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Messages - Mammon

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1
Flat Earth Q&A / Quick question
« on: April 17, 2010, 02:02:05 AM »
Hey guys, not sure if this one's been done already..

Why is it that a sky diver falls slower once his parachute is deployed? If the FES theory on gravity were true then the speed of the fall would be no different to as if he were just free falling due to the earth beneath him moving upward at a constant speed.

The reason why parachutes work is because they fight the force of gravity using the density of our atmosphere which is catches (thus it's mushroom design) to slowly bring the sky diver to earth.

Maybe I'm missing something and haven't overlooked this properly from a FES point of view.

PS. I haven't looked over the FAQ fully.

2
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: is there an edge on this so called flat earth
« on: October 31, 2009, 01:44:48 PM »
No, it does not.  Some others believe it does, however.

SO it's round then.. Or else that makes no sense.

3
Flat Earth Q&A / The Earths edge?
« on: October 04, 2009, 09:48:28 PM »
OKOK, I've started a new thread on the edge of the Earth because this stumps me more than a flat Earth within the FET.

Why has the edge of the Earth never been discovered? Because it's an infinite plane? If so, how? Proof? Doesn't that seem a little more far fetched than a round Earth? (not that I think a round Earth is far fetched)

How can any surface be infinitely long? That's absolutely ridiculous! The only way that would be possible is if you started from one point and did a full cycle to that point again, repeating for eternity.

I am aware that not all of the FES believe in the infinite plan theory. What do you believe then? What happens when you get to the wall and try cross it?

Are you going to say: "you just can't because it's to high?"

That again would be just as ridiculous IMO.

I'm confused :(

4
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: If its flat, weres the edge?
« on: October 02, 2009, 12:57:29 AM »
So you're telling me if I keep heading east or west I'll reach the ice wall?

Why is it that there's an ice wall in the first place? How? Seems a bit convenient to your theory.

5
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Really Confused
« on: August 24, 2009, 02:30:23 AM »
Ok guys this flat earth thing has me stumped. Have any of you every been on a plane? You can see the curvature of the earth when you are up that high. Also having climbed Ben Nevis I can personally confirm that the earth is round as you can see it curve from the peak. Care to prove my life experiences wrong? Please do. I just can't see how people can believe the earth is flat in this day and age.

Also I wanted to add that in addition to the placebo effect that Robosteve mentioned, many people who think they've seen the "curvature" of the earth have actually just seen its round (curved) edge.

Its round curved edge? Didn't see no ice wall..

What?

What?? Are you serious? If I was to see the edge of the Earth, wouldn't the "ice wall" be visible?

6
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Really Confused
« on: August 23, 2009, 04:57:57 PM »
Ok guys this flat earth thing has me stumped. Have any of you every been on a plane? You can see the curvature of the earth when you are up that high. Also having climbed Ben Nevis I can personally confirm that the earth is round as you can see it curve from the peak. Care to prove my life experiences wrong? Please do. I just can't see how people can believe the earth is flat in this day and age.

Also I wanted to add that in addition to the placebo effect that Robosteve mentioned, many people who think they've seen the "curvature" of the earth have actually just seen its round (curved) edge.

Its round curved edge? Didn't see no ice wall..

7
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Disproving the Flat Earth Theorists
« on: July 29, 2009, 02:37:37 AM »

Lol forget it Curtis.

Everything you say or question has a come back to another crazy theory to cover it up. Yet we are the ones (RE) that need to provide the evidence because living on a ROUND (lol wtf we'll fall off) planet is so damn crazy, we live on a flat one instead. No gravity doesn't exist (wtf the planet is a big magnet, crazy), no, we are just f*cking flying upward all the time which makes WAY more sense. We're also surrounded by an EVERLASTING ice wall.

Our non planet piece of dirt that we live on is also larger than the sun, which of course is not round either but a flat pane of gold or bronze which just so happens to be facing us directly making it LOOK round (JESES LOL NOWUNDAH!) We also have a moon that projects its OWN light. That makes a lot more sense than living on a ROUND (lol wtf we'll fall off) planet don't you think?

