The capacitor thrusters are fed high voltage and develop thrust leading away from a large electrode, excess ions are thrown off from this with the Biefeld-Brown Effect. No it didn't, that is the result of excess ions with through thrust from high voltage. Ion wind/excess ions/heavy ions cannot be responsible for the Biefeld-Brown effect:
Your lack of understading of the Biefeld-Brown effect is appaling.
You have failed, as usual, to explain the ether drift recorded in the vacuum chamber, using the Biefeld-Brown effect.
You have resorted to using the T. Roberts paper which has already been debunked thoroughly by Dr. James DeMeo.
Please read:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=72517.msg1977156#msg1977156https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=72517.msg1977157#msg1977157 (issues related to temperature)
Letter addressed to T. Roberts:
You evaluated Miller's August 1927 data set, but this is hardly
mentioned in his 1933 paper which you cited, and which is among his
most important ones on the subject. The 1933 paper covered a short
history of the ether-drift determinations, but primarily focused upon
his significant 1925-1926 experiments undertaken atop Mt. Wilson.
The
Mt. Wilson experiments are what you should be discussing, not the
insignificant tests in Cleveland either before or after Mt. Wilson.You proclaim, without evidence firstly that the direction of
ether-drift and velocity determinations were "not significantly better
than any other" direction or velocity --
this might be true for the
1927 data you examined. I have not seen it so cannot say. But it is
most definitely NOT the case for the 1925 and 1926 Mt. Wilson data,
which is what is presented in Miller's 1933 paper.Those Cleveland experiments undertaken by Miller prior to Mt. Wilson
often were calibration tests, or experiments to evaluate different
materials for the base and composition of the interferometer, under
different thermal environments, and so on.
It seems probable, the data
set you analyzed was another of those calibration tests. Again, the
graphs appearing in Millers 1933 paper were composed from his Mt.
Wilson experiments of 1925 and 1926, not from any data from Cleveland
in August 1927. Perhaps you can give a citation as to where you noted
some kind of graphs for the August 1927 data? I cannot recall any such
publication of Miller's post-Mt.Wilson data. After Mt. Wilson, he was
finished with the problem, felt he had nailed it down. Is it possible,
you have data sets from some of his students? I merely ask, because
there is no relevance to the data you undertook to re-analyze.
Shankland, et al, did their best to bury Miller's work forever. They
failed, as their approach was sloppy and showed an ignorance of how the
ether-drift experiments were undertaken. Both they and you ignored the
central issue of the needs for doing these experiments over different
times of year. Yes, you can point to one seasonal epoch and try to
argue that the systematic pattern in Miller's data is due to this or
that. Shankland dismissed the patterns as due to "temperature", but
without any proof as such. You say it is some kind of systematic
error. But firstly you don't look at Miller's most important data
sets, from Mt. Wilson. Even Shankland at least reviewed the correct
data sets, though he "cherry picked" only those data sheets by which he
could compose a verbal argument. Secondly, and more importantly,
neither the Shankland critique, nor your critique, addressed the
SYSTEMATIC SIDEREAL-DAY VARIATION IN THE AXIS OF ETHER-DRIFT, APPARENT
DURING ALL FOUR SEASONAL EPOCHS. The pattern was systematic, as MIller
noted repeatedly, as I show in my papers on Miller as well. When the
data are organized by civil-clock time, no pattern exists. When
organized by sidereal-clock (galactic) time, the pattern appears, and
is the same for all four epochs. There's simply no way you can use
math-arguments to overthrow such a pattern, especially since it has
already been confirmed by others.
The Cleveland experiments, pre-Mt.Wilson or post-Mt.Wilson, are not
significant for the question of ether-drift on a number of counts.
Firstly, as mentioned, they were mostly calibration experiments -- can
you cite a publication somewhere which reports on those post-Mt.Wilson
experiments in Cleveland? Are you sure you do not have, by some
accident, the data sheets from 1927 of Michelson-Pease-Pearson? ( If
so, I'd like to get a copy of them!) I would ask, where did you get
your set of Miller data sheets? The only ones I know about include the
full sets from Mt. Wilson, so it seems strange to me that you'd get
only the 1927 data sheets, but not the others from 1925 and 1926 -- I
searched both the Miller and Shankland Archives, plus materials from
Einstein's archives in Jerusalem, and found only one or two of his data
sheets. An unpublished interview with Shankland suggested he
(Shankland) had burned them. With that alarming possibility, I pushed
one of the Case Physics professors to undertake a search in some old
rooms where Miller's stuff had been stored for years, collecting dust
-- and he found them, turning them over to the Case Archive
department. I had copies made of the full data sets -- over 1000
pages. So how did you get possession of only the 1927 data?
