What keeps us on the ground

So when you place an object in this fluid, there are 2 forces acting, the direct force from gravity acting directly on the object to move it down, and the indirect force from gravity where gravity creates a pressure gradient in the fluid which pushes the object up.

There is no force which acts against itself as an opposite you moron.

That would negate the very nature of energy and forces!

Like a wind builds up into a hurricane and destructs itself with too much wind!

Forces are one directional energy, they do not oppose themselves at some level or point!

Winds don’t get too strong and go against themselves!

Magnets dont pull all metals in at equal speed

There is no force which acts against itself as an opposite you moron.

Not directly, but this can be done indirectly with countless things.

Get a pole. Fix it in the middle so it can rotate about the middle. Put a sail on each end, and use the wind.
The wind acting on one sail acts against the wind acting on the other sail.

This is very easy to understand.

So the moron here once more is you.

Magnets dont pull all metals in at equal speed

And no one ever said they did.
Instead, what we said is that the force depends upon a property of the object.
Which you need to reject to pretend gravity should apply the same force to every object.


Yet again, we are right back where we were countless days ago, with you spouting pathetic BS because you hate gravity, while being completely incapable of showing any fault with it instead being reduced to repeatedly lying about it; and you not being able to offer any viable alternative. You can't even remain consistent as to if it is meant to be magical origin energy or simply being denser; but neither explains why things should fall. Only gravity (or something equivalent to it in that situation) does.

Again, all the evidence shows you need a force to accelerate an object.
So if you have an object in mid air, and it starts accelerating downwards, that needs a force.

Likewise, the existence of the pressure gradient, which is measurable and quantifiable, also requires a force to sustain it and prevent it from pushing everything up.

Your lies and wilful ignorance will not change that.

Forces are one directional energy, they do not oppose themselves at some level or point!

Forces and energy are related, but are not the same thing.  Forces do not oppose themselves, but multiple forces can act together or in opposition.

Why do things fall from air unless by an external force?

Why are things in air to begin with?  They weren’t in air, they were on the ground and put upward into air.

So we start by saying that things are always on the surface. Not in air. What happens if we put them up into air? We must use force to put them into air. They are more dense than air so must use force to overcome their greater density to put them into lesser density.

Their greater density than air makes them fall through the air back to the surface. They become a force through their downward motion through air

 They weren’t in air, they were on the ground and put upward into air.

Other than comet’s, meteorites, the planets, the moons, photons and charged particles from the sun? 

How do you accelerate a mass with density instead of a force? 

Why do things fall from air unless by an external force?

Yes, that is the question you can't answer.

Why are things in air to begin with?

It clearly doesn't matter.
Because it doesn't matter if an object was thrown straight up, or upwards at an angle, or thrown directly away from a slope, or broken off the face off a cliff, or broken and pulled downwards away from an overhand, or rolled off the edge of a table or into a hole in the ground, or even if it was a liquid that evaporated, and then condensed on a higher surface; in all these cases, they fall DOWN!

So it clearly has nothing to do with how they got there.
If that was the case, you would expect them to go backwards, not down.
It is clear there is a force accelerating them downwards.

They are more dense than air so must use force to overcome their greater density to put them into lesser density.

No, not in the slightest.
As there is no reason for that density to care at all.
You need a force to make that density care.

Their greater density than air makes them fall through the air back to the surface.

And do you know how this makes you even more pathetic?
If this was the case, you would just say that, rather than even attempting to appeal to how they got there.
Because why should it matter how they got there?
If it is a simple case of density, why wouldn't it work regardless of how they got there?
Why couldn't you just say that an object more dense than the fluid it is in will go down?

You spam so much BS arguing about how they got there, when this pathetic line of argumentation from you shouldn't care at all.
It shows you have no confidence at all in your argument.

And it isn't surprising, because all this pathetic BS your post can be summarised as:
"They go down because they are more dense than air."
Which provides no explanation at all for why they go down.

They become a force through their downward motion through air

Wrong again.
You need the force to make a downwards motion.
Even if you want to lie to everyone by claiming it is magic density, that still needs to be magic density making the force which then causes the object to accelerate downwards.

