Why no proof of Flat Earth?

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it? Surely someone could get a video camera tied to a weather balloon and record its flight upwards? Whenever this has been done by random people with no ties to governments or conspiracies it shows a round spherical Earth.

All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q. It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you and you have somehow broken the hold of this evil conspiracy and indoctrination but still no real photographic evidence or irrefutable proof the Earth is flat or Antarctica being nothing more than a supposed Ice Wall. How high is this wall?

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it? Surely someone could get a video camera tied to a weather balloon and record its flight upwards? Whenever this has been done by random people with no ties to governments or conspiracies it shows a round spherical Earth.

All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q. It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you and you have somehow broken the hold of this evil conspiracy and indoctrination but still no real photographic evidence or irrefutable proof the Earth is flat or Antarctica being nothing more than a supposed Ice Wall. How high is this wall?

That's easy to answer! Dedicated Flat Earthers do not believe that any proof is needed. Lust look at this entry in the Wiki.

Place of the Conspiracy in FET

The existence of 'The Conspiracy' is a consequence of the FET. Virtually no one begins with 'The Conspiracy' and develops a belief in the Flat Earth Theory. Flat Earthers starts with the knowledge that the earth is flat, as they believe that all the evidence which they are personally able to collect and verify confirms this fact. As a consequence all the evidence to the contrary, much of which they are unable to personally test/verify is viewed as being false. The existence of such a huge quantity of false information indicates the existence of the conspiracy.

Essentially the reasoning boils down to -

P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
P2) The FET (Flat Earth Theory) is an obvious truth
P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET

C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET is fabricated evidence

P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it
P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)

C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.

From THE FLAT EARTH Wiki, Place of the Conspiracy in FET.

Just note "There is personally unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET" and "The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET is fabricated evidence".

Anything that you come up with that they cannot (or will not) personally verify can be deemed "fabricated evidence".

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it? Surely someone could get a video camera tied to a weather balloon and record its flight upwards? Whenever this has been done by random people with no ties to governments or conspiracies it shows a round spherical Earth.

All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q. It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you and you have somehow broken the hold of this evil conspiracy and indoctrination but still no real photographic evidence or irrefutable proof the Earth is flat or Antarctica being nothing more than a supposed Ice Wall. How high is this wall?

How do you know there is no connection?

It is ridiculous to assert that such a conspiracy is able to be maintained between millions of people and every government on the planet. Some who are sworn enemies. No Flat Earther has ever given a decent shred of evidence to back up their assumptions except by some pseudo science (or 'alternative science' lol) you bring/make up. Nothing ever brought to the table here actually stacks up

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong. The idea that there is some strange world order run by some reptilian race all indoctrinating us to believe the earth is round when it is really flat but of course being 'flat earthers' we know the truth!!!! Certainly has a romantic flair and flirting with danger but the truth is far more boring. It's round. You assert it is flat in the face of overwhelming and irrefutable evidence. Prove it. Besides, If this was flat that would mean another side. Might as well be a different planet. I'm sure governments would be keen to see and exploit the other side of the Earth.

But I bet next thing you people will tell me the Earth is hollow to and there is an advanced race inside. I guess the Moon is an illusion, faked by the governments too? I've seen those nutters around on the internet

How do you know there is no connection?

Prove the earth is a sphere.

Less talk more action.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong.

One time I went into Bed Bath and Beyond.
I didn't get it. High prices for stuff I didn't understand.

I didn't start challenging random shoppers to defend their patronage.

I just left.

Your problem was going into Bed, Bath & Beyond and expecting to find a reasonable prices!!

But your analogy is pretty weird in any case. This is an open forum that invites ideas and debate. If people don't agree with the conspiracy this forum perpetuates, there is nothing wrong with them challenging it. Or do you only want this place to be filled with people that subscribe to your world view?

Of course not, however you are yet to present an argument for a spherical earth.

This is not a debate this is you saying "Nuh-uh" that is a pet peeve of mine.

Conversely Flat Earthers have yet to prove anything tangible on their theory. There is nothing I can put to you on a forum that any of you will consider 'evidence' so its a pointless exercise and besides, you just refute it with your 'Alternative Science' and apparently even though your claims don't even stack up, its evidence enough for you. There is plenty of math and science or even real world things you can do to prove the earth is not flat. You just don't look, don't want to believe because you yourself didn't figure it out (and you want to be the only one 'right' in the room).

