Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.

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AlexandrKushnirtshuk

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  • Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk
Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« on: January 04, 2021, 11:39:40 AM »
1) First inconsistency.

It is comet NEOWISE on both STEREOs and SOHOs photos. Here is a link to the article with confirmation of this fact: The tale of a comet's tail. But how is it possible considering the SOHOs and STEREOs interposition (location in space) an their fields of view?





2) Second inconsistency.

Why there is no Moon near the Earth on the STEREOs photos? Considering that Mercury is clearly visible in the same photos, the Moon should be seen at least as a bright bulge on the side of the Earth. The Moon cannot completely merge with the Earth into one round point. Diameters for better representation of ratios: Mercury - 4.8; Moon - 3.5; Earth - 12.7.



How is it possible that there is a Moon near the Earth on MESSENGERs photos, but no Moon near the Earth on STEREOs photos?

Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk

Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 11:50:19 AM »
I don't really understand the question.
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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 12:02:26 PM »
How is it possible that there is a Moon near the Earth on MESSENGERs photos, but no Moon near the Earth on STEREOs photos?

The max resolution presented at the "Stereo Science Center" for HI2 on 6/29 is 1024x1024. The moon is about a pixel from Earth, at most.  That means it isn't in the picture because it's too close to distinguish the two at the resolution and clarity presented. Simple as that, no mystery required.

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AlexandrKushnirtshuk

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  • Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk
Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 12:12:17 PM »

The max resolution presented at the "Stereo Science Center" for HI2 on 6/29 is 1024x1024. The moon is about a pixel from Earth, at most.  That means it isn't in the picture because it's too close to distinguish the two at the resolution and clarity presented. Simple as that, no mystery required.
Mercury is almost the same size as the Moon. Mercury is visible in the same photo. Even if the Moon is at a distance of one pixel in that photo, it cannot merge with the Earth into one round point. The Moon also reflects light and should be visible at least as a bright bulge on the side of the Earth.
Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk

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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 01:03:12 PM »

The max resolution presented at the "Stereo Science Center" for HI2 on 6/29 is 1024x1024. The moon is about a pixel from Earth, at most.  That means it isn't in the picture because it's too close to distinguish the two at the resolution and clarity presented. Simple as that, no mystery required.
Mercury is almost the same size as the Moon. Mercury is visible in the same photo. Even if the Moon is at a distance of one pixel in that photo, it cannot merge with the Earth into one round point. The Moon also reflects light and should be visible at least as a bright bulge on the side of the Earth.


I think it's pretty hard to make all of those assumptions when there is so much noise in the image. Mercury is visible, I guess, because it's pointed out, but barely in all that noise. I mean sure, the Moon reflects light...when it is reflecting light in the correct direction. Also, I have no idea where the moon is supposed to be in that image. Left, right, top, bottom, in relation to Earth. In front, behind? I haven't a clue.

And overarchingly, who cares? I mean, what's the point you're trying to make? We can't tell where the tiny speck of the moon is in a single pixel, in a really cluttered, noisy, contrasty, dirty image, right smack up against the earth. If you're that concerned about it, contact NASA and ask them where the moon is supposed to be in the image. Otherwise, seems all pretty meaningless.

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JackBlack

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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 01:51:05 PM »
So you gave up on your previous threads as you couldn't justify your claims and have now run off to a new thread to try again with more wild claims?

1) First inconsistency.
It is comet NEOWISE on both STEREOs and SOHOs photos. Here is a link to the article with confirmation of this fact: The tale of a comet's tail. But how is it possible considering the SOHOs and STEREOs interposition (location in space) an their fields of view?
How about you try to draw a diagram showing their positions, too scale, and their relevant FOVs?
Because with the information you have provided, there is no way to know if there is a problem.

Also make sure you provide just how you identified the various objects seen. Especially the comets which you have simply labelled neowise. Are you sure it is the same comet, and the one in the STEREO image isn't another comet, such as 123P/West-Hartley or 15P/Finlay, and so on?
There are lots of comets out there, not just neowise.

Why there is no Moon near the Earth on the STEREOs photos?
Because it is too close to Earth.
The objects you see which you are identifying as the planets are not simply the planets, but the effect of the planet on what I assume is the solar wind.
The planets are not actually that size.

To get an idea of the scale don't appeal to the size of the various objects, look at the distance between them.
Mercury and Earth where roughly in alignment with the sun in the first image you provided, so that distance between them is roughly 100 000 000 km.
In the image you provided, that distance is roughly 200 px.
That means each pixel is roughly 500 000 km.
That means the Moon would be within 1 pixel of Earth.
So no, you wouldn't expect to see the moon as anything obvious.

Also remember that the moon orbits Earth and will not necessarily be beside Earth, instead it could appear in front of or behind.

How is it possible that there is a Moon near the Earth on MESSENGERs photos, but no Moon near the Earth on STEREOs photos?
Different FOVs, with different imaging techniques which show different things.

The Messenger photo was able to resolve both as small circles.
The STEREO photo was only able to resolve both as a much larger circle.

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AlexandrKushnirtshuk

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  • Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk
Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2021, 02:24:52 PM »
How about you try to draw a diagram showing their positions, too scale, and their relevant FOVs?
Because with the information you have provided, there is no way to know if there is a problem.