Again, all the available evidence shows that if you want to accelerate something, you need a force.
That they acceleration and force are related by the mass, i.e. F=m*a.
i.e. to accelerate an object of 1 kg, at a rate of 1 m/s^2 to the right, you need a force of 1 N to the right.

So what is the force making things go down?
Again, it isn't density, because that has no directionality.

Even if you want to lie to everyone by claiming it is magic density, that still needs to be magic density making the force which then causes the object to accelerate downwards.

Nothing magical about it, only common sense and perfectly logical.

Objects have to be taken off the surface, they aren’t in air or moving around on the surface at all by themselves.

There can be any number of external forces causing them into motion while on the surface, like a wind or something, otherwise they never move, from the surface.

So when we take a rock from the surface, and throw it up into air, where you’ve now thrown a denser object into a less dense medium, by your own external force, it is now not on the ground after a wind hits it along the ground. It’s now within a far less dense medium than the ground is, where they are motionless before you throw it up.

You had to use force to throw it up because it’s denser than air is. After it’s within air, it’s own density in a less dense medium makes it fall down through the air to the ground again, creating its own kinetic force in a fall through the less dense medium.

No external force is needed to pull down denser objects in a less dense medium, their greater density does that by itself. And they create a force of motion themselves in falling through air.

Same thing when you drop a rock into water, it sinks down through the water because it’s denser than water is.

The same principle holds for things that rise up in air and in water, being less dense than air or water.

A submarine uses relative density to water when it sinks down through water and then rises upward in water to its surface and floats atop it.

It uses ballast tanks inside them that fill up with water to sink down, becoming more dense than water, and then drains out the water in those tanks and they become less dense that water with only air in the tanks.

A balloon without air or helium in it has more density than air and stays on ground. When filled with air or helium is ivecomes less dense than the air and rises upward into the air. Helium has loess density than air so a helium balloon rises up higher than one filled with just air.

Ships float on water because they’re less dense than air along their bottoms to allow them to float atop it. If a hole is in the bottom it fills up with water and becomes denser that water and sinks down into it.

You certainly know a helium balloon rises up in air with no external force needed, right? So why do you think we need any force to pull objects down from air when they’re MORE dense than air?

You just want one motion to need a pulling down force, but not when they rise up into air?

That’s why you had to make up ANOTHER non existent force to excuse your failed first made up force that actually doesn’t pull all things down from air or holds all things to the surface!!

You needed to make up another bs force which actually explains both things being due to relative density of object in both mediums of air and water, and any other medium as well.

You sink in quicksand slower than in water because your denser than both mediums, but quicksand has more density than water does, so you sink down in it slower than in water

Nothing magical about it, only common sense and perfectly logical.

It is pure magic, directly defying common sense, and in no way logical.

Again, density provides no reason for things to move in any direction.
Again, origin, if it actually worked, would mean an object thrown to the right would fall to the left.
Neither works.

Objects have to be taken off the surface

Sure, I can find an overhang, and pull an object down, away from where it originated, and then it falls down.
It doesn't fall back up to where I pulled it away from.

So again, where it started clearly doesn't matter.

But even more so, I can take water, and boil it and it starts going up. Then it condenses and it starts going down.

Again, where it originated clearly doesn't matter.

Stop repeating the same pathetic, refuted BS.
It just shows how utterly pathetic and desperate you are.

And what shows this even more, is how you are so absolutely pathetic, and know your pathetic BS can't work, that you need to repeatedly switch between 2 contradictory ideas.

If it is about origin, then stop appealing to density. It should simply be it originated there, so if you move it away it goes back. And that should apply regardless of which direction it is moved.
If it is about density, then stop appealing to origin. It should not matter where the object originated, or how it got to where it is. Instead, it should simply be that it is denser so it goes down.

But you know that neither of these can work.
Origin means it should go back to where it originated, not down.

And you know density doesn't work, because you have no reason for why that should make it move.
So you need to continually switch back and forth; which just has the effect of showing you know you are spouting pure BS.

where they are motionless before you throw it up.

