HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #780 on: September 01, 2019, 01:00:47 PM »
@Bom Tishop, thanks for your reply...nice to hear you are still with us...so folks, stay tuned...

NASA is desperate...They released new video : "Astronaut walks in Space with a GoPro for 5 hours" ... 5 hours.... During these 5 long GoPro hours not a single satellite (allegedly, there are 4 987 satellites whizzing around above our heads every single day) has been caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera, not a single airplane exhaust trail has entered in the lens of our actor's GoPro camera...
Why should "single satellite" be "caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera"? Space is big!
The volume of space in the LEO altitudes is about 3,77,211,000,000 cubic kilometres and about 800 satellites big enough to hope to see.
You precious GoPro might see a satellite 3 km away (as a one pixel dot) if said satellite happened to pass through the field of view.
Try to work out the odds of seeing one satellite! Winning Lotto might offer better odds!

Little people, like you, can't seem to understand big things - they scare you or something!

Little people like Rabinoz and Keating can't handle the truth 1 :

Second,  Keating  extracts  my  quote  from  Volume  3  of  the  Galileo  Was  Wrong  series,  which  deals  with  the  history  between  Galileo  and  the  Church, not the science. But in Volumes 1 and 2, in which I deal with the science,  I  not  only  quote  and  present  the  whole  passage,  I  thoroughly  present to the reader the other two explanations for the Michelson-Morley experiment  that  Mr.  Keating  claims  I  purposely  left  out  of  the  quote  in  Volume 3. In fact, in the beginning of Volume 3, I tell the reader that since he has now finished Volumes 1 and 2, he is now ready to read Volume 3. Third,  the  reader  knows  why  I  truncated  the  quote,  since  I  want  to  emphasize to him something that I know he has never heard in his lifetime, namely,  that  instead  of  Einstein’s  Special  Relativity  theory,  an  equally  plausible solution to the Michelson-Morley experiment is that the Earth is not  moving  in  space,  but  that  this  solution  was  dismissed  out  of  hand  because  it  was  “unthinkable”  for  modern  man.  In  other  words,  it  wasn’t  science that led Einstein to Special Relativity, it was his philosophy!  Hence,  what  Mr.  Keating  regards  as  “the  correct  interpretation”  was  arrived  at  by  eliminating  the  other  equally  plausible  alternative  –  a  non-moving  Earth  –  from  the  scientific  possibilities  before  the  examination  ever got started! Some science. The simple fact is, Keating didn’t like the fact that a biography of Einstein told the reader, not once, but twice, that a motionless Earth was a legitimate answer to Michelson-Morley, so instead of  admitting  that  to  his  reader,  he  tries  to  make  me  look  devious  in  presenting  it  to  the  world.  I’m  beginning  to  think  that  Keating  has,  shall  we say, reached the end of his rope.

The  only  one  “misleading  the  reader”  here  is  Karl  Keating. In  reality,  the  only  reason  the  two  quotes  were  put  together  was  to  show  the  reader  the  two  instances  in  Clark’s  book  where  even  hean  obvious  admirer  of  Einsteinadmits  that  one  of  Einstein’s  choices  in  explaining  the  Michelson-Morley  experiment  was  to  posit  that  the  Earth  wasn’t  moving  in  space  but  that  Einstein  refused  to  consider  it.  Whereas  Keating  tries  to  eliminate  a  motionless  Earth  as  a  possibility,  Clark mentions it at least twice, and possibly a third time when he says on page 267: “As Einstein wrestled with the cosmological implications of the General Theory, the first of these alternatives, the earth-centered universe of the Middle Ages, was effectively ruled out.”

Little people like Rabinoz and Keating can't handle the truth 2 :

ISS camera "caught" satellite in space (for the first time in history) :


Little people like Rabinoz and Keating can't handle the truth 3 :
Little man Rabinoz never even tried to explain this obvious NASA FAKERY (blatant inconsistency) :
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING AS FAKE AS THIS - VIDEO :
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7g9vm0

Little people like Rabinoz and Keating can't handle the truth 4 :

PROJECT LIBERTY - IT'S ALL BULLSHIT, I TELL YA :
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gbiik

Since we've moved on to other topics, safe to say that it's been shown that rockets can fly in space.

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #781 on: September 01, 2019, 02:19:01 PM »
Little people like Rabinoz and Keating can't handle the truth 1 :
Nope, it is still you. You still seem to need to run away from a very simple question which shows the truth and continue to spam a bunch of nonsense with nothing at all to do with the thread.

You blatantly lying about alternatives to MM has nothing to do with if rockets work in space.

So are you going to admit that rockets do work in space?
If not, answer my question to clearly explain at what step of the process of very simple physics, physics break down to magically make it so rockets don't work?

What force is acting on the gas that is exiting the rocket to make it go in a particular direction and what is the other body involved in this interaction?

Will you claim pure magic with gas magically being held inside an open container exposed to a vacuum?
Will you claim pure magic of an object being accelerated without a force?
Will you claim pure magic of an object having a force applied with the corresponding reactionary force?
Or will you be rational for once and accept that rockets will work in a vacuum?

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #782 on: September 01, 2019, 03:23:16 PM »
Little people like Rabinoz and Keating can't handle the truth 1 :
Nope, it is still you. You still seem to need to run away from a very simple question which shows the truth and continue to spam a bunch of nonsense with nothing at all to do with the thread.

You blatantly lying about alternatives to MM has nothing to do with if rockets work in space.

So are you going to admit that rockets do work in space?
If not, answer my question to clearly explain at what step of the process of very simple physics, physics break down to magically make it so rockets don't work?

What force is acting on the gas that is exiting the rocket to make it go in a particular direction and what is the other body involved in this interaction?

