How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth

  • 653 Replies
  • 163989 Views
*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30499
  • +0/-0
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #390 on: July 07, 2010, 06:08:01 PM »
This is ludicrous.  Evolution is the change in allele frequency over time.  Raist is right.  I've heard people define evolution as the survival of a gene pool, not the individual.  If I cannot find this exact definition in Webster's it does not mean that it's incorrect (Though one could make the argument that it's definitively incorrect, but that's just an argument of semantics).  

A PHD in biology will give the definition I gave word for word. Which is enough for me at least considering no one here comes close.
PHDs in biology have published definitions. Why is it that all the PHDs you talk with disagree with the published definitions, and yet, do not publish their findings themselves?

Nobody is saying that the change in allele frequency is not a part of Evolution. It is just not all of Evolution.

Your argument is like when I say that a car is a set of tires, because all other things I think about when I discuss a car are caused or cause the tires to be as they are. My argument is (sort of) right, but the tires are just one part of the car.


No. My argument is "a car is a 4 wheeled device that gets you places using an internal combustion engine." You are then saying "IT IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT. IT USES SPARK PLUGS AND A RADIATOR."



Please refrain from using the fallacy appeal to ridicule.

I wasn't using a fallacy appeal. I gave a simplified analogy to show where his logic breaks down. His analogy was the fallacious one. And I'm sorry I used caps, but the last time I checked capitalization does not a fallacy make.

You present his argument in a way that makes it seem ridiculous, thus it is an appeal to ridicule.

Uh... I actually gave a perfect analogy.

I said evolution is the change in allele frequency. He quoted something saying "It is caused by two opposing forces that either increase or decrease the amount of each allele in the population"

Increasing and decreasing is changing the amount. Correct?

My analogy is correct.

*

Catchpa

  • 1018
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #391 on: July 07, 2010, 06:32:31 PM »
An appeal to ridicule does not have to contain a lie.

My accusation is correct.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30499
  • +0/-0
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #392 on: July 07, 2010, 06:56:24 PM »
An appeal to ridicule does not have to contain a lie.

My accusation is correct.

His statement was ridiculous. I pointed it out as so. That is not a fallacy.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #393 on: July 07, 2010, 07:32:37 PM »

PHDs in biology have published definitions. Why is it that all the PHDs you talk with disagree with the published definitions, and yet, do not publish their findings themselves?

Nobody is saying that the change in allele frequency is not a part of Evolution. It is just not all of Evolution.

Your argument is like when I say that a car is a set of tires, because all other things I think about when I discuss a car are caused or cause the tires to be as they are. My argument is (sort of) right, but the tires are just one part of the car.


No. My argument is "a car is a 4 wheeled device that gets you places using an internal combustion engine." You are then saying "IT IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT. IT USES SPARK PLUGS AND A RADIATOR."



Please refrain from using the fallacy appeal to ridicule.

I wasn't using a fallacy appeal. I gave a simplified analogy to show where his logic breaks down. His analogy was the fallacious one. And I'm sorry I used caps, but the last time I checked capitalization does not a fallacy make.

You present his argument in a way that makes it seem ridiculous, thus it is an appeal to ridicule.

An appeal to ridicule does not have to contain a lie.

My accusation is correct.

Don't call fallacy if you don't know what it is.

Quote
Appeal to ridicule is a logical fallacy which presents the opponent's argument in a way that appears ridiculous, often to the extent of creating a straw man of the actual argument, rather than addressing the argument itself.

Raist was making a perfectly fine analogy. He didn't create a strawman, and he didn't make anything ridiculous. He was making a point that required an example.

My biology professor (who got his Ph.D. at Harvard) gave the definition of evolution as the change in allele frequencies in a population. The mechanisms for evolution are obviously far more complex, but at its most basic level, that is all he said it was.
And we should believe you because... why exactly?

You have a history of reasonable, well thought posts, which is a lot better than you can see on Pongo's or Raist's posts, so I am willing to accept your word. Anyway, you also felt the need to to explain that this is the "most basic level", so I imagine you also feel that this definition does not give enough information.

