At sceptimatic's request...

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tappet

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2014, 11:49:59 PM »
Seriously I don't get it. Dirt or dust drops quicker on the moon but the astronauts drop slower? ???

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tappet

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2014, 12:05:24 AM »
Now I have not really looked at this moon stuff. But you gotta admit there is some funny stuff going on here.
I thought the moon had less gravity than earth if that's the case what's the go with these buggy wheels not leaving the ground over these bumps?

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SirSpankalot

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2014, 12:12:37 AM »
Seriously I don't get it. Dirt or dust drops quicker on the moon but the astronauts drop slower? ???

They don't drop slower, the astronaut and dust fall at the same rate..

They only look like they fall slower because they're big and cumbersome.. its an illusion..

Take a very close look at the dust video and you will see..  also Newtons law says they should drop at the same rate in a vacuum - and they do.

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tappet

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2014, 12:17:24 AM »
Come on man your pulling my leg. I see rooster tails coming off dirt bikes and rally cars all the time that dirt comes down at the same speed on the moon as it does on earth.

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tappet

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2014, 12:23:17 AM »
Obviously Newtons law is not working here. Unless Newton says dust drops and astronauts float.

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SirSpankalot

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2014, 12:28:30 AM »
They are falling at the same rate....

btw.. what cars do you race?

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2014, 12:31:24 AM »
I could hazard a couple more guesses, but that's all they'd be.

4. It was assembled in this position.
Ok but I think you would agree that it's highly unlikely considering it unfolds from a holding bay, right?
5. It was picked up by the astronauts and placed there (no crane required, as even though it had a mass of 210kg, it only weighed about 35kg on the moon)
Again, extremely unlikely and dangerous. We are talking about astronaut suits in a supposed moon vacuum. Do you seriously think they would risk picking something like that up with the very very possible likelyhood of causing a suit tear.

edit:
6. The astronauts had been walking around it recently and kicked a lot of dust about, covering the tracks (there does seem to be a lot of boot prints, some partially filled in with loose dust)
Yes that's possible, except it's extremely unlikely to wipe out all the tyre tracks, right?

Like I said, I was only guessing.

Quote
Now given the fact that you have viewed this. Is it also extremely possible that this buggy is not on the moon and is in fact in a desert area or a designated staging area on Earth. Is is possible?

Sure, it's possible, but if that's the case... why no tracks?
Why no tracks, indeed.

Two possible reasons:
1. The buggy was lifted into position by a crane.

2. The buggy was put into position by stage hands wearing ordinary shoes/boots and the area was raked or brushed,etc. Then the actors in suits and moon boots walked around the buggy, forgetting about the tracks it should have made, being brushed out. It's possible, right?

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2014, 12:34:18 AM »
Here's a few more to run your eyes over. Explain the possible causes of this if you can.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Moon = Hoax: Colette, No Tire Tracks

I'm not sure how to explain it in simple terms for you...

Do you understand what a footprint is?
Yes, I know what a foot print is, now explain what you're getting at.

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tappet

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2014, 12:36:06 AM »
They are falling at the same rate....

btw.. what cars do you race?
Ford v8 in rally
Skyline on bitumen
and building Lexus v8 on nitro for burnouts

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2014, 12:55:00 AM »





Here is your answer.
See the fender there and how it's all jacked up and has what looks like duct tape wrapped around it? Well, that actually is duct tape. And it's there due to a well documented field repair the astronauts had to perform on the Apollo 17 mission. During which they had to pick up the rover. Again, not too difficult for 2 fit military test pilot astronauts to lift 70 pounds.....
Not too difficult for two fit military test pilots in  pressurised bulky, hazardous easily punctured suits with bulky front camera mounts and they pick up a buggy for, what actual reason?
Well, on that particular mission Astronaut Schmitt was a geologist. Still...... If the photo wasn't so zoomed in you probably could see some of the other tracks.
A geologist? What is being a geologist got to do with whether you can see tyre tracks.
So if the photo wasn't so zoomed in you would see them, right? Ok then, try and explain away the video I put up, there's plenty more wider areas with no tracks.

