Gravity = Air Pressure

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #330 on: February 24, 2015, 07:10:52 AM »
Then why does everything fall back down?  Why not fly to the left, the right, or up?  Why down?
Any mass/density on the ground is under pressure. To raise that mass/density you need a force higher than the force keeping it on the ground. In this case it's your hand. That force is still encasing that ball's mass and is always pushing back against that ball's mass/density that's displaced that atmosphere.
You push the ball up and you compress the air above it. That air will force it back down to try and equalise because you created a lower pressure underneath the ball as you lift it up against the higher pressure you're compressing the air above with it.
Why when a ball is thrown to the right and up, does it continue traveling right as denpressure pushes it back to the ground?  Why doesn't it get pushed back to the thrower's hand?
Because the atmosphere is stacked, so as you use energy to throw up and away from you, the ball compresses that atmosphere which pushes back. So you simply get an arc as it's being pushed back against for the duration of that peak energy.
But why doesn't the ball compress the air to the right of it and get pushed back?  Isn't your view of the earth inside a sealed ice dome?  Why just down?  What causes the air to be stacked if there isn't anything pushing down on the air?  How does it know down?
When I know you're serious about understanding it I might explain it to you. In the frame of mind you're in asking these questions, all it tells me is, you have took no notice whatsoever of what I told you before.
If you can't grasp what stacked means, how are you ever going to grasp the rest of it all.
This makes me think that you learn nothing and anything you appear to learn is simply what you cherry pick from google or some science book, then pass it off as if you know what you're talking about.
Prove to me you're not a dummy and I'll play along with you.

Don't come back to me unless you grasp what stacked means, inside a dome.

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BJ1234

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #331 on: February 24, 2015, 07:15:19 AM »
Then why does everything fall back down?  Why not fly to the left, the right, or up?  Why down?
Any mass/density on the ground is under pressure. To raise that mass/density you need a force higher than the force keeping it on the ground. In this case it's your hand. That force is still encasing that ball's mass and is always pushing back against that ball's mass/density that's displaced that atmosphere.
You push the ball up and you compress the air above it. That air will force it back down to try and equalise because you created a lower pressure underneath the ball as you lift it up against the higher pressure you're compressing the air above with it.
Why when a ball is thrown to the right and up, does it continue traveling right as denpressure pushes it back to the ground?  Why doesn't it get pushed back to the thrower's hand?
Because the atmosphere is stacked, so as you use energy to throw up and away from you, the ball compresses that atmosphere which pushes back. So you simply get an arc as it's being pushed back against for the duration of that peak energy.
But why doesn't the ball compress the air to the right of it and get pushed back?  Isn't your view of the earth inside a sealed ice dome?  Why just down?  What causes the air to be stacked if there isn't anything pushing down on the air?  How does it know down?
When I know you're serious about understanding it I might explain it to you. In the frame of mind you're in asking these questions, all it tells me is, you have took no notice whatsoever of what I told you before.
If you can't grasp what stacked means, how are you ever going to grasp the rest of it all.
This makes me think that you learn nothing and anything you appear to learn is simply what you cherry pick from google or some science book, then pass it off as if you know what you're talking about.
Prove to me you're not a dummy and I'll play along with you.

Don't come back to me unless you grasp what stacked means, inside a dome.
So in other words, you can't explain the simple action of throwing a ball with your denpressure.  Gotcha.
And I do know what stacked means.  What I want to know is why in the downward direction?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #332 on: February 24, 2015, 07:23:09 AM »
Then why does everything fall back down?  Why not fly to the left, the right, or up?  Why down?
Any mass/density on the ground is under pressure. To raise that mass/density you need a force higher than the force keeping it on the ground. In this case it's your hand. That force is still encasing that ball's mass and is always pushing back against that ball's mass/density that's displaced that atmosphere.
You push the ball up and you compress the air above it. That air will force it back down to try and equalise because you created a lower pressure underneath the ball as you lift it up against the higher pressure you're compressing the air above with it.
Why when a ball is thrown to the right and up, does it continue traveling right as denpressure pushes it back to the ground?  Why doesn't it get pushed back to the thrower's hand?
Because the atmosphere is stacked, so as you use energy to throw up and away from you, the ball compresses that atmosphere which pushes back. So you simply get an arc as it's being pushed back against for the duration of that peak energy.
But why doesn't the ball compress the air to the right of it and get pushed back?  Isn't your view of the earth inside a sealed ice dome?  Why just down?  What causes the air to be stacked if there isn't anything pushing down on the air?  How does it know down?
When I know you're serious about understanding it I might explain it to you. In the frame of mind you're in asking these questions, all it tells me is, you have took no notice whatsoever of what I told you before.
If you can't grasp what stacked means, how are you ever going to grasp the rest of it all.
This makes me think that you learn nothing and anything you appear to learn is simply what you cherry pick from google or some science book, then pass it off as if you know what you're talking about.
Prove to me you're not a dummy and I'll play along with you.

