Poll

two men enter, one man leaves!

Donald Trump
1 (7.1%)
Elon Musk
1 (7.1%)
Freedom truckers!
2 (14.3%)
We don't need another hero
2 (14.3%)
Epstein didn't kill himself
8 (57.1%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Why do you support donald trump

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6330 on: January 26, 2018, 11:07:39 PM »
It's important to keep bringing up criminal Hillary. After all, she is POTUS now.

Who's this Trump guy, anyway?
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6331 on: January 26, 2018, 11:07:39 PM »
Correct. The president can only directly fire the people directly beneath him in the chain of command.

To fire Mueller would require a reenactment of the Saturday night massacre.

The reason he can't fire Mueller is because the Special Counsel is an office specifically created when the DOJ and/or President might have a conflict of interest with an investigation. The regulation creating the Special Counsel specifically states that only the AG can remove the Special Counsel.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7


What if the Special Council has a conflict of interest?  Should he continue to be on the Special Council?  That was what Trump was discussing, not firing him.

That's not quite right.  Trump already started the process to fire Mueller.  His counsel, recognizing that this would be the end of him, threatened to quit.

The conflict of interest by the way.  Like 20 years ago Mueller dropped his membership with a Trump golf resort over an issue with membership fees.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6332 on: January 26, 2018, 11:18:51 PM »
I don't care what discussions you have had with other people.

The questions you are asking have already been answered in this thread,  you can read them or not. 



I did not realize I was obligated to combine and coagulate responses to questions from others
into answers to my own questions.

 ;)

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6333 on: January 27, 2018, 12:42:26 AM »
I don't care what discussions you have had with other people.

The questions you are asking have already been answered in this thread,  you can read them or not. 



I did not realize I was obligated to combine and coagulate responses to questions from others
into answers to my own questions.

 ;)

LOL,   I can help you coagulate.   The answer to your first assertion that she is guilty of storing classified material on a private ( and presumably insecure server ) is not as straight forward as you might think.

First classified material is stored on a seperate system, and it's not possible to view something on a classified system and transfer it to email,  the systems are designed so that's not practically possible.

Quote
Media sometimes erroneously refer to Clinton as having shared classified documents. This is not something she is accused of. It is extremely difficult to share a classified document electronically over email. Most government agencies, including the State Department, maintain separate systems precisely to make it all but impossible to electronically pass information between classified and unclassified systems.

One cannot simply view a document on a classified network and email it to someone on an unclassified system even within the same agency. This is partly why Clinton and her aides say so assuredly that they did not knowingly email classified materials.

The issue is whether she and her aides should have known that matters discussed in emails were classified or sensitive. In fact, in several of the released emails she and aides take pains to avoid discussing classified matters.

So the first assertion is that classified material is sent by email is false.  However,  people can email each other and in the course of discussion might inadvertently mention or reference something that's classified.   

Second,  who decides what's classification something gets.  and this is going on all the time when DOJ might not consider something classified and the State Dept has a different view.  So people can talk about classified material without ever knowing it classified or not.

It's not cut and dried,  it will depend on the circumstances,  and classifications can change over time.

Let's look at the Clinton private server issue.

Quote
In late 2014, the State Department asked Clinton and other former secretaries of state to hand over any work-related emails they may have.

By then, Clinton had already "deleted some [emails] over time as an ordinary user would," FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers at a July congressional hearing.

And she tasked her legal team to determine which of the roughly 60,000 emails still on her server were work-related.

"Clinton told the FBI that she directed her legal team to provide any work-related or arguably work-related emails to State; however she did not participate in the development of the specific process to be used or in discussions of the locations of where her emails might exist," the FBI concluded in its investigative summary of the case.

Comey testified that the FBI "didn't find any evidence of evil intent and intent to obstruct justice."

To determine which emails were work-related, a member of Clinton’s legal team did four things: she automatically deemed any email sent from or to a .gov and .mil address as related to work; she searched the tens of thousands of emails for names of senior State Department officials, lawmakers, foreign leaders and other government officials; she conducted a keyword search for work-related terms; and she looked at the sender, recipient and "subject" of every email for other potentially work-related emails, but she did not read the contents of those emails.

In December 2014, Clinton’s legal team provided about 30,000 emails -- totaling 55,000 pages -- to the State Department.

"[Clinton] then was asked by her lawyers at the end, 'Do you want us to keep the personal emails?' And she said, 'I have no use for them anymore.' It's then that they issued the direction that the technical people delete them," Comey told lawmakers.

