Are all flat earthers also Genesis believers?

Quote from: disputeone on November 04, 2022, 01:08:33 AM

No specific connection. Shifter implied I was on drugs when I met Jesus so I just posted the detail for clarity.

This is flat earth debate.

You brought it up.

More on flat earth drugs...

Psychedelic mushroom dose can treat stubborn depression, trial suggests
Psilocybin, the active hallucinogen found in psychedelic mushrooms — also known as “magic mushrooms” — can effectively alleviate a severe bout of depression when administered in a single dose and combined with talk therapy, a new clinical study found.

Yeah for Flat Earth Genesis Shrooms!

Stash, for a quick or temporary fix, a hit of magic mushrooms might do the trick, but not in the long term.

Notice they say can effectively alleviate a bout of depression? A 5 km jog with the hit of endorphins it provides the brain, combined with talk therapy, could also effectively alleviate a severe bout of depression. So, what an irresponsible article that is.

Dispute 1, what drug were you combining with your esoteric demon conjuring practices? Oh, and would you mind sending a demon to visit Wise, so wise can identify the demon as God or Satan, or neither?

Quote from: Stash on November 04, 2022, 01:10:36 AM

Quote from: disputeone on November 04, 2022, 01:08:33 AM

No specific connection. Shifter implied I was on drugs when I met Jesus so I just posted the detail for clarity.

This is flat earth debate.

You brought it up.

More on flat earth drugs...

Psychedelic mushroom dose can treat stubborn depression, trial suggests
Psilocybin, the active hallucinogen found in psychedelic mushrooms — also known as “magic mushrooms” — can effectively alleviate a severe bout of depression when administered in a single dose and combined with talk therapy, a new clinical study found.

Yeah for Flat Earth Genesis Shrooms!

Stash, for a quick or temporary fix, a hit of magic mushrooms might do the trick, but not in the long term.

Notice they say can effectively alleviate a bout of depression? A 5 km jog with the hit of endorphins it provides the brain, combined with talk therapy, could also effectively alleviate a severe bout of depression. So, what an irresponsible article that is.

Agreed, a good ole endorphin rush after a jog is probably useful. But it is unknown right now if shrooms could provide long term benefits or not. So blanketly saying they won't is an overreach because you don't know and I don't know. And you never know, in 10 years, studies could find that shrooms are all sorts of greatness for physical and/or mental health. Or not.
In short, you shouldn't be an absolutist about it. For yourself, of course, but not for others. And some people hate jogging and get zero pleasure or benefit from it. I personally crave it.

Everyone who believes that Earth is a ball, speeding through an endless 'universe', same as I once was, held that one, exact same belief, same thought, which everyone on Earth believed, most people still believe it, too.

You think everyone who believes Earth is flat, or at least not a ball, or doubt it's all true, or anything but absolute belief in it, we fired golf balls on the moon, over 50 years ago, why would we go back now, just because you 'think they should', to prove it isn't a fake?

Why would I possibly have any doubts about their rockets, just because they vanish from all sight in about 3-4 minutes, and they don't allow anyone to see them after that, but they aren't hiding anything at all from us, though!

I've shown you their claims about Saturn have been lies, hiding truths from us, never allowing us to see Saturn as they claim to have seen it, over all these years, and centuries.

And after we've finally SEEN they lied about Saturn, from proving their claims are all complete BS, nothing mpre......you think they aren't lying at all, because there's no actual PROOF of them lying at all.

Proving that someone, or group of people, have lied about something(s), is not like a murder case, with proof of a weapon, and traces of blood, and so on. It doesn't have to be, either.

No written confession of lying is going to be found, tp prove they've lied about something!

Claims of seeing actual FEATURES of Saturn, over 400 years ago, with such little magnification, is absolute nonsense. Proven by US not seeing any actual, identifiable features on Saturn, whatsoever, using far greater magnification than they had back then, and not even CLOSE to it, even! 

The finest telescopes in the world, today, set at the same magnification THEY had, or 2-3 x more than they had, couldn't match up to ours, today.

Your excuse is that they had better instruments than we have today, but cannot prove it, since they don't exist anymore, which is YOUR problem, not mine. You're the one claiming they were better than ours, so YOU have to prove it, but if you can't, it's worthless blather. Same as usual.

You're so desperate to defend a group of people, that just make claims about what they've 'seen', for the past 400 years or so, while never having a shred of proof for any of it, and not allowing anyone else to CONFIRM any of it, while they make up lame excuses about it.

You don't seem to realize what makes them liars, not telling us the truth, not telling us what they DID see, when observing Saturn, for hours and hours, day after day, year after year...

And we could prove what they saw, except their telescopes were destroyed, not 'dismantled, as they call it. 

What other milestone instrument, which made historical findings of the planets, Saturn's rings, and so forth, is junked like trash?

It didn't see what they claimed to see with it, so they didn't want others to know that, and destroyed it for that reason.

They don't destroy such instruments, of such importance, because most of them DID work as claimed to work.

I've shown you their claims about Saturn have been lies

No, you haven't. You have repeatedly lied about Saturn, making bold claims which you refuse to justify and which rely upon you rejecting almost everyday occurrences like heat hazes.

Proving that someone, or group of people, have lied about something(s), is not like a murder case, with proof of a weapon, and traces of blood, and so on. It doesn't have to be, either.

If you want to assert they have lied, the burden is on you to demonstrate that. You can't just appeal to your own ignorance as if that magically proves it.

The finest telescopes in the world, today, set at the same magnification THEY had, or 2-3 x more than they had, couldn't match up to ours, today.

The telescopes you use are not as good as the ones they had. Their instruments are fairly well documented with some still existing as historical pieces which you can check out yourself, either in their entirety or as part of them.

You're the one claiming they were better than ours, so YOU have to prove it

Quite the opposite. You are the one claiming that the instruments you are using, which in some cases is just a crappy camera, is vastly superior to what they had. So the burden is on you to prove it.

Everyone who believes that Earth is a ball, speeding through an endless 'universe', same as I once was, held that one, exact same belief, same thought, which everyone on Earth believed, most people still believe it, too.