Will you claim pure magic with gas magically being held inside an open container exposed to a vacuum?
Will you claim pure magic of an object being accelerated without a force?
Will you claim pure magic of an object having a force applied with the corresponding reactionary force?
Or will you be rational for once and accept that rockets will work in a vacuum?

I'm pretty sure why he keeps avoiding these basic questions is because he can't answer them. Hence splatting page length text in regard to entirely unrelated topics. It's painfully obvious that these intentional distractions in irrelevance are there to mask the defeat of his original premise.
Ultimately, it has been shown over and over again that rockets can work in a vacuum, thus his original argument is rendered moot.

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #783 on: September 01, 2019, 03:40:31 PM »
@Bom Tishop, thanks for your reply...nice to hear you are still with us...so folks, stay tuned...

NASA is desperate...They released new video : "Astronaut walks in Space with a GoPro for 5 hours" ... 5 hours.... During these 5 long GoPro hours not a single satellite (allegedly, there are 4 987 satellites whizzing around above our heads every single day) has been caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera...
I'm sure that it showed at least one satellite; the ISS. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #784 on: September 01, 2019, 05:19:06 PM »
NASA is desperate...They released new video : "Astronaut walks in Space with a GoPro for 5 hours" ... 5 hours.... During these 5 long GoPro hours not a single satellite (allegedly, there are 4 987 satellites whizzing around above our heads every single day) has been caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera...

Amazing isn't it? They also say that there is so much 'space junk' it is a hazard for orbiting satellites and rockets launching yet, in their video 'evidence' there is not a thing. No satellites, no junk and a questionable CGI pic of the Earth.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #785 on: September 01, 2019, 05:29:06 PM »
NASA is desperate...They released new video : "Astronaut walks in Space with a GoPro for 5 hours" ... 5 hours.... During these 5 long GoPro hours not a single satellite (allegedly, there are 4 987 satellites whizzing around above our heads every single day) has been caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera...

Amazing isn't it? They also say that there is so much 'space junk' it is a hazard for orbiting satellites and rockets launching yet, in their video 'evidence' there is not a thing. No satellites, no junk and a questionable CGI pic of the Earth.

In the photo below, the dotted red line in the cyan circle is the ISS. The cyan circle is LEO. The yellow circle is MEO. The green dashed line is GPS satellite orbit, and the outer black dashed line is geosynchronous orbit.


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Wolvaccine

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #786 on: September 01, 2019, 05:42:38 PM »
NASA is desperate...They released new video : "Astronaut walks in Space with a GoPro for 5 hours" ... 5 hours.... During these 5 long GoPro hours not a single satellite (allegedly, there are 4 987 satellites whizzing around above our heads every single day) has been caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera...

Amazing isn't it? They also say that there is so much 'space junk' it is a hazard for orbiting satellites and rockets launching yet, in their video 'evidence' there is not a thing. No satellites, no junk and a questionable CGI pic of the Earth.

In the photo below, the dotted red line in the cyan circle is the ISS. The cyan circle is LEO. The yellow circle is MEO. The green dashed line is GPS satellite orbit, and the outer black dashed line is geosynchronous orbit.



So? NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away. If that is correct we should easily be able to see all these satellites and junk that is in our own 'backyard'

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #787 on: September 01, 2019, 05:55:06 PM »
So? NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away. If that is correct we should easily be able to see all these satellites and junk that is in our own 'backyard'
Really! Please explain why?
Space is huge ::)! When did you last see a car sized object moving at over 27,000 km/hour ;D?
Individual satellites, including the ISS and geostationary satellites can be seen though the latter need a telescope.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #788 on: September 01, 2019, 06:09:50 PM »
So? NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away. If that is correct we should easily be able to see all these satellites and junk that is in our own 'backyard'
Really! Please explain why?
Space is huge ::)! When did you last see a car sized object moving at over 27,000 km/hour ;D?
Individual satellites, including the ISS and geostationary satellites can be seen though the latter need a telescope.



This is somehow called 'proof' to you.


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #789 on: September 01, 2019, 06:13:21 PM »
NASA is desperate...They released new video : "Astronaut walks in Space with a GoPro for 5 hours" ... 5 hours.... During these 5 long GoPro hours not a single satellite (allegedly, there are 4 987 satellites whizzing around above our heads every single day) has been caught by the lens of astronut's GoPro camera...

Amazing isn't it? They also say that there is so much 'space junk' it is a hazard for orbiting satellites and rockets launching yet, in their video 'evidence' there is not a thing. No satellites, no junk and a questionable CGI pic of the Earth.

In the photo below, the dotted red line in the cyan circle is the ISS. The cyan circle is LEO. The yellow circle is MEO. The green dashed line is GPS satellite orbit, and the outer black dashed line is geosynchronous orbit.



So? NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away. If that is correct we should easily be able to see all these satellites and junk that is in our own 'backyard'

I thought we were talking about what you can easily see (and can't) from the ISS?

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Wolvaccine

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #790 on: September 01, 2019, 06:23:47 PM »
I thought we were talking about what you can easily see (and can't) from the ISS?

We still are. If you can see a fast moving Tesla from millions of kilometres away, you can see space junk or satellites a few hundred km away. You don't have atmosphere to obscure your view either.

Are our cameras so conveniently bad when they need to be?

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #791 on: September 02, 2019, 01:42:06 AM »
NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away.
Using what?
A go pro?
I highly doubt it. As such the comparison is complete garbage.

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #792 on: September 02, 2019, 02:19:23 AM »
So? NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away. If that is correct we should easily be able to see all these satellites and junk that is in our own 'backyard'
Really! Please explain why?
Space is huge ::)! When did you last see a car sized object moving at over 27,000 km/hour ;D?
Individual satellites, including the ISS and geostationary satellites can be seen though the latter need a telescope.



