Sea and air pressure

The something else causing your body to be pushed down is your body itself by the displacement of the atmosphere it is in at any point.

So is it your body pushing itself down?
Or are you saying your body displaces the atmosphere and that the atmosphere in turn pushes your body down?

If the former, HOW?
If the latter, then it isn't the air assisting, it is just the air pushing down.

How can it take so long for you to grasp this?

How can it take so long for you to say something which actually makes sense and stop contradicting yourself?

Like yet again you still didn't explain WHY DOWN?
Once more, can you actually explain why things fall down? This includes things in mid-air and on the ceiling or on a wall.

Ok, first of all you need to understand about atmospheric displacement by dense mass.
I know you think you do but in this case...(my denpressure) you miss major points and it's setting you back.
Do you agree the fat person displacees more atmosphere than the skinny person? I'm sure you'll answer, yes.

Most people would answer yes that a large wooden board displaces more atmosphere than a small block of steel, yet that small block of steel weighs more. And even you agree that in the proper orientation the large board displaces more air when moving as seen by the air resistance when falling.

Most people also agree that a helium filled balloon displaces more air than a steel ball bearing.
In fact they typically agree that a helium filled balloon displaces a greater mass of air than the helium filled balloon's mass, and this is what causes it to float in accordance with all known laws of physics, where displacing a fluid with a pressure gradient in that fluid causes an upwards force based upon that pressure gradient and volume displaced.

And by me assuming you do agree to that, you can also understand how the fat person's displacement of air inside that box will be much more than the skinny person, so his movement on that see saw will create a pressure difference wherever he moves...always by his own dense body mass of displacement of that air.
This means the pressure he displacees is all back onto hm, meaning the skinny person will not only feel the displacement of the longer part of the see saw plank but will do so with the fat person's dense mass displacement of air, added to that point.

This "displacement" is horizontal, not vertical. It should have no affect on tipping the scale.
And as above, we could replace the skinny guy with a large steel weight and the fat guy with a large board. Then if it was due to this motion of air, pushing the board should tilt the see-saw, but it doesn't, because the steel weight weighs more.

But that still doesn't even attempt to explain how that magically gets out of the box to cause the air above the box to push one side of the box down.

The fact that the bottom of the stack is very dense and in greater numbers of circles, you can see how they will create massive resistance to anything falling through, meaning a coin and a feather would react massively different upon encountering this resistance. The coin being much more dense and being able to displace  much more of the atmosphere and so, a bigger push against resistance, whereas the feather does not have that same dense mass to push through.

Again, this makes absolutely no sense in your model.
If the air is what is pushing them down, then they should be similarly affected by it for both weight and air resistance.
That means a dense object like a coin should have a smaller weight than the feather.
This also means that the smaller weight on the coin will be comparable to the smaller resistance on the coin and it should be affected just like the feather.
Even going to a large steel ball, the same should happen.

Remember, you claim the air is pushing it down.
Why does the air magically push things down with a force dependent upon their mass, but then only manages to resist motion with a force based upon the area?

It is just one of many experiments which show air pressure is not the cause of weight.

And there should be no massive change like that in a vacuum if the air is the cause of weight.
In a vacuum the air resistance would decrease, but that should decrease both the slowing effect of the air and the pushing down affect of the air.

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 11, 2020, 05:46:55 AM

Lets pretend its in a sealed square cube that doesnt know up from down.
Turn it side ways.
How do the bubbles know to go down?
Which wya is down?
Why not side ways?
Why not up?

Because, like I said before. For every action there is an equal and opposite, reaction, whether internally or externally.
One always affects the other, no matter what.

Nothing in that post explained why it goes down.
Why does your air stack like that in the first place?
Are you just trying to appeal to the pressure gradient in the atmosphere caused by that stack?
Because that is the very thing you need to explain?
What is the action-reaction pair here to cause the atmosphere to stack like this?
Why does it stack with more dense stuff on the bottom rather than the top or the right?

And if that is what causes the stacking inside the container, then why does a sideways pressure gradient on a container not cause it to stack sideways? Why do things inside this container still fall down?
Why does an inverse pressure gradient, where you apply a higher pressure above, not cause the objects inside to fall up?

Anything displaced is transferred back onto the box, just like you jumping into a pool. You would displace the water you are in and that water would rise and channel that pressure right back onto you.

Yes, it would push back onto us, pushing us from all around, including from below. In fact, the force from below is greater than the force from above, allowing us to float.

The only way anything can fall is if there's a pressure to do that, no matter what that pressure is.

That is just your baseless claim, which you are yet to support.
If it was based upon pressure we would expect the rate at which things fall to depend upon pressure such that the greater the pressure the faster they fall.
But that isn't observed.
Instead we see air pressure interfere with falling, such as a feather that can fall quite quickly in a vacuum, but it almost floats in air.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 12:24:09 AM

Quote from: Stash on October 12, 2020, 12:01:13 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic

Ok, first of all you need to understand about atmospheric displacement by dense mass.
I know you think you do but in this case...(my denpressure) you miss major points and it's setting you back.

Do you agree the fat person displacees more atmosphere than the skinny person? I'm sure you'll answer, yes.

And by me assuming you do agree to that, you can also understand how the fat person's displacement of air inside that box will be much more than the skinny person, so his movement on that see saw will create a pressure difference wherever he moves...always by his own dense body mass of displacement of that air.
This means the pressure he displacees is all back onto hm, meaning the skinny person will not only feel the displacement of the longer part of the see saw plank but will do so with the fat person's dense mass displacement of air, added to that point.

It stands to reason that the fat guy is going to push against more of the air than the skinny guy who will displace
less...or push against less...whichever way you want to see it.

I'm following and yes, the fat guy displaces more than the skinny guy. But, that displacement doesn't necessarily mean a 'down' pressure. It just means the fat guy takes up more space and moves around the more of the internal atmosphere in the box than the skinny guy. Why does the fat guy lower and the skinny raise?

You need to get your head around the stacking system. It is present in all cases.

Doesn't answer "down" regardless of your diagram or what you say - The fat guy is moving horizontally, displacing atmosphere in the box as he moves. There's not enough of even an atmospheric stack inside the box to impart anything let alone to choose 'down' on his head.

