People on skateboards.

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Papa Legba

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People on skateboards.
« on: September 30, 2015, 04:20:23 PM »
Here is a thread for satanic sci-fi cultists to post photos/videos of people on skateboards that they think somehow prove that rockets will function in a vacuum.

Newton, Joules & Thomson will be spinning in their graves at such nonsense, but I guess these cultists are too satanically brainwashed to comprehend how basic scientific principles work...

Whatever; knock yourselves out, psychos!
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29silhouette

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 06:14:25 PM »
Don't hate just because you don't know how a rocket works.

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TexasH

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 06:50:34 PM »
Why wouldn't a rocket work in a vacuum?

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 07:14:14 PM »
Because there's nothing for the exhaust to push against.  Duh.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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TexasH

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 07:39:58 PM »
Ah, he lacks an understanding of basic physics.  Force balance equations are your friend.  A force balance equation would actually show you that a rocket works better in a vacuum.

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TheEngineer

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 09:38:52 PM »
Momentum, conservation of.

The end. 

Turn off the lights and lock the thread.


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guv

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 10:17:26 PM »
Jet boats work better when the water jet is above water. Wonder why?.

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tappet

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 10:54:22 PM »

Because there's nothing for the exhaust to push against.  Duh.
Ah, he lacks an understanding of basic physics.  Force balance equations are your friend.  A force balance equation would actually show you that a rocket works better in a vacuum.
TexasH, are you commenting on the FEer  comment just before yours?

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 11:58:24 PM »
Expansion of gas, Free, in a Vacuum.

The end.

Turn off your brains & go back to sleep.
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Mainframes

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2015, 12:47:54 AM »
Expansion of gas, Free, in a Vacuum.

The end.

Turn off your brains & go back to sleep.

Ha ha ha ha! Free expansion of a gas is applicable only in a closed system such as a piston. This is not a closed system.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2015, 01:01:53 AM »
LOL!!!

No, numbskull; it's conservation of momentum that's only applicable to a closed system.

Free Expansion will occur whenever any pressurised gas is introduced into any vacuum.

& in a vacuum as large & hard as 'space' allegedly is, that means BIG problems for a GAS-powered rocket...

Really; you need to go howl your madness at Newton, Joules & Thomson, not me.

For its their laws you are arguing against.
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schteeben

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2015, 03:20:07 AM »
Well...
Ever seen FAIL videos where people get slammed in the face by the gun after firing a shot? That's caused by conservation of momentum.

The force that the explosion used on the bullet has an equal and opposite reaction force back towards the gun.

That's why the gum slams back.

The same CoM applies in vacuum where if you fire a bullet, you would physically be pushed back because you are not attached to anything, so the movement will actually be more significant in space.
Imagine the gas rocket as a huge gun firing trillions of gas particles into space, although each pushes the spaceship the opposite direction a tiny amount, together they make it move.

(And yes I know guns don't work in space cuz there's no oxygen and explosion and stuff, but I'm just using it as an example.)

EDIT:
Actually guns can work in space cuz they come with their own oxydiser, as it turns out ;)
http://www.livescience.com/18588-shoot-gun-space.html
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 03:23:50 AM by schteeben »

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chtwrone

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2015, 03:33:10 AM »
Here is a thread for satanic sci-fi cultists to post photos/videos of people on skateboards that they think somehow prove that rockets will function in a vacuum.

Newton, Joules & Thomson will be spinning in their graves at such nonsense, but I guess these cultists are too satanically brainwashed to comprehend how basic scientific principles work...

Whatever; knock yourselves out, psychos!


The following quote from a previous post on another thread shows the complete lack of understanding shown by PL, and is as follows -

'A rocket & its exhaust are NOT Object A & Object B in a Newton 3 scenario; it is clear to a child that they both move together & are part of the same thing.

The combustED gases may trail off; but the combustING gases stay with the rocket at all times.

As previously stated, the 'man on skateboard' FALSE rocketry analogy is clearly more suited to describing the recoil from a gun.


Thus, the ball (Object A), represents the projectile; the skateboard (Object B) represents the gun; & the man, in THRUSTING or APPLYING PRESSURE/FORCE upon the ball represents the propulsive charge (i.e. gunpowder or such).'


Laughably, he has no idea where the skateboard fits into the experiment. He doesn't even realise that the skateboard is only there to act as a simulated frictionless platform on which to put the experiment on. I would have to assume, that if the experiment was conducted on an ice rink, PL would then state that the ice skates also represented the gun or Object B, as he also labels the skateboard as the gun or Object B?

In the 'man throwing ball' experiment, Object A is the ball, and Object B is the man - this is quite simple.

