The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: FlatAllTheWay on September 20, 2014, 08:39:02 AM

Title: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 20, 2014, 08:39:02 AM
All flat earthers believe, as they must do for their theory to be true, that there is a vast world-wide conspiracy of organizations and individuals that know the earth is flat but that want all of the common people to believe it is round.  But flat earthers don't seem to have a coherent explanation of the origin of the conspiracy.  NASA is often cited, but the roundness of the earth was common knowledge hundreds of years before NASA came along. For instance, Nicolaus Copernicus published his model of a Sun-centered universe (with earth orbiting the sun) back in the 1500's.  In the 1600's, Johannes Kepler did important work involving the mathematics of orbiting celestial bodies.  And of course we could name many more famous astronomers from any century.

So the question is, did Copernicus or another early astronomer decide that common people couldn't handle the truth about the earth's shape?  Did early scientists decide they could somehow make a lot more money if they lied to the world about the earth's shape?  Did the monarchies of Europe have a secret meeting 500 years ago where they made a pact about never revealing the truth?  And to this day, the British royal family and all other monarchies have kept the secret, enlisting the help of NASA and the Chinese space agency along the way?

What's your theory, flat earthers?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 21, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
So no flat-earther has any theory about when the great conspiracy started?  Once again, flat-earthers seem to be caught making claims that make no sense at all when they are pressed for any details.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on September 22, 2014, 08:40:08 AM
Check this out...

The Flat-out Truth: Earth Orbits? Moon Landings? A Fraud! Says This Prophet (http://bit.ly/1shQqJH)

And yes; when faced with the difficult questions, most flat earthers head for the hills LOL.

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: DonaldC on September 23, 2014, 10:04:33 PM
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on September 24, 2014, 03:42:57 AM
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
The mere fact that you people come onto this forum to push a globe is testament to how easily people are in being duped. Don't you think that many many hundreds of years ago it would have been easier to dupe the masses?

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 24, 2014, 05:07:52 AM
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
The mere fact that you people come onto this forum to push a globe is testament to how easily people are in being duped. Don't you think that many many hundreds of years ago it would have been easier to dupe the masses?

I agree that long ago people were less educated and could be more easily duped.  But that doesn't mean they were duped about the shape of the earth.  The question is, who would have benefited from duping people about the shape of the earth 2000 years ago or 500 years ago?  Why would the people who first discovered that the earth was flat have decided that it would be better if common people thought it was round?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: inquisitive on September 24, 2014, 05:30:10 AM
The conspiracy must reach back about 2500 years. And about 2300 years ago Eratosthenes estimated the Earth's circumference. 

The Earth was well known to be round by educated people and even many poor folk. Columbus for instance was in disagreement about the size. He felt it was much smaller. He was in error.

Millions of peolpe over centuries would have had to been on this. Poppycock!
The mere fact that you people come onto this forum to push a globe is testament to how easily people are in being duped. Don't you think that many many hundreds of years ago it would have been easier to dupe the masses?
Yet still you do not show us a flag earth map or explain sunrise and sunset across the earth or how communication satellites work.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 05:46:20 AM
I don't believe that anyone originally intended to "dupe" the masses.  They were simply wrong.  When the people at the top eventually realized how wrong they were, they had to save face by lying in order to keep their powers.  This likely occurred during the "space race". 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 06:09:33 AM
No, I believe that it must have happened much earlier than that.  I'd say somewhere around the time that sailors started travelling well south of the equator and noticed that longitude lines didn't converge as they kept going south like they were supposed to.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 06:35:04 AM
Or, perhaps they were simply wrong before the space race? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 24, 2014, 06:40:22 AM
I don't believe that anyone originally intended to "dupe" the masses.  They were simply wrong.  When the people at the eventually realized how wrong they were, they had to save face by lying in order to keep their powers.  This likely occurred during the "space race".

So is your theory the following? When people first started wondering about the shape of the earth, they concluded that it was round.  And this was the conventional wisdom until the 1960's when someone discovered that the earth was actually flat. So the Soviet Union and United States stepped up and said, "It would be really embarassing for those long-dead astronomers like Copernicus if word got out that they were wrong.  Let's do them a favor by continuing to tell people the earth is round even though now we know it's flat. Let's spend at least 50 years faking moon landings, Mars orbiters and satellites to try to keep up this charade as long as possible."

If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 06:46:43 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 07:07:10 AM
Or, perhaps they were simply wrong before the space race?
Well duh.  Sailors were travelling well south of the equator and would have noticed the longitude discrepancy hundreds years before the space race.  Never underestimate the powers of the Bavarian Globe Makers Guild.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 07:15:35 AM
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 07:25:37 AM
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
???  Are you drinking already?  What the th*rk does that have to do with longitude lines not converging like they're supposed to as you sail south of the equator? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 07:42:46 AM
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
???  Are you drinking already?  What the th*rk does that have to do with longitude lines not converging like they're supposed to as you sail south of the equator? 

markjo, I suspect you are the one who is drinking again.  If you see something that is not true, then how can your testimony be true about what you saw? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on September 24, 2014, 08:02:36 AM
If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
lolwot?   This is gibberish.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 08:06:42 AM
If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
lolwot?   This is gibberish.

Could you please learn English before posting again?  Thanks. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: inquisitive on September 24, 2014, 08:11:20 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 08:15:55 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2014, 08:41:52 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?

You mentioned satellites.  Why do you turn it in to satellite discussions?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 08:45:53 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?

You mentioned satellites.  Why do you turn it in to satellite discussions?
I am not the one who brought up satellites.  Please learn to read. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2014, 08:50:46 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?

You mentioned satellites.  Why do you turn it in to satellite discussions?
I am not the one who brought up satellites.  Please learn to read.

I don't appreciate the personal attack Jroa.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
???  Are you drinking already?  What the th*rk does that have to do with longitude lines not converging like they're supposed to as you sail south of the equator? 

markjo, I suspect you are the one who is drinking again.  If you see something that is not true, then how can your testimony be true about what you saw?
And I suspect that you are pathologically incapable of answering a question.