As Miller wrote in his 1933 paper (p.228):
"More than half of [my 200,000] readings were made in the Mount Wilson
observations of 1925 and 1926. ... 12,800 single measures of the
velocity of ether-drift and 25,600 single determinations of the apex of
this motion."
These were in April, August and September of 1925, and February of
1926. NOT in August of 1927.
There is a reason why the Mt. Wilson experiments yielded good positive
results, and nearly all other such experiments did not -- it is because
the altitude of the experiment above sea-level influences the result,
due to Earth-entrainment (slowing down) of the Ether. I discuss this
fully in my papers, and so won't repeat it here. The original
Michelson-Morely experiment, the Morley-Miller experiments and the
Miller experiments outside of Mt. Wilson were all performed in
low-altitude Cleveland, often inside the stone structure of the Case
Physics building. The MM experiment also took place in a basement
location, and Miller demonstrated that only by going to higher
altitudes and also removing all dense materials at the light-beam path
-- the metal or heavy wood covers as used by so many others -- would
the ether-drift show itself more easily. Miller did the high-altitude
experiments and got a postive result. Same with
Michelson-Pease-Pearson, and a few others. Galaev more recently
confirmed it. How long will modern physics refuse to look at this
issue with open eyes and intelligent, fair-minded critique? Sorry to
say, Tom, your analysis is faulty on a number of levels, and does not
touch Miller's findings and conclusions anymore than the Shankland
hit-article did.
It is a pity you did not consult with the advocates
of ether-drift prior to undertaking your analysis, as it could have
saved you a lot of time, and perhaps guided you to analyze the proper
set of data, from Mt. Wilson. But I still don't see how your method
can do more than point out the obvious, that the signal is often buried
in the noise. Lots of scientific problems suffer from this difficulty,
but progress nevertheless towards deeper understandings.
There is more which could be said, but it is late, and I'm sure you'll
have a reply to what's here already. I suggest firstly to review my
papers on the subject, so I won't necessarily be repeating myself.
Regards,
James DeMeo
Dear Tom Roberts,
If I could summarize again:
1) You analyzed an apparently unpublished set of data from one of
Miller's tests in Cleveland, when the most serious data which requires
attention is from his Mt. Wilson experiments. I'm sure one could find
unpublished data from Michelson as well, or from Einstein's work -- it
may have historical significance, but is not the point of discussion if
you wish to refute what provides a foundation for much of new interest
in ether and ether-drift. I have no idea why Glen Deen gave you this
data set, instead of something from the Mt. Wilson experiments. Maybe
he can clarify this.
2) The tests in Cleveland would very likely have produced a signal far
below that of the Mt. Wilson experiments, given the effect of altitude
-- higher altitudes produce higher ether-drift velocities, as
documented by Galaev. Therefore, whatever your critique of the
Cleveland 1927 experiments were, they would not apply, or apply only
less-so to the Mt. Wilson experiments of 1925-26. You cannot presume
to assert the "signal to noise" levels were the same for both sets of
experiments. That's an unproven assumption.
3) Even if we assume, the variance within the measurements for any one
of the four seasonal epochs at Mt. Wilson was large, to rest upon that
observation and go no farther is to miss the forest for the trees.
Larger patterns in data sets often are not apparent or ammenable to
analysis via statistical methodology, but rather require dynamical
methods of analysis, or sometimes graphical or
geographical-astrocartographical methods. For example:
4) I did not mean to imply that low-altitude ether-drift experiments
would yield "no signal" at all. They do, but apparently of a reduced
intensity. Consequently, we might ask if the August 1927 data which
you analyzed yielded a variation over sidereal-clock coordinates? And
if so, is this variation along the same sidereal hour axis as what
Miller noted for the Mt. Wilson experiments, even if the velocity
determination would be at a lower level? If so, that would be in
keeping with his overall theory and findings. Miller's pre-Mt.Wilson
tests in Cleveland DID occasionally show similar vectors, as did the
Morley-Miller and even the Michelson-Morley experiment. Yes, he did a
lot of testing and control experiments, as Einstein was at the time
proclaiming (without evidence) that Miller's work was the consequence
of "thermal artifacts". So he did a lot of work to show, exactly, how
the interferometer would react to both small and large external heating
effects, and precautions were undertaken, such as shielding the
interferometer arms with insulation, and so on. NONE of those
experiments -- Michelson-Morley, Morley-Miller, or Miller in Cleveland
ever produced a fully "null" or "zero" result, which by itself is
significant. But the data was best at Mt. Wilson, and likewise
Michelson-Pease-Pearson also got their best result at Mt. Wilson.
