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No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM »
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.

Why is force needed? Does a flashlight need force to run? None beyond flicking the switch. It's energy, not force, that is important to events. Kinetic energy is exchanged for force when I slam myself into a wall. No outside force required. And the volume of water pushes the wheel with or without gravity. The volume moves from an area where water is present to where it is absent. It flows.
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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2022, 08:08:05 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM

Why is force needed?

Yes.  It takes a force for a ball held at rest on an incline to overcome the forces of air resistance and friction once released to roll downhill.




Quote
Does a flashlight need force to run?

It takes electrical potential to motivate the electrons to flow through the filament of the bulb to heat it up to the point photons are made.


External source.
Quote
Batteries are a form of stored electricity and can have different voltages, or levels of electric force.
https://www.education.com/science-fair/article/flashlight/

You
Quote
None beyond flicking the switch. It's energy, not force, that is important to events.

It takes a force to make the electrons flow.  In an AC circuit, a generator spins magnets and exerts magnetic fields on windings that physically pushes/pulls electrons in a closed circuit back and forth.

In a DC circuit, the battery is like a Water tower.

Cited source
Quote
What is Voltage
Voltage is the electrical force that causes free electrons to move from one atom to another. Just as water needs some pressure to force it through a pipe, electrical current needs some force to make it flow. "Volts" is the measure of "electrical pressure" that causes current flow. Voltage is sometimes referred to as the measure of a potential difference between two points along a conductor.

Voltage is typically supplied by either a generator or battery. Generators are analogous to a water pump in a water piping system, and batteries are similar to water towers. Both systems have a potential difference between the source of the power and someplace downstream from the source.

https://www.education.com/science-fair/article/flashlight/



You
 
Quote
Kinetic energy is exchanged for force when I slam myself into a wall.

It still takes a voltage as a force to make electrons flow.

Quote
No outside force required.

To make electrons to flow, it takes a difference in electrical potential.   Just like it takes a difference in gravitational potential to make water flow to be useful to a water wheel.

Quote
And the volume of water pushes the wheel with or without gravity.

Nope.  Gravity is what motivates water to overcome friction to move.


Quote
The volume moves from an area where water is present to where it is absent. It flows.

Water flows because there is a difference in gravitational potential energy like electrons flow because of voltage is a difference in electrical potential energy. 


Jut like you can rub a balloon and build up a static charge in the ballon.  The balloon doesn’t discharge the built up charge until it comes in contact with an object at a different electrical potential. Then zap, the electrons flow.

Like how a sluice gate can be closed and hold water at rest. The water in the gate is at the same gravitational potential and doesn’t flow.  Open the gate, the water is free to flow down the chute to lower gravitational potential. 

« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 08:10:14 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »
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JackBlack

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2022, 12:49:25 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM
Why is force needed?
Because without a force, the wheel stops.
There are various frictional loses which will cause the wheel to stop.
If not force is needed, why does it need water?
Why doesn't the wheel just spin, without anything?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM
Does a flashlight need force to run?
Depends what level of detail you want.
A flashlight uses a batter which has a potential difference which applies an electromotive force to the electrons.

But why not stick to large objects (with mass) moving?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM
It's energy, not force, that is important to events. Kinetic energy is exchanged for force when I slam myself into a wall.
You mean when you slam yourself into a wall the wall applies a force to you to stop you.
But yet again you appeal to a person that moves around by applying a force with their feet.
Why not stick to water, which doesn't do that?

What is making the water move?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM
No outside force required. And the volume of water pushes the wheel with or without gravity. The volume moves from an area where water is present to where it is absent. It flows.
Without gravity the water doesn't move.

It isn't simply water moving from where it is present to where it is absent.
If this was the case, the entire surface of Earth would be coated with a layer of water.
Instead, it is water going from high to low, because gravity is pulling it down.

Without gravity you have no reason for the water to flow.
That is why waterwheels are typically places where there is either a drop or a gradient.
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sceptimatic

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM »
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?

For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
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sceptimatic

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2022, 03:02:01 AM »
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?



For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
How do you calculate it using gravity?
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2022, 03:22:12 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 03:02:01 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?



