"Hubble image"

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2015, 11:52:16 AM »
It is extremely difficult to understand indeed.  For the image that "clearly shows the curvature of the earth" also clearly shows three or four bunches of who knows what flowing from "atmosphere" right into "the outer space", in RE terms. Or is that coming from the "outer space"? Could you please explain the nature of those phenomena?
Reflections of inside objects in addition to other typical distortion or interference due to looking through a view-port from inside.

All right, two guys mentioned as "ventured out", both in the picture. Wait a minute... WHO WAS TAKING THE PICTURE?
One of the crew still inside.

Quote
We also see strange structures in this picture, especially in the lower left corner:


What are they?
See first answer above.

Reflections of inside objects in addition to other typical distortion or interference due to looking through a view-port from inside.

I was not thinking about that yet, thanks for the idea. Speaking about distortions, that weird round Earth might indeed illustrate one of them...

So far, I've come to a much simpler explanation, using Occam's razor. The image might be produced by using foil, LEGO-like figure and components, a piece of cardboard with the image of round Earth and the source of light behing that orange foil structure. In that case those strange structures hanging from "Earth" would represent remnants of a spiderweb, - perhaps, they did not clean the cardboard thoroughly after being in the storage room.
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

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Brouwer

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2015, 01:39:00 AM »
So far, I've come to a much simpler explanation, using Occam's razor.
Occam's razor is not a scientific proof of anything.

In that case those strange structures hanging from "Earth" would represent remnants of a spiderweb, - perhaps, they did not clean the cardboard thoroughly after being in the storage room.
Then they are the most stupid fakers ever. Spending hours of preparations, who knows how many $$$ and they did not clean one thing that appears to be the key factor in fakery. That makes no sense at all.

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Soulblood

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2015, 02:17:57 AM »
One key element in conspiracy theories is that the perpetrators are always incredible resourceful and skilled and at the same time totally incompetent ... depending on what the argument needs ...

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2015, 03:52:40 PM »
So far, I've come to a much simpler explanation, using Occam's razor.
Occam's razor is not a scientific proof of anything.

In that case those strange structures hanging from "Earth" would represent remnants of a spiderweb, - perhaps, they did not clean the cardboard thoroughly after being in the storage room.
Then they are the most stupid fakers ever. Spending hours of preparations, who knows how many $$$ and they did not clean one thing that appears to be the key factor in fakery. That makes no sense at all.

"Occam's razor is not a scientific proof of anything."
Of course it is not. It's rather a useful tool.

"Then they are the most stupid fakers ever."
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
 ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

Alpha2Omega

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2015, 07:52:27 PM »
"Then they are the most stupid fakers ever."
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
 

Varnish episode? This one?

It's obvious, after they painted the picture they sprayed clear varnish on it to preserve it for future generations to enjoy it. Who ever did it got a little carried away and went out side of the lines. It's no big deal, who has enough nerve to question NASA. If they say it is a photo, then it is a photo.

[Citing the quote above]:
I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures.

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Brouwer

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2015, 10:58:57 PM »
Of course it is not. It's rather a useful tool.
No, it is not a tool either. It is a heruestic thing to guide scientists, not to give them final judge.

Quote
In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic or a scientific result; the preference for simplicity in the scientific method is based on the falsifiability criterion. For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives, because one can always burden failing explanations with ad hoc hypothesis to prevent them from being falsified; therefore, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they are more testable.

From Wikipedia

That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
See Alpha2Omega's post.

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2015, 04:32:20 PM »
"Then they are the most stupid fakers ever."
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
 

Varnish episode? This one?

It's obvious, after they painted the picture they sprayed clear varnish on it to preserve it for future generations to enjoy it. Who ever did it got a little carried away and went out side of the lines. It's no big deal, who has enough nerve to question NASA. If they say it is a photo, then it is a photo.

[Citing the quote above]:
I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures.

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?

Frankly, I do not know. They are good, aren't they? and the idea about those balloons, too...
 ::)
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2015, 04:35:40 PM »
Of course it is not. It's rather a useful tool.
No, it is not a tool either. It is a heruestic thing to guide scientists, not to give them final judge.

