ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

I’m skeptical of your claim.

I’m also skeptical of your claim of massive worldwide conspiracies to hide the shape of the earth as well as your brilliance in single handed cracking the secrets of the world around us.

I think that is a demonstration of healthy skepticism, don’t you?

Yep. You are well within your rights to do that and I would not expect anything else.

Do you have a copyright on the denpressure theory? I hope not, because that theory is holier than my steamed vegetables strainer.

Are the steamed one's any different from the boiled ones?

But I digress. The reason I can't drop down to your level, is because I take life seriously. I don't live on fantasy island like you do.

We'll all die one day and I'll die doing what I do and how I do it. That is a mixture of what's required for me to do to navigate life with my family. Mainly fun and experiments and manufacturing. A mixture.
If you want to live your life as Mr serious, go right ahead.

For instance, if the authorities were to warn me that the international space station had upset the orbit of a large satellite, and said large satellite was headed towards earth with a trajectory likely to hit my house before fully burning up, I would appropriately evacuate my house and help evacuate all houses within a radius of my house.

I would too, just to be on the safe side....but, I wouldn't be expecting space stations or space satellites.
Maybe something else in the atmosphere.


 

You on the other hand, if you were to receive the same warning, being a person who does not believe in outer space or satellites, you would scoff, and continue relaxing on your sofa in your lounge room, eating your potato chips.

Nahhhh. It would take me nothing to evacuate my family and friends for the sake of a day or two.
Like I said above, it wouldn't be because I was afraid of a space satellite hitting.

For your force to be used to accelerate that mass, something must also resist your force in order for you to do that.

That object is the thing resisting. You need to explain why it is.

Hypothetically (i.e. not necessarily in reality) it would be possible to have an object not resist at all and instead just accelerate as you push it, without needing any force to do so.

So basically inertia is merely resistance.

Again, it is a very specific type of resistance. A resistance to a change in motion.
You require a force to accelerate it. You require a force to slow it down.

Again, this is fundamentally different to others types of resistance.
For example, air and other fluids resist relative motion. This is where if you try to move through it, you create a pressure gradient and that gradient resists the motion. Notice that this is resistance to relative motion, rather than a change in motion. This resistance is based upon the velocity relative to the fluid and the aerodynamics of the object, and the fluid. This is fundamentally different to resisting a change in motion, which is based upon the mass and the acceleration.

As for me explaining. I can't explain inertia other than to say it is resistance, by what you're putting out.

So you are saying you cannot use the air to explain it at all?
Then why pretend you could?
Why even try claiming that the air causes it when you have literally nothing to support that and cannot use the air to explain it at all?

There's no issue with anything happening under denpressure. It works as we can see.

Except all the problems I have already listed.
The "only" issue is that your denpressure can't explain anything.

I've told you so many times.

No, you have avoided it many times, as you cannot tell us why at all.

You have no justification at all for why the air pushes anything down except when it is on the ground, but that is then contradicted by so many things it isn't funny.

Ok, now I ask you why you feel pressure all around you but your hair seems to wave about.

Because the pressure is pushing from all around, without any significant net force.

Clearly it is hard to understand because you are struggling with it by adding in your fictional gravity.

The only one struggling here is you.
I understand it quite well, and can easily explain how your claims about it are pure BS, as I have done repeatedly.

Again, air applies a force based upon the pressure and area. That means in something like the atmosphere with a pressure gradient with pressure grater at the bottom, the air pushes things up, not down.

But you either cannot understand or refuse to accept that, and instead want to pretend air somehow magically pushes objects down.

It's a theory, not a fact.

Gravity is a physical phenomenon, a part of reality.
The theory of gravity is a theory.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

For instance, if the authorities were to warn me that the international space station had upset the orbit of a large satellite, and said large satellite was headed towards earth with a trajectory likely to hit my house before fully burning up, I would appropriately evacuate my house and help evacuate all houses within a radius of my house.

I would too, just to be on the safe side

Which just shows how little faith you have in your own garbage.
You know it is garbage.
You know you are just rejecting reality.

If you truly believed the garbage you spouted you would think these people are just lying and delusional/mistaken, as you think satellites aren't real, and thus you would stay put.

