school we were taught that this is just left to right:
2+4-2+1-3,
while this multiplies first before adding:
2+4x3,
or 2 and 14.

With me so far? Well when I was working in a library I discovered that what you are taught isn't necessarily right.

I would have to average something (I forget what), and I quickly discovered that the technical calculator for the computer would do it wrong. The more sophisticated the calculator, the more I would have to use brackets, because it would add all previous numbers. In other words, the cheap solar calculator would always average right because it had no memory.

84+85+86/3 according to order of operations is
86/3 first, then 84+85+28.6667=197.6667

Congratulations. If you had a job as a teacher, all your kids are doing brilliantly according to this. You however are fired.

If you aren't able to question facts, you will always believe things that aren't so.

How does a thing get created when nobody is there to create it? Oh right, "It just happens." So by your logic, trees don't come from seeds, but just kinda appear fully formed without a cause.
Cause and effect is one of the simplest science rules, and it was developed when science worked hand in hand with religion. Now that science has taken leave of religion, the very basic logic that a canoe doesn't just appear on the banks of a shore, someone built it and bought it and owns it, this escapes the minds of so-called non-superstitious people. Or they think that doesn't apply to the universe and to life.

There must be an Origin. Sorry.

Supernatural truth will always and should always trump "facts."

 Were I your teacher, I'd teach cause and effect, then critical thinking, then launch into Hawking and the others in science who proposed a godless universe. I'd gush over them to give you the impression that I really liked them. Then I'd give you an essay test that asked "Given what we know about cause and effect, use critical thinking to form a conclusion about Hawking's (et al) theories of a self-created universe." And I'd enjoy giving you an F for that test, as you wrote a long complicated answer telling me what you thought I wanted to hear, that nonetheless missed the part where Hawking was wrong.



忍者は明白なことを超えて考える必要があります
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 05:38:38 AM by bulmabriefs144 »



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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #969 on: April 13, 2023, 05:19:50 AM »
That's the only resource you guys know how to use.

Yeah, I know, facts are really a terrible resource.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #970 on: April 14, 2023, 06:14:57 AM »
No, I mean, the goto for people who can't do actual research is to look at a dictionary.

 "Dictionary.com says this:
Quote
flat-earther
(flat-ur-ther)
n.
1. a person who adheres to the idea that the earth is flat.
2. a person who clings to an idea or theory that has long been proved wrong.
so my research is done! :closes_the_book:"

 I kid you not, it actually gives that as a second definition.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/flat-earther
So does Wikipedia, as I know from watch youtube videos with a wikipedia disclaimer.

Neither of them offer up what this "proven wrong" looks like.

You see, in order for facts to be facts, they must be observable. I have observed Jesus (long story, unless you say you wanna hear it). I have not observed, ever, the godless causeless universe that atheists propose. I have however seen numerous things from babies to jet planes, all of which were designed and created. And I've written, what is it now, 17 books? Though many are variations. I currently am working on a Japanese translation for Oracle of Tao.
https://www.amazon.com/Oracle-Tao-Earth-Trilogy-Japanese-ebook/dp/B0C2BPD4BH/
If you've ever tried to translate a language you dunno, you understand what a chore it is to get meaning right, and to make sure they didn't gobble up words (Google Translate likes to do this). Yes I know that created things are actually created, they don't just happen. Which means I absolutely know God is real. Whether he cares for us can be questioned (he does, but sometimes I don't feel it) but whether he exists is rather obvious.

I have however seen how feminism and LGBT  rights, the great champion causes of the secular world have failed. Birth rate in South Korea is a shocking .7 meaning the average woman doesn't have children. Overpopulation indeed, the secular world is about to hit population freefall, because beyond simple equality between men and women, women don't understand what fuck they want, and men are completely tired of feminists all around them blaming them for everything. I had a girl I liked, who liked me for being a weird person into women's clothes. After years of hanging out though, I realized I was probably too fucked out to raise a child myself (though I help my sister and brother out), and I also realized she was pretty squarely asexual and we'd still be unmarried at age 60. She's a good friend, but I don't know any other girls so... Anyway, the biblical scholars are right when they say that the way of the wicked is doomed (that includes ppl like me, and I accept that). You can see the secular world die out in real time.

