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Newtons third law

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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1200 on: July 07, 2016, 10:26:33 AM »
Filling your tank with the engine running is both dangerous & has nothing to do with either the behaviour of gasses in a vacuum or N3...

Just nothing.

You really are trying to protect your latest bullshit 'proper scientist' sock-puppet EDao2 aren't you?

Lol fail.

Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 09:06:25 AM
when outside pressure is 0 as in the case of a vacuum like Outer Space, the internal pressure acts as the source of force due to pressure

What internal pressure?

Unless your rocket is a sealed unit there will be none; the Joule Expansion experiment proves this beyond a doubt.

And how can a force be created when there is nothing to create pressure against?

F=PA, remember?

When there is 0 pressure at the area of the nozzle exit, as in a vacuum, then what is the accelerated mass pressing against in order to create a force-pair, & thus motion, as specifically required by N3?

Here is N3 again, in case you are as forgetful as every other clown here:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

Generally speaking though, LOL at you joining & immediately going after me with your second post...

I am not a flat earther btw; but you already knew that didn't you?

*Yawn!*
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sokarul

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1201 on: July 07, 2016, 10:34:22 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 10:26:33 AM
Filling your tank with the engine running is both dangerous & has nothing to do with either the behaviour of gasses in a vacuum or N3...

Just nothing.

You really are trying to protect your latest bullshit 'proper scientist' sock-puppet EDao2 aren't you?

Lol fail.

Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 09:06:25 AM
when outside pressure is 0 as in the case of a vacuum like Outer Space, the internal pressure acts as the source of force due to pressure

What internal pressure?

Unless your rocket is a sealed unit there will be none; the Joule Expansion experiment proves this beyond a doubt.

And how can a force be created when there is nothing to create pressure against?

F=PA, remember?

When there is 0 pressure at the area of the nozzle exit, as in a vacuum, then what is the accelerated mass pressing against in order to create a force-pair, & thus motion, as specifically required by N3?

Here is N3 again, in case you are as forgetful as every other clown here:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

Generally speaking though, LOL at you joining & immediately going after me with your second post...

I am not a flat earther btw; but you already knew that didn't you?

*Yawn!*
Once again I shut you right the fuck up.

Self hating retard.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1202 on: July 07, 2016, 10:52:24 AM »
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 10:15:20 AM
If I leave my car running while filling to tank, will it take infinite gallons of gas?

If you spent a million bucks on the car, probably yes.   ;)
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sceptimatic

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1203 on: July 07, 2016, 11:01:22 AM »
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM

Do you mean a force like the one exerted by the rocket engine pushing back against that force coming out of it?
There's nothing pushing back against it, except the atmosphere that is being pushed into.

Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
Just out of curiosity, does that cloud have any mass to it?  Say, about the same mass as the propellant being burned.
The propellant being burned and exhausted will be exhausted mass of gas from a liquid burn.

Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
Do you understand the concept of relative motion?  For example, a car is in motion relative to the ground, but a passenger is not in motion relative to the car.
What has this got to do with what we are talking about?




Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
Apparently you don't realize that most laws of physics refer to idealized conditions.  Of course there are always forces acting on everything.  However, Newton's laws allow us to determine the magnitude of each of those forces.
It doesn't matter about idealised or Newton allowing whatever. The fact is, the laws are crap except his supposed 3rd law.
I've already explained why.


Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
Inertia is simply the tendency of an object to keep doing what it's doing.  You need to add an external force, such as friction or a push, in order to overcome that tendency.

An object will only keep doing what it's doing if a constant force is applied to it. This can never happen unless in a fictional vacuum.


Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.  Atmospheric pressure is a force, but it acts as a force to resist the motion of an object more often than not (wind resistance).
An object can only move by friction which is by energy applied against another friction which is resistance.
Nothing works unless that first effort is applied. Energy. Action.
For that action to continue a reaction must always follow the action, before another energy action can ensue.



Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
Yes, it's referring to an ideal, friction free environment, but it doesn't necessarily need to be space.  After all, lubricant companies go to great lengths to thy and reduce friction as much as possible here on earth.
There is no friction free environment, ever, unless you go for the FICTIONAL space vacuum.
You see, we are not talking about minor friction, because any friction renders the law as not a law in the first place. It's fictional. Made up nonsense that has been made to appear like it's worth something. It's worth nothing in reality.



