Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus

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bulmabriefs144

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Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« on: September 08, 2022, 07:16:21 PM »
    When I say the name Jesus, what is it you say?
    • Atheist: Oh not again. Look, I know I'm judged, and I'm going to hell. Just leave me alone, okay?
    • Agnostic: I don't know whether or not God exists, but I have no use for organized religion. Who is this Jesus, and why should I care about this?
    • Jews/Muslims: Three gods? That's polytheism. Anyway, this guy teaches things that are heresy.
      https://www.israelislamandendtimes.com/christians-stop-saying-jesus-is-the-son-of-god-it-provokes-muslims/
      The Son of God?!? Blasphemy.
    • Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhist/Other Faiths: I accept Jesus as a teacher, but what does he have to do with me? That's those Christians' thing, nothing to do with us.
    • Fundie "Christians": I thank God that I am not like those sinners. They are going to hell and stuff when the final days come. But I imagine Jesus would probably want them to hear the Gospel so they can be saved in time.
    • Leftist "Christians": Jesus taught "turn the other cheek" and "love your neighbor." So I think he wanted to push for social justice. And I don't see those Christians over there giving very much, and what is with their wanting guns?
    • Mainline Christians: I try to follow the words of Jesus, but I honestly don't understand why I am suffering so much. I give some of what I have to help the poor, but people look at me like some kinda judgemental type. I just wanna follow Jesus, but it feels like I can't tell whether God is condemning me or whether I'm being blessed by the trials of the cross. And it says to "love others as yourself" but I can't seem to like myself.

    This seems to be the vibe that I get from all of these groups, from my experience.

    So this kinda a mix of piecing together what the man was about from context of history, and pulling apart some of the false Jesus models that kinda clog our understanding. So let's try to teach what Jesus really was and what he really taught. Let's start with addressing the concerns and/or misconceptions of each of these groups. Then if I have time later, people can decide whether we know what Jesus meant to say. I want to draw back the curtain of history.

