Sea and air pressure

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1260 on: December 31, 2020, 06:14:59 AM »
Energy applied to mass will push things up but mass in itself resists what is above it.
Again, what is there to resist?

Each molecular mass.

If you push one ball into another you feel the reaction of that ball as a resistance to your push.
If you were to push another ball into two balls, you feel the reaction of the ball you push into and the reaction of the ball that is also pushed into by the ball you originally pushed.

And so on.
A mass build up which requires more energy and resistance to the push.

It's not hard to grasp but you dare not grasp it because you know how easy it is to kill of the silly gravity nonsense.

Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1261 on: December 31, 2020, 06:33:22 AM »
Does it resist whats beside it?
Infront?
Behind?
Yes.
Everything is compressed from all points. Some molecules are compressed more than other at those points.
This has been told to you many times before and here you are right back to where I expected. Square one, like you have done on many many occasions.
Not a chance you can be doing this by misunderstanding. It has to be deliberate. I hope it is.

Ok
So then the same forces that push me down should also pushe left right.
Your "foundation" is the only differing item which youve shown no bearing to providing any diference than the dome other than it is what it is and down is down.

If i stood at a cavern wall and tried to run away i should be thrown back as if i was falling down.

Your model makes no distinction other than down is down because that is what is observed.

The scientific process is we observe something (things fall down), we make a hypothesis (air pushes people down), we test it for repeatability (airplanes, suction cups, my exmaple, vaccum sealed boxe) and find that your hypothesis does hold any predictability.
This fall down regardless of your model.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1262 on: December 31, 2020, 06:43:36 AM »
Does it resist whats beside it?
Infront?
Behind?
Yes.
Everything is compressed from all points. Some molecules are compressed more than other at those points.
This has been told to you many times before and here you are right back to where I expected. Square one, like you have done on many many occasions.
Not a chance you can be doing this by misunderstanding. It has to be deliberate. I hope it is.

Ok
So then the same forces that push me down should also pushe left right.
Yep.
I've already explained this so why do you keep asking it?




Quote from: Themightykabool

Your "foundation" is the only differing item which youve shown no bearing to providing any diference than the dome other than it is what it is and down is down.
Because you are not paying attention. You either don;t grasp it or refuse to.


Quote from: Themightykabool

If i stood at a cavern wall and tried to run away i should be thrown back as if i was falling down.
No you should not.
I tried to show you this by using a water analogy and you just went into a frenzy about how we don;t live in water, when you clearly knew I was explaining it to give you a visual mindset on it.
You create your own issues, whether deliberate or not.


Quote from: Themightykabool

Your model makes no distinction other than down is down because that is what is observed.
No. It's your inability to understand or want to understand.


Quote from: Themightykabool

The scientific process is we observe something (things fall down), we make a hypothesis (air pushes people down), we test it for repeatability (airplanes, suction cups, my exmaple, vaccum sealed boxe) and find that your hypothesis does hold any predictability.
This fall down regardless of your model.
They are pushed down by their own dense mass  and atmosphere above and around. A atmospheric collapse around the dense mass.


Just remember you need to overcome the pressure to get into that position in the first place...and maintain it to stay there.
To do this you must compress against what is below to stay above against less compression pushing back down.

Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1263 on: December 31, 2020, 09:17:31 AM »
I dont remeber going into a frenzy about water.
If you could find it ill apologize but
Actually quite the opposite that water is a great example that disproves denpressure - People float in water.
Not get pushed down.

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JackBlack

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1264 on: December 31, 2020, 12:34:18 PM »
Energy applied to mass will push things up but mass in itself resists what is above it.
Again, what is there to resist?
Each molecular mass.
If you push
You are yet to provide any push. Regardless, this only works if it is accelerating.
If I push against a wall, it resists based upon its material properties, not based upon mass.
It is only if I push against a car or the like which is then accelerated by my pushing it, that it resists based upon mass (as well as friction).
So in order for that to be relevant you need Earth accelerating upwards.
So are you now appealing to UA?

If not, yet again, mass is irrelevant.

The only way for mass to be relevant is if you have acceleration (and thus inertia), or if you have a force which acts on mass, proportional to mass.

It's not hard to grasp but you dare not grasp it because you know how easy it is to kill of the silly gravity nonsense.
You are partly right. It is extremely easy to grasp.
You need a force, other than the air, acting on each layer of air to create a pressure gradient. Without such a force, the pressure of the atmosphere is uniform. With such a force, you now have a force acting on all the air to move it down, and with nothing special about the air, this force can act on everything. And with you saying it is the same for water as for air, this means this force is proportional to mass.

This force is gravity. If you wish to disagree, tell us just what magical force exists in your model which pushes the air down to create a pressure gradient. Remember, mass is not a force, if you want to appeal to the mass, you need a force which acts on mass, refuting your model. And remember, if it was just the air above pushing down, then the pressure would be constant throughout the atmosphere.

Then once you have figured out what that force is, tell us why it doesn't act on everything to push it down.