For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
How do you calculate it using gravity?




How would would these designers/engineers calculate the forces using Denpressure?
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sceptimatic

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2022, 04:07:44 AM »
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:22:12 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 03:02:01 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?



For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
How do you calculate it using gravity?




How would would these designers/engineers calculate the forces using Denpressure?
How are they doing it using gravity?
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2022, 02:39:29 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 04:07:44 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:22:12 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 03:02:01 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?



For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
How do you calculate it using gravity?




How would would these designers/engineers calculate the forces using Denpressure?
How are they doing it using gravity?

It's right there in the equations.

How might engineers use Denpressure instead? Does it have any practical applications?
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM »
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 29, 2022, 08:08:05 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on November 29, 2022, 06:50:14 AM

Why is force needed?

Yes.  It takes a force for a ball held at rest on an incline to overcome the forces of air resistance and friction once released to roll downhill.

You keep saying that. Prove it.
Also, that was a WHY question not a yes/no question.


Quote
Does a flashlight need force to run?

It takes electrical potential to motivate the electrons to flow through the filament of the bulb to heat it up to the point photons are made.

It takes ENERGY. Not force. Electrical potential is not a force. It's potential ENERGY.


Btw, I got a flashlight to roll on a completely flat surface (kitchen counter) just by setting it on its side.

It's a whole lot simpler than gravity. Shape-induced momentum. As you know, regardless of your dismissing momentum as a force (absurd), shape is definitely not one. Scientists have a word for you. Actually two words: angular momentum and static fraction.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 04:29:01 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
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JackBlack

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2022, 11:59:39 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
Btw, I got a flashlight to roll on a completely flat surface (kitchen counter) just by setting it on its side.
Did it roll so its heaviest part was going down?
If so, that is expected.

If not, why did it roll in any particular direction?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
It's a whole lot simpler than gravity. Shape-induced momentum.
So if I take a triangle and release it, it's shape should make it go in some direction.
If I think pick it back up, and change the angle, and release it again, it's shape should make it go in a different direction.

But back in reality, no matter what the orientation is to start, it falls down.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
As you know, regardless of your dismissing momentum as a force (absurd)
Momentum is not a force. There is nothing absurd about rejecting your claims that momentum is a force.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
Scientists have a word for you. Actually two words: angular momentum and static fraction.
That's 5 words.
But that doesn't explain why things fall, it doesn't explain why the water moves to exert a force on the waterwheel.
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack on December 01, 2022, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
Btw, I got a flashlight to roll on a completely flat surface (kitchen counter) just by setting it on its side.
Did it roll so its heaviest part was going down?
If so, that is expected.

If I remember correctly, it was on its side, and this was an older flashlight model that was big, heavy, and with angular sides. And no, it didn't. It rolled off the table If I hadn't caught it. Mass, angular momentum, static friction. No gravitation toward heaviest side, no slope.



If not, why did it roll in any particular direction?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
It's a whole lot simpler than gravity. Shape-induced momentum.
So if I take a triangle and release it, it's shape should make it go in some direction.
If I think pick it back up, and change the angle, and release it again, it's shape should make it go in a different direction.

But back in reality, no matter what the orientation is to start, it falls down.

Does it now. I tipped a Buddhist bell on its side,and got to see momentum equilibrium. The bell rolled forward, it rolled back, then it stopped.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
As you know, regardless of your dismissing momentum as a force (absurd)
Momentum is not a force. There is nothing absurd about rejecting your claims that momentum is a force.

Momentum is a force. It has discernible effect on the motion of objects. Gravity is not a force. There is nothing that "gravity" can down that cannot be explained by downward momentum, and a whole lot of sideways, and even uphill motion that cannot be explained by gravity.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 01, 2022, 04:18:38 AM
Scientists have a word for you. Actually two words: angular momentum and static fraction.
That's 5 words.
But that doesn't explain why things fall, it doesn't explain why the water moves to exert a force on the waterwheel.

