War

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on January 25, 2023, 04:28:43 AM

100ish tanks is not a winning number, guaranteed to just keep things ticking over, give a moral boost maybe to the Ukrainians, who now have to learn how to use them and be able to get the fuel and spare parts and maybe get to use them later this year, give the Russians reason for conscripting more unfortunate nobodies to add to the grind and the body count, and “the war machine keeps turning.”

2battalions of tanks is formidable
They support exposed tropps and can level a city.

However
What is russias air power?
Nato supplied rockets traffic jammed a bunch of russiasn in convoy.

Formidable if you are facing them, on a frontline that is about 1,300km long they will at best bolster a pocket area or help in a push, 100ish over that area is not a tide turning number, and remember once they are revealed the Russians will do their level best to destroy them using cruise and other missiles and every artillery piece they can muster, as a picture of a destroyed American tank would be a victory, a captured one worth its weight in gold.

And just how good will they be, none of the ones they are thinking of sending will be equipped with the top of the range engines, armour or electronics for the reasons above, still better than a badly maintained T90 driven by a conscript but remember this, the last time German tanks came this way they were far superior than the Russian counterpart, and still lost to larger numbers of hastily made “crap” tanks driven by farmers.

It kinda looks we are just trying to unload some old inventory. The M1's we're sending over, 30-ish of them I think, are upgraded but first introduced some 40 years ago. And we apparently have 2300 of the hulks just sitting in cold storage. They are considered "no longer operational" and are not currently used.

Just in case anyone was wondering how Russian "active measures" work in practice...   It's working like a charm in many places around the world, including Sweden.

The Koran burning protest that infuriated Turkey and derailed Sweden’s NATO application was organised by Russia.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/01/24/quran-burning-in-sweden-enrages-turkey-threatens-nato-membership-path.html

https://twitter.com/BadBalticTakes/status/1618479142370168835

Just in case anyone was wondering how Russian "active measures" work in practice...   It's working like a charm in many places around the world, including Sweden.

The Koran burning protest that infuriated Turkey and derailed Sweden’s NATO application was organised by Russia.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/01/24/quran-burning-in-sweden-enrages-turkey-threatens-nato-membership-path.html

https://twitter.com/BadBalticTakes/status/1618479142370168835

Clever. Still I wonder if Ergodan is just using this as an excuse to play games. Geographically I'm not sure it matters much though if Finland is in.

It kinda looks we are just trying to unload some old inventory. The M1's we're sending over, 30-ish of them I think, are upgraded but first introduced some 40 years ago. And we apparently have 2300 of the hulks just sitting in cold storage. They are considered "no longer operational" and are not currently used.

I've read we were building new ones for them. Which doesn't make sense to me. Maybe that's changed.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 25, 2023, 05:27:20 AM

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on January 25, 2023, 04:28:43 AM

100ish tanks is not a winning number, guaranteed to just keep things ticking over, give a moral boost maybe to the Ukrainians, who now have to learn how to use them and be able to get the fuel and spare parts and maybe get to use them later this year, give the Russians reason for conscripting more unfortunate nobodies to add to the grind and the body count, and “the war machine keeps turning.”

2battalions of tanks is formidable
They support exposed tropps and can level a city.

However
What is russias air power?
Nato supplied rockets traffic jammed a bunch of russiasn in convoy.

Formidable if you are facing them, on a frontline that is about 1,300km long they will at best bolster a pocket area or help in a push, 100ish over that area is not a tide turning number, and remember once they are revealed the Russians will do their level best to destroy them using cruise and other missiles and every artillery piece they can muster, as a picture of a destroyed American tank would be a victory, a captured one worth its weight in gold.

And just how good will they be, none of the ones they are thinking of sending will be equipped with the top of the range engines, armour or electronics for the reasons above, still better than a badly maintained T90 driven by a conscript but remember this, the last time German tanks came this way they were far superior than the Russian counterpart, and still lost to larger numbers of hastily made “crap” tanks driven by farmers.

I don't know. I thought the same thing before we sent 12 himars there. It would have seemed completely insane to assume that 12 trucks with a rocket launcher bolted to the bed would have changed the course of the war yet here we are.

I wouldn't worry about tanks getting destroyed. That's sort of their job. It would be odd if any of these tanks came back to us. Also I doubt they would target tanks when they still have so many military playgrounds and military grade schools to destroy.

Big picture though, this is just the first step. We aren't going to do such a provocative move without following up. That would just escalate things without any benefit.