8
Flat Earth Debate / Re: How are these fake?
« on: June 24, 2009, 01:02:05 AM »
Here is a discussion of how the Chinese fake their space missions:

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=528.0

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=609.

LOL these were training exercises.. OMFG.

9
Flat Earth General / Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« on: June 21, 2009, 12:59:11 AM »
Robosteve, judging from your posts you come across as someone believing in the FET because you don't like thinking like the rest of us. Even though you might, at the back of your head or deep down inside believe the earth is round, that would make you think like the rest of the world, and you just can't stand that.

This is how I read you, label you, nothing personal.

And for the conspiracies, what would this website, the books published on the FET be without a flat earth? This is more like the conspiracy. Every idea has it's own benefits, this is just another one of those.

10
Flat Earth Debate / Re: The pigeonhole, get in it.
« on: June 09, 2009, 03:06:56 AM »
It is my guess that there are no intellectuals, women, or indeed any heterosexuals among the ranks of round earthers. So in essence, it is an establishment of retarded sodomites who have fantasized for so long that they've begun to believe their fantasies. They've created shams and mockeries to defend their travesties. Yet, by their own claim, will do no footwork to prove them or seek the truth otherwise.

If you lived on top of Mt. Everest, and looked out your window, you would see the utter lack of curvature ... so enough with the "enough with the 'look out your window, what do you see', b.s.".

If something isn't obvious, they'll state what is, and fabricate reasons for what isn't. They deny all knowledgeable claims made by credible sources that may threaten their reality. They'll use "NASA", answer with questions, and make excuses... all to stale-mate a debate and avoid having to give a good answer or admit being wrong.

They're probably all individuals who like, trust, or are unafraid of sexual progress, including any manner of large men in tight leather pants.

Willful Consent is their prerogative.

Amirite?

Either that, or they all actually know the earth is flat, and we all be postin' in a TROLL THREAD THAT SHOULD BE MOVED TO ANGRY RANTING.

WTF? Is that your come back? Copy/Paste/Edit?

Weak as usual.

11
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« on: June 05, 2009, 12:31:21 AM »
Quote
GIVE IT UP.  You have no proof for bending light.

We can clearly wee more of the ship's hull when we increase our altitude. This is evidence that light bends upwards.

LOL? We can see more of the hull because we can see over the curvature of the earth.. It's as simple as that.

Making up theories that light bends upwards is a typical and poor attempt to try make your silly flat earth theory work.

12
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Oceans in RET
« on: April 28, 2009, 01:07:37 AM »
Robo steve, the ocean has already occupied the spaces of where the gravity is stronger thus it can't all move to that one spot LOL.

He already gave examples of places with higher gravity that were not occupied by the ocean according to round earth theory. Please pay attention.

I don't understand.. So if one part of the ocean has a higher gravity than another then you'll find more water in that spot? That's sounds ridiculous, and if there were places that the ocean didn't occupy, us RET call it LAND.

13
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Oceans in RET
« on: April 25, 2009, 03:27:11 PM »
Robo steve, the ocean has already occupied the spaces of where the gravity is stronger thus it can't all move to that one spot LOL.

14
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Weight
« on: April 10, 2009, 05:30:16 PM »
Oops,  I smell failure.

The effect of the acceleration is exactly the same for gravity.  If something is more dense then it would weigh more in either theory.

You fail, that explanation to my questions fails. GG.

15
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Weight
« on: April 10, 2009, 04:13:22 PM »
Um, the reason an object is heavier than another is due to the downward force of gravity which is pulling harder towards the earth as there is more density in the heavier object. For example lead is heavier then gold because gravity has more influence on it as it's more dense than gold.

If there were no such thing as gravity every object on earth would weigh depending on the speed of the acceleration of the earth.

Why would it work the same way as gravity? That doesn't make sense.. It's easy to just say "oh it just works that way" as to cover up yet another flaw in your theory.