 And I can clearly see that light has a limited range (cannot be from "outer space" millions of miles away), that horizons are flat, that water doesn't bend even in a curved container (it separates, meaning no glass water-filled model would work, as it would immediately show water dripping off the Earth), and so on.

Oh look, water has to be pumped, and as much as you can get it to turn, water doesn't remain on top.



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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #971 on: April 14, 2023, 07:19:34 AM »
No, I mean, the goto for people who can't do actual research is to look at a dictionary.

 "Dictionary.com says this:
Quote
flat-earther
(flat-ur-ther)
n.
1. a person who adheres to the idea that the earth is flat.
2. a person who clings to an idea or theory that has long been proved wrong.
so my research is done! :closes_the_book:"

I would say that this place is proof that some people don't just say, "so my research is done! :closes_the_book:"

You see, in order for facts to be facts, they must be observable.

One individual's observation(s) does not make for fact.

Oh look, water has to be pumped, and as much as you can get it to turn, water doesn't remain on top.

One individual's observation(s) does not make for fact. If the world were to rely on just your experience and your observations as "proven" or "fact", we might as well be back in the bronze age.

(Aside: Out of your 17 books, which one would you recommend to me?)

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #972 on: April 14, 2023, 10:31:41 AM »

I would say that this place is proof that some people don't just say, "so my research is done! :closes_the_book:"

It's filled with those exact people.

You see, in order for facts to be facts, they must be observable.

One individual's observation(s) does not make for fact.

I see. So I could stare at the sun taking notes until I eventually start to go blind, write down all my observations, and... submit it to a review panel, who instead of verifying the facts as observed and coming to a newer consensus, they go with established dogma, and categorically reject everything I observed. Yes, this sounds very scientific.

Oh look, water has to be pumped, and as much as you can get it to turn, water doesn't remain on top.

One individual's observation(s) does not make for fact. If the world were to rely on just your experience and your observations as "proven" or "fact", we might as well be back in the bronze age.

We got out of the Bronze Age because people using their own observations, acted on those and made things. Had there been a review panel in the Bronze Age like there is today, we would still have:
1. Rubbing mud on people's eyes as medicine
2. No running water
3. No  power. All your cool computer stuff? All movies? Books? Games? Gone.
4. More importantly no private toilets or clean water. Wanna use a sponge to wipe your ass while several other men watch you do your business? Wanna die of some easily treatable disease because of awful water?
 
These consensus reviewers aren't part of science. They are gatekeepers to the free exchange of ideas. All that actually matters is one person's observations (and that they are not insane, and can make accurate observations). Hopefully they repeat those and their conclusions aren't distorted. But even insane observations are better than groupthink.


Quote
(Aside: Out of your 17 books, which one would you recommend to me?)

Depends. You want fiction? Nonfiction?
New Gaia is a TSR-style dice & paper game. I constantly update the rules though, so you're gonna have to decide on house rules and stick with them. You'll also need some friends.

For fiction, I have Oracle of Tao, Town of Winter, and In the Moment. I suppose, if you really only read one, Oracle of Tao is in a cute little trilogy with larger print (the original had to be shrunk to 8pt, because it was a War & Peace type novel).
I don't recommend reading Town of Winter or In the Moment without reading Oracle of Tao. I suppose you could, but I feel like there would be a sense of disconnect.  But if you want the whole epic that you can read on Kindle, check out this.
https://www.amazon.com/New-Earth-Trilogy-Samantha-Hooker-ebook/dp/B0BZTGCTVH/