Quote from: Stash on January 26, 2023, 02:36:23 AM

It kinda looks we are just trying to unload some old inventory. The M1's we're sending over, 30-ish of them I think, are upgraded but first introduced some 40 years ago. And we apparently have 2300 of the hulks just sitting in cold storage. They are considered "no longer operational" and are not currently used.

I've read we were building new ones for them. Which doesn't make sense to me. Maybe that's changed.

I'll have to look into that. My initial guess is that "building new ones" = de-mothballing the surplus we have.

Edit: Ok, found this, I was wrong:

"The U.S. is planning to send Kyiv the Abrams main battle tank in its more advanced M1A2 configuration, rather than the older A1 version that the military has in storage, according to three people with knowledge of the deliberations."

The M1A2 are definitely the newer ones. And apparently 31 tanks (1 battalion) is worth about $400 million.

Oil and grain are good future debts to call on.

Good tazpayer funded investment where big corp to recieve benefits

Quote from: Crouton on January 26, 2023, 08:32:48 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 26, 2023, 02:36:23 AM

It kinda looks we are just trying to unload some old inventory. The M1's we're sending over, 30-ish of them I think, are upgraded but first introduced some 40 years ago. And we apparently have 2300 of the hulks just sitting in cold storage. They are considered "no longer operational" and are not currently used.

I've read we were building new ones for them. Which doesn't make sense to me. Maybe that's changed.

I'll have to look into that. My initial guess is that "building new ones" = de-mothballing the surplus we have.

Edit: Ok, found this, I was wrong:

"The U.S. is planning to send Kyiv the Abrams main battle tank in its more advanced M1A2 configuration, rather than the older A1 version that the military has in storage, according to three people with knowledge of the deliberations."

The M1A2 are definitely the newer ones. And apparently 31 tanks (1 battalion) is worth about $400 million.

So another piece of the puzzle.  Apparently the Abrams has some super secret armor that we're not allowed to export to other countries, even our allies.  The ones were giving them has some other kind of armor.  Maybe that factored into building new ones.

Some random places are reporting Major General Leonid Leontievich Polyakov died. As far as I can tell that would be like a one star General in the US.

Quote from: Stash on January 26, 2023, 01:58:19 PM

Quote from: Crouton on January 26, 2023, 08:32:48 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 26, 2023, 02:36:23 AM

It kinda looks we are just trying to unload some old inventory. The M1's we're sending over, 30-ish of them I think, are upgraded but first introduced some 40 years ago. And we apparently have 2300 of the hulks just sitting in cold storage. They are considered "no longer operational" and are not currently used.

I've read we were building new ones for them. Which doesn't make sense to me. Maybe that's changed.

I'll have to look into that. My initial guess is that "building new ones" = de-mothballing the surplus we have.

Edit: Ok, found this, I was wrong:

"The U.S. is planning to send Kyiv the Abrams main battle tank in its more advanced M1A2 configuration, rather than the older A1 version that the military has in storage, according to three people with knowledge of the deliberations."

The M1A2 are definitely the newer ones. And apparently 31 tanks (1 battalion) is worth about $400 million.

So another piece of the puzzle.  Apparently the Abrams has some super secret armor that we're not allowed to export to other countries, even our allies.  The ones were giving them has some other kind of armor.  Maybe that factored into building new ones.

Yeah, I just read some stuff on that. From Politico:

"But the 31 tanks slated for Ukraine will not include the secret armor mix that makes the Army’s newest version so lethal, said the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive conversations.

But federal policy forbids the export of Abrams with classified armor packages used by the U.S. military, which includes depleted uranium, according to a fourth person with knowledge of the policy. The U.S. strips the vehicles of this secret armor “recipe” before selling them to other countries. There are other armor packages the U.S. can provide for foreign military sales customers."

Edit: This is the armor package we aren't sending:

"M1A2 has multi-layered armor similar to British "Chobhem". Hull and turret frontal armor is increased with precipitant uranium plates. Further armor defense was increased by wider usage of precipitant uranium and anti-cumulative screens placed on turret roof as well."

Yes, like I said above, and the gas turbine engines won't be fitted, the Germans and the UK are removing or not fitting the latest electronic countermeasures and the newest targeting systems, deemed to be too sensitive, so not our cutting edge (Slava Ukraine), and not in numbers that can deliver overall victory just enough to shop window them for the Saudis and any other regime who needs to crush some minority, no doubt they will have their own cleverly authentic Instagram site showing them blasting some hapless drafted prisoners into the hereafter and some grannies waving, oh and don’t forget to forward it to the Chinese.

