How many organizations are lying? (or: it's time to update the wiki)

Quote from: Pythagoras on April 13, 2013, 12:59:11 PM

yes i understand that but what im getting at is all pilots and navigators can navigate using charts and up until the wide spread use of computers traveled around the world using nothing but paper charts. charts that are based on the world being round.

I agree with you. But the point is that whether you use computers or paper charts, they are all based on round earth maps or the world being round .

agreed. 
over to you sceptic. im sure you will propose something ridiculousness.

Pythagoras I'm coming up on 11:07:00 UTC and I haven't seen any replies to your posting to Sceptimatic of 08:07:15 UTC and it's been 3 hours now .  I'm still on hold waiting a reply from scepti  .

Pythagoras I'm not asking you to concede . Let's just let Sceptimatic have a bit more time.

Dont get your hopes too high about sceptis reply. he might just start asking pointless questions about charts and weather or not you are a pilot or a navigator. eventually derrailing the subject.

First of all, why you FEs ignored my last post about North Korea being part of the conspirancy with the USA and the rest of the world while publicly hating USA?

And if a ship navigates without computers, it must uses a map and the stars, where the visible stars can help you determine your position, since some stars are visible from some parts of the planet because the earth is round... And a map which surely uses some projection because you can't represent a 3D object surface on a 2D object without some sort of distortion... Also, how is that anybody has seen the edge of the earth? Weird, since we have planes, somebody could just easily grab a plane and try to find it, but nobody has, because magically they turn around when they are near to it.

I still don;t get how you think that all of the agencies depend on the earth being round. Which agencies?
Or do you mean, all agencies go about their business accepting that the world is round and just go about it in normal order because realistically they have no clue.

I actually made an entire thread about this, and you even replied to it, but never followed up.

Consider the following points:

1) All commercial (and otherwise) flight around the world is based on a round earth.  Thus, the distances and angles between things that people use to navigate would match how you would measure them on a sphere.  Otherwise, flights would end up in the wrong places pretty much all the time.

2) It is impossible to lay the surface of a sphere flat without moving things around and shrinking/expanding (distorting) things; in other words, changing those distances and directions.  How do I know?  Because I can draw a triangle with three 90º angles on a ball, but I can't on a flat piece of paper without severely distorting it.  You can draw an infinite number of such "impossible" triangles on a sphere.

Therefore, since flights depend on the earth being round to successfully navigate and not end up off-course, the earth must mimic the shape of a sphere.  It is impossible to mimic the shape of a sphere with a flat earth.  Therefore, the earth is not flat, and all flat earth maps are wrong.

This is a long thread, so this might have been addressed before, but how many photoshoppers/graphic designers/movie producers must also be on the payroll? With the amount of images avaliable via google, and movies about astronaughts there must be hundreds of thousands of people working full time to photoshop evidence. There must be hundreds of green screen movie studios underground somewhere with actors working around the clock, and post production going on at the same time. The scope of all of this would dwarf hollywood, because the special effects would have to be believeable, not crappy Twilight-level special effects.

Drawing a triangle with 90 degree angles on a ball is not doing it on earth for starters and until one is done, it's pointless.
I see a few of you keep going on about navigating using a flat map that's derived from a globe map lol..what's all this about?

The only thing I use such a triangle to demonstrate is that the surface of a ball (not the earth; just a ball) cannot be made flat without distorting things.  That's all.  It doesn't matter if you can draw it on the earth or not.  Read what I wrote very carefully.  If we actually could draw it on earth, that would be fantastic, but still more or less irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

Assume the earth is flat.  The point is that airlines aren't expecting this sort of distortion if the earth is flat but they are using a round earth to navigate.  Thus, the path they expect to be straight is in reality curved (we use the triangles to prove this!), but they don't know that, so they don't bother flying in a curved path.  Thus, they end up in the wrong place.  Except they don't, because they're still in business.  So either they know the earth is flat and just pretend it's round (they know they have to fly their route curved, or at a different angle; part of the conspiracy), or the earth is actually round.  Take your pick.

Note: we're not talking about curved like a ball is curved.  We're talking about curved like drawing a circle on a ball, as opposed to a straight line on a ball, like the equator.

Using the most common FE model map with the north pole at the center, the whole country of Australia is wildly distorted compared to a RE map. I would say that the entire population of Australia and anyone who has ever traveled there must be a part of the conspiracy.

Using the most common FE model map with the north pole at the center, the whole country of Australia is wildly distorted compared to a RE map. I would say that the entire population of Australia and anyone who has ever traveled there must be a part of the conspiracy.

It's true as an Australian currently living in Brisbane the first time i picked up a crayon i had to sign onto the government payroll stating that if i ever travelled North i had to do so at 40km below the speed limit and if i was travelling west i had to do 250km the whole way to make sure i arrived at the times i should have.

O wait that never happened. Also i can tell you that it takes roughly the same time to go from Melbourne to Weipa as it does to go from Melboure to Perth. Despite the fact that on a FE map Perth is twice as far away from Melbourne as Weipa.