Don't come back to me unless you grasp what stacked means, inside a dome.
So in other words, you can't explain the simple action of throwing a ball with your denpressure.  Gotcha.
And I do know what stacked means.  What I want to know is why in the downward direction?
Asking me why in the downward direction then telling me you know what stacked means. Nahhhh. Come back when you actually understand it. I have no issue in explaining things to people with a brain. Get one and come back to me.

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BJ1234

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #333 on: February 24, 2015, 07:25:53 AM »
Then why does everything fall back down?  Why not fly to the left, the right, or up?  Why down?
Any mass/density on the ground is under pressure. To raise that mass/density you need a force higher than the force keeping it on the ground. In this case it's your hand. That force is still encasing that ball's mass and is always pushing back against that ball's mass/density that's displaced that atmosphere.
You push the ball up and you compress the air above it. That air will force it back down to try and equalise because you created a lower pressure underneath the ball as you lift it up against the higher pressure you're compressing the air above with it.
Why when a ball is thrown to the right and up, does it continue traveling right as denpressure pushes it back to the ground?  Why doesn't it get pushed back to the thrower's hand?
Because the atmosphere is stacked, so as you use energy to throw up and away from you, the ball compresses that atmosphere which pushes back. So you simply get an arc as it's being pushed back against for the duration of that peak energy.
But why doesn't the ball compress the air to the right of it and get pushed back?  Isn't your view of the earth inside a sealed ice dome?  Why just down?  What causes the air to be stacked if there isn't anything pushing down on the air?  How does it know down?
When I know you're serious about understanding it I might explain it to you. In the frame of mind you're in asking these questions, all it tells me is, you have took no notice whatsoever of what I told you before.
If you can't grasp what stacked means, how are you ever going to grasp the rest of it all.
This makes me think that you learn nothing and anything you appear to learn is simply what you cherry pick from google or some science book, then pass it off as if you know what you're talking about.
Prove to me you're not a dummy and I'll play along with you.

Don't come back to me unless you grasp what stacked means, inside a dome.
So in other words, you can't explain the simple action of throwing a ball with your denpressure.  Gotcha.
And I do know what stacked means.  What I want to know is why in the downward direction?
Asking me why in the downward direction then telling me you know what stacked means. Nahhhh. Come back when you actually understand it. I have no issue in explaining things to people with a brain. Get one and come back to me.
You do have an issue with explaining to people.  Because when asked a question a 5 year old would think of, you sidestep it.

So why the downward direction?  Why to to the left or to the right or up?  Why down? 

Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #334 on: February 24, 2015, 07:31:14 AM »
Sceptic, I think you are missing the point. According to yourself, everything is touching everything. So when I move something to the left, it compresses the air creating a region of lower pressure to the right; this should result in the object being pushed back to the right (and vice versa). Clearly this doesn't happen. There's something special about one specific direction (down) that your model doesn't explain.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #335 on: February 24, 2015, 07:35:58 AM »
Then why does everything fall back down?  Why not fly to the left, the right, or up?  Why down?
Any mass/density on the ground is under pressure. To raise that mass/density you need a force higher than the force keeping it on the ground. In this case it's your hand. That force is still encasing that ball's mass and is always pushing back against that ball's mass/density that's displaced that atmosphere.
You push the ball up and you compress the air above it. That air will force it back down to try and equalise because you created a lower pressure underneath the ball as you lift it up against the higher pressure you're compressing the air above with it.
Why when a ball is thrown to the right and up, does it continue traveling right as denpressure pushes it back to the ground?  Why doesn't it get pushed back to the thrower's hand?
Because the atmosphere is stacked, so as you use energy to throw up and away from you, the ball compresses that atmosphere which pushes back. So you simply get an arc as it's being pushed back against for the duration of that peak energy.
But why doesn't the ball compress the air to the right of it and get pushed back?  Isn't your view of the earth inside a sealed ice dome?  Why just down?  What causes the air to be stacked if there isn't anything pushing down on the air?  How does it know down?
When I know you're serious about understanding it I might explain it to you. In the frame of mind you're in asking these questions, all it tells me is, you have took no notice whatsoever of what I told you before.
If you can't grasp what stacked means, how are you ever going to grasp the rest of it all.
This makes me think that you learn nothing and anything you appear to learn is simply what you cherry pick from google or some science book, then pass it off as if you know what you're talking about.
Prove to me you're not a dummy and I'll play along with you.

