Priority of Perception

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Priority of Perception
« on: August 21, 2012, 12:08:49 PM »
I have a question...

In the FAQ, it says that you believe the earth is flat because it looks that way up close.  Okay, fair enough.

When I look off into the horizon at sunset or sunrise, and I see the sun straight ahead, it looks to me like I'm looking at the sun while half of it is on the other side of the Earth.

My contention is that the earth looks flat because you're so close to such a large mass, it only looks flat. 

Your contention is that when I look at the sun, my field of vision is bending upwards, so I'm actually looking at the sun above me while it appears to be ahead of me.

Let's pretend like your contention makes as much sense as mine for a second.  If they were, what makes your perception right and my perception wrong?  If the perception that the sun is in front of me is wrong, how can you conclude that the earth is flat, in the face of all the evidence otherwise, that the earth is flat because "it appears to be up close?"
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 12:10:30 PM by KristaGurl »
...does anyone find it funny that the Flat Earth model is actually round?

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 04:58:03 PM »
The fact the earth looks flat is not the only evidence for a flat earth. It is because of all the evidence for FET and the poor, absurd claims by RET that people believe in FET.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 05:16:48 PM »
FYI, Krista, Mr Pseudonym is trolling.  He often makes exaggerated claims about FET and then disappears from a thread when any real debate starts.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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hoppy

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2012, 06:09:19 PM »
Krista, read Earth Not a Globe. The book has numerous experiments that demonstrate the fact , multiple times that any expanse of water tested is level. If the water level is flat for say 2 or 20 miles, then RET is incorrect.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2012, 07:14:00 PM »
How that book is talked about so highly is beyond me. Bunch of crazy's for reading and actually believing that thing. Kind of like the bible.

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gotham

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2012, 08:01:08 PM »
Please remember that Dr. Rowbotham successfully defended his claims in person many times in front of skeptics. 

Nowadays, science books are published all the time for use in schools that promote unproven RE claims.  They are read and believed without disputing the claims.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 08:10:10 PM by gotham »

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2012, 08:33:35 PM »
Please remember that Dr. Rowbotham successfully defended his claims in person many times in front of skeptics. 

Except that this didn't happen.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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The Knowledge

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2012, 09:04:57 PM »
FYI, Krista, Mr Pseudonym is trolling.  He often makes exaggerated claims about FET and then disappears from a thread when any real debate starts.

I think you're confusing him with Tom Bishop...  ::)
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2012, 09:09:08 PM »
Please remember that Dr. Rowbotham successfully defended his claims in person many times in front of skeptics. 

Nowadays, science books are published all the time for use in schools that promote unproven RE claims.  They are read and believed without disputing the claims.

And I successfully navigated a flying pink unicorn across the cosmos and found the edge of space. We are a snow globe for giant creatures.

I would believe my claim before I believe Rowbotham "A.K.A laughedatbyallofscience" successfully defended his claims.

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markjo

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 05:30:50 AM »
Please remember that Dr. Rowbotham successfully defended his claims in person many times in front of skeptics. 

Defending one's claims is not the same as proving one's claims.  If Rowbotham would have been able to successfully prove his claims to the skeptics, then FET would be the mainstream science right now and RET would be the fringe.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Megaman

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 04:08:10 PM »
Please remember that Dr. Rowbotham successfully defended his claims in person many times in front of skeptics. 

Nowadays, science books are published all the time for use in schools that promote unproven RE claims.  They are read and believed without disputing the claims.

Krista, read Earth Not a Globe. The book has numerous experiments that demonstrate the fact , multiple times that any expanse of water tested is level. If the water level is flat for say 2 or 20 miles, then RET is incorrect.

hoppy, gotham, re-read chapter 8 in Earth Not a Globe.

When you're done, read the first post in this thread.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55463.0.html#.UDVlb0T5JFA

Now, please tell me again how cognizant Rowbotham is.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 06:56:01 PM by Megaman »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 06:56:37 AM »
Please remember that Dr. Rowbotham successfully defended his claims in person many times in front of skeptics. 

Except that this didn't happen.

