How many organizations are lying? (or: it's time to update the wiki)

Except the calculation to the distance of the sun on a FE varies significantly if you use angles other than 90 degrees or 45 degrees and can be disqualified on that simple easily verifiable basis.

Not only have I explicitly explained why bouyant forces could not maintain such an object above 55km altitude, I also explained precisely why 1.3 million newtons of force would be encountered and included the appropriate density in my calculations. Not only did you completely fail to read what I wrote, you have the nerve to tell me I am talking nonsense.

You said the 1.3 million newtons of force was a result of "aerodynamic heating loads". According to Wikipedia We read that aerodynamic heating is the "heating of a solid body produced by the passage of fluid (such as air) over a body such as a meteor, missile, or airplane."

Now, since the ISS is at near-space, unlike the meteors, missiles, or airplanes when those things heat up significantly, I'm afraid your assumptions that the ISS would encounter similar extreme aerodynamic heating is bunk. You need to account for the environment in which is operates.

I will ignore for the sake of your question that I already exhaustively explained why your floating dirigible cannot function at higher altitudes, and I will assume that by "near space" you mean the rarefied regime of the atmosphere (which, incidentally, also means that nothing can float there). This is the region where the ISS operates.

Hydrogen is lighter-than-air, meaning that it rises until it is above the atmosphere. If you seal off a fish tank and pour in hydrogen it will rise and accumulate at the top of the tank, displacing all air at the top. You seem to believe that high altitude balloons which reach the edge of space are still in significant atmosphere. They are not. The atmosphere they are in is incredibly thin, the hydrogen/helium having risen above the atmosphere, essentially no longer within it, any atmosphere present being sparse and dispersed.

Except the calculation to the distance of the sun on a FE varies significantly if you use angles other than 90 degrees or 45 degrees and can be disqualified on that simple easily verifiable basis.

Please elaborate. Who experienced this?

No one has ever built an airship capable of flight in a near space environment at hypersonic speeds. The only people who think it's even possible propose a design that would be 6000 feet (!) in length. That's over a mile, about 1800m long. Why? "In order to utilize the few molecules of gas at extreme altitudes, this craft is big."

How big is the ISS? Hint: not 1800m long. Not even close. It's about 109m by 73m.

Now the project I linked to above is a bit crazy if you ask me; it has to be crazy for the concept of a near-space dirigible to even work in terms of the physics involved. And their idea hinges on the ability to reach orbital velocity. I guess they're not zany enough to consider the Earth is flat.

If the project does prove functional and they do send an airship to high orbit, I guess that would only make them become part of the Conspiracy. 

No one has ever built an airship capable of flight in a near space environment at hypersonic speeds. The only people who think it's even possible propose a design that would be 6000 feet (!) in length. That's over a mile, about 1800m long. Why? "In order to utilize the few
molecules of gas at extreme altitudes, this craft is big."

How big is the ISS? Hint: not 1800m long. Not even close. It's about 109m by 73m.

Now the project I linked to above is a bit crazy if you ask me; it has to be crazy for the concept of a near-space dirigible to even work in terms of the physics involved. And their idea hinges on the ability to reach orbital velocity. I guess they're not zany enough to consider the Earth is flat.

It needs to be that huge because it's driven by huge propellers able to capture the imperceptible atmosphere there. I did not suggest propellers an an acceleration mechanism for the ISS.

I doubt propellers will be of much use in a near-space environment. They will likely have to fly at slightly lower altitudes to see any effect.

If the project does prove functional and they do send an airship to high orbit, I guess that would only make them become part of the Conspiracy. 

Airships cannot achieve orbit, despite what any riff-raff aerospace company claims.

Airships cannot be sent into orbit.

I didn't say that I think sending an airship into orbit is possible; I even said I think their project is a bit crazy. You either have reading comprehension problems, or you like responding to issues people haven't raised. Personally I seriously doubt airships can be sent to orbit, but not because I believe the Earth is flat 

No lighter than air aircraft has went higher than 53km, and that was merely a 40kg balloon. The record altitude for a dirigible is less than 12km. I doubt a dirigible could ever reach an altitude much higher than the current record for lighter than air aircraft. And like Jason_85 indicated, it would essentially have to be made only of hydrogen to do it.

However the people behind the project do certainly think that sending an airship to orbit is possible. So what I said is that if the project somehow works and they do send an airship to high orbit, it would mean they would become part of the Conspiracy. Nothing more, nothing less.

It needs to be that huge because it's driven by huge propellers. I did not suggest propellers an an acceleration mechanism.