The box itself is acting as the buffer for the compressive force his dense mass is pushing into.




 

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 12:24:09 AM

Quote from: Stash

As well, you didn't answer the other question, how does the outside stack have any influence on what's happening inside the sealed box? Or maybe it doesn't. But I thought you've contended that is does and I don't see how.

The box is in the atmosphere. It is under the stacking system and using the denser atmospheric mass or the actual ground (in this case) as its foundation, meaning it always sits immersed in the stack, whether the stack is the box's own displacement of atmosphere by its own dense mass (thickness).

So, basically you can accept that the box sits on the ground at the bottom of the stack of atmosphere.
It has displaced that atmosphere in the stack by (like I said) the thickness of its walls, minus the porosity and the actual volume inside, not to mention the dense mass already in it wth the people and see saw.

Anything displaced is transferred back onto the box, just like you jumping into a pool. You would displace the water you are in and that water would rise and channel that pressure right back onto you.

Same with atmosphere.

This creates a pressure on the box in different places due to it being immersed in the stack. Can you see this?

No, that makes no sense. Anything displaced by the box is transferred back into the box? They are sealed in the box. There's no way for the outside atmosphere that is displaced by the presence of the box to somehow how get into the box and do something. How does the outside atmosphere know to do anything to the inside contents of the box? It's an impossibility.

No it's not.
You understand how a compressed gas cylinder can expand or contract depending on temperature, which is simply a change in pressures.
This happens from outside in and inside out.
All in unison. Action and equal and opposite, reaction.
It's no different to a balloon or a football or a car tyre or even a train wheel iron tyre.
They all expand and contract.
The box will, also and that changes everything that happens in movement within it. It's transferred pressure due to energy applied.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 12:24:09 AM

Quote from: Stash

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 11, 2020, 11:45:46 PM

Quote from: Stash

Bonus question. The Action Lab guy posted a new vacuum experiment. Feather versus a coin. He shows how they both fall at the same rate in a near vacuum. How does dp account for this?

Skip to 1:45 to see the experiment:

If you take a look at my simple and crude air stacking diagram you will see the circles (atmosphere) become bigger. This would be representative of the so called vacuum (low pressure).

The fact that the bottom of the stack is very dense and in greater numbers of circles, you can see how they will create massive resistance to anything falling through, meaning a coin and a feather would react massively different upon encountering this resistance. The coin being much more dense and being able to displace  much more of the atmosphere and so, a bigger push against resistance, whereas the feather does not have that same dense mass to push through.


However....we get to your so called vacuum (low pressure)......the larger circles are all that's in that chamber and there is not the same dense mass of atmosphere (air) in that heavily evacuated chamber.

This means the coin will still fall fast but the feather will also encounter massive change in resistance to its own dense mass....meaning, it will much more easily push through it due to the weak resistance of the more expanded matter (atmosphere) under it.

I was careful to say 'near vacuum'.
The question is, how do the feather and the coin fall at the same rate in the near vacuum. They both drop like stones. Yet one is far more dense than the other and displaces far more atmosphere than the other. I thought displacement was a force that somehow drives things down. As in the seesaw box experiment.

The only way anything can fall is if there's a pressure to do that, no matter what that pressure is.

In terms of the coin, it displaces the atmosphere it is put in, whether it's flat to the floor up up on it's edge...or up in the air and released.
The coin will always sit within the stack of where it is placed.
Keep looking the the crude picture to see what I'm saying.

As long that the coin has pressure above, no matter how small, it can be pushed against and the rate of fall is dependent on how much below resistance to it, there is.

The feather is the same and both will appear to fall at the same time over a short distance in a low pressure environment but over a larger distance you would see the coin advance much quicker.

Why would you see the coin advance quicker over a larger distance? And what evidence do you have that that would be the case? And specifically, when would that occur? Is there a calculation for when the coin would overtake the feather in a near vacuum?

We don't see what you describe here and it's 37 meters high in a near vacuum environment - How much higher do we have to go:



That's a pretty mighty claim and requires some pretty mighty evidence. So lay it on me.

I don't believe that video for starters so it means nothing.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 11, 2020, 11:11:54 PM

The something else causing your body to be pushed down is your body itself by the displacement of the atmosphere it is in at any point.

So is it your body pushing itself down?
Or are you saying your body displaces the atmosphere and that the atmosphere in turn pushes your body down?

Answer this question. It may help you but I severely doubt it.

If I was to place you inside a box then fill it with water and then freeze the water and take you out of that frozen water......would you see the shape of yourself in that void of water?

If you agree that you would, then you can also understand your body is also doing that in atmosphere. It's displacing it.

That atmosphere you displace, has to go somewhere, just like water in a pool has to go somewhere. It rises a little and depending on that pool, you will either see it or it'll appear minimal.
What isn't minimal is the force acting back against you, which is the very force you displace.

The same happens with atmosphere. You add to the stack and are engulfed by your own displaced atmosphere.

This is why window clamps work. They work by the amount of displacement they can push against the atmosphere from losing it's own volume and having that push right back onto the clamp.

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

You understand how a compressed gas cylinder can expand or contract depending on temperature, which is simply a change in pressures.
This happens from outside in and inside out.
All in unison. Action and equal and opposite, reaction.
It's no different to a balloon or a football or a car tyre or even a train wheel iron tyre.

As repeatedly pointed out, it is vastly different.
Those examples are were the overall pressure of the container changes.
But in the case we are dealing with, it is an insignificant pressure gradient inside the box, which as has already been established, is horizontal and thus provides no basis for why it should push it down, and would not be based upon mass but instead area, and thus does not explain the mass based phenomenon of the see-saw.

I don't believe that video for starters so it means nothing.

Of course you don't as it shows you are wrong.
That does mean something, you happily reject reality when it shows you are wrong.

Quote from: JackBlack on October 12, 2020, 12:58:44 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 11, 2020, 11:11:54 PM

The something else causing your body to be pushed down is your body itself by the displacement of the atmosphere it is in at any point.

So is it your body pushing itself down?
Or are you saying your body displaces the atmosphere and that the atmosphere in turn pushes your body down?