Ummmm, start with Oracle of Tao: Sidequests.
https://www.amazon.com/Oracle-Tao-Sidequests-Earth-Trilogy/dp/B0BZFCJ8N2/
The middle book. It's a good place to start with a brief recap (Ambrosia is a beggar girl called on a holy mission (of course) who meets a bunch of ppl in Book I. Among these is the villain sorcerer Yazim Jianne. She battles against a demon Belial, collected about eight tattoos with mystical powers. Things didn't go so well last time though...)
I personally think it's the best section of Oracle of Tao, as the other parts have more of a driving story, but this is kinda less so, and more like open-world gaming. It also introduces the main theme of the book near the end of Book II: Sidequests. Plus there's a yawning cat. How can you say no?


(Disclaimer: cat not featured in actual novel)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 11:53:49 AM by bulmabriefs144 »



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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #973 on: April 14, 2023, 12:07:29 PM »
The greatest fiction and rewrite of our initial collective religious myth, is The Bible.

It shows a natural as well as supernatural God.

Regards
DL

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #974 on: April 14, 2023, 12:38:06 PM »

I would say that this place is proof that some people don't just say, "so my research is done! :closes_the_book:"

It's filled with those exact people.

I actually don't know any here. If there were some, those people would just say, "the book says...done..."

No one does, or very few and far between. I actually see it more on FE, maybe because there's way more evidence for GE. There's just a ton of FE, "...conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy...indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination...shuts book."
Someone providing evidence and disagreeing with you are not the people you describe. It may just feel that way because they are disagreeing with you. Which is natural.
People here generally provide justification for their views. The quality of said justifications may at times be questionable, but at least they are there. And you'll often find that there is a tremendous amount of pushback against anyone who tries to just, "because I said so," without evidence type of folks if they do come ambling about. You'll also find a few of us GEr's who push back on other GEr's who do that or have shit arguments, in essence, GEr's defending FE.

You see, in order for facts to be facts, they must be observable.

One individual's observation(s) does not make for fact.

I see. So I could stare at the sun taking notes until I eventually start to go blind, write down all my observations, and... submit it to a review panel, who instead of verifying the facts as observed and coming to a newer consensus, they go with established dogma, and categorically reject everything I observed. Yes, this sounds very scientific.

You're strawmannig your way right through this as usual. If you have your notes with measurements, documented observational/experimental techniques that are repeatable, show a solid body of evidence, clearly demonstrating that you have extremely compelling evidence to overturn a massive body of evidence and experimentation that already exists, people will take notice. They will repeat your work with the attempt to falsify (What science does) your results and then see what the outcomes are. Happens all the time. That's why GR still exists because people have been trying to falsify it for nearing a century. So far it has held up. Though we keep doing so as more revelations come to the fore, more knowledge, better equipment, etc., and will continue to do so. That is science.

You saying that rainbows arc meets none of the above criteria.


Oh look, water has to be pumped, and as much as you can get it to turn, water doesn't remain on top.

One individual's observation(s) does not make for fact. If the world were to rely on just your experience and your observations as "proven" or "fact", we might as well be back in the bronze age.

We got out of the Bronze Age because people using their own observations, acted on those and made things. Had there been a review panel in the Bronze Age like there is today, we would still have:
1. Rubbing mud on people's eyes as medicine
2. No running water
3. No  power. All your cool computer stuff? All movies? Books? Games? Gone.
4. More importantly no private toilets or clean water. Wanna use a sponge to wipe your ass while several other men watch you do your business? Wanna die of some easily treatable disease because of awful water?
 
These consensus reviewers aren't part of science. They are gatekeepers to the free exchange of ideas. All that actually matters is one person's observations (and that they are not insane, and can make accurate observations). Hopefully they repeat those and their conclusions aren't distorted. But even insane observations are better than groupthink.


