What comes first?

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a.ham

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What comes first?
« on: June 10, 2023, 04:44:57 PM »
I have been pondering this conundrum for many winters but my thoughts have brought me nowhere. Now I come to you, wonderful people, with a question. what came first the chicken or the egg? my compatriots asked me this question a fortnight ago and I could not provide them an answer so I was wondering if you could reveal the answer.

Godspeed.
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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2023, 04:49:27 PM »
The egg came first.  Chickens evolved much later.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2023, 04:51:04 PM »
Dinosaurs are chickens!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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a.ham

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2023, 04:57:20 PM »
Dinosaurs are chickens!

You bring a very interesting point.
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gotham

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2023, 07:39:35 PM »
The egg did come first.

It was within the egg that life and death occurred over and over again for the required amount of time.

Then...the chicken cracked out of the egg once it determined a way out.


Re: What comes first?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2023, 05:31:01 PM »
I have been pondering this conundrum for many winters but my thoughts have brought me nowhere. Now I come to you, wonderful people, with a question. what came first the chicken or the egg? my compatriots asked me this question a fortnight ago and I could not provide them an answer so I was wondering if you could reveal the answer.

Godspeed.

Egg. There are different animals predating chickens that came from eggs.

Quote
Dinosaurs are chickens!

Dinosaurs are not real. They started discovering them after Darwin, having never found any in centuries of archaeology before that. "Dinosaurs" are evolutionary propaganda about how lizards and reptiles are related to birds. No, they are most certainly not!

Most museums have a "skeleton" but if you were to examine it closely, you would find that it is mostly plaster of Paris. So let's have a short test. You visit a museum and ask them if you can visit the vault that has the original parts of the dinosaur skeleton. Watch what they say.
I will bet money that they ask you to leave, even if you ask politely.
https://todaysfive.com/are-dinosaurs-real-five-reasons/

Quote from: Reddit

1.   Too many variations/species. No other animal is this diverse. Dinosaurs range from T-Rex’s to plant-eating dinosaurs to pterodactyls. Some walked, some mostly swim, some even flew. Some were carnivores, some were herbivores, and some were omnivores. No other animal has this diverse of species.

2.   They were just too big. Some were as long as blue whales and around half a blue whale’s weight, however, blue whales are oceanic creatures. The tallest current land animal is a giraffe, which can reach up to 18 feet tall. The longest dinosaur was nearly 85 long. Elephants can be around 13,000 lbs, the heaviest dinosaur was roughly 10x heavier than this. There is no way these land animals were THAT much bigger.

3.   Ties in with the previous point, there couldn’t have been enough food to go around. They were just way too massive and would’ve had to eat a crazy amount to sustain their size. The planet had much more oxygen and was much more lush back then, but even then, herbivores could not have eaten enough leaves/plants to sustain so many of them at such a massive size. Carnivores and omnivores also would’ve had to have eaten a significant amount and there just isn’t any way that could’ve happened.

4.   Way too many theories on how they became extinct (volcano, meteor, flood etc.) which could’ve been to get people to argue about that, rather than if they were even real or not in the first place.

5.   ***NOT SUPER FACT BASED*** Just think about dinosaurs…doesn’t even seem very plausible, does it?

6.   We’re just told as kids that dinosaurs and we don’t question it because we’re kids. Also, kids think dinosaurs are cool, so they’re even more inclined to believe in them. This is similar to things like Santa, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny etc., however, there’s no really way to discover that dinosaurs because we don’t even consider it and they’re not in our everyday lives.

 Possible disasters or global happenings around the early 1800’s (dinosaur fossils claim to have been discovered in 1824 by William Buckland)

Motives for faking dinosaurs?: Maybe they needed people to move there (kind of like the Loch Ness Monster)?

Side note: William Buckland was known to eat mice on toast, porpoise, panther, even puppies, AND ate a king’s heart; a.k.a. not sure if he can be trusted.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/william-buckland
Checks out.

I think alot of people don't question what they're told as kids (literally all the RE ppl here).

I'm not among them.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 06:33:32 PM by bulmabriefs144 »

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wise

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2023, 01:04:27 AM »
Clearly chicken is the definitive answer.

