Moon

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Denspressure

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Re: Moon
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2016, 03:43:39 PM »
So yeah, back to the original question, none of the moon landings were fake.  ;)

There was no dust on the LEM landing pads though, that is a bit weird. On 16mm footage you can see a lot of dust being blown away when the Apollo 11 LEM descents. No dust clouds are formed by this blowing, why not?

Ironically, this is one of the POSITIVE PROOFS of the apollo landing. Only in a pure vacuum could you land and expel dust in a parabolic trajectory out from the landing site without an atmosphere forming clouds.

Yet another proof.

They made a vacuum chamber for this? the view was pretty narrow, and you only have to do it for one scene.
):

Re: Moon
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2016, 04:16:54 PM »
So yeah, back to the original question, none of the moon landings were fake.  ;)

There was no dust on the LEM landing pads though, that is a bit weird. On 16mm footage you can see a lot of dust being blown away when the Apollo 11 LEM descents. No dust clouds are formed by this blowing, why not?

Ironically, this is one of the POSITIVE PROOFS of the apollo landing. Only in a pure vacuum could you land and expel dust in a parabolic trajectory out from the landing site without an atmosphere forming clouds.

Yet another proof.

They made a vacuum chamber for this? the view was pretty narrow, and you only have to do it for one scene.
No, they just went to the moon instead.
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rabinoz

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Re: Moon
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2016, 04:23:31 PM »
They don't. They give moon rocks away.

You should probably perform at least the slightest bit of research before you say dumb things.

You say "You should probably perform at least the slightest bit of research before you say dumb things."

Pity you don't follow your own advice occasionally!

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Rijksmuseum spokeswoman Xandra van Gelder, said the museum will keep the relic as a curiosity.
'It's a good story, with some questions that are still unanswered,' she said. 'We can laugh about it.'
The museum acquired the rock after the death of former prime minister Willem Dreesman in 1988.
Dreesman received it as a private gift in 1969 from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf who accompanied the Apollo 11 astronauts on a visit to The Netherlands after the first moon landing.
Mr Middendorf told how the rock came from the U.S. State Department, but couldn't recall the exact details.
'Apparently no one thought to doubt it, since it came from the prime minister's collection,' Ms Van Gelder said.
The rock is not usually on display at the museum, which is primarily known for fine art by masters including Rembrandt.
'It's a nondescript, pretty-much-worthless stone,' said Geologist Frank Beunk from Amsterdam's Free University. He said he could see at a glance the rock was not from the moon.
Read more: Embarrassment as 'moon rock' in museum turns out to be just a piece of petrified wood
There might be a bit of mystery about it but:
               It wasn't given by any astronaut. It wasn't given to any museum by anyone in the USA.

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onebigmonkey

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Re: Moon
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2016, 09:29:35 PM »
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, anywhere, to support the claim that the Apollo 11 astronauts gave any moon rock to anyone on the post-mission goodwill tour.

There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that the petrified wood was part of an art exhibition by two Dutch artists who specialise in thought provoking stunts, combined with the fading memories of elderly politicians.
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

Re: Moon
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2016, 09:35:15 PM »
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, anywhere, to support the claim that the Apollo 11 astronauts gave any moon rock to anyone on the post-mission goodwill tour.

There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that the petrified wood was part of an art exhibition by two Dutch artists who specialise in thought provoking stunts, combined with the fading memories of elderly politicians.
Probably because the astronauts gave the rocks back to NASA, and didn't just throw them at people at the parade.
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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Moon
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2016, 09:59:15 PM »
Why would they fake only one?

Better yet, if they faked it before why haven't they faked an even bigger feat by now? As to OP shalom and welcome to the forum.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

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fliggs

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Re: Moon
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2016, 01:16:03 AM »
Why would they fake only one?

Better yet, if they faked it before why haven't they faked an even bigger feat by now? As to OP shalom and welcome to the forum.

its a good point. If you can 'fake' a moon landing 47 years ago using computers less powerful than your digital watch, then a mars landing and Neptune landing should have occured by now.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Moon
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2016, 02:22:28 AM »
Why would they fake only one?

Better yet, if they faked it before why haven't they faked an even bigger feat by now? As to OP shalom and welcome to the forum.

its a good point. If you can 'fake' a moon landing 47 years ago using computers less powerful than your digital watch, then a mars landing and Neptune landing should have occured by now.