Do you guys never get sick of this? I've been here for a few weeks and it already seems like groundhog day...

First of all, why you FEs ignored my last post about North Korea being part of the conspirancy with the USA and the rest of the world while publicly hating USA?

We didn't:

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

Those 'facts' are western propaganda. Not North Korean propaganda. Make him look crazy and then insist an expensive war must take place.

As for injecting his staff with painkillers, he probably feared assassination by lethal injection. Making them take a shot from the same bottle seems pretty sensible to me.

All of that is Western made up rubbish. Not North Korean.

Those 'facts' are western propaganda. Not North Korean propaganda. Make him look crazy and then insist an expensive war must take place.

As for injecting his staff with painkillers, he probably feared assassination by lethal injection. Making them take a shot from the same bottle seems pretty sensible to me.

All of that is Western made up rubbish. Not North Korean.

I assume that is your very own reasonable assumption and not something you can prove?  I am not disagreeing with you, I just want to make sure.

Drawing a triangle with 90 degree angles on a ball is not doing it on earth for starters and until one is done, it's pointless.
I see a few of you keep going on about navigating using a flat map that's derived from a globe map lol..what's all this about?

thats just lack of education on your part.  so what would happen on a round earth if someone needed a map?  everyone would be carrying a globe around?  lol.  you just dont know enough math to know how to project coordinates.  its like a university professor explaining high school math to a second grader. 

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 15, 2013, 09:03:46 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 14, 2013, 02:29:54 PM

Drawing a triangle with 90 degree angles on a ball is not doing it on earth for starters and until one is done, it's pointless.
I see a few of you keep going on about navigating using a flat map that's derived from a globe map lol..what's all this about?

thats just lack of education on your part.  so what would happen on a round earth if someone needed a map?  everyone would be carrying a globe around?  lol.  you just dont know enough math to know how to project coordinates.  its like a university professor explaining high school math to a second grader.

You aren't teaching me anything.

Yeah I think most would have trouble with that task.

I do agree with him scepti, you're incredibly stubborn and possibly somewhat slow as well. Neither of those would matter if you weren't also very arrogant. It's a toxic combination, and I doubt you'll really learn anything in your life that, in hindsight, won't have been completely useless or even detrimental to your own growth as a person. I do not envy you.

Quote from: Thork on April 15, 2013, 08:58:54 AM

Those 'facts' are western propaganda. Not North Korean propaganda. Make him look crazy and then insist an expensive war must take place.

As for injecting his staff with painkillers, he probably feared assassination by lethal injection. Making them take a shot from the same bottle seems pretty sensible to me.

All of that is Western made up rubbish. Not North Korean.

I assume that is your very own reasonable assumption and not something you can prove?  I am not disagreeing with you, I just want to make sure.

Do you think North Korean people are as stupid as Reuters says they are? Do you think they believe Kim Jong-Il was able to play a round of golf in 38 shots? That the mountains cried when he died?
It is the American public that is stupid as they are the ones swallowing the stupid lies about how stupid North Koreans must be. And it will be those same stupid Americans that will end up paying for a never ending war in North Korea.

Some light reading for you.
https://iwpchi.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/us-nato-un-hands-off-north-korea-us-propaganda-barrage-continues-as-china-stabs-n-korea-in-back/

Thork-I understand that you may not know when I am being sincere, but I actually think it is reasonable to assume the Americans (or NATO or something) do engage in propaganda like you describe. As with most things, the truth is somewhere in between I imagine. I have a friend planning a trip to North Korea, so he will be able to tell me what the state propaganda is like. Will the Americans pay as dearly as the Koreans if war breaks out?  No way. In the Vietnam War, 40,000 Americans died to approximately 1,000,000 Vietnamese. If China decides to cast out North Korea, it gets worse for them.

Thork-I understand that you may not know when I am being sincere, but I actually think it is reasonable to assume the Americans (or NATO or something) do engage in propaganda like you describe. As with most things, the truth is somewhere in between I imagine. I have a friend planning a trip to North Korea, so he will be able to tell me what the state propaganda is like. Will the Americans pay as dearly as the Koreans if war breaks out?  No way. In the Vietnam War, 40,000 Americans died to approximately 1,000,000 Vietnamese. If China decides to cast out North Korea, it gets worse for them.

North Korea aren't the ones practising B52 strikes on American mainland targets. North Korea isn't the deranged warmonger in this situation. For deranged warmongers, you need to look a little closer to home. The US is the aggressor. Your press is lying to you.

I never said anyone is the aggressor. My media is Canadian, so North Korea is not quite the hot topic here.

North Korea aren't the ones practising B52 strikes on American mainland targets. North Korea isn't the deranged warmonger in this situation. For deranged warmongers, you need to look a little closer to home. The US is the aggressor. Your press is lying to you.

I think that's pretty much common knowledge isn't it? Or at least that North Korea is the less deranged warmonger. But yeah I'm not in the states so I dunno how the attitude is there..

