Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus

Quote from: hoppy on September 28, 2022, 02:23:37 PM

Thanks Bulma! It's about time someone was reading a Bible around here.

I'm not sure that copying and pasting stuff from some random website constitutes "reading the bible".

It's copypasta. I string together quotes that match what I believe.

Alexei and the technicoloured dream coat

But did they sell you to Bedouin nomads?

. . . . . this one time at band camp

I knew it.

You can't trust band camp.

Quote from: Stash on September 28, 2022, 05:53:46 PM

Quote from: hoppy on September 28, 2022, 02:23:37 PM

Thanks Bulma! It's about time someone was reading a Bible around here.

I'm not sure that copying and pasting stuff from some random website constitutes "reading the bible".

It's copypasta. I string together quotes that match what I believe.

Yes, therein lies the problem. It's referred to as "confirmation bias".

Confirmation bias is what lazy atheists call coincidences that actually favor a supposition.

If you have something working 1 time out of 10, and you ignore the other nine times, this is confirmation bias.

For example: "God doesn't interact in the lives of humans"
 You say this on the way towards a shopping mall on Sunday. On the way there, "I Honestly Love You" is on the radio, but some digital glitch is displaying the band name as 60[). A church sign says "Have you talked with me lately?" while "Call Me, Maybe" plays on the radio. You also pass a burning bush slightly off the road. And so on, all the way up to getting back home. Billboards, bumper stickers, people you meet at the mall, all giving you a message in lieu of you having gone to church. But you ignore all of these things to focus on a few moments where God isn't interacting with you... that would be confirmation bias. Ignoring repeated signals to the contrary to confirm what you already believe.

Copying and pasting what I already know to be true, that's not confirmation bias. That's "finding a quote."

If you have something working 1 time out of 10, and you ignore the other nine times, this is confirmation bias.

Everything you post is ignoring the other 9.

I'm not obligated to answer to humans for my beliefs. They can think what they like.

Ignoring mob rule isn't the same as confirmation bias either.

The testament of my own life has given me more rhan sufficient evidence that there is a God, and that fretting about end times is misplaced energy. "No worries," I have heard repeatedly. If God is in control, and God loves us, how can we possibly worry about some crack hallucination that some guy in the first century (supposedly) named John had about some evil God who does alot of vengeance on innocent people because they don't fit into some narrow definition or righteous behavior?

Revelation is consistent with the sort of vengeful mindset we see in Psalm 137.

1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.

3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.

4 How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?

5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.

6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.

8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.

9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Seriously, taking about taking people's kids and smashing them against stones.

We have outgrown this shit. This doesn't mean the Bible is a lie. There is a God, and I fully believe I have seen him. What it does mean is that the Jewish rabbis who teach apocalypse theory are hateful liars. The God that I worship doesn't sentence little children to suffering and death, no matter whose they are, nor does he bathe more than 1/3 of the world in blood from some cause or another.

The God I worship loves atheists, gays, and even those who hate others and want to punish people.

Let's read Jonah.

https://biblehub.com/jonah/

Jonah is called by God to save the foreign land of Ninevah, yet runs the opposite way. Not as you might think, because he fears they might not listen and would kill him as a prophet. No, because he knows they probably will listen. We mainly hear about him getting swallowed by a whale (exact words are "big fish"), not about this reason, or their repentance. So Jonah sits and stews like a spoiled little shit. He wanted God to punish the people he hates... but God doesn't want to punish these people. So God makes a large leaf to grow up near him for shade, then scorches it to death. Jonah complains about this, and God says, "Are you worried about this plant, which you did nothing for? Am I not right to worry about this city with all its people, and also its many animals?"

The God I worship cares even about the wicked and the hypocrites. This God cares even about animals like sheep, or even tiny sparrows. So what proof do we have that Jesus will come again to judge all the sinners? None, it's crap from mistaken bloodthirsty "Christians" and Jews.

What it does mean is that the Jewish rabbis who teach apocalypse theory are hateful liars.

You might want to re-read the last chapter in the New Testament, you know, the book that the Jewish faith doesn't recognize nor teach, but Christian priests and ministers do. That seems to make christians the hateful liars. It really doesn't get more apocalyptic than Revelations.

This bit has the real makings of a Michael Bay film...

Sixth Trumpet: The Second Woe (9:13–21)
- The four angels bound to the great river Euphrates are released to prepare two hundred million horsemen.
- These armies kill a third of mankind by plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone.

It's always funny what christians (or any religion with a 'book') like to pick and choose from the bible. Like, "Oh yeah, the bible is the word of God, oh, except for this, and that, and this too...Otherwise, it's all the word of God..Hold on for sec, oh yeah, but not this other part either...and that one too..."