Answer this question. It may help you but I severely doubt it.
If I was to place you inside a box then fill it with water and then freeze the water and take you out of that frozen water......would you see the shape of yourself in that void of water?

Good thing you doubt it, as it in no addresses my question.
It might help you to pretend you are addressing things and explaining things, but you are not. You are just repeatedly deflecting from issues.

I fully accept that any object which is immersed in a fluid will displace that fluid.
That does not explain why that fluid pushes you down.

Now once more, is it the body itself pushing itself down (or being acted upon by some force other than the air to cause it go down); or is it your body is displacing air such that the air pushes back on the body to push it down?
If the former, that means it isn't the air pushing the body down and thus your denspressure claims are all wrong, and you now need to explain either how and why your body pushes itself down, or what this other force is that is making your body go down (is it gravity?)
If the latter, then it isn't your body pushing down with some assistance from the air, it is the air pushing your body down (where you still have the issue of WHY DOWN)

If you agree that you would, then you can also understand your body is also doing that in atmosphere. It's displacing it.

What isn't minimal is the force acting back against you, which is the very force you displace.

You mean that force acting to push me up, which is minimal in air due to the low mass of air displaced, but is significant in water due to the much larger mass of water displaced?
That force being so significant in water that I can float in water?

This is why window clamps work. They work by the amount of displacement they can push against the atmosphere from losing it's own volume and having that push right back onto the clamp.

No, they don't.
It has nothing to do with displacement.
Instead it is entirely to do with pressure and area.
You can even try this with syringes of different size (ensuring you cut the tip of first), by pushing the air out, sealing the end and seeing how much force it can withstand.
All three parts can be done together by attaching a weight to the plunger and expelling the air with it pressed against a rubber support on the ceiling.
A long, thin syringe will withstand less force than a short wide syringe, even though the long thin syringe displaces more air.

You can even try it with a single syringe (or a setup connecting 2).
The plunger of the syringe can withstand a lot more force than the tiny tip of the syringe, even though the same volume of air is displaced.



And of course, you still don't provide an explanation of why things fall.
Whenever it gets to hard you seem to just deflect and ignore the vast majority of the issues with your nonsense.

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

My diagram should explain that.
How come you can't understand that?

I fully accept that any object which is immersed in a fluid will displace that fluid.
That does not explain why that fluid pushes you down.

The fluid doesn't just push you down, it crushes you down, aided by the atmosphere, as long as you allow your volume to be crushed/pushed out...which is key.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 08:01:50 AM

This is why window clamps work. They work by the amount of displacement they can push against the atmosphere from losing it's own volume and having that push right back onto the clamp.

No, they don't.
It has nothing to do with displacement.

It has everything to do with displacement. In the case of the clamp, the clamp itself in terms of it's own dense mass, is already displacing that dense mass of atmosphere and in this state all it can do is to be pushed/crushed to the deck. It cannot do anything to a wall or ceiling.

Only when you displace the air inside of the cup can you add that volume to the atmosphere which crushes/pushes right back onto the clamp, enabling you to clamp to windows, walls or ceilings, or even harder to a deck, as long as it can seal.

Quote from: JackBlack on October 12, 2020, 02:32:55 PM

I fully accept that any object which is immersed in a fluid will displace that fluid.
That does not explain why that fluid pushes you down.

The fluid doesn't just push you down, it crushes you down, aided by the atmosphere, as long as you allow your volume to be crushed/pushed out...which is key.

You are right that it doesn't push us down. It pushes from all directions, with a force that is slightly greater from below, pushing us upwards, resulting in a net upwards force.
The exact opposite of what your model requires.

And again, you completely avoid the issue.
Once more, is your body pushing itself down; is it displacing the air/fluid causing that fluid to push it down; or is there some other force acting on it to bring it down?

Why can't you just honestly and rationally address a simple issue?
Why do you need to continually deflect away from such a simple question?
Is it because you know answering it will destroy your model?

Quote from: JackBlack

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 08:01:50 AM

This is why window clamps work. They work by the amount of displacement they can push against the atmosphere from losing it's own volume and having that push right back onto the clamp.

No, they don't.
It has nothing to do with displacement.
Instead it is entirely to do with pressure and area.
You can even try this with syringes of different size (ensuring you cut the tip of first), by pushing the air out, sealing the end and seeing how much force it can withstand.
All three parts can be done together by attaching a weight to the plunger and expelling the air with it pressed against a rubber support on the ceiling.
A long, thin syringe will withstand less force than a short wide syringe, even though the long thin syringe displaces more air.

You can even try it with a single syringe (or a setup connecting 2).
The plunger of the syringe can withstand a lot more force than the tiny tip of the syringe, even though the same volume of air is displaced.

It has everything to do with displacement.

Already explained how it doesn't, providing simple examples you can test yourself.
If you wish to claim it does you need to deal with these examples rather than just spouting more nonsense.
You need to address why for a simple syringe the force is dependent upon the cross sectional area rather than the air displaced, and the same region of lower pressure can have a different force acting on the sides based upon this different area.

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 12, 2020, 10:44:45 AM

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

My diagram should explain that.
How come you can't understand that?

No it doesn't.
It provides no explanation at all.
Instead you just draw it as doing so.
You provide no explanation at all for WHY it does so.
Why does it stack from the bottom to the top?
Why doesn't it stack from top to bottom; or left to right?

A diagram just showing a stack with no explanation doesn't explain anything. How come you can't understand that?

And of course, you still don't provide an explanation of why things fall.

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 12, 2020, 10:44:45 AM

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

My diagram should explain that.
How come you can't understand that?

Because it doesnt

There is no mechanism to cause air to become less dense the higher you go.

What property of air makes allows it to be more squished at bottom?

Quote from: Stash on October 12, 2020, 12:56:33 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 12:24:09 AM

Quote from: Stash on October 12, 2020, 12:01:13 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic

Ok, first of all you need to understand about atmospheric displacement by dense mass.
I know you think you do but in this case...(my denpressure) you miss major points and it's setting you back.

Do you agree the fat person displacees more atmosphere than the skinny person? I'm sure you'll answer, yes.

