Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life

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markjo

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2018, 09:01:12 AM »
Lol Again the crux of my argument is totally ignored.

My car is not a vehicle and I am not a driver.

As I posted in my original post, the California vehicle code defines a vehicle as a device.
No, I'm pretty sure that there's more to the definition than that.

It also defines a person as a person... or a business or corporation etc.
Are you saying that you aren't a person?

What is a device?

A device is a mechanical invention that is newly discovered that embraces the concept of non obviousness.
Not according to Merriam-Webster.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/device

So, my car is not a device, and therefore not a vehicle.
Incorrect.

Unless I register it as a vehicle which is required by law in order to drive.

But its a good thing I do not drive.

I travel.
Traveling and driving are not mutually exclusive activities.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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markjo

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2018, 09:06:48 AM »
What does Black use as a definition for vehicle, while we're at it?

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What is VEHICLE?

The word “vehicle” includes every description of carriage or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on land. Rev. St. U. S. 5 4 (U. S. Comp. St 1901, P. 4).

Yeah, you travel alright.  In a vehicle, that requires a license plate, registration, proof of insurance, and with a valid driver's license while residing in the state of California.  Just like everybody else.  By all means, pretend the laws don't apply to you and eventually your luck will run out.

Transportation is defined in the US code and by Blacks law as trade or commerce.

If my car is not capable of being used for commerce, since it is not registered, it is not a vehicle.
If your car isn't registered, then it isn't allowed to travel on public roads either.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2018, 09:22:47 AM »
There is no reason to believe that N30 is anything more than a self-imagined wannabe rebel who likes to boast falsely about things he doesn't do but wishes he has the courage to do.

Mildly entertaining at best.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2018, 10:26:19 AM »
Lol Again the crux of my argument is totally ignored.

My car is not a vehicle and I am not a driver.

As I posted in my original post, the California vehicle code defines a vehicle as a device.

It also defines a person as a person... or a business or corporation etc.

What is a device?

A device is a mechanical invention that is newly discovered that embraces the concept of non obviousness.

What is an invention?

A patentable device!

WELL, my car that I built is not patentable, nor is it newly discovered.

So, my car is not a device, and therefore not a vehicle.

Unless I register it as a vehicle which is required by law in order to drive.

But its a good thing I do not drive.

I travel.
Again, you cherry pick one definition among many.  Your car is absolutely a device and if you operate it, you are a driver.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #124 on: April 08, 2018, 11:18:55 AM »
There is no reason to believe that N30 is anything more than a self-imagined wannabe rebel who likes to boast falsely about things he doesn't do but wishes he has the courage to do.

Mildly entertaining at best.
I disagree.

It is quite entertaining.

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Crutchwater

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #125 on: April 08, 2018, 11:21:36 AM »
There is no reason to believe that N30 is anything more than a self-imagined wannabe rebel who likes to boast falsely about things he doesn't do but wishes he has the courage to do.

Mildly entertaining at best.

My money is on multiple D.U.I. infractions.

His license is revoked.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #126 on: April 08, 2018, 11:24:35 AM »
Lol Again the crux of my argument is totally ignored.

My car is not a vehicle and I am not a driver.

As I posted in my original post, the California vehicle code defines a vehicle as a device.

It also defines a person as a person... or a business or corporation etc.

What is a device?

A device is a mechanical invention that is newly discovered that embraces the concept of non obviousness.

What is an invention?

A patentable device!

WELL, my car that I built is not patentable, nor is it newly discovered.

So, my car is not a device, and therefore not a vehicle.

Unless I register it as a vehicle which is required by law in order to drive.

But its a good thing I do not drive.

I travel.
What about my previous post:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74650.msg2042195#msg2042195

You stated "Case law IS law” in your first post.  My post provided more recent case law directly applicable to you as a car owner in California.  What doesn't that apply to you? 

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #127 on: April 08, 2018, 04:43:23 PM »
I would just like to point out that opinions do not matter in regards to the law

Wow! Now, that statement says a lot!

All advice and decisions in legal matters are opinions. Many are clear cut, but some are based on very narrowly defined and sometimes convoluted interpretations of words. They are all opinions.

Just, wow!

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and the majority of opposing arguments in this thread are opinion.

More than that, all of them are.

So are all of your assertions.

Quote
I have posted definitions from the most widely used legal dictionary in the US which is backed by case law.