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 02, 2022, 10:46:08 PM

What it does mean is that the Jewish rabbis who teach apocalypse theory are hateful liars.

You might want to re-read the last chapter in the New Testament, you know, the book that the Jewish faith doesn't recognize nor teach, but Christian priests and ministers do. That seems to make christians the hateful liars. It really doesn't get more apocalyptic than Revelations.

This bit has the real makings of a Michael Bay film...

Sixth Trumpet: The Second Woe (9:13–21)
- The four angels bound to the great river Euphrates are released to prepare two hundred million horsemen.
- These armies kill a third of mankind by plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone.

It's always funny what christians (or any religion with a 'book') like to pick and choose from the bible. Like, "Oh yeah, the bible is the word of God, oh, except for this, and that, and this too...Otherwise, it's all the word of God..Hold on for sec, oh yeah, but not this other part either...and that one too..."

Here, read this.

John obviously believed that the earth was flat, with corners, and that the stars were tiny pinpoints of light. He said he saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth. We know that his earth was flat because he said that every eye would see Jesus when he descended from the clouds. That can only happen on a flat earth.

So, if we are to believe John of Patmos, then you have to accept flat Earth theory even more than I do.

Moreover, the entire text appears to be written, not by "Christians" but by one of the the people Paul warned about.

Mark my words! I, Paul tell you that if you let yourself be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified through to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; what counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not afterward but before. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

The Letters talk about these false Christians in the early church pushing a doctrine of circumcision and salvation by works. Wild guess as to what Revelation teaches?

The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Yup, salvation by works. This is in conflict with not only what Paul says, but what Jesus preaches. Now some people think that Paul somehow departed from what Jesus taught (this is a shallow attempt to use the Gospel against itself). But what did Jesus say, when asked how to attain eternal life?

A rich man approached Jesus and asked how it is that he could attain eternal life. But the way that he phrased his question triggered a very interesting response. He asked, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” (Mark 10:17). Jesus replied, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”

Jesus called this man to consider the words that he used. He told him that nobody was good. If nobody is good, then nobody can merit eternal life with God. Then he listed the commandments. Perhaps this can be taken as a challenge to this man. Have you met this standard of righteousness and holiness? Do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not defraud, honor your father and mother (v. 19). This man claimed righteousness. He claimed to be precisely what Jesus just said that no man is. He claimed to be good (v. 20). But Jesus knew that he was lying, or deceiving himself. So he said that he still lacks perfection and told him to sell all of his possessions and give the money to the poor. He said this to show the man that he was unrighteous. He said this to expose sin to this man so that sin might become exceedingly sinful. This man wanted to know how to earn eternal life. Jesus told him that he must keep all of the commandments, be perfectly righteous, every day, from the time he is born, until the time he dies. He must never sin.

Obviously, it is impossible to keep the law from birth without mishap, but that's the point.

A Jewish friend of mine was talking about the Day of Atonement (which is today). He was talking about how this year, he had stayed away from porn. I told him that the spirit of the festival was to focus not on what he did but what he didn't do. This is the problem of the Jewish law. It doesn't actually hold salvation, it just gives a path for people to work hard in hopes of being saved (this doesn't mean the Jews are not saved, it means they have no clue how salvation works).

focus not on what he did but what he didn't do

lot of 'nots' and 'nos' there


The 10 Commandments
You shall have no other God's before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images. ...
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. ...
Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy. ...
Honor your father and mother. ...
Thou shalt not kill. ...
Thou shalt not commit adultery. ...
Thou shalt not steal.



also

he stayed away from porn
so he didn't do the jerking.
so he did the thing you said.

You don't get it. I arbitrarily gave him more rules to troll him.

The purpose of Christianity was not to abolish the law but to lead to freedom from the curse of the law.

I shall tell you a parable.

A man tells himself that because he is not religious, he does not have to live under the rules of religion. He is a secular leftist who cares about the environment and social justice
-All day long, he works to make enough money. He was told by his parents that he has to work hard to support himself, so no bullshit media influencer job for him.
- He is trying to earn the expensive cars and nice home that supposedly everyone wants. He wants to be rich and famous, because these things are important.
- He becomes a leader in some famous company (maybe he's Bill Gates or something). But none of his money or fame is enough.
-So, he tries donating to organizations, trying to influence social change. Is he donating enough to make up for his large income... and you know, being white?
-He not only tries to do alot of woke social justice things but flies around in a jet preaching about climate change. (Ironically, this jet does quite a bit of damage to the environment but he doesn't pay attention to this detail) Does he recycle enough? Does keep his carbon footprint low enough?