Especially the ones they hadn't walked all over. Look at some video of that weird hopping gait they had to use. You'll see that they kicked dust around all over the place. Which covered up everything.
Kicked dust that covered up everything. Well there we go then, kicked up dust and the tracks are gone.
The new shake the track: It's all you have to do, you do the shake the track and put the cement back, do the shake the track and put the cement back, when your buggy makes tracks, that annoy you, do the shake the track, that's all you gotta do.
Care to guess why that photo was taken from that angle all zoomed in on the fender? Because it is a photo taken specifically to show the fender repair job.....
Yes and what a fantastic job they done. I mean, imagine that pesky dust causing havoc. Duct tape! Seals ducts and many other uses, including multi billion dollar space equipment repairs.
Oh, and guess when that repair took place? Right after they set up the rover. So again, it hasn't even driven anywhere yet.....

Next item...
Sure! It hasn't driven anywhere but looks like it's done a moon buggy rally by the state of it and the actornauts' trousers.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 12:59:21 AM by sceptimatic »

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SirSpankalot

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2014, 01:07:38 AM »
They are falling at the same rate....

btw.. what cars do you race?
Ford v8 in rally
Skyline on bitumen
and building Lexus v8 on nitro for burnouts

Very cool  :)

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glokta

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2014, 05:08:20 AM »
Thought scepti might like this nice long video showing the rover fender repair. They even mention the mesa module and I'm sure you know what that is now :) Also notice that the camera pans around 360 degrees several times. Notice the lack of cranes/soundstage/movie lights/film crew etc :) #" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">APOLLO 17 ....... fixing the Lunar Rover 'fender'
Quote from: sceptimatic
Use your brain. There is no sun in space. You are simply duped.

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2014, 06:20:37 AM »
Thought scepti might like this nice long video showing the rover fender repair. They even mention the mesa module and I'm sure you know what that is now :) Also notice that the camera pans around 360 degrees several times. Notice the lack of cranes/soundstage/movie lights/film crew etc :) #" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">APOLLO 17 ....... fixing the Lunar Rover 'fender'
What exactly is this proving? Take a look at the video I put up. The one picture I showed you is just one of many.

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glokta

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2014, 06:25:19 AM »
Thought scepti might like this nice long video showing the rover fender repair. They even mention the mesa module and I'm sure you know what that is now :) Also notice that the camera pans around 360 degrees several times. Notice the lack of cranes/soundstage/movie lights/film crew etc :) #" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">APOLLO 17 ....... fixing the Lunar Rover 'fender'
What exactly is this proving? Take a look at the video I put up. The one picture I showed you is just one of many.
It shows the amount and duration of movement made around the area in question which would support the idea that it would be quite possible to have kicked up dust over any tyre tracks, if there were any. It also shows nice 360 degree shots devoid of any film set apparatus. I didn't see that you posted a video sorry I will go back through the thread now.
Quote from: sceptimatic
Use your brain. There is no sun in space. You are simply duped.

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BJ1234

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2014, 06:43:59 AM »
@Tappet

It seems that you are missing the key difference between the moon and the earth.  The atmosphere.  The moon lacks any significant atmosphere while the earth has a thick atmosphere.  The dust on the moon falls faster because there is no significant air resistance or wind.  Where as the dust on earth is getting blown around and has to overcome the air resistance of the atmosphere.

The video I posted shows the effect of this by dropping coins and feathers in a chamber.  Initially, the coins float down and the coins drop fast.  After they evacuate the air, or most of it, out of the chamber, the coins and feathers drop at the same rate.

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ausGeoff

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2014, 06:55:05 AM »
These things aren't abstract and all of the conspiracy theories about the moon landings have been thoroughly debunked.. I struggle to understand why they seem to be brought up here a LOT....

I agree that the moon landings conspiracy thing is starting to get very tired, and boring.  At any rate, I fail to see how bogus moon landing videos would potentially prove a flat earth scenario.  There's no correlation whatsoever.

That's like saying because Bugs Bunny doesn't exist in reality, it's also proof that rabbits don't exist on earth.
 

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2014, 07:00:44 AM »
@Tappet

It seems that you are missing the key difference between the moon and the earth.  The atmosphere.  The moon lacks any significant atmosphere while the earth has a thick atmosphere.  The dust on the moon falls faster because there is no significant air resistance or wind.  Where as the dust on earth is getting blown around and has to overcome the air resistance of the atmosphere.

The video I posted shows the effect of this by dropping coins and feathers in a chamber.  Initially, the coins float down and the coins drop fast.  After they evacuate the air, or most of it, out of the chamber, the coins and feathers drop at the same rate.
Don't forget, you are also using your gravity ruse at one sixth, so what's it to be. A fast fall or a slow fall? A high jump or a low jump? A soft landing or a hard landing?

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2014, 07:04:10 AM »
These things aren't abstract and all of the conspiracy theories about the moon landings have been thoroughly debunked.. I struggle to understand why they seem to be brought up here a LOT....

I agree that the moon landings conspiracy thing is starting to get very tired, and boring.  At any rate, I fail to see how bogus moon landing videos would potentially prove a flat earth scenario.  There's no correlation whatsoever.

That's like saying because Bugs Bunny doesn't exist in reality, it's also proof that rabbits don't exist on earth.
Because this topic isn't about flat Earth V round Earth. It's about Apollo anomalies and it all CAN eventually, over time, marry up with all of the mainstream scientific theories being questioned.
You find one lie, there will be others.  Once you find others, there will be more...and so on. You know this and so does 99% of round Earth indoctrinates.
That's not a dig, it's simply how it is.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 07:52:34 AM by sceptimatic »

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inquisitive

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2014, 07:26:55 AM »
We know how the sun 'appears' to rotate round the earth as we know sun rise and set times and they are consistent with a round earth.

Discuss.

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ausGeoff

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2014, 07:29:14 AM »
You find one lie, there will be others. You find others, there will be more...and so on. You know this and so does 99% of round Earth indoctrinates.


As far as I know, there's never been one single shred of verifiable evidence produced in order to prove unequivocally that any of the moon landings were bogus.  The conspiracy theorists have been hammering away at this for decades now, and still have absolutely no evidence in support of their bizarre claims.  Which must be  extremely frustrating I would've thought.

And can you please clarify your term "round earth indoctrinates" as I'm unfamiliar with it.
 

 

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glokta

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2014, 07:43:06 AM »
These things aren't abstract and all of the conspiracy theories about the moon landings have been thoroughly debunked.. I struggle to understand why they seem to be brought up here a LOT....

I agree that the moon landings conspiracy thing is starting to get very tired, and boring.  At any rate, I fail to see how bogus moon landing videos would potentially prove a flat earth scenario.  There's no correlation whatsoever.

That's like saying because Bugs Bunny doesn't exist in reality, it's also proof that rabbits don't exist on earth.
Because this topic isn't about flat Earth V round Earth. It's about Apollo anomalies and it all CAN eventually, over time, marry up with all of the mainstream scientific theories being questioned.
You find one lie, there will be others. You find otehrs, there will be more...and so on. You know this and so does 99% of round Earth indoctrinates.
That's not a dig, it's simply how it is.
It's quite ironic you choose the word anomalies as, for your first photo at least, the only anomalie is what you think the photo represents. As far as the tyre track photo I think both sides can agree that we could go on about the rover being lowered into position vs the tyre tracks being kicked over indefinately. The only things I would point out are that several photos claiming absence of tyre tracks show tracks in other parts of the photos and an empty rover, suggesting walking in the vicinity of the rover could kick up dust over the tracks. Second, the rover could be and was picked up and moved when required if it was not possible to steer out of a position for whatever reason. Third, if you look at how much dust the rover kicks up at such slow speed and the amount of dust that covered the astronauts then I would say it would be reasonable to assume (and indeed see on various videos of walking on the surface) that kicking up dust over tracks is quite possible. Also as I said along with the last video I posted, you can see the length of time the area in question was being walked on during the repair and, although not directly related to this debate, a nice 360 shot of the area devoid of film crew / equipment etc.  Finaly, the fact the fender needed to be repaired was because of the amount of lunar dust on the surface that the wheels kicked up - something that would support the idea that kicking up dust with your boots is far from implausible.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 07:46:22 AM by glokta »
Quote from: sceptimatic
Use your brain. There is no sun in space. You are simply duped.

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BJ1234

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2014, 07:49:28 AM »
@Tappet

It seems that you are missing the key difference between the moon and the earth.  The atmosphere.  The moon lacks any significant atmosphere while the earth has a thick atmosphere.  The dust on the moon falls faster because there is no significant air resistance or wind.  Where as the dust on earth is getting blown around and has to overcome the air resistance of the atmosphere.

The video I posted shows the effect of this by dropping coins and feathers in a chamber.  Initially, the coins float down and the coins drop fast.  After they evacuate the air, or most of it, out of the chamber, the coins and feathers drop at the same rate.
Don't forget, you are also using your gravity ruse at one sixth, so what's it to be. A fast fall or a slow fall? A high jump or a low jump? A soft landing or a hard landing?
What do any of those things have to do with the effect of air resistance on a falling object?

