Poll

Why do you support Joe Biden?

He isn't Trump
He will defeat the corone!
He will reunite Americans
I am woke and want equality for all
I'm down with Kamala Harris as VP
I just want to see the look on Trumps face when he loses

Why do you support Joe Biden?

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1080 on: January 27, 2022, 01:14:49 PM »
There are people saying he should nominate Obama and the more I think about it, the more I like it.

OBAMA!

He would fake his own suicide to avoid that.

And if that didn't work he'd probably do it for real.

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1081 on: January 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM »
Jimmy Kimmel wants to nominate Anita Hill...     

I agree, she would look perfect sitting opposite Clarence Thomas.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1082 on: January 28, 2022, 07:18:38 AM »
aaaaaaaaaahaha

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1083 on: January 29, 2022, 01:08:55 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-pegasus-spyware.html

Here is a story which probably won't get a lot of coverage because it's something we just sort of thought our government does already.

Basically that super powerful Spyware that they can infect any phone by sending a text or whatever, the US government bought that.

But don't worry, we're only using to fight terrorism.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1084 on: January 29, 2022, 03:28:51 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-pegasus-spyware.html

Here is a story which probably won't get a lot of coverage because it's something we just sort of thought our government does already.

Basically that super powerful Spyware that they can infect any phone by sending a text or whatever, the US government bought that.

But don't worry, we're only using to fight terrorism.

This is why yours (and the rest of the 5 eyes) ultimately banned Huawei. Spying was the concern, yes. But not from the Chinese. America (and the others) wanted to be sure that IT could do it to IT'S own people.

Every time you talk on the phone, send a text, email or post on social media, thinking your settings are at max privacy - you must assume your government is watching - and there good precedence to believe it to be so (look what Edward Snowden uncovered).

That isn't freedom

At least in China, the citizens are well aware that everything they send is scanned and watched. Our governments play us for chumps

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markjo

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1085 on: January 30, 2022, 05:56:25 PM »
Jimmy Kimmel wants to nominate Anita Hill...     

I agree, she would look perfect sitting opposite Clarence Thomas.
Or on his lap.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1086 on: February 01, 2022, 10:31:49 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Themightykabool

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1087 on: February 01, 2022, 11:08:19 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

have a goal.
can't get anywhere without a goal.
like "zero accidents at work".
or "zero rapes in texas".

you need goals, incremental achievaable and measurable.


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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1088 on: February 01, 2022, 11:18:23 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

have a goal.
can't get anywhere without a goal.
like "zero accidents at work".
or "zero rapes in texas".

you need goals, incremental achievaable and measurable.

The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

Speed cameras will not stop accidents related to inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals. The fact that speed cameras generate millions of dollars in itself suggests that they dont stop all drivers from speeding.

Nothing gets a driver to pay attention more than seeing marked police cars patrolling the road. If they were interested in curbing the fatalities on the road, they would get more police in uniform and more patrol cars on the roads. But that costs money. A speed camera has a small initial cost and then a massive return on investment as the fines roll in

Dont get me wrong, I think they can be a net positive but only if they are placed in black spot areas and marked.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1089 on: February 01, 2022, 11:46:11 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

A lot of people see these cameras as just a way of generating revenue and not so much about safety.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1090 on: February 01, 2022, 11:47:43 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

A lot of people see these cameras as just a way of generating revenue and not so much about safety.

I cant blame them. Governments the world over, are not trustworthy. Still, if you dont speed.......

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

?

Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1091 on: February 01, 2022, 11:50:25 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

have a goal.
can't get anywhere without a goal.
like "zero accidents at work".
or "zero rapes in texas".

you need goals, incremental achievaable and measurable.

The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

Speed cameras will not stop accidents related to inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals. The fact that speed cameras generate millions of dollars in itself suggests that they dont stop all drivers from speeding.

Nothing gets a driver to pay attention more than seeing marked police cars patrolling the road. If they were interested in curbing the fatalities on the road, they would get more police in uniform and more patrol cars on the roads. But that costs money. A speed camera has a small initial cost and then a massive return on investment as the fines roll in

Dont get me wrong, I think they can be a net positive but only if they are placed in black spot areas and marked.