You think everyone who believes Earth is flat, or at least not a ball, or doubt it's all true, or anything but absolute belief in it, we fired golf balls on the moon, over 50 years ago, why would we go back now, just because you 'think they should', to prove it isn't a fake?

Why would I possibly have any doubts about their rockets, just because they vanish from all sight in about 3-4 minutes, and they don't allow anyone to see them after that, but they aren't hiding anything at all from us, though!

I've shown you their claims about Saturn have been lies, hiding truths from us, never allowing us to see Saturn as they claim to have seen it, over all these years, and centuries.

And after we've finally SEEN they lied about Saturn, from proving their claims are all complete BS, nothing mpre......you think they aren't lying at all, because there's no actual PROOF of them lying at all.

Proving that someone, or group of people, have lied about something(s), is not like a murder case, with proof of a weapon, and traces of blood, and so on. It doesn't have to be, either.

No written confession of lying is going to be found, tp prove they've lied about something!

Claims of seeing actual FEATURES of Saturn, over 400 years ago, with such little magnification, is absolute nonsense. Proven by US not seeing any actual, identifiable features on Saturn, whatsoever, using far greater magnification than they had back then, and not even CLOSE to it, even! 

The finest telescopes in the world, today, set at the same magnification THEY had, or 2-3 x more than they had, couldn't match up to ours, today.

Your excuse is that they had better instruments than we have today, but cannot prove it, since they don't exist anymore, which is YOUR problem, not mine. You're the one claiming they were better than ours, so YOU have to prove it, but if you can't, it's worthless blather. Same as usual.

You're so desperate to defend a group of people, that just make claims about what they've 'seen', for the past 400 years or so, while never having a shred of proof for any of it, and not allowing anyone else to CONFIRM any of it, while they make up lame excuses about it.

You don't seem to realize what makes them liars, not telling us the truth, not telling us what they DID see, when observing Saturn, for hours and hours, day after day, year after year...

And we could prove what they saw, except their telescopes were destroyed, not 'dismantled, as they call it. 

What other milestone instrument, which made historical findings of the planets, Saturn's rings, and so forth, is junked like trash?

It didn't see what they claimed to see with it, so they didn't want others to know that, and destroyed it for that reason.

They don't destroy such instruments, of such importance, because most of them DID work as claimed to work.

Turbonium, all I get from your angry rant here, is you prefer to think of the Earth as flat. Don't think for a single second you are going to light the world on fire and turn anybody who reads your said post into a flat earther.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. We are all flat earthers to an extent, trapped by our minute size on this planet as perceiving our immediate world from the ground as flat. The difference between you and everybody else, is you can't handle the big picture, and you have a complex about the Earth being a globe, and are fixated on trying to prove in vain it is not.

You've let your primitive emotions run wild yet again, and gone way off topic.

Turbonium, as a flat Earther, do you believe in the literal interpretation of the book of Genesis in the bible? Try to focus.

Stash, the only time I've been high, is one time when I was seizing a large cannabis crop, and my rubber gloves kept tearing and the cannabis juices were absorbed into my body through the skin of my hands. Medicinal cannabis is the latest fad with a hallucinogen becoming legalised, and I think it's a crock. Hallucinogens are dangerois and people need to learn to face their problems instead of masking them and hiding from them in trips.

While I think drugs are stupid I also think the fact we have thrown people in jail and ruined their potential (eg employment opportunity) over personally growing a few plants for their own use is disgusting

The 'war on drugs' is a complete failure and has only made things worse giving criminal cartels a lucrative business model and knock on crime rate increases with people turning to an expensive black market (eg theft).

Treat drug use as a medical problem and not a criminal one. It would also take away the allure of it in the first place as teenagers seem to like to do things on opposition to what's lawful

I was always such a square though. Never touched drugs, cigarettes and don't care for alcohol at all. When I was in the hospital with a broken foot they asked me what my pain was from 1-10. I said 0. (which it was because the swelling must have compressed the nerves).

People said I should have said it hurt like hell so they could give me the good stuff lol

There are some people who could have a legit reason for medical use of cannabis. It's a pity it's been criminalised for so long that even science research into it was avoided.

Like all things medicinal, it's open to be abused

No, it is exactly what I have said.

Another lie, as always. Are we surprised? Of course no. You have no value judgments.

I know I chose that. So if I am tormented, it is your evil POS choosing to do so.

No. Our God does not do that. If you don't want to be tormented, you have to tell your own God, that is, your Satan.

No, it doesn't. The RE is supported by mountains of evidence. Your delusional BS is supported by none.

The number of proven and proven evidence you have of RE: Zero so far. I guess it's less than a mountain, but nothing.

And what I am saying is that you are wrong.

Just because you said I was wrong doesn't mean I was wrong. It shows you are wrong.

So he should punish me for your fantasy?

What's wrong with you and your God is none of my business. I empathized, if I were your God, I would either send you to a place from which you can never leave, or you would be completely destroyed after this life. Probably the second one anyway. You are a complete failure.

Then start trying to defend it by explaining how those actions aren't evil, rather than continually ignoring them.

What act of God have you proven to be bad? Zero. Besides, why should I defend the evil your God (Satan) did to you? What is it to me? Your God, your problem. I have no problem any of God. Haha. Cry moar.

No, I talk about the evil POS you worship.

I worship only one thing and that is a good God. If you think you are an evil God, he is your God. In that case, I can understand that you don't worship him. Because you misunderstood him.

So you are happy to associate ... with a map of Earth...

Aren't you still ashamed to mention the bloody name of a terrorist organization here? Is blood one of your food sources? Are you a satanist? Is this actually one of your rituals?

That's right, I am denying facts.

Thanks for supporting my thinking on this matter. Oh, there's nothing here to show that it belongs to you. Let me tell you in advance, don't cry, just get a little grow.

If you understood evolution at all, you wouldn't be spouting such ignorant nonsense.

So far you haven't been able to offer a single not-ignorantly supportive argument for evolution. On the other hand, you continue to ignorantly claim that evolution exists, despite the conclusive evidence I have put forward. And besides, you are not ashamed at all. Where are the middle forms? They are dead like ideas in your brain.