    • Atheist: Fun story, Jesus did not come on behalf of judgement or even for the purpose of spreading religion. In fact, he spent the better part of his life defying priests. Nor is the idea of Hell a real biblical teaching.
      https://consciousreminder.com/2017/06/04/hell-place-eternal-punishment-not-biblical/
      Jesus came to create a new kingdom, a better world where people weren't judged. It is because human beings are in opposition to this with their adherence to tyrannical kings that this hasn't changed as much as it could.
      https://medium.com/dogs-with-buddha-nature/what-is-god-to-an-anarchist-3d59ae1a5b1f
      In fact, if you study the book of 1 & 2 Kings, you can find that far from God being an authoritarian, it is earthly rulers that want people to be  ruled, whereas God is an anarchist.
    • Agnostic: Honestly? Jesus died for all sins. Not just those for whom have faith figured out. You are free to believe whatever you want. Christianity is not a religion. It is an understanding that Jesus came to save all humanity. Whether you want a religion or not thereafter is up to you.
    • Jews/Muslims: The Trinity is not three gods. There is one God, and he appears to us as creator, savior, and spirit. We see Jesus not just in the New Testament, but repeatedly as the Angel of the Lord.
      https://overviewbible.com/angel-of-the-lord/
      The Angel of the Lord repeatedly distinguishes himself from other angels by speaking as though he were God himself. Moreover, it is highly probably that the "man" Jacob wrestled with was actually Jesus. 
      https://appleeye.org/2019/09/10/jacobs-wrestling-partner-jesus-in-genesis-32-and-35/
      It was Jesus who interacted personally with humans since Genesis.
      https://appleeye.org/2017/06/05/an-introduction-to-old-testament-christophanies-with-justin-martyr/
      So this business of denying Jesus on grounds of the Trinity being polytheism is an excuse, and worse, denying God in Christ. Moreover, to Jews, we can read the depiction of Ezekiel's temple with its lack of curtain, and direct entry to the altar, and it is pretty clear that Jesus is the final Temple, regardless of what is built later.
    • Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhist/Other Faiths: Jesus says in his speech about the good shepherd, "I have other sheep, too, in another fold. I must bring them also." Jesus's flock was not only the Jews but also the Gentiles. Not only those who believe in some religion, but all of humanity. Lemme explain. Some people point out how Jesus predates Christianity, pointing to a cult of Mithra, or even claiming that it comes from Egypt.
      https://in5d.com/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/
      But the point here isn't that Christianity lifted from other ideas. No the point is that Jesus, as John said, was there since the beginning. He was Krishna, Odysseus, Merlin, Dionysus, Glycon, Buddha, and Horus. Whenever God personally related to humanity, Jesus was there.
    • Fundie "Christians": Part of the problem of alot of Christianity (you'll notice that I quoted this and the next), is that many of them fall for the works doctrine of the Bible, forgetting that with Jesus came grace. This is is made worse by the addition of several sections in the NT pushed by Catholicism. During the Protestant Reformation, Luther tried and failed to remove several books, particularly Revelation but also Hebrews, James, and Jude. These books teach judgement, and many are about  about fixating on end times. Particularly, the idea that there are wicked sinners and righteous, and that it is up to us to go out and save everyone because end times are coming, as proven by barcodes/vaccines/some other "sign" that we see. I have provided some links to the contrary.
      https://johnworldpeace.com/thefalsebookofRevelation.asp
      http://www.thehypertexts.com/Essays%20Articles%20Reviews%20Prose/Michael%20R.%20Burch%20John%20of%20Patmos%20Revelation%20Errors%20Contradictions%202012.htm
      I'd also suggest renting "The Apocalypse Deception: The Book of Revelation is Not What It Appears to Be" by Fred Harding. The point being that the Book of Revelation is in direct contradiction of the words of Jesus. But what about Jesus predicting the apocalypse? No, actually his words are in the context of the fall of the Temple. And having read the Gospel after these things, I noticed something. In Matthew, Mark, and Luke the prophecy of signs in heaven and Earth with the fall of the temple are mentioned. And they mention the darkness during the crucifixion. John doesn't, and this passage about the darkness is absent. Instead, it says "But he was referring to his body." It isn't about end times. The end times are fulfilled with the resurrection of Jesus. Salvation is universal. If there is any doubt about this, we have 1 Corinthians and Romans and Galatians talking specifically about the heresy of thinking you can earn salvation.
    • Leftist "Christians": Just as fundamentalists get quoted because they are potentially lacking in compassion for sinners, leftists are often more consumed with politics than spirituality. They are only nominally "Christian" and confuse doing good things with Christian religion. But the kingdom of God is not of this world. We cannot do anything to fix this world. We can help people, but this world is supposed to be imperfect. We are supposed to be in the world but not of the world. We're not to be trying to change the world through political agitating.
    • Mainline Christians: Like fundamentalists, real Christians get screwed over by books such as Revelation. But they aren't trying to judge others. They are simply trying to earnestly live a righteous life and instead get beaten over the head by everyone else. In other words, they are embracing a worship of God that is unfortunately more like Judaism than Christianity. They are stuck in a path of self-loathing. This is why the Church of today is not particularly healthy. These Christians need to understand that Jesus died not for the righteous but for all people. Including all of the people mentioned in this list. We are saved by grace. I see this in action with people becoming kinda martyrs and trying to be altruistic, trying to measure up to some kind of unrealistic model of Christianity.

    Anyway, what do you think Jesus taught? I'm tired from these lists!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 07:20:52 PM by bulmabriefs144 »

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Rayzor

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 08:28:01 PM »
Yeah,  well that's just like your opinion man.



Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2022, 09:04:54 PM »
Tl;dr

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2022, 09:45:13 PM »
And like, what if it's not?

What if I've spent hours editing the Bible precisely because the Good News is not that "God will forgive our sins for awhile, but then he'll send the Mark of the Beast to torment gullible people", but that the second coming was actually the Resurrection and that "Nothing can separate us from the love of God"? The signs and wonders of Revelation sound very scary, and in the age of Big Tech, Bill Gates, a very very evil man has patented a system that he dubbed with the patent number 060606. But I'm here to tell you that not only does Revelation not agree on that number, but this is all a perverse trick. Nothing that humans make can distance you from God or his love. But as the Bible mentioned, you can be subject to a "great delusion".  The Good News is that Jesus wasn't sent for the Jews (they even rejected him, and he still begged for them to be forgiven), nor believing Gentiles, but for all of us.