Either you haven't even looked at the link I posted, or it's a further indication that you have poor reading comprehension skills. It only mentions propellers in the case of the first part of the project, which is supposed to be an atmospheric airship. The orbital airship that I was referring to, the one which is supposed to be 6000 feet long, is stated to have "electric propulsion"; the pdf document then goes on to mention a flight test for an ion engine intended for that same orbital airship.

Well good, that reinforces the idea that ion engines for high altitude dirigibles is possible.

Even if multiple simultaneous observations of the ISS were carried out to triangulate its altitude and speed, which they haven't, the observers would still need to assume a Round Earth or a Flat Earth for their triangulation calculations to determine its altitude, as on a RE the observers will be standing at different angles in relation to each other and on an FE the observers are standing on the same plane. The baselines for the trangles are different depending on the shape of the earth we assume.

It's part of the reason why the position of the sun can be calculated to both 93 million miles away or a few thousand miles away depending on the shape of the earth we calculate under.

This is incorrect. Viewers only need to be a few kilometres apart to measure differences in elevation of the ISS, so curvature of the earth would result in an error in distance of no more than a hundred metres or so.

You said the 1.3 million newtons of force was a result of "aerodynamic heating loads". According to Wikipedia We read that aerodynamic heating is the "heating of a solid body produced by the passage of fluid (such as air) over a body such as a meteor, missile, or airplane."

I said no such thing. Read it again.

Now, since the ISS is at near-space, unlike the meteors, missiles, or airplanes when those things heat up significantly, I'm afraid your assumptions that the ISS would encounter similar extreme aerodynamic heating is bunk. You need to account for the environment in which is operates.

Your inability to read my original post borders on the demented.

Hydrogen is lighter-than-air, meaning that it rises until it is above the atmosphere. If you seal off a fish tank and pour in hydrogen it will rise and accumulate at the top of the tank, displacing all air at the top. You seem to believe that high altitude balloons which reach the edge of space are still in significant atmosphere. They are not. The atmosphere they are in is incredibly thin, the hydrogen/helium having risen above the atmosphere, essentially no longer within it, any atmosphere present being sparse and dispersed.

Again, I've covered this in my post. The atmosphere is not a fish tank for many reasons, not the least of which that the density of the atmosphere changes. I've accounted for this. Read what I wrote.

I can see now how you've managed to remain a believer for this long; you're completely impervious.

Well good, that reinforces the idea that ion engines for high altitude dirigibles is possible.

lol

Well good, that reinforces the idea that ion engines for high altitude dirigibles is possible.

First you describe them as a "riff-raff aerospace company" and dismiss their claims;  then you use them to "reinforce" your idea. So not only do you display appalling reading comprehension skills, you also have trouble maintaining a consistent stance. 

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

Quote from: lmb32 on April 12, 2013, 03:25:47 PM

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

This proves what exactly?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 12, 2013, 07:21:46 PM

Quote from: lmb32 on April 12, 2013, 03:25:47 PM

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

This proves what exactly?

Maybe that proves how irrelevant an FEer can be

Quote from: Cartesian on April 13, 2013, 05:13:21 AM

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 04:57:02 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 12, 2013, 07:21:46 PM

Quote from: lmb32 on April 12, 2013, 03:25:47 PM

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

This proves what exactly?

Maybe that proves how irrelevant an FEer can be

Where do you think you are going to get with silly little digs?
You came to this site to do what? did you come here to tell the FE believers how silly they are or did you come to try and find out where you have been going wrong in what you have been taught?

Remember...you came here and appear to be putting up topics asking questions, so if it's irrelevant, what are you doing here?

Irrelevance is what this site is all about.  go back 5 posts IMB is talking about NK Satellites and Bishop posts some fun facts site.  Where is the relevance there?

Where do you think you are going to get with silly little digs?
You came to this site to do what? did you come here to tell the FE believers how silly they are or did you come to try and find out where you have been going wrong in what you have been taught?

Remember...you came here and appear to be putting up topics asking questions, so if it's irrelevant, what are you doing here?

I came here to see if you were just ironic hipsters trying to drive traffic with a gimmick like the Pastafarians in an attempt to spark creative thought (and drive traffic), or if you were a group of Bat-shit crazy believers who have no grasp of reality.

It's too bad you're not ironic hipsters....

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 05:48:32 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 13, 2013, 05:38:55 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on April 13, 2013, 05:13:21 AM

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 04:57:02 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 12, 2013, 07:21:46 PM

Quote from: lmb32 on April 12, 2013, 03:25:47 PM

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

This proves what exactly?

Maybe that proves how irrelevant an FEer can be

Where do you think you are going to get with silly little digs?
You came to this site to do what? did you come here to tell the FE believers how silly they are or did you come to try and find out where you have been going wrong in what you have been taught?