So, let me see if I understand your question.  Are you saying that people who see illusions are lying when they say that they saw an illusion?  What does the veracity of an observed phenomenon have to do with the veracity of the testimony about that observed phenomenon? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: inquisitive on September 24, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
If we can establish how something we use every day works then the whole flat earth discussion can move on.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 11:50:29 AM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
If we can establish how something we use every day works then the whole flat earth discussion can move on.

You use satellites every day?  Do you have proof? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 24, 2014, 01:23:43 PM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.

So is this now your theory?: NASA and the Soviets tried time and again during the 1950s and 1960s to send rockets and satellites into space, but they failed every time. So finally, they secretly agreed to pretend that they were both able to do it successfully.  They tossed a coin to decide which country would claim a moon landing, and NASA won.  Fortunately, the Soviets were good sports and they kept their end of the bargain by not revealing the Apollo hoaxes.  And since that time, a lot of other countries have asked if they can be part of the conspiracy.  The latest was India, which just yesterday claims to have put a spacecraft into orbit around Mars.

Do I have this right, jroa?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: inquisitive on September 24, 2014, 01:49:41 PM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.
So prove how GPS that we all use works across the earth.

Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
If we can establish how something we use every day works then the whole flat earth discussion can move on.

You use satellites every day?  Do you have proof?
Yes, the angle of TV dishes and the operation of GPS.  And sunrise and sunset across the earth proves a round earth.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on September 24, 2014, 05:12:39 PM
Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?


Uh... it was actually you who "changed the subject" into a satellite discussion jroa.

You were the first to say:  "The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible..."

Can you please at least try and keep up, and maybe post a little less of your low content rhetorical one-liners?  Thanks.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 07:08:24 PM
If that is not your theory, please indicate how it differs from the above.

The super powers had been trying to put satellites into Newtonian orbit for years, and finally realized that it was impossible, so they started faking it in order to out do each other.  It is really not that complicated.

So is this now your theory?: NASA and the Soviets tried time and again during the 1950s and 1960s to send rockets and satellites into space, but they failed every time. So finally, they secretly agreed to pretend that they were both able to do it successfully.  They tossed a coin to decide which country would claim a moon landing, and NASA won.  Fortunately, the Soviets were good sports and they kept their end of the bargain by not revealing the Apollo hoaxes.  And since that time, a lot of other countries have asked if they can be part of the conspiracy.  The latest was India, which just yesterday claims to have put a spacecraft into orbit around Mars.

Do I have this right, jroa?

That sounds pretty plausible to me.  The Soviets were given the manned orbit, and the US was given the moon landings. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 25, 2014, 03:10:00 PM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 

It never ceases to amaze me what idiotic explanations you come up with and how you think you have no responsibility to provide any evidence whatsoever for your crazy theories.  Then again, maybe you do have some evidence for you latest moronic idea.  Do you?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: DonaldC on September 25, 2014, 11:07:25 PM
For the sake of the discussion I would hope we can all agree to remove satellites from the conversation. I am quite happy to make the concession. Lets continue.

Let me compare an aspect of the round earth with the flat earth and then see where that logically takes us. I would like to place some graphics here but have no idea how to do so. Anyone who wishes to educate me feel free to remove my ignorance. Much appreciated.

ROUND Earth: Let us begin as we are looking at the north pole (true not magnetic). As one moves southward the the latitude lines, which are circles, increase in radius and therefore circumference. The Equatorial latitude line is the maximum one, by radius and circumference. As one continues southward the latitude circles decrease in size until you are at the south pole.

FLAT Earth:  Just as above as you move southward from the north pole the latitude lines increase in radius until you reach the equator. As you continue southward past the equator the latitude lines continue to increase in radius and circumference until I assume one reaches the ice wall, or edge or whatever is there, and the maximum latitude line.

One quick comment, the radiuses of the two systems do not grow in the same manner. But for now lets pretty much gloss over this. Further let us assume one of these systems is correct and the other is not (no hollow convex earths or anything else).

Currently all navigation is based on the Round Earth maps. Maritime navigation; navies, coast guards, shipping, and pleasure sailing, all rely on these maps. As do planes; air forces, cargo, passenger and private. All use the round earth maps to find their way.

Now lets only look at long trips. Thousands of kilometers, as for relatively short trips flat maps are a close enough approximation, and see what happens. And not just long trips but those that begin in the northern half, pass past the equator and far into the south, and are not simply north south trips but also have east/west components. 

The round earth and flat earth maps will give wildly different distances. On the round earth travel is via great circles, giving you the shortest distances. On a flat earth it is always via straight lines. But south of the equator the area is continually increasing in size and the distances are growing larger than those of a round earth.

All of the aforementioned organizations that navigate the world would have to know the true shape of the earth. You simply cannot travel thousands of kilometers with the map of the wrong shaped earth. Leaving us with two possibilities. One, the earth is round. Two, the earth is flat and the tens of thousands of pilots, captains, navigators, etc. are all in on the conspiracy. And all those who have come before also are and remain silent.

I could add additional points but this gets the idea across. Which of these seems more likely?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 26, 2014, 05:52:04 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: The Ellimist on September 26, 2014, 06:42:28 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

A conspiracy inside a conspiracy?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 26, 2014, 06:44:27 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

A conspiracy inside a conspiracy?

Does there have to be more than one conspiracy? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on September 26, 2014, 11:32:31 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 

Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You've now made reference several times jroa that you believe that the US/USSR Cold War was a secretly devised political scenario intended to delude the world's population, for some sort of conspiratorial means.

Do you have any evidence supporting your claim?  Can you cite any research papers that even suggest that the Cold War was some massive hoax?

And are you suggesting that the US and the USSR were colluding at the time in order to pull this hoax off successfully?  If you were alive during the Bay of Pigs incident, surely you'd find it difficult to believe that both countries would've spent billions of dollars on creating global tensions just as some sort of game in order to fool the people?  It sure didn't look like a staged-managed event to me.

