What keeps us on the ground

I don’t get why flat earthers persist with all this bollocks when it’s completely unnecessary.

You could just say there’s a force proportional to an object’s mass that acts downwards towards a flat earth instead of towards the center of a spherical earth.  AKA weight.

You’d then have something that works fine for just about all the mechanics of stuff on earth.  All the maths used by millions of engineers to build everything in the modern world from cars and planes to power stations, bridges and oil refineries would be fine.

You don’t have to call it gravity.  Give it whatever name you want.

You do know that aeroplanes are real, right Turbo?  Don’t you think that the people who design them have pretty good idea of how this works? 

Trying to break the most fundamental parts of basic mechanics is just daft.

I’ve told you many times why things always fall downward after being PUT UP INTO AIR BY AN EXTERNAL FORCE ACTING ON THEM.

Yes, you have repeated this pathetic lie many times.
But I have given examples where it is not so simple.
For example, when you throw something up and to the right.
This also includes when you throw something directly away from an inclined surface (e.g. a side of a hill).
It doesn't magically reverse and come back, it goes down.

But it also includes other examples, such as where you break an object off from the vertical face of a cliff.
You are not forcing it up, you are forcing it entirely horizontally.
Even worse for you it also includes when you break something away from an overhang. In this case you are literally forcing it down.
It also includes when you simply push something off the edge or over a hole.

In all cases it goes DOWN!
Not back to where it came from.
Not opposite the force that put it into the air, but DOWN!

So your pathetic BS doesn't work.

Again, things do not magically return to their origin.

And for added fun, it also includes when you don't provide a force at all.
For example when you boil water.
The water originated from a lake, you place it in a container slightly higher than the lake, yet when you boil it, it goes UP!
In your delusional fantasy, no additional force was provided to make it go up, so why is it "falling up" away from its origin?
Yet when it then hits a cold surface and condenses, it goes down?

And why, if you take that water from the lake, and going into a tunnel under the lake, the water still goes down?

And for some more added added fun, what about sea life?
For example, lobsters.
When they spawn, they are all throughout the water column.
But when they are old, they stay on the bottom, and if you pick them up off the bottom, they fall down to the bottom.
But fish happily swim around, typically remaining neutrally buoyant. When they die, they often float to the surface, yet if cut up, the chunks fall down to the bottom.

How is that simply returning to where it originated?

Again, the origin and how the object is moved or forced to move away from that origin clearly has absolute nothing to do with why things fall down.
So stop repeating the same refuted BS. It simply doesn't work.

We cannot possibly prove which one is true

We can, and have, by observing things fall from space to Earth.
The evidence you desperately need to dismiss as fake or just outright ignore because you know it shows your claim is pure BS.

Why would everything fall down in that one direction at all?

Because it is falling towards Earth, because of the gravitational attraction to Earth.

Their greater density

Provide no explanation at all, and directly contradicts your prior claim.

If it is about origin, then density shouldn't matter.

For example, if water originates on Earth, why should boiling it make it go up?
Why shouldn't it still be trying to go down?
If it is about origin, that water vapour should be staying on Earth, and not going up at all. It should require a force to force it up and when that force is removed it should go down.

Again, your claims and worldview are so utterly pathetic and incapable of explaining reality that you need to repeatedly switch back and forth between mutually exclusive ideas.

If it is about origin, then density doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter if an object has a density of 1 kg/ml, or 1 ug per cubic km, if it starts on Earth it should stay on Earth unless a force acts to push it up.
We can also test this with a helium cylinder. Clearly the helium originated in the air and wants to go up. So the more helium you put into the cylinder the more it should go up. So the cylinder should be lightest when it is full of helium, and as it drains it should get heavier. But we see the exact opposite, with it getting lighter as the pressure is reduced. You can even test this with a cylinder of compressed air.
As if the volume of the cylinder remains unchanged, so the upwards force due to buoyancy remains unchanged, and it is just the downwards force due to gravity that changes as the helium empties.