Again, you're just strawmannig away. A veritable clear-cutting buzzsaw of made-up absolutes. Everything is so black & white with you. No sense of nuance whatsoever. All that matters is one person's observartions? Fine, I've never observed god. Therefore god does not exist. Boom! Done. All should take my one observation as absolute truth. No if's, ands, or buts.

You do realize that many, many things are not created by committee, right? Just because large swaths of reality disagree wit you doesn't make you right and that it's just that the "groupthink" has its thumb on your temple. You may just be wrong. Maybe you're insane and can't make accurate observations. Has that ever occurred to you?

Everything is not a one size fits all gig. Why you seem to think so is just bizarre. Pro tip, some of your insane, ridiculous notions based up your "observations" may actually be a smoldering hot mess of utter garbage. But somehow your ego won't allow you actually examine it and see that to be the case. Because every opinion you have with just your "observation" as evidence, to you, seems to be golden and spot on and unquestionably correct.

You're not special. You have to operate under the same rules the rest of us do: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I think I'll start with Oracle of Tao: Sidequests. I'm even gonna go with the hardback. It's in my cart now.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #975 on: April 15, 2023, 04:50:45 AM »
It's not an extraordinary claim though.

That God exists is an ordinary claim.

The ancients knew God existed in some sort (some explained this through polytheism, I'm not sure God cares what we believe or he'd take definite sides in the Catholic vs Protestant conflict). They could see the blessings in the harvest, in the sun, the rain, in victory in battle, and even in bad fortune and death.

It's not that they "couldn't explain" nature and we enlightened ppl have all the answers. It's that God's hand was all around them and had a direct tie in their life.

One of the problems of modern life is that we get aloof from the actual blessings. We don't grow stuff, so Thanksgiving is just a day to eat turkey and watch football. And many of us live in the city where the rush of life forces us into a frenzied pace. When I worked at Amazon, I rose and got to work before the sun rose, and it had practically set after I got out. That job depressed me, but even there I had a distinct view of how God was relevant. Precisely because I could see that job led to a black hole (Bezos is a legit sadist, and offers ppl incentives to quit). Suppose I was a follower of Apollo (sun deity) and had that job. I'd lose my faith pretty quickly. That's what the frantic rush of modern life does. Convinces us God isn't there cuz we're too busy to notice him.

We see God as existing as an extraordinary claim. It's quite ordinary. God is as common as the air we breathe (I say this, having asthma due to being out of shape, having shut myself up ironically after COVID was big, as I finally got sick of people pushing my away, and just avoided them), the ground we walk on, and the people we meet.

The extraordinary claim is saying that we can't know God exists, it is more difficult a claim to "know (something) does NOT exist," especially because that claim involves searching everywhere at all times. We could have reasonable cause for believing something does exist at the first sign, we have to outright acquire disproof to be sure God doesn't exist .

Think of a unicorn. They're quite elusive. Are we sure they don't exist? Or maybe we just haven't seen them. God is much more common than a unicorn and without the rainbow filled orifices.We've just lost our sense of wonder, and demand proof for someone who can be seen in everything we see.
==============================
I'd follow it up with Book III, then In The Moment, and then Town of Winter, (then Book I somewhere in there, if you wanna know how it all started with Ambrosia). Kinda, what's thar Star Wars method of watching? Machete something or other. You get a sorta weird look at the series, and the last two books just sorta work in. Book I is my longest section and really big enough to be its own book. It's also the most like a regular novel, whereas In The Moment is deliberately in nonsequential time to kinda wrap things together (almost in a schizophrenic manner). Town of Winter is ordered by topic.