Remember...you came here and appear to be putting up topics asking questions, so if it's irrelevant, what are you doing here?

Irrelevance is what this site is all about.  go back 5 posts IMB is talking about NK Satellites and Bishop posts some fun facts site.  Where is the relevance there?

Are you deciding who can post what?
Tom Bishop posted about NK and if you look at the topic title, it might give you a clue are the relevance.

So by posting ANYTHING about NK is relevant?

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 06:03:39 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 13, 2013, 05:55:42 AM

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 05:48:32 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 13, 2013, 05:38:55 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on April 13, 2013, 05:13:21 AM

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 04:57:02 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 12, 2013, 07:21:46 PM

Quote from: lmb32 on April 12, 2013, 03:25:47 PM

Let's keep going.

As we all know North Korea dislikes USA, and they recently launched a satellite, so, are they also part of the conspiracy and have a secret arrangement with USA to not destroy the conspiracy?

Here are some more facts from North Korea.

This proves what exactly?

Maybe that proves how irrelevant an FEer can be

Where do you think you are going to get with silly little digs?
You came to this site to do what? did you come here to tell the FE believers how silly they are or did you come to try and find out where you have been going wrong in what you have been taught?

Remember...you came here and appear to be putting up topics asking questions, so if it's irrelevant, what are you doing here?

Irrelevance is what this site is all about.  go back 5 posts IMB is talking about NK Satellites and Bishop posts some fun facts site.  Where is the relevance there?

Are you deciding who can post what?
Tom Bishop posted about NK and if you look at the topic title, it might give you a clue are the relevance.

So by posting ANYTHING about NK is relevant?

It is when the topic is about organisations,lying.

riiiiight...lol.  prime example of avoiding the question.  So lets see...a country claims to put up a satellite and your angle is that is they made up some crap in the past then they didn't put up a satellite...got it thanks.

That's what you get for feeding on any propaganda.

According to this site the entire world and the entire internet is propaganda EXCEPT Flat Earth Society.  Or just the stuff that doesn't jive with your "theories".  ok this is getting nowhere

Quote from: koolkat67 on April 13, 2013, 06:24:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 13, 2013, 06:22:03 AM

That's what you get for feeding on any propaganda.

According to this site the entire world and the entire internet is propaganda EXCEPT Flat Earth Society.  Or just the stuff that doesn't jive with your "theories".  ok this is getting nowhere

so it's pointless in picking out a whole unit as being this and that.

you didn't just write that, did you?  as in all countries and organisations being in on the round earth conspiracy?  this is rich.

I just trust more the people living in the real world whose daily jobs depend on the earth being round never finding anything wrong with it. rather than a bunch of people deciding from their chairs that the earth is flat.

Quote from: robertotrevor on April 13, 2013, 07:17:40 AM

I just trust more the people living in the real world whose daily jobs depend on the earth being round never finding anything wrong with it. rather than a bunch of people deciding from their chairs that the earth is flat.

Which peoples jobs "depend" on the earth being round?

For example jobs depending on maps or people working in any of the agencies you consider a hoax.

Quote from: robertotrevor on April 13, 2013, 08:14:44 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 13, 2013, 07:55:42 AM

Quote from: robertotrevor on April 13, 2013, 07:17:40 AM

I just trust more the people living in the real world whose daily jobs depend on the earth being round never finding anything wrong with it. rather than a bunch of people deciding from their chairs that the earth is flat.

Which peoples jobs "depend" on the earth being round?

For example jobs depending on maps or people working in any of the agencies you consider a hoax.

Explain Berty?

Well... all of the maps and large distance calculations. therefore travel times calculations. are made assuming the earth is round. And all of the agencies you consider a hoax is because they depend on the earth being round.

Ok. you still dont get it. Believe it or not its not funny explaining things to you.

skeptic how does a airline plan flight paths if it does not know the earth is flat and instead thinks its round?

no because as has been shown on many occasions you need to go in different directions and distances on a flat earth map than a round earth one. their for a airline would need to use a flat earth map to navigate on a flat earth hence they would need to know the earth is flat. of course its not and they use real world maps.

And what about pilots and planes that don't use computers?

Such as planes and pilots that don't use computers. Ships and captains that do not use computers.

Quote from: Pythagoras on April 13, 2013, 09:58:23 AM

Such as planes and pilots that don't use computers. Ships and captains that do not use computers.

But they use a flat map right?

No they use a map and charts based on the earth bieng round.

yes i understand that but what im getting at is all pilots and navigators can navigate using charts and up until the wide spread use of computers traveled around the world using nothing but paper charts. charts that are based on the world being round.