And by me assuming you do agree to that, you can also understand how the fat person's displacement of air inside that box will be much more than the skinny person, so his movement on that see saw will create a pressure difference wherever he moves...always by his own dense body mass of displacement of that air.
This means the pressure he displacees is all back onto hm, meaning the skinny person will not only feel the displacement of the longer part of the see saw plank but will do so with the fat person's dense mass displacement of air, added to that point.

It stands to reason that the fat guy is going to push against more of the air than the skinny guy who will displace
less...or push against less...whichever way you want to see it.

I'm following and yes, the fat guy displaces more than the skinny guy. But, that displacement doesn't necessarily mean a 'down' pressure. It just means the fat guy takes up more space and moves around the more of the internal atmosphere in the box than the skinny guy. Why does the fat guy lower and the skinny raise?

You need to get your head around the stacking system. It is present in all cases.

Doesn't answer "down" regardless of your diagram or what you say - The fat guy is moving horizontally, displacing atmosphere in the box as he moves. There's not enough of even an atmospheric stack inside the box to impart anything let alone to choose 'down' on his head.

The box itself is acting as the buffer for the compressive force his dense mass is pushing into.

I think the box is just a box. His dense mass is inside the box and box contains regular old atmosphere. I get where you are coming from with the 'compressive' bit, but it's just not compressive enough to have any relevance.

Quote from: Stash

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 12:24:09 AM

Quote from: Stash

As well, you didn't answer the other question, how does the outside stack have any influence on what's happening inside the sealed box? Or maybe it doesn't. But I thought you've contended that is does and I don't see how.

The box is in the atmosphere. It is under the stacking system and using the denser atmospheric mass or the actual ground (in this case) as its foundation, meaning it always sits immersed in the stack, whether the stack is the box's own displacement of atmosphere by its own dense mass (thickness).

So, basically you can accept that the box sits on the ground at the bottom of the stack of atmosphere.
It has displaced that atmosphere in the stack by (like I said) the thickness of its walls, minus the porosity and the actual volume inside, not to mention the dense mass already in it wth the people and see saw.

Anything displaced is transferred back onto the box, just like you jumping into a pool. You would displace the water you are in and that water would rise and channel that pressure right back onto you.

Same with atmosphere.

This creates a pressure on the box in different places due to it being immersed in the stack. Can you see this?

No, that makes no sense. Anything displaced by the box is transferred back into the box? They are sealed in the box. There's no way for the outside atmosphere that is displaced by the presence of the box to somehow how get into the box and do something. How does the outside atmosphere know to do anything to the inside contents of the box? It's an impossibility.

No it's not.
You understand how a compressed gas cylinder can expand or contract depending on temperature, which is simply a change in pressures.
This happens from outside in and inside out.

There's no temperature change. Just 2 guys put in box with a seesaw, door closes, they are sealed inside. No immediate temp or pressure change.

All in unison. Action and equal and opposite, reaction.
It's no different to a balloon or a football or a car tyre or even a train wheel iron tyre.
They all expand and contract.
The box will, also and that changes everything that happens in movement within it. It's transferred pressure due to energy applied.

No, because the iron box is not pliable like a balloon membrane. It's iron. It's not going to expand in any significant or even measurable way as the fat guy moves around so as to impart some sort of affect from the outside atmosphere. Your iron train wheel is heated, a lot. Absolutely irrelevant to this scenario. There is no heat exchange, no pressure exchange and the iron box is not going to flex. It's like saying that the fat guy in the box could simply wave his hand from the the far right side and that would blow the skinny guys hair back 3 meters away on the left side. That just doesn't happen. Literally it's like saying I can make things flutter and move all about a room just by walking from one side to the other. Again, that's just doesn't happen. Even if I sealed up the room right after I walked inside it.

As long that the coin has pressure above, no matter how small, it can be pushed against and the rate of fall is dependent on how much below resistance to it, there is.

The feather is the same and both will appear to fall at the same time over a short distance in a low pressure environment but over a larger distance you would see the coin advance much quicker.

Why would you see the coin advance quicker over a larger distance? And what evidence do you have that that would be the case? And specifically, when would that occur? Is there a calculation for when the coin would overtake the feather in a near vacuum?

We don't see what you describe here and it's 37 meters high in a near vacuum environment - How much higher do we have to go:



That's a pretty mighty claim and requires some pretty mighty evidence. So lay it on me.

I don't believe that video for starters so it means nothing.

I know you don't, but you evaded the question. How much higher do we have to go for the coin to overtake the feather in the near vacuum?

You are right that it doesn't push us down. It pushes from all directions, with a force that is slightly greater from below, pushing us upwards, resulting in a net upwards force.
The exact opposite of what your model requires.

Crushing up or down is dependant on the dense mass up against the water/atmosphere.
One cancels out the other which is why we sink or float in water or atmosphere.
All you do is tie yourself up in knots and set yourself back.
If it's a ploy then carry on.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 11:01:40 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 12, 2020, 10:44:45 AM

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

My diagram should explain that.
How come you can't understand that?

Because it doesnt

There is no mechanism to cause air to become less dense the higher you go.

What property of air makes allows it to be more squished at bottom?

So that diagram does not show you how air is less dense the higher up that stack?
If so, then I can't help you.

I think the box is just a box. His dense mass is inside the box and box contains regular old atmosphere. I get where you are coming from with the 'compressive' bit, but it's just not compressive enough to have any relevance.

It would.

Quote from: sceptimatic

You understand how a compressed gas cylinder can expand or contract depending on temperature, which is simply a change in pressures.
This happens from outside in and inside out.

There's no temperature change. Just 2 guys put in box with a seesaw, door closes, they are sealed inside. No immediate temp or pressure change.

There's always temperature change. With every movement there is change. Matter/molecules are compressed creating friction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 07:50:54 AM

All in unison. Action and equal and opposite, reaction.
It's no different to a balloon or a football or a car tyre or even a train wheel iron tyre.
They all expand and contract.
The box will, also and that changes everything that happens in movement within it. It's transferred pressure due to energy applied.

No, because the iron box is not pliable like a balloon membrane. It's iron.

Not by sight it's not.

It's not going to expand in any significant or even measurable way as the fat guy moves around so as to impart some sort of affect from the outside atmosphere.