It's totally two words.
We explained that. Momentum of water pushing against the wheel makes transfer of momentum into the wheel. The water slows down if the wheel is rusty, but any that flies through regains momentum even on a flat river.
We're moving on and we're here in this topic.
 Objects on a flat surface are moving due to their own momentum. Any object can be lifted and set on another side, and the leftover momentum of lifting and turn it will cause it to move. Momentum is a reactive force. It reacts to slope, to push from other objects, from a sudden strike like a pool ball, or even from setting down or blowing on it with air. Meanwhile I have a staple on a table. No matter how light or heavy it is, there isn't a force weighing it down against the table, slowly crushing the stapler and/or the table. Assuming the room and the house was kept free of wood rot, termites, entropy, and rust, that stapler would still be there sitting on the table 100,000 years from now. Those four would be hard to prevent, but if it was brick or stone and constantly maintained, no "gravity" would ever exert on the table.

The stapler weighs less than the table. No long-term force works to change that. However, if I backhand the stapler off the table it falls because of its own mass, and heads downward because it is sinking, then momentum takes over.

You seem to think that forces are only active not reactive. Sorry but that's not true. If I slide a piece of metal into a field of electromagnetism, it not only acts on the table it is already stuck to, but grab the metal straight from its trajectory and pulls it towards the magnet. This is reactive force. Momentum is a reactive force, that moves in response to other conditions.

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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2022, 11:38:22 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Momentum is a force. It has discernible effect on the motion of objects. Gravity is not a force. There is nothing that "gravity" can down that cannot be explained by downward momentum, and a whole lot of sideways, and even uphill motion that cannot be explained by gravity.

What uphill motion?

What are the calculations engineers should use to replace gravity?
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JackBlack

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2022, 01:04:26 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
If I remember correctly, it was on its side, and this was an older flashlight model that was big, heavy, and with angular sides. And no, it didn't. It rolled off the table If I hadn't caught it. Mass, angular momentum, static friction. No gravitation toward heaviest side, no slope.
If you placed it down stationary, there is no angular momentum.
Static friction works to stop it moving.
So you have no explanation for why it was moving.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Does it now. I tipped a Buddhist bell on its side,and got to see momentum equilibrium. The bell rolled forward, it rolled back, then it stopped.
That is rolling, not falling.
Try picking the bell up, holding it in various orientations, and releasing it.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Momentum is a force.
It doesn't matter how often you repeat this nonsense, it wont magically make it true.
Momentum is not a force. It doesn't even have compatible units.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Gravity is not a force.
Only with the relativistic explanation.
But it certainly acts like a force for most things.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
There is nothing that "gravity" can down that cannot be explained by downward momentum
Except you can't explain the most important part with momentum, why a stationary object begins to move.
That requires gravity (or some force to replace it) to cause the object to start to move.
In fact, momentum explains nothing that gravity explains, and you cannot explain anything that gravity does.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
a whole lot of sideways, and even uphill motion that cannot be explained by gravity.
Gravity is not meant to explain everything. It is not the sole force that acts.
Why pretend it is?
The important part is that this sideways and uphill motion is entirely consistent with gravity.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
It's totally two words.
So basic counting isn't your strong point then?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
We explained that. Momentum of water
No, you didn't.
You start with the water moving.
But this is not always the case.
You can place water into a stationary wheel, holding it stationary so there is no momentum of the water, and release the wheel and it turns.
You also have no explanation for why the water moves in the first place.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
regains momentum even on a flat river
You mean on a fairly flat section of a river.

There is no such thing as a flat river as you have no reason for the water to move.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Momentum is a reactive force.
Momentum is not a force.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
no "gravity" would ever exert on the table.
You rejecting reality wont help you.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
The stapler weighs less than the table.
Entirely irrelavent.
You can have a stapler that is heavier or lighter than the table.
You can have a stapler that is more or less dense than the table.
That doesn't make it move.

What matters is how the weight compares to the strength of the table.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
if I backhand the stapler off the table it falls because of its own mass, and heads downward because it is sinking, then momentum takes over.
It falls because gravity acts on it and it no longer has the normal reaction force from the table to stop that.