Quote
In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic or a scientific result; the preference for simplicity in the scientific method is based on the falsifiability criterion. For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives, because one can always burden failing explanations with ad hoc hypothesis to prevent them from being falsified; therefore, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they are more testable.

From Wikipedia

That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
See Alpha2Omega's post.

Yep, you may call it thing instead of tool. I do not mind.
 ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

Alpha2Omega

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2015, 05:55:09 PM »
"Then they are the most stupid fakers ever."
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
 

Varnish episode? This one?

It's obvious, after they painted the picture they sprayed clear varnish on it to preserve it for future generations to enjoy it. Who ever did it got a little carried away and went out side of the lines. It's no big deal, who has enough nerve to question NASA. If they say it is a photo, then it is a photo.

[Citing the quote above]:
I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures.

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?

Frankly, I do not know.

Since you're the one who initially declared them guesses and now treat them as fact, that's really interesting.

Quote
They are good, aren't they?

Amusing, yes. Good? Not so much.

Quote
and the idea about those balloons, too...
 ::)

Which one? I agree with the rolleye, though.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2015, 06:20:56 PM »
"Then they are the most stupid fakers ever."
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
 

Varnish episode? This one?

It's obvious, after they painted the picture they sprayed clear varnish on it to preserve it for future generations to enjoy it. Who ever did it got a little carried away and went out side of the lines. It's no big deal, who has enough nerve to question NASA. If they say it is a photo, then it is a photo.

[Citing the quote above]:
I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures.

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?

Frankly, I do not know.

Since you're the one who initially declared them guesses and now treat them as fact, that's really interesting.

Quote
They are good, aren't they?

Amusing, yes. Good? Not so much.

Quote
and the idea about those balloons, too...
 ::)

Which one? I agree with the rolleye, though.

"Since you're the one who initially declared them guesses and now treat them as fact, that's really interesting."

What is really interesting? You initially mentioned them as "promoted to fact" and asked when it happened:

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?

I answered that I do not know.

Now you are saying that I "treat them as fact".
 ;D

The idea about the balloon is on the 1st page. If you can not find it, please let me know and I'll help you.
 ;)
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

Alpha2Omega

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2015, 08:57:58 PM »
"Then they are the most stupid fakers ever."
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.
 

Varnish episode? This one?

It's obvious, after they painted the picture they sprayed clear varnish on it to preserve it for future generations to enjoy it. Who ever did it got a little carried away and went out side of the lines. It's no big deal, who has enough nerve to question NASA. If they say it is a photo, then it is a photo.

[Citing the quote above]:
I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures.

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?

Frankly, I do not know.

Since you're the one who initially declared them guesses and now treat them as fact, that's really interesting.

Quote
They are good, aren't they?

Amusing, yes. Good? Not so much.

Quote
and the idea about those balloons, too...
 ::)

Which one? I agree with the rolleye, though.

"Since you're the one who initially declared them guesses and now treat them as fact, that's really interesting."

What is really interesting? You initially mentioned them as "promoted to fact" and asked when it happened:

When did Yendor's guesses and suggestions get promoted to fact?

I answered that I do not know.

I saw that and commented on it.

Quote
Now you are saying that I "treat them as fact".
 ;D

Yes. Very good comprehension. Here's why I say that (in case it was too subtle):

...like in the varnish episode.

The idea about the balloon is on the 1st page. If you can not find it, please let me know and I'll help you.
 ;)

Thanks. The only comment by Yendor I see in this thread is the one about the varnish, and There's nothing about balloons in that one. He's had other "balloon" "ideas", though. It's hard to keep all the things he guesses about straight sometimes.

Oh... you're talking about some non-FE poster making a guess about balloons. That was Misero... I think that suggestion was in jest.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2015, 06:02:15 PM »
Oh... you're talking about some non-FE poster making a guess about balloons. That was Misero... I think that suggestion was in jest.

Frankly, I was not even thinking if that was written by a FEer or REer. What may also be important is that according to Occam's razor ("simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones" - kindly provided by Brouwer), that varnish episode of the conversation might indeed happen in reality. Once I was spraying such a varnish myself, wishing to preserve my picture, and noticed some interesting effects when my painting had not dried completely.