 
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
A paper weight sitting on your desk is at rest, isn't it?
No it isn't. It's under ever changing atmospheric pressures upon it and within it. Expansion and contraction. You cannot deny this, can you? Only in a fictional space vacuum can this paper weight be at rest.







Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
Orbits are probably better a topic for another thread.
Not really because what I said about them is actually relevant to what we are talking about with this mass upon mass. You know this.





Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
It's been said that you should learn from other people's mistakes because there's a pretty good chance that you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
That's what I'm doing. I'm learning from other people's mistakes and trying to teach those people that they bought into mistakes, or lies or naivety.


Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
As I've said before, a good physics course will take you through step-by-step how and why these physical laws came to be so that you can properly judge their validity for yourself.
The physics being argued about are wrong on the part of mainstream supposed science.
I believe you know this and I believe quite a few do. Admitting it is another thing, but each to their own.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 11:03:34 AM by sceptimatic »
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1204 on: July 07, 2016, 11:03:12 AM »
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 10:34:22 AM
Once again I shut you right the fuck up.

Once again you are lying.

And will not be punished for it.

Because shill-forum.

You really are trying to protect your latest bullshit 'proper scientist' sock-puppet EDao2 aren't you?

Lol fail.

Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 09:06:25 AM
when outside pressure is 0 as in the case of a vacuum like Outer Space, the internal pressure acts as the source of force due to pressure

What internal pressure?

Unless your rocket is a sealed unit there will be none; the Joule Expansion experiment proves this beyond a doubt.

And how can a force be created when there is nothing to create pressure against?

F=PA, remember?

When there is 0 pressure at the area of the nozzle exit, as in a vacuum, then what is the accelerated mass pressing against in order to create a force-pair, & thus motion, as specifically required by N3?

Here is N3 again, in case you are as forgetful as every other clown here:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

Generally speaking though, LOL at you joining & immediately going after me with your second post...

I am not a flat earther btw; but you already knew that didn't you?

*Yawn!*
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Pezevenk

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1205 on: July 07, 2016, 11:05:58 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on July 07, 2016, 08:25:43 AM
Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 08:23:15 AM
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 07:50:04 AM
Remember you cried when I asked you what pushes a golf ball after the golfer hits it?

Please link us to this post.

Lol bet you don't you little liar.

Meanwhile, lol at this...

Again:



An explosion between two gas molecules?

But isn't the 'explosion' in a rocket caused by expanding gas molecules?

So there must be expanding gas molecules between your two gas molecules?

Please redraw your lulzy cartoon to include them, eh?

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 07:55:40 AM
The free expansion of gases in vacuum is, believe it or not, completely unrelated to the topic.

LMFAO!!!

RUN AWAY..! 

FLEE!

Stop being an idiot. The reason why the two gas molecules move apart from each other (the "explosion") is because they're heated up. And contrary to what you think, free expansion does not mean that gases are somehow instantaneously launched at an infinite distance from each other.
You better understand what heated up means. Personally speaking, I think you should just give up. It's clear you're only here to stand behind the regulars (assuming you are not a sock puppet) and chant garbage.

I know what heated up actually means, I don't know what it means in your absurd model though. But then again, I don't care.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1206 on: July 07, 2016, 11:09:24 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 08:26:35 AM
Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 08:19:49 AM
Legba thinks rockets go against N3.

No I do not.

Stop Lying.

I know for a fact that rockets obey N3 because they push against a second, external mass to themselves.

That mass is the atmosphere through which they move.

Which is why they cannot work in 'space', which is a vacuum.

For further proof, see Free Expansion of gasses in a vacuum, which states a gas does no work in a vacuum.

Please try to use SCIENCE rather than LIES as a basis for your strange sci-fi cult beliefs, eh, Deaf Dick?

Again, rockets push against the fuel. Didn't get that the first time? Ok, here we go:

Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.
Rockets push against the fuel.

Do you get it now? Probably not, but oh well.

The fuel expands in all directions. As it expands, it pushes against the rocket, which makes it go forwards. Free expansion of gases has literally nothing to do with all of that.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1207 on: July 07, 2016, 11:20:52 AM »
Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
The fuel expands in all directions. As it expands, it pushes against the rocket, which makes it go forwards. Free expansion of gases has literally nothing to do with all of that.

Lol brainwasher.

You speak of the work done by the expansion of gasses then turn round & deny the scientific fact that when gasses expand into a vacuum they do so without doing any work.