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 27, 2014, 08:19:36 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You think the Cold War itself might have been a hoax?  Are you out of your mind?!  Do you also suspect that WWII was a hoax?  Maybe the American Revolutionary War was a hoax, too.  Come to think of it, why would you believe the Revolutionary War actually happened?  You weren't there to personally witness it.  Do you believe it just because the "authorities" tell you it happened?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on September 27, 2014, 08:50:26 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You think the Cold War itself might have been a hoax?  Are you out of your mind?!  Do you also suspect that WWII was a hoax?  Maybe the American Revolutionary War was a hoax, too.  Come to think of it, why would you believe the Revolutionary War actually happened?  You weren't there to personally witness it.  Do you believe it just because the "authorities" tell you it happened?
How in the hell do we actually know what happened with many things?...after all, all we can go on, is what the media tell us, unless someone was personally there to see what went on with anything.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 27, 2014, 09:04:10 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You think the Cold War itself might have been a hoax?  Are you out of your mind?!  Do you also suspect that WWII was a hoax?  Maybe the American Revolutionary War was a hoax, too.  Come to think of it, why would you believe the Revolutionary War actually happened?  You weren't there to personally witness it.  Do you believe it just because the "authorities" tell you it happened?

You believe something just because you read it in a history book? 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: The Ellimist on September 27, 2014, 09:16:31 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You think the Cold War itself might have been a hoax?  Are you out of your mind?!  Do you also suspect that WWII was a hoax?  Maybe the American Revolutionary War was a hoax, too.  Come to think of it, why would you believe the Revolutionary War actually happened?  You weren't there to personally witness it.  Do you believe it just because the "authorities" tell you it happened?
How in the hell do we actually know what happened with many things?...after all, all we can go on, is what the media tell us, unless someone was personally there to see what went on with anything.

If we do not trust written history for anything, we don't know anything about anything. In an attempt to justify your conspiracy theories, you don't seem to realize what the things you're saying actually mean if we apply them to real life. Relying solely on eyewitness accounts for history would mean that we would only know about event ~200 years or less into the past. Which means the Revolutionary and Civil Wars did not happens, or colonization of America, or Africa (one could say white people were always in those areas), nor the Renaissance, nor the Battle of Hastings, The Holy Roman Empire didn't exist, the Roman Empire didn't exist, no prominent person before the early 20th century existed except as glorified myths.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 27, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You think the Cold War itself might have been a hoax?  Are you out of your mind?!  Do you also suspect that WWII was a hoax?  Maybe the American Revolutionary War was a hoax, too.  Come to think of it, why would you believe the Revolutionary War actually happened?  You weren't there to personally witness it.  Do you believe it just because the "authorities" tell you it happened?

You believe something just because you read it in a history book?

When dozens or hundreds of independent historians all say the same thing -- e.g. that the Revolutionary War was a thing that happened -- then, I do tend to believe it.

My question for you: do you or do you not believe that the American Revolutionary War happened?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 27, 2014, 09:36:05 AM
My question for you: do you or do you not believe that the American Revolutionary War happened?

My answer for you: It may have, or it may not happened the way you were taught. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on September 27, 2014, 09:54:02 AM
My question for you: do you or do you not believe that the American Revolutionary War happened?

My answer for you: It may have, or it may not happened the way you were taught.

So you aren't sure if that war actually happened?

How about the existence of Mt. Everest?  Assuming you have never climbed or even seen Mt. Everest, do you believe it exists just because a lot of people claim to have seen it, and some claim to have climbed it?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: markjo on September 27, 2014, 12:20:21 PM
How in the hell do we actually know what happened with many things?...after all, all we can go on, is what the media tell us, unless someone was personally there to see what went on with anything.
There are plenty of people still alive who lived through the cold war.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: DonaldC on September 27, 2014, 09:25:32 PM
So again my well thought out response is totally disregarded. Jroa what is your response? Any other Flat Earthers?


Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on September 28, 2014, 03:44:04 AM
So again my well thought out response is totally disregarded.  Jroa what is your response?  Any other Flat Earthers?

It's virtually impossible to meaningfully debate anything with jroa.  He repeatedly refuses to address any legitimate questions or propositions put to him, and usually responds with rhetorical one liners as per...

•  Why do you constantly change every subject into a satellite discussion?
•  Could you please learn English before posting again?  Thanks.
•  Markjo, I suspect you are the one who is drinking again
•  Sailors know what they see.  If what they see is not true, then they would be wrong, would they not?
•  Or, perhaps they were simply wrong before the space race?
•  I am not the one who brought up satellites
•  You use satellites every day?  Do you have proof?
•  Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?
•  Does there have to be more than one conspiracy?
•  You believe something just because you read it in a history book?
•  It may have, or it may not happened the way you were taught.

The above represents his total "input" to this (currently) three-page thread LOL.

—The last one in particular is a doozy!    ;D

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Weldo on October 09, 2014, 01:04:41 PM
For the sake of the discussion I would hope we can all agree to remove satellites from the conversation. I am quite happy to make the concession. Lets continue.

Let me compare an aspect of the round earth with the flat earth and then see where that logically takes us. I would like to place some graphics here but have no idea how to do so. Anyone who wishes to educate me feel free to remove my ignorance. Much appreciated.

ROUND Earth: Let us begin as we are looking at the north pole (true not magnetic). As one moves southward the the latitude lines, which are circles, increase in radius and therefore circumference. The Equatorial latitude line is the maximum one, by radius and circumference. As one continues southward the latitude circles decrease in size until you are at the south pole.

FLAT Earth:  Just as above as you move southward from the north pole the latitude lines increase in radius until you reach the equator. As you continue southward past the equator the latitude lines continue to increase in radius and circumference until I assume one reaches the ice wall, or edge or whatever is there, and the maximum latitude line.

One quick comment, the radiuses of the two systems do not grow in the same manner. But for now lets pretty much gloss over this. Further let us assume one of these systems is correct and the other is not (no hollow convex earths or anything else).

Currently all navigation is based on the Round Earth maps. Maritime navigation; navies, coast guards, shipping, and pleasure sailing, all rely on these maps. As do planes; air forces, cargo, passenger and private. All use the round earth maps to find their way.

Now lets only look at long trips. Thousands of kilometers, as for relatively short trips flat maps are a close enough approximation, and see what happens. And not just long trips but those that begin in the northern half, pass past the equator and far into the south, and are not simply north south trips but also have east/west components. 

