NASA

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Re: NASA
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2011, 09:05:13 PM »
# NASA sends Neil and Buzz around to give foreign heads of states questionable moon rocks
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32581790/ns/technology_and_science-science/

You've already been called out on this lie.  Your deliberate dishonesty in the upper forums is despicable.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=45854.msg1137813#msg1137813


It's not a lie. The moon rock they gave to the prime minister was fake. See the MSNBC article.

See the linked thread.  It is a lie to say that "NASA sends Neil and Buzz around to give foreign heads of states questionable moon rocks."  You know it is a lie and hope that no one will read the actual article.  Again, your deliberate dishonesty gives FE a bad name.

Who gives a crap if it was NASA who gave it to the US Ambassador who gave it to the Prime Minister? Neil and Buzz were the ones who collected it from the moon (allegedly) and gave it to NASA, therefore it was a gift from all of them.

The point is that they gave a fake moon rock to the Prime Minister.

i gave fake moon rock to my girlfriend so that proves we didnt go to moon?

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squevil

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Re: NASA
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2011, 09:13:05 PM »
the fake moon rock may of actually been the presidents mistake. all of the links can actually be explained rationally

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berny_74

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Re: NASA
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2011, 09:32:42 PM »
Tom, I read all of those links, and they are all flawed in some way shape or form. The only one that even remotely stirred my interest was your video of the "fake sun". Can you take a photo of the sun and do the same test and see what results you get? I would be interested in the results.

See Mythbusters.  I give them credit way over anything that has been done here.

Also
Quote
# Thomas Baron Silenced for Attempting to Expose the Truth
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth

Was also shot down in this forum.

Berny
Conspiracy Theories are for wimps
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
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hoppy

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Re: NASA
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2011, 09:44:17 PM »
Tom, I read all of those links, and they are all flawed in some way shape or form. The only one that even remotely stirred my interest was your video of the "fake sun". Can you take a photo of the sun and do the same test and see what results you get? I would be interested in the results.

See Mythbusters.  I give them credit way over anything that has been done here.

Also
Quote
# Thomas Baron Silenced for Attempting to Expose the Truth
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth

Was also shot down in this forum.

Berny
Conspiracy Theories are for wimps


Hey Berny,
  The conspiracy has you right where they want you.. That is thinking there is nothing wrong.
 
   You might want to research conspiracies, past mythbusters.

   Thinking everything is ok is for wimps.IMHO
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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2011, 10:21:29 PM »
I did RTFA, did you?
Quote from: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32581790/ns/technology_and_science-science/
The museum had vetted the moon rock with a phone call to NASA, Van Gelder said.

She said the space agency told the museum then that it was possible the Netherlands had received a rock: NASA gave moon rocks to more than 100 countries in the early 1970s, but those were from later missions.

The article also says that the Ex-US Ambassador William Middendorf went on camera and said where he had gotten it from.

See the bolded part below:

Quote
The museum acquired the rock after the death of former Prime Minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969, from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour after the first moon landing.

Middendorf, who lives in Rhode Island, told Dutch broadcaster NOS news that he had gotten it from the U.S. State Department
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 10:23:12 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: NASA
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2011, 03:06:46 AM »
I have a simple question that leads elsewhere.

Has NASA every been to space?

since this is only a simple yes, no question., I'm going to say... YES

click on this. It's a little more complicated.

Thank You Dear Friends





http://www.magneticenergy.org.uk/Ship_files/Ship.htm

Re: NASA
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2011, 03:17:31 AM »
It's not just NASA who have managed to get into space.

There are other organisations as well.


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General Disarray

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Re: NASA
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2011, 05:27:56 AM »
Last time I checked, the US State Department was not located on the moon.
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Part of the Problem

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Re: NASA
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2011, 07:07:47 AM »
The article also says that the Ex-US Ambassador William Middendorf went on camera and said where he had gotten it from.

See the bolded part below:

Quote
The museum acquired the rock after the death of former Prime Minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969, from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour after the first moon landing.

Middendorf, who lives in Rhode Island, told Dutch broadcaster NOS news that he had gotten it from the U.S. State Department
He got it from the State Department, not NASA.  Thanks.
So how do you make the leap from, "he got it from the U.S. State Department" to ""NASA sends Neil and Buzz around to give foreign heads of states questionable moon rocks."
By eliminating all present contradicting possibilities you would arrive at the present truth. It's impossible to arrive at a future truth.

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markjo

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Re: NASA
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2011, 08:08:23 AM »
The article also says that the Ex-US Ambassador William Middendorf went on camera and said where he had gotten it from.

See the bolded part below:

Quote
The museum acquired the rock after the death of former Prime Minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969, from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour after the first moon landing.

