Evolution

^^^LOL^^^

As I said to you "evolutionists" since we are throwing everyone in a box like that.

Believe what you want , but don't claim it as fact.

Fyi, I have said it before, my issue with evolution has nothing to do with my beliefs elsewhere

I'm not throwing YOU in a box, I said that it's a common thing creationists say. I hate this categorization thing. I'm not sure what your issue with evolution is if speciation through natural selection has been directly observed, and if evolution is backed up by an extensive fossil record.

Evolution suggests something evolves to better adapt to its environment in an advantageous way.

So answer me this.... What possible purpose are any of these freaks and why did evolution bring them this far. What is the point?



In seriousness I ask anyone who does not believe in evolution to answer the question why are natives to Africa black and Europe white? Bit of a coincidence that both bodies seem perfectly suited to their respective environments....

The book of Mormon has the answers you seek my friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamanite

Quote from: TotesReptilian on May 02, 2017, 12:22:04 PM

Time to cut through all the bullshit. Here is direct proof of evolution. You can see it in action over the course of 11 days.

Yes, adaptation...Micro evolution whatever you want to call it.

So tell me. What is the difference between micro evolution and evolution?

But you don't need highly educated scientist to tell you this. Any "old Farmers" can tell you the same... As well as a sheep is a sheep and a duck is a duck.

And a dog is a dog, and a wolf is a wolf, and coyote is a coyote, and a chihuahua is a chihuahua, and a great dane is a great dane. Right? Or... wait... hmmm...

Can keep trying to loop macro evolution with adaptation all you want, but there is simply a belief for such thing, not evidence.

Believe what you want, just don't claim it as fact

Request denied. It is a fact.

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 06:53:30 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 02, 2017, 03:57:15 AM

Quote from: napoleon on May 02, 2017, 03:43:14 AM

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 12:59:57 AM

Why is there only a single intelligent species on the planet?

If I may rephrase Crutoniusses question (I think he meant it this way as well):
Why is there only a single self consious species on the planet?

Lots of other species are self conscious and sentient animals besides us: Bottle nose Dolphins, Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Elephants, orcas, pigs etc..
However we do seem to have a greater mental capacity and IQ than these, but they are still self aware.

They are somewhat intelligent yes. But the difference between our intelligence and theirs is like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it. Maybe dolphins are a lot smarter than us. But they're not nuking us from orbit any time soon.

Please note I'm not anti evolution at all. I just haven't heard a good explanation on this intelligence gap yet.

Evolution does support intelligence as a survival strategy but have you ever seen such a singular disparity of this magnitude in all the animal kingdom? It would be like if spiders evolved the capability of producing venom. But one single species of spider evolved to hunt its prey with tomahawk missiles.

I'm no biology expert, but these were an interesting read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_human_intelligence#Models

My take on it is that the capacity for complex language, and the opportunity to pass down knowledge to successive generations is what makes our intelligence truly unique. If you take away those two things, are we really that much more intelligent than some other animals like dolphins, chimps, and octopi (octopuses... octopussies... octopeds...)?

Wrestling with the spell checker huh?  I do that too.  I know I'm right even when the squiggly line says otherwise.

I'm aware of those factors.  Dogs have all of that going for them as well as humans actually forcing evolution on them through selective breeding.  It's possible that the difference in intelligence between us and dolphins seems far greater than it really is, that there's a tipping point in brain power where a society pops up.  To add more weirdness to this is the fact that primates have actually spawned several subspecies that were probably on their way to intelligence.  Then they just vanished.  There's lots of reasons for a species to go extinct.  In a few cases people have theorized that they lost a war to us Homo Sapiens.  I wonder if there's something in us that makes us rage out at something intelligent that doesn't look quite like us?  Maybe anytime some other animal with intelligence pops us we try to exterminate it?

Evolution has been a polarizing topic for quite a while now.  So I want to reiterate that I'm not a creationist.  I'm not railing against evolution here.  The theory is very elegant.
 It's just this one aspect seems less than intuitive to me.  It could easily be something I'm not getting.

Evolution has been a polarizing topic for quite a while now.  So I want to reiterate that I'm not a creationist.  I'm not railing against evolution here.  The theory is very elegant.

Lol....You should be in politics with an answer like that.

Don't worry, we shall make a public marker for you, so no one confuses you for a creationist, and you have a golden stamp of approval for evolution.