The round earth and flat earth maps will give wildly different distances. On the round earth travel is via great circles, giving you the shortest distances. On a flat earth it is always via straight lines. But south of the equator the area is continually increasing in size and the distances are growing larger than those of a round earth.

All of the aforementioned organizations that navigate the world would have to know the true shape of the earth. You simply cannot travel thousands of kilometers with the map of the wrong shaped earth. Leaving us with two possibilities. One, the earth is round. Two, the earth is flat and the tens of thousands of pilots, captains, navigators, etc. are all in on the conspiracy. And all those who have come before also are and remain silent.

I could add additional points but this gets the idea across. Which of these seems more likely?

I've been a guest to this site for a while now as I find most of the debates fascinating, but I had to register when I read above quote. You sir have hit the nail on the head. Flat earth theory is just ludicrous IMO but it's like a bad car crash.. as much as I should, I can't stop reading. I would be very surprised if 99% of FE'ers aren't just taking the piss purely for the sake of debate. There is a reason why no one has responded to you, as the above Flat earth model just CANNOT be explained. Come on JROA, SCEPTI etc... explain that one please.... I/We await with bated breath, although we won't hold it!!
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on October 10, 2014, 01:34:30 AM
How in the hell do we actually know what happened with many things?...after all, all we can go on, is what the media tell us, unless someone was personally there to see what went on with anything.
There are plenty of people still alive who lived through the cold war.
What do you mean by "lived" through the cold war?
Can you tell me how it's physically possible for anyone to know what the cold war actually was, apart from watching the news and reading newspapers, etc?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 10, 2014, 01:52:15 AM
I've been a guest to this site for a while now as I find most of the debates fascinating, but I had to register when I read above quote. You sir have hit the nail on the head. Flat earth theory is just ludicrous IMO but it's like a bad car crash.. as much as I should, I can't stop reading. I would be very surprised if 99% of FE'ers aren't just taking the piss purely for the sake of debate. There is a reason why no one has responded to you, as the above Flat earth model just CANNOT be explained. Come on JROA, SCEPTI etc... explain that one please.... I/We await with bated breath, although we won't hold it!!


G'day Weldo...  I've accepted the spherical earth model, the force of gravity, space travel, man-made satellites, the Apollo missions, and the current model of the universe ever since my high school science days—which are longer ago than I'd like to admit LOL.  I also have a diploma in mechanical engineering which at the very least gives me an insight into physics, trigonometry, mechanics, surveying, and that sort of stuff.

And I agree: There's a few flat earthers here that I'm sure are just taking the piss for the fun of it, plus getting a rise out of round earthers (like me) who repeatedly try to get some sort of meaningful debate going.  Sceptimatic is THE classic example.  It's totally beyond the realms of possibility that any rational adult living in the 21st century could possibly be so totally ignorant of the contemporary sciences, and even stuff that most grade school kids have a grasp of.

Oddly enough—but maybe unsurprisingly—sceptimatic's comments gain a lot more attention and responses than do mine.  Even though the guy is a total whack job, and has not one academic qualification to his name.  Which is pretty easy to understand when you think about it.  His fellow flat earthers can easily shoot his nutty ideas down, whereas they have a lot more difficulty refuting any/all of my science-based claims and proofs.

You'll also note a lot of crude insults directed at genuine round earthers—never ending ad hominems—whenever they're backed into a corner with nowhere to go.  And which happens frequently LOL.  I've been told to F**K OFF numerous times, and even called a C**T—unbelievably!

There's also two sets of moderating standards on this site, which will become more than obvious if you start posting a lot of stuff:  There's one stringent set of forum rules for round earthers, and another, much more flexible set for flat earthers.  Although of course the moderators (such as they are) will deny this absolutely... well, they would wouldn't they LOL.

Anyway, as a fellow round earther, I'll look forward to you stirring the pot.   ;D

 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 10, 2014, 02:13:43 AM
What do you mean by "lived" through the cold war?
Can you tell me how it's physically possible for anyone to know what the cold war actually was, apart from watching the news and reading newspapers, etc?


I "lived through" the Cold War sceptimatic.  I witnessed its effects even in Australia.  I saw this unfolding with my own eyes at the time:  THE PETROV AFFAIR (http://bit.ly/ZhMU4x).  This was one of the most defining examples of the effects of the then largely unacknowledged Cold War.

Can I ask whether you were alive during the Cold War sceptimatic—1947 to 1989?

—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion?  Do you also believe that the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion between the CIA and USSR-backed Castro was a fabrication?  And if so, what evidence can you produce?


Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on October 10, 2014, 02:23:48 AM
What do you mean by "lived" through the cold war?
Can you tell me how it's physically possible for anyone to know what the cold war actually was, apart from watching the news and reading newspapers, etc?


I "lived through" the Cold War sceptimatic.  I witnessed its effects even in Australia.  I saw this unfolding with my own eyes at the time:  THE PETROV AFFAIR (http://bit.ly/ZhMU4x).  This was one of the most defining examples of the effects of the then largely unacknowledged Cold War.

Can I ask whether you were alive during the Cold War sceptimatic—1947 to 1989?

—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion?  Do you also believe that the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion between the CIA and USSR-backed Castro was a fabrication?  And if so, what evidence can you produce?
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: inquisitive on October 10, 2014, 02:56:21 AM
What do you mean by "lived" through the cold war?
Can you tell me how it's physically possible for anyone to know what the cold war actually was, apart from watching the news and reading newspapers, etc?


I "lived through" the Cold War sceptimatic.  I witnessed its effects even in Australia.  I saw this unfolding with my own eyes at the time:  THE PETROV AFFAIR (http://bit.ly/ZhMU4x).  This was one of the most defining examples of the effects of the then largely unacknowledged Cold War.

Can I ask whether you were alive during the Cold War sceptimatic—1947 to 1989?

—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion?  Do you also believe that the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion between the CIA and USSR-backed Castro was a fabrication?  And if so, what evidence can you produce?
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?
Look it up and find out.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on October 10, 2014, 03:02:49 AM
What do you mean by "lived" through the cold war?
Can you tell me how it's physically possible for anyone to know what the cold war actually was, apart from watching the news and reading newspapers, etc?