Your iron train wheel is heated, a lot. Absolutely irrelevant to this scenario.

If the person moves it creates action and equal and opposite reaction both inside and outside.
Inside is seen by eye whereas outside would not be visible to the naked eye.

And the iron tyre is massively relevant when you deny expansion and contraction and friction.

There is no heat exchange, no pressure exchange and the iron box is not going to flex.

Let me know if compressed air/gas cylinders have expansion and contraction. If you don't think so then you'll never understand what I'm getting at....ever.

It's like saying that the fat guy in the box could simply wave his hand from the the far right side and that would blow the skinny guys hair back 3 meters away on the left side.

t could with enough force. It's all about energy and dense mass.

That just doesn't happen. Literally it's like saying I can make things flutter and move all about a room just by walking from one side to the other. Again, that's just doesn't happen. Even if I sealed up the room right after I walked inside it.

You can if the force is enough from a dense mass against something much much less dense. You know this.

I know you don't, but you evaded the question. How much higher do we have to go for the coin to overtake the feather in the near vacuum?

I have no clue, I've never performed it in any vacuum. Have you?
Let me counter question.

If you drop an iron ball and a tennis ball from hip height, they will fall (by eye) at roughly the same time to the deck.
You and I both know, if this were to happen by dropping both from a very tall sky scraper, the iron ball would hit the ground first, because we both know below atmospheric pressure is going to create a resistance to those masses.

If you don't accept this then it's no wonder we're having issues.

I won't go any further on this until I see where you're at and then I can maybe carry on explaining the low pressure if I see you're grasping what I'm saying.

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 13, 2020, 04:05:49 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 11:01:40 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 12, 2020, 10:44:45 AM

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

My diagram should explain that.
How come you can't understand that?

Because it doesnt

There is no mechanism to cause air to become less dense the higher you go.

What property of air makes allows it to be more squished at bottom?

So that diagram does not show you how air is less dense the higher up that stack?
If so, then I can't help you.

The diagram shows air up high is less desne.
Doesnt show why.
And you dotn nor have ever explained why.

Quote from: Stash on October 13, 2020, 07:37:44 AM

I think the box is just a box. His dense mass is inside the box and box contains regular old atmosphere. I get where you are coming from with the 'compressive' bit, but it's just not compressive enough to have any relevance.

Quote from: Stash

Quote from: sceptimatic

You understand how a compressed gas cylinder can expand or contract depending on temperature, which is simply a change in pressures.
This happens from outside in and inside out.

There's no temperature change. Just 2 guys put in box with a seesaw, door closes, they are sealed inside. No immediate temp or pressure change.

There's always temperature change. With every movement there is change. Matter/molecules are compressed creating friction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 07:50:54 AM

All in unison. Action and equal and opposite, reaction.
It's no different to a balloon or a football or a car tyre or even a train wheel iron tyre.
They all expand and contract.
The box will, also and that changes everything that happens in movement within it. It's transferred pressure due to energy applied.

No, because the iron box is not pliable like a balloon membrane. It's iron.

Not by sight it's not.

Then by what measurement? If you claim the iron box expands and contracts as the guy moves around it, by how much? Enough to let the skinny guy raise up a couple of feet and the fat guy to go down a couple of feet? What are you using to measure it?

Quote from: Stash

It's not going to expand in any significant or even measurable way as the fat guy moves around so as to impart some sort of affect from the outside atmosphere.

Quote from: Stash

Your iron train wheel is heated, a lot. Absolutely irrelevant to this scenario.

If the person moves it creates action and equal and opposite reaction both inside and outside.
Inside is seen by eye whereas outside would not be visible to the naked eye.

If it's an equal and opposite reaction and the skinny guy raises up a couple of feet and the fat guy to goes down a couple of feet, then where is the equal action in and outside the iron box? Is the box contorting equally, a couple of feet either way to match the opposite reaction?
What do you mean inside is seen by the eye?

And the iron tyre is massively relevant when you deny expansion and contraction and friction.

How so? What friction? Fat guy is walking the plank to the other side. There's no friction, heat exchange - It has nothing to do with the iron tyre.

Quote from: Stash

There is no heat exchange, no pressure exchange and the iron box is not going to flex.

Let me know if compressed air/gas cylinders have expansion and contraction. If you don't think so then you'll never understand what I'm getting at....ever.

Compressed air/gas cylinders, again, irrelevant. It's just the two guys sealed up in a bloody box. There's no compression, no pressure. They just popped in the box, closed the door and the fat guy walks the plank.

Quote from: Stash

It's like saying that the fat guy in the box could simply wave his hand from the the far right side and that would blow the skinny guys hair back 3 meters away on the left side.

t could with enough force. It's all about energy and dense mass.

Quote from: Stash

That just doesn't happen. Literally it's like saying I can make things flutter and move all about a room just by walking from one side to the other. Again, that's just doesn't happen. Even if I sealed up the room right after I walked inside it.

You can if the force is enough from a dense mass against something much much less dense. You know this.

So when I board a plane and they close the door and pressurize the cabin, with a simple wave of my hand I can blow someone's hair back 10 rows away? And when I walk to the lavatory I'm displacing the atmosphere so that the cabin and airframe is expanding where I walk down the aisle?

Quote from: Stash on October 13, 2020, 07:40:56 AM

I know you don't, but you evaded the question. How much higher do we have to go for the coin to overtake the feather in the near vacuum?

I have no clue, I've never performed it in any vacuum. Have you?
Let me counter question.

If you drop an iron ball and a tennis ball from hip height, they will fall (by eye) at roughly the same time to the deck.
You and I both know, if this were to happen by dropping both from a very tall sky scraper, the iron ball would hit the ground first, because we both know below atmospheric pressure is going to create a resistance to those masses.

If you don't accept this then it's no wonder we're having issues.

I won't go any further on this until I see where you're at and then I can maybe carry on explaining the low pressure if I see you're grasping what I'm saying.

No, I have not performed the experiment. Other people have, quite a lot over the years. And so far, there's no evidence the coin would overtake the feather in a near vacuum. They can measure that shit you know? Do you only believe in things you have actually experimented with? If so, what are your dome and carbonite projecting sun experiments?