In total, more than 30,000 emails were deleted "because they were personal and private about matters that I believed were within the scope of my personal privacy," Clinton told reporters in March of 2015, as the controversy around her private emails was growing.

"They had nothing to do with work," Clinton added. "I didn't see any reason to keep them ... no one wants their personal emails made public, and I think most people understand that and respect that privacy."

Clinton said her team "went through a thorough process" to identify work-related emails, and she said he had "absolute confidence that everything that could be in any way connected to work is now in the possession of the State Department."

Please note Colin Powell didn't hand over anything,  he used his private AOL email account for official business while Secretary of State.   As Mike Pence still does official business using his personal AOL account for official business.   Jared and Ivanka Kushner use private email for official business as well.

Quote
In discussing normal business, it may not be evident that certain specific topics are classified. Is the entire conversation the secretary has with a foreign leader classified? Are parts of it? Is the fact that the conversation took place classified? It depends on subject matter and context, and the assessment is subjective. In the normal course of business, however, a government employee may decide that the subject matter is not sensitive and discuss the conversation over an unclassified system.

But other more complicated issues arise. For example, the U.S. government cannot acknowledge drone strikes carried out by the CIA. That information remains classified even if revealed in the media. Thus, discussing them over an unclassified system would not be allowed. However, drone strikes carried out by the Department of Defense are not subject to such restrictions. This distinction may be one of the key contentions the intelligence community has with some information in the Clinton emails.

The fact is government officials inadvertently send classified details over unclassified email systems all the time. Considering the amount of information dealt with on a daily basis, it is inevitable. Classified details are accidentally revealed in casual conversations and media interviews. We may not hear about it because it’s not in the interviewee’s interest to point that out after the fact.

A colleague and former CIA analyst tells his students he would never knowingly but almost certainly will inadvertently relate in the classroom a tidbit that is classified. The classic example is when Senator David Boren accidentally revealed the name of a clandestine CIA agent. Boren at the time was no less than chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

In that light, Clinton may have been careless, but she’s certainly not alone.


« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 12:44:30 AM by Rayzor »
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6334 on: January 27, 2018, 10:11:07 AM »


The deep state is after Hannity.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6335 on: January 27, 2018, 10:15:36 AM »
The deep state is after Hannity.
If it's from 8chan, it has to be true.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6336 on: January 27, 2018, 10:33:51 AM »
Note to chan people: stop using Matrix metaphors all the time. It makes you sound like complete tools.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6337 on: January 27, 2018, 05:01:56 PM »

LOL,   I can help you coagulate.   The answer to your first assertion that she is guilty of storing classified material on a private ( and presumably insecure server ) is not as straight forward as you might think.

First classified material is stored on a seperate system, and it's not possible to view something on a classified system and transfer it to email,  the systems are designed so that's not practically possible.



That is the point of having a secure system in place for sharing classified information.
Any document created that contains information that, say, the Secretary of State should know is classified [kinda the job description] can not be created and traded on an unsecured system to people who do not posses a security clearance.

One can try to excuse her actions as being inept or ignorant, but those factors are not part of the description of the crime.


(I am only going to respond to one assertion at a time.
We don't need to say everything at once.)


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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6338 on: January 27, 2018, 05:02:25 PM »
Note to chan people: stop using Matrix metaphors all the time. It makes you sound like complete tools.

LOL,  trust me,  that's about the least thing that makes chan people, look  like complete fools.

BTW keep an eye on the #qanon hashtag on twitter it's a scream if you like tongue-in-cheek comic conspiracy.
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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6339 on: January 27, 2018, 05:06:07 PM »

LOL,   I can help you coagulate.   The answer to your first assertion that she is guilty of storing classified material on a private ( and presumably insecure server ) is not as straight forward as you might think.

First classified material is stored on a seperate system, and it's not possible to view something on a classified system and transfer it to email,  the systems are designed so that's not practically possible.



That is the point of having a secure system in place for sharing classified information.
Any document created that contains information that, say, the Secretary of State should know is classified [kinda the job description] can not be created and traded on an unsecured system to people who do not posses a security clearance.

One can try to excuse her actions as being inept or ignorant, but those factors are not part of the description of the crime.


(I am only going to respond to one assertion at a time.
We don't need to say everything at once.)

You keep saying traded,  i don't think you really meant traded, that implies that information was sold or exchanged somehow,  no-one has ever suggested that before.   

In any case there were no classified documents ever stored on her private servers, and she's never been accused of that.