You notice the word "enough" getting used alot? You see, the curse of the law is that you can't just say you're not following the law and be free of it, any more than you can try to follow every rule.

You have to understand that the law is set up to be perfect, so that you will fail. Yes, that's insane. It's also scripture.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/curse-of-the-law.html

Here, read this.

Quote

John obviously believed that the earth was flat, with corners, and that the stars were tiny pinpoints of light. He said he saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth. We know that his earth was flat because he said that every eye would see Jesus when he descended from the clouds. That can only happen on a flat earth.

So, if we are to believe John of Patmos, then you have to accept flat Earth theory even more than I do.

Burch's entire treatise is about the hypocrisy and ridiculousness in the good book. Including the flat earth bit. So what's your point? Perhaps in a sentence or two instead of a tome.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 04, 2022, 02:31:45 PM

Here, read this.

Quote

John obviously believed that the earth was flat, with corners, and that the stars were tiny pinpoints of light. He said he saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth. We know that his earth was flat because he said that every eye would see Jesus when he descended from the clouds. That can only happen on a flat earth.

So, if we are to believe John of Patmos, then you have to accept flat Earth theory even more than I do.

Burch's entire treatise is about the hypocrisy and ridiculousness in the good book. Including the flat earth bit. So what's your point? Perhaps in a sentence or two instead of a tome.

Actually, the point is that it doesn't belong in anything called the good book.

While he repeatedly quotes Mark Twain, his point is not my point. More important was that Martin Luther and early church leaders questioned the text.

Revelation seems engineered to give ammo to Jews and atheists. "See? See?!? God is slaughtering and torturing people." No, I don't see. Because like Luther, I cannot find anything decent about this text. Luther eventually softened abour this ( or someone wrote his endorsement in his name), but I don't see there being any reason to do so. This text contradicts Christ's own mission to save the world not to condemn it (John 3:17, right after the "for God so loved the world" quote).

There is no evidence Jesus even existed other than the fables written about him.

Clear the muddle by clearing any mind of him. He never existed. Fables. That's all he amounts to.

Quote from: Stash on October 05, 2022, 12:33:03 AM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 04, 2022, 02:31:45 PM

Here, read this.

Quote

John obviously believed that the earth was flat, with corners, and that the stars were tiny pinpoints of light. He said he saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth. We know that his earth was flat because he said that every eye would see Jesus when he descended from the clouds. That can only happen on a flat earth.

So, if we are to believe John of Patmos, then you have to accept flat Earth theory even more than I do.

Burch's entire treatise is about the hypocrisy and ridiculousness in the good book. Including the flat earth bit. So what's your point? Perhaps in a sentence or two instead of a tome.

Actually, the point is that it doesn't belong in anything called the good book.

While he repeatedly quotes Mark Twain, his point is not my point. More important was that Martin Luther and early church leaders questioned the text.

Revelation seems engineered to give ammo to Jews and atheists. "See? See?!? God is slaughtering and torturing people." No, I don't see. Because like Luther, I cannot find anything decent about this text. Luther eventually softened abour this ( or someone wrote his endorsement in his name), but I don't see there being any reason to do so. This text contradicts Christ's own mission to save the world not to condemn it (John 3:17, right after the "for God so loved the world" quote).

I still don't know what your point is. Try and be clear and concise.

I don't know what Revelations has to do with Jews & Atheists. Neither regard the New Testament and last I check, Revelations is still in the Christian bible. I have no idea what you're going on about.

I don't know what Revelations has to do with Jews & Atheists.

Because it’s cool AF. 

As an atheist, I sometimes question what good religion has done.  Then I dig out the Omen DVD, or Raiders of the Lost Ark (more Old Testament) and think how much poorer we’d all be without it.

Without religion we wouldn't sacrifice millions of innocent people to please the gods.

blaming God for bad things that relgious zealots do in his name is like saying all taxation is theft because all gov't are corrupt.



the God is the Taxes.
just a function of existence.
it just is.

the implementation and collection of as done by the people in charge is the good or the bad.

blaming God for bad things that relgious zealots do in his name is like saying all taxation is theft because all gov't are corrupt.



the God is the Taxes.
just a function of existence.
it just is.

the implementation and collection of as done by the people in charge is the good or the bad.

Without Kabool, we wouldn't have a person who has 15 strokes a day.
KLJSLHLJHAHALHSHL

• When I say the name Jesus, what is it you say?

I just ignore you and go about my life.

Quote from: Stash on October 05, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

I don't know what Revelations has to do with Jews & Atheists.

Because it’s cool AF. 