You cannot explain why it should go down, or why at a particular rate.
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2022, 05:50:51 AM »
Quote from: Stash on December 02, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Momentum is a force. It has discernible effect on the motion of objects. Gravity is not a force. There is nothing that "gravity" can down that cannot be explained by downward momentum, and a whole lot of sideways, and even uphill motion that cannot be explained by gravity.

What uphill motion?

What are the calculations engineers should use to replace gravity?

If you're designing a Rube Goldberg device sometimes there is uphill motion.

The device will use downhill slopes and momentum to carry it uphill. Or the ROKR wooden marble set I had used volume of other marbles and a lift.

I don't do calculation. I hated math in high school. I hate calculus, and today you can do it yourself. But I do know that it is perfectly possible to build a theme park ride just by schematic and never deal in equations. Because that's how we built the marble set here. I and an eleven-year old child worked without any math at all.



Well, it was a different set, but you get the idea.
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sceptimatic

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2022, 06:14:58 AM »
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:22:12 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 03:02:01 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?



For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
How do you calculate it using gravity?




How would would these designers/engineers calculate the forces using Denpressure?
Just convert it to D.
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JackBlack

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2022, 12:26:09 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 03, 2022, 05:50:51 AM
I don't do calculation. I hated math in high school. I hate calculus

And because of that, you spout all sorts of nonsense, which basic math demonstrates is nonsense.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 03, 2022, 05:50:51 AM
But I do know that it is perfectly possible to build a theme park ride just by schematic and never deal in equations.
Almost any moron can build something without knowing how it works.
The question is how it is designed.

And that requires knowing lots of things.
If you want its momentum to carry it up the next hill, you need to understand how gravity will act to slow it down and result in friction in the system slowing it down, and how the weight of the people will change it.
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2022, 02:18:22 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on December 03, 2022, 06:14:58 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:22:12 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 03:02:01 AM
Quote from: Stash on November 30, 2022, 03:00:18 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on November 27, 2022, 04:54:17 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

No fantasy gravity is ever required.

Again…

Then where is the force coming from to drive the grinding stones via the water wheel.  Why does the process work in this example because the weight in the water wheel buckets with gravity is supplying the force to overcome the friction of the grindstones.

What force is driving the grindstones to overcome friction to grind grain. Gravity pulling down on the water drives the system. 

In a normal fuel / motor driven grinder.  Energy from gas/diesel would be used to drive an engine to overcome the friction of the system and drive the grindstones.  Bigger the grindstones with more surface area, more friction to overcome, more energy required to grind, thus more fuel.

In the water mill grind stone example, where is the energy coming from to drive the water mill to overcome the forces of friction to turn the grindstones.
As I explained earlier, molecules break up and are squeezed up by being less dense than the atmosphere it was within at sea/ground level.
As those molecules get squeezed up they eventually sit atop another set of atmospheric layers in the stack and are basically pushed against as more and more enter by the below denser squeeze.
Eventually, those build up and overcome the dense resistance below which you see as rain or flowing rivers.
Low to high and high back to low in an almost consistent feed depending on the energy applied or basically, the internal sun doing the work.

How do I calculate downward force using Denpressure?



For example, roller coaster designers/engineers use Newtonian gravity equations when calculating the forces riders will go through. What equations should they use instead with Denpressure in order to achieve the same safe yet thrilling results?
How do you calculate it using gravity?




How would would these designers/engineers calculate the forces using Denpressure?
Just convert it to D.

Convert what to D? Go ahead, just convert something to D and show us what you come up with.

You realize the answer would be different and in it being so, the force would be a very different result. And that may lead to an engineer mis-calculating and applying too much force on a passenger that may make them pass out, or worse. It's the reason why they make such calculations.

So yeah, show us your results of just swapping out something in your calculation. Let's see how we can actually apply Denpressure in real world scenarios. If we can't then your theory is useless. Give it a go. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2022, 02:26:45 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 03, 2022, 05:50:51 AM
Quote from: Stash on December 02, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 02, 2022, 06:34:20 AM
Momentum is a force. It has discernible effect on the motion of objects. Gravity is not a force. There is nothing that "gravity" can down that cannot be explained by downward momentum, and a whole lot of sideways, and even uphill motion that cannot be explained by gravity.

What uphill motion?

