For the discussion of the improvement of the forums

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Space Cowgirl

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For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« on: January 22, 2020, 04:49:27 PM »
Hello FE, let's talk about how we can make the forum better.

Some ideas have been tossed around over the years, but we never really get very far. Any major changes we agree on will need the final okay from John Davis. Hopefully he'll have the time to get involved in the discussion too.

So far it has been suggested that the site move away from debating FE. There has been a request for technical moderation. There has been a suggestion to re-purpose the Information Repository.


So, let's begin.

I personally would rather re-purpose Flat Earth Q&A. Change the description a little bit, but keep the strict moderation. No one really uses it for Q&A, anyway.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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wise

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 10:05:28 PM »
I suggest a completely radical change based on three new forums.

The first one is that there is a forum belonging to some global members, just like this forum we believers have. its name should be "global believers" and it should be open only to a small number of members. If a truly equal and fair environment is desired, we should allow it. In this way, they can propaganda their own views away from trolls and disturbing effects. In this way, they will not need to use general forums as propaganda area. At the first stage, I think it is sufficient to have the authority to post content in this forum, namely rabinoz, jackblack and macarios. they will also be encouraged to produce things themselves, just like we did when they were devoted to the discussion. The current global moderators should have authority in this forum. because everyone have a right to get governed by their own opinion.

My second proposal is to create a forum that is accessible to believers and members who have access to the globalist forum. The forum will be called "common space" and the authority to post content on this forum will consist of members from the rank "global believer, believer and scientist". This will create an environment free from information pollution, unnecessary interference from spam and trolls. In this forum, there will be a globalist and a believer moderator. however, these moderators will not be able to sanction members. it will only have "subject locking" authority.

The third forum to be created is the "welcome" forum, members with registration history older than a week cannot log in. however, believers, admins, and moderators can post new content to this forum. The purpose of this forum is to meet newcomers free from the influence of experienced globalists and to meet believers and management, and to answer their short content questions instantly. this forum can be exploited by former members but this is a problem that can be easily dealt with. the officials in this forum can also be general moderators.

I hope that these views will be applied.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:15:55 PM by wise »


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John Davis

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 09:55:14 AM »
This seems like the best way to go about this. Good idea Tom. I'm interested to see what comes of it.
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wise

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 10:44:03 AM »
Old age can cause hallucination. Jerry sees Tom around.


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bullhorn

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2020, 06:08:37 AM »
The only thing I would ask is that my Study be restricted access as it is now. I do not want it becoming an open forum where anyone can post.

Please allow access to be restricted to only the current members who can post.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2020, 07:23:36 AM »
I agree, the flat Earth Believers forum should stay FEB only.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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bullhorn

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2020, 10:01:11 AM »
I would agree with that.

Iím open to whatever changes to the forum work with you guys.

Itís been the same since 2005. Iím cool with a change to the name.

Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2020, 03:47:38 AM »
Hello FE, let's talk about how we can make the forum better.

Some ideas have been tossed around over the years, but we never really get very far. Any major changes we agree on will need the final okay from John Davis. Hopefully he'll have the time to get involved in the discussion too.

So far it has been suggested that the site move away from debating FE. There has been a request for technical moderation. There has been a suggestion to re-purpose the Information Repository.


So, let's begin.

I personally would rather re-purpose Flat Earth Q&A. Change the description a little bit, but keep the strict moderation. No one really uses it for Q&A, anyway.
People do use it for Q&A.

I have answered many questions asked of flat earthers here.

What is objectionable is non-flat earthers writing posts containing objections to the answers offered or trying to debate the answer(s) offered.

Non-flat earthers should only be able to write questions here and only flat earthers should be able to answer those questions.

No debate.

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wise

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2020, 08:17:17 AM »
This is another kind of my second offer. Surely using Q&A is possible. Your suggestion can be useful if non flat earthers  would have an only right of create new thread. It prevent them to answer the questions and they only can open new thread. And according to forum rules it can be only a question. Thread waits till a believer reply because others can not reply. And it prevents debating.


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Space Cowgirl

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2020, 08:49:53 AM »
No debate in Q&A is already a rule, I move posts out of Q&A all the time for breaking that rule. It also doesn't help that sometimes FE answers questions in a way intended to provoke an argument. I've moved more than one of totallackey's posts out of there for insults.

