HURRICANE HARVEY, ENGINEERED STORM?

Quote from: RocketSauce on September 14, 2017, 12:21:47 PM

how about... had they not developed the land in the first place... any one consider that?

Quote from: markjo on September 14, 2017, 12:54:41 PM

Exactly.  Who is stupid enough to build on a hurricane prone flood plain in the first place?

I'm pretty sure when they settled Houston in 1836 nobody had a clue of the environmental consequences.

So you're saying that people still hadn't figured out by 1836 that coastal cities tend to get hit hardest by storms? 

I hope that you realize that I'm just messing with you.

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 14, 2017, 01:23:48 PM

Quote from: RocketSauce on September 14, 2017, 12:21:47 PM

how about... had they not developed the land in the first place... any one consider that?

Quote from: markjo on September 14, 2017, 12:54:41 PM

Exactly.  Who is stupid enough to build on a hurricane prone flood plain in the first place?

I'm pretty sure when they settled Houston in 1836 nobody had a clue of the environmental consequences.

So you're saying that people still hadn't figured out by 1836 that coastal cities tend to get hit hardest by storms? 

I hope that you realize that I'm just messing with you.

 

Quote from: Heiwa on September 14, 2017, 08:00:36 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 14, 2017, 07:35:29 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 13, 2017, 11:00:51 PM

Quote from: markjo on September 13, 2017, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 13, 2017, 07:48:19 AM

Well, it seems Texas has no rules to prevent flooding of areas of new habitation. You can build wherever you like and gutters are not really required anywhere, as the place is mostly a desert anyway.

Hmm...  Maybe you should read the FAQ.

Quote from: https://www.hcfcd.org/faqs/

What is a floodplain?

FEMA defines a floodplain as "any land area that is susceptible to being inundated by water from any source." In Harris County, a floodplain is generally defined as an area susceptible to being flooded due to either a channel's capacity being exceeded or due to a tidal storm surge. See the Flash interactive overview for more information.

What is meant by the term 1% (100-year) Floodplain?

Also known as the Base Flood, it is an area of land that has a 1% chance of being inundated by floodwaters from a bayou or creek in a given year. The 1% (100-year) flood event is a regulatory standard used to administer floodplain management programs and the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP), and to set building requirements for new construction. Statistically, the 1% (100-year) flood has a 26% chance of occurring during a 30-year period of time – the length of many mortgages. See the Flash interactive overview for more information.

Is construction permitted within the 1% (100-year) floodplain?

Restricted development is permitted in the 1% (100-year) floodplain. The floodplain administrators at each municipality within Harris County are responsible for enforcing floodplain management rules and regulations that govern construction in the floodplain.

Thanks, so restricted development is permitted in the 1% floodplain, if your mortage is <30 years, but that development was destroyed at Houston due to lack of gutter channels a few years after construction. Yes, FEMA is a joke. Just look at its top brass.

You are just plain lying again. You can't make the claim that gutters have anything to do with it.  You don't the slightest clue what the total capacity of those gutters you keep talking about.

You show us a single example of a major coastal city anywhere in the world that could handle 1.25 meters of rain in four days. Let me help you...you can't so stop making shit up and do some real research.

Mike

Well, it was just bad luck! A 1% (100-year) flood or rain fall (make your choice) with a 26% chance of occurring during a 30-year period of time just happened, when they had filled the wet lowlands with cheap buildings.

Mike, why do you always support all nonsense you learn somewhere - in the gutters?

You're the one making shit up with all that nonsense about gutters.

As if gutters would have helped over a meter of rain and a 10+ foot storm surge.

Mike

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems.

The only problem with gutters is that they require a sufficient change in elevation in order to provide adequate drainage.  Houston is too flat to provide that sufficient elevation change, so drainage is not adequate for significant rain events.

Chief weathercaster Lonnie Quinn of CBS Station WCBS in New York City explains why flooding is such a big problem in Houston:

There are a lot of factors at play. For one: Houston's elevation. The city is relatively flat and is barely above sea level. Downtown is only about 50 feet above sea level, and there's only about a four-foot change between the highest and lowest parts of downtown. That means when rain falls, it has nowhere to go, and takes a long time to drain out.

AAAAAHAHAHHAHA!!!!


You guys are actually saying that rain gutters would have saved Houston?

I Was just skimming but... Really?