Low orbit private space flights should have occurred by now as well. 

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fliggs

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Re: Moon
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2016, 02:25:21 AM »
Why would they fake only one?

Better yet, if they faked it before why haven't they faked an even bigger feat by now? As to OP shalom and welcome to the forum.

You can do better than that. you can actually pay to go to the ISS via the Russians. Costs $40M-80M so it probably excludes you and the vast majority of people. Plus you have to be fit and... sane.

its a good point. If you can 'fake' a moon landing 47 years ago using computers less powerful than your digital watch, then a mars landing and Neptune landing should have occured by now.

Low orbit private space flights should have occurred by now as well.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Moon
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2016, 02:57:56 AM »
You can do better than that. you can actually pay to go to the ISS via the Russians. Costs $40M-80M so it probably excludes you and the vast majority of people. Plus you have to be fit and... sane.

Even Russia has not pretended to send a paying customer to space since 2009. 

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onebigmonkey

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Re: Moon
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2016, 04:45:43 AM »
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, anywhere, to support the claim that the Apollo 11 astronauts gave any moon rock to anyone on the post-mission goodwill tour.

There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that the petrified wood was part of an art exhibition by two Dutch artists who specialise in thought provoking stunts, combined with the fading memories of elderly politicians.
Probably because the astronauts gave the rocks back to NASA, and didn't just throw them at people at the parade.

Or because they didn't actually have any rocks at all, seeing as the samples were still in quarantine at the time they visited the Netherlands.
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

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TheRealBillNye

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Re: Moon
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2016, 12:30:37 PM »
You can do better than that. you can actually pay to go to the ISS via the Russians. Costs $40M-80M so it probably excludes you and the vast majority of people. Plus you have to be fit and... sane.

Even Russia has not pretended to send a paying customer to space since 2009.

That could have something to do with their crippled economy and diminished currency.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Moon
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2016, 12:32:32 PM »
You can do better than that. you can actually pay to go to the ISS via the Russians. Costs $40M-80M so it probably excludes you and the vast majority of people. Plus you have to be fit and... sane.

Even Russia has not pretended to send a paying customer to space since 2009.

That could have something to do with their crippled economy and diminished currency.

They are too poor to pretend to send people to space?  Do you even read the words that you type? 

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TheRealBillNye

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Re: Moon
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2016, 01:04:47 PM »
Pretending to send people to space is expensive.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Moon
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2016, 01:22:11 PM »
Is it cheaper for me to pretend to drive to California, or to drive there? 

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Moon
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2016, 02:38:19 PM »
Why would they fake only one?

Better yet, if they faked it before why haven't they faked an even bigger feat by now? As to OP shalom and welcome to the forum.

its a good point. If you can 'fake' a moon landing 47 years ago using computers less powerful than your digital watch, then a mars landing and Neptune landing should have occured by now.

Low orbit private space flights should have occurred by now as well.

Exactly my point. Why fake the moon landing? Plus if I'm not mistaken low orbit private space flights already exists. If nothing else they are at the finishing stages of completion. You must remember private companies have to be extra carful compared to government funded companies.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

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rabinoz

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Re: Moon
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2016, 02:48:43 PM »
You can do better than that. you can actually pay to go to the ISS via the Russians. Costs $40M-80M so it probably excludes you and the vast majority of people. Plus you have to be fit and... sane.

Even Russia has not pretended to send a paying customer to space since 2009.

Кто сказал?
Quote
In this Thursday, July 7, 2016, file photo, the Soyuz-FG rocket booster with Soyuz MS space ship carrying a new crew to the International Space Station, ISS, blasts off at the Russian leased Baikonur cosmodrome, Kazakhstan. The capsule carrying astronauts from Russia, Japan and the United States has docked with the International Space Station Saturday after a two-day voyage. (AP Photo/Dmitri Lovetsky, File)


Read more at: Russian, American, Japanese astronauts board space station July 9, 2016

;D Or does Russia carry these for free?  ;D

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TheRealBillNye

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Re: Moon
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2016, 02:51:09 PM »
Is it cheaper for me to pretend to drive to California, or to drive there?

Is it cheaper to drive to California or orchestrate a worldwide conspiracy set into motion with the sole purpose of convincing the world you drove to california?

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rabinoz

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Re: Moon
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2016, 04:29:24 PM »
Why would they fake only one?