A trans girl who got bounced from town to town as a child? Yes, she found love from Jesus. Because that trans girl is me.

This is the story of Jesus told from reading the history of the events carefully. The Jewish people were convinced that their Messiah would save only them, to be a warrior king, to reinstitute Jewish custom, and to rebuild the Temple. There have been three Temples in history but the Jews covered up one. Solomon built a Temple, after David begged God to let him build a temple.

In other words, God never wanted a Temple built by human hands.



Solomon's Temple was a fairly accurate representation of what God wanted. As you can see, this temple is more or less open to the public (provided they can climb steps), is somewhat small, and only really for prayers and worship).
Zerubabbel's Temple was the actual second Temple, and is much like Solomon's Temple, simple and to the point, not alot of barriers.



However, the second Temple that is known as the second Temple is Herod's temple. As you can see from the earlier picture, unlike the other two, Herod's Temple is a monument to separation from God.
1. It is built by a secular king not by a godly man
2. It is built to impose religious taxes on the public. This is happening while the Jews are also drowning in Roman tax debt.
3. In fact, the forgiveness of sins is a pay-to-play affair. If you had a sin, you were expected to buy an animal in the temple markets to sacrifice for your sin. In other words, if you are poor, your sins cannot be forgiven.
4. As you can see from the walls, this system was social stratification. Priests are separate from citizens. Men from women. Gentiles are kept out of worship. Leper? This was ancient social distancing in action.
5. Oh yeah, and the Jews not only thought salvation was limited to them, but since their previous leaders had been fighters, and because they misunderstood prophecy, they thought the Messiah would come to beat up the Romans and build a temple.

This is the setting that Jesus entered the world. But you see these 2 1/2 Temples here? Another one was predicted, known as Ezekiel's Temple. Much of what Ezekiel says is weird, but he predicts a Temple with no curtain, no court of women, and no wall separating Jews and Gentiles. In Christ, there is no distinction between men and women, Jew and Gentile. Even sinner and righteous. All of us have sinned and fallen short. More importantly, the curtain is to separate the sight of God from regular people. Yet this curtain tore from top to bottom, allowing all of us access to God.

This Temple began construction when Christ died (with the curtain) and completed when not one brick of the Temple was remaining (yes the Wailing Wall still stands, the wall is not the Temple, and the Jews are stupid to cry about a building that should have been destroyed immediately) at about 70 AD. 
Daniel likewise predicts a kingdom of God after several very corrupt earthly kingdoms. Alot of Christians misread this last empire as America when the end times come. But this is the Revelation image of punishment. Jesus's kingdom is the kingdom of God. If there was any doubt, pay attention to what Jesus says.

“The hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

A kingdom and a Temple are intended to be built. Not in some distant final days, but already. It was built by spreading the message of God. It does not matter to God that you also want to believe in djinn or cycles of Yin and Yang or ancestrial spirits. It only matters to God that you know that someone cared enough for you to do for you. This is the kingdom prophesied:
Quote
“In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

“The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

This prophecy is often read as this:


Then then scale the fall of

I ignore Daniel's commentary about where the kingdoms start and do:
1. Ancient Babylon (Gold)
2. Egypt (Silver)
3. Persia (Bronze)
4. Greece (Iron)
5. Rome (Iron/Clay)
6. Jesus's Kingdom (Kingdom of God)

But assuming he was right, the next empire would be the HRE, which was based on Rome. Not some distant future end times. Jesus shattered apart the pagan systems, and the Western world became thoroughly Christianized. This was all set up over the next few centuries as the Roman Empire became increasingly fragmented until Christian values replaced Roman values.