Don't come back to me unless you grasp what stacked means, inside a dome.
So in other words, you can't explain the simple action of throwing a ball with your denpressure.  Gotcha.
And I do know what stacked means.  What I want to know is why in the downward direction?
Asking me why in the downward direction then telling me you know what stacked means. Nahhhh. Come back when you actually understand it. I have no issue in explaining things to people with a brain. Get one and come back to me.
You do have an issue with explaining to people.  Because when asked a question a 5 year old would think of, you sidestep it.

So why the downward direction?  Why to to the left or to the right or up?  Why down?
Before I answer you I need to know if you are even dimply liy, never mind switched fully on.

Ok, I want you to tell me what stacked would mean under a dome.

Here's a scenario I'd like you to think of.
Imagine you are under a massive dome that is filling up from the ground with rubber balls (for instance).
Can you tell me where the most pressure would be and where the least pressure would be?

Also, once you've done that. I want you to tell me what would be easier.  If you held an iron ball in your hand, (bearing in mind your body is strong enough under the rubber balls to go about your life) what would happen if you tried to throw that iron ball up against the mass of rubber balls against throwing that iron ball horizontally into the rubber balls. Which would be easier and what would happen to the iron ball in both cases.

If you can't answer this, then I'll explain.
If I'm not giving you a depeiction of the atmosphere , then explain why not.

There's a few things to ponder over. If you come back to me with a load of tosh, consider this the last post to you. Fair enough?

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MattiNasa

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #336 on: February 24, 2015, 07:37:53 AM »
Very correct. This is exactly what happens. Lift falling would be another good example but the thing here is that your denpressure theory explains that the force that causes the motion downwards at free fall comes from the air pressure does it not? Only force acting inside the lift has to be coming from the pressure conditions inside the lift.
 Gravity and universal acceleration was abandoned, so cannot be them then. Or are you suggesting that air pressure penetrates always any barrier preventing us to manipulate air pressure locally at all?
So how does observer inside the lift or aircraft cabin know about the pressure conditions outside? It's an isolated pressure pocket. Using denpressure's own terms and little deduction you would expect that object inside the lift will fall or ascend always relative to the container that it is in because its dependent pressure conditions inside. Floating inside the lift cannot ever occur in this theory without a vacuum. But this floating does happen in your very own example, so where does the extra force come from that prevents object inside the pressure pocket to not move relative to the lift walls? Not saying anything about gravity but you need something fix the theory here.
To understand it all you have to understand that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Let's start...

To sum that up an object seeks equilibrium based on it's density. It goes up if its less dense than the air surrounding it and down if its more dense and can't pass through a solid ground. Atmosphere is stacked so that it's more dense on the bottom. Roger that and this is the only assumption I'am using to argue against denpressure along with principle of inertia and conservation of energy. I believe that in your explanation you accepted these as well.

In lift/aircraft example the key was isolation from it's surrounding air pressure. Air pressure outside the lift/aircraft is not equal to inside. There is an isolated mini atmosphere inside the aircraft. Door is closed and no windows. Can you measure or observe atmospheric conditions outside? Like train on constant motion. You cannot feel it unless the train is turning or accelerating/decelerating.

When free fall starts, experiencing from the inside suddenly you start to float. You don't fall towards the floor. How can this be explained via denpressure? What I can tell from your explanation this is possible in only if atmospheric pressure is zero or if density layers of cabin have disappeared and there is now a constant pressure.

Lets think about latter for a moment. When you hit the ground the atmospheric layering must re-appear or else there would be no weight. Then someone comes and turns the container you were in upside down. What happens inside? Obviously objects are not against sealing but what then appears to re-instate the stacking of air? What force is doing that and why are these stacks always orthogonal to earth? Don't air have inertia at all when you turn the container around?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #337 on: February 24, 2015, 07:42:10 AM »
Sceptic, I think you are missing the point. According to yourself, everything is touching everything. So when I move something to the left, it compresses the air creating a region of lower pressure to the right; this should result in the object being pushed back to the right (and vice versa). Clearly this doesn't happen. There's something special about one specific direction (down) that your model doesn't explain.
You are more compressed from the top due to stacking than you are left or right.
When you compress something to your left or right you are compressing in that direction but also compressing the atmosphere above and below. This causes all of it to fill the lower pressure you leave behind when you push that ball in that direction.
Your ball's own mass ensures that the atmosphere is compressed by that amount of mass it displaces by how dense it is, meaning how much atmosphere it can repel instead of absorb, meaning an iron ball will displace more atmosphere than a rubber one, because a rubber ball will already have some much atmosphere absorbed into it so displaces less.