Better yet, if they faked it before why haven't they faked an even bigger feat by now? As to OP shalom and welcome to the forum.

its a good point. If you can 'fake' a moon landing 47 years ago using computers less powerful than your digital watch, then a mars landing and Neptune landing should have occured by now.

Low orbit private space flights should have occurred by now as well.

So  ::) YOU  ::) are the expert on the financial viability of this sort of thing now?

But if you have the money to waste you might be able to cadge a ride: First Space Tourist: How a U.S. Millionaire Bought a Ticket to Orbit.

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Denspressure

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Re: Moon
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2016, 05:01:27 PM »
Real ???



 ::)

You can sooOOOOOOO obviously see that some kind of front or back screen projection was used to mix per-recorded slow-mo footage with a set. Look how translucence the astronauts are! and sometimes they completely disappear in the background.   :-[

---- Hey
wait a minute... why would they deliberately do such a crap job when much better is possible, like on 2001 a space odyssey.

That doesn't make sense...

Maybe they left hints for future generations to show that it was fake? each generation gets smarterer,  we now have the brain power to catch the hint, while back in the day our eyes and brains weren't evolved enough to notice it.

Weak argument/pseudo p-rrrr-o-o-f without any evidence or knowledge on the subject,
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 04:31:31 AM by Denspressure »
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Omega

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Re: Moon
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2016, 12:53:17 AM »
Is it cheaper for me to pretend to drive to California, or to drive there?

Is it cheaper to drive to California or orchestrate a worldwide conspiracy set into motion with the sole purpose of convincing the world you drove to california?

Why use logic, when you can just go GOOBLYBLAH BLAH DOOBY DOOBY DOOOO! and have the same response from conspiracy nuts?
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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TheRealBillNye

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Re: Moon
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2016, 10:06:55 AM »
Real ???



 ::)

You can sooOOOOOOO obviously see that some kind of front or back screen projection was used to mix per-recorded slow-mo footage with a set. Look how translucence the astronauts are! and sometimes they completely disappear in the background.   :-[

---- Hey
wait a minute... why would they deliberately do such a crap job when much better is possible, like on 2001 a space odyssey.

That doesn't make sense...

Maybe they left hints for future generations to show that it was fake? each generation gets smarterer,  we now have the brain power to catch the hint, while back in the day our eyes and brains weren't evolved enough to notice it.

Weak argument/pseudo p-rrrr-o-o-f without any evidence or knowledge on the subject,

A blog post with a 3 hour video to parse through. Wow.

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observer

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Re: Moon
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2016, 03:14:43 PM »
Whether the "moon rocks" are real or not, showing moon rock is not proof of landing on the moon. Unmanned missions can achieve that also.

Leaving stuff on the moon. Again, that can be done unmanned. Whether it's there or not is not relevant proof of man landing on the moon.

The only actual "proof" the American government (who was at war with the soviet at the time) gave till today were the photos and the live stream controlled by NASA who despite having higher res video feed from the claimed 130,000 miles approaching lunar orbit and did not allow a direct feed and only provided an outdated 2nd generation lower res black and white projected feed so no details are visible.

1. Live video feed.... very strong evidences of fakery.
2. Photos.... too many inconsistencies and scientifically incorrect data... no I won't list anything as it's all online if anyone is genuinely interested

I guess the 2 biggest evidences of never landing on the moon is the Van Allen Belt (also confirmed by NASA weirdly) and the leaked video dated where they staged the distance from Earth orbit. All astronauts flipped when approached about this and refused to answer. If anyone can answer these two then I'll believe man landed on the moon otherwise I feel sorry for all.

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frenat

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Re: Moon
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2016, 04:20:29 PM »
I am new to the group and I joined in search for an answer to this question: Were all the moon landings fake or only the 1969 one?
None of them were fake. You can still detect the stuff they left behind (retreoreflectors), and see the stuff they brought back. (moon rocks)

By moon rocks, are you referring to petrified wood?
No. I am referring to moon rocks.

Kind of odd, then, that your astronauts give petrified wood away as moon landing evidence, would you not say?
It would be odd IF it were true.  But it isn't.  The astronauts did not give petrified wood away.
the petrified wood in question was found in the estate of a former prime minister after his death and his family ASSUMED it was a Moon rock.  IF it was given to him it was given to him by a US ambassador but there is no proof of that either.

At the time hoaxies claim he got it NASA was not giving out ANY moon rocks.  They never gave them out to private citizens and they were ALWAYS small samples mounted in a display and labled.  This was not.

