People on skateboards.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #210 on: October 05, 2015, 11:50:13 AM »
Here you go again, Humpty Dumptys; quibble over the definition of this:

I want everyone to read this. This is a page from a 1941 issue of Popular Science explaining new fangled jet propulsion. We all know jets and rockets work virtually the same way. This article was written explaining the correct way they worked, not the way NASA says. It says very plainly that a "monstrous jet of energy pushing against the atmosphere." It can't get any plainer than that. NASA has simply rewrote history to explain how rockets can work if there is no atmosphere to push against in space.


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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #211 on: October 05, 2015, 12:05:57 PM »
So now I'M the one quibbling over definitions?
No, you're the one who's arbitrarily making up your own definitions.  Such as transfer = exchange.

LULZ!!!
Indeed.
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Mainframes

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #212 on: October 05, 2015, 12:07:15 PM »
All rockets and jet engines have exhaust that pushes against the atmosphere. It has to push against the atmosphere to leave the nozzle. It does not say that the push is what actually propels the rocket or jet.

Try again Papa.
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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #213 on: October 05, 2015, 12:13:07 PM »
Yeah, whatever, liars...

Here you go again, Humpty Dumptys; read the article properly:

I want everyone to read this. This is a page from a 1941 issue of Popular Science explaining new fangled jet propulsion. We all know jets and rockets work virtually the same way. This article was written explaining the correct way they worked, not the way NASA says. It says very plainly that a "monstrous jet of energy pushing against the atmosphere." It can't get any plainer than that. NASA has simply rewrote history to explain how rockets can work if there is no atmosphere to push against in space.



Plus:
All rockets and jet engines have exhaust that pushes against the atmosphere.

But that doesn't matter cos they REALLY work by 'pushing on themselves', eh?

LOL!!!
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chtwrone

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #214 on: October 05, 2015, 12:18:03 PM »
So now I'M the one quibbling over definitions?

LULZ!!!

WELCOME TO OPPOSITE WORLD, STARRING MARKJO & HIS 'ROUND EARTHER' HUMPTY DUMPTYS!


When rocket fuel is combusted within the combustion chamber, it is then ejected out through the engine nozzles as high speed super heated exhaust gas particles. As in my previous example, if 500kg of fuel is combusted within the engine every second, then obviously 500kg of high speed super heated exhaust is also created every second - there is NO mass lost during this process.

It seems to me, that you're not comprehending that the 500kg of fuel that is combusted every second, retains the same weight when it is ejected out of the engine nozzles, ie. the newly created exhaust weighs exactly the same as the fuel that it formerly existed as - all that's happened, is that this 'parcel of mass' has changed its form from a liquid with 500kg of mass, to exhaust particles with 500kg of mass.

I hope you're not going to say that a mass of 500kg travelling at hypersonic speed does not have a large amount of momentum? And remember that this 500kg parcel of mass is being created and ejected out of the system every second.

How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

You seem quite happy that the system comprising a cannon and a cannonball, causes the cannon to recoil due to the momentum of the cannonball travelling in the opposite direction, yet you can't see that the system comprised of a rocket and its fuel, acts in exactly the same way, whereby the momentum of the exhaust (mass 2) causes the rocket to be propelled (recoiled) in the opposite direction?

So the relevant conservation of momentum equation looks like this -   

M(rocket) V(rocket) =  - M(exhaust) V(exhaust)


Just to recap, it's the 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel) being ejected out of the 'rocket system' every second, that is mass 2.
This is EXACTLY the same as the cannonball (mass 2) being ejected out of the 'cannon/cannonball system' and the medicine ball (mass 2) being ejected out of the 'man/medicine ball system'.



In my above example, when 500kg of fuel is combusted and expelled at high speed out of the engine nozzles every second, does the rocket lose 500kg of weight every second?

Yes, of course it does.

So to satisfy the conservation of momentum laws, what MUST happen to the rocket?

I eagerly await your answer.
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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #215 on: October 05, 2015, 01:02:25 PM »
I eagerly await any mention of a vacuum in your bullshit posts about a CLOSED SYSTEM...

Looks like we'll both be waiting a while.

Now read this again; note the title: This is the Principle of hot-air jet propulsion.

Note the words.

Note the diagrams.



Then think about it, eh?