And we're talking very near vacuum, not standing on the roof of a skyscraper dropping iron and tennis balls.

Quote from: JackBlack on October 13, 2020, 02:24:23 AM

You are right that it doesn't push us down. It pushes from all directions, with a force that is slightly greater from below, pushing us upwards, resulting in a net upwards force.
The exact opposite of what your model requires.

Crushing up or down is dependant on the dense mass up against the water/atmosphere.

Which you are yet to provide any justification for, and is also completely false.

Like I demonstrated before (complete with a video showing it), all fluids with a pressure gradient in them (so any sitting on Earth), will exert an upwards force reducing the apparent weight of the object, even if the object still sinks in the fluid.

You have no basis at all for a fluid pushing down.

And yet again, you completely ignore what that statement was provided in reference to.
Once more, it was your claim:

Because your body's dense mass will push through the below atmospheric stack aided by the above atmospheric stack over you.

Here you are claiming it is your body pushing down all by itself, and just being assisted by the atmosphere.

Are you going to admit that in your model, the body doesn't push down itself and instead it is just the atmosphere pushing it down?
If not, are you going to tell us how the body pushes itself down (and thus you cannot appeal to it pushing off anything else, not even the atmosphere)?

All you do is tie yourself up in knots and set yourself back.

You mean all I do is repeated show your model to be baseless and self-contradictory; repeatedly exposing massive issues with your model and claims, issues you are unable to rationally address without admitting your model is garbage.

That is not setting me back. It just shows your model hasn't even left the starting gate.
You still have no explanation for why things fall, and have been unable to address any of the multitude of issues I have brought up.

In order to set myself back you would actually need to address these issues.
You would need to clearly state if you were wrong to say that the body pushes itself down, or tell me how it pushes itself down.
You would need to explain how the air pushes things down, including if that object is in mid air or against a wall or ceiling (and related to that why it is almost always down, even when in mid air, surrounded by air, or against a wall or ceiling; and then why in the cases when it doesn't push down, why it does so).

So that diagram does not show you how air is less dense the higher up that stack?
If so, then I can't help you.

It shows that it is, not HOW.
That is what is being asked of you.
We aren't asking you to just tell us that the air is more dense lower down.
We want to know why.

See, a big issue lots of FEers have with the globe is how the air is next to a vacuum, as air pressure (at least horizontally) is observed to balance out. If you have a container at one pressure, and another container at another pressure, and then connect them and open the valves, the pressure equalise.
You need something to stop that equalisation of pressure and keep a pressure gradient in place.
A RE has gravity pulling the air down.
But you just repeatedly assert some magical stacking.

So what causes your air to stack?
WHY is it more dense (and at a higher pressure) at the bottom?
Why doesn't that gradient get equalised?

There's always temperature change.

Regardless, that is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, as the see-saw doesn't just tip. Instead it relies upon the mass being moved.

In fact, it can even be shown that it doesn't help at all, and that your explanation is wrong, by placing a heating element on the end of the see-saw, and turning it on. That should produce a similar affect (pressure wise) as the person moving, yet the see-saw doesn't tip.

If the person moves it creates action and equal and opposite reaction both inside and outside.

Again, how does this get outside to cause the see-saw to tip?
Why is it based upon mass, when the air/pressure from this movement is based upon area and velocity?

You can if the force is enough from a dense mass against something much much less dense. You know this.

Except as clearly shown with the board example, it isn't he density of the mass that is important. Instead it is all about area.

You and I both know, if this were to happen by dropping both from a very tall sky scraper, the iron ball would hit the ground first, because we both know below atmospheric pressure is going to create a resistance to those masses.

With gravity, yes.
With your nonsense, no.
Air is the only thing pushing it down, and air is the only thing pushing it up.
Why should it different for the 2 objects?

Why is the force of the air pushing down magically related to mass, while the force pushing up is related to area?
Why aren't both related to mass or both related to area?
Once more, your model makes no sense.

Then by what measurement? If you claim the iron box expands and contracts as the guy moves around it, by how much? Enough to let the skinny guy raise up a couple of feet and the fat guy to go down a couple of feet? What are you using to measure it?

It depends on a how much force is applied.
It always takes energy to move atmosphere, just as it does to move water or anything else. You know this.

So let's use water as a simple analogy.
If that box is full of water (let's picture it being atmosphere) with the two people and see saw inside of it.
Now you can plainly understand the people and see saw are displacing the water....ie, they take the area of water they are placed in.

You can fully accept (I'm sure) that....if anyone moves in that environment, it will change the entire set up....meaning the fat person (for instance) will shift push away the water in whatever direction he moves....and that area he took up, originally, of water with his mass, is now refilled by the water he pushes away, meaning he not only creates a wave/slosh/pressure effect towards whatever is directly in front and to the sides in terms of pressure increase, he also deals with the fill behind to equalise that lower pressure decrease as he moves away from it, meaning he gets pushed back on by the rebound...if you like.

This will naturally tip the scales, so to speak.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

And the iron tyre is massively relevant when you deny expansion and contraction and friction.

How so? What friction? Fat guy is walking the plank to the other side. There's no friction, heat exchange - It has nothing to do with the iron tyre.

Friction is friction. The only difference is in the the amount of energy applied to create it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

Quote from: Stash

There is no heat exchange, no pressure exchange and the iron box is not going to flex.

Let me know if compressed air/gas cylinders have expansion and contraction. If you don't think so then you'll never understand what I'm getting at....ever.

Compressed air/gas cylinders, again, irrelevant. It's just the two guys sealed up in a bloody box. There's no compression, no pressure. They just popped in the box, closed the door and the fat guy walks the plank.

It's all relevant.
A balloon filled with pressure will expand. A hot water bottle with pressure, will expand. A oil drum, with pressure, will expand. Do I really need to go on?
You can rob the earth for only an instant. Basically an action that creates an equal and opposite reaction, at all times and instantly following.
What you take from the external to place internally, you have to create an equal reaction to fill that void. Expansion catwers for this. And vice versa with contraction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

Quote from: Stash

It's like saying that the fat guy in the box could simply wave his hand from the the far right side and that would blow the skinny guys hair back 3 meters away on the left side.

t could with enough force. It's all about energy and dense mass.

