If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1290 on: January 10, 2014, 12:43:29 PM »
Easy! we vibrate the room and over time the snooker balls will agitate their mass through the less dense ping pong balls and push them out of the way by friction until they are on the bottom.
Do you agree with this?

Sorry but no - i disagree.

In a test tube, the sediment is suspended in water. The centrifuge spins, the heavier elements move to the bottom of the tube and so on. Air pressure cannot be the force pushing the sediment down - the water won't allow this. So, what force is causing the sediment to move to the bottom of the test tube?

Remember, we agreed friction is the result of two objects passing over each other a creating friction so unless there is movement in the first place, there can be no friction.
Do you know what keeps the sediment floating in those test tubes before they undergo centrifugal force?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1291 on: January 10, 2014, 12:45:23 PM »
Hey - you said ask the questions - I am doing just that. So, I'm willing to listen some more to the friction idea.
Ask as many question as you want. I have no problem with that. But when you ask and I answer, I at least expect you to think it over seriously. Most people just ask the questions and resort to calling tin foil when they don't get the answers they want to hear. If you are one of those then you picked on the wrong person. If not, then fair enough. Follow your own mind. Do not follow the masses.
So lets define friction. Friction is the resistance between one object and another when they move over each other. Can we agree on that first.
Yes we can.
If so, then again, how does friction play a part in sedimentation? What force causes one particle to move over another creating friction?
To answer this, I will use snooker balls and ping pong balls.
I fill a room half full with ping pong balls and then I pour in another quarter of it with snooker balls.
Ok, we know that the snooker balls will rest on the ping pong balls, so now we have density on top of less density. How do we separate them so that the snooker balls go to the bottom and the ping pong balls to the top.
Easy! we vibrate the room and over time the snooker balls will agitate their mass through the less dense ping pong balls and push them out of the way by friction until they are on the bottom.
Do you agree with this?
Why do the snooker balls go to the bottom, and not sideways or up?
Air pressure above and their density over the less dense ping pong balls.

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sokarul

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1292 on: January 10, 2014, 01:08:44 PM »
The only nonsense in this thread is you.

When a baseball player hits a ball, where does all the force go that was transferred from the bat to the ball?

If I was to drop a bouncy ball the air pressure would force the ball down as you say. Then the ball would hit the floor and then start to bounce back up. You would say that air is now forcing it up. Then the air would feel the need to not force it upwards and switch to force it down again. Doesn't make sense.

Why is it if I close my eyes and jump, I do not feel a force, but when I accelerate in my car I feel a force? How does air know when to cause a force to be felt and when not to?

Still waiting for answers.
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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1293 on: January 10, 2014, 01:13:45 PM »
The only nonsense in this thread is you.

When a baseball player hits a ball, where does all the force go that was transferred from the bat to the ball?

If I was to drop a bouncy ball the air pressure would force the ball down as you say. Then the ball would hit the floor and then start to bounce back up. You would say that air is now forcing it up. Then the air would feel the need to not force it upwards and switch to force it down again. Doesn't make sense.

Why is it if I close my eyes and jump, I do not feel a force, but when I accelerate in my car I feel a force? How does air know when to cause a force to be felt and when not to?

Still waiting for answers.
I think this is where we all pledge to stop responding to sceptic. His nonsense has gone on long enough.

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sokarul

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1294 on: January 10, 2014, 01:27:02 PM »
The only nonsense in this thread is you.

When a baseball player hits a ball, where does all the force go that was transferred from the bat to the ball?

If I was to drop a bouncy ball the air pressure would force the ball down as you say. Then the ball would hit the floor and then start to bounce back up. You would say that air is now forcing it up. Then the air would feel the need to not force it upwards and switch to force it down again. Doesn't make sense.

Why is it if I close my eyes and jump, I do not feel a force, but when I accelerate in my car I feel a force? How does air know when to cause a force to be felt and when not to?

Still waiting for answers.
I think this is where we all pledge to stop responding to sceptic. His nonsense has gone on long enough.
Just admit you can't answer them.
When you go against science, you lose. Newton figure out inertia around 300 years ago. I'm not quite sure why you thought you could disprove him.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 01:34:39 PM by sokarul »
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Scintific Method

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1295 on: January 10, 2014, 01:29:28 PM »
I've skipped a few pages, so I'm not sure if anyone brought up motorcycles in relation to inertia. Y'all have been focusing on the bus analogy, but what about a motorbike? I ride whenever I get the chance, and there's something I'd like to point out that are relevant to this discussion.