I would agree with this definition. Though it is what people call microevolution, overtime, the small changes can eventually lead to the altered species so different that they can no longer mate succefully (with fertile offspring) with the original species and boom. New species.


Can we please get back on track now that Catchpa successfully derailed this thread with his irrelevant low-content posts?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 07:37:17 PM by EnglshGentleman »

?

Raiku

  • 118
  • +0/-0
  • War Squirrel.
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #394 on: July 07, 2010, 08:14:40 PM »
Okay sure.  Here's what I don't get:
He states that flying N/S is more efficient than flying around the edge of the disk, so since birds fly N/S, the Earth is flat.  But doesn't E/W not matter at all, because birds are only trying to get to higher or lower latitudes anyway?  Shouldn't going directly N/S be most efficient in both models?
I hope I explained myself well...
I guess all humans have mental problems since we believe the Earth exists...

*

Catchpa

  • 1018
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #395 on: July 08, 2010, 05:55:23 AM »
An appeal to ridicule does not have to contain a lie.

My accusation is correct.

Don't call fallacy if you don't know what it is.

Quote
Appeal to ridicule is a logical fallacy which presents the opponent's argument in a way that appears ridiculous, often to the extent of creating a straw man of the actual argument, rather than addressing the argument itself.

Raist was making a perfectly fine analogy. He didn't create a strawman, and he didn't make anything ridiculous. He was making a point that required an example.

"often to the extend". Obviously you don't know what often means, but I'll leave it at that and just tell you to use Wilmores favorite site to educate yourself.

The way he said it with caps lock was obviously meant to make his point appear ridiculous. If the quote actually was said in caps, sure it would've been justified.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 05:57:13 AM by Catchpa »
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #396 on: July 14, 2010, 02:42:57 AM »
Okay sure.  Here's what I don't get:
He states that flying N/S is more efficient than flying around the edge of the disk, so since birds fly N/S, the Earth is flat.  But doesn't E/W not matter at all, because birds are only trying to get to higher or lower latitudes anyway?  Shouldn't going directly N/S be most efficient in both models?
I hope I explained myself well...

I did not understand this question.  Does anyone have a translation?

?

lawlage

  • 5
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #397 on: July 16, 2010, 07:36:34 PM »
Evolution favors the individual that can best adapt to its environment.  This superior adaptability translates to more successful genes being passed onto its offspring until such a time that the species' gene pool is saturated with only the best genes.
Actually, evolution favors individuals that are best adapted to their environment. Natural selection acts only on existing diversity, you cannot create new traits, they must already exist unless they were brought about by mutation. Anyway, your argument is flawed in the fact that the Earth is proven to be round, so the birds that you used as evidence are clearly able to migrate on a round Earth.

?

Gordonrox24

  • 12
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #398 on: July 22, 2010, 03:14:54 PM »
Up high there is a slip stream of air. It's easy flying. Doesn't mean the earth is flat...

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #399 on: July 23, 2010, 12:39:39 AM »
Evolution favors the individual that can best adapt to its environment.  This superior adaptability translates to more successful genes being passed onto its offspring until such a time that the species' gene pool is saturated with only the best genes.
Actually, evolution favors individuals that are best adapted to their environment. Natural selection acts only on existing diversity, you cannot create new traits, they must already exist unless they were brought about by mutation. Anyway, your argument is flawed in the fact that the Earth is proven to be round, so the birds that you used as evidence are clearly able to migrate on a round Earth.

I read your post several times and I think that you are assuming that I am saying that a species changes to match it's environment.  As if it were a conscience decision.  If I am wrong in that guess, then I have no idea what you are trying to say.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #400 on: October 17, 2010, 11:43:55 PM »
This thread diminished into semantics. I shall revive it with some of it's original integrity so we can discuss this matter further.

P.S. What a beautiful coincidence for this to be on a fresh page.

Here is a photo of a company that is attempting to lure birds to their plane so they can easily catch and tether them to it thus reducing the costs of having to catch and train them.


Peregrine falcons also can reach speeds up to 170 mph, it is not unlikely that for small passenger planes a few of these creatures are used for the main system of flight.



« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 08:43:04 AM by EnglshGentleman »

*

ClockTower

  • 6455
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #401 on: October 18, 2010, 12:15:20 AM »
This thread diminished into semantics. I shall revive it with some of it's original integrity so we can discuss this matter further.

P.S. What a beautiful coincidence for this to be on a fresh page.

Here is a photo of a company that is attempting to lure birds to their plane so they can easily catch and tether them to it thus reducing the costs of having to catch and train them.

Peregrine falcons also can reach speeds up to 170 mph, it is not unlikely that for small passenger planes a few of these creatures are not used for the main system of flight.




Wow! A whole company in one photo. It's amazing. Maybe though, you have that wrong, and a lot more.

Wow! triple negatives in one half of a comma splice. No wonder this thread devolved.

So.. It is likely that for small passenger planes, creatures are not used. Got it. Makes sense now. You got nothing, again.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45158
  • +98/-136
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #402 on: October 18, 2010, 07:39:18 AM »
This thread diminished into semantics. I shall revive it with some of it's original integrity so we can discuss this matter further.

P.S. What a beautiful coincidence for this to be on a fresh page.

Here is a photo of a company that is attempting to lure birds to their plane so they can easily catch and tether them to it thus reducing the costs of having to catch and train them.


Peregrine falcons also can reach speeds up to 170 mph, it is not unlikely that for small passenger planes a few of these creatures are not used for the main system of flight.
I'm sorry but how is a bird that can reach 170 mph (in a dive) supposed to help push planes that cruise at more than 200 mph?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #403 on: October 18, 2010, 08:46:30 AM »
I'll just ignore ClockTower's trolling. Nobody was pedantic about these sort of things a few months ago except for Parsifal, but people just ignored him.

@Markjo

They would use genetically enhanced falcons, and no, they wouldn't be pushing the planes, they'd be pulling them.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 08:48:43 AM by EnglshGentleman »

?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5032
  • +0/-0
  • Magic specialist
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #404 on: October 18, 2010, 09:28:33 AM »
They would use genetically enhanced falcons, and no, they wouldn't be pushing the planes, they'd be pulling them.

Sounds like a bunch of conjecture to me. Where is your proof?
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #405 on: October 18, 2010, 09:33:36 AM »
The proof is in the flight times. Lurk moar.  ;)

?

Thork

Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #406 on: October 18, 2010, 09:39:00 AM »
Birds help out aviators all the time.


Here is a load pulling a jet on some thin string.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 09:41:21 AM by Thork »

?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5032
  • +0/-0
  • Magic specialist
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #407 on: October 18, 2010, 09:42:11 AM »
So no evidence then?
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #408 on: October 18, 2010, 09:43:45 AM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

*

berny_74

  • 1785
  • +0/-0
  • The IceWall! Beat that
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #409 on: October 18, 2010, 09:47:02 AM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

How about the same evidence you Lord Wilmore would accept proving the world is round?

Berny
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

*

Hessy

  • 1184
  • +0/-0
  • My alts: Edgeworth, any/all spambots
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #410 on: October 18, 2010, 09:48:15 AM »
Birds help out aviators all the time.


Here is a load pulling a jet on some thin string.


Quote from: FAQ
PLEASE NOTE: This means that pictures ... DO NOT CONSTITUTE VALID PROOF.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #411 on: October 18, 2010, 10:02:47 AM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

How about the same evidence you Lord Wilmore would accept proving the world is round?

Berny


Irrelevant. We are talking about the evidence required for birds pulling planes. Photographic evidence seems to be rejected, so what do you want?

*

berny_74

  • 1785
  • +0/-0
  • The IceWall! Beat that
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #412 on: October 18, 2010, 10:14:44 AM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

How about the same evidence you Lord Wilmore would accept proving the world is round?

Berny


Irrelevant. We are talking about the evidence required for birds pulling planes. Photographic evidence seems to be rejected, so what do you want?

Recorded testamonials from the birds themselves.  Vetted by a known neutral hollow earth believer.

Berny
smells like garlic
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5032
  • +0/-0
  • Magic specialist
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #413 on: October 18, 2010, 11:02:05 AM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

I require verifiable evidence of birds visibly pulling planes for the purpose of propelling them at speeds much higher than would normally be possible.