Quote from: Stash

That just doesn't happen. Literally it's like saying I can make things flutter and move all about a room just by walking from one side to the other. Again, that's just doesn't happen. Even if I sealed up the room right after I walked inside it.

You can if the force is enough from a dense mass against something much much less dense. You know this.

So when I board a plane and they close the door and pressurize the cabin, with a simple wave of my hand I can blow someone's hair back 10 rows away? And when I walk to the lavatory I'm displacing the atmosphere so that the cabin and airframe is expanding where I walk down the aisle?

No...but your hand wave will affect those closest yo you depending on the effort you put into it...which is key.
Would forcefully smashing two foot by fot boards together cause the people's hairs to ruffle 10 feet away?....very possibly...yes.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:30:13 PM

Quote from: Stash on October 13, 2020, 07:40:56 AM

I know you don't, but you evaded the question. How much higher do we have to go for the coin to overtake the feather in the near vacuum?

I have no clue, I've never performed it in any vacuum. Have you?
Let me counter question.

If you drop an iron ball and a tennis ball from hip height, they will fall (by eye) at roughly the same time to the deck.
You and I both know, if this were to happen by dropping both from a very tall sky scraper, the iron ball would hit the ground first, because we both know below atmospheric pressure is going to create a resistance to those masses.

If you don't accept this then it's no wonder we're having issues.

I won't go any further on this until I see where you're at and then I can maybe carry on explaining the low pressure if I see you're grasping what I'm saying.

No, I have not performed the experiment. Other people have, quite a lot over the years. And so far, there's no evidence the coin would overtake the feather in a near vacuum. They can measure that shit you know? Do you only believe in things you have actually experimented with? If so, what are your dome and carbonite projecting sun experiments?

And we're talking very near vacuum, not standing on the roof of a skyscraper dropping iron and tennis balls.

A near vacuum is not a vacuum.
It means it is lower pressure. It means there will always be resistance to dense mass.
It means that one dense mass of an object against much less dense mass of another will overcome below resistance to the drop than he less dense mass.

By all means argue it but you should really know in your honest mind that this will always be the case.
The big silly so called vacuum carrey on at NASA is all well and good of those who want to believe all that garbage.

Here's a question. It's a bit off track but it gives my point a bit of credit...to me, anyway.

Have you ever seen any experiments performed in that big facility to do with so called vacuums?
Space stuff as we're always saturated with?

Yet we are shown a bowling ball and feathers with a few struggling, rattling pipes and lots of open mouthed antics by the paid up players who appear like they've never seen anything like it.


Does none of this make you question stuff or do you simply accept it for ease?

Once more, your model makes no sense.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Quote from: JackBlack on October 14, 2020, 01:26:52 AM

Once more, your model makes no sense.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

No, it isn't just my opinion.
It is a fact, a fact backed up by your complete inability to rationally address any of the concerns raised, with instead repeatedly deflecting like so.

You are yet to explain so many things it isn't funny.
Things like:
Why does the air stack in the first place - what magic allows it to defy being acted upon by this pressure gradient to cancel out this "stacking"? It can't be whatever makes things fall in your model, as you claim that is the air.
Why does the air push objects down - not only when they are on the ground, but also when they are pressed against a ceiling or a wall, or in mid air? It can't be the fact that they have the ground to use as a foundation, with no air below and plenty above, because it is the exact opposite when they are pressed against the ceiling. It also can't be the pressure gradient in the atmosphere as that would push up.
How does the air push down a tower such that the pressure increases as you go down the tower, rather than being constant with the force all applied at the top?
If weight is based upon how much air is displaced, why does evacuating a container to displace much more air cause it to weight less?
If it is based upon how much air is displaced, why does it depend upon mass instead of volume?
Why isn't air resistance affected in the same way, such that a feather and steel ball always fall at the same rate? How come instead we have the force pushing it down (which you claim comes from the air) and the force pushing it up, which does come from the air, act in such an inconsistent manner?
Why does the air push a suction cup up?
Why is the force acting on a suction cup or the like based upon the area and pressure rather than the volume displaced?
Why do objects weigh less when immersed in a fluid, even if they sink in it? Why is the reduction in weight equal to the weight of the fluid displaced?
How does the air magically know the distribution of mass inside an object such that if it is heavier on the right and you balance it in the middle it tips to the right, so the right side is down?
If weight is based upon air, why isn't it dependent upon pressure, with weight increasing as pressure increases?
How come you can have a sealed chamber, and introduce a weight (or otherwise displace more air), with the pressure inside the chamber increasing, but not the weight of objects inside it?
If weight is based upon air, how does a barometer work?
Why isn't the reduction in pressure matched by a reduction in the force pushing the mercury down?
Why is a barometer directional?

There are so many things which show that your model makes no sense, and you have shown you are entirely unwilling to engage in any form of rational discussion on them. Instead you just want to preach and claim you have explained it all.

You can fully accept (I'm sure) that....if anyone moves in that environment, it will change the entire set up....meaning the fat person (for instance) will shift push away the water in whatever direction he moves....and that area he took up, originally, of water with his mass, is now refilled by the water he pushes away, meaning he not only creates a wave/slosh/pressure effect towards whatever is directly in front and to the sides in terms of pressure increase, he also deals with the fill behind to equalise that lower pressure decrease as he moves away from it, meaning he gets pushed back on by the rebound...if you like.

And notice a key thing missing?
Anything acting in the vertical, and any dependence upon mass.

This will naturally tip the scales, so to speak.

No, it wont.
You are yet to provide any explanation of how.
Yet again you make a massive logical leap with no explanation at all.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

And the iron tyre is massively relevant when you deny expansion and contraction and friction.

How so? What friction? Fat guy is walking the plank to the other side. There's no friction, heat exchange - It has nothing to do with the iron tyre.

Friction is friction. The only difference is in the the amount of energy applied to create it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

Quote from: Stash

There is no heat exchange, no pressure exchange and the iron box is not going to flex.

Let me know if compressed air/gas cylinders have expansion and contraction. If you don't think so then you'll never understand what I'm getting at....ever.

