Upwards shadow at clouds from a mountain

Hi,

Is this fake or not?
https://imgur.com/pBlV3tL

The question of whether it's fake or not is of secondary importance.

Let's assume the photos are undoctored. The question is whether it's the only explanation possible.

You've shown two photos, along with a diagram. Is this the situation that happens in all cases or is it a rare anomaly?









These are images and explanations. The question is not whether they're fake, but under what circumstances they occur.

Does your mountain shadow happen all the time, every day, at all places? Probably not, or you would say "like you see every day." What is the assurance that your mountain shadow is not a rare event that only happens under certain circumstances, and that the straight lines in the diagrams are accurate, and not curved as with mirages?

Does your mountain shadow happen all the time, every day, at all places? Probably not, or you would say "like you see every day." What is the assurance that your mountain shadow is not a rare event that only happens under certain circumstances, and that the straight lines in the diagrams are accurate, and not curved as with mirages?

I would have thought these were different phenomena. shadows and mirages, while both involving light, are very different things.

These are likely real.
It is a quite common occurrence. Depending on where you live you can do the same with a much simpler setup of a vertical wall with a horizontal bar sticking out.
At sunrise and sunset you can see the shadow going upwards and it will be a daily occurrence. This shows it isn't just an issue with mirages or the like.

I would have thought these were different phenomena. shadows and mirages, while both involving light, are very different things.

Both involve light curving upwards.
The idea is that the light curves upwards just like in a mirage. This light then continues upwards where some is obstructed by the mountain, causing the shadow.

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on May 15, 2019, 11:13:25 AM

Does your mountain shadow happen all the time, every day, at all places? Probably not, or you would say "like you see every day." What is the assurance that your mountain shadow is not a rare event that only happens under certain circumstances, and that the straight lines in the diagrams are accurate, and not curved as with mirages?

I would have thought these were different phenomena. shadows and mirages, while both involving light, are very different things.

You ask, "Does your mountain shadow happen all the time, every day, at all places?" It does not happen at "all places" but does occur predictably at places like Mt Rainier.

Photos like that video require a suitable mountain and a cloud layer. Other cases, where the shadow is cast onto a mountain occur regularly.
This video shows some examples of shadows shining upwards onto mountains, starting at about 3:25:

lat Earth Can't Science 8 Show Me the Rotation by Bob the Science Guy

I noticed that your signature is "Mark Sargent is bae" so another video by Bob the Science Guy might be of interest:

Eric Dubay Attacks Flat Earth- Mark Sargent by Bob the Science Guy

Even without a mountain, if you just have clouds you can see them lit from underneath at sunset. This happens year round and doesn't matter where you might be.

Even without a mountain, if you just have clouds you can see them lit from underneath at sunset. This happens year round and doesn't matter where you might be.

This sort of thing:

Clouds lit on the underside before sunrise

Sun's rays shining up on clouds before sunrise

Clouds lit from underneath near Toogoolawah at Sunset

Clouds lit on the underside before sunrise

True, this is more often visible.

@Curiouser and Curiouser
Mirages are caused by large temperature differences in the air caused by e.g. a hot street or sand in the desert. But Between the ground and the clouds there are no such strong temperature gradients.

Also, in a mirage air turbulence causes this "flickering", you probably have seen by yourself.
But the clouds lit from below don't show this flickering.

About the flying boat, is this real? Can some one explain the physics behind this? I couldn't find it.
Thanks 

About the flying boat, is this real? Can some one explain the physics behind this? I couldn't find it.

It is similar to how mirages work (as it is a type of mirage). There is a layer of air which refracts the light downwards making the object appear much higher.
There is a layer below that which distorts the view making the sea look like the sky.
It usually isn't that perfect.

If you are happy with the car one, just picture that blurry part between the cars and the clear road as on the sea and too blurry to make out as part of the sea.

It is similar to how mirages work (as it is a type of mirage). There is a layer of air which refracts the light downwards making the object appear much higher.

Since you have agreed air can downwards objects so it is an agreement you have agreed air can downward onject causes you feel the ship disappear in the horizon.

case closed, the earth is flat. not get shut up.

Since you have agreed air can downwards objects

Do you understand what HIGHER means?
Higher means upwards, not downwards.
Refraction makes objects appear higher, not lower.


The simple fact that light shining upwards from the sun is a very common occurrence shows the promoted FE models are wrong.

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:02:10 AM

Since you have agreed air can downwards objects

Do you understand what HIGHER means?
Higher means upwards, not downwards.
Refraction makes objects appear higher, not lower.

The simple fact that light shining upwards from the sun is a very common occurrence shows the promoted FE models are wrong.

Get do stop do deny yourself, whether if causes to deny me.

It is similar to how mirages work (as it is a type of mirage). There is a layer of air which refracts the light downwards making the object appear much higher.