I can post text out of context that I don't understand, too. I, at least, try not to do that.

Quote
<stuff>

The above link is from the 1910 edition of Blacks Law dictionary, but the definition remained unchanged until 1957.

Cool! Have you looked at a calendar showing today's date recently?

There is absolutely no evidence that you're doing, much less getting away with, any of these things you say you are. None.

I don't wish ill on anyone. It's one thing to assume a swaggering persona that purports to know more than everyone else, but, because of that, God help anyone that actually believes you and acts on what you claim they should do.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2018, 07:50:33 PM »
The problem is that there's no proof he's telling the truth.

Actually there's no proof he's a he.

Or that he's not an internet troll.

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rvlvr

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #129 on: April 08, 2018, 11:30:00 PM »
There is no reason to believe that N30 is anything more than a self-imagined wannabe rebel who likes to boast falsely about things he doesn't do but wishes he has the courage to do.

Mildly entertaining at best.

My money is on multiple D.U.I. infractions.

His license is revoked.
I wouldn’t be surprised.

Somewhat related: I wonder how many ”sovereign citizens” and flat Earthers there are amongst Ivy Leaguers? Seems to me these things are usually embraced more by the, ahem, ”freer thinkers”.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:31:47 PM by rvlvr »

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #130 on: April 08, 2018, 11:42:32 PM »
There's no way this is true.

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rvlvr

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #131 on: April 09, 2018, 01:08:15 AM »
There's no way this is true.
Most likely not, or he just hasn't been pulled over yet.

When he will, it will be comedy gold.

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N30

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2018, 10:37:45 PM »
California Vehicle Code 21052

The provisions of this code applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways apply to the drivers of all vehicles while engaged in the course of employment by this State, any political subdivision thereof, any municipal corporation, or any district, including authorized emergency vehicles subject to those exemptions granted such authorized emergency vehicles in this code.

California Vehicle Code 260

(a) A “commercial vehicle” is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

(b) Passenger vehicles and house cars that are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit are not commercial vehicles. This subdivision shall not apply to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 6700) of Division 3.

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File DMV form DL 142 and create a trust for the ownership of your car.

You have the right to travel.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #133 on: April 14, 2018, 12:20:08 AM »
California Vehicle Code 21052

The provisions of this code applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways apply to the drivers of all vehicles while engaged in the course of employment by this State, any political subdivision thereof, any municipal corporation, or any district, including authorized emergency vehicles subject to those exemptions granted such authorized emergency vehicles in this code.

California Vehicle Code 260

(a) A “commercial vehicle” is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

(b) Passenger vehicles and house cars that are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit are not commercial vehicles. This subdivision shall not apply to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 6700) of Division 3.

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File DMV form DL 142 and create a trust for the ownership of your car.

You have the right to travel.
Right.  They are not commercial vehicles.  They are still vehicles though.  Commercial vehicles require a seperate license.
You do have the right to travel.  But if you are going to operate a vehicle it needs to be registered and you need to be licensed.  That's the law.  You picking and choosing specific parts of definitions and ignoring other parts doesn't change that.

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N30

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #134 on: April 14, 2018, 05:57:22 AM »
The vehicle code very clearly states that it applies to the drivers of vehicles under the employment of the state. When you register your car as a vehicle and pay for your license, you then begin working for the state.

To claim your right to travel on public property, and not fall under the jurisdiction of this private code, onforced only upon those who contract under it, simply cancel all contracts and give ownership of the car to a private trust and not the state.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #135 on: April 14, 2018, 06:14:43 AM »
California Vehicle Code 21052

The provisions of this code applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways apply to the drivers of all vehicles while engaged in the course of employment by this State, any political subdivision thereof, any municipal corporation, or any district, including authorized emergency vehicles subject to those exemptions granted such authorized emergency vehicles in this code.

California Vehicle Code 260

(a) A “commercial vehicle” is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

(b) Passenger vehicles and house cars that are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit are not commercial vehicles. This subdivision shall not apply to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 6700) of Division 3.

---

File DMV form DL 142 and create a trust for the ownership of your car.

You have the right to travel.
So, you’re going to ignore the case law that states that States can have “registration and licensing requirements, which are within the State's police power to impose.”

You’ll just ignore the inconvenient case law that contradicts your claims?

Figures.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #136 on: April 14, 2018, 06:25:08 AM »
The vehicle code very clearly states that it applies to the drivers of vehicles under the employment of the state. When you register your car as a vehicle and pay for your license, you then begin working for the state.