Compressed air/gas cylinders, again, irrelevant. It's just the two guys sealed up in a bloody box. There's no compression, no pressure. They just popped in the box, closed the door and the fat guy walks the plank.

It's all relevant.
A balloon filled with pressure will expand. A hot water bottle with pressure, will expand. A oil drum, with pressure, will expand. Do I really need to go on?
You can rob the earth for only an instant. Basically an action that creates an equal and opposite reaction, at all times and instantly following.
What you take from the external to place internally, you have to create an equal reaction to fill that void. Expansion catwers for this. And vice versa with contraction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

Quote from: Stash

It's like saying that the fat guy in the box could simply wave his hand from the the far right side and that would blow the skinny guys hair back 3 meters away on the left side.

t could with enough force. It's all about energy and dense mass.

Quote from: Stash

That just doesn't happen. Literally it's like saying I can make things flutter and move all about a room just by walking from one side to the other. Again, that's just doesn't happen. Even if I sealed up the room right after I walked inside it.

You can if the force is enough from a dense mass against something much much less dense. You know this.

So when I board a plane and they close the door and pressurize the cabin, with a simple wave of my hand I can blow someone's hair back 10 rows away? And when I walk to the lavatory I'm displacing the atmosphere so that the cabin and airframe is expanding where I walk down the aisle?

No...but your hand wave will affect those closest yo you depending on the effort you put into it...which is key.
Would forcefully smashing two foot by fot boards together cause the people's hairs to ruffle 10 feet away?....very possibly...yes.
[/quote]

Quote from: Stash

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 13, 2020, 11:21:18 PM

Quote from: Stash

It's like saying that the fat guy in the box could simply wave his hand from the the far right side and that would blow the skinny guys hair back 3 meters away on the left side.

t could with enough force. It's all about energy and dense mass.

Quote from: Stash

That just doesn't happen. Literally it's like saying I can make things flutter and move all about a room just by walking from one side to the other. Again, that's just doesn't happen. Even if I sealed up the room right after I walked inside it.

You can if the force is enough from a dense mass against something much much less dense. You know this.

So when I board a plane and they close the door and pressurize the cabin, with a simple wave of my hand I can blow someone's hair back 10 rows away? And when I walk to the lavatory I'm displacing the atmosphere so that the cabin and airframe is expanding where I walk down the aisle?

No...but your hand wave will affect those closest yo you depending on the effort you put into it...which is key.
Would forcefully smashing two foot by fot boards together cause the people's hairs to ruffle 10 feet away?....very possibly...yes.

So I get up from my seat in the middle of the cabin and start walking down the aisle to the lavatory at the back of the plane. You're saying that as I am doing so the cabin and fuselage are expanding around me as I make my way because of the atmosphere I displace?

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 13, 2020, 04:05:49 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2020, 11:01:40 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 12, 2020, 10:44:45 AM

Sealed box full of just air.
Why do they stack up-down?

My diagram should explain that.
How come you can't understand that?

Because it doesnt

There is no mechanism to cause air to become less dense the higher you go.

What property of air makes allows it to be more squished at bottom?

So that diagram does not show you how air is less dense the higher up that stack?
If so, then I can't help you.

The diagram shows air up high is less desne.
Doesnt show why.
And you dotn nor have ever explained why.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2020, 12:16:19 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on October 14, 2020, 01:26:52 AM

Once more, your model makes no sense.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

No, it isn't just my opinion.

Then it's whoever else's opinion and they are entitled to theirs.

So I get up from my seat in the middle of the cabin and start walking down the aisle to the lavatory at the back of the plane. You're saying that as I am doing so the cabin and fuselage are expanding around me as I make my way because of the atmosphere I displace?

In a minimal way...yes.
Most of your displacement would be cushioned as you compress, just like a trampoline will cushion your landing or a pillow will cushion your head...or a hover bed will cushion your body.....etc.
There has to be a reaction to everything.

If you start to think the fuselage puffs out as you walk then I can't help you.

The diagram shows air up high is less desne.
Doesnt show why.
And you dotn nor have ever explained why.

I explained why in so many ways which you absolutely refused to grasp...which is fine....but....don;t make out I haven't explained.

If you care to put your mind on it then understand the stacking of sponge balls as an analogy. It may not cover the whole thing but it will give you an insight of you put your mind to it.

If you stack one sponge ball onto another and then another and so on and so on, you will see the bottom sponge ball becomes compressed much more than the top one's.


Right?

If you don't think so then you need to explain why.

Quote from: JackBlack on October 15, 2020, 01:34:19 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2020, 12:16:19 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on October 14, 2020, 01:26:52 AM

Once more, your model makes no sense.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

No, it isn't just my opinion.

Then it's whoever else's opinion and they are entitled to theirs.

It isn't an opinion, it is a fact.
As already explained.

If you wish to disagree, then explain how things fall, then all the other issues, without contradicting yourself.
Or if you want to go to the more basic level, explain how the air stacks, i.e. what causes it.
Don't appeal to an analogy based upon gravity (or as you would claim the air pushing it down). Actually provide an explanation for what causes the air to stack in complete defiance of how it is known to operate (as you are taking away any force pushing it down as you claim it provides that force).

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 15, 2020, 02:20:35 AM

The diagram shows air up high is less desne.
Doesnt show why.
And you dotn nor have ever explained why.

I explained why in so many ways which you absolutely refused to grasp...which is fine....but....don;t make out I haven't explained.

Stop lying. You haven't explained it.
You have repeatedly asserted it.

If you stack one sponge ball onto another and then another and so on and so on, you will see the bottom sponge ball becomes compressed much more than the top one's.

Only due to gravity or whatever BS you wish to replace it with. But you want to replace with the air and how the air stacks. That means you cannot use it to explain why air stacks.

And again, THIS IS NOT AN EXPLANATION!
This is an observation.
Mainstream science can easily explain it due to gravity providing a downwards force which acts on the balls/air and is countered by an upwards force from the balls/air below due to them begin compressed.

Meanwhile, you have no explanation, you just have an observation you can't explain.

Mainstream science can easily explain it due to gravity providing a downwards force which acts on the balls/air and is countered by an upwards force from the balls/air below due to them begin compressed.

Clearly not.