And I certainly know just how "easy" it is to kill of the reality of gravity. Your need to continually dismiss it while being unable to show a single fault with it shows just how impossible it is.
Your need to implicitly appeal to it to try to explain a pressure gradient also shows just how impossible it is.
The fact that an honest, rational attempt to explain why there is a pressure gradient appeals to gravity shows just how impossible it is.

Does it resist whats beside it?
Infront?
Behind?
Yes.
Then that in no way helps you explain why things fall or why the atmosphere stacks vertically from bottom to top.

This has been told to you many times before and here you are right back to where I expected. Square one, like you have done on many many occasions.
Not a chance you can be doing this by misunderstanding. It has to be deliberate. I hope it is.
And there you go projecting again.
It isn't us going back to square 1, it is you and your broken model.

You tried to use mass pushing up to explain why the atmosphere is denser the further down you are.
But now you admit that it works in all directions, so you have no justification for the directionality in your model.

The problem isn't us. It is you and your model.

Ok
So then the same forces that push me down should also pushe left right.
Yep.
I've already explained this so why do you keep asking it?
Because it shows the fundamental problem for your model: YOU HAVE NO JUSTIFICATION FOR YOUR DIRECTIONALITY!

Because you are not paying attention. You either don;t grasp it or refuse to.
Or because your model is pure nonsense which makes no sense. Again the problem is you and your model, not us.

Quote from: Themightykabool

If i stood at a cavern wall and tried to run away i should be thrown back as if i was falling down.
No you should not.
If your nonsense was correct, you should.
You claim you are pushed down by the air because you push up into it.
If that was the case then as you push left into the air it would push you back to the right and you would fall to the right.

I tried to show you this by using a water analogy
Which doesn't help at all. Especially as it clearly shows the effect of buoyancy, where the water pushes you up, not down.

They are pushed down by their own dense mass  and atmosphere above and around.
Again, the atmosphere is also below, and based upon the fact that the pressure is greater the lower down you are, that means the air pushes up, not down.

If it is their own dense mass pushing them down, that is gravity. Even if you want to deny it is gravity, it is a force which would act on mass to move it down making your air useless.

Just remember you need to overcome the pressure to get into that position in the first place...and maintain it to stay there.
And as the pressure is higher the further down you go, that means if you don't maintain it, you will get pushed up, out of that pressure. So things would fall up.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1265 on: January 01, 2021, 04:15:49 AM »
I dont remeber going into a frenzy about water.
If you could find it ill apologize but
Actually quite the opposite that water is a great example that disproves denpressure - People float in water.
Not get pushed down.
If only you used it as an analogy and paid attention to it...seriously.....but....like I said before.....is it a game you're playing? A pretence of not knowing so you can start at the very beginning.
I really don't know for sure, at this point.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1266 on: January 01, 2021, 04:17:21 AM »

You are yet to provide any push.
I have.
Put your brain to work.

Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1267 on: January 01, 2021, 08:43:42 AM »
I dont remeber going into a frenzy about water.
If you could find it ill apologize but
Actually quite the opposite that water is a great example that disproves denpressure - People float in water.
Not get pushed down.
If only you used it as an analogy and paid attention to it...seriously.....but....like I said before.....is it a game you're playing? A pretence of not knowing so you can start at the very beginning.
I really don't know for sure, at this point.

So instead of addressing the point we have another dodge and deflect.
Nice
Is the point valid or not?

Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1268 on: January 01, 2021, 11:33:25 AM »
Quote
They are pushed down by their own dense mass

What do you mean by 'dense' mass.  Mass is mass, density is density.  Two separate and distinct physical properties.

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JackBlack

  • 22526
Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1269 on: January 01, 2021, 12:11:31 PM »

You are yet to provide any push.
I have.
Put your brain to work.
I have put my brain to work. That is how I so easily realise that you haven't provided a source for the push, and how I so easily show the problem with your claims each time you make them.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice and try putting your brain to work to try to solve the massive problems with your model rather than continually deflecting, such as explaining why there is a pressure gradient in the first place?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1270 on: January 02, 2021, 02:03:56 AM »
I dont remeber going into a frenzy about water.
If you could find it ill apologize but
Actually quite the opposite that water is a great example that disproves denpressure - People float in water.
Not get pushed down.
If only you used it as an analogy and paid attention to it...seriously.....but....like I said before.....is it a game you're playing? A pretence of not knowing so you can start at the very beginning.
I really don't know for sure, at this point.

So instead of addressing the point we have another dodge and deflect.
Nice
Is the point valid or not?
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1271 on: January 02, 2021, 02:04:48 AM »
Quote
They are pushed down by their own dense mass

What do you mean by 'dense' mass.  Mass is mass, density is density.  Two separate and distinct physical properties.
Does mass have density?
If so then use your brain.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1272 on: January 02, 2021, 02:06:26 AM »

I have put my brain to work. That is how I so easily realise that you haven't provided a source for the push, and how I so easily show the problem with your claims each time you make them.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice and try putting your brain to work to try to solve the massive problems with your model rather than continually deflecting, such as explaining why there is a pressure gradient in the first place?
I'm fine.

