crescent moon question

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Kami

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2023, 01:05:47 PM »
Bulma, this is probably the only thing that I will ever concede to you. Yes, this is an incredible coincidence.
I disagree that it is an incredible coincidence.
The distance to the moon varies from 362 600 to 405 400 km (and increasing), while the distance to the sun varies from ~ 147 Gm to 152 Gm.
This means the Moon's angular size, relative to the sun varies from 96% to 110%.

It isn't perfect.
And if it was different, you can just pick some other number.
For example, if it was much further away you could instead go for the size of Earth's shadow during a total lunar eclipse.
Or it being the same apparent size as a different celestial object.
Meh, still, the fact that the two largest sources of light in the sky are approximately the same size so that we can have amazing solar eclipses is a cool coincidence. Sure, a posteriori coincidences are always questionable, I agree, but still. If bulma has ever made a point, this is it.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2023, 01:21:20 PM »
Meh, still, the fact that the two largest sources of light in the sky are approximately the same size so that we can have amazing solar eclipses is a cool coincidence. Sure, a posteriori coincidences are always questionable, I agree, but still. If bulma has ever made a point, this is it.
All that is required for a solar eclipse is for the moon to have a larger angular size than a sun.
So even if the moon was much larger, we would still get amazing solar eclipses.

But I do agree that this may be the closest to making a point bulma has gotten.

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2023, 03:06:08 PM »
I agree, the moon/sun size/distance thing is amazing. But here in lies the problem...

It's not so much of the coincidence of this phenomenon, but more as to how does it all work on a flat earth. There's always talk of how there's this anomaly or coincidence in RE, which are few and far between, as well as mostly explainable, in quite simple terms. What's perpetually missing is the other side of the coin: How does it work in FE?

There are zero plausible explanations that I've encountered that explain FE moonphases or eclipses. Especially when observed from various locations at the same time and predicting and tracking the observable umbra path, respectively. Just to name a couple.

The issue is not an interesting coincidental RE/Helio phenomenon, but how exactly does FE work? And how does it work to a satisfactory, "Yes, that is plausible, yes, that is observable, and yes, that actually has a proven utility" extent. For all intents and purposes, from a scorecard perspective, I would say RE moon/sun size/distance versus FE not even knowing where the sun & moon are nor their size at all is a draw. Now add in all of the other phenomena, eclipses, moonphases, etc., FE loses across the board. Enough with the conspiracy freemasonic NWO tree-hugging everyone-is-lying NASA lizards and more of, "Ok, how does it work in your non-conspiracy freemasonic NWO tree-hugging everyone-is-lying NASA lizards world?"

I mean, there isn't even an FE map for goodness sake. It doesn't get much more basic than that. Yet another -1 point for FE.

So the script needs to be flipped. Not where someone is under the impression that RE is somehow inadequate, but more to how exactly is FE adequate at all.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2023, 04:44:53 PM »
But the thing is, I don't need a specific model.

If you could make a case that the Earth is actually ark-shaped, or pyramidal go for it!

The thing is, models when presented have to work.
If the Earth were pyramidal, you'd have water sliding off the sides (the same problem of a round Earth, with the added fun of gravity from the sun and massive rotation somehow holding together a sloshing ball of water), you'd have crazy slope, and the sun rising and setting would be very very strange.

Any theory is fine, but it needs consistency. It is not enough for people in lab coats to give it the kosher mark.

I just told you how FE is adequate:
- You do not need any explanation for why the sun and moon appear the same size. They simply ARE the same size.
- There is no requirement on the sun's size or mass, as there is no requirement for the Earth to orbit the sun. It in fact can, while remaining 100% upright. But I'm a geocentrist.
- Because of this, we do not have crazy heat or upward force.
-There is no inconsistency on gravity (in fact, gravity is not even required if you account for it with other forces). Lack of strong central gravity means objects only fall in one direction (down), and propulsion and aerodynamics can easily overcome it.
-There is no problem with a flat Earth holding water, provided it has an edge of rock/ice/etc
But yes, if you can find a better theory than both FE and RE, go for it.

Here, let's all be ark Earthers. The ark can float on the void of space, it can wobble instead of having to rotate, and Noah memes forever.

 ;D
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2023, 05:47:37 PM »
I just told you how FE is adequate:

Except you left out a bunch of other stuff...a partial list...

- You don't know where the image of the moon is hidden for it to be projected on your dome
- You have no idea what causes the arc'd phases of the moon nor when they will happen
- You don't know how eclipses are created as observed
- You have no idea where an eclipse umbra can be tracked/observed
- You have no idea why or how everyone on the planet sees the same phases at the same time
- You have no map to even attempt the above

And the last one is a doozy. You have no map. If you want to claim the UN monopole is your map go right ahead. Which I've always found absolutely ironically hilarious, FEr's trotting out their flat earth map when it's actually an AE projection from the globe.

You have no way of navigating the world we live on. None. The planes we fly, the ships we sail, nothing. Silly stuff like the sun and moon same size, projected on a dome from nowhere. That seems "adequate"? See above, without those answered, there is nothing about that that is "adequate". Without a map, you don't even know where we can view eclipses from. That's not "adequate". Without knowing where the sun and moon are and why people all over the world see the same moonphases at the same time, that's not "adequate". You don't even know the distance from NYC to Paris. That's "adequate"? You don't even know where continents are in relation to one another...Adequate? Icewalls, no evidence, inadequate. Domes, no evidence, inadequate.

Literally, all you think you have is a global freemasonic NWO tree-hugging everyone-is-lying NASA lizards conspiracy involving the entire planet. Countries, Governments, Corporations, regular people, all in cahoots to hide the true shape of the earth. That is literally it. Everybody is in on it, from pilots to midshipmen, from amateur astrophotgraphers to telescope makers, from AM radio transmissions to satellites, structural engineers to roller coaster designers, surveyors to cartographers, the list goes on. Pretty much everyone and everything. And you think all that is on the sharp simple side of occam's razor? I think not.
Adequate? Not even close.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2023, 01:44:13 AM »
But the thing is, I don't need a specific model.
If you want to invoke Occam's razor, YOU DO!
You need to provide a coherent model, which has the same or greater explanatory power, yet is simpler.

Otherwise your "simple" garbage can be discarded as garbage.

The thing is, models when presented have to work.
Yes, and that is what you are failing to provide.
The RE model works.
It explains what is observed in reality.
You are unable to show a fault with it.
Conversely the delusional crap you have provided does not work.
It can't even explain the phases of the moon.

the same problem of a round Earth
No, not the same problem for the RE.
You repeating the same refuted BS will not magically turn that BS into a problem.
Your wilful ignorance or reality, will not magically turn reality into a problem.

You are yet to demonstrate ANY problem for the RE.

I just told you how FE is adequate:
No, you haven't.
You have failed to explain with the FE, you have repeatedly avoided the simple question of the moon's phases.
So no, it is NOT adequate.

If it was adequate, you would have been able to explain how the phases work for a FE.

They simply ARE the same size.
Again, annular solar eclipses demonstrates that that is pure BS.

-There is no inconsistency on gravity
There is no inconsistency for a RE.
Instead you have pure magic, with some things magically floating above Earth for no reason at all, and other things falling to Earth for no reason at all.


But yes, if you can find a better theory than both FE and RE, go for it.
We have a theory much better than FE, the RE theory.
Unlike the FE theory, the RE theory can actually explain what is observed.

If you think you have a better model, provide it, and start by explaining how the phases of the moon work.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2023, 06:28:00 AM »
I just told you how FE is adequate:

Except you left out a bunch of other stuff...a partial list...