No, I threw it down, away from the overhang.

it’s own density in a less dense medium makes it fall down

WHY?
Stop just asserting the same pathetic BS.
Why should being denser make it go down?
How does this work to generate a force?

Again, if it is accelerating it needs a force.

The same principle holds for things that rise up in air and in water, being less dense than air or water.

You mean when you ignore reality.
Back in reality we see a balance between the downwards force due to gravity, and an upwards force due to the pressure gradient.
You know, the thing you need to keep fleeing from because it destroys your pathetic BS.

The upwards force due to the pressure gradient is equal in magnitude to the weight of the fluid displaced.

If this upwards force is greater, the object rises, if it is lower, it sinks (but its apparent weight is reduced).

You certainly know a helium balloon rises up in air with no external force needed, right?

No, I don't. Because that is pure BS as already explained.
There is a pressure gradient in all fluids. This is easily verifiable and measurable.
This is an external force acting on everything in that fluid.
That includes the helium filled balloon.
That means the helium filled balloon is being pushed upwards by the air.

You know this.
You appeal to this pressure gradient when you are spamming pure BS about airplanes.

So you know this pressure gradient exists.
And you would have to be a complete imbecile to not realise that pressure gradient provides an upwards force.

If you place a scale above the helium filled balloon, and zero it, and then measure the total upwards force on the balloon, and then calculate the upwards force from the pressure gradient, you find you are missing a downwards force acting on the balloon.

So that gives us 3 reasons to need an external force trying to pull things down.
1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

That’s why you had to make up ANOTHER non existent force

Now try that again honestly.
Due to the first real force, which has been repeatedly demonstrated beyond any sane doubt, the air (and other fluids) are pulled down, creating a pressure gradient which pushes up objects immersed in it, directly giving that force you claim is a second made up force.

But because you are so adamant about rejecting that first real force; you are now desperately forced to dismiss the resulting force as fake as well, and then also ignore or reject the pressure gradient or the logical consequences of it.

i.e. your pathetic BS falls apart, while reality with gravity continues to work just fine, with you still unable to show a single fault.

No reason for why density of an object within a less dense medium should ever make it move through the air at all?

I’m sure you believe there’s a good reason that it should remain suspended up within the air, instead?

Helium balloons move upward into air, for no reason at all, right?

No, they move upward by another made up force when the first made up force failed to account for major flaws killing it!

No reason for why density of an object within a less dense medium should ever make it move through the air at all?

That's right. You have no reason at all. All you can do is repeatedly make your pathetic assertion.

I’m sure you believe there’s a good reason that it should remain suspended up within the air, instead?

Yes.
No force=no acceleration.
So without a force it can't accelerate downwards.
This has been proven beyond any sane doubt.

Helium balloons move upward into air, for no reason at all, right?

No, because the pressure gradient of the atmosphere pushes them up.
You know, that thing you need to repeatedly ignore and flee from because it completely and utterly destroys your pathetic BS?

No, they move upward by another made up force when the first made up force failed to account for major flaws killing it!

You sure do love repeating this pathetic lie don't you?

Again, the pressure gradient is a direct logical consequence of gravity.
And a direct logical consequence of this pressure gradient is an upwards force on objects.
And this pressure gradient is measurable and quantifiable, and proven beyond any sane doubt.

You just repeatedly ignoring it and trying to dismiss it all as "another made up force", just shows how utterly pathetic, dishonest and desperate you are.

Likewise, you continually appealing to these "major flaws", when you can't show a single flaw at all, just shows how utterly pathetic, dishonest and desperate you are.

Again, gravity remains and works just fine.
Your pathetic BS doesn't work at all.

And reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

Helium balloons move upward into air, for no reason at all, right?

Helium balloons move upward into air because its buoyant force is greater than the gravitational force. 

Quote from: turbonium2 on October 18, 2025, 04:40:37 AM

Helium balloons move upward into air, for no reason at all, right?

Helium balloons move upward into air because its buoyant force is greater than the gravitational force.

No, you’ve had to make up two different non-existent forces because the first one failed miserably to hold up as an actual force.

Everything of your first made up force proved it was rubbish.