When accelerating hard from a standing start (or a rolling start, for that matter), it takes quite a bit of effort to stay on the bike. Once at a steady speed though, with the substantial increase in dynamic air pressure against the front of my body, it's relatively easy to remain in place. I feel this is a major contradiction to scepti's hypothesis that air pressure is the true source of inertia. How can it be, if I feel less like I'm going to fall off the back of my bike while maintaining 100kph (large pressure difference between the front and back of my body) than I do when accelerating from standstill (no pressure difference)?
From your standing start, you have balanced air pressure around you, right?
As soon as you accelerate  you are IMMEDIATELY pushing through the air at the front and it's that initial push which is key, because the air has not had the chance to come back around and equalize.
Basically you have created a High pressure at the front of you and a low pressure behind you and as long as you accelerate, this will always be the case and you will feel that higher pressure force, because you are going faster than the air can equalize behind you to basically cushion you.
As soon as you reach a set speed, you still feel the force you are travelling through at the front as in friction on your body, or pressure but it's also evened out behind you as in a balanced cushion of you like.

So, accelerating through the air creates a greater imbalance than moving through it at a constant (high) speed? This is illogical, and demonstrably false. Have a bit more of a think on it scepti, you won't convince anyone with this kind of thinking, not even a child.
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JiffyJuff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1296 on: January 10, 2014, 03:08:40 PM »
Hey - you said ask the questions - I am doing just that. So, I'm willing to listen some more to the friction idea.
Ask as many question as you want. I have no problem with that. But when you ask and I answer, I at least expect you to think it over seriously. Most people just ask the questions and resort to calling tin foil when they don't get the answers they want to hear. If you are one of those then you picked on the wrong person. If not, then fair enough. Follow your own mind. Do not follow the masses.
So lets define friction. Friction is the resistance between one object and another when they move over each other. Can we agree on that first.
Yes we can.
If so, then again, how does friction play a part in sedimentation? What force causes one particle to move over another creating friction?
To answer this, I will use snooker balls and ping pong balls.
I fill a room half full with ping pong balls and then I pour in another quarter of it with snooker balls.
Ok, we know that the snooker balls will rest on the ping pong balls, so now we have density on top of less density. How do we separate them so that the snooker balls go to the bottom and the ping pong balls to the top.
Easy! we vibrate the room and over time the snooker balls will agitate their mass through the less dense ping pong balls and push them out of the way by friction until they are on the bottom.
Do you agree with this?

Friction reduces your speed, not increasing it. You obviously don't know what friction is. You're just randomly substituting words when you don't know what to say. The snooker balls lie on top of the ping pong balls as a combination of friction against the ping pong balls and the physical ball blocking its path to the bottom. When you vibrate it, the balls move away from each other, so there is less friction, and thus the snooker balls will slowly slide down to the bottom.
The thing that makes things fall is the weight of the object falling.
Wow.

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Spank86

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1297 on: January 10, 2014, 03:21:25 PM »
If both people are on the same bike they would naturally lean the same way,what are you getting at?

Well I don't know what the answer to this is yet btw.

I just want to know which your theory predicts would need a greater angle of bike lean.

a fat person or a thin person not on the bike at the same time, at different times.

everything is equal except the rider.

I'd also like to know which would require more bike lean a person with a backpack full of polystyrene or with a  backpack full of bricks (same size backpack only the weight has changed).
Oh right, I do apologise, I thought you meant two people on the same bike as in pillion.

Ok, the thin person would have to lean more than the fat person.
And that's because of the less weight?

So If I have a backpack full of heavy stuff I will lean less than if I have an empty backpack.

got it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1298 on: January 10, 2014, 03:30:23 PM »
I've skipped a few pages, so I'm not sure if anyone brought up motorcycles in relation to inertia. Y'all have been focusing on the bus analogy, but what about a motorbike? I ride whenever I get the chance, and there's something I'd like to point out that are relevant to this discussion.

When accelerating hard from a standing start (or a rolling start, for that matter), it takes quite a bit of effort to stay on the bike. Once at a steady speed though, with the substantial increase in dynamic air pressure against the front of my body, it's relatively easy to remain in place. I feel this is a major contradiction to scepti's hypothesis that air pressure is the true source of inertia. How can it be, if I feel less like I'm going to fall off the back of my bike while maintaining 100kph (large pressure difference between the front and back of my body) than I do when accelerating from standstill (no pressure difference)?
From your standing start, you have balanced air pressure around you, right?
As soon as you accelerate  you are IMMEDIATELY pushing through the air at the front and it's that initial push which is key, because the air has not had the chance to come back around and equalize.
Basically you have created a High pressure at the front of you and a low pressure behind you and as long as you accelerate, this will always be the case and you will feel that higher pressure force, because you are going faster than the air can equalize behind you to basically cushion you.
As soon as you reach a set speed, you still feel the force you are travelling through at the front as in friction on your body, or pressure but it's also evened out behind you as in a balanced cushion of you like.