Conversely, if it is about density, then origin shouldn't matter, and you have lost the only thing you have been able to pretend explains why down; and instead have no reason at all for why being denser should make it go down.

Pick an idea, and stick to it instead of repeatedly contradicting yourself.

And while origin is clearly BS and doesn't work at all, in order to have either work you still need a downwards force acting on the object to accelerate it, and that force needs to be proportional to mass to have objects of different mass accelerate at the same rate.
And if you don't ignore the pressure gradient that already explains why things go up; and what you are left with is a downwards force proportional to mass. So it isn't the object being denser making it go down, it is this downwards force. Then you just need to explain that.

There’s only one result possible at all.

Yes, without a force it remains as it is.

Your force proved to be crap

When?
Do you mean when you repeatedly lie about it?
Such as when you ignore that it will create the observed and measurable pressure gradient in fluids which acts to push objects up?
That isn't the force failing, that is your pathetic BS failing.

Again, like saying seeing a light kid on a see-saw go up when the heavy kid sits on the other side magically disproves gravity because the light kid goes up.
You would have to be a complete imbecile to think that.

So what are you? A complete imbecile, or just lying scum?

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

Real and genuine forces work independently, all throughout their actions, and behaviours, and all of them do.

Why would your made up crap story of a force, fail to be consistent in its very actions, you claim of it?

To need to make up two forces, because your first one didn’t wash at all, needs you to make up another story of another force, that does what the first one failed to do!!!!

What a blown up convoluted, grotesque mess of a story you have here!

So sad, to have an easily proven fraudulent story, built upon lies and lies of all types, fakes and tricks of all types, truths hidden and forbidden to see by anyone at all!

Real and genuine forces work independently, all throughout their actions, and behaviours, and all of them do.

Just like gravity.
You are yet to show a single inconsistency.

To need to make up two forces

No, I need to accept one real force, and the logical consequences of it.
Meanwhile, you need to repeatedly flee from reality because these consequences exist and don't fit in your delusional fantasy.
Again, the force known as buoyancy is a result of the pressure gradient found in fluids. A pressure gradient you cannot explain, nor can you address why it doesn't push everything up.
The pressure gradient is caused by gravity pulling the fluid down and the fluid being supported from below.

Again, less dense object goes up because fluid goes down.

Again, like saying seeing a light kid on a see-saw go up when the heavy kid sits on the other side magically disproves gravity because the light kid goes up.
You would have to be a complete imbecile to think that.

So what are you? A complete imbecile, or just lying scum?
Care to answer this time?
Or are you too dishonest/stupid to be able to answer such a simple question?

No inconsistency. No magic made up extra force.
Just simple reality you need to repeatedly flee from.

So sad, to have an easily proven fraudulent story, built upon lies and lies of all types, fakes and tricks of all types, truths hidden and forbidden to see by anyone at all!

Yes, you are quite sad.

So desperate to reject reality you need to keep repeating the same pathetic lies that have been refuted countless times.
But you are free to stop with all these lies any time you want.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

Things in air are put up into air, by an external force. Nothing exists in air, only on the surface of Earth.

Things were created to exist on Earths surface, others to exist in the heavens above Earth.

No force needs to exist within Earth to pull things down from air, nothing exists in air. Only on the surface.

Things have more density than air above, less density than the surface below things. Some are in water, some above Earth. It’s all His design and creation.

Only your fairy tale story needs to make up some stupid forces to explain this bs, but fails miserably of course.

They claim the Sun and moon only look to be the exact same size and shape, or nearly the same anyway!

It’s really the most incredible coincidence of all time, isn’t it?

There’s these two very large objects above Earth, among countless stars and so on above Earth also.


But only these two are the biggest objects above Earth, the odds of them looking to be the very same size and shape among the countless other objects above us, would not ever be possibly by random chance.

Add on they’re very different in size, and in distance from Earth, among countless other objects in space!