You sound pretty mental.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1208 on: July 07, 2016, 11:31:08 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on July 07, 2016, 09:22:44 AM
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
If the cloud below the rocket is the exhaust, then what is that stuff coming out of the rocket engines?
The force. You know that force that requires another force to pair off?
The burn that comes out of the nozzle is the first force which expands into the dense atmosphere, which squeezes back. It creates a huge resistance in equal measures.
The cloud is the energy expended (note I said "expended") which means "exhausted" because that is the rocket exhausted fuel, meaning no more thrusting burn..



Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force.
This is where Newtons first law is rendered useless because everything is in motion. Nothing is ever at rest.
And no, that is not trivial; it's absolutely pertinent.

As for the UNIFORM motion in a straight line, unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force. This can only apply in your fictional vacuum. It cannot apply in an atmosphere because nothing can carry on in a uniform manner in an atmosphere, because there is always an external force resisting it, not matter how strong or weak.



Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
This is normally taken as the definition of inertia.
This inertia comes up but inertia cannot be explained as anything. We've been through this. This is another classic case of,  "it just is"...
Atmospheric pressure upon an energy force to overcome the resistance of any object.



Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
The key point here is that if there is no net force acting on an object (if all the external forces cancel each other out) then the object will maintain a constant velocity.
Only in a fictional space vacuum, right? or are you going to deny this?


Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
If that velocity is zero, then the object remains at rest.
Yes but it will never be at zero unless it's in a fictional vacuum, right?



Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
The second law explains how the velocity of an object changes when it is subjected to an external force.
 The law defines a force to be equal to change in momentum (mass times velocity) per change in time. Newton also developed the calculus of mathematics, and the "changes" expressed in the second law are most accurately defined in differential forms. (Calculus can also be used to determine the velocity and location variations experienced by an object subjected to an external force.) For an object with a constant mass m, the second law states that the force F is the product of an object's mass and its acceleration a:

F = m * a
For an external applied force, the change in velocity depends on the mass of the object. A force will cause a change in velocity; and likewise, a change in velocity will generate a force. The equation works both ways.
It doesn't really make any sense as any law at all.



Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
The ISS and satellites are in a constant state of free fall due to their velocity balancing the force of earth's gravity.
Yeah, this makes absolutely no sense at all but still, even going by it, we still have the mass inside the supposed crafts as being like outside and thus, like Newy boy supposed stated. Mass upon mass will change the motion, yet the ISS always manages to never sway from it's supposed path due to mass movement inside of it by those ever exercising bad actors clanging about with weights and using the bars to chase each other in gorilla suits and such.
Never mind, eh?


Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
  What exactly do you think is going on between the air and the cars in this video?


I've already explained it.


Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
How would you know that if you've never taken a physics class?
How do people learn to swim if they've never taken a swimming class?
How do people learn to hunt if they've never been shown?
How do people invent things of nobody's shown them?

It's called using your brain and sifting out the good from the bad and learning from mistakes, as well as making sure that bad habits are avoided, like people adhering to certain ways/traits for no other reason than trusting their peers rather than their own senses.

"This is where Newtons first law is rendered useless because everything is in motion. Nothing is ever at rest."

That's just stupid. Motion is relative. You can pick anything you want and declare that it's at rest, depending on the reference frame you chose. Even if you were right, Newton's first law states that it will remain in motion.

"As for the UNIFORM motion in a straight line, unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force. This can only apply in your fictional vacuum. It cannot apply in an atmosphere because nothing can carry on in a uniform manner in an atmosphere, because there is always an external force resisting it, not matter how strong or weak."


That's also stupid. The resistance of the atmosphere can be easily calculated and it's pretty weak for many applications anyways. Or you can make experiments in a near vacuum (it would be hard to get a perfect vacuum).

"This inertia comes up but inertia cannot be explained as anything. We've been through this. This is another classic case of,  "it just is"..."


So? Well, there are explanations (such as the Higgs field), but what's the issue with something just being the way it is? No matter what you do, you will eventually reach a point where you'll just have to accept that some things just are the way they are, for no particular reason. Are you under the impression that your crappy model doesn't have things that aren't explained as anything?

"
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
The key point here is that if there is no net force acting on an object (if all the external forces cancel each other out) then the object will maintain a constant velocity.
Only in a fictional space vacuum, right? or are you going to deny this?"[/i]

First of all, stop calling it fictional. Second, no. If you put something on a table, well done. The net force on it is 0, and it remains at rest (depending on what your preferred frame of reference is). If it moves, the net force on it is NOT 0, so of course and it's not going to maintain a constant velocity.