I never said anyone is the aggressor. My media is Canadian, so North Korea is not quite the hot topic here.

A Canadian? Canadians should declare their interests and not hide amongst Americans on the internet!

My interest is remaining hidden amongst Americans on the internet.

So.....I can't tell if you guys are serious or not

Do you guys never get sick of this? I've been here for a few weeks and it already seems like groundhog day...

Right...

For some reason we are conditioned to believe that most other countries are insignificant and below us in, intelligence.
It's not entirely our fault that we think this way, because we are conditioned this way. And people think they are not brainwashed.

That's a very astute observation scepti, and I agree.

Garmin, Magellan, etc. and every other GPS manufacturer.

UEC, Topfield, Humax, Pace, and any other set top decoder manufacturer,
as well as all manufacturers of LNBs, which must really just be digital compasses that only allow TV reception when pointed
the right direction in the sky.

Oh, airlines are definitely in on it. Flying people shorter distances than they think they are going and paying for is a real money spinner. Most air travel is in the Northern hemiplane and my goodness its lucrative.

If Thork is to be trusted, we get to add all significant commercial airlines to our list, as apparently they're in on it too.

Quote from: Thork on April 14, 2013, 06:02:55 PM

Oh, airlines are definitely in on it. Flying people shorter distances than they think they are going and paying for is a real money spinner. Most air travel is in the Northern hemiplane and my goodness its lucrative.

If Thork is to be trusted, we get to add all significant commercial airlines to our list, as apparently they're in on it too.

In fact, we get to add all significant commercial airlines to the list of stupid religious nuts who fly people in new versions of the Concorde for the price of a regular commercial non-supersonic flight. only to make people believe the Earth is round.

I registered an account on this site just so I could respond to this thread.  I believe in a RE and I think you should too. 

Before I get into that though, I'd like to say that I've read every single post in this thread, and the flame war really needs to stop, especially from my fellow RE believers.  If you want to even plant the tiniest seed of doubt in the mind of someone who believes something different from your belief, it has to be done with mutual respect otherwise the person will become defensive and angry.  Come on folks, no need to disrespect one another.

***

FE believers, I ask you to gaze upon this extraordinary video and to watch it in its entirety before you respond:
http://www.wimp.com/stunningearth/
(The 2nd video I posted below might be better photographic evidence to plant a seed of doubt in a FEer, but this one is far more beautiful)

I have a lot of experience with Hollywood visual effects (hereafter referred to as VFX) and the newest, most powerful programs available to create such stunning imagery, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that the above footage has only been color corrected and appropriately white balanced.  There is far too much detail in the clouds and the shadows and the landscape for any government employee on any government salary to create from scratch.  VFX artists don't get paid much in even the most successful movies and productions. 

But I'm not here to debate the authenticity of this video! 

Because even if you are right, and this is indeed a fake video, I sincerely and respectfully ask, which is a more humble worldview?  That our world is but a microcosm, a tiny cog in a great galactic machine that is greater than ourselves and greater than what we could ever know,

or that we are the center of the universe, that the sun and all other stars and planets rotate around us, that we are so special that of all the celestial objects in the universe, it is us who are the stationary ones. 

Which view is the most beautiful, and which view does society benefit from the most?  Which view is the more arrogant one, or self-interested one?

***

Even if I go out on a (very large) limb and assume that the evidence presented in this thread by Tom and Sceptic (who you guys really shouldn't be picking on so much) for a Flat Earth and a corresponding massive international conspiracy is indeed solid evidence, you have to be willing to admit that the evidence to the contrary, a round Earth, is vastly overwhelming, and outnumbering your evience too. 

I respect you FEers for sticking to such a belief despite the overwhelming evidence against you.  Despite this respect, I cannot help myself but ask some questions related to this conspiracy and the FE theory in general, and I sincerely hope you do not take offense to my questions.  These are not hypothetical; I admit ignorance in regards to this community.

• How many of you are scientists or engineers?
• Do you know how a cell phone works and how the proper functionality of a cell phone tower depends on the curvature of a round earth?
• Here is a video of a camera attached to a weather balloon floating high enough into the atmosphere to see the curvature of the Earth.  Are these good people part of the conspiracy?  http://www.wimp.com/weatherballoon/ (NOTE: the camera lens is a fisheye lens, but do not take ye eyes off le video, at 4:30 it gets far up enough (90,000 ft) so that the curvature of the lens does not distort the curvature of the earth)
• Last Question: What exactly is a nebula, or a galaxy then if we are not part of one, and if we are, how come we haven't found any other flat planets?  Why must you assume that our planet is different than all of the known universe, rather than assume that the curvature of the earth isn't immediately apparent to our weak human eyes?

I would appreciate a real response from an FEer.  Again, I hope I haven't offended anyone, I have never met someone who believes in a flat earth.  I might come up with more questions but I'm kind of getting sick of typing 

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
-Neil deGrasse Tyson

lol ironically, my captcha is "queftion dAgences"