First off, if you have a goal of "redude it by X%" then you, as the federal transport representative, are saying "X% of people dying is ok" but only by a round about way.  And people will latch onto that and attack you for it.  By saying 0 goals, you'll fail, but you can say that you tried.

The second is that getting police officers and cars is certainly a thing that costs money but it also requires finding actual humans to do the job.  Police academy enrollment is down and the job is just a shitton of political baggage right now.

Plus you have the issue of officer safety.  Not every traffic stop ends with everyone alive at the end...

But you really don't need actual cameras.  You can put in fake cameras or just a box with a lense in it and a sign "Speed Camera".  Works just the same.
Gone.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1092 on: February 01, 2022, 11:55:38 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-health-business-transportation-67e41529c766edf0c2d7a2c12a377bb4

Americans losing their shit over the introduction of more speed cameras lol

I do note some BS unrealistic goal though
Quote
“Today we commit that our goal is this: zero. Our goal is zero deaths” from traffic, he said Thursday in announcing the national road safety strategy.

You will never get zero. Accidents happen. Speed is only one cause of fatalities. And to many people with a criminal mindset - they just dont give a fuck. Especially if they stole the car and the plates aren't even theirs

Zero deaths from traffic lol. Sure. ::)

If you guys are worried about getting pinged by these cameras, there's a really good way to get around them. Just dont speed ::). However if you do, just remember to smile for the camera 8)

have a goal.
can't get anywhere without a goal.
like "zero accidents at work".
or "zero rapes in texas".

you need goals, incremental achievaable and measurable.

The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

Speed cameras will not stop accidents related to inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals. The fact that speed cameras generate millions of dollars in itself suggests that they dont stop all drivers from speeding.

Nothing gets a driver to pay attention more than seeing marked police cars patrolling the road. If they were interested in curbing the fatalities on the road, they would get more police in uniform and more patrol cars on the roads. But that costs money. A speed camera has a small initial cost and then a massive return on investment as the fines roll in

Dont get me wrong, I think they can be a net positive but only if they are placed in black spot areas and marked.


First off, if you have a goal of "redude it by X%" then you, as the federal transport representative, are saying "X% of people dying is ok" but only by a round about way.  And people will latch onto that and attack you for it.  By saying 0 goals, you'll fail, but you can say that you tried.

The second is that getting police officers and cars is certainly a thing that costs money but it also requires finding actual humans to do the job.  Police academy enrollment is down and the job is just a shitton of political baggage right now.

Plus you have the issue of officer safety.  Not every traffic stop ends with everyone alive at the end...

But you really don't need actual cameras.  You can put in fake cameras or just a box with a lense in it and a sign "Speed Camera".  Works just the same.

Well you dont have to give a number. Just saying you want to reduce speeding related fatalities will ensure you can boast a win as long as the number goes down

Marked police cars are still the best in terms of getting drivers to adjust their attitude. Especially when they are driving next to one :) Of course, you need the bodies. And yeah, I guess in America, pulling over someone for speeding or having a busted tail light can end up with someone 6ft in the ground. Way to go America ::)

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Themightykabool

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1093 on: February 01, 2022, 12:29:59 PM »
zero rapes!

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boydster

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1094 on: February 01, 2022, 12:50:04 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1095 on: February 01, 2022, 01:05:19 PM »
does UK have happier or less happier people?


side note, we're all happy to have bezos and google people spying on us?