Using that Occam's razor a while ago, I had a chance to illustrate that those famous "Mars Rovers" adventures might happen in Iceland... just a moment, here it is, from my post of January 23, 2014:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Those "Martian" landscapes look strikingly familiar. I have definitely seen them somewhere. May be, here:



This is Iceland. Incidentally, there is also a U.S. Air Force base on the island. The rest is pretty much conceivable. Let us humbly hypothesize and identify the third option for the rock’s source:

Between the "sols 3528 and 3540 of Opportunity's mission", a dog or other, say, Icelandian animal of appropriate size walked by the "rover" and, using the hind part of its body, skillfully produced and accurately positioned a mysterious object that, after certain time, naturally formed "the jelly doughnut-sized rock". Then the dog walked away. "It's very high in sulphur, it's very high in magnesium, it's got twice as much manganese as we've ever seen in anything on Mars." - sure. I have seen those jelly rocks, too. Soda and popcorn, please. Thank you. Keep the change. The next episode will probably show titanic efforts of the virtuous "rovers" to save some of the precious jelly and, may be, even deliver the sample back to Earth.

  ;D
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 04:47:24 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

Alpha2Omega

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2015, 08:42:25 PM »
Oh... you're talking about some non-FE poster making a guess about balloons. That was Misero... I think that suggestion was in jest.

Frankly, I was not even thinking if that was written by a FEer or REer.
Really? Then why this:

Coincidentally, I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures. My own impression is that NASA could not wait for 12 or even 6 months. So it might be that the painting had not dried enough yet when the varnish was sprayed...

I also like very much the idea about the balloons. It can be explored later.
 ;D
Do you even read what you write?
 
Quote
What may also be important is that according to Occam's razor ("simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones" - kindly provided by Brouwer), that varnish episode of the conversation might indeed happen in reality. Once I was spraying such a varnish myself, wishing to preserve my picture, and noticed some interesting effects when my painting had not dried completely.

Using that Occam's razor a while ago, I had a chance to illustrate that those famous "Mars Rovers" adventures might happen in Iceland... just a moment, here it is, from my post of January 23, 2014:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Those "Martian" landscapes look strikingly familiar. I have definitely seen them somewhere. May be, here:



This is Iceland. Incidentally, there is also a U.S. Air Force base on the island. The rest is pretty much conceivable. Let us humbly hypothesize and identify the third option for the rock’s source:

Between the "sols 3528 and 3540 of Opportunity's mission", a dog or other, say, Icelandian animal of appropriate size walked by the "rover" and, using the hind part of its body, skillfully produced and accurately positioned a mysterious object that, after certain time, naturally formed "the jelly doughnut-sized rock". Then the dog walked away. "It's very high in sulphur, it's very high in magnesium, it's got twice as much manganese as we've ever seen in anything on Mars." - sure. I have seen those jelly rocks, too. Soda and popcorn, please. Thank you. Keep the change. The next episode will probably show titanic efforts of the virtuous "rovers" to save some of the precious jelly and, may be, even deliver the sample back to Earth.

  ;D
All that's pretty fanciful guessing (or was that merely a fanciful suggestion?) A massive conspiracy involving thousands and thousands of people (no leaks, but they can't keep a dog out of the set) has just got to be the simplest explanation. Sure.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2015, 05:32:13 PM »
Do you even read what you write?


Well, what you did not understand this time? I'll be glad to help you.
 8)
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

Alpha2Omega

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2015, 09:03:33 PM »
Do you even read what you write?


Well, what you did not understand this time? I'll be glad to help you.
 8)

Why did you try to justify saying "FEers" are kind and friendly by providing guesses and suggestions, but cited an example of such guesses and suggestions, and then saying you didn't care if it came from an FEer or not?

Seems inconsistent, as though you just rattle stuff off without really thinking about it; that's all.

I tried to explain this the first time; maybe that wasn't clear enough for you.

[Note:] You want to put your response after the outermost [/quote] tag of whatever it is you're responding to. Again, sloppy. If you reviewed what you write, things like this can be avoided.