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bulmabriefs144

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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2022, 10:14:26 PM »
Out of all that, what's the point you're trying to make? Temple envy?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2022, 11:09:23 PM »
Out of all that, what's the point you're trying to make? Temple envy?

Nuhhh. (spaced for readability)

1. Revelation isn't true. It was made up by Judaizers, fake "Christians" that taught salvation by works and circumcision and following laws. It is a "gospel" meant to spread fear, and distort the teachings of Christ. It's false doctrine, and should have been dumped years ago.

2. The Second Coming is actually Jesus's raising from the dead. It already happened. We don't have to be afraid of any apocalypse: climate, robot, meteor, nuclear, whatever. It's not the end of the world, so to speak.

3. Ezekiel's Temple and the Kingdom of God is what Jesus came to this world to build. That is, the sacrifice on the cross was just to show us silly humans what we should have already known about God's plan for salvation. The real plan was not something anyone could stop. Jesus was born, Jesus died. Therefore God became connected with humanity, lived and died like us humans.

4. Loving your neighbor, helping others, all of that was to make a better way in this world, but improvements in this world are not necessary for the spiritual world. They are decent, they build merit, but we have grace (i.e. undeserved mercy and forgiveness of our sins) regardless. "God sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

5. Lastly, since Jesus is part of humanity, God can speak to us through humans. Jesus is present through family, friends, strangers, phone calls, Discord/Facebook. "Wherever two or three are gathered together..." You don't have to go to church. Christianity is about the human experience of connection.

6. This also means it is possible to see Jesus. Today. Without hallucinating. Even if you're not a Christian.

7. Cuz seven is a lucky number.

Was that too long also?

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2022, 12:09:24 AM »
Yaaaaaa


I think your pastor is lying to you.




Matthew 7:
15 “Watch out for false prophets.(K) They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.(L) 16 By their fruit you will recognize them.(M) Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?(N) 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.(O) 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.(P) 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.






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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2022, 12:45:34 AM »
Out of all that, what's the point you're trying to make? Temple envy?
Was that too long also?

Yes.

I still don't see the point you're trying to make. Can you just distill it down to something like, "We don't need all of the trappings and constraints of the bible, just be a good person and try and connect with others..."?

If so, you don't need a jesus to do that.

And aside from all that, what about the 6 billion folks who aren't christians?

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2022, 03:14:42 AM »
Another someone proselytizing myths from arid climes, nice.

When I was about 13 there was a debate set up in our English class on “is there a god?” and I volunteered for the apostate roll, rather than go for the science makes much of it redundant or how fucked up as a deity would you have to be to create everything, hide between the gaps and expect everyone to worship you, or else? I went with the thing that had struck me as I had asked the few people I knew who believed in one.

That being, none of them seemed to believe the same thing, even those who were Anglican couldn’t agree with each other over the details, never mind the bewildering number of denominations out there.

We had one RE teacher that told us miracles in the bible were obviously not literal just showed the power of suggestion and group thought, another a few years later, that they were very real, and he had seen a demon around the girl in our class who was disruptive.

And they had all, like this guy, studied the bible, and like this guy rejected the bits that didn’t resonate with them and cleaved to those that did, because you can, it’s a big book written by lots of people over quite a long time with different agendas. I did end with a plea to humanity to grow the fuck up (well not quite those words) and stop believing in fairy tales and won the vote by a 2/3rds majority.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Every man makes a god of his own desire

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2022, 11:25:13 AM »
Yaaaaaa

I think your pastor is lying to you.

Matthew 7:
15 “Watch out for false prophets.(K) They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.(L) 16 By their fruit you will recognize them.(M) Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?(N) 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.(O) 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.(P) 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

My pastor would be me (don't have enough connection with church leaders to listen to them), so uhhhh...

This idea is fine and dandy, but it applies to spiritually harmful ideas. Like the thornbush or thistles, a bad idea pricks us.

Galatians 1 says,
Quote
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

So let's compare my idea to the gospel. How does it stack up? Remarkably well, actually. We have the curse of the law, as Peter and others later commented on, shown large as life by the Pharisees and their behavior towards sinners. We have Jesus, in shocking contrast to this, offering grace to lepers, sinners, tax collectors, and other people deemed "unclean" by the law. These teachings in turn are passed on to the Letters. No, I have not found evidence that Paul "distorted" the gospel. In fact, his conversion in Damascus is the very model of this pattern, and what he teaches flows from that.