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frenat

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Re: Moon
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2016, 04:21:40 PM »
I am not calling anybody a liar. I am just correcting your misinformed statements.

So, the astronauts never gave away petrified wood as moon rocks?  Please, good sir, do a little research.
Correct, they never gave away petrified wood as moon rocks.  See previous post.

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frenat

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Re: Moon
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2016, 04:33:24 PM »
Whether the "moon rocks" are real or not, showing moon rock is not proof of landing on the moon. Unmanned missions can achieve that also.
They can.  But compare the Russian unmanned probes.  Multiple probes returned a few grams of surface dust.  On the other hand the US has over 800 pounds of dust, rocks and core samples.  Core samples could not be retrieved unmanned.

Leaving stuff on the moon. Again, that can be done unmanned. Whether it's there or not is not relevant proof of man landing on the moon.
Many of the experiments had to be manually setup

Further, there is no evidence of an unmanned program to do these things.  Who built the probes? Who operated them?  Who retrieved them?  There is no evidence of any of it but there is evidence of a manned program.

The only actual "proof" the American government (who was at war with the soviet at the time) gave till today were the photos and the live stream controlled by NASA who despite having higher res video feed from the claimed 130,000 miles approaching lunar orbit and did not allow a direct feed and only provided an outdated 2nd generation lower res black and white projected feed so no details are visible.
And the rocks, and the tracking, and the testimony, and the eyewitnesses that saw the rockets leaving earth orbit, and the warehouses full of documentation, etc.
You do realize there were more landings than just Apollo 11, right?  The problems you mention ONLY apply to Apollo 11
As for the high res video, that was taken with a camera in the CM.  The video from the surface was taken with a different camera with lower bandwidth requirements.  And the video quality improved on later missions.

1. Live video feed.... very strong evidences of fakery.
Nope.  None of it stands up to scrutiny

2. Photos.... too many inconsistencies and scientifically incorrect data... no I won't list anything as it's all online if anyone is genuinely interested
NONE of it stands up to scrutiny.  Everything hoaxies present only shows their ignorance.

I guess the 2 biggest evidences of never landing on the moon is the Van Allen Belt (also confirmed by NASA weirdly)
which they went around


and which the person who discovered them and which they were named after said they were not a problem.
http://www.clavius.org/envrad.html

and the leaked video dated where they staged the distance from Earth orbit.
not leaked.  It was broadcast live at the time.  And it doesn't show that it was from Earth orbit.  Sibrel wants you to believe that so you'll buy his stuff.  He cut out the part of the footage that proves him wrong.

explained here
http://www.clavius.org/bibfunny7.html
and here
http://www.clavius.org/bibfunny8.html

The first time they claimed this footage was faked, it was claimed it was looking through a round window.  It was pointed out the window wasn't round so it was claimed a cardboard cutout was used.  It was pointed out that it moves in the window and gets cut off by the side of the window as the camera moves so they then claimed it was a transparency.  That doesn't work either as it was broadcast live and showed current weather and some rotation could be seen.

All astronauts flipped when approached about this and refused to answer. If anyone can answer these two then I'll believe man landed on the moon otherwise I feel sorry for all.
Another lie from Sibrel.  The astronauts reacted to him not the supposed fake footage.  He was a known and convicted stalker.  He admitted in court that he would call them liars no matter how they reacted.  He had multiple astronauts that did swear on the bible as he requested but he doesn't like to show you that footage.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 06:38:50 PM by frenat »

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onebigmonkey

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Re: Moon
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2016, 08:27:06 AM »
Whether the "moon rocks" are real or not, showing moon rock is not proof of landing on the moon. Unmanned missions can achieve that also.

Leaving stuff on the moon. Again, that can be done unmanned. Whether it's there or not is not relevant proof of man landing on the moon.

Except when you have live TV footage of them putting it in place exactly where they claimed it is, and when you have images in the photos, 16mm and live TV footage that were not visible in any pre-Apollo images, and when you get data sent back from the equipment they installed as soon as they installed it, and when amateur radio enthusiasts on Earth monitor transmissions from the moon, then it all becomes a little more difficult  to dismiss. You can do marvellous things with unmanned probes, but nothing like as much as you can with people.