Quote from: sobchak on February 17, 2021, 04:01:27 PM

I’m skeptical of your claim.

I’m also skeptical of your claim of massive worldwide conspiracies to hide the shape of the earth as well as your brilliance in single handed cracking the secrets of the world around us.

I think that is a demonstration of healthy skepticism, don’t you?

Yep. You are well within your rights to do that and I would not expect anything else.

So you agree that anyone with a healthy sense of skepticism SHOULD be very skeptical of your claims? After all, unevidenced claims of vast, worldwide bizarre and perfect conspiracies, coupled with grand claims of self importance and brilliance -  like you are proposing, are highly questionable and should be rightly dismissed by any rational individual, correct?

There's no issue with anything happening under denpressure. It works as we can see.
The only issue is, how we are told stuff works. Gravity in use is a nonsense.
You don't know what it is but argue for it.

There’s no issue because nothing happens under denpressure. It’s pure fantasy.

That’s why when people design aeroplanes for example, they don’t use denpressure nonsense, but real physics.

If denpressure were real, it would be blindingly obvious from the enormous differences from what we observe, and that’s what we would learn.  But it’s not, so we don’t.

Yep and a theory you agree with without knowing what it is.

Could I politely ask you to stop making judgment about what I do or don't know. If you don't believe in gravity as a theory or whatever then that's fine but you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they do or don't know.

Ok, now I ask you why you feel pressure all around you but your hair seems to wave about.

Do you feel pressure all around you?  I don't.  Talking about hair, have you ever seen one of those demonstrations with a Van de Graff generator where a person holds onto the conducting metal ball and their hair starts to stand on end?  Then when they let go of the ball their hair falls flat again.  Why do you think that is?

When anything is in freefall it always travels towards the ground.  Why is that?  If it was resistance in air creating the effect that I would call acceleration due to gravity, then why would it only be acceleration in the same direction?

The apple doesn't fall because you have it gripped in your fingers.

Let's say that I am holding an apple in my closed hand.  I turn my arm so my thumb is pointing up upwards (palm to the right).  I open my hand and the apple falls to the group.  I repeat the same experiment 100 times and each time the apple falls downwards.  Why?  Why does the apple never go upwards or even to the side?  If there is no such thing as gravity (remember you say gravity is fictional) always pulling the apple towards the centre of the Earth why does the apple always move the same way when I open my hand?

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 01:08:54 AM

For your force to be used to accelerate that mass, something must also resist your force in order for you to do that.

That object is the thing resisting. You need to explain why it is.

Hypothetically (i.e. not necessarily in reality) it would be possible to have an object not resist at all and instead just accelerate as you push it, without needing any force to do so.

How can you push something without using a resistance to do so? It's impossible.
There's no hypothetical about it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 01:12:14 AM

Quote from: sobchak on February 17, 2021, 04:01:27 PM

I’m skeptical of your claim.

I’m also skeptical of your claim of massive worldwide conspiracies to hide the shape of the earth as well as your brilliance in single handed cracking the secrets of the world around us.

I think that is a demonstration of healthy skepticism, don’t you?

Yep. You are well within your rights to do that and I would not expect anything else.

So you agree that anyone with a healthy sense of skepticism SHOULD be very skeptical of your claims?

Everyone has a right to be sceptical. I do not expect anyone to just accept what I say. I leave that down to those that are willing to spend the time questioning everything and scrutinising everything, to come up with their own logic and reasoning rather than being saturated in a lot of unprovable so called scientific gobbledygook.

 After all, unevidenced claims of vast, worldwide bizarre and perfect conspiracies, coupled with grand claims of self importance and brilliance -  like you are proposing, are highly questionable and should be rightly dismissed by any rational individual, correct?

It would be absolutely correct if I was putting it all out as factual. But I'm not putting it out as factual. I'm putting it out as my thought process, based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments...and the real belief....yes, belief...by me, that Earth is not a spinning globe in a vacuum of space as we're told.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 12:42:38 AM

There's no issue with anything happening under denpressure. It works as we can see.
The only issue is, how we are told stuff works. Gravity in use is a nonsense.
You don't know what it is but argue for it.