I "lived through" the Cold War sceptimatic.  I witnessed its effects even in Australia.  I saw this unfolding with my own eyes at the time:  THE PETROV AFFAIR (http://bit.ly/ZhMU4x).  This was one of the most defining examples of the effects of the then largely unacknowledged Cold War.

Can I ask whether you were alive during the Cold War sceptimatic—1947 to 1989?

—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion?  Do you also believe that the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion between the CIA and USSR-backed Castro was a fabrication?  And if so, what evidence can you produce?
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?
Look it up and find out.
You're not very good at this, are you?

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: inquisitive on October 10, 2014, 03:22:42 AM
What do you mean by "lived" through the cold war?
Can you tell me how it's physically possible for anyone to know what the cold war actually was, apart from watching the news and reading newspapers, etc?


I "lived through" the Cold War sceptimatic.  I witnessed its effects even in Australia.  I saw this unfolding with my own eyes at the time:  THE PETROV AFFAIR (http://bit.ly/ZhMU4x).  This was one of the most defining examples of the effects of the then largely unacknowledged Cold War.

Can I ask whether you were alive during the Cold War sceptimatic—1947 to 1989?

—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion?  Do you also believe that the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion between the CIA and USSR-backed Castro was a fabrication?  And if so, what evidence can you produce?
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?
Look it up and find out.
You're not very good at this, are you?
Still waiting for your explanation of measured distances.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 10, 2014, 06:34:33 AM
I don't know what the cold war actually was.

This is more than obvious judging by the ignorance you've displayed with your total lack of knowledge of it and its ramifications.  There's no need to reconfirm it for us LOL.

Quote
The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?

Unlike you, I know exactly what the Cold War was all about, and I can only suggest you read up a little of its history—as I'm guessing you weren't even born in 1989 when it ended.

Had you lived during the Cold War period, you would've shared exactly the same feelings of trepidation as the rest of the Western world that we were on the brink of WWIII several times, particularly with the Bay of Pigs incident when the "Doomsday Clock" was briefly set at 00:30 seconds to midnight.  (The clock is an internationally recognized device that conveys how close we are to destroying our civilization with dangerous technologies of our own making, such as nuclear warfare.) It's currently set at 5 minutes to midnight.  As a gauge, the earliest it's ever been set at is 19 minutes to midnight.

So... were you alive in 1961 sceptimatic?  A simple 'yes' or a 'no' will suffice.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on October 10, 2014, 07:04:21 AM
This is more than obvious judging by the ignorance you've displayed with your total lack of knowledge of it and its ramifications.  There's no need to reconfirm it for us LOL.

It depends who the ignorant one is, or the naive ignorant one.

Unlike you, I know exactly what the Cold War was all about, and I can only suggest you read up a little of its history—as I'm guessing you weren't even born in 1989 when it ended.
So you know what it was all about by stories given out by who? Media? authors? word of mouth? What?
Had you lived during the Cold War period, you would've shared exactly the same feelings of trepidation as the rest of the Western world that we were on the brink of WWIII several times, particularly with the Bay of Pigs incident when the "Doomsday Clock" was briefly set at 00:30 seconds to midnight.
Yep, I was duped by it all, as was just about all, I think. It's amazing what the media can put out to scare people who have no reason to discount it being the truth. It takes a lot of thinking and time, to come to conclusions about what scare tactics actually are, potentially, in certain circumstances.
The doomsday clock is s simple clock that we must believe is set at certain times for peace of arse nipping, depending on whether they think you've suffered enough torment to keep you in place and to make you follow the pied pipers.
 
(The clock is an internationally recognized device that conveys how close we are to destroying our civilization with dangerous technologies of our own making, such as nuclear warfare.) It's currently set at 5 minutes to midnight.  As a gauge, the earliest it's ever been set at is 19 minutes to midnight.
Yes, just like def con 5 to def con 1 and all the rest of it. So what. I have a broken clock that I can set towards midnight to let people know what mood I'm in. It's simply a scare tool that people buy into. It's basically nonsense as far as I'm concerned.
It'll never go to midnight because they don't have the weapons to pass it off, as nuclear weapons are a fantasy war weapon.
So... were you alive in 1961 sceptimatic?  A simple 'yes' or a 'no' will suffice.
What you wrote Geoffrey, above. Unlike you, I know exactly what the Cold War was all about, and I can only suggest you read up a little of its history—as I'm guessing you weren't even born in 1989 when it ended.


Judging by that remark, why are you asking if I were alive in 1961 when you clearly don't believe I was around in 1989.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 10, 2014, 07:14:08 AM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 



[/quote]
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: BJ1234 on October 10, 2014, 07:39:50 AM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 



[/quote]
This would be fairly easy to prove.  Obviously, there would be some form of communications between the USA and USSR about their plans to dupe the world's population.  Dig up some of that documentation and you prove that the Cold War was bogus.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 10, 2014, 07:46:17 AM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 



This would be fairly easy to prove.  Obviously, there would be some form of communications between the USA and USSR about their plans to dupe the world's population.  Dig up some of that documentation and you prove that the Cold War was bogus.
[/quote]

LOL, yeah, secret plans between governments are just a google click away.  ::)
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: markjo on October 10, 2014, 08:10:16 AM
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?
The Cold War was the name given to the tensions between the former Soviet Union and the US.  Some of the effects felt by people included the Korean and Viet Nam wars.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 10, 2014, 08:14:47 AM
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?
The Cold War was the name given to the tensions between the former Soviet Union and the US.  Some of the effects felt by people included the Korean and Viet Nam wars.

Or, so they lead you to believe. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: BJ1234 on October 10, 2014, 08:20:31 AM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 



This would be fairly easy to prove.  Obviously, there would be some form of communications between the USA and USSR about their plans to dupe the world's population.  Dig up some of that documentation and you prove that the Cold War was bogus.

LOL, yeah, secret plans between governments are just a google click away.  ::)
[/quote]
Because there has never been anyone who a has ever spoken out against corrupt governments or leaked government secrets...   ::)
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 10, 2014, 08:21:48 AM
You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 


You've fallen for the philosophical trap of claiming that one cannot "prove" a negative jroa.