You flat earthers don't even believe in a single satellite above the earth despite the fact you can communicate and watch TV etc because of them. Even the fact you can see them and the ISS at night you still want the wool over your eyes then to see the hard and boring truth. Don't ask me for evidence. The evidence is all around if you only bothered to look up once in a while and think with any rational logic. The onus is on you to come up with real tangible evidence for your outlandish and ridiculous theories.

You supposedly want people to believe in your make believe, but then come up empty when they want proof.

And all your maps, modelling and 'Alternative Science' theories is all rubbish. The sad thing is, why some of you may be trolling, others probably really believe it and actually need real help.

Of course not, however you are yet to present an argument for a spherical earth.

This is not a debate this is you saying "Nuh-uh" that is a pet peeve of mine.

To be fair, the OP asked for FE evidence. To ask where is his evidence for a spherical Earth is not really answering his question. Granted, we've all heard the same question over˛, and I totally see why it becomes tiring.

To be fair, the OP asked for FE evidence. To ask where is his evidence for a spherical Earth is not really answering his question. Granted, we've all heard the same question over˛, and I totally see why it becomes tiring.

Actually, to be fair the OP cannot make the distinction between the definitions of the words evidence and proof.

That much is apparent.

Quote from: IonSpen on March 23, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

To be fair, the OP asked for FE evidence. To ask where is his evidence for a spherical Earth is not really answering his question. Granted, we've all heard the same question over˛, and I totally see why it becomes tiring.

Actually, to be fair the OP cannot make the distinction between the definitions of the words evidence and proof.

That much is apparent.

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

In other words, you have no answers.

But I have noticed this so often.

All flat earthers ever do is to try to demolish the globe, when there is no single workable Flat Earth Model to replace it.

If the was this one magic "Flat Earth", why would we have:

• JRoweSkeptic and his Dual Earth Theory:
  He tries (but only part succeeds) to get a better match for real world distances. Then adding so many other assumptions that it becomes quite unworkable.
  
  
• Sandokhan and Tom Bishop with the Bipolar Map:
  They recognise the reality of the South Pole, the stupidity
  of Antarctica being a massive ring around the earth and
  of the quite unrealistic East-West distances, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, on the usual AEP map.
  
  
• So many explanations for gravity and gravitation:
  John Davis with Newtonian Gravitation needed to support his Infinite Flat Earth. SCG appears to support this.
  Then sceptimatic pushes his denpressure that in the end explains nothing.
  Finally here and more so at TFES.org some still seem push Universal Acceleration.
  
  
• And finally there's İntikam with his "explanations" for everything.

But none of these explains much of what I see by simple observation.

To top it off Gotham posts every so often how the "flat earth is taking the whole world" and soon everyone will accept "the truth".

A certain image of pigs flying does come to mind!

So Mr Totallackey,
It really is a case of, "Will the real flat earth please stand up".

The issue I see here is that for logical round-Earthers, it's illogical to debate with a group of people who's strongest defense is their rejection of reality.  The instant a flat-Earther says something along the lines of "it's a conspiracy" then the argument is over.  "We already know that the Earth is flat" is the same way.  It's unarguable.  It's impossible to confirm to be true or disprove.  The only way that you can persuade someone to change their mind is if the person is willing to change their mind.  In this case, the flat-Earthers are the people who decided that their mind wouldn't be changed by their 1st grade class, or any other information.  The denial of reality is an impenetrable defense, which is why no flat-Earther has ever said "You're right, the earth is round."

The only reason I'm here is to write a paper for my physics class, and to see how creative people can be when making up excuses to why we can see satellites even though they apparently don't exist.

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it? Surely someone could get a video camera tied to a weather balloon and record its flight upwards? Whenever this has been done by random people with no ties to governments or conspiracies it shows a round spherical Earth.

All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q. It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you and you have somehow broken the hold of this evil conspiracy and indoctrination but still no real photographic evidence or irrefutable proof the Earth is flat or Antarctica being nothing more than a supposed Ice Wall. How high is this wall?

Because if you try to prove the Earth is flat, the secret world government organization protecting us from knowing the Earth is flat would imprison you. Proving the Earth is flat would be incredibly easy. They can't even get a map that makes any sense.