There’s no issue because nothing happens under denpressure. It’s pure fantasy.

That’s why when people design aeroplanes for example, they don’t use denpressure nonsense, but real physics.

Denpressure easily caters for plane flight....gravity does not.

If denpressure were real, it would be blindingly obvious from the enormous differences from what we observe, and that’s what we would learn.  But it’s not, so we don’t.

It is blindingly obvious. It's just hidden behind another supposed force called gravity, which is the real fiction.

Do you feel pressure all around you?  I don't.  Talking about hair, have you ever seen one of those demonstrations with a Van de Graff generator where a person holds onto the conducting metal ball and their hair starts to stand on end?  Then when they let go of the ball their hair falls flat again.  Why do you think that is?

When anything is in freefall it always travels towards the ground.  Why is that?  If it was resistance in air creating the effect that I would call acceleration due to gravity, then why would it only be acceleration in the same direction?

For anything to fall, first it must be forced up by energy to then become the potential energy after that force is spent.
Think about it.

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The apple doesn't fall because you have it gripped in your fingers.

Let's say that I am holding an apple in my closed hand.  I turn my arm so my thumb is pointing up upwards (palm to the right).  I open my hand and the apple falls to the group.  I repeat the same experiment 100 times and each time the apple falls downwards.  Why?

Because you used your own energy and force to raise that apple against the pressure of atmosphere. Once you spend that force (release the apple) the dense mass of it that displaces that atmosphere and is then crushed down into the below stack and the stack below that....and so on and so on...it creates a resistance alla round it that is greater than the atmosphere below it.

  Why does the apple never go upwards or even to the side?

The same reason it doesn't in water.

If there is no such thing as gravity (remember you say gravity is fictional) always pulling the apple towards the centre of the Earth why does the apple always move the same way when I open my hand?

As above.
Also there is no such thing as pull. Only push.
That alone kills gravity.
I know I know...what do you mean there's no pull.
Just use your brain and understand that the word "pull" is meaningless . It has no physical  reasoning.

Push caters for everything by resistance.

It would be absolutely correct if I was putting it all out as factual. But I'm not putting it out as factual. I'm putting it out as my thought process, based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments...and the real belief....yes, belief...by me, that Earth is not a spinning globe in a vacuum of space as we're told.

What experiments? Can you show us these and the results?

I leave that down to those that are willing to spend the time questioning everything and scrutinising everything, to come up with their own logic and reasoning rather than being saturated in a lot of unprovable so called scientific gobbledygook.

If you seriously think that you can 'prove' the shape of the Earth by looking at whether water looks level or not then you are sadly mistaken.  Science has never and will never 'prove' anything.

At the end of the day these discussions are basically an expression of opinions.  You have yours we have ours. We can carry on firing these disparaging remarks about each others opinions for ever more without achieving anything. No one will ever 'prove' anything either way. 

For anything to fall, first it must be forced up by energy to then become the potential energy after that force is spent.

OK where does the energy come from in the first place?

pressure of atmosphere

Pressure doesn't just manifest itself. So what creates the pressure?

You keep on talking about the consequence of what we observe without saying anything at all about the cause of what we observe.

Because you used your own energy and force to raise that apple against the pressure of atmosphere. Once you spend that force (release the apple) the dense mass of it that displaces that atmosphere and is then crushed down into the below stack and the stack below that....and so on and so on...it creates a resistance alla round it that is greater than the atmosphere below it.

Explain this nice and simply..  you know the sort of level a child or a retard might understand.  As it is this is a sentence of fancy sounding words but it means absolutely nothing.  In any case this doesn't explain why it always moves the same way.

The same reason it doesn't in water.

Which is?

Also there is no such thing as pull. Only push.

Really?  How does a car get a caravan to move then?  How does a tractor get a plough to move?  Do train engines not pull the carriages along?

based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments

So one person can single handedly carry out some experiments and confirm beyond any element of doubt that the Earth is not a globe can they?  Yes I would like to know what those experiments are as well!!  Fame and fortune beckons anyone who can do that.

OK where does the energy come from in the first place?