Do I sound cynical? I bet I sound cynical.

I expect the Germans are acutely aware that Kursk is just across the border from Sumy and Prokhorovka a 2hr drive north of Kharkiv.

Lots of reports of drone strikes across Iran,  seems to be targetting things like ammunition storage.

I guess everyone will be pointing the finger at Israel,  which just by a strange coincidence is conducting joint exercises with the US...   Juniper Oak

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1619477502388469763

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3276477/us-israel-begin-juniper-oak-exercise/

Why not let iran self implode?

Send in some cia black ops to arm the youth

Why not let iran self implode?

Send in some cia black ops to arm the youth

I would kind of like us to stick to one war at a time.  I don't know a whole lot about Iran but I don't think we have the power to topple that government so easily.  Even if we did I don't think the outcome would be much of an improvement.

Lots of reports of drone strikes across Iran,  seems to be targetting things like ammunition storage.

I guess everyone will be pointing the finger at Israel,  which just by a strange coincidence is conducting joint exercises with the US...   Juniper Oak

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1619477502388469763

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3276477/us-israel-begin-juniper-oak-exercise/

Evidence seems to implicate Israel.  Peace is obviously the highest priority.  I think it's important to remember that Israel is a nuclear power and that Iran needs to give Netanyahu an offramp. 

I think the UN needs to pressure Iran into maybe holding a referendum to surrender part of their lands to Israel for their legitimate security concerns.

Quote from: Rayzor on January 28, 2023, 08:39:36 PM

Lots of reports of drone strikes across Iran,  seems to be targetting things like ammunition storage.

I guess everyone will be pointing the finger at Israel,  which just by a strange coincidence is conducting joint exercises with the US...   Juniper Oak

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1619477502388469763

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3276477/us-israel-begin-juniper-oak-exercise/

Evidence seems to implicate Israel.  Peace is obviously the highest priority.  I think it's important to remember that Israel is a nuclear power and that Iran needs to give Netanyahu an offramp. 

I think the UN needs to pressure Iran into maybe holding a referendum to surrender part of their lands to Israel for their legitimate security concerns.

Why not make the whole world Israel? Then everyone can be 'One nation under God'

So another piece of the puzzle.  Apparently the Abrams has some super secret armor that we're not allowed to export to other countries, even our allies.  The ones were giving them has some other kind of armor.  Maybe that factored into building new ones.

I would think that building new tanks would be highly unlikely.  The US Marine Corps is in the process of reorganizing and that includes getting rid of all of their tanks.  I wonder if Ukraine might be getting some of those.

Quote from: Crouton on January 29, 2023, 12:55:18 PM

Quote from: Rayzor on January 28, 2023, 08:39:36 PM

Lots of reports of drone strikes across Iran,  seems to be targetting things like ammunition storage.

I guess everyone will be pointing the finger at Israel,  which just by a strange coincidence is conducting joint exercises with the US...   Juniper Oak

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1619477502388469763

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3276477/us-israel-begin-juniper-oak-exercise/

Evidence seems to implicate Israel.  Peace is obviously the highest priority.  I think it's important to remember that Israel is a nuclear power and that Iran needs to give Netanyahu an offramp. 

I think the UN needs to pressure Iran into maybe holding a referendum to surrender part of their lands to Israel for their legitimate security concerns.

Why not make the whole world Israel? Then everyone can be 'One nation under God'

America has been doing that for nearly a century, and before that it was the British Empire.

 Haven't you heard about British Israelism?

Not that I'm complaining, I'm just saying.

Kadyrovite's are not very popular in Russia.

"Major scandal in Russia.

The TV presenter Olga Zenkova from NTV was sent to occupied Melitopol to record a propaganda piece.

While visiting a restaurant, Kadyrov’s nephew Hasan Ibrahimov and men from his unit walked up to her, beat up her camera man and then raped her."

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1620168262377181186

Well... I guess they did succeed in making a propaganda piece. Just maybe not the one that they wanted.

I'm considering learning at least spoken Russian. It looks like they made a Russian version of The Office. I've heard some non English speakers learned English by watching Friends.

Wise you going to get off Putin’s dick now that you see your country (supposedly) in rubble? Can you see through the eye’s of a Ukrainian looking at their destroyed appartement?