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JackBlack

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1273 on: January 02, 2021, 02:59:34 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Instead the pressure gradient in it pushes everything up.
Yes, moving through it takes some effort, but pushing up into it doesn't magically result in it pushing you down with a greater force.


I have put my brain to work. That is how I so easily realise that you haven't provided a source for the push, and how I so easily show the problem with your claims each time you make them.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice and try putting your brain to work to try to solve the massive problems with your model rather than continually deflecting, such as explaining why there is a pressure gradient in the first place?
I'm fine.
You're fine not using your brain?
You're fine believing pure nonsense?
You're fine not caring about the truth at all?

Otherwise, you are not fine. You are spouting pure nonsense which has been repeatedly refuted.
Unless you have figured out what magic causes your pressure gradient?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1274 on: January 02, 2021, 03:17:07 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
But I was using water as an analogy and you simply do not have the ability to understand that.
How about you tell me why fish have a swim bladder.


Quote from: JackBlack
Instead the pressure gradient in it pushes everything up.

What pressure gradient, in it?
Explain it.

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JackBlack

  • 22526
Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1275 on: January 02, 2021, 03:30:29 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
No, if you just look at it as water and completely ignore the atmosphere.

How about you tell me why fish have a swim bladder.
How about you tell me what magic causes your pressure gradient, as I have already explained buoyancy to you before, and this is just another pathetic deflection.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1276 on: January 02, 2021, 09:25:58 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
No, if you just look at it as water and completely ignore the atmosphere.


Which is the very reason you play your games. You clearly know what I'm saying but you know it gives food for thought for the genuine people.

Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1277 on: January 02, 2021, 09:58:31 AM »
Quote
Does mass have density?
If so then use your brain.

Silly me.  My back has started aching from all the times I have had to bow to your superior knowledge.  I wish you had been my physics teacher when I went to college.  So too no doubt do all the other RE believers who have clearly been duped and lied to all these years.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 10:00:26 AM by Solarwind »

Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1278 on: January 02, 2021, 10:06:39 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
But I was using water as an analogy and you simply do not have the ability to understand that.
How about you tell me why fish have a swim bladder.


Quote from: JackBlack
Instead the pressure gradient in it pushes everything up.

What pressure gradient, in it?
Explain it.

Fish have swim bladders to change how much they float-sink-stay neutral.
same a submarines and scuba divers.
Whats your point.
Start making points because water is a fluid and like air, pushes things up when the density (in the conventional sense) is less.
Whats your point?


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JackBlack

  • 22526
Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1279 on: January 02, 2021, 01:31:20 PM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
No, if you just look at it as water and completely ignore the atmosphere.
Which is the very reason you play your games. You clearly know what I'm saying but you know it gives food for thought for the genuine people.
I know that what you are saying is nonsense and easily explain why.
And you are the one who seems to be playing games.
You object to looking at it as water against atmosphere and then treat looking at it as just water without atmosphere as playing games.
Just which one did you want?

Now again, care to explain what magic causes your pressure gradient?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1280 on: January 03, 2021, 02:29:17 AM »
Quote
Does mass have density?
If so then use your brain.

Silly me.  My back has started aching from all the times I have had to bow to your superior knowledge.  I wish you had been my physics teacher when I went to college.  So too no doubt do all the other RE believers who have clearly been duped and lied to all these years.
Now's the time to start using your brain to question.
You came here to ridicule and realise it's not as simple as you imagined.
There's no other reason for you to be here, unless you are genuinely interested in questioning your indoctrinated model but giving off the internet face of back patting the those who are in the majority indoctrination camp.

Which is it?


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sceptimatic

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Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1281 on: January 03, 2021, 02:34:05 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
But I was using water as an analogy and you simply do not have the ability to understand that.
How about you tell me why fish have a swim bladder.


Quote from: JackBlack
Instead the pressure gradient in it pushes everything up.

What pressure gradient, in it?
Explain it.

Fish have swim bladders to change how much they float-sink-stay neutral.
same a submarines and scuba divers.
Whats your point.
Start making points because water is a fluid and like air, pushes things up when the density (in the conventional sense) is less.
Whats your point?
The point is very simple. You just made it but cannot correlate it to atmosphere, for some reason.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30068
Re: Sea and air pressure
« Reply #1282 on: January 03, 2021, 02:35:19 AM »
When you can understand the analogy, come back to me.
We understand it, we just realise that it shows you are wrong.
Water doesn't magically push people down.
Of course, if you look at it as water against atmosphere.
No, if you just look at it as water and completely ignore the atmosphere.
Which is the very reason you play your games. You clearly know what I'm saying but you know it gives food for thought for the genuine people.
I know that what you are saying is nonsense and easily explain why.
And you are the one who seems to be playing games.
You object to looking at it as water against atmosphere and then treat looking at it as just water without atmosphere as playing games.
Just which one did you want?

Now again, care to explain what magic causes your pressure gradient?
Come back to me when you understand what an analogy is in the way I use water,
Until then, you carry on with your nonsense.