And yes, I do have a flat Earth in book, but there's a specific story reason to do so. And I keep changing the shape of Earth actually! And the world's history also changes a few times.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023, 05:44:20 AM by bulmabriefs144 »



Quote from: Themightykabool
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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #976 on: April 17, 2023, 06:06:57 AM »
At church yesterday, the minister quoted statistics. Apparently 83% of the US population thinks that Jesus himself had a good idea for humanity (even atheists don't hate on the guy himself, except for the hardcore). But she said only about 38% of people think Christians are really living that message, with most common complaint among non-Christians that most seem to be mean and judgemental people. She then went on to spout some crap about loving everyone equally. I'm reminded of my study of Mohism (thanks to my background in history and religion, I know about obscure Chinese faiths), where universal love basically meant they don't actually love anyone.

I agree that moral hypocrisy is a problem. But I think this statistic doesn't account for a very important demographic.  That is, many atheists aren't friends with any Christians. All of their friends are woke atheists like themselves. So the only Christians they know of are from films. Even the Christian films, many of them conflated moralism with Christianity. And the non-Christian films? Oh boy. I can't tell you how many LGBT films I've seen where the big mean Christian mother or father is not letting her live as the woman she really is. Such depictions are about as fair as depicting pro-abortion doctors eating babies or something.

That is, theism is an ordinary claim, but the existence or non-existence of God is largely academic, and is no different in Christianity from Judaism, Islam, or for that matter Hinduism (although mostly polytheistic, they have a sorta overdeity called Brahman, which is not much like the God of the Jews/Christians).
If you're still debating God, you're really still on page 1 of the conversation. The point of Jesus is the question of whether or not God actually cares for us, and whether non-religious ppl can have a relationship with religious ppl.
======================
It's a strange book, but hopefully you like it. I know I had fun writing it.



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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #977 on: April 17, 2023, 07:01:41 AM »
Atheists question whether or not Jesus even existed

Also the question whether religious people can have a relationship with non religious people is for the religious. Most religious people are pretty stuck up and intolerant. Then you have Islam, which dictates that they can not even be buried at the same area as non Islamic people. So a Islamic husband and a Christian wife? Forbidden to be buried together.

Most atheists or agnostics dont give a shit. Laid back and not allowing millennia old values dictate how they live their life or think. We live in an age where we dont need 'Gods' to explain our world. If a ship is lost at sea in a storm, do we blame Neptune? if there is a raging thunderstorm outside do we say it's Thor? The time will come when the Abrahamic God will have had its day and people wont throw away their lives and freedom to such fables. Much the same way people used to believe in Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Aztec Gods and so forth


Is there a creator of the universe? Maybe. But humans thousands of years ago who had virtually zero understanding of their place in the universe (and evidenced by the writings, clearly the 'Gods' that spoke to them didn't either) didn't figure it out.

People dont need 'Gods' to behave in a moral and civilised manner. And judging by the behaviour of some of the Popes throughout history, clearly religion certainly help them to be all that good of spirit to their fellow people either.

I would bet with religion out of the way, we would be a far more tolerant and peaceful society. It is religion which allowed a suffocating patriarchy. Religion allowed man to hit, beat and rape his wife. Religion allowed for the discrimination and abuse of gay people. Or of people born out of wedlock. It is religion which has allowed so much hate and intolerance to people with different ideas. Religion kept us from advancing our knowledge in science when they condemned, arrested and jailed people who dare speak the truth (eg Galileo). Religion allowed the 'burning of witches' etc. I could go on

Anyway, the sooner the world drops the religious bullshit - everywhere and every BS faith/cult, the better. Religion is good for ideas to make fictional movies. Beyond that, it's bullshit. Why enslave yourself - and others - to such nonsense.

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #978 on: April 17, 2023, 07:40:03 AM »
It's not an extraordinary claim though.

That God exists is an ordinary claim.

Not to me.

One of the problems of modern life is that we get aloof from the actual blessings. We don't grow stuff, so Thanksgiving is just a day to eat turkey and watch football. And many of us live in the city where the rush of life forces us into a frenzied pace.

Here's where you myopic narcissism comes into play. Just because you've had craptastic soul crushing jobs doesn't mean everyone else has.