To claim your right to travel on public property, and not fall under the jurisdiction of this private code, onforced only upon those who contract under it, simply cancel all contracts and give ownership of the car to a private trust and not the state.
No it doesn't very clearly state that.  You are only looking at one of many definitions.  Again, this has been tried in.courts and has failed.

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frenat

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #137 on: April 14, 2018, 06:28:16 AM »
The vehicle code very clearly states that it applies to the drivers of vehicles under the employment of the state. When you register your car as a vehicle and pay for your license, you then begin working for the state.

To claim your right to travel on public property, and not fall under the jurisdiction of this private code, onforced only upon those who contract under it, simply cancel all contracts and give ownership of the car to a private trust and not the state.
No it doesn't very clearly state that.  You are only looking at one of many definitions.  Again, this has been tried in.courts and has failed.
Looks to me like that part is saying it applies to employees of the state as well as in they are not exempt.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #138 on: April 14, 2018, 06:40:16 AM »
The vehicle code very clearly states that it applies to the drivers of vehicles under the employment of the state. When you register your car as a vehicle and pay for your license, you then begin working for the state.

To claim your right to travel on public property, and not fall under the jurisdiction of this private code, onforced only upon those who contract under it, simply cancel all contracts and give ownership of the car to a private trust and not the state.
No it doesn't very clearly state that.  You are only looking at one of many definitions.  Again, this has been tried in.courts and has failed.
Looks to me like that part is saying it applies to employees of the state as well as in they are not exempt.
Yeah.  He tends to find one part of the law and then think that all the other parts don't count.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #139 on: April 14, 2018, 06:43:08 AM »
The vehicle code very clearly states that it applies to the drivers of vehicles under the employment of the state. When you register your car as a vehicle and pay for your license, you then begin working for the state.

To claim your right to travel on public property, and not fall under the jurisdiction of this private code, onforced only upon those who contract under it, simply cancel all contracts and give ownership of the car to a private trust and not the state.


No, that code states that State Employees are subject to Division 11. Rules of Road and are not exempt.  Chapter 1 Article 2 of Division 11, provides specific instances of exemption and application such as the case of State Employees.  State Employees are not above State Law, which is the reason for such a provision.  Read the other codes within Chapter 1 Article 2 of Division 11.

Additionally, vehicle registration is found under Division 3 Registration of Vehicles and Certificates of Title of the California Vehicle Code.  You can read specifically about which vehicles must be registered and which are exempt from registration within Chapter 1 Article 1 of Division 3.


« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 06:45:55 AM by NotSoSkeptical »
Rabinoz RIP

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markjo

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #140 on: April 14, 2018, 08:07:57 AM »
To claim your right to travel on public property, and not fall under the jurisdiction of this private code, onforced only upon those who contract under it, simply cancel all contracts and give ownership of the car to a private trust and not the state.
Traveling on public property is not the issue and neither is the ownership of the motor vehicle.  It's when you operate a motor vehicle to travel on public property that it becomes an issue.  You still need a driver's license to operate a rental or borrowed motor vehicle and that motor vehicle still needs to be properly registered.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #141 on: April 14, 2018, 12:53:59 PM »
This "advice" can only get you into trouble. 
The state vehicular statutes (pretty much the same in every state) have their own definitions for the crucial terms - which are used rather than the partial definitions taken from various dictionaries.  Whoever is in physical control of a vehicle on the public road is a driver, no matter if he's doing it for fun or for money.  An automobile or a truck is a motor vehicle - again, without regard as to whether it's being used for fun or for money.  In every state, without exception, a motor vehicle used on the public roads must have state-issued license plates; and whoever is operating the motor vehicle on the public road must have a driver's license, must have it with him while motoring, and must show his driver's license to any policeman who stops him and asks to see it. 

Putting a vehicle on the public road without a license plate is a crime (not a mere traffic infraction), motoring with a driver's license is also a crime, refusing/failing to present one's driver's license to police who asked for it is also a crime.  Any of these crimes can bring a motor trip to an abrupt end - a vehicle without a license plate cannot be driven away, a person without a driver's license cannot be allowed to drive himself (even to drive himself straight home).  In the absence of a license plate or a licensed motorist the vehicle will be impounded by the police, its contents inventoried - and any contraband found inside the car may be used as evidence in a further criminal charge.  At the very least, a ride in the back of a police car, wearing handcuffs, and hours killed in a police station.  But it can get worse with fines and jail.