Middendorf, who lives in Rhode Island, told Dutch broadcaster NOS news that he had gotten it from the U.S. State Department

NASA is not a part of the U.S. State Department.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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hoppy

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Re: NASA
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2011, 08:23:44 AM »
Let's not make this more complicated than it really is. The U.S. government gave away fake moon rocks. NASA is the only U.S. agency that goes to the"moon".  Therefore NASA gave away fake moon rocks.
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General Disarray

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Re: NASA
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2011, 08:25:21 AM »
Let's not make this more complicated than it really is. The U.S. government gave away fake moon rocks. NASA is the only U.S. agency that goes to the"moon".  Therefore NASA gave away fake moon rocks.

Except for the part where they didn't.
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markjo

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Re: NASA
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2011, 08:39:39 AM »
Let's not make this more complicated than it really is. The U.S. government gave away fake moon rocks. NASA is the only U.S. agency that goes to the"moon".  Therefore NASA gave away fake moon rocks.

Except it was never firmly established that the rock in question was ever presented as a moon rock.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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hoppy

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Re: NASA
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2011, 10:52:03 AM »
Let's not make this more complicated than it really is. The U.S. government gave away fake moon rocks. NASA is the only U.S. agency that goes to the"moon".  Therefore NASA gave away fake moon rocks.

Except it was never firmly established that the rock in question was ever presented as a moon rock.

  Right ,I got you. The ambassador, astronauts or whoever, went there to present regular rocks they found in their backyard. Yeah that makes alot of sense.
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markjo

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Re: NASA
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2011, 11:19:27 AM »
Let's not make this more complicated than it really is. The U.S. government gave away fake moon rocks. NASA is the only U.S. agency that goes to the"moon".  Therefore NASA gave away fake moon rocks.

Except it was never firmly established that the rock in question was ever presented as a moon rock.

  Right ,I got you. The ambassador, astronauts or whoever, went there to present regular rocks they found in their backyard. Yeah that makes alot of sense.

The rock in question was presented about 3 months after the Apollo 11 mission.  It's very unlikely that NASA would have given away any moon rock samples so soon after they were collected.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: NASA
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2011, 11:21:01 AM »
They could be meteorites?

Why does it matter anyway? Has it been proven the rocks are not from the moon or something?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2011, 12:39:57 PM »
Right ,I got you. The ambassador, astronauts or whoever, went there to present regular rocks they found in their backyard. Yeah that makes alot of sense.

The rock in question was presented about 3 months after the Apollo 11 mission.  It's very unlikely that NASA would have given away any moon rock samples so soon after they were collected.

That would be true if NASA had really collected rocks from the moon and had considered them valuable. However, as they did not go to the moon, they would not consider moon rocks valuable.

Except it was never firmly established that the rock in question was ever presented as a moon rock.

Image from the article:



Like hoppy said above, it doesn't make any sense that they would present a rock they found in their back yard or on the side of the road to the Prime Minister to commemorate the visit of the Apollo 11 astronauts. The rock was clearly presented as a rock from the moon.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 04:31:24 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2011, 12:47:51 PM »
They could be meteorites?

How many meteorites are made out of petrified wood?

Sounds like you need to RTFA.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 12:51:01 PM by Tom Bishop »

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General Disarray

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Re: NASA
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2011, 01:07:41 PM »
I don't see anything about the origin of the rock on there.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2011, 01:19:45 PM »
I don't see anything about the origin of the rock on there.

Like hoppy said above, it doesn't make any sense that they would present a rock they found in their back yard or on the side of the road to the Prime Minister to commemorate the visit of the Apollo 11 astronauts. The rock was clearly presented as a rock from the moon.

Re: NASA
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2011, 01:31:57 PM »
It also doesn't make sense that they used a lump of wood instead of a lump of rock from the earth.

It's a lot more convincing.

Re: NASA
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2011, 01:33:33 PM »
How do we know that was the original 'thing' that went with that note?

It could have been anything.

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markjo

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Re: NASA
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2011, 01:43:44 PM »
I don't see anything about the origin of the rock on there.

Like hoppy said above, it doesn't make any sense that they would present a rock they found in their back yard or on the side of the road to the Prime Minister to commemorate the visit of the Apollo 11 astronauts. The rock was clearly presented as a rock from the moon.

Unless you can provide documentation as to the actual origin of the rock in question, all anyone can do is speculate and speculation is not for proper Zetetics.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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berny_74

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Re: NASA
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2011, 01:46:23 PM »
How do we know that was the original 'thing' that went with that note?

It could have been anything.