I like the idea of Q&A. People should be able to ask questions about FET, especially if they're trying to debate and want to know what they are debating. Hardly anyone comes here with that intention, though. They want to insult us, and make fun of us, and sometimes they're just mad we exist at all.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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bullhorn

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2020, 09:32:53 AM »
I See no need for someone to be able to post here if they do not have access.

There are many places to post, posting here is not really necessary.

Over the years countless people have tried to post here and complain they do not have access.

Having my study segregated is why I have posted for so long. I canít see in continuing if others have access to it

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2020, 09:40:58 AM »
I think there has been some misunderstanding, we're not talking about opening this forum to everyone. We've been talking about changing a different forum, like Q&A or the repository.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2020, 09:42:36 AM »
Wait, are you talking about the last three comments on your study post? I just saw that, I will remove them.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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bullhorn

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2020, 09:44:23 AM »
Itís ok,

I donít mind if they do because they are members of the forum. I mean new posters from posting ones who donít have access to the board.

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bullhorn

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2020, 09:51:33 AM »
Please leave them up. I am happy for everyone to post to it. I encourage it.


My original concern was that this forum was going to be opened up to general access.

I welcome everyone who is in this forum to post in it. I just didnít want it to be combined with the other forums where everyone can post.

Thanks for letting me know what is happening.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2020, 09:55:51 AM »
Oh, okay. Still, they shouldn't spam your thread.

I have allowed two people into this forum. One is totallackey, because he has consistently argued for FE and asked to join. The other is Shifter because some of us think he may have something to contribute to this discussion. If there are problems I will fix them.  I think we all agree that this forum should stay restricted access.


ALSO, sorry, I moved those posts before you made your last post. lol
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Shifter

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2020, 05:10:30 AM »
This is another kind of my second offer. Surely using Q&A is possible. Your suggestion can be useful if non flat earthers  would have an only right of create new thread. It prevent them to answer the questions and they only can open new thread. And according to forum rules it can be only a question. Thread waits till a believer reply because others can not reply. And it prevents debating.

This is a good idea that would prevent a lot of unwanted debate in the threads. It also gives Flat Earthers an air of authority in that only they can answer the questions.

I also think Flat Earth General and Flat Earth Debate need better distinction. There really shouldn't be any reason to argue in Flat Earth General. The arguments should be limited to the debate section. For example if someone wanted to talk about a dome or the sun&moon specific to the flat earth and puts the thread in General, then the content of that thread should be limited to discussing that topic - no debating or trolling.

If they open it up in the Debate section then it can be open to debate. Currently there seems little difference between the General and Debate forums

In short, no arguing or debating in the General section. Just dump those posts to the Angry Ranting Garbage Dump and warn serial offenders
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boydster

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2020, 11:36:53 AM »
This is another kind of my second offer. Surely using Q&A is possible. Your suggestion can be useful if non flat earthers  would have an only right of create new thread. It prevent them to answer the questions and they only can open new thread. And according to forum rules it can be only a question. Thread waits till a believer reply because others can not reply. And it prevents debating.

This is a good idea that would prevent a lot of unwanted debate in the threads. It also gives Flat Earthers an air of authority in that only they can answer the questions.
In and of itself, this is a remarkably easy thing to do, as itís built right into the permissions management within the forum software. However, I can see some potential fallout here, in that if a question is answered vaguely, or perhaps a question is asked in a manner that isnít as clear as it should have been, there is no opportunity to address either of those situations, and neither of those situations rise to the level of ďdebateĒ or anything else that would be considered poor etiquette in the Q&A board. So the question becomes, how do we best implement the idea in such a way that it allows clarifications to be made without also allowing a Q&A post to devolve into a debate (or worse).

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Shifter

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2020, 11:50:57 AM »
This is another kind of my second offer. Surely using Q&A is possible. Your suggestion can be useful if non flat earthers  would have an only right of create new thread. It prevent them to answer the questions and they only can open new thread. And according to forum rules it can be only a question. Thread waits till a believer reply because others can not reply. And it prevents debating.