You will get to be considered intelligent, advanced...And...Get to go to their cool parties.

Rock on.

Request denied. It is a fact.

Lol....You heard le capitaine..

You forgot to stomp your foot chief...Or maybe you did and I missed it.

Bhs is mad 

Quote from: TotesReptilian on May 02, 2017, 12:35:30 PM

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 06:53:30 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 02, 2017, 03:57:15 AM

Quote from: napoleon on May 02, 2017, 03:43:14 AM

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 12:59:57 AM

Why is there only a single intelligent species on the planet?

If I may rephrase Crutoniusses question (I think he meant it this way as well):
Why is there only a single self consious species on the planet?

Lots of other species are self conscious and sentient animals besides us: Bottle nose Dolphins, Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Elephants, orcas, pigs etc..
However we do seem to have a greater mental capacity and IQ than these, but they are still self aware.

They are somewhat intelligent yes. But the difference between our intelligence and theirs is like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it. Maybe dolphins are a lot smarter than us. But they're not nuking us from orbit any time soon.

Please note I'm not anti evolution at all. I just haven't heard a good explanation on this intelligence gap yet.

Evolution does support intelligence as a survival strategy but have you ever seen such a singular disparity of this magnitude in all the animal kingdom? It would be like if spiders evolved the capability of producing venom. But one single species of spider evolved to hunt its prey with tomahawk missiles.

I'm no biology expert, but these were an interesting read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_human_intelligence#Models

My take on it is that the capacity for complex language, and the opportunity to pass down knowledge to successive generations is what makes our intelligence truly unique. If you take away those two things, are we really that much more intelligent than some other animals like dolphins, chimps, and octopi (octopuses... octopussies... octopeds...)?

Wrestling with the spell checker huh?  I do that too.  I know I'm right even when the squiggly line says otherwise.

Rage against the machine! Ain't no squiggly line gonna tell me what to do.

I'm aware of those factors.  Dogs have all of that going for them as well as humans actually forcing evolution on them through selective breeding.  It's possible that the difference in intelligence between us and dolphins seems far greater than it really is, that there's a tipping point in brain power where a society pops up.

We tend to compare the collective accomplishments of thousands of generations of humans with the accomplishments of one generation of dolphins. Dolphins can't pass down knowledge to the next generation to the same sophisticated extent that we can. I'd argue that that is the key difference. If you raised a generation of humans in complete isolation to the knowledge of the modern world and of previous generations, how much more intelligent than animals would they look?

To add more weirdness to this is the fact that primates have actually spawned several subspecies that were probably on their way to intelligence.  Then they just vanished.  There's lots of reasons for a species to go extinct.  In a few cases people have theorized that they lost a war to us Homo Sapiens.  I wonder if there's something in us that makes us rage out at something intelligent that doesn't look quite like us?  Maybe anytime some other animal with intelligence pops us we try to exterminate it?

Evolution has been a polarizing topic for quite a while now.  So I want to reiterate that I'm not a creationist.  I'm not railing against evolution here.  The theory is very elegant.
 It's just this one aspect seems less than intuitive to me.  It could easily be something I'm not getting.

I agree. It is rather mysterious. I would argue that this opens the door to belief in a deity guiding evolution to produce humans, if you are so inclined.

Quote from: TotesReptilian on May 02, 2017, 12:22:04 PM

Time to cut through all the bullshit. Here is direct proof of evolution. You can see it in action over the course of 11 days.

Yes, adaptation...Micro evolution whatever you want to call it. But you don't need highly educated scientist to tell you this. Any "old Farmers" can tell you the same... As well as a sheep is a sheep and a duck is a duck.

Can keep trying to loop macro evolution with adaptation all you want, but there is simply a belief for such thing, not evidence.

Believe what you want, just don't claim it as fact

you do not believe in evolution because you claim there is no evidence for that.
first you are wrong, look up the fossil record.

and my question is for you, why do you believe in a being that created everything?
what evidence do you have for that believe?

Evolution suggests something evolves to better adapt to its environment in an advantageous way.

So answer me this.... What possible purpose are any of these freaks and why did evolution bring them this far. What is the point?



In seriousness I ask anyone who does not believe in evolution to answer the question why are natives to Africa black and Europe white? Bit of a coincidence that both bodies seem perfectly suited to their respective environments....

you claim that the skincolor of the humans is created by god?

where in you holy book is that written down?
where is the text where the creater made the different skincolors?