[Edit] Formatting.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 09:06:55 PM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2015, 05:00:00 PM »
Do you even read what you write?


Well, what you did not understand this time? I'll be glad to help you.
 8)

Why did you try to justify saying "FEers" are kind and friendly by providing guesses and suggestions, but cited an example of such guesses and suggestions, and then saying you didn't care if it came from an FEer or not?

Seems inconsistent, as though you just rattle stuff off without really thinking about it; that's all.

I tried to explain this the first time; maybe that wasn't clear enough for you.

[Note:] You want to put your response after the outermost
tag of whatever it is you're responding to. Again, sloppy. If you reviewed what you write, things like this can be avoided.

[Edit] Formatting.
[/quote]

I see. Perhaps, there are two main reasons for your confusion:
(1) you do not even read what you write;
(2) you do not read my posts, either.
For example:
"saying you didn't care if it came from an FEer or not?"
I did not say that.
 ;D
Sloppy, eh? Look above what you have produced yourself.
You want to put your response after the outermost "[/quote]" tag of whatever it is you're responding to.
 ;D
"If you reviewed what you write, things like this can be avoided."
Yep, exactly. If I am not mistaken, you started with talking about a promotion that did not happen. It looks like even when you're trying to read something, you are not able to understand that.

Anyway, if my posts make you uncomfortable, just stop reading them. I would not mind. In contrast to some other folks, you have failed to produce a single interesting idea or suggestion. Thanks for your awkward attempt to contribute, though; I appreciate your interest to the topic.

 ;D
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 06:03:05 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2015, 05:11:31 PM »
I have just remembered about another interesting image. This picture was taken in Russian city of Murmansk in 1970. You may observe triumphant Russians giving to their American brethren... a genuine Apollo module. The Americans, however, do not look particularly enthusiastic. How come? Any ideas? If nobody knows, I'll tell the story I've found.
  ;)

"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

frenat

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2015, 06:43:00 PM »
I have just remembered about another interesting image. This picture was taken in Russian city of Murmansk in 1970. You may observe triumphant Russians giving to their American brethren... a genuine Apollo module. The Americans, however, do not look particularly enthusiastic. How come? Any ideas? If nobody knows, I'll tell the story I've found.
  ;)



You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?

Story of the capsule here
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovpsule.htm
and here
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm
and the picture appears to have been cut from here
http://www.americanspacecraft.com/pages/apollo/BP-1227.html

I would not call it a genuine Apollo capsule though.  It is a boilerplate capsule used for training in recovery and water egress.  It is not designed to be spaceworthy.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2015, 10:40:42 PM »
Do you even read what you write?


Well, what you did not understand this time? I'll be glad to help you.
 8)

Why did you try to justify saying "FEers" are kind and friendly by providing guesses and suggestions, but cited an example of such guesses and suggestions, and then saying you didn't care if it came from an FEer or not?

Seems inconsistent, as though you just rattle stuff off without really thinking about it; that's all.

I tried to explain this the first time; maybe that wasn't clear enough for you.

[Note:] You want to put your response after the outermost [/quote] tag of whatever it is you're responding to. Again, sloppy. If you reviewed what you write, things like this can be avoided.

[Edit] Formatting.

I see. Perhaps, there are two main reasons for your confusion:
(1) you do not even read what you write;
(2) you do not read my posts, either.
For example:
"saying you didn't care if it came from an FEer or not?"
I did not say that.
 ;D
Sloppy, eh? Look above what you have produced yourself.
You want to put your response after the outermost "[/quote]" tag of whatever it is you're responding to.
 ;D

Well, that was a mess. The [/quote] embedded in the quoted text screwed up your formatting. I wondered if that would happen. I fixed the embedded quotes for you by altering the [/quote] tags so it's not so confusing for your readers; I hope you don't mind.

Quote
"If you reviewed what you write, things like this can be avoided."
Yep, exactly.

Exactly what? You can't keep your response distinct from the text you're quoting? Yeah, I already commented about that.

You did it again, too. So, to repeat and amplify:

If you reviewed what you write, mistakes like this can be avoided, or at least corrected.

