ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)

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jason_85

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Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2013, 05:06:14 PM »
Why is her hair up in the first place in weightlessness.

If it was staged, and your question wasn't stupid, why would they make her hair go up?
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2013, 05:15:27 PM »
Why wouldn't her hair be up?  It's weightless.  It can be wherever it wants.  It looks pretty evenly spread out to me, given that hair tends to grow on the top half of the human head.  Nothing you've pointed out "violate" any expectations.  When she turned sideways, didn't you notice her grabbing on to a hold on the left, almost as if she was pulling on it to turn the rest of her sideways intentionally?  Perhaps as a way to open the interview?

See, this is what I'm talking about.  You quibble over such small, irrelevant things that don't actually violate any physical expectations, and ignore the much larger problems that your own hypothesis presents, forcing you to come up with even more contrived explanations.

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Sculder

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  • Me and Mully
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2013, 05:16:35 PM »
I'm well aware of the laws of motion, but they don't apply to gravity.

It's baffling how much stupid you can fit into such small sentences.
You're really going to have to stop with all this. You can't constantly call people stupid and then accuse them of trolling can you. Behave yourself man and just argue your case. If you want to call me stupid then use the rant section and really go to town. Now stop being a silly boy.

Maybe he can't make up his mind whether you're a troll or you're just stupid.  ;D
I don't want to believe.

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jason_85

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Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2013, 05:17:42 PM »
Maybe he can't make up his mind whether you're a troll or you're just stupid.  ;D

I honestly, truly can't.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2013, 05:21:02 PM »
Be careful to avoid the false sense of equivalency that concerns asking questions.  Just because you can ask a question doesn't mean it's a good question.  For example, your question "why is her hair up in the first place" isn't a very good question, since it presumes purpose when there might not be any at all.  A much better question is "if she's on a zero-g plane, why doesn't her hair move about as if 2 Gs of force were acting on it when the plane had to go up?"  This is something that violates well-established expectations.  None of your questions violate any such expectations, making them not very helpful or interesting.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2013, 05:26:02 PM »
I find it very curious how you have the audacity to imply that my explanations are contrived, when you yourself are suffering from a serious case of confirmation bias.  You see, you've already made up your mind before even asking the question, and it betrays you in your vocabulary ("astroliar"; seriously?).  While I am in a similar position, I try very hard to not let my bias get in the way of my reasoning.  I tend to not go off on rants about how one very particular subset of possibilities must be true, unlike you, unfortunately, when you start talking about how I'm gullible and how they obviously use hairgel as if it's some profound point with huge amounts of evidence.  I'm able to mostly keep my bias out of my reasoning, but you seem to have a lot of trouble doing that, and it betrays your credibility and the legitimacy of your agenda.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 05:31:47 PM by Levi Dettwyler »

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jason_85

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Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2013, 05:26:42 PM »
Be careful to avoid the false sense of equivalency that concerns asking questions.  Just because you can ask a question doesn't mean it's a good question.  For example, your question "why is her hair up in the first place" isn't a very good question, since it presumes purpose when there might not be any at all.  A much better question is "if she's on a zero-g plane, why doesn't her hair move about as if 2 Gs of force were acting on it when the plane had to go up?"  This is something that violates well-established expectations.  None of your questions violate any such expectations, making them not very helpful or interesting.

Thank you!

Scepti, this could be applied to just about all of your stupid questions.

And I know you don't like being called stupid, so please keep in mind I am not calling you stupid (if I ever did that, I apologise). What I mean to say, is that your questions and your attitude are stupid. You might be a troll genius for all I know.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2013, 05:37:01 PM »
Well, this escalated quickly.

Hopefully we can get back to discussing some of the more interesting and relevant questions, like why her hair doesn't undergo any significant changes, despite the necessity of the plane to travel upward multiple times, exerting just under 2 Gs of force on everything in it?