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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1096 on: February 01, 2022, 01:06:16 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

Orwellian sounds a bit over the top. It's a camera that takes photos of cars that are speeding. In 20 years of driving I've never been bothered by them. As long as the tolerance is fair (not get everyone going 1km/h over) then what's the problem. No one is forcing you to speed

Where I live, the tolerance is 10% (although they don't want to admit it). So you have to be doing 110km/h in a 100km/h zone or 66km/h in a 60 zone. Car speedometers usually always read faster. Sometimes as much as 10%. To be done with a speed camera, you have to know you're doing the wrong thing. And for fixed location speed cameras? Just slow down when you approach them if you like being a speed demon on the roads

Like I said, if the cameras sign posted are put in black spot locations that remind people to slow down in those areas, that's a good thing. Speed later where it's not as big of a deal ::)


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

boydster

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1097 on: February 01, 2022, 01:11:12 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

Orwellian sounds a bit over the top. It's a camera that takes photos of cars that are speeding. In 20 years of driving I've never been bothered by them. As long as the tolerance is fair (not get everyone going 1km/h over) then what's the problem. No one is forcing you to speed

Where I live, the tolerance is 10% (although they don't want to admit it). So you have to be doing 110km/h in a 100km/h zone or 66km/h in a 60 zone. Car speedometers usually always read faster. Sometimes as much as 10%. To be done with a speed camera, you have to know you're doing the wrong thing. And for fixed location speed cameras? Just slow down when you approach them if you like being a speed demon on the roads

Like I said, if the cameras sign posted are put in black spot locations that remind people to slow down in those areas, that's a good thing. Speed later where it's not as big of a deal ::)
You're putting a lot of trust in the powers that be not using those cameras for any other reason at all, while also giving control over to computers to decide if you've commited a crime or not. I don't think the comparison is over the top at all. Once we start handing responsibility over to computers to police us, the people selling those things look for ways to expand their offerings. That's the way of the business world - land & expand.

Why do we need computers to be police officers?

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1098 on: February 01, 2022, 01:23:30 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

Orwellian sounds a bit over the top. It's a camera that takes photos of cars that are speeding. In 20 years of driving I've never been bothered by them. As long as the tolerance is fair (not get everyone going 1km/h over) then what's the problem. No one is forcing you to speed

Where I live, the tolerance is 10% (although they don't want to admit it). So you have to be doing 110km/h in a 100km/h zone or 66km/h in a 60 zone. Car speedometers usually always read faster. Sometimes as much as 10%. To be done with a speed camera, you have to know you're doing the wrong thing. And for fixed location speed cameras? Just slow down when you approach them if you like being a speed demon on the roads

Like I said, if the cameras sign posted are put in black spot locations that remind people to slow down in those areas, that's a good thing. Speed later where it's not as big of a deal ::)
You're putting a lot of trust in the powers that be not using those cameras for any other reason at all, while also giving control over to computers to decide if you've commited a crime or not. I don't think the comparison is over the top at all. Once we start handing responsibility over to computers to police us, the people selling those things look for ways to expand their offerings. That's the way of the business world - land & expand.

Why do we need computers to be police officers?

It captures speeding. If you don't speed it doesn't take a happy snap. One could argue that devoting actual police to traffic is a waste of resources and their abilities and authority would be better utilised solving actual crimes. I dunno, I still like to see them on the road myself.

Other countries have had speed cameras for decades. Their speed detection is constantly checked and calibrated. By law your car out of the factory can not read slower than its real speed.

My only beef with the fines from traffic infringements is it penalises the poorer class much more. If you only earn $700 a week and you get a $300 fine, that would sting. But if you're an uber wealthy CEO earning millions a year, even the maximum speeding fine is not even pocket change.

Some countries do issue fines this way though. Good on em.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1099 on: February 01, 2022, 01:23:48 PM »
The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

This is a no win situation.  If they set a goal of 10 deaths per year people would say: "Why does the government want 10 people to die in car wrecks?"

I see nothing wrong with setting unachievable goals. Nobody thinks they are claiming they are going to actually reach zero, or are going to be upset when they don't.  And if someone is dumb enough to think the government is literally trying to reach zero deaths and when they don't get to zero are upset and angry, well, I personally don't care. People who get wound up about semantics will find SOMETHING to complain about no matter how it's phrased.

What concerns me are stoplight cameras. Those have been proven to INCREASE accidents and police deliberately shorten the yellow light timer to generate more revenue at the cost of lives.  If you want to fight something, try those.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1100 on: February 01, 2022, 01:31:34 PM »
The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

This is a no win situation.  If they set a goal of 10 deaths per year people would say: "Why does the government want 10 people to die in car wrecks?"