Quote
If I am not mistaken, you started with talking about a promotion that did not happen. It looks like even when you're trying to read something, you are not able to understand that.

It's only possible to read what you actually post, not what you think you know what you meant to say. When your posts are error-laden, they lose their ability to convey clear meaning.

Quote
Anyway, if my posts make you uncomfortable, just stop reading them. I would not mind.

On the contrary. They are entertaining. I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I did ignore them, however.

Quote
In contrast to some other folks, you have failed to produce a single interesting idea or suggestion. Thanks for your awkward attempt to contribute, though; I appreciate your interest to the topic.

I wish there were a way to present my ideas in a way you find understandable. There's only so much anyone can do.

Did you even look at the final result, or even notice there was a problem? There's a [Preview] button below the area where you type your responses. It formats the text as it will appear in the forum, and allows you to correct errors before they are posted. I suggest you use it, and actually read the post before hitting the [Post] button. Even if there's a mistake, you can still [Edit] your own posts if something slipped through. It happens. Did you do so but not know how to fix it?

Anyway, nice try at wriggling.

In case you still don't see the point:

You claim that FEers are "kind and friendly" because they make "guesses and suggestions". To wit:

Coincidentally, I was thinking on something close, namely how kind and friendly FEers are. They are so generously providing guesses and suggestions for their brethren REers regarding these mysterious pictures. My own impression is that NASA could not wait for 12 or even 6 months. So it might be that the painting had not dried enough yet when the varnish was sprayed...

Referring to Yendor's post:
It's obvious, after they painted the picture they sprayed clear varnish on it to preserve it for future generations to enjoy it. Who ever did it got a little carried away and went out side of the lines. It's no big deal, who has enough nerve to question NASA. If they say it is a photo, then it is a photo.

Followed immediately by:
I also like very much the idea about the balloons.

Which was Misero's:
Well, helium and hydrogen do tend to escape from the atmosphere.
Lots of balloons, maybe?   ;D

The problem is that Misero doesn't believe the Earth is flat (unless he's changed sides, which I doubt).

Then, Yendor's "varnish guess" became "the varnish episode" here:
That's a possibility. Or they might be in a hurry, like in the varnish episode.

That's where it got promoted. See it yet?

At any rate, can you post a response that's not full of errors? Consider that a kind and helpful suggestion.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2015, 05:19:38 AM »
I have just remembered about another interesting image. This picture was taken in Russian city of Murmansk in 1970. You may observe triumphant Russians giving to their American brethren... a genuine Apollo module. The Americans, however, do not look particularly enthusiastic. How come? Any ideas? If nobody knows, I'll tell the story I've found.
  ;)



You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?

Story of the capsule here
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovpsule.htm
and here
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm
and the picture appears to have been cut from here
http://www.americanspacecraft.com/pages/apollo/BP-1227.html

I would not call it a genuine Apollo capsule though.  It is a boilerplate capsule used for training in recovery and water egress.  It is not designed to be spaceworthy.

"You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?"
I am not sure about that. Look at their body language.

"Story of the capsule here"
I saw that, too...
 ;)
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

frenat

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2015, 06:27:18 AM »
I have just remembered about another interesting image. This picture was taken in Russian city of Murmansk in 1970. You may observe triumphant Russians giving to their American brethren... a genuine Apollo module. The Americans, however, do not look particularly enthusiastic. How come? Any ideas? If nobody knows, I'll tell the story I've found.
  ;)



You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?

Story of the capsule here
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovpsule.htm
and here
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm
and the picture appears to have been cut from here
http://www.americanspacecraft.com/pages/apollo/BP-1227.html

I would not call it a genuine Apollo capsule though.  It is a boilerplate capsule used for training in recovery and water egress.  It is not designed to be spaceworthy.

"You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?"
I am not sure about that. Look at their body language.
their body language from what?  They are standing. the guy on the right appears to be standing at ease and the others more or less at attention.  Since they're in the middle of the cold war and within a few feet of some Russians you think they should be having a party?

"Story of the capsule here"
I saw that, too...

So what's your point?  You going to get to your story or is it the same one already posted?  Or you just going to play guessing games?