There’s nothing of it being a miraculous coincidence of random chance here. They are the same size and shape, put above Earth and all created this way by God. Not magical coincidences claimed by those liars

Things in air are put up into air

Again, they are not.
They are put into the air in lots of different directions, including sideways and down.
And in some cases, no force is applied, instead heat is applied to convert water to steam which rises all by itself according to your delusional fantasy.

And we see the object doesn't just magically go backwards against this force, instead it goes down.

Again, your pathetic origin BS doesn't work.
It never has, it never will.
Continually appealing to it just shows you are lying, subhuman scum.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

Real and genuine forces work independently, all throughout their actions, and behaviours, and all of them do.

Why would your made up crap story of a force, fail to be consistent in its very actions, you claim of it?

To need to make up two forces, because your first one didn’t wash at all, needs you to make up another story of another force, that does what the first one failed to do!!!!

What a blown up convoluted, grotesque mess of a story you have here!

So sad, to have an easily proven fraudulent story, built upon lies and lies of all types, fakes and tricks of all types, truths hidden and forbidden to see by anyone at all!

“Real forces, blah, blah”
“Made up forces, blah, blah”
“Fraudulent lies, blah, blah”

Basically the same post over and over again for months on end.

Meanwhile everyone who has studied even basic mechanics learns the same thing about how forces work.  And that is not how you say it is.  Every physicist, every engineer who has used their understanding of how shit works to build everything in the modern world.

Can you explain how they’ve managed to make all the technology we rely on using the principles you say are all lies?  How has no one noticed if it doesn’t work?   

if not gravity, what keeps us on the ground

Back to the original question, asking what ‘keeps us on the ground’!

Which implies we aren’t already on the ground, or didn’t first exist on the ground.

Based on what evidence?

There’s no basis or evidence to support this claim, or assumption, that we humans or anything else on the ground of Earth came from elsewhere, than the surface, let alone landed down or pulled down to the surface by a made up force!

Back to the original question, asking what ‘keeps us on the ground’!
Which implies we aren’t already on the ground, or didn’t first exist on the ground.

No, it doesn't.
It is asking what KEEPS us on the ground, implying we are on it and something is preventing us from leaving it.
But even if you did want to appeal to something in the air, where it started is irrelevant.
It doesn't matter if I pick something up from the ground and hold it in the air, or break it off sideways from a cliff, or even downwards from an overhang; they fall down.

Your pathetic origin BS doesn't work.
It never has.
It never will

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

The force is created by the object put within the less dense medium around it, being more dense than that medium, which cannot hold it up in the medium, causes it to fall downward through the medium to the surface below that medium.

Being it is denser than air, requires an external force to act on it to go upward into air, nothing of a force within Earth holds it down to the surface.

For you, everything on earth would float around in air or ‘space’ in its natural state.

But there’s nothing at all to suggest or indicate or even imply that would ever BE the natural state of anything at all, either on or above the Earth.


Based on all the evidence, over thousands of years being on the surface and others above Earth, and nothing from elsewhere landing on Earths surface or circling above Earth, that clearly shows it’s the natural state of all things.

Your argument has nothing to support that all things on Earth came from elsewhere and we’re all pulled down to the surface by a made up force within Earth!

That’s why your fairy tale story can’t work at all, it’s made up bs from the start.

The force is created by the object put within the less dense medium around it

What force? Do you mean gravity?

How does being denser than air magically make a force?
Why should it be denser things magically get a downwards force?
Why not just everything?

which cannot hold it up in the medium

What is there to hold up?
Without a force, there is nothing.

But there’s nothing at all to suggest or indicate or even imply that would ever BE the natural state of anything at all

Except the mountains of evidence showing that you need a force to accelerate the object.
And the pressure gradient.

Based on all the evidence

Gravity is real, and you are wilfully lying to everyone.

Your argument has nothing to support that all things on Earth came from elsewhere

I don't need to. As repeatedly explained, your origin BS doesn't work.

we’re all pulled down to the surface by a made up force within Earth!