Note: "its a mixture of effects" is not an answer, as it doesn't actually explain anything, let alone answer the question.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2013, 05:44:42 PM »
When I see liars, I call out, "liars"...when I see bad acting, I laugh and when I see large amounts of money supposedly funding a so called project like this just so some random men and women can sit or float about telling us how to drink a blob of water, brush teeth, eat peanut butter and jelly pitta bread sandwiches and one astroliar showing us how they use the toilet, then opens a silly lid for supposed number 2's then grabs a yellow flexible pipe for number 1's and then tells us all that they are colour coded so they know which one to use for which....it's such a massive piss take of out intelligence that all you can do is laugh at them, yet some people hang onto it like doe eyed kids...that's the scary bit.

I expect little doe eyed kids to fall for it...but not adults.

If something is labeled "tour," I expect to be shown things like the bathroom facilities, especially if it's in space.  That's what makes it a tour.  How people use the toilet in space is a very popular question.  It might be a "piss" on your exalted intelligence, but keep in mind that the videos they put out are not designed special for you.  It's this misconception that seems to drive a lot of the irrelevant questions being asked, like one from your video asking something to the order of "why didn't they point the camera out one of their windows?"  Well, for one, they actually DO do that in some of their videos, and two, it's only because you are expecting the point of these videos to be a defense of the truthfulness of the ISS program that you see something like this as significant.  In the competing frame of mind, which states that these are essentially just a step above home videos, except in space, that question doesn't many any sense or demonstrate any relevancy at all.  Take care that the questions you put forward are actually useful questions with relevance grounded in reality, and not just the product of your own framework.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2013, 05:49:13 PM »
Again with the not actually explaining anything, yet for some reason demanding explanations from me.  What is excusing you from giving coherent explanations to my questions, but not excusing me from giving answers to your questions?  Am I allowed to just say "because it's in space" and have that be the end of it?  You seem to think that you're allowed to say "it's just special effects" and have that be the end of it.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2013, 06:08:35 PM »
I've given you explanations.
so naturally I can only make best guesses to how it's all done in it's entirety.

You claim to offer explanations, but then admit that they're just "best guesses."

When your beliefs start demanding that you defend them with "guesses" (note: not just the act of guessing, but guessing for the purpose of defending your beliefs), I think it might be time to reexamine your certainty of those beliefs, like any good detective would do.  Detectives don't defend beliefs with "guesses."  They make guesses only for investigation and with intention of following up on them.  You are not doing this.

While waiting for a "slip up" from me, you ended up tripping over your own detective coat, thereby demonstrating that it probably doesn't fit you.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:23:37 PM by Levi Dettwyler »

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Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2013, 06:11:33 PM »
When I see liars, I call out, "liars"...

Actually, it seems more like, when you see something you don't understand, you call out "liars" instead of making an actual attempt to understand it.

Just think of me as a detective Levi and you are in the interrogation room with many alibi's, yet I'm trying to gain a confession or a slip up as I don't buy your story.

And, just like a detective who has the wrong suspect, you are doomed to failure.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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jason_85

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Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2013, 06:12:28 PM »
When has failure every stopped him?
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2013, 06:36:58 PM »
When I see liars, I call out, "liars"...

Actually, it seems more like, when you see something you don't understand, you call out "liars" instead of making an actual attempt to understand it.

Just think of me as a detective Levi and you are in the interrogation room with many alibi's, yet I'm trying to gain a confession or a slip up as I don't buy your story.

And, just like a detective who has the wrong suspect, you are doomed to failure.
I never let my suspects go easily and I can keep them under the hot lamp day by day, often denying them any meaningful sleep, as well as myself though...me being dedicated to finding the truth.
You wont find anything. you think you know the truth already. so you ask questions hoping to confirm your "truth". but your questions always have good and logical answers. all you can do is ignore the answers keep asking.
I bet every detective would like to have suspects as colaborative as yours.

-"where is jessica's body?!"

-"she is in her house and is not dead btw"

-"do you have any evidence of this claims?"

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Sculder

  • 113
  • Me and Mully
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #74 on: April 07, 2013, 06:37:56 PM »
When I see liars, I call out, "liars"...

Actually, it seems more like, when you see something you don't understand, you call out "liars" instead of making an actual attempt to understand it.