- You don't know where the image of the moon is hidden for it to be projected on your dome
When you build a computer program there are things called pointers. You don't know where they are, because they've created a file reference. But you don't really need to know where the reference is. What you do need to know is that you've properly gotten rid of them (prevention of memory leak) after the program is done running. When you make a projection of an object, it is the same thing in reverse. You don't need to know where the original actually is (in fact there's a scientific principle called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, that says you never have any idea where atomic and subatomic matter is at any given second because of velocity and location). You need to maybe know patterns of angles of the projection, enough to predict future moment. But the original? Forget about it.

- You have no idea what causes the arc'd phases of the moon nor when they will happen
I explained multiple times what causes the arc phases. Relative angles of the sun and moon against each other. The sun casts light on the moon. How difficult is this to understand? When the sun is not at a good angle to cast light on the moon it is new. When it is at a perfect angle, it's full. Between that, it has phases.
- You don't know how eclipses are created as observed
Just as the two can be in alignment on opposite sides of a person (where you have to turn around to look at them), they can line up within the same sky. Lunar eclipse is when the sun at a distance removed from sight moves into the path of a full moon. Solar eclipse is when a new moon moves into the path of the sun while it is within sight (hasn't set yet).
- You have no idea where an eclipse umbra can be tracked/observed
I don't know what the umbra is. And I don't care, before you start to tell me. It's irrelevant to everything.
- You have no idea why or how everyone on the planet sees the same phases at the same time
They can't. They can see it on the same DAY not the same time, thanks to timezones. And yes I explained the phases above. They can see it on the same day, precisely because the Earth is flat, and the sun and moon move mostly in sync, gradually slipping away from perfect alignment to not reflecting sunlight to back again (this is about 6° shift from one day to the next, given the 30 day cycle from new moon to new moon.
- You have no map to even attempt the above
You happen to know I can't draw maps

And the last one is a doozy. You have no map. If you want to claim the UN monopole is your map go right ahead. Which I've always found absolutely ironically hilarious, FEr's trotting out their flat earth map when it's actually an AE projection from the globe.
Why is this one a "doozy"? You think you can actually get around using a globe to navigate. You can't, even leaving out that a globe is heavy as fuck and big AF.  There's curvature vertically. There's curvature horizontally. You would basically be walking in a circle and trying to adjust to the vertical curvature if you used the globe as an accurate projection of the Earth. Like the kid on the left, you'd have to lean back to compensate for vertical curvature.

You have no way of navigating the world we live on. None. The planes we fly, the ships we sail, nothing. Silly stuff like the sun and moon same size, projected on a dome from nowhere. That seems "adequate"? See above, without those answered, there is nothing about that that is "adequate". Without a map, you don't even know where we can view eclipses from. That's not "adequate". Without knowing where the sun and moon are and why people all over the world see the same moonphases at the same time, that's not "adequate". You don't even know the distance from NYC to Paris. That's "adequate"? You don't even know where continents are in relation to one another...Adequate? Icewalls, no evidence, inadequate. Domes, no evidence, inadequate.
They're called maps. A road map is sufficient to get from point A to point B. I don't fly or sail, but I'm pretty sure they also have nautical maps and such. I think hear ranting and raving. What I think or feel? Actually none of your business. I've chosen to talk to you, and you've just broken the first rule of debate (stay dispassionate).

Tell me if you see any curvature on this map.
Adequate? Not even close.

It's adequate.

Btw, have you ever really looked at this symbol?


It's a flat Earth! Complete with a rather thick ICE WALL. They are lying to you. I know they're lying to you. And you're lying to me and and yourself. But unlike you, I won't be fooled again.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 06:33:59 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Kami

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2023, 07:57:53 AM »
What is it with this obsession of conspiracy theorists that the conspirators always have to show subtle signs of the lies? If I tried to hide the shape of the earth, I would not make its true map my official logo. Why would I risk that, if I am so evil and nefarious and want to hide the truth from everyone?

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2023, 11:11:46 AM »
I just told you how FE is adequate:

Except you left out a bunch of other stuff...a partial list...

- You don't know where the image of the moon is hidden for it to be projected on your dome
When you build a computer program there are things called pointers. You don't know where they are, because they've created a file reference. But you don't really need to know where the reference is.


In computer science, a pointer is an object in many programming languages that stores a memory address. This can be that of another value located in computer memory, or in some cases, that of memory-mapped computer hardware. A pointer references a location in memory, and obtaining the value stored at that location is known as dereferencing the pointer. As an analogy, a page number in a book's index could be considered a pointer to the corresponding page; dereferencing such a pointer would be done by flipping to the page with the given page number and reading the text found on that page. The actual format and content of a pointer variable is dependent on the underlying computer architecture.

The text on the page is the image of the moon being referenced by the "projector". A pointer simply references where the data you seek is stored. If there is no data, the reference pointer has nothing to return. If the pointer finds no moon image stored at the location, it has no image to return. So no, your analogy does not work.

- You have no idea what causes the arc'd phases of the moon nor when they will happen
I explained multiple times what causes the arc phases. Relative angles of the sun and moon against each other. The sun casts light on the moon. How difficult is this to understand? When the sun is not at a good angle to cast light on the moon it is new. When it is at a perfect angle, it's full. Between that, it has phases.

Because your "angles" explanation does not resolve the issue. What causes the crescent? And this has not been resolved:



- You don't know how eclipses are created as observed
Just as the two can be in alignment on opposite sides of a person (where you have to turn around to look at them), they can line up within the same sky. Lunar eclipse is when the sun at a distance removed from sight moves into the path of a full moon. Solar eclipse is when a new moon moves into the path of the sun while it is within sight (hasn't set yet).

Your explanation of a lunar eclipse makes no sense. It would mean that every time the Sun is at a some arbitrary distance from the moon we would have a lunar eclipse. We don't. That is not observed.

Show us on your Globe projection AE FE "map" how a lunar eclipse would occur.

- You have no idea where an eclipse umbra can be tracked/observed
I don't know what the umbra is. And I don't care, before you start to tell me. It's irrelevant to everything.

Ignorance is bliss. Hardly irrelevant. For the 2017 eclipse, RE was able to predict exactly, down to the km, where the umbra would be and its edge bands - And those predictions matched exactly what was observed by millions. How might you make the same predictions? What methodology would you use?




- You have no idea why or how everyone on the planet sees the same phases at the same time
They can't. They can see it on the same DAY not the same time, thanks to timezones. And yes I explained the phases above. They can see it on the same day, precisely because the Earth is flat, and the sun and moon move mostly in sync, gradually slipping away from perfect alignment to not reflecting sunlight to back again (this is about 6° shift from one day to the next, given the 30 day cycle from new moon to new moon.

What forms the crescent moon?

- You have no map to even attempt the above
You happen to know I can't draw maps

They're called maps. A road map is sufficient to get from point A to point B. I don't fly or sail, but I'm pretty sure they also have nautical maps and such.

What does you not sailing or or flying have to do with anything? Are you the only person on the planet?


Tell me if you see any curvature on this map.

Do you see curvature on this nautical map?



Now look at the inset:



See that bit where it says, "Mercator Projection"?

Mercator Projection:


See that bit where it says, "North American Datum of 1983"?

"The definition of NAD 83(1986) is based on the GRS 80 spheroid, as was WGS 84, so many older publications indicate no difference. WGS 84 subsequently changed to a slightly less flattened spheroid.
Because the Earth is curved and in GIS we deal with flat map projections, we need to accommodate both the curved and flat views of the world. In surveying and geodesy, we accurately define these properties with geodetic datums."


The data that comprises the nautical chart (map) is based upon the spheroid (ellipsoid) of earth. Aka, a globe.

Btw, have you ever really looked at this symbol?