Maybe the former Prime Minister (he was not the Prime Minister at the time of the gift) who showed a great deal of curiosity in the rock replaced it so he could keep it himself and be interred with it.  Thats almost 20 years of it being out of contact with anybody except the owner.

Berny
Thinks Conspiracy Theories are for wimps - part II
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2011, 03:47:28 PM »
It also doesn't make sense that they used a lump of wood instead of a lump of rock from the earth.

It's a lot more convincing.

Yes, it would be more convincing.

They probably figured that since they were claiming that moon rocks were identical in composition to earth rocks that any old rock on the side of the road would do. They forgot that not everything that looks and feels as hard as a rock is a rock. Petrified wood may feel as hard as a a rock, but it is not a rock. Shame on NASA for being so careless with their hoaxery.

Unless you can provide documentation as to the actual origin of the rock in question, all anyone can do is speculate and speculation is not for proper Zetetics.

The man who gave it to the Prime Minister, Ex-US Ambassador William Middendorf, is still alive. He didn't mention that "oh, it's not a moon rock" to Dutch Broadcaster NOS News when questioned on it. If he had it would have been put into the article.

It was clearly presented as a moon rock. All of these constant RE excuses are really quite unbecoming. One excuse after the next to deflect admission of NASA's scam.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 04:19:28 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: NASA
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2011, 04:36:59 PM »
Petrified wood may feel as hard as a a rock, but it is not a rock. Shame on NASA for being so careless with their hoaxery.

Actually Tom, petrified wood is rock.  That's what petrified means.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood
Petrified wood (from the Greek root petro meaning "rock" or "stone"; literally "wood turned into stone") is the name given to a special type of fossilized remains of terrestrial vegetation. It is the result of a tree having turned completely into stone by the process of permineralization.

Unless you can provide documentation as to the actual origin of the rock in question, all anyone can do is speculate and speculation is not for proper Zetetics.

The man who gave it to the Prime Minister, Ex-US Ambassador William Middendorf, is still alive. He didn't mention that "oh, it's not a moon rock" to Dutch Broadcaster NOS News when questioned on it. If he had it would have been put into the article.

Did Mr. Middendorf confirm that it was indeed a moon rock that he presented?  Did he even confirm that the rock in question is the one that he presented?  Again Tom, it's not Zetetic to make assumptions.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2011, 04:45:48 PM »
Petrified wood may feel as hard as a a rock, but it is not a rock. Shame on NASA for being so careless with their hoaxery.

Actually Tom, petrified wood is rock.  That's what petrified means.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood
Petrified wood (from the Greek root petro meaning "rock" or "stone"; literally "wood turned into stone") is the name given to a special type of fossilized remains of terrestrial vegetation. It is the result of a tree having turned completely into stone by the process of permineralization.

It's not the sort of rock which people think of when they hear the term "rock".

Nothing like that would be on the moon's surface.

Quote
Did Mr. Middendorf confirm that it was indeed a moon rock that he presented?  Did he even confirm that the rock in question is the one that he presented?  Again Tom, it's not Zetetic to make assumptions.

In the article it says that Dutch Broadcaster NOS News questioned Middendorf on the subject.

If Middendorf had mentioned "oh, but it wasn't from the moon" it would have been newsworthy.

Stop making frivolous excuses in an attempt to salvage NASA's credibility. Worthless and frivolous excuses are extremely unbecoming.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 04:55:36 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2011, 04:59:33 PM »
The Telegraph has another picture of this "Moon Rock".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html



In the Telegraph article Middendorf very clearly implies that the rock was presented as a rock from the moon:

Quote
J. William Middendorf, the former American ambassador to the Netherlands, made the presentation to Mr Drees and the rock was then donated to the Rijksmuseum after his death in 1988.

"I do remember that Drees was very interested in the little piece of stone. But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that," Mr Middendorf said.

In this Providence Journal article Middendorf has another quote for us:

http://newsblog.projo.com/2009/08/moon-rock-equal.html

Quote
The former ambassador said the rock must have come either from the State Department or directly from the astronauts. "If it came from the astronauts I would have thought it would be perfectly OK," he added.

As we can see, Ex-Ambassador Middendorf was under the impression that the little red rock given to Prime Minister Drees was a rock from the moon.

How he could so blindly trust the word of some astronauts, how naive!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 05:23:07 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: NASA
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2011, 05:28:18 PM »
Tom, are you 100% sure that the rock in question the same rock that was presented to Mr. Drees in 1968?  Is there any chance that Mr. Drees (or someone else) may have switched the original rock with a piece of petrified wood?  Is it really inconceivable that such a rare and priceless artifact could have been stolen and replaced with a similar looking rock?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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General Disarray

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Re: NASA
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2011, 06:26:57 PM »
So all you have is speculation, I see.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.