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2015, 09:02:35 AM »
I have just remembered about another interesting image. This picture was taken in Russian city of Murmansk in 1970. You may observe triumphant Russians giving to their American brethren... a genuine Apollo module. The Americans, however, do not look particularly enthusiastic. How come? Any ideas? If nobody knows, I'll tell the story I've found.
  ;)



You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?

Story of the capsule here
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovpsule.htm
and here
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm
and the picture appears to have been cut from here
http://www.americanspacecraft.com/pages/apollo/BP-1227.html

I would not call it a genuine Apollo capsule though.  It is a boilerplate capsule used for training in recovery and water egress.  It is not designed to be spaceworthy.

"You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?"
I am not sure about that. Look at their body language.
their body language from what?  They are standing. the guy on the right appears to be standing at ease and the others more or less at attention.  Since they're in the middle of the cold war and within a few feet of some Russians you think they should be having a party?

"Story of the capsule here"
I saw that, too...

So what's your point?  You going to get to your story or is it the same one already posted?  Or you just going to play guessing games?

Since they're in the middle of the cold war and within a few feet of some Russians you think they should be having a party?


Well, that is exactly what caught my attention. The Russians look as if they are having a party, the Americans - not. You have just confirmed my observations. Why is that, how do you think?

So what's your point?

Patience, my friend. My point is that I've found an interesting picture and have a very interesting story explaining why the Russians are so cheerful. But first, let us verify a few things.

One of the links you've given so kindly ( http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm ) also shows the capsule:


We may observe that there is  capsule is decorated with "Apollo", American flag and "United States". Therefore, it must be a genuine Apollo capsule, as my story tells. There is no reason to deny it.

It also shows the capsule in more details:



It looks like the capsule in which the astronauts, according to NASA, returned to Earth from Moon, isn't it? Look here:

"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

frenat

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2015, 09:22:19 AM »
I have just remembered about another interesting image. This picture was taken in Russian city of Murmansk in 1970. You may observe triumphant Russians giving to their American brethren... a genuine Apollo module. The Americans, however, do not look particularly enthusiastic. How come? Any ideas? If nobody knows, I'll tell the story I've found.
  ;)



You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?

Story of the capsule here
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovpsule.htm
and here
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm
and the picture appears to have been cut from here
http://www.americanspacecraft.com/pages/apollo/BP-1227.html

I would not call it a genuine Apollo capsule though.  It is a boilerplate capsule used for training in recovery and water egress.  It is not designed to be spaceworthy.

"You can tell the American's expressions when their faces are turned away from you?"
I am not sure about that. Look at their body language.
their body language from what?  They are standing. the guy on the right appears to be standing at ease and the others more or less at attention.  Since they're in the middle of the cold war and within a few feet of some Russians you think they should be having a party?

"Story of the capsule here"
I saw that, too...

So what's your point?  You going to get to your story or is it the same one already posted?  Or you just going to play guessing games?

Since they're in the middle of the cold war and within a few feet of some Russians you think they should be having a party?


Well, that is exactly what caught my attention. The Russians look as if they are having a party, the Americans - not. You have just confirmed my observations. Why is that, how do you think?
The Russians are the ones doing the returning.  The Americans are depending on them.  So what?

So what's your point?

Patience, my friend. My point is that I've found an interesting picture and have a very interesting story explaining why the Russians are so cheerful. But first, let us verify a few things.

One of the links you've given so kindly ( http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollobp1227.htm ) also shows the capsule:


We may observe that there is  capsule is decorated with "Apollo", American flag and "United States". Therefore, it must be a genuine Apollo capsule, as my story tells. There is no reason to deny it.

It also shows the capsule in more details:



It looks like the capsule in which the astronauts, according to NASA, returned to Earth from Moon, isn't it? Look here:


It looks like a boilerplate capsule used for training.  It should look similar but it isn't the same.  The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles.

The boilerplate does not.  You can't prove it is anything else. 
Are you trying to say they are the same when they clearly are not?  Or are you going to drag this out a few more posts playing guessing games?