Quote from: Greenwich Free Press, May 19th, 1862
"'PARALLAX' AT THE LECTURE HALL.--This talented lecturer is again in Greenwich [University], rivetting the attention of his audiences, and compelling them to submit to the facts which he brings before them--we say submit, for this they do; it seems impossible for any one to battle with him, so powerful are the weapons he uses. Mathematicians argue with him at the conclusion of his lectures, but it would seem as though they held their weapons by the blade and fought with the handle, for sure enough they put the handle straight into the lecturer's hand, to their own utter discomfiture and chagrin. It remains yet to be seen whether any of our Royal Astronomers will have courage enough to meet him in discussion, or whether they will quietly allow him to give the death-blow to the Newtonian theory, and make converts of our townspeople to his own Zetetic philosophy. If 'Parallax' be wrong, for Heaven's sake let some of our Greenwich stars twinkle at the Hall, and dazzle, confound, or eclipse altogether this wandering one, who is turning men, all over England, out of the Newtonian path. 'Parallax' is making his hearers disgusted with the Newtonian and every other theory, and turning them to a consideration of facts and first principles, from which they know not how to escape. Again we beg and trust that some of our Royal Observatory gentlemen will try to save us, and prevent anything like a Zetetic epidemic prevailing amongst us."--Greenwich Free Press, May 19th, 1862.

Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 07:43:49 AM »
Witchcraft is the likely explanation for Rowbotham's alledged success in the lecture hall. 


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ThinkingMan

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 08:22:22 AM »
I have a question...

In the FAQ, it says that you believe the earth is flat because it looks that way up close.  Okay, fair enough.

When I look off into the horizon at sunset or sunrise, and I see the sun straight ahead, it looks to me like I'm looking at the sun while half of it is on the other side of the Earth.

My contention is that the earth looks flat because you're so close to such a large mass, it only looks flat. 

Your contention is that when I look at the sun, my field of vision is bending upwards, so I'm actually looking at the sun above me while it appears to be ahead of me.

Let's pretend like your contention makes as much sense as mine for a second.  If they were, what makes your perception right and my perception wrong?  If the perception that the sun is in front of me is wrong, how can you conclude that the earth is flat, in the face of all the evidence otherwise, that the earth is flat because "it appears to be up close?"

I don't know how much you know about physics, but the FET "light bending makes the sun appear lower" is actually quite wrong. We had a very long discussion on this in another thread maybe 2 weeks ago. It was shown, through a series of mathematics and common sense (that Tom Bishop just couldn't seem to grasp) that for light to bend "upwards" while entering the atmosphere, it would actually have to move faster when entering the thicker medium. This does not happen.

What really happens is that the light is "bent," or refracted, "downwards." This is because the light is moving slower when it enters the thicker medium.

This thread was derailed through a series of rather un-skilled troll-posts, I thought I'd give it a kick in the right direction.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 10:39:15 AM »

Quote from: Greenwich Free Press, May 19th, 1862
"'PARALLAX' AT THE LECTURE HALL.--This talented lecturer is again in Greenwich [University], rivetting the attention of his audiences, and compelling them to submit to the facts which he brings before them--we say submit, for this they do; it seems impossible for any one to battle with him, so powerful are the weapons he uses. Mathematicians argue with him at the conclusion of his lectures, but it would seem as though they held their weapons by the blade and fought with the handle, for sure enough they put the handle straight into the lecturer's hand, to their own utter discomfiture and chagrin. It remains yet to be seen whether any of our Royal Astronomers will have courage enough to meet him in discussion, or whether they will quietly allow him to give the death-blow to the Newtonian theory, and make converts of our townspeople to his own Zetetic philosophy. If 'Parallax' be wrong, for Heaven's sake let some of our Greenwich stars twinkle at the Hall, and dazzle, confound, or eclipse altogether this wandering one, who is turning men, all over England, out of the Newtonian path. 'Parallax' is making his hearers disgusted with the Newtonian and every other theory, and turning them to a consideration of facts and first principles, from which they know not how to escape. Again we beg and trust that some of our Royal Observatory gentlemen will try to save us, and prevent anything like a Zetetic epidemic prevailing amongst us."--Greenwich Free Press, May 19th, 1862.

Well luckily it would transpire that Robotham was not able to deliver a "death-blow to the Newtonian theory" after all. 

I cannot pretend that he must have not had some charisma, though.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2012, 08:38:02 PM »
The only content I can find from the Greenwich Free Press is that snippet of an article about Rowbotham.  It ran for ten whole years and we have no idea what sort of paper it was.

I'm having trouble believing scientists were shaking in their boots at the thought of having to face him, so it's likely that more than a little exaggeration was going on there.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 08:50:50 PM »
Oh wait, I did find the Greenwich Free Press quoted somewhere else, in Punch.  That would be funny if the entire article was satire and Rowbotham didn't realize it.  It certainly reads like satire.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2012, 09:06:19 PM »
It most likely is satire. We all know that scientists did not shake in their boots or whatever.

So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again. All through history FE has been destroyed and dismantled and finally to the point where only a handful of wackos truly believe in it.

So thank you for that article, Tom. You sure did prove that FE lost.

Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2012, 12:41:30 AM »
Quote from: R.A. Proctor in 'Marvels of Astronomy'
The "Blackburn Standard" and "Preston Guardian" (December 12 and 16, 1849) unite in stating that [Rowbotham] ran away from his second lecture at Burnley, having been rather too hard pressed, at the end of his first lecture, to explain why the large hull of a ship disappeared before the masts. The persons present and waiting for the second lecture assuaged their disappointment by concluding that the lecturer had slipped off the ice edge of his flat disc, and that he would not be seen again till he peeped up on the opposite side.'


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ThinkingMan

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2012, 05:50:13 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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burt

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2012, 05:55:03 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!

It was the abominable starman. we shold hunt him down..oh wait space travel isn't possible - nevermind.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2012, 05:57:10 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!

It was the abominable starman. we shold hunt him down..oh wait space travel isn't possible - nevermind.

What if he comes back? Then we'll be an even flatter pancake! Or perhaps he'll grind us to dust!
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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burt

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2012, 06:04:01 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!


It was the abominable starman. we shold hunt him down..oh wait space travel isn't possible - nevermind.

What if he comes back? Then we'll be an even flatter pancake! Or perhaps he'll grind us to dust!

He has other business, like checking his post and ironing, he told me so.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2012, 06:31:32 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!


It was the abominable starman. we shold hunt him down..oh wait space travel isn't possible - nevermind.

What if he comes back? Then we'll be an even flatter pancake! Or perhaps he'll grind us to dust!

He has other business, like checking his post and ironing, he told me so.

If this continues in this fashion, I may burst into uncontrollable laughter in the workplace. Then the Abominable Starman will get angry and crush us for sure.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

?

burt

  • 849
Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2012, 07:13:52 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!


It was the abominable starman. we shold hunt him down..oh wait space travel isn't possible - nevermind.

What if he comes back? Then we'll be an even flatter pancake! Or perhaps he'll grind us to dust!

He has other business, like checking his post and ironing, he told me so.

If this continues in this fashion, I may burst into uncontrollable laughter in the workplace. Then the Abominable Starman will get angry and crush us for sure.

is the abominable starman your boss...hey wait a minute: do you work for nasa?

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2012, 07:15:11 AM »
So the way I see it, FE got stomped hard back in the day. And has been stomped time and time again.

I FINALLY GET IT!!! That must be why it's flat! It got stomped and stomped until the globe was a disc. Imagine the immensity of the creature who must have done this!!!


It was the abominable starman. we shold hunt him down..oh wait space travel isn't possible - nevermind.

What if he comes back? Then we'll be an even flatter pancake! Or perhaps he'll grind us to dust!

He has other business, like checking his post and ironing, he told me so.

If this continues in this fashion, I may burst into uncontrollable laughter in the workplace. Then the Abominable Starman will get angry and crush us for sure.

is the abominable starman your boss...hey wait a minute: do you work for nasa?

I'm sorry... That's classified.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2012, 07:46:48 AM »
There sure is a lot of satire going on in these articles about Rowbotham's lectures: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za67.htm

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markjo

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2012, 07:58:46 AM »
There sure is a lot of satire going on in these articles about Rowbotham's lectures: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za67.htm

Quote
"In another part of to-day's Herald we publish a synopsis of the lecture on 'Zetetic Astronomy.' We have taken some pains to give the lecturer's definitions of his philosophy, and mode of illustrating it. But, inasmuch as the system of the lecturer differs in every point of view from our own study of astronomy, and from all previous teachings on the subject, there must be a great error on one side or the other. 'Parallax,' as a lecturer, as a sound logician, clear, lucid reasoner, calm and self-possessed, we have never seen surpassed."--Norfolk Herald, November 1st, 1856.

I suppose that it's much easier to prove your point when you have your own definitions of scientific concepts that differs from the accepted definitions (like vanishing point).
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2012, 08:09:36 AM »
There sure is a lot of satire going on in these articles about Rowbotham's lectures: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za67.htm

Sometimes you read a book which have nothing but praises on the back and front cover but which is completely rubbish, so your argument is meaningless.

On another note, the opinion of journalists 150 years ago...
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Priority of Perception
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2012, 09:12:34 AM »
There sure is a lot of satire going on in these articles about Rowbotham's lectures: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za67.htm

Sometimes you read a book which have nothing but praises on the back and front cover but which is completely rubbish, so your argument is meaningless.

On another note, the opinion of journalists 150 years ago...

Don't you know that modern day journalists and human beings are all stupid and cannot be trusted? No one is a smart as Tom, and Tom can see through all of the misconceptions we have about reality.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.