Wrong again. First off, if your half-baked notion were correct, the southern tip of South America must be in the ice wall. We might want to let the folks that live there know. Secondly...

The emblem of the United Nations was approved by General Assembly resolution 92 (I) of 7 December 1946.

Description:  The design is "a map of the world representing an azimuthal equidistant projection centered on the North Pole, inscribed in a wreath consisting of crossed conventionalized branches of the olive tree, in gold on a field of smoke-blue with all water areas in white. The projection of the map extends to 60 degrees south latitude, and includes five concentric circles" (A/107).


Azimuthal equidistant projection:
"In the polar aspect, the meridians project as straight lines originating at the pole, and angles between them are true. The parallels are shown as equally spaced concentric circular arcs. All graticule line intersections are 90°.
Although the projection can display the entire globe, its practical usage is often limited to a hemisphere. This projection is most commonly used for maps of polar regions and routes of air and sea navigation with appropriate aspect.




Oh wait, they are lying to us. That's right, everything in your world comes down to a global conspiracy, nothing else. I forgot.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2023, 11:28:54 AM »
in fact there's a scientific principle called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, that says you never have any idea where atomic and subatomic matter is at any given second because of velocity and location
You sure do love spouting pure delusional BS.
That principle states there is an uncertainty associated with it, and that you can never get a perfect measurement.
That is drastically different to no idea.

A simple example is an electron bound to an atom. We can easily narrow it down to the electron cloud, but we can't pinpoint the location inside it.

Conversely, you have no idea at all, because you are just making up BS to try and prop up a failure.

I explained multiple times what causes the arc phases.
No, you didn't.
You gave lame excuses which failed to explain anything.
Excuses which were quickly exposed to be pure garbage.
You also provided contradictory explanations.

Relative angles of the sun and moon against each other. The sun casts light on the moon. How difficult is this to understand? When the sun is not at a good angle to cast light on the moon it is new. When it is at a perfect angle, it's full. Between that, it has phases.
The problem is how it goes between the phases, how long it stays in the phases and the specific shapes observed.

If you want to have your sun as a spotlight illuminated the moon, then you have a quick transition from new to full as the moon enters that spotlight, with it remaining a new moon while it is outside the spotlight and remaining full while inside. But the biggest issue is how it changes between.
With this delusional BS you would expect it to be like 2 overlapping circles. A partially illuminated moon (i.e. when we observe a crescent) would instead look like this:


That is NOT a crescent.
It also wouldn't produce a quarter moon, or a gibbous moon.
There is no way to have a flat moon simply entering or exiting a spotlight to produce these different illumination patterns.

The closest you have come to explaining it is when you just took the RE explanation, that the moon is round, and the phases are based upon the angular separation between the sun and the observer (at the moon).
But for a close moon that would make the phases different for different locations on Earth.

Just as the two can be in alignment on opposite sides of a person (where you have to turn around to look at them), they can line up within the same sky. Lunar eclipse is when the sun at a distance removed from sight moves into the path of a full moon. Solar eclipse is when a new moon moves into the path of the sun while it is within sight
And this is just a collection of nonsense.
It doesn't explain anything.
First remember that you have declared that these are projections, not actually objects. So are you saying the projections are doing this? Or are there some physical objects that are being projected?

Additionally, remember that you have declared that these objects are the same distance away. That means if they move into each others path they collide. Conversely, you have them switching which is closer.

It also has other massive problems, if the sun is out of sight, has does it move into the path of the moon which is in sight to create a solar eclipse?
If the sun is moving into the path, why don't we see the sun? It should make it a lot brighter, not darker.
Especially when we can observe the start of a lunar eclipse with the sun and moon both in the sky just above the horizon, with them clearly in opposite sides of the sky?

I don't know what the umbra is. And I don't care, before you start to tell me. It's irrelevant to everything.
It is quite relevant to an eclipse.
In short, it is the region of totality, where the obstructing object blocks out the entirety of the light source.

But of course you don't care, as it is something you can't explain, so you want to reject that part of reality to pretend your delusional garbage is fine.

They can't.
While the entire planet cannot see the moon at once, around 50% of it can.
And these can be people in drastically different locations.
But yet again, you just avoid the issue.
Why can people separated by massive distances see the same phase of the moon, and why does the phase not change significantly over the course of a day for a single observer?
These are things you can't explain. But as you can't explain the phases, that isn't surprising.

yes I explained the phases above.
No, you didn't.
You provided a pathetic excuse to avoid explaining it.
The garbage you have provided fails to explain anything.

You think you can actually get around using a globe to navigate.
You typically wouldn't use a physical globe.
Instead you either use projections of it, with known distortions, or you use a computer model of a globe.

Btw, have you ever really looked at this symbol?
Yes, it is a north pole, azimuthal equidistant projection.
It means you don't have any country at the centre, or the top.

It is not a FE map.


Now again, care to explain the phases of the moon, in detail, to clearly explain how the crescent shape is produced, along with the other shapes of the phases, and how long they are observed for?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2023, 05:05:33 PM »
Quote
Wrong again. First off, if your half-baked notion were correct, the southern tip of South America must be in the ice wall. We might want to let the folks that live there know. Secondly...

Are you serious?!? That's not a disproof.



Symbology 101 - Logos
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what a logo is, right? It's a design meant to express a company or organization, often for the purposes of expressing an idea. For example, this is a logo for a company. It's known as a flag.



Lebanon is known for its cedars. We know they're a country that prizes logging. It would be extremely odd, therefore, for country with a flag like that to poison and then burn down its trees.



Clearly opposed to Judaism, right?

So what does this UN logo tell us? Well, now we learn to read logos. The olive branch represents peace, and it encircles what is definitely supposed to represent "the world".  So we read this as "to rule the world, under the banner of peace." As a major multinational organization with hand, they clearly do know what the world should look like, but represent it in a manner that is immediately recognizable as a disc instead of a globe.

"It's a simplified globe," you say. No, it's not.


Simplified globe. Note that the North Pole in Universal is depicted at the top of the globe, and South Pole at bottom. As with the UN logo, it is not gonna be a 100% accurate image, but on any flat earth map, North Pole is at the center, and the South Pole is at the rim.  As you can clearly see, the continents are centered at the North Pole, and they show a (rough) ice wall.

Again, let's look at UN's WHO logo.

Ostensibly, you can read this as, "to rule the world, under the banner of peace, through the use of medicine." But the snake also expresses evil in depictions of Eden, so this really means...

"To rule the world through evil, under the banner of peace."

Also note that some depictions of Asclepius depict it climbing a twig.

WHO's logo appears to include an iron rod.
Quote
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

A rod of iron connotates to a ruler that rules using power. That is, these people want to stand in for God as oppressive authoritarians.
 I hope you enjoy your 17th vax booster and your chip tracker.

This is the UN World Health Organization's true aim. And a big part of it is deceiving the public about the nature of the world.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next class, we'll talk about Irony & Satire. Starting perhaps with the irony of this song having no actual ironies.



Followed by Metaphors & Allegories.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 05:25:00 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2023, 05:35:35 PM »
Quote
Wrong again. First off, if your half-baked notion were correct, the southern tip of South America must be in the ice wall. We might want to let the folks that live there know. Secondly...

Are you serious?!? That's not a disproof.



Azimuthal equidistant projection:
"In the polar aspect, the meridians project as straight lines originating at the pole, and angles between them are true. The parallels are shown as equally spaced concentric circular arcs. All graticule line intersections are 90°.
Although the projection can display the entire globe, its practical usage is often limited to a hemisphere. This projection is most commonly used for maps of polar regions and routes of air and sea navigation with appropriate aspect.