What are the calculations engineers should use to replace gravity?

I don't do calculation.

Pretty much says it all. Yet you decide that other people that do calculations aren't doing it right. That is rich.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 03, 2022, 05:50:51 AM
I hated math in high school. I hate calculus, and today you can do it yourself. But I do know that it is perfectly possible to build a theme park ride just by schematic and never deal in equations. Because that's how we built the marble set here. I and an eleven-year old child worked without any math at all.

Ummm, you assembled a mini theme-park ride that was designed by other people. Did you come up with the design of the mini amusement park marble ride? You realize there's a tremendous difference between designing/engineering something versus assembling something, right?

According to you, we should never need engineers, architects, designers of any sort because you assembled a marble toy. Wow, there isn't a more daft notion than that.
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM »
So would you admit that there's a difference between following a recipe, assembling a mini park ride via schematic, and using formulas that you haven't actually tested but assume are true?

Because you're kidding yourself.

Look, I cook with no recipe. I probably could have assembled a mini park-ride without believing or accepting in gravity. And the formula of gravity does jack shit for your ability to make a slope.

A hill in order for a basic ride (e.g. go uphill then downhill) is a simple parabola.

x2=-4ay is an uphill parabola. Nowhere was there a gravitational constant. This simple parabola? Basically that's Rebel Yell in Busch Gardens or something. Pulled uphill by a chain thinking on the track. Of course, the whiplash would really hurt if we're a straight down fall, so halfway through that, we do a smaller inverted parabola, followed by a smaller upright parabola than the first, gradually slowing momentum until the ride has a very gentle hill, then curves around (also technically a parabola) and loops back to start. Never once dealt with gravity, only with reduction of momentum.
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2022, 12:06:34 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
So would you admit that there's a difference between following a recipe, assembling a mini park ride via schematic, and using formulas that you haven't actually tested but assume are true?

The formulas are used to calculate the forces and tensions and speeds associated with the design of a roller coaster. Those are then transferred to the necessary elements, materials, etc., required for building the ride to be thrilling and safe. They, in turn, are converted into plans, or schematics, if you will, that are used by the builders to construct said ride according to the aforementioned specifications. Pretty much how anything that people ride or dwell in is made to be. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Look, I cook with no recipe. I probably could have assembled a mini park-ride without believing or accepting in gravity.

You can bake a cake without a recipe and therefore, you think you could design, engineer, and build this?
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #81 on: December 05, 2022, 12:22:29 AM »
Quote from: Stash on December 05, 2022, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
So would you admit that there's a difference between following a recipe, assembling a mini park ride via schematic, and using formulas that you haven't actually tested but assume are true?

The formulas are used to calculate the forces and tensions and speeds associated with the design of a roller coaster. Those are then transferred to the necessary elements, materials, etc., required for building the ride to be thrilling and safe. They, in turn, are converted into plans, or schematics, if you will, that are used by the builders to construct said ride according to the aforementioned specifications. Pretty much how anything that people ride or dwell in is made to be. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Look, I cook with no recipe. I probably could have assembled a mini park-ride without believing or accepting in gravity.

You can bake a cake without a recipe and therefore, you think you could design, engineer, and build this?


Nice try. Still nope. The gravity you speak of is invalidated the moment the ride travels upside-down or sideways. Other forces, and the equation compensates for weight well above the maximum.

That is, say the weight is 1200 maximum. They probably don't full all 10 seats, and don't let someone grossly overweight ride because it throws off the balance. The ride can actually handle 1500 lb, but the equation s they've done day it can't. So they put about 750 lb since they actually have no idea, since all weight equations are done wrong.
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #82 on: December 05, 2022, 12:35:07 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 12:22:29 AM
Quote from: Stash on December 05, 2022, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
So would you admit that there's a difference between following a recipe, assembling a mini park ride via schematic, and using formulas that you haven't actually tested but assume are true?

The formulas are used to calculate the forces and tensions and speeds associated with the design of a roller coaster. Those are then transferred to the necessary elements, materials, etc., required for building the ride to be thrilling and safe. They, in turn, are converted into plans, or schematics, if you will, that are used by the builders to construct said ride according to the aforementioned specifications. Pretty much how anything that people ride or dwell in is made to be. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Look, I cook with no recipe. I probably could have assembled a mini park-ride without believing or accepting in gravity.