You still don't have any evidence of crime.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6340 on: January 27, 2018, 05:21:35 PM »

LOL,   I can help you coagulate.   The answer to your first assertion that she is guilty of storing classified material on a private ( and presumably insecure server ) is not as straight forward as you might think.

First classified material is stored on a seperate system, and it's not possible to view something on a classified system and transfer it to email,  the systems are designed so that's not practically possible.



That is the point of having a secure system in place for sharing classified information.
Any document created that contains information that, say, the Secretary of State should know is classified [kinda the job description] can not be created and traded on an unsecured system to people who do not posses a security clearance.

One can try to excuse her actions as being inept or ignorant, but those factors are not part of the description of the crime.


(I am only going to respond to one assertion at a time.
We don't need to say everything at once.)

You keep saying traded,  i don't think you really meant traded, that implies that information was sold or exchanged somehow,  no-one has ever suggested that before.   

In any case there were no classified documents ever stored on her private servers, and she's never been accused of that.

You still don't have any evidence of crime.


Reality exists independent of opinion...

Quote
In total, the investigation found 110 emails in 52 email chains containing information that was classified at the time it was sent or received. Eight chains contained top secret information, the highest level of classification, 36 chains contained secret information, and the remaining eight contained confidential information. Most of these emails, however, did not contain markings clearly delineating their status.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/06/hillary-clinton/fbi-findings-tear-holes-hillary-clintons-email-def/




« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 05:24:10 PM by Bullwinkle »

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6341 on: January 27, 2018, 05:26:37 PM »

LOL,   I can help you coagulate.   The answer to your first assertion that she is guilty of storing classified material on a private ( and presumably insecure server ) is not as straight forward as you might think.

First classified material is stored on a seperate system, and it's not possible to view something on a classified system and transfer it to email,  the systems are designed so that's not practically possible.



That is the point of having a secure system in place for sharing classified information.
Any document created that contains information that, say, the Secretary of State should know is classified [kinda the job description] can not be created and traded on an unsecured system to people who do not posses a security clearance.

One can try to excuse her actions as being inept or ignorant, but those factors are not part of the description of the crime.


(I am only going to respond to one assertion at a time.
We don't need to say everything at once.)

You keep saying traded,  i don't think you really meant traded, that implies that information was sold or exchanged somehow,  no-one has ever suggested that before.   

In any case there were no classified documents ever stored on her private servers, and she's never been accused of that.

You still don't have any evidence of crime.


Reality exists independent of opinion...

(Politifact)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/06/hillary-clinton/fbi-findings-tear-holes-hillary-clintons-email-def/

Do you know the difference between a classified document and an email that contains a reference to something that may or may not be classified.   

Out of 30,000 emails handed over to the state department only two three were ever considered to be marked as containing classified information,  and we don't know the details except that they made a point of distinguishing between drone strikes carried out by the CIA, and drone strikes carried out by other branches of the military,  one is classified the other is not.

You and I might well have just discussed something that's classified without even knowing it.  Is that a crime?

From the article you linked
Quote

Editor's note: The day after we published this fact-check, Comey testified before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on July 7. Comey said he believes three emails on Clinton's server contained information labeled classified at the time they were sent. This information was not properly marked in that the emails did not have a classification header, even though a "(c)" immediately preceded text in the body of the emails, designating confidential information. Without the clear classification header, it's reasonable to infer that Clinton did not realize these three emails contained classified information, he said.

Edit : Fixed typos.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 05:37:35 PM by Rayzor »
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6342 on: January 27, 2018, 05:43:58 PM »

Out of 30,000 emails handed over to the state department only two three were ever considered to be marked as containing classified information,



So, by your own admission, she is guilty of a few crimes.

Do you realize that documents are born classified?
They don't need a great big red ink 007 style rubber stamp across the page to make them classified.

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6343 on: January 27, 2018, 05:49:45 PM »

Out of 30,000 emails handed over to the state department only two three were ever considered to be marked as containing classified information,



So, by your own admission, she is guilty of a few crimes.

Do you realize that documents are born classified?
They don't need a great big red ink 007 style rubber stamp across the page to make them classified.

These are NOT classified documents.  You appear to be deliberately misunderstanding the difference between a classified document,  and email that contains a reference to classified material,  its not the same thing.


No classified documents were ever stored on her private servers. 
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6344 on: January 27, 2018, 06:08:05 PM »
Out of 30,000 emails handed over to the state department only two three were ever considered to be marked as containing classified information,

No classified documents were ever stored on her private servers. 