Tappet was speciffically asking why the dust from the rover fell faster than dust does on earth.  I gave him an explination.  So do  you want to give me reasons why my explination is inadequate, or just go off on tangents?

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #112 on: February 24, 2014, 07:57:43 AM »
We know how the sun 'appears' to rotate round the earth as we know sun rise and set times and they are consistent with a round earth.

Discuss.
They are consistent with how you are told the Earth acts in rotation. That's it. If I was to show you a Duck moving across a big window and told you that once it disappears, it will come back around to pass along the window again, you could accept that, right?

What if I was lying and the Duck went past the window and fell off the sill but there were other Ducks timed to start at specific times to follow the other poor Ducks path.

No real Ducks were used in this explanation.

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #113 on: February 24, 2014, 08:02:41 AM »
You find one lie, there will be others. You find others, there will be more...and so on. You know this and so does 99% of round Earth indoctrinates.


As far as I know, there's never been one single shred of verifiable evidence produced in order to prove unequivocally that any of the moon landings were bogus.  The conspiracy theorists have been hammering away at this for decades now, and still have absolutely no evidence in support of their bizarre claims.  Which must be  extremely frustrating I would've thought.

And can you please clarify your term "round earth indoctrinates" as I'm unfamiliar with it.
Geoff. I'm sure you're an intelligent man. I'm also absolutely certain that you're not that naive as to believe in the moon landings, so I won't go any further in attempting to prove anything else to you, because you have all the info and you know the truth, which is, it was all faked.

Round Earth indoctrinates are people like you (and once upon a time, me) that unconditionally follow the official lines by being officially brainwashed into acceptance.

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glokta

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2014, 08:08:16 AM »
We know how the sun 'appears' to rotate round the earth as we know sun rise and set times and they are consistent with a round earth.

Discuss.
They are consistent with how you are told the Earth acts in rotation. That's it. If I was to show you a Duck moving across a big window and told you that once it disappears, it will come back around to pass along the window again, you could accept that, right?

What if I was lying and the Duck went past the window and fell off the sill but there were other Ducks timed to start at specific times to follow the other poor Ducks path.

No real Ducks were used in this explanation.
I would say there is more evidence to support the earths journey around the sun than the ability to train ducks to be such accurate time keepers.
Quote from: sceptimatic
Use your brain. There is no sun in space. You are simply duped.

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inquisitive

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2014, 08:15:23 AM »
We know how the sun 'appears' to rotate round the earth as we know sun rise and set times and they are consistent with a round earth.

Discuss.
They are consistent with how you are told the Earth acts in rotation. That's it. If I was to show you a Duck moving across a big window and told you that once it disappears, it will come back around to pass along the window again, you could accept that, right?

What if I was lying and the Duck went past the window and fell off the sill but there were other Ducks timed to start at specific times to follow the other poor Ducks path.

No real Ducks were used in this explanation.
I see the sun rise and set as does everyone else in the world following a pattern that is consistent with a round earth.   The model matches exactly.

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2014, 08:17:48 AM »
These things aren't abstract and all of the conspiracy theories about the moon landings have been thoroughly debunked.. I struggle to understand why they seem to be brought up here a LOT....

I agree that the moon landings conspiracy thing is starting to get very tired, and boring.  At any rate, I fail to see how bogus moon landing videos would potentially prove a flat earth scenario.  There's no correlation whatsoever.

That's like saying because Bugs Bunny doesn't exist in reality, it's also proof that rabbits don't exist on earth.
Because this topic isn't about flat Earth V round Earth. It's about Apollo anomalies and it all CAN eventually, over time, marry up with all of the mainstream scientific theories being questioned.
You find one lie, there will be others. You find otehrs, there will be more...and so on. You know this and so does 99% of round Earth indoctrinates.
That's not a dig, it's simply how it is.
It's quite ironic you choose the word anomalies as, for your first photo at least, the only anomalie is what you think the photo represents. As far as the tyre track photo I think both sides can agree that we could go on about the rover being lowered into position vs the tyre tracks being kicked over indefinately. The only things I would point out are that several photos claiming absence of tyre tracks show tracks in other parts of the photos and an empty rover, suggesting walking in the vicinity of the rover could kick up dust over the tracks. Second, the rover could be and was picked up and moved when required if it was not possible to steer out of a position for whatever reason. Third, if you look at how much dust the rover kicks up at such slow speed and the amount of dust that covered the astronauts then I would say it would be reasonable to assume (and indeed see on various videos of walking on the surface) that kicking up dust over tracks is quite possible. Also as I said along with the last video I posted, you can see the length of time the area in question was being walked on during the repair and, although not directly related to this debate, a nice 360 shot of the area devoid of film crew / equipment etc.  Finaly, the fact the fender needed to be repaired was because of the amount of lunar dust on the surface that the wheels kicked up - something that would support the idea that kicking up dust with your boots is far from implausible.
If that buggy did 30 mph, I'd be inclined to agree with you. We are talking about 10 mph, so they tell us. Go and drive your car on the sand or dry soil at 10 mph and see what's kicked up.