There are countless people who have lived, without leaving behind any evidence for these specific individuals. That doesn't mean that don't exist.

You cannot say "there are countless proofs of their existence" if there is no proof that people who lived without leaving any evidence are alive. Because you're already destroying your argument from the start. You say there is no evidence and then you say the evidence is gone. Find someone else to make fun of.

No, I claimed you have proof, and all I have been able to provide is my own ignorance.

This is exactly what you did. You say "my evidence is dead" and then you say "there was innumerable evidence". You clearly have ignorant courage. But the question of where the intermediate forms are is clear evidence. But you are running. Do not escape.

I do, do you?

No you do not. If you clearly understood the difference between doing and being able, you wouldn't say "if he could, he would". This is plain ignorance and "proves" that you is lying.

So according to your delusional BS, your god (which you claim created me) is a childish tyrant demon?

No, according to your delusional BS, it is your God a childish tyrant demon. Mine is a good God like me.

And I'm not saying you believe your god is evil. I am saying the god you believe in IS evil. A significant difference.

Yes, and this significant difference makes her your God, not mine. In order to say what I believe in, you must know him, it is not enough you to believe. If you believe, he is your God. This is already the case. You do not know anything but expressing your BS halusinations those nobody have to agree here.

It necessarily is (unless you want to claim your god has no free will)

You just said you understand the difference between doing and being able to. It is proven once again you are lying. Could it be his "free will" to prevent evil from being done to you? If that's what you understand by free will, you think of God as your servant, not your God. You are totally wrong about this.

Depending on exactly how you want to define manager, yes, I have. And that means I know that managers have the choice to step in and act.

You are not qualified to lead other people anywhere. Either that never happened and you're lying, or they fired you right away. Because you obviously don't have the equipment to manage others. I can't imagine how you can tolerate others when you're a person who doesn't even like God. Tell the truth, how many people did you manage in total for how many months?

So your god is tormenting people to test them and try to teach them something? If so, it is evil.

I said this is a testing and learning place. Your God is the ruler of this place. But I have no problem with that.

Note that I am saying you are evil because you need evil to have fun. That is not me saying you needed to be evil to have fun. Instead it is saying that you claimed you needed evil to have fun.

You're making a word salad again. What I am saying clearly is the mutual creation of good and evil. God created me (good), then he created you (bad) to balance. I don't have a problem with that, I'm not complaining about you, I also believe that you should exist. But you deny that you have to exist.

Again, for the good me to exist, the bad you have to exist too. Unlike is unthinkable.

I told you to go to church and sit for 10 minutes, you didn't.

You still haven't been able to admit that you haven't been vaccinated.

You are not honest because you lack the value judgments to cause it.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 04, 2022, 11:48:41 PM

I've shown you their claims about Saturn have been lies

No, you haven't. You have repeatedly lied about Saturn, making bold claims which you refuse to justify and which rely upon you rejecting almost everyday occurrences like heat hazes.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 04, 2022, 11:48:41 PM

Proving that someone, or group of people, have lied about something(s), is not like a murder case, with proof of a weapon, and traces of blood, and so on. It doesn't have to be, either.

If you want to assert they have lied, the burden is on you to demonstrate that. You can't just appeal to your own ignorance as if that magically proves it.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 04, 2022, 11:48:41 PM

The finest telescopes in the world, today, set at the same magnification THEY had, or 2-3 x more than they had, couldn't match up to ours, today.

The telescopes you use are not as good as the ones they had. Their instruments are fairly well documented with some still existing as historical pieces which you can check out yourself, either in their entirety or as part of them.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 04, 2022, 11:48:41 PM

You're the one claiming they were better than ours, so YOU have to prove it

Quite the opposite. You are the one claiming that the instruments you are using, which in some cases is just a crappy camera, is vastly superior to what they had. So the burden is on you to prove it.

We have instruments with 3000x magnification today, while they had about 150-200x magnification back then.

The power of a telescope is it's magnification power, because that's what it's USED for  to magnify things as much as possible. Obviously, the ability to focus things sharply, is also very important, among other things. But not as much as magnification is.

Having 200x magnification could never allow them to see any 'features' of Saturn, when it cannot show any features of Saturn with 3000x magnification we have today.

But I'm sure they saw Saturn in constant, endless motion, as we always do. They claimed it slowly rotated once every 10.6 hours, seeing 'features' of it, rotating once every 10.6 hours, which are ALL lies they told us.

But you think they saw features of Saturn, and saw them rotate once every 10.6 hours, despite the fact we cannot see any features of it, let alone see them 'rotate' once every 10.6 hours.

It's a fairy tale, and you believe in fairy tales, of course.

Another lie, as always.

Well thanks for summing up your post. That does seem to be all you are doing.
You still refuse to make any attempt to justify the evil actions of the evil POS you worship.

Our God does not do that.

Biblically it certainly does.
You can't just ignore all the evil actions your god has done because you want to pretend your god is good.
Once more, if it chooses to torment me, it is its choice, not mine.
No amount of BS you spout will change that fact.

The number of proven and proven evidence you have of RE

So much it isn't funny.
You rejecting it because it doesn't fit your fantasy doesn't magically stop it existing.

Just because you said I was wrong doesn't mean I was wrong. It shows you are wrong.

No, explaining why you are wrong does not make me wrong.

What's wrong with you and your God

I have no god. Stop spouting the same pathetic BS.

What act of God have you proven to be bad?

Plenty, such as several key parts of Genesis. You just ignored them.

I worship only one thing and that is a good God.

The god you worship is an evil POS. You claiming it is good wont change that.

Aren't you still ashamed to mention the bloody name of a terrorist organization here?

Why would I be? I'm not supporting them at all.
I'm not the one lying about them.
So why should I be ashamed?

I'm a pathetic child that needs to edit people's post to lie about what they say.

Glad you can start to admit to your shortcomings.
I'm just going to entirely skip any more of your BS where you do that (if I notice).

So far you haven't been able to offer a single not-ignorantly supportive argument for evolution

Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.
You want to claim it is fake, the burden is on you to do so.
You appealing to your own ignorance will not meet that burden.

You cannot say "there are countless proofs of their existence"

Good thing I didn't.
Now try addressing what I actually said.