Just think of me as a detective Levi and you are in the interrogation room with many alibi's, yet I'm trying to gain a confession or a slip up as I don't buy your story.

And, just like a detective who has the wrong suspect, you are doomed to failure.
I never let my suspects go easily and I can keep them under the hot lamp day by day, often denying them any meaningful sleep, as well as myself though...me being dedicated to finding the truth.

I'm sorry... this has absolutely nothing to do with the ISS. I just wanted to say...

I don't want to believe.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2013, 07:05:37 PM »
I'm well aware of the laws of motion, but they don't apply to gravity.

It's baffling how much stupid you can fit into such small sentences.
You're really going to have to stop with all this. You can't constantly call people stupid and then accuse them of trolling can you. Behave yourself man and just argue your case. If you want to call me stupid then use the rant section and really go to town. Now stop being a silly boy.

He's just saying what we're all thinking Sceptimatic. Despite how pointless it seems to try to educate you, let's look a little bit at why that was so stupid.

The laws of inertia states that a mass will maintain it's velocity unless acted on by a force. Throwing a ball in the air, it accelerates by the force from your muscles. Once it leaves your hand, it decelerates due to the force of gravity (or in your world a force equivalent to gravity).

So to say that you understand the laws of motion in one breath and to deny gravity in the next, and complain when people point out your stupidity, well I guess that's just thinking Sceptimatically!
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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jason_85

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Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2013, 07:18:12 PM »
There isn't any magical gravity force though.
The magical gravity force is there because it is needed for the globe model to work.
There is no force but the force that a person or machine puts on an object or an objects own weight/mass is put onto another object.
There is no such thing as gravity, that is my wholehearted belief.

That's fine scepti, but it is your belief, and nothing more until you are able to provide the rest of us with a logical explanation for why you believe these things. You have been unable or unwilling to do this thus far.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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jason_85

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Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2013, 07:19:40 PM »
I don't mean that facetiously either. It really is ok that you believe the earth is flat. There's nothing wrong with that. But for those of us who consider the shape of the earth more than just a belief and consider it subject to scientific inquiry, we need a little more, and until you or some other member can provide that you should not be surprised if we don't take your ideas very seriously.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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jason_85

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  • 4D n-sphere earth believer
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2013, 07:43:53 PM »
I don't mean that facetiously either. It really is ok that you believe the earth is flat. There's nothing wrong with that. But for those of us who consider the shape of the earth more than just a belief and consider it subject to scientific inquiry, we need a little more, and until you or some other member can provide that you should not be surprised if we don't take your ideas very seriously.
Let's be totally honest here ok.
You have the world of science backing you up, what do these people have on here?
Answer:.....Themselves and also a variation of theories backed up by no main stream scientists, or should I say none that want to keep their jobs but I bet there's many that think differently than what they are spewing out to the public.

Basically, you and people like you can back up everything you say, because there is a world library of info on what you believe in.
What the flat earth believers have, is their own library but built up by a tiny fraction of people compared with what you have at hand. There's a massive difference.

I can't argue with that. An honest inquiry into the reasons for this state of things would be illuminating no doubt...
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2013, 07:53:01 PM »
The magical gravity force is there because it is needed for the globe model to work.

It seems kind of hypocritical to say that gravity is just there to make the round world model work when you could say the same of the universal accelerator and the flat earth model.  The universal accelerator explains one thing and one thing alone.  Gravity explains many things.  Without gravity, suddenly you don't know how the elements in the universe were formed, nor can you account for why observed abundances of elements in the universe match up so well with what is predicted with a universe with gravity and a big bang.  Gravity explains why the solar system exists, why the galaxy exists, why people observe black holes, why there are variations in the moon's orbit, why tides exist, why stars go supernova, and how matter was able to coalesce in order to eventually form things like plants and people.  The universal accelerator, on the other hand, explains just one thing: 9.81 m/sē.

So I ask, which one is more contrived?  The fantastic thing that explains just one thing, or the fantastic thing that explains many things?  For some reason, you say the thing that explains many things, but not the thing that explains just one thing.