Now, let's compare Revelation and some of the trippy end times writings. Do they match Jesus's teachings? Except for a few mentions of being vigilant for the age to come (taken out of context), no, not really. So what do they match, then? Old Testament writings by Jews, particularly after some major disaster. These match the take on the Temple falling that a typical Jew would have. "One day, we will get our revenge..." Not a prophecy, a pipe dream, a revenge fantasy.

 

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2022, 11:29:49 AM »
oh man
wtf you on about with this jew business?




side note, interesting your response to Matt 7 and in the other thread you think trump (the liar) is the best thing ever.
i'm gonna say... your ability to comprehend the Bible is about as good as your ability to understand how circles and triangles work.

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Stash

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2022, 02:13:26 PM »
Classic example of someone reading a few passages about something that has been studied and poured over for centuries and is like, "No! It works like this..."

Delusions of Grandeur & Narcissism at its peak.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2022, 04:13:13 PM »
I think the only relavent question for this true magaQ, who defends the kids from the dem jew pedos - are the briefs bulma age season one or super saiyan 5?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2022, 10:23:13 PM »
Classic example of someone reading a few passages about something that has been studied and poured over for centuries and is like, "No! It works like this..."

Delusions of Grandeur & Narcissism at its peak.

Sorry bro, but the reason it works like this is that for centuries, people have taken the word of the canon writers that these are the gospel. Revelation itself made sure that canon is strongly enforced by this passage.
Quote
For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book. And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.

I am not arrogant enough to say "I know the right way to interpret the Bible and everyone else is wrong."
I am a skeptic, not a narcissist. I instead say, "But... what if you're wrong? What if some of these writings were frauds?"

I know the typical path of Bible writing. We study the Greek and Hebrew translation, which has resulted in yet another copy among hundreds, maybe thousands. We decide whether to translate literally, paraphrase, or a mix. But we never question whether there is text that in fact shouldn't be there.  But I wondered about that. After all, the Jews have been conquered and enslaved many times, and in fact there was ample opportunity for their enemies to try to destroy them in combat. But suppose this failed, and the Jews remained Jewish, a united people. How do we keep them in check?

Hey, I know! We distort their writings.
1. Now they have a history that tells them that Jews that don't share their history and have a different Bible are not REAL Jews. Voila, suddenly Jews are not allies with the Samaritans. Nor Christians.
2. We get them to adopt some Babylonian or Egyptian ideas. In particular, we get them to worship temples (not God, who is spirit) and laws (not God, who is about freedom from captivity). Not God himself, manmade objects.
3. We give them prophecies that distort their connection with the One True God, who wants us to understand that this world is created on behalf of all humanity. This one in particular is really bad, because it means that the Jews completely lose touch with the idea that God can become human and care for humans. It also means that the Christians and Jews are divided. The Christians blame the Jews for killing Jesus (even though he explicitly said his kingdom is not an earthly kingdom), and the Jews think the Christians are polytheistic heretics.
4. We also give the Christians false writings so that they doubt the very teachings of Jesus, and are unable to effectively lead any kind of meaningful change in the world (despite this, Christianity still did an immense amount of good, but for years it suffered under the Catholic near-monopoly on dogma, which even managed to convince the Orthodox church to accept these writings as canon).
5. Lastly, insert false writings into older text, so it isn't even clear what was trying to be said, blending it into existing ideas.