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Kami

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2023, 06:03:21 PM »
Quote
Wrong again. First off, if your half-baked notion were correct, the southern tip of South America must be in the ice wall. We might want to let the folks that live there know. Secondly...

Are you serious?!? That's not a disproof.



Symbology 101 - Logos
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what a logo is, right? It's a design meant to express a company or organization, often for the purposes of expressing an idea. For example, this is a logo for a company. It's known as a flag.



Lebanon is known for its cedars. We know they're a country that prizes logging. It would be extremely odd, therefore, for country with a flag like that to poison and then burn down its trees.



Clearly opposed to Judaism, right?

So what does this UN logo tell us? Well, now we learn to read logos. The olive branch represents peace, and it encircles what is definitely supposed to represent "the world".  So we read this as "to rule the world, under the banner of peace." As a major multinational organization with hand, they clearly do know what the world should look like, but represent it in a manner that is immediately recognizable as a disc instead of a globe.

"It's a simplified globe," you say. No, it's not.


Simplified globe. Note that the North Pole in Universal is depicted at the top of the globe, and South Pole at bottom. As with the UN logo, it is not gonna be a 100% accurate image, but on any flat earth map, North Pole is at the center, and the South Pole is at the rim.  As you can clearly see, the continents are centered at the North Pole, and they show a (rough) ice wall.

Again, let's look at UN's WHO logo.

Ostensibly, you can read this as, "to rule the world, under the banner of peace, through the use of medicine." But the snake also expresses evil in depictions of Eden, so this really means...

"To rule the world through evil, under the banner of peace."

Also note that some depictions of Asclepius depict it climbing a twig.

WHO's logo appears to include an iron rod.
Quote
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

A rod of iron connotates to a ruler that rules using power. That is, these people want to stand in for God as oppressive authoritarians.
 I hope you enjoy your 17th vax booster and your chip tracker.

This is the UN World Health Organization's true aim. And a big part of it is deceiving the public about the nature of the world.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next class, we'll talk about Irony & Satire. Starting perhaps with the irony of this song having no actual ironies.



Followed by Metaphors & Allegories.

Bulma, in all seriousness, do you honestly believe that symbolism in logos is a proof of anything?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2023, 07:20:10 PM »
What's your point? Logos are not accurate maps. It could be rotated along a different tilt. It could be upside-down.

We're not using it as our map.

We're demonstrating that UN's real map is not a globe. 
It also isn't a northern-hemisphere or southern-hemisphere overhead map, it's an entire Earth flap disc map.

"Ohhh it has an azimuth that's equidistant." I'm supposed to care about this.

A flat earth widens as it progresses. It is physically impossible to view both hemispheres of a globe. You have to cut the picture in half, because a globe is at its widest in the equator and then the laws of perspective mean that once it narrows, you can't see it anymore.


(Only viewed from the top. As you can see, no southern hemisphere can be seen because the equator is the widest point. In a flat earth, the southern edge is the widest point)

An overhead globe would look (more or less) like the second picture. Any depiction otherwise is a flat earth model. Sorry.

Let us is assume it is equinox.

The sun is equidistant to the equator. This implies the sun is cut in half as it casts light in the equator. That is, if you are standing where in one point you are north of the equator, and another where you are south of the equator...




Does this look stupid to you? It should. But this is what the round Earth model entails. Direct light that crosses both sides of a rounded object means the entirety of the object cannot be seen as it cuts under a wide point to a narrow one.  Yes, even if it is supposedly a much larger object.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 07:23:44 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2023, 09:16:28 PM »
Quote
For reference, Interpol.



Obviously, UN knows something about the world that Interpol does not.

Now, let's get back to the main topic. Yes, we know that the sun and moon are projections. Yes, we can know that normally a full moon is in direct line of the sun.  When I see a full moon in the sky, I can turn around, and get blinded by the sun. When I see a partial moon, it's not lined up.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Gonzo230

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2023, 10:42:21 PM »
What's your point? Logos are not accurate maps. It could be rotated along a different tilt. It could be upside-down.

We're not using it as our map.

We're demonstrating that UN's real map is not a globe. 
It also isn't a northern-hemisphere or southern-hemisphere overhead map, it's an entire Earth flap disc map.

You brought up the UN logo. You’re now arguing against your original point.

You were the one who said it was germane to the discussion, and showed that the UN is in on the conspiracy.

Now you’re saying it’s not.

Just like the other threads, you’re changing your mind and moving on to new subjects whenever you can’t address the questions asked.

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #76 on: March 01, 2023, 11:22:21 PM »
We're demonstrating that UN's real map is not a globe. 

Oh, but it is a map of the globe. You are incorrect. Lambert is your guy, he came up with this projection from a globe...And he wasn't a flat earther...

Azimuthal Equal-Area
The azimuthal equal-area projection was first presented by Johann H. Lambert in 1772.

Azimuthal equal-area projections are similar to azimuthal equidistant projections, except the radial lines get closer together as you get farther from the center point. This preserves area, but distorts distance and shape.




Lambert was the first mathematician to address the general properties of map projections (of a spherical Earth).[7] In particular he was the first to discuss the properties of conformality and equal area preservation and to point out that they were mutually exclusive. (Snyder 1993[8] p77). In 1772, Lambert published[9][10] seven new map projections under the title Anmerkungen und Zusätze zur Entwerfung der Land- und Himmelscharten, (translated as Notes and Comments on the Composition of Terrestrial and Celestial Maps by Waldo Tobler (1972)[11]).


Here from his publication first published in 1772 regarding the globe projections he derived:
Anmerkungen und zusätze zur entwerfung der land- und himmelscharten
by Lambert, Johann Heinrich, 1728-1777


Let us is assume it is equinox.

Ok, let's assume it is the eqiunioox in 2017. Here's an actual real live experiment performed back then. Get it? an experiment...

These are the results of a group project which took place during the September Equinox 2017. 23 participants in 9 different countries conducted a simple scientific experiment similar to that of Eratosthenes over 2000 years ago.

The test is simple. Using the Latitude of each participant (as Longitude will be either 180° or 0°) The sun's elevation angle was measured during Solar Noon. These angles were then placed across both a Flat Plane and a Sphere to see which model the angles correspond to.

Do I have to tell you the results?

Additionally, ALL ANGLES concurred with the angles displayed on:
timeanddate.com
suncalc.org
Stellarium


Each line represents one of the 23 participant's sun elevation angle at solar noon on the equinox, visually shown here as if a flat earth:


Example from a participant, 22 more like it from various latitudes:


When applied to the corresponding latitudes on a sphere, they all line up at 90 degrees which is exactly what we observe. The flat earth angles are not what we observe.




What you need to figure out is why is this which is not observed...The guys in red are looking at the wrong angle...



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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #77 on: March 01, 2023, 11:54:45 PM »
Quote
Wrong again. First off, if your half-baked notion were correct, the southern tip of South America must be in the ice wall. We might want to let the folks that live there know. Secondly...
Are you serious?!? That's not a disproof.
It demonstrates your claim is garbage. It is not a magical FE map showing an ice wall.

You know what a logo is, right? It's a design meant to express a company or organization, often for the purposes of expressing an idea.
That's right.
So the UN logo represents all the countries (or nations) of the world.
They don't care about Antarctica, as it isn't a nation.
They want to show all of them, so they wont show a globe as that will necessitate some nations being hidden by the globe.
They will not use a standard Mercator projection, as that requires a central point to be chosen and give that a preference, where the traditional one uses the United Kingdom.
Instead, they chose an azimuthal equidistant projection, to place the north pole, with no nation in it, at the centre.
This is a more appropriate choice than the south pole as it minimises distortion of the nations that go quite far north.

But none of this helps support your delusional BS.