I'll let you two figure this one out.   ;)

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6345 on: January 27, 2018, 06:18:18 PM »
Out of 30,000 emails handed over to the state department only two three were ever considered to be marked as containing classified information,

No classified documents were ever stored on her private servers. 


I'll let you two figure this one out.   ;)

So you still don't understand the difference between a classified document and an email that is marked classified. 

As it happens she never received or sent any emails that were correctly marked as containing classified material.

let me highlight it for you.

Quote
Media sometimes erroneously refer to Clinton as having shared classified documents. This is not something she is accused of. It is extremely difficult to share a classified document electronically over email. Most government agencies, including the State Department, maintain separate systems precisely to make it all but impossible to electronically pass information between classified and unclassified systems.

One cannot simply view a document on a classified network and email it to someone on an unclassified system even within the same agency. This is partly why Clinton and her aides say so assuredly that they did not knowingly email classified materials.

The issue is whether she and her aides should have known that matters discussed in emails were classified or sensitive. In fact, in several of the released emails she and aides take pains to avoid discussing classified matters.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 06:20:28 PM by Rayzor »
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6346 on: January 27, 2018, 06:40:09 PM »
Still Hilareeeeeeeeeing.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6347 on: January 27, 2018, 06:53:31 PM »

So you still don't understand the difference between a classified document and an email that is marked classified. 


A document that contains classified information is a classified document.
Be it quill and ink on vellum, clay tablet or email.
It is not the header that makes it classified, it is the content.

Exposing those documents to POTENTIAL dissemination, whether or not it actually occurred, is a crime. Intent, ignorance and ineptitude are not required to satisfy the definition of the crime.



let me highlight it for you.

Quote
The issue is whether she and her aides should have known that matters discussed in emails were classified or sensitive. In fact, in several of the released emails she and aides take pains to avoid discussing classified matters.

That's your position?

Sometimes she didn't commit a crime?

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6348 on: January 27, 2018, 06:56:58 PM »
Still Hilareeeeeeeeeing.

Awwww, mom, let me stay up another half an hour.


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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6349 on: January 27, 2018, 07:06:22 PM »

So you still don't understand the difference between a classified document and an email that is marked classified. 


A document that contains classified information is a classified document.
Be it quill and ink on vellum, clay tablet or email.
It is not the header that makes it classified, it is the content.

Exposing those documents to POTENTIAL dissemination, whether or not it actually occurred, is a crime. Intent, ignorance and ineptitude are not required to satisfy the definition of the crime.



let me highlight it for you.

Quote
The issue is whether she and her aides should have known that matters discussed in emails were classified or sensitive. In fact, in several of the released emails she and aides take pains to avoid discussing classified matters.

That's your position?

Sometimes she didn't commit a crime?

My position based on the facts,  is that no classified documents were ever stored on clinton's private servers.  No emails that were correctly marked as containing classified material were found on private servers.

From the politifact article you linked to.
Quote
Experts say the story here is more about the dysfunction of government classification than about how Clinton regularly handled sensitive information.

Agencies regularly disagree over what should be classified or not. As the email story has unfolded, the State Department has squabbled with the intelligence community over whether certain emails should be classified today and if it was classified back when it was sent during Clinton’s tenure.

"The decision to mark a document is more art than science and leads to bureaucratic in-fighting on whether something should be classified or not," said Gary Bass, Bauman Foundation executive director and former director of OMB Watch, a government accountability organization.

Also, transparency advocates say the government regularly classifies more than it needs to. The government classifies incorrectly 70 percent of the time, according to the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel.

Thomas Blanton, director of the National Security Archive at George Washington University said some of the classified material the FBI identified might not be particularly sensitive." There is not a line in any of Mrs. Clinton's emails that meets the smell test of classification, which is their release would be damaging to our national security," he said.


Trump has disclosed highly classified information on tv,  why aren't you demanding he be locked up?


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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6350 on: January 27, 2018, 07:19:00 PM »
You are something Rayzor...the way you justify things and the mental gymnastics is quite spectacular. Even if you have to contradict yourself or anything else.

As for Trump sharing classified information, I don't know what you are talking about. However, as far as I know, the president can remove classification on documents at any point
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6351 on: January 27, 2018, 07:21:09 PM »
Trump has disclosed highly classified information on tv,  why aren't you demanding he be locked up?

The President owns all information gathered, collected or produced by any agency under control of the Executive Branch.