This is somehow called 'proof' to you.
  • I claimed nothing as proof. I never even mentioned the Tesla Roadster in space. That was you!

  • Please present your evidence that "NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car" or admit that you are making up stories.

    Elon Musk's Tesla has nothing to do with NASA

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #793 on: September 02, 2019, 02:29:07 AM »
NASA claims to have spotted the supposed Tesla car that supposedly left Earths orbit into deep space from much further away.
Using what?
A go pro?
I highly doubt it. As such the comparison is complete garbage.
Would this 0.81 m astronomical telescope be more likely?
Quote
Tenagra Observatories, Rio Rico, Arizona (AZ), US
Tenagra Observatories is a complex of privately owned telescopes in S. Arizona, Oregon, Norway and Western Australia. . . . . . . . . . The observatory complex has one telescope currently offering time: 0.81-m (32") F7 Ritchey-Chretien. It is 100% automated, data is taken unattended and immediately provided to users for real-time FTP download.
Maybe Shifter has a 0.81-m F7 lens on his GoPro ;D.

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #794 on: September 02, 2019, 06:07:50 AM »
Space myths and misconceptions like "Rockets can fly in a vacuum" are almost tantamount to an assertion "Something can come out of Nothing!"

A Universe From Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather Than Nothing (Free Press, 2012), by cosmologist Lawrence M. Krauss, has been lauded to the skies by fellow atheists such as A.C. Grayling, Sam Harris and Neil deGrasse Tyson. According to Richard Dawkins: "The title means exactly what it says. And what is says is devastating." I agree that what this book says on the subject of why something exists rather than nothing (which isn’t a lot -lol) is devastating, but only to the intellectual credibility of Krauss and his supporters.

Krauss spends most of his book redefining ‘nothing’ in terms of increasingly incorporeal somethings (from ‘empty space’ to reified ‘laws of physics’), as if this justified the conclusion that literal nothingness could be the cause of the cosmos. That’s like arguing that since its possible to live on less and less food each day it must be possible to live on no food.

Had George Carlin been aware of how NASA (modern science) is full of shit he wouldn't have been so pissed off by organized religions :

DAWKINS tries to define NOTHING (hilarious) :



Let's educate Dawkins on basic philosophy :


In a pinned comment below this video, i explained why Universe can't be eternal :


Why have many of us lost faith in science? Very simple, deception. NASA used to be wonderful at doing many scientific portrayals of space. Everything looked so real and most of us were really caught up with it from the 1960s on. But when NASA failed miserably in the 1990s on with fake imagery, the fake ISS, and all those unprofessional actors acting as astronauts (astro-nuts), many of us woke up to reality. And, when an intelligent person has seen and witnessed the fakery of a science field for a few times, that is when 100% of that particular field of science comes into question. How would you feel about someone (example - a Mexican), that has deceived you, say for over 20 years, and you discover the truth about that person. You become very upset inside, and some will even go to the point of never trusting another Mexican person ever again. The same has come to past with space and aeronautical science. Once you have discovered the deception you begin to and lose complete faith in the whole works of its program, and you begin to question everything. As for rockets functioning propulsion in the vacuum of space, for me that is like pulling a boat out of the water, firing up the engine, engaging the prop, rev up the engine, and let's go to town boys...

Javier lopez alegria
2 days ago
I have seen more than 50 hours of space walks,,and NEVER , NEVER ,NEVER  I have seen the pass through the depressurization module, at least is suspicious. The gopro is connected before going out because the astronaut can not connect it outside so....why they cut the more interesting part of the spacewalk?? Is it a secret? Sex photos there?? Please. at least once.

Have you ever seen the pass through the depressurization module of some APOLLO astro-nut(s)???
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #795 on: September 02, 2019, 06:21:04 AM »
Space myths and misconceptions like "Rockets can fly in a vacuum" are almost tantamount to an assertion "Something can come out of Nothing!"
There is not the slightest connection and the fact that "Rockets can and do fly in a vacuum" has no connection with "Something can come out of Nothing!"

Quote from: cikljamas
A Universe From Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather Than Nothing (Free Press, 2012), by cosmologist Lawrence M. Krauss, has been lauded to the skies by fellow atheists such as A.C. Grayling, Sam Harris and Neil deGrasse Tyson. According to Richard Dawkins: "The title means exactly what it says. And what is says is devastating." I agree that what this book says on the subject of why something exists rather than nothing (which isn’t a lot -lol) is devastating, but only to the intellectual credibility of Krauss and his supporters.

Krauss spends most of his book redefining ‘nothing’ in terms of increasingly incorporeal somethings (from ‘empty space’ to reified ‘laws of physics’), as if this justified the conclusion that literal nothingness could be the cause of the cosmos. That’s like arguing that since its possible to live on less and less food each day it must be possible to live on no food.
That is all about hypotheses about "beginnings" and quite unrelated to you topic!

I see nothing related to "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum" in any of that!

Quote from: cikljamas
Had George Carlin been aware of how NASA (modern science) is full of shit he wouldn't have been so pissed off by organized religions :
But NASA (modern science) isn't full of shit, which might be you seem to need to use "Photoshopped" photos in a desperate attempt to prove your pathetically weak case.