"
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2016, 08:37:11 AM
If that velocity is zero, then the object remains at rest.
Yes but it will never be at zero unless it's in a fictional vacuum, right?"[/i]

No.

"It doesn't really make any sense as any law at all."

How so?

"Yeah, this makes absolutely no sense at all but still, even going by it, we still have the mass inside the supposed crafts as being like outside and thus, like Newy boy supposed stated. Mass upon mass will change the motion, yet the ISS always manages to never sway from it's supposed path due to mass movement inside of it by those ever exercising bad actors clanging about with weights and using the bars to chase each other in gorilla suits and such.
Never mind, eh?"

WTF did I just read? First of all, it DOES make sense. I can't explain it to you now, because you're too dumb to understand and I will just waste my time, so I will focus on this: "Mass upon mass will change the motion, yet the ISS always manages to never sway from it's supposed path due to mass movement inside of it". What are you even trying to say? That because mass moves inside the ISS, that should somehow alter its motion in a big way? It's like saying that because you threw a paper plane inside a bus the bus should stop or something. Besides, the total momentum of the ISS has to remain the same, so you can only change its motion a little bit without ejecting mass from it.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1209 on: July 07, 2016, 11:36:35 AM »
Tl;dr.

But it looked pretty mental.

I'll ask again; are you autistic?

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sokarul

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1210 on: July 07, 2016, 11:41:10 AM »
Lol

"Exhaust stacking"

Lol
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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1211 on: July 07, 2016, 11:45:09 AM »
Quote from: Definitely MENTAL
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
No, thanks! 




Bravo, shills!   
The more stupid questions you ask, the more I learn TRUE physics!!!   
Keep up the great work! 
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1212 on: July 07, 2016, 11:50:32 AM »
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 11:41:10 AM
"Exhaust stacking"

What's that?

I never mentioned it, so why bring it up?

A gas has mass & can therefore force-pair with another gas.

N3 says so.

Here it is again:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

Quote from: Charming Anarchist on July 07, 2016, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Definitely MENTAL
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
No, thanks! 

Bravo, shills!   
The more stupid questions you ask, the more I learn TRUE physics!!!   
Keep up the great work! 

Indeed; they are very shit indeed at their very shit jobs.
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EDao2

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1213 on: July 07, 2016, 11:51:30 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 09:27:53 AM
Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 09:06:25 AM
when outside pressure is 0 as in the case of a vacuum like Outer Space, the internal pressure acts as the source of force due to pressure

What internal pressure?

Unless your rocket is a sealed unit there will be none; the Joule Expansion experiment proves this beyond a doubt.

And how can a force be created when there is nothing to create pressure against?

F=PA, remember?

When there is 0 pressure at the area of the nozzle exit, as in a vacuum, then what is the accelerated mass pressing against in order to create a force-pair, & thus motion, as specifically required by N3?

Quote from: EDao2 on July 05, 2016, 10:21:45 PM
Also, the pressure here has two sources- the one exerted internally by the exploding fuel...

Pressure exists wherever a force is applied to an area:

P = F/A

Vacuums don't negate the exertion of force between objects especially in a container like the chamber in a rocket where the exit of that chamber is specifically designed to let some material out to prevent the forces inside it to reach equilibrium and prevent lift. The rest of the material that's contained in the chamber continues to exert force inside the chamber.

You're assuming that all the fuel of the rocket is being shot straight out into space. That's not true. The actual exit of the rocket's chamber is small enough to let a small enough portion of the fuel escape.

And the Joule Expansion experiment doesn't necessarily apply to exploding material in a vacuum especially since we're not talking about ideal gases.

Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 09:27:53 AM

Generally speaking though, LOL at you joining & immediately going after me with your second post...

I am not a flat earther btw; but you already knew that didn't you?

*Yawn!*

Ummm... sure?

Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 10:34:22 AM
Once again I shut you right the fuck up.
You really are trying to protect your latest bullshit 'proper scientist' sock-puppet EDao2 aren't you?

You okay? The sudden antagonism against me is a bit random and unwarranted.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1214 on: July 07, 2016, 11:57:43 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 11:20:52 AM
Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
The fuel expands in all directions. As it expands, it pushes against the rocket, which makes it go forwards. Free expansion of gases has literally nothing to do with all of that.

Lol brainwasher.