If you clearly understood the difference between doing and being able, you wouldn't say "if he could, he would".

Again, try addressing what I actually said.
I said that if your god can lie, that means you cannot say that a being lying means it is not your god.

No, according to your delusional BS, it is your God a childish tyrant demon.

No, according to my rational position, I have no god.
It is you who claimed your god created me.
And it is you who claimed the god that created me is a childish tyrant demon.
That means you are claiming your god is a childish tyrant demon.

Yes, and this significant difference makes her your God, not mine.

No, it doesn't.
As I am evaluating your god, it is still your god, not mine.
You wanting to falsely claim your god is good does not negate the evil it has done.

You just said you understand the difference between doing and being able to. It is proven once again you are lying.

How?
By exposing the insanity of your position?
You don't even bother trying to even address the argument I have put forth to explain why your position is insanity. Instead you just pull this dishonest BS.

Here it is for you again, if your god knows about the evil that is happening, and has the power to stop it, but does not stop it, then it is it choosing to not stop it.
That means your god is choosing to allow this evil, which makes it evil.

Either that never happened and you're lying

What is the point in asking me, when you will just accuse me of lying.
It's just pathetic.
Grow up.

I said this is a testing and learning place.

And your god is meant to be the one who made this place and who is ultimately responsible for it.
Your god is meant to be the being in control of everything, who could stop it if it wanted to do so.
So yes, your god is evil because of it.

You're making a word salad again.

No, you are trying to falsely claim things about what I have said, to pretend I have said things when I haven't, all to avoid the logical implications of what you have said.
You think you need evil to have fun. That makes you a horrible person.
I don't need evil to have fun.

Now grow up and try addressing what has actually been said instead of pathetic dismissal.

We have instruments with 3000x magnification today

You sure do love appealing to this number as if it will magically remove all the air in the way and overcome the resolution limit of the optics.
Magnification isn't everything.
The instruments you are using to try and look at Saturn are inferior to plenty of instruments used in the past. Instruments with a much larger aperture, which makes them much more suited for viewing small objects in the sky.

Obviously, the ability to focus things sharply, is also very important, among other things. But not as much as magnification is.

Magnification is only important up to the resolution limit. If you cannot focus on an object to get a clear sharp image, further magnification is entirely pointless.
So resolution/the ability to focus is vastly more important than magnification, as without it magnification is useless.

Magnification allows you to see an object. Resolution is what you need to make out details on it.

Having 200x magnification could never allow them to see any 'features' of Saturn, when it cannot show any features of Saturn with 3000x magnification we have today.

See, this is the kind of delusional BS you spout when you ignore the importance of resolution.
As an example, I will use this image of Saturn:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Saturn_during_Equinox.jpg
Here is a portion of it, with decent resolution, allowing you to easily see details.

Here is that same portion, with a much worse resolution, but greater magnification, with the vast majority of the features lost:


Yes, this is digital version, but it is comparable with analogue technology as well.

Without the required resolution you will not be able to make out details, no matter how good your magnification is.

But I'm sure they saw Saturn in constant, endless motion, as we always do.

You keep claiming this BS, yet you can provide nothing to demonstrate it.
So far all the videos you are using to claim this magical motion just show distortion due to the atmosphere. You have provided nothing to challenge this.

despite the fact we cannot see any features of it, let alone see them 'rotate' once every 10.6 hours.

And you are yet to even attempt it with a telescope as good as what they used.

Distortion makes everything blurry or fuzzy, it's simply more noticeable on objects than elsewhere, that's not what we see with Saturn, though.

I've shown you frames of a star, with sharp details on it, moving together as it spins quickly. No matter, you claim it is NOT in focus, not sharp, not showing any details of it, even while those details move together at the same time, in relation to one another, at different angles.

There's even a blue colored area on it, moving around as well, at different angles, still a blue color in it.

And it shows DEPTH to it, which is NOT from any effect, and is clearly in focus, too.


You'll never admit Saturn is in motion, or stars look like that, you're brainwashed into thinking they all look like tiny points of light, when in 'focus'. You'll never accept anything else that you see, no matter how clear and sharp it is.

While I think drugs are stupid I also think the fact we have thrown people in jail and ruined their potential (eg employment opportunity) over personally growing a few plants for their own use is disgusting

The 'war on drugs' is a complete failure and has only made things worse giving criminal cartels a lucrative business model and knock on crime rate increases with people turning to an expensive black market (eg theft).

Treat drug use as a medical problem and not a criminal one. It would also take away the allure of it in the first place as teenagers seem to like to do things on opposition to what's lawful

I was always such a square though. Never touched drugs, cigarettes and don't care for alcohol at all. When I was in the hospital with a broken foot they asked me what my pain was from 1-10. I said 0. (which it was because the swelling must have compressed the nerves).

People said I should have said it hurt like hell so they could give me the good stuff lol

There are some people who could have a legit reason for medical use of cannabis. It's a pity it's been criminalised for so long that even science research into it was avoided.

Like all things medicinal, it's open to be abused

That's an extremely narrow and unrealistic view. People ruin their own potential all on their own by indulging in drug taking.

I don't believe in soft drugs. Cannabis is a gateway drug to all the harder drugs. You've obviously never had to fight anyone high on methamphetamine, Wolvaccine, or been burgled by such an addict. I once watched such a person pull all his own hair out of his scalp. Drug induced psychosis is another charming side effect of such drug taking.

Nobody is holding a gun to these people's heads and forcing them to take illegal drugs. They do it all on their own.

Just like Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, willingly and disobediently eating the forbidden fruit - the apple. This is where your post was heading, wasn't it? Illegal drugs are like that apple, no?

Not like Turbonium, Wise, and Jock Block happily engaged in separate mindnumbingly useless off topic flat earth debate. Discuss Saturn in a separate thread.

Distortion makes everything blurry or fuzzy, it's simply more noticeable on objects than elsewhere, that's not what we see with Saturn, though.

I've shown you frames of a star, with sharp details on it, moving together as it spins quickly. No matter, you claim it is NOT in focus, not sharp, not showing any details of it, even while those details move together at the same time, in relation to one another, at different angles.