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chtwrone

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #216 on: October 05, 2015, 02:31:50 PM »
Markjo: anyone can google 'adiabatic exchange' & 'adiabatic transfer' to understand the terms are interchangeable.
Then why is it when I Google 'adiabatic exchange' or 'adiabatic transfer', the top hits refer to it as 'adiabatic process'
.

Because they're both the same thing.

Duh!

& a gas-powered rocket open to a vacuum is an adiabatic process & will therefore do no work.

Any more petty quibbling you'd like to shit up the thread with?


When rocket fuel is combusted within the combustion chamber, it is then ejected out through the engine nozzles as high speed super heated exhaust gas particles. As in my previous example, if 500kg of fuel is combusted within the engine every second, then obviously 500kg of high speed super heated exhaust is also created every second - there is NO mass lost during this process.

It seems to me, that you're not comprehending that the 500kg of fuel that is combusted every second, retains the same weight when it is ejected out of the engine nozzles, ie. the newly created exhaust weighs exactly the same as the fuel that it formerly existed as - all that's happened, is that this 'parcel of mass' has changed its form from a liquid with 500kg of mass, to exhaust particles with 500kg of mass.

I hope you're not going to say that a mass of 500kg travelling at hypersonic speed does not have a large amount of momentum? And remember that this 500kg parcel of mass is being created and ejected out of the system every second.

How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

You seem quite happy that the system comprising a cannon and a cannonball, causes the cannon to recoil due to the momentum of the cannonball travelling in the opposite direction, yet you can't see that the system comprised of a rocket and its fuel, acts in exactly the same way, whereby the momentum of the exhaust (mass 2) causes the rocket to be propelled (recoiled) in the opposite direction?

So the relevant conservation of momentum equation looks like this -   

M(rocket) V(rocket) =  - M(exhaust) V(exhaust)


Just to recap, it's the 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel) being ejected out of the 'rocket system' every second, that is mass 2.
This is EXACTLY the same as the cannonball (mass 2) being ejected out of the 'cannon/cannonball system' and the medicine ball (mass 2) being ejected out of the 'man/medicine ball system'.




Yes, I'm not surprised you haven't answered my simple question.

Just to be clear, I am not presently dealing with the theory behind rocket propulsion in a vacuum, but as to how a rocket is propelled in the atmosphere.

Going back to my example, if the rocket is losing 500kg of mass every second, as a consequence of the combusting and ejection of 500kg of fuel in the form of high speed exhaust particles (which also weigh 500kg), according to the conservation of momentum laws, what MUST happen to the rocket to balance the equation so that the total momentum equals zero?

Can you not answer this question?  Too hard?
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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #217 on: October 05, 2015, 09:15:20 PM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.
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chtwrone

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #218 on: October 05, 2015, 09:46:32 PM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.


I am not ignoring the vacuum side of this discussion at all, due to the fact that I am dealing with the theory behind rocket propulsion within the atmosphere, that is all.

You do realise that in my previous example, 500kg of fuel is being converted every second into high speed exhaust particles. In other words, your mysterious mass 2 is this parcel of exhaust particles weighing 500kg, which is being created every second, and is being ejected out of the engine nozzles.
 Let's be clear on this, just because the fuel has been converted into exhaust particles, does not mean that it has lost any mass - the exhaust which is being created and ejected at high speed out of the engine nozzles every second, still weighs 500kg - do you actually get this?


Why can't you comprehend that this parcel of exhaust particles, which weighs 500kg, is mass 2?
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Mainframes

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #219 on: October 05, 2015, 10:48:50 PM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
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sceptimatic

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #220 on: October 06, 2015, 02:48:02 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

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Mainframes

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #221 on: October 06, 2015, 04:44:53 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sceptimatic

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #222 on: October 06, 2015, 05:01:58 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

It's really very simple if you use your common sense.
It means that a rocket does not use an internal combustion chamber. It's a fallacy. It's a con. It's a massive clever dupe.

What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.

The ejected burning fuel is super expanded matter against a dense external barrier and it creates a massive push against that dense atmosphere due to the expansion I just mentioned. This forces that atmosphere aside like a big rubber elastic sheet which springs back (squeezes) against that energy expansion of burning fuel. This creates the lift of the rocket. It's merely a fight of fuel against atmosphere.