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #796 on: September 02, 2019, 06:28:38 AM »
Let me amuse you some more :

The Big Bang Has Big Problems

Keating: page 304: “Then it was Sungenis’s turn. Flora was not impressed  by  what  she  heard.  ‘He  argued  that  the  mass  of  the  universe isn’t accounted for by heliocentrism’ and ‘that scientists have  added  dark  matter  ad  hoc  to  make  equations  work.  He  argued  that  if  the  Big  Bang  is  true,  the  universe  must  be  homogeneous and yet did not explain why that should be true. If anything, Newtonian physics—the law of universal gravitation—says that things would form in clumps as larger masses attracted smaller masses into them.’ This was an astute observation. If one posits  that  at  the  beginning  of  the  Big  Bang...matter  or  proto-matter  was  spewed  out  in  all  directions,  it  is  hard  to  conceive  how that material could have radiated exactly equally toward all distant  point.  If  there  were  the  slightest  disturbance  from  equal distribution and speed, matter indeed would have begun to ‘form into  clumps.’  When  those  clumps  became  large  enough,  they  would  have  formed  stars  and  various  bodies  that  orbit  stars.  Perfect  homogeneity  is  precisely  what  one  would  not  expect  to  find.  This  means  that  the  lack  of  homogeneity,  which  can  be  seen  even  with  the  naked  eye,  is  no  argument  against  the  Big  Bang.”

R. Sungenis: This is what happens when people who don’t study the issue begin  to  think  they  are  experts  on  how  to  explain  it  when  presented  with  challenges. Neither Keating nor Flora understand what the problem is. The  Big  Bang,  in  opposition  to  Steady  State  cosmology,  believes  in  a  beginning  to  our  universe  –  an  explosion  of  some  undefined  infinitesimal  entity that occurred 13.7 billion years ago. This entity is said to have been spawned from a previous universe, and that universe from an even earlier universe (which, as will see in chapter 3, is the same mysticism inherent in ancient  Indian  cosmology  that  believed  the  world  rested  on  the  backs  of  successive turtles).  As  if  getting  something  from  nothing  is  not  enough  of  a  problem,  the  second  thorn  in  the  side  for  the  Big  Bang  appears  when  the  rate  of  the  explosion  must  be  determined.  If  it’s  too  slow,  the  universe  will  go  into  what is called the “Big Crunch,” that is, gravity will pull all the exploding parts back together before it can evolve into the organized biophilic system we see today. If it’s too fast, the universe will be diffuse and likewise will not   be   able   to   produce   galactic   structure   and   biological   life.   Like   Goldilocks  and  her  porridge,  the  expansion  must  be  just  right  otherwise  life  couldn’t  exist  (at  least  under  modern  science’s  illusory  belief  in  evolution  as  the  mechanical  process  that  produces  life).  Too  boot,  the  amount  of  matter  in  the  explosion  must  also  be  just  right.  Too  much  and  the universe will not expand. Too little and no complex structures will be formed.  As  one  scientist  put  it,  it’s  like  trying  to  balance  a  pencil  on  its  point. As  one  can  see,  modern  cosmology  is  in  a  real  pickle.  But  it  didn’t  start  here.  When  Newton  discovered  gravity,  one  of  his  first  problems  was  having to deal with Copernicus’ limited universe. Newton realized that the very  gravity  he  discovered  would  eventually  pull  the  stars  into  one  massive ball. In order to compensate for this problem, Newton opted for an infinite  universe.  As  time  went  by,  science  realized  there  were  too  many  problems  with  an  infinite  universe,  so  Einstein  tried  to  compensate  for  gravity   by   introducing   an   opposing   force,   which   he   called   the   “cosmological constant.” As Misner, et al, describe it:

In  1915,  when  Einstein  developed  his  general  relativity  theory,  the  permanence  of  the  universe  was  a  fixed  item  of  belief  in  Western  philosophy.  “The  heavens  endure  from  everlasting  to  everlasting.”  Thus,  it  disturbed  Einstein  greatly  to  discover  that  his  geometrodynamic  law  G  =  8πT  predicts  a  non-permanent universe;  a  dynamic  universe;  a  universe  that  originated  in  a  “big-bang”   explosion,   or   will   be   destroyed   eventually   by   contraction   to   infinite   density,   or   both.   Faced   with   this   contradiction  between  his  theory  and  the  firm  philosophical  belief of the day, Einstein weakened; he modified his theory.

His new theory would reverse the effects of gravity and keep the universe from falling in on itself. The universe would remain static, not expanding or  contracting.  It  would  also  follow  Mach’s  principle,  wherein  space  was  defined  by  the  matter  within  it.  But  Wilhelm  de  Sitter  didn’t  follow  Mach’s rules and created a variation for Einstein’s cosmological constant. De  Sitter  ignored  all  the  matter  of  the  universe  and  only  concentrated  on  its  quantum  energy,  an  energy  that  would  be  enough  to  propel  the  expansion of the universe. So the choice was between Einstein’s static but matter-filled   universe   and   de   Sitter’s   expanding   but   matter-deficient   universe. 

Next,   Alexander   Friedmann   then   fiddled   with   Einstein’s   math   and   eliminated the cosmological constant and produced an expanding universe still under the constraints of General Relativity. But this required that he make  the  equations  produce  a  universe  whose  matter  was  spread  out  evenly  and  was  the  same  everywhere  (i.e.,  isotropic  and  homogeneous),  otherwise  known  as  the  “cosmological  principle.”  This  made  Arthur Eddington   backtrack   to   point   out   that,   even   with   the   cosmological   constant, an Einstein-type universe was not really static or balanced. Since gravity  and  Einstein’s  cosmological  constant  (Λ)  had  to  be  balanced  so  perfectly   (e.g.,   like   balancing   a   pencil   on   its   point),   even   minute   fluctuations   would   produce   a   runaway   expansion   or   an   unstoppable   contraction.  The  best  Friedmann  could  do  was  propose  a  universe  with  enough matter (what he called “the critical density”) that would allow the universe to expand for eternity but at an ever decreasing rate, even though this solution itself was counterintuitive. As NASA puts it:

Einstein    first    proposed    the    cosmological    constant...as    a    mathematical   fix   to   the   theory   of   general   relativity.   In   its   simplest form, general relativity predicted that the universe must either  expand  or  contract.  Einstein  thought  the  universe  was  static,  so  he  added  this  new  term  [(Λ)  lambda]  to  stop  the  expansion.  Friedmann,  a  Russian  mathematician,  realized  that  this was an unstable fix, like balancing a pencil on its point, and proposed an expanding universe model, now called the Big Bang theory.