We're demonstrating that UN's real map is not a globe.
No, you aren't.
It is a projection of the globe.
You are dishonestly spouting pure BS, to promote your delusional fantasy.
All while using this pathetic BS to deflect from the issue at hand, your complete inability to explain the phases of the moon on your flat fantasy.

Why don't you try using that pure BS of yours on any other projection of the globe, such as the Mercator projection. That shows more than 1 half of Earth.

An overhead globe would look (more or less) like the second picture. Any depiction otherwise is a flat earth model. Sorry.
And yet another completely pathetic failure on your part.
This is not an overhead look at a globe.

It is a projection.

And an top down view of the globe would NOT look like you have shown.
45 degrees North would be closer to the equator than the centre.
Specifically around 70% of the way to the equator.

Does this look stupid to you? It should.
Yes, you look incredibly stupid when you spout such delusional BS.
That is nothing like what is expected for the RE model.
That is just more dishonest BS from you to pretend there is a problem.
You want to pretend Earth is a 2 sided disc, not a sphere, and that the sun is magically cut in half so it is above each disc, instead of just far away on a sphere.

Again, light works quite simply, unless something is blocking your view, you can see the sun.

So just what magic is blocking the view to half the sun in this delusional BS of yours?

Yes, we know that the sun and moon are projections.
No, we don't know that.
That is your delusional, baseless assertion, which you cannot justify in any way. The closest is wilful ignorance.

Yes, we can know that normally a full moon is in direct line of the sun.  When I see a full moon in the sky, I can turn around, and get blinded by the sun. When I see a partial moon, it's not lined up.
But can you explain how this "not lined up" causes the particular phases, especially including the shape of the sun, and the direction to the viewer.

This also causes a massive problem for you.
Typically when you see the full moon in the sky, the sun has set. That means that "turn around and get blinded by the sun" has the sun below Earth.


Now again, care to try explaining how the phases of the moon work? With particular emphasis on the shapes of the different phases observed, and the shape of the moon, and the direction to the observer.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2023, 06:43:32 AM »
What's your point? Logos are not accurate maps. It could be rotated along a different tilt. It could be upside-down.

We're not using it as our map.

We're demonstrating that UN's real map is not a globe. 
It also isn't a northern-hemisphere or southern-hemisphere overhead map, it's an entire Earth flap disc map.

You brought up the UN logo. You’re now arguing against your original point.

You were the one who said it was germane to the discussion, and showed that the UN is in on the conspiracy.

Now you’re saying it’s not.

Just like the other threads, you’re changing your mind and moving on to new subjects whenever you can’t address the questions asked.

What? I'm not allowed to be indecisive?

But yes, UN logo is super important, if we're talking about that round earth conspiracy.

But maybe not relevant, if we're talking about crescent moons. :shrug:

(Cut for lemgth, cuz 503 error)

The outermost lines of these azimuthal equal area are maps are by definition NOT equal area. They are wider, no matter how the maker of the map wants to scream they are equal. In order to turn it into a globe, you have to do slight of hand and gradually contract the bottom parts hoping ppl like me don't notice. Yeah uhhh, you've forgotten who you're talking to. I basically notice everything. Especially symbols, and how they relate to each other. I can't even think of how many days, early on in the day or week, I've heard something only for it to kinda echo in coincidental fashion. I tend to notice things and how they relate to each other. To mimic Joe Biden, I may be insane but I'm not unobservant.



The absolute best curve you can get with equal distance is a dome. After that, the outer lines have to contract to form a sphere. You can see this on the animation if you slow it down (or have crappy internet, like I do).
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 06:49:12 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2023, 09:01:46 AM »
What's your point? Logos are not accurate maps. It could be rotated along a different tilt. It could be upside-down.

We're not using it as our map.

We're demonstrating that UN's real map is not a globe. 
It also isn't a northern-hemisphere or southern-hemisphere overhead map, it's an entire Earth flap disc map.

You brought up the UN logo. You’re now arguing against your original point.

You were the one who said it was germane to the discussion, and showed that the UN is in on the conspiracy.

Now you’re saying it’s not.

Just like the other threads, you’re changing your mind and moving on to new subjects whenever you can’t address the questions asked.

What? I'm not allowed to be indecisive?

Try contradictory and hypocritical.

But yes, UN logo is super important, if we're talking about that round earth conspiracy.

Of course everything comes down to "The Conspiracy". Not evidence or facts, just conspiracy. To be expected I guess.

But you're missing the actual facts of the matter that the Lambert azimuthal equal-area north-pole centered projection from a globe predates the existence of the UN by like 150+ years. And was developed by a globe earther. But of course, I wouldn't expect you to realize that let alone acknowledge it.

And don't take my word for it. Just look at Lambert's source material I posted earlier from 1772. No conspiracy required.

(Cut for lemgth, cuz 503 error)

The outermost lines of these azimuthal equal area are maps are by definition NOT equal area. They are wider, no matter how the maker of the map wants to scream they are equal. In order to turn it into a globe, you have to do slight of hand and gradually contract the bottom parts hoping ppl like me don't notice. Yeah uhhh, you've forgotten who you're talking to. I basically notice everything. Especially symbols, and how they relate to each other. I can't even think of how many days, early on in the day or week, I've heard something only for it to kinda echo in coincidental fashion. I tend to notice things and how they relate to each other. To mimic Joe Biden, I may be insane but I'm not unobservant.

Yes, you are quite unobservant, lazy in fact. You see two words, "equal area" and conjure up all sorts of incorrect notions to fit you FE conspiracy narrative without actually understanding anything.
"Equal area" refers to the lines of longitude and the accuracy of the distances. But as you will see, latitudinally speaking, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, accuracy becomes a problem because of the calculated projection of a globe on to a 2d representation. You can see all the calculations in the 1772 source material. But you won't bother because you are lazy.

Lambert azimuthal equal-area



Classifications
azimuthal equal-area

Graticule
Polar aspect
Meridians: Equally spaced straight lines intersecting at the central pole. Angles between them are the true angles.
Parallels: Unequally spaced circles, centered at the pole, which is a point. Spacing of the circles gradually decreases away from the pole. The entire Earth can be shown, but the opposite pole is a bounding circle having a radius 1.41 times that of the equator.

Symmetry
About any meridian.

Equatorial aspect.
Meridians: Central meridian is a straight line. Meridian 90° away is a circle. Other meridians are complex curves, unequally spaced along the equator and intersecting at each pole. Spacing decreases away from the central meridian.

Parallels
Equator is a straight line. Other parallels are complex curves concave toward the nearest pole. They are unequally spaced along the central meridian, and spacing decreases away from the equator. Along the meridian 90° from the central meridian, parallels are equally spaced.

Symmetry
About the central meridian or the equator.

Oblique aspec.

- Meridians: Central meridian is a straight line. Other meridians are complex curves intersecting at each pole shown.
- Parallels: Complex curves unequally spaced along the central meridian; spacing decreases away from the center of projection.
- Symmetry: About the central meridian.

Range:
Entire Earth.

Scale
True only at the center in all directions. Decreases with distance from the center along radii. Increases with distance from the center in a direction perpendicular to radii.

Distortion
Only the center is free from distortion. Distortion is moderate for one hemisphere but becomes extreme for a map of the entire Earth.

Usage
Frequently used in the polar aspect in atlases for maps of polar regions and of Northern and Southern Hemispheres. The equatorial aspect is commonly used for atlas maps of the Eastern and Western Hemispheres. The oblique aspect is used for atlas maps of continents and oceans. The equatorial and oblique aspects are used by the U.S. Geological Survey in cooperation with others for maps of the Circum-Pacific Map Project.
Recommended for equal-area maps of regions approximately circular in extent.


Origin
Presented by Johann Heinrich Lambert (1728–1777) of Alsace in 1772.