Quote from: TotesReptilian on May 02, 2017, 01:10:31 PM

Request denied. It is a fact.

Lol....You heard le capitaine..

You forgot to stomp your foot chief...Or maybe you did and I missed it.

I'll have a discussion about evolution if you want. But I'm not going to pretend it isn't already a settled matter. If I am foot-stomping, then so are you, claiming that evolution isn't a fact. The difference is that you are foot-stomping in the face of the entire scientific community and tons of evidence. Evolution hasn't been a controversial topic outside of religiously motivated denialists for decades.

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 01:32:41 PM

Evolution has been a polarizing topic for quite a while now.  So I want to reiterate that I'm not a creationist.  I'm not railing against evolution here.  The theory is very elegant.

Lol....You should be in politics with an answer like that.

Don't worry, we shall make a public marker for you, so no one confuses you for a creationist, and you have a golden stamp of approval for evolution.

You will get to be considered intelligent, advanced...And...Get to go to their cool parties.

Rock on.

Overly diplomatic?  Possibly.  I prefer discussions to fist fights though.  In a topic that's typically all or nothing it's important to make it known that you're in it for the nuance, the subtle shades of gray.

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 02, 2017, 01:12:20 AM

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 12:59:57 AM

Why is there only a single intelligent species on the planet?

First I should make known that intelligence is relative. An ant may consider itself intelligent and just can't comprehend us. Also intelligence can also be based on survival needs. Octopi and certain birds have been shown to be able to solve problems in order to get food. The difference between us and them, is that we have been able to take ourselves out of the food chain, and so have had the past few thousand years to develop our brains.
We can even observe monkeys who are developing their own tools and using them. This gives us the insight that at some point we were monkeys just learning to use tools. These tools made hunting and shelters much easier to achieve. After generations of monkeys showing their offspring the tools, they began leaving the trees, learning how to stand on two legs and use tools as their main form of survival rather than their hands. They followed the herds of their prey over generations, and when they traveled to cold regions they made clothes. When they returned to warmer regions and still had clothes, there was no need for all their hair.
Hope this answers your question.

So, just because you realized that monkeys are intelligent, that gave you an insight and assumed we came from monkeys!

Did all other intelligent animals come from monkeys? > I'm sure you'd say no, so why assuming we did?
All animals have their own origins, or some might share the same. So, why couldn't we have our own?
Why do you intelligent people insist on degrading us to a lower level of species?

Listening to this type of thinking gives me an insight that maybe monkeys could've came from some humans with null for brains - those that did not appreciate what God has given them of intelligence!

Let's clear this one up...we did not evolve from monkeys....ok
We share a common ancestor.
How do we know this?...through the study of genetics. We share 98% of our DNA with them, so we are a close relative, but did not evolve from them.

Quote from: Shifter on May 02, 2017, 01:07:04 AM

In seriousness I ask anyone who does not believe in evolution to answer the question why are natives to Africa black and Europe white? Bit of a coincidence that both bodies seem perfectly suited to their respective environments....

you claim that the skincolor of the humans is created by god?

where in you holy book is that written down?
where is the text where the creater made the different skincolors?

No. I claim our appearances and characteristics are a product of our environment over many thousands of years / generations. Africans have black skin because of the much more sunny and hot climate. Europeans have white skin because it has far less sun and less melanin is better suited to obtain Vitamin D3 through sunlight. The 'Asian eyes' are even said to be a product of their environment due to dealing with very cold winters and very hot summers together.

You totally missed my point

Lets take a look at a few things to see if we share anything in common with our 'alleged' ancestors



From Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee_genome_project

Human and chimpanzee chromosomes are very similar. The primary difference is that humans have one fewer pair of chromosomes than do other great apes. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes and other great apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes. In the human evolutionary lineage, two ancestral ape chromosomes fused at their telomeres, producing human chromosome

Why cant creationists be imaginative enough to have it both ways? You can believe we descended from Apes and in a God at the same time. Maybe God took an Ape and played around with its chromosomes a little and put it back to begin what we know is Human. In the way we both were evolved and created at the same time! 

Remember at some point, going back far enough, we all began from a single cell.

Quote from: Hannibaal on May 02, 2017, 01:53:59 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 02, 2017, 01:12:20 AM

Quote from: crutonius on May 02, 2017, 12:59:57 AM

Why is there only a single intelligent species on the planet?