I would also ask how the universal accelerator is less magical than gravity.  In gravity, you don't lose or gain any energy.  With the universal accelerator, however, it constantly requires energy going into the system, and that seems pretty suspect.

Note: in the event that you don't believe in any of the thing I mentioned, for whatever reason, just change it to "gravity explains why people report that _____".  Otherwise, you are forced to invoke that either it's just a massive coincidence that the universe acts like it has gravity and that the world is round, or that even more people are lying to you, for some reason.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:59:59 PM by Levi Dettwyler »

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2013, 08:09:48 PM »
I'm well aware of the laws of motion, but they don't apply to gravity.

It's baffling how much stupid you can fit into such small sentences.
You're really going to have to stop with all this. You can't constantly call people stupid and then accuse them of trolling can you. Behave yourself man and just argue your case. If you want to call me stupid then use the rant section and really go to town. Now stop being a silly boy.

He's just saying what we're all thinking Sceptimatic. Despite how pointless it seems to try to educate you, let's look a little bit at why that was so stupid.

The laws of inertia states that a mass will maintain it's velocity unless acted on by a force. Throwing a ball in the air, it accelerates by the force from your muscles. Once it leaves your hand, it decelerates due to the force of gravity (or in your world a force equivalent to gravity).

So to say that you understand the laws of motion in one breath and to deny gravity in the next, and complain when people point out your stupidity, well I guess that's just thinking Sceptimatically!
There isn't any magical gravity force though.
The magical gravity force is there because it is needed for the globe model to work.
There is no force but the force that a person or machine puts on an object or an objects own weight/mass is put onto another object.
There is no such thing as gravity, that is my wholehearted belief.

If you believe in the law of inertia, then you believe there is a force acting on things to make them fall. Your beliefs don't enter into it. If you want to abandon the laws of motion, I don't really care, but I hope you can see why what you said is not even logically valid.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2013, 08:23:29 PM »
I don't believe in all the things you just said. I can't explain gravity in any sense, because it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

Note: in the event that you don't believe in any of the thing I mentioned, for whatever reason, just change it to "gravity explains why people report that _____".  Otherwise, you are forced to invoke that either it's just a massive coincidence that the universe acts like it has gravity and that the world is round, or that even more people are lying to you, for some reason.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2013, 08:35:47 PM »
Why does the universe act like it has gravity? Explain.

I said otherwise.  Perhaps I didn't state it very clearly.  My point was that you should invoke "gravity explains why people report that ______" if you don't believe that _____ actually happens.

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2013, 08:41:55 PM »
What am I supposed to explain here?

Not you, the people that study things like galaxy formation, black holes (like Stephen Hawking!), and other things that depend on gravity.  If you think all of these people are liars, though, then you can still say that gravity, in contrast to what you believe, explains a lot of things; namely why they report what they do, in contrast to your belief.  Thus, just comparing gravity to the universal accelerator, gravity still explains more things, making it kind of silly to call it more contrived than the universal accelerator.  The universal accelerator doesn't explain why they lie, so in order to get up to par with what gravity explains, you need the universal accelerator plus a whole bunch of accusations of a whole lot of people lying.

Note: read the above paragraph very, very carefully.

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jason_85

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  • 4D n-sphere earth believer
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2013, 08:43:14 PM »
The thing that makes things fall is the weight of the object falling.

For instance. An apple on a tree on a thin branch will stay there until it starts to gain weight or grow, in which case, that weight will pull on the branch making it bend and so on and so on, until the apple is too heavy for the bud it's hanging from and eventually it's weight /mass makes it drop.
There is no force acting on it from outside of it, just it's own weight, which exerts it's own force on the branch and once it releases from the branch, the branch springs back up a little and the apple lays on the ground, exerting it's own weight/mass onto the ground.
The only force acting on the apple from tree to floor is it's own weight and wind speeds.