I employed my skills as an amateur historiographer and theological analyst (okay, I'm amateur at both of these things), and looked through quite a portion of this text. I learned the following things:
1. Revelation is clearly a distorted plagiarism of Ezekiel, not New Testament knowledge. Aside from name-dropping Jesus, it has literally nothing to do with the gospel. In fact, it is very clearly intended to distort what Ezekiel actually said as a sort of wet dream about (mostly Jewish) Christians fighting the secular world and purging the world of evil. At this point, I need to reference something quick. Remember John 3:16, the most commonly quoted passage from the Bible? I need to introduce you to the very next verse.
Quote
3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Another red flag is the stern warning not to remove this book (or any part of it), nor add anything to it. It is basically like saying "This is not some crappily-written hallucinations of a person who may not even be John, these are super-sacred prophecies." But Jesus directly warned against people that would come after him claiming to speak for him.
(Yes, I am aware of the irony here, but it's a necessary evil to warn against really crap writings)
2. I do not trust Zechariah either. Just as Jeremiah shows a false prophet telling the king what he wants to hear, here Zechariah is telling the Jewish people what they want to hear, "Never you worry, we Jews will have our Messiah, and he will destroy our enemies. And God wants us to be bloodthirsty savages who not only kill lambs and doves by the truckload but also tries to assassinate state authorities." A false prophet tells people what they want to hear. A real prophet tells the truth, even if it costs them their friends. Even if it costs their life.
3. Daniel 6 actually ends with this passage:
Quote
6:28 So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.
This is very clearly a "he lived happily ever after" segment. Instead, afterward, we have a shift from third person historical to prophetic, gradually switching to first person by about chapter 8. Textual changes are a read flag that it isn't the same person writing the text (as I discovered doing my own edits). It is clearly tampered with, and the fact that later passages, like Revelation say "an angel told me all of this" should give us pause.
Quote
Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of good news than the one we preached to you.
Rather than being a prophecy of Jesus, the one who comes to redeem us, it is a series of dark prophecies of end times. Daniel 2's prophecy seems perfectly fine, while these after Daniel 6 tell of specific timelines (possibly in order to discredit) and even claim the one who is Jesus will set up an abomination of desolation, and finally that there will be some great false prophet. I scrubbed those passages in my bible from the NT too, as they don't belong, so Jesus's prophecy of the Temple now reads as mentioned in the attachment below.
Prophecy of the Temple
The prophecy is not about the abomination of desolation (though technically, the Temple falling for centuries could be called that). It is about Jesus's death and resurrection, linked to the new creation of the kingdom of God. This is then paired with a coupled fulfillment of the prophecy, complete with the truth about what has happened with most of the Bible since then. That is has essentially been covered up, so that regular people and especially Jews, would have no hope of salvation (but salvation is unconditional, so the only thing this affects is that alot of people are suffering from the side-effects of ignorance).
4. Also, God is male and female in the Bible, but certain books, like Proverbs, are heavily tampered with to scrub this fact to prop up a patriarchal culture. As such, I removed a massive amount of text from the book, and renamed Proverbs to reflect what it was originally intended to be about, before hamfisted sayings from father to son were added. I then renumbered everything. The actual passage reads as a lady who even says she existed since the founding of the world (mirroring what John tells us of the Word of God), a coherent reference to Jesus, and a reference to a wise lady of the household. All of these work together to make a much shorter but more important book, which pairs beautifully with the Song of Songs.
Lady Wisdom
(Unfortunately, it turns out that I cannot attach files directly, so I have Discord download links if you wanna see this stuff)

« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 10:45:01 PM by bulmabriefs144 »

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2022, 10:32:30 PM »
oh man
wtf you on about with this jew business?

side note, interesting your response to Matt 7 and in the other thread you think trump (the liar) is the best thing ever.
i'm gonna say... your ability to comprehend the Bible is about as good as your ability to understand how circles and triangles work.

I have nothing against the Jewish people themselves.

What I do object to is their blind adherence to their rabbis, and their fixation with old scraps of writings. The Word of God is not dead text, never to be altered or discussed. It is alive.

Their rabbis literally altered their text to lead them astray.
https://torahresource.com/psalm-2216-like-lion-pierced/
https://preachersinstitute.com/2015/08/31/masoretic-text-vs-original-hebrew/

Also, the NT itself has errors. It's "jarmaker" not leper in the passage about costly ointment. Nobody comments on his leprosy. This passage would have come originally from Aramaic, which has no vowels. It's also probably "rope" not "camel". And there's a part that mentions basically making yourself a eunuch.