There's nothing going on inside that rocket to make it fly in terms of burning fuel. Nothing  at all.

Now understand this because the sooner you do, the sooner you will wake up to the bullshit that  has been planted into your head and if you are adult, you should know better.

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Master_Evar

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #223 on: October 06, 2015, 05:22:21 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

The rocket burns more fuel more inefficiently, so the gasses that are spewed out of the rocket's "exhaust pipe" (aka nozzle) are more (greater total mass) and they go out with more speed (greater motion). The higher the mass being spewed out and the higher motion it has, the higher the propelling force. A car needs a piston-system to get enough force out of the burnt propellant, since the small amount spewed out from car exhaust pipes are not enough to drive the car alone. The amount spewed out from rockets are enough to lift a rocket though.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #224 on: October 06, 2015, 05:32:23 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.
Then what happens to that 500 kg of fuel after it's burnt?  Does it simply vanish never to be heard from again?  Remember that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, so it must be accounted for in the system.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 05:35:50 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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sceptimatic

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #225 on: October 06, 2015, 05:45:14 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

The rocket burns more fuel more inefficiently, so the gasses that are spewed out of the rocket's "exhaust pipe" (aka nozzle) are more (greater total mass) and they go out with more speed (greater motion). The higher the mass being spewed out and the higher motion it has, the higher the propelling force. A car needs a piston-system to get enough force out of the burnt propellant, since the small amount spewed out from car exhaust pipes are not enough to drive the car alone. The amount spewed out from rockets are enough to lift a rocket though.
I'll give you one more chance to make it sound credible.

?

Master_Evar

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #226 on: October 06, 2015, 05:51:24 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

The rocket burns more fuel more inefficiently, so the gasses that are spewed out of the rocket's "exhaust pipe" (aka nozzle) are more (greater total mass) and they go out with more speed (greater motion). The higher the mass being spewed out and the higher motion it has, the higher the propelling force. A car needs a piston-system to get enough force out of the burnt propellant, since the small amount spewed out from car exhaust pipes are not enough to drive the car alone. The amount spewed out from rockets are enough to lift a rocket though.
I'll give you one more chance to make it sound credible.

It works like a carbonic cartridge.

Also:
Quote
The rocket burns more fuel more inefficiently, so the gasses that are spewed out of the rocket's "exhaust pipe" (aka nozzle) are more (greater total mass) and they go out with more speed (greater motion). The higher the mass being spewed out and the higher motion it has, the higher the propelling force. A car needs a piston-system to get enough force out of the burnt propellant, since the small amount spewed out from car exhaust pipes are not enough to drive the car alone. The amount spewed out from rockets are enough to lift a rocket though.
Dunno what you mean by "sound credible". If you don't think it's credible point out the flaws.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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sceptimatic

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #227 on: October 06, 2015, 06:51:54 AM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

The rocket burns more fuel more inefficiently, so the gasses that are spewed out of the rocket's "exhaust pipe" (aka nozzle) are more (greater total mass) and they go out with more speed (greater motion). The higher the mass being spewed out and the higher motion it has, the higher the propelling force. A car needs a piston-system to get enough force out of the burnt propellant, since the small amount spewed out from car exhaust pipes are not enough to drive the car alone. The amount spewed out from rockets are enough to lift a rocket though.
I'll give you one more chance to make it sound credible.

It works like a carbonic cartridge.

Also:
Quote
The rocket burns more fuel more inefficiently, so the gasses that are spewed out of the rocket's "exhaust pipe" (aka nozzle) are more (greater total mass) and they go out with more speed (greater motion). The higher the mass being spewed out and the higher motion it has, the higher the propelling force. A car needs a piston-system to get enough force out of the burnt propellant, since the small amount spewed out from car exhaust pipes are not enough to drive the car alone. The amount spewed out from rockets are enough to lift a rocket though.
Dunno what you mean by "sound credible". If you don't think it's credible point out the flaws.
Start paying attention and one day you will learn something instead of hanging onto the coat tails of bullshit "space" rocket, so called scientists.

*

Yendor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #228 on: October 06, 2015, 07:43:36 AM »
I want everyone to read this. It is from a Powerpoint presentation from the European Union group that is designed to get children interested in flying. The website is www.flyhigher.eu. Now read it carefully, this is what the europeans are teaching their children how jet engine's exhaust push on the air to make jets fly. This is just common sense. I too learned this in elementary school, before NASA changed physics.