Except the mountains of evidence supporting gravity which you continue to ignore.

That’s why your fairy tale story can’t work at all, it’s made up bs from the start.

You mean YOUR fairy tale story.
You are yet to show a single fault with gravity, nor provide a viable alternative.

Your pathetic origin BS doesn't work.
It never has.
It never will

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

Our greater mass than air keeps us on Earths surface, simple as that.

Why do you think we need to be held down to the surface? Our mass does that for us.

Light has no mass and is still attracted to things. The only explanation is gravity

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

The force is created by the object put within the less dense medium around it

What force? Do you mean gravity?

How does being denser than air magically make a force?
Why should it be denser things magically get a downwards force?
Why not just everything?

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

which cannot hold it up in the medium

What is there to hold up?
Without a force, there is nothing.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

But there’s nothing at all to suggest or indicate or even imply that would ever BE the natural state of anything at all

Except the mountains of evidence showing that you need a force to accelerate the object.
And the pressure gradient.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

Based on all the evidence

Gravity is real, and you are wilfully lying to everyone.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

Your argument has nothing to support that all things on Earth came from elsewhere

I don't need to. As repeatedly explained, your origin BS doesn't work.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

we’re all pulled down to the surface by a made up force within Earth!

Except the mountains of evidence supporting gravity which you continue to ignore.

Quote from: turbonium2 on November 22, 2025, 12:26:32 AM

That’s why your fairy tale story can’t work at all, it’s made up bs from the start.

You mean YOUR fairy tale story.
You are yet to show a single fault with gravity, nor provide a viable alternative.

Your pathetic origin BS doesn't work.
It never has.
It never will

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

Forces are naturally found on and above Earth, as well as created from us, altering the natural state of things in natural state to other states.

For example, objects on Earth always are on the surface of Earth, in natural state.

But when we create a helium filled balloon, which doesn’t exist on Earth naturally, we create an object which rises up from the Earths surface, and change the natural state of objects all being on the surface.

There’s no external force acting on the helium balloon to cause it to rise up from the surface! How could it possibly rise upward into air, without another force acting on it to rise upward, cause it to be in motion?

Something which was not found on Earth, an object that isn’t found to exist on Earth in its natural state, where all objects are on the surface of Earth, except for those which are all above Earth, like clouds and stars and Sun and moon…..

When the natural state of things, of any object, is changed or altered by us, into another form, or another medium not natural to it, not on the surface of Earth, we are changing the natural state, which changes the object into a foreign medium or state, not natural to it.

The natural state of the object is changed or altered by us, acting on it with a force, or creating a new form of an object, adding helium into it, making it less dense than air, causing it to rise up from the surface, without any external force acting on it at all…

So there’s no external force acting on it, and your claim is proven to be wrong.

No, you claim there IS an external force acting on a helium filled balloon, and a different external force acting on objects when we first put them up into air by an external force acting on them!!

These are two cases of objects not in natural state, or not existing at all on Earth in natural state.

The force is created by us, putting objects up into the less dense medium of air, or into water, which makes the object move within these mediums, upward or downward, based on their relative densities…


And that’s where the force is created from.

Trying to claim that an external force is pulling down and holding down to the surface all things on Earth, didn’t work at all, because some objects rise up above the surface, or mediums of Earth, even in both directions, changing their relative densities within their mediums…

They had to make up another excuse for their original excuse, that everything on Earth is held down to the surface by this monstrously powerful of all other forces, which exist on Earth, or above Earth, it is universal force of everything having this force, too!

There’s no external force acting on the helium balloon to cause it to rise up

Except the pressure gradient, as repeatedly pointed out.
Something that destroys your pathetic BS.

So we have a force acting on it, an upwards force, pushing it upwards, so it goes up, just like we would expect.
Where this becomes a problem for your pathetic BS, is that this force acts on everything in the atmosphere, not just the balloon. So everything should go up.