In  retrospect,  when  Hubble  relieved  some  of  the  problem  by  interpreting  the redshift of galaxies as a sign that the universe was expanding, still, in order  to  have  the  matter  move  yet  remain  homogeneous  (as  required  by  Friedmann’s  equation),  the  value  of  its  rate  of  expansion  (H);  as  well  as  the  value  of  its  density  (Ω);  and  the  energy  to  propel  the  expansion  (Λ), had to fulfill the Goldilocks rule – it had to be just right or there would be no  universe.  Various  scientists  have  spent  their  entire  careers  trying  to  figure out the perfect combination to these three numbers, but to no avail. Again,  it  is  like  trying  to  balance  a  pencil  on  its  point.  This  is  what  happens  when  the  universe  is  made  to  start  from  a  big  bang  instead  of  creative fiat – the math never produces what we actually see. Postulating a big  bang  is  easy. Making  it  work  with  all  the  other  laws  of  science  is  impossible.


The proponents of this convenient manipulation of data seem oblivious to their ploys. But George Ellis is not ashamed to admit that the whole thing is based on wishing or presuming that the Copernican Principle is true:

Additionally,   we   must   take   seriously   the   idea   that   the   acceleration apparently indicated by supernova data could be due to large scale inhomogeneity with no dark energy. Observational tests of the latter possibility are as important as pursuing the dark energy   (exotic   physics)   option   in   a   homogeneous   universe.   Theoretical  prejudices  as  to  the  universe’s  geometry,  and  our  place  in  it,  must  bow  to  such  observational  tests.  Precisely  because  of  the  foundational  nature  of  the  Copernican  Principle  for standard cosmology, we need to fully check this foundation. And  one  must  emphasize  here  that  standard  CMB  anisotropy  studies do not prove the Copernican principle: they assume it at the  start....The  further  issue  that  arises  is  that  while  some  form  of averaging process is in principle what one should do to arrive at  the  large  scale  geometry  of  the  universe  on  the  basis  of  observations,  in  practice  what  is  normally  done  is  the  inverse.  One  assumes  a  priori  a  FLRW model as  a  background  model,  and then uses some form of observationally-based fitting process to determine its basic parameters.

As  the  famous  20th-century  historian  Arthur C. Clarke once said: 

“The  lesson  to  be  learned  from  these  examples  is  one  that  can  never be repeated too often, and is one that is seldom understood by   laymen   –   who   have   an   almost   superstitious   awe   of   mathematics.   But   mathematics   is   only   a   tool,   though   an   immensely powerful one. No equations, however impressive and complex,  can  arrive  at  the  truth  if  the  initial  assumptions  are  incorrect.  It  is  really  quite  amazing  by  what  margins  competent  but  conservative  scientists  and  engineers  can  miss  the  mark,  when  they  start  with  the  preconceived  idea  that  what  they  are  investigating  is  impossible.  When  this  happens,  the  most  well-informed men become blinded by their prejudices and are unable to  see  what  lies  directly  ahead  of  them.  What  is  even  more  incredible,   they   refuse   to   learn   from   experience;   they   will   continue to make the same mistake over and over again. Some of my best friends are astronomers, and I am sorry to keep throwing stones at them – but they do seem to have an appalling record as prophets.”
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 06:31:18 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #797 on: September 02, 2019, 06:42:23 AM »
Let me amuse you some more :

The Big Bang Has Big Problems
Quite irrelevant to the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum".

Quote from: cikljamas
As  the  famous  20th-century  historian  Arthur C. Clarke once said: 

“The lesson to be learned from  these  examples  is  one  that  can  never be repeated too often, and is one that is seldom understood by   laymen   –   who   have   an   almost   superstitious   awe   of   mathematics.   But   mathematics   is   only   a   tool,   though   an   immensely powerful one. No equations, however impressive and complex,  can  arrive  at  the  truth  if  the  initial  assumptions  are  incorrect.  It  is  really  quite  amazing  by  what  margins  competent  but  conservative  scientists  and  engineers  can  miss  the  mark,  when  they  start  with  the  preconceived  idea  that  what  they  are  investigating  is  impossible.  When  this  happens,  the  most  well-informed men become blinded by their prejudices and are unable to  see  what  lies  directly  ahead  of  them.  What  is  even  more  incredible,   they   refuse   to   learn   from   experience;   they   will   continue to make the same mistake over and over again. Some of my best friends are astronomers, and I am sorry to keep throwing stones at them – but they do seem to have an appalling record as prophets.”
Sure, but quite irrelevant to the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum".

?

dutchy

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #798 on: September 02, 2019, 10:50:52 AM »
Let me amuse you some more :

The Big Bang Has Big Problems
Quite irrelevant to the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum".