Case closed. Do not fight with yourself because I can not break up the fight between you and yourself.

Case closed. Do not fight with yourself because I can not break up the fight between you and yourself.

Yes, case closed. You are either have no idea what you are talking about and don't understand English or you are a pathetic troll.

Bending light downwards makes things appear higher.

So that doesn't explain why ships disappear below the horizon.

In order to have clouds be illuminated from below while the sun is above them, or otherwise have the sun illuminate objects from below (which is what the OP was about) you need to have the light bend upwards.

Do you understand the difference?

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 01:11:55 AM

Case closed. Do not fight with yourself because I can not break up the fight between you and yourself.

Yes, case closed. You are either have no idea what you are talking about and don't understand English or you are a pathetic troll.

Bending light downwards makes things appear higher.

So that doesn't explain why ships disappear below the horizon.

In order to have clouds be illuminated from below while the sun is above them, or otherwise have the sun illuminate objects from below (which is what the OP was about) you need to have the light bend upwards.

Do you understand the difference?

I already know the diffefrence I have just put forwarded I did not say its being downside and you've claimed you said downside. I show you what you say. Anyways. I know where is light bended. Light bends to the upside when crashed a more heavy environment. So that, light bends to the upside shows the sun and other objects seems in downside ie sinking. As how I forcing to write English it is hard to me, you have to live same hardeness to get them. Conditions are equal, stop tocry and prove your childish baseless claims.

I already know the diffefrence

Then why were you lying about it and lying about me?
Light being bent downwards by the atmosphere does not make objects appear lower, and thus it cannot explain why objects are obscured by the horizon.

Light bends to the upside

Only under rare circumstances and with extreme distortion. As such, it cannot explain why the sun is casting light upwards on a daily basis.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:52:57 AM

I already know the diffefrence

Then why were you lying about it and lying about me?
Light being bent downwards by the atmosphere does not make objects appear lower, and thus it cannot explain why objects are obscured by the horizon.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:52:57 AM

Light bends to the upside

Only under rare circumstances and with extreme distortion. As such, it cannot explain why the sun is casting light upwards on a daily basis.

I told you I did not told it especially prove or disprove anything. I have just told how your being a liar. It was downside and you have used the term of upside. Surely, they were different cases and you're combined them. Combining opposite arguments makes it harder to explain in your side, like this example. So I have suggest you be less liar on issues. It can be more understandable then. Because constantly triyng to produce more lies are making you ridiculus because of intersections of lies.

In short, it explains why we see sun as rising or setting. You may tell it randomly or rarely but theorically it is exsit and I can use it till it is possible at least theorically. I am a scientist, I respect the science, oppositely you aren't.

I told you I did not told it

And you repeating that lie wont help you.
Again, to remind you:

air can downward onject causes you feel the ship disappear in the horizon.

The air causes the light to bend downwards making objects appear higher.
As such that doesn't explain why objects disappear as they go over the horizon.

You are only proving yourself to be a liar.

In short, it explains why we see sun as rising or setting.

What does?
You are yet to provide any explanation.

And stop lying.
You are not a scientist. You do not respect science.
You repeatedly spit in its face and reject it as a lie.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 05:09:35 AM

In short, it explains why we see sun as rising or setting.

What does?
You are yet to provide any explanation.

And stop lying.
You are not a scientist. You do not respect science.
You repeatedly spit in its face and reject it as a lie.

Your insults can not change the fact that I am the only one here respect the science. You are just insulting but can not prove anything against me, but continue to claim that shamessly. Your shamessly insults can not prove anything magically.

Light bend causes you see the sun rising or setting. What do you need more explanation. Do you deny the light bend? Do you have a problem of understanding?

Light bend causes you see the sun rising or setting. What do you need more explanation.

I need an explaination for why refraction of light by the atmosphere, on a daily basis causes the light to bend upwards rather than downwards.
Light bending downwards makes the sun appear higher, not lower. That means that it makes it harder for the sun to set.

Quote from: wise on June 11, 2019, 02:07:48 AM

Light bend causes you see the sun rising or setting. What do you need more explanation.

I need an explaination for why refraction of light by the atmosphere, on a daily basis causes the light to bend upwards rather than downwards.
Light bending downwards makes the sun appear higher, not lower. That means that it makes it harder for the sun to set.

Okay. My door is open ignorants want to be learn something from scientists always.

Sun child seems not around. 

Quote from: Zaggy@sonnenkinder.org on February 25, 2019, 05:13:00 PM

Thanks for answering. I can see that.
But how does the sunrise and sunset work when the sun really is always above me?

refraction index of light in dense air.



Air near the earth acts like a light water, because of being heavy than above air. So that, follow the following image. Right here:

If you need further knowledge we can talk about it.



So much so that I don't see those images but I sent them by estimate.