When considering unfalsifiable claims, Bertrand Russell used an analogy of a celestial teapot. If a teapot was drifting in space between the Earth and Mars (making it unobservable), he claimed it would be unreasonable to expect belief of the teapot based on their inability to disprove the teapot's existence. He compared the belief in God to the belief in a celestial teapot; in both cases it is not the responsibility of disbelievers to disprove its existence.

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake.

If I [Russell] were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

—I also note yet again another of your frequent attempts to further derail these threads, by posting a personal defense of another forum member.  This is off-topic and irrelevant, and of all people jroa, you—as a moderator—should be setting the standard.

Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 10, 2014, 08:28:45 AM
Nobody should ever follow my standard.  I am the worst moderator ever. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 10, 2014, 08:42:11 AM
Nobody should ever follow my standard.  I am the worst moderator ever.

Can I quote this in 12 month's time?    ;D

BTW jroa, I never follow your lead.  You might take me places my dear old mum used to warn me about.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on October 10, 2014, 08:46:03 AM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 
How about proving a positive: you are the one claiming a massive worldwide conspiracy between 10s of countries over several decades to pretend that there was a Cold War.  It's up to you to provide some evidence of the conspiracy.

I've, helpfully, dug out these text message exchanges between Khrushchev and Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis:

Khrushchev: LOL!  They are actually buying this cold war shit!

Kennedy: I know!  It's hilarious, they actually think our countries are enemies.

Khrushchev: they even think nuclear weapons and the space programs are real.  Idiots!

Kennedy: well funny

Khrushchev: why are we doing this again, I forget?

Kennedy: errm, I've forgotten as well...ah, got it, it's so they don't find out the earth is actually flat.  Remember only the leaders in big countries know that earth is flat, and they don't want anyone else to know.

Khrushchev: I don't really get it....

Kennedy: no, I don't either, but it's still funny!

Khrushchev: yes it is comrade.  Have you seen that video of the cat falling off the table?  It is well funny too...



Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 10, 2014, 08:55:28 AM

Absolute gold Jimmy!

  ;D   ;D   ;D
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on October 10, 2014, 09:00:05 AM
I don't know what the cold war actually was. The fact is, neither do you. You said you felt the effects. What effects did you feel personally?
The Cold War was the name given to the tensions between the former Soviet Union and the US.  Some of the effects felt by people included the Korean and Viet Nam wars.
I'm well aware of what it was meant to be, I did read into it years ago. I didn't question it then and to be honest, I haven't really thought to go into any detail of questioning now, other than to say, it appears to me, NOW, that this was just another scaremongering tactic used by the elite - call it one huge government - world government - NWO ignition or whatever, I don't really know the full on issue of how it's panned out, other than, it appears more fishy as time goes on, especially regarding how I feel about nuclear weapons, power and all the rest of the weird shenanigans that have went on for scores and scores of years, to present day.

Let's put it this way. It appears to me that whoever runs this world, does so with the intentions of keeping us all frightened, using all ways and means, as well as taking away all of our hard earned money whilst doing so, leaving us totally reliant on them, which, in time, we will be so reliant on them that we will effectively be real slaves and know it, not the slaves we are that we accept on the pretext of an honest days work for an honest days pay, which it clearly isn't for the majority.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: sceptimatic on October 10, 2014, 09:26:21 AM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 
How about proving a positive: you are the one claiming a massive worldwide conspiracy between 10s of countries over several decades to pretend that there was a Cold War.  It's up to you to provide some evidence of the conspiracy.

I've, helpfully, dug out these text message exchanges between Khrushchev and Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis:

Khrushchev: LOL!  They are actually buying this cold war shit!

Kennedy: I know!  It's hilarious, they actually think our countries are enemies.

Khrushchev: they even think nuclear weapons and the space programs are real.  Idiots!

Kennedy: well funny

Khrushchev: why are we doing this again, I forget?

Kennedy: errm, I've forgotten as well...ah, got it, it's so they don't find out the earth is actually flat.  Remember only the leaders in big countries know that earth is flat, and they don't want anyone else to know.

Khrushchev: I don't really get it....

Kennedy: no, I don't either, but it's still funny!

Khrushchev: yes it is comrade.  Have you seen that video of the cat falling off the table?  It is well funny too...
Or maybe something like this.

Khrushchev: Are we going to be the first to fake putting a man into space?

Kennedy: Well, yeah, you sell Yuri to the world and have a few years of you lot forging ahead in space exploration, then we can take over from there after getting the public's arses nipping, thinking you are going to trounce us.

Khrushchev:Ahh ok, that sounds good, so what's next?

Kennedy: Well, once we get the publics attention, we can start a full on arms race and space race type of thing, but naturally we have to be the ones that forge ahead over time, so I'll declare we will put a man on the moon.

Khrushchev: Hahahaha. come on Kenner, you can't do that - they won't buy that for a minute.

Kennedy: You just watch. What I'll do is, I'll tell them early in this decade that we will put a man on the moon before this decade is out, then wait till, say...1969, maybe July where we manage it. I've got a great film maker in mind, so we can put pictures out to the public and also I've got some people working on building abslute shit contraptions that we will use as landing vehicles. The sketches look hilarious but the people will buy into it as long as we cover the cereal boxes in gold foil for effect.

Khrushchev: How much can we scrounge from the publics pockets?

Kennedy: Well let's put it this way, the models and filming and such will run into a million or so - maybe less but we can say it will take BILLIONS (http://s30.postimg.org/q4wkzewfx/spywho.png) (http://postimage.org/).

Khrushchev:Genius, Kenner, it looks like we're onto a winner here my son, lovely jubbly.

Kennedy: This cold war malarkey can rake in billions upon billions with arms races, space missions and a whole host of things to come, we will be taking every penny from the gullible public over time as more and more silly notions are thought up. Trust me, we can do anything and the public will just swallow it hook line and sinker. (http://s30.postimg.org/q4wkzewfx/spywho.png) (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Weldo on October 10, 2014, 12:28:55 PM
I've been a guest to this site for a while now as I find most of the debates fascinating, but I had to register when I read above quote. You sir have hit the nail on the head. Flat earth theory is just ludicrous IMO but it's like a bad car crash.. as much as I should, I can't stop reading. I would be very surprised if 99% of FE'ers aren't just taking the piss purely for the sake of debate. There is a reason why no one has responded to you, as the above Flat earth model just CANNOT be explained. Come on JROA, SCEPTI etc... explain that one please.... I/We await with bated breath, although we won't hold it!!