There's even a blue colored area on it, moving around as well, at different angles, still a blue color in it.

And it shows DEPTH to it, which is NOT from any effect, and is clearly in focus, too.


You'll never admit Saturn is in motion, or stars look like that, you're brainwashed into thinking they all look like tiny points of light, when in 'focus'. You'll never accept anything else that you see, no matter how clear and sharp it is.

Saturn looks like it does, because it's a planet in motion. Just like Jupiter or Venus. They are our neighbours. What point are you trying to make?

Well thanks for summing up your post. That does seem to be all you are doing.

It is your duty to defend or criticize your God's (Devil) evil actions. Since what you are talking about is not my God, I take no offence here.

Biblically it certainly does.

You are lying. Otherwise you could prove it. You insult God only because you don't love your own God. The God in the Bible and the God in your imagination are unrelated.
Again, prove God in bible is bad or evil, otherwise you are under effect of a childish evil tyrant.

Once more, if it chooses to torment me, it is its choice, not mine.

It is quite your choice. It is absolute your own choice. You didn't tell anyone, did you, knowing that the vaccine was harmful at the expense of other people? Who forced you to do this? No one. Look, you still can't say that. Whatever the motivation behind it, you are causing harm to other people by hiding the truth. Look, it's an evil, and you're still doing it. While you are doing evil to others, when it turns to you, God will be bad and you are good? Grow up a bit. Take responsibility for your bad deeds.

So much it isn't funny.

Paying is not a bad thing. Paying bills isn't fun either. If you do want to pay account for anything, you have to be honest, fair, compassionate. But you don't have any of these, but core evil. Shouldn't there something for equalize this as a punishment? Justice is not evil. Justice exists to balance your evil. You face evil because you do evil. There isn't anything wrong here. If you're looking for fun, you need to do it without harming others. You're causing so many deaths right now just by keeping me busy. And with your sophisticated algorithm, I'm sure you can now calculate how many people die because of it every second. When you do not do evil, you hinder good. And God is unjust when they somehow come back to you as a punishment of your evil? Dude, your brain works completely unilaterally. You versus the  God, the devil, spirits, humans, animals and rest of the world. Your value judgments are completely wrong.

No, explaining why you are wrong does not make me wrong.

It makes you wrong because your explanation is a BS.

I have no god. Stop spouting the same pathetic BS.

If you do not have a God, then who is the person you claim to have wronged you? You are clearly inconsistent, experiencing contradictions within yourself. It's like a volcano erupts inside you and then it dives into the deepest part of the sea, and you say "nothing happened" in the meantime.

Plenty, such as several key parts of Genesis. You just ignored them.

You could not show any of them but pathetically claim they are exist. You say that I still ignore it. You failed to provide any concrete evidence.

The god you worship is an evil POS. You claiming it is good wont change that.

If you had put forward any evidence, we could have asked over it whether I denied it. You say "God is evil" according to bible but the Bible says "God is good". The evidence is the opposite of what you said. You say "the Bible proves God is bad", but it is stated in the Bible that "the Bible proves God is good". Clearly the bible refutes you, the bible beats you. Bible 1 you 0. But you  still pathetically claim that the Bible supports you. No, this is a touching scene.

Why would I be? I'm not supporting them at all.

Because they are globalists like you and feed off NASA. You are clearly a colleague. At least you may not talk about them at all.

Glad I can start to admit to my shortcomings.

All this is part of personal development. If you don't thrive, you become trash.

Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.
You want to claim it is fake, the burden is on you to do so.
You appealing to your own ignorance will not meet that burden.

Let's count the evidence you've put forward about evolution so far: zero.
Let's count the evidence I've put forward so far against evolution, but which you've avoided answering correctly: one.
It is obvious who is ignorant because of who answers the questions and who runs away. Again and again, I ask over and over: Where are the intermediate forms? If they are dead, bring their dead.

Good thing I didn't.

Yes, you didn't anything but told you did.

Again, try addressing what I actually said.
I said that if your god can lie, that means you cannot say that a being lying means it is not your god.

Don't play on the possibility that I don't understand it by making more complex sentences each time. You didn't make such a complex sentence. How would you understand if I told you something like this now? "Tanrı yalan söyleyebilir veya söyleyemez demiyorum. Size söylüyorum, Tanrı'nın yalan söyleyip söylemediği, yalan söyleyip söylemediği konusunda kesin bir fikir edinmek bizim işimiz değil. Tabii ki her şeyi yapabilir ama ben o bunu yapamaz dersem "bir şeyleri yapmaya gücü yok" diyeceksiniz, yapabilir dersem "o zaman o kötü bir tanrıdır" diyeceksiniz. Her iki durumda da, inkar edeceksiniz. Çünkü beyninizin sadece inkar kısmı çalışıyor.

Now translate this into English as I always do and answer me in Turkish and see how you will feel.

No, according to my rational position, I have no god.

Your words and actions don't match. You say that there is a God (according to you our imaginary God) and that he has done you evil. But that the evil God is unbiblical, he is clearly your God. Denying him doesn't change the fact that you believe him. If you don't believe it, you shouldn't mention it at all. If you're going to talk about God as we understand it, you have to tell it as the Bible tells it. If you tell otherwise, it becomes your belief, not what the Bible tells.

It is you who claimed your god created me.

No, I said you were created by your God. It's your own claim that my God created you. Because I don't believe in such a God as you described. There is one God and is everyone's God. If you are talking about another God (like my God, for example), it is your God, not mine.

As I am evaluating your god, it is still your god, not mine.

No. The moment you say something other than my belief about the God I believe in, that moment that God is your God after that it has nothing to do with me anymore. Just like changing quotes. As soon as you change the quote, it no longer belongs to me. Can you empathize with that? You are very weak at this point. Your problem is that you're selfish and can't empathize. Actually NPC3s use an algorithm similar to empathy but I guess they forgot to add that to you. I suggest you format: C. Then Upgrade windows.

Here it is for you again, if your god knows about the evil that is happening, and has the power to stop it, but does not stop it, then it is it choosing to not stop it.