Why not actually use the quotes instead of changing colors?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 09:25:03 AM by frenat »

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2015, 10:09:45 AM »
It looks like a boilerplate capsule used for training.  It should look similar but it isn't the same.  The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles.

...

The boilerplate does not.  You can't prove it is anything else. 
Are you trying to say they are the same when they clearly are not?  Or are you going to drag this out a few more posts playing guessing games?

Why not actually use the quotes instead of changing colors?

"The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles."


"The boilerplate does not. You can't prove it is anything else."

Perfect. Dear Frenat, I could not find those handles in this Apollo module picture:



Is is the boilerplate or the flown capsule?
 ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

frenat

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2015, 10:17:41 AM »
It looks like a boilerplate capsule used for training.  It should look similar but it isn't the same.  The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles.

...

The boilerplate does not.  You can't prove it is anything else. 
Are you trying to say they are the same when they clearly are not?  Or are you going to drag this out a few more posts playing guessing games?

Why not actually use the quotes instead of changing colors?

"The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles."


"The boilerplate does not. You can't prove it is anything else."

Perfect. Dear Frenat, I could not find those handles in this Apollo module picture:



Is is the boilerplate or the flown capsule?
 ;D
It is a DIFFERENT boilerplate.  Still no RCS ports.  Plus the color and lack of external coating the flown capsules had is kind of a giveaway.  There is also the fact that apparently the boilerplate capsules could float without additional flotation like is often seen on the flown capsules.  That particular picture is from the training of the Apollo 7 crew.  What's your point?

You did know that Google allows you to search with an image, right?  So your attempts to hide the provenance of a particular picture by not listing your source are really not successful.

*

markjo

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2015, 10:35:52 AM »
Quite a few boilerplate Apollo capsules were made for various testing/training purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boilerplate_%28spaceflight%29#Apollo_boilerplates
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2015, 04:49:04 PM »
Gentlemen, the version of the events I've found is described here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64893.msg1733606#msg1733606

Please let me know if you can not find those pictures from Soyuz-Apollo mission or the data and calculations showing that Apollo rocket did not have enough speed to bring the "spaceship" even on the orbit (in RE terms). I saw them somewhere quite a while ago and thought everybody knows about that. Yes, the Apollo "spaceships" were simply falling into the ocean, after triumphant launches. Empty, of course, there was nobody inside. That is exactly why what the Russians found in the ocean was a "boilerplate", - there was no reason to launch a "real spaceship".

"The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles."

Dear Frenat, you can not be serious. Do you believe yourself that the "flown capsule" in the image you've so kindly provided entered the Earth's atmosphere at 7 km/s with these nice brand new handles? And, after that, they are still new and shiny? Just look at your picture.
 ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

?

frenat

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Re: "Hubble image"
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2015, 04:56:37 PM »
Gentlemen, the version of the events I've found is described here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64893.msg1733606#msg1733606

Please let me know if you can not find those pictures from Soyuz-Apollo mission or the data and calculations showing that Apollo rocket did not have enough speed to bring the "spaceship" even on the orbit (in RE terms). I saw them somewhere quite a while ago and thought everybody knows about that. Yes, the Apollo "spaceships" were simply falling into the ocean, after triumphant launches. Empty, of course, there was nobody inside. That is exactly why what the Russians found in the ocean was a "boilerplate", - there was no reason to launch a "real spaceship".
Your version has multiple holes, among them the boilerplates are easily distinguished from the real capsules, the real ones were tracked there and back with live conversation about current events and imagery of Earth matching current weather and of course the boilerplate found was known to be lost and when it was lost.  And of course you have no proof for your version.

"The flown capsule has windows, instrumentation and RCS ports.  As well as rounded edges on the door and handles."

Dear Frenat, you can not be serious. Do you believe yourself that the "flown capsule" in the image you've so kindly provided entered the Earth's atmosphere at 7 km/s with these nice brand new handles? And, after that, they are still new and shiny? Just look at your picture.
 ;D
So the museum can't have shined it up a bit?  It appears as if some parts of the handles have some of the finish missing.  Other parts appear to be stainless steel which I would expect to be able to be cleaned up.  Reaching much?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 04:59:32 PM by frenat »