The natural state of the object is changed or altered by us, acting on it with a force, or creating a new form of an object, adding helium into it

Causes it to weigh more.
e.g. if you take a tank, an airtight container, and have it evacuated so it is a vacuum inside, you can record the weight of the container.
Then start pumping helium in, and you observe that weight increases.
The more helium that goes in, the heavier it is.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

So there’s no external force acting on it, and your claim is proven to be wrong.

No, your pathetic lies don't prove anything wrong.

No, you claim there IS an external force acting on a helium filled balloon

Yes, because there is. As all the evidence shows.

As a reminder, how do plane altimeters work (at least pressure based ones)?
The measure the pressure.
The pressure of the atmosphere.
A pressure which decreases with increasing elevation.
This means the lower you are, the greater the pressure.
So the pressure pushing up on the helium filled balloon from below is greater than the pressure pushing down from above.

So there is an external force.

Lying about it wont help you.
It just how utterly pathetic, desperate and dishonest you are.

Trying to claim that an external force is pulling down and holding down to the surface all things on Earth

Works wonderful.
With you unable to show a fault.
It works so well it directly leads to a pressure gradient, which in turn pushes things up.

No excuses, just simple logic. Or is that beyond you as well?

Again, address the pressure you worthless, lying, subhuman scum.

You’re trying to make anything up for this hopeless yarn they built up from lies and fakery.

A made up collection of fakery and ruses and lies atop other lies, all in a stinking pile of crap, held by the one lie which crushes all of them at once.

Only held up by those who see nothing wrong or fishy in it.

You’re trying to make anything up

No. That would still be you.
I'm sticking to reality.
Reality you cannot refute.
Reality you need to desperately lie about and flee from.

Just look at what crap you have just pulled.
You wilfully lied to everyone about the pressure gradient, falsely pretending it doesn't exist so isn't an external force on a helium filled balloon.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

And again, the pressure gradient is not the result of some magical property of the fluid layering out, and instead is based upon the height of the column and the density of the fluid.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

Being within greater water pressure in an ocean or deep lake, does not push you upward above it, nor any other direction either. It crushes in on you, all around you. It’s density is extremely high, and is very pressurized water

Being within greater water pressure in an ocean or deep lake, does not push you upward above it, nor any other direction either. It crushes in on you, all around you.

You are not simply in greater pressure.
There is a pressure gradient.
That means the pressure below you try to push you up is greater than the pressure above you trying to push you down.
So it does not simply try to crush you from all around equally.

Because the force is greater at the bottom because the pressure is greater at the bottom, it is pushing you up.
That is how pressure gradients work.

Lying about it will not change it.
It just shows how utterly pathetic you are.


Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

And again, the pressure gradient is not the result of some magical property of the fluid layering out, and instead is based upon the height of the column and the density of the fluid.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force.

The object creates the force acting on it to fall within air, being of greater density than air, surrounding that object.


You’re making a circular argument, ignoring that you had to PUT the object into a less dense medium, which is the first and most important part….so why would you try to skip past it all the time like that liar Newton?

 
Okay now….when an object is in motion….

What is missing here? Hmm..


Right, I forgot to say that an object isn’t in motion. It is motionless on the surface. I have to use external force to put it into motion!


Why not tell us that part first, you fraud Newton?


Because it is intentionally left out of course. Don’t say a force put an object into motion, just say ‘when an object IS in motion’


Duh, ok sounds good to me 🤪

The object creates the force acting on it to fall within air, being of greater density than air, surrounding that object.

How, and why?
How does the object magically create a force?
Where is the reactionary force?
Why does being greater density make it go down?

You’re making a circular argument, ignoring that you had to PUT the object into a less dense medium

Again, we have been over this.
It clearly doesn't matter how it got there, because it just falls down.

If how it got there was important at all, that would indicate the directionality as well.
And even notice how your pathetic claim doesn't even have that, because you know it is pure BS. You know you cannot justify it at all.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

And again, the pressure gradient is not the result of some magical property of the fluid layering out, and instead is based upon the height of the column and the density of the fluid.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

Right, I forgot to say that an object isn’t in motion. It is motionless on the surface. I have to use external force to put it into motion!