Earth's centre.
If you want to think of it on an easy mind process, just think of a cell or an egg or frogspawn or something along those lines.
That's all we are, I believe...just part of a cell.
A big cell to our thinking but maybe small in the grand scheme of the bigger picture...eh?
Possible?
Of course not, to you, because you think we're spinning in a space vacuum and are reliant on a massive burning sun...etc, in that vacuum.

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pressure of atmosphere

Pressure doesn't just manifest itself. So what creates the pressure?

Friction/vibrational frequencies.

You keep on talking about the consequence of what we observe without saying anything at all about the cause of what we observe.

It depends how far you want to go. Do we go down the "how long is a piece of string" avenue?

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Because you used your own energy and force to raise that apple against the pressure of atmosphere. Once you spend that force (release the apple) the dense mass of it that displaces that atmosphere and is then crushed down into the below stack and the stack below that....and so on and so on...it creates a resistance alla round it that is greater than the atmosphere below it.

Explain this nice and simply..  you know the sort of level a child or a retard might understand.  As it is this is a sentence of fancy sounding words but it means absolutely nothing.

I think I am explaining like that. Maybe you need to have a think.

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The same reason it doesn't in water.

Which is?
 

Put your unbiased mind to work, if you have one.

Quote

Also there is no such thing as pull. Only push.

Really?  How does a car get a caravan to move then?  How does a tractor get a plough to move?  Do train engines not pull the carriages along?
 

They all push each other along. You just need to put your unbiased mind to work, as above..

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based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments

So one person can single handedly carry out some experiments and confirm beyond any element of doubt that the Earth is not a globe can they?
 

Nope...many people can. The easiest proof's have already been told but naturally, denied....obviously.

 

  Yes I would like to know what those experiments are as well!!  Fame and fortune beckons anyone who can do that.
 

Fame and fortune don't beckon anyone who goes against the global mindset, stop being so naive.

Earth's centre.
If you want to think of it on an easy mind process, just think of a cell or an egg or frogspawn or something along those lines.
That's all we are, I believe...just part of a cell.
A big cell to our thinking but maybe small in the grand scheme of the bigger picture...eh?
Possible?
Of course not, to you, because you think we're spinning in a space vacuum and are reliant on a massive burning sun...etc, in that vacuum.

So the energy comes from Earths centre does it.  OK.  So how is that energy generated in the first place?  Just describe to me how you visualise the centre of the Earth from your point of view.  How does it create the Earths magnetic field?  Obviously you are not going to deny that the Earth has a magnetic field are you. 

That's all we are, I believe...just part of a cell.

You are right there...we are all made of cells.  How many exactly? You say A cell.  Just one?

A cell needs energy.  How does that energy come from.  Everything you say is just claims. How does the energy get created in the first place.  You have told me where you believe it comes from now tell me how it gets created.  Energy doesn't create itself.

Possible?

Anything is possible. But possible doesn't mean anything until there is evidence to support.

Related to that:

Friction/vibrational frequencies.

What causes the vibration then?  Vibration requires a source of energy. You've told me where you think it comes from but not what creates it. 

I like to question things.  That's what science is all about.  Asking where, why, how, when, what?  What is the energy source, how long has it been producing energy for, what started the process off (i.e. how old is your Earth), what is the fuel source of this energy? etc etc..  You on the other hand don't question anything.  You are too preoccupied  dismissing and denying everything to question anything.  In any case why should you question anything... you have already decided you are right about all the BS that your mind is filled with.  I know you smirk away to yourself when people say these sort of things to you but you know its true. 

Put your unbiased mind to work, if you have one.

So I suppose you think you have got an unbiased mind.  A great comment coming from one of the most biased minds I have ever come across.

Have you ever learned something you cannot find out for yourself from someone else and if so what? If so how did you verify for yourself that they were telling you the truth and not lying to you?  Or do you rely on yourself for your 'knowledge'?

Cells and eggs are ball-ish and goes to what jaclBs been sayong to you all this time - your theory doesnt require earth to be flat and "works" on a ball earth just the same.

How can you push something without using a resistance to do so?