Firstly, it is your God you are talking about. Whenever you talk about God, he is your God, let's agree on that first. Even when you say you are godless, it belongs to you because the word God is in it. The sentence is yours, and the god is yours.

Don't try to divert the subject with simple word games. There will be evil and good, and God does not have to intervene in all of them. It doesn't have to interfere with any of them. People died because you didn't tell them the vaccine was bad, but he didn't punish you. Look, if there was an evil God, he would have to do you evil here. He's waiting calmly, and one day you'll pay for it, to your God.

And your god is meant to be the one who made this place and who is ultimately responsible for it.

You are talking about your own God right now. Because there is no such God as "my God". It makes sense if you say "God", but when you say "your God" it turns to your God, not mine, because I believe in everyone's God, not a "my God" God.

No, you are trying to falsely claim things about what I have said, to pretend I have said things when I haven't, all to avoid the logical implications of what you have said.

There is no general logic in what you say. You are always the one manipulating the issues and escaping from the essence of the issue.

I have the courage not to get vaccinated, but I don't have the courage to share this with others.

If you were honest enough to tell the truth, many people who are not with us now would still be living here. Are we surprised? Of course no. Other people are just numbers to you. There were 25, now 20 left, now you will spend less time. No problem for you, is it? When I suggest that God should punish you for this, you are saying that God is evil. No, you are evil and you find it fair that your evil should go unpunished. Your value judgments are garbage, your sense of justice is primitive. You need to grow. What goes around comes around.

My Satan God will punish me if I go to church.

This is what your case, I guess.

Quote from: Wolvaccine on November 05, 2022, 03:04:07 AM

While I think drugs are stupid I also think the fact we have thrown people in jail and ruined their potential (eg employment opportunity) over personally growing a few plants for their own use is disgusting

The 'war on drugs' is a complete failure and has only made things worse giving criminal cartels a lucrative business model and knock on crime rate increases with people turning to an expensive black market (eg theft).

Treat drug use as a medical problem and not a criminal one. It would also take away the allure of it in the first place as teenagers seem to like to do things on opposition to what's lawful

I was always such a square though. Never touched drugs, cigarettes and don't care for alcohol at all. When I was in the hospital with a broken foot they asked me what my pain was from 1-10. I said 0. (which it was because the swelling must have compressed the nerves).

People said I should have said it hurt like hell so they could give me the good stuff lol

There are some people who could have a legit reason for medical use of cannabis. It's a pity it's been criminalised for so long that even science research into it was avoided.

Like all things medicinal, it's open to be abused

That's an extremely narrow and unrealistic view. People ruin their own potential all on their own by indulging in drug taking.

I don't believe in soft drugs. Cannabis is a gateway drug to all the harder drugs. You've obviously never had to fight anyone high on methamphetamine, Wolvaccine, or been burgled by such an addict. I once watched such a person pull all his own hair out of his scalp. Drug induced psychosis is another charming side effect of such drug taking.

Nobody is holding a gun to these people's heads and forcing them to take illegal drugs. They do it all on their own.

Just like Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, willingly and disobediently eating the forbidden fruit - the apple. This is where your post was heading, wasn't it? Illegal drugs are like that apple, no?

Not like Turbonium, Wise, and Jock Block happily engaged in separate mindnumbingly useless off topic flat earth debate. Discuss Saturn in a separate thread.

I had totally forgotten about the Apple in the conversation. I don't believe in that fable anyway. The 'apple' was said to contain knowledge. It's a metaphor. They could have read a forbidden papyrus for all we know.

Anyway what does more damage to society? Marijuana or alcohol? Ask any ER doctor what is the bigger problem. Any family councillor... I think the notion of some weirdo growing a plant in his backyard to smoke is hardly at the top of their list

How many people die from alcohol poisoning vs marijuana? Alcohol also kills untold innocents through the sheer number of drunk drivers or people caught up in the violence of someone who loses control on it too. It's a greater scourge tbh

Why doesn't alcohol get accused of being a gateway to any bad shit? I guess society deemed it sociable and the government takes in billions from its sales. I guess it's OK when the government is a dealer but the pleb growing a plant in his backyard is simply not on! Convict him and put a permanent record on his file so that getting a job or following his/her dreams becomes near impossible

I have no love for or any stake in weed. Will never use it myself but drugs being treated as a criminal problem and not a medical one is the wrong move

Outlaw bikie gangs, criminal cartels, drug dealers etc - could all lose a large part of their business model and revenue overnight with a stroke of a pen.

And people affected by them don't have to have the rest of their lives ruined - or engage in criminal activity to fund their addiction.

If we are going to talk shit about cannibis, then it's hard to take seriously when at the same time we promote and make shit loads of tobacco and especially alcohol

I think my state of the ACT has found a happy medium. It's not legal but is decriminalised (personal use amounts). Not everyone who smokes the odd joint is a meth head and treating them like they are is what is narrow minded. How many meth heads started with alcohol? Can we relate the two or is it all down to personality?

Many people who would smoke pot or eat some biscuits with it in there do it under the belief it's healthy and natural and for its calming effect. I doubt it will lead these types to meth because no one believes that shit is 'healthy'. Those that use meth, probably would have done so anyway

The government went so spastic about marijuana that even hemp - with its many versitile uses - was outlawed for a long time lol

I do add hemp seeds in my breakfast such as porridge - am I going to turn to meth now?

Everyone who believes that Earth is a ball, speeding through an endless 'universe', same as I once was, held that one, exact same belief, same thought, which everyone on Earth believed, most people still believe it, too.

It was known for hundreds of years before your god put 1/3 of himself on earth.  By the way, that 1/3 god (AKA Jesus) never said the earth was flat.

Why would I possibly have any doubts about their rockets, just because they vanish from all sight in about 3-4 minutes, and they don't allow anyone to see them after that, but they aren't hiding anything at all from us, though!

They "vanish from all sight" for the same reason you cannot see a fly at 100 yards.  "Never seen again"?  If you take your head out of the sand you would see them - over and over.  The astronauts return in them from the ISS.  Falcon 9's boost satellites into space and return to a precise point on earth.  William Shatner returned in the same one he flew out of sight in.