Why not tell us that part first, you fraud Newton?

Were those Newton's exact words or have they been paraphrased over and over again over the years?

Because it is intentionally left out of course. Don’t say a force put an object into motion, just say ‘when an object IS in motion’

Probably because he was describing the current state of motion, not the initial state.  Seems like you're nit picking an irrelevant point because you don't have an actual argument.

No, density isn’t a force. But when objects of greater density are put within a less dense medium, BY an external force acting on them, it IS their density within a less dense medium that comes into play here.

Earth is certainly created in one direction - downward from air to the surface, when put up into air first of all!

There’s nothing at all to indicate all things on Earth have always been on Earth. Except those in the heavens, which have always been in the heavens and no indication of being elsewhere at all.

But you would rather believe all things on Earth must have been somewhere else than on Earth before, at least over 10000 years ago or more! Before humans were on Earth and saw all things on Earth already!

That’s a great argument indeed. Everything on Earth can’t have always been on Earth, except you have no proof at all. No objects have been above Earth and were pulled down by your bs force.

You haven’t even any proof of comets or meteors being in ‘space’ which is also made up bs, or proof of any comet or meteor crashing down to Earths surface, at all.

But it would certainly be funny. Over ten thousand years, only a few meteors or comets have landed down on the Earth. 


That really explains how all life and oceans and so on must have been zipping along above Earth and got pulled down to it by your moronic force!


That’s very impressive of you to argue!

Probably because he was describing the current state of motion, not the initial state.  Seems like you're nit picking an irrelevant point because you don't have an actual argument.

The actual CAUSE of an object to be in motion is irrelevant to you?

Just pick out an object that’s in motion, who cares what put it into motion to start with!! Duh, okey dokey sounds good to me! Yuk yuk

It only IS in motion by an external force acting on it and causing it to be in motion.

It is only because of the energy from that external force it ever can go into motion, and REMAIN IN MOTION by that forces energy which acted on the motionless object.


Objects don’t just need a push start from a force and they can keep on moving forever and ever afterwards!

It is only the energy from the force acting on the motionless object which creates its motion, throughout the distance it travels along.


Newton ignored the most important thing here! And it was on purpose. You don’t even realize it, somehow!

His so called Law of Motion is complete bs.


The energy from the force acting on a motionless object, puts it into motion and keeps it in motion over the whole distance it moves.


That energy acting on the object to cause it to be in motion, keeps it in motion as well. That is what momentum really is, the energy from the force which first acted on the object to become in motion.

They tell us its momentum which is some magical motion created in motionless objects that makes it move forever and ever unless some other force stops its motion somehow or other later on!  Total bs

No, density isn’t a force.

Meaning density doesn't make an object accelerate.
You need a force to do taht.

Earth is certainly created

No, that is just your baseless claim that you cannot substantiate in any way.
And again, if you need to appeal to it you are literally appealing to magic.

But you would rather believe all things on Earth must have been somewhere else than on Earth before

No, I think it is entirely irrelevant to the argument, as it is clear things do not magically return to their origin.
If that was the case you wouldn't need to appeal to density at all.

You haven’t even any proof of comets or meteors being in ‘space’ which is also made up bs, or proof of any comet or meteor crashing down to Earths surface, at all.

You mean nothing lying scum like you would accept.

That’s very impressive of you to argue!

I find it far more pathetic of you.
You can't defend your BS, so you just go on a childish rant attacking me with baseless, pathetic insults.

The actual CAUSE of an object to be in motion is irrelevant to you?

If you want to discuss what happens to the object once it is in motion, unless that force continues to act, it is irrelavent.

It doesn't matter if a rock is propelled with a sling or a cannon or just thrown really fast.
What matters is how fast it is going.