Quote from: totallackey on March 23, 2017, 01:17:22 PM

Quote from: IonSpen on March 23, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

To be fair, the OP asked for FE evidence. To ask where is his evidence for a spherical Earth is not really answering his question. Granted, we've all heard the same question over˛, and I totally see why it becomes tiring.

Actually, to be fair the OP cannot make the distinction between the definitions of the words evidence and proof.

That much is apparent.

Quote from: Shifter on March 21, 2017, 04:34:59 PM

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

In other words, you have no answers.

But I have noticed this so often.

All flat earthers ever do is to try to demolish the globe, when there is no single workable Flat Earth Model to replace it.

If the was this one magic "Flat Earth", why would we have:

• JRoweSkeptic and his Dual Earth Theory:
  He tries (but only part succeeds) to get a better match for real world distances. Then adding so many other assumptions that it becomes quite unworkable.
  
  
• Sandokhan and Tom Bishop with the Bipolar Map:
  They recognise the reality of the South Pole, the stupidity
  of Antarctica being a massive ring around the earth and
  of the quite unrealistic East-West distances, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, on the usual AEP map.
  
  
• So many explanations for gravity and gravitation:
  John Davis with Newtonian Gravitation needed to support his Infinite Flat Earth. SCG appears to support this.
  Then sceptimatic pushes his denpressure that in the end explains nothing.
  Finally here and more so at TFES.org some still seem push Universal Acceleration.
  
  
• And finally there's İntikam with his "explanations" for everything.

But none of these explains much of what I see by simple observation.

To top it off Gotham posts every so often how the "flat earth is taking the whole world" and soon everyone will accept "the truth".

A certain image of pigs flying does come to mind!

So Mr Totallackey,

show us your magic carpet flat earth that solves all these problems that other flat earthers cannot seem to agree on!

It really is a case of, "Will the real flat earth please stand up".

I feel like the bipolar map ought to have even more problems than the polar azimuthal map. I know people who have flown from New Delhi to San Francisco with a stop in Singapore. It's a pretty common route, I think. Looking at the bipolar map that route seems... inefficient. Of course, it doesn't make much sense on the polar azimuthal map either, but on the bipolar map you're going almost directly away from your destination on the first leg.

Plus that map has mad mood swings.

Plus that map has mad mood swings.

Good one!

I feel like the bipolar map ought to have even more problems than the polar azimuthal map. I know people who have flown from New Delhi to San Francisco with a stop in Singapore. It's a pretty common route, I think. Looking at the bipolar map that route seems... inefficient. Of course, it doesn't make much sense on the polar azimuthal map either, but on the bipolar map you're going almost directly away from your destination on the first leg.

Agreed,
Share out the errors,

But so many common routes are simply ridiculous and nothing like what is flown.

Try flying Sydney to Santiago or Tokyo to Los Angeles
or even circumnavigation East-West exactly along the equator or North-South-North again via long 0°E and 180°E.

And it much harder that the North Polar AEP for calculation of accurate distances between two places given by lat/long.

Also the sun's path on this "model" are more complicated and unbelievable than with the usual map.

By the way, being an AEP centred on 0°N 0°E, all distances from that point are in the correct proportion, but who cares?

The issue I see here is that for logical round-Earthers, it's illogical to debate with a group of people who's strongest defense is their rejection of reality.  The instant a flat-Earther says something along the lines of "it's a conspiracy" then the argument is over.  "We already know that the Earth is flat" is the same way.  It's unarguable.  It's impossible to confirm to be true or disprove.  The only way that you can persuade someone to change their mind is if the person is willing to change their mind.  In this case, the flat-Earthers are the people who decided that their mind wouldn't be changed by their 1st grade class, or any other information.  The denial of reality is an impenetrable defense, which is why no flat-Earther has ever said "You're right, the earth is round."

The only reason I'm here is to write a paper for my physics class, and to see how creative people can be when making up excuses to why we can see satellites even though they apparently don't exist.

The reasons why some people reject the real world in favour of conspiracy driven reality laced with pseudoscience is quite complex. The idea of an ill educated spotty youth living in the basement of their parents house could not be farther from the truth. In fact people who opt for alternative truth beliefs are quite often very well educated and come from a diverse range of backgrounds. According to a pair of new studies published in the  Applied Cognitive Psychology journal conspiracy theorists—and there are a lot more of them than you may think—tend to have one thing in common: they feel a lack of control over their lives.
Americans appear to be particularly prone!  For example year, 37% of surveyed Americans for a recent study believe that the FDA is deliberately preventing the public from accessing natural cures for cancer because they're beholden to drug companies.
A Dutch professor, Dr. Jan-Willem van Prooijen from Amsterdam University, who recently carried out a large study on the subject said.