Thork is a pilot, surely he could take a picture of such a thing from his plane!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 11:10:28 AM by General Disarray »
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

?

Thork

Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #414 on: October 18, 2010, 11:12:44 AM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

I require verifiable evidence of birds visibly pulling planes.

Thork is a pilot, surely he could take a picture of such a thing from his plane!
I would have done that for you, but I just lost my job. I'm gonna miss those guys. Donald and Pippa (two Canada geese) used to pull my aircraft. I hope the new pilot will look after them. Donald likes his wings massaged after a hard day's pulling. Pippa is seed-intolerant. I left instructions for the new pilots, but you love 'pulling birds' like your own children after a while.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #415 on: October 18, 2010, 11:14:09 AM »
Recorded testimonials from the birds themselves.  Vetted by a known neutral hollow earth believer.

These are fair terms. I shall get on it immediately.

@GD so you are saying that photographic evidence is allowed? Hessy disagrees with you, I don't know who to go with!

I don't know if you meant that as a below the belt bunch or not, but Thork recently lost his job and doesn't fly planes anymore.

I would have done that for you, but I just lost my job. I'm gonna miss those guys. Donald and Pippa (two Canada geese) used to pull my aircraft. I hope the new pilot will look after them. Donald likes his wings massaged after a hard day's pulling. Pippa is seed-intolerant. I left instructions for the new pilots, but you love 'pulling birds' like your own children after a while.

I love you. :)

?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5032
  • +0/-0
  • Magic specialist
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #416 on: October 18, 2010, 11:19:49 AM »
If the image can be verified as authentic, I see no problem with using photographic evidence personally.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45158
  • +98/-136
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #417 on: October 18, 2010, 11:38:32 AM »
They would use genetically enhanced falcons, and no, they wouldn't be pushing the planes, they'd be pulling them.

Hmm...  It would be interesting to do a cost-benefit analysis of raising flocks of genetically engineered birds to pull airliners.  However, I can't see how it would be possible for even genetically engineered birds to fly fast enough to possibly do any good pulling an airplane.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9533
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #418 on: October 18, 2010, 11:40:18 AM »
They would use genetically enhanced falcons, and no, they wouldn't be pushing the planes, they'd be pulling them.

Hmm...  It would be interesting to do a cost-benefit analysis of raising flocks of genetically engineered birds to pull airliners.

Lets take a look, shall we? Having to make progressively better planes, or having genetically engineered birds that are trained to fly to destinations.


Plane
Costs: Having to re engineer planes and thus spending millions of dollars in production and research in new materials and systems.

Benefits: Over the short term it won't cost as much and you would not have to build storage space for their homes and upkeep. You also would not have to pay to find a substance for them.

                                                                                                                                                                 

Plane+Birds
Costs: Upfront it would cost a great deal to find a adequate substance to give the birds the drive to help pull your plane. Also upkeep of the birds and such.

Benefits: Over the long run you would save money as the birds would evolve to fly faster and faster so they can recieve what they crave at their destination quicker. There would be no need to re engineer planes as evolution would make your planes move faster. In fact, they birds would most likely grow stronger as well meaning you could make the planes lighter saving more money.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 11:42:44 AM by EnglshGentleman »

*

ClockTower

  • 6455
  • +0/-0
Re: How Evolution Proves a Flat Earth
« Reply #419 on: October 18, 2010, 12:55:03 PM »
So no evidence then?

What do you require as evidence? You are starting to sound like sillyrob, asking for evidence, but then not accepting it when it is given.

I require verifiable evidence of birds visibly pulling planes.

Thork is a pilot, surely he could take a picture of such a thing from his plane!
I would have done that for you, but I just lost my job. I'm gonna miss those guys. Donald and Pippa (two Canada geese) used to pull my aircraft. I hope the new pilot will look after them. Donald likes his wings massaged after a hard day's pulling. Pippa is seed-intolerant. I left instructions for the new pilots, but you love 'pulling birds' like your own children after a while.
Shame on you for lying.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards