So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed

Quote from: markjo on October 02, 2014, 11:55:34 AM

Quote from: blnjms on October 02, 2014, 10:47:29 AM

FET was the conspiracy until RET was proven. The Catholic Church hung onto it as long as it could before being proven wrong.

Incorrect.  You're probably thinking about Ptolemaic geocentrism, which was a round earth cosmology.

The Greeks were damn smart. Regardless, whatever flawed cosmology the powers that be held onto, it was corrected by discoveries over time, starting with the Greeks, and the current mainstream model evolved as new discoveries were made. Plain and simple.

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

Also, I don't need to prove my genius on a forum. I'm known as a genius to my work force. Some even - to this very day when I walk into the place, ask me how I can be such a genius inventor of exceptional things, as they can't seem to fathom out how to wire a plug, let alone think of the genius stuff I have thought up, built and get used to this very day and have done for many many years.

I just have a gift, what else can I say without it looking like I'm bragging. 

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on October 02, 2014, 12:15:19 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:02:47 PM

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

It's not obvious to me. I eagerly await enlightenment.

We'll remind you of your promise from time to time if necessary.

Oh, don't fret over that. I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.
I would just like you and the others to revise what you are giving out as a truth. It's wrong - very wrong.
I understand you want to aid in keeping space rocketry alive but you really need to be truthful to yourselves. I'm sure you all want the real truth, don;t you? instead of arguing in favour of a  pack of lies, which; granted, you may not be fully aware of.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:02:47 PM

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

Also, I don't need to prove my genius on a forum. I'm known as a genius to my work force. Some even - to this very day when I walk into the place, ask me how I can be such a genius inventor of exceptional things, as they can't seem to fathom out how to wire a plug, let alone think of the genius stuff I have thought up, built and get used to this very day and have done for many many years.

I just have a gift, what else can I say without it looking like I'm bragging. 

OK, you are just trolling now, got it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:19:29 PM

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on October 02, 2014, 12:15:19 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:02:47 PM

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

It's not obvious to me. I eagerly await enlightenment.

We'll remind you of your promise from time to time if necessary.

Oh, don't fret over that. I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.
I would just like you and the others to revise what you are giving out as a truth. It's wrong - very wrong.
I understand you want to aid in keeping space rocketry alive but you really need to be truthful to yourselves. I'm sure you all want the real truth, don;t you? instead of arguing in favour of a  pack of lies, which; granted, you may not be fully aware of.

Well, so far, your math says that the rocket accelerates at 5 miles per second per second.  You think that a speed of 1000 mph and a speed of 20000 mph are not constant velocities, and you have yet to point out where any of the math that has been shown is wrong, yet you want us to believe that you are some genius who can see through this great deception which has some how fooled almost everyone else.  So please tell us how and why we are wrong, not just that we are wrong.

Quote from: BJ1234 on October 02, 2014, 02:51:34 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:19:29 PM

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on October 02, 2014, 12:15:19 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:02:47 PM

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

It's not obvious to me. I eagerly await enlightenment.

We'll remind you of your promise from time to time if necessary.

Oh, don't fret over that. I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.
I would just like you and the others to revise what you are giving out as a truth. It's wrong - very wrong.
I understand you want to aid in keeping space rocketry alive but you really need to be truthful to yourselves. I'm sure you all want the real truth, don;t you? instead of arguing in favour of a  pack of lies, which; granted, you may not be fully aware of.

Well, so far, your math says that the rocket accelerates at 5 miles per second per second.  You think that a speed of 1000 mph and a speed of 20000 mph are not constant velocities, and you have yet to point out where any of the math that has been shown is wrong, yet you want us to believe that you are some genius who can see through this great deception which has some how fooled almost everyone else.  So please tell us how and why we are wrong, not just that we are wrong.

You are not helping your global Earth squatters, please put some effort in.

Quote from: BJ1234 on October 02, 2014, 02:51:34 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:19:29 PM

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on October 02, 2014, 12:15:19 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:02:47 PM

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

It's not obvious to me. I eagerly await enlightenment.

We'll remind you of your promise from time to time if necessary.

Oh, don't fret over that. I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.
I would just like you and the others to revise what you are giving out as a truth. It's wrong - very wrong.
I understand you want to aid in keeping space rocketry alive but you really need to be truthful to yourselves. I'm sure you all want the real truth, don;t you? instead of arguing in favour of a  pack of lies, which; granted, you may not be fully aware of.

Well, so far, your math says that the rocket accelerates at 5 miles per second per second.  You think that a speed of 1000 mph and a speed of 20000 mph are not constant velocities, and you have yet to point out where any of the math that has been shown is wrong, yet you want us to believe that you are some genius who can see through this great deception which has some how fooled almost everyone else.  So please tell us how and why we are wrong, not just that we are wrong.

You are not helping your global Earth squatters, please put some effort in.

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on October 02, 2014, 12:15:19 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 12:02:47 PM

First of all, it should be obvious why crabby is wrong, so I'll let him and whoever else stew on that for a good while before I show why.

It's not obvious to me. I eagerly await enlightenment.

We'll remind you of your promise from time to time if necessary.

Oh, don't fret over that. I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.
I would just like you and the others to revise what you are giving out as a truth. It's wrong - very wrong.
I understand you want to aid in keeping space rocketry alive but you really need to be truthful to yourselves. I'm sure you all want the real truth, don;t you? instead of arguing in favour of a  pack of lies, which; granted, you may not be fully aware of.

ausGeoff, that's incredibly unfair to pimply, 16 year old script kiddies!

In his August 28, 2009 Associated Press story appearing in the Brisbane Times, Toby Sterling recounted how a spokesman for the Dutch National Museum, Amsterdam's Rijksmuseum, acknowledged on August 26, 2009, "that one of its prized possessions, a rock supposedly brought back from the moon by"…Apollo 11… "US astronauts, is just a piece of petrified wood.."… "The museum acquired the rock after the death of former prime minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on October 9, 1969 from then-US ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their ‘Giant Leap’ goodwill tour after the first moon landing." The museum acknowledged that though they did vet the moon rock they failed to double check it.[74] The museum was under the incorrect belief that this moon rock was one of the 135 Apollo 11 moon rocks that were presented to the nations of the world by the Nixon Administration.[75] "It's a nondescript, pretty-much-worthless stone," said Frank Beunk, a geologist involved in the investigation.[76] The genuine Apollo 11 moon rock given to the Dutch is in the inventory of a different museum in the Netherlands, which is, in fact, one of the very few countries where the location of both the Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 gift rocks is known.[77]

So you're dropping the g-force thing?

Well, Aldrin had nothing to do with fake moon rock, it was the Nixon Administration:

Quote

In his August 28, 2009 Associated Press story appearing in the Brisbane Times, Toby Sterling recounted how a spokesman for the Dutch National Museum, Amsterdam's Rijksmuseum, acknowledged on August 26, 2009, "that one of its prized possessions, a rock supposedly brought back from the moon by"…Apollo 11… "US astronauts, is just a piece of petrified wood.."… "The museum acquired the rock after the death of former prime minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on October 9, 1969 from then-US ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their ‘Giant Leap’ goodwill tour after the first moon landing." The museum acknowledged that though they did vet the moon rock they failed to double check it.[74] The museum was under the incorrect belief that this moon rock was one of the 135 Apollo 11 moon rocks that were presented to the nations of the world by the Nixon Administration.[75] "It's a nondescript, pretty-much-worthless stone," said Frank Beunk, a geologist involved in the investigation.[76] The genuine Apollo 11 moon rock given to the Dutch is in the inventory of a different museum in the Netherlands, which is, in fact, one of the very few countries where the location of both the Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 gift rocks is known.[77]

Saying that a fake moon rock means they didn't go to the moon is like finding a fake Roman vase and declaring the Romans didn't exist.   Of course to do this you would have to ignore the real moonrocks and vases, not to mention the mountains of evidence supporting existence of the moon landings and the Romans.

You have to decide whether Buzz Aldrin was brainwashed or the possibility that he's one person aiding in trying to keep a massive lie under lock and key, albeit not very solidly, it seems to me. How about you lot?

I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.

crabby: don't you think that Buzz and co would know what they were handing over?
They were the ones that supposedly picked this supposed moon rock up, remember - so I'm pretty sure they would have known that petrified wood wasn't moon rock, if they had really made the trip to moon.
The very fact that they didn't, but went along with the country hand out tour, they knew fine well that what they were handing over was anything but moon rock.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 03, 2014, 02:49:39 AM

You have to decide whether Buzz Aldrin was brainwashed or the possibility that he's one person aiding in trying to keep a massive lie under lock and key, albeit not very solidly, it seems to me. How about you lot?

Neither of the above.

Does this mean you've given up on your acceleration mistake? Can we close that one out before moving on?

Don't forget:

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 03:40:46 PM

I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.

We haven't seen anything from you but words so far.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 03, 2014, 05:10:20 AM

crabby: don't you think that Buzz and co would know what they were handing over?
They were the ones that supposedly picked this supposed moon rock up, remember - so I'm pretty sure they would have known that petrified wood wasn't moon rock, if they had really made the trip to moon.
The very fact that they didn't, but went along with the country hand out tour, they knew fine well that what they were handing over was anything but moon rock.

How do you know for sure that it wasn't a genuine moon rock that they handed over?  Maybe the genuine moon rock was switched after Neil and Buzz handed it over.

Do you realise what you are saying here?

Let me just put it into context, under the assumption that the moon landing of 1969 was real, (cough).
Now think about this.
Can you imagine the Dutch accepting a lump of moon rock - a supposed unbelievably rare present that they would probably not ever get again, then deciding to change it -then tell the Americans that they gave them pertrified wood - with the Americans knowing they gave them real moon rock?

Seriously, you think the Dutch would attempt to incur the wrath of a country like that, especially one as big and mighty as the Americans, knowing that stuff like this could cause a war?

How about looking at a more plausible scenario.
How about Buzz and co going over there and handing the supposed moon rock over, knowing it was sealed inside a moulded clear resin type block and believing that the Dutch wouldn't know what it was because the Dutch have never been to the moon to verify anything, nor has anyone.
 Buzz and co can be confident in handing it over - doing a few picture shoots and pissing off. Most probably, Buzz and co wouldn't have had a clue that it was petrified wood. Those dummies would have been delivering a piece of rock from some far off place, in their minds...but the far off place being a far off place on Earth.

I bet they crapped themselves when they found out they had also been duped into giving petrified wood out. But what can they do? They are already under the pressure, shame and duress of lying their arses off, so they have no option but to badly bluff it out, from then and for the rest of their lives.

Did you know that there were about 250 of those displays made and presented to 135 different countries, all 50 states and possessions?  Doesn't sound "incredibly rare" to me.

War?  Over a moon rock?  Seriously?

How is that any more plausible than one of the Dutch stealing the genuine sample and replacing it with the fake?  Remember that the fake wasn't discovered for more than 30 years.  Sounds like plenty of time to steal a genuine original to me.

Again, how do you know that the fake is what was actually presented?  Were you there at the presentation?  Did you personally examine the sample that Neil and Buzz handed over?

The genuine Apollo 11 moon rock given to the Dutch is in the inventory of a different museum in the Netherlands, which is, in fact, one of the very few countries where the location of both the Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 gift rocks is known.

An investigation showed that United States Ambassador J. William Middendorf II had presented Drees with the "moon rock" on October 9, 1969. The Apollo 11 astronauts were visiting the Netherlands at that time on a goodwill tour. Drees' grandson speculates that his grandfather formed the mistaken impression that the "moon rock" he received was from the Apollo 11 mission. When Drees' "moon rock" was received by the Rijksmuseum in 1992, the museum phoned NASA to verify its provenance and was told over the phone, without seeing the piece, that it was "possible" it was a Moon rock.[4] USA Today says the discovery of a bogus "moon rock" at the Rijksmuseum should serve as a wake-up call for all the countries of the world and all the states of the United States that received the Apollo 11 and 17 lunar plaque displays from the Nixon administration to locate the displays and fully secure them.[

Quote from: markjo on October 03, 2014, 06:28:10 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 03, 2014, 05:10:20 AM

crabby: don't you think that Buzz and co would know what they were handing over?
They were the ones that supposedly picked this supposed moon rock up, remember - so I'm pretty sure they would have known that petrified wood wasn't moon rock, if they had really made the trip to moon.
The very fact that they didn't, but went along with the country hand out tour, they knew fine well that what they were handing over was anything but moon rock.

How do you know for sure that it wasn't a genuine moon rock that they handed over?  Maybe the genuine moon rock was switched after Neil and Buzz handed it over.

Do you realise what you are saying here?

Let me just put it into context, under the assumption that the moon landing of 1969 was real, (cough).
Now think about this.
Can you imagine the Dutch accepting a lump of moon rock - a supposed unbelievably rare present that they would probably not ever get again, then deciding to change it -then tell the Americans that they gave them pertrified wood - with the Americans knowing they gave them real moon rock?