"Hot exhaust gasses from the aircraft's jet engines push on the air which in turn produces opposite reaction on the engines." This is what The FEers have been saying all along. You Globe people have been lied to, so many times and the sad part is you believe it.


"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

*

chtwrone

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #229 on: October 06, 2015, 01:41:21 PM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

It's really very simple if you use your common sense.
It means that a rocket does not use an internal combustion chamber. It's a fallacy. It's a con. It's a massive clever dupe.

What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.

The ejected burning fuel is super expanded matter against a dense external barrier and it creates a massive push against that dense atmosphere due to the expansion I just mentioned. This forces that atmosphere aside like a big rubber elastic sheet which springs back (squeezes) against that energy expansion of burning fuel. This creates the lift of the rocket. It's merely a fight of fuel against atmosphere.

There's nothing going on inside that rocket to make it fly in terms of burning fuel. Nothing  at all.

Now understand this because the sooner you do, the sooner you will wake up to the bullshit that  has been planted into your head and if you are adult, you should know better.


'What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.'


WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!    The above statement (and post as a whole) is absolute crap.


A rocket propels itself according to the conservation of momentum laws.

In the example I have used previously in this thread, if 500kg of fuel is 'lost' out of the rocket system at hypersonic speed, then this huge amount of momentum must be accounted for - and guess what?  This is what propels the rocket in the opposite direction.  This is very simple, and is exactly the same reason a man who throws a medicine ball whilst sitting on a skateboard, will be pushed in the opposite direction to which he has thrown the ball.

And just to alleviate you of your profound ignorance about the mechanics of a rocket engine, the fuel IS most certainly burnt within the combustion chamber of the rocket engine, and THEN it's forcibly ejected under huge pressure out of the engine nozzles.

It's just pure fantasy for you to even think that the fuel isn't ignited until it's left the engine nozzles - but then pure fantasy is all that you flat earth nutters ever talk about anyway, lol.
Well done NASA - 12 men on the moon and back again.

*

Yendor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #230 on: October 06, 2015, 02:57:22 PM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

It's really very simple if you use your common sense.
It means that a rocket does not use an internal combustion chamber. It's a fallacy. It's a con. It's a massive clever dupe.

What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.

The ejected burning fuel is super expanded matter against a dense external barrier and it creates a massive push against that dense atmosphere due to the expansion I just mentioned. This forces that atmosphere aside like a big rubber elastic sheet which springs back (squeezes) against that energy expansion of burning fuel. This creates the lift of the rocket. It's merely a fight of fuel against atmosphere.

There's nothing going on inside that rocket to make it fly in terms of burning fuel. Nothing  at all.

Now understand this because the sooner you do, the sooner you will wake up to the bullshit that  has been planted into your head and if you are adult, you should know better.


'What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.'


WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!    The above statement (and post as a whole) is absolute crap.


A rocket propels itself according to the conservation of momentum laws.

In the example I have used previously in this thread, if 500kg of fuel is 'lost' out of the rocket system at hypersonic speed, then this huge amount of momentum must be accounted for - and guess what?  This is what propels the rocket in the opposite direction.  This is very simple, and is exactly the same reason a man who throws a medicine ball whilst sitting on a skateboard, will be pushed in the opposite direction to which he has thrown the ball.

And just to alleviate you of your profound ignorance about the mechanics of a rocket engine, the fuel IS most certainly burnt within the combustion chamber of the rocket engine, and THEN it's forcibly ejected under huge pressure out of the engine nozzles.

It's just pure fantasy for you to even think that the fuel isn't ignited until it's left the engine nozzles - but then pure fantasy is all that you flat earth nutters ever talk about anyway, lol.

*sigh*

My above post didn’t convince you how wrong you are? Let’s try something else. Perhaps you haven’t heard of the Four Forces of Flight. They are:
THRUST, DRAG, LIFT and WEIGHT. I’m only going to talk about thrust and drag.