You speak of the work done by the expansion of gasses then turn round & deny the scientific fact that when gasses expand into a vacuum they do so without doing any work.

You sound pretty mental.

1) Why do you think there's a vacuum inside the rocket?
2) You are misunderstanding what "no work done by the gas" means in this case. All it means is that the gas is not pulled or pushed into going into expanding. That's because one atom inside it pushes the other, and as a result they try to get as far from each other as possible. When however you put a wall on one side and a gap next to it, some of the atoms are going to try to go the way of the wall and as a result will collide with it, pushing it. The gas can't magically evacuate the chamber without pushing the rocket, because that would mean the total momentum of the system increased without any external force. A direct violation of Newton's laws (both the second and the third). So basically rockets NOT working in a vacuum violate Newton's laws.   
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1215 on: July 07, 2016, 12:02:45 PM »
Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 11:51:30 AM
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 10:34:22 AM
Once again I shut you right the fuck up.
You really are trying to protect your latest bullshit 'proper scientist' sock-puppet EDao2 aren't you?

You okay? The sudden antagonism against me is a bit random and unwarranted.


Papa Legba is a genital wart. It has nothing to do with you.
Call him a penguin, it's fun.

Watch . . .


Bubba Legbone is a freakin' penguin.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1216 on: July 07, 2016, 12:24:45 PM »
Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 11:51:30 AM
Vacuums don't negate the exertion of force between objects

There is no object at the exit of the nozzle for pressure to be created against,

And a vacuum is most definitely not an object.

Which is why a rocket cannot create a force-pairing within one.

Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 11:51:30 AM
The rest of the material that's contained in the chamber continues to exert force inside the chamber.

It does not.

Because the 'material' is a gas, & gasses follow the path of least resistance from areas of high to low pressure.

So the gas will not exert pressure on anything as it passes into the Zero pressure of the vacuum.

Again, the Joule Expansion experiment proves this beyond doubt.

Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 11:51:30 AM
And the Joule Expansion experiment doesn't necessarily apply to exploding material

It applies to expanding gasses.

And combustion is expanding gasses.

Not that you have any proof combustion is even possible in a vacuum btw...

Quote from: EDao2 on July 07, 2016, 11:51:30 AM
The sudden antagonism against me is a bit random and unwarranted.

It is not.

You are 100% shill & are cordially invited to STFU & GTFO.
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sokarul

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1217 on: July 07, 2016, 12:51:32 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 11:41:10 AM
"Exhaust stacking"

What's that?

I never mentioned it, so why bring it up?

A gas has mass & can therefore force-pair with another gas.

N3 says so.

Here it is again:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

Quote from: Charming Anarchist on July 07, 2016, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Definitely MENTAL
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
No, thanks! 

Bravo, shills!   
The more stupid questions you ask, the more I learn TRUE physics!!!   
Keep up the great work! 

Indeed; they are very shit indeed at their very shit jobs.
So a gas force pairs with another gas? Then as previously asked, what force pairs with the rocket?
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Empirical

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1218 on: July 07, 2016, 12:57:44 PM »
Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 08:10:59 AM
Quote from: Empirical on June 30, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Hey Scepti, since I know you check this thread and in this chaos no one will care if I go of topic, I'll ask you an unrelated question.
How does your model of the atom explain the photoelectric effect?
If you don't know what it is, it's that if you shine UV light on a negatively charged piece of metal, it loses its negative charge. Same thing doesn't happen if the metal has a positive charge, or if the light is visible instead of UV. Why is this, what is special about a negative charge compared to a positive one.
This is an easy thing to test with a gold leaf electroscope, as the loss of charge causes the leaf to fall.
http://www.gcsescience.com/pse4-electrostatic-gold-leaf-electroscope.htm
Still no answer
Still Still no answer
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1219 on: July 07, 2016, 01:10:02 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
So a gas force pairs with another gas?

Are you saying it does not?

Because you would be Lying if you did, sucky-boy.

Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
Then as previously asked, what force pairs with the rocket?

As previously answered - repeatedly, sucky-boy - the atmosphere through which it rather conveniently moves.

N3 time again:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

No escaping N3, suckers!
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rabinoz

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1220 on: July 07, 2016, 01:32:47 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 01:10:02 PM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Speak up, I can't hear!
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Empirical

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1221 on: July 07, 2016, 01:35:36 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz on July 07, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 01:10:02 PM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Speak up, I can't hear!
I think that's because he can't move the air in his lungs, because it's inside them so he can't apply a force to it.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1222 on: July 07, 2016, 01:44:22 PM »
O noes teh sok-poopets iz angri!

lol

Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
So a gas force pairs with another gas?