Now again, care to try explaining how the phases of the moon work? With particular emphasis on the shapes of the different phases observed, and the shape of the moon, and the direction to the observer.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 09:15:12 AM by Stash »

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #80 on: March 02, 2023, 12:59:55 PM »
But yes, UN logo is super important, if we're talking about that round earth conspiracy.
No, it isn't, as already explained.

But again, this is about your complete inability to explain the phases of the moon.

The outermost lines of these azimuthal equal area are maps are by definition NOT equal area. They are wider
They are wider, but shorter.
If you take a square, which is 1 unit high and 1 unit wide, and you stretch it out to 2 units wide, but also shrink it to 0.5 units high, it will have the same area.

This is pretty basic math that even a complete idiot can understand.

In order to turn it into a globe, you have to do slight of hand and gradually contract the bottom parts hoping ppl like me don't notice.
There is no slight of hand.
They are well known distortions.
The fact that there are countless different projections of Earth, all with different distortions, and no flat map which accurately shows the entire Earth further demonstrates that Earth is round.

Yeah uhhh, you've forgotten who you're talking to. I basically notice everything.
Pure BS.
You notice what you want to, regardless of if it is actually there, and fail to notice things you don't want to, instead remaining wilfully ignorant of them.

Now again, care to get back to the topic the phases of the moon?

We are still where we where quite some time ago.
The RE, HC model provides a coherent explanation which matches what is observed in reality.
It explains why the phases appear the way they do, why they appear for the duration they do, why everyone on Earth looking at the moon sees basically the same phase, and why an observer will observe basically the same phase for the entire duration the moon is visible over the course of a day. It also explains why the moon remains roughly the same size for every observer seeing it at the same time and for a single observer for the time they can see the moon over the course of a day.

Conversely, we have your delusional garbage, where you have provided 3 mutually contradicted excuses, which all fail to describe what actually happens.

Start from the basics, is your moon flat or round?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #81 on: March 02, 2023, 05:17:47 PM »

What? I'm not allowed to be indecisive?

Try contradictory and hypocritical.

I'm not allowed to be hypocritical?!? You're setting the bar too high here!

But yes, UN logo is super important, if we're talking about that round earth conspiracy.

Of course everything comes down to "The Conspiracy". Not evidence or facts, just conspiracy. To be expected I guess.

Why wouldn't it?

But you're missing the actual facts of the matter that the Lambert azimuthal equal-area north-pole centered projection from a globe predates the existence of the UN by like 150+ years. And was developed by a globe earther. But of course, I wouldn't expect you to realize that let alone acknowledge it.

And don't take my word for it. Just look at Lambert's source material I posted earlier from 1772. No conspiracy required.

Ohohohohoho!!! You think no conspiracy is required.



I don't acknowledge it, because it is more of the same. Long before recorded history there are two systems. Lacking a name for either of these, we'll call them the Atlanteans and the Aryans. Basically, a warlike people and a people who built culture. It goes like this (not quite, but we'll get into this). They call them "Martians" but that really doesn't work.

Here's another, similar theme.


Okay, now a table explaining the differences.

You'll notice I didn't say Brahma. For the uninitiated, Brahma is the creator deity, Brahman is the universal God figure in Hinduism. These aren't specific religions. They are a difference in mindsets. Which are you committed to? The "god" who brings nothing but abortion, war, and slavery? Or God, who in the And no, it does not matter about monotheism or whatever. It's the system of not being committed to murder, rape, and child sacrifice. To not being a globalist. To believing that cultures should be nationalistic, and not governed by another country. Faith and freedom. The secular world has nothing to offer, starting with its Earth.  It's just so big and round and out there...


Yes, you are quite unobservant, lazy in fact. You see two words, "equal area" and conjure up all sorts of incorrect notions to fit you FE conspiracy narrative without actually understanding anything.
"Equal area" refers to the lines of longitude and the accuracy of the distances. But as you will see, latitudinally speaking, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, accuracy becomes a problem because of the calculated projection of a globe on to a 2d representation. You can see all the calculations in the 1772 source material. But you won't bother because you are lazy.

Lazy person is calling me lazy while he recites someone from 1772, never understanding or bothering to get that when you say something is equal, they should mean equal. Or they should call it something different.


(Same Area)
Yes, maybe the zones around the circle are equal. But this proves nothing about the area of each circle, and this is important because latitude expands in this model, something which only happens in a flat Earth, or at best a domed Earth. This is basic geometry, and you can see it happen even in the animation. This is a flat Earth model.
 
I draw art, I digital edit, I even animate on occasion. And now I've given you a snazzy table. You couldn't be bothered to look at half the stuff I post, though. I'm apparently the one who is lazy (so delusional). And yes, I goofed with at least one of the circles.

I'll get to your comments (maybe) about the moon later. I obviously couldn't be bothered because I'm lazy.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #82 on: March 02, 2023, 05:42:02 PM »
Yes, you are quite unobservant, lazy in fact. You see two words, "equal area" and conjure up all sorts of incorrect notions to fit you FE conspiracy narrative without actually understanding anything.
"Equal area" refers to the lines of longitude and the accuracy of the distances. But as you will see, latitudinally speaking, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, accuracy becomes a problem because of the calculated projection of a globe on to a 2d representation. You can see all the calculations in the 1772 source material. But you won't bother because you are lazy.

Lazy person is calling me lazy while he recites someone from 1772, never understanding or bothering to get that when you say something is equal, they should mean equal. Or they should call it something different.

He's only one of the most cartographers the world has ever seen. That's all.

You recite someone from 2000 years ago all the time. If we use your "logic" you're about 1800 years lazier than I am.

And you think you're smarter than Lambert because you don't understand what words mean when applied to cartography. My goodness, your ego is so inflated it can't be calculated.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #83 on: March 02, 2023, 06:25:15 PM »
Yes, you are quite unobservant, lazy in fact. You see two words, "equal area" and conjure up all sorts of incorrect notions to fit you FE conspiracy narrative without actually understanding anything.
"Equal area" refers to the lines of longitude and the accuracy of the distances. But as you will see, latitudinally speaking, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, accuracy becomes a problem because of the calculated projection of a globe on to a 2d representation. You can see all the calculations in the 1772 source material. But you won't bother because you are lazy.

Lazy person is calling me lazy while he recites someone from 1772, never understanding or bothering to get that when you say something is equal, they should mean equal. Or they should call it something different.

He's only one of the most cartographers the world has ever seen. That's all.

You recite someone from 2000 years ago all the time. If we use your "logic" you're about 1800 years lazier than I am.

And you think you're smarter than Lambert because you don't understand what words mean when applied to cartography. My goodness, your ego is so inflated it can't be calculated.

Equal
Quote
1: of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another
 a: identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent
 b: like in quality, nature, or status
 c: like for each member of a group, class, or society provide equal employment opportunities
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : impartial
3: free from extremes: such as
a: tranquil in mind or mood
b: not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion
4: capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task

So ummm which definition would you have me believe works in cartography?

The term that I believe you are looking for is equidistant. Meaning the distance is equal.

The Asmodeus (see what I did here) model is equidistant from the center in all directions. But it is not equal.

Equal means same distance around, at 10N as 10S, in addition to east equal to west (which is happening already). You can clearly see it is not.  It looks about 6 to 8 times as wide around, just as a rough guess.  I don't expect perfectly equal (that's a cube), but same latitude for north and south ought to be equal. If you're gonna have a theory, please know what you're talking about!

This is the only overhead model that works for a round earth. If you're gonna do it overhead like that.


Everything else relies of distorting space and making the widest point the bottom, not the center.

That's not how round Earth works. That's not how any of this works.