You can bake a cake without a recipe and therefore, you think you could design, engineer, and build this?


Nice try. Still nope. The gravity you speak of is invalidated the moment the ride travels upside-down or sideways. Other forces, and the equation compensates for weight well above the maximum.

That's not what the engineers say when designing/engineering rides like the above. How about using your parabolas to calculate the forces, speeds, torques exerted by the ride in the image?

So long and short, I'm going to go with the engineers calculations which include gravity, just like the accelerometer inside your kindle, rather than your "notions" when admittedly, your skillset in these matters stops around cake baking and shoveling shit.
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #83 on: December 05, 2022, 01:07:56 AM »
The engineers can say anything they want. They write formulas.

I've done computer coding in C++.

There are often multiple ways to get the same results because ultimately what you are doing is making variables and shuffling numbers different ways. Same when I was game programming in rpgmaker. I saw ppl using loads of switches/vars, while I figured out how to use names to make a reusable variable.
When you design something, you get to establish the tools.  The engineers that did it that way thought they wouldn't be allowed to design a ride without calculating for gravity. And this right there is the problem, monopoly on "truth" to the point where naysayers get blacklisted.

 But again, how does a ride cart move upside down and sideways? What, you think there is some equal and opposite force keeping ppl from falling out of their seats? Because I think it's just firmly fastened to the rail, and an older ride would fly off at that point.

Some people use multiple functions. Some people use goto loops. Still others use structs.
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Stash

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #84 on: December 05, 2022, 01:14:37 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 01:07:56 AM
The engineers can say anything they want. They write formulas.

I've done computer coding in C++.

There are often multiple ways to get the same results because ultimately what you are doing is making variables and shuffling numbers different ways. Same when I was game programming in rpgmaker. I saw ppl using loads of switches/vars, while I figured out how to use names to make a reusable variable.
When you design something, you get to establish the tools.  The engineers that did it that way thought they wouldn't be allowed to design a ride without calculating for gravity. And this right there is the problem, monopoly on "truth" to the point where naysayers get blacklisted.

There's no monopoly on "truth" in roller coaster design or accelerometers in kindles. If there is a simpler way of doing something, corporations or institutions would exploit it. That's called progress and how we get to have skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, roller coasters, accelerometers and GPS like things. If it's faster and better and cheaper, it shall be done.

The fact that your parabolas are not faster, better or cheaper has nothing to do with truth monopolies. If you can design a better/cheaper/faster accelerometer for your kindle, have at it. In the mean time, gravity wins.
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JackBlack

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #85 on: December 05, 2022, 02:00:46 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Look, I cook with no recipe. I probably could have assembled a mini park-ride without believing or accepting in gravity. And the formula of gravity does jack shit for your ability to make a slope.
Again, almost any idiot can assemble it. But that isn't the same as designing it.
Likewise, any idiot with lots of money or resources, can cobble together something and test it and make changes and so on, wasting loads of money and possibly killing people in the process; but that still isn't really designing.

An engineer, using gravity as well as many other factors, can design a roller coaster and use those equations to determine if it will work and if it will be safe, under a variety of conditions; without wasting loads of money building something that wont work or risking people's lives.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
A hill in order for a basic ride (e.g. go uphill then downhill) is a simple parabola.
Typically Bezier curves would be used.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
we do a smaller inverted parabola
But how much smaller?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Never once dealt with gravity, only with reduction of momentum.
That reduction of momentum relies upon gravity to understand the friction that is involved and the weight of the ride and how quickly it accelerates down a hill and decelerates going up a hill.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 12:22:29 AM
The gravity you speak of is invalidated the moment the ride travels upside-down or sideways.
Why?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 12:22:29 AM
The ride can actually handle 1500 lb, but the equation s they've done day it can't.
Why? So your delusional fantasy can be correct?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 01:07:56 AM
But again, how does a ride cart move upside down and sideways? What, you think there is some equal and opposite force keeping ppl from falling out of their seats?
Typically such rides would have restraints, to prevent people from falling out.
However, there is also the possibility of understand what gravity is doing trying to take them out and ensuring that that is less than what is required to follow the ride.
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2022, 07:23:26 AM »
Quote from: Stash on December 05, 2022, 01:14:37 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 01:07:56 AM
The engineers can say anything they want. They write formulas.