As an atheist, I sometimes question what good religion has done.  Then I dig out the Omen DVD, or Raiders of the Lost Ark (more Old Testament) and think how much poorer we’d all be without it.

The best point anyone has made thus far.

Quote from: Unconvinced on October 05, 2022, 10:53:28 AM

Quote from: Stash on October 05, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

I don't know what Revelations has to do with Jews & Atheists.

Because it’s cool AF. 

As an atheist, I sometimes question what good religion has done.  Then I dig out the Omen DVD, or Raiders of the Lost Ark (more Old Testament) and think how much poorer we’d all be without it.

The best point anyone has made thus far.

But is it cool AF?

Look here, many apocalypse ideas seem cool when they're written out. Norse myth in particular is very metal.

But you wouldn't want to actually be living in such a reality. The equivalent of branding people in order to get them to use their income, excluding people who don't fall in line? That's the recipe for mass suffering. Think of the proposed plan to make only those who have vaccines able tobuy and sell. If even 10% of the people completely refuse to get a vaccine, this is 1 in 10 people that you're letting potentially go naked and starve to death.
The people who think this system is "cool AF" never realize that they are basically making it self-fulfilling prophecy. Only even that isn't all that self-fulfilled. Most small towns have now rejected the mandates, leaving only scattered woke businesses who try to enforce these standards, but even in places like New York, plans to make private businesses enforce masks have fallen apart, leaving just government workers. That is, not only is the Mark of the Beast in Revelation something that in real life is a major nuisance, but economically it doesn't pan out. People are working normally despite the plan to force everyone to conform.

But yes, I'm aware that in order for people to not like this on, I've gotta replace it with a better idea. We already have this depicted though. Watch Good Omens and My Girlfriend is a Gumiho. Instead of some bloody Second Coming and flashy war with heaven/hell, the truth is things are kinda business as usual. Jesus has come again, and those with eyes to see can see him whenever they want. I recommend the second to have an idea of what it is like dating a supernatural being.

The Bible repeatedly references that we humans  are basically divorced from God (in the most literal way possible). So Jesus dying on a cross was like a plan to start dating each other again. Better than trees with 12 flowers, rivers of blood, and forced branding of people. Yes, dating God is much better than those things, except for how it looks on the screen. But you can make a pretty badass fantasy romance too.

But is it cool AF?

Look here, many apocalypse ideas seem cool when they're written out. Norse myth in particular is very metal.

But you wouldn't want to actually be living in such a reality. The equivalent of branding people in order to get them to use their income, excluding people who don't fall in line? That's the recipe for mass suffering. Think of the proposed plan to make only those who have vaccines able tobuy and sell. If even 10% of the people completely refuse to get a vaccine, this is 1 in 10 people that you're letting potentially go naked and starve to death.
The people who think this system is "cool AF" never realize that they are basically making it self-fulfilling prophecy. Only even that isn't all that self-fulfilled. Most small towns have now rejected the mandates, leaving only scattered woke businesses who try to enforce these standards, but even in places like New York, plans to make private businesses enforce masks have fallen apart, leaving just government workers. That is, not only is the Mark of the Beast in Revelation something that in real life is a major nuisance, but economically it doesn't pan out. People are working normally despite the plan to force everyone to conform.

But yes, I'm aware that in order for people to not like this on, I've gotta replace it with a better idea. We already have this depicted though. Watch Good Omens and My Girlfriend is a Gumiho. Instead of some bloody Second Coming and flashy war with heaven/hell, the truth is things are kinda business as usual. Jesus has come again, and those with eyes to see can see him whenever they want. I recommend the second to have an idea of what it is like dating a supernatural being.

The Bible repeatedly references that we humans  are basically divorced from God (in the most literal way possible). So Jesus dying on a cross was like a plan to start dating each other again. Better than trees with 12 flowers, rivers of blood, and forced branding of people. Yes, dating God is much better than those things, except for how it looks on the screen. But you can make a pretty badass fantasy romance too.

Obviously, I don’t want it to happen, I don’t believe it will happen and didn’t think you did either from previous posts.  If a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns ever rises from the sea, I’ll start taking it seriously.  Until then there seems to be far more likely apocalyptic scenarios to worry about.

My comment was about the role of religion, particularly Christianity on my culture- Literature, art, architecture, film, etc.  plus traditions, holidays and all that.  Some atheists just think everything about religion is shit.  I don’t, as long as it doesn’t  interfere with people who don’t  share the beliefs.

The Omen is just a really good chilling horror story.  It only works by accepting the premise of course.  In real life, it would be the tale of a man convinced by a religious nut job that his son was the embodiment of evil based on pretty much no evidence at all, but that’s what suspension of disbelief is all about.