Of course, we are on the moon, aren't we in one sixth gravity, so that's the reason, maybe?
The thing is, people need to make their minds up about the speed in which dust is kicked up and the speed it drops, because we have two conflicting stories, dependent on what anomalies get brought to the fore.
These people who perpetrate this kind of stuff, like showing us a paper/cardboard and thin tin foil craft stuck together with christmas parcel sized stick tape, plus cardboard and duct tape mud/dust guard can do this, because they know how gullible the general public are and they cannot resist laughing at the public.

It doesn't matter how ludicrous this stuff gets...people like you gobble it up. It's the truth. It can be so ridiculous in the extreme and you lot would sit there with straight faces and say, " of course it's possible, they're just saving money and space isn't that bad" and blah blah blah.

That's why I don't trust any of you that hang on to this like limpets. Those who refuse to see the absurdity of it all and then go about debunking it all...I would not trust as far as I could throw them.
Those who believe it because they don't know any different or hven't looked into it, I can accept.

If I could only muster 4 or 5 things about it all, then I'd give in and say it was all legitimate. The fact is, there's hundreds of things and experts that cannot understand why and how things worked and what not, yet they're all supposedly debunked by people who simply pass them off as wacko's.


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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2014, 08:18:40 AM »
We know how the sun 'appears' to rotate round the earth as we know sun rise and set times and they are consistent with a round earth.

Discuss.
They are consistent with how you are told the Earth acts in rotation. That's it. If I was to show you a Duck moving across a big window and told you that once it disappears, it will come back around to pass along the window again, you could accept that, right?

What if I was lying and the Duck went past the window and fell off the sill but there were other Ducks timed to start at specific times to follow the other poor Ducks path.

No real Ducks were used in this explanation.
I would say there is more evidence to support the earths journey around the sun than the ability to train ducks to be such accurate time keepers.
You know exactly what I mean.

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2014, 08:20:09 AM »
We know how the sun 'appears' to rotate round the earth as we know sun rise and set times and they are consistent with a round earth.

Discuss.
They are consistent with how you are told the Earth acts in rotation. That's it. If I was to show you a Duck moving across a big window and told you that once it disappears, it will come back around to pass along the window again, you could accept that, right?

What if I was lying and the Duck went past the window and fell off the sill but there were other Ducks timed to start at specific times to follow the other poor Ducks path.

No real Ducks were used in this explanation.
I see the sun rise and set as does everyone else in the world following a pattern that is consistent with a round earth.   The model matches exactly.
The model matches exactly because you are told that it does and shown why this happens. Your own eyes and mind, see what they want you to see.

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sceptimatic

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Re: At sceptimatic's request...
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2014, 08:23:12 AM »
@Tappet

It seems that you are missing the key difference between the moon and the earth.  The atmosphere.  The moon lacks any significant atmosphere while the earth has a thick atmosphere.  The dust on the moon falls faster because there is no significant air resistance or wind.  Where as the dust on earth is getting blown around and has to overcome the air resistance of the atmosphere.

The video I posted shows the effect of this by dropping coins and feathers in a chamber.  Initially, the coins float down and the coins drop fast.  After they evacuate the air, or most of it, out of the chamber, the coins and feathers drop at the same rate.
Don't forget, you are also using your gravity ruse at one sixth, so what's it to be. A fast fall or a slow fall? A high jump or a low jump? A soft landing or a hard landing?
What do any of those things have to do with the effect of air resistance on a falling object?

Tappet was speciffically asking why the dust from the rover fell faster than dust does on earth.  I gave him an explination.  So do  you want to give me reasons why my explination is inadequate, or just go off on tangents?
Why do the actornauts fall or move slower as in slow motion. Don't say they don't. It's all there on any film you want to watch.