Compare any actual force to your made up one, the whole thing doesn’t hold up at all.

Every actual force offers resistance to things opposing it, only your bs force offers no resistance at all. Birds don’t have any resistance to flying above the surface from any force. Same as insects fly above the surface freely and without any resistance from a made up force within a ball Earth!

We fall from air freely, never feel ourselves being ‘pulled down to the surface’ from any force below us!

Look at how magnets resist opposing forces to them. Hold a steel nail near a magnet, we feel it pulling in the nail in our hand. That’s how actual forces are, they resist opposing forces. Pull a steel nail held to a magnet, again feel the resistance to our pull of the mail from the magnets surface.

Wind is felt hitting us from behind and in front of us, from behind going with the wind propels us faster in our walk or run. When walking or running against a wind, we feel it resist our motion, and we move slower as a result.

Those are just some features of all actual forces that are not found with your made up force. Two absolute fundamental features of all actual forces, offering resistance to opposing forces, and are FELT BY US resisting against us and assisting us when moving with them.

Every actual force has been proven by measuring them, as energy. They don’t exist if they cannot be measured as forces, and again, only your made up force cannot be measured as an actual force at all! 

In fact, your made up force would be easily proven if it actually existed at all!

Your argument is that a force exists in all things, but Earth has much more of that force within it, being so much larger and heavier than anything else on Earth!

This would have nothing to do with density of things on Earth, mass alone is supposed to be the only factor of your bs force!

You can’t say your made up force pulls down and holds down all things to Earths surface, except things with less density than air and water, it’s completely ridiculous.

An empty balloon is supposedly ‘held down to the surface’ by your made up force! It shouldn’t matter if it’s filled with helium or not, your bs force would still ‘hold it down to the surface’ as before. It has the very same mass as before, just less density than before!  It should be no different because of its density being less than air! Same as a sub should sink in water, what would being less ir more dense than water make any difference to what the sun does in water?

Both air and water have different densities, you claim both air and water are held down to Earths surface, but air exists high above Earths surface, not on the surface at all. That makes no sense either. If a force exists in Earth, holds down all things to Earths surface, then it should hold down all the air to Earths surface too!

Nothing is consistent or logical or valid about your fantasy force, because it’s entirely made up, how could it possibly work as an actual force when it’s nothing but bs?

Quote from: markjo on October 18, 2025, 02:45:08 PM

Quote from: turbonium2 on October 18, 2025, 04:40:37 AM

Helium balloons move upward into air, for no reason at all, right?

Helium balloons move upward into air because its buoyant force is greater than the gravitational force.

No, you’ve had to make up two different non-existent forces because the first one failed miserably to hold up as an actual force.

Okay, you got me.  According to GR, gravity is not a force but an acceleration.  However, weight (mass x gravitational acceleration) is a force.  So, if you really want to be nitpicky, I should have said that helium balloons move upward into the because its buoyant force is greater than the weight of the balloon.  Better?

An acceleration doesn’t exist as an entity, it’s an action of motion for objects within a medium or environment, and so forth.

The made up force isn’t really a force, it’s an accelerant of some type, but so what?

A big stupid story is all it is

No, you’ve had to make up two different non-existent forces because the first one failed miserably to hold up as an actual force.

Repeating the same pathetic lie again and again wont save you.

Again, buoyancy is a result of gravity, as explained repeatedly.
Again, gravity acts on fluids, creating a pressure gradient, which in turn pushes objects up.

And importantly, this pressure gradient is directly measurable.
And sane people know what a pressure gradient does, it pushes things.

But because of how utterly pathetic, your pathetic BS is, you need to continually ignore this, pretend this pressure gradient doesn't exist, because it kills your pathetic fantasy.

Again, all you are doing with these pathetic lies is showing everyone that you are worthless, pathetic, desperate, lying, subhuman scum that doesn't give a damn about the truth at all.

Compare any actual force to your made up one

You mean compare it to YOUR made up force, your pathetic strawman of gravity.
If you instead compare it to actual gravity, it works fine; with you still unable to show a single felt, and instead just repeating the same pathetic lies.