I've done computer coding in C++.

There are often multiple ways to get the same results because ultimately what you are doing is making variables and shuffling numbers different ways. Same when I was game programming in rpgmaker. I saw ppl using loads of switches/vars, while I figured out how to use names to make a reusable variable.
When you design something, you get to establish the tools.  The engineers that did it that way thought they wouldn't be allowed to design a ride without calculating for gravity. And this right there is the problem, monopoly on "truth" to the point where naysayers get blacklisted.

There's no monopoly on "truth" in roller coaster design or accelerometers in kindles. If there is a simpler way of doing something, corporations or institutions would exploit it. That's called progress and how we get to have skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, roller coasters, accelerometers and GPS like things. If it's faster and better and cheaper, it shall be done.

The fact that your parabolas are not faster, better or cheaper has nothing to do with truth monopolies. If you can design a better/cheaper/faster accelerometer for your kindle, have at it. In the mean time, gravity wins.

That's funny, I didn't hear a trophy being handed out to gravity. Not congratulations. Not any declaration that gravity is now "settled science" except maybe centuries before I was born. And even if that were the case, it's kinda funny how science works.

https://www.cracked.com/article_20789_6-shocking-studies-that-prove-science-totally-broken.html

Quote
5. Many Scientists Still Don't Understand Math

It was at that point he realized his new colleagues were basically awful at math. So he conducted an experiment to find out how widespread the issue was. Eriksson picked two research papers at random and sent them out to a bunch of scientists. In half of the papers he randomly added an equation that had nothing to do with the study whatsoever, and in context was utter nonsense.

Eriksson asked the recipients to judge the quality of the research. The mathematicians and physicists were basically unimpressed, but in every other field the inclusion of the equation got the papers a higher ranking, even though it was pointless bullshit -- it just looked more impressive with the complicated math in there. More than 60 percent of the medical researchers, the people trying to save all of our lives, ranked the junk papers as better on the grounds of, "It must be right -- look at all this awesome math shit he's got in there."

 So all the people who tell me that we need these formulas with gravity in them, so but a social scientist figured out that it's all just buckshot fakery.
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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2022, 09:54:12 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 07:23:26 AM
Quote from: Stash on December 05, 2022, 01:14:37 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 01:07:56 AM
The engineers can say anything they want. They write formulas.

I've done computer coding in C++.

There are often multiple ways to get the same results because ultimately what you are doing is making variables and shuffling numbers different ways. Same when I was game programming in rpgmaker. I saw ppl using loads of switches/vars, while I figured out how to use names to make a reusable variable.
When you design something, you get to establish the tools.  The engineers that did it that way thought they wouldn't be allowed to design a ride without calculating for gravity. And this right there is the problem, monopoly on "truth" to the point where naysayers get blacklisted.

There's no monopoly on "truth" in roller coaster design or accelerometers in kindles. If there is a simpler way of doing something, corporations or institutions would exploit it. That's called progress and how we get to have skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, roller coasters, accelerometers and GPS like things. If it's faster and better and cheaper, it shall be done.

The fact that your parabolas are not faster, better or cheaper has nothing to do with truth monopolies. If you can design a better/cheaper/faster accelerometer for your kindle, have at it. In the mean time, gravity wins.

That's funny, I didn't hear a trophy being handed out to gravity. Not congratulations. Not any declaration that gravity is now "settled science" except maybe centuries before I was born. And even if that were the case, it's kinda funny how science works.

https://www.cracked.com/article_20789_6-shocking-studies-that-prove-science-totally-broken.html

Quote
5. Many Scientists Still Don't Understand Math

It was at that point he realized his new colleagues were basically awful at math. So he conducted an experiment to find out how widespread the issue was. Eriksson picked two research papers at random and sent them out to a bunch of scientists. In half of the papers he randomly added an equation that had nothing to do with the study whatsoever, and in context was utter nonsense.