The President does not need permission from anyone to disseminate that information.

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6352 on: January 27, 2018, 07:24:45 PM »
You are something Rayzor...the way you justify things and the mental gymnastics is quite spectacular. Even if you have to contradict yourself or anything else.

As for Trump sharing classified information, I don't know what you are talking about. However, as far as I know, the president can remove classification on documents at any point

He disclosed locations of two nuclear submarines,   he told the Russians about the laptop bomb plot that the israelis had a mole inside the isis bomb making group.

That's about 1000 times worse than anything Clinton has ever been accused of.

Also Jared Kushner is getting the highly classified PDB even though he still has no security clearance,  that alone should get him indicted.

The double standard is stunning.
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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6353 on: January 27, 2018, 07:31:44 PM »
You are something Rayzor...the way you justify things and the mental gymnastics is quite spectacular. Even if you have to contradict yourself or anything else.

Care to point out where you think I've contradicted myself,  or is this just you being deliberately selective again.
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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6354 on: January 27, 2018, 07:37:07 PM »
While you are busy trying to justify Trump disclosing locations of nuclear submarines.   Here's a good one.

Russian Trolls organized both sides of a protest in Houston,  they have got to be killing themselves laughing about how stupid Texans are.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/26/media/russia-trolls-facebook-events/index.html?sr=twCNN012618russia-trolls-facebook-events0744PMStoryVideo

Quote
In a written statement Facebook gave to the Senate Intelligence Committee released on Thursday, the social media network said that the events created by one Kremlin-linked troll group were seen by more than 300,000 Facebook users. About 62,500 users marked that they would attend the event, and an additional 25,800 expressed an interest in attending.
Facebook told Congress it does "not have data about the realization of these events," but CNN has previously found evidence that the Russian group successfully convinced Americans to attend the demonstrations.
The events were organized on a range of divisive issues and were designed to pit Americans against each other.
In one case, the troll group organized and promoted two opposing events on the same day at the same location in Houston, Texas.

"Heart of Texas," a page that posed as a pro-Texas secession organization, promoted a "Stop Islamization of Texas" protest at the opening of a library at an Islamic Center on May 21, 2016. The same troll group used another page, "United Muslims of America," to promote a "Save Islamic Knowledge" event at the same time.

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6355 on: January 27, 2018, 07:40:02 PM »
Anyone who relies on the face book for information is an inbred butt-fucking disaster.

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6356 on: January 27, 2018, 07:40:41 PM »
You are something Rayzor...the way you justify things and the mental gymnastics is quite spectacular. Even if you have to contradict yourself or anything else.

As for Trump sharing classified information, I don't know what you are talking about. However, as far as I know, the president can remove classification on documents at any point

He disclosed locations of two nuclear submarines,   he told the Russians about the laptop bomb plot that the israelis had a mole inside the isis bomb making group.

Who knows if those subs we're actually there? Perhaps just a game? I would do the same if messing with an opponent's head.

As for giving the Russians info, as far as I know that saved some lives. I would say that is a good thing.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6357 on: January 27, 2018, 07:42:17 PM »
Anyone who relies on the face book for information is an inbred butt-fucking disaster.

Are you calling Texans inbred butt-fuckers?   

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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markjo

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6358 on: January 27, 2018, 07:46:26 PM »
Out of 30,000 emails handed over to the state department only two three were ever considered to be marked as containing classified information,

No classified documents were ever stored on her private servers. 


I'll let you two figure this one out.   ;)

So you still don't understand the difference between a classified document and an email that is marked classified. 
Are you saying that emails are not documents?
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #6359 on: January 27, 2018, 07:47:55 PM »
You are something Rayzor...the way you justify things and the mental gymnastics is quite spectacular. Even if you have to contradict yourself or anything else.

As for Trump sharing classified information, I don't know what you are talking about. However, as far as I know, the president can remove classification on documents at any point

He disclosed locations of two nuclear submarines,   he told the Russians about the laptop bomb plot that the israelis had a mole inside the isis bomb making group.

Who knows if those subs we're actually there? Perhaps just a game? I would do the same if messing with an opponent's head.

As for giving the Russians info, as far as I know that saved some lives. I would say that is a good thing.

The Pentagon and especially the Israelis have a different view.   Why would they give a blabbermouth like Trump any more intelligence.  If he's just going to blurt it out at the first opportunity.

I think the truth is Trump was just blowing his own trumpet, bragging about how much he knew, and the Russians encouraged him.  No surprise there.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.