The US Supreme Court has repeatedly and consistently upheld the authority - and duty - of the states to require that only licensed motorists operate motor vehicles on the public roads.  It has upheld this requirement even for obviously "non-commercial" motoring.  You won't find a court decision in the last 90 years allowing for unlicensed motoring.

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N30

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2018, 10:29:02 AM »
The California Vehicle Act of 1915 was the precursor to the California Vehicle Code of today and they are almost identical.

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The Vehicle Act of 1915 states it is "An act to regulate the use and operation of vehicles upon the public highways and elsewhere; to provide for the registration and identification of motor vehicles and for the payment and registration fees therefor; to provide the licensing of persons operating motor vehicles;

Sounds like a vehicle code in any of the united States so far, right?

Well, lets define what a "PERSON" is that they say must be license to operate a motor vehicle.

According to the Vehicle Act of 1915 a "PERSON" is...

Quote
"Person shall include any corporation, association, co-partnership, company, firm, or other aggregation of individuals."

I did not read that a person means a man or woman.

Therefor one must assume that a person is NOT a man or woman, and instead of a FICTIONAL legal person.

The government cannot require a license to engage in a right protected by the Constitution.

Argue all you want, but we as Americans have the right to travel, be it walking, riding a horse, or zooming down the road in a car, that is our right. The freedom of movement. We are not slaves that can be obligated to acquire a license and pay fees in order to travel within our free country. This is America, not Nazi Germany. Our papers do not have to be in order to jump in a car and motor down to the grocery store, or commute to work. We are not subservients to our government, they are subservient to us! We make the rules that they enforce! However the people throwing patriots in jail, and calling militia members terrorists are not the government. They are a corporation. They are a secret society. They are an illegal gang of mobsters that twist the facts and lie through their teeth. They have employed the police force. Deadly force is their authority now. Only together, as the people of America, can we stop these brutes before they erase even the memory of the freedom we Americans once enjoyed.


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N30

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #143 on: September 18, 2018, 10:41:27 AM »
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b5001505;view=1up;seq=5

I forgot the link to the 1915 Vehicle act.

Read it yourself!

Try to figure out exactly when in the 100 years between 1915 and 2015 that "PERSON" magically became defined as every man and woman in America.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #144 on: September 18, 2018, 10:45:33 AM »
Did they define "include" in the 1915 Vehicle Act?
Rabinoz RIP

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2018, 10:51:01 AM »
Quote
"Person shall include any corporation, association, co-partnership, company, firm, or other aggregation of individuals."

Shall INCLUDE means in addition to an individual person.

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N30

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #146 on: September 18, 2018, 10:52:38 AM »
No. "Include" is not defined.

When a word is not defined, you would use a standard dictionary definition, and not the definitions provided that are to be used in place of a dictionary definition.

A person is not a man or woman.

A person is a business or fictitious legal person.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 10:55:35 AM by N30 »

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #147 on: September 18, 2018, 10:57:51 AM »
No. "Include" is not defined.

Neither is 'Shall'.   ::)

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #148 on: September 18, 2018, 11:09:15 AM »
No. "Include" is not defined.

When a word is not defined, you would use a standard dictionary definition, and not the definitions provided that are to be used in place of a dictionary definition.

A person is not a man or woman.

A person is a business or fictitious legal person.

Where are you getting your definition of person?

I pulled up the Merriam-Webster Dictionary,Oxford English Dictionary, and Dictionary.com and they all define a person as a human being; individual.

The Vehicle Act of 1915 "definition" of Person uses the set of words "shall include".  This implies an addition to the original definition.  It doesn't say a Person IS.  IS and SHALL INCLUDE do not mean the same thing.

Are you one these sovereign citizens?
Rabinoz RIP

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Stash

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Re: Flat Earth Directly Benefits My Daily Life
« Reply #149 on: September 18, 2018, 11:10:22 AM »
Argue all you want, but we as Americans have the right to travel, be it walking, riding a horse, or zooming down the road in a car, that is our right. The freedom of movement.

That road you're zooming down in your car to get a loaf of bread, how did it get there? Who maintains it? Where did that stop sign come from?

What gives a gov't the right to place a stop sign and demand you to stop? Maybe you should be protesting stop signs. Freedom!
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man