Thank you... I needed that!

I could be wrong, but I think that he's confusing gutters with storm drains and Houston for a city with actual terrain.

but even if it is storm drains... Unless they are pumping the the water to like... mexico (because that is downhill from Houston)

Storm Drains need a place to drain... and if where they are draining is flooded... then... never mind, i'm on a flat earth site

I could be wrong, but I think that he's confusing gutters with storm drains and Houston for a city with actual terrain.

A gutter is, AFAIAC, a channel dug in the ground fitted around roads, houses, fields etc, to drain off rain water. And it seems it rained on Houston.
I have not mentioned storm drains and I do not know what it is. A storm is violent weather (to avoid at sea) and a drain is a channel, pipe, trench, etc. but a storm drain? Sorry, I cannot help.

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lived there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

You do uderstand the difference between this and more than a meter of rain in a few days, right?

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

You do uderstand the difference between this and more than a meter of rain in a few days, right?

Of course, I also lived five years at Yokohama, Japan, big port, with five seasons - winter, spring, rain, summer and autumn. Big tyfons/storms/hurricanes blowing in regularly and sometimes an earthquake took place during the rain. Once during such a combination I drove my car into a deep gutter at the road side and got stuck. But friendly Japanese lifted my car back on the road.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on September 16, 2017, 09:57:51 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

You do uderstand the difference between this and more than a meter of rain in a few days, right?

Of course, I also lived five years at Yokohama, Japan, big port, with five seasons - winter, spring, rain, summer and autumn. Big tyfons/storms/hurricanes blowing in regularly and sometimes an earthquake took place during the rain. Once during such a combination I drove my car into a deep gutter at the road side and got stuck. But friendly Japanese lifted my car back on the road.

Amazing irrelevant story.

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 10:09:30 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on September 16, 2017, 09:57:51 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

You do uderstand the difference between this and more than a meter of rain in a few days, right?

Of course, I also lived five years at Yokohama, Japan, big port, with five seasons - winter, spring, rain, summer and autumn. Big tyfons/storms/hurricanes blowing in regularly and sometimes an earthquake took place during the rain. Once during such a combination I drove my car into a deep gutter at the road side and got stuck. But friendly Japanese lifted my car back on the road.

Amazing irrelevant story.

No, it rains in Yokohama since 1000's of years ... and Houston should learn from it.

No, it rains in Yokohama since 1000's of years ... and Houston should learn from it.

Are you saying that Yokohama never gets flooded?

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

Every one of those have annual rainfall of less than a meter.

Obviously I have too spell things out for you since you seem unable to figure out what the question was.

Shoot me a coastal city that can handle a 1.25 meters of rain in four days.  I don't know why I bother because you'll just make up some stupid shut and not actually answer the question.

Mike

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

Every one of those have annual rainfall of less than a meter.

Obviously I have too spell things out for you since you seem unable to figure out what the question was.

Shoot me a coastal city that can handle a 1.25 meters of rain in four days.  I don't know why I bother because you'll just make up some stupid shut and not actually answer the question.

Mike

You sound like an angry twirp!

It seems Condoleeza Rice and GWB were in the gutter. They'd had too much to drink. No wonder Texas got flooded. Something else about gutters. You can read all about it on my website. I offer a 1M€ Challenge for anyone to prove me wrong. So far, no takers.

How'd I do?

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 02:15:06 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

Every one of those have annual rainfall of less than a meter.

Obviously I have too spell things out for you since you seem unable to figure out what the question was.

Shoot me a coastal city that can handle a 1.25 meters of rain in four days.  I don't know why I bother because you'll just make up some stupid shut and not actually answer the question.

Mike

You sound like an angry twirp!

It seems Condoleeza Rice and GWB were in the gutter. They'd had too much to drink. No wonder Texas got flooded. Something else about gutters. You can read all about it on my website. I offer a 1M€ Challenge for anyone to prove me wrong. So far, no takers.

How'd I do?

I started to read your post without looking at who posted it, and I thought it was an actual Heiwa post. That's how well you did.

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 02:15:06 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: MicroBeta on September 16, 2017, 08:49:26 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on September 15, 2017, 09:36:06 AM

Yes, properly installed gutters that could drain off a meter of rain would have saved Houston from all problems. Why do you get so upset? Are you against improving life on earth?