Why is a resistance needed?
Unless you can explain that, it is not innately impossible and thus it is hypothetical (but not necessarily physically) possible to do so.

And if we accept your delusional BS, with resistance being based upon the air, then it must be hypothetically possible to do so as it is hypothetically possible to not have air, which would mean no resistance.

But again, in reality, we know this isn't the case.
We know that instead it requires a force to accelerate the object based upon its mass and the acceleration.
It is the object itself resisting.
The air does not factor into it at all.

Now care to answer the question you completely avoided which shows your massive dishonesty?
You admit you cannot explain it as anything more than the object resists changes in motion.
If that is the case, why did you outright lie and claim it is the air, and that you have explained it?
Why claim it is the air responsible if you cannot use the air to help in your explanation at all?

I leave that down to those that are willing to spend the time questioning everything and scrutinising everything, to come up with their own logic and reasoning rather than being saturated in a lot of unprovable so called scientific gobbledygook.

The problem is your claims are that "lot of unprovable so called scientific gobbledygook".
When people with an open mind honestly and logically scrutinise your claims, they realise they are pure BS.

For example, you claim that inertia is caused by air even though you admit you cannot explain it with air at all.
So why would any sane person accept that completely unsubstantiated lie, which you make just so you pretend rockets can't work in space and thus all the satellite photos of Earth showing it is clearly round must be fake?

What a sane person would do is realise you are just looking for whatever dishonest excuse you can come up with to dismiss the RE and the evidence supporting it.

Likewise, why would any sane person accept your denpressure BS when you can't even explain why an object falls, directly defying the pressure gradient of the atmosphere, or why there is a pressure gradient in the first place?

It would be absolutely correct if I was putting it all out as factual.

You repeatedly put out your claims as factual.
Especially with your irrational, hate fuelled attack on the RE and mainstream science, repeatedly dismissing it as nonsense and accusing anyone who supports it of being indoctrinated and only supporting it because of that indoctrination.

Denpressure easily caters for plane flight

With no ability to explain why things fall, and instead having a pressure gradient push things up, denpressure, if it were real, would make flight trivial.

But back in reality, gravity explains why objects fall and thus why planes need such large wings to generate lift to overcome gravity to be able to fly.
Again, denpressure explains nothing.

It is blindingly obvious.

It is blindingly obvious that it is delusional BS.
That is obvious from your complete inability to explain anything with it.

For anything to fall, first it must be forced up by energy to then become the potential energy after that force is spent.
Think about it.

Perhaps you should try to actually think for once.
You can just remove the support and have it fall.
There is no need to lift it first.

is then crushed down

But WHY DOES IT MAGICALLY GO DOWN?
That is what you are completely incapable of explaining.
We know the pressure is greater below the apple, and that means the air should push it up.

Quote from: Solarwind

Why does the apple never go upwards or even to the side?

The same reason it doesn't in water.

Apples float in water, for the exact same reason the air should be pushing the apple up.

Also there is no such thing as pull. Only push.
That alone kills gravity.

No, that alone is your baseless assertion you cannot justify at all and instead need to continually flee from simple questions showing it is BS.

Again, how does a chain or a rope transfer the force?
Again, remember this diagram, it shows your claims are pure BS:

Have you figured out how the right side of the chain pushes the left side to the right, even though it is on the wrong side to do that?
I'll give you a clue, it pulls it.

In reality what you typically have are fields which interact with particles and at that level there is no distinction between push and pull.

It depends how far you want to go. Do we go down the "how long is a piece of string" avenue?

How about until you get down to a fundamental force, like gravity or electromagnetism.

Quote from: Solarwind

Quote

Also there is no such thing as pull. Only push.

Really?  How does a car get a caravan to move then?  How does a tractor get a plough to move?  Do train engines not pull the carriages along?

They all push each other along. You just need to put your unbiased mind to work, as above..

The car is in front. It can't push the caravan. It can only pull it.
You just need to discard your extreme bias and stop rejecting reality.

The easiest proof's have already been told but naturally, denied....obviously.

You mean refuted. That is fundamentally different to denied.
An example of denial is where you dismissed the photographic evidence as fake.
An example of refuted is an explanation of how long distance photos clearly show the surface of water is curved, not flat like you want to pretend.