If you want to be taken seriously with these kinds of ideas, you have to explain where the energy to pull the fruit off the tree is coming from. If there is no gravity, what force is being applied to the apple? Where is energy coming from and what happens to the momentum of the apple when it hits the ground? Why do apples fall down and not up?
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2013, 08:45:34 PM »
For instance. An apple on a tree on a thin branch will stay there until it starts to gain weight or grow, in which case, that weight will pull on the branch making it bend and so on and so on, until the apple is too heavy for the bud it's hanging from and eventually it's weight /mass makes it drop.
There is no force acting on it from outside of it, just it's own weight, which exerts it's own force on the branch and once it releases from the branch, the branch springs back up a little and the apple lays on the ground, exerting it's own weight/mass onto the ground.
The only force acting on the apple from tree to floor is it's own weight and wind speeds.

So what gives the apple weight? It has mass, but if I were to measure it's weight here, then go somewhere where this thing most people refer to as gravity is just slightly weaker or stronger, the weight will change, but the mass will stay the same. All of this is pretty easy to measure, so why does the mass stay the same but the weight change?
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2013, 08:46:33 PM »
Speaking of people lying, which is more in-tune with this thread's original topic, I've made a new thread to compile all of the people / organizations that have to be part of "The Conspiracy" in order for the flat earth hypothesis to make sense.  Let's help the FES update their wiki so they can expose these faceless scum for who and what they really are!

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2013, 07:47:49 AM »
I'm well aware of the laws of motion, but they don't apply to gravity.

It's baffling how much stupid you can fit into such small sentences.
You're really going to have to stop with all this. You can't constantly call people stupid and then accuse them of trolling can you. Behave yourself man and just argue your case. If you want to call me stupid then use the rant section and really go to town. Now stop being a silly boy.

He's just saying what we're all thinking Sceptimatic. Despite how pointless it seems to try to educate you, let's look a little bit at why that was so stupid.

The laws of inertia states that a mass will maintain it's velocity unless acted on by a force. Throwing a ball in the air, it accelerates by the force from your muscles. Once it leaves your hand, it decelerates due to the force of gravity (or in your world a force equivalent to gravity).

So to say that you understand the laws of motion in one breath and to deny gravity in the next, and complain when people point out your stupidity, well I guess that's just thinking Sceptimatically!
There isn't any magical gravity force though.
The magical gravity force is there because it is needed for the globe model to work.
There is no force but the force that a person or machine puts on an object or an objects own weight/mass is put onto another object.
There is no such thing as gravity, that is my wholehearted belief.

If you believe in the law of inertia, then you believe there is a force acting on things to make them fall. Your beliefs don't enter into it. If you want to abandon the laws of motion, I don't really care, but I hope you can see why what you said is not even logically valid.
The thing that makes things fall is the weight of the object falling.

For instance. An apple on a tree on a thin branch will stay there until it starts to gain weight or grow, in which case, that weight will pull on the branch making it bend and so on and so on, until the apple is too heavy for the bud it's hanging from and eventually it's weight /mass makes it drop.
There is no force acting on it from outside of it, just it's own weight, which exerts it's own force on the branch and once it releases from the branch, the branch springs back up a little and the apple lays on the ground, exerting it's own weight/mass onto the ground.
The only force acting on the apple from tree to floor is it's own weight and wind speeds.
how does the apply know which way to fall?  why not up or sideways?  what makes it go in the downward direction?  sure you want to say everything has a weight but why all in the same direction?

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2013, 07:52:04 AM »
And dont give me your spelling error BS.  yeah I spelled apple wrong.  lets hear an answer.  do the apples discuss among each other?  or maybe just CUZ?

Re: ISS Tour (and the difficulty of faking things)
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2013, 09:12:18 AM »
And dont give me your spelling error BS.  yeah I spelled apple wrong.  lets hear an answer.  do the apples discuss among each other?  or maybe just CUZ?

i feel unable to add to the varied and intelligent alternatives listed by you, to assist in the exciting activity of choice making that is mistaken for the act of thinking for oneself, by the thoroughly indoctrinated.

the presentation of lists giving the options inferred, at the very same moment of the completion of the question being asked, is indicative of the informed while unformed confused state of mind that is the goal of those that fear clear thinking people to increase in number.

your input would provide anyone who fears clear thinking with a sense of profound safety.