Miller addressed this consideration in the 1933 paper, and
Michelson-Morley were also aware of their own slight positive result,
stating in the 1887 paper the need to perform the experiment over other
seasonal periods -- which they never did. Only Miller did so. The
fact that all four seasonal epochs of the Mt. Wilson experiments
yielded similar sidereal-hour vectors for the axis of drift, and that
this also was the same (though reduced) axis which could be extracted
from the original Michelson-Morley experiment, is THE significant
consideration, even if the velocity determinations were slightly
variable. This is what we call a highly-structured pattern in the
data. The fact that Galaev later found a similar axis of drift in his
work, and the seasonal variations in "dark matter wind" also show a
similar pattern, is "icing on the cake" so to speak.
5) High "signal to noise" ratios plague other data sets from natural
phenomena, such as climate patterns. Daily precipitation is a function
of solar heating and shifting of wind and pressure patterns. But if we
look for variations in precipitation as an indicator of solar heating,
it requires a lot of years of data before we get a climatic curve which
approximates the smooth latitudinal shifting of the sun's location, and
hence, solar heating of the lower atmosphere. Over shorter periods,
rainfall quantities may be extremely variable with large quantities one
day or week, nothing the next day or week, and so on over the years,
with some years very wet, others in drought. If we presume ignorance
of how solar heating works to stimulate rains, we would be hard pressed
to find this pattern in all the "noise" of daily precipitation
variation. We would in fact only find the pattern by recording
precipitation over the year, and then averaging the data by week or
month. Only then, you get a pattern which is valuable, and allows some
degree of confidence and prediction of when a "rainy season" or "dry
season" will occur. Likewise also, I would imagine, with the
determinations of anisotropy in 3-deg.K. in open space -- a lot of
variation, no way to make "statistical analysis" but when it is plotted
on a map -- or along a simple graphical ordination representing
sidereal hour -- it makes a pattern which is important to consider.
As noted, I do have copies of all of Miller's data sheets, being the
guy who stimilated their re-discovery from dusty storage rooms.
You
mention only the one data sheet of Figure 8 from his 1933 paper, which
showed the results of 19 turns of the interferometer over about a
15-minute period. This is like, extracting rainfall records for one
month of one year, exclaiming there is "no solar-related pattern" and
ignoring all the rainfall data from many other months and years. Sure,
look at only one data sheet, and clear determinations may be
insufficient. But really, your DSP analysis was not of that data
sheet, nor of the hundreds of other data sheets from Mt. Wilson.I have no interests to second-guess Miller's methods, and your claims
really don't suggest any serious reason why one should be concerned.
Nobody including Michelson had any problem with Miller's methods or
findings at the time when he was doing his work, other than Einstein,
who was no expert in the ether-drift methods. In fact Miller was the
student of Morley, and learned the methods as handed down from
Michelson and Michelson-Morley. You presume to have us believe you
know more about it than they did, even though you haven't undertaken an
analysis of the very same published data from which Miller's
conclusions were derived. And all the other validating experiments,
you simply ignore. Sorry to say, this is simply insufficient.
Regards,
James DeMeo
Roberts refused to use the all important 1925/1926 papers which did prove the ether drift.
As such his analysis is totally useless.
As for the second paper you presented here, by Dr. Paulo Correa, Dr. Dayton Miller already addressed the issues a long time ago:
Miller's observations were also consistent through the long period of his measurements. He noted, when his data were plotted on sidereal time, they produced "...a very striking consistency of their principal characteristics...for azimuth and magnitude... as though they were related to a common cause... The observed effect is dependent upon sidereal time and
is independent of diurnal and seasonal changes of temperature and other terrestrial causes, and...is a cosmical phenomenon." (Miller 1933, p.231)
"The trouble with Prof. Einstein is that he knows
nothing about my results." Dr. Miller said. "He has
been saying for thirty years that the interferometer
experiments in Cleveland showed negative results. We
never said they gave negative results, and they did
not in fact give negative results. He ought to give
me credit for knowing that temperature differences
would affect the results. He wrote to me in November
suggesting this.
I am not so simple as to make no
allowance for temperature." (Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper, 27 Jan. 1926)