The point being, cramming all the world into a single plane only works if you're secretly got flat Earth domination plans.
Which is what the UN logo represents. Whether they personally are flat Earthers (in on some secret, and deceiving ppl), or whether they are saying, "we are gonna unite the word (under one government)," the message is the same. And honestly, pretty totalitarian.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 06:51:27 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2023, 01:17:21 AM »
I'm not allowed to be hypocritical
The issue is contradictory.

But I would say the bigger issue is your continued pathetic deflection.

Enough about your delusional conspiracy, explain the moon phases.
Explain how your delusional garbage produces the observed phases, including the duration of each phase, with everyone on Earth seeing the same phase, with the same size moon.
Or admit your FE garbage can't, and the RE is the only viable explanation.

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2023, 01:45:12 AM »
Yes, you are quite unobservant, lazy in fact. You see two words, "equal area" and conjure up all sorts of incorrect notions to fit you FE conspiracy narrative without actually understanding anything.
"Equal area" refers to the lines of longitude and the accuracy of the distances. But as you will see, latitudinally speaking, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, accuracy becomes a problem because of the calculated projection of a globe on to a 2d representation. You can see all the calculations in the 1772 source material. But you won't bother because you are lazy.

Lazy person is calling me lazy while he recites someone from 1772, never understanding or bothering to get that when you say something is equal, they should mean equal. Or they should call it something different.

He's only one of the most cartographers the world has ever seen. That's all.

You recite someone from 2000 years ago all the time. If we use your "logic" you're about 1800 years lazier than I am.

And you think you're smarter than Lambert because you don't understand what words mean when applied to cartography. My goodness, your ego is so inflated it can't be calculated.

Equal
Quote
1: of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another
 a: identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent
 b: like in quality, nature, or status
 c: like for each member of a group, class, or society provide equal employment opportunities
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : impartial
3: free from extremes: such as
a: tranquil in mind or mood
b: not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion
4: capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task

So ummm which definition would you have me believe works in cartography?

Again, you know nothing of cartography and how terms are used and defined. You could look it up, but you're too lazy. And for some unknown reason you think you know better than one of the greatest cartographers in the world. Doesn't that strike you at all as odd? A bit of an overreach on your part? Or are you now a world-renowned cartographer and can do all of the calculations to derive a projection, 7 of them, in fact, like referenced in Lambert's source material?

An equal area projection is a map projection that shows regions that are the same size on the Earth the same size on the map but may distort the shape, angle, and/or scale.
For example, conformal maps show true shapes of small areas but distort size. Equal area maps distort shape and direction but display the true relative sizes of all areas. There are three basic kinds of projections: planar, conical, and cylindrical.


Conversely, one of the other most important cartographers in history, Mercator, used a different projection method...

Mercator map projections show true direction between places the best but are not equal-area or equidistant. This is the projection of choice from Google maps for this reason, despite how the south and north poles distort land size.

Example: Why Greenland is visually the size of Africa in a Mercator projection and in an equal area projection, it is not.

Try and actually learn something before you attempt to rewrite the entire history of world map making. Try and keep that oversized ego in check.

In the mean time, enough about your delusional conspiracy, explain the moon phases.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2023, 01:48:40 AM by Stash »

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #86 on: March 03, 2023, 07:24:16 AM »

He's only one of the most cartographers the world has ever seen. That's all.

Most what cartographers? Most wrong? Okay, yes, I ageee he is one of the most wrong cartographers.

You recite someone from 2000 years ago all the time. If we use your "logic" you're about 1800 years lazier than I am.

Actually, most of my logic is only about 40 years old. It's my take on the Bible. Not the Bible's take. As I've mentioned before, I believe in God as seems real to me, and do not care if I literally tear pages out of the Bible that I don't like.

And you think you're smarter than Lambert because you don't understand what words mean when applied to cartography. My goodness, your ego is so inflated it can't be calculated.

You think because people are from long ago and have credentials, they must be right. I believe in the worth of humans, and when someone calls another a "genius", I scoff. I have no use for ego, inflated or otherwise. But I do know my worth as a human is not based on bowing to credentials or what people think I ought to know based on my status.

Quote
Equal
Quote
1: of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another
 a: identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent
 b: like in quality, nature, or status
 c: like for each member of a group, class, or society provide equal employment opportunities
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : impartial
3: free from extremes: such as
a: tranquil in mind or mood
b: not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion
4: capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task

So ummm which definition would you have me believe works in cartography?

Again, you know nothing of cartography and how terms are used and defined. You could look it up, but you're too lazy. And for some unknown reason you think you know better than one of the greatest cartographers in the world. Doesn't that strike you at all as odd? A bit of an overreach on your part? Or are you now a world-renowned cartographer and can do all of the calculations to derive a projection, 7 of them, in fact, like referenced in Lambert's source material?

An equal area projection is a map projection that shows regions that are the same size on the Earth the same size on the map but may distort the shape, angle, and/or scale.
For example, conformal maps show true shapes of small areas but distort size. Equal area maps distort shape and direction but display the true relative sizes of all areas. There are three basic kinds of projections: planar, conical, and cylindrical.


So you try to pull rank on me, then give mean a blatant redefinition of a word. I've seen you cry foul when I make my own definitions for religious things, because they aren't what you learned in Sunday School. But it's okay for cartographers to do this. Because they're "professional." That is by definition only equal area because boxes are the same size. But it is NOT accurate. This would be like you telling me that you wanted a map of the world, and I'm from Virginia and love my state, so I make Virginia twice the size of Russia. So the area is equal. Congratulations , you made bosxes all align the same way. But that's not how round earth works from a geometric standpoint. Or from a perspective standpoint. Or from any standpoint. That's lazy mapping, and doing it when you're a round earther means you don't understand your own theory well enough to explain it to the public. Map distortion is a big deal. Map distortion means someone sailing a boat rams into land while the map still says there should be water. You made it equal, but if the widest point on Earth is at the equator (RE say it is) then you made a faulty map! Yes, I am more concerned about a cartographer doing his job wrong than the FE/RE debate now.


Conversely, one of the other most important cartographers in history, Mercator, used a different projection method...

Mercator map projections show true direction between places the best but are not equal-area or equidistant. This is the projection of choice from Google maps for this reason, despite how the south and north poles distort land size.

Example: Why Greenland is visually the size of Africa in a Mercator projection and in an equal area projection, it is not.

Try and actually learn something before you attempt to rewrite the entire history of world map making. Try and keep that oversized ego in check.

I know about map distortion. I also know that if you're gonna distort a map, you shouldn't use words like "equal." It makes you a dumbass.


In the mean time, enough about your delusional conspiracy, explain the moon phases.

If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #87 on: March 03, 2023, 10:05:31 AM »
You think because people are from long ago and have credentials, they must be right.

I'm not assuming they are right. It's just that we've had about 300 years of building upon what they created and low and behold, it all seems to check out. You know, world transpo by air and sea of goods and humans, that minor thing.
Everyone uses their maps to get around. So yeah, 3 centuries of accurate utility seems to cause one to lean into their correctness. But yeah, you looking up a word in a dictionary and unraveling all that is pretty much Nobel worthy. You should let the ocean fairing and airline industries know that they are using the wrong maps and that they've just been lucky with their fuel calculations and such given that planes aren't dropping out of the skies and ships aren't floundering in the middle of the oceans by the 1000's every day.

So you try to pull rank on me, then give mean a blatant redefinition of a word. I've seen you cry foul when I make my own definitions for religious things, because they aren't what you learned in Sunday School.