THUST
1.Thrust opposes drag. The engine creates thrust and moves the plane forward. (Gravity provides the thrust for a glider.) The engines push air back with the same force that the air moves the plane forward; this thrust force-pair is always equal and opposite according to Newton's 3rd Law. When thrust is greater than drag, the plane accelerates according to Newton's 2nd Law.When the plane flies level at constant velocity, thrust equals drag. When the plane flies level at constant velocity, all opposite forces of flight are equal: drag = thrust and weight = lift. How the 4 forces of flight interact
 
DRAG  (Take your time and read this very carefully)
2.   Drag opposes thrust. Drag can not be part of a closed system. It has to be external. Imagine sticking your hand out the window of a moving car and flying your hand. The force that pushes your hand back is called "drag". As your hand pushes on the wind, the wind also pushes against your hand. Isaac Newton would say that the force of your hand pushing on the air is always equal to the force of the air pushing on your hand; this is his third law. When the plane flies level at constant velocity, weight = lift! When the engines of a plane quit, drag slows the plane down according to Newton's 2nd Law.

FLAMES SHOOTING OUT THE BACK OF A JET PLANE OR A ROCKET IS NOT DRAG!!!!!!!!

It is quite simple really. No plane will fly without drag, it needs some resistance to push against. Surely you've stuck your arm out of a moving car's window before.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

*

chtwrone

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #231 on: October 06, 2015, 03:29:11 PM »
How can you not understand that this 500kg of exhaust (formerly 500kg of fuel), which is created every second, is your 'mystery' mass 2?

Because it isn't.

Stop brainwashing.

Cannon=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then cannonball=mass 2.

Rocket=mass 1; then we have P, the expanding propellant; then...?

Where is mass 2?

The article Yendor found tells you exactly what the missing mass 2 is, but you'd prefer to ignore that.

Just like you ignore the inconvenient vacuum in your posts.

Stop wasting our time.

Mass B is the exhaust.

Simple. Next.
What exhaust exactly? Is it the cloud of smoke that we see trailing a rocket? If so, this is not what we are talking about for propulsion. It's that big thrusting fire that comes out of the back before it turns into exhaust.

You see, exhaust is exactly what it says. It's exhausted fuel. Burning fuel is not exhausted....it is "exhausting."

Exhaust is any mass that is ejected from the rocket nozzle. Whether or not it has completely combusted is besides the point, it is still mass being ejected from the rocket nozzle and therefore providing thrust through conservation of momentum.
Ok let me try and enlighten you.
Now I want you to think about this carefully.

In a car, fuel and air is mixed in a combustion chamber that pushes a piston to do work turning a crank shaft, etc all the way to the wheels to move them. With each piston push, the fuel is spent as a force and it ejected as a gas. It is exhausted and passes through a pipe that throws that exhausted gas away from the car.

So what we have here is...basically your rocket. When I say this, I mean that your rocket is supposedly working on exactly the same principle, as in fuel and air mix into a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and IGNITED to burn and be ejected.

The problem that your rocket has is that it's internal combustion chamber has no work to do. It does not mechanically turn a propeller or some kind of flapping wings or whatever, as a car would use wheels.

So what's really happening?

It's really very simple if you use your common sense.
It means that a rocket does not use an internal combustion chamber. It's a fallacy. It's a con. It's a massive clever dupe.

What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.

The ejected burning fuel is super expanded matter against a dense external barrier and it creates a massive push against that dense atmosphere due to the expansion I just mentioned. This forces that atmosphere aside like a big rubber elastic sheet which springs back (squeezes) against that energy expansion of burning fuel. This creates the lift of the rocket. It's merely a fight of fuel against atmosphere.

There's nothing going on inside that rocket to make it fly in terms of burning fuel. Nothing  at all.

Now understand this because the sooner you do, the sooner you will wake up to the bullshit that  has been planted into your head and if you are adult, you should know better.


'What it does use is a chamber to MIX the UNBURNED FUEL and then it is ignited as it leaves the nozzle. It is ignited when it leaves the nozzle because this is where the work needs to be done to springboard that rocket vertically into the air against the EXTERNAL ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE that is creating a barrier to that ejected burning fuel.'


WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!    The above statement (and post as a whole) is absolute crap.


A rocket propels itself according to the conservation of momentum laws.