But the "errors" introduced by the Hebrew rabbis are intentionally designed to erase Jesus from prophecy.



This is why I agree with the Muslims that the Bible has been distorted (but I don't believe the nonsense assertion that Jesus was originally a Muslim or spreading teachings like this). Rather, Jesus preached peace when most people wanted the Messiah to flush outsiders from their lands and get rid of sinners. Jesus instead called people to welcome others and helps sinners.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 10:43:58 PM by bulmabriefs144 »

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2022, 02:27:56 AM »
Youll probably need to reconcile errors vs  manipulation of text vs interpretation with living text.

Youre right
If a file is editible, it changes over time and updated, it is a "living doc" in the business side of doc definitions.


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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2022, 03:46:09 AM »
Classic example of someone reading a few passages about something that has been studied and poured over for centuries and is like, "No! It works like this..."

Delusions of Grandeur & Narcissism at its peak.

Sorry bro, but the reason it works like this is that for centuries, people have taken the word of the canon writers that these are the gospel. Revelation itself made sure that canon is strongly enforced by this passage.
Quote
For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book. And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.

I am not arrogant enough to say "I know the right way to interpret the Bible and everyone else is wrong."
I am a skeptic, not a narcissist. I instead say, "But... what if you're wrong? What if some of these writings were frauds?"

That's cool. I'm down with that. It's just your opinion, you're not saying you're right, just asking the question(s). That's fair.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2022, 08:04:09 AM »

We had one RE teacher that told us miracles in the bible were obviously not literal just showed the power of suggestion and group thought, another a few years later, that they were very real, and he had seen a demon around the girl in our class who was disruptive.

One of those teachers should have been fucking sacked immediately.  Disgusting behavior.

We had one who showed us a video on D&D santanism (laughed my arse off at latest Stranger Things season).  Fortunately, none of the kids actually took it seriously, but it was a good excuse for some of them to give us nerds more grief for a term or so.

RE teachers, what a bunch of bastards.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2022, 08:26:07 AM »
Youll probably need to reconcile errors vs  manipulation of text vs interpretation with living text.

Youre right
If a file is editible, it changes over time and updated, it is a "living doc" in the business side of doc definitions.

This is precisely what I objected to with Revelation. Sorta, "Sorry, the book is closed, nobody can add anything to it. And by the way, we made an ending to this book that had 1/3 of the people die from pollution, 1/3 of the people die from natural disasters, and 1/3 die in the war between good and evil. But the righteous will be saved."

Ummmm yeah, there is a problem with your math.

Once I pulled Revelation out of my book, it was like a load was lifted from the text. I was able to come up with my own ending, which I did.

If anyone wants to read it, here's my interpret of the Bible.

Quote
One of those teachers should have been fucking sacked immediately.  Disgusting behavior.

We had one who showed us a video on D&D santanism (laughed my arse off at latest Stranger Things season).  Fortunately, none of the kids actually took it seriously, but it was a good excuse for some of them to give us nerds more grief for a term or so.

About that D&D scare. It was a hysteria that was based on a criminal investigation, where the detective made up this story in order to find a missing persons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dallas_Egbert_III
The actual truth of the matter? The person involved was depressed, had parents with overly high expectations, and was possibly meeting a gay lover. He had run away from home and the detective suspected this lover might hurt him, so he wanted a way to investigate without drawing attention to the real suspect. So this story about him LARPing in the sewer tunnels was concocted, and that somehow D&D was a source of ill fortune. This in turn led to Chick Tracts (beginning the Satanic Panic), and also resulted in a change of rules in D&D, scrubbing out many references to demons in favor of a more generic polytheistic cosmology. But all of this was based on a lie.

In fact, this is a good example of how the truth gets distorted in religion. The real story is that Egbert was a kid whose parents pressured him to have a perfect GPA, he burned out and wanted to leave, and he had gay feelings at a time when gay was not okay. No demons except those troubling him (i.e. depression/stress), and D&D was only incidental.