Definitely makes sense that, since you've done the surveying, the calculations, the transformations, the design, and execution of world maps, you would know better than some dumass "experts" like Mercator and Lambert. Of course that makes sense. I mean you looked up the word "equal" in a dictionary and have determined that the entirety of the world's mapping, you know, the maps that everyone on the planet uses to transport humans and goods 24/7/365, are wrong. Yes, that totally makes sense.

I know about map distortion. I also know that if you're gonna distort a map, you shouldn't use words like "equal." It makes you a dumbass.


Yes, those dumbasses that created the foundation of all the maps that everyone on the planet uses today are yes, in fact, straight up idiots. They're obviously wrong as we all know, maps don't work. Mercator's Google, Apple, Yahoo, OpenStreet, Microsoft, Nat Geo, Nautical Charts maps are all wrong, for sure. Lambert's equal area maps, used extensively by the allies in WWII for air and naval activities, especially in the Pacific theater, were all wrong. Everyone knows that.

It's amazing that anyone or anything actually gets anywhere with these mapping abominations.

In the mean time, explain the moon phases. And maybe tell us how far it is from Virginia to Seattle in the air and how you arrived at that figure. Maybe NYC to Paris too. For starts.


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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #88 on: March 03, 2023, 12:03:29 PM »
So you try to pull rank on me, then give mean a blatant redefinition of a word.
No they aren't.
They are showing you are ignoring a word.

They aren't just saying the map is equal.
They are specifically saying equal area.
This matches your definition.

They are not saying equal shapes, or just equal in general.

But you don't like it, because it doesn't match your delusional BS.

Map distortion is a big deal. Map distortion means someone sailing a boat rams into land while the map still says there should be water.
Only if you are a moron that doesn't understand the map.
But yes, map distortion is a big deal and demonstrates Earth is round.

If Earth was flat, there wouldn't be such distortion.

Yes, I am more concerned about a cartographer doing his job wrong than the FE/RE debate now.
Of course you are.
You can't defend your delusional BS so you deflect away from it.

We are still at the point of RE working wonderfully to explain the moon with you unable to show a single fault with it.
Meanwhile, you are yet to provide any viable alternative for a FE.
You have provided 3 contradictory failures, and plenty of delusional BS to pretend there is a problem with a RE, all of which has been exposed as BS.

I know about map distortion.
So you know it means that Earth is round, and that your delusional BS is wrong and that a phrase like equal area is focusing on a particular aspect of the projection and not claiming that every aspect of the map is equal?
And that any objecting to such terminology is a dumbass?

Again, enough of your pathetic deflections.
Explain the moon's phases in your delusional fantasy or admit you can't.

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bulmabriefs144

  • 6254
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  • Roco the Fox
Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2023, 05:53:39 AM »
You think because people are from long ago and have credentials, they must be right.

I'm not assuming they are right. It's just that we've had about 300 years of building upon what they created and low and behold, it all seems to check out. You know, world transpo by air and sea of goods and humans, that minor thing.
Everyone uses their maps to get around. So yeah, 3 centuries of accurate utility seems to cause one to lean into their correctness. But yeah, you looking up a word in a dictionary and unraveling all that is pretty much Nobel worthy. You should let the ocean fairing and airline industries know that they are using the wrong maps and that they've just been lucky with their fuel calculations and such given that planes aren't dropping out of the skies and ships aren't floundering in the middle of the oceans by the 1000's every day.

So you try to pull rank on me, then give mean a blatant redefinition of a word. I've seen you cry foul when I make my own definitions for religious things, because they aren't what you learned in Sunday School.


Definitely makes sense that, since you've done the surveying, the calculations, the transformations, the design, and execution of world maps, you would know better than some dumass "experts" like Mercator and Lambert. Of course that makes sense. I mean you looked up the word "equal" in a dictionary and have determined that the entirety of the world's mapping, you know, the maps that everyone on the planet uses to transport humans and goods 24/7/365, are wrong. Yes, that totally makes sense.

I know about map distortion. I also know that if you're gonna distort a map, you shouldn't use words like "equal." It makes you a dumbass.


Yes, those dumbasses that created the foundation of all the maps that everyone on the planet uses today are yes, in fact, straight up idiots. They're obviously wrong as we all know, maps don't work. Mercator's Google, Apple, Yahoo, OpenStreet, Microsoft, Nat Geo, Nautical Charts maps are all wrong, for sure. Lambert's equal area maps, used extensively by the allies in WWII for air and naval activities, especially in the Pacific theater, were all wrong. Everyone knows that.

It's amazing that anyone or anything actually gets anywhere with these mapping abominations.

In the mean time, explain the moon phases. And maybe tell us how far it is from Virginia to Seattle in the air and how you arrived at that figure. Maybe NYC to Paris too. For starts.


I don't have an "ego" as you suppose. I just don't believe in something you think is all-important. Status and credentials.

I feel like you're one of these people that who if they're at a party, and the waitress overhears you talking with others about legal stuff, and one of you mentions a contract you got someone to sign, but the terms are one-sided. You're bragging about it. "That's an unconscionable contract," she smirks, "the judge will actually throw it out if you ever try to enforce it. You shouldn't be bragging about getting her to sign." You turn to her, "I'm sorry, what's your job? (Waiter) And what college did you go through? (I dropped out) And so what makes you think you know better than us, who are Harvard graduates? (I just remembered, I have dip to bring out) That's what I thought you'd say." The woman as she walks off, mutters, "I dropped out to take care of my kid. I've been studying contract law at the library for years, along with other law as I study to take the bar, after my children were taken by the state." Years later, she represents her children and gets them back. Years later, the contract falls through when someone questions it, exactly as she predicted. You see, being an Harvard graduate means nothing if your degree isn't relevant to the field. Or if you spend your free time in frats instead of doing more studying. And it is no substitute for someone who spends their waking hours off campus constantly studying.

There are plenty of people who don't have college credentials yet earned experience on the job. Or educated themselves at the library. This doesn't like good on paper, but the results of this effort are pretty obvious.

Do I know "better" than someone who has all sorts of cartography awards? Yes, apparently I do. Because they and you apparently didn't have a good geometry teacher. I studied alot of rules and theorems in geometry.
A perfect square has equal area in equal area (length x width) in each box provided they are an equal distance apart and are moving straight across (not on a diagonal or something). A perfect circle has progressive lines (unequal width) and radial length (equal lengths, but the non parallel nature on the lines causes them to widen away from each other). A perfect circle by definition even if all lines are the same degree apart, nevertheless has unequal area. I think I learned geometry in like junior high or something?
What the cartographer intends to say is that the boxes are equal area (length x width) because the boxes that are wider are shorter. I looked at these briefly just now, and I am skeptical that they are the same area though. Say you are reducing width to make equal area to length all across, at some point you're gonna reduce 10 x 10, 5 x 20, 2.5 x 30 (and vice versa as you get to the other end) and oh wait, that's not equal even though you added 10 times for every time you reduced by half. The first two are 100 sq, the third is less than 90 sq. Oops? To say nothing of the square cube law. Turns out that a regular formula for equal area doesn't work. So have to at some point massively distort the map to make equal area.
And you're still contending with two things. (1) The natural tendency of radial lines to widen out at the edge and narrow at the center means that the chart will always struggle to be equal area as both the radial lines and the circle get wider, (2) having a map have equal area is completely meaningless. It's a metric system-level degree of arbitrariness. Why is that? Because it's useless as a map. Every distortion means inaccurate distance between points.

The cartographer made a nice fantasy, but as anything other than a flat Earth map it's not good. And I think most flat Earthers will reject it too, as it is based on distortion of distance. It's a map projection rather than a map, and not a very good one. If you tried to fit this map to a globe, I'm pretty sure it would hang awkwardly. You're better off taping two hemispheric maps because that is totally inaccurate.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 05:55:52 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read