In the example I have used previously in this thread, if 500kg of fuel is 'lost' out of the rocket system at hypersonic speed, then this huge amount of momentum must be accounted for - and guess what?  This is what propels the rocket in the opposite direction.  This is very simple, and is exactly the same reason a man who throws a medicine ball whilst sitting on a skateboard, will be pushed in the opposite direction to which he has thrown the ball.

And just to alleviate you of your profound ignorance about the mechanics of a rocket engine, the fuel IS most certainly burnt within the combustion chamber of the rocket engine, and THEN it's forcibly ejected under huge pressure out of the engine nozzles.

It's just pure fantasy for you to even think that the fuel isn't ignited until it's left the engine nozzles - but then pure fantasy is all that you flat earth nutters ever talk about anyway, lol.

*sigh*

My above post didn’t convince you how wrong you are? Let’s try something else. Perhaps you haven’t heard of the Four Forces of Flight. They are:
THRUST, DRAG, LIFT and WEIGHT. I’m only going to talk about thrust and drag.

THUST
1.Thrust opposes drag. The engine creates thrust and moves the plane forward. (Gravity provides the thrust for a glider.) The engines push air back with the same force that the air moves the plane forward; this thrust force-pair is always equal and opposite according to Newton's 3rd Law. When thrust is greater than drag, the plane accelerates according to Newton's 2nd Law.When the plane flies level at constant velocity, thrust equals drag. When the plane flies level at constant velocity, all opposite forces of flight are equal: drag = thrust and weight = lift. How the 4 forces of flight interact
 
DRAG  (Take your time and read this very carefully)
2.   Drag opposes thrust. Drag can not be part of a closed system. It has to be external. Imagine sticking your hand out the window of a moving car and flying your hand. The force that pushes your hand back is called "drag". As your hand pushes on the wind, the wind also pushes against your hand. Isaac Newton would say that the force of your hand pushing on the air is always equal to the force of the air pushing on your hand; this is his third law. When the plane flies level at constant velocity, weight = lift! When the engines of a plane quit, drag slows the plane down according to Newton's 2nd Law.

FLAMES SHOOTING OUT THE BACK OF A JET PLANE OR A ROCKET IS NOT DRAG!!!!!!!!

It is quite simple really. No plane will fly without drag, it needs some resistance to push against. Surely you've stuck your arm out of a moving car's window before.


Thanks for that long and detailed explanation.

Obviously an aircraft needs air to be passing over its wings to provide the necessary lift, but a rocket does not fly because atmospheric lift is being provided.

Rockets are propelled due to the conservation of momentum laws, which means, due to large amounts of mass being ejected out of the 'rocket system' at hypersonic speeds, this huge amount of momentum must be balanced, which is exactly why a rocket is propelled in the opposite direction to the mass that has been ejected - simple.
Well done NASA - 12 men on the moon and back again.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #232 on: October 06, 2015, 09:13:44 PM »
Rockets are propelled due to the conservation of momentum laws, which means, due to large amounts of mass being ejected out of the 'rocket system'

LULZ!!!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

?

Master_Evar

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #233 on: October 07, 2015, 01:05:32 AM »
If you believe rockets have to push off the atmosphere, then give us the equation that takes that into account and makes accurate predictions.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #234 on: October 07, 2015, 09:25:37 AM »
Why are you asking me to put things into maths that I have explained absolutely clearly in English?

Trying to change the battlefield won't mean you haven't lost the war.

Besides, I have repeatedly asked you to give ME the equations that can prove whether what you are saying is a boldly-presented Lie or otherwise...

& you cannot.

So it is clear that Words are far more powerful than Numbers...

Only a brain-damaged geek-tard would think otherwise.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #235 on: October 07, 2015, 01:33:11 PM »
Why are you asking me to put things into maths that I have explained absolutely clearly in English?
To see if your explanation actually works, that's why. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #236 on: October 07, 2015, 01:39:15 PM »
Explain this, Humpty Dumpty...

I want everyone to read this. It is from a Powerpoint presentation from the European Union group that is designed to get children interested in flying. The website is www.flyhigher.eu. Now read it carefully, this is what the europeans are teaching their children how jet engine's exhaust push on the air to make jets fly. This is just common sense. I too learned this in elementary school, before NASA changed physics.

"Hot exhaust gasses from the aircraft's jet engines push on the air which in turn produces opposite reaction on the engines." This is what The FEers have been saying all along. You Globe people have been lied to, so many times and the sad part is you believe it.