I've had some amazingly fulfilling jobs and have lived right in the heart of a big city for years and have never found it rushed or frenzied. Quite chill actually. It's all in what you make of it. And I get that it's not for everyone. But that's the point. I don't smear my personal experience across all of humanity like you do. Claiming that I have the answers for everyone, like you do.

==============================
I'd follow it up with Book III, then In The Moment, and then Town of Winter, (then Book I somewhere in there, if you wanna know how it all started with Ambrosia). Kinda, what's thar Star Wars method of watching? Machete something or other. You get a sorta weird look at the series, and the last two books just sorta work in. Book I is my longest section and really big enough to be its own book. It's also the most like a regular novel, whereas In The Moment is deliberately in nonsequential time to kinda wrap things together (almost in a schizophrenic manner). Town of Winter is ordered by topic.

And yes, I do have a flat Earth in book, but there's a specific story reason to do so. And I keep changing the shape of Earth actually! And the world's history also changes a few times.

I don't get my hardcover copy of Tao until like the 5th or something. I  think for self-published folks, it's a print on demand scenario. Out of the 16 bucks what's your cut? Just curious as to how much bezos lines his pockets.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #979 on: April 17, 2023, 04:40:29 PM »
Let's put it this way. I get a far better cut (and you probably get your book far sooner) if you just do Kindle.
I get $0.87 for a hardcover book. It's loss leader. The Kindle version is about 40% of the price, meaning even at 2.99, I make most of it.

Hardcover is pretty much only I you want the feeling of sticking something on a shelf, stroking the binding, or fondling the soft feel of the book...



Well that, and the Kindle is not as pretty because KDF (their snazzy creator) doesn't actually work. It says "book cannot be published" what I try to do it that way. So I either make a doc or a pdf.  PDF in particular seems to like to ignore page breaks on the Kindle upload.

(I'll probably respond to the other stuff later)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023, 05:15:30 PM by bulmabriefs144 »



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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #980 on: April 17, 2023, 05:58:15 PM »
Let's put it this way. I get a far better cut (and you probably get your book far sooner) if you just do Kindle.
I get $0.87 for a hardcover book. It's loss leader. The Kindle version is about 40% of the price, meaning even at 2.99, I make most of it.

Hardcover is pretty much only I you want the feeling of sticking something on a shelf, stroking the binding, or fondling the soft feel of the book...



Well that, and the Kindle is not as pretty because KDF (their snazzy creator) doesn't actually work. It says "book cannot be published" what I try to do it that way. So I either make a doc or a pdf.  PDF in particular seems to like to ignore page breaks on the Kindle upload.

(I'll probably respond to the other stuff later)

Oh shit, sorry, I thought I was giving you more by going hardback. Plus I wanted something physical of your work. I just bought the kindle version. Writing is hard. It should be rewarded more, especially the self-published. I'm glad this now exists and is trying to be a disrupter to the Simon & Schusters of the world and their arcane elitism.

I've got a friend who self-published his novel a few years back. It's pretty good. But it is still hidden behind the mega-marketing and distribution walls of the NYC publishing cabal. I'm not sure why publishing hasn't been uprooted as much as record labels have. Not sure of the mechanics.

And I wonder how these self-published breakouts happen like Hugh Howey's 'Wool'.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #981 on: April 18, 2023, 07:06:24 AM »
Nah it's okay.

Pick the one you want.

 Printing is expensive, as I figured out by making exactly one self-bound book. I call it a softcover, as it is a hard cover without any stiff backing. Leather with cardstock paper (I had no cardboard, so I tried that) for the backing, leather lacing and glue to hold it together and to open or close, cotton paper as the inner stuff. The book cost like $50, $25 to print (library is $.10 a page but there were 500 pages, two-sided), $25 for the big strip of leather for the cover. The glue was free. I'm not if I paid for the leather straps but I think they were shoe laces for an old leather shoe. Professional publishers make money by having loads of cheap materials on hand.