So, accelerating through the air creates a greater imbalance than moving through it at a constant (high) speed? This is illogical, and demonstrably false. Have a bit more of a think on it scepti, you won't convince anyone with this kind of thinking, not even a child.
I don't need to think on it. It's you and other that need to think on it. You simply won't allow yourselves to think on it because your minds are too reliant on the science you have been brought up to follow.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1299 on: January 10, 2014, 03:36:11 PM »
Hey - you said ask the questions - I am doing just that. So, I'm willing to listen some more to the friction idea.
Ask as many question as you want. I have no problem with that. But when you ask and I answer, I at least expect you to think it over seriously. Most people just ask the questions and resort to calling tin foil when they don't get the answers they want to hear. If you are one of those then you picked on the wrong person. If not, then fair enough. Follow your own mind. Do not follow the masses.
So lets define friction. Friction is the resistance between one object and another when they move over each other. Can we agree on that first.
Yes we can.
If so, then again, how does friction play a part in sedimentation? What force causes one particle to move over another creating friction?
To answer this, I will use snooker balls and ping pong balls.
I fill a room half full with ping pong balls and then I pour in another quarter of it with snooker balls.
Ok, we know that the snooker balls will rest on the ping pong balls, so now we have density on top of less density. How do we separate them so that the snooker balls go to the bottom and the ping pong balls to the top.
Easy! we vibrate the room and over time the snooker balls will agitate their mass through the less dense ping pong balls and push them out of the way by friction until they are on the bottom.
Do you agree with this?

Friction reduces your speed, not increasing it. You obviously don't know what friction is. You're just randomly substituting words when you don't know what to say. The snooker balls lie on top of the ping pong balls as a combination of friction against the ping pong balls and the physical ball blocking its path to the bottom. When you vibrate it, the balls move away from each other, so there is less friction, and thus the snooker balls will slowly slide down to the bottom.
Anything that moves together under any force is under friction. Before you tell me I know nothing, have a think.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1300 on: January 10, 2014, 03:38:31 PM »
If both people are on the same bike they would naturally lean the same way,what are you getting at?

Well I don't know what the answer to this is yet btw.

I just want to know which your theory predicts would need a greater angle of bike lean.

a fat person or a thin person not on the bike at the same time, at different times.

everything is equal except the rider.

I'd also like to know which would require more bike lean a person with a backpack full of polystyrene or with a  backpack full of bricks (same size backpack only the weight has changed).
Oh right, I do apologise, I thought you meant two people on the same bike as in pillion.

Ok, the thin person would have to lean more than the fat person.
And that's because of the less weight?

So If I have a backpack full of heavy stuff I will lean less than if I have an empty backpack.

got it.
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.

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Spank86

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1301 on: January 10, 2014, 04:25:01 PM »
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.
No, that actually IS the way it works.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1302 on: January 10, 2014, 04:35:34 PM »
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.
No, that actually IS the way it works.
Do you still hang onto gravity and inertia or have I got you thinking?

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Spank86

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1303 on: January 10, 2014, 04:39:22 PM »
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.
No, that actually IS the way it works.
Do you still hang onto gravity and inertia or have I got you thinking?
My only problem with your air pressure theory is it still doesn't explain why air is able to compress. If it didn't resist forces then it wouldn't compress except in a sealed container.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1304 on: January 10, 2014, 04:49:59 PM »
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.
No, that actually IS the way it works.
Do you still hang onto gravity and inertia or have I got you thinking?
My only problem with your air pressure theory is it still doesn't explain why air is able to compress. If it didn't resist forces then it wouldn't compress except in a sealed container.
The ground you stand on holds the air onto it and it's under pressure from the air above and above that and so on and so on.
The highest pressure is naturally at sea level and in the centre. We are round the edge of the dome.
Think of it like this.
If you ran into a shipping container full of air filled soft balls you will compress them and they will take your full weight plus energy you used to run into them and then they would eventually stop you when your energy and weight cannot push any further. Once that happens, you will be forced back because the balls will want to resume their natural shape...BUT, not all will, because they are all under the pressure of each other.
That's a basic blunt analogy and is not the entire story of it all but it should give you an idea what I'm talking about.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1305 on: January 10, 2014, 05:43:47 PM »
Just admit you can't answer them.
When you go against science, you lose. Newton figure out inertia around 300 years ago. I'm not quite sure why you thought you could disprove him.
Did you personally know Newton? You're certain he figured all this stuff out?
Or where you told about it?
I can disprove their science, whoever made it all up because I speak the truth and yet people appear to adhere to the ridiculousness of the claims of gravity and inertia when atmospheric pressure is literally hitting them in the face and proves everything that bogus gravity and inertia supposedly does...EXCEPT atmospheric pressure cannot account for the exploits of space and a global earth, so people discount atmospheric pressure because they smugly say, " it can't be a atmospheric pressure because it couldn't keep us on a spinning globe and space doesn't have any air or the moon."