Quote from: cikljamas
As  the  famous  20th-century  historian  Arthur C. Clarke once said: 

“The lesson to be learned from  these  examples  is  one  that  can  never be repeated too often, and is one that is seldom understood by   laymen   –   who   have   an   almost   superstitious   awe   of   mathematics.   But   mathematics   is   only   a   tool,   though   an   immensely powerful one. No equations, however impressive and complex,  can  arrive  at  the  truth  if  the  initial  assumptions  are  incorrect.  It  is  really  quite  amazing  by  what  margins  competent  but  conservative  scientists  and  engineers  can  miss  the  mark,  when  they  start  with  the  preconceived  idea  that  what  they  are  investigating  is  impossible.  When  this  happens,  the  most  well-informed men become blinded by their prejudices and are unable to  see  what  lies  directly  ahead  of  them.  What  is  even  more  incredible,   they   refuse   to   learn   from   experience;   they   will   continue to make the same mistake over and over again. Some of my best friends are astronomers, and I am sorry to keep throwing stones at them – but they do seem to have an appalling record as prophets.”
Sure, but quite irrelevant to the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum".
By now even you must acknowledge that manned rockets cannot go to the moon, visit the place and safely return to earth.

I am following this with much pleasure.... it seems this place is loaded with rocket scientists, top photographers and many many top hotshots in their respective field of science.
If only mister McGravity Neil deGrasse Tyson would join the discussion in this upper echelon  of online expertise.
I guess he feels more comfertable among his own people at a latenight show.... ::)
At least we still have the rocket scientist, top photographer, historian, cartographer, scientist of light and former electricien .... the one and only Jac...Rabinoz ;D
So much credentials will even impress Neil deGrasse Tyson..... and for me it’s also a humbling experience.

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #799 on: September 02, 2019, 10:57:29 AM »
Let me amuse you some more :
The Big Bang Has Big Problems
Quite irrelevant to the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum".

Everything is Interconnected & Inseparable, this especially applies to modern cosmology and astrophysics.

No  one  at  the  present  time  has  any  understanding  of  where  this  ‘energy of nothing’ comes from....If we take the latest theory of subatomic  particles  and  try  to  compute  the  value  of  this  dark  energy, we find a number that is off by 10^120. Michio Kaku

So, here  is  an  even  bigger  problem.  Since  Big  Bang  cosmologists  believe  space  contains  10^120  more  energy  than  what  we  have  detected;  and  since  Einstein’s  General  Theory  of  Relativity  requires  that  all  forms  of  energy  (even  the  10^120)  function  as  a  source  of  gravity;  and  since  Einstein’s  equations  require  that  the  “curvature”  of  the  universe  depends  on  its  energy  content,  then,  since  the  energy  content  is  10^120  more  than  what  Einstein proposed, the whole universe should presently be curled up into a space smaller than the dot on this i. Obviously it isn’t. As we can see, the Big Bang universe simply does not work under present empirical evidence.

Noted  physicist  Paul  Steinhardt  of  Princeton  has  gone  on  record  against  the  present  Big  Bang  theory.  He  opts  for  what  can  best  be  called  the  Big  Brane theory. In a recent lecture, Steinhardt says the following of the Big Bang: 

So,  the  first  point  I  want  to  make  about  the  Big  Bang  model  is  that  the  Big  Bang  model  of  2011...that  model  I  just  described,  definitely fails....We have to fix the Big Bang model, we have to add things to it to make it work.

Indeed,  things  like  Inflation,  Dark  Matter,  Dark  Energy,  Lambda  values  and  Hubble  “constants”  of  which  the  only  thing  constant  is  that  they  are  constantly  being  changed  to  accommodate  the  next  fudge  factor  that  will  prop  up  the  Big  Bang.  Along  these  lines,  Richard  Lieu  submitted  a  scathing critique of the ΛCDM [Big Bang] model in a 2007 paper:

...Cosmology   is   not   even   astrophysics:   all   the   principal   assumptions  in  this  field  are  unverified  (or  unverifiable)  in  the  laboratoryand  researches  are  quite  comfortable  with  inventing  unknowns  to  explain  the  unknown.  How  then  could,  after  fifty  years of failed attempts in finding dark matter, the fields of dark matter and now, dark energy have become such lofty priorities in astronomy  funding,  to  the  detriment  of  all  other  branches  of  astronomy?...ΛCDM   cosmology   has   been   propped   by   a   paralyzing   amount   of   propaganda   which   suppress   counter   evidence and subdue competing models....I believe astronomy is no longer heading towards a healthy future....Charging under the banner of Einstein’s extreme eminence and his forbidding theory of  General  Relativity,  have  cosmologists  been  over-exercising  our  privileges?...Could  this  be  a  sign  of  a  person  (or  camp  of  people in prestigious institutes) who become angry because they are embarrassed?

As it was for Einstein in 1905 when he invented Special Relativity, any ad hoc  solution  other  than  an  Earth  in  the  center  of  the  universe  would  be  acceptable for modern man. The reason was plain. As Hubble put it in his book: “Such a favored position, of course, is intolerable.”

Essentially,  spatial  curvature  and  homogeneity  are  modern  cosmology’s  manufactured   but   necessary   ingredients   to   maintain   the   Copernican   Principle, the  presuppositional  belief  that  the  Earth  is  not  special  and  inhabits  no  special  place  in  the  universe.  Spatial  curvature  removes  the  Earth from the center of a three-dimensional Euclidean universe and puts it on  the  surface  of  a  two-dimensional  hyperspace.

As  noted  in  his  book,  Hubble  also  wanted  a  homogeneous  universe.  This  means  that  as  one  looks  into  the  universe,  everything  will  appear  to  be  precisely  the  same,  analogous  to  homogenized  milk  that  has  no  cream  on  top   and   no   lumps   in   the   middle.   This   is   otherwise   known   as   the   Cosmological  Principle,  which  then  leads  to  the  conclusion  that  the  universe has no distinguished place, and thus no center and no motionless celestial  body  to  occupy  a  center.  It  would  be  the  same  as  if  one  were  in the desert and looked north, east, south and west and saw the same sand in each direction with no distinguishing features.