I see nothing wrong with setting unachievable goals. Nobody thinks they are claiming they are going to actually reach zero, or are going to be upset when they don't.  And if someone is dumb enough to think the government is literally trying to reach zero deaths and when they don't get to zero are upset and angry, well, I personally don't care. People who get wound up about semantics will find SOMETHING to complain about no matter how it's phrased.

What concerns me are stoplight cameras. Those have been proven to INCREASE accidents and police deliberately shorten the yellow light timer to generate more revenue at the cost of lives.  If you want to fight something, try those.

I said you don't need to give a number. Say you're installing speed cameras at black spot locations with the goal to reduce speed related accidents and fatalities

If year on year you see an upward trend in deaths and you install the cameras and the number is reduced, even a little, you can claim a win.

If your going to install a speed camera and say 'our goal is zero' not only are you setting yourself up to fail and be reminded of it every time someone dies, but you're taking your electorate for mugs. A speed camera wont solve deaths due to accidents, inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals who don't give a shit

Be honest and upfront. Trust for a politician is hard to come by and for good reason. The public are fed up and see straight through the bullshit spin and weasel words

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

boydster

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1101 on: February 01, 2022, 01:33:31 PM »
It captures speeding. If you don't speed it doesn't take a happy snap.
For now. As long as it doesn't malfunction. And as far as you know.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1102 on: February 01, 2022, 01:35:31 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

Orwellian sounds a bit over the top. It's a camera that takes photos of cars that are speeding. In 20 years of driving I've never been bothered by them. As long as the tolerance is fair (not get everyone going 1km/h over) then what's the problem. No one is forcing you to speed

Where I live, the tolerance is 10% (although they don't want to admit it). So you have to be doing 110km/h in a 100km/h zone or 66km/h in a 60 zone. Car speedometers usually always read faster. Sometimes as much as 10%. To be done with a speed camera, you have to know you're doing the wrong thing. And for fixed location speed cameras? Just slow down when you approach them if you like being a speed demon on the roads

Like I said, if the cameras sign posted are put in black spot locations that remind people to slow down in those areas, that's a good thing. Speed later where it's not as big of a deal ::)
You're putting a lot of trust in the powers that be not using those cameras for any other reason at all, while also giving control over to computers to decide if you've commited a crime or not. I don't think the comparison is over the top at all. Once we start handing responsibility over to computers to police us, the people selling those things look for ways to expand their offerings. That's the way of the business world - land & expand.

Why do we need computers to be police officers?

It captures speeding. If you don't speed it doesn't take a happy snap. One could argue that devoting actual police to traffic is a waste of resources and their abilities and authority would be better utilised solving actual crimes. I dunno, I still like to see them on the road myself.

Other countries have had speed cameras for decades. Their speed detection is constantly checked and calibrated. By law your car out of the factory can not read slower than its real speed.

My only beef with the fines from traffic infringements is it penalises the poorer class much more. If you only earn $700 a week and you get a $300 fine, that would sting. But if you're an uber wealthy CEO earning millions a year, even the maximum speeding fine is not even pocket change.

Some countries do issue fines this way though. Good on em.

The fine is relatively minor.  The problem is that you can only get so many moving violations before they suspend your license.
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1103 on: February 01, 2022, 01:44:08 PM »
The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

This is a no win situation.  If they set a goal of 10 deaths per year people would say: "Why does the government want 10 people to die in car wrecks?"

I see nothing wrong with setting unachievable goals. Nobody thinks they are claiming they are going to actually reach zero, or are going to be upset when they don't.  And if someone is dumb enough to think the government is literally trying to reach zero deaths and when they don't get to zero are upset and angry, well, I personally don't care. People who get wound up about semantics will find SOMETHING to complain about no matter how it's phrased.

What concerns me are stoplight cameras. Those have been proven to INCREASE accidents and police deliberately shorten the yellow light timer to generate more revenue at the cost of lives.  If you want to fight something, try those.

I said you don't need to give a number. Say you're installing speed cameras at black spot locations with the goal to reduce speed related accidents and fatalities

If year on year you see an upward trend in deaths and you install the cameras and the number is reduced, even a little, you can claim a win.