What can you really say to that other than to roll your eyes and hope that people gather their senses and see it all for what it really is.

Ok I'll answer your questions, now.


When a baseball player hits a ball, where does all the force go that was transferred from the bat to the ball?
The force of the bat, hits the ball with whatever energy it's hit with and the ball absorbs the impact or compresses then springs off of the bat through the air. If this isn't enough, then elaborate.
If I was to drop a bouncy ball the air pressure would force the ball down as you say. Then the ball would hit the floor and then start to bounce back up. You would say that air is now forcing it up. Then the air would feel the need to not force it upwards and switch to force it down again. Doesn't make sense.
When you drop the ball, it's own weight pushes the air out of the way aided by the air above it following it's path downwards. The solid ground stops the ball from going into it, so the ball compresses against the ground and because it's full of air, that air gains more pressure against the air pressure above it so it springs up as far as the higher air pressure allows it to and then drops back down aided by the air above again and so on until it cannot compress against the ground anymore, so it stops bouncing.
Why is it if I close my eyes and jump, I do not feel a force, but when I accelerate in my car I feel a force? How does air know when to cause a force to be felt and when not to?
When you jump up, you do feel a force, because you are jumping up into air pressure that shoves you down, but because your head and shoulders are built to withstand that pressure, your body simply pushes it out of the way as much as the energy in your legs will allow.

It doesn't matter whether you are in a car or not, it's just a case of strength of force of acceleration with you quickly pushing the air in front of you before that air can get behind you to equalize and it will happen on all acceleration.
Take a look at a sprinter who gains speed and this may give you a clue as to what I'm saying.
Anything you can name employs the exact same thing, it's just a case of the different ways it happens, whether it's a bike, car, horse, plane, helicopter...centrifuge that separates solids from water, etc.
It's all atmospheric pressure.

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sokarul

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1306 on: January 10, 2014, 06:23:50 PM »
Just admit you can't answer them.
When you go against science, you lose. Newton figure out inertia around 300 years ago. I'm not quite sure why you thought you could disprove him.
Did you personally know Newton? You're certain he figured all this stuff out?
Or where you told about it?
I have seen his grave. I don't know the location where I first time told about him. Probably at school.
Quote
I can disprove their science, whoever made it all up because I speak the truth and yet people appear to adhere to the ridiculousness of the claims of gravity and inertia when atmospheric pressure is literally hitting them in the face and proves everything that bogus gravity and inertia supposedly does...EXCEPT atmospheric pressure cannot account for the exploits of space and a global earth, so people discount atmospheric pressure because they smugly say, " it can't be a atmospheric pressure because it couldn't keep us on a spinning globe and space doesn't have any air or the moon."
No, you can't.
Quote
Quote
quote author=sokarul link=topic=59785.msg1574664#msg1574664 date=1389389222]When a baseball player hits a ball, where does all the force go that was transferred from the bat to the ball?
The force of the bat, hits the ball with whatever energy it's hit with and the ball absorbs the impact or compresses then springs off of the bat through the air. If this isn't enough, then elaborate.
That is mostly what normal physics says what happens. That's not what you say, because it involves inertia.
Failed.
Quote
If I was to drop a bouncy ball the air pressure would force the ball down as you say. Then the ball would hit the floor and then start to bounce back up. You would say that air is now forcing it up. Then the air would feel the need to not force it upwards and switch to force it down again. Doesn't make sense.
When you drop the ball, it's own weight pushes the air out of the way aided by the air above it following it's path downwards. The solid ground stops the ball from going into it, so the ball compresses against the ground and because it's full of air, that air gains more pressure against the air pressure above it so it springs up as far as the higher air pressure allows it to and then drops back down aided by the air above again and so on until it cannot compress against the ground anymore, so it stops bouncing.
[/quote]
Bouncy balls don't have air in them. By your logic you would say that if I dropped an apple it should preform the same way.  Plus saying the air inside the ball forces it upwards is direct contradiction to what you have said before. Where is the air wrapping around the bouncy ball to force it up? Air sure knows what direction it should wrap around an object. Seem like you think air is self aware.
Failed.