Proving that someone, or group of people, have lied about something(s), is not like a murder case, with proof of a weapon, and traces of blood, and so on. It doesn't have to be, either.

No written confession of lying is going to be found, tp prove they've lied about something!

Yet, you are OK with all the lies you were indoctrinated into believing as a young child.  The lie about a god taking a bone from a man to make a woman.  The lie bout a talking snake.  The lie about a global flood covering the highest mountains.  The lie about a handful of people in a rudderless wooden "boat" surviving the most horrific ocean storms possible.  Do you question who accurately recorded the 3000-word Sermon on the Mount?  Do you question Why there are differing accounts of the resurrection?  Of course not.  These concepts were instilled into your brain at a very early age.

Claims of seeing actual FEATURES of Saturn, over 400 years ago, with such little magnification, is absolute nonsense.

Which features specifically are you referring to?  Would it be the "little planets" that his telescope saw?

   

What other milestone instrument, which made historical findings of the planets, Saturn's rings, and so forth, is junked like trash?

It didn't see what they claimed to see with it, so they didn't want others to know that, and destroyed it for that reason.

They don't destroy such instruments, of such importance, because most of them DID work as claimed to work.

I call your conspiracy and raise you a bigger conspiracy.  Why was Jesus' chalice not preserved?   Why were none of Jesus' words, deeds, or actions written down contemporaneously? 


If you would put 10% of the amount of effort into analyzing your religious beliefs as you do trying desperately to find flaws in science, you would find that your religious views are all based on fairy tales.  It would be a painful journey, but those who have done it all agree that it is freeing.

 
No. Our God does not do that. If you don't want to be tormented, you have to tell your own God, that is, your Satan.

So, not a Genesis believer, but a believer in a different Magic Man In The Sky.  Not really a big difference in the grand scheme of things.
 

Instead of "Are all flat earthers also Genesis believers?", I probably should have titled my topic "Do all flat earthers also believe in a god".

Distortion makes everything blurry or fuzzy, it's simply more noticeable on objects than elsewhere, that's not what we see with Saturn, though.

Atmospheric distortion also makes things shimmer, appearing to oscillate...Here, the Moon through the atmosphere...

Again, prove God in bible is bad or evil, ...

If the Bible is telling the truth, then all one needs to do is read it to prove the God in the Bible is bad and a childish evil tyrant.

Examples:
Create A&E with such a high level of gullibility that they believe snakes can talk.
Create A&E with such a low level of morality that they would disobey their creator.
Pretend it's A&E's fault and kick them out of the Garden.

Realize around two thousand years later that your entire creation is f***ed up and kill them all (except one really good guy and his family).
Don't just zap the rest of living things out of existence, drown them all horrifically.  Young children, fetuses, puppies, and kittens.

Tell your boss man, Moses to kill all the old men and young boys and women except the young girl virgins.  Give them to your victorious warriors.

Send 1/2 of yourself to impregnate a young virgin to give birth to 1/3 of yourself.

Need I go on?

Again, prove God in bible is bad or evil, otherwise you are under effect of a childish evil tyrant.

I am under the effect of no magic man in the sky (or any magic man in the bowels of this very spherical earth).

Distortion makes everything blurry or fuzzy

Just like what is seen with Saturn.

I've shown you frames of a star

Also blurry and distorted.

You'll never admit Saturn is in motion, or stars look like that

I have told you what you need to provide to have me believe it. You have refused to provide it.

But there is no need to drag all this BS into this thread. Keep it in the other thread.

It is your duty to defend or criticize your God's (Devil) evil actions.

I have no god, with no actions to discuss.
It is your god that we are discussing, and so it is its actions which YOU need to defend.
You cannot defend them by just baselessly your evil POS is good.

You are lying. Otherwise you could prove it.

I did.
Back here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90943.msg2376085#msg2376085
and here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90943.msg2376111#msg2376111

You didn't like that, so you ignored it all, because you can't handle the fact you worship a fictitious evil POS.

It is quite your choice.

No, it isn't.
You repeatedly lying and saying it is my choice your pathetic attempt to pretend your god is not an evil POS.
It is NOT my choice. If it was my choice, I choose to not get tormented.
If the evil POS you worship actually exists and decides to torment me, it is its choice not mine.

Take responsibility for your bad deeds.

I have done nothing to deserve torment.
And even if I had, it would still be whoever is delivering that "punishment" that is making the choice to do so.

If you do want to pay account for anything, you have to be honest, fair, compassionate.

Good thing I am, unlike you, using whatever dishonest BS you can to pretend your god isn't an evil POS.

It makes you wrong because your explanation is a BS.

If my explanation was actually wrong, and you knew that, you would be able to demonstrate why it is wrong, instead of fleeing from it and repeatedly asserting the same pathetic refuted claims.

who is the person you claim to have wronged you

I haven't claimed your god wronged me.

You could not show any of them but pathetically claim they are exist.

You sure do love your lies don't you?
I provided them, and you just ignored it.
The links have been provided above.

You say "God is evil" according to bible

Yes, because the actions of God in the Bible are those of a childish evil tyrant, not a good being.
The Bible saying God is good does not negate those acts of evil and make it good.
Just like if Harry Potter said Voldemort was good, it would not make him good due to all the evil he has committed.

Because they are globalists like you

You mean they are Muslim like you.
A terrorist group accepting the reality that Earth is round makes no difference to me.
They also accept Earth exists, should that make me concerned? No.
The one who should be ashamed is you, for sharing a religion, something with no evidence to support it, with them.

Let's count the evidence you've put forward about evolution

Lets count the evidence I need to put forward to support evolution: ABSOLUTELY NONE!
I am under no obligation to provide you with any evidence to support evolution.
You are trying to use your ignorance of evolution to pretend a god must exist.
If you want to claim evolution is impossible the burden is on you to prove it. It is not on me to disprove it.
I don't need to prove evolution is real to have a justification to not believe in your fantasy.

Let's count the evidence I've put forward so far against evolution

Absolutely none.
Instead, you have just appealed to your own ignorance.
You are saying "I don't know, therefore God".

It is obvious who is ignorant because of who answers the questions and who runs away.