G'day Weldo...  I've accepted the spherical earth model, the force of gravity, space travel, man-made satellites, the Apollo missions, and the current model of the universe ever since my high school science days—which are longer ago than I'd like to admit LOL.  I also have a diploma in mechanical engineering which at the very least gives me an insight into physics, trigonometry, mechanics, surveying, and that sort of stuff.

And I agree: There's a few flat earthers here that I'm sure are just taking the piss for the fun of it, plus getting a rise out of round earthers (like me) who repeatedly try to get some sort of meaningful debate going.  Sceptimatic is THE classic example.  It's totally beyond the realms of possibility that any rational adult living in the 21st century could possibly be so totally ignorant of the contemporary sciences, and even stuff that most grade school kids have a grasp of.

Oddly enough—but maybe unsurprisingly—sceptimatic's comments gain a lot more attention and responses than do mine.  Even though the guy is a total whack job, and has not one academic qualification to his name.  Which is pretty easy to understand when you think about it.  His fellow flat earthers can easily shoot his nutty ideas down, whereas they have a lot more difficulty refuting any/all of my science-based claims and proofs.

You'll also note a lot of crude insults directed at genuine round earthers—never ending ad hominems—whenever they're backed into a corner with nowhere to go.  And which happens frequently LOL.  I've been told to F**K OFF numerous times, and even called a C**T—unbelievably!

There's also two sets of moderating standards on this site, which will become more than obvious if you start posting a lot of stuff:  There's one stringent set of forum rules for round earthers, and another, much more flexible set for flat earthers.  Although of course the moderators (such as they are) will deny this absolutely... well, they would wouldn't they LOL.

Anyway, as a fellow round earther, I'll look forward to you stirring the pot.   ;D

G'day Bruce, er, I mean Geoff! As I have already stated, I have been a keen "lurker" on this site for a while now so I've become familiar with who's who and their online personalities for want of a better description. As you have admitted yourself you do seem to get a lot of flack here, but I quite enjoy your input.

Anyway, back to the point. I see the whole discussion has gone all Cold War. No one has yet responded to DonaldC's question. Sidestepped as usual.

BTW The whole Scepti going to Antarctica but not being sure he was in Antarctica because he could have been anywhere that was cold with snow on the ground... for six months... collecting samples for some secret organisation thread is a cracker!!! Wouldn't be the same here without ya Scepti!!!!

Edited; TYPO
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: The Ellimist on October 10, 2014, 03:48:26 PM
—Also, do you have any viable evidence that the Cold War was in actuality a bogus war set up by the USA and the USSR in collusion? 

You want him to prove a negative?  Can you prove that the Loch Ness Monster is not real?  How about you prove that fairies do not exist?  Big Foot?  You understand that proving a negative is not really possible, right? 
How about proving a positive: you are the one claiming a massive worldwide conspiracy between 10s of countries over several decades to pretend that there was a Cold War.  It's up to you to provide some evidence of the conspiracy.

I've, helpfully, dug out these text message exchanges between Khrushchev and Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis:

Khrushchev: LOL!  They are actually buying this cold war shit!

Kennedy: I know!  It's hilarious, they actually think our countries are enemies.

Khrushchev: they even think nuclear weapons and the space programs are real.  Idiots!

Kennedy: well funny

Khrushchev: why are we doing this again, I forget?

Kennedy: errm, I've forgotten as well...ah, got it, it's so they don't find out the earth is actually flat.  Remember only the leaders in big countries know that earth is flat, and they don't want anyone else to know.

Khrushchev: I don't really get it....

Kennedy: no, I don't either, but it's still funny!

Khrushchev: yes it is comrade.  Have you seen that video of the cat falling off the table?  It is well funny too...

Slow clap
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ausGeoff on October 11, 2014, 07:34:11 AM
It appears to me that whoever runs this world, does so with the intentions of keeping us all frightened, using all ways and means, as well as taking away all of our hard earned money whilst doing so, leaving us totally reliant on them, which, in time, we will be so reliant on them that we will effectively be real slaves and know it, not the slaves we are that we accept on the pretext of an honest days work for an honest days pay, which it clearly isn't for the majority.


To a degree I have to agree with you sceptimatic.  One only has to look at the ways the major corporatists in Australia are effectively guiding our conservative government's national policies—particularly our inappropriate military engagement in the Middle East, purely at the behest of US president Obama.  At home, our government is manufacturing a false environment of societal fear of Islamic terrorism on Australian soil, despite there being no hard evidence of its existence—other than a handful of disenfranchised young Muslims with big mouths but no brains.  And a fearful population is a malleable population.  Also, the higher this (bogus) fear factor is, the more devious, controlling legislation the government can sneak through parliament, and the more the population can be distracted from major local issues such as a rising unemployment rate, a massive national fiscal deficit, and third-rate education, health, law and order, and social services facilities.

But... that's a world away from believing that we're succumbing to some sort of global conspiracy run by a fanciful New World Order, or secret cabal of powerful governmental officials spread all over the world. I just can't imagine Obama calling them up and saying to Kim Jong-un and Putin and Xi Jinping "Gee guys, we're really fooling all our countries' dumb hoi polloi with this talk of being constantly on the brink of war.  They never even figured out the phony Cold War was simply a convenient fabrication between us and the USSR. Keep up the good work guys—we're still fooling 7 billion people LOL."

And I say again sceptimatic, unless you lived through the Cold War period, you have no idea what you're talking about—claiming it was a setup.

And I ask you again; were you alive during the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961?  Yes or no?



Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ijusthadto on November 07, 2014, 05:56:12 PM
You realize, don't you, that the United States and Soviet Union were bitter enemies engaged in the Cold War at the time, right? There is no way that the two countries would make an agreement about faking space missions during a period when both sides were fearful that the other would launch a nuclear attack. 


Or so you have been lead to believe.  Conspiracy maybe?