First I should make known that intelligence is relative. An ant may consider itself intelligent and just can't comprehend us. Also intelligence can also be based on survival needs. Octopi and certain birds have been shown to be able to solve problems in order to get food. The difference between us and them, is that we have been able to take ourselves out of the food chain, and so have had the past few thousand years to develop our brains.
We can even observe monkeys who are developing their own tools and using them. This gives us the insight that at some point we were monkeys just learning to use tools. These tools made hunting and shelters much easier to achieve. After generations of monkeys showing their offspring the tools, they began leaving the trees, learning how to stand on two legs and use tools as their main form of survival rather than their hands. They followed the herds of their prey over generations, and when they traveled to cold regions they made clothes. When they returned to warmer regions and still had clothes, there was no need for all their hair.
Hope this answers your question.

So, just because you realized that monkeys are intelligent, that gave you an insight and assumed we came from monkeys!

Did all other intelligent animals come from monkeys? > I'm sure you'd say no, so why assuming we did?
All animals have their own origins, or some might share the same. So, why couldn't we have our own?
Why do you intelligent people insist on degrading us to a lower level of species?

Listening to this type of thinking gives me an insight that maybe monkeys could've came from some humans with null for brains - those that did not appreciate what God has given them of intelligence!

Let's clear this one up...we did not evolve from monkeys....ok
We share a common ancestor.
How do we know this?...through the study of genetics. We share 98% of our DNA with them, so we are a close relative, but did not evolve from them.

You read my opening questions but you did not read the following ones!

The other question was; did we evolve from that common ancestor or did some humans descend to such species (d-evolved)?

Quote from: User324 on May 02, 2017, 10:05:43 AM

Quote from: Babyhighspeed on May 02, 2017, 08:39:49 AM

Being able to recognize ones self in a mirror ( which a dolphin supposedly can) is much different that being sentient or "self aware".

@Bhs and @Hannibal
How would you guys define "sentient" and "consciousness"?
IF all our thoughts etc. were created in our brain by neural cells - would consciousness be possible?

Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive, and to have subjective experiences. > Awareness is then developed - sense data can be confirmed by a being without necessarily implying understanding. > Consciousness – an ignited, robust, internally stable awareness of one's own sense of values derived through abstract thought processes that are capable of adapting to and integrating with functionally similar processes in a wider range.

Reaching that level of awareness, one have become a creator of his own consciousness – you are no longer just a sentient being – you have evolved to have become a conscious being; capable of processing your experiences and not being subjective to it.

Instincts are God given abilities to all sentient beings to give them awareness, while consciousness is our acceptance and appreciation to what God has given us of abilities and values!

How do you know that other animals aren't conscious? Remember Koko? The gorilla that was taught how to speak sign language, not just copy hand movements, but actually learn the language and use it. She knows up to 1000 words and can speak at the level of a 3 year old child. She can process her surrounding and make decisions on what she wants to say to her caregivers. Her first sign she used was "queen" because she knew that she was getting more special attention than any of the other gorillas. She even became sad when she was told of Robin William's death, as she remembered the time they had met.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/koko-the-talking-gorilla-sign-language-francine-patterson/402307/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723584/She-extremely-sad-Sign-language-gorilla-Koko-close-tears-following-news-Robin-Williams-death-13-years-video-captured-two-fast-friends.html
(Sorry for only giving two sources, I'm sure if you care you can find many more examples)

Quote from: Hannibaal on May 02, 2017, 11:46:06 AM

Quote from: User324 on May 02, 2017, 10:05:43 AM

Quote from: Babyhighspeed on May 02, 2017, 08:39:49 AM

Being able to recognize ones self in a mirror ( which a dolphin supposedly can) is much different that being sentient or "self aware".

@Bhs and @Hannibal
How would you guys define "sentient" and "consciousness"?
IF all our thoughts etc. were created in our brain by neural cells - would consciousness be possible?

Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive, and to have subjective experiences. > Awareness is then developed - sense data can be confirmed by a being without necessarily implying understanding. > Consciousness – an ignited, robust, internally stable awareness of one's own sense of values derived through abstract thought processes that are capable of adapting to and integrating with functionally similar processes in a wider range.

Reaching that level of awareness, one have become a creator of his own consciousness – you are no longer just a sentient being – you have evolved to have become a conscious being; capable of processing your experiences and not being subjective to it.