He actually understands that Object A is the ball, but then loses the plot altogether, and remarkably labels the skateboard Object B, when in actual fact, the skateboard's only purpose is to act as a platform on which to base the experiment.

In another example of pure stupidity, PL can't even see the comparison between a cannon firing a cannonball, and the man throwing a ball, even though it's obvious that exactly the same conservation of momentum laws are being applied.

A cannon 'throws' a cannonball in EXACTLY the same way as a man 'throws' a ball - what's the difference?
Obviously the man is forced in the opposite direction to the ball he has just thrown, just as the cannon is forced in the opposite direction to the cannonball which the cannon has just 'thrown'.


And here's another laughable statement made previously by PL in another thread -

'In fact, it is the man's ARM, in throwing (i.e. imparting THRUST upon) the ball, that represents the exhaust; whilst the BALL represents an external mass such as the atmosphere .'


In this above statement, PL now tells us that the ball actually isn't Object A at all, and it somehow 'represents an external mass such as the atmosphere'?
And deary me, he actually thinks the man's arm, which is providing thrust to the ball, represents the exhaust?  No, no, no, the ball is the exhaust - how anyone can get this wrong is beyond me, but why am I not surprised that a few 'special' people can get it soooooooooooo wrong.

It is patently clear from the above, that PL's level of understanding about conservation of momentum laws, and how to correctly label components in an experiment, is virtually non-existent.

Yet, he thinks that he can base his arguments on these obvious mistakes, and then wonders why he gains no credibility with his posts.

Naively, he thinks we can't see through his ignorance, but sorry to inform you PL, you ignorance is out in the wide open for everybody to see, and this becomes more and more apparent with each subsequent post you make on the subject.
Well done NASA - 12 men on the moon and back again.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2015, 03:54:24 AM »
LULZ!!!

Wtf did all that gibberish mean, chtwrone?

Words aren't Reality, frenzied psycho.

COM only applies to Closed Systems; fine when you're talking about your man on a skateboard, but not so much when you're talking about a gas-filled rocket in a practically-infinite vacuum, which is pretty much the definition of an Open System.

Free Expansion will occur when a rocket releases gas into a vacuum; the internal & external pressures will equalise without any work being done.

The rocket will go Nowhere.

Because you cannot Push against Nothing.

If you disagree, take it up with Newton, Joules & Thomson; for it is THEIR laws you are arguing against.

Bye-bye!
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schteeben

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2015, 04:29:30 AM »
COM only applies to Closed Systems.
Where in any scientific journals/articles/theories/theorems/laws is this specified, exactly?

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2015, 06:04:56 AM »
LULZ!!!

You're actually trying to re-write the laws of physics now..?

You've only made four posts & every single one of them is gibberish; good work, schteeben; 100% Fail!
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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2015, 06:29:06 AM »
LOL!!!

No, numbskull; it's conservation of momentum that's only applicable to a closed system.

Free Expansion will occur whenever any pressurised gas is introduced into any vacuum.
Then it's a good thing that the main action/reaction between the expanding gasses and the rocket happens within the combustion chamber of the rocket engine and not in the vacuum of space.

Also, free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.  Are you suggesting that a rocket's exhaust gasses do not have any mass?

Really; you need to go howl your madness at Newton, Joules & Thomson, not me.

For its their laws you are arguing against.
On the contrary, those are the laws that, when properly applied, make space flight possible.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2015, 07:58:38 AM »
free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.

LULZ!!!

You're making this up as you go along & it is hilarious!

Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.
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TheEngineer

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2015, 08:46:23 AM »
Momentum, conservation of.

The end. 

Turn off the lights and lock the thread.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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sokarul

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2015, 08:49:10 AM »
free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.

LULZ!!!

You're making this up as you go along & it is hilarious!

Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.

Lol

Newton's third law is applied before the exhaust enters space. Not that it matters as the exhaust isn't pushing if atmosphere to propel a rocket.

Lol


Lol
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 09:07:22 AM by sokarul »
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TexasH

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2015, 09:07:39 AM »

Because there's nothing for the exhaust to push against.  Duh.
Ah, he lacks an understanding of basic physics.  Force balance equations are your friend.  A force balance equation would actually show you that a rocket works better in a vacuum.
TexasH, are you commenting on the FEer  comment just before yours?
No.

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Yendor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2015, 09:12:48 AM »
free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.

LULZ!!!

You're making this up as you go along & it is hilarious!

Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.

Lol

Newton's third law is applied before the exhaust enters space. Not that it matters as the exhaust isn't pushing if atmosphere to propel a rocket.

Lol


Lol

sokarul, Do you think a rocket would work just fine if the exhaust nozzles were pointed out the side of the rocket and not pointed down?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
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TexasH

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2015, 09:15:08 AM »
Well...
Ever seen FAIL videos where people get slammed in the face by the gun after firing a shot? That's caused by conservation of momentum.

The force that the explosion used on the bullet has an equal and opposite reaction force back towards the gun.

That's why the gum slams back.

The same CoM applies in vacuum where if you fire a bullet, you would physically be pushed back because you are not attached to anything, so the movement will actually be more significant in space.
Imagine the gas rocket as a huge gun firing trillions of gas particles into space, although each pushes the spaceship the opposite direction a tiny amount, together they make it move.

(And yes I know guns don't work in space cuz there's no oxygen and explosion and stuff, but I'm just using it as an example.)

EDIT:
Actually guns can work in space cuz they come with their own oxydiser, as it turns out ;)
http://www.livescience.com/18588-shoot-gun-space.html

Yep, guns will work in space.  They work underwater as well.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

A gun firing is a very good analogy to use here.  The rocket is the gun, explosion exiting the nozzle at the bottom is the bullet being fired, the recoil is what moves the rocket.

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sokarul

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2015, 09:18:17 AM »
free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.

LULZ!!!

You're making this up as you go along & it is hilarious!

Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.

Lol

Newton's third law is applied before the exhaust enters space. Not that it matters as the exhaust isn't pushing if atmosphere to propel a rocket.

Lol


Lol

sokarul, Do you think a rocket would work just fine if the exhaust nozzles were pointed out the side of the rocket and not pointed down?
No. Why would I think that? I actually know what I'm talking about.
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TheEngineer

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2015, 09:29:48 AM »
free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.

LULZ!!!

You're making this up as you go along & it is hilarious!

Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.

Lol

Newton's third law is applied before the exhaust enters space. Not that it matters as the exhaust isn't pushing if atmosphere to propel a rocket.

Lol


Lol

sokarul, Do you think a rocket would work just fine if the exhaust nozzles were pointed out the side of the rocket and not pointed down?
No. Why would I think that? I actually know what I'm talking about.
Uh, yes it would still work.  The physical location of the nozzle has no bearing on the physics of the rocket engine.  It may fly sideways (attitude control, anyone?) but it is still a rocket.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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sokarul

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2015, 09:36:57 AM »
free expansion assumes an ideal gas with no mass.

LULZ!!!

You're making this up as you go along & it is hilarious!

Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.

Lol

Newton's third law is applied before the exhaust enters space. Not that it matters as the exhaust isn't pushing if atmosphere to propel a rocket.

Lol


Lol

sokarul, Do you think a rocket would work just fine if the exhaust nozzles were pointed out the side of the rocket and not pointed down?
No. Why would I think that? I actually know what I'm talking about.
Uh, yes it would still work.  The physical location of the nozzle has no bearing on the physics of the rocket engine.  It may fly sideways (attitude control, anyone?) but it is still a rocket.
A rocket will not "work just fine" with the nozzle pointing 90 degrees the wrong way unless you think "work just fine" means spinning in a circle until it crashes.
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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2015, 09:51:32 AM »
Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.
Then it's a good thing that no one is claiming that it does.  We are claiming that the work is being done in the combustion chamber of the rocket engine, not in the vacuum of space. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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TheEngineer

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2015, 09:52:32 AM »
A rocket will not "work just fine" with the nozzle pointing 90 degrees the wrong way unless you think "work just fine" means spinning in a circle until it crashes.
The purpose of an attitude control thruster is to provide a moment about the center of mass of a rocket body.  Oh, and they work just fine.

Again, the physical location of the engine does not negate the physics of said engine. 


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sokarul

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2015, 10:01:26 AM »
A rocket will not "work just fine" with the nozzle pointing 90 degrees the wrong way unless you think "work just fine" means spinning in a circle until it crashes.
The purpose of an attitude control thruster is to provide a moment about the center of mass of a rocket body.  Oh, and they work just fine.

Again, the physical location of the engine does not negate the physics of said engine.
He isn't talking about those. Pay attention. He was asking if I think nozzles don't do anything related to movement, like the tail pipe of a car. 
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Yendor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2015, 10:10:29 AM »
Note to neutrals: free expansion is also known as Joules expansion or the Joules-Thomson effect. It states quite categorically that a gas can do no work in a vacuum.
Then it's a good thing that no one is claiming that it does.  We are claiming that the work is being done in the combustion chamber of the rocket engine, not in the vacuum of space.

You guys are confusing me. If the work, meaning what causes it to fly in a vacuum, is being done in the combustion chamber of the rocket engine and the expelling gasses out the nozzle is not doing any of the work, then it shouldn't matter where the exhaust nozzles are pointed. Simple little control surfaces should do the trick of steering it just fine. What I'm suggesting should also work just fine in the atmosphere as well. If not, Please explain.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
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