Now again, figured out how to explain the pressure gradient without appealing to gravity yet?

Quote from: sobchak on February 18, 2021, 02:25:22 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 01:12:14 AM

Quote from: sobchak on February 17, 2021, 04:01:27 PM

I’m skeptical of your claim.

I’m also skeptical of your claim of massive worldwide conspiracies to hide the shape of the earth as well as your brilliance in single handed cracking the secrets of the world around us.

I think that is a demonstration of healthy skepticism, don’t you?

Yep. You are well within your rights to do that and I would not expect anything else.

So you agree that anyone with a healthy sense of skepticism SHOULD be very skeptical of your claims?

Everyone has a right to be sceptical. I do not expect anyone to just accept what I say. I leave that down to those that are willing to spend the time questioning everything and scrutinising everything, to come up with their own logic and reasoning rather than being saturated in a lot of unprovable so called scientific gobbledygook.

And if we were having this discussion around a fire in a cave, I would agree with you.  Instead, we are incredibly speaking to each other from around the world using finely controlled engines of electricity and light.   We fly through the sky as if it was nothing, we build amazing structures to live and work in, and regularly control matter down to molecular level.  Why should a rational person not at least try to understand the conceptual frameworks that got us here?

Quote from: sobchak

 After all, unevidenced claims of vast, worldwide bizarre and perfect conspiracies, coupled with grand claims of self importance and brilliance -  like you are proposing, are highly questionable and should be rightly dismissed by any rational individual, correct?

It would be absolutely correct if I was putting it all out as factual. But I'm not putting it out as factual. I'm putting it out as my thought process, based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments...and the real belief....yes, belief...by me, that Earth is not a spinning globe in a vacuum of space as we're told.

Still really skeptical.  You say you have done experiments that convince you that there is a vast worldwide conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth and have given you alone insight into its true nature.  Yet you won't say what these experiments are though, only that they are simple. 

Alarm bells are clanging loudly as my skepticism kicks in.  Any person with such a healthy sense of skepticism should be saying "wait a second here....", no?

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Earth's centre.
If you want to think of it on an easy mind process, just think of a cell or an egg or frogspawn or something along those lines.
That's all we are, I believe...just part of a cell.
A big cell to our thinking but maybe small in the grand scheme of the bigger picture...eh?
Possible?
Of course not, to you, because you think we're spinning in a space vacuum and are reliant on a massive burning sun...etc, in that vacuum.

So the energy comes from Earths centre does it.  OK.  So how is that energy generated in the first place?  Just describe to me how you visualise the centre of the Earth from your point of view.  How does it create the Earths magnetic field?  Obviously you are not going to deny that the Earth has a magnetic field are you. 

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That's all we are, I believe...just part of a cell.

You are right there...we are all made of cells.  How many exactly? You say A cell.  Just one?

A cell needs energy.  How does that energy come from.  Everything you say is just claims. How does the energy get created in the first place.  You have told me where you believe it comes from now tell me how it gets created.  Energy doesn't create itself.

Quote

Possible?

Anything is possible. But possible doesn't mean anything until there is evidence to support.

Related to that:

Quote

Friction/vibrational frequencies.

What causes the vibration then?  Vibration requires a source of energy. You've told me where you think it comes from but not what creates it. 

I like to question things.  That's what science is all about.  Asking where, why, how, when, what?  What is the energy source, how long has it been producing energy for, what started the process off (i.e. how old is your Earth), what is the fuel source of this energy? etc etc..  You on the other hand don't question anything.  You are too preoccupied  dismissing and denying everything to question anything.  In any case why should you question anything... you have already decided you are right about all the BS that your mind is filled with.  I know you smirk away to yourself when people say these sort of things to you but you know its true. 

Quote

Put your unbiased mind to work, if you have one.

So I suppose you think you have got an unbiased mind.  A great comment coming from one of the most biased minds I have ever come across.

Have you ever learned something you cannot find out for yourself from someone else and if so what? If so how did you verify for yourself that they were telling you the truth and not lying to you?  Or do you rely on yourself for your 'knowledge'?