Eriksson asked the recipients to judge the quality of the research. The mathematicians and physicists were basically unimpressed, but in every other field the inclusion of the equation got the papers a higher ranking, even though it was pointless bullshit -- it just looked more impressive with the complicated math in there. More than 60 percent of the medical researchers, the people trying to save all of our lives, ranked the junk papers as better on the grounds of, "It must be right -- look at all this awesome math shit he's got in there."

 So all the people who tell me that we need these formulas with gravity in them, so but a social scientist figured out that it's all just buckshot fakery.

Clearly your reading comprehension sucks.
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JackBlack

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #88 on: December 05, 2022, 12:02:41 PM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 07:23:26 AM
And even if that were the case, it's kinda funny how science works.
And your source for how science works is a cracked article?
Where they can just spout whatever BS they want, without any actual references?


How about we get back to the topic at hand.
Why does the water move to make the waterwheel move?
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bulmabriefs144

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Re: No gravity, what applies a force to a waterwheel mill?
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2022, 06:07:40 AM »
Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on December 05, 2022, 09:54:12 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 07:23:26 AM
Quote from: Stash on December 05, 2022, 01:14:37 AM
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on December 05, 2022, 01:07:56 AM
The engineers can say anything they want. They write formulas.

I've done computer coding in C++.

There are often multiple ways to get the same results because ultimately what you are doing is making variables and shuffling numbers different ways. Same when I was game programming in rpgmaker. I saw ppl using loads of switches/vars, while I figured out how to use names to make a reusable variable.
When you design something, you get to establish the tools.  The engineers that did it that way thought they wouldn't be allowed to design a ride without calculating for gravity. And this right there is the problem, monopoly on "truth" to the point where naysayers get blacklisted.

There's no monopoly on "truth" in roller coaster design or accelerometers in kindles. If there is a simpler way of doing something, corporations or institutions would exploit it. That's called progress and how we get to have skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, roller coasters, accelerometers and GPS like things. If it's faster and better and cheaper, it shall be done.

The fact that your parabolas are not faster, better or cheaper has nothing to do with truth monopolies. If you can design a better/cheaper/faster accelerometer for your kindle, have at it. In the mean time, gravity wins.

That's funny, I didn't hear a trophy being handed out to gravity. Not congratulations. Not any declaration that gravity is now "settled science" except maybe centuries before I was born. And even if that were the case, it's kinda funny how science works.

https://www.cracked.com/article_20789_6-shocking-studies-that-prove-science-totally-broken.html

Quote
5. Many Scientists Still Don't Understand Math

It was at that point he realized his new colleagues were basically awful at math. So he conducted an experiment to find out how widespread the issue was. Eriksson picked two research papers at random and sent them out to a bunch of scientists. In half of the papers he randomly added an equation that had nothing to do with the study whatsoever, and in context was utter nonsense.

Eriksson asked the recipients to judge the quality of the research. The mathematicians and physicists were basically unimpressed, but in every other field the inclusion of the equation got the papers a higher ranking, even though it was pointless bullshit -- it just looked more impressive with the complicated math in there. More than 60 percent of the medical researchers, the people trying to save all of our lives, ranked the junk papers as better on the grounds of, "It must be right -- look at all this awesome math shit he's got in there."

 So all the people who tell me that we need these formulas with gravity in them, so but a social scientist figured out that it's all just buckshot fakery.

Clearly your reading comprehension sucks.

No, I have autocorrect which turns bullshit into buckshot.

But more importantly, I have seen scientists hide behind math as a refuge, even though science formula has the same Greek symbols, but they don't mean the same thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,_science,_and_engineering
Hmmmmm, so if I make a formula and it has symbols that can mean anything from a particle to a thermodynamic beta to a brain wave, how does anyone know what my formula means? The math is irrelevant in science as they simply don't have enough characters so the same formula as a math equation means something entirely different in biology and in physics.

How can you write a theory of everything when not one symbol much less one formula transfers cleanly from math to biology to physics?
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If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurf-ρobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read
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