16
Flat Earth Q&A / Weight
« on: April 10, 2009, 03:48:20 PM »
If the earth is constantly moving upward giving the illusion of gravity then what makes one object heavier than another? This is explained by gravity having more influence on an object due to it's density amount.

With the flat earth theory, surly if the earth were just simply moving upward then this shouldn't cause any weight differences between objects. They would all weigh the same. Wouldn't they?

17
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: "Flat Earth" Facts Contradict One Another
« on: April 06, 2009, 03:32:48 AM »
Science does not work by conclusively and indisputably refuting bad hypotheses.  Instead, hypotheses stand or fail on their ability to
explain known observations, and to predict the outcome of observations that haven't been performed yet.  Let's take the flat Earth
versus round earth hypotheses as an example.  A round earth is the most stable shape according to gravitational theory; a flat Earth would tend to collapse toward the center, and people standing near the edges would feel a gravitational pull toward the center of the flat surface instead of perpendicular to the surface. 

FE believers could counter that gravitational theory is wrong; magic holds us to the Earth. This may be true, but it doesn't explain why
gravitational theory works so well at explaining how things fall, and the observed trajectories of the planets and their moons.
You could tell FE believers that photographs of the Earth from space show that it is round. 
FE believers could counter that those photographs are government fakes.  Perhaps so, but we can see that other planets and moons are round; wouldn't it make more sense to say that the Earth is round, too?  FE believers could say that the earth is special and different.
You could ask how numerous people have sailed or flown around the earth if the Earth is flat.  FE believers would have to say that every one of these people, separated as they are in time and space, belongs to the same great conspiracy aimed at brainwashing us into supposing that the earth is round.  You could ask FE believers about the communications networks that are linked by satellite - how can you have satellites orbiting a flat Earth?  FE believers might then tell you that there really aren't any satellite links - everything is
connected by wires, or a close-packed array of relay antennas.

FE believers could go on and on.  As you see, there is no single fact you could tell FE believers that he couldn't dispute in some way.  If you step back and look at it, though, what kind of world would it have to be if FE believers were right?
Gravity doesn't function here like it does everywhere else in the solar system, there's a huge conspiracy reaching across hundreds of years to convince us (for no apparent reason) that the Earth is round instead of flat, the progression of the seasons, and even of day and night, are controlled by the gods. Eventually, a reasonable person would have to concede that it would make a lot more sense to agree that the Earth is indeed round.

There are some other theories to explain things that do not meet this test of scientific reasonableness, yet are still put forth and defended by many people in society.  This example of the flat Earth hypothesis lets you see how difficult it is to change someone's mind when they're set on some strange or unrealistic theory.  It also lets you see that just if a theory "can't be dis proven" doesn't necessarily mean that it is correct, or that it should be taken seriously for very long.

============================================================
Three arguments come to mind.  All of these date back to Greek times or
earlier.

1.  During lunar eclipses, the projected shadow of the Earth on the moon is always round.  If the Earth were flat, then this projection will not always be circular (it could degenerate to a line!).  But this is never observed, regardless of the time of the lunar eclipse. Aristotle (384-322 BCE) wrote about this.  The third point, below, is also credited to Aristotle.

2. Eratosthanes (276-195(?) BCE) did a famous experiment on measuring the angle of the sun at noon in Alexandria, Egypt, and in Syrene.  Finding the difference in the angles and knowing the distance between the two points, the circumference can be calculated.  He calculated the circumference in stadia, which we do not know the conversion to our present day measure.

3. If you travel north or south a significant distance, you will see a different set of stars at night.  This will not happen on a flat surface.

Introductory astronomy texts deal with this topic.  A good reference is
George Abell  _Exploration of the Universe_

The next question is:  "Prove that the earth is moving."

=====================================================

I presume FE believers won't accept hearsay evidence (evidence collected by someone else and told to you), such as testimony from
astronauts or folks who have traveled around the world by boat, airplane or balloon.