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BJ1234

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #338 on: February 24, 2015, 07:44:36 AM »
Then why does everything fall back down?  Why not fly to the left, the right, or up?  Why down?
Any mass/density on the ground is under pressure. To raise that mass/density you need a force higher than the force keeping it on the ground. In this case it's your hand. That force is still encasing that ball's mass and is always pushing back against that ball's mass/density that's displaced that atmosphere.
You push the ball up and you compress the air above it. That air will force it back down to try and equalise because you created a lower pressure underneath the ball as you lift it up against the higher pressure you're compressing the air above with it.
Why when a ball is thrown to the right and up, does it continue traveling right as denpressure pushes it back to the ground?  Why doesn't it get pushed back to the thrower's hand?
Because the atmosphere is stacked, so as you use energy to throw up and away from you, the ball compresses that atmosphere which pushes back. So you simply get an arc as it's being pushed back against for the duration of that peak energy.
But why doesn't the ball compress the air to the right of it and get pushed back?  Isn't your view of the earth inside a sealed ice dome?  Why just down?  What causes the air to be stacked if there isn't anything pushing down on the air?  How does it know down?
When I know you're serious about understanding it I might explain it to you. In the frame of mind you're in asking these questions, all it tells me is, you have took no notice whatsoever of what I told you before.
If you can't grasp what stacked means, how are you ever going to grasp the rest of it all.
This makes me think that you learn nothing and anything you appear to learn is simply what you cherry pick from google or some science book, then pass it off as if you know what you're talking about.
Prove to me you're not a dummy and I'll play along with you.

Don't come back to me unless you grasp what stacked means, inside a dome.
So in other words, you can't explain the simple action of throwing a ball with your denpressure.  Gotcha.
And I do know what stacked means.  What I want to know is why in the downward direction?
Asking me why in the downward direction then telling me you know what stacked means. Nahhhh. Come back when you actually understand it. I have no issue in explaining things to people with a brain. Get one and come back to me.
You do have an issue with explaining to people.  Because when asked a question a 5 year old would think of, you sidestep it.

So why the downward direction?  Why to to the left or to the right or up?  Why down?
Before I answer you I need to know if you are even dimply liy, never mind switched fully on.

Ok, I want you to tell me what stacked would mean under a dome.

Here's a scenario I'd like you to think of.
Imagine you are under a massive dome that is filling up from the ground with rubber balls (for instance).
Can you tell me where the most pressure would be and where the least pressure would be?
Is this with or without gravity?
With gravity, more pressure from the top pushing down.
Without gravity, equal pressure from all sides.
Quote
Also, once you've done that. I want you to tell me what would be easier.  If you held an iron ball in your hand, (bearing in mind your body is strong enough under the rubber balls to go about your life) what would happen if you tried to throw that iron ball up against the mass of rubber balls against throwing that iron ball horizontally into the rubber balls. Which would be easier and what would happen to the iron ball in both cases.
It wouldn't matter which direction I throw it.  If there is no gravity, and only the resistance of the material I am in effects the ball, then I believe this would happen.
If there is resistance to the movement, and enough so that it would return the iron ball to my hand if I throw it up, then if I throw it to the right, it would return to my hand. Thrown to the left, it would return to my hand.  Thrown downward, it would return to my hand.
Quote
If you can't answer this, then I'll explain.
If I'm not giving you a depeiction of the atmosphere , then explain why not.

There's a few things to ponder over. If you come back to me with a load of tosh, consider this the last post to you. Fair enough?
What do you consider a load of tosh? Anything that goes against your views?  In that case, please explain why my above description is wrong.
Also, I have just decided that if denpressure works as you say, it actually supports a round earth.

Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #339 on: February 24, 2015, 07:45:41 AM »
Quote
Here's a scenario I'd like you to think of.
Imagine you are under a massive dome that is filling up from the ground with rubber balls (for instance).
Can you tell me where the most pressure would be and where the least pressure would be?
Assuming the rubber balls are all the same (same mass, made of the same material, same size), that the pressure would be solely due to the rubber balls and taking out every outside force, the pressure would be equal all around.

edit: BJ1234 beat me to it

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BJ1234

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #340 on: February 24, 2015, 07:48:50 AM »
Sceptic, I think you are missing the point. According to yourself, everything is touching everything. So when I move something to the left, it compresses the air creating a region of lower pressure to the right; this should result in the object being pushed back to the right (and vice versa). Clearly this doesn't happen. There's something special about one specific direction (down) that your model doesn't explain.
You are more compressed from the top due to stacking than you are left or right.
Why are you more compressed from the top?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #341 on: February 24, 2015, 08:17:23 AM »
To sum that up an object seeks equilibrium based on it's density. It goes up if its less dense than the air surrounding it and down if its more dense and can't pass through a solid ground. Atmosphere is stacked so that it's more dense on the bottom. Roger that and this is the only assumption I'am using to argue against denpressure along with principle of inertia and conservation of energy. I believe that in your explanation you accepted these as well.
No. An object doesn't. Atmosphere does. The object interferes with equilibrium when in motion by energy applied to it.