There are no doubt cultural variables influencing it," van Prooijen says. "But the essence of conspiracy theorizing is, I think, universal in human beings. People have a natural tendency to be suspicious of groups that are powerful and potentially hostile."

You can read some of his papers here:-

http://www.janwillemvanprooijen.com/

The increase in very well educated people becoming "conspiracy theorists" is due to the 911effect^TM.

The increase in very well educated people becoming "conspiracy theorists" is due to the 911effect^TM.

So you're infecting this thread with 9/11itis too. Seems a very infectious malady.

Lol, Shillinoz is scared.

If the Earth really is flat, why is there no damning evidence for it? Surely someone could get a video camera tied to a weather balloon and record its flight upwards? Whenever this has been done by random people with no ties to governments or conspiracies it shows a round spherical Earth.

All the evidence I see to 'debunk' the round Earth 'believers' logic and science is that 'it's just a government conspiracy'. This cant be taken very seriously because you have yet to demonstrably prove any claims the Earth is flat, and yes I have looked at your F.A.Q. It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you and you have somehow broken the hold of this evil conspiracy and indoctrination but still no real photographic evidence or irrefutable proof the Earth is flat or Antarctica being nothing more than a supposed Ice Wall. How high is this wall?

Come on man, we all know the flat earth is flat. If it wasn't I would call it a globe or something silly.

Balloons have gone up, no curvature.

'Evidence' you say,
Go to the beach, watch a ship "disappear" over the "curve", pull out a telescope, watch it magically reappear.
Job done, the "curve" and it's mathematical dogma debunked forever.

Simple.

As for the suggested ice wall (which makes sense) it could be there but please suggest how I get close enough to observe it without being shot and fed to dogs.
You have never observed the toilet bowl at the edge of my hall way but it makes sense that it is there whether you believe or not.

Enjoy the beach
 

You have never observed the toilet bowl at the edge of my hall way but it makes sense that it is there

Not really. That sounds like an odd place for a toilet bowl.

It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you...

1. Whats romantic about that.
2. I KNOW the government lies to me...

Quote from: feuk on March 25, 2017, 11:39:54 AM

You have never observed the toilet bowl at the edge of my hall way but it makes sense that it is there

Not really. That sounds like an odd place for a toilet bowl.

Doesn't your toilet have a bowl ?

Dang,  must be a chore wearing wellies 24/7   

Quote from: Shifter on March 21, 2017, 04:34:59 PM

It's a romantic notion to believe the government is out to lie to you...

1. Whats romantic about that.
2. I KNOW the government lies to me...

Yeah, but they only lie to you.  They tell the truth to the rest of us and to be honest, they mostly said they didn't know you.

Quote from: Boots on March 25, 2017, 11:42:53 AM

Quote from: feuk on March 25, 2017, 11:39:54 AM

You have never observed the toilet bowl at the edge of my hall way but it makes sense that it is there

Not really. That sounds like an odd place for a toilet bowl.

Doesn't your toilet have a bowl ?

Dang, must be a chore wearing wellies 24/7   

Not really sure how that relates to what I said.

I said the edge of the hallway was an odd place for a toilet bowl.

Also, your implication that either my toilet must have a bowl or I must wear "wellies" 24/7 is typical of your ilk. In reality there are other options. What do you think they did before toilets or toilet bowls?

Not really sure how that relates to what I said.

I said the edge of the hallway was an odd place for a toilet bowl.

Also, your implication that either my toilet must have a bowl or I must wear "wellies" 24/7 is typical of your ilk. In reality there are other options. What do you think they did before toilets or toilet bowls?

Shat in a bucket and chucked it out the window ?

The bants appear to have taken a turn down surreal street,
anyway,
how about the curvature trigonometry being debunked with brazen enthusiasm by the masses.

Crazy huh

'Evidence' you say,
Go to the beach, watch a ship "disappear" over the "curve", pull out a telescope, watch it magically reappear.
Job done, the "curve" and it's mathematical dogma debunked forever.

Thank you for proving you've never actually tried that.  Because it doesn't happen.  You CAN however get it to reappear with an increase in altitude.