Quote
Why is it if I close my eyes and jump, I do not feel a force, but when I accelerate in my car I feel a force? How does air know when to cause a force to be felt and when not to?
When you jump up, you do feel a force, because you are jumping up into air pressure that shoves you down, but because your head and shoulders are built to withstand that pressure, your body simply pushes it out of the way as much as the energy in your legs will allow.
No. There is no force felt in the downward angle. People jumping on trampolines don't always jump up head first. Skydivers only feel the force of the wind in their face.

These people aren't feeling a force. The air isn't pressurizing in the back to causing them to feel acceleration.
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">My zero gravity experience flight

Quote
It doesn't matter whether you are in a car or not, it's just a case of strength of force of acceleration with you quickly pushing the air in front of you before that air can get behind you to equalize and it will happen on all acceleration.
Take a look at a sprinter who gains speed and this may give you a clue as to what I'm saying.
Anything you can name employs the exact same thing, it's just a case of the different ways it happens, whether it's a bike, car, horse, plane, helicopter...centrifuge that separates solids from water, etc.
It's all atmospheric pressure.
You went 0/3.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 06:31:39 PM by sokarul »
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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1307 on: January 10, 2014, 06:30:13 PM »
Quote
Just admit you can't answer them.
When you go against science, you lose. Newton figure out inertia around 300 years ago. I'm not quite sure why you thought you could disprove him.
Did you personally know Newton? You're certain he figured all this stuff out?
Or where you told about it?
I have seen his grave. I don't know the location where I first time told about him. Probably a school.
Quote
I can disprove their science, whoever made it all up because I speak the truth and yet people appear to adhere to the ridiculousness of the claims of gravity and inertia when atmospheric pressure is literally hitting them in the face and proves everything that bogus gravity and inertia supposedly does...EXCEPT atmospheric pressure cannot account for the exploits of space and a global earth, so people discount atmospheric pressure because they smugly say, " it can't be a atmospheric pressure because it couldn't keep us on a spinning globe and space doesn't have any air or the moon."
No, you can't.




Quote
quote author=sokarul link=topic=59785.msg1574664#msg1574664 date=1389389222]When a baseball player hits a ball, where does all the force go that was transferred from the bat to the ball?
The force of the bat, hits the ball with whatever energy it's hit with and the ball absorbs the impact or compresses then springs off of the bat through the air. If this isn't enough, then elaborate.
That is mostly what normal physics says what happens. That's not what you say, because it involves inertia.
Failed.
Quote
If I was to drop a bouncy ball the air pressure would force the ball down as you say. Then the ball would hit the floor and then start to bounce back up. You would say that air is now forcing it up. Then the air would feel the need to not force it upwards and switch to force it down again. Doesn't make sense.
When you drop the ball, it's own weight pushes the air out of the way aided by the air above it following it's path downwards. The solid ground stops the ball from going into it, so the ball compresses against the ground and because it's full of air, that air gains more pressure against the air pressure above it so it springs up as far as the higher air pressure allows it to and then drops back down aided by the air above again and so on until it cannot compress against the ground anymore, so it stops bouncing.
Bouncy balls don't have air in them. By your logic you would say that if I dropped an apple it should preform the same way.  Plus saying the air inside the ball forces it upwards is direct contradiction to what you have said before. Where is the air wrapping around the bouncy ball to force it up? Air sure knows what direction it should wrap around an object. Seem like you think air is self aware.
Failed.

Quote
Why is it if I close my eyes and jump, I do not feel a force, but when I accelerate in my car I feel a force? How does air know when to cause a force to be felt and when not to?
When you jump up, you do feel a force, because you are jumping up into air pressure that shoves you down, but because your head and shoulders are built to withstand that pressure, your body simply pushes it out of the way as much as the energy in your legs will allow.
No. There is no force felt in the downward angle. People jumping on trampolines don't always jump up head first. Skydivers only feel the force of the wind in their face.