There’s no need to shoehorn your objections to vaccines and face masks into it.

Quote from: Stash on October 05, 2022, 10:18:41 PM

Quote from: Unconvinced on October 05, 2022, 10:53:28 AM

Quote from: Stash on October 05, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

I don't know what Revelations has to do with Jews & Atheists.

Because it’s cool AF. 

As an atheist, I sometimes question what good religion has done.  Then I dig out the Omen DVD, or Raiders of the Lost Ark (more Old Testament) and think how much poorer we’d all be without it.

The best point anyone has made thus far.

Yes, dating God is much better than those things, except for how it looks on the screen. But you can make a pretty badass fantasy romance too.

So many words and I still have no idea what you're going on about. Try to be more terse and actually make a point in as few nonsensical phrases as possible.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 07, 2022, 06:51:46 AM

But is it cool AF?

Look here, many apocalypse ideas seem cool when they're written out. Norse myth in particular is very metal.

But you wouldn't want to actually be living in such a reality. The equivalent of branding people in order to get them to use their income, excluding people who don't fall in line? That's the recipe for mass suffering. Think of the proposed plan to make only those who have vaccines able tobuy and sell. If even 10% of the people completely refuse to get a vaccine, this is 1 in 10 people that you're letting potentially go naked and starve to death.
The people who think this system is "cool AF" never realize that they are basically making it self-fulfilling prophecy. Only even that isn't all that self-fulfilled. Most small towns have now rejected the mandates, leaving only scattered woke businesses who try to enforce these standards, but even in places like New York, plans to make private businesses enforce masks have fallen apart, leaving just government workers. That is, not only is the Mark of the Beast in Revelation something that in real life is a major nuisance, but economically it doesn't pan out. People are working normally despite the plan to force everyone to conform.

But yes, I'm aware that in order for people to not like this on, I've gotta replace it with a better idea. We already have this depicted though. Watch Good Omens and My Girlfriend is a Gumiho. Instead of some bloody Second Coming and flashy war with heaven/hell, the truth is things are kinda business as usual. Jesus has come again, and those with eyes to see can see him whenever they want. I recommend the second to have an idea of what it is like dating a supernatural being.

The Bible repeatedly references that we humans  are basically divorced from God (in the most literal way possible). So Jesus dying on a cross was like a plan to start dating each other again. Better than trees with 12 flowers, rivers of blood, and forced branding of people. Yes, dating God is much better than those things, except for how it looks on the screen. But you can make a pretty badass fantasy romance too.

Obviously, I don’t want it to happen, I don’t believe it will happen and didn’t think you did either from previous posts.  If a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns ever rises from the sea, I’ll start taking it seriously.  Until then there seems to be far more likely apocalyptic scenarios to worry about.

My comment was about the role of religion, particularly Christianity on my culture- Literature, art, architecture, film, etc.  plus traditions, holidays and all that.  Some atheists just think everything about religion is shit.  I don’t, as long as it doesn’t  interfere with people who don’t  share the beliefs.

The Omen is just a really good chilling horror story.  It only works by accepting the premise of course.  In real life, it would be the tale of a man convinced by a religious nut job that his son was the embodiment of evil based on pretty much no evidence at all, but that’s what suspension of disbelief is all about.

There’s no need to shoehorn your objections to vaccines and face masks into it.

Yes there is. Ask alot of zealous Christians, they will point out the single letter difference between mark and mask, or how the mask is part of Babylonian worship. As for the vaccine, you could claim that it alters the DNA of the vaccinee (mRNA turns into DNA as it is metabolized) away from what God created us as into... something else. You could then draw parallels between that and mixing blood with angels as happened in Noah's Ark just prior to the flood.

The point is, if we accept Revelation (I no longer do), then everyone who wore the mask, everyone who jabbed up is doomed.

That's probably a lot of people.

Are you satisfied with that condemnation? No? Then it's time to reject Revelation as biblical literature.

Woweeeee

Does maRk maSk work across all lanuguages?
Or just english, you know english, "if it was good enough for Jesus its good enough for me" said that american one time in ref to mexicans and immigrants speaking other languages around him.

Then it's time to reject Revelation as biblical literature.

Do Christians get to pick and choose what they like? Basically choosing which words of God to believe and which to ignore?

Sure they do. It's called a canon.

Revelation self-imposed itself as canon, which is an immediate red flag that it is not.

Sure they do. It's called a canon.

Revelation self-imposed itself as canon, which is an immediate red flag that it is not.

How did Revelation "self-impose" itself? All books of the bible are supposedly canon.

Bumble is so sovereign he can sovereign the bible.