Seriously, you think the Dutch would attempt to incur the wrath of a country like that, especially one as big and mighty as the Americans, knowing that stuff like this could cause a war?

How about looking at a more plausible scenario.
How about Buzz and co going over there and handing the supposed moon rock over, knowing it was sealed inside a moulded clear resin type block and believing that the Dutch wouldn't know what it was because the Dutch have never been to the moon to verify anything, nor has anyone.
 Buzz and co can be confident in handing it over - doing a few picture shoots and pissing off. Most probably, Buzz and co wouldn't have had a clue that it was petrified wood. Those dummies would have been delivering a piece of rock from some far off place, in their minds...but the far off place being a far off place on Earth.

I bet they crapped themselves when they found out they had also been duped into giving petrified wood out. But what can they do? They are already under the pressure, shame and duress of lying their arses off, so they have no option but to badly bluff it out, from then and for the rest of their lives.

I almost feel sorry for some of them. Armstrong for instance. That man clearly was carrying a massive burden and I bet he's wanted the world to swallow him up from day one when he was duped into the scheme.
Buzz Aldrin carried his shame for a while then sort of embraced the fact that he was up to his eyes in it all, he might as well front it out and take the plaudits, plus trimmings on offer.

That's my take on it. Whether that's absolutely correct or not I don't know. What I do know is, they did not go to the moon and I'm 100% sure of that - nor will anyone ever go there, because it's a fantasy place. A visual effect turned into something solid and real to those that are gullible enough to buy into it, which was about 99% of us at one time, including myself.

Time and the ability to think critically can change all of that.

If they came out tomorrow and said it was all faked, I'd just laugh. It means nothing to me as regards that. It would just be a welcome addage to life to be told a truth, because this world of lies we're living in is starting to stink badly.

I haven't caluclated an acceleration to make a mistake. You lot did that and I'm still waiting for you to rectify it. If you can't or won't, fair enough. I'm patient enough to wait until one of you can, though.

I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.

You CAN'T be 100% sure we didn't go to the moon or that the earth is flat or whatever, but I'd easily stake my good name, even my life, on RE, moon travel, satellites and all that over whatever you're spouting, Scepti.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 03, 2014, 06:39:35 AM

I haven't caluclated an acceleration to make a mistake. You lot did that and I'm still waiting for you to rectify it. If you can't or won't, fair enough. I'm patient enough to wait until one of you can, though.

More words, no math.

There's nothing to rectify. Does this mean you're using that as an excuse to weasel out of:

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 02, 2014, 03:40:46 PM

I will provide you with calculations and explanations starting from the ground up. The whole lot, in time.

You got nothing!

Don't keep wasting your time writing this stuff. It seriously makes me smile. 

Quote from: blnjms on October 03, 2014, 08:10:48 AM

You CAN'T be 100% sure we didn't go to the moon or that the earth is flat or whatever, but I'd easily stake my good name, even my life, on RE, moon travel, satellites and all that over whatever you're spouting, Scepti.

Oh, I'm 100% sure no man has been to the moon. I can say 100% that the Earth is flat, as in a flat disc, as I don't know and have never pushed the flat disc theory. That's other flat Earth theorists choice.
All I can do is guess at what the Earth is, just like everyone else can, because nobody actually knows the entire truth of it, simply because we do not have the capabilities of seeing it in it's entirety...unless of course you are willing to simply accept it's a ball just sitting in space, spinning around itself and a ball of fire, etc.

Let me tell you something. If someone stood in a room and said to you that they have proof of what the Earth is and are ready to show you, then asked you to make a choice as to what it is...and if you are wrong, you get shot to death, I'd hazard one exceptionally accurate guess that you would say, " I don't know what shape it is." Why?
Because you would fear it being wrong. All your confident stance would be turned into doubt on the basis of being shown the reality.

I know, I know, you are going to pipe up with, " no I wouldn't scpeti, I would say it was a globe." Don't bother because I won't accept that.

What you are spouting to me, may not be you pushing a lie to me. It's most probably you just naively accepting official lines, which is fair enough. I don't hold that aginst you or anyone else.
All I want is the truth. The only people capable of that, are those that push the mis-info.

I haven't caluclated an acceleration to make a mistake. You lot did that and I'm still waiting for you to rectify it. If you can't or won't, fair enough. I'm patient enough to wait until one of you can, though.

a shuttle launching into so called space, supposedly attaining a speed of 17,000 mph, would have to accelerate at a 5 miles per second per second to attain this 17,000 mph speed.