When you calm down and compose yourself and ask me a civil question, I'll give you my best answer as it stands.

Don;t ask me questions and then go into that tirade on nonsense of digs and then complain that I'm digging at you.
You get what you give.
Mr nasty.

Cells and eggs are ball-ish and goes to what jaclBs been sayong to you all this time - your theory doesnt require earth to be flat and "works" on a ball earth just the same.

Yep and the difference is, we are inside, not walking about on the top.
Have a real good think about it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 08:41:04 AM

How can you push something without using a resistance to do so?

Why is a resistance needed?
Unless you can explain that, it is not innately impossible and thus it is hypothetical (but not necessarily physically) possible to do so.

Pay attention then.

To push something you need leverage. You need something to push against to resist the reactionary resistant force of the object to be pushed.

It's all resistance.
Just take your mind from the magical and think about reality.

For example, you claim that inertia is caused by air even though you admit you cannot explain it with air at all.

Making lies up isn't going to get you very far.
I don't claim anything about inertia. I don't accept it as being anything unless you admit it is simply, resistance.
Once you do that, we can move on with it.

So, no....I did not make any claim about it.
I'm still waiting for you to explain it.

And if we were having this discussion around a fire in a cave, I would agree with you.  Instead, we are incredibly speaking to each other from around the world using finely controlled engines of electricity and light.   We fly through the sky as if it was nothing, we build amazing structures to live and work in, and regularly control matter down to molecular level.  Why should a rational person not at least try to understand the conceptual frameworks that got us here?

And this is where it comes down to reverse engineering to get right back to the so called cave speak.

One brick can start a palace. One palace is complicated.
Strip it back to find the start.

That's all that's required.
This applies to everything.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 08:49:07 AM

Quote from: sobchak

 After all, unevidenced claims of vast, worldwide bizarre and perfect conspiracies, coupled with grand claims of self importance and brilliance -  like you are proposing, are highly questionable and should be rightly dismissed by any rational individual, correct?

It would be absolutely correct if I was putting it all out as factual. But I'm not putting it out as factual. I'm putting it out as my thought process, based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments...and the real belief....yes, belief...by me, that Earth is not a spinning globe in a vacuum of space as we're told.

Still really skeptical.  You say you have done experiments that convince you that there is a vast worldwide conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth and have given you alone insight into its true nature.  Yet you won't say what these experiments are though, only that they are simple. 

Alarm bells are clanging loudly as my skepticism kicks in.  Any person with such a healthy sense of skepticism should be saying "wait a second here....", no?

Keep them ringing. You're only catering for yourself. I have no issue with you not believing or accepting anything I say.
I do not want nor expect you to think on my side.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 19, 2021, 01:51:17 AM

I don't claim anything about inertia. I don't accept it as being anything unless you admit it is simply, resistance.

So, no....I did not make any claim about it.

You are clearly trying to claim 'it is simply resistance'. This IS A CLAIM.

Also why do you always place commas in strange places in your sentences? You wonder why people struggle to understand you demented ramblings and being unable to make grammatically correct statements really doesn't help.

You, mus,t be, the ,new ,Eng,lish teach,er....right?

Quote from: JackBlack on February 18, 2021, 12:50:42 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 08:41:04 AM

How can you push something without using a resistance to do so?

Why is a resistance needed?
Unless you can explain that, it is not innately impossible and thus it is hypothetical (but not necessarily physically) possible to do so.

Pay attention then.

To push something you need leverage. You need something to push against to resist the reactionary resistant force of the object to be pushed.

It's all resistance.
Just take your mind from the magical and think about reality.

I kind of get it. Take for example the train. The engine's wheels are turning pushing against the track's, I guess resistance, to move forward. However, the car(s) attached to it behind are being pulled by the engine. Otherwise they wouldn't move.

Same thing with the chain links. You're pulling the end of the loose chain with your hands. You're pushing into the resistance of the ground with your feet on some level to do so. However a loose link is sliding so that it buts up to another link and begins to physically pull on that link, not push. Otherwise the link wouldn't move.

So, ostensibly, both push and pull exist, not just push.