In lift/aircraft example the key was isolation from it's surrounding air pressure. Air pressure outside the lift/aircraft is not equal to inside. There is an isolated mini atmosphere inside the aircraft. Door is closed and no windows. Can you measure or observe atmospheric conditions outside? Like train on constant motion. You cannot feel it unless the train is turning or accelerating/decelerating.
Ok, hopefully you may get this.

Let's use a train as an example.
Inside that carriage at rest, you are equal in pressure to the outside. Fair enough?
Ok, once that carriage starts to move, you are now changing that pressure acting upon you. You are changing it into compressed air without freedom of escape, unlike the air outside that is compressing but can escape over the actual carriage itself.

Try and think hard on this because it's key to undertstanding.
You see, once you are in motion in that carriage, your body is under more pressure. It's minor but it's there. It becomes stronger depending on acceleration. As soon as the carriage becomes a constant speed, your body equalises insaide that carriage. You still don't notice any real pressure because of this equalisation.

Just for the sake of it, think of that carriage accelerating from that point, let's say you're doing 50 mph and in 5 seconds you have accelerated to 200 mph. You will feel this compression upon you because the air inssiode the carriage gets compressed to the back as the air outside seeps in to add to that pressure.
The result is, you get pushed back into your seat until that acceleration stops. Once that acceleration stops or becomes constant, you feel this as the compressed air what is being pushed to the back, evens up and equalises around you once again. You will feel this as a gentle push forward whilst equalisation takes place.
When free fall starts, experiencing from the inside suddenly you start to float. You don't fall towards the floor. How can this be explained via denpressure?
Denpressure is still evident from an outsiders point of view but is not evident from your point of view because the plane negated it by matching your fall rate.
What I can tell from your explanation this is possible in only if atmospheric pressure is zero or if density layers of cabin have disappeared and there is now a constant pressure.
The cabin is pressurised. Once that plane dives, it causes uneven air pressure. Basically the roof of the plane is pushing or compressing the air downwards but the plane is diving faster than it can push on you, so you basically push back on that, overcoming it easily with the aid of the planes power.
Lets think about latter for a moment. When you hit the ground the atmospheric layering must re-appear or else there would be no weight. Then someone comes and turns the container you were in upside down. What happens inside?
Ok, let's assume you're trapped in a glass ball under 15psi.
Your body takes up a certain amount of that ball pressure simply by your mass repelling it away from you.
The second you move, the atmosphere fills the area you were in whilst your mass/density has to displace the atmosphere you now put yourself in.

It's like putting a brick in a bucket of water. The water above is holding that brick on the bottom because that brick has displaced it's own mass/density against that water. A displacement and that displacement has to go somewhere, which it does. It goes right back above and around the brick, clamping it to the bottom.

That's all that's happening with us.

Obviously objects are not against sealing but what then appears to re-instate the stacking of air? What force is doing that and why are these stacks always orthogonal to earth? Don't air have inertia at all when you turn the container around?
All things push UP. The atmosphere is due to energy pushing things UP.
The more that energy pushes stuff UP, the more stacking there is and the more energy needed to push against.

Think of the Earth being flat as a pancake. Imagine the Earth has a big rubber membrane covering it. Let's call this , ice.
Ok now inside the Earth, energy pushes up solids and gases and liquids. It pushes up against the membrane which is now gaining in size. It's creating a dome.
The pressure needed to push up against it is minimal at first but as the gases build, they become more in mass and it takes a little more energy to push into it...and so on, until it becomes dense down below and less dense at or near the top.

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acenci

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #342 on: February 24, 2015, 08:19:12 AM »
We can all agree that Air pressure is a known and measurable force that allows Airplanes to Fly and keeps Cars on the ground when driving.

We are denser than air and less dense than water which is why we float on water and fall to the ground.

Just think, the air pressure is strong enough to hold a giant airplane in the air. Airplanes certainly aren't equipped with top-secret anti-gravity devices, so why do we believe in gravity?

Air pressure can exert an equal downward force on all objects which would explain why objects of different size and mass fall at the same speed.

Does the equation for gravity account for Air pressure?

I don't think so...

Wow, you have a gift for conciseness and simplicity.

Very clearly expressed concept. Thanks, iWitness. Now it is clear to me once and for all.

Here's a related video:

#noexternalembed-ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">There is no such force as gravity only topological insulator
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 08:21:26 AM by acenci »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #343 on: February 24, 2015, 08:22:41 AM »
Quote
Here's a scenario I'd like you to think of.
Imagine you are under a massive dome that is filling up from the ground with rubber balls (for instance).
Can you tell me where the most pressure would be and where the least pressure would be?
Assuming the rubber balls are all the same (same mass, made of the same material, same size), that the pressure would be solely due to the rubber balls and taking out every outside force, the pressure would be equal all around.

edit: BJ1234 beat me to it
All balls aren't the same. They are all under different pressures depending on where they are under the dome.
If you squash ball into balls then the balls at the bottom are going to be under more compression than those at the top. If you don't accept this, leave it at that because there's no way I'm explaining any further. It would be pointless.


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mikeman7918

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #344 on: February 24, 2015, 08:38:48 AM »
We can all agree that Air pressure is a known and measurable force that allows Airplanes to Fly and keeps Cars on the ground when driving.

We are denser than air and less dense than water which is why we float on water and fall to the ground.

Just think, the air pressure is strong enough to hold a giant airplane in the air. Airplanes certainly aren't equipped with top-secret anti-gravity devices, so why do we believe in gravity?

Air pressure can exert an equal downward force on all objects which would explain why objects of different size and mass fall at the same speed.

Does the equation for gravity account for Air pressure?

I don't think so...

Wow, you have a gift for conciseness and simplicity.

Very clearly expressed concept. Thanks, iWitness. Now it is clear to me once and for all.

Here's a related video:

#noexternalembed-ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">There is no such force as gravity only topological insulator

Airplanes accelerate down at 9.8m/s2 but they are also designed to generate 9.8m/s2 of lift from the wings, the wings create lower pressure on top then at the bottom, so the planes are held up by the resulting suction.  The reason why the Gravity equasion doesn't acount for air pressure is because it's the gravity equasion, not the air pressure equasion.  If you want to take air pressure into account then you can use the proper equations for that, although air pressure it's self doesn't effect the motion of objects unless you are talking about air resistance.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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neimoka

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #345 on: February 24, 2015, 08:42:00 AM »
There have been a few threads about scepti's Air Pressure Does Everything Theory(tm), and the gist of it seems to be that it's intended to replace gravity and inertia with some sort of air pressure action. I've seen scepti's explanations for how air pressure would keep an object in motion, but I don't think it has been discussed how air pressure would maintain rotational momentum? As in, set a suspended smooth wheel spinning and if it has any considerable weight it'll keep going for a good while even if the speed is not high, hardly disturbing the air around it, so it seems unlikely that any air pressure action would be responsible for the continued rotation.

I admit that I didn't read this thread through, so excuse me if it has come up already. Or should this be a new thread?

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #346 on: February 24, 2015, 08:46:37 AM »
Because it's stacked from the ground up, meaning more mass at ground level and less mass above due to compression build up of the stack.
Think of it like running a bath which just happens to be a dome covered bath. You fill that bath to the top. Which has more pressure? bottom of the bath or top of the bath dome?
The bottom of the bath because there is already a force pulling/pushing it down. You can't use the existence of such a force to explain the force. Without the force already existing, you could just as easily say it's stacked from dome up, because we can ignore the mass of the Earth and we should all be flying.
There should be no pressure at the edges of the dome (Earth and upper surface) without some force attracting the air to the edges.


Quote
It's not trivial at all. Nothing pulls at all and the sooner you understand this the sooner you'll see gravity as a lie.
Evidence?
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #347 on: February 24, 2015, 08:48:44 AM »
Quote
Here's a scenario I'd like you to think of.
Imagine you are under a massive dome that is filling up from the ground with rubber balls (for instance).
Can you tell me where the most pressure would be and where the least pressure would be?
Assuming the rubber balls are all the same (same mass, made of the same material, same size), that the pressure would be solely due to the rubber balls and taking out every outside force, the pressure would be equal all around.

edit: BJ1234 beat me to it
All balls aren't the same. They are all under different pressures depending on where they are under the dome.
If you squash ball into balls then the balls at the bottom are going to be under more compression than those at the top. If you don't accept this, leave it at that because there's no way I'm explaining any further. It would be pointless.
Please reread what I posted. I assumed that the pressure is only due to the balls. There's nothing else there. If you are saying that there's also air in this scenario, then your analogy fails because you still need to explain why there's more air pressure in the bottom. In the case of a dome filled only with rubber balls, the pressure due to these balls is the same everywhere (assuming also no gravity).

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #348 on: February 24, 2015, 08:56:46 AM »
There have been a few threads about scepti's Air Pressure Does Everything Theory(tm), and the gist of it seems to be that it's intended to replace gravity and inertia with some sort of air pressure action. I've seen scepti's explanations for how air pressure would keep an object in motion, but I don't think it has been discussed how air pressure would maintain rotational momentum? As in, set a suspended smooth wheel spinning and if it has any considerable weight it'll keep going for a good while even if the speed is not high, hardly disturbing the air around it, so it seems unlikely that any air pressure action would be responsible for the continued rotation.

I admit that I didn't read this thread through, so excuse me if it has come up already. Or should this be a new thread?
It's hardly disturbing the air around it to you but that doesn't mean it's not disturbing it at all, which is the key.

Just rememeber that the friction of it's pin on a surface is minimal and it has to balance. I can't balance without adding energy, as in, the finger and thumb spin or whatever energy is used.

Now from this point on, it becomes a circular glider on equal above and below air pressure but also creating a higher pressure on its edge which is compressing the air all around that edge as it spins. That air pressure pushes right back, keeping it in motion, until the energy applied weakens by friction.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #349 on: February 24, 2015, 08:58:45 AM »
Because it's stacked from the ground up, meaning more mass at ground level and less mass above due to compression build up of the stack.
Think of it like running a bath which just happens to be a dome covered bath. You fill that bath to the top. Which has more pressure? bottom of the bath or top of the bath dome?
The bottom of the bath because there is already a force pulling/pushing it down. You can't use the existence of such a force to explain the force. Without the force already existing, you could just as easily say it's stacked from dome up, because we can ignore the mass of the Earth and we should all be flying.
There should be no pressure at the edges of the dome (Earth and upper surface) without some force attracting the air to the edges.


Quote
It's not trivial at all. Nothing pulls at all and the sooner you understand this the sooner you'll see gravity as a lie.
Evidence?
I did try. Keep your eyes and ears closed. I have no more explaining to do with you.
Once you get that gravity crap out of your head - come back to me. If not, just carry on with what you are doing. I'm done with you.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #350 on: February 24, 2015, 09:02:57 AM »
Quote
Here's a scenario I'd like you to think of.
Imagine you are under a massive dome that is filling up from the ground with rubber balls (for instance).
Can you tell me where the most pressure would be and where the least pressure would be?
Assuming the rubber balls are all the same (same mass, made of the same material, same size), that the pressure would be solely due to the rubber balls and taking out every outside force, the pressure would be equal all around.

edit: BJ1234 beat me to it
All balls aren't the same. They are all under different pressures depending on where they are under the dome.
If you squash ball into balls then the balls at the bottom are going to be under more compression than those at the top. If you don't accept this, leave it at that because there's no way I'm explaining any further. It would be pointless.
Please reread what I posted. I assumed that the pressure is only due to the balls. There's nothing else there. If you are saying that there's also air in this scenario, then your analogy fails because you still need to explain why there's more air pressure in the bottom. In the case of a dome filled only with rubber balls, the pressure due to these balls is the same everywhere (assuming also no gravity).
And on this note i'm also done with you. I'm not expending another second trying to explain something to someone who cannot grasp the simplicity of what I've just explained.
You people stick to your gravity and just think of me as that tin foil hat. It's easier that way.
Anyone that's interested and who can use their rational brain, I have no problem explaining anything to you. Unlike these people here - trying to explain it to them is like showing a child that putting their fingers in the fire is not a good thing whilst that child fights against you so they can put their fingers in. It's pointless.

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #351 on: February 24, 2015, 09:03:35 AM »
Obviously objects are not against sealing but what then appears to re-instate the stacking of air? What force is doing that and why are these stacks always orthogonal to earth? Don't air have inertia at all when you turn the container around?
All things push UP. The atmosphere is due to energy pushing things UP.
The more that energy pushes stuff UP, the more stacking there is and the more energy needed to push against.

Now this is the interesting part here. What determines the UP after you start to rotate that container? How come the denpressure suggests that pressure layers in that container always keeps their ordering orthogonal to ground? Remember it's sealed. Not affected by the pressure outside.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #352 on: February 24, 2015, 09:09:37 AM »
Obviously objects are not against sealing but what then appears to re-instate the stacking of air? What force is doing that and why are these stacks always orthogonal to earth? Don't air have inertia at all when you turn the container around?
All things push UP. The atmosphere is due to energy pushing things UP.
The more that energy pushes stuff UP, the more stacking there is and the more energy needed to push against.

Now this is the interesting part here. What determines the UP after you start to rotate that container? How come the denpressure suggests that pressure layers in that container always keeps their ordering orthogonal to ground? Remember it's sealed. Not affected by the pressure outside.
Assuming someone rotated the ball into a spin then if you are in the very centre and balanced, you would go nowhere to the outer but probably rise up to the centre of the ball.
If you were out of balance, I.E you were a little off centre, then the rotation of the ball would force you towards the inner wall of that ball so anyone outside would see your face and body compressed against it.

This is neither here nor there though because the Earth doesn't spin.
The nearest thing you can try is to swim near a whirl pool and see what happens.

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #353 on: February 24, 2015, 09:12:06 AM »
I did try. Keep your eyes and ears closed. I have no more explaining to do with you.
Once you get that gravity crap out of your head - come back to me. If not, just carry on with what you are doing. I'm done with you.
Or you could try thinking. You require that air pushes down against the Earth, or any larger body. That is not me supposing gravity, that is what you need. Your entire understanding of air pressure stems from thinking about it in the context we see: a context with gravity (or UA, or some equivalent force, whatever). Remove that force. You cannot answer the question of what now makes air have pressure. It should be static: there is no stacking, because there is no way to stack in the absence of a force.

As best I can tell, you're arguing that there would be more collisions at solid boundaries, and that that imparts pressure. Not only does this need perpetual motion and some cause for said motion to work (force, again) else air would be static and so there'd be no collisions, the pressure would be balanced as the downwards force is countered by the upwards force as air goes away from the Earth.
There's no stacking. Stacking can't happen without a force. Plus, if this were the case, pressure should be decreasing as time goes by, until it all hangs equally spaced and static in the air.

So, no, you have a hell of a lot more explaining to do.

Further, vacuum chambers exist: chambers with all the air removed. is it your contention that all such chambers are faked? After all, at the very least a lot of air is removed. Some force still seems to hold objects down.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #354 on: February 24, 2015, 09:18:56 AM »
I did try. Keep your eyes and ears closed. I have no more explaining to do with you.
Once you get that gravity crap out of your head - come back to me. If not, just carry on with what you are doing. I'm done with you.
Or you could try thinking. You require that air pushes down against the Earth, or any larger body. That is not me supposing gravity, that is what you need. Your entire understanding of air pressure stems from thinking about it in the context we see: a context with gravity (or UA, or some equivalent force, whatever). Remove that force. You cannot answer the question of what now makes air have pressure. It should be static: there is no stacking, because there is no way to stack in the absence of a force.

As best I can tell, you're arguing that there would be more collisions at solid boundaries, and that that imparts pressure. Not only does this need perpetual motion and some cause for said motion to work (force, again) else air would be static and so there'd be no collisions, the pressure would be balanced as the downwards force is countered by the upwards force as air goes away from the Earth.
There's no stacking. Stacking can't happen without a force. Plus, if this were the case, pressure should be decreasing as time goes by, until it all hangs equally spaced and static in the air.

So, no, you have a hell of a lot more explaining to do.

Further, vacuum chambers exist: chambers with all the air removed. is it your contention that all such chambers are faked? After all, at the very least a lot of air is removed. Some force still seems to hold objects down.
The mere fact that you typed all this, shows me you didn't understand a word I've said and as basic as I could be with you.
I've come to the conclusion that you spend too much time reading and copying stuff than you ever do of taking any of it in to understand it.
Come back when you're ready.

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #355 on: February 24, 2015, 09:23:07 AM »
The mere fact that you typed all this, shows me you didn't understand a word I've said and as basic as I could be with you.

No one understands a word you've said because it is fundamentally incoherent. You cannot have pressure without force, whether it's a force to make air molecules move rather than hang static in a balanced formation, or one to draw them to the edges of your dome.

Don't act like the fact no one agrees with your contradictory notions is a fault with them rather than with you.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #356 on: February 24, 2015, 09:26:16 AM »
The mere fact that you typed all this, shows me you didn't understand a word I've said and as basic as I could be with you.

No one understands a word you've said because it is fundamentally incoherent. You cannot have pressure without force, whether it's a force to make air molecules move rather than hang static in a balanced formation, or one to draw them to the edges of your dome.

Don't act like the fact no one agrees with your contradictory notions is a fault with them rather than with you.
Save your energy, you're a complete waste of time. Come back when you are ready to actually understand it instead of trying to play games.

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #357 on: February 24, 2015, 09:27:47 AM »
Come back when you are ready to actually understand it instead of trying to play games.
I'm waiting to understand. I ask a question, you evade. I think everyone can conclude even you don't understand what you're proposing.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Rama Set

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #358 on: February 24, 2015, 09:31:37 AM »
Come back when you actually understand it. I have no issue in explaining things to people with a brain. Get one and come back to me.

You won't explain it until he understands it.  Good call.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Rama Set

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #359 on: February 24, 2015, 09:39:12 AM »
Come back when you are ready to actually understand it instead of trying to play games.
I'm waiting to understand. I ask a question, you evade. I think everyone can conclude even you don't understand what you're proposing.

Scepti proposes a tautology and does not see it as such and cannot stomach the disagreement so he has to lash out at everyone else.  He is the Ike Turner of FE theorists.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.