So here are the standard facts observable by anyone which FE believers would find difficult to explain with a flat Earth hypothesis:

(1) When ships put out to see, they sink below the horizon gradually.
First the hull goes down, then the masts, like so:

                                    o
                                 --+--
                                    |
                                .  / \   .
                    .                              .
              .                                         .                 /
           .          here you can still see the mast .  |\   /
                      but the hull is below the horizon   \ \/
                                                                     \ \   
                                                                      \ \
This suggests that the Earth's surface curves away and downward from wherever you stand.  It's hard to observe this effect on land, because mountains and trees and so forth get in the way when something moves away from you before it dips below the horizon.

(2) If you climb higher, you can see further.  On top of a mountain or lighthouse, or in an airplane, you can see things that are invisible
-- below the horizon -- when you are on the ground.  For example, if you watch the Sun set, and at the very moment when the Sun is just below the horizon you climb quickly up a hundred feet, you will see the Sun again.  It is hard to explain why you can see further when you climb higher unless the Earth's surface curves downward away from you
wherever you stand.

(3) The Earth casts a shadow on the Moon during a lunar eclipse.  The shadow is round.

(4) When the Sun is directly overhead in any place, it is NOT directly overhead at the same time in any place a few hundred miles away:

       Sun's rays are parallel because the Sun is very far away.

     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
     V   V  V  V   V   V   V  V   V  V   V  V   V   V  V   V


                     this stick  ||
                     casts no   ||
                      shadow   ||                  this stick
                                   ||                  casts a shadow
                                .       .
                    .                              .           //.
              .                                         .     //..
           .                                               . //....
                                                            //.....
         .                     EARTH                        ....
                                                                 ...

If you were to put a stick in the ground sticking straight up at noon in New York City, then telephone a friend in Chicago to ask him to
also put a stick in the ground sticking straight up, he would see a shadow, and you would not.  This is hard to explain unless ``straight
up'' (away from the Earth's surface) points in different directions when you are at different places on the Earth's surface.  That is, the
Earth is not flat.

(5) If you travel North, you can see stars at night which you never saw before.  Since there are so many stars, you only need to travel a hundred miles or so.  The new stars are stars that were hidden below the horizon before you walked North.  How could this be true if the Earth were flat?

(6) There are tides in the oceans, which you can see at the shore, that repeat every 24 hours or so.  If the Earth were flat, then there
would be no tides, because the tides depend on their being a substantial distance between the near and far sides of the Earth, from
the point of view of the Moon.  This is kind of complicated, however.

By the way, if you look at the stars, the sun, and the moon, you do not see  any of them to be non-round.  Since you observe them at different times and from different angles, it seems plausible to say that they are round. Why should the Earth be an exception?

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: December 21, 2012.
« on: April 02, 2009, 06:52:43 PM »
Heard of Planet X? Nibiru?

According to ancient litriture from many races and nationalities, in the year 2012 on December 22st this planet, Nibiru (Planet X) will aline itself between the earth and the sun, completing a full orbit causing havok on earth due to it's gravitational effect.

This planet completes its orbit every 3600 years, making 22/12/2012 the 3600th year.

On this planet giant beings live that visited earth thousands of years ago who helped build the pyramids and other great historical landmarks with technology hundreds of years ahead of it's time, surpassing even todays technology.

Something like that, google it :D

19
Flat Earth Q&A / NASA got away with it?
« on: April 02, 2009, 02:16:54 AM »
So basically from what I gather, NASA is lying as to gain financially and has gotten away with it..

NASA as we know are an American space program.

What about other foreign, competitive space programs from Russia and China? Wouldn't they have bust NASA by now? Surely that would be in their best interest to do so, proving they didn't lose the space race after all.

Why, even after the first space flight (which FE's don't believe is possible) do American and foreign space programs keep spending billions on space crafts/rockets and launching them into space?

Surely if space flight wasn't possible they would have stopped a long time ago and the news would have got out? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to prove your competitor wrong?

Why would other countries invest on BILLIONS on something that's supposedly impossible? How would that be beneficial an any way? 

If you think about it the first news of space flight came out more than approximately 40 YEARS AGO and within that 40 years the world has spent roughly TRILLIONS on space technology.