Not exactly an accurate comparison. The earthquakes would also have to be raping everything that moved in Turkey, including other earthquakes.

Not exactly an accurate comparison. The earthquakes would also have to be raping everything that moved in Turkey, including other earthquakes.

True.

I’m not trying to take anything away from what’s happening in Turkey. I just wonder if wise can wake up.

Edit: I just read his thread. He won’t learn anything. The earthquake was the US’s fault.

Hmm... Interesting. Going to have to keep my eye on this one. D1 is probably exploding with jizz at this very moment.

Hmm... Interesting. Going to have to keep my eye on this one. D1 is probably exploding with jizz at this very moment.

Judging by the comments in that vid the source seems a shit sort. Nothing to really have any faith in. Seems like it's one guys take on things without any hard evidence to back it up. If it really was such a big thing, pretty sure a lot more people could corroborate it and it would be more 'mainstream'. A lot of countries and governments don't give a shit to toe the US propaganda line. Lots of freelance 'journalists' would love this for the clicks too but even they have standards this story doesn't meet

Maybe America did do it..... Who cares at this point. But no one has been able to put the jigsaw together to say 'yep, it was definately them'

Here's the substack article by Seymour Hersh, How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

"Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning."

The article is really detailed and whoever the "source" is would have to be someone really high-up. Q?

Hersh is apparently a pretty accomplished investigative reporter going all the way back to Nam. Not without controversy though...From wiki:

His stories, often alleging vast and shadowy conspiracies, have made startling — and often internally inconsistent — accusations, based on little or no proof beyond a handful of anonymous 'officials'."[6]

He has one anonymous source for all of this. The detail has me waffling back and forth between truth and fiction. It seems unusually detailed, seemingly someone would of been a fly on the wall in the oval office. Maybe Kamala is the source...Or Hunter...Or Jill...

It's not enough to convince me.  But it's too much to be ignored.  I don't know much about this reporter but he's apparently respected.  He isn't some Jimmy Dore or Russel Brand.

I judge it kind of like a sexual harassment allegation.  If there's something to it then usually more people come forward.  I'm just keeping an open mind to it all.

It's not enough to convince me.  But it's too much to be ignored.  I don't know much about this reporter but he's apparently respected.  He isn't some Jimmy Dore or Russel Brand.

I judge it kind of like a sexual harassment allegation.  If there's something to it then usually more people come forward.  I'm just keeping an open mind to it all.

beau says when there's too much info in an attempt to appear credible, it's too much info to be realistic.


(iddferent rumour, but how does it compare?)

It's not enough to convince me.  But it's too much to be ignored.  I don't know much about this reporter but he's apparently respected.  He isn't some Jimmy Dore or Russel Brand.

I judge it kind of like a sexual harassment allegation.  If there's something to it then usually more people come forward.  I'm just keeping an open mind to it all.

I agree. Definitely keeping an open mind. What's weird is that I'm not seeing anything on MSM about it. Also, the story is already 5 days old from what limited reporting I have seen - Which is a lifetime in news cycles. Snopes has some assessment on it from 2 days ago...

Claim That US Blew up Nord Stream Pipelines Relies on Anonymous Source

The source is first described as "a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning" and a second time as "the source with direct knowledge of the process," indicating these were the same person. All other references to a source refer, in the singular, to "the" source. This source, for example, is responsible for the claim that Biden created a task force to look into options to destroy the Nord Stream 2 pipeline...

The source, evidently a legal expert, is also behind the claim that Biden's actions at a news conference created some sort of loophole that allowed a covert sabotage mission to go ahead without notifying high-ranking congressional leaders...

This same source, evidently, is knowledgeable about internal CIA, State Department, and deep sea diver politics in addition to the specific deliberations held by a secret interagency panel. He is, in Hersh's reporting, the sole basis for claims of Norway's knowledge of and involvement in the operation.

The Bottom Line
This story, when deconstructed, is merely a pile of purported second-hand information allegedly collected by someone connected in some unknown way to deliberations of a highly secret, multi-agency task force. Such a story falls prey to the same criticisms of other more recent work published by Hersh, which has relied on similarly questionable anonymous sources.

If the U.S. did conspire to destroy the Nord Stream pipeline, Hersh's reporting has not proved that case. Hersh has, instead, made a very successful blog post that essentially transcribes a compelling story someone unknown to the general public told him.

Hersch was asked by the Russian news agency TASS about the identity of his source. He told them that, "It's a person, who, it seems, knows a lot about what's going on."