Instincts are God given abilities to all sentient beings to give them awareness, while consciousness is our acceptance and appreciation to what God has given us of abilities and values!

How do you know that other animals aren't conscious? Remember Koko? The gorilla that was taught how to speak sign language, not just copy hand movements, but actually learn the language and use it. She knows up to 1000 words and can speak at the level of a 3 year old child. She can process her surrounding and make decisions on what she wants to say to her caregivers. Her first sign she used was "queen" because she knew that she was getting more special attention than any of the other gorillas. She even became sad when she was told of Robin William's death, as she remembered the time they had met.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/koko-the-talking-gorilla-sign-language-francine-patterson/402307/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723584/She-extremely-sad-Sign-language-gorilla-Koko-close-tears-following-news-Robin-Williams-death-13-years-video-captured-two-fast-friends.html
(Sorry for only giving two sources, I'm sure if you care you can find many more examples)

Oh, I've seen many intelligent creatures in aqua park - they even taught them to kiss you on the cheek! 

But, what does that have to do with consciousness?

The "Animal Consciousness" debate has been going on for ever, and different scientists have different opinions on the subject!

A New York University neuro-scientist Joe LeDoux, one of the most vocal of a group of researchers who think non-human animal consciousness isn’t relevant in experiments or even scientifically resolvable, once said, “The basic idea is about how many assumptions scientists are willing to make about consciousness.”

To dive in a deep field where famous scientists and philosophers have failed to conclude, is like blowing in a hollow object!

The way I see it, though;-

Animals are subjective to their instincts, and follow a law that secures their needs.
Humans can evolve and develop a conscious that can free them from being subjective to their instincts, and become in control of their needs, feelings and behavior.

When a man doesn't have control over his sexual and feeding activities > they say he's an animal or eats like a pig!
When a person doesn't have control over his life; he lives in chaos, which leads to destruction. - How can you develop a consciousness in a chaotic state of awareness?

Consciousness is the highest state of awareness and without consciousness we'd go back to the jungle and live with the animals by our instincts and by the jungle law!

Just some random thoughts after reading your post @Hannibaal:

The way I see it, though;-

Animals are subjective to their instincts, and follow a law that secures their needs.

Actually, humans do that, too, pretty much all of the time.
If you think about it, most things you do happen unconsious (e.g. walking, driving, eating, etc. It all does not require active thinking (--> you can think about totally different stuff while doing such activities)).

Humans can evolve and develop a conscious that can free them from being subjective to their instincts, and become in control of their needs, feelings and behavior.

I understand what you mean, but most of the time I'd say when we think we're "free" from our instincts it's mostly an advanced conditioning due to our enviroment (society). People generally behave/dress... in the way they get the most positive response / least negative.

When a man doesn't have control over his sexual and feeding activities > they say he's an animal or eats like a pig!
When a person doesn't have control over his life; he lives in chaos, which leads to destruction. - How can you develop a consciousness in a chaotic state of awareness?

Consciousness is the highest state of awareness and without consciousness we'd go back to the jungle and live with the animals by our instincts and by the jungle law!

Aren't we just living by an advanced jungle law? You behave bad, the alpha male (police/government) punishes you--> you learn what to do and what not to do (=advanced conditioning). Well, we're probably better in balancing pros and cons of our actions, yes.

Oh, I've seen many intelligent creatures in aqua park - they even taught them to kiss you on the cheek! 

But, what does that have to do with consciousness?

the gorilla that was mention in the one post was only trained in sign language  and not in the way how to communicate in a certain way.
that has a lot to do with consciousness

The "Animal Consciousness" debate has been going on for ever, and different scientists have different opinions on the subject!

A New York University neuro-scientist Joe LeDoux, one of the most vocal of a group of researchers who think non-human animal consciousness isn’t relevant in experiments or even scientifically resolvable, once said, “The basic idea is about how many assumptions scientists are willing to make about consciousness.”

To dive in a deep field where famous scientists and philosophers have failed to conclude, is like blowing in a hollow object!

The way I see it, though;-

Animals are subjective to their instincts, and follow a law that secures their needs.
Humans can evolve and develop a conscious that can free them from being subjective to their instincts, and become in control of their needs, feelings and behavior.

When a man doesn't have control over his sexual and feeding activities > they say he's an animal or eats like a pig!
When a person doesn't have control over his life; he lives in chaos, which leads to destruction. - How can you develop a consciousness in a chaotic state of awareness?