Yep and the difference is, we are inside, not walking about on the top.
Have a real good think about it.

Yes I've heard of this line of thinking before.  We look down at an ant walking over your arm and think of it as tiny but if you you were to imagine yourself reduced down to the size of the ant then the hairs on our arms would seem to be like a jungle to the ant.  Similarly the legs of the ant are covered in bacteria so the ant will seem enormous to the bacteria. You can carry on going down and down until you reach the atomic level.

So what is to say you cannot go the other way as well and there is another level above us looking down to our level.  We might as well be a tiny living cell to whatever it is that represents that next level above us.  The ant of course is completely oblivious to us looking down and watching it.

When you calm down and compose yourself and ask me a civil question, I'll give you my best answer as it stands.

Do you know what... I'm calmer now than I have been for a long time thanks.  I wouldn't ask you any questions about 'your Earth' that I couldn't answer about the global model.  So I will take your comment and again refusal to answer any of the questions I put to you as your usual 'haven't a clue' answer.  There is nothing uncivil about my questions. I am simply asking for basic information about your model.  Which anyone who is confident that they are right would be able to answer

Quote from: sobchak on February 18, 2021, 11:21:31 PM

And if we were having this discussion around a fire in a cave, I would agree with you.  Instead, we are incredibly speaking to each other from around the world using finely controlled engines of electricity and light.   We fly through the sky as if it was nothing, we build amazing structures to live and work in, and regularly control matter down to molecular level.  Why should a rational person not at least try to understand the conceptual frameworks that got us here?

And this is where it comes down to reverse engineering to get right back to the so called cave speak.

One brick can start a palace. One palace is complicated.
Strip it back to find the start.

That's all that's required.
This applies to everything.

But why not just directly learn the principles that were used to create them?  Why is that not a rational approach?

Quote from: sobchak

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 08:49:07 AM

Quote from: sobchak

 After all, unevidenced claims of vast, worldwide bizarre and perfect conspiracies, coupled with grand claims of self importance and brilliance -  like you are proposing, are highly questionable and should be rightly dismissed by any rational individual, correct?

It would be absolutely correct if I was putting it all out as factual. But I'm not putting it out as factual. I'm putting it out as my thought process, based on my small but relevant (to me) experiments...and the real belief....yes, belief...by me, that Earth is not a spinning globe in a vacuum of space as we're told.

Still really skeptical.  You say you have done experiments that convince you that there is a vast worldwide conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth and have given you alone insight into its true nature.  Yet you won't say what these experiments are though, only that they are simple. 

Alarm bells are clanging loudly as my skepticism kicks in.  Any person with such a healthy sense of skepticism should be saying "wait a second here....", no?

Keep them ringing. You're only catering for yourself. I have no issue with you not believing or accepting anything I say.
I do not want nor expect you to think on my side.

Cool, but from my point of view it's not about me, its about rational skepticism.   Why would ANYONE look at what you are saying and not be rationally skeptical to it?   

You are claiming a worldwide conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth from the population at large. And that you alone have discovered the true nature of the world around us.

This is a bizarre claim when viewed from a rationally skeptical point of view, no?

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 19, 2021, 01:48:49 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on February 18, 2021, 12:50:42 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 18, 2021, 08:41:04 AM

How can you push something without using a resistance to do so?

Why is a resistance needed?
Unless you can explain that, it is not innately impossible and thus it is hypothetical (but not necessarily physically) possible to do so.

Pay attention then.

To push something you need leverage. You need something to push against to resist the reactionary resistant force of the object to be pushed.

It's all resistance.
Just take your mind from the magical and think about reality.

I kind of get it. Take for example the train. The engine's wheels are turning pushing against the track's, I guess resistance, to move forward. However, the car(s) attached to it behind are being pulled by the engine. Otherwise they wouldn't move.

Same thing with the chain links. You're pulling the end of the loose chain with your hands. You're pushing into the resistance of the ground with your feet on some level to do so. However a loose link is sliding so that it buts up to another link and begins to physically pull on that link, not push. Otherwise the link wouldn't move.

So, ostensibly, both push and pull exist, not just push.

No. It's all push, it's just a case of seeing how.