Also make sure you provide just how you identified the various objects seen. Especially the comets which you have simply labelled neowise. Are you sure it is the same comet, and the one in the STEREO image isn't another comet, such as 123P/West-Hartley or 15P/Finlay, and so on?
There are lots of comets out there, not just neowise.
Here is a link to the article with confirmation of the fact, that it is comet NEOWISE on both STEREOs and SOHOs photos.: The tale of a comet's tail.
Besides, this is evident by the coincidence of flight directions (up and to the right), as well as by the coincidence of dates (the comet flew out of the SOHOs field of view on June 27, and fell into the STEREOs field of view on June 28-29).
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 02:30:58 PM by AlexandrKushnirtshuk »
Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk

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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2021, 02:30:13 PM »
How about you try to draw a diagram showing their positions, too scale, and their relevant FOVs?
Because with the information you have provided, there is no way to know if there is a problem.


Also make sure you provide just how you identified the various objects seen. Especially the comets which you have simply labelled neowise. Are you sure it is the same comet, and the one in the STEREO image isn't another comet, such as 123P/West-Hartley or 15P/Finlay, and so on?
There are lots of comets out there, not just neowise.
Here is a link to the article with confirmation of the fact, that it is comet NEOWISE on both STEREOs and SOHOs photos.: The tale of a comet's tail.

Great, itís neowise. So what?

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AlexandrKushnirtshuk

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  • Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk
Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2021, 02:35:03 PM »
Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk

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JackBlack

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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2021, 02:53:50 PM »
How about you try to draw a diagram showing their positions, too scale, and their relevant FOVs?
Because with the information you have provided, there is no way to know if there is a problem.


I asked for a to scale diagram. It is quite clear that isn't to scale.
In addition the image you provided in your OP is quite clearly labelled STEREO AHEAD, but here you have tried to draw the FOV for STEREO behind.
And it also has their position wrong.

I want a to scale diagram showing where the craft and objects are and the FOV. Feel free to provide multiple images to account for the varying times

You are just collecting whatever images you can and sticking them together without any thought.

Here is a link to the article with confirmation of the fact, that it is comet NEOWISE on both STEREOs and SOHOs photos.: The tale of a comet's tail.
You mean which asserts it. It doesn't confirm a fact, it is just a random site on the internet saying it is that.

Besides, this is evident by the coincidence of flight directions (up and to the right), as well as by the coincidence of dates (the comet flew out of the SOHOs field of view on June 27, and fell into the STEREOs field of view on June 28-29).
The only way for that argument to hold is if it was entirely consistent without any contradiction.
i.e. the comet left one FOV and entered the other, as one would expect it to, and travelled in the direction one would expect it to.

So are you saying there is no inconsistency/contradiction?
If not, you are going to need more to show that it is Neowise.

And Neowise is not the only object there. Also explain how you identified each of the planets.
And while you are at it, indicate where the sun is.

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AlexandrKushnirtshuk

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  • Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk
Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2021, 04:00:21 PM »
Alexandr Kushnirtshuk (04.12.1984), Ukraine, Lutsk

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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2021, 04:28:04 PM »


Where's the moon in this image? It seems to have gone missing again.

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JackBlack

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Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2021, 04:53:29 PM »

And this still isn't what I have asked for and in no way helps support your case.
That doesn't even indicate what time this was meant to be for.

If you would like some help to start with I suggest going here:
https://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/make_where_gif

This will help determine where STEREO A was when it took the photo, and where the planets were, by getting an image like this (for the same time (to the minute) as that in the photo below):


But that doesn't show where the comet is, nor does it directly show the FOV.
But by comparing that to an image from STEREO A, with some assumptions about what is being shown you can help determine the FOV.
For example, by comparing it to this image from STEREO A:

And assuming the planets were as you said they were, you can determine that it does match fairly well (a few pixels off at most).
You do this by looking at the angular separation of the planets in the location image, and that should match the (scaled) horizontal separation in the STEREO A photo. You can even use a linear regression.

You can then use the location of the edges of the image to determine that the FOV and the location of the comet looks something like this:

The purple lines indicate the edge of the FOV, the orange line indicates the direction to the comet seen in the image.
Then you just need to put in the actual location of F3/Neowise, which you can get from one of the images you have already used (but that time isn't correct either). It is just outside the orbit of Mercury in the top right of the image I provided.

So if you identified the planets correctly, there is no reason to think that is NEOWISE, which is in a completely different direction.
A much better match would be C/2020P1 (NEOWISE), which is not to be confused with C/2020 F3 (NEOWISE) (the latter being the one near the sun), but that doesn't match up with the near alignment on the 9th of July.
A closer match for that would be 294P/LINEAR or 25D/Neujmin 2, but they aren't as far out.

But with all the different comets out there, there are so many options for what it could be and it would take quite some time to go through all the possibilities.

Re: Unexplainable inconsistencies in SOHOs and STEREOs photos.
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2021, 08:33:57 PM »


Why can't the moon in inconsistency 2, be hidden behind the Earth? The scale in these images is laughable. What does it matter, what these images from 10 years ago, show or don't show?