Okay. My door is open ignorants want to be learn something from scientists always.

If you want to educate people, make sure you are correct.
Here is the correct diagram:

The red line is the path of the light and thus also the direction the object appears to be.
However the orange line is the direct line to the object.
This means the light being bent downwards makes the object appear higher.

Your diagram has people seeing it when no light goes there.

<BS deleted>

I don't see images except uploaded to THIS website. I did post it because you wanted to see, not as a main argument. Have you any other questions those you forgot to ask your teachers in kindergarden?

I don't see images except uploaded to THIS website.

I don't give a damn.
I have no intention of using some random site just because you want me to.
If you can't see the image it is your problem.
My argument stands without the picture. If the light is bent downwards, this means it will be coming towards you from a higher angle and thus the object will appear higher, not lower.
As such, this cannot explain why objects to disappear below the horizon (including why the sun sets), nor can it explain why clouds (and other objects) are illuminated from below.

Have you any other questions those you forgot to ask your teachers in kindergarden?

I didn't forget to ask teachers.
I just have the same questions you have failed to address.
How does the sun illuminate the bottom of clouds when it is above it?
How does the sun cast a shadow upwards, but below the sun?

The air bending light downwards is not going to help you here.

Here we have diagram that shows where we see things with and without refraction.

Upper half shows the case where the substances above and below the surface S are equally transparent.
They have same refraction index.

As you can see the ray 1 continues along the path A, ray 2 along path B and ray 3 along path C.
Ray 2 hits observer's eye E and observer sees object O at the same location V.

Lower half shows the case where lower substance has higher refraction index and at the surface S light refracts downward.

Ray 1 continues along NEW path A, ray 2 along NEW path B and ray 3 along NEW path C.
This time ray 2 doesn't hit observer's eye E.
Now observer's eye has been hit by the ray 1 from the NEW path A, and observer sees the object O at the NEW location V.

That way we demonstarted how bending light downward makes observer see objects higher.

Quote from: wise on June 11, 2019, 03:39:54 AM

I don't see images except uploaded to THIS website.

I don't give a damn. care.

Do not swear me. Whenever I reply your swears then moderator boydsterinoz is baning me.

You don't care problems I lived because of your friends so I don't care your thoughts. >It is a problem with here?

Here we have diagram that shows where we see things with and without refraction.

Upper half shows the case where the substances above and below the surface S are equally transparent.
They have same refraction index.

As you can see the ray 1 continues along the path A, ray 2 along path B and ray 3 along path C.
Ray 2 hits observer's eye E and observer sees object O at the same location V.

Lower half shows the case where lower substance has higher refraction index and at the surface S light refracts downward.

Ray 1 continues along NEW path A, ray 2 along NEW path B and ray 3 along NEW path C.
This time ray 2 doesn't hit observer's eye E.
Now observer's eye has been hit by the ray 1 from the NEW path A, and observer sees the object O at the NEW location V.

That way we demonstarted how bending light downward makes observer see objects higher.

Sorry. our gov has forbidded the tinypic in our office. this website I want to remind is one of few upload websites is still working. May you upload it here?

Sorry. our gov has forbidded the tinypic in our office. this website I want to remind is one of few upload websites is still working. May you upload it here?

Again, you don't need the image to understand it.
The light is bent downwards, so the object appears higher.
This means refraction of light downwards due to the air cannot explain why objects are obscured by the horizon. Instead it would make it harder for objects to be obscured by the horizon.
This also means that refraction of light downwards by the air cannot explain why objects below the sun are illuminated from below.

Sorry. our gov has forbidded the tinypic in our office. this website I want to remind is one of few upload websites is still working. May you upload it here?

I will need to learn how to use that site. Let's see if this works:




EDIT: I can see the image, I hope you can see it too.
This site is easier than TinyPic, no need to enter tags or prove you're not a robot.
(https://resimyukle.xyz/)
Just click inside the right rectangle, select the image, copy second link (Direct link).
I like it.
Thanks.

I like it.
Thanks.

You like it more now. 

Please do not forget to add the dome affection.

Please do not forget to add the dome affection.

Only if you can show the dome is real.

Even then all you manage to do is get it to come back into the same direction. That isn't going to cause a cloud (or any object) to be illuminated from below while the sun is above.
Nor is it going to make the sun set.
So you still have the same problems.

Quote from: wise on June 14, 2019, 12:55:22 AM

Please do not forget to add the dome affection.

Only if you can show the dome is real.

Even then all you manage to do is get it to come back into the same direction. That isn't going to cause a cloud (or any object) to be illuminated from below while the sun is above.
Nor is it going to make the sun set.
So you still have the same problems.

Nice try. But you made a mentality mistake. The explanation is already made depends on flat earth dome model. What was your expection about it, does it has to include space, instead of flat earth dome?