These people aren't feeling a force. The air isn't pressurizing in the back to causing them to feel acceleration.
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">My zero gravity experience flight

Quote
It doesn't matter whether you are in a car or not, it's just a case of strength of force of acceleration with you quickly pushing the air in front of you before that air can get behind you to equalize and it will happen on all acceleration.
Take a look at a sprinter who gains speed and this may give you a clue as to what I'm saying.
Anything you can name employs the exact same thing, it's just a case of the different ways it happens, whether it's a bike, car, horse, plane, helicopter...centrifuge that separates solids from water, etc.
It's all atmospheric pressure.
You went 0/3.
[/quote]Absolutely clueless. Don't pretend you know what's what and tell me I don't by saying what you have just said.
You have no intention of gaining a reality of anything if it goes against the stuff that mainstream science drummed into your brain.
Consider this my last reply to you. You can type as much as you want to me but you will never receive a reply from this point on.

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sokarul

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1308 on: January 10, 2014, 06:47:11 PM »
Absolutely clueless. Don't pretend you know what's what and tell me I don't by saying what you have just said.
You have no intention of gaining a reality of anything if it goes against the stuff that mainstream science drummed into your brain.
Consider this my last reply to you. You can type as much as you want to me but you will never receive a reply from this point on.
I destroyed your argument so hard you have to run away with your tail between your legs.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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ausGeoff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1309 on: January 10, 2014, 07:13:32 PM »

Do you still hang onto gravity and inertia or have I got you thinking?


What's making this particular debate so difficult is that you're maintaining that both gravity and inertia (or mass; same thing) do not exist.

Until you accept the unequivocal scientific evidence that both phenomena do exist, then we ain't gonna get nowhere... and fast!

So... can you please define specifically what your model replaces gravity and inertia with?  And please bear in mind the the accepted scientific definitions for both do not rely at all on the functions of either density or pressure.

Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1310 on: January 10, 2014, 08:00:21 PM »
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.
No, that actually IS the way it works.
Do you still hang onto gravity and inertia or have I got you thinking?
My only problem with your air pressure theory is it still doesn't explain why air is able to compress. If it didn't resist forces then it wouldn't compress except in a sealed container.
There are a lot of problems with this theory, this is just one. One basic thing which I still cannot understand is why things fall. Air pressure acts equally on all directions (provided the object it's sufficiently small so that height is not a concern), so there's no preferred direction for pressure to push. The only "explanation" I've seen for this is that denser objects tend to go down "because this is their natural state".
Also the bus thing: all the bit about when the bus accelerates or turns the "forces are unbalanced" (what forces?) sounds like a roundabout way of describing inertia.

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ausGeoff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1311 on: January 10, 2014, 08:10:19 PM »

There are a lot of problems with this theory, this is just one. One basic thing which I still cannot understand is why things fall. Air pressure acts equally on all directions (provided the object it's sufficiently small so that height is not a concern), so there's no preferred direction for pressure to push. The only "explanation" I've seen for this is that denser objects tend to go down "because this is their natural state".
Also the bus thing: all the bit about when the bus accelerates or turns the "forces are unbalanced" (what forces?) sounds like a roundabout way of describing inertia.


sceptimatic has no concept of the scientific definition of pressure (as force per unit area) and rather sticks with his incomprehensible personal definition.  He seems to think atmospheric pressure acts in one direction, and fails to understand that it acts in all directions equally and simultaneously.

He also disbelieves in the force of gravity, but instead insists it's air pressure that's holding us "down" on the planet's surface.

He also seems to misunderstand that in geophysics, there is no "up" and no "down".

?

Antonio

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1312 on: January 10, 2014, 10:36:44 PM »
Experiment One:
A bus, a kid on a skateboard, placed just behind the driver, in the aisle . All doors closed.

We start with both the bus and the kid at rest, relative to the road. A starting line has been drawn on it and the kid is just above it.
Now, the bus starts, accelerating up to -say - 20 mph, when his rear end crosses the starting line.