Every actual force offers resistance to things opposing it

Including gravity.
That is why I can't just go out to a car and lift it up 1 handed. Instead, the more massive the object is the greater the resistance.
Just like real forces.

Birds don’t have any resistance to flying

Just what do you think their wings are for you complete imbecile?

We fall

That's right, we FALL.
As if something is pulling us down.
And to stop that, we need to resist that fall, to apply a force to hold even ourselves up.
If someone breaks your legs, you can't stand, because you lack the ability to resist the very real force of gravity.

Look at how magnets resist opposing forces to them. Hold a steel nail near a magnet, we feel it pulling in the nail in our hand. That’s how actual forces are, they resist opposing forces.

Just like gravity, where if you try to lift a heavy object, you feel it pulling in your hand.

Wind is felt hitting us from behind and in front of us, from behind going with the wind propels us faster in our walk or run. When walking or running against a wind, we feel it resist our motion, and we move slower as a result.

Just like gravity, where we find it so much easier to go downhill with gravity than uphill against it.
We see this very easily with cars, where the car can roll down the hill without any force required from the car's engine; meanwhile depending on the car, the load and the hill, the car can seriously struggle to go uphill against gravity, some can't go up.

Those are just some features of all actual forces

That are also found with gravity.
But because of how utterly pathetic and desperate you are, you need to repeatedly lie about it.

Every actual force has been proven by measuring them

Just like gravity.

as energy.

No, as a force.
But don't worry, we can also measure energy for gravity.
What do you think they are harnessing for hydroelectric powerplants?

only your made up force cannot be measured as an actual force at all!

No, that would still be your pathetic strawman.
Back in reality, gravity can and is measured as an actual force.
You lying about it wont change that fact.
It just shows how utterly pathetic, desperate and dishonest you are.

Again, just what are you hoping to achieve with this blatant and obvious lies?
To show everyone how utterly pathetic you and the FE movement in general is?
How in order to pretend there is a problem with the RE model you need to repeatedly lie to everyone?

In fact, your made up force would be easily proven

And it has been. Many times. Beyond any sane doubt.
But that doesn't stop subhuman scum like you from repeatedly lying about it.

An empty balloon is supposedly ‘held down to the surface’ by your made up force!

Again, this is like complaining that gravity must be wrong because the light kid on the see-saw goes up, while you ignore the heavy kid going down.

Again, that pressure gradient that exists BECAUSE OF GRAVITY (and something you can't explain at all), pushes EVERYTHING up.
And gravity is not magic, it is not going to magically hold things down regardless of what other forces act.

Nothing is consistent or logical or valid about your fantasy force

No, that would still just be your strawman.
You are yet to demonstrate a single inconsistency with gravity. Instead you just repeatedly lie to everyone like the pathetic, desperate, lying, subhuman scum you are.

Again, gravity remains and works just fine.
Your pathetic BS doesn't work at all.

And reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

An acceleration doesn’t exist as an entity, it’s an action of motion for objects within a medium or environment, and so forth.

The made up force isn’t really a force, it’s an accelerant of some type, but so what?

A big stupid story is all it is

It may sound stupid to you, but the math matches real world observations and that has to be worth something. 

Tell you what, why don’t you show us your math of how buoyancy works without gravity?  It seems long past time for you to put up or shut up.  Don’t tell us why we’re wrong, show us why you’re right.

Who ignored the entire reason for objects to ever BECOME IN MOTION, along or above Earths surface, but has the utter arrogance and gall to claim he has written an actual ‘Law of Motion’ about objects in motion!!??

Objects aren’t in motion, and when objects ARE in motion, that’s not the starting point for any sort of supposed ‘Law of Motion’, leaving out what created the motion to effin start with!!

A fall through air, is very different in all ways than being pulled down from below the air, and any actual pull on us downward from air, by any actual external forces we can use, or a force from above us in air pushing us further and faster diwnward in a fall through air, is immediately felt by us, it is instantly felt and recognized by us , as an external force acting on us within air.

Air resistance is always felt by us too, blowing us sideways or whatever.

Being pulled on our leg or by a wind on our whole body is always felt by us, as an external force acting on us.