If your going to install a speed camera and say 'our goal is zero' not only are you setting yourself up to fail and be reminded of it every time someone dies, but you're taking your electorate for mugs. A speed camera wont solve deaths due to accidents, inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals who don't give a shit

Be honest and upfront. Trust for a politician is hard to come by and for good reason. The public are fed up and see straight through the bullshit spin and weasel words

I think you are vastly overestimating the number of people who care about these minor semantics or even notice.

I'm sure 99.999% of the population has no problem with seeing "goal of 0 deaths" and isn't confused or offended in the slightest.

You need a new hobby. :)

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1104 on: February 01, 2022, 01:59:06 PM »
It captures speeding. If you don't speed it doesn't take a happy snap.
For now. As long as it doesn't malfunction. And as far as you know.

The regulations regarding speed cameras and its use could fill a text book. It can't lawfully deviate from its prescribed purpose. Also they are constantly checked and calibrated. Are they 100% full proof? No. But you are open to challenge/dispute them. Are police officers full proof? Hell no. And they can only patrol and visibly see a tiny fraction of the traffic a day.

To be honest, I'd rather see a fine in my mailbox then deal with a Yankee policeman.

In 20 years I've never tripped up on a speed camera. And there are plenty in Canberra and the city is not very big. We have 13 fixed/red light cameras. 13 fixed cameras. 1 point to point camera and 8 mobile speed cameras vans

Just don't speed. Even if the aim is revenue raising, you won't get caught out if you don't speed

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1105 on: February 01, 2022, 02:01:48 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

Orwellian sounds a bit over the top. It's a camera that takes photos of cars that are speeding. In 20 years of driving I've never been bothered by them. As long as the tolerance is fair (not get everyone going 1km/h over) then what's the problem. No one is forcing you to speed

Where I live, the tolerance is 10% (although they don't want to admit it). So you have to be doing 110km/h in a 100km/h zone or 66km/h in a 60 zone. Car speedometers usually always read faster. Sometimes as much as 10%. To be done with a speed camera, you have to know you're doing the wrong thing. And for fixed location speed cameras? Just slow down when you approach them if you like being a speed demon on the roads

Like I said, if the cameras sign posted are put in black spot locations that remind people to slow down in those areas, that's a good thing. Speed later where it's not as big of a deal ::)
You're putting a lot of trust in the powers that be not using those cameras for any other reason at all, while also giving control over to computers to decide if you've commited a crime or not. I don't think the comparison is over the top at all. Once we start handing responsibility over to computers to police us, the people selling those things look for ways to expand their offerings. That's the way of the business world - land & expand.

Why do we need computers to be police officers?

I'd trust a computer over a person.
Computers do what they're programmed to do without bias.
People.... Don't.
A cop could pull me over for speeding regardless if I was speeding or not.  If I contest, thats another offence, possibly including being pulled from the car and arrested at gunpoint.

Meanwhile, a speed camera takes a picture and sends you a fine in the mail, which you can contest in traffic court.  And the machine's logs will tell the story. Its also much harder for most people to tamper with said logs to catch someone unjustly and if the software is written in a way to be unfair... Well, again, its evidence someone can follow up on as such things will show up in logs or decompiles.

The big issue you need to worry about are stoplight cams, as JJA said and cams in spots like at the bottom of hills where you naturally do over the speed limit since you haven't had time to slow down.


And if you are honestly afraid of such misuse, then you need to elect a new police chief for your area because cameras or not, they will misuse anything they have for whatever their goal is.
Gone.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1106 on: February 01, 2022, 02:08:48 PM »
The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

This is a no win situation.  If they set a goal of 10 deaths per year people would say: "Why does the government want 10 people to die in car wrecks?"

I see nothing wrong with setting unachievable goals. Nobody thinks they are claiming they are going to actually reach zero, or are going to be upset when they don't.  And if someone is dumb enough to think the government is literally trying to reach zero deaths and when they don't get to zero are upset and angry, well, I personally don't care. People who get wound up about semantics will find SOMETHING to complain about no matter how it's phrased.