Yes, such as how you repeatedly run away from simple questions.

Don't play on the possibility that I don't understand it by making more complex sentences each time.

No, I fully expect you to understand it, but you will refuse to engage with it because it hurts your fantasy.
It is quite simple, either you god can't lie, meaning there is something quite simple that it can't do; or it can lie, in which a being lying doesn't preclude it from being God.

Your words and actions don't match.

You are yet to demonstrate how.
Me talking about your fictional god doesn't mean I have a god.
Me talking about your fictional god does not make me think your fictional god is real.

If you don't believe it, you shouldn't mention it at all.

Again, see ISIS.
Religious beliefs empower people to recruit others to commit acts of terror.
As such, while people are promoting such abhorrent beliefs I will speak out against it.
The god you worship is an evil POS which leads to creation of groups like ISIS.

No, I said you were created by your God.

Stop lying, it wont help you:

He cannot be called a bad God because God created you to be a bad person. Because God created you evil, but He also created me to balance. For he is surely a just God.

What I am saying clearly is the mutual creation of good and evil. God created me (good), then he created you (bad) to balance.

You have clearly described your god as creating me.

There is one God and is everyone's God.

Which again would mean that you are claiming your god created me.

The moment you say something other than my belief about the God I believe in, that moment that God is your God

No, it isn't.
As I am describing the actions you believe are the actions of your god, I am still describing your god, even those actions are pure evil.

You also show your own hypocrisy. If I have no god, how could I possibly be describing my god?
You seem quite happy to go completely against the fact that I have no god and repeatedly falsely claim I am describing my god.
Why the pathetic double standard?

Firstly, it is your God you are talking about. Whenever you talk about God, he is your God, let's agree on that first.

Fine, lets work on that. Everything else is entirely pointless.
IT IS NOT MY GOD!
I have no god.
I am not the fool who foolishly believes in a god when there is no reason at all to believe in such a being.
As such, it CANNOT be my god we are talking about.

As you are the one who believes in this evil POS (even though you refuse to admit it is evil), it is YOUR god we are talking about.
This is especially true considering you are the one making claims about what it does.
I am not the one claiming this evil POS is delegating its responsibilities to the devil to allow the devil to rule the world.
That is you. So this is certainly your god we are talking about. Not mine.

If your only response to having the evil of the evil POS you worship being exposed is to lie and say it is actually the other persons god, then you have no chance of ever growing.

Anyway what does more damage to society? Marijuana or alcohol?

Incomparable due to the wide availability of one, with it legal almost everywhere, while the other is much more restricted.
Also incomparable due to the different effects, and the issue of distinguishing between damage from smoking pot vs smoking tobacco.

If you want to target a legal drug, you would be better off targeting smoking tobacco, something only people with no concern for the people around them would do.
That should be criminal, with severe penalties.

But the government doesn't give a damn, because it lines their pockets.

Quote from: wise on November 05, 2022, 03:06:54 AM

 
No. Our God does not do that. If you don't want to be tormented, you have to tell your own God, that is, your Satan.

So, not a Genesis believer, but a believer in a different Magic Man In The Sky.  Not really a big difference in the grand scheme of things.
 

Instead of "Are all flat earthers also Genesis believers?", I probably should have titled my topic "Do all flat earthers also believe in a god".

The answer would still be no.

Quote from: Wolvaccine on November 05, 2022, 06:53:16 AM

Anyway what does more damage to society? Marijuana or alcohol?

Incomparable due to the wide availability of one, with it legal almost everywhere, while the other is much more restricted.
Also incomparable due to the different effects, and the issue of distinguishing between damage from smoking pot vs smoking tobacco.

If you want to target a legal drug, you would be better off targeting smoking tobacco, something only people with no concern for the people around them would do.
That should be criminal, with severe penalties.

But the government doesn't give a damn, because it lines their pockets.

You know what should also be criminal? Processed sugar. Obesity and type 2 diabetes is terrible for anybody's health. But I don't see the sugar industry coming under fire any time soon.

The fact of the matter is you have to die from something. Choose your poison.

You know what should also be criminal? Processed sugar.

I don't see anyone trying to force me to consume processed sugar.
But there are plenty of criminal scum trying to force me to smoke.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on November 05, 2022, 03:39:24 PM

You know what should also be criminal? Processed sugar.

I don't see anyone trying to force me to consume processed sugar.
But there are plenty of criminal scum trying to force me to smoke.

No,but all those advertisements marketed to kids (and adults alike) are trying to get people to buy products with needless added sugars in them. Sugar is addictive too

The amount of sugar in products is sold in amounts to get you addicted. There was also quite the campaign to demonise fat in favour of sugar

Even Subway buns have too much sugar in them to be considered bread (in Ireland). Why add sugar to bread? Especially for a product marketed as healthy?

Thankfully living in Oz, we don't have that high fructose corn syrup shit in everything in America though

Our grandfathers (or great grandfathers depending on your generation) ate only a few pounds worth of sugar every year. The Standard American Diet (SAD) consumes about 60 pounds. Disgusting. That shit is in everything that you aren't given much choice. Certainly no choice if your a low wage earning pleb.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on November 05, 2022, 03:39:24 PM

You know what should also be criminal? Processed sugar.

I don't see anyone trying to force me to consume processed sugar.
But there are plenty of criminal scum trying to force me to smoke.

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. All these things are readily available, whether it is in your supermarket aisle or the pocket of your favourite drug dealer, and that can be a problem.

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

So I'm just meant to not breathe when criminal scum is smoking and blowing it all around making it so if I breath I inhale it?

Yes.

Quote from: ecco on November 05, 2022, 09:29:30 AM

Quote from: wise on November 05, 2022, 03:06:54 AM

 
No. Our God does not do that. If you don't want to be tormented, you have to tell your own God, that is, your Satan.

So, not a Genesis believer, but a believer in a different Magic Man In The Sky.  Not really a big difference in the grand scheme of things.
 

Instead of "Are all flat earthers also Genesis believers?", I probably should have titled my topic "Do all flat earthers also believe in a god".

The answer would still be no.

Are you an atheist?  Or are you referring to an anecdotal someone else?  If neither, please explain.