Again, if that pathetic BS claim of yours was even slightly true, objects should go in a straight line, stop and go back to where they came from.
e.g. if you throw a ball up at an angle, it should travel in a straight line and straight back to you, instead of following the arc it is clearly observed to.

Objects don’t just need a push start from a force and they can keep on moving forever and ever afterwards!

Yes, they can. (unless you want to get into truly astronomical scales with the expansion of the universe).
Slowing down requires a force.
It needs somewhere for the energy to go.

Newton ignored the most important thing here! And it was on purpose. You don’t even realize it, somehow!

No, YOU keep ignoring the most important thing and lying about it.

That is what momentum really is, the energy from the force which first acted on the object to become in motion.

And it needs somewhere to go for that motion to stop.


And notice how nowhere in that pathetic rant of yours have you even come close to trying to address the issues raised.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.
4 - In order to compress a scale to measure a weight reading, you need a force pushing down on the scale.

Continually ignoring this and spouting the same pathetic BS, especially when you run off onto pathetic tangents like the angular size of the sun and moon, just shows how truly and utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

And again, the pressure gradient is not the result of some magical property of the fluid layering out, and instead is based upon the height of the column and the density of the fluid.

Stop with all the pathetic BS, and try to address the points. Or be honest for once in your pathetic existence and admit you can't.

Only the energy from the force acting on the object puts it into motion the entire distance it travels, unless it falls from air to the surface, its density causes this motion, and it is kinetic energy.


There’s no magical motion created in objects after a force causes them to be in motion.


You have no clue how energy acts out on objects or anything else.


Energy acts on objects to propel them outward along the ground or through the air, more energy causes greater and often faster motion of objects, and over longer distances and time spans.


That is both the cause of its motion and the end of its motion. Start to finish.


You might be aware that energy is a finite source? It does not last forever.

Objects are motionless. Only energy acting on them puts them into motion, propelling them like a cannon shoots a ball out into air.

The most important point here, is why Newton deliberately left out the force which CAUSES an object to ever BE in motion to begin with.


Energy is the only cause of its entire motion from start to finish, in essence.


What does momentum really mean? A ball is kicked out on a field and its ‘momentum’ keeps it rolling for awhile at the end?

Momentum is just the same motion of the object, caused by the energy from an external force acting on the object.

In reality, that energy acting on the object into motion will cause all its motion, and the energy dies out soon afterwards, and the motion stops completely at that point. The slowing down of an object later on is the energy dying out over a short time.

Newton was a bs artist, yet very clever at his deceptions and wording. It fools lots of people to this day.

Trying to skip past what CAUSES objects to BE in motion, is so obvious to see here, but nobody seems to notice it is not legitimate as a law or anything else.


Objects in motion tend to stay in motion…..


No they don’t ’tend to stay in motion’, they have no motion unless a force acts on them with its energy, so his Law is all just bs.

Quote from: markjo on December 14, 2025, 10:00:54 AM

Probably because he was describing the current state of motion, not the initial state.  Seems like you're nit picking an irrelevant point because you don't have an actual argument.

The actual CAUSE of an object to be in motion is irrelevant to you?

Just pick out an object that’s in motion, who cares what put it into motion to start with!! Duh, okey dokey sounds good to me! Yuk yuk

When the police pull you over for speeding, do they care what caused your motion to exceed the speed limit?  No, they just care that your motion at the time was greater than allowed by law.

Newton was a bs artist, yet very clever at his deceptions and wording. It fools lots of people to this day.

Trying to skip past what CAUSES objects to BE in motion, is so obvious to see here, but nobody seems to notice it is not legitimate as a law or anything else.


Objects in motion tend to stay in motion…..


No they don’t ’tend to stay in motion’, they have no motion unless a force acts on them with its energy, so his Law is all just bs.

If you would bother to read the whole thing, you will find that he covers both conditions of objects in motion and objects at rest.  Why does it matter which condition he mentions first?  Your "argument" is bs.

BTW, his 2nd law covers what puts that object in motion or retards it.