One of the things I went into writing was to veer away from the idea of big contract. You know, you got to a job, you make good money, but the asshole nags at you to work harder and earn more. I worked at big companies, two named ones (Walmart and Amazon), but I had poor de-stressing skills, and I'd spend money or time to entertain myself, only to be less rested or more behind financially (I never got in debt, but I got to the point where my parents had to pay for my apartment, at which point I decided I was kidding myself about being independent). Then I moved home and worked at smaller companies. Going to a smaller company didn't help. I still felt stressed and nagged so I went  to work for myself. Evetntually, I realized the truth. The asshole nagging me to work harder and earn more? It was me. It was my own greed making me feel unhappy.
Around COVID,  I switched to working at home. The model I now work under is to try to view payment as a bonus rather than my main goal. I didn't get into this to make money (though some writers get highly successful in monetary terms), but to find a job that gives me peace of mind. And hopefully I have some people be like "I loved your book!" You can buy both if youre okay with waiting until the 5th. I know some people prefer the feel of hardcover, even though it's a lousy royalty.

What I usually get though is "Well... I tried to read your book."  I suppose that will have to do.  :(

 I currently have one fan (they mention having read my books, and then ordered them for the library), though I'm not sure my latest book (In The Moment) was all that great. I had a good idea, but the execution felt less than perfect. But yeah, writing books is tough. Either you do it for the money (you can either make alot with a publisher sponsoring you but see the asshole thing above, or you make not much money), or you do it for the love (and occasionally ppl don't like your newest work). I try to find job in the work itself, though sometimes I have to take a break when it doesn't feel rewarding. So I try to write books that I can enjoy reading, but then they aren't always what publishers think the public might read.

Quote
And I wonder how these self-published breakouts happen like Hugh Howey's 'Wool'.

They spend money to make money. They hand out free copies, they generate hype, and then their books start to sell. Or they're part of the porn genre, and in that case, no advertising is needed. My stuff usually needs a link because it's far down the list.





It's possible to do that, I just don't care about that. I want to make books that I enjoy reading and that other people ideally enjoy reading, though really I expect the response of "Well I tried to read your book..."

And yes, as you'll notice, I write like this even when not arguing with people.



Quote from: Themightykabool
crazy people don't know they're crazy.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #982 on: April 18, 2023, 07:22:12 AM »
Quote
Here's where you myopic narcissism comes into play. Just because you've had craptastic soul crushing jobs doesn't mean everyone else has.

I've had some amazingly fulfilling jobs and have lived right in the heart of a big city for years and have never found it rushed or frenzied. Quite chill actually. It's all in what you make of it. And I get that it's not for everyone. But that's the point. I don't smear my personal experience across all of humanity like you do. Claiming that I have the answers for everyone, like you do.

Bah, you know you secretly hate your job.

I think what tended to do it for me was stuff like wanting to be helpful. Like at the library, they had a computer that was displaying their announcements. I tried to fix it so the background would display that. Wound up making more work for them as nobody could figure out what I was doing.
Yesterday, I tried to help a wasp, stuck in a window pane I opened the window and tried to move the guy down towards the exit. The thing bit me for my trouble.

This kinda relates back to topic. Jesus wanted to save the world from their sins. Had he been a regular person, like me, he would discover that ppl (and wasps) don't wanna be helped. We're happy Jesus, we don't wanna be saved. Oh and also, crucify him. The Christian mindset is that unlike me, he actually succeeded because his goal wasn't about this world but the next. That he wasn't a regular human. Now you can chalk that up as wishful thinking, but I think it's something to aspire to.



Quote from: Themightykabool
crazy people don't know they're crazy.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #983 on: April 24, 2023, 03:57:28 AM »
Looks like this thread is finally dead. So ummm... enjoy your book if you managed to find a good version.