After  Einstein  and  Hubble  presented  the  foundation  for  cosmology,  all  subsequent  theories  had  to  be  based  on  a  homogeneous  and  spatially  curved  universe, otherwise  it  would  necessarily  be  geocentric.  As  noted,  the amount of curvature needed was calculated by using Einstein’s famous tensor equation, G = 8πΤ and G –λ = 8πΤ.

The homogeneity that was needed to make Einstein and Hubble’s universe feasible   was   calculated   by   a   Russian   physicist   named      Alexander Friedmann who adjusted Einstein’s equations for this very purpose.

A few decades later, Stephen Hawking admitted the real motivation behind Friedmann’s   attempt   to   make   the   universe   homogeneous.   As   was   becoming common in modern cosmology, the motivation was to eliminate a  center,  and  more  specifically,  Earth’s  possible  occupation  of  the  centerHawking writes in A Brief History of Time:

There  is,  however,  an  alternate  explanation  [to  a  central  Earth]:  the universe might look the same in every direction as seen from any  other  galaxy,  too.  This,  as  we  have  seen,  was  Friedmann’s  second  assumption.  We  have  no  scientific  evidence  for,  or  against,  this  assumption.  We  believe  it  only  on  grounds  of  modesty: it would be most remarkable if the universe looked the same in every direction around us, but not around other points in the universe.

So we see that the men of Hubble and Hawking’s generation choose their cosmological  model  based  not  so  much  on  science  (since  the  science  is  ambiguous)  but  on  a  commitment  to  a  universe  that  best  fits  their  philosophy. One wonders, then, whether Hawking’s claim of “modesty” in deciding  against  a  central  Earth  is  actually  pride  in  disguise,  especially  since he has since become known for proposing the universe did not need a God to begin it or continue it. According to Hawking, who is an avowed atheist, the universe could start all by itself, from nothing.

It may be boldly asked where can the man be found, possessing the extraordinary gifts of Newton, who could suffer himself to be deluded by such a hocus-pocus, if he had not in the first instance willfully deceived himself; Only those who know the strength of self-deception, and the extent to which it sometimes trenches on dishonesty, are in a condition to explain the conduct of Newton and of Newton’s school. To support his unnatural theory Newton heaps fiction upon fiction, seeking to dazzle where he cannot convince. In whatever way or manner may have occurred this business, I must still say that I curse this modern history theory of Cosmology, and hope that perchance there may appear, in due time, some young scientists of genius, who will pick up courage enough to upset this universally disseminated DELIRIUM OF LUNATICS. ~ Goethe (August 28, 1749 – March 22, 1832)

What would Goethe say today???

"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #800 on: September 02, 2019, 11:25:40 AM »
What would Goethe say today???

Goethe would say, "Stop quote mining/cherry picking every scholar known to man, re-posting walls of text and stick to the topic, 'Rockets can't fly in a vacuum', or admit defeat."

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #801 on: September 02, 2019, 02:31:20 PM »
Space myths and misconceptions like "Rockets can fly in a vacuum" are almost tantamount to an assertion "Something can come out of Nothing!"
You mean facts like rockets can fly in a vacuum, a fact that you have been avoiding throughout this thread, with you needing to avoid even simple questions.

That is quite different to the ridiculous religious idea of a god creating something from nothing, or for that highly complex god to just exist without cause.

Now once again, NOTHING in your post has anything at all to do with if rockets can or cannot fly in a vacuum. Your posting shows that you have lost, you know you have lost, you know your lies have been exposed, and now you are trying to hide it.

If you want any sane person to take you seriously you will need to deal with the topic at hand before moving on.

Again answer the question:
What force is acting on the gas that is exiting the rocket to make it go in a particular direction and what is the other body involved in this interaction?

Will you claim pure magic with gas magically being held inside an open container exposed to a vacuum?
Will you claim pure magic of an object being accelerated without a force?
Will you claim pure magic of an object having a force applied with the corresponding reactionary force?
Or will you be rational for once and accept that rockets will work in a vacuum?

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mak3m

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #802 on: September 02, 2019, 02:36:48 PM »


As  the  famous  20th-century  historian  Arthur C. Clarke once said: 

“The  lesson  to  be  learned  from  these  examples  is  one  that  can  never be repeated too often, and is one that is seldom understood by   laymen   –   who   have   an   almost   superstitious   awe   of   mathematics.   But   mathematics   is   only   a   tool,   though   an   immensely powerful one. No equations, however impressive and complex,  can  arrive  at  the  truth  if  the  initial  assumptions  are  incorrect.  It  is  really  quite  amazing  by  what  margins  competent  but  conservative  scientists  and  engineers  can  miss  the  mark,  when  they  start  with  the  preconceived  idea  that  what  they  are  investigating  is  impossible.  When  this  happens,  the  most  well-informed men become blinded by their prejudices and are unable to  see  what  lies  directly  ahead  of  them.  What  is  even  more  incredible,   they   refuse   to   learn   from   experience;   they   will   continue to make the same mistake over and over again. Some of my best friends are astronomers, and I am sorry to keep throwing stones at them – but they do seem to have an appalling record as prophets.”

Im amused.

Arthur C Clarke is a preeminent science writer, science fiction writer and inventor of the 20th Century. He wasn't a historian but a futureologist, long before the field was even invented.

The joke, he popularised the idea of geostationary orbits for communication satellites and calculated the orbit itself, indeed the geostationary orbit is called the Clarke Belt.

I think if the man who calculated the orbital mechanics required to travel to Saturn in the 60's, knew he was being discussed in the same breath as FE theory would be both literally and figuratively spinning in his grave.
You have to learn to reply without quoting a long previous answer.

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Macarios

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #803 on: September 02, 2019, 07:29:57 PM »
Space myths and misconceptions like "Rockets can fly in a vacuum" are almost tantamount to an assertion "Something can come out of Nothing!"