Consciousness is the highest state of awareness and without consciousness we'd go back to the jungle and live with the animals by our instincts and by the jungle law!

if animals are only controlled by their instincts, how do you explain the behaviour of pets like dogs and cats.
if you really observe them you will find out that they not at all only controlled by their instincts, especially cats.

you think the humans are higher evolved than the animals are.
How do you than explain that only the humans destroy their environment that they are living in and killing each other for minor reasons?

There are many animals which are capable of self awareness and thinking for themselves beyond primitive instinct and there are many that run purely on instinct, much like a computer program.

My way of discerning between them is pretty rough and probably has some bad examples in it but I think if an animal can dream, it may have the intellectual capacity for free thinking. This doesn't mean with enough time you could teach them speech and calculus. It just means they aren't mindless drones running on pure instinct.

If you put 2 dogs together and have them grow up in the exact same environment and given the exact same stimulus, you will still be able to recognise 2 distinct personalities. Same with many animals.

I see reason to what you are all saying, but isn't there no physically possible way to categorize the cognitive functions of different species?

Humans, as a species, have the innate instinct to sort and categorize. This is being seen when all of you want to sort species into their cognitive function categories. So by doing this, aren't we all returning to our most basic brain functions? Are we any better than our primate ancestors?

I see reason to what you are all saying, but isn't there no physically possible way to categorize the cognitive functions of different species?

Sure. You can test their memory, problem solving, focus, etc. Consciousness or sentience is anyone's guess though. My personal theory is that I am the only person in the world that is conscious of its own existence. Everyone else is just a glorified biological automaton. I have never seen evidence that contradicts this theory.

Humans, as a species, have the innate instinct to sort and categorize.

The state of my closet says otherwise.

Of course it is possible to test cognitive ability, but whether the results give a full picture on what a species can or can't do is up for debate.

As far as your theory, simply fascinating. I haven't met anybody that thinks in quite the way you do. I'm going to remain neutral as far as my reaction to it, but it is very interesting.

Quote from: Babushka on May 03, 2017, 03:07:54 PM

I see reason to what you are all saying, but isn't there no physically possible way to categorize the cognitive functions of different species?

Sure. You can test their memory, problem solving, focus, etc. Consciousness or sentience is anyone's guess though. My personal theory is that I am the only person in the world that is conscious of its own existence. Everyone else is just a glorified biological automaton. I have never seen evidence that contradicts this theory.

Quote

Humans, as a species, have the innate instinct to sort and categorize.

The state of my closet says otherwise.

Are you into a form of Solipsism?

That would be quite interesting. I personally have never met a solipsist before, and I'm wondering how their type of mind frame works. As in, are solipsists so doubtful of the world around them that they think existence is false? Like a matrix sort of deal, but on a realistic level.

My personal theory is that I am the only person in the world that is conscious of its own existence. Everyone else is just a glorified biological automaton. I have never seen evidence that contradicts this theory.

I get it now.

I still don't understand your interpretation of "evidence."

Guys... it was a joke...

I was trying to point out the difficulty of scientifically studying the idea of consciousness/sentience/awareness. How can we say that an animal is or isn't self aware when we can't even be sure humans other than ourselves are self aware. How would you test for it?

It's fun to discuss, but it isn't very useful as an argument for or against evolution.

Guys... it was a joke...

I was trying to point out the difficulty of scientifically studying the idea of consciousness/sentience/awareness. How can we say that an animal is or isn't self aware when we can't even be sure humans other than ourselves are self aware. How would you test for it?

It's fun to discuss, but it isn't very useful as an argument for or against evolution.

That's akin to saying although we can see and measure the suns orbit we can't prove it's up there.

Actually it's behind a cloud now, I will hazard the assumption it's still there even though I can't see it directly atm.

Guys... it was a joke...

I was trying to point out the difficulty of scientifically studying the idea of consciousness/sentience/awareness. How can we say that an animal is or isn't self aware when we can't even be sure humans other than ourselves are self aware. How would you test for it?

It's fun to discuss, but it isn't very useful as an argument for or against evolution.

I don't know.  Sounds suspiciously similar to something one of those qualia hoarding humans might say to distract the p-zombies.

Humour proves consciousness and intelligence imo. As crutonius demonstrates.

Also this.