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2022, 08:50:03 AM »
Interesting, thanks.  Not heard of that before.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2022, 06:16:17 AM »
More elaboration on a point.

https://revelationsingrace.netlify.app/articles/why-its-important-that-jesus-already-returned

Basically, Jesus has returned already (in fact, he did so within the generation of the disciples).

Quote
If Jesus already came back, what's left in our future? How are we to understand evil’s continuing existence now that Christ has returned?

Quote
For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory His Father, with His angels, and then He will give to each according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste of death until they have seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

So, why hasn't anyone seen it? Because we went out of our way not to see it. To such an extent that they wrote a book of false prophecy that Jesus will return sometime in the future. Wait, he hasn't returned? Then what is this?

Quote
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. 2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. 5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.” 8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.” 11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13 telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ 14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” 15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. 16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

The resurrection of Jesus is clearly the return of Jesus.

So then, why does evil still exist? Because people are still allowed to make choices. Evil exists, because contrary to Revelation, God does not destroy people for having different opinions. It is us judging others as evil (for doing things like drive electric cars, for example), not that they actually are objectively evil. To God , who forgives our sins, our judgement about the good or evil of other people doesn't matter.

Quote
So then how are we to understand Jesus's promise to return in their generation? I can see only 5 ways we can explain it:

  • Jesus made a false prophecy or lied
  • He made an incorrect guess
  • God's plans were thwarted
  • We misunderstood him
  • He is telling the truth.


Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2022, 07:05:44 AM »
The Tl&dr is strong in this one.
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

Quote from: bulmabriefs144
The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2022, 11:59:44 AM »
Yeah, it's like when someone starts to describe the dream they had last night, "I was in a forest I have never seen, being chased by..."

I glaze over at about 'forest'.

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Alexei

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2022, 12:00:20 PM »
Fun fact: The pope and many Christians blamed Jews for killing Jesus when they didn't for many years.
Everyone hates Jews I guess.
Americans  ::)

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2022, 12:04:42 PM »
Being the favourite does put a target on your back

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Alexei

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2022, 12:05:48 PM »
Being the favourite does put a target on your back

Indeed, Kabool.
I used to be the favorite child before my younger siblings were born and my older brother, Raymond, would treat me like shit.

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hoppy

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2022, 02:23:37 PM »
More elaboration on a point.

https://revelationsingrace.netlify.app/articles/why-its-important-that-jesus-already-returned

Basically, Jesus has returned already (in fact, he did so within the generation of the disciples).

Quote
If Jesus already came back, what's left in our future? How are we to understand evil’s continuing existence now that Christ has returned?

Quote
For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory His Father, with His angels, and then He will give to each according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste of death until they have seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

So, why hasn't anyone seen it? Because we went out of our way not to see it. To such an extent that they wrote a book of false prophecy that Jesus will return sometime in the future. Wait, he hasn't returned? Then what is this?

Quote
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. 2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. 5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.” 8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.” 11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13 telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ 14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” 15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. 16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

The resurrection of Jesus is clearly the return of Jesus.

So then, why does evil still exist? Because people are still allowed to make choices. Evil exists, because contrary to Revelation, God does not destroy people for having different opinions. It is us judging others as evil (for doing things like drive electric cars, for example), not that they actually are objectively evil. To God , who forgives our sins, our judgement about the good or evil of other people doesn't matter.

Quote
So then how are we to understand Jesus's promise to return in their generation? I can see only 5 ways we can explain it:

  • Jesus made a false prophecy or lied
  • He made an incorrect guess
  • God's plans were thwarted
  • We misunderstood him
  • He is telling the truth.
Thanks Bulma! It's about time someone was reading a Bible around here.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2022, 05:53:46 PM »
Thanks Bulma! It's about time someone was reading a Bible around here.

I'm not sure that copying and pasting stuff from some random website constitutes "reading the bible".

Re: Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2022, 04:12:39 AM »
Being the favourite does put a target on your back

Indeed, Kabool.
I used to be the favorite child before my younger siblings were born and my older brother, Raymond, would treat me like shit.


Alexei and the technicoloured dream coat