When we hold a piece of steel near a magnet, we feel it’s force on the metal pulling it in towards it. And resisting our pull of a metal that is on a magnets surface, obviously.

No force acts out on us and isn’t felt by us. It’s not possible, not in the real world.

Things don’t exist within air, things exist on the ground or surface of Earth, below the air above the surface of Earth where things DO EXIST .

And if everything on Earth, has always existed on the surface of Earth, on ground or in waters of Earth, each and every thing of the countless number of all things that are on Earth, have always been on Earth as we know it, and ever since then have been on Earth too…

Yet other things are above Earth, stars and so on, and they’ve always existed above Earth as we know it and ever since then. 

What this all indicates is that all of them were created on Earth and some created above Earth, nothing else would indicate otherwise. Nothing at all.

It’s us changing the conditions and the environment of objects by putting them up into the air, which makes objects of greater density than the air, fall through the air downward, without any support from below them but the less dense air…

The relative density of an object in a medium is what creates their upward or downward motion within the mediums. Their motion is created when they’re within another medium or environment to their own environment.

It’s that simple, and it works perfectly and consistently in all cases and situations.

Saying things don’t move unless an external force acts on them is normal conditions, where things are on Earth, not when put up into air, those are not normal conditions. They are not normal conditions. There is no force needed to pull things down from air, only greater density makes them fall through air downward to the surface of Earth.

Who ignored

It isn't ignored. It is irrelevant, as we have been over countless times.

A fall through air, is very different in all ways than being pulled down from below the air

You mean gravity acting to pull all of you down together feels quite different to someone attaching a massive weight to your foot.

But again, you spout pure BS.
If the force is light enough, you don't feel it.
Are you really suggesting you would feel a fly land of your jeans and pull them down?

And we can feel us resisting gravity.
You are just used to it.

When we hold a piece of steel near a magnet, we feel it’s force on the metal pulling it in towards it. And resisting our pull of a metal that is on a magnets surface, obviously.

Just like if we hold a large mass near Earth, we feel it's force on the mass pulling it in towards it, and resisting our pull of that mass.

Again, you feel gravity.
Lying about it wont change it.

[origin]

Your origin BS has been refuted countless times.
Why keep bring it up?

And if everything on Earth, has always existed on the surface of Earth

i.e. if your entirely delusional, and entirely baseless claim is true; which relies upon rejecting evidence that shows it is wrong.
I think we can safely discard that garbage.

putting them up

Again, it is NOT always up.
It can be in any direction, even down. And yet they still fall down.
This shows it has NOTHING to do with where they originated.

It’s that simple, and it works perfectly and consistently in all cases and situations.

It doesn't work at all.

Saying things don’t move unless an external force acts on them is normal conditions,

i.e. you are fully aware that what you are claiming is entirely abnormal.
So you act like it is pure magic.
It is pathetic.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

We do not ever feel objects we hold up in air being pulled down by any external force below an object we hold in air.

We realize that when we DO FEEL A PULL FROM OUR ACTUAL FORCES!

How could we feel the pull of a small magnet on a small piece of metal in our hand, but feel nothing of a pull from a massive force on a much heavier object we’re holding up in the air?  It would rip the object from our arms down to the surface, much more strength needed to pull down a heavy object to the surface by a force than a tiny piece of metal to a small magnet would require from a force!

We do not ever feel objects we hold up in air being pulled down by any external force below an object we hold in air.

Wilfully lying wont help you.
We DO feel something trying to make that object we are holding go down.
This causes strain on us when we resist it.
Depending on the setup, it can even leave quite significant marks in the skin, or cut or crush the hand.

Just what are you hoping to achieve with such blatant lies?

but feel nothing of a pull from a massive force on a much heavier object we’re holding up in the air?  It would rip the object from our arms down to the surface

Please provide an example of you holding a 1 ton bolder by yourself, without it being ripped from your arm.

Again, what you are hoping to achieve with these blatant lies?

We DO feel something pulling things down. But that pull has to be significant enough for us to feel it.
If you have a speck of dust land on your shoe, you don't feel it.
But if you have a 1 kg weight, you do.

Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

There’s no way to know how things which are, today, which were before today, which will be after today, have always been that way, but compared to your argument, their trash, my argument destroys yours as nothing but crap…


Everything has always existed on Earth, or above Earth, and nothing else has landed on Earth from above, except rain and snow from clouds above Earth, for example, and clouds have always existed in the air, always at such heights above Earths surface, as certain types of clouds, at certain heights above Earths surface….

Their story is complete bs, of course.

No object or anything at all on Earth has ever been seen to come down from above Earth, to land down on Earths surface, and remain on Earth since that time!

Telling us that these are ‘comets or meteors’ flying around Earth in ‘endless space’!!!

Space is made up to start with.

The stuff in endless space which is where meteors and comets exist within, ok?!

I’m addressing the question of this thread, asking what holds us down to Earth?

Assuming things would float around in air or space otherwise?


What is that based on? All things are on Earth, always have been on Earth as we know it.

Everything on Earth has more density than air, that’s what holds everything down to the surface of Earth, their own greater density than that of air above them, less than the surface below them.  Easy as that.

my argument destroys yours as nothing but crap

What argument?
That things just magically fall? For no reason at all?
Where you need to continually ignore things which show your claim is pure BS?

You have destroyed nothing.
Instead, you just keep spouting crap.

In fact, your lack of argument seems so pathetic, you can't even seem to address what I said, and instead just need to keep repeating the same pathetic crap that doesn't help you at all.

Assuming things would float around in air or space otherwise?
What is that based on?

All the experiments demonstrating that if you want to accelerate something you need to apply a force.
So no force, no acceleration.


Again, reality shows beyond any sane doubt that a downwards force proportional to mass is needed.

1 - In order to accelerate, an object needs a force acting on it. So for things to fall, they need a downwards force acting on them. And density is not a force. Starting on the ground is not a force.
2 - In order for an object to not be pushed upwards by that pressure gradient, it needs a downwards force to counter it, and even in cases where it does go up, you still need a downwards force to get the resulting force on the object.
3 - In order to maintain this pressure gradient, even the air (or other fluid) needs a downwards force acting on it. Even when it is the same density as the fluid around it, or more dense than the fluid above and less dense than the fluid below, it still needs that force.

So why do you reject all this and instead wilfully lie to everyone by claiming no such force is needed and that objects just magically accelerate without a force?
Why do you repeatedly ignore this pressure gradient which destroys your delusional fantasy?

I’ve told you many times why things always fall downward after being PUT UP INTO AIR BY AN EXTERNAL FORCE ACTING ON THEM.

Things are on Earth. Motionless things stay on the surface of Earth, motionless.

So here is where things on earth have always existed, or they didn’t always exist on Earth.

We cannot possibly prove which one is true, so the evidence is what we know is true and not true from thousands of years we know about it.

Why would everything fall down in that one direction at all?

They are on the surface, not in the air above the surface, so they have to be taken off the surface, and thrown up into the air, by an external force acting on them. 

The external force puts them into a very different environment and medium than they were always in.

Their greater density is why things always stay on the surface, and why they fall through the less dense air downward without any support below them in air.

That’s why things don’t exist in air, but when we put them up into air, their greater mass and density must use external force to throw them up into the less dense air.

So what this creates by your actions has a denser object in a less dense medium all around it….

There’s only one result possible at all. It falls through the air below it directly downward to the surface once again.

The objects weren’t in air before we put them up. - a single direction, why not any direction at all?

Put a rock into a lake, it sinks down through less dense water.

Helium balloons rise up in air, being less dense than air.  Your force proved to be crap, of course. Let’s make up another force to solve this problem !!!


Such a joke

The objects weren’t in air before we put them up. - a single direction, why not any direction at all?

Put a rock into a lake, it sinks down through less dense water.

Helium balloons rise up in air, being less dense than air.  Your force proved to be crap, of course. Let’s make up another force to solve this problem !!!


Such a joke

I can take a balloon filled with air and place it at about a depth of 15ft and it won't rise through the more dense water.   Based on how you claim it works, the more dense water should push below the less dense balloon and cause the balloon to rise.