This is a good idea that would prevent a lot of unwanted debate in the threads. It also gives Flat Earthers an air of authority in that only they can answer the questions.
In and of itself, this is a remarkably easy thing to do, as itís built right into the permissions management within the forum software. However, I can see some potential fallout here, in that if a question is answered vaguely, or perhaps a question is asked in a manner that isnít as clear as it should have been, there is no opportunity to address either of those situations, and neither of those situations rise to the level of ďdebateĒ or anything else that would be considered poor etiquette in the Q&A board. So the question becomes, how do we best implement the idea in such a way that it allows clarifications to be made without also allowing a Q&A post to devolve into a debate (or worse).

Could the OP have rights to post more in their own thread?
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wise

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2020, 12:19:31 PM »
This is another kind of my second offer. Surely using Q&A is possible. Your suggestion can be useful if non flat earthers  would have an only right of create new thread. It prevent them to answer the questions and they only can open new thread. And according to forum rules it can be only a question. Thread waits till a believer reply because others can not reply. And it prevents debating.

This is a good idea that would prevent a lot of unwanted debate in the threads. It also gives Flat Earthers an air of authority in that only they can answer the questions.
In and of itself, this is a remarkably easy thing to do, as itís built right into the permissions management within the forum software. However, I can see some potential fallout here, in that if a question is answered vaguely, or perhaps a question is asked in a manner that isnít as clear as it should have been, there is no opportunity to address either of those situations, and neither of those situations rise to the level of ďdebateĒ or anything else that would be considered poor etiquette in the Q&A board. So the question becomes, how do we best implement the idea in such a way that it allows clarifications to be made without also allowing a Q&A post to devolve into a debate (or worse).

Could the OP have rights to post more in their own thread?

A good point. When moderators notice a rule error, they send a final message to the topic and lock or move the topic. their decision is final and there is no need to do anything else. In case of objection, the subject can be opened with the "report" option. here the person who opens the subject has the right to ask only one question. if it is not satisfied with the answer, it will use the "report" option again, in which case the moderator will write the subject on behalf of that member and state the objection, and the believer can write again.

Alternatively the Op'er may have two times right of sending.

Alternatively, the person who started the topic can start a new topic.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 12:21:16 PM by wise »


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boydster

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2020, 12:23:56 PM »
This is another kind of my second offer. Surely using Q&A is possible. Your suggestion can be useful if non flat earthers  would have an only right of create new thread. It prevent them to answer the questions and they only can open new thread. And according to forum rules it can be only a question. Thread waits till a believer reply because others can not reply. And it prevents debating.

This is a good idea that would prevent a lot of unwanted debate in the threads. It also gives Flat Earthers an air of authority in that only they can answer the questions.
In and of itself, this is a remarkably easy thing to do, as itís built right into the permissions management within the forum software. However, I can see some potential fallout here, in that if a question is answered vaguely, or perhaps a question is asked in a manner that isnít as clear as it should have been, there is no opportunity to address either of those situations, and neither of those situations rise to the level of ďdebateĒ or anything else that would be considered poor etiquette in the Q&A board. So the question becomes, how do we best implement the idea in such a way that it allows clarifications to be made without also allowing a Q&A post to devolve into a debate (or worse).

Could the OP have rights to post more in their own thread?

Sure, totally and easily doable (speaking in terms of capability here, which is unrelated to whether or not it will actually be done, I hope I didnít give that impression, I donít have the right to speak for what administration decides).

Weíre still relying on the OP not to misbehave, but that is almost certainly less risk than depending on the entire user base not to misbehave.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 12:26:13 PM by boydster »

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Shifter

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2020, 09:16:47 PM »
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=84670.msg2232789#msg2232789

This is what I'm talking about

Someone posts their theory for discussion in Flat Earth General.

Rab comes along and says 'no it's not!'

This is debating and against the spirit of the general forum. If the OP wants his theory up for a debate, he would put it in debate

He's put it in general. Rab if he wants to contribute should  continue the 'thought experiment'. If he can't, he should not post at all.

This is how the 2 forums are essentially identical.
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boydster

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2020, 04:03:47 AM »
Hang on. The post he replied to, that was immediately preceding the one you linked to, very much invited debate. I'll paste it below. While there is merit to the idea that debates should be held in the board that is named for them, the cited example isn't a rab transgression so much as a cultural (to this community) one.