You still didn't answer the question:

Is there a force between a rocket and its exhaust?

Or rocket accelerates exhaust without a force? :)
(Don't forget that exhaust has mass.)

:)
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #804 on: September 02, 2019, 08:12:59 PM »
Let me amuse you some more :
"We are not amused! ;) "

Quote from: cikljamas
The Big Bang Has Big Problems
So what? That's quite irrelevant to the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum".

Everything is Interconnected & Inseparable, this especially applies to modern cosmology and astrophysics.
Not in the slightest!

The question as to whether or not rockets can fly in a vacuum is simply a physics problem of the here and now and is a local issue.

Modern cosmology is largely trying to determine "origins" from observations of the extremely (tens of millions of light years) distant and hence very old Universe.

Astrophysics is defined as "the branch of astronomy concerned with the physical nature of stars and other celestial bodies, and the application of the laws and theories of physics to the interpretation of astronomical observations."

So obviously neither Modern cosmology nor Astrophysics are relevant to the question of whether or not rockets can fly in a vacuum

Quote from: cikljamas
No  one  at  the  present  time  has  any  understanding  of  where  this  ‘energy of nothing’ comes from....If we take the latest theory of subatomic  particles  and  try  to  compute  the  value  of  this  dark  energy, we find a number that is off by 10^120. Michio Kaku

Michio Kaku is simply pointing that while neither Quantum Mechanics nor General Relativity can be faulted in their own "domains"
 they cannot yet be combined into a "Theory of Everything".

That has nothing to do with the topic of "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum"!
Stop dragging in irrelevant material into your own topic on "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum"!

If you want discussions on Modern cosmology, Astrophysics or Geocentric Universe vs Heliocentric Solar System make suitable threads.

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sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #805 on: September 03, 2019, 01:22:37 AM »
There is no need to resort to rocket experiments in vacuum, it has already been done on a grand scale.

If gas had an effect on objects in a vacuum we would expect to find an example in nature.

"Saturn's moon Enceladus, for example, shoots a jet of water ice 500 KM into space. The diameter of the moon itself is only 500 KM. Does this jet have any effect? No. The jet as tall as the moon is wide goes harmlessly off into space."

https://www.space.com/22181-saturn-moon-enceladus-water-geysers.html

https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/science/enceladus/





https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16151-supersonic-water-jets-shoot-from-saturn-moon/

The jets were still tightly focused at an altitude of 15 km above the surface, suggesting they were moving faster than 2100 km per hour. Such high speeds imply that the jets are fed by pressurised water vapour that shoots through narrow openings – which act like rocket nozzles – in the moon’s icy surface.


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kopfverderber

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #806 on: September 03, 2019, 01:53:46 AM »
There is no need to resort to rocket experiments in vacuum, it has already been done on a grand scale.

If gas had an effect on objects in a vacuum we would expect to find an example in nature.

"Saturn's moon Enceladus, for example, shoots a jet of water ice 500 KM into space. The diameter of the moon itself is only 500 KM. Does this jet have any effect? No. The jet as tall as the moon is wide goes harmlessly off into space."

https://www.space.com/22181-saturn-moon-enceladus-water-geysers.html

https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/science/enceladus/





https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16151-supersonic-water-jets-shoot-from-saturn-moon/

The jets were still tightly focused at an altitude of 15 km above the surface, suggesting they were moving faster than 2100 km per hour. Such high speeds imply that the jets are fed by pressurised water vapour that shoots through narrow openings – which act like rocket nozzles – in the moon’s icy surface.

Yes we know about those geysers thanks to the Cassini orbiter, which made the pictures you are posting.
You must gather your party before venturing forth

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #807 on: September 03, 2019, 02:13:18 AM »
There is no need to resort to rocket experiments in vacuum, it has already been done on a grand scale.
You mean with the multitude of rockets that have gone to space?

If gas had an effect on objects in a vacuum we would expect to find an example in nature.
Try and find an example which even comes close to a rocket.

But the rest of your post seems unconnected as it is referring to water ice, not gas.

The diameter of the moon itself is only 500 KM
You mean is a massive 500 km, nothing like a rocket.
So useless as a comparison to rockets.

moving faster than 2100 km per hour
i.e. roughly 580 m/s, nothing like the multi-km/s of rocket exhaust.
So again useless as a comparison to rockets.

How about you give us the mass of the moon, the mass flow rate of the ice and the velocity of the ice, with references.
Show that it should be comparable to a rocket.
Otherwise it is useless.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #808 on: September 03, 2019, 02:18:16 AM »

I went diving once. I didnt see a single blue whale. They say there are 25.000 blue whales in the ocean, bullshit.

There are usually dozens on a reef
in less than 30 feet of water.
They can really blend in.   ;)

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sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #809 on: September 03, 2019, 02:31:52 AM »
Water vapor is gas.


https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16151-supersonic-water-jets-shoot-from-saturn-moon/

The jets were still tightly focused at an altitude of 15 km above the surface, suggesting they were moving faster than 2100 km per hour. Such high speeds imply that the jets are fed by pressurised water vapour that shoots through narrow openings – which act like rocket nozzles – in the moon’s icy surface.


Same principle applies as for rockets in a vacuum, yet no modification of the orbit is being observed.

Let us remember that there is a very delicate balance between the tidal forces attributed to Saturn and its moons (official astronomical data):

http://www.saturndaily.com/reports/Saturns_bulging_core_implies_moons_younger_than_thought_999.html

ANY disturbance would lead to orbital chaos.





Since the water vapor geysers of Enceladus have NO EFFECT whatsoever on the orbit of the satellite (ejected on such a huge scale of hundreds of kilometers), we can safely infer that rockets do not and cannot function in vacuum, same principle applies (not the speed of the gas itself).