Quote
The only actual "proof" the American government (who was at war with the soviet at the time) gave till today were the photos and the live stream controlled by NASA

NASA don't offer anything as 'proof' - they don't have to answer to people who don't believe them. The offer results. If you want to look at what else they offered as proof, maybe take a look at the many scientific papers resulting from the data and collected by Apollo. I have 8 thick volumes from lunar science conferences, not to mention numerous lunar geology texts, that all analyse NASA's data from Apollo. Photos and other imagery are just scratching the surface.

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who despite having higher res video feed from the claimed 130,000 miles approaching lunar orbit and did not allow a direct feed and only provided an outdated 2nd generation lower res black and white projected feed so no details are visible.

There are enough details visible in the TV broadcasts to pick out surface features visible in LRO photographs of the landing site. The live TV broadcasts from cislunar space show images of Earth that can only have been taken on the date and at the time of broadcast. Images from those broadcasts were published in newspapers and books at the time, not years later.

Quote
1. Live video feed.... very strong evidences of fakery.

Precisely why it couldn't be faked.

Quote
2. Photos.... too many inconsistencies and scientifically incorrect data... no I won't list anything as it's all online if anyone is genuinely interested

Not one person has ever been able to provide any evidence to support this claim. There's a lot of BS online, and all of it can be dismissed very quickly by anyone genuinely interested enough to check for themselves and not swallow hoax crap unquestioningly.

Quote
I guess the 2 biggest evidences of never landing on the moon is the Van Allen Belt (also confirmed by NASA weirdly)

Their trajectory avoided the worst of the belts. If you think they would have died as a result of their exposure, please tell as at what point this would have happened and what the dosage would have been. The NASA confirmation you speak of is nothing of the sort - Orion is a completely different space craft going through much more intense radiation zones in some mission profiles. Again, if you're genuinely interested in asking questions you can find this out very easily.

Quote
and the leaked video dated where they staged the distance from Earth orbit.

As frenat said, not leaked at all. i have dated original press photos of the broadcast, and a copy of a very good book that details all of the TV coverage by CBS that shows the images of Earth - it was published soon after the mission. Convicted criminal Bart Sibrel basically lies in his video.

Quote
All astronauts flipped when approached about this and refused to answer. If anyone can answer these two then I'll believe man landed on the moon otherwise I feel sorry for all.

Again, not true. I'd also flip if someone tricked their way into my house and called me a liar. I'd also flip if someone came to my house while I was away and intimidated my wife, just as violent thug Sibrel did to Armstrong's wife.
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

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29silhouette

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Re: Moon
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2016, 09:11:39 AM »
You should probably perform at least the slightest bit of research before you say dumb things.
Coming from you that's pretty funny.

... why would they deliberately do such a crap job when much better is possible, like on 2001 a space odyssey.
Because of the equipment. 

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frenat

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Re: Moon
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2016, 09:17:55 AM »


You can sooOOOOOOO obviously see that some kind of front or back screen projection was used to mix per-recorded slow-mo footage with a set. Look how translucence the astronauts are! and sometimes they completely disappear in the background.   
side effect of the camera used.  You did know there was more than one mission though, right?  And the later missions with better cameras don't show that?t

... why would they deliberately do such a crap job when much better is possible, like on 2001 a space odyssey.
2001 had scenes that were not lunar gravity and which showed signs of an atmosphere with clouds of dust.

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Sam Hill

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Re: Moon
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2016, 09:57:23 AM »
... why would they deliberately do such a crap job when much better is possible, like on 2001 a space odyssey.
Because of the equipment. 

My two favorite things about that video:

1. About the "Apollo photos/videos are fake" crowd he says this: "When you listen to them, they seem not to know very much about photography, or video, or lighting, or even perspective; and I think they're hoping you don't either."  He's probably never been HERE in particular, but I think he would find plenty of justification for making that statement if he ever did visit here.

2. After examining the tech and devices that existed at the time and extrapolating from that to the hypothetical hardware that would have been required to actually make and televise the supposed Stanley Kubrick fake moon film in such a way as to make it look the way it looked on TV, he says this: "Once you're forced to hypothesize whole new technologies to keep your conspiracy possible, you've stepped over into the realm of magic. It demands a deep and abiding faith in things you can never know."  In the same vein, he points out that while moon hoaxers mock the tech of the day as insufficient for the job of an actual moon landing, they conveniently ignore that the same tech would not have been up to the job of pulling off the fake.

I hope the Society for Helping Ignorant Losers Learn Stuff cut him a big check...