Are you saying it does not?

Because you would be Lying if you did, sucky-boy.

Quote from: sokarul on July 07, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
Then as previously asked, what force pairs with the rocket?

As previously answered - repeatedly, sucky-boy - the atmosphere through which it rather conveniently moves.

N3 time again:

Newton's Third Law

Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

A force is a push or a pull that acts upon an object as a results of its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions!

Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
A variety of action-reaction force pairs are evident in nature. Consider the propulsion of a fish through the water. A fish uses its fins to push water backwards. But a push on the water will only serve to accelerate the water. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the water must also be pushing the fish forwards, propelling the fish through the water. The size of the force on the water equals the size of the force on the fish; the direction of the force on the water (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the fish (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for fish to swim.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.

No escaping N3, suckers!
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1223 on: July 07, 2016, 01:48:18 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz on July 07, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 01:10:02 PM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Speak up, I can't hear!

So you're ignoring me by replying to my posts Geoff?

Yeah, right.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1224 on: July 07, 2016, 02:29:56 PM »
Legba thinks that somehow gases "feel out" the path of least resistance from higher to lower pressures, without touching anything, and somehow add extra momentum to the system without external forces.
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1225 on: July 07, 2016, 02:33:44 PM »
Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 02:29:56 PM
Legba thinks that somehow gases "feel out" the path of least resistance from higher to lower pressures, without touching anything, and somehow add extra momentum to the system without external forces.

lol wut.

Seriously; are you autistic?
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Empirical

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1226 on: July 07, 2016, 02:35:17 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on July 07, 2016, 02:33:44 PM
Quote from: Definitely Not Official on July 07, 2016, 02:29:56 PM
Legba thinks that somehow gases "feel out" the path of least resistance from higher to lower pressures, without touching anything, and somehow add extra momentum to the system without external forces.

lol wut.

Seriously; are you autistic?
Just using your laws of fysics. The air inside your lungs it the same object as you, so you can't push it out your body to form words.

Also Papa, I know you don't want to accept it, but, your a shill.
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sceptimatic

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1227 on: July 07, 2016, 02:41:48 PM »
Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 12:57:44 PM
Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 08:10:59 AM
Quote from: Empirical on June 30, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Hey Scepti, since I know you check this thread and in this chaos no one will care if I go of topic, I'll ask you an unrelated question.
How does your model of the atom explain the photoelectric effect?
If you don't know what it is, it's that if you shine UV light on a negatively charged piece of metal, it loses its negative charge. Same thing doesn't happen if the metal has a positive charge, or if the light is visible instead of UV. Why is this, what is special about a negative charge compared to a positive one.
This is an easy thing to test with a gold leaf electroscope, as the loss of charge causes the leaf to fall.
http://www.gcsescience.com/pse4-electrostatic-gold-leaf-electroscope.htm
Still no answer
Still Still no answer
Non human.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1228 on: July 07, 2016, 02:48:11 PM »
Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 02:35:17 PM
Just using your laws of fysics. The air inside your lungs it the same object as you, so you can't push it out your body to form words.

Yes I can.

Are you autistic too?

Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 02:35:17 PM
Also Papa, I know you don't want to accept it, but, your a shill.

Okay; you are autistic.
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Empirical

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Re: Newtons third law
« Reply #1229 on: July 07, 2016, 02:49:14 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on July 07, 2016, 02:41:48 PM
Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 12:57:44 PM
Quote from: Empirical on July 07, 2016, 08:10:59 AM
Quote from: Empirical on June 30, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Hey Scepti, since I know you check this thread and in this chaos no one will care if I go of topic, I'll ask you an unrelated question.
How does your model of the atom explain the photoelectric effect?
If you don't know what it is, it's that if you shine UV light on a negatively charged piece of metal, it loses its negative charge. Same thing doesn't happen if the metal has a positive charge, or if the light is visible instead of UV. Why is this, what is special about a negative charge compared to a positive one.
This is an easy thing to test with a gold leaf electroscope, as the loss of charge causes the leaf to fall.
http://www.gcsescience.com/pse4-electrostatic-gold-leaf-electroscope.htm
Still no answer
Still Still no answer
Non human.
A negatively charged metal is different because it is non human, so are positively charged metals human then.
Your made up physics are really strange.
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