If you were God, which would you create? Is it an egg that's unclear what's inside, or a chicken that anyone who sees it will know what it is? This applies not only to chickens, but also to other egg-laying bird species, some fish species, and even crocodiles.

As evidence, it is written that Noah took two of each type of animal aboard his ark, but there is no evidence that he took eggs into the ark. In this case, assuming that all animals perished and only Noah's ark remained, it is seen that the chicken existed and the egg was formed later.

Let's take the matter a little more scientifically:

It is enough for a chicken even to be alone to lay eggs. The chicken can lay eggs by itself.

An egg cannot turn itself into a chicken. It is necessary that the egg has been interfened by a rooster beforehand.

The fact that the egg hatching from the chicken is not conditional, but the fact that other things are required for the chicken to hatch from the egg actually explains the issue.

Control

Even if we assume for a moment that the egg does exist and that it also has hereditary influences from the rooster: In this case, what will hatch will be either a chicken or a rooster. In either case, it will need another breed to reproduce.

This situation coincides with Noah's choice. In the beginning there was a chicken and a rooster.
They hate me cause they can't control me.

"The greatest sacrifice is not what you do for others, but what you give up to do for yourself."


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Lorddave

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2023, 01:07:26 AM »
Clearly chicken is the definitive answer.

If you were God, which would you create? Is it an egg that's unclear what's inside, or a chicken that anyone who sees it will know what it is? This applies not only to chickens, but also to other egg-laying bird species, some fish species, and even crocodiles.

As evidence, it is written that Noah took two of each type of animal aboard his ark, but there is no evidence that he took eggs into the ark. In this case, assuming that all animals perished and only Noah's ark remained, it is seen that the chicken existed and the egg was formed later.

Let's take the matter a little more scientifically:

It is enough for a chicken even to be alone to lay eggs. The chicken can lay eggs by itself.

An egg cannot turn itself into a chicken. It is necessary that the egg has been interfened by a rooster beforehand.

The fact that the egg hatching from the chicken is not conditional, but the fact that other things are required for the chicken to hatch from the egg actually explains the issue.

Control

Even if we assume for a moment that the egg does exist and that it also has hereditary influences from the rooster: In this case, what will hatch will be either a chicken or a rooster. In either case, it will need another breed to reproduce.

This situation coincides with Noah's choice. In the beginning there was a chicken and a rooster.

If you want to invoke God, technically both the egg and chicken were poofed into existence at the same time.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2023, 02:34:57 AM »


The proposition that the egg was the progenitor hits one very large speedbump, that being no chicken available to incubate it and provide protection and life skills to the chick when hatched.
This leads to the obvious conclusion that there must have been an Adam & Eve chicken event originated by a chicken deity, the great Cluck, into the coop of Eden.

Bulimia, I didnít read all your rammel as I think you are a mental case, but there were dinosaur bones before Darwin, itís where the dragon and giant myths came from.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Re: What comes first?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2023, 04:52:18 AM »
The word "dinosaur" was coined in 1841.  Origin of Species was released in 1859. 

I also don't think bulmabriefs144 knows what a fossil is.
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

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The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2023, 06:30:39 AM »

Indeed, Mary Anning for whom it is said the tongue twister ďshe sells seashells on the seashore.Ē References found the first complete Plesiosaur in 1823 on the Jurassic coast at Lyme Regis.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2023, 07:16:22 PM »
The proposition that the egg was the progenitor hits one very large speedbump, that being no chicken available to incubate it and provide protection and life skills to the chick when hatched.
Who said that the egg in question was a chicken egg? ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2023, 12:35:55 AM »
The proposition that the egg was the progenitor hits one very large speedbump, that being no chicken available to incubate it and provide protection and life skills to the chick when hatched.
Who said that the egg in question was a chicken egg? ???

The egg came first.  Chickens evolved much later.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2023, 03:47:26 PM »
The proposition that the egg was the progenitor hits one very large speedbump, that being no chicken available to incubate it and provide protection and life skills to the chick when hatched.
Who said that the egg in question was a chicken egg? ???

The egg came first.  Chickens evolved much later.
Sorry, but that doesn't answer my question.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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wise

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2023, 09:23:13 AM »
The proposition that the egg was the progenitor hits one very large speedbump, that being no chicken available to incubate it and provide protection and life skills to the chick when hatched.
Who said that the egg in question was a chicken egg? ???