What concerns me are stoplight cameras. Those have been proven to INCREASE accidents and police deliberately shorten the yellow light timer to generate more revenue at the cost of lives.  If you want to fight something, try those.

I said you don't need to give a number. Say you're installing speed cameras at black spot locations with the goal to reduce speed related accidents and fatalities

If year on year you see an upward trend in deaths and you install the cameras and the number is reduced, even a little, you can claim a win.

If your going to install a speed camera and say 'our goal is zero' not only are you setting yourself up to fail and be reminded of it every time someone dies, but you're taking your electorate for mugs. A speed camera wont solve deaths due to accidents, inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals who don't give a shit

Be honest and upfront. Trust for a politician is hard to come by and for good reason. The public are fed up and see straight through the bullshit spin and weasel words

I think you are vastly overestimating the number of people who care about these minor semantics or even notice.

I'm sure 99.999% of the population has no problem with seeing "goal of 0 deaths" and isn't confused or offended in the slightest.

You need a new hobby. :)

My apologies. Then you really are a bunch of mugs that would believe some speed cameras will save a guy whose worked a double shift from fallimg asleep at the wheel and ending up dead in a ditch.

I guess the say that because you'd believe it.

'zero deaths is the goal' is just word play. A reduction of deaths is the aim

If zero deaths really was the goal they would ban cars and driving. Because that's the only way you can get there

Perhaps yanks are used to hearing fluff and spin from their pollies. Or maybe your pollies are better salesmen. Our shitty Aussie politicians try the spin but it just makes the public more annoyed lol

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

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boydster

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1107 on: February 01, 2022, 02:40:00 PM »
The idea of policing people using cameras seems more than a little Orwellian to me. Why not just mount those cameras to things that can move? What if the moving-police-thing-with-cameras also carries around handcuffs and is connected to an AI so it can make decisions about whether it thinks you've committed a crime and then arrest you? Is this really the way we want to use technology to build a better future?

Orwellian sounds a bit over the top. It's a camera that takes photos of cars that are speeding. In 20 years of driving I've never been bothered by them. As long as the tolerance is fair (not get everyone going 1km/h over) then what's the problem. No one is forcing you to speed

Where I live, the tolerance is 10% (although they don't want to admit it). So you have to be doing 110km/h in a 100km/h zone or 66km/h in a 60 zone. Car speedometers usually always read faster. Sometimes as much as 10%. To be done with a speed camera, you have to know you're doing the wrong thing. And for fixed location speed cameras? Just slow down when you approach them if you like being a speed demon on the roads

Like I said, if the cameras sign posted are put in black spot locations that remind people to slow down in those areas, that's a good thing. Speed later where it's not as big of a deal ::)
You're putting a lot of trust in the powers that be not using those cameras for any other reason at all, while also giving control over to computers to decide if you've commited a crime or not. I don't think the comparison is over the top at all. Once we start handing responsibility over to computers to police us, the people selling those things look for ways to expand their offerings. That's the way of the business world - land & expand.

Why do we need computers to be police officers?

I'd trust a computer over a person.
Computers do what they're programmed to do without bias.
People.... Don't.
A cop could pull me over for speeding regardless if I was speeding or not.  If I contest, thats another offence, possibly including being pulled from the car and arrested at gunpoint.

Meanwhile, a speed camera takes a picture and sends you a fine in the mail, which you can contest in traffic court.  And the machine's logs will tell the story. Its also much harder for most people to tamper with said logs to catch someone unjustly and if the software is written in a way to be unfair... Well, again, its evidence someone can follow up on as such things will show up in logs or decompiles.

The big issue you need to worry about are stoplight cams, as JJA said and cams in spots like at the bottom of hills where you naturally do over the speed limit since you haven't had time to slow down.


And if you are honestly afraid of such misuse, then you need to elect a new police chief for your area because cameras or not, they will misuse anything they have for whatever their goal is.
You're missing the point, which is that when you remove the people from that function, you are removing the personal responsibility and accountability. And that's to say nothing of the fact that literally no one should want to live in a nanny state where your every move is subject to government/police oversight.