I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

*

Yendor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #237 on: October 07, 2015, 02:13:28 PM »
I'll try again.

The notion that a rocket can propel itself by spewing out hot exhaust gasses and using this exhaust to push against is totally illogical to me.

Ref. https://curricula2.mit.edu/pivot/book/ph1005.html?acode=0x0200

The reason I don’t believe it is because I own a vacuum cleaner. I think Free Expansion experiments simply demonstrates how rapidly gas will enter a vacuum and cause no work to be done. The gas molecules rushing out the rocket nozzle are in contact with each other, bouncing off each other, causing millions of collisions per second, etc… If you release gas into the vacuum of space, the first molecule that pops out will shoot off into the distance at a constant speed, so will the one behind that, never catching up with the first one. The third, fourth, etc… all fly off into the distance trying to fill the vacuum by finding their empty corner. So no matter how much exhaust you release in the vacuum of space none of it will ever satisfy Newton’s third law and the rocket will simply fall back to Earth…sorry.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

*

Mainframes

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #238 on: October 07, 2015, 03:20:56 PM »
I'll try again.

The notion that a rocket can propel itself by spewing out hot exhaust gasses and using this exhaust to push against is totally illogical to me.

Ref. https://curricula2.mit.edu/pivot/book/ph1005.html?acode=0x0200

The reason I don’t believe it is because I own a vacuum cleaner. I think Free Expansion experiments simply demonstrates how rapidly gas will enter a vacuum and cause no work to be done. The gas molecules rushing out the rocket nozzle are in contact with each other, bouncing off each other, causing millions of collisions per second, etc… If you release gas into the vacuum of space, the first molecule that pops out will shoot off into the distance at a constant speed, so will the one behind that, never catching up with the first one. The third, fourth, etc… all fly off into the distance trying to fill the vacuum by finding their empty corner. So no matter how much exhaust you release in the vacuum of space none of it will ever satisfy Newton’s third law and the rocket will simply fall back to Earth…sorry.

Gas molecules will all be flying around in random directions, in a pressurised container, exerting force equally on all sides of that container. If you were to then remove one side, then the gas molecules already moving towards that side would fly into the vacuum and exert no force.

All the other molecules would still travel in the same directions and impact the other walls of the container exerting force. You now have a container where one side is experiencing force and the opposite side isn't, resulting in a net force in one direction causing acceleration.

After the molecules hit the walls and other molecules bounce in they will gradually leave via the empty side into the vacuum.

If you then keep filling the container with new molecules the net force on one side will continue and you get prolonged acceleration. This is how a rocket works. Very simple.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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Yendor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #239 on: October 07, 2015, 04:36:30 PM »
I'll try again.

The notion that a rocket can propel itself by spewing out hot exhaust gasses and using this exhaust to push against is totally illogical to me.

Ref. https://curricula2.mit.edu/pivot/book/ph1005.html?acode=0x0200

The reason I don’t believe it is because I own a vacuum cleaner. I think Free Expansion experiments simply demonstrates how rapidly gas will enter a vacuum and cause no work to be done. The gas molecules rushing out the rocket nozzle are in contact with each other, bouncing off each other, causing millions of collisions per second, etc… If you release gas into the vacuum of space, the first molecule that pops out will shoot off into the distance at a constant speed, so will the one behind that, never catching up with the first one. The third, fourth, etc… all fly off into the distance trying to fill the vacuum by finding their empty corner. So no matter how much exhaust you release in the vacuum of space none of it will ever satisfy Newton’s third law and the rocket will simply fall back to Earth…sorry.

This is spot on.
Gas molecules will all be flying around in random directions, in a pressurised container, exerting force equally on all sides of that container. If you were to then remove one side, then the gas molecules already moving towards that side would fly into the vacuum and exert no force.


All this below is wrong, you need to brush up on rocket propulsion.

All the other molecules would still travel in the same directions and impact the other walls of the container exerting force. You now have a container where one side is experiencing force and the opposite side isn't, resulting in a net force in one direction causing acceleration.

After the molecules hit the walls and other molecules bounce in they will gradually leave via the empty side into the vacuum.

If you then keep filling the container with new molecules the net force on one side will continue and you get prolonged acceleration. This is how a rocket works. Very simple.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell