The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy

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The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« on: September 20, 2014, 08:39:02 AM »
All flat earthers believe, as they must do for their theory to be true, that there is a vast world-wide conspiracy of organizations and individuals that know the earth is flat but that want all of the common people to believe it is round.  But flat earthers don't seem to have a coherent explanation of the origin of the conspiracy.  NASA is often cited, but the roundness of the earth was common knowledge hundreds of years before NASA came along. For instance, Nicolaus Copernicus published his model of a Sun-centered universe (with earth orbiting the sun) back in the 1500's.  In the 1600's, Johannes Kepler did important work involving the mathematics of orbiting celestial bodies.  And of course we could name many more famous astronomers from any century.

So the question is, did Copernicus or another early astronomer decide that common people couldn't handle the truth about the earth's shape?  Did early scientists decide they could somehow make a lot more money if they lied to the world about the earth's shape?  Did the monarchies of Europe have a secret meeting 500 years ago where they made a pact about never revealing the truth?  And to this day, the British royal family and all other monarchies have kept the secret, enlisting the help of NASA and the Chinese space agency along the way?

What's your theory, flat earthers?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 03:17:48 PM »
So no flat-earther has any theory about when the great conspiracy started?  Once again, flat-earthers seem to be caught making claims that make no sense at all when they are pressed for any details.
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

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ausGeoff

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 08:40:08 AM »
Check this out...

The Flat-out Truth: Earth Orbits? Moon Landings? A Fraud! Says This Prophet

And yes; when faced with the difficult questions, most flat earthers head for the hills LOL.


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DonaldC

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 10:04:33 PM »
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
"Think of the average person. Now remember how stupid he is. Now realize half of them are dumber than that." George Carlin

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sceptimatic

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 03:42:57 AM »
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
The mere fact that you people come onto this forum to push a globe is testament to how easily people are in being duped. Don't you think that many many hundreds of years ago it would have been easier to dupe the masses?


Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2014, 05:07:52 AM »
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
The mere fact that you people come onto this forum to push a globe is testament to how easily people are in being duped. Don't you think that many many hundreds of years ago it would have been easier to dupe the masses?

I agree that long ago people were less educated and could be more easily duped.  But that doesn't mean they were duped about the shape of the earth.  The question is, who would have benefited from duping people about the shape of the earth 2000 years ago or 500 years ago?  Why would the people who first discovered that the earth was flat have decided that it would be better if common people thought it was round?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2014, 05:30:10 AM »
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
The mere fact that you people come onto this forum to push a globe is testament to how easily people are in being duped. Don't you think that many many hundreds of years ago it would have been easier to dupe the masses?
Yet still you do not show us a flag earth map or explain sunrise and sunset across the earth or how communication satellites work.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 05:46:20 AM »
I don't believe that anyone originally intended to "dupe" the masses.  They were simply wrong.  When the people at the top eventually realized how wrong they were, they had to save face by lying in order to keep their powers.  This likely occurred during the "space race". 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 06:34:26 AM by jroa »

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markjo

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2014, 06:09:33 AM »
No, I believe that it must have happened much earlier than that.  I'd say somewhere around the time that sailors started travelling well south of the equator and noticed that longitude lines didn't converge as they kept going south like they were supposed to.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 06:11:09 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2014, 06:35:04 AM »
Or, perhaps they were simply wrong before the space race? 

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2014, 06:40:22 AM »
I don't believe that anyone originally intended to "dupe" the masses.  They were simply wrong.  When the people at the eventually realized how wrong they were, they had to save face by lying in order to keep their powers.  This likely occurred during the "space race".

So is your theory the following? When people first started wondering about the shape of the earth, they concluded that it was round.  And this was the conventional wisdom until the 1960's when someone discovered that the earth was actually flat. So the Soviet Union and United States stepped up and said, "It would be really embarassing for those long-dead astronomers like Copernicus if word got out that they were wrong.  Let's do them a favor by continuing to tell people the earth is round even though now we know it's flat. Let's spend at least 50 years faking moon landings, Mars orbiters and satellites to try to keep up this charade as long as possible."

If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2014, 06:46:43 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 06:50:02 AM by jroa »

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markjo

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2014, 07:07:10 AM »
Or, perhaps they were simply wrong before the space race?
Well duh.  Sailors were travelling well south of the equator and would have noticed the longitude discrepancy hundreds years before the space race.  Never underestimate the powers of the Bavarian Globe Makers Guild.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2014, 07:15:35 AM »
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not? 

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markjo

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2014, 07:25:37 AM »
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
???  Are you drinking already?  What the th*rk does that have to do with longitude lines not converging like they're supposed to as you sail south of the equator? 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2014, 07:42:46 AM »
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
???  Are you drinking already?  What the th*rk does that have to do with longitude lines not converging like they're supposed to as you sail south of the equator? 

markjo, I suspect you are the one who is drinking again.  If you see something that is not true, then how can your testimony be true about what you saw? 

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2014, 08:02:36 AM »
If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
lolwot?   This is gibberish.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2014, 08:06:42 AM »
If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
lolwot?   This is gibberish.

Could you please learn English before posting again?  Thanks. 

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2014, 08:11:20 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2014, 08:15:55 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion? 

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Rama Set

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2014, 08:41:52 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?

You mentioned satellites.  Why do you turn it in to satellite discussions?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2014, 08:45:53 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?

You mentioned satellites.  Why do you turn it in to satellite discussions?
I am not the one who brought up satellites.  Please learn to read. 

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Rama Set

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2014, 08:50:46 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?

You mentioned satellites.  Why do you turn it in to satellite discussions?
I am not the one who brought up satellites.  Please learn to read.

I don't appreciate the personal attack Jroa.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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markjo

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2014, 09:54:15 AM »
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
???  Are you drinking already?  What the th*rk does that have to do with longitude lines not converging like they're supposed to as you sail south of the equator? 

markjo, I suspect you are the one who is drinking again.  If you see something that is not true, then how can your testimony be true about what you saw?
And I suspect that you are pathologically incapable of answering a question.

So, let me see if I understand your question.  Are you saying that people who see illusions are lying when they say that they saw an illusion?  What does the veracity of an observed phenomenon have to do with the veracity of the testimony about that observed phenomenon? 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2014, 10:23:55 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
If we can establish how something we use every day works then the whole flat earth discussion can move on.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2014, 11:50:29 AM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
If we can establish how something we use every day works then the whole flat earth discussion can move on.

You use satellites every day?  Do you have proof? 

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2014, 01:23:43 PM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.

So is this now your theory?: NASA and the Soviets tried time and again during the 1950s and 1960s to send rockets and satellites into space, but they failed every time. So finally, they secretly agreed to pretend that they were both able to do it successfully.  They tossed a coin to decide which country would claim a moon landing, and NASA won.  Fortunately, the Soviets were good sports and they kept their end of the bargain by not revealing the Apollo hoaxes.  And since that time, a lot of other countries have asked if they can be part of the conspiracy.  The latest was India, which just yesterday claims to have put a spacecraft into orbit around Mars.

Do I have this right, jroa?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2014, 01:49:41 PM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
If we can establish how something we use every day works then the whole flat earth discussion can move on.

You use satellites every day?  Do you have proof?
Yes, the angle of TV dishes and the operation of GPS.  And sunrise and sunset across the earth proves a round earth.

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ausGeoff

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2014, 05:12:39 PM »
Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?


Uh... it was actually you who "changed the subject" into a satellite discussion jroa.

You were the first to say:  "The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible..."

Can you please at least try and keep up, and maybe post a little less of your low content rhetorical one-liners?  Thanks.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2014, 07:08:24 PM »
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.

So is this now your theory?: NASA and the Soviets tried time and again during the 1950s and 1960s to send rockets and satellites into space, but they failed every time. So finally, they secretly agreed to pretend that they were both able to do it successfully.  They tossed a coin to decide which country would claim a moon landing, and NASA won.  Fortunately, the Soviets were good sports and they kept their end of the bargain by not revealing the Apollo hoaxes.  And since that time, a lot of other countries have asked if they can be part of the conspiracy.  The latest was India, which just yesterday claims to have put a spacecraft into orbit around Mars.

Do I have this right, jroa?

That sounds pretty plausible to me.  The Soviets were given the manned orbit, and the US was given the moon landings.