What would be the speed of the kid just before he crashes into the rear glass of the bus, and its direction ? A rough estimate is ok.
What would be his position, relative to the starting line ?
Is the bus still accelerating after it hits 20 or holding a constant 20 mph speed as the kid hits the line?
Give the two alternatives if you want
If the kid is on the skateboard and the bus accelerates to 20 mph as he hits the line and then the bus speed stays at that constant speed from that point, then, apart from a few wobbles of balance, the kid will move over the line a little, then move back to the line (approx).
Why does this happen?
Because the air push on his back started his motion as the bus was accelerating and compressing the air... but when it stopped accelerating...the compressed air starts to balance back up, meaning it goes back to the front to fill the very last bit of low pressure and this will be felt as a sort of kick back, basically stopping the kid in his tracks and moving him back a touch.
Are you saying that the speed of the kid is nearly 0, as he didn't move ?
No, I'm not saying that at all. Unless I've took you wrong, you said that the kid reaches the line as the bus accelerated to 20 mph, so I just used the fact he reached the line when the bus reached a steady speed.
I stated that the kid was inside the bus. Sorry, I was probably unclear.
The kid, inside the bus, is located just below the driver's seat. The bus starts and achieves a 20 mph speed when his rear end crosses the start line. Can you describe the variation of the kid's speed and his position during this event ?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1313 on: January 11, 2014, 04:54:17 AM »
What's making this particular debate so difficult is that you're maintaining that both gravity and inertia (or mass; same thing) do not exist.
I'm maintaining they do not exist because they do not exist. It's easy to simply say mass is gravity and inertia or whatever you want but it means absolutely nothing. It's just a saying that describes anything scientists want it to describe about movement or resistance, when it's all to do with atmospheric pressure and it should be fairly clear to anyone who cares to look at it from that point of view.
If the tables were turned and mainstream science drummed it into peoples heads, correctly that is was atmospheric pressure and I came along and said, " no, no, it's inertia and gravity", I would be asked, " ok then you nut, what is gravity?" to which I reply, " well, I don't actually know what it is, just that it does all this stuff", to which the mainstream masses (after laughing) would say, " what a crazy mixed up nut, making up a force and yet can't explain the force, other than to say it's a force, when we have proved that atmospheric pressure is the reason for things working."
Deny that claim if you want, but you know I'm right.
Until you accept the unequivocal scientific evidence that both phenomena do exist, then we ain't gonna get nowhere... and fast!
I'm not interested in whether you want to get anywhere. That's up to you and you appear stuck to your gravity and inertia and do not even appear remotely interested in questioning it, which as I said, is fair enough.
I will continue to put it forward no matter what comes back, because I know for a FACT that what I'm saying is absolutely correct.
So... can you please define specifically what your model replaces gravity and inertia with?  And please bear in mind the the accepted scientific definitions for both do not rely at all on the functions of either density or pressure.
It depends on what the scientific world tell you density is or weight or mass or anything else. Basically I can play with all the names given because ultimately they all end up being a part of the same thing.
They may be told in scientific terms as different but they are basically the same. It's just that the scientific world does not like to play simple games, as it would destroy a lot of the fantasy stuff that's added.
Mass/weight/density when married up with the reality of atmospheric pressure being the reason and cause of everything this earth has and does, are the very same thing.

We weigh ourselves and some people weigh heavier that are taller and smaller and it can be said that any person has more mass or is more dense than the other or it can be said that they weigh more.
It's all basically the same thing.
Oh, I'm well aware this will be jumped on with the usual stuff of, I don't understand physics and science and all the rest and that's fine, because finding out the truth requires ANY person to discard the rubbish and dust themselves down, then start from scratch, (yes, scratch) because the scientific world is not the world you live in and it's laws are not the real laws you live under.
To understand it..a person MUST never be shy of looking into the alternatives and must never be intimidated to the point of just following the larger number because it's less hassle.
You all have a brain and it's inside your own skull, which makes you independent in thought, so use it and question this stuff seriously and come to your OWN conclusions, no matter how much questioning it takes.

Don't just accept things on face value because you think fits and you think everything works because they told you so....use your brain.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1314 on: January 11, 2014, 05:09:55 AM »
Basically, yes. I don't know if you meant to say this to be sarcastic but you are correct anyway.
No, that actually IS the way it works.
Do you still hang onto gravity and inertia or have I got you thinking?
My only problem with your air pressure theory is it still doesn't explain why air is able to compress. If it didn't resist forces then it wouldn't compress except in a sealed container.
There are a lot of problems with this theory, this is just one. One basic thing which I still cannot understand is why things fall. Air pressure acts equally on all directions (provided the object it's sufficiently small so that height is not a concern), so there's no preferred direction for pressure to push. The only "explanation" I've seen for this is that denser objects tend to go down "because this is their natural state".
Also the bus thing: all the bit about when the bus accelerates or turns the "forces are unbalanced" (what forces?) sounds like a roundabout way of describing inertia.
There are no problems with my theory. The only problems are what people make for themselves without thinking it through.
To understand it all and why it all works, think of all objects/matter of any size being ejected by force, into an area that it is not naturally part of.
For instance: A volcanic eruption will spew matter into the atmosphere by force but what is spewed out, is not part of that environment because its natural state was where it was ejected from and below, so it cannot take its place in the atmospheric sandwich or elements we see as sky. All that can happen is, some elements will be naturally separated in that explosion, like maybe helium and other elements which would make their way UP, yet to out eyes, we would see it all fall back down.