Quote from: Themightykabool
crazy people don't know they're crazy.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #984 on: April 28, 2023, 12:26:01 PM »
Well, here’s some more to the muddle:

I just saw a YouTube advert from a group called “One for Israel”.  Not sure how the omniscient Google algorithm tagged me for this one?

Seems this lot are Jews who believe Jesus is the Messiah.  Now, ignorant to the ways of religion that I am, I’d have thought that would basically make them Christians, right?  Apparently not.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #985 on: April 28, 2023, 12:56:42 PM »
israelis
hebrews
jews

they have many names
they identify as a peoples and/ or as religion.

a jew can be a christian which some the original jew followers were.


and i'm definitely NOT saying jew like JEW! (with accent of disdain while spitting on the ground).

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #986 on: April 28, 2023, 01:43:26 PM »
israelis
hebrews
jews

they have many names
they identify as a peoples and/ or as religion.

a jew can be a christian which some the original jew followers were.


and i'm definitely NOT saying jew like JEW! (with accent of disdain while spitting on the ground).

OK, I know said I was ignorant, so only have myself to blame.

I get that it’s kind of both a race and religion, I know that there are plenty of Christian Israelis, that Jesus and his early followers were Jewish, etc, etc

But this just seemed… something else.

If they want to preach about Jesus, then why make such a thing about being Jewish? It seemed to be aimed exclusively at Jewish people.  Just weird. 

And why the fuck am I, an English atheist getting these ads?  Maybe rejecting tracking cookies really does work after all?

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #987 on: April 28, 2023, 01:55:53 PM »
ya my wife got her period and we joked yesterday because fking YT sent me women's bathing suit ad that boasted period proof liner
hahaha
we don't even have a google sound device so how they found out?
crazy



anywho

islam and muslims
westerns and christian
israeli and jew

they just promoting their group because they want to hang out with jews who are christians?
do you think it's weird they're being oddly specific or you think it's weird becayse the jews-christian relationship?

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maga dating ap
rich person dating ap
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jew dating ap


Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #988 on: April 28, 2023, 02:02:32 PM »
Well, here’s some more to the muddle:

I just saw a YouTube advert from a group called “One for Israel”.  Not sure how the omniscient Google algorithm tagged me for this one?

Seems this lot are Jews who believe Jesus is the Messiah.  Now, ignorant to the ways of religion that I am, I’d have thought that would basically make them Christians, right?  Apparently not.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Indeed. They are Christians, who have forgotten or ignore the laws that Jesus taught.

Those are quoted in in the first TLDR below.

The explanation is that like most religions, the Abrahamic cults who believe in Yahweh and Jesus have always has a right wing supernatural believers, and a left wing who are not literal readers of their myths.

More on this from a Jewish perspective in the second TLDR below.

============

On Jesus dying for Christians, from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.

=========

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL



Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #989 on: April 29, 2023, 01:00:38 AM »
ya my wife got her period and we joked yesterday because fking YT sent me women's bathing suit ad that boasted period proof liner
hahaha
we don't even have a google sound device so how they found out?
crazy



anywho

islam and muslims
westerns and christian
israeli and jew

they just promoting their group because they want to hang out with jews who are christians?
do you think it's weird they're being oddly specific or you think it's weird becayse the jews-christian relationship?

cougar dating ap
maga dating ap
rich person dating ap
sugar daddy dating ap
jew dating ap

Well it’s not a dating app and they appear to be trying to convert rather than just hang out. 

Anyway, I think I’ve found my answer: Messianic Judaism.  An evangelical movement that identifies as Judaism, but everyone else apparently considers to be basically Christian.  I bet that pisses them off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

At least I’m not the only one who thought it seemed a tad contradictory.


I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

Thanks for the reply, but I personally don’t believe any of it, so you probably shouldn’t waste too much time on me.

I have no issue with other peoples’ religious beliefs as long as they don’t interfere with everyone else who doesn’t agree.