As to the folks that have been doing research of the sun for such a long time, again, say hi to them.
Tell them that there is phew astronomy 8). Feel free to debunk phew astronomy in this forum..
.... if they're really interested.. :o

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Shifter

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2020, 04:12:24 AM »
I get it but that's been the status quo of that forum for so long it's how it operates.

The moderation is hard in Q&A and that's why people respect it.

I am sure flat earthers don't mind inviting round earthers to partipate in thought experiments or discussions so the 'general' forum could be used for that

In the debate section, let them go nuts
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John Davis

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 08:56:12 AM »
We used to heavily moderate debates in the incorrect forum. It was a lot of work, and ended up cluttering up lots of threads with folks whining and arguing about it leading us to enforce new rules to put shit in S&C.

Any solution needs to be feasible from a moderation stand point; do our moderators read and moderate every thread? Will this be too great an additional load for them?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2020, 04:08:14 PM »
I know that people like Sandokhan are more than willing to moderate the debate forum. If there is a debate (and I'm still not sure that there should even be one, at least not a 24/7 debate against no one), there should probably be some structure to it. I wouldn't mind seeing what Sandokhan thinks about the debate.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 04:10:02 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2020, 04:10:16 PM »
Edit: double post

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sandokhan

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2020, 10:39:45 PM »
I know that people like Sandokhan are more than willing to moderate the debate forum. If there is a debate (and I'm still not sure that there should even be one, at least not a 24/7 debate against no one), there should probably be some structure to it. I wouldn't mind seeing what Sandokhan thinks about the debate.


Has Jackblack just continued to spread toxicity into every thread possible? His behavior is unacceptable

Quote
I agree they do get away with it and I do find that really odd.
It seems far too contrived to be normal everyday activity by those two.
However....and bear in mind I could be wrong: Is it possible that these two are a kind of autistic or on that spectrum?
Is it possible that one has ADHD on top of it, like Jackblack?

The reason why I say this is the sheer ferocity in his replies, in terms of speed and aggression and actually taking part quotes that have zero meaning when dissected, then answering them as if it's carefully selected to be argued but also confuse the audience.

The situation in the upper forums has become unbearable. Me and Tom used to have mod status. Unless you give me back my mod status, here is my pledge: I will not post another single message, ever, in the upper forums. I might post in the FEB section, now and then, but that would be it. Mark my words.

The RE can do whatever they want, while we have to plead with the other mods, who are delighted to see us ask for favors. No more. Not anymore.

The stats numbers have been diminishing in size for the past two years (as compared to 2014-2017). The stats for 2014-2017 are down when we compare them to 2008-2013.

There is no one to rein in jb and r who have been allowed to roam free in the upper forums with a definite agenda to bring this forum to a standstill.

It is very simple to enforce the rules:

NO MORE FISKING

jb and r will be allowed to use a single quote for each message; no more multiple quoting/fisking, a day of ban for each additional quote, double the days of the ban if they repeat the offense.

NO MORE INSULTS

Immediate bans for anyone who makes use of insults in the upper forums.

NO MORE TROLLING

This is most important: both jb and r have no arguments to resort to in a real debate, so they use trolling to get away and dodge the issues being discussed. No more of this kind of behaviour. As soon as they use trolling (any kind of argument), they will receive a well-deserved ban. If they don't like it, they can take their business somewhere else.


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wise

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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2020, 01:29:47 AM »
it is not possible to disagree with it. Although we have different opinions, I think everyone agrees the problem on jb and r. As an alternative, a new forum with the name "globalist theory" can be created and only this jb and r can be posted. they can do trolling and fisting there as much as they wish.


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Re: For the discussion of the improvement of the forums
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2020, 04:29:33 AM »
Q&A - I found this:

"**Update 2014.07.17**
Flat Earth Q&A's format is shifting a bit. To limit the number of debates arising in our Q&A forum, questions will only be answered by flat-earthers or those providing genuine flat-earth responses. Asking questions is still open for anyone, but starting debates, using questions to start debates, or posting disingenuously will be considered low content / off-topic posting and will be treated as such."

This is not being enforced.

And I suggest modifying it further.

Only FE adherents should be allowed to answer any question posed.

No one else should be allowed to answer the questions posed.