The egg came first.  Chickens evolved much later.
Sorry, but that doesn't answer my question.
Guess this helps.

what came first the chicken or the egg?
They hate me cause they can't control me.

"The greatest sacrifice is not what you do for others, but what you give up to do for yourself."


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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2023, 03:02:29 PM »
Again, where does the question in the OP specify a that the egg in question is a chicken egg? ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2023, 01:37:43 AM »

On the mundane level, what the OP generator asked suggests by inclusion, an involvement betwixt the two components.

If at a deeper level, you are asking what came first. the chicken the egg or the chicken-egg conundrum? Then I would hazard that although there is debate about the first two, the conundrum must be last as the nonexistence of either of the other two negates there being an enigma to solve.

However, if your proposed problem is with the egg generating a chicken (or visa versa) and not some dissimilar or older more ancient oviparous organism, then I should imagine as most philosophical thinking is done over breakfast, the egg that sparked the issue has a higher than average chance of being that of Gallus gallus than other poultry or indeed that of any other bird, fish, monotreme, amphibian, lizard or dinosaur, and further more and notwithstanding, the chicken is but an exemplar for all the above and their inclusion in both the mystery and the conclusion to it, (if ever reached) is implicit.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2023, 06:08:51 PM »
If you want to know whether the chicken or chicken egg came first, then the answer depends on what you call the egg that hatched the first chicken.  Assuming that you believe in evolution, what we call chickens evolved from what we might call a proto-chicken.  At some point in time, a proto-chicken laid an egg that would hatch the first chickens.  The answer depends on whether you would consider that egg to the the last proto-chicken egg or the first chicken egg.  Personally, I would call it a chicken egg because it contains what would become a chicken, just not necessarily laid by a chicken.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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wise

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2023, 09:23:48 PM »
If you want to know whether the chicken or chicken egg came first, then the answer depends on what you call the egg that hatched the first chicken.  Assuming that you believe in evolution, what we call chickens evolved from what we might call a proto-chicken.  At some point in time, a proto-chicken laid an egg that would hatch the first chickens.  The answer depends on whether you would consider that egg to the the last proto-chicken egg or the first chicken egg.  Personally, I would call it a chicken egg because it contains what would become a chicken, just not necessarily laid by a chicken.
Try again with assuming we are not believe in evolution.
They hate me cause they can't control me.

"The greatest sacrifice is not what you do for others, but what you give up to do for yourself."


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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2023, 03:44:28 AM »

No Wise, itís not good to encourage people in their delusions.

Markjo! Thatís not how evolution works really, suddenly being a chicken.
Look at the example of Ensatina Salamanders that show a classic ring speciation around the central valley in California, the valley itself is inimical to the Salamanders breeding there, so as they spread south populations went either side slowly breeding, evolving, and migrating over millions of years.

All the intermediate species can cross breed with their neighbours, but the species that meet at the southern end do not interbreed, all Ensatinaís but showing different morphologies and breeding strategies, such that they are likely to remain different enough to remain separate species from this point onwards.   
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2023, 06:43:32 PM »
If you want to know whether the chicken or chicken egg came first, then the answer depends on what you call the egg that hatched the first chicken.  Assuming that you believe in evolution, what we call chickens evolved from what we might call a proto-chicken.  At some point in time, a proto-chicken laid an egg that would hatch the first chickens.  The answer depends on whether you would consider that egg to the the last proto-chicken egg or the first chicken egg.  Personally, I would call it a chicken egg because it contains what would become a chicken, just not necessarily laid by a chicken.
Try again with assuming we are not believe in evolution.
If you must insist that creation is the literal truth, then God most likely created the chicken first.  However, what makes you think that God is not powerful or clever enough to create a universe that can expand or critters that can evolve?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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markjo

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Re: What comes first?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2023, 06:52:32 PM »
Markjo! That’s not how evolution works really, suddenly being a chicken.
Well, in a way, it kinda is.  Breed a horse with a donkey and the result is a mule.  If it were possible to breed a hawk with a pigeon, you would get an egg that contains something else.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.