Remove the people, and you remove the accountability. You think that Boston Dynamics robot dog is just for fun things like finding bombs and peeing beer into glasses? It's loaded up with sensors and uses some pretty impressive pieces of tech to analyze the world around it and make decisions about how to interact with the world based on that info. And it's absolutely being entertained for use as an assistant soldier. There are bipedal versions being tested as well, and if you don't think those will be designed to carry weapons then you aren't thinking like a defense contractor. Where do all those military toys go when it's time to refresh the equipment again?

Introducing robots into police work is a mistake we are going to look back on and wonder how we were blind enough not to see ahead of time. Especially in the US, where we will inevitably give them weapons and the ability to use lethal force. We're flirting with this future already.

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1108 on: February 01, 2022, 02:46:36 PM »
The fataliy rates have been climbing (apparently). Have a goal to reduce the deaths 'related to speeding' but dont bullshit the public into thinking speed cameras can bring about a zero fatality year. Goals should be attainable and within the realm of possibility

This is a no win situation.  If they set a goal of 10 deaths per year people would say: "Why does the government want 10 people to die in car wrecks?"

I see nothing wrong with setting unachievable goals. Nobody thinks they are claiming they are going to actually reach zero, or are going to be upset when they don't.  And if someone is dumb enough to think the government is literally trying to reach zero deaths and when they don't get to zero are upset and angry, well, I personally don't care. People who get wound up about semantics will find SOMETHING to complain about no matter how it's phrased.

What concerns me are stoplight cameras. Those have been proven to INCREASE accidents and police deliberately shorten the yellow light timer to generate more revenue at the cost of lives.  If you want to fight something, try those.

I said you don't need to give a number. Say you're installing speed cameras at black spot locations with the goal to reduce speed related accidents and fatalities

If year on year you see an upward trend in deaths and you install the cameras and the number is reduced, even a little, you can claim a win.

If your going to install a speed camera and say 'our goal is zero' not only are you setting yourself up to fail and be reminded of it every time someone dies, but you're taking your electorate for mugs. A speed camera wont solve deaths due to accidents, inattention, fatigue, drink driving or criminals who don't give a shit

Be honest and upfront. Trust for a politician is hard to come by and for good reason. The public are fed up and see straight through the bullshit spin and weasel words

I think you are vastly overestimating the number of people who care about these minor semantics or even notice.

I'm sure 99.999% of the population has no problem with seeing "goal of 0 deaths" and isn't confused or offended in the slightest.

You need a new hobby. :)

My apologies. Then you really are a bunch of mugs that would believe some speed cameras will save a guy whose worked a double shift from fallimg asleep at the wheel and ending up dead in a ditch.

I guess the say that because you'd believe it.

'zero deaths is the goal' is just word play. A reduction of deaths is the aim

If zero deaths really was the goal they would ban cars and driving. Because that's the only way you can get there

Perhaps yanks are used to hearing fluff and spin from their pollies. Or maybe your pollies are better salesmen. Our shitty Aussie politicians try the spin but it just makes the public more annoyed lol

Most people just don't give a crap about silly pedantic arguments, and just simply understand what "goal of 0 deaths" means.

I doubt even most English majors would get worked up about it, or care to debate it at all.

Anyway, if you're that upset about it why don't you clean up your own house first. :)

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-foundation-targets-zero-breast-cancer-d

Or check out how Sweden managed to pull off one of the most successful reduction in traffic deaths with their Vision Zero policy.  They said zero.  They didn't get to literally zero but they all seem pretty happy about it.  Go figure.

http://www.welivevisionzero.com/vision-zero/


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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden?
« Reply #1109 on: February 01, 2022, 07:52:28 PM »
Whatever man, I know when political spin is being used. Enjoy the fluffy marketing

Also things like breast cancer deaths (and other zero death i itiatives like toddlers drowning in backyard pools) is possible.

There are a plethora of reasons people die on the roads which is inherently full of risk and speed cameras only address one reason (and judging by the fines they rake in, aren't very good at doing that)

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place