So.. If this isn't possible, please it's really mind boggling, just like all your theories, why?




20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Scientology
« on: April 02, 2009, 01:04:54 AM »
Scientology is made up pooh's by some dude who used to write science fiction novels and had a drinking problem.

So that's where your money's going, into that dudes idea, gl hf. 

21
Flat Earth Debate / Re: "Falling" towards the earth
« on: March 29, 2009, 05:55:37 PM »
So if the earth is continually moving upwards why don't the clouds just fall the earths surface, surely they too can't me moving upwards to as they're only bodies of condensation..

22
Flat Earth Debate / a real picture of the earth
« on: March 28, 2009, 03:06:26 PM »
Can I please start with saying, as hard as this is to accept for FE's, this is not fake. A REAL picture taken from a space station.

If you claim that this is fake then that's just convenient isn't it? Just like all your other explanations on why the earth is flat, all just convenient answers to support your FE conspiracies.   




23
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Something doesnt add up
« on: March 28, 2009, 03:18:21 AM »
LOL FE's argument to insufficient evidence is due to a lack of resources and funding.. So then that proves you don't in fact have any evidence as you admit you can't provide it because you don't have the means.. So then why believe in FE?

We're not the ones that need the evidence, you do.

That flat earth map, it's flawed in so many ways.. Flying from New Zealand to South America should take DAYS according to it when it took me only a few hours.. Oh and at least make yours a little more realistic.. 3D or some sh*t..


24
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Proof of a round earth?
« on: January 04, 2009, 03:41:32 PM »
There are a multitude of methods in which any one can prove that the earth is a sphere. These are the most common.

You can launch a rocket to a high altitude and take pictures of the earth (which various government agencies and private groups have already done thousands of times in the past), but that isn't the most practical way. Pictures and videos taken by orbiting satellites and space stations are certainly the most definitive proof that the earth is a sphere.

But if you're not convinced, read on...

You can also observe, with binoculars, ships slowly 'sinking' below the horizon as it sails farther and farther out to the ocean, then watch them come back. They certainly didn't fall off the edge of the earth! You can also sail or fly around the world.

The Greeks discovered that the earth is round by observing lunar eclipses (i.e. when the earth blocks the sun from the moon, casting its round shadow on the moon's surface).

Another method is simultaneously measuring the length of the shadows cast by identical poles perpendicular to a flat surface that is tangential to the earth's radius at various, distant locations. If indeed the earth is round, then the shadows should all vary in length from one distant location to another, which means that the angle at which the parallel rays of sunlight struck each pole varied from one location to another. (recall the alternate-angles theorem from Geometry class) If the earth is flat, then the lengths of all the shadows should be identical when measured simultaneously, since all rays of sunlight that strike the earth are parallel. However, they are not identical, but in fact, varies in such a way that the angles indicate a spherical surface. (This was one of the earliest methods to determine the radius of the earth)

Also, keep in mind the 24 hour time zones. When it is noon in Hawaii, it is approximately midnight in the Middle East and vice versa. How can it be noon and midnight simultaneously? It is certainly impossible with a flat earth and a sun millions of times more massive.


25
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: The 2nd TV Transmission from Apollo 11
« on: January 04, 2009, 02:24:31 PM »
If that's not proof that what is? It sure beats what proof they have anyways..

26
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Proof of a round earth?
« on: January 04, 2009, 02:16:21 PM »
Overall there is more proof of a round earth than a flat one.

Flat earth believers base their theory around their own, self made "evidence" or by ancient uncivilized studies and go by that.

Why would the earth being flat be a lie in the first place? I don't see why, and would like to know why.

Why is it that the moon, the sun and every other planet is round on not our own planet? If they were just flat circles then why, every time we see the moon or sun, that it's conveniently facing us head on reveling its round shape? (if that's what you believe)

I'm open minded to pretty much anything, someone hungry for new information and thinking but in my opinion, this is ridiculous.

All your arguments against a earth being a sphere have been extremely weak and unconvincing.




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