You think the Cold War itself might have been a hoax?  Are you out of your mind?!  Do you also suspect that WWII was a hoax?  Maybe the American Revolutionary War was a hoax, too.  Come to think of it, why would you believe the Revolutionary War actually happened?  You weren't there to personally witness it.  Do you believe it just because the "authorities" tell you it happened?

You believe something just because you read it in a history book?

I want to know where you found your proof that the Earth is flat. Was it told to you by someone? Did you read it somewhere? Did you travel to the edge and see it first hand? I really want to know. I'm not trying to be a dick, I really want to know. I totally believe that the Earth is flat, otherwise the Bible is wrong. Please tell me soon so I can sleep tonight. nah... I'm just messin' with ya, I know it's not flat.

I just want you to understand how ridiculous your response is when you obviously have no proof and YOU believe what you've been told, or have read. Actually, I tend to believe that you are merely attempting to troll for the fun of it. The same way I'm trolling you  :-*

Seriously, quit using that "you believe it because you read it in a history book" lameass reply when you believe without firsthand knowledge.
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 08, 2014, 12:48:34 AM
The same way I'm trolling you  :-*

Either you are a terrible troll, or you don't really understand what trolling is.  I will give you a pro-tip--don't admit that you are trolling, especially not in the same post in which you are trying to troll someone.  Let me know if you need more tips. 
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: theearthisrounddealwithit on November 08, 2014, 05:24:56 AM
The whole conspiracy thing is one of the most fascinating aspects of FET. The logistics of such an enterprise is staggering to say the least. True, NASA is often cited but there are dozens of space agencies worldwide, employing tens of thousands of people no doubt. The "reason" for this conspiracy is also pretty vague. Financial reasons seem to be something FE's agree on but the cost to maintain such a gargantuan lie like a round earth would easily be in the trillions to date. Remember dozens of agencies and thousands of people to keep quiet not to mention the private companies and people who have ventured balloons and whatnot into orbit. Current government budgets for space exploration no matter the country would not be able to cover this lie AND pocket money. NASA's yearly budget is around 18 billion but they employ 18000 people. With Hollywood studio rentals, props, cameras, crew, their salaries, catering, film directors along with a LOT of photography, that doesn't leave much to buy their silence does it?

    I only wish a flat earther would explain to me in a clear, non obscure fashion, the exact workings of this great conspiracy, or at least a believable theory..
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: ijusthadto on November 08, 2014, 04:05:23 PM
The same way I'm trolling you  :-*

Either you are a terrible troll, or you don't really understand what trolling is.  I will give you a pro-tip--don't admit that you are trolling, especially not in the same post in which you are trying to troll someone.  Let me know if you need more tips.

sure, what other pro tips have you got for a noob like me?
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: robintex on November 08, 2014, 06:05:49 PM
I've been a guest to this site for a while now as I find most of the debates fascinating, but I had to register when I read above quote. You sir have hit the nail on the head. Flat earth theory is just ludicrous IMO but it's like a bad car crash.. as much as I should, I can't stop reading. I would be very surprised if 99% of FE'ers aren't just taking the piss purely for the sake of debate. There is a reason why no one has responded to you, as the above Flat earth model just CANNOT be explained. Come on JROA, SCEPTI etc... explain that one please.... I/We await with bated breath, although we won't hold it!!


G'day Weldo...  I've accepted the spherical earth model, the force of gravity, space travel, man-made satellites, the Apollo missions, and the current model of the universe ever since my high school science days—which are longer ago than I'd like to admit LOL.  I also have a diploma in mechanical engineering which at the very least gives me an insight into physics, trigonometry, mechanics, surveying, and that sort of stuff.

And I agree: There's a few flat earthers here that I'm sure are just taking the piss for the fun of it, plus getting a rise out of round earthers (like me) who repeatedly try to get some sort of meaningful debate going.  Sceptimatic is THE classic example.  It's totally beyond the realms of possibility that any rational adult living in the 21st century could possibly be so totally ignorant of the contemporary sciences, and even stuff that most grade school kids have a grasp of.

Oddly enough—but maybe unsurprisingly—sceptimatic's comments gain a lot more attention and responses than do mine.  Even though the guy is a total whack job, and has not one academic qualification to his name.  Which is pretty easy to understand when you think about it.  His fellow flat earthers can easily shoot his nutty ideas down, whereas they have a lot more difficulty refuting any/all of my science-based claims and proofs.

You'll also note a lot of crude insults directed at genuine round earthers—never ending ad hominems—whenever they're backed into a corner with nowhere to go.  And which happens frequently LOL.  I've been told to F**K OFF numerous times, and even called a C**T—unbelievably!

There's also two sets of moderating standards on this site, which will become more than obvious if you start posting a lot of stuff:  There's one stringent set of forum rules for round earthers, and another, much more flexible set for flat earthers.  Although of course the moderators (such as they are) will deny this absolutely... well, they would wouldn't they LOL.

Anyway, as a fellow round earther, I'll look forward to you stirring the pot.   ;D

I think that jolly well explains the Flat Earth Society Forum website. ;D
If this was a "Sherlock Holmes" case, it would be entitled .: "The Strange Case Of The Flat Earth Society Forum." LOL and Let The Good Times Roll, Mr. ausGeoff. I am here for the entertainment, too ! See my signature line. Rock On !
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: Apokalypt on November 09, 2014, 06:43:25 AM
I HAVE IT!!

Mabye the Earth is really flat!! All this organizations and FE believers know it....that the Earth is actually an alien spaceship!!! And they are aliens themselves and give us facts and evidence of a round Earth, so we won`t suspect anything..

OOOOHH you sneaky ones, I caught you!
Title: Re: The origins of the great round-earth conspiracy
Post by: theearthisrounddealwithit on November 09, 2014, 09:06:32 AM
I HAVE IT!!

Mabye the Earth is really flat!! All this organizations and FE believers know it....that the Earth is actually an alien spaceship!!! And they are aliens themselves and give us facts and evidence of a round Earth, so we won`t suspect anything..

OOOOHH you sneaky ones, I caught you!
That scenario is more plausible than most (if not all) of what you can find in FET.