Bullshit!  Show me one major coastal city where that's true. 

Mike

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Schiedam, Vlaardingen - I lives there once and it rained 51 weeks out of 52.

Every one of those have annual rainfall of less than a meter.

Obviously I have too spell things out for you since you seem unable to figure out what the question was.

Shoot me a coastal city that can handle a 1.25 meters of rain in four days.  I don't know why I bother because you'll just make up some stupid shut and not actually answer the question.

Mike

You sound like an angry twirp!

It seems Condoleeza Rice and GWB were in the gutter. They'd had too much to drink. No wonder Texas got flooded. Something else about gutters. You can read all about it on my website. I offer a 1M€ Challenge for anyone to prove me wrong. So far, no takers.

How'd I do?

Spot on....and bleepin' funny too.

Quote from: Heiwa on September 16, 2017, 12:45:27 PM

No, it rains in Yokohama since 1000's of years ... and Houston should learn from it.

Are you saying that Yokohama never gets flooded?

Yes, Yokohama is younger than Houston. 1865 it was just a fishing village surrounded by rice fields. Today it is the biggest city in Japan. Bigger than Tokyo (because Tokyo is many towns). Completely destroyed 1923 by an earthquake and May 1945 by US napalm carpet bombings. But no flooding! There are plenty canals to ensure that rainwater flows into Tokyo bay and the Pacific Ocean.

What happened to their gutters? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-06/japan-floods-almost-500000-asked-to-evacuate/8684472

What happened to their gutters? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-06/japan-floods-almost-500000-asked-to-evacuate/8684472

Fukuoka is on Kyushu in the south and got 800 mm of rain one day. Some gutters overflooded. Happens all the time. Japan is prepared for it.

But you just said properly designed gutters don't "overflood".
So you now agree gutters can't be designed for non standard rains. Got it.

. . . . . I also lived five years at Yokohama, Japan, big port, with five seasons - winter, spring, rain, summer and autumn.

 

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on September 16, 2017, 06:06:06 PM

What happened to their gutters? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-06/japan-floods-almost-500000-asked-to-evacuate/8684472

Fukuoka is on Kyushu in the south and got 800 mm of rain one day. Some gutters overflooded. Happens all the time. Japan is prepared for it.

Exactly. Same with Houston.

But you just said properly designed gutters don't "overflood".
So you now agree gutters can't be designed for non standard rains. Got it.

No, I didn't say anything like that.

Gutter channels of any size tend to be blocked by debris and must be regularly cleaned. If not they may overflow.

Listen, if the Gutters on their homes would have been designed right... then the streets wouldn't have flooded... DUH!!!

So I looked this up, it looks like it was a bit more of a disaster than, "Some gutters overflooded".  I'm sure those 11 dead folks would agree that it was a bit more than that.

Parts of Fukuoka prefecture were hit by 774 millimetres of rain in nine hours on Wednesday, more than two times the amount of rain that falls in a normal July, NHK said.


Japan floods: 11 missing, 500,000 to evacuate after days of torrential rain in Fukuoka and Oita
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-06/japan-floods-almost-500000-asked-to-evacuate/8684472

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on September 16, 2017, 06:06:06 PM

What happened to their gutters? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-06/japan-floods-almost-500000-asked-to-evacuate/8684472

Fukuoka is on Kyushu in the south and got 800 mm of rain one day. Some gutters overflooded. Happens all the time. Japan is prepared for it.

What sort of crack are you smoking?  The flooding in Fukuoka was catastrophic.  Nobody is prepared for that much rain and Japan certainly wasn't.  The reason they weren't ready is because it's not possible to prepare so much rain in such a short time.

You obviously didn't read the article because the damage was huge.  I don't know the final death toll but it was over 30, hundreds of homes destroyed or damaged.  How is this an example of a city that can handle a meter of rain in a very short time.

Come on.  Admit it.  No city is or can be prepared to receive a meter of rain in a very short time.

Mike

How long is it going to take for you to realize who/what you are dealing with Micro? There is a single person holding the desenting view. He has all but admitted to well designed drainage systems being inundated with extreme rain systems, yet continues to hold fast that Houston flooded only because of their drainage system and not the sheer amount of rain it received.

Just for fun though; Heiwa, how much rain did Houston receive from Hurricane Harvey? Simple question, should be able to be answered with only a number.