From the bottom of the earth to the top, everything has it's own place and everything is under agitation due to pressure and temperature changes and like salmon going up stream, elements are ejected into unnatural places in terms of where they should really be.
The thing is...earth has a way of putting it all back, slowly (to our perception) which is why everything decays to us, but is really only being recycled back into their natural element form.

Nothing gets destroyed, just recycled.


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ausGeoff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1315 on: January 11, 2014, 05:32:02 AM »
Oh dear.....

I must admit it's very difficult to argue against "logic" such as this.....

Quote
I'm maintaining they do not exist because they do not exist.

I'd really love to see sceptimatic in a court of law defending himself against a charge of armed robbery.

"No your honour; I didn't steal that million bucks from the bank".

"OK sceptimatic; that's good enough for me.  Off you go".

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1316 on: January 11, 2014, 05:37:13 AM »

There are a lot of problems with this theory, this is just one. One basic thing which I still cannot understand is why things fall. Air pressure acts equally on all directions (provided the object it's sufficiently small so that height is not a concern), so there's no preferred direction for pressure to push. The only "explanation" I've seen for this is that denser objects tend to go down "because this is their natural state".
Also the bus thing: all the bit about when the bus accelerates or turns the "forces are unbalanced" (what forces?) sounds like a roundabout way of describing inertia.


sceptimatic has no concept of the scientific definition of pressure (as force per unit area) and rather sticks with his incomprehensible personal definition.  He seems to think atmospheric pressure acts in one direction, and fails to understand that it acts in all directions equally and simultaneously.

He also disbelieves in the force of gravity, but instead insists it's air pressure that's holding us "down" on the planet's surface.

He also seems to misunderstand that in geophysics, there is no "up" and no "down".
If people took the time to look at things in a basic and simplistic manner they would learn a hell of a lot more about life than simply hanging on to centuries old fables about people who worked this and that out and constantly reminded that these people were the real deal of their time.
Old mother Hubbard went to the cupboard to fetch little rover a bone. Who is she? did rover get the bone or did she really have a bone in that cupboard? was there actually a cupboard or a dog or was old mother Hubbard, real?
What about Jack Spratt?
You can believe in any story you want to and they could build a museum with a so called replica of old mother Hubbards' kitchen with a stuffed dog and a mannequin doll as Hubbard stood with the cupboard door open and holding a bone, as the stuffed rover is looking up with its tongue out.
Does that make it a historic reality?

People only know what they read about and are told about and it goes for everything, including earth and it's shape and space and it's so called planets and stars and suns, etc.
To make it all sound believable it's all fitted together like a jig saw by the people that want to tell you the story and it takes time to tell a story if it's a long story and to make it a believable story, you have to make it interesting and amazing and add in some characters, like Greek brainiacs so they can add in some Greek letter, words and what not, just to add to the baffling amazement.

Open your minds and stop going with the flow of people that decide that others with alternative theories/hypotheses, are tin foil hat nutters just because mainstream scientists tell you they are whilst they pat you on the back for studying your physics book of earth and space and all the other stuff that they saturate your head with that cannot be proved but is told to you as , "it is that and that's that."

Wake yourselves up and have a look around you and use your brain to question, not just accept without question.

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ausGeoff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1317 on: January 11, 2014, 05:39:28 AM »

We weigh ourselves and some people weigh heavier that are taller and smaller and it can be said that any person has more mass or is more dense than the other or it can be said that they weigh more.


You're still confusing weight with mass,  They're two totally different things.  In a scientific context, mass refers to the amount of "matter" in an object,  whereas weight refers to the force experienced by an object due to gravity.

And again, density has NOTHING to do with mass per se.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1318 on: January 11, 2014, 05:40:27 AM »
Oh dear.....

I must admit it's very difficult to argue against "logic" such as this.....

Quote
I'm maintaining they do not exist because they do not exist.

I'd really love to see sceptimatic in a court of law defending himself against a charge of armed robbery.

"No your honour; I didn't steal that million bucks from the bank".

"OK sceptimatic; that's good enough for me.  Off you go".
The difference is, I am making my case with logical explanations. You lot are making your case with illogical explanations.


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ausGeoff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1319 on: January 11, 2014, 05:43:25 AM »

People only know what they read about and are told about and it goes for everything  [...]


Can you tell us exactly what sources you utilised to gain the knowledge that